Free speech and political rhetoric

Am I tough enough a strong and stable leadership? Total rubber. Hell yes, I'm tough enough. Shut Frenge. Not another one. It's the politics show cast L love pcastsing, nonsis the politics of your podast ladies and gentlemen. Y S tenens back there. Y. So' Andrea at eleven And across from me is Andy twelves. Oh yeah How are you, Bud? I'm so well. I San thirteeninens Yeah But that's unlucky for some, isn't it Oh, I suppose Yeahah thirteen. Yeah You know, sad. You can't be getting on a plane a name like Sean thirirteen's? No eighteen is a lucky number in Hebrew I found that whereere in Hebrew? I found this out I was watching the We workk with Jared Leto and Anne Hathway in it and M me think Oh, bigger p sorry we've I grew up to do beg your pardon, that was very ruded. And yeah, eighteen's a lucky number in Hebrew. Okay. So that is a wewk ad No, they, obviously we work, it was Adam Newman, the guy that founded it was like a bit of a nutter. So they've done like a It's not a documentary. it's sort of a biopic about him, but it's a S Jared Leto is him him. Yeah. he's that guy got range I think he shouldn't have been the Joker because that's fucked to every other performance. This was a really good performance for nowoker prettyre good characters prior to the Joker as well. Like that's late stage let, I would say This was Post Joer leto Yeah, that's what I'm saying. is that like he had a lot of roles prior to Joker. Yeah U Oh what's the one I'm thinking of? U wakes up at a hospital,en You're not a little guy. Oh God, what is the name of the film? I should know it because it's someone I know his favorite fil um But no, he's a very good actor prior to being a superhero character. Yeah. It does kill a lot of careers, that, doesn't it? this was the S we work think was after the Joker. Yeah. So he's still got it in him. He's still got the dog U but it just doesn't come out to play with with God the dog in them How's your canon It was good, Andy, it was good. My good friend Jeremiah was who actually followers Long term listeners and followers of this podcast may remember a cameo from Jeremiah Two years ago? What we know? Yeah, about two years ago in the election night live stream It was on screen for all of thirty seconds on the IMDB, but did introduce himself. I think the The quote was, My name is Jeremiah is my name and then told us what his predictions for the election were. Be yeah, he was meant to be doing a DJ set on Friday actually met a Paul Jo head at the pub that the DJ set was in. But he Jeremiah forgot a crucial bit of kit that meant that he couldn't do his DJ set, which was a shame s. Then Saturday and Sunday I was kind of spending a cosplaying as an arrsenal fan which was quite fun.. It's nice to have that kind of level of community or about a place, you know Yeah. I've never Never followed Arsenal before my life Boss. I live in the catchment area that makes it feasible to support Arsenal Um I went to the parade on Sunday, it was just G great crack all around the town Eone was very, very jovial, having a great time And the sun was out crucially, which made it all the better ed go guys how. The son had got to town. It had herre at Sonny's it's sunny. I lost sunglasses this weekend. Whilst I was sailing on the good ship drink, I lost them somewhere in East London. The SS Gargle. Yes. Sadly enough. I think I actually lost them at the I went to the compomfass conference this weekend and I think I left them somewhere there because that was the last time they were spotted Ring up the venue and see if they've got them in the l. It's a rich mix on Battle Green Road in Shorwitich, like they will have millions of sunglasses. Yeah get my way toy a new car. Yeah. Yeah It's like an exchange kind of situation. What I mean? Yeah. had had an issue with my bike this morning. I can't remember if I've talked about this before. there'sue fucking your thing. I know we're recording early on in the day, but like it's okay that you watch you can you can say things that. Is thing that No. So the quick release on the bike I've had to replace twice. Yes. I think it's because the first replacement I got I installed it incorrectly. It isn't a quick release, that's the issue this time I think what the issue may have been is that I had tighten it had been on too tight and had led or just not tight enough. I think that's probably what the issue is. Those are two quite radically different things. slightly not tight enough. where with every revolution of the front wheel It was leading to a washer slightly rotating with the wheel and then catching itself on the on the The screw And so that over time has worn down this washer to the extent that now the front wheel wobbles when I cycle on it. Great. Yeah. So it's cycling this morning. U stopped the bike because it was initially making like a clicking noise for every revolution That's peculiar Sated down, I was like, right, well, it's wobbling a bit. I'll just tighten the quick release. Tighten the quick release. went on my way I got about five minutes further down the road and it was even wobblier at that point. So I said, rightight, I'm going to have to I'm gonna to have to dismount my steed now. putut her away. U and got myself a lion bike your bicle' stored somewhere ? Your bicycleles just stored somewhere between your house and here. Yeah, class. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, it's happened before with the like it was one time where the quick release just completely snapped off And so I had left this in more gays for the day and came back to it. And because it's a rickedy old thing, I don't think anyone has any interest in stealing it So if you're listening to this, if you're a bicycle thief and you're listening to this right now, stay away from my bike Stay away from it The front wheel is going to fall off if you jump on it. Just I'm only looking out for you U So I'm going to have to walk her home tonight, which I'm not looking forward to. Yeah Yeah, it's not good at all. But we move regardless, Andy. We do. do Do you know who else was moving? Go on. tellell me. Nicholas Turjon. Oh, she was, wasn't she Uh, you know The interview that she's done is has M very different reviews from very different people. tellell me what the rev the interview was inid of So for anyone who I familiar. I don't actually know what it was in Aid of. Basically her Still married, they're separated now aren't they? legal husband, but now her former partner It was also I think a strange is the word that they're using in the media, but I don't know if that's It feels mean to call him an estranged husband. I think that would mean that like that's a legal processn to become estranged. Yeah. It's like calling a woman over a certain age geriatric. I think they're just terms that are Well, you know, that's a thing that midwives use my bbe, I think a wee. mother Over thirty years old. I've never spoken to a midwife about mothers over thirty years old. But I go on anyway U herer former partner, the former chief executive of the SMP Peter Morrel. thirty five year older. thirty five year old. Wh you go? Geriatric mother has found himself in a bit of trouble about some spending that he's done with allegedly with party funds and some of the items that he bought were not just for himself, they were, apparently, for the home that he shared with Nicholas Durgeon And she didn't know anything about it. she didn't know what was going on apparently, even though she did sign off the accounts, but The internal audit did not raise any flags about it. So She's trying to distance herself from Pety Morale. and the allegations about his financial impropriety. It's the first time I've heard his surname pronounced like that. How'd you say it? Murl. M Ml. Murl Murrell, Peter Merll So that's two two. Let's call it that. think I think the consensus is morle. Okay, Peter Morle. There's no need to put any stank on that at all. He's trying to. She's trying to distance herself from that. Alleged impropriety. I He has admitted to embezling funds, hasn't he I don't know.'s you comment won't know this because Sean said this right before we went live. He said, You can talk about this without intent of court, kind't you? And I was like I don't I Before you said that, I thought yes, I could. I'm nar sure he's the embezzlement. Ben do you know it straight away He's admitted to embezzlement four hundred thousand pounds. ye. U some of the I think it's the daily record have database of all of the the spending. On some of it I'm on her side Okay, about that she didn't know Well so what she says to Coonsberurg yesterday is because both of them are on very high salaries. Yeah. you wouldn't know whether it's SMP money or the salary you're gaining is. My husband on a six figure salary got me an Hermes bag for Christmas notot that prising My husband said, Ohh, we've got some new salt and pepper shakers. I'm not going to assume they' five thousand pounds cost, you know, a new wine coaster, you knowre, assuming that's hundreds of quids. You know, I think there are like Some of it is though There is he's just problem Like a spending problem. A lot of it is just quite erratic compulsive spending. like bought thousand pounds worth of chopsticks. Yeah within three months. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That one was wild. It Ben has a list here. Does Ben have a list. So you've got the high and salt and pepper grinders from French glassmaker. Lallek Lk He's the you're the you're the Patwa speaker here, Ben you should two two thousand six hundred and eighteen pounds. GDA five the S andT five It's very good here two hundred and ninety seven pound for an Xbox, sorry, go ahead. On the listing here of that Ben's written up of all the games and stuff that he's bought his brackets. Morell has no children. There there's a seventy five pound men's slouch pouch onesie I'd imagine that's one of those big like hoodie throw things. Yeah P U what a guy? He bought quite few coffee machines. Yeah It's a very expensive coffee machine. Three thousand pounds worth of a coffee machine. I've got no gauge Oh and how expensive coffee machines are I've never bought one myself U'm I used to have a friend's old espresso machine that I didn'tay for because they were just moving out of the country I don't have it anymore, but it wouldn't have struck me as thousands of pounds worth of coffee machine happened to it What happened to it? Well, I just moved to house, I didn't have the room for any. fairly Yeah. Maybe it's quite dark there for me. It's no longer with us. The coffee machine isn't with us anymore. We're not going to We don't speak about him. Oh Sone's a hungry boy. It's very early in the morning. ' had Mh. The The kicker with a lot of these things is that there's a lot of photographs and videos of Nicola Sturgeon around the products in her house Yeah Again, I do believe her in the sense that If some new salt and pepper grinders appeared, I would not assume that they were three thousand pounds. So like Well one, as you said earlier on You wouldn't assume there were three thousand pounds, but you also wouldn't assume that L they were improperly bolved. There will be people Yeah, you know what I mean? And I think One of the prompts that Ben's put in this document, which is Very excellent. should read them all because actually I didn't read that We came on and that was really helpful actually as I read it live wouldould another leader held to the same kind of level of scrutiny as her. And I actually don't think it's about that. I think the fact that she lived with him and was in a relationship with him If it was Kammy Badnoock's husband who was also a treas Chief Executive Barty I'd done this. I think Kammy Badnoock would have been facing the same scrutiny. I don't think it's a Scottish thing or a ichol But it's also Kemmy Badnock isn't the she's not the prime mininister You know, Nicolas Sturgeon was the first minister and she was, you know, she was. leader of the country. You know, I was listening to LBC this morning. U And it was interesting hearing the range of views of it where There were Scottish listeners That sounded like they were SMP voters making the point that it's not Public funds, it's S andP party funds And so the idea that the argument was being made basically that the Imropriety isn't what the media is framing it as ye. It's a private companany's funds being used for personersal spending Yeah allegedly Um does That should be taken as an indication that it isn't as serious as it's being made out to be. Yeah. That's the view of particular caller on LDC But I mean, we're talking about like seventy five quQid here, forty quQid here, a couple of grand for coffee machine. the one that everyone has been talking about for the last year or so two years, I think, more than two years. has been the caravan. Yeah. caravan the mobile home Yeah Um Should we just stick in the clip here of Nicolas Sturgeon's defense of the mobile home Motor homeome was parked in your mother in law's drive for a long time And yet you say you knew nothing about it. Did you visit your mother in law's house then in that per? Less than a handful of times probably.ed past. No, no No, I didn't. And this is the thing. My mother in in law or my mother and father in law's house has a driveway in front of their house where we would park her car. And then we'd go into the house Wh the motor homeome was was round the s of the house, which is not immediately visible in the way that we went into the house. I think one of the problems is She's very much like Kissed Armour in the sense that I genuinely believe Kissed Armour is a massive arsenal fan and a massive football fan. But when he speaks about it, I just don't believe him. It doesn't sound like I actually probably believe her. Doid you see his pens on Friday? Oh, the form. Yeah. It was beautiful. Really good form. Yeah, nice positioning believe her the way she said it makes me not believe her? Like what are you doing? Why have you gone into the intricacies of your parents mother in law's drive. well, you know, they've actually got a very long drive and you know, we would park out the front, but then round the it's like, fuck no, don't go into detail. A hundred twenty thousand pounds worth of a mobile home though, you'd assume is big enough to be able to see if it's packed around the side of someone's house. Again, no it's like coffee machines. is one hundred twenty grand standard for a campervan I was talking to someone about this over the weekend. I don't know of anyone who has bought a new mobile home There's there's a big second hand market for mobile homes. Well it's just like, because think of where you use a mobile home It's usually on like a campsite near a beach Yeah, somewhere in the countryside. nine times out of ten, it's somebody who doesn't want their their plot anymore. It's just selling the van Cock I tr actually, I do know someone who would have bought a campervan. Most of the people that I know rent their camper vanans like they they'd have it for Th weeks in the summer or whatever. like I don't think you could pro rotter out to one hundred and twenty. you know who I'm going to ask is an expert my girfriend, who knows quite a lot about Uh hundred and twenty grand seems like a lot of money for a campervent I think it's There's there's an element of it as well that's kind of like ambush by cake, you know U It's I didn't inhale. I didn't inhale The camperan was around the side of the gap. It's all It all seems very silly You know, I do. wonder And I'm sure this is an extremely important case to the people of Scotland and the members of the Scottish National Party. I do seriously wonder if this is what the UK's preremier political shows big into view I Honestly, I don't think I care I think that embezlement and fraud or whatever happens a much larger scale across much more important organisations And we never see, Oh my Godd, it's killing We need to get this man ac cross on. Stas killing me You never see any particular scrutiny v those companies, especially in the private sector. because I suppose S special political parties are a special category companany. so they're not Third sector, technically I suppose. You never see any special scrutiny and I get what you're saying that like like she's had a harder go than Paula Vennels did over the whole of the post office scandal. Yeah Yeah, yeah, ye There's a well, I mean, I remember the post office scandal being quite big news, especially when they were all at the select committee. But they were held Pool of Venerals was held with at inquiry N by the press Do know what I mean? Like I think there are just like quite double standards that Nicolas Durgeon is seen as fair game because she's a quote unquote public figure. whereereas a lot of people in the private sector who would have far more influence over our daily lives, you know Cyber attacks have something like two hundred times over the last two years since the start of the Ukraine warar No one ever speaks about the lack of cstandards in the private sector and the data leaks that are being sent to foreign actors. Why' we pulling up CIO's and CDIO's in front of select committees in front of Laura K because our personal banking details are being sent across to foreign actors. We never talk about that because it's not sexy, it's not interesting, it's not a ha ha, silly woman didn't know microwave kitchen Yeahah. likeike I just I don't Well Yeah, because when you look at it in its barest form, it is the donors to the SMP that are pocket from this. , you know It's you're not talking about as I said about this LBC call earlier on, you're not talking about Scottish taxpayers' money. You're not talking about British taxpayers' money. You're talking about donations to a political party Um And yes, it's a salacious story. It's a It's a um It's a story that sends tongues wagging in the political journalist media sphere So it doesn't really have much bearing on the life of an English person Nor would I say a Scottish person be honest Unless you're donating to the SMP Oh yeah, but do you know what I mean? like the average Scottish voter doesn't care I think what's fascinating about it as well is that This story started in the lead up to the election in twenty twenty four And There was trick It was earlier than you l earlier. because I remember I remember being at the Redline pub And it was coach season. so it was either St of twenty twenty three or the end of twenty twenty three. Yeah Um, And someone said for some reason they've got a they've got a gazebo Oside or around and we're digging up the front garden and there was a salacious rumor going around at the time that there'd been a dead body found or something crazy. Yeah. It was either the start of or the end of twenty twenty three because I remember because I was wearing a coat. Yeah, Merle was arrested in april twenty twenty three. Yeah. it would have been Yeah, it was a lot earlier, yeah. Yeah. So I' ask the experts about cper vans. Apparently it's not really a caravan, it's a motor home and there's a very big difference. I'm told. Look is a caravan is a tow. a caravan, a campavan, aotor home. Apparently they're three quite distinct things And because a mot home has plumbing and heating and snazzy electrics. a Camperdan wouldn't and a caravan definitely doesn't and Yeah, apppparently, it's very expensive Yeah, it would be. Yeah. it would be. It's like a that was a conclusion. Ed. The American would call it an RV, I think a Mine would be But you know, a caravan is just a tollong on the back of a car. Yeah. And I think you can plug in the heating and electricity at a site. Yes. U Iucause you didn't know that. No I was a camper. I was never a caraban h anym. I see Um But no, so this has been going on for Three years at least. Yeah In that time, labour made big gains in twenty twenty four in Scotland. they've also managed in the locals to not put final dagger in the heart of the SMP In fact do very well in Scotland. That's a thoroughly interesting story for me. whereere you've got Annawar, the leader of the Scottish Labour Party. who went from effffectively he was in on the ground floor of Getamer was who, not even that It was, you know, your first ministry in waiting whil this was all kicking off twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three twenty twenty four general election. He was seen as o, he's going be The First mininister because you had Sturgeon going, then you had Homesy Yusf, rememember him And then he left quite quickly and then it was Jhn Twinney who seen as the quite boring managerial Almost caretaker until is it even fer on until They SP election, and then Stephen Flyn go to Hollyroood and Sven partarty and you know, etceta, etcetera And now you've got this weird situation where AnSO are try to knock over the Dominoes for W streeting two cs ago. West Street and got C feet pulled out And now NSOR is just looking like a twat because A called for the Prime Mister to go and no one else does and he didn't win and I think they actually reduce their seat count. though they increase their level with reform UK. and The Scottish Labour Party is thoroughly interesting because will he resign is the question. Like what is his mandate now Because in the Labouror Party you don't have leadership terms. It's not a four or five year term thing. it's just Until until Your elected body removes to you or you reside or you die. Yeah. And at what point Does he think, o, I'm actually going to stick around for another four years until the next Scottish elections? Or would I go, well, we've had a good go. couldouldn't manage it. Well, I guess the argument to someone like him would be that it's not me that's unpopular. it's Kir Stammer and I am facing the consequences of Kir Stamner's unpopularity. Be I think that's a lot of what the argument is in Wales as well, despite the fact that I think critics of the Welsh goovernment would say actually the the The state hasn't been managed particularly well by labour in Wales I think that is I think you can make that argument in Scotland. I think it's pure copium in Wales. pure copium I party have been the only party to run whales since the deevolved government started it's cope to say that it's Kar Stam or salt. Yeah You've been in power twenty years and There's very little show for it The SMB has been in power for a very long time as well The SMP rather like and fame, I suppose are lots of different political beliefs united under one singular cause of independence. Like if Scotland were to go independent tomorrow, the SMP would probably fracture off into two Chin Fein is as diverse in its niche political views as the SNP is. No you did have there was the breakup of Chin Fein into Au and Chin Fein in twenty eighteen because of the abortion referendum. I suppose you add that to some level Aliba And then when there was the leadership election with people like Kay Forbes and like trying to be the leader of the party. likeike that still exists within the SMP even though other parties were were made as the opposition to certain SMP liberal policies.. I think you've in the SMP but the right wing kind of more traditional nationalists who believe in Scotland because of its radical traditions. Th then you've got the socialist nationalists who believe that Scotland should leave because it's you know hangover from the colonial British emmpire etca cer And I just don't think they'll get on. They don't get on right now and I don't think that they'll They get on If the SMP was I do you think it's one the silliest things about and the SMP is to not the SMP at large The The idea that Scotland is as much a victim of British colonialism as somewhere like Ireland, I think is a bit of a stretch. I could have Will I go further Yeah, going. San? Well, they he voluntarily went into the Union after trying their hand at being a colonial power and saailing They were also quite intrinsic to the plantation of Ulster Um Scottish landed gery quite important to the British colonial regime someome would say Some might say, some might disagree with me. don't think it's particularly controversial to say that Scotland had quite a hand in British colonialism and to say that they are victims on par with Other colonies of the British Empire is a bit of a stretch Beause I mean, there's like look, Ireland had people like Roger Caseman, right and who was intrinsic to kind of Pulling pulling the shhedding light on what was happening in Congo during King Leopold's reign there. became a knight of the realm during that time, was subsequently hanged by the British Empire for his role in the nineteen sixteen rising or sorry, was it the nineteen sixteen Rison or the War of Independence? But he was Basically war was he was murdered by the institutions that revered him years prior to that. So we' We're no strangers to having these people that were benefactors of the British Empire Um But I think in the grand scheme of things with things like penal laws, famine force displacement indentured servitude, things like that outoutway . The Scottish experience. Y term Sean You tell him. I feel I feel I'm vastly unqualified to speak about this as. I feel like I'm going to getidly twelve in the comments today. You know do Middle East of the UK of England. so I'm really have much to comment on this. Okay. No you get it guys Mr. Speaker, I am a Ga. It's theonotic show cast I think that is a serious question though, about the SMP and You've got Stephen Flynn, who's now the former leader of the SMP in Westminster. has resigned from Cons because he got led to Hoywood And he sort of Tell me if I'm wrong, a sort of new generation of the SMP certainly can remove himself from Sturgeon salmon years because he was quite young in the early two two thousand ten s and has kind of been a conquering hero in Westminster and really showed them bastards what's what in London and now he's come home to Rost and his say out stall and there was a great interview he did. I think I think he's purely deleted, but I think I love his confidence where the interviewer was like, well what if Westminster won't grant you an independence referendum? It was like They will And but what They well And he was just notodingong And I think watching him Figure out Hollywood will really interesting because I just don't think an independence referendum iss gonna to happen I think if Andy Bernin was the Prime Minister I could see him devolving more powers because he's just pro devolution Yeah across the board I can't see him wanting to qu break up the Union. Certainly not in the account of Scotland. Well, I mean, it's not in the interest of the The King's first minister. Isn't that the official title of the Pime Minister is the King's first mininister The monarch's first mininister. Yeah Um It's not in their interest to break up the Union. there and it's the same with like You see other policies of like labor in, opposition will be pro proportional representation. They get into power and they're no longer pro proportional representation. Andy Burnham is pro PR. He doubled down on that This weekend, to be fair,s like he says things. he's not going to do them, is he I'm I think there's a lot of like there's a lot of Um There's a lot of deifying Andy Byrnam going on at the moment. He's the Messiah, He is the Messiah I don't think there's going to be more in a world where Andy Bernon becomes the Prime mininister, I don't think there's going to be much of a deviation from See stamorism. So this was the thing whatever that is Everyone at this compass conference this weekend was going Andy Burnham's not the Messi And they just kept saying it, like lots of different people And I think fuck he might be Like I didn't think he was before, but now you're I'm not the Messiety shirt. It's raraising quiteitees. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, he he released this campaign logo last night, which was sick. Did you see it? I put it on my Instant Gram story. Right I'll show you Instant Gam story Instant Gram story. And it was it's so based. It's like the Northern Soul. It's a remix of the Northern Soul Yeah, cool. effffectively like solidarity f with Change Labour Keper faith around it, which is just like The' super bass is me got he's got the music, he's got the blame, He's got acquiescence oasis, so he's got song. That was one of the issues unironically, that was one of the issues with Keith Starmer. We never had a song copied. We never had a song. Yeah funny from Steve Bray, but when Rishi Sunak called the election, Steve Bray on the loudspeakers was playing things can only get better wasn't playing a star mong. What star the song But I mean Things can only get better was being played at Labour confference the year prior. It's been played A to conference every single year since nineteen ninety six. Sure sure. But there was a different there was a different feel about it in twenty twenty three Change is inevitable Um is I mean, that that was the year as well of the the conference cover of it's just him with his sleeves rolled up change That was the manifesto. Beg your pardon was the manifesto. which was a ri off of Bah. Yeah I don't think it was Blair's manifesto, but it was someome have glared. But back to what you're saying about Burnham. Yes, sorry. Like you You can't just say because the guy likes Oasis that he is fundamentally different to Kir Stammer because he actually has a favorite band. Go on, why correct cut Maneaus He's he's just He's going to come in and he's just going it's Burnnam's Britain now. We can just do what we want. This is the moment that we were all waiting for When the twenty twenty four General came through, we thought we werere going to have this great, you know, we criticizeed Blair what I understand when he was like people genuinely in the beginning felt a lot better. Just the cool Britannia vibe of oh Thatcher years and the overhanging of the Tories is over. Bair Cool Britannia, newew millennium. That's what need and that's what Burnham's given us I love it. Burnham who's choosing to use the music of Bip Pop Band He's just going back twenty years, isn't? I wonder is came back to you again Yeah, but it's not becausecause of Andy Bern, they knew they knew. They knew Yeah So Burnham's back, I tell you who's not coming back, who's not coming back Chen Giger or Hassan Piker's nephew Yeah, sad It is quite sad that we werere meant to be speaking at Sou by Souwest Controversial, goo on south by southwest onn the BBS list, I believe. Last year was because of the sponsors. This year it isn't. Is it not? No Um I think the sponsor last year was a God, I can't remember who the sponsor was, but they had Shares in Lockheed Martin. Yeah whichich was what the controversy. the company that owned the gales I don't think it was that distant The gals yeah because it's a hedge fund that owns gales, isn't it? Yeah the hedge fund also invested in Lockkey Martin or something. Yeah Um, The So yeah, last night, it well, it would have been the evening in America Chenk Gwiger tweets saying that he has been banned from the United Kingdom. He's had his visa revoked for his for his views Um in the times it said that the UK governments ense was that Granting him his visa would be more harm than good He wasucive to the public good, I believe N conducive to the public good. the line that they It's for balance It is the same stock line that they use whenever they ban anyone. from coming to the UK and's on it's a version of an electronic visa that if you' famous and you're speaking at something in the UK, you can basically come and go to the UK for a period of eighteen months to two years as much as you want. And they both have that. basically. It is the same stop response when they were banning the far right speakers from speaking at the United Kingdom rally a couple of weeks ago. When they were banning people like Tyler the Creator a couple of years ago, when Theresa May banned Dler the Creator, Snoop Dog But the same when they ban hate preachers like it's just the same ye loophole that they use for anyone that they don't want to come that's high profile. Backbench labour MPs last week were encouraging Shana Mhmood to do this. One backackbench labour MP. Yeah. One David Taylor who he's plugged me on Twitter Th what? He blocked me on it. For a why? Be I raised a completely fair criticism of him. Not even over the kneecaup stuff. B David Taylor is the M. So he was a critic for Bout Nee Cup as well, was he? Yeah, yeah. He's the MP for Hll Hampstead, some such place. All he does is talk about Israel. He is very much the Randy Fine of North London And he he said something stupid that was like that's good Yeah. It's really making hay in here. It was I just He said that um He described Richard Buron as not being worthy to be a colleague or something like, he doesn't viewe him as a colleague. And I was like, that's mad to be talking about labours feellllow labour MPs like that. and he looked at me How long has he been a labor MP for? Dave Teller? twenty twenty four? Yeah, twenty twenty four intake Right U He used to work for Gordon Brown though, don't for Did he, I see? so we're talking That was the only opposition that Labour had within the party to to people. We don't know what MPs was say. Only public opposition Um, argument could be made that this is a similar. I think When you're comparing it to things like kneecap or to Palestine action, I think this is far less of an excuse. They're like there's a far weaker defense to banning these two people They're here for a couple of days. ye they're going to one conference, they might do some media while they're here. Yeah, Chg was going to speak at the Oxyg union as well like to high profile events. I think I could probably lift a little little bit here. We were dear listener, meant to have Hassan Piker on this very sofa this week. And no we can't and I'm actually quite upset about it. I was going to be height mugged and with maxed by Hassan Piker. Bed mugs. Yeah But so good looking. It's a very, very handsome man. So I'll come to America for you. Icome But no, it's inc it's a great shame that someone that you regard as I mean talalking about Jang, but like, I could speak for longer about Hasssan in how the I hope the American state has kind of come down on him quite a lot in the last couple of months It's kind of beginning from his endorsement of Zor in Mandani last year and how the kind of the power of new media commentators like him Titch stream His uncle Cenk is the founder, one of the founding members of the young Turks. So it's all new media TYT TY tate. All new media, not kind of beholden to the agendas of print digital or print and television, I beg your pardon m, in America that have in recent times just gained a humongous audience. Someone like Hassan is one of the biggest twwitch dreamers in the world or he talks about his politics. He was in on the ground floor with Zora Mamdani ended up elevating him to such a point that he was the viable candidate and now the mayor of New York He's doing the same with candidates in Minneapolis in like people that are running for the House and the Senatate in various states across the United States and things that he has said in the past are being used against him. So the most famous one, right Arguably, one of the things that shot Hassanta infam me was him saying on his stream once that America deserved nine hundred and eleven Now. he said that very long time ago. and it was in the context of It was in the context of a criticism of sorry, It was in the context of the essay.. In the context of bin Laden's essay. Yes I don't think it was. No. I think he was talking about blowbacks and how American wars of aggression across the world lead to things like nine eleven happening. He did also separately read Len' let to America. Yeah later I thought that was what it was. No, no, no, no, no, becauseuse he got in quite a lot of trouble for that. Yeah as well because he basically alerted everyone under the age of twenty five that this letter was real. sorry. This latter existed. Yeah which one. Sorry audience. that was myault. Bush He's been flying very closely on in terms of what America considers acceptable to talk about, especially when you are criticizing the American regime and kind of commentary has kind of been exacerbated by the genocide in Gaza. He's been at the forefront of criticizing the American reaction to that. the sale of arms to Israel, how America gives soft power support to Israel as well and how ultimately that war and that partnership has ended up in the diminishing of American power across the globe. He's been doing this openly daily on his stream And it's led to the American political establishment coming down on him to the point where I think it was two weeks ago He was subpoenaed or It Fox News said that he had been issued a subpoena. He said that he never received the subpoena. for going to Cuba for the the N Western Americle armvoy U He claims that everything was above board, he went through all the checks and balances with the treasury with the American the appropriate American channels And so there's been this slow creeping in of like a clamping down on this person's freedom to move and freedom to express themselves point that It's not the Americans that are preventing him from leaving the country It's the British government preventing him from entering the country I think it's a very worrying state of affairs for the United Kingdom to not allow someone like that and his uncle Cenk into the country I have a right wing take on this. Go ahead that you're not going to enjoy. Okay. And it's it's not really that woke. They wouldn't be if it was right wing I think that I see in the same category as Some of the people who banned from the United Kingdom. March, some of them super bad on the record, racist etcera, etcera. An word an MEP Bad guy, but also an elected member of the European Parliament And I see it. I see that person being banned from UkKine the same way that Samampike has been banned at the same way Brit SPes don't get alone in it Israel I don't think we should be stopping MEPs ing into the country And I think this is a slippery slope wh where Last week it was the United Kingdom Pate right wing racists that can come into the country this week it's Sam Parker and his uncle. next week it willll be some I fundamentalist preacher of some denomination that we won't let in. And I think over the next couple of years itll just keep slipping and keepipping and keep slipping. And then if reform get in No one will ever be able to give any legitimate criticism of the way that they would clamp down on free speech because The Labour Party banned a load of people from coming to the UK. The Tories, the liib Dems, the Greens, cheered on the respective villains from their political ideologies that got boundned And I think we will have enabled the potential for an authoritarian state Mhm. and climate on free speech massively. I think so I think it's I think it's very It's a very slippy slippery slope about whoo we celebrate getting banned from the UK and who we disavow getting baned from the UK depending on where they sit compared to athlet school Yeah ye Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah that's I don't think what you said is particularly a right wing take at all and I don't think it's anti woke. I think it's a very well rounded argument, you than. But a couple of things are Con on there I when you're talking about Israel banning MPs or representatives from other countries Buts the decision of Israel and the Israeli government to do that. Let's cast that aside from this argument. Yes, ye Um in a in a let's say hypothetically I don't think that people should have been banned from coming to the UK for that Mhm on the Piso that British people that were on that stage were saying hateful things The contributions of the people from outside of the UK was not going to accelerate. the hate that was being that was on display on that stage. There were just people from other countries doing it. Yeah. So For me, I think allow them to come by not allowing them to come. your your kind of like downstream effect of this is that you now have Pident said that when it comes to left wing people those left wing people will not be allowed into the country for the same reasons that the right wing people were not allowed into the country Now If you have In my eyes, if you've got an argument where you those people shouldn't have been allowed into the UK for the fact that they were spreading hate. legitim argument I don't think that argument translates to somebody who is raising the alarm for his country's complicity in the genocide. don't think that's hate speech. And I think considering that hate speech is far more dangerous than actually having a blanket ban on two people. because or for two opposite political perspectives what you're doing there is One misinterpreting the criticism being levied by people like Cen Gger and Hassan Piker You're conflating the opposition to a genocide to the hatred of a community, i. e the Jewish community. Um, And in doing so create in an environment where further anti Semitism with Fester Right So there's an argument that Hassan makes quite a lot where people who've been radicalized and politicized through the genocide in Gaza donon't know it could be a range of things, don't know about the history of the region don't know about the history of their country, their respective countries's responsibilities in the region. don't know Ecuse me donon't know much or anything about the Jewish community in America, Britain, wherever it might be. If you're told that your opposition to this country committing a genocide against another people. is a hatred of a minority religious group. And you have no prior knowledge of historical political Um, ties to that region eventually the rebelliousness in that political movement will turn around and say Maybe I am antis Semitic. If you haven't got the critical faculties to turn around and say, No, I'm not anti Semitic because of this, this and this. This is a different thing to hating Jewish people as a whole you're You're allowing to fester really insidious antiemitism I think we've seen that exactly in action on the right with racism. Yeah, where everyone who voted Brexit was labeled racist by a certain group of people And even though plenty of them weren't, and it's just been thrown and thrown and thrown and they go, Oh, fuck I might be racist. Yeah Yeah,'s just let's just be racist there. Exactly. I think you have actually had that. Exactly. I mean you look you look at United Kingdom a couple of weeks ago and the I mean, Laura was there herself, but you see like extensive coverage of it where a lot of the people that we were spoken to but peopleople with I'm not even going to say legitimate concerns because a lot of the people that we were spoken to that I saw were not even talking about migration We're talking about a cost of living, you know And now, look, the people on stage are talking about migration, but a lot of people that show up to these things. a different thing. But then again, as you say, they get tarnished with the racist brush. down the line, those people would turn around and say like, you know what? Yeahah, maybe I am actually, you know. So that's what I'm saying when it comes to Hassan and Jenk. If you're labeling them as, well, one the official line not conducive to the public good, but secondarily saying that hate speech is one of the reasons why that these people are not allowed in. because that's criticism being levied at them in the United States our hate speech I personally don't regard them And some of the people that were banned from coming to the Kingdom rallies as the same kinds of speech And I certainly don't regard this as hate speech. I consider it considered And u Uh well detailed arguments about the complicity of Western states in a certain war, but also things like anti imperialism and anti colonialism as well Calling all of that hate speech is incredibly dangerous because it just then questions what the reality of like what is actually real if you're turning around to say that these guys are spewing hate. Yeah. I agree. That's what I mean by it slippery sl. You've gone from peopleople who wal objectively spearing hate speech to someone like Hazan Biker and Chku who were, you vaguely controversial and definitely you know, they definitely throw up a bit of a fuss and evoke a lot of emotions on both sides of the aisle where they're sort of being tarnished with the same brush. And I think it is that slippery slope of where you look at those outraged people being put in the same campers O people outrage people for different reasons. and I think it is that slippery slope that we could find ourselves in a couple of years if You know, a reform UK government cust to coming like you see I know this is not what we're talking about, but Zer youf my God, have you seen his Twitter in the last couple of days? It's became more and more and more extreme. Like he was saying that Let me let me quote this because he's litigious. so if if I don't get this right, I was genuinely I do GB newews pretty, pretty often and Very rarely am I like taken aback by S from Reform because it's sort of the same op It's like vague neotat's been doing very strange coms on his Twitter recently, like whether it's the videos where he's got like the TikTok food influencer voice. Yeah. like, I'm in Dover and there's it. you know. he's got the like the funk edit. Yeah. like ye yeah. It was, right while you're finding that like there's some of the things that Um are talked about on the right. And like as I said I'm of the view that these people shouldn't have been the people from the United Kingdom rally shouldn't have been banned because I don't think there was any material difference in their attendance or absence from that event, whether or not that event was going to be racist or hateful They were not contributing any more to that event. Yeah Hassan Pi Rinchenk Gigur. going to south by south west in London, being banned from doing so because it's not conducive to the public good. I think On another level, it shouldn't really be up to the United Kingdom whatou by Southwest decide to be booking Free marketers Hicky Well, I mean let the man decide. Keep the state out of Th these people the markets wanted. Both of these guys are multiillionaire commentators. Surely the market has decided that they're conting sort of the public good. you know. So you've got some tweets there. Yeah,' this it's this one that really caught me off.. This a use of Twitter. this is two twenty six on the twenty ninth. he said this just in case he deletes it and tries to me We'll put it up on screen. Recent events demonstrate why I view the Torian labour politicians who created the burning injustice of modern Britain as traitors to their country. A reckoning is coming What are you on about? Yes, that's traitors reckoning. You're sounding quite fascisty there. Yeah. Thats doesn't sound good at all. Nigel Farage isn't even Prime Mister yet and already doing more to stop the invasion than any of the traitors that have occupied high office in this country Dutch What? It's an incredible couldould you imagine Kir Stammer saying things like that in twenty twenty two? L Andy Berham gets a bit passive progressive on Twitter and calls people loud quite a lot. And we all think That's quite funny, but like maybe if you're going to be Prime minister Let's stop doing them fucking hell this guy is He's one of the guys Yeah, He's one of the guys, isn't he?. I like. But like He's the shadow homeome sectary, their homeome affairs spokesperson imagine Wh's the home affair spokperson for Lib D Daisy Cooper. Daisy Cooper running about saying that the reckoning is coming for the traitors. like I might spice up the liibd down communications a little bit. Could you imagine like he's just on like a carousel going? But traitor shall be brought to justice. Yeah it's remarkable. Yeah ye. It's but this is what I'm saying. like this kind of language is obviously like It's a wink and a nod to this idea of like they they have always been in it for themselves. We're going to be in it for you There's a deep space playing in its own self interest and dividing you against one another join us and we'll be able to stop that. That's insidious. Yeah. sayaying America is sending hundreds of billions of your taxpayers' dollars Israel to kill children And by the way, I'm going to Britain and Britain's doing the exact same I don't think thats as insidious because it's in black and white, you can go and find these things out for yourself. Speaking of the establishment class. Yeah. Big tranch of Mandleson emails coming out this afternoon. That's right. yeah. Stay tuned for them. obviously Not not in front of us now, but there's more Peter Files coming before half three, I think isn't? I think That's when Darren Jones is going to be standing up to So you give his retort to it all Yeah. V good Didn't we call it there? I suppose they've had enough for a Monday, haven't they?. You've been spoiled Andy, thanks very muchual Thanks, Ben. Thanks, Andrea Thank you.