Playing at Nottingham Forest

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But then it comes to the night before the game. How do you relax in that situation? I can sleep in that situation. Well that was I think what Bobby Gould was thinking. You know, we'd had our you know, as you do your evening meal, seven o'clock that is evening meal. And uh a few people get a little bit restless, you could see that. And um Gordy said to Calky I think, well what what do you what do you normally do a night before a game? He went have a pint. So he went, Well then. So we literally the whole lot of us went out we stayed at the Hotel Canazara, which is on Wimwood and Common, and we went round the corner and there was a little pub round a corner. And uh we found out afterwards this pub when Wimbledon years, years, years beforehand, that was their dressing room when they used to play on Wimwood and Common. Wow. So we've gone in this park, but it was like walking into Yoke Corral. Because as the doors are open, there's already Well I said it's it's quite a lot of women and fans singing and having a few beers, and we walk in, And then and then uh me and Sanch used to have a a pint of Guinness. Yeah. Thorny and Cork you'd have a pint of lager, a strong one. And then you had the ones that didn't drink fash, Carlton, I think Vinny was probably on his juice that period in his life. And uh so but we was all in there. We had a we had our little drink. Then went back to the hotel and I just think that being together in a different environment stops you thinking and and using up all that probably negative energy. Yeah or just or just getting too excited. Fans must have gone mad. I'm if I was one of those Wimbledon fans. Yeah. It's just like a dream, isn't it? Were any of the fans like, what are you doing here? Go back to the hotel and sleep. You've got a big game too. I think you had a mixture. I think you had a mixture of fans thinking, go back. I've got two years to watch. And the other ones were saying, Well this is what you do. Yeah This is how you prepare the games and this is what we've we've expected from you and expect nothing any different. And then you play Liverpool, the greatest English team of the last ten years. They've they've got Beardsley and they've got Barnes and they're amazing. Yeah, he was the one that's the Barnes he was the one that's the first things was just unbelievable. Did you think you had a chance? Yeah. We did we all I mean, we were the only ones who did. Yeah. You know, the rest of the country thought we were lambs to slaughter. Most of the media were saying it was going to be the the highest scoring you know, cup final. Had they beaten you that season We'd played probably uh a couple of months before and they beat us at Anfield two one. So why were the media so it's m you've come sixth. Your whole kind of raise on Detroit is to kind of get into these teams and mess 'em up. You'd think people would be going, This Wimbledon team is the kind of team that could cause this upset, but it was just kind of snobbishness, I suppose. I just think that Liverpool were that good. Yeah. In that yeah, that you know, that team they had was unbelievable. I think they'd won the the title. weeks beforehand. And they they were a really good side. And you know, the only thing we done different in our uh preparation for the game was was Don he switched Wisey on wings, 'cause Wise normally played on the left wing cutting in. Um we you know, we w again we was probably a bit ahead of our time. We had No, inverted uh wingers. So we had we had a le uh a right foot on the left and a left foot on the right. So we'd we'd come inside. And and he switched um Wisey from left to right. So it's 'cause Wise was really fit. He could run for fun, Wise. Yeah. And we just felt that we'd need a little bit. Clive Goodyear was our right back. We just felt that it wasn't being disrespectful to Clive, but how good John Barnes was. Yeah. If we could get someone that had the ability to be able to go forward but also get back and help out double up on John Barnes. Yeah. Then that's what Wise was asked to do and and he worked really well, Wise. And so the game starts, you got you get to do the coin toss, you get to do the walking on the pit. The great thing was that w you know someone we related with was Princess Diana. As much as anything, a royal that you know you could kind of relate to. Yeah. As an outsider. Yeah. Yeah. And and we, you know, I c I remember in the dressing room. So Princess Diana's doing the cut. She's doing the she's coming on, she's doing the presentation. But you know you have all these um traditions with the cut final. Yeah. You know, the songs, the marching bands on the pitch and um take the royalty down the line, down the introduction. I mean that was the thing. I you know, I came out and And when we get to there, you know, because three quarters of the stadium was was red and white. Yeah. And we had a little bit of yellow and blue. But just looking around the place and and coming out then and Princess Dina coming over and I think I s I said to her, Lucky you wore your heels today then because we're quite a big side. It's a lovely line. What did she say? She actually said, Well it's not such a good idea because they sink into the grass. So now I think right, quick, move on. Let's start introducing the boys. And this No, it was it was a big thing for for everyone else. Of course, she's the most famous person in the world. I I always think if I'm the captain, you're gonna you're gonna stitch up one of your mates and maybe introduce uh John Fashion as Vinny Jones or something like that. Did you do anything? No. She'd obviously been either prepped or done some homework, so she knew Most of the most of the players. When you introduce you know you'd introduce them and I didn't do anything to what you're saying. But she knew who she was talking to. Wow. Really? Did she have a little line for each of them or like go sh you know, like it is I I've looked at the photographs afterwards and She didn't obviously say have a conversation with everyone and she'd probably miss someone, but there was always when she's missed someone you can see them kind of trying to get involved in the next conversation that's going on. And so the game starts. Vinny Jones, a kind of iconic moment, a really tough tackle. on Steve McMahon. Were you like we're gonna go in hard and let them know we're there. We always felt the first challenge we win the first challenge. The first header, we win the f you know, we wanted to be competitive to everything that we was gonna have to face in a game. We wanted to be the first at it. But it was the first real tackle. Yeah. But Vinny come off worst. Yeah, he depth did his eye, didn't he? Little cut under his eye. What I love about that clip as well is that he goes in and the both of them just stand up. None of them neither want to show they've been hurt by that. And like you think that's so rare now. Like you wouldn't just wouldn't see two like lions going at him and then just getting up and carrying it. There's a thing that we were told, you know, don't show you hurt. You know, it's one of those you know, whereas now they're not her and they show they pretend they are her, you know. So you're one nil up, half time you're one nil up. Are you daring to dream at this point? What's being said in the dressing room? We came in at half time and um we we were all right, you know, we didn't have uh too many chances. They had a few um I've made a couple of savings important. But we came in, Wemberley it can either be scoring or or a horrible day. It was one of those really hot days. And we came in and suddenly Don Howe, you remember being with England uh I think in Mexico. Yeah. So as we've come in the doors, we've thrown this Ice cold tail. Yeah. And everyone's put em over your head, put them over your head, boys, put them over your heads, heads down, you know, c calm down, you know. And that's what we was all in in and then you know, like you could tell there's a few of us like come lifting the tails out and we're looking around and every every and and Bob's talking to everyone, you know. You can't see their heads, they've just got all these tails over them. But it was it was trying to kind of call your your head temperature down to bring your you know, your core temperatures down so science. The early days of it was, yeah, that's what say all we were we were front runners, we were. And so you any of you going wick of win, like is this I think it was just I can't even remember the the chat, but I know that what we would have been saying was just carry on doing what we're doing. Yeah. Try and keep the ball a bit better than we are, because we didn't keep the ball that well at all, especially in the second half. You know, it it kind of was a bit of an onslaught in the second half. Penalty. Is this the thing you're always asked most about the penalty? It's not so much the penalty, it's people say, Oh what great save that was. And I'm thinking, you know. Well it could have been which is why I was playing. It could've been last week I made a decent cat final. It's always a cat it's always related to the cat final and and it's the the biggest save of my career. Um the mo it was probably a life changing save because you know, from from that things happen. But You know, the irony was that it wasn't a penalty. Yeah, yeah. How much luck is there in that penalty, Save, and how much have you researched John Aldridge, you know what you're doing. I think there's always luck even in the research you've done, but but in those days you didn't see every goal like you see nowadays. You know, you you you got the opportunity to see everything that happens through every league. Whereas in those days you just see match of the day in the big match. That was all. But again we're talking 'cause Liverpool were that good. I'd seen them probably play on TV four or five times and I'd seen John Aldridge take a couple of penalties and I'd seen what he'd done. And they they 'cause when they played m um Forest in the semi final he scored. And he used to just do that that little delay, the little stutter. And by that time the keeper had committed. And if the keeper hadn't committed, I felt he would go to my left. So my job was to stand up as long as I could and stay still. And again we're talking about the the week preparing for the the cup final. We had all the camera crews matter they big match came down so um John Motson came down to us one of our training sessions and he said there's never been a penalty saved in a cup final. What will happen if John Aldridge gets a penalty? So I said, Well he comes up, he does this little stutter and then if I stand still he put it to my left. So afterwards when on seeing the the playback of the the game, John Motson is saying, and Dave told me in the week that if they get a penalty, John he would come up and he'd do this and then and then he saved So he was like talking what was was gonna happen just as it was happening and uh you know saved the penalty went round for a corner and and suddenly all that adrenaline tough to just get back into right defenders. And it was probably the easiest thing I had to do all afternoon from the corner, John Barnes taken the corner, clipped it near post. I've come, two hands, dropped it, but dropped it straight in front of me and then fell on it. And that was like a wait get back to what you're you're doing. Yeah, exactly. I suppose there will be one or two Liverpool players who have to come up to full potential at this first hour. They're gonna make a change. There is Aldridge, beardsley. Well he might score here. Putcha thinks he played the ball. because Aldridge who I think might have been replaced a moment later is the penalty taker and never has a penalty been missed in the FA Cup final at Wembley Well that's what it was given for more of that in a moment Dave Besson's in the week told me that he's been watching where Aldrich puts his kicks Aldrich in fact was the player foul himself by good looked a bit harsh to me. Jimmy had in a moment on that. Bessie pitched the kick or thought the kick might go to his left or the right as we look if Aldridge decides to go the same way as in the semi-final. time ever but a penalty kick has not been converted in the FA Cup final here and Besson did guess right his homework paid off and Wimbler still in the lead I always think when a goalkeeper saves a big penalty like that, they rarely celebrate and that goes out for a corner and you like you're co composed but inside one you're like come on. Do you see? I mean Fash comes up and he jumps in front of me and then he disappears. It's like he's jumped in a hole. It'd been a big cinco up here, but he went down on his knees and he was like kneeling in front of me and I and I'm going come come on come on focus corner come on So the worst thing is is you save a penny and they go and score from the corner. Yeah. So you win the crazy gang of beat in the culture club. You have to go up it must be amazing to go up and get the cup. From Princess Diana, presumably. That was it. And um like I say, all those cup finals I'd seen on the T V as a kid, even like as a as a pro footballer, you know, you're seeing all these predecessors, all the all the captains go up the great captain's go out we're getting and I was in that previous position to go up and and and receive the trophy and um again in those days you led the team up. Now the captains tend to go at the end and they pick the trophy up with the end. But we went up and Wise was b and Wise was like a little kid. He was bouncing, he was he had it they they put a hat on me and I ain't wearing that you put it I put it on Wise's head and and he's behind me and he was he was skipping and then and then Princess Diana, I can't remember what she said, gave me my medal, gave me the trophy, you know, done the lift and kiss and and I could hear Wise behind me. Aye, you bastard And you know like when you you kinda the the whole moment you think why is he there's royalty there Some decorum. What was that night like? It was nothing like you'd expect. No you just knackered from there kind of I think it was and again beforehand Uh typical Winwood and Way, it was um most teams would go to a big plush hotel and and Stanley Reid, who was the chairman and Sam a man, had come to to me as a captain and said, What do you want to do? Do you want to go to the the Hilton? 'Cause the Hilton was the place in those days You and your your wife go to the hill and have a nice meal. Or We have a marquee on the um the pitch. We'll have a marquee on the pitch, table of ten for every player. All paid for by the club. That was a table of ten, that's a good no that is. But all your families and that's what happened. We had a table for ten. So we wasn't like all together. We were under the marquee. Oh that's that we weren't, you know, like all sitting around the table, like ten of you around the table going mad. You were with your family. So you had your time where you got up and had a drink in a bar and you went back to your family's. So it was quite a calm night. Um but the getting home Back to the hotel was was the interesting part because everyone everyone was out in Wimbledon. Anyone who was in was out. Couldn't get a taxi. We didn't have the the bus had gone we got taken back in the back of a police van. And we hadn't actually done anything. They were just there and we were I thought it was gonna end in the police van, but like It was just one of those things that we couldn't get back in the police van, we'd give a lift back. Where the hell am I? It's a fighting tournament to the death. It's called Mortal Kombat for a reason. The tournament begins. Johnny Gay, you have been chosen to fight. Coming or what? I'm an actor. I can't do this. You're fighting for the fate of our world. Get over here! Two in Cinemas Friday. Book tickets now. It's your time. Oh that's your last game for Wimbledon. It must you go to Newcastle for eight hundred and fifty grand. It must be so weird to come out of such a kind of distinct footballing culture. and go into what is a more kind of run of the mill club. Did you miss being in the Crazy Gang when you left? It was funny because I'll go back to our Cup run, 'cause we beat Newcastle en route to win in the FA Cup, and we play at St James Park. And they had Mirandina. Yeah. Probably the first Brazilian. Yeah. And he had come to England, he wanted his big thing was the FA Cup. And so when we beat him and we were winding up, me and Thorny, he knows that again with a back pass, so I could roll the ball to the centre half, he'd stand on it till Miranda come to shut him down, roll the ball back to me, I'd wait for Mir and Dina to come to me, I'd pick it up. We had him doing doggies between the two of us And at the end of the game We won three one. I'm shaking hands with everyone and suddenly I've got booted at the back side. And as I've looked over my right shoulder, I've seen this fella running, Mirandina's running away, Mirandina's booting me up the arse and then legged it to the fans. And the fellow who was running was Mirandina's interpreter, 'cause he could see what what he'd done. We all think it's this fella's booted me, so a few people gone after him and then Terry Gibson is leg in it and he's he's spotted me he's chas me and to the fans. It's all gone off. You know, like he's dived into the fans to be safe there. Those times they would they were doing um St James Park up, so we had the port of cabins behind the goal. So obviously Mirandine has been told, you know, you can't do that. You know, you we've lost fair and square. You can't you can't go and boot someone after the game. So he came in, he understood no English. He's come round and he he was told, you must say this. I am sorry. So he came in and he went around everyone. I am sorry. So because we knew he didn't understand a word we were saying, he was getting a few expletive. We were all smiles and nodding at the air, going So and and then and then when I go to Newcastle, I go in the dressing room, get if quite early they say, yeah, your peg did changing now. They put me next to Mirandina. And Mirandina turns up two or three minutes before training, walks in the door, big Dave, my friend. Then we get to the nineteen ninety World Cup. David Seaman was the third choice but then got injured, is that right? Yeah, we had you know, we had a two week preparation before going away and you had your squad and there was four goalkeepers in Peter Shute and Chris Woods, Dave Seymen and myself. And uh I knew that I was fourth choice. You know, you know the pecking order type of thing. And I was there, but you're there in case anything happens. You're prepared for it. And so the twenty six of us were were training and then on the last day, you know, you're waiting for the the call and uh Bobby Rodson said, you know, we'll speak to the people it need speaking to. I used to room with Dave Seaman just after lunch. Knock on the door, open the door, Bobby Robson comes in. Hi Dave. There's two of us. So he k he comes in and he he's it was you know, as Bobby was, it's he's smile and he had his head shaking and and he look at me. And he goes, Dave, I've got some great news for you. He's looking at me and I've kind of seen Dave and I've seen his shoulders drop and I'm thinking, is he sure that he's got the right Dave here? But he went, You don't have to train anymore. And that's the way you broke the news to me. Wow. That's a cruise to me. I think it didn't know how to tell someone you won't go. Yeah. And how did that feel? But you knew, didn't you? Yeah, kind I kinda knew but suddenly for for a fraction of a second when he went Dave, I've got I'm thinking, he's he's taking me instead of Dave, you know? But he didn't. And then they go away. Well yeah. This is a thing you're told, keep yourself ticking over. Now you don't tick over. You go for a run now and again. don't do any goalkeeping because you haven't got the facilities to do it. No one everyone else is on their holidays that can kick a boy you want it kicked at you. Yeah. Um and I was at uh a golf day, Dave Bassett's golf day, playing golf and then I get in and people come to me, Dave, Dave, you you've got to go to the World Cup. Yeah, yeah. No, it's on Teletext. It was on CFAX, you know. Amazing. He was saying that Bobby Ralson is trying to contact Dave Besson because Dave Seaman's injured and he's got to go to the World Cup. Wow, how have they got this on the screen? Unbelievable. You you you you can't write really I get packed up and I go out. That must have just felt like what you did, you call someone, what do you do? When I got home because I didn't you didn't have mobile phones. When I got home I'd had calls at home 'cause no one could contact me because I'm on the golf course. Yeah. And so you get home and then you have to call I think it was Michelle from the FA who does all the organising. Right, you've got a flight tomorrow morning at this time, you've got to get to Turin and Wow. What experience. And I had the suit because that was the other thing. We a we all had our suits, you know, so I didn't suddenly have to go and buy a suit to with an England bag on it. So we had our suits made before we all, you know, um got told we weren't going here. And then you get there to the score. So how many days before the World Cup is this? No, this is the World Cup's We've kicked off. Oh we've kicked off. We played the game against um Island. Oh wow. Yeah. So we're we'd draw on one all and then I go out there for the next two games and we drew with Holland. And your third choice you're thinking I'm not gonna get on the pitch here, presumably. You a you think I'm on just an amazing kind of jolly in a way. What are you doing with your days? Are you training seriously and you Well the thing is is because I haven't trained for two or three weeks, and now we're p we're in Italy where it's it's warmer in Sardinia training. And the one thing I found was the ball was flying so much quicker or m my reactions had got so much slower in those two or three weeks. So I found it quite difficult to adjust the train, you know, balls were flying past me and I'm thinking, you know, we can't we can't have this for too long. But the strange thing was when when I arrived there We had the whole hotel to ourselves and and um say, right, this is the the leisure complex, which was where we had pool and table tennis and we had a screen and watch TV and and Neil Webb was injured. And uh and I get on a new Webby from you know, you know people bit more than you do others and and Webby went, Dave, Dave's I I looked at him, I thought he looks a bit you know, like glaz eyed. You know, he looks like he's had a drink. And he's got a coffee cup and saucer and he's sitting there and do you want um Coffee? I was like, no, not really coffee. No, do you want to and he kind of called this he'd got this waiter on tap. It was brandy. 'Cause he was injured, he couldn't train and and uh he was he've you know, he he didn't really do anything for much it at all and but so we play the the game against Holland, draw by all, and he came we've got a table and Bobby used to give you a drink after the game. You could have a so a couple of bottles of beer at every Position. And that's when Peter Beasley got really, really popular. 'Cause he didn't drink. So everyone wanted to sit next to Peter and then slide his drink over to to yours. And I mean this is the thing, you know, it was Was it a good spirit? Like it was what was Gaza like in that situation? Gaza Gaza was crucial. Yeah. Uh you know, and because of what happened um to Brian Robson, he broke his toe. He he kind of I think he stubed it on a on a bed, was it? No, it's actually i in it's strange because going from the the bedroom into the bathroom We had a marble plinth and he'd stub it on that in the night and broke his toe. Oh what a hard. And so because of that, he was out of the team and he was integral to the way England played. Yeah. Captain. We changed the system. And Gaza comes in, Gaza it was Gaza or Platinum, so only the two of them were in the team. We had um the three centre aisles with Righty, Des Walker, and Butch. Then you had the fallbacks in Stuart Pierce and Paul Parker who who would push on a bit more. So we we kind of went to a three at the back. Yeah. And was Gaza like How you imagine him around the place. Is it constant was it constant energy and he's like this kind of You know this you know, Gaza's like hyper. He's hyper active, he can't sit still and and he'd be knock you know, at two o'clock in the morning get a knock on the door. Well he gave him table tennis. I was a type that would bounce off with Gaza just like you've said, your third choice you generally think You know, I'm here to for training, to make the numbers up. So I can probably do things with to keep someone happy as well, you know, like to keep him happy and and so we were we were quite palliing. Obviously his big mate is Chrissy Waddle, so Waddler was there as well. You know, he was he was trying to keep him And on match day, so your third choice, so you're not on the b it's not one like these days where the whole squad's on the bench. What are you do uh do you get to go in the dressing room or are you kind of filtered off with the people that aren't involved in the match days? No, we'd we'd be part of the the team until it come to, you know We're preparing for the game now. So when it come to actually the game prep, um in the dressing room where the you know shin pads and boots and Bobby's talking and Don's talking, then we'd be out on the bench waiting for the game to start. So you're sat on the bench. We sat on the bench. We was always out on the bench, you know, part of the squad. So we had this huge long bench and uh Yeah, we was out there, so And you got your kit on or is that a suit? No track suit. So we'd always turn up in we'd al the whole squad would turn up in in a tracksuit. So we'd be on the bench in tracksuits and the subs would be in the same tracksuit. So you looked like you was probably part of it. Yeah. And what's Let's go Well at first an interesting game is the Cameroon one, where there's kind of this feeling that England underestimated Cameroon. Did that feel like that happened in the I don't think it was actually an underestimation. I think that they were just far better than anyone had given them any credit for. Yeah. And and I don't think the I say we didn't take them lightly. They're a big physical team as well, aren't they? And and you know, with especially the African nation, they can run. Yeah. You know, they can keep going. And and again, you know, we found it with the the temperature, it was hot and it was draining. And and they just kept going and going and going and and the fact that you know we beat them how we did in the latter stages as well. Yeah. And then you get to cheer in for the game against West Germany. The build up to that much very kind of intense and well the team thinking about winning the World Cup. I think um we'd started to understand what was going on back home. Yeah. And that was a massive thing to us, the fact that the whole nation had had bought into the football team because before that it wasn't you know, people you know, Bobby Robson was under a bit of pressure. But the progress and the fans, you know, you know, we could always see what was going on in the in the Especially the ones not playing could see the you know, the less all ever disco and the the congers going round the terraces from the England fans and they were brilliant. They were fantastic. But we didn't realise what had happened back here. You know, how how the people were taking it to heart. But you know it was one of those that Again, the preparation is no different. Yeah. I don't think you can take games obviously the you've got the things that are going on around you are slightly different. Police escorts to the games and you've got police guard and we went we trained um I think uh Juventus' summer training camp, which is up in the the hills a bit more, so it's a bit more altitude. But you know, that's the thing you you find you you just change bases. The further you progress, the more you're changing hotels and changing bases. I don't think we was actually allowed to our partners were allowed to come over for one night. Because we got to the semifinal they were flown out and allowed to to be with you for for one night and um was knacker the next day. England against West Germany. Did you clock Gaza get like what was happening with Gaza getting the yellow card and with him crying and you see obviously Lineker look over at Bory Robson. You're on the bench at that point. Are you watching this unfold? You knew what was gonna happen. You knew as soon as you got booked he was gonna miss Potentially the the final if we get there. And obviously the worry was he'd do something stupid. Yeah. You know, the fact that he you know, he is such a an emotional character. But no, I think he just he controlled himself as he as he had to do, and in a way that was the only thing that if if Gaza hadn't been able to play, if we did reach the cup the World Cup final and he hadn't been out to play It had been a travesty from his point of view and I don't know what happened would have happened with with us. Yeah. We'd have fared without him. Are you aware of the myth surrounding you in this game? Yes. Which is obviously untrue. Yeah. Which is that you there was a talk of you coming on, but obviously you weren't on the bench. Was it because you were a penalty saving expert? When was the first you heard about it? Is there any any talk of that or any idea of that in the camp? No, because as you said, that I wasn't named sub. You had to be a named sub, but the thing is, I'm in the air of my tracks, the people are probably thinking You're on the bench. And the people who have looked back at the the footage have seen you on the bench. So why didn't they bring him on? You know, for the last few minutes and Would you have liked that? It put a hell of a lot of pressure on you because you imagine it something happened in the last minute. I would have never been out to get off an airport. Did you talk to Shilton about penalties? So there's that downtime. No, it's funny 'cause Schultz was was his own man. Yeah. I was gonna say I imagine. And he definitely wouldn't have taken any in information or anything from me. Well if you heard his penalty saving kind of tactics are to just wait and try and guess. You you're not you don't subscribe to that school. No. Will you watching those penalties thinking I'd have saved that one. In your head your face set out. In your head when whoever's stepping up, Andrew's Brahm or whatever, are you thinking if this was me I'd be going this way. That's what that's exactly what I'm doing, sitting on the bench, right? I go I'll go left, go left, go and then go left and go. And then Shields would go left, but after the ball's nestled in the corner of the net. Yeah. So you can officially say that from your position you would have saved at least Well I listen. Putting it mildly is that You've got no chance of saving a penalty if you stand still until they've kicked it. Until they've kicked it. Yeah. If it's in the corners, you've got no chance whatsoever. Then it and Sam Herman could have probably scored You know, if you stand still that he's brogues on. But if you anticipate then you might go the wrong way a few times, but um If you go the right way, you're gonna have a great chance of saving. And some of those penalties were sick quite safe. Yeah. And then what was it like after the game? It was horrible. Yeah. It was really like, you know, down down in the dressing room, quite emotional. Obviously Gaza was upset, you know. Bobby was was disappoint you could see he was disappointed. But then we get on the bus and Gaza Gaza went to Shores Oi, any chance of you saving a penalty? How did that go? Exactly that it did go down too well, but he said he said he did say I went the right way every time. Oh Shelton There's another Shilton story with it. Which might have affected you in the third place playoff. Uh they wanted to play the players that hadn't got a game. So that would have been Chris Woods. But Shilton refused to step down. Is that true? Who do you hear that from? That's like in I've heard that. Yeah, it is out there. Yeah. That was the one thing like 'cause you know the worst thing is after losing you've got to train because you've got this game coming up. And uh Bobby went, right, all the lads that haven't got the cap will play. So you would have played, so Woods he would have started and I'd have come on the sub. Yeah. That's what he had said. He said so everyone there was only myself, uh, Chris Woods, Tony Dorillo, and I think Webby because he was injured. 'Cause he was drunk. Who who hadn't played, you know, everyone else had been involved in in one way or another. And uh Shields went, Gaffa, it's gonna be my hundred and twenty fifth game and I wanna finish it. And uh and and Woodsie looked at me and I looked at Woods and kind of we shook our head thinking, you know, now we've a World Cup cap is you know, you get your caps, but a World Cup cap to to say you know you've got your cap and who you've played against. It was a massive thing for us. And uh and then You know the story obviously with the game. Well he was at fault for the goal. For the goal, he was dribbling the ball and I'm not sure whether it's Scalarci or Baggio took it off him and put it in the net. Yeah. And I'm saying we've got this long bench and Woodsy's one end of the bench and I'm the other end of the bench and we both kind of lean forward to look at each other and you could just see lot a few shoulders like moving around. But it it didn't matter. Yeah. You know the great thing from being a loser And I know that you shouldn't take anything from losing, but saying that to go to World Cup and have anything to bring back from a World Cup is massive. And once you knew you was in the semi final, you know you've got a medal. And the the third and fourth game is irrelevant. You know, y so both teams have got their medals. We got 'em presented before the game, I think. So we've got 'cause that was the only time. But is there like a nice atmosphere with you and the Italians and stuff, and it's Oh they they wanted our kit. Really? They wanted the shirt. Oh, they wanted our shirt. Everyone wanted an English England shirts were m were huge for everybody there. Wow. You know, they wanted like probably like a Braz Brazil shirt is To us. Yeah. Yeah. I wanna I wanna especially if you could get a certain person's one, it was even more so. After the game it'd be right, we swap shirts after the game. They came into the dressing room after the game. Kit bag? Your kit bag? My kit bag? We swap kit bags? They wanted an industrial amount of the city. They wanted training kit, they wanted everything. So did you give your goalkeeper shirt away? So what have you got from that world code? You always have two shirts. Yeah. So for each game, so you've got the g the the team you play against. Yeah. So you get a shirt to swap and a shirt to keep. A lot of the time when you see players say, first they don't want to strip off on the pitch, but a lot of times they say in the dressing room, you can see 'em pointing in the dressing room because they've got another shirt. Yeah. Which they would give them that because it's it's a shirt if especially if you make a debut. Yeah, I don't want to give my shirt. Exactly. I want to wear I want my shirt. You can have my spare shirt. It's got me a name when it where it's got got the And you go into each other's dressing rooms, and is there that kind of thing. It tends to be the kitmen. Right. The kitman would go in, unless you've organised it with on the pitch who you're going to swap with, then the kitman would go in and say, Right, there's ten English shirts there. No, it's like scrabbling for scalators. It was just the numbers, wasn't it? So you didn't have the names on the shirt. Did you ever negotiate a shirt swap while a match was playing? No. This episode is brought to you by Expedia and Visit Scotland. Start your story in Scotland. Experience the pool of wide, untamed landscapes, and fresh cuisine that feels rooted in place. Discover castles steeped to the legend. And feel the genuine warmth from locals you meet, and a place that will stay with you long after you leave. Start planning your own Scottish holiday. Today at expedia.co.uk slash visit scotland. Welcome to Paris Peace Serrière. Your blind date is already at the table, and there she is. Cousin Brenda, what are you doing here? You're married anyway! Substitution brought to you by Patty Power. Cousin Brenda makes me fall bestly off his crush. Oh, get in! You might not always pick the right starter, but your sub can still deliver. Because with Patty's super sub, your bet rolls over to the player coming on! Patty Power! Valid on selected leagues and markets only. Pre-match and in play debts on qualifying player outcome selections only. T's and C's and exclusions apply. I want to bust another myth just around this early nineties time. Obviously if you if you google yourself and look at different rumours, there's the rumour that you dropped a tub of salad cream on your toes and severed your tendons in a f a f one of the biggest freak accidents of the nineties, surely. Is that true? Uh it's true to an extent. I didn't drop it. Which is which is which kills the story a little bit. I've knocked it out. I'm punched it clear. I've knocked it out I'd have really for some reason I'd a Uh well not for some reason I had a deep larder. I had a larder at home where I was used to keep my tea bags at the back. Don't know why that's bad. Probably because they were quite because they were quite high. Yeah. So you don't have the big things at the front, do you? No, my my wife does this. And and as I l I went to the back, at the front was a jar of salad cream. And as I've got the tea bags out, I've knocked the jar of cellar cream with my elbow out the glass jar. Glas jar and it's fallen. I've got no because it's in the morning, I've got no shoes on. And I've done the football thing, I've tried to control it with my foot. Yeah. And it's hit my foot and then bounced on the floor and smashed. And I've cut my foot and now the blood is trickling into the mayonnaise, which make you look like Thousand Island Tost. It look it look quite good actually. Uh but um but I only had a a cut of probably about a half inch. Yeah. But it went s it went straight to the bone. Oh and uh and yeah, it's my worst ever injury. I was out for three months it finished my career at Chelsea. No, wow. What was it like at Chelsea? What was playing under Ken Bates and like Ken was interesting. Yeah you've you're chairman in the night, right? Sam Ken Bates. Well they got they got a world together, the two of them. I bet they did, yeah I mean Ken lived quite close to me, he had a farm, he had a dairy farm where he used to do great ice cream, which is really nice. Um but that's uh that's the only thing that uh used to get out of Kim was it maybe a bit of ice cream nowadays. Funny he looks a bit like an ice cream. But uh No, he it was it was okay to work under. He was he was non negotiable in many departments, but when it come to me signing from Newcastle, I'd signed a five year contract in Newcastle and you don't get your salaries, but you get any sign on fees you're due 'cause you didn't ask for a transfer. So I'd I'd four m four more years sign on fees to come. So when I go to Chelsea I signed for five years at Chelsea. So I want same sign on fees and so Ken Bates says you've just got your four years from then, I won't give any more. And like it was more this and I you know I was quite a I wanted to come back to Chelsea. Yeah um so it's one that's uh it was definitely non negotiable. I'm saying well Ken but have some ice cream. Um and then you South Hampton Nottingham Forest so you play by the time you sign for Nottingham Forest in nineteen ninety seven, you're thirty eight. What's it like being kind of older than everyone else in the team and like Do you feel as a goalie at that point are you thinking this is over, I could go on for years more or I probably felt at my fittest because I knew that I had to to work a little bit harder. Yeah. Um it wasn't one of those where you suddenly see nowadays that they' saying if you're a little bit older they take take it their foot off the ped a little bit. Um I found I worked harder. I done things that I never used to do in my early stage of my career, so the I I got in the gym quite a bit doing weights and So toning yourself up a little bit. The the dietitians had just started to come in then. So we'd started to take the creatine which was helpful to yourself. You k we knew what to eat. And Dave Bassett signed me. So he knew about me. He knew me. He knew exactly what I was like. He knew my personality. And he probably felt that he needed someone like that in his dressing room. Um because that was the one thing I found people didn't like Winwooden as a team. But suddenly, you know, uh and I think the cup final was the beginning of the downfall for for Wimwoodon, the fact that suddenly people thought, you know, they're not bad them. So they started to pick. players. You know, I left, Thorny left, Terry Feeling left, Dennis Wise left, Vinny left, Fash left. You know that suddenly the the team had been picked apart and I think that people were looking thinking, I want a little bit of that in my team. Yeah, yeah. And that's their way of getting it. And when you go to clubs, like when whichever club I went to there was someone in that dressing room that I'm thinking, you would have fitted in perfectly. You know, and then you bounce off of that person and you start you know you c you start creating that same type of atmosphere in in that dressing room. And I think that's what Harry, as well as n needing a goalkeeper, he thought I would fit in well to that dressing room and and it did. It it w it worked really well. And that season we won the title. So at thirty eight, you know, you you win the championship again to get promoted to the the Prem and uh I I felt I was I was better equipped. You played till forty two at Forest. As recently, uh twenty fourteen you were named on the sub bench at fifty five for Steven. What what would have happened had you had to come on? What would that have looked like? It would have looked quite funny, I think. But the how it how it came about was m I went to Stevenage because my son was there. My son was the goalkeeper for Stevenage. They were going for playoffs. And toward the end of the season. This was in League Two. Oh right, so footballer. Footballer, yeah, yeah. And he's his appendix burst. And occasionally when someone was in, if a goalkeeper was in, I used to join in the training sessions. And Graham Wesley was quite a a taskmaster in his own ways. When I used to train, whichever team I was in, we used to always win. And he was he's he he'd get the humble of it, he'd go, How come he's sixty years old? Which I worked. He's sixty years old and his team always win. And the players go, the ones obviously in the winning team would say the reasons why. And what were the reasons? He's talking to us all the time, he's putting us in the right positions, his information is unbelievable. And then when it came to making a save, I could still make the save. And then when we get to the stage where he said to me I want you to go on the bench. The only is the goalkeeper who was in goal was Chris Day. Yeah. And Chris Day was 40. So our combined total age is 95 years of age. A lot of experience. I actually said to you, Crown Wish, I said, to be fair, if you want to stick me on the bench, you might as well play me. He you could see it was in his mind thinking 'cause he he like a little story as well, you know. I played Dave and Um we have a feature on our show called uh Do I Remember This Right? And basically we let listeners send emails in with things they think they remember and then we try and adjudicate whether or not they happened. But actually today We've got two stories that are about you and things that listeners claim to remember. And so I wanted to put those stories to you to see whether or not these are true. So this first one's from uh Jag Mundy. It says Hi gents, greetings from France. Not technically nineties, but I hope you'll allow the concession as it's eighties and not naughties. I have a vague memory that on a Wimbledon FC VHS compilation I once owned, Wimbledon played in a game where they scored a goal during which the opposition goalkeeper was slightly injured, but not bad enough for play to stop. As the opposing team kicked off, their players pass it back to the goalkeeper, not noticing he was still rubbing his injured leg and the ball rolled past him straight into his own net. So effectively Wimbledon scored two goals with only one touch of the ball. Do I remember this right, Jack? Exactly. True effects. That's true. FA Cup, I think it was. Wow, Portsmouth. Portsmouth? Yeah, Portsmouth. At Plough Lane. We had a free kick. I think Kevin Gage took the free kick. It was saved by Alan Knight, the goalkeeper, but he'd parried it out. And it was one of those ones where we got a chance of scoring, I think it was Corky, and Cawky flew in, got the ball, got Nightsey as well. So we go one nil up and Knightsie hurt his knee and he's rubbing his knee from kick off, so they're kick off. So without attaching the ball, it's gone back, back, and Noel Blake was a centre half. He's just tur turn played the ball blind. Knights he's rubbing his knee and the ball just rolls back to the back of the neck. Turn me up. Unbelievable. I can't believe that's true. Okay. Now this one. That's reminding me of things. I've grew up in the shadow of Anfield. I just remember my uncle used to tell me a story and he swears that once at Anfield, he saw you find like a gold chain, like in the mud. It's like a really boggy mud. And you reached down and you pulled out like a big like gold chain. And we always took the piss out of him. We're like Dave Hessen's not like a mudler. What he couldn't see, I I had one of those metal detectors down the sleeve. Because the amount of coins that are thrown at goalkeepers, I could I could be a on my way to making my first million. But you don't remember finding the chain. I don't remember finding a chain, but there was like I say some of the things that I'd had thrown at me during my time. Um Range from a dart. A dart a snooker ball. A battery and not the batteries that little but you know, remember the square battery with the s with the coils. Yeah. And obvious obviously that you know, like two Ps quite you know you can't throw them with any great accuracy because they they're a bit light so the heavier the coin the easier it's gonna fly straight. So someone you know like fifty peas pound coins will always be thrown in the back of the goal. It's quite that's the hard thing about being a goalkeeper isn't it just the proximity to the crowd. You're having a stand there, especially as some maybe someone like the Dell or something Was there any grounds you found really intimidating that you hated going to millwall? The old den. Oh the old den used to come out behind the the tunnel was behind the goal and you'd come out and and then when the book because they were fenced off I think they were fenced off before you needed fences. And um would go over the the bar into them lot and then you think oh no And they'd be standing there with a ball in their hand. Yeah. And you'll be saying, Well, we'll throw it over then. No, no, come and get it. And that's how that's how it would be, you know, like it was it was always like a a standoff and in the end you'd another ball be thrown on the pitch and then as you're about to take a goal kick, throw the ball back over again. Right. Do you want to do this final one? Yeah, this final one from uh Desmond. I think I might remember this. I read this and thought okay, I think I th I think this happened. It's from Desmond Pugh. Hi chaps. I've listened to every episode and wanted to see if this would be mentioned. As a fan of nineties football and Saturday night TV, I remember watching Noel Edman's House Park as a kid and the show having a segment where people at home would phone up and could fire a ball via some sort of machine at a Premier League goalkeeper and won cash for every penalty scored. Do I remember this right, that Nottingham Forest goalkeeper Dave Bessant appeared on one of the last shows before Noel's party was axed by the BBC and had several of these shots fired at him and he couldn't get anywhere near them. The contestants scored every single shot. The show aired on the same day that Nottingham Forest lost 8-1 to May United in ninety nine. And to make things worse even and even more hilarious, Noel was taking the piss out of Bessant saying things like, We should have bookmarked Crossley and it's not Carl and York facing you now. Did this happen? Regards Desmond. I can remember being on the show. I can't remember um because it wasn't you know do you remember again you like won't remember. They had the g a thing called the Golden Shot. Yeah. On the camera on the camera. They were yeah, they were blindfolded and they'd be told what to do. The same thing would happen. These these people on the TV can see what's going on, but I can't see where this thing's aiming. Right, right. And then they put it in the top aim in the top corner and then it's this machine would fire the ball and it's only from about ten yards And it fired the ball in anything Oh what was that? And that's exactly what happened. The balls were flying all over the place. I can't remember whether it's on the the day of that there's it I definitely wouldn't have gone out then, so it couldn't have been filming. No, it it might have been air that day, I don't know. But uh but no the filming was done during the week but No, it was one of those things that you just didn't have a clue the ball was going, but it probably did. And did you do You Bet as well with Saturday Night TV. See this is all Eric Hall. It was Eric Hall your age in eventually. Yeah, because this is what happened after the after the Cup final he became, you know I got the movie, became the agent. But he I'll say he was a T V, he was a celebrity, so all these evening game shows, I was doing them all. They're all the things that I some of those things I look back at thinking, you know, why did I do those? Wow, it's been amazing talking to you, Dave. We always are end with the same question. We should take it back further. Yeah. We usually would you like if we give gave you the option of going back to the first of January nineteen ninety, would you? But I think, you know the crazy gang has such a great time in the eighties. What about the first of January nineteen eighty? If I offered you the chance to go back now and do it all again from the first of January nineteen eighty, would you? If if I knew it was gonna be as it was, no problem at all. I'd go I'd I'd go back there and I'd I'd be there yesterday. You know, but this is the thing, like say you know, Wimbledon couldn't be Wimbledon today. It was of his age. It it definitely was, yeah. Yeah. I mean I said when I s when just lastly, when I signed I just started playing, you know, from school the amateur football and seventeen I just started to enjoy a social life. Started to have the beer with the boys. And then when I signed pro, is I say it was a thing I'd always wanted to do was play professional football. And that I had one little doubt. I was thinking, my social life is gonna change now. I just started to, you know, understand a few things, women and things like that. I said it's gonna change. My social life got better. Perfect. Dave Bessant, thank you very much. It was Dave Besson. I got lost in his eyes and I'm not a lovely man. Genuinely afterwards sculpt. You couldn't stop smiling, you said I just I had the best time. It was so much fun. It's the only time we've ever overran our time at the podcast studio. He didn't even scratch on the surface. Of his time at Southampton. And I think as well, I always thought the Crazy Gang is like they're quite hard men. I mean, essentially they're a gang of bullies, really, and that's the thing. And I came out of this loving the crazy gang. Yeah, Dave was a normal he's a normal guy, wasn't he? It wasn't like you can see how it'd be so great to be a part of that gang that it actually, you know, he's an he'd like he's just struck skull they'd have eaten you for fucking breakfast. Mate, you wouldn't have you wouldn't have got party initiative. They'd absolutely have sniffed you out of the floor before you knew it. Wait, would you have got in the skit? I don't think I've ever got out. He had um He had massive hands, which is not surprising as a goalkeeper, but I've got quite big hands and when I shook his hand, I felt like a child. Could I just say, I didn't want to mention this at the time. I don't remember when we used to have wicker skips. Yes! I was like, okay, I'm not gonna It's not a point to bring up now, but I don't remember the wicker skipping. I applaud you for being brave enough to admit that, because I didn't know what it was on about. I just seemed you two nodding along that. But wasn't it gonna go what the hell are you talking? How does a wicker skip work? Because surely people bid in like metal and it's not strong enough. How'd you make a wicker skip? He's gone back on that when Wood and Grove and gone, I thought the Wickers Skip joke on him. Dennis Wise met him with tenor that you can't get wicker skips into the wrong. It's like um pain when the England team were dropping uh song lyrics in. It's one of those um wicker skips. Not the thing. If you've ever seen a wicker skip, do get in touch and this is how. Get in touch with the show. Email hello atquicleykevin.com Follow us on Facebook and Twitter at QuicklyKevin. and sign up to the mailing list at quicklykevin.com. Okay, quiz this week, Michael? Yeah, it's a familiar favourite starting eleven. You all know the deal by now. Chris and Josh face off against each other. In a game where they pick the players from the starting eleven of a famous game from the 90s. Now in this instance we're going to roll back slightly in honour of our guest today, Dave Bessant. And the match in question is, of course, the 1988 FA Cup final. Wimbledon versus Liverpool. The winner gets to pick which song plays out of the end of the show. And Chris, you are going to go first. be shocked if you don't win this, Josh. Well, we've got a lot of information today on it. Yes. Steve Nickel. Correct. Dave Bessant. Correct. Vinny Jones. Correct. Steve McMahon. Correct. John Aldridge. Correct. There's a world in which you can. Laura Sanchez. Correct. Bruce Grobler? Correct. John Barnes? Correct. Um We had Laurie Sanchez? Yeah. Um Dennis Wise. Correct. We had fashion the batch. We have not. Correct. I feel like this is a an acceptable standard of game now. Yeah. Yeah. I think we've done well there. Um Peter Beardsley. Correct. You know in Territory where most of these other ones you're not getting now. It's basically sudden death, I think. I mean, you're now in territory where someone might have been injured. Yes. Do you know what I mean? So, we've had Dave Bessant. We've no Wimbledon defenders. We've had in the midfield we've had Dennis Wise and Vinny Jones. Yep. And we've got John Fashion up front. Yeah. Aldred and Bearsley up front. Yep. Barnes. Yep. McMahon. Nickel. Yep. And Grabola. Correct. Alan Hansen Correct. Have we said Liverpool's right midfielder? We have not. Ray Helton. Correct. Oh, top work. This is great, isn't it? Okay. So I d I'm not confident on any other Liverpool players. So I'm gonna move on to the Wimbledon team. I wanna say Eric Young. You want to, but are you going to? Yeah. Correct. Oh Wow, that's a deep pull. I wouldn't have got Eric out. He was a centre back, wasn't he? He used to wear headbands. It was yeah, centre back. Number five. Good numbers and uh. We said Wimbledon's right back. You have not. Oh, I know who you're going for. Am I I don't even know if this is something Dave Bessant said. Neil Webb. Is that what you say? No. Incorrect. Skull's lost a life. Oh, is that all a lie? Terry Phelan? Correct. Oh He's got him on the ropes now. With not many Liverpool left. Is Nickel a defender or midfielder? He is a right back. So there's a centre back and a left back and a midfielder left, yeah? For Liverpool you've been missing one centre back, a left back and the centre midfielder. You've obviously got substitutes what you could get, but you can't pick again. Uh and then for Wimbledon, you have the right back. Another centre back and the right winger and a centre forward. How likely are we to get any of these players? Uh I would be surprised if you got you definitely won't get two of the three Liverpool players because I think you won't remember them or they're not synonymous with that Liverpool team. There is one women and player who was mentioned during the interview with Dave Bessant. I've got a go on that. I'm gonna have a go at it. I'm gonna Oh is my go? It's Chris to win it. Wally Downs. Oh He was mentioned. He was mentioned. He was not part of that school. Yeah. Like victory lap punts. Yep. Andy Thorne, he mentioned. Correct. Wow. He mentioned it. I had no idea. That's the other centre back. Right? Too early for now. Was it Gary Ablet? Gary Ablett wow. Yeah, correct. There's the left back for Liverpool. So what we're looking for, Liverpool centre back. Yeah, the yeah, Alan Hamton's defensive partner. No idea. was Gary Gillespie. Oh yeah. And then the other centre midfielder for Liverpool. Must be big. Michael Thomas, no. Nigel Spackman. Nigel Spackman. Really? There we go. And then the right back who gave away the penalty for Wimbledon, who was mentioned, was uh Clyde Goodyear. And Right winger Alan Cork. Alan Cork and the other centre forward was Terry Gibson. And then substitutes for Wimbledon, John Scales. And Laurie Cunningham. Subs for Liverpool, Craig Johnson, and yeah, Mulbey. Absolutely great. Mul very strong. Astonishing to think Mulbey was not picked and Sparkman was So Josh, as the winner you get to pick out which song? Wambods. I just want the Wimbledon nineteen eighty eight FA Cup song. Or would you have preferred like as Dave Bessant wanted the Wombled Wimbledon. Oh yeah, much better. Let's go with that instead. Ground on the ground We find things at the everyday folks we behind Uh Max Rushton. I'm David O'Daherty. And we'd like to invite you to listen to our new podcast, What Did You Do Yesterday. It's a show that asks guests the big question. Quite literally, What did you do yesterday? That's it. That is it. Max, I'm still not sure where do we put the stress, is it what did you do yesterday? What did you do yesterday? You know what I mean? What did you do yesterday? I'm really downplaying it. Like what did you do yesterday? Like I'm just I'm just a guy just asking a question. But do you think I should go bigger? What did you do yesterday? What did you do yesterday? Every single word this time I'm gonna try and make it like it is the killer word. What did you do yesterday? Like that's too much, isn't it? That is that's over the top. What did you do yesterday? Available wherever you get your podcasts every Sunday.