The ghost of New Labour politics

Am I tough enough a strong and stable leadership? Total rubber. Hell yes, I'm tough enough. Shut Frenge. Not another one. It's the politics show cast Lve podcasts eight nonnces is the Politics Joe podcasts,adies and gentlemen. Oh on A new face here on the couch for Sumyi But for real joe headads This isn't a new face for you at all No, probably probably won't be. If you're familiar with Henry Hill ball Joe, you will be familiar with Charles Herbert, the London Economic Yes, yeah, like likely so I'm usually in here. failing to identify footballers from the Nauies. How's your geography? Are you good on the geography? Oh the geogph for usually is where I really claw back points against whatever, you know you know where it is on the map content creator I'm up against they usually look at the map and there unsure whether it's Europe or not. What's your record like? Are you regularly losing or do you nick a win or what? I reckon I'm on about a thirty percent win win ratio usually happy to say a defeat Yeah when when the wind comes along it was nice Game admirable score, I'd say. I have got a one hundred percent hit rate on the football joob. Yes. M made one appearance, didn't you? And then yeah, I think it was decided. I think it was the only one. Yeah, it wasn't a well liked episode, that wasn't? Scottish Scottish Premership. Scottish Prem Marriage the old firm, the geography round I spank Dead Campbell on, which I was shocked by given that he's from that country and then beat him on sudden death. Good stuff But yeet Chilelie's here. London economic U We're going to do PMQs. we're probably going to St start with The heaviest story of PMQs U should we just roll the clip Let'srall the clip. country is united in its horror at the tragic death Henry Novak And would the Prime Minister once again join me in paying tribute to the courage of Henry's family in the face of this tragedy? And will he also join me in calling for the recognition of the serious mistakes made by the police and that we must learn from those mistake so that no family may face this tragedy again. My thoughts are with Henry's family, I'm sure the thoughts of the wholeouse and the whole country. I have watched the body cam footage as others will have done I found it really hard. It was harrowing And as a dad of a seventeen year old boy, I felt sick I can only imagine how devastated his family are. It is extremely moving. Henry's life has been stolen his family had responded with incredible and immense dignity and bravery. Now there clearly are lessons,pe that need to be learnt, serious questions that need to be addressed. Not least this question about accxisations of racism informed decision making in such cases Henry's father said this We do not want his death. to be used to create further division, hatred or tension They're the words of a grieving father who's lost his son. We do not want his death to be used to create further division. Hatred. or tension I think those words have resonated with people across the country We must not allow this tragedy to be hijacked by anyone who seeks to divide us. Nigel Fr. Thank you Mpeak. Following the horrendous circumstances of Henry Novak's death, can I urge the Prime Minister to consider this? It is now clear to growing millions in this country that we're living under two tier policing. The instructions that are given to police officers from police bosses are clear and written down in ink. It says you must treat different ethnic groups in different ways. Apart apart from the upset and the anger at the circumstances of his death, the anger that you saw spilling out in Southampton last night. is in danger violence Which is in danger of getting considerably worse Be if the public lose trust If the public lose trust in being treated fairly by the police, can he take some action end this divisive practice of two tier policing and make sure that all British citizens are treatedly The same Mr. Speaker, I don't believe there's two tier policing in this country I'm really shocked that he pretends to have respect for Henry's family and then acts in this way. They are a grieving family. Mr Brush, please, it's a very important question. I want to hear the Prime Minister you want to carry on Go outside, please, Prime Minister Theving family have asked us not to respond in the way that the leadeer of Reform has responded. They've asked us not to. They have lost their son in the most appalling circumstance. They make a simple plea of us as human beings to please not exploit that. That is their plea to us We all need to reflect on those words of Henry's father. My response and the response of others to be fair, has been focused on the lessons to be learned, so we can deliver justice. His response has been to appeal For rage. Rge. That's his response to a father who's lost his son and asked for that not to happen. Exploiting this tragedy to create grievance and division would be wrong in any circumstances, but to do it when the family are expressly saying Please don't. is unforgivable. It shows exactly who he is. So that was longer than we usually do for the podcast, but I think it was important to have the context of previous question in where Kirstam is replying to backackbencher Noa very obviously onene of those pre arranged question' handed to him by one of the whips So Kersteimer could basically say his peieace in a longer way than he did at the beginning of PMQs and them All of the solemnity and kind of the personal relation to the murder of Henry Novak is kind of sucked out of the room by Nigel Farage politicizing him It's Yeah, he' obviously last twenty four hours. I mean, he was really. He does his video yesterday morning and You sort of he labels emergency broadcast to the name you he's always trying to try to act like he's this prime ministerial figure. Yeah Yeah. It's a video on X, you know, right? So But anyway, And then yeah and you're watching it. hearing some of these lines have come out with Obviously parroting the two tier policing. White lives matter Pure cold rage And it's interesting how that has been Both s both sides of the house, Tories, labour, both sort of really condemning that in any wayay, yeah, he gets up and says his peieace Goes aroundond the two tier policing line really. That's what that that's what that's what he's He's going down. Um which, you know, as we know, very little evidence for as many senior officers, superintendents have said Um And inched down when when he mentions the Southampton. scenes, the amount of heckling from both sides without sort of asking him to condemn it. is really substantial. Yeah and obviously he doesn't. Yeah Um I mean, it's the You even before he begins speaking, you hear cross the house shame on you before he even we don't know what he's going to say. He could apologize now he doesn't. But he could apologize, as you say, like I think the title of the video on YouTube is called Nigel Farage's adddress. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Again. this idea of like people like Zia Yusuf being the shadow homeome secretary. O is shhadow Chancellor ia? No, I think Yusuf is shhadow homeome seecretary Home seecretary. Is it not even an MP? Yeah, no, notot even an MP. So they just miming and aping this kind of this authority that they don't have And as you say, like this speech study Broadcasts out. doing the more or less the exact same thing as he did with Souport last year. Oh, it's so it's so similar. It's like, you know, he's getting about as close as he can to asking people to protest I mean weout actually say it, but the words that he says in kind of recognition of a statement by Henry Novak's father outside the court on Monday where Henry Novax Fadder basically says Um This cannot be used to divide be used to mobilize any hate towards any sort of community We just want justice and we want this to be. He references it as an issue of knife crime and it should be a watershed moment for wanting to resolve that issue rather than it being a divisive and violent topic. Nigel Farage then goes on the day after and says This is what Henry Novak's father said we should respond with Pure cold rage It's outrageous. And like as we're talking the kind of coverage of that interaction has been It seems like it's kind of a widespread recognition that Nigel Farage has kind of misstepped here. He could have wrote back a small bit. Yeah, I think there's, I mean, well Watching PMQs are startaring on to see Starmred in those open opening remarks references it and it' in the very, you know pointint man and then Kemmy Baade knock also, you know, but then her questions are then separate to the Sparate the issue. first question about the welfare. welfare bill. And Sting I gets the the first thing he does is thanks They knock for her tone and for not Yeah I'm not sure if he actually says for not mention making it about the Noak, but he certainly acknowledges that she has decided to swerve this as a as a sort as a sort of a tinderbox Um it subject that she could have gone down. maybe maybe some ory MPs of their in charge party would have gone down and chose not to. And so it's really like and whether the Tories have done this consciously or not or whether it's just because of how far reform have gone Yeah with this They it actually looks like Labour and Tories are on a very similar page on this one. or certainly their lead, their frontline sort of uh politicians are in that they're both acknowledging Novak's family want Yeah and going yeah, on this one to say things like, you know you I think I think Farage genuinely says White people in Britain now have less privileges and rights than ethnic minorities. And so which I mean it's just you Beggars's belief really what I think even Rupert Low was tweeting stuff yesterday You said I wantont set the death penalty for Yeah. And then then today, even he's come out and called out for Aj now and it's like it's it's really It's really baff. And then there's stuff with like the attack ads against Badenock, the reform of Darn, where they' sort of mis Oh, the BLM Yeah. Yeah, where there's sort ye and then you know, completely ignoring most of what she said U Zia Y if they you know, arguing thatut you saiding, I think to Sophie Ridge Um We've not misrepresented there. he was genuinely, you know arguing that that was a fair representation of the comments they've gone off the deep end, I think on this. There's there's quite a lot of like moderate right commentators and stuff who are really like this is Why do you think they've g off so so deep on it? Do you think it's kind of a recognition at this point that they've been ceding so much ground to restore they either need to I was talking about this, I think at the beginning of the year with Laura. where, um, Restore were're just beginning to become a movement And End of twenty twenty five into twenty twenty six was kind of the The fat Tony fit Tony Tory MPs becoming reform MPs Um And you had this kind of this questioning of what reform actually stood for, if they're just taking all of these twenty nineteen. Johnsonian conservatives into the partary. If they're supposed to be different, how can they possibly be different when they just have these toens of the old conservative party within it And that's how they ended up starting to lose so much ground to restore in the first place Do you think there's an aspect of recognizing That's the audience that they need to be going after rather than the conservative audience. And so they need they're now chasing their tail a small bit by going so far in and so over the top. with the communications over things like things as tragic as what happened in Southampton. Yeah, I think there's probably I think certainly the last two weeks of the make afield by election and there's been a real No one' about restore more than reform our Like reform or giving restore the greatest publicity they've ever had Most people still didn't know what Rore is or didn't two weeks ago, didn't know Rupert Le was. and now they're hearing Farj and Yusseuf and Gemerick all talking about and they're going, o, who are this restore. They've almost created this beasts themselves over last two weeks and now they've convinced themselves are losing their support, which they may well be, does eith ore going to do better than expected, Megfield. Theyt like come very close at all to winning it, but If they take enough votes fromform obviously, that could really help help Bs me to win the burner Um, I also wonder whether they're so obsessed with They the sort of X musk proud you know, that they are like they've almost gone. there's a part of this country. that we're never going to convince, you know, the what they would probably call the, you know, Lberal elite, the metropolitan London sort of crroud audience and they're going, but we're banking on there there's a huge proportion of this country that are so sick and tired of everything that they will like in Salampton, They are out on the streets. they're so angry with everything that we can We can really, yeah, we can ape them here. we can get them riled up. and they would then come out and and vote for us at whatever election is probablyably a crowd audience that would not vote at a general election usually, that you'd usually not hear from at all And that anger obviously does exist in this guy as you see with something and it's horrific. What is mean genuine Nazi salutes these things. you racism and far right far right protests with these up. I think they think there's a bigger proportionist country where that exists than the other the main parties realize and maybe restore are what I think restore are a key part of them realizing that and that's what they're going after. they're going right. We're not going to convince Labour voters we're not going convince Tory voters at this point but maybe we can we can activate a group that complete disfont. I wonder, I don't know, I think just With this, it's u I mean like his angle being, well, it's two tier policing, it's so much of a kind of An overshoot of DI, an overshoot of Black Livves Matter.er very Trump. again, this is them doing American lines. DEI. is that's Trump. You go you go somewhere what doesEI mean? No idea. That's not even what it is on the forms and job applications. N at all. They are he is parroting Maga lines. And again I don't know how he thinks that's good Yeahah, but it plays into a certain audience, you know, like there's folk there's folk that vote for reform or may vote for restore. that haven't had to fill in a job application in forty years. Do know what I mean So they's like, yeah, I suppose that's what it's called now But I Go back to the thing of the kind of the conservative vote that bled over to reform in the last couple of years I think when you see things like that and you see how Like I mean, because it's an incredibly harrowing event, right I don't think it's fair. to say so early on. and it's the only thing I'd probably criticize Kir Stammer for is how he repeatedly references racialized pleasing Yeah and how like having seen body count footage It's very hard to detoose from that what may have been a play. Yeah. But to say before any investigation has taken place that could be a reason why. I don't think I think that's incredibly dangerous because you're you're allowing you're inventing the battlefield for the far right to then meet you in. Yeah. and they're going to go further than you with all of that You've got this kind of this community of reform voters that are like the Hamlets and the shhires the corduroy trousers that are now reformed. and they see things like that. I'd wonder If you're starting to alienate those people with that kind of action. It would be really yeah, it Th those like true blue Tories And if it and things like this, whether where at the moment, they'd still say, oh yeah I'd probably vote forform, etceta. But then whether something like this They see Fage acting like this. This is a usef acting like this with not acting like politician or any sensible sort of statesmen It's adjent it's adjacent to Tommy Robberinson discourse. Yeah. like it's not it's not the kind of thing that a person that voted for Jacob Bes Mg four years ago. No, you'd be going for it. Oh, no, yeah. we're Miles from a well Yeah, Boris Johnson wouldn't wouldn't have done wouldn't have gone down this road. You know, I think about it Tory prrim Ministers last sort of ten, forty years We're miles away from that here at the moment. what forudges like. So I wonder wh something like this when it comes to a general election, whether that is just at the back of You know Boris Johnson voters mind And so they go they stick with Tory or whatever and then whether that. that I mean, that think of for the next two or three years, however long and is until the next general election. I think big question is when it comes to when it's not a local election, it's not a by election, when it's a general election many how much reform support actually thinks I want to see them in charge of the country the economy, policing. And whereever at that point they go actually because I remember how I remember how it rereacted after Southort. I remember how he reacted after to the the the Novak murder And you just think Is that kind of volatility what I want? At the moment they're still on the outside they're not actually in the corridors of power Do I want that actually five years in charge of the country I live in. Yeah and that will be There be people that are now there for their reform. Until the end now but I think there's a there is a there is a There's certainly a section of support where something like this, they'll be looking at Farage and going You're not just the sort of funny guy drinking a pint and having a cigarette rightight here. You're not the not you're not the Ima Sleb contestant here. This is quite sinister Yeah and really quite concerning and quite dangerous, very dangerous Next clip I welcome the Prime Minister's commitment to combat anti Semitism But the regular heat marches we've seen on our streets with the chanting of globalizing the interfada has led directly to tax on Jewish businesses on synagogues on individuals in the streets and now an arsen attack on where Jewish people live So the Jewish people of our country now want to see action with war words. Will the Prime Minister, therefore commit to the type of action that we need to expel students who commit anti seemitic acts who are from overseas Will he take action to prescribe the IRGC?? Will he take action to close down the thirteen Iran sponsored charities in this country that spread anti seo Semitism Would we also take action to ensure that all children I talkught the horrors of the Holocaust The importance of not expressing hatred towards one another and the true history of the founding of the state of Israel The Jewish people of this country want to feel safe on our streets and in their homes and in our country So will the Prime Minister take the appropriate action?? Can I thank him for his question? and we are united in our belief that we must fight the poison of anti Semitism wherever it is found. We are investing more to keep Jewish communities safe, more police patrols, greater security at schools and synagogues investing several million pounds to tackle anti Semitism with within our universities. and bringing in prescription like powers to clamp down on maligned state activity. We will set out further steps in coming days and I'll make sure he's fully informed of the steps that we're taking. Robert to those who don't know, Bob, to you and me, Blackman, Bob the hair Paroting the lines that you probably saw in America maybe a year ago when it came to the student protests on campus. Yeah, yeah, it was about that, wasn't it? Yeahah. Camped down. Yeah over there And now It's interesting, isn't it? becausecause it's coming In the same week that the home office decided to revoke the electronic visas of Chk Giger and Hassan Piker. U again was meant to be sat right here He sat right here on this sofa this week. Tomorrow, he was meant to be here. Really? Yeah Um We may still get something hopefully, but it's a great shame that I wasn't going to be I'm now not going to be heyightmgged by what is he like six foot four, six foot five, something mental like that? Oh yeah. I'm a heyightmoggged bier five eight so you know. Asve five eight. Oh yeah. Its five eight, let me say that up in the wind. But no it A strange thing to hear in the I know like every now and again we've had bits and bobs of this over And the last since twenty twenty three But I think particularly in that question from Blackman The idea of deporting students for going on Palestine marches is a new turn in the discourse that I think is quite I mean is sinister the right way to put it. I think the idea of banning Twitch streamers from the United Kingdom is already a bit mad. Yeah to then move on to have the conversation in Parliament of are we going to get rid of students for having thoughts as well? Like university is where all of this pops off, you know It's I think it's a sinister turn in the whole discourse Yeah, it was yeah, but I think it's the the mentioning Again, the march is always the point for criticisms and Moving into students at universities now again, which is, you know These are the places where A lot of Tory MPs and voices for the last five, six, seven years have been calling for No clamp downowns on on free speech there kind and stuff with a lot of the gender debates and stuff that Yeah yeah, the Castleine stock stockuff. Yeah, those right that's always been you know, these yeah, there should be No one should be banned from speaking there. you know, the other right wing voices St studentss union is not letting them speak there and then Tori and Bill wr wing voice with then voice their anger at that So yeah, it's like there their side of where do you draw the line then? You can't have won One for them one for the other. I think the flip side of that is star and labor banning U S, um right, far right commentators coming over for the United Kingdom and The argument behind that And then suddenly when it happens on the other side, you realize that this is this is a complicated debate On both sides, you can't have your cake and eat it. you know I was saying this with Andy on Monday of the Kathleen Stock pointint is a good one, I think as well. the kind of free speech for me, but not for the thing particularly when it comes to the United Kingdom and these two characters I think In my eyes, I don't think those people should have been banned because I don't think they're contributing anything more to that event that's going to make it more racist or more xenophobic It is especially in terms of protecting a nation's global reputation as one of upholding free speech and freedom of debate and kind of the the stewing of ideas and clashing them together and what comes out at the other end So For me, I don't think either should be bn. Yeah, yeah. but If one is banned, I think conflating the other with that is incredibly dangerous for the fact of you're taking these people who are on record as being openly racist on their platforms you take these two people who are openly critical of a state committing genocide against its neighbor say that these people are the same as those people is insanity Yeah. incredibly dangerous to. I mean, there was a clip yesterday. I think it was LBC where Jenk was on doing a hit and u He's talking to Sheila Ferty. It's like, No, no, no, I'm my hateful. I'm critical of the Israeli government and their the use of white phosphorus in southern Lebanon against civilians and their U they're starving of the gaz and people and blah blah blah. These are the things that I've been banned from the UK for. And then Sheila Fy comes back and she's essentially like, well, you know, in the UK, you're not, you don't get in trouble for Um Sorry voicing those beliefs. and he's like, I just had my visa revoked for her. What are you talking about? And then like she it's like the kind of The way broadcast media has interpreted what's going on in Palestine for the last two years when it's confronted with the reality of how, because at the time that Palestine action were prescribed There was a feasible there was there was so much uncertainty around it that was a feasible thought in broadcaster is that should you interview someone from Palestine actction, you could be arrested So nobody had these debates with people from Palestine action This guy is an American millionaire broadcaster. telling you They told me that the reason why they didn't let me in is because of this, this and this Yeah. And at that point that confrontation with the reality of the crackdown on free speech. She of foga, he's well we don't know, we don't know. We'll wait and see what the result of that is. J like bumbling through U And it seems that like there's no there's no critical There's no critical ta in either journalism or politics. when it comes to this debate in particular, like I mean, Kira Stam are a couple of days in saying that is she being Israel does have the right to cut off food and electricity from Gaza And People like Emily Thornby kind of waiting in behind David Lamy Wading in behind and there' only a couple of days wasas it yesterday, West Street and now doing a complete one hundred eighty on it and talking about how opposed he is to what's going on in Gaza? Yeah ye ye When we can see in the Mandelom files, that the only reason he was concerned about it was because he was going to lose his seat if he wasn't concerned about it So like the There's no there's no morality in the politics of this. There's no There's no conscience in the politics of this It's listening to Bob Blackman say something objectively mental We should ban students for speaking their mind. We should ban students for going on a protest and it being thing that can be entertained in the mother of all parliaments, it's gone so deep into the abyss of what Aceptable debate and acceptable critical thought is that I don't think there's Unless all of them, unless all of them go, there's no way of getting out of this this hole. Yeah.'s in it's in a straight jacket there's no room for any sort of debate on this in almost any main sort of mainstream sphere I can think of, So like question time, it wouldn't be meaningfully debated. Well there was one, wasasn't there like a couple of months ago where an audience member was talking about it and Fiona Bruce inter Jjectson says the IDF would deny they're committing a genocide in Gaza. Are you mental But. They the they twoo active cases in the Hague Arest warrants out for Netanyahu Gallants Um I think Smotrich may be as well. I might be wrong on that. But definitely you have Galand and Benjamin Nanyahu. Isaac Hertzog, the president that's been cheerleading at the entire time, welcomed with open arms in the UK. whilst All of the international legal and political frameworks are saying, you should probably not be doing this. It's like two worlds living parallel to one another Um you bring that in with how like disillusion people are with politics, whether it' on the left or on the right, and you look at mainstream politics that in credit to the previous question we were talking about handled incredibly well by Kir Stammer when it comes to the the actions of a foreign state, it seems that It's impossible for the government to have any sort of criticism Wwards blatant breaches of international law that the state is doing. Yeah. And it's difficult to see a way out of this as well the moment of the n don't know. how this cycle ends in the near future. orever it just Well, obviously it's Wes Streeting becoming the prime mininister and then being pro Gaza all of a sudden. Yeah yeah ye. Iilford North, one hundred percent for West Streeting in twenty twenty nine I think may maybe that's it. Maybe that's it Why don't you just do your job? Do your job. It's a politics J cast Sean, do you know what time is No I can't read clocks. It's time to thank our sponsor for this podcast, NordVPN. What does VPN stand for Virtual private network. Bang on. Is that actually it? That's actually what it is. Yeah. Well done, well done. So come on then, what would you be what would you be using a VPM for? Seaan, let me tell you, let me ask you this question. Have you ever found yourself in a cafe, a hotel several times. Yeah. And you got to use their Wiifi. It's still very secure, though. No, yeah, your data could be at risk at any point in any of these places, Yeah. You got to change all your password if the wiifi gets hacked, it's a whole ordeal. Yeah. And as someone who doesn't want to do that I often implement a VPN. Do you? Okay. If you go into the description of the podcast or On the link on the screen right now, you'll go straight to nordvpN dot com forward slash politics Joe. If they use that link, they're going to get four months free on a two year plan. Let's say you're not in the country of your choice, but you want to watch some of their television or some of their local programming, you'll be able to do that. That's dead handandy, isn't it? I tell you what Seaan, Do you know what else is dead handy? is that if you sign up And you don't like it in your first thirty days, you can get your money back Really H That's quite generous of them, isn't it? Only the best of the politics Jo listeners. That's right, That's right. So if I'm in a cafe restaurant hospital Anywhere in the world, you're telling me that I can watch TV that I'd like from the UK. Well, even on your home WiFi, but the reason that you'd get it in while using public wiifi is your password may be at risk. Yeah. What the hell are you waiting for? Go to nordvPN. com forward slash politics Joe. What do they get Four extra months again in a two year plan. And if they don't like it They get their money back. In thirty days. In thirty days, crucially, crucially. So act now. I'd say there's enough days to make up your mind Yeah, if you've not decided after thirty days That's on you I've had situations shhips that are less r Speaker, I am a Guna It's Pitics show cast. You know, that That scenario asides. it feels like That inevitility is. Yeah, yeah, yeah,. unlikely how like It they were. Well let's in a few months, but Yeah, it's just this whole stifling of any sort of meaningful yeah, the The Hson Pker and It just That does kill an entire debate around this If you've got grievances with He is saying what people like him saying what people you know what passed on action are doing There's be a forum where this gets actually spoken about in a detailed civil manner instead of just banning of them and there' no more conversation about this or the moment anyone tries to have a conversation an immediate shutdown of that And Well I mean, like half the crack of it being that like I'd say a hefty, sixty, seventy percent of the British population don't even know what twitch is Yeah They certainly know who Hassan Piker is after this week Yeah, you know U so All of these attempts to silence and stifle free speech and debate are doing the exact opposite. Oh yeah. I mean, Palestine action most people wouldn't have heard of before Before then you sudenly got a storyame terr five hundred record arrests from the met in one day of action. and suddenly, that then becomes a story that everyone is hearing about and you know It's and it's it suddenly in the public I much more than it otherwise would have been And whet yeah I How do I We do another one Yeah, let's roll the clip. The fact is, despite his huge majority, the Prime Minister doesn't have the votes to reform welfare There is a solution, a conservative solution. benefits bill down They're all jeering now. I don't know why they're supporting him. He is more than happy to release all their text messages while all of his has disappeared.pp Disappearing messages from a disappearing PM. There is a conservative solution, benefits build down, taxes down, growth up. Everyone in this House know, everyone in this House knows that he is just a caretaker, keeping the seat warm the Mayor of Manchester. But it doesn't matter who's in charge, Labour MPs will keep asking who can they tax to pay no benefits. It is in their DNA. Isn't it the truth, Mrak that the problem isn't this passive prrime Minister, The problem is the Labour Party. ive me if I don not take too much notice of to lead the opposition. For fourteen years they broke our welfare system, lost control of our borders, presided over the biggest fall in living standards on record, broke the economy. Pisons, the NHS, I could go on and on. No wonder she and they are totally irrelevant. I mean by whole question answer between here in Kemy wasn't set in chamber of light today? No. But I think what was interesting about the the conversation, notot specifically about welfare itself, because this is something that Kemy Badnoockx labored the point on for donkeys at this point I think It's that she has a new reference point for it now, which is Pat McFadden and the I don't know how M you were into the weeds of the Mandelon Files on Monday at TLE, but The amount of text between Peter Mandelson and Pat McFadden is astounding It might it might just be that Pat McFadden doesn't know how to turn disappearing messages on and everyone else does Um, constant communication between the two of them and the point that Kemy's referencing is, of course, the the rock in the hard place that Pat McFadden seemed to identify himself in being us He needs to find places to tax people in so he can give handouts to other people. Um But yeah, no, I just wanted to use it as a springboard more so to talk about Mandelen. because I think like This has been the welfare stuff has been labored so much at this point by the Conservatives and the defense bikerstam are there as well being As much as I hate to say, Well, you did this so we have to fix it. He's been saying he's been using that line for two years But I think particularly on things like welfare, there is a case to be made that he's plugging holes that the conservatives have And yeah Um But yeah, I don't know, the Mandelen the Mandelen aspect of it, just the idea that. someone I suppose someone like Pat McFadden would have worked with Manelson back in the day, wouldn't he? Yeah. So there's a thing there. Yeah Um someome of the other bets though T David Lam delivered to David Lam the H handwritten. I promise you'll never regret that. It's so just every the more you read about how he writes and speaks and messages he just this sort of smarmy individual Mandelson that you always heard about under the well obviously the Blair is a well documented and Brown bringing him back and then he's sort of lampooned as his character in even the thick of it to a sort of Mandlesson type Yeah guy And then I mean, just like the stuff that's come out over the last few months, you just realize how much of it just isn't it isn't a caricature. E you hear about this guy. E everyone says about him whether it's people that knew him or in the lobby or like It's just all true and it's all like it's really what interested me a lot about this latest batch because obviously there's a lot missing from it on the request of the police because of the ongoing investigations into the not just the links with Jeffrey Epstein, but also the kind of the business dealings with Chinese and Russian firms. seecrets. And then like the alleged lobbying on behalf of companies like Palantir and whatnot, in the absence of There's one particular point they're talking about. I think it's the nerve that wrote about it where Mandelson allegedly arranged a meeting for Kir Stamer with Palanteer senior execs without the presence of any civil servants there. So no minutes were taken on the meeting Which you would think someone who was in government for as long as Peter Mandelson was would know that there has to be a civil servant servant present at a meeting like that. But that's by the by. I've slipped his mind on that I The interesting part of it all is generational divide between the labor figures that he sends messages to. So for example, apart from Wes Streeding, who seems to have Great time for Peter Manelson U figures like Byron Jones. Ed Milliband are in the files where it's just a one way conversation. or Peter Mandelon just firing off texts that they never replied to I think Kir Mher is a victim to it at some point as well There's two or three. text messages go his way and the exact same thing just left on read That I think is very interesting. B peopleeople as young as what's Ke they're twenty four, twenty five. Yeah. Someone like him that can credit. I mean, he used to work for West Streeting is now obviously part he's one of the chief whips of Kirirst Stammer's government. Arguably a very Mandlonian bringing in the labor parity. Yeah. even he is not replying to the mess time fr. Yeah's like you ye. It's very strange, isn't it Yeah, I guess it is this. idea that there is this sort of ghost of the Labour Party, isn't it that Gordon Brown calling for him when it when the when Brown's government was, you know looking like it was heading for an election defeat, and that at the time felt like a desperate call from from Brown to the man that Everyone that was quite well you didn't get along with at all. Yeah And so then Starmer calling from his U.S. ambassador and they were go, Oh, Mandelson's back mean, he keeps getting drawn back and he's this sort of a rare consistent link all the way back to The start of Blair, the new Labour This threads that, you know E after Jer Corbn talks about him from the nineteen eighties. Yeah, lot and he sort of came up through that. He was at that same same time B becoming an MP and stuff. So And then even after you know Millibam's leadership, Corbn's leadership where they've got obviously no time. Corbyin, obviously had no time for him and He was nowhere near, Corbin's leadership or sh the Cabveninet or anything like that Um And yet still Still can be brought back into the fold by Darm but and so I guess to a young MP, you you just feel like he's this he he's He's old news. hes just has been that, you know, that labour needs to rid itself of now. And particularly now if they even if you do, you know, even if you got you know strong new labor, Blair right Mandalsonian type sort of politician in labour You probably feel like we really are we going back to Mandelon? We we're getting Peter back? Yeah H me Yeah Christ. not anyone you would can get No more There was a feeling that wasn't there when he was when he was touted as the U.S. ambassador in the first place. that it was just like, oh Stammorism is just Bair Yeah. It's just Blair again, but like microwavaveed after ten days being left in the sun Yeah with none of the blare. charm I guess they had. None of the spring onion, none of the garnish. It's just no spice. just the noodles. Yeah. just is exactly what it is. Noodles Berism. is Ta noodles or no what are those noodles that have the really nice spice? I can't think of the name of the brand. Obviously other noodle brands are available Noodles today U some spring onions The flavor and the soy sauce. Yeah, yeah, plenty of soy sauce. Yeah. Hure stammer and stammerism doesn't even have the hot water in. It's just a sandwich of dry Yeah, just dry noodles. Prunching into a load of noodle. G resensible carbohydrates. A yeah, the food is fuel. Yeah. That's good starting It's like no, no, it's just like It's just fuel. Yeah, yeah. It's not even It's not even dried noodle. Yes it's fuel. flavorless fuel. Take all of government, just blend it up Uh hu into some efficient You I Beverage Amerism. Yeah, ye. and if it gets you the day then that's the kiss job done, you know That's it. You make it to the end of the day, Kiss arm I think's done a job well done Should we call it there? I have I have a thought that I just don't really have much to say about Ed Davy having a bit of a laugh and a joke. No, it was all a bit Yeah. And it's also the Tony Blair letter from like two weeks ago, Do you know what I mean? Yeah, it was I guess there wasn't PMQs last week was there? So he's had this one on he's had it on the He's had that there. he's going But he's thought of one of his onene of his aes has thought of that joke and like we're using this use this head. I don't care if it's a month's time you got shoe on it in. We're using this drone Wars like? maybe Maybe it's a good place to end it then. We'll close out with Davy Charles Herbert, Charlie Herbert to you and me. you as well because he's a friend of Paul Jo Thank you very much. Absolute pleasure. solute pleas See you next time Mr. Speaker with our armed forces overstretched Labour now seems to be investing in a new weapon of war the long form essay. It gives another meaning to the phrase drone warfare