Saru and Star Trek Discovery

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He's literally wearing them right now on his amazing Eur old trip that he's been on And Quint has so much to offer that two guys with totally different styles can find plenty of options for wardrobe and clothing Their tees are also soft enough to literally live in all day And somehow everything at Quince is literally fifty to eighty percent cheaper than similar brands They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen so you're paying for exceptional quality, not the brand markup Make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to quince d. com slash riders for free shipping on your order and three hundred sixty five day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I N C E . com slash Riders for free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Qince d. com slash Raiders Hey babes, it's Paris Hilton. so I was checking my points balance in the Hilton Honors app the other day. and yeah, I've got about a billion, which feels excessive. E for me. Just kidding, you can never have too many Hilton Honors points. And I want to do something iconic this summer, so I'm giving away all my Paris points. Just find somewhere you've always wanted to stay, then go to my socials or Hilton's and tell me about it. Just make sure you're a Hilton Honors member and I might be sending you Paris points because when you want points that make your summer even hotter, it matters where you stay Yes, I was going to be the monster in Frankenstein When he first announced it to the public back in two thousand eight. I was in my forties then, I'm in my sixties now. When I saw the Pan's labyrinth sculpture the Maquette, I saw the legs going. And I was like, am I gonna have to hold my leg in that position with some kind of prosthetic down to the? How's that work? When you are offered the silver sururfer in the Fantastic Force Squel then you say yes Doug Jones, thank you for joining the show today, a man who needs no introduction. We have a bunch of your. So I don't get one Well, all right, then. We've all been such fans of yours for such a long period of time. No we had to showcase some of our favorites from your career along the set. Quite shocked at the collection you have put together here of some well known titles and some obscure ones. Yeah, I mean, we had to do a little bit of everything because you've meant so much to so many people, I think culture and film in general and so many great collaborations with great artists as well. And so you just meant so much to the film community So thank you so much for your contributions to cinema. Well, than you for thinking I've contributed Jack anything. Oh. And there's so much to talk about, but I'm curious. Doug, what kinds of movies do you like? What are your mo Do you go to the theater often?? I used to go to the theater all the time when there was time Um Okay, this is my love is outside the genre that I've played in. I love Rom coms. Okay. Okay. I love I love the Hallmart channel. I love their Christmas movies Happy endings, feel good. like you know how I discovered the Hallmark channel, I'll tell you. was on it was on the I was I was filming Doom the movie Doom with Duayne the Rock Johnson and Carl Urban and then Roseman Pike U we were filming in Prague in the Czech Republic and I was like, ye I was four different imp creatures in that movie. So I'm in heavy makeups and going those giant prosthetic suits And threatening people all day. And so at the end of those days to come back to the hotel and go And there I found the Hllmark channel. Like I didn't know Hallmark had a channel. This is back, you know, it is two thousand four Oh, and it was feel good, happy endings, everything's resolved in the end. The worst thing that happens is a little misunderstanding. So it's like the stakes are low and Everyone's home for Christmas. I like feel good. Yeahah. toe tapping. And I grew up on sitcoms and musicals and so all the happy feel goodoods. I grew up on sitcoms to an extent like I have five brothers, so we watch a lot of TV and film. fiveive. I'm the youngest ty. I'm thengest of four. but I'm wow. All boys. All boys. manan did you get beat up a lot like I did? Not beat up. Mentally tormented, yes. You know what I'm saying? They' more like this. I got both. It was nuts. So I watched a lot of TV, tons of sitcoms. I think I grew up mostly on like everybody loves Raymond Queens was great. That was like my era that I loved. But then like whenever mom got the TV would our dad would makes letter, it'd be like X files or CSI constantly. Oh, okay, okay. She wanted to figure stuff out. Yeah Yeah ye. I think the last one was a theater on my own that I paid a ticket for was Frankenstein. Garel D Toros, is Frankenstein which was a brilliant piece of art. And and before right before that I saw re a redo of love actually. Okay. I just chatted with Martin Freeman yesterday. Oh, so yeah, was was a delightful. Oh, good good new movie Let's Love which you would love. Is it up my alley there? Yeah Amazon, you can rent it. It's a they didn't pay me for this plug, but You would love it. It's just very charming, very indie British comedy ro. I watch those on planes all the time and he's perfect in those counts Yeah good stuff QQuestion about Gimo to start off like with him and his career and how you guys have collaborated so much. Do you think that you and Gamo Dl Toro meeting was fate Well, yeah sure. yeah, I think notothing is by accident, I think, in this world. I think God places the right people and the right timing in front of me. I'm sixty six now, so I can look back on a lifetime of that. So I do believe. And meeting Germma was a life changing for me because I didn' that man single handedly changed my life and my career, certainly Um it was Mimic nineteen ninety seven. And right behind you. There's mimic Oh yeah thanks. I they had done a they' had filmed principal photography of Mimic up in Toronto And now they were two weeks before the movie opened in theaters, they needed to get some additional footage and wedge some scenes in there to make it flow better. and the guy Giant cockroaches took over the subways of New York. Yeah. there's your premise. And so they needed someone to play the bug guy in L.A. for pickup shoots And their Canadian actor, Tallskinny guy would have to be flown in, work permitted because he wasn't American, hoteled per damned and salaried. So much cheaper to get somebody local. So out comes the tall skinny Rolodecks. Doug Jones, let's give him a call. So that's because the creature shop relationship I already had by then. All the creature shops in town knew who I was by then. And so Rick Lazzerinis shop called and said, Hey, are you free tonight So I went downtown L.A and stood on the top of a four story brick building, looked over the edge and had rain pelting on me in this kind of like bug human sort of hybrid suit And um And that was a rap. And then I worked two more days on it. But it was day two that I that Garel L Torre was sitting across the lunch table from me And and he put his he said So tell me everything you've been in before. And I was like, o, so I had to list off my entire career up to that point to him. And he like And he knew all of it Oh yeah, he knew all the makeup artists I'd worked with and knew of them anyway And I told him about Hoccus Poccus. He o Oh, that Tony Gardner did not make up right. Is a nice guy? And so I'm talking to a twelve year old fan boy. basically. I like he's different than any director I've ever worked with before. I like him before that meeting was over, he said, you have do you have a card And I did have a business card back in the days when we carried those, right? inststead of bumping phones or whatever we do now. And and I had a hand drawing of myself on it doing this with my phone number hanging over my teeth. So a drawing that you did? It's a drawing I did. Yeah, I'll have to I don't know where that is now. I'm sure I scanned it somewhere, but it's an old card U and he looked at it and went, Oh, it was great. put it in his wallet And then five years later he called me I got a call from another creature shop for the first Hellboy movie. Garan was directing that. So That's how it all started and when when Del Tor is the kind of a director when he has a talent that that He works well with and trusts and collaborates well with. He'll keep you in the barn with all the other animals for a while. Have you done any of his paint nights, The figurines I've heard so many stories about?, like he does those. That's his hobby. rightight. Yeah. I have not done any of those painting projects myself. one and they said they went to it one time and like JJ Abrams was there and just like a really big cloud of like Hollywood directors and stuff, like just painting with Guiro. Everyone just nerd now. I know's so it's so incredible.. I love Guaro's films and he almost did two big franchises that I'm so curious about. He almost you got offered Harry Potter, Prison of Vaskan, I know that. And then he was obviously heavily in development on the Hobbit turned down Jackson. Yeah. Do you think you would have had roles in those films if you ever did them I didn't never heard about Harry Potter tntil just now. so that wasself on to do it. That must have been a quiet one then So Hobbit, yes, there was talk. He told me casually, I don't know we were doing an appearance together like at a comic con somewhere And uh All this hobbit talk had been in the news a lot and for years. He was in development there for like, hey He spent two years of his life working on pre production on that. And so He said, Yeahah, yeah, yeah's I got a part for you and I got a part for Ron, Ron Parlman.. And that's all I heard And I said, and what would what would that be? I don't want to tell you because you know, if it doesn't come through Then I don't want you to kill yourself. So I had no idea what he had in mind for me because then he ended up not directing it. and then all the talk of Ron Plman and me went away. So I don't have a clue. I'm so curious what that would have been like, but I could see you definitely playing like a deemmentor in Harry Potter or move in I could see that happen Okay. And it seems like obviously like the early twentieth centy So many big A listers and big movie stars are attracted to monster movies, you know Carloff and Cheney. and then what do you think happened in the mid century later where it became less attractive for big stars to do that, but it's kind of coming back. And that's coming back now, right. I think we had a it's done it's been cyclical Yeah, monsters used to be allowed to be movie stars back in the Black and white era, right? And then then it turned into a monster was just like an An unknown guy in a suit chasing exantily clad teenagers down a hallway, right And then so Del Toro, I think is one of those directors who brought monsters back to leading leading roles romantic roles, sympathetic roles So that's that's been the difference is is finding the humanity in a monster and letting them lead the story. And the real monster in the movie might be a human who's gone off the rails.. we're seeing big stars go back to monsters. I mean, Christopher Abbott with Wolf Man a couple of years ago I don't know if you saw that version of the Wolf Man, but tons of prosthetic work. And then obviously Jacob doing Frankenstein. Were you ever involved with Frankstein? Because I know Dam was developing that for years. Well, there's an hour a half story right there The short version is, yes, I was going to be the monster in Frankenstein when he first announced it to the public back in two thousand eight. I was in my forties then. I'm in my sixties now. And as he puts, his vision for the monster for the story had changed dramatically over the time that it was, you He sat on it for a while, developed it for a while with Universal, then that that felled out. And then It was on the shelf for a while and he brought it back. and I don't know what his process was in the meantime, but aboutb seventeen years after he first talked to me about it uh, now he's making the film and And and he told me, it was very kind to tell me that yeah, it's going to be Jacob Lordi. by that time I'm in my mid sixties and I'm thinking,, that's great. Let that kid have it, you know. I him sit in the chair for eleven hours. He'd had a ten hour makeup application for just the loin clloth look. Yeah. was that was on the day, right? That wasn't like test That was on the day from what he from what Jacob said. Yeah, yeah yeah. So I'm happy to miss that. That's great. And and you know, when I was on Star Trek disiscovery, I That show was seen five seasons of daily, you know, aliening. And when that finally came off at the end of the when that show wrapped, I was like, you know, I think I'd like to play humans No. So I've been leaning into the human roles now. I'll never say never about the monsters. If the right role, the right director, the right salary, let's be honest, comes along. I'd be happy to For instance, if a Hoccus Pocus three comes back around. mean Absolutely, I would play Billy again in a heartbeat. But that's also head and hands. It's pretty easy to he's human. He's just dead. Yeah So but But yeah, there was The vision and when I saw Frankenstein, it's like, oh, that was a younger person's movie, not mine And Guermo said to me, I needed a boy because the father's son dynamic that was in the movie, he really needed someone that an audience could connect with the boyhood in that monster And also his connection to Mia Gotham the story. There was like a young sort of almost love interest that was happening That would have been weird. I'm gonna be grandather. You know I'm saying? So? Yeahah it was a chice goodood choice. Yeah I think he did a great job. He did curious to see another monster movie coming out at the end of the year, wereerewolf R Egis film Aaron Taylor Johnson playing the wereerewolf. and I'm sure he's going to go very practical because obviously with Nosferatu going heavily practical, you've played Nosferatu as well And you can we talk about that for min? My Nosferatu movie was in the works for about nine years. I mean, we filmed it on an indie budget for, you know, over like a long time ago And then they finally released it on Amazon and Apple TV months before Robert Egggers's Nosfratu comes out. So and I told people, yeah, I'm in a remake of Nosfratu. Oh, I've seen an advert. No, you have not seen mine. That's the bigger one with a bigger name. Bill Scars's got another younger, hotter actor than me, whatever. So But they were very different Nosfratu. Yeah. Yeah Egg was Bill Skarsgard's version was was more like corpsy and u and Russiany looking and big mustache and like not and I was the pointy eared bucktooth, you know. The classic version. Ys is more of kind of like a shot for shot remake, right? Sene for scene, at least. ye remake of the original silent film, but with sound and dialogue and musical score and but we were filmed on green screen for most of it, and then that was filled in with original film footage. Oh that. So they mixed old and new for ours. It was an art piece, ours was. Yeah, it was interesting when you do remakes, but like that style like Psycho and Gus Vincent did that with Vince Vaughn. I thought it was pretty interesting in the way he reed. That was actually shot for shot, though, amm I right? ye. prettyt much, But obviously like more contemporary set design. Yeah. It was an interesting way to see the film Yeah. Do you see yourself as a successor to those old classic monster stars? Well, I always felt so humbled. peopleeople have equated me with the old stars a lot. Yeah He's the Boris Carlo of today. He's the Laon Cheney of today. I've heard that a lot and it always humbles me like,h, I'm not worthy to be in the same sentence with those iconic names. but They're doing a documentary about me right now. another thing I don't think I'm worthy of at all. That's called Get M Doug Jones. It's still in the works. Um, They interviewed, they surprised. I haven't been I I'm not involved in the production, hardly at all. They haven't even interviewed me for it yet. I know but they've gotten co stars, directors, makeup artists. We're moving on to friends and family now. They're going to be coming on my family vacation this summer with us. Oh my. going. Virginia Beach Don't come looking for us. But they're going they're going to come for one day of that week and film my family and me. There's going be twenty seven people under one roof in the Jones Klan. there It's going to be Cig Cig. So anyway They're gathering a lot of my life together And they they scored an interview with Ron Cheney, Lon Cheney Senr's great grandson and Lon Cheney Junr. Grandson, right Uh so while interviewing him, and I' never we've've only seen each other on the socials. He. never met him in person and he was very kind to say nice things about mearent. I haven't seen interview yet and I'm not I shouldn't until it's out. but They asked him while he was being interviewed Uh, you know, Doug is often equated with with your withith your great grandfather, he's the Lon Chaney of today Do we have the family's blessing to actually make that official? He said, abbsolutely yes. So have I have the Cheney family's blessing call to be called the Lon Cheney today. It's deserved Come. I'm humbled beyond words to even hear such a thing. Lon's son was the werewolf too, right? Yeah, Lon Cheny junror was werewolf. Yeahah. correct. Cee Yeah I mean, it's only fair, especially the characters you've played that are so iconic. I mean, Pan H labyrinth It's my favorite Gammel film. I think it's an absolute masterpiece And I remember the first time I saw that film, I was so terrified the fawn because of the mystery behind the fawn. G up his good or evil Yeah. is great performance and great acting like Is he evil? Is he coming after Affilias it's all real and I thought it was a fcinating performers in the Pal M is too I think B such iconic performances for you in one movie that will just live on forever in cinema. No, you're so okay. Thankk you. Pan's Labyrinth and the Sape of water are the two that like are neck and neck for my favorite movie I've ever been in largely not not just because of the story of the characters I played, but also the whole ride that it went on that took me on throughrough awward season and the shelf life they both had and the fan response to them U people have such an emotional response to both of those movies for different reasons. I One is one is the childhood triumph of, you know An underdog coming out on top at the end and the other is like romance. there's romance involved and is love possible for even monsters Yeah RC Mved to tears, just hearing the theme for Aphelia for Pen It just crushes me Exactly. the time I have to admit sometimes the workload of the podcast can get overwhelming with All the recording, the editing, we go to a lot of events, travel a lot and I get burnt out quite a bit. and I think that's where it's important to consider therapy and talking to somebody In finding a therapist, it's already hard enough Eespecially when the takes are insurance and that's where Rula comes into play because other therapy platforms fall short, but Rula doesn't. They do things differently. They partner with over a hundred insurance plans to make an average c pay of just fifty dollars fif per session It's real therapy, licensed professionals at a price that really makes sense. Ruula considers your goals, your preferences, the background of yourself to provide you a curated list of licensed in network therapists who are actually align with what you need. Go to rula. com slash Raiders to get started today. that's Rula d. com slash Raiders for quality therapy that's covered by insurance. Ruula is committed to seeing you succeed in reaching your therapy goals, making that Their therapy providers are carefully screened and veted monitoring the quality of their care and helping you monitor your progress in therapy Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance. Visit rula. com slash riders to get started after you sign up. You'll be asked how you heard about them, Please support our show. And let them know we sent you. That's RuLA. com slash riders You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget So what was the process like for playing Pan? I know That was maybe the most mecochgnized suit you had with all the moving parts. probably. One of ye. That was There's a delineation between suit and makeup. and this was a combination of both. Sit you slip on zip up the back. Makeup glued onto or painted onto your skin This was a bit of both And it came the suit came on in pieces several pieces that together and distributed weight differently around my body and And and I had stilt feet that I was about seven feet tall. So I was up in the air bit at an angle clumping around on kickick bigig metal bits. I And then the neck and had were part makeup down here, a latex skin that glued ono me that went over then a mechanical top part of the head With eyes that were out here, I was looking through little tear ducks with no peripheral vision And um and then and then There were mechanics built into the head because since I couldn't operate my own eyes, they were squinty, blinky, blinky and eyebrow movement. and then the ears went And all that was puppeteered by people off camera. So that meant there had to be electronical servos and battery packs in this head. So the horns came out to here. and they were stuffed with batteries and gears and things. So It was so heavy. It was so heavy and U During rehearsals, I could work with little Ivana Macero. She was eleven years old at the time, playing Aphelia. And I'm seven feet tall. She's two fe tall, that's the height difference, I had to crouch a lot. My thigh's got to workout on that one. and memorizing Rams of Spanish dialogue. I don't speak Spanish. so that was the hardest thing I've ever done. My brain had to be very sharp every day because of that and my body had to be able to handle the physical challenges too. So it was like a That was probably the hardest thing I've ever done. And when I got through it, I was like, that's the proudest I've ever been of completing a performance. You know? I think it's your most remarkable work. No very kind of you. Every time I watch, I always pick up on new things Do you ever like obviously it's tough to go through the suit process, I'm sure and I'm sure you get used to it after a while, but do you ever miss it sometimes? Kning Or like a question is. I'm curious. You know? Why would you ask that? You never know.' into. Butah, it's funny because when I have young actors approach me like, I would really wantan to do what you do, It's like so much fun Day one is fun The rest of it is like again. But here's the thing. pain is temporary, film is forever. Yeah. So you realize that you are this is a sacrifice you're making to create a piece of immortal art. that's forever. It's so important what you do and what you've done with your career. Obviously you're leaning more towards human characters and playing yourself But still what you and Jeremo have done and all the other filmmakers you've collaborated with with the advent of CGI and so easy to just CGI the monster, which obviously blind prractical and TGI often to make a seamless transition of a real character Right. Were you ever worried about CGI kind of taking over monst rols? I mean, where would we be without someone like Eamel Dol Toro and you? We're all afraid of that for a minute there When CGI was was, you know, getting better and it was an easy answer to go, well, we'll just CG that. you know A lot of creature Fs makeup designers and actors who play them were like going, And so a lot of shops went dark for a minute the audience, thank heaven, the audience wasn't quite buying at all. You know, peopleeople like to watch other people And people liked to watch something real that was in the camera, you know You can feel it. You can feel it and it looks like a video game sometimes. know, and you're like,, I'm not conecting my soul's not connecting to that characters in some way, you know? So So thank you for the audience stepping up and speaking up. And to thank heaven for directors like Gamin L Toro, who will do anything practical that he can. He'll often say, if a character is too big or too giant or too tiny, that's when he'll employ CG Now, I've played characters for him and for others that blend the two. For instance, Abe Sapiian from the Hellboy movies Hi Am u The A again, eyeballs that were out here, when I was looking through tear ducks on that too with these big fish eyes And and it was tight enough to the head that you could not work mechanics into there. there's no way to puppeteer those eyes to blink or move around in any way. So they were just kind of like just stuck there in my face. So that means post production animation had to happen with CG. And that would mean brow movement and blinking. well actually blinking that went this way. I think it was it was a bl bl. And the same thing with the shape of water. That was another static face that had to be animated in post production just from here up to give it give it some life. And it was a perfect blend. The CG was not overdone. They didn't over expxpress. and they worked in unison and in concert with me they took a hint off of a tilt of the head or a gesture of the hand and then did something with the face that would match that timeless. Yeah, ye. than you. Yeah. Yeah. It's like Jurassic Park. I mean, Yeah, the CGI still holds up pretty well. It It really does. Yeah sells it more than anything is when you get the practical rator, when you get the practical T rex head. That's what's seing the CGI better versus just an entirely CGI. Yes. Sometimes it's impossible. you can have giant creatures like you said, might be pr galloping down a hall down a mountains side. Yeah. Exactly. But when you blend the two it's so seamless and they complement each other so well So I think it's just done so well. Besides Guillermo, is there another filmmaker, spepecial effects makeupar or someone who's been so integral to your career and what you do Well Well, the creature affects people I wouldn't have a career without them. When I first started One of my first gigs was the Mac tonight campaign for McDonald'. Crescent Moon Yeah. when the clock strikes, Hey, at that six babe. Those Crescent Moon sunglasses on a face. cial massive ye Yeah. It was huge. Yeah a ten pound head like there there. So I got that from a commercial audition through my commercial agent back in the eighties And um campaign employed lots of creature Fects people. Steve Neil, who ran the He had his own creature shop in his garage. He's one who formatted sculpted and created the mooonhead, but then he needed to borrow people from other shops to do the commercial shoots. And when you're doing we did twenty seven commercials in a three year period, so we borrowed a lot of people in that time from a lot of different shops that would work with me for a couple of days and then go back to that other shop to continue working on a movie or TV show So as they saw conceptual art come through that was tall and skinny, and they'd be like, Hey, I just worked with that guy, you know? So I got the referral process started early on. So I owe everything. I've circumvented the casting process for most of my career that you're aware of happened through a phone call to somebody know or a referral from a creature person who said to a producer, we got the perfect guy for this And the producer excuse me. And the producer might say, Oh, well you guys know better than me do I get them. So my career happen kind of by accident that way. I never sought to do monsters. Again, I grew up on sitcoms and musicals. You weren't a kid watching all the monster movies I want to do that. Well I watched him I was like, o wow, that creature from the Black Lagoon was like, wow. and Boris Karloff is Franklenstein and the mummy And really, really just ye, I did watch monsters and love them, but but but as far as what I thought I could do. I was more the Dick Van Dyke, the the Don Knots Goofy Barney Fife kind of characters, Gomer Pyle, Gilgan's Island well, that's where I belong. And so I kind of got side swiped with noope, monsters, you know happened to Sarah in a lot of ways because Sarah was working on production, but then the actress or the stunt double not hurt. The actress Yeah so then yeah, you can tell a story. Yeah. So I was working on I was a First team PA on that set, I believe. And the actress blew her knee out and I just happened to look like her. I have a very athletic background. So they were like, oh, well, let's just throw Sarah in and that's how I got into stunts. And you were a PA at the time? That was a PA. Oh my dog. Yeah. ye. ow That's he got started in stunts? That's how I got started. Yeah, I never thought that stunts would be a viable career for me, but now here I. talkalk about sideswik.. Here we go. Yeah kind of go with it, you know. Yeah, that's great. It worked out so well. She's stunt coordinator as well. Right, right, right, Yeah. So some happy accidents, was it an accident really was? W Nancy Carrigan hurt? Yeah. She was meant to be. There's a pipe over there What's the blood on the ground? Do you consider yourself kind of speaking of Nancy Cerrian as a professional Segue. Segue. I love ice skating. Yeah. How did you know? Do you consider yourself as a professional athlete? I would view you as one as a well. Well, that's very kind of you. I never thought of that. have I have often been quoted saying But when playing monsters and creatures, you do have to think like an actor as well as an athlete, yes. because stamina is a part of your day, whether you like it or not Um, so being in the best shape you can be in and being ready for whatever the creature calls for U you need to have worked out in a way that will take that to film with the heavy makeup and costume on. our neck must be so strong Skinny as it is. Yeah, I know. but can I do specific neck exercises? yes, because I've warned you those ten pound heads and when you're in it all day and you have to emote and move it around with some kind of purpose U yeah the muscle has to be there I'm curious about something. When you get cast in a role and you get your creature that you're going to play andselfuff, what does your process look like for developing your creature and like building up your stamina or figuring out what workouts you need to do? That is a great question. Yeahah. First of all, I approach roles in films as an actor first So the athlete part has to be added in, but I have to begin as an actor and I have to continue the acting all the way through the project That means internalizing. So I get my information from my script U That has everything you need in it as far as like backstory and writer's intention and you get and how you relate to other characters in the film, it's all in there And then you'll get the director's vision. A sit down with the director ahead of time is golden. If I can discuss nuances and idiosyncrasies that the director wants to see,, good okay. So for instance, for Pan's Labyrinth Dil Toro told me Dggie U I want you to study the hind quarter of barn animals Okay, so what he meant was like look at the back end of a cow or a goat and see how their hoofves kind of meet the ground How do they disperse their weight? How do they shake off flies? So you'll see a couple of times in Pan's Labyrinth where the fawn character will k clunk clunk and do one of these. That's because of that note So that's part of the process is a director's notes and a director's vibe Th then in my t shirt and shorts, I'll go to a dance studio or twenty four hour fitness after they've closed or after the classes are done for the day and have like a full dance floor and mirrors to myself. And that's when I go, okay, how does this thing move? What's the home stance what did the script call for? I have to lunge, I have to crawl on all fours, I have to walk up right So I have to find the posture and we have lots of movable parts on us from head to toe. and using them in combination with each other can change everything So Uh even if I'm playing a guy in t shirt and jeans and if I'm playing a human or creature Every human that we play as an actor has a different ecosystem, a different movement, a different different different body language, you know, different visuals to give off. So U do they carry their their hips curled forward? Do they carry their hips swayed back Are the shoulders slumped in? or the shoulders proud? There's a lot is the neck forward? Is the neck back? you know, there's so many different thingsings that can change uh, your gait and your stance. So I work on all that in a mirror And u and with and then I will have seen concept art by this point too, so I'll see like, okay, I remember there being horns on the head or finger extensions out to here. So what can be done with the hands that will like be enhanced by that length? What can be done with the tilt of the head that can make, you know, that the horns can acccentuate So I'll look at all that. and then then the Creature effects, makeup and costume fittings begin. and you get called in several times before the movie starts filming. I might put one piece on you at a time and then just to fit it out and like, o we molded this piece and let's can't do do the hands fit. Does the head fit? do? Does the do the hips thing? Do that work? how these stilts work? I thing. so an example for that would be the first Hellboy movie. They're developing Abe sapien and The first thing that they had completed on me after running body casts of me was they had gloved hands fitted that kind of came only to he. so that they could see my actual wrist painted blue so it had more personality and more more fluid movement. If that was all covered with rubber, it would have wrinkled funny and been more bulky so that they liked the skinny the skinny, you know, fluid Risk And so these gloves were to here with webbed fingers and little claws on them. And so I'm wearing those, and they also had a head piece on. So the head kind of piece went on and I was so I was shirtless with shorts on, wearing hands and a head and I had a big full length mirror in the back of the creature shop and I'm kind of looking done having done this. now, fish and man combined together. So I had watched fish in my home office tank. I had some goldfish that I loveved. and I had those goldfish because they calmed me like right? They had curious heads And they had very flowy fins, right? So I wanted to give a curious head and flowy fins to Abe Spien So I'm doing this in front of this mirror with this head and hands on and no shirt, kind of going A And from over here somewhere I heard a surprise voice That I likek that. Keep doing that. Oh my God. It was Guara Magal Tora who had snuck in and was just watching me for all without saying anything. He liked what he saw and we never discussed Abe Sapien's movement ever again over the course of two movies. Yeah. He loved what I did and didn't want to ruin it by overdirecting me. Isn't that great? Yeah Yeah, That's a director who knows what he's doing for sure. L a genius then. Yeah, yeah, yeah If the soup tastes good don't add any more spice.. Our great friends at movieposters. com sent this wonderful print of Odysseus in front of the Trojan horse. We have a coupon code with the company and they send us all of our movie posters. We have dozens and dozens from them Beautiful double sider prints that we like to get to put inside this light box, which we also got from there too makes it look like a movie theater behind me. Raiders ten, ad checkout. We'll get you tenerscent off your order at movieposters. comot plus the affiliate link in this episode description gets us a cut, a commission of the action. Let's the website know you got there because of us, they have millions and millions of prints Every movie, era, genre you could ever imagine, whatever movie or show you love, go search their website. Garantee you'll find something incredible moovieposters. comot Now what's so interesting about talking to you in person and you know Aren't I delightful? No ye. But what I mean in terms of like your physicality, especially outside of creature suits, you remind me like so much of someone like like Jim Carey the way he is able to emote so much with his physicality, with his facial expressions. and it's really impressive. Have you always been like that? or the always wanted to help or did it help those?g again, if I sat on my hands right now I'd be like I have I have nothing to say ye, no, I have to have to yeah. I worked with Jim Carey twice by the way, really. I did three episodes of in In Liv Colors. J talking about that the other. Yeah becausecause I had the director of Sccaary Mvie Six on. Oh We were talking about the Wayne brrothers. Yeah Cor and all the stars that came up from. Yeah. I did a Home of the Clown sketch with Damon Wayes, and I did two sketches with Jim Carey. One was his Virro D Milo character, and one was his background guy. If you remember there were intervs going on the foregun Gand of recurring sketches. So I I got to, u Be silly with him. on C camera for a couple of It was great. It's great. No, that's great. I don't know if like if you like comedies, I'd recommend it, especially if you like spoof movies, parody movies, it's pretty fun the new one the new sccaary. Yeah yeah, haven't y.. It looks good. Beause I love those Besides Garamo films. Yes. What was the quickest, yes, I'm doing this for this movie? I'm doing this movie. Oh, Well, when you are offered Batman Rurns and as your first big big movie credit, then yes, that was a yes. script. Who needs the script. getting hit by Danny DVito, let's do it. Yeah, Yeahah yeah. Danny DeVito, Michelle Fier Christopher Walken and Michael Keaton, of course, is Batman and being directed by Tim Burton I don't know, let me think about. Are you kidding me? Yeah, so. And I had a small partner. You'll see me in about six different scenes. I've worked on it for fourteen weeks ood, long, good, long run for me But's u Yeah that was just epic. And that's that was Superhero movies were still kind of young men. And so it was very exciting. And after the success of the first Batman movie, Batman Returns was like, o, It was announced on the radio on my way to work the first day Batman Returns begins filming today some DJs talking about it. That's how big of a deal it was. o. o. I get it. That When you are offered the silver surfer in the Fantastic four Squel, then you say yes And let's have a look at that script later. It's fine, but yes.. that's a great character for blending CG and prractical. Another a suit was Wow, it looks so excellent. and that's what two thousand five. Yeah we shot in zero six, came out in zero seven. Yeah. And so it's so long ago, but the CGI blend with the practical still holds up so well today. Yeah. I think it's so impressive. And comparing CGI to I guess AI now Is there another worry, the same kind of feel of when CGI was coming big? This feels familiar, like like when CG was you know coming on the scene, AI now feels the same way like, oh dear, there goes all of our jobs. The same scare we had back then But again, hope I hope that humanity will prevail and that people will still say we like to watch real people Be I've seen AI versions of myself out there now And they there's always something amiss, you know, so now A it's going to get better. It's going to train itself to get better, of course Um I'm assuming it's here to stay. So what does that mean to all of us? I don't know. I don't really don't have all those answers, but I sure, but I still I want to see real people having real emotion. I think AI can mimic u what what has what it has seen and studied before Can it Can it create an emotion in the moment right now I don't think so. That's for humans to do. No, I totally agree. I don't want to watch AI anything especially generative AI Be it's always, like you said, off, it's uncanny valley. You can tell it's soullless. It's empty, it'sllow. eyes, the eyes are every and the eyeelines even when they're cutting back and forth between characters they're like, Yeah I mean, we saw an AI commercial on a show the other day. instantly recognizeed it by way And it was off and it's like we were just so out of it. They didn't care at that point. Yeah. and producers chase the cheap. That's been a part of the business since the beginning. and if it's cheaper to do AI than or to have just like put in your put in your specs and have A I create the commercial for you or your Um They're going to try that first, of course, but think I hope that it fails. That's all I'm gonna say. Speaking of cheap producers Do take a while for you to really behind your name of just not just being an actor in a suit, not just being a guy covered in rubber and glue, but to get what was due to you in terms of what you're bring to performances into roles and. It's an uptill battle, yeah, from the beginning. And that, of course, he'll be discussing that in the documentary. let me tell you what Yeah, because Like you said, I was a young actor in that during that period when monsters were not movie stars. So and the misconception might be, oh, you can you can put that suit on a coat hanger. Why do we need to pay somebody Xra or give them, you know Um Main title billing with a single card in in credits if it's, you know, if a monkey could play that. Well, my answer to that was and is If a monkey could play that part, please cast that monkey. I would love to watch that movie now Talented monkey. That'd be right yeah. ye. doesn't exist. If you want to hang the suit on a hanger and film it, I'd be my guest. I'd love to watch that too. so Um, yeah, no, I it's been Yeah, it's. I think And not just not just what's on camera, but also what happens with the promotion of the movie Um, You know, oftentimes people that were under rubber bits were left out of the PR U marketing. and all that with them wouldn't have been invited to the red carpet premiere, wouldn' have been part of therest. Re? All that Yeah, yeah. I fought for all of that. I fought to get on that red carpet, I fought to get in that press junket And that's when when this face and the characters that I played started to come together for people likeking, Oh, he's the guy who did this and this So I'm very grateful to the journalists who have gone along with this with this new plan of mine and help helped pave the way for, you know, the young actors, the underobs that are coming byh me now um, that they they can now be invited to the red carpet without having to argue about it. Now you Raiders have Lost podcast, I mean, is there another Does it get better than this? seriously. Yeah. Which of your characters do you feel are is most like you everyone you played. W Oh that's stuck with you in that That Most of me is in that creature, that character Yeah. right next to you Saru from Star Trek Discovery. I mean, there's bits of me in all of these guys, even the bad guys that you have to find something to pull from Saru though was, oh golly when when that role was pitched to me by the writing team, they they were saying that he's born into fear He's the u he's a prey species on his planet and there's a predator species that's always after them And so he lives his life in fear looking over his shoulder. I'm like, I get that. I know anxiety, okay. So U and I know imposter syndrome and feeling like, you know Every script I get is one more chance to prove I can't act. You know, just I go through this all the time self effacing first thing you said when you walked in, Yeah, honestly, Yeah.. Thank you for noticing. So yeah, so Saru he was that. He was kind of like, but he he was a high ranking officer on a starship And he had to overcome that fear to carry out his duties and his tasks of the day and to be a leader with other crew members on the ship. So, u I could relate to that and I could I found I found him very quickly now The writers gave me a little through a curve in season two of Star Trek Discovery There was an episode where I had these things that popped out of my neck called threat ganglia. So they would go when there was an unseen th that no one else could feel, but it's kind kind of like a dog being like, you know, getting us sixth cense. Fighter cents. Right. Well, this would happen when there was a threat somehow And in season two, then my threat genglue got inflamed and was and I was getting really sickly. and it's like, o, I know what this is. It's Vaharai. It's this thing that we Kelpians go through that it means we're going be die soon Turns out that's what the predator species taught us that we were going to die then so they did mercy killings What we didn't know is that that was actually our adolescence thoseose would fall out and be replaced with quills that we were we were badass mother uers, you know, that with the and that we could shoot poison quills into people and we were we were a predator species at some point And they just found a way to kind of like gaslight us into thinking that, we're just. And u So now that episode meant a turning point where I lived through Vahari. I was the first Kelpian to be away from the home planet and out from under the bad guys rule So I was like able to go through Vahari the natural way and then come out of it with no fear whatsoever and being being equipped for fighting. they called me action Saru after that. So I was like,, wow, you know that's a part I'm like, I don't know how to play him now. All of a sudden I didn't know how to play him. Yeah. So I had to find u an inner strength of some sort. and what what I what I learned was it was a good life lesson for me to learn personally by playing him Saruz surroundings haven't changed. The daily threats, the daily challenges hadn't changed at all. They're still coming at them His reaction to them is what changed. C we all learn something from thatonight? So instead of being like, oh, there's something in the mail that I don't know what to do with. we're all gonna die. I'm gonna to go broke. Instead of that like, no, we're going to get through this. let's open the envelope and see what we have to do. You know? Big difference. It was like when you got the letter from the IRS. I was like, is this an audit? No This terrifying. immediately N got it. N got it. So since this was a new species, we were involved with the development of the lore behind that kind of race Not the lore. That was all the writers. They did a brilliant job of giving me layers and layers to play with.. But his physicality certainly was part of me. And the makeup design for Saru It changed. The first design they gave to me was completely different than It was a winged head with two wings two like cresents that came up this way and had ten eyeballs in the face I it was a Jesus completely different to what you saw. and finger extensions that came out to here. So I did a makeup test in that look and and I thought, oh my gosh, five seasons of this is going to be hell Yeah, because the in order to keep that in place, they had to have a helmet underneath the latex skin that was really tight on my head. And even if I even even as tight as it was when I leaned forward, it kind of pushed down pushed the skin down that made my mouth. It's like, can't do this for five years So u I got a call from the creature shop after they did a makeup test, video footage, pictures, all that. How do you think it went today, Doug? said Neville Page, the designer, and I said Honestly, Yes, please be honest. M, well I think Beautiful character you've created and I think if it was a one episode character that had some stuff to do great, but as an ongoing character with feeling and relationships to have How are other characters going to connect with ten eyeballs? and I'm not sure that I and I'll be It's going to be a huge challenge for me to get through He said, I'm glad you said that because I want to see more of view through this character and I want to redesign this with more Doug Jones showing. It was very sweet of him And in the other note CBS told him If you want that character on film more than two seconds per episode, you're going to have to change those eyeballs because they had to animate all ten of them. Oh yeah. You know what I mean? And that would have cost fver, you know, to do so. So financial and comfort one in the end. and so we got a more affordable and much more muchuch more connectable emotional looking character. So when I saw the design for that seru, it was like, oh, that's the one, that's him. Yeah ye yeah. So he sent me the artwork first and said, does this this What do you think of this, Doug And I was like, oh that, that's him. That is so him. And the finger extensions were out to here too. And I said, if you can shorten those because if I have to use Five seasons on a TV show, a science fiction show with props, weapons keyboards pads, whatever I have to touch a lot of stuff. So can we shorten the fingers? And so they did. So I don't often voice up too much when it comes to design because the best artists in the world have worked on me. and I don't want to muck up their process with my opinions. But when it comes to performance and and u and my actor sch actor stuff, that's when I'll that's when I might have a A note. Do you ever see like the in pre production, the full sculptured or drawn design of like what it's going to be for a character and you're like Crap are we going to pull this softwer? This is going to be difficult. Yes. Yes When I saw the Pan's Labyrinth sculpture the Maquette, I saw the legs going. And I was like, am I going have to hold my leg in that position with some kind of prosthetic down to the How's that worked Well what I didn't know is that I could do a straight leg How are we showing? we showing up there? Certainly with with that proust my my The fawn leg was around It was the suit leg was around my leg. then a prosthetic went back this way and then down that way. and connected under my foot. This whole part was covered in green screen material and wiped away in post production. So it's like the zig zag was me with a straight leg actually. So it's like, o, well now I can live through the day without If my legs were bent back, I thought I don'll never get to there. No one has thighs, good enough for that one. The other one was the time machine. The time machine the remake of the nineteen sixty one, and I played this was. Guy Pierce, it came out in two thousand. I'm going to say. Tish Yeah. and Stan Winston Studios created The Morlocks. and I was the lead spy Morlock of that movie alongside a lot of stunt people, by the way and the sculpture, the maquette that I saw for that. was both legs were up here like this, in a very squatty position And very skinny legs. That was the artist design And so of course, that's why I got the call. They' like, do we know anyone shaped like that that can sit like that? And sure enough was me. But so But when I saw that I can sit like that, but moving like that, lunging out of that position, you know, squatty, squatty walk walk walk was going to be like, oh, that's going to be That's where athleticism had to come into play again Um so I I've looked at sculptures a couple times and going A, really What about the Paleman? Be the pleman's legs are so slender. Oh, right. It was the same kind of thing in green screen pants? Yes, it was. There was a full prosthetic makeup around my entire torso, then connected to legs that were attached to the front of me. So these tiny little bony legs with skinny saggy skin on them went down the front of me, connected to my knees, my ankles, and my whole foot was made up So so I manipulated those legs.erest. And the rest of my leg was in a green screen leeotard. Yeah. That's clever. Vy clever. Yeah Yeah. It's just seamless and it lookserrific. Is there a character you've played that genuinely creeps you out? Yes, two of them One we just mentioned, the pale manan from Pan's Labyrinth. Yes him U When I was playing it, it was just like, o God, this is hard. And but when I saw the movie it was like, o. reallyally, really disturbing you know that his appetite is for children. That's no one should do don't eat children. So I saw And on the set to looking around the the oval ceiling in my lair was just this mural of paintings of over the over the centuries of the pale man eating children with knives and blood splattering on these beautiful paintings very, very disturbing. and that whole wake up scene when Ophelia eats a grape and that's she was told not to eat anything off my table because M Pe Grosso, very dangerous. So that woke me up. And now there I am putting my eyeballs back in my hands off these dishes. You know, just how could that not be disturbing? Oh, I ate fairies. That's right. The fairies were flying around. A I living in thata Yeah. grab grab the h around. Yeah. And you know how we did that Uh, I had condoms full of fake blood So the CGR just had something like to go off of. so I could buite it Yank it out until its burst So they had all that information to use to CG the fairies in that were getting stretched out and exploding. That's clever. That was cle Not tasty, but clever. Yeah. Were they lubricated or not? Well, they had a flavor. Okay. I don't want to a la la Moving on Let me cleanse the palllette. I think it's interesting you played both characters was that always the plan of playing Pan and When Geream offered me the fawn, he he said, look look at the Pale man too And I thought, Ohh, you cheap ass, you want two characters for the price of one partartly true. but the other part was that that he wanted the same actor to play both because Paleman was a creation of the fwns and it was part of the tasks that he was setting up for Aphilia to pass through and to to move along her destiny. Did it make you play the frog and the toad? No no No It was a local Spanish actor, thank Heaven. The other one that creeped me out though was the leader of the Gentleman in the Hush episode of Buffy The Vampire S. Oh yeah. the silver teeth. Yeah, creepy. You know againg, when you're playing it on camera, you just you're in the zone, you're doing your thing, but then watching it on TV that first airing was like, o my God, is she so creepy. How are you guys gliding in? wereere you just on like a platform with wheels or something? because you weren't walking or? Well, Right. When we floated about six inches above the ground everywhere we went in that episode So if you saw us full body, we were hanging from hip harnesses under our clothes, wires up to a.ness. And we were sliding along tracks, yeah in like thisD. And so we had stunt riggers that were going you'm pulling us along Uh, and If you saw what if you didn't see our feet and we just had to float into a seam We were on platforms with wheels and some poor fella on the ground going pushing and pulling. And that was a balancing act, you know, because when you start and stop on a platform with wheels If it comes to an abrupt stop, you're like Floading intooy. Sure Are there any movies or roles that wish lived on longer like had more space in the culture in the zeitges compared to like P' Labyrth. Silver Sf for someone that character you wish had more recognition that lasted longer. Yeah. Well yeah, I did a French movie and because it was a French movie, a lot of American audience didn't see it called Gainsborg a heroic life And it was a bio pic on the life of singer songwriter Serge Gainsburg, huge icon in France He's kind of like their Fank Sinata, their' Dean Martin. And he was a cultural icon well as well. He was very naughty boy. Every interview he did on TV was booze and cigarette. He never he was never seen without both, you know Chain smoker and cuss and didn't did not care The French people loved him because he bucked the system. on a TV interview once he actually rolled up Uh they were still using francs at the time as their currency. He rolled up a like, you know, a hundred franc note and lit it on fire and smoked it. So it's like, you know, he was just like so disrespectful Um So when I was offered that I was I played his alter ego So a French actor who looked exactly like Search Gainsburg was the lead of that movie and I was a cartoony enhanced version of him. That big nose, right? Huge nose, big ears, right and big wide set eyes And u So I would appear to him and kind of lure him into his illbehaved ways. And I also made some good business decisions for us. But mostly yeah, but I was good and evil for him U D didid you do the fire burns? I was on yeah. Uh Now I have a stunt Bubble who was actually set on fire from head to toe Bless him But yeah, but then they did CG fire around me for my close ups in that. yeah. Gotcha Yeah Yeah, I that was a lovely, lovely by as biography movies go It was different. It was very musical too because he was a musician. So they had a lot of his music played throughout the movie and a lot of musical numbers. I got to dance, I got to got to sing along a couple times and you know, it was just lovely. But I had to learn the French language for that one. An like mind bender Yeah, so, um good good yeah. I put my heart and soul into that one and it played quite well in France. It did play here in the States, but an artouse theaters to a much smaller audience. I'd love for it's a It's not a biography movie that leaves you with, o, interesting. It leaves you with like such color and such Yeah I mean, a lot of French films like that and I love Amel. whichich I'm sure I't know if you've seen it. Not recently. Yeah I mean that's like, I mean, it's like a rom com musical kind of feel like fairy tale. It's like a more positive penn's labyrinth in a lot of ways. We got lots of shape of water connection to Amily. People made that comparison a lot. Yeah Yeah. Shape of water, how it feel be the lead of a best picture winner. that romantically rantic. Thank you. Thank you Well, you know, I mentioned Creature from the Black Lagoon earlier when as one of the monsters I saw when I as a kid going, Ah, you know and The shape of Aar was Gerold L Toro's way to make that story right for him because he kid he was watching creature from a Black lagoon on TV in Mexico as a child And when he first saw the monster swimming under underneath Julie Adams, he thought, Oh, I hope they get together because he's not well in the head, right? And the rest of us were terrified for for her And he's like, wow, how beautiful, how romantic. And then the whole movie turned into what he calls a home invasion story. You know, these people coming down the Amazon area and like, Yeahah, you monster ra. It's like he was just living this happy life. He didn't All right So Gamel created the shape of water as sort of an homage to that movie bet to give it an ending where the monster gets to keep the girl and they live happily ever after, you know. that was Lovely for me to play. U I And again, the ride that we went on When Nuermo told me the entire story He hadn't had a script written yet. It was two years before we ever filmed And he talked me through the bullet points if this the plot how it was going to go. And I was like I said to him, this is going to be your next trip to the Oscars. Now, thirteen nominations later, I guess I called it, okay.. And you know it won four of them. B director for him as well and best picture. So actors too are supporting actress? Supporting actress and actress nominations. Nominations.. I think we also won for I'm going to say I have production design And it might have been Musical score. Yeah. I love that the film. I love Michael Sannon, especially I think he's a talented underrated actor. And Bright he's so good. and he boy, I had aen I had scenes with him Um when he was, you know, jiting me with a cattle prog Um He's intense And I kind of told Michael where Okay, here's the parts of the suit that are thick enough to give me a good poke. Here's where you shouldn't And that's right where he went. But he was in the zone and like and he was not maliciously, of course. So I didn't correct.'t I didn't want to betweenetween takes, I let him do his thing. I thought, this is too beautiful. I don't wantan to ruin this. He's such a delicious bad guy that we love to hate. Yeah.. I always placeays complex characters. I remember the first time I saw takeake shhelter that just blew my hair back don't you ever seen my film? Is that the one with the tornado coming? Yeah storm. the storm. That was so good. It So biblical as well. but My favorite part of the film, but just like this get to so many religious texts of this storm coming and you can kind have a prophet character. It iss interesting. Right, right, yeah. you know he channels something above and beyond human. He's terrific. Yeah. We're almost done But really, that's so sad. I mean, we don't have to be. you still have time? Yeah, sure You still have them Bckucket list directors that you want to work with? Oh, sure I well I had worked with Tim Burton before but in a smaller role. I'd love to go back to Tim Burton in a bigger role, you know, to really work hand in hand with him on something. Yeah, you fit so well in this world. Yeah, than. I would like to think so. Also then on a lighter note, once I saw Spllash in the theater back in nineteen eighty five Ron Howard directs. This is my opi from the Mayberry showh and Rich Richie Cunningham Cunam from Happy Days. and he's directing now And I love Slash. It was like, you know, also fantastical and romantic. and by me I thought, okay, I want him to direct me in something too this day hasn't. So terrific. I would love to work with Ron Howard. He's made so many great.. Can we talk about actors I want to work with them? Absolutely Okay Um A little known fact that I had I was Gary Oldman's Photo double spepecifically for a reason, but in in Hannibal. Okay. Oh wow. Did you put on everything? I put on everything. you know, the one eye that was all you know, no eyelid and all that U Gary Oldman, consume actor that he is, didn't want me doubling him for anything And so I had a three week vacation in in North Carolina. they built more estate O day they had sent Gary home early or they had rarapped him for the day couldn't like because of contractual reasons couldn't bring him back in to do that one more thing they had to get of him So that's when they're like Dug' on. so had to get into makeup fast and U I had to lie in Mason Vir Mason Virger was was who Gary Oldman played. He was like a living pannibals And so There It was intense ye. It was very intense. So I had to be in his bedroom in his bed with like two layers of mosquito netting all around the bed so they could barely see me. But it was Julianne Moore's entrance when she pulls up and meets him for the first time. comes and is ushered into his bedroom And we had two lines of dialogue back and forth. It was just a big wide shot to establish that And they forgot they sent Gary home too early. So there I stepped in for that. That's the one day that I was on set working in three weeks on that job. But met Anthony Hopkins briefly and was like If I could be anything on camera with that man, I could I would love to be his weird son. I'd love to be his I'd be his barista. don't I don't care. He won for the father, I thought was so deserving, even though he's won before but Oh My father was Right? No film. Everything he does. He just he channels something that is just so So believable, so right. So he lives and breathes a role. He doesn't act it. You know what I mean? Ridley made it Hanibible, right It really Scott Yeah. Yeah. again I wasn't used much, so it was brief. and he was nice. I much more to say Yeah U what role are you most proud of Well, again, I mentioned the fawn and Pan's labyrinth and because of just the Gainsborg, Lagule was my name in Sge Gaininsburg's story because of the language barrier and having to get through that much dialogue while wearing a five hour makeup application and and the challenges that come with that Um I guess. But also I think, gosh, the shape of water I was very proud standing on the stage at the Oscars after Best Picture had been announced and we all gather up on the stage to accept the award together and And I'm sitting there thinking, looking out over this sea of famous faces from around the world, going, my gosh, where am I? This is something you dream of as a kid. and I'm standing here now and A movie I'm in just one Best Picture and it has a monster on the cover and I'm playing that monster. Things that just don't happen in the accademy. You know? Does it feel like a blur when you're in that moment, but then it all goes back to It does, but I made a mental note like I'm going to take a snapshot in my heart of this moment right now and never forget it. Yeah. So that was a very proud moment at all that kind of is a pinnacle. Do you get to take any of your props home from movies or have you taken any? I have. Yeah Here here and there, I don't have a whole lot of props or I have some makeup pieces that were taken off me and I'm like, I'm gonna keep that in bag. It's practically you. have any of your like cows or your head? Some Yeah. From like the TV show I did Falling Skies and got I've got a Saru head from Star Trek Discovery, All screen worn, you know, too I have a silver sururfer face, I have anabbe sapien face, I have ome a sapiing glove hands. ever pop them on just for fun. Well, sure. Just like the vegetables. I'm gonna have some cereal yeah, yeah, yeah. Were you grateful to revisit that character because obviously the first version's dubbed over, but now you get to use your voice for the season. In Hellboy two, Yeah, yeah, that really was. that was nice to go and rectify that Yeah, even though I love David Hyd Pearserson I thought he did a great job with the voice. It was really, very nice to just be respected as an actor from head to toe and with voice and all. He didn't take a credit in the first one. He didn't. Yeah. Yeah he on his own volition, he decided to requested that his name be taken out out of the credits. He's on I AMDB, but if you watch the movie, he does not show in the main titles, he doesn't show up in the rolling credits Is that kind of the same thing as pans where there's going off what you captured on set basically in there dubb perfectly over. you have to dub afterwards. Right. Like so I do deliver all the dialogue in a situation like that. And it's only happened a this only happened twice in English So my contracts now protect me from being dubbed over again. Yeah. Silvver Surfer was kind of silly because I mean It's again character. Again, yeah. and that was more of a surprise. I didn't I didn't see that one coming so much When I've been again, love Lawce Fishburn. I met him. I've met him since then. he's a delightful man and such a great actor But again, no actor wants to see part of their performance replaced. and including me. So yeah. so with the surfer, I gave him a low superhero voice down here. Oh, I like that. Thank you. And you know, who else liked that voice was Chris Evans? He's like, dude, you sound like a radio DJ. Yeah And he's like, who And in post production, I actually was the first one to brought in to clean up my dialogue as the surfer and I did a whole pass of my dialog down here with this voice. and then went over it a second time but ran together the whisper and the low voice made this ethereal. I wish you could have heard it But but then two two days, two days after that ADR voice session Hollywood R reporter puts an article out that Lawce Fishburn is voicing the silverver. Is that how you found out? To Yes, that's how I found out. That was unfortunate at the time but everyone everyone apologized. J. because you know, it's one of the situations where so and so thought so and so told me. Yeah, you know, or gave me no one gave me the heads up and they all thought that someone had. You know, I'm not going to blame anybody. Has there ever been a situation of that, I don't know if you're talking to the sound guys of spring and normals That idea was the sound engineer's idea that was sitting at the panel board of my ADR session Yeah, he, um In fact, I just saw him recently at What was the award show Oh no, the Cinema Audio Society Awards. I was a presenter this year at did you know they had an audio society? I didn't know They do. That's FYC I went to that one night. Okay ye. Yeah, okay.'s it's an audio union. Uh, the ha uh hand fellow that was that ran my ADR session twenty years ago me and said, Doug Dg you might not remember me. I'm so did I'm like, do I remember you? Because he did two things. He complimented me profusely that day saying goosh, this sounds so like the surfer. Thank you. I love it. I love what you're doing. And I said, I remember it was your idea to go back over to the dialogue with a whisper And I said, and that was probably the most beautiful thing I've ever heard And he goes, ye, I know.. And he's like, I wish we could have kept that ' it was so good. I wonder if there's a file of that s. Id love you. I'm sure there's a contract out there that says they can never show that. or you can never hear someone's got it on CD somewhere. Somewhere. I don't know. I don't know. It's all good. That's interesting, man. I would love to have hear then. I wonder if there's a version of you as Abe in the first Hellboy film out Again, I good luck finding it. I haven't All right, well, Doug Thanks so much for joining show. This is an absolute treat. No, the treat's been all mine. Thank you for's been a pleasure. Thank you for taking three hours to set this up behind me here. My team loved us for this, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure my Angel of Death character from Ellboy two, and even the Be by man Critics really, really lo that one. I'm being sarcastic. It didn't have that great of a receptionfortunately. No, it had a great opening weekend.. It did well at the box office, but then, oh my gosh Did the critics pan us? Don't say it, don't think it. And they were said, Don't say it, don't think it don't watch it.. Isn't that terrible? Yeah. know, but I played the Bible. I was the title character in that one. He. Yeah. What a career. So many memories, so many talas classics. Thanks so much again for everything you've done for movies. Thank you for forward. Thank you for watching anything I've done over the years. I'm deserving. Get Doug Jones coming out. Get me Doug Jones. Get me Dou Jones. Act, as we sit here today, there's about two weeks left on a kickstarter campaign for finishing funds So if you go to Kickstarter and search Get me Doug Jones, you'll see all the perks, which I have donated to heavily Lots of one offs someome prosthetic pieces are in there from Star Trek. Yeah Y. and sign scripts