Closing Remarks and Future Projects

Am I tough enough a strong and stable leadership? Total rubber. Hell yes, I'm tough enough. Shut Frenge. Not another one. It's the politics show cast Love podcasts sweaty nonsers What about sweatating nononsis? J the nones are probably sweating today, aren't? Yeah? everyveryone sweating. Okay, I have a piece of information. If youre listening by the way I' with Seaan Hickkey and Andy twelves. I have a piece of information And I'm so excited to tell you about this. I was giggling like a little girl last night when I was texting. I went to a gig last night. Yeah, I went to Hank They just got a record pressed actually, which is ex I really like them a lot. I think I've talked about Hanc on here before I've never heard of them until you. I don't know what. I don't know what this thing is. Buty anyway they're great Anyway, so when theyesAday Oh my god, also just like disaster. we were like buying, okay, my boyfriend is very much like a he's like You got to vote with your wallet. So like when it comes to like, he will spend his money on like bs gigs, merch records, like that's where he spends his money. Do you know what I mean? I spend my money on like fvolity, like getting my nails done And anyway, that's just not true. but I hope you did your nails yourself That is really weird you do do them yourself. Yeah, but you do doing them yourself. Yeah. okay, but like that makes it sound like they look like no listen, I say this because Ava doesn't have ac crybix Like if you had I don't have credit No. That's why you did the m yourself. No, yeah, I like my nails like really short and practical. becausecause youve got toa type. I can't I can't be handling that, you know what I mean? Do ever see people text and but long nails and they use like the ends of their what my mess is. D it? Yeah. Do Is she gonna get like a bow thumb by the end of it, do you think? I don't I'll ask. All right, look, by the by, that's not the point. Like one of them say for of them. No I don't. you keep them sure That's where. Oh that. Okay. T that. Back to the story, who's on the door doing the tickets Osama bin Laden's niece away Yeah She's pretty sick. Yeah, she's just doing the cirits That's pretty se. Right This isn't this isn't much of a reaction Now I exited this is because Ive got a girlfriend, guys My girlfriend founded a company with his nephew Yes, he's always about. Yeah. his nephew's like a big startup bro and she was involved in a company with him. So I'm familiar with the bin Ladens. The bin Ladens are just around East London. It's crazy. I didn't know was like trade or something? I thought no, no, no, it was a smaller venue, but I just say like No one was really shocked or interested by this piece of information. I was excited. disco? Did you ask her? O someone said very, very casually, they just turn around to me and they' like, this is Sama's n. And I was like, Of bin Laden. I was like Of Bin Laden bins. Did you What was she up to? Did you talk to her? was in a band U I't I didn't ask her about some. You don't You don't ask's interesting thing for Osama bin Laden's door to be doing, isn't it? Equally being an investor in tech. No that makes a lot more sense than I think that they should have quiet lives Like they're not They're worth a lot of money, aren't they? I don't know she is. I'm not sure. is f if she's on the doororsep. Indeed vent you probably don't mean I was trying to think to myself last night, like I was like, how how incl. You know, London is just such a a vibrant, inclusive space that even the bin Ladens can find you know, at home in it. I thought, they don't get guuilty 're not guilty by association. Okay, but that's not really how they dealt with things like, you know, the Bolsheviks would think differently, wouldn't they? The blood of the oppressor ran straight through the Sars family. It was the direct lineage. L it's not like they didn't kill cousins. They killed sons and daughters.. Okay Yes. All right,ll off I'll give you another one. French Revolution. They were just killing anyone who smelled money Fed, Patriots. Yeah gotot to redistribute, brother got to redistribute. Welcome back to the Rust' history. They had but they weren't like the Bolsheviks, like and kill them in a basement. The French revolutionaries had a fucking sick, like chopping at the guillotty. They had a sick machine for it. It was a day out to go just doing it in basement. Well, they got the Ss family And things got a little bit out of hands, you know, they sort of they got the taste for blood, didn't they? And they just sort of rambled it. We all paried in the nineteen tenens, you know, on things like that happened, they just got out. wasn't Well everyone got very hungry, didn't they? becausecause then there was the famine. Is the famine after the Bolsheviks There's no f that the Soviet Union had much prosperity for all its people throughout its entire history Do know what? I love I just love so much. It'll never ever get boring to me, but there'll be like a celebrity like Selena Gomez or like Sabrina Carpenter, like footage of them crying and someone will superimpose them like as if they're crying about like the fall of the USSR I just think that's really good There came There was a really good one with Spr and Carter about the landlords. She was let me find it, let me find it. Well of course, because you were taking a landlord tos task last night, weren't you That was a common misconception. This was filmed on Friday morning when I was hung over at my art house. And they'd had a guest cancel and they text me at eight AM going and debate Samuel Leds and I was like, yeah, but they regret that. I fucking regretted it for most of it. He's such a nob I'm put a clip in here H his clip. I don't know who it is the guy that works to you. I just hope he doesn't kill himself like Danny Butcher, the thirty seven year old army veteran that killed himself after he got into loads of debath. Ive treatued one of your courses Samuel, I just hope he doesn't kill himself like Danny Butcher. I think people should check that out when you're you know, the vo of landlords, the voice of entrepreneurs and all the rest of it. I think they should check out Danny Butcher who killed himself. he got into thirteen thousand pounds worth. I I think I think we're going well beyond the actual debate here. I think what we're I just hope the guy doesn't kill himself. Busle. but this is what Lefty loons do. just come out with accusations and attack People's character rather than actually talking the it's in the BBC newews thing It' in the BBC Ns in the. It was a very serious accusation he made there. It's extremely serious. and you'll notice, he didn't deny it If I was to be accused of causing or being involved in the suicide of a British Army veteran I would probably say No I wasn't He didn't He called me a Lefty Lon. Lo is what he called it me Yeah Lefty Lon. I think this is also where I get a bit tired at the moment because that leads into another podcast we're going to be doing later and I am quite tired of the The Lefty Lon woke nonsense as an acceptable Rort to serious accusations or any kind of nuanced debate, the response from some people on the the snowflake right. Yeah or just, you know, lefty loons And it's like it is quite tiresome and I think it There's probably a wider, more astute point that someone much more clever than I am could make about just like where we are with conversation or talking to people I I think you've just gotten to a point where commentary that too many people doing it that are too poorly informed in the first place. and so you just fall back on tropes like that. you don't really know why someone's a lefty loon You don't really know what your response would be to the accusation that you were involved in the suicide or responsible for the suicide of a British Army veteran. We just call someone a lunatic rather than engageing with. The story was horrendous though. The story was horrendous. so it's like what this veteran he had like he gave him thirteen grand do one of his call. He was already in serious pretty severe PTSD. likeike he was a vulnerable person Bo town and then got into more debt to pay for one of these financial freedom courses. and then itted suicide and then when his sister W was having a go about it, Samuel Leeds sent her a legal letter threatening her with defamation charges And like I just I think that Samuel Leeds is a very poor caricature of the landlord class and the right wing commentor. I think you can have a serious conversation about the ethics of landlordism and making profit through being a landlord. I think you can have quite a serious intellectual discussion about it. You're not going to have it with Samuel Leds. He's a shock jock. He is like just a caricature I think on the commentary has gone too far point. I agree Like there was In that same debate, he was going, well what would you do? what would you? I'm not a housing expert. is what I said I don't know. I just game here to talk about that video.t I don't know how you'd fix the housing crisis. I don't pretend to be You've got lots of people who do pretend to be migration experts and all the rest of it. And it's a very nuanced issue that I think is given too much reduction in Oh it is It is always a very reductive conversation around it because the Greens were guilty of it as well, weren't they with the abolished Landlord's motion. But the headline of that was actually much more dramatic than the underlying proposition. But it just The I'm very much of the sort of the Eddie Demppsy schoolchool of thought, which is Well, he He says and I'm going to butcher it. back in his day you didn't have private landlords, you know, like if you did, it was very it was rare. Whereas Now he'd actually said, you know, you would hang that landlord a lot of the time, you'd see him hanging out by their shoes hang upside down outside the property. Do you remember him telling us that? I'm pretty sure it was on camera Oh, you wentn't there. It was down in the pub with Eddie and Mick Ah there you go Anyway. a week before I started, that. The what it is the problem that you've got is the flip the flip over the last forty or fifty years from having predominantly social housing and your landlord being quote unquote, the state to most of private dwellings being in the hands of private landlords. and a lot of them are ex social. I really do think one of the most reprehensible things that you can do is to put a social home a former council house onto the market Private. I don't know why or not replenish the stock as well. If you are going to do it. why it's allowed. I truly don't know why it's allowed. I think it's extraordinary. Ken Livingston had a very good approach to this. when he beforefore he was mayor of London, when he was leading called The Greater London Authority, was it called at the time It was still kindont of is, still GLA. What's the assembly now is it? Yeah, It was the Great London Authority before the devolved mayayor. on the Vauxwall waterfront Developers wanted to build there, and he was like, Yeahah but you're going to build forty percent of social housing They went on the vox waterfront, no, we can't do that. He was like, yeah, o We'll let you build the vax of waterfront but somewhere else within zone one and two, you've got to build forty percent social housing and they went, yeah, sold and then built it in East London. And I think that was ust Ken Livingston was very based on, yeah, you don't have to build social housing in quote unquote posh areas. You got to build it somewhere I think that's sort of been lost since. Well, yeah, I mean, if you look at the peeabody estates, they're beautiful around you see them a lot throughout Westminster. Westminster is actually one of the largest boroughs. Is it the largest borough? I think it might be Population dense?'m sure anyway it's one of them It's big one And if you look at the pee body estates that are around even near parliament or where we used to work around Exw withth Market, those peabodies were gorgeous, weren't they Do you remember? A lot of them trust houses as well, right? Yeah. Guinness G Guinness Trust is big around Bromley iss the largest Oh isn' it But what's the metric for that U a physical area U Croyon has the test population Really Yeah Oh, you believe that It's large though, Westminster. You know, sometimes you'll be down in Paddington and you can't quite believe you're still in Westminster Paddton's, Yeahah of course it is. Yeah Let that sink in I I agree with Andrew Rosendel, the reform youKampP for Romford had this big campaign a couple of years ago about reinitiating the historic boroughs of London that Padd and that was one of like the big points that Paddington should not be in Westminster should be its own borough. And I can get behind that. So well, I don't think the residents of Paddington would want that because they have the lowest countnteril taxry Westminster Yeah. I thought it was Kenson Chelsea. No, no, Westminster is extraordinarily low. Wandsworth is also really low I guess it was conservative R for a very long time That consonservative run now. It is. had a brief labor. That's right. life four years. twenty two Yeah, Yeah yeah, and now else. No overall control Tory minority. It's interesting is Andy Burnham, he's been talking again about the land value tax. That was on the front of the Guardian on Saturday, I think it was the Guardian. And It was it the mail on Sunday? One in the same. Oh well singer, singer. And The land value tax is very interesting, isn't it I do think that I mean, the council tax bans, when you actually drill into it and you conceive of what you pay in compared to what you pay out, which by the way, I don't think it is an effective metric. It is extraordinary You've got, I mean, like I was Bad D or something like that for like a studio flat What the hell? What the hell? I mean, also council tax being a tax that tenants pay is a strange phenomenon in itself. It should be something that the property owner pays along with property taxes. So this was I was speaking to actually this morning um, a rightright wing yimby guy like pretty center e likeory reform in the Middle Eastter hous y and he was saying that the land value tax is actually the only fair tax but it's a bit of a misnomer to call it a land value tax because it's actually taxing property. and it's on that property owner rather than the tenants. And he think that's really Kensington toownhouse should not be paying less council tax than a studio flat in Blackpool. And the land value tax, even though it's not land is the only fair way. so it's prettyret wide consus of Maybe that's where the misnomer comes from because I saw a few farming groups getting quite upset about it Maybe that's the Yeahah, of course But they're always upset using. They don't get as I'm typically on their side. No Yeah, they didn't really have much of a when you comparered it compared the Irish tractor protests to the ones you had last year in Westminster a lot more A lot more disruption than the Irish ones. because you sh off of the motorway. Yeah because you park them in the middle of the fucking motoray, not the middle of w No, it was just a slow protest Yes. They didn't pack them. It was just a slow protest. Abiley Millle stuck in tol And there was Abby Lee Miller of dance mums. Yeah. there were some great Yes. there was some great.. She got stuck in a farming in her like wheelchair just fucking driving up the motorway in front of the tractors. She was gonna be lately. For some reason she was in Countter Glare and She was there Wow And Yeah, shut off the motorways. The whole country couldn't move for a week. D you see that good news from off Gem this morning Another two hundred pound on your energy bills. Energy bill. That wipes out the reduction that Labor brought in Yeah, we just need to let the energy companies fail, remove the subsidies and then buy them for a pound. Do Do you ever get? O to sell them off again, that's It day personally. A any of those bies successful at what they do. Like off gem, off what, off com. Are you ever like You never look at them and go, they really you know, the only fans come, only fans what? On fans jam it's just but they're so toothless. They're so spineless. why? why are you allowed to put up your energy bills? Why do I? The regulation is always favoring a private market in the first place? Yeah Iuc could invade Iran, did I? Yeah exactly. I think offcO They've been piled on with responsibilities and not had the proportionate fund being l last. seven or eight years. they've just lumped with The my safety responsibility is not have proportionate funding increasase I think that their' very core I think they're They're doing their job in terms of ensuring political balance on broadcast and ensuring there's no harmful material on broadcast I think that's about to be one of your I think at the very's about to be one of your bad takes. Many twelves classic. I don't know. I don't think And you cannot tell me in the er or where news has been moving into entertainment that OcOM have controlled that They have not at all.com They' granted. right, I'm going to give you another example, Andy. I'm going to squish you right into the ground here.. What has been allowed to happen with Global and Baer buying up local radio stations and syndicating their broadcasts, which is defunded local journalism up and down the country and allowed a lot of people to get away with it actually Yoshi from the Mill, Manchester Mill has written a brillant piece about Andy Burnham in that he doesn't reference this specifically, but he does talk about the dearth of local journalism and that's why quote unquote Manchesterism has thrived so well in Westminster outlets because there's not people on the ground investigating it. Anyway, point being, OcOM has allowed those licenses to transfer away from local broadcasting, away from local journalism and that has' left us in dire straits. they not empowered to do it L they don't actually have the teeth Kango is paying this guy.. They don' have the teet. That's the issue. I think with the powers that they actually are empowered two. enforced. I think they do a fine job. I just don't think they have the proportionate funding or the proportion empowerment by the government at the day. to go after what they see. I think we say or what are' saying, you know? I do think like when you look at how their penalty system works the investigations that they do for broadcasters Ultimately, they take too long to come to decisions. They Because of the news cycle, because of the way that television operates now, the way that radio operates, all of these institutions will have done twentyenty other breaches of standards that OcOM are meant to be holding up B the time the OcM come to a decision for the first one. you know, so they're always chasing their tail and they never have enough like all they can do like the fines that I think if they if they handed out the fines more regularly, were if they were stricter with how they handed out the fines, then you wouldn't continue to breach. I remember running that thousand pounds to a billionaire No know, halt right there I was when I was editing that show and I was responsible for that three hours of live broadcast of what went out You're responsible for the legal of that, for dumping it, for reporting it, for correcting on eriror. The prospect of getting one hundred twenty thousand pound vine was huge and you had a lot of pressure. I had a lot of pressure from my editors to you cannot get that vine because actually it could have potential. I mean, they could swallow the cost. but if you look at that individual station would it would have put them in financial peril News companies do not make money J just point of fact, they do not make money. Most of them run a deficit and you have a billionaire benefactor who just enjoys the influence, and that's why they continue to fund it broadcast Broadcast is on such a nice edge And if you do continue if you got five one hundred twenty thousand pound fines likely would go bust talking more about the serial offenders that If it was a concern like how many how many preaches are we talking with TB newews at this point? They've been alive for four years, five years. Did they breach with me? I can't remember you? Was it brereeach Eine wororth checking. I think I think it was though, wasn't it U So they've got categorization of against the rules versus against the spirit of the rules. I think you might have been against the spirit of the rules So serial offending companies There is a part of that that you then start to question. if you work in media or if you're a consumer of media, you look at several finds that people like top of the dome, GB newews get. everyvery couple of months they'll get a fine for something that was said on air that starts to demonstrate a non willillingness to change and a happiness to shoulder the cost of doing that kind of media. and having a billionaire benefactor that wants to have the influence and the power and the sway in British political system Every now and again, if I get A couple of a ten thousand pound fine or a hundred thousand pound fine, that's the cost of doing business. Can I tell you Can I disagree with you? Okay. They have cut back. extraordinary. They have really cut back gone stringent on what they pay the contributors. They don't have taxis now when they were offering them very early on the original salaries that were off to people, they're now halving that because they simply do not have the money. They spent a lot of money at the beginning. To me, that's indicative of a company that is watching the purse strings. And I think if you did continue to find them over and over and over again, that billionaire benefactor is not going to say it's the cost of doing business. They're going to turn around and say, would you stop breaching on air because I can't afford to keep bailing you out Do what I mean I do think there is a tipping threshold. I understand what you mean that yeah, if you're only going to be given So say you've got one finer year you could write that off and go zzer That's just that's the cost of doing business. If you were getting one a month, we're an entirely different situation. No, but back to your point of it that they Oc themselves. What brought us ono this? Why are we talking about? I'm not sure, but can I also just caveat before you get to the offcom point? I'd also say that the online, which is not regulated is a lot of the problem because you've got broadcasters like GB News who are competing with, say, Piers Morgan Uncensored, who does not need to abide by any of the offcM rules can you know and can garner millions of abuse because they're not tied to that legislation. O I would agree with you that OCOom needs to be expanded and funded better and it should be covering online I think one of the issues with the implementation of the like we're not going against the politics of theillline safety, but the implementation of the act as it was passed You had this staged almost three year process where they were going to define after the act was passed, they were going to define the harms and what was technically a violation of the Online Safety Act after the act was passed. And then once the harms were defined then they would give the appropriate teh and funding to the regulatory body, which they decided was offgone. So you had this period of about eighteen months to two years where the online safety Act passed. and the harms had been defined and the harms were happening on Titter, let's say, X. The regulatory body didn't have the funding, the teeth, nor the remit to go after those homes so you had this issue when then they were given the remit, they weren't really given the funding, but they were given the regulatory capacity to go after them. He had this massive backlog of harms that was dreting back about eighteen months. So then they weren't upstate. When you saw at the start of this year when you had the Grops Nudify stuff with the child sexual abuse material. It wasn't specifically OCom that were able to solve that. It took Liz Kendall, the seecret ofate for technology to send a letter and intervene. Like I think there is a real issue with the regulatory framework and the implementation of the onlo safet. I think you're right there. they were asking as well for there were figures asking for impact assessments of, you know, it's like wt think there needs to be done have that. like, you know, you know, we can't pull plug that. I mean, you could say as a spectator Well, the impact of someone having a neudified Grock image of them published online would probably be detrimental They'd be very upset by that. They would probably be quite hurt. Yeah. But that was the issue. It wasn't Ocom's fault as a function. was just government doesn't work quickly enough to regulate these things. Yeah. whichich is interesting because that really leads us in perfectly to Tonti Bur. Chiny Lang Tontie to you and I Tonti to you and I. That was So Tony Blair has written a piece today for the well, it's published yesterday, for the Blair Institute TBI and he has talked about the future of governance, the future of the Labour Party. One of the reasasonons why that is a caveat is because he talks about long termism and he talks about how it takes too long to get things done and what is actually the vision that we want to have because we don't have a vision as a Labour partarty We keep deviating and we're sort of getting by rather than actually constructing for the future. U She kind of do should we try to pick a key takeaway and we can Del those pom bombs out. I didn't get my pom boms out. Oh he loved it. He was like this. William Hagig, Tony Blair, Hell All the reports he's ever been involved in. So another one, my point was the Chill ca one of my favorites. V good. T Barious got change. It's a huge organisation. We' given them his full government name. did you see that? I think that they've got some extremely talented people who are working there because of the funding and There's this instinct, especially in civil society to reject anything that comes from the TBI just because It's got Tony Blair in the name. I thought this essay was a Not a great essay. I don't think it was partularly actful and I think people will talk about it for the next couple of days, but I don't think it will have any long term impact on the thinking of the Labour Party or the government or whomever I think that historically the TBI has been quite good. specifically with the Blairire Hague reports in twenty twenty three, I thought they were actually very, very good. and they had some really talented people. who would never normally work together working together on them. So I think Tony Blair devaluue that output of the Blair Hate reports a couple of years ago with this essay where it just comes across It's just slot If you diskill it, its this is what I would do if I was in this position and I'd get rid of net zero. It's not even true because if Tony Blair was Prime Minister twenty tenens the twenty twentyenties and he'd done his whole Revolution the partarty twenty years later, he would have been a huge advocate of Net Zero as the industrial change of that era. I genuinely think that if he was Prime Mister now He'd love Net zero. So I don't even think it's representative of what he would do if he was PM. I think he's just being a slightly contraded in his interest. What do you mean? like would got he would have really leaned into nuclear and building renewables and that sort of thing? I think he would have seen it as So then he didn't have to lean into the industrial strategy part of the. That is industrial strategy. So he would't have to get into the weeds with the unions. He would focus on that that is market facing I think'd to be you'd have to be in the weeds of the unions though, because all of those workers would be unionised to be working on those nuclear plantes. But he'd avoid the kind of complications. he did when he think I' just being antagonistic to what you want.. like when he was Prime Minister last time, he sort of ignored those cord demands from the TUC and the affiliated unions and went down a more market facing what it's like to be a worker about the minimum wage, etcetera. which the unions were actually against at the time I think that's what he would have done now Unions ranting minimum wage. Yeah, they were ranty minimum wage because the minimum w the way that he implemented it, the minimum wage would then become a maximum wage. As you've seen now, people o Yes, I actually have seen that before. Yeah A lot of people saw it as well now you're just capping pay for a lot of people at whatever it was at the time And I don't really subscribe to that, but a lot of unions are against it because of the maximum wage angle. Do you know what would be qu this is a complete caveat, but what would be quite a fun thing for us to do is every time we interview a politician to ask them what the minimum wage is M That would be quite good. That's like you're asking p of milk. Yeah.. What is the minimum wage? Its twelve ten I thought it was twelve seventy one Bood plans because there's an apprenticeship wage There's the under sixteen minimum wage. sixteen, seventeen minimum wage, eighteen to twenty one minimum wage and the minimum wage minimum wage. then you got the London wighted minimum wage as well Come on The living weight and the London living weight So you've actually got I know I'm trying to find it here and I'm really livingge Yeah It was the privilege live one twelve seventy one it is. Is it really home. It was twelve seventy one Um eighteen to twenty, ten pound eighty five. sixteen, seventeen eight pound Apprentices eight pound twenty and over twelve seventy one. You do wonder, don't you why eighteen year olds aren't entitled to that twelve seventy one? Well, that was one of the great concessions with the business lobby at the very end of the Employment Rights bill before it came the Employment Rights Act They were planning to standardise the minimum wage then you just got single minimum wage Rather than H banded or banded I understand the apprenticeship banding though I don't. I think apprenticeship wage should be minimum wage If you're hiring for minimum wage labour, you're hiring without experience hiring in an apprenticeship, you hiring without experience in my view It depend okay Can I correct what I'm saying? Because what I said in my head was different to what I said out of my mouth I don't think the employers should pick up the extra. I think it should be government funded. Well's apprenticeship levy, isn't it? Yeah, I suppose? No, they are reforming. So it would be up to twelve seventy one say, but the government would foot that bill Yeah. Do you understand' say? Sevenenty percent, I think is. Yeah And sorry, anyway But yeah Tonsy Blair On your point of if he was in power now and he would have been getting behind Green indndustrial revolution In the piece, he references the next Industrial Revolution several times But it's an AI revolution he's talking about Why do we think he's want to scrap Net zero. hamming up the possibilities and potential of AI It seems like the whole thing is very much like whatever To me, it's whatever institutions are giving us money to write essays like this, I'm going to cheerlead for them I think it's quite unndignified for a Prime Minister then to criticize his old party when he's just lobbying for Yes. And there's two simplistic arguments, I think you could give like two sides of it Simplistic argument number one that I think you would hear a lot around Westminster is, well, AI is happening, whether you like it or not. And so he's just explaining, this is what the future is. We've got to get on board. We've got to adapt The other simplistic argument is And actually Tony Blair has been very heavily involved in the like what is there to be gained here? Who are we lobbying on behalf of? And actually like a lot of the lines around AI You know, these are lines that BI have been trailing for quite some time in various other press releases and reports. So is this just is this a way to sort of sneak those lines out under the quite thinly veiled guise of I'm actually just criticising the Labour Party so everyone read this. None of you read my AI sta, so I' sneak into my critique about the Labour Party. it's an elder statesman giving his prognosis on why the country is collapsing pretend when you the veil, it's just the who's who of donors to the TBI. I think I think that's That goes back to my original point about Blair Hague reports were welcomed because they were well, no wayit It plays in the Elder Statesmanning. they were welcomeed because they were weful out. they were wel. Give us a thumbs up in the comments if you love that Hag rep Hague report. No But they were welful and they were what you would expect an Elder statesman to intervene on because they were genuinely very good. but then this kind of We miss Rushed essay It sort values any interventions he will make from now there's sooneost the boy who cried Woof in the sense that now that he's done this, the next thing that I look out for from Tony Blair I assume will be of a substandard to this. and then it keeps decreasing and then you go, o Who fucking cares what Tony Blair thinks. The lines that people really went after as well was what he'd said about West Streeting and Andy Burnham. And I thought that was rather amusing that what Tony Blair had clearly intended to do with this essay was to give a quite like nuanced, reasoned argument of we really need to debate policy in the Labour Party and figure out who we are and what we want to do instead the Westminster reaction was streeting mentions. neeither of them. Do you know who else was saying that? John McDonald Oh really after the local elections, you said, we don't need the leadership election We need to do a proper postmort to really consider what our policy position is and where we're going to go from here. And he was It was on channel four or something. I think he did yeah, it was channel four because he sat in aircle for some reason on College Green. Oh that's so channel four as much Yeah It's like o, okay guys. And he did a group thing. And he was sat next to Michael White. U no, Sam White, Sam White, my white son. who used to be K his Stm's Chief staff which is basically arguing and calling a moron for forty five minutes It's the politics Joe Cast John MDonald has a similar position about the policy development and the really Reinding what the Labour Party is about there. He said, didn't he that they had come that they were governing soft left. and which he said wasn't, okay, right, this is a line I picked out that I was interested in Are we really prioritising economic growth essential not just for prosperity but for social justice if there is a slew of policies we're implementing which might restrict it I thought that was interesting So then I was like trying to ruminate about what policies Starmmer had brought in And the biggest thing I landed on was student loan reform, dropping the pledge around reforming it poo students carrying the financial burden for longer. I think that's one of the Sorry, you did I line that up properly about what I was talking about Yeah o, fine. Are we looking at you like you've got ten heads? You did a little bit yeah. you did. I'm trying to yeah,' trying to make the point about what Blair is saying here and what I think Starmer has done that the evidenceces that, which is that, you know, you bring in a sort of short term policy or you don't bring it in at all and it actually doesn't lead to long term economic prosperity. So the student loan reform I thought was interesting. Welfare tightening, I thought was another one. I was thinking about the pIit payments, which obviously they didn't bring in, but there is quite a lot going through the DWP that is not quite making the headlines, but restricting pIit payments means that P a lot of people up and down the country are frightened to say move jobs because they might lose access to their pIP payments if they have to refile. for them and or they don't want to retrain in case it might mean that they might lose access to it. The long and the short of it is, you've got a lot of people who are worried that they could be out of a job because of these p payments reforms. That's not great. He was talking on radio four earlier on and actually saying how the Things like pIP payments were too high how we were not because so many people are on in work benefits that we're not encouraging growth in the country But but you know what, though, like he's not wrong in one perspective. like there One one of where he would be correct is it's ludicrous that you have, I think it's around thirty eight percent of people claiming universal credit are in work. That is totally nonsensical. Of course that's not encouraging economic growth. You know You need the private sector to pay those wages. A lot Well, that's one thing. kind looking at a problem and saying, well the Obvious solution to this is to just benefits Yeah. Like we're just not going have that many people on in work benefits. If they're in work, they shouldn't be on benefits, full stop. But the in work benefits as well that probably referencing there are things like childcare. So you offset that so say a couple want to go to work, they use the new childcare that's been allocated by the government, which obviously is brilliant. I'm not saying it's not brilliant But the government are picking up the cost for you to go and receive a salary. That is not economic benefit. I think the issue was if you were to just cut the ink benefits, you'd find more people on out of work benefits. Yeah because they'd look at that and go, well, better value for money If I just don't work, I agree And then they g on to that, which I don't think is particularly well addressed in this essay nor the more general kind of right wing and the Labour Party center right of the political spectrum commentary about in work benefits. And we never talk about that either when like say a big industrial plant is going under. And you say, well, this is how much it costs the government to keep this open. And it goes, well, how much is going to cost the government if you shut it because you're got to put all those people in out of work benefits And Well one of his arguments is about re industrializing the UK. Yeah. in the North. I't it's not like he was the prim Minister were right after the Torory government twisted the knife a little bit more. It's not like he was in power for ten years after the industrialization and he could have done anything about it. But this is it. Yes. But if he'd done it, he would have done it with PFIs it it's also again, when you're turninged around and saying that we don't we should not be doing drive towards net zero, That's the one thing that could potentially re industrialize the whole of the United Kingdom, but then deciding to have one side of a policy where we need to re industrialize the other side of the policy saying All of the industry that we could potentially do in the next twenty to thirty years, we need to stop doing now I' just continue with oil and gas It it seems insane a prime minister. Now it's not like a thinker that's saying this. It's a former prime minister of the country. He was in charge for a very long time. He should know exactly how these things work it just seems ignorant you know. I think it's Sorry Frn that kind of elder stateatesmentpoint, I think it's very interesting to map John Major, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown's contributions post offffice because Tony Blair has been pretty involved, especially during the Corbn period. you know there was talk about him trying to set up a rival party to the Labour partarty akin to the SDP. He really hated Corbn And like he's been very involved in the kind of wonk sphere of Westminster Whereas Gordon Brown, I think it's been a lot more and John Major' not done much, but C Braespe has been a lot more decisive and targeted and L. betteret thought out in his interventions about child poverty, about House of Lord's reform, about Sort of things you would welcome from a long term former Chancellor and a former Prime Minister? Well, yeah, Tony Bless set up a think tank, Gordon Brown set up multibanks. so Mhm. on is? I give be another one of my economic little sorry and I'morry, this is back on my slower policies that might restrict Cing guys. Oh ye I thought about no asset reform I always assumed there would be which it kind of was, I mean there was yeah, but there hasn't been a focus really on inheritance tax. I know that they did that to the farmers That was actually really small in terms of what I thought having read the Resolution Foundation's papers for the last few years, what I thought Torston Bell was going to do when he got to the treasury, I thought it was going to be a lot more expansive inheritance tax. and And I thought they would bring in a land value tax, which now obviously Andy Berner is talking about, which we brought up But the asset ownership hasn't been reformed, meaning there's a deeper cononcentration at the top. So you're not you're not You've allowed this like continuous like usurping of wealth ps because there's been no asset reform, it's all being hoarded at the top. And so there is no up of mobility if you're at the bottom. know And it's sort of like over fooccus as well that the party has with house building. Now I'm going to get a lot of heat for this. Try and accept this in a nuanced, balanced try. And please The obsession with house building. is actually not particularly helpful if you are the sort of the lower middle classes Not even working classes, but the lower middle classes and under Because attaining one of those houses that are built is virtually impossible unless you are given a deposit. because there's no government run scheme, say to help you accrue a deposit or help you get. I always believe there should be a government ninety five percent mortgage. If you've proven that you can pay your rent every single month, you should be eligible for a government back loan to buy one of these houses because these schemes don't exist. The house building, proposals that they're doing, the blitzing of the planning regulation, it does only benefit the wealthy. It doesn't benefit the poor. No upward mobility The last one I would just say as well, I was thinking about focus on economic growth. like Rachel Reeves' L mantra is if you can grow the economy then everyone grows with it, right That doesn't account for any of the shocks that we've had. L it doesn't account for, say the Iran warar, for example whichich is ridiculous because they were in shadow government when the Cervatives endured the Ukraine shock. So it's like, well, you've seen this happen and you've seen how that wipes up headroom. So why was your economic policy to copy that blueprint? It's you know Booy thinking you guys it's even like without those shocks, The philosophy of just growth for growth's sake and it will Right, it will raise all boats is not going to happen, especially if you're looking at how the economy is structured people on top to accrue more wealth and for inequality to become more entrenched So if you have, particularly when it comes to the AI strategy, things like AI being a driver of growth in the United Kingdom is just a complete fallacy. It is not a high employer. It creates a lot of wealth for a very small group of people, i. e, the owners of AI companies. Yeah. And the people that work there will get a salary. But it doesn't Well, there won't be a lot of people working there. think that's the principle of AI, isn't it? So where's the growth in that? Where's the growth in it? Well GI increases GDP from a tax intake from that number That's Well they would probably wouldon't even tax them give them tax Exactly Tax write offs because they're like h.. It's nice having you here guys. It's bizarre looking I know I wang on about Ireland all the time, but like the entire Irish economy while I was growing up was off that background of, well, the tech companies are here. they're paying billions upon billions ofars euros of pax. We had a case where Apple that only got decided in twenty twenty four After the Irish government appealed against the European courts, that Apple owed us thirteen billion pounds in tax, in unpaid tax, and the Irish government defended Apple in the appeal. Because the whole philosophy was, well, what they did pay in tax was encouraging growth. All of these numbers about how Ireland has such a high GDP per capita It's all skewed because of these multinationals that don't contribute a massive amount to it. I mean, If they went, it would be a massive gap in the economy, but putting your entire economic strategy into that basket is foolish. And particularly when you're looking at like theM the American government as it is now, when they can turn around and say, I don't like the fact that when it came to the tariffs last year, I don't like the fact that that pharmaceutical company and that tech company are paying their tax revenues to that European government We're going to take them out you've lost billions billions of tacks. But that's what the UK is doing now You should be looking at things that as you said, if you're looking at Ukraine from three years ago, four years ago. and saying, okay, we should be looking at the mistakes of that government there and how do we improve on that? You should be looking at how economies in Europe, your nearest neighbor has made its entire economy completely beholden to American tech and American pharmaceuticals And rather than looking at that and saying, no, we're not going to do that, they're saying We're going to do the new version of that It's insanity I were column for a newspaper last year where it was the same day that Rachel Reeves had announced The economy had grown by zero point one percent or something marginal like that The large Mc Grill had been taken off the Weerspoons menu. because of rising meat costs and it was unsustainable for for them to put X amount of steaks on a plate in weatherpoons for eight pound, ninety nine or wh wherever it was And I think there is this gap in Westminster thinking where people don't fuc and care if the economy iss growning zer point one percent. and Rachel Reeves have said it, They care if the large mac grill has been taken off the menu because of costing. And I think there is this sort of delta between what Westminster see as good growth. versus what people outside of Westminster see is good growth. And it goes back to, you know typically the conservatives but still the labour government have seen growth as being GDP rising Whereas You know, we've had GDP rising for the last twenty years, but wages have been stagnating And I think it's that personal aspect of in their lives, arere they seeing the growth next And how we fix that I don't know, but I think there is delta between public sees growth and what Westminster seees growth. You don't feelar that, you don't care, you Yeah It also it makes you feel I hate using the term gaslt because it's not quite the right term, but you know You feel a sense that you're being lied to because you're being told over and over again The economy iss doing really well, people are much better off and you're looking around your surroundings say thinking to yourself like, well I've actually started buying the kind of like the Aldi like own brand butter because I can't buy the Lur perk anymore. So it doesn't feel any different to me. It actually feels a lot worse. You know, I think what would be I'm really glad I don't have Monzo because you you can do like at the end of the year, it'll tell you what you spent where. Yeah Imagine Imagine the deirth in like what you spent like on the same thing four years ago compared to now Bow your mind. Well, that's one of the things I think is actually going to be an issue for this labour government, even you know, they've what years left before the next general election has to happen Even if the next three years are of economic prosperity, we have the best three years we've had all centy, etcera etc The mail deal is not going to go back to three pounds s still going to be three pound sixty and you're still going to have people who are nostalgic for that three pound build deal and go I don't care if we're doing really well as a country, I'm still paying sixty pence more for my mhotal. Is that the new Freddie, do you think Friday I think it's a very It's a good marker, isn't it? I think it is in the sense that it was three pounds for years and years and years and years and years. F of actually had more inflation than the mail deal has. But I think that just things like that are just going to be nostalgic for people and they'll blame the labour government instinctively, even though Really it's not thereful and it is down to global issues and the predecessors and all the rest of it. m It could just be more radical as well. They's set of a voluntary price cap scheme, but the voluntary price cap scheme is going to be at the prices as they are now, not the prices they were mini recession caused by the pandemic, which is what I think people will jit about Well, I think You know, if you look back at sort of like the beginning of Osborne and Cameron's austerity, I think that the reason there wasn't, I mean, is this is really broad strokes But the reason there wasn't revolt, the reason people weren't out on the street protesting or you know Furious was because we were told you just got to tighten your belt for a little bit and then we will fix it and it will go back to normal. And I think we've been in a state of limbo now for fifteen years of well sixteen years of O when's it going to go back to normal Each juncture, each change of administration we're being told you're going to have to tighten your belt a little bit more, a little bit more. You know att this point, the belt doesn't fit Like I think when Andrew Bailey came out, he was probably the most ill timed intervention of you just need to tighten your belt a little bit. Do not take a pay rise from your employer because it's going to contribute to inflation. And I think at that point imagine saying that I know And everyone just sort of stepped back and went Are you taking the piss? L we've been doing this now. life has been on hold for a lot of people for over a decade. To tell me now I can't even take a pay rise to keep up with the pace of you know, prices price rises It just felt so out The guy wasn't even out of touch, the guy wasn't even Touatching. The guy The guy doesn't know feel I I think do you think there's a bit of it as well when it comes to like Austerity politics that We've grown up through austerity. We've known nothing but austerity. And so things like that just don't They don't wash the same way as they might on someone in their sixties or seventies But someone in their sixties or seventies has already had the luxury of being in their thirties and forties when the times were good Whereas we've never had a time where the times were good There's nothing Nhing feels like it's getting better. Nothing feels like it's staying the same They would remember it getting worse. They would remember a childhood of the seventies and then subsequent financial crash You know, decad later nineties two thousands. It didn't really feel like that in Britain though until kind of the end of the nineties. I like, you know, you didn't really have There. It didn't really kind of like The pace of change was very quick and rapid and it didn't happen until quite late. You know, early nineties you're of in like You're in recession So I take the point, the point I would make is that peoplee in the sixties and seventies have always had an appreciating asset of which they can lend again Yes which is you know it's totally inconceivable actually to large fays of this country that when a young person runs out of money and has like says I can't afford my rent anymore. they can't borrow off of, you know, they can't take a little slice of their equity out of their home. They can't struggle a little bit and pull up their bootstraps. They just actually have zero pounds in their account. Like The idea of living month to month, paypacket to paypacket where there's actually no that there's nothing underneath that. is quite You you know what I mean? It's a new phenomenon. It's a new phenomenon, I be. I think Bringing it back to that original Tony Blay report In fairness to Tonti He was a long term prime Minister. A lot of st he did in that first and the first off of his second term have' led were even going up for the entire newabor period like the Aquity Act as Certainly had a huge impact on the way that employment has worked over the last fifteen years. Yes, we are really very much feeling the long tail of those PFIs in the NHS. We very much are But like the Supreme Court for example, that's a long term is in policy.. I'm being deadly serious. That is something that we have really felt the long term consequences of. But the positly, Supreme Court I think is a good thing And you could never imagine Kissed armor establhing something like the Supreme Court Qqualities act You just can't I don't know whether it's because news has changed or the political sphere has changed to be very kind of twenty for seven based I think' I twenty four hours new cycle has just broken everyone's brains. You just couldn't imagine him doing something so large that would a In fifteen years time the Politics Joe podcast would be talking about it? Yeah good way of putting it. You just can't I just Apart from maybe the employment rightsct, but even that isn' as impactful as the Equualityities Act, the Equuality Act or the Supreme Court or you know's PFIs and all the rest of it. you just can't See it Jess Phillips has had a good interview, isn't she As she? O or Mmandeleny Yeah, she didn't want Mandison appointed. Oh I'm glad that she's put it on the record now year after it's happened. I know, notot when she was a minister of the state. I really have I have zero interest in All of this I never said I would didn't want it at the time sort of chatter. I' no interest in An only person I've got time for David Lamy who actually put it on the record at the time in the documents that have been released that it's I believe the quote was Disastrous decision So I do actually back him David Lamy V as no It is notuts that as the foreign Scretary, you've raised concerns about an ammbassadorial appointment. It's just how it should. That's why they wouldn't take it through though, would they? They were like make sure he doesn't know. when they were putting forward, what's his name? Oh M Doyle. Yeah tellle for a second. You you know I was going to call him Mr. Purple suit,? He always has a purple suit. Yeah, when they were telling it ye. Don't let him know about that. What you He's got a force wongy. sort of indicated David Lammy based if they've gone these two reons. I don't think you can call someone based for having a fairly normal point of view, that like a friend friend of a global paedophile. What's happened to our brains we're like but like he did object to the paedophile. Yeah basaseis for this guy.'s P pedophile friend, sorry, ye and she can lose hon him. Uh Steal them? Yeah. I think he will because I don't think his CLP will reselect him. Sy hasn't attended a singleLP meeting since the general election. a year and a hal. Would be for reseelection? can they not do with the change of the NEC? Can they not just do automatic appointment If you raise I can't remember the percentage if you can raise a certain percentage of objection at your CLP executive committee Really? It removes the automatic reseelection Yeah. Mr. Morgan's not around anymore to override that, so Kist Armour goes to a CLP meetings for context. The Prime Minister goes to a CLP meetings and David Lami. I've been told hasn't gone to a single one since the general election. Really? Do you think that's because he was upset that Tottennam might be relegated so he didn't want to be in a vr campaign in Tottenam eith in the locals told Obviously Davidey wants to get touch. Do you do you think that that would have been? yeah, that's really interesting. So he didn't go out on the doorstep? loads of other places in London and up and down the country didn't go out and taught him in his home seat Jese I've been told So's we always been told. Starer didn't either Stom's the fucking prrimeinister. No, no. I don't think that that's unusual. Al also Stom' Storm I would say would be a home to local election. I don't think David Labby wouldn't. I't know who he might be. Maybe in Tottenham to be fair. In Tottenham. Sadik was out door knocking. Personally Yeah ye. knocking them doors. I know that there are a couple of MP's who would quite like David, Let me see sitting lab and pease who were elected at the twenty twenty four election on a bit of a mser I know that they I could see him being Stoke Newington replacing Diana but is Diane going to run if Diane runs again? I think if Diane gives I don't think she had run again. I think if there wasn't any controversy around her selection in twenty twenty four, she would have sped't she? Yeah She only ran out of spike. No she did She categorically did. Yeah. Good for her. You fuckking. No, I think that's Zacholanskys. Turn around one day and say Like the great Black woman to speak at the dispatch box. like Fuck off now Can't do that. I don't want to run, but now you don't want me to run. I want to run. so I'm gonna run. Yeah Dead right. She's dead fucking right, fair play to her U but no, I think that's Hackney What is it? Hackney North in Stoke Newington I want to agree with you. I think it is. ye. I think that's going to be Palanskpe country forevermore I could see him retiring his DMP to that. That's where he' pay his counc tax isn't I is if Ifone someone told me that he was considering the Greyman church Greater Manchester mayayoral by election. I think I can't see that. Peacock. Yeah. Greenate run. You might remember when we had him It was either shortly before or shortly after he was elected as the and As the leader of the Grain parody and we asked him if he was going to resign in his assembly seat He said, no, I'll keep that for the time being. I won't run I don't think he'd want to be part of an LTA again. I can't imagine Well he did say that he wasn't going to take any by election opportunities. He was just going to campaign until the next election. because that was what Green Party needed most is that a leader that was on the ground getting out there and spreading the mess.. See, this is why I think that Farage would want to be suspended from the house because he's looking at P plans cl he can go anywhere he wants, any day of the week to drum up support. Forarash wants to be able to take whatever donation he wants and not have to actually know, do you have to declare for Proably do feelond an assembly, don't you? Yeah, Yeahah sure atly. Like any councillor has to declare for us. But do you know what I mean? you know, that it would really benefit Nigel if he didn't have to. T off if youan again wa And what to the King's speech did You're a Can I say somethingifying about the drinking? I promise you I'm going toop talking about this. It's just because I saw Darren Jones talking about it the other day. Oh the drinking. The drinking in Parliament thing. You've got another take. Can I say I promise you this is not a slight on you, Andy, like I promise you're not. I'm actually talking about this tangily because I can Can I give like my perspective genuinely as someone who both works in and around Westminster Can I when I'm working in around Westminster I do I can understand why MPs have a drink on the estate Mostly because of the bizarre voting legislation system that means that they have to hang about till ten eleven PM often And they do start their day at nine AM So I kind like, okay. I truly don't think the Westminster Bble conceive how divisive this issue is, the rest the rest of the country look at it and they just say That is so outrageous. I can't like and I think it's To me, it's one of those stories where I look at it and I go It's inconceivable to me that you cannot conceive that this makes the public really, really angry for very valid reasons Do you see what? Yeah. I think yes, but a caveat on that is Oh here we go. I think that a lot of the electorate would be very angry if they knew the amount of expenses that MP's got. They got to expense their London flat, they get to expense their travel et., etcetera. Je Blog Joe Blog doesn't want have a car Job bl They' live in a cave. Yeah likely I don't But people don't want their MPs to have a good time. I don't want that either. but I think a hundred percent A lot of people don't have a good time while they're at the job though Be here You shouldn't be on the beers while you're at your job. Can I just say something on the expenses It is totally like I think you absolutely, if you live in a constituency that you cannot commute to one hundred percent should you should have a subsidizedondon London property because you can't I'm sorry, you can't pay for two properties conceivably. L you know you if you're going on a base level of like say someone's got a mortgage somewhere, they then can't rent in London on top of that. they can't. So I understand that. The thing that really really tooakes the biscuit for me, people who live commutable distances having a London flat Oh really annoys me. Like people who live in Essex and Kent, where you and Surrey where you've got some of the best available commutes. Hertfordshire so easy to get to from central London terminals. and I mean Kent Surrey in Essex, you can get from literally within spitting distance of the House of Parliament, you can get on the train and go back home and yet they have a London flat That is Outrageous Outrageous. Ian Blackford used to have a mad commute on a Thursday, didn't he? Ian Blackford was very deserving of a London. That l on the is Sky. L what to do He took a plane, didn't he to the mainland? Plane to the mainland. Jose drove from mainland to Glasgow? Yeah, and then either got the train or flew It was mental what this guy was doing. Or was it the train Sorry, Abdeen, I think he would go like he was his island on the west. Yeah, but he was going like fucking mental. likeike on I think he would often come from Inverness. I think that was his main So hed drive to Inverness, fly down from Inverness. I think so, yeah. Yeah. mud commute. to get in for your casework on the Thursday, you know what I mean Mad stuff call abiles. How long are we gone for there, Benathy Wow. that was a tree for use. What a bananza All right, see ya Anmore finally this is this Patrotons. I think we've got an interview with Alan Milban tomorr from the DWP I actually would love some of your questions. We'll set up a separate chat in the Patreon I would love some questions of what you're interested in Um An any more for anymore? Do you have any dogs shit takes you want to get off your chest I've leared my lesson about talking about drinking. Cheers guys