Career Impacts and Future of the Show

This message comes from Capeppella University. That spark you feel? That's your drive for more Cappella University's Flex Path Learning format lets you earn your degree at your pace without putting life on pause. Learn more at cappella. edu Most of the Bravo reality series Summer House is currently embroiled in a scandal that is sloshing over into the real lives of its participants. All this drama because everybody couldn't just jump in a pool and laaze around for a few months without making each other miserable. Anyway, I'm Linda Holmes and today on NPR's Pop culture Happy Hour, we're talking about why people inside and outside the Bravo fandom are talking about Summer House This message is from AT andT, with your summer essential the iPhone seventeen Pro. Its center stage front camera auto adjusts the frame to fit everyone into group selfies. Right now at AT andT, ask how you can get iPhone seventeen Pro on them with eligible trade in. 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So advertise on LinkedIn, spend two hundred and fifty dollars and get a two hundred and fifty dollars credit. Just go to linkedIn d. com slash NPR pod. Terms and conditions apply Joining me today is Ronald Young Junr. He's the host of the film and television review podcast Leaving The Theater. Hello Ronald. Hello Linda All right, also with us is the former host of Slatess Internet Culture podcast, ICYMI and former pop culture happappy our producer, Candace Lim, Hello, Candace. Hello. It is so good to see you both. I am so excited that you are the people who are here to talk to me about Summer House, it seems. Perfect, okay. So to get you caught up on the summer House scandal, for those of you who may not be following it ten seasons, a group of New York friends has been sharing a summer rental house, being filmed by Bravo as they hang out, drink a lot, fight a lot, make out a lot, and throw theme parties where they do all of these same things only in ridiculous costumes Two of the core members are Kyle Cook and Amanda Batula, who got married midway through the run of the show and have always seemed sort of unhappy together to me. Before the latest seasason started airing, they announced their split. Since the latest season was filmed when they were still together, we see Kyle's canned cocktail business falter and his new DJ career causing tension in the marriage. And then as the season was airing, things boiled over off screen. Amanda released a joint Instagram statement with a dude named West Wilson, confirming they are romantically involved. Now West is a fellow Summer House cast member who formerly dated another castmate, Sierra Miller, who was one of Amanda's closest friends in the house. Sierra is notably one of the few black cast members on Summer House and has spoken in the past about the difficulties of navigating interracial relationships on the series. And while as far as we know, there was no infidelity while either Sierra and West or Kyle and Amanda were still together, Kyle was upset that his buddy started dating his ex wife and Sierra was deeply hurt that Amanda started dating her ex boyfriend Because the summerhouse season had been shot before all this happened, this massive complication remained offs screen until the recent reunion episodes. And by the way, this is all unfolding further on the new Bravo spinoff series in the city, I will note There was originally a three part reunion, but I guess now they've said there's going to be a special at like the aftermath of the three part reunion. It's going to go on as long as people still will watch it. Ronald As a summerhouse viewer, I want you to kind of take the lead in explaining Why Amanda and West dating is such, such a big deal to people Oh my god. Where do I begin Years ago, this country was founded on the principles of It literally comes down to sense of betrayal Amanda and Sierra were ostensibly best friends in Summer House. There were three of them formerly Paiage, who used to be on the show, who left the show and now hosts her podcast Giggly squad Her, Amanda and Sierra would hang out in this bed and they would talk about their boy troubles. Amanda would complain about Kyle and Sierra and Paige would go after Kyle on Amanda's behalf and Paage and CR would share their boy troubles Mter West at Sierra their relationship runs its course or it ends with Sierra thinking that this relationship was going in a direction that most people think that West knows that it was not, meaning that it was not going towards exclusively dating together into the sunset Because of that Sierra had a lot to complain about. She complained a lot about this to Amanda. There was a lot of tension between all of them. Amanda knew all this. And then if you fast forward to now S stuff happens in between she divorces Kyle and all of this stuff happens regardless of sides or all that. But for me personally, I feel like the crux comes down to rayal of Amanda and Sierra. I think that's the easiest way to understand it. These are best friends. I've complained about this man to you for months, years on end. and now you are dating this man after you gave me advice about how terrible this is This badness. Yeah, ye, yeah. fair. Yeah. I think what's interesting about The timeline of Wes coming into Summer House, which is season eight, is that after him and Sierra I'm gonna say kind of broke off their situationship relationship.. He got like New York Times coverage, which was a little odd. It was a little odd because he's a first time cast member. He's just like not that interesting outside of the way he wrongs Sierra. but I think that was the first entry point that leads us into the scandal now, which is for the past few seasons, look Summerhouse, I know people who are huge bravo heads who say Summerhouse is the best show definitively on the network right now. I don't agree with them, but I will say this, I think it is the most approachable show of the network because these people are not celebrities. I would argue, they're not even like A less bravo celebrities. And so the barrier to entry is so much more relatable. If anything, these are people that you would maybe see at the restaurant table next to you and you like overhear their stuff and you're like, I've been that person. I've been Amanda, I've been Kyle I've been Sierra. And I think especially with the West Sierra dynamic I think a lot of viewers saw themselves in Sierra being like,, I've dated that guy. That was nice. I thought he was going to give it all to me. and then he fell short. And the West Wilson press tour after season eight, It was so odd But I really think it started legitimizing the show and it almost started giving cues to the audience and the outside audience to be like, hey, hey, I think you should start paying attention to what's happening here because something's brewing.. It's interesting, you know, Ronald, that you talk about betrayal because I have a longstanding theory about these Bravo shows, not like top chef, not the competitive ones, and not even so much the workplace ones, like a below deck or something like that But the kind of pure social ones like the Housewives shows and suummer House flipping out. Some of the other ones that I probably don't watch, which is their emotional engine is a woman is betrayed and then waits and sort of argues with herself over whether to offer forgiveness. That is something that has happened on the housewives a million times, sometimes far more serious you behave at a funeral or something like that, right? In Summerhouse, this dynamic has played out over and over again with the women on this show. It played out between Kyle and Amanda a bunch of times where he would do something, she would get angry, she would cry, she would be very sad, She would be very upset and she would ultate had to give it another chance. They went through that cycle multiple times. It's also a cycle that Lindsey went through with Carl.. And so to me the reason why this is so well for Bravo. There's a little bit of like the Kyle has been betrayed by West which they've done a little bit with, but no, I'm sorry, but nobody really cares about that relative to the other thing But this story of Amanda, particularly because Amanda was the betrayed and the I have my husband on probation person turning around and now she's the one who everybody feels is such the betrayer, has made it this kind of epic thing And I think one of the things that has happened is that Amanda has not necessarily played the role of the person begging for forgiveness, the way that the person in that position usually does on these shows. Carl was ready to just like walk around and be like, yes, it was all my fault. Everything is my fault. He was ready to eat dirt for as long as it took because he was just trying to get back on her good side. And for a long time, that was the West in Sierra story too, right? He was just trying after they broke up. I just want to be friends again. I just want to be friends again. forgive me, forgive me, forgive me, forgive me But Amanda is kind of like I'm sorry. What do you want me to say? What I'm keep dating W. I'm not going to break up with them. I know I shouldn't have lied. and that's about it. Yeah. And I think I think she has not performed her half of this dance the way that people are used to, the way that Carl did, the way that Kyle used to, the way that some of the housewives do when they know that it is actually their fault. So that is my crackpot theory of Smmer House. On every season of belelow deck, there is betrayal, either from the staff perceived betrayal from the staff to the guests as it did they hold up there to the bargain? Did I get my seafood extravagantza Bet them. I like the chef first. Why are you now hooking up with the chef There's so many versions of it that happen that are small and large. and it is in a lot of ways the engine of drama that is Bravo television is so and so going to fight so and so? is so and so going to forgive so and so. And I think I'm fine with that because the tension brewing is how it all works out. But I do want to point out one thing, this is also the plot of the Gildig, which another show that I love on HB and HBO Max. It is the same plot. The reason why we are t together every week to watch the Gilded age is to watch the tension simmer and see what it boils into because all of the perceived slights on that show end up being stupid stuff. They didn't show up to my party. They were late to the party. they didn't bring a gift. They threw a party at the same time as my party. Oh no they're opening their own opera house. And there's something fascinating about that type of interaction, which is why I think This is hitting so well, but I think betrayal is very relatable. I'll just I'll leave it at that. betrayal is very relatable for most of us. Yeah. I mean, I think the reason why betrayal is the catalyst, the stake at hand is forgiveness. I think it's because grudge is a narrative On Summerhouse, especially for the last three seasons, I would say that they have now figured out a formula. We are now ten seasons into this show. They have figured out a formula, especially for newbies, so this is like the Jesse Solomon. this is like Wes Wilsonons who come onto the show and they're thinking like How do I stay? There's two ways. Number one, you date someone in the house, a bit of an OG to kind of like, you know, keep in their good graces, you know, maybe break up and then enlist the second season, Or you just kind of start fighting with someone in the house for no reason or for like some off camera social media reason. and then that becomes the fire that keeps you coming back I mean, I am unfortunately watching in the city. Let me be clear, I do not like it. However, it is true. There's a cast member on there. Her name is Daniee. She was on summer House for a bit. wor H and Lindsey used to be friends and I swear to God, they are still bringing up stuff that happened multiple seasonso To to three seasons ago, yes. Right? That like between the three of us, if any of that happened to us, I. e, oh, I don't know, questioning our engagement to someone We would maybe find a way to squash it. No, no, no, no. The grudge is the narrative. It is the lifeline for some of these cast members and therefore they will keep pulling on that weed until. It's over. And I think one of the reasons why I've struggled with watching this season and I'm kind of glad that it's at least kind of over. is that I like it when the stakes are a little bit lower, when these betrayals are a little bit like you broke up with me, it hurt my feelings When you really sense that like everybody's really in pain over what has happened and people are really upset It adds a level to it that I find uncomfortable. The other thing that bums me out about this is that it has really taken the focus off of one of my favorite things about this season, which was that Sierra and M and KJ kind of sat around and talked about being black cast members on this show That's been really rare to see that kind of conversation where people are like, listen, this is what happened. It references kind of what happens with the show in a meta sense because one of the things Sierra talks about is fans and people who watch the show react a certain way to the fact that I was dating white guys. and it complicated how she was received by fans. You know, she and me and KJ talked about, you know the complex nature of coming into this spaceace under those circumstances And I thought those were really good conversations and it bums me out that now the context of those conversations is They make even worse this situation that she ended up with. And I do not like the fact that that has kind of taken all the focus off the fact that that was kind of the most interesting thing that happened in the whole season. Not just that conversation, but the dynamic between those three folks and the conversations they were able to have with everybody else. Yeah, the black of it all, I struggle with that on Bravo generally There was Summer House Martha's Vineyard was the all black version of Summer House in which it was the same premise. a bunch of people have a sharehouse, but it was in Martha's Vineyard and the cast was all black And I really enjoyed the show. It ran for two seasons and it was inexplicably cancellled or put on indefinite hiatus, as it was described at the time And I remember thinking As I saw more black people show up on Summer House, I wondered if this was sort of Bravo's way of kind of offering a compromise as to the other product that they have. And then you have these black folks talking about being black on reality television, which is something I've been interested in since I saw Gervase walk in on the first season of Survivor, and I thought some of the stuff he was facing was definitely racialized abbsutely as someone who's been watching reality TV for a long time. And Linda, you would know you were writing about I was probably reading your articles about this from the beginning on television withithout pity. It feels like generally There's this dessense this type of racism or this type of bias or this type of bigotry in some cases, it goes unthought of by black people. And when they actually talk about it always feel like that's a step forward for whatever we're watching because it's acknowledging this thing saying casting me wasn't enough. I also need to tell you what it feels like to actually have the lights on me and to be a piece of the conversation. And unfortunately for Sierra, yes, she had the conversation. She's unfortunately put back in the same position of looking foolish because of all the shenanigans that went down. So it's tough, but you're right. I regret that that's not a bigger part of what we're talking about generally, not us here, but generally in the bigger conversation. Yeah. And I also think in this season, by allowing KJ, Mia, and Sarah to have very honest organic conversations that are not highly pre produced, they're at the dinner table with Mix Company I mean, the season also allowed for KJ to talk pretty, pretty deeply about some really, really important sometimes dark mental health struggles, but from the time he appeared on air into the reunion. And I think that has meant a lot for a lot of people. but one of my favorite things is weirdly Kyle's constant backing of Sierra, even when she did not like him and even when he did not deserve it, they have an interesting bond that I do kind of fawn over sometimes. That's cute. Yeah. and I will say, I think with Kyle, I don't want to lose sight of the fact that he also put on a display of uncontrolled anger this season when he wanted to fight his apparently best friend. That was tough st The fact that all this stuff has kind of happened to him in terms of the Amanda and West stuff does not make to me that part go away. know One of the other things we wanted to talk about is that The strange thing is this has all been obviously incredibly difficult and painful for Sierra, but as happened with some of the stuff with other Bravo scandals, like the Vanderpump ruules stuff and everything This is actually like career wise, like appearances wise She's actually come out. ahead on this whole thing, probably. She's going to be on dancing with the stars she's doing brand deals. You see her right now in a lot of commercials and stuff that pops up on Bravo in particular, but just generally. So it's like weird because it doesn't take away from the fact that she's in incredible amount of pain But like this is not really benefited Amanda very much in terms of her saleability, I guess I would say. It's like kind of N Cerra has already been she was already on like traders. She was extremely popular, right? already But it seems like maybe this kind of thing works in your favor in some prot I mean, Ari Autom Mattox is the host of Love Island, which a show that I am watching right now. So it feels like there's a way in which you could come up off of this the wrong party from the Vanderpump Rules scandal. Exactly. yes. it seems like there's a way in which you could come up off of this, but I will say I would love it if every time of my personal life that I was mistr by someone, I somehow got a giant career step forward out of it. It just does not usually happen. No, it feels like that's where I feel like as a viewer, as a consumer. I feel this sort of disconnect because I'm just like, well that just doesn't happen for regular people, But it does happen for y'all. So good for you and no I won't watch dancing with the stars, but I'm glad that you'll be on it. So I have weird feelings about it. Yeah, you know what? I have to say, I don't have weird feelings about it. My final thing on this is that like look, we saw it with Ariana Maddx after Scandibal when she was kind of made out to be the wronged woman. She got brand deals up the wall Zom and I would say the greatest one of all is hosting Love Island USA to the point where when I watched Love Island USA, I completely forget Ariana was You know, made famous on Vander Pump Rules. I think' like, she's the house of the Isol USA. And I think the reason why that's kind of interesting is because look, is Sandaval the best thing to happen to Vanderpump Rules Yeah, it is That show was almost over and it got it like another two seasons out of it. Exactly. think That is also evidence that the show itself Vanderpump, and I'm going to say Summerhouse as well I think as a viewer, we are starting to see Summerhouse on a bit of its last legs. And I'm not gonna say that like this scandal was orchestrated to like, know raise numbers or whatever. but I almost wonder if people on the cast kind of had this feeling of like, I have so little gas in the tank for this entire enterprise. how much longer do I have to spend every summer in the Hamdens with you guys I think out of Vanderpump rules, Ariana became the lasting figure to walk out, maybe not unscathed, but empowered the most famous of them all. and I think Sarah is going to be that person where even when Smmer House ends, she's going to be the person that is still out there booking jobs. I mean, I will say the scandal she's done so well. She is in a scary movie promo with Regina Holland on a Feris, the Wayans brothers. She did like a Sonic ad with Ariana Maddox I totally get why there is some ickiness to that, this idea that you're profiting off of someone's pain. but I think this is a situation where forgiveness is not an option. I just don't think forgiveness is an option. It's how these things are designed to work. The funniest thing that happened at the reunion, to me, maybe the only funny thing that happened at the reunion was when Lindsey said to Amanda, and West Essentially, as you were getting involved with him, how could you not have thought about how it might affect our careers? And I was like, first of all What a bizarre idea Yeah as you were deciding whether to pursue a relationship with this guy, how could you not have thought of my career? I think that's deeply hilarious and tells you kind of where these people's heads are. Yeah, it's not going to hurt their careers in the lightest And second of all, interest in this show has never been higher. I The idea that by getting into this relationship, they hurt the careers of the other people in this cast, I think is notot supported by the evidence, I'll just say. So I found it, but I found it so funny and so telling that she's like Why didn't you think of my brand deals with ex deciding whether to pursue this relationship