Etiquette as a Social Lubricant

Can we open with a quick ruling? show. Several episodes go On more than one occasion probably I've told you a story about how When I set timer on my Google homeome U And I, you know, I like to name my timers because I'm not a monster. And so I'll name it, whatever I'm doing. I'll say set up You know, forty minute rice timer you know, or set a seven minute cookie timer or whatever. And I had told you that when I say, set a nine minute pasta timer. When the timer goes off It plays a little tune. And do I remember correctly, you had not heard that tune before? At the time you told me this, no, I had never heard it, but since then I've tried it several times. And I think I reported back that I tried it and it didn' didn't do anything. But since then I have tried it multiple more times and eventually I did get it to do. Okay. So just first, just for our listeners, let me ask Jim to please drop in the audio off loveve theme from Nine Minute Pasta Your pasta timer is up. Okay Tell me your thoughts I got thoughts, but I want to know your thoughts. Yeah I don't have a thing with the screen. I just have like the cylinder with no screen. I still play the song I saw that mind begins with with a visual explosion of different kinds of pasta. Yeah, that I think is even more interesting than a little song. So I got to play the little song. I don't know why I didn't play the little song all the other time. Every time I'd called it, you know, set of pasta timer. so I'm saying the same thing every time and it would say, okay, eight minute pasta timer and But then it just wouldn't play anything But eventually it did do it once I'm like, okay, I've heard it. Um, in your thing, you've got a thing with the screen And when the timer goes off, it plays a little song that you just heard but it also animates a bunch of like Illustration style single pieces of pasta of various shapes. raveling some at the bottom of the screen, some of these might be your pasta Yeah, but they're why are they going upwards like as if gravity has been reversed and they're falling into the sky. We've got some And there's already a nice bowl of spaghette just sitting there Yeah, we got some elbows, some few sillies, some rotlles, some spaghettis riatoni, all just far foale all going out vertically. I don't under o Okay So and what I'd said to you was I haven't tested the rice one and sent it to you, but the rice one is just the tiniest, littlest tinyest bit ping pong But I feel like the Italian one is full on ping pong because I'm not a musician But I'm pretty sure it's playing a famous recognizable version of a tarantella that people associate with Italian Stereotypes. Yeah, and I look at the Wikipedia page and they say it's a group of various Southern Italian folk dances. Apparently there is a rhythm that is common to them, but there is not just one song but yes. If you've heard this, it's here's the thing with these timers They're picking out what they believe to be the ethnicity of the word that you name the timer. and then they're what they're saying is like, If you're an American, I suppose. What is the most stereotypical musical cue that will remind you of this ethnicity We're going as best we can, pound for pound, we're going to guessess what is the little tune that would most cue people to what they named it Right. And like I feel like instead that maybe if they want to, if they really, really feel like they want to guess your food ethnicity and then assign music to that ethnicity, they should do something that peopleople with that ethnicity would feel proud of. So I don't know. what are Italian Americans are proud of or sol meo? Yeah like maybe maybe is it opera Itally? I don't know. I know the plo Mo always it into u It's now or never by Elvis Presley the same tune. I did not know that. It's now or never But there's a famous one and somebody linked to the Louis Prima version. And so in the Godfather I. I believe it's at Michael's the party for Michael's confirmation What is it he has Not Michael, but you know a little kid It's the one at Lake Tahoe and Franky Five Angels is there So what happens when you leave the East cooast Did't mama sing that Louis Prima' song in the Godfather Part onene wedding Yeah, I think she was on stage. Rember everybody comes up and says the old man comes up, does the little part I just wanted your ruling on whether you think is Ping pong is somebody who's admittedly ye, it's very sensive.'re very sensitive about this kind of Italian racism. If I was the product managment, I would say, how about we just don't try to guess the ethnicity of a food word and then find a thing that we think will cue people to be reminded of that ethnicity because Basically, the most successful you can be at reminding people of that ethnicity is to be racist because that's the country we live in and that's what we've got to go. And you know, it's a form of cultural toures. Yeah. that shouldn't that shouldn't be your success criteria shouldn't be o, I know what you're thinking of there because it's easy to do that with racism And that's not successful I would say don't do that. just He says, you, Frank says he says out of thirty musicians so I can't believe there's not one Italian in M. And then so then the funny part is they they st d d d dun d like trying to get Tarnt tell, I think is the beat like the d it's a certain kind of dance and Frankie starts trying to d d that' trying to again. And then the clarinet guy starts playing u irst playing pop goes the weasel, which I guess turns out to be a tarantella And Frank five Angels does not like. D it did it Yeah, they're not not in New York anymore. I think it's a sign of how everything'sanging, John Yeah Egg nandles and catchu They got him waiting in the lobb Hey everybody, Wlcome back It's recconcilable differences. And and as always, we open up with a copyated feure Johns hererc' a call follow up Now last episode, I spent a while Well, we talked about my marathon video. I spent a while talking about where I was with the game emotionally speaking And some of the honestly, you're frank about some of the injustices And when last wee left, I said I had become acclimated to the environment of the game, but I was also in the midst of trying to do a particularly difficult task in the game and I'd been trying for a week on and off and I was sometimes discouraged and about to give up and then I would try again and it was just not going well for me and I had just not done it. Shortly after recording, maybe because of recording because it always helps talk about things. did succeed and I completed the trruth sllash lies Step six of six contract. In Marathon, I did it myself. I went in, I did my usual thing, which is going with a free loadout a bunch of times until I build up enough to have a good loadout. and then I augmented that good loadout with a bunch of stuff that I bought and I went in with it fully expecting the same thing that happ happens every time. I'm going to die, I'm going to lose all my stuff But it didn't. And the strategy adjustment I made which I made several attempts with this new strategy, but I believe this was pivotal was Well first of all, I mean, this sounds easy, but Make sure you get to the final part that I was having difficulty with with as much time as possible to spare because obviously if you're rushed and there's not a lot of time left, it makes everything harder. there were lots of time to spare, which Some of that is luck, someome of that is skill, but you know, do you find two green key cards real fast? can you get in quickly? Do you find the conveyance request? like it anyway Get in fast. Get, you know, get to the final part that you're having difficult with lotoss of time to spare and then use that time clear that wing out of all the bad robots before you turn on the like the three minute message thing becausecause once you turn on the three minute message it's like it's like when you read the part that says your time starts now. You want to get as much done as you can before the timer goes on. Right because they're going there's going they're going to send a bunch of robots as soon as you turn on the thing Yeah. You can around. you got to get rid past the other. You gott to clean to have a clean slate to say just kill and it takes a long time to kill everything in there and it wastes ammo. right? It wastte time, It wastte ammo makes noise. So there's lots of downsides to doing it, but That I believe was the difference in making me successful. I get. I had a really good run, got there real fast And I said, I'm going to keep doing this strategy of cleaning this place out. I cleaned everything out. Nobbody heard it. no one came to kill me I cleaned it out, turned on the message, fought them off for three minutes, I did a really good job fighting them off And as soon as I had killed all of them and the three minute timer had gone up and it said mission of success, another player came in because they heard the commotion and they chased me down and killed me. But it didn't matter because you didn't need to fill for this mission So does that count as like a save Like you're No, it's like, sub missions you need to complete the some contracts to complete the contract you need to exl successfully and other contracts Is that considered a side quest, John It's not a side quest. It's a quest quest It's the main that before I apologize. Yeah. Anyway. so yeah, I didn't have to exo for this one. someomeone came in and found me, they chased me down I You know, at that point because I had completed the quest. I didn't actually care whether I died or not. I was just so happy that I had done it I probably could have I should have thrown a grenade into the vent that he was coming out of. actuallyually I didn't have any grenades left. I was really spent at that point And so he killed me and took whatever stuff I had, but I didn't care because I did it So success. persersistence pays off, I completed that quest, I'm very happy about it Um, Once you've done that, Gosh, I have so many questions. Like I wonder if you get to know people in the game and look out for people who are badass, but like I guess the bigger question for our listeners is Did your success? eventually in that mission, change your impression. of how well the game is constructed in level No, that mission is still not appropriately scaled for where it is in the progression. It' It's like giving you homeork for things you haven't taught Yeah, it's just it's you want a smooth progression. L like I said last show, you want it to be, you don't want there to be these big lumps and difficulty along the way. And it was such a relief to have that done because First of all, it's not like hanging over my head. Like even before I was like, can go I can do other contracts. I don't have to keep doing that one. It's true. You can go do other contracts and leave that one alone, but it's always just there, just like you're thinking about it. It's like that one the one, you know, am I going to return to that? But now that it's gone, then I can just ch leisurely choose from the field of other contracts that are available to me, picking ones that I think won't be too hard. I'm all out of priority contracts. I don't think I have Any new priority contracts and I think the resets's coming soon so I probably won't try to get anym And so in the wake of having done that and celebrating your success, you this news end to your approach is like to the extent possible don't harm others No, Well say I went into the game with less with l of all sorry I was I'm sorry we're doing a podcast. I was trying to set you up Yeah, it wasess of less of a dark cloud hanging over my head. I feel like. Anyway, in the next part, when you said this online, I really felt for you And I could really feel the pain about what you'd causeed. Would you please tell our listeners what you did? Yeah, so I'm playing the game carefree, you know, doing fun things, trying new stuff, trying out some different gear, trying some different contracts, running around, you know, just just having a good time. No black cloud hanging over my head. I found myself on that same map And I was running around doing things and I noticed some proximity chat of two other players. I was playing solo. so it's two other solo players talking to each other. and I could hear them because proximity chat just goes out into the air and anybody can hear it who's nearby. Is it a different level, depending how far away they are that's a really cool feature And and I heard them talking. they don't do they don't make it directional because it would be too easy to find where the person is. so it's more it's more like a's that's fair. And it's also it's probably kind of echoy like in some of those areas. Yeah. It's like in return of the Jeti when Lu's hiding under the stairs and he says I will not fight you. It sounds like it's coming from everywhere. so Dothh Vader can't immediate loate That was fine. anyway I have been talking And and I go over to them and I say, Hey what are you guys doing blah, blah blah? Do you need a red key? 'cause I had a red key? They're like, Ohh, we don't need one, but you want to come with us and do our thing? Yeah, we can do our thing. And they said, this guy's doing this mission. And I'm like, oh, I've done that one before. It's like, it was the mission before, the one I was describing. It's similar. You got to do mostly the same stuff, but when you get to the final room, all you got to do is kill a big robot and take this thing and then run away, You don't have to like wait for a message to play for three minutes, you don't have to fight off robots and keep them from turning it off. So it's a little bit easier It's one I had done Many moons ago, and I had a much easier time with it but I'm like, I'll help this person do it. because I know it is kind of annoying And so it's three of us, three solo players. We don't know each other. As far as the game is concerned, we are opponents, but we are working together and talking to each other. And of course, that's risky too, because as we talk to each other, Everybody can hear us. It's like, it's out loud. there's anybody around that heard Exactly. and they might not be as friendly, but you know, we're going we're going to do our thing. The other tricky bit is When you're playing solo Y bullets, if you accidentally shoot another player, it hurts them and kills them because as you would imagine. But if you go in with a team like a group of three, if you shoot your other teammates, I believe it doesn't hurt them. I haven't done enough team play to know this, but anyway, they usually disable friendly fire. So you can't accidentally kill people in your own team. And this becomes a factor because When solos are playing together, fragging Right? Yeah. when solos are playing together, there's always in the back of your mind in a game like this Am I gonna to be betrayed here? Is this person be like, Oh yeah, sure, we'll work together until we find all the good stuff and then they kill me, you know? Seems like a really good strategy. so so you're wondering about that. And so when you're fighting robots together and it's chaotic and there's three of you and the robots are coming from all directions and you're trying to shoot them It's common to accidentally let a bullet or two go into like the back of the head or shoulder of one of your people you're playing with and you don't want to think like, No, I'm not betray you. I just accidentally shot into your shoulder because you walked in front of you know what I mean?ight Like There's a lot of that going on So anyway, all three of us went in. it wasn't Joe Pesh is shooting sppider Be actually's got a lot of balls So we went into the thing and we ran down the various wings and pressed all the buttons and looted things I was there with the free looadout, which means that I had like the wooden shield and the crappy stuff or whatever. And so we're going to go find good stuff. But one thing that I really needed to find if we're going like into this big area where you can find lots of good stuff is a backpack because can't I cant hold it, I get like five slots to put stuff in So I have no backpack. I can hold nothing. So'm going I'm just like, oh, I'll just help you guys out. I didn't have a lot of shields. I didn't have a lot of ammo. I'd eventually had. Yout have backpacks Yeah, a couple they have good equipment, but I'm like I'll help. I just have a free loadout, but I'm not much help I could be, but I'll help as I can. So I'm going through running around them doing the stuff and they're like, oh do you want this? Do you want that? I'm like I can't I can't hold it. can't don't have any room Thank you, but I can't take your fancy item. So anyway, we looted all the things. Then we went into the final room thing and the big robots are there and we're fighting and'm I'm helping as much as I can. I spend most of my time hiding because I I have no health and I'm running out of ammo and Anyway eventually do succeed. there was the person who had the mission and then there was another person who was really good at the game. likeike really good. He memorize where everything is. He was really good He had really good weapons He was running around and Jumping on the ceiling and knifing turrets out of the ceiling Like it was nothingace So anyway, sounds like a mon Yeah, he was really good U And so he's he's doing most of the heavy lifting. He's carrying us as they would say. I'm just there trying to help out and this is a person with the mission So we kill the big guy, the big guy drops the thing The guy grabs a thing, but this contract you do have to exfill for. You can't just kill the guy grab the thing. It's not over yet. the ship and get out. until until you get out of there So we're like, okay,'re running out of time. let's go find an fill point. decide to go to a locked Xfill because we have plenty of red keys left to did we did the red key room, by the way, too. We had so many red keys that we did the red key room which has tons of good loot that I couldn't take And we found red keys in the body of some robots. Anyway, we go out to the lockedXville we we fight our way out of there. The lockedXville has a bunch of scary robots around it, We're fighting the robots around the Xville. T timee is running out. There's like a minute left We're fighting the robots to get to the Xville. And the guy who has the contract goes down. He gets shot. he's not dead dead, but he's on the ground crawling in the downed state And when you are Uh, you know, we're playing solos now. When someone is down and you're playing as a solo, U You can revive them if you have a thing called a Mercy kit, which is like, hey, take you can revive someone who's not on your team. And of course when you're sol, you don't have a team. like have a little cleric box It's a special item in the game. It's a special valuable item. You can't just do it normally. You have to have this item And I said, oh no, do you have I don't have a mercy kit? Do you have a mercy kit? And he was already down, but he had placed a mercy kit on the ground near him before he had started fighting. So I'm like o Oh, my God, you put aercy kit on the ground. So I picked up the mercy kit and I went over to him to revive him But unfortunately My muscle memory is such that whenever I go over to someone who is downed in marathon, I just immediately hit square. No. because that's the button to finish the player by stabbing them with a knife What I wanted to Look what they've done to you. What I wanted to hit was triangle Yeah. J just the button you press to revive someone with the mercy kit. So I walked over to him them and I said like, Hey, I got theercy kit here. I'm going gonna revive you and stab The worst part is to revive with To revive with the Mercy Kit, I believe you have to hold down triangle for a while. but to kill with the square button. just a momentary time. There's no there's no like you see the animation playing out. I'm like, oh no, there's no back seies. You can't stop like the animation is playing. You're like, no. And I said I a monster, Joh. I didn't I didn't mean that, no, but that's why I feel for you because I know it's no fun to feel like a monster. hereere's the other thing. m pretty sure I haven't experienced this exactly I haven't experiment enough, but I'm pretty sure that Either immediately when you're down or immediately when you are stabbed You can no longer hear proximity chck So as I'm saying, oh, no, I didn't mean to blah,ah blah. I'm not sure I't even hear apologize. He can' He can't speak back to me. I'm pretty sure once you're down, you can't speak back to other people with proximity chat likeike not within your own team. Like again, we're solos here. When you're in your own team, you can hear each other the whole time. But when your solos I believe your communication is cut off between you if one of you is downed and certainly when one of you is killed, communication is cut off. So I don't know if he even heard me apologizing. I can imagine from worst case scenarios from his perspective We did this whole mission together for twenty minutes helping each other out didn't I didn't take any stuff. I waited until we got to the exfil and then when he went down, I stabbed him and killed him And then then the other guy, the third guy comes back and I'm He can still hear me. I'm like, I pressed the wrong button. I swear I just did like and the other guy goes the other guy goes like this. he goes Well This his bag is here now. You could take his stuff if you want And I said, I can't hold any of his stuff. I don't him I don't want his st. I mean, sorry to see him simple. Can't you take off his backpack and throw out his stuff and put your stuff in it? Yeah, I could have taken his backpack or just take stuff the most precious stuff. I't I didn't do it. I didn't take a single because he felt bad John? Yes, I felt terrible because he just like I know how hard that like you know, it's not as hard as the one I was doing, but it's hard. It's a hard mission. and he obviously needed help doing it. and he had enlisted the help of two friendly solos, me who I'm barely helping, and this other guy who was really good. and he'd had this great success and we were all doing it together and all we got down to the last minute, but then I was going to revive him and then accidentally killed him and I felt terrible And did you get any consolation from the guy who was good No, the guy who was good was like, you might as well just loot it. I'm like It's a shame. I understand. I've done that before. I feel bad about it. Yeah he said that a little bit but he's like, oh, that's a bummer. But then immediately switch to the mercenary and he's like, well, you might as well take his stuff now. I'm like, I'm not taking stuff. I No, it's like the walking deead. I mean there's no Yeah, you going to go to away. Nick learns in the first season that there's a lot of What inventions he's gonna have to leave behind to keep his family alive? Yeah. Well, I'm still in the first season. I didn't take the stuff and I was like, I felt so bad. And was exilled So yeah, and the worst thing is I didn't note this person's like username or handle. I didn't know if there was a way to say like people you had passedate. I would have like sent him a message. You almost need like a craigsist like a misconnections or something. Yeah, I would have sent him like a message in the game if I had but I can I couldn't figure out how to find out like people you've played with recently or whatever. I don't even know if that's available on in the. do you think you might see him again No, he doesn't not the chance of him listening to my podcast or following my on No, no,'s that's a different B boil the ocean approach that I I don't even know what his userame was.uril the ocean approach aggressively. Yeah I. I didn't know note anybody'ser The problem the userames, I'm not sure if you're aware of this. I think've mentioned it before. but like, you know, when you and I come from the days where You would try to get the username on a service and if it was taken, you'd have to pick a different one. Remember those days? Yes That's just so you know that's how hot dogs ladies have Yeah That's not the way games do things anymore You know what they do now? which is so dumb and I hate it They let you pick basically any username you want Does doesn't matter if there's a thousand people who have picked the same username They said you could just be Lur. You want to be Doug? Laur. O okay, you could just be I see. you could just you could just say you're John You could be neo. you could be any you could be anything you want, right? Okay It will let you pick it. And then whatever name you pick They stick on the end of it a hash mark and then a four or five digit number you don't get toick whichich is ultimately the part that makes it identifiable later Yeah, because the combination of the two is your Is it clipped off or ellipsis or something? What No's just, it's part of the name. Whats What's the lim? Whats the limit? They show it all together. I don't know what I think the limit is like maybe it's like twenty or thirty characters, but then always displays the full name even with all the. And it's not sequential. It's not like you get NOo one, Neo two No, it's not blogger. If you're the first person to pick Neo as your username, you're gonna to be Neo hasashmark seven thousand eight four sixty three It's just a random number Thatn't that a godamn shame. These kids today they don't even care. Yeah, they don't like it takes all value from being the person who gets a name and you can never have a clean name. E even if you pick a unique one that no one has picked, you're still going to have the stupid numbers in the end. So all that is to say when I see usernames fly by in the UI, which is rarely, but if I do look at them, They bounce off my brain immediately. I don't remember them. And even though I did, Ohh, that was like, you know, cool guy. Okay, was it cool guy four, seven eight three cool guy seven, eight seven six, you know, like I don't unless you know the full name, right? So Right. All this is like I had no way to communicate with this person and. try to convince them that I didn't do this on purpose. So I felt terrible I'm out I'm going to try to like, you know, becausesarmel one way this is different from what we do to soldiers in war is that now this fell is he's back And now he's going to have a little bit of attitude because you totally hit him with the square. Well, yeah, he's if he feels betrayed. even he tr He may trust people less. Yeah, evenven if he doesn't feel betrayed, even if he heard me apologize and totally believes me He's going to be like, I'm never I cannot believe I played with this terrible player who hit the wrong key and killed me at the last minute because it's terrible. happened to him was terri I feel bad. So I'm out there and the problem is I'm out there trying to be nice and help people. like if they're running by and like, I'm on a mion, don't shoot me I'll let them go by, right? But Sometimes I'm on a mission too, and sometimes my mission is to kill other players. Like that's literally my contract. What's happening on Survivor right now Like you always gets point where there are people who like for no, just the thing where people like forget that point of survivor is There's two things you need to know about sururvivor. One, it is a game. Don't get me started on what's happening with you Yeah we'll get when I finished fifty, we'll talk about.re you arere you up to the merge yet?'m not I am just past the merge. I saw you complaining about it, but I'm not I'm so feeling at all that Yes, I do. I've already I made the same complaint when we were watching them. The point of the merge is fromom now on prettyrety much The point of the merge is there's now few enough people that we don't have separate tribes putut more saliently, we no longer have group tasks that have an important impact on tribal council It's one M we like one of those but not like repeatedly. But you can have you can have stuff like, well, just for the sake of this challenge, we have to break you into groups of three. That's fine. You can work all that out. But like the stuff where anyways Um I'm sorry you have to live with that. You should I mean, I don't, you should get some kind of counseling I'm trying to balance the scales, but like I said, do the part I do enjoy is hunting down players and killing them, so there's going to be some of that going on. It was a game. It's a game John I was hiding on a roof and there was a guy who was in the building below me. And he started proximity chatting and saying I know you're up there Why don't we just go out and work together to which I said nothing 'cause I was planning on killing him. And then he said, you were probably muted if I know you. No yeah, I was muted. I was just like I was like, M make your move, dude. Like, you know, I'm even snicker Yeah, was like as they say, and you return N' movie. I have the high ground. Make your move Oh, is that on the volcano planet? Yeah, yeah. And he's like, I remember that remember and every time we watched that, my kid would say, manan, Anakin is having a bad day. Yeah And he's like, we could work together, comeome out and do this. Oh he said, Ohh, maybe you don't have a mic. if you're willing to work with me. He basically like if I if I wake up from my nap and this is's on the table, he did that to me in the game. sureure. right? He said u come If you agree, come downstairs and and take this item that I put out by the door and I'm like You you think I bornesterday? I'm like. That's not your first day. That really does feel a little bit like a trip. Yeah. And he might have been honest, but I'm like, I've been playing. This s looks like you're aaccoon and he's trying to get into an enclosure. Yeah. So I just didn't say anything, but he ended up going on and on and on about like, oh, we can do this blah, blah. I don't want anything bl, blah. And he's like, All right, well, I guess you don't want to talk to me. I'm gonna go over there and go to that film. You know what I let him go to the X let him go. I That's the kind of complex story you don't get in movies anymore That that's a that's a really that's a good complex story where you need context for why it's a story I let him go and then later, I walk to another part of the map and hid behind rock and shot somebody from a buouff. Is there a very last question. So you've described the thing where the point of this game is it's an extraction shooter and you have to exfiltrate from the place. And to do that, you've got to get into what sounds like an open area or I guess there's some kind of starship that takes you away or a heliiaopter. What is the name? for is there a Is there a name for people who hang out and wait for people to Xvil? They're camping the Xvill. is what you would say. Camping the Xfille. And so they get a good they try to get the high. I'll camp in Xvil. Oh, yeah. S sometimes, I'm so I'm playing sol What is makes you want to do such a depraved thing? Sometimes I'm playing solo and I have a contract to kill other players and I can't find any other players. I can't like the map is too big, there's too few people people specific player No I just could take down some bodies Right. Yeahah. and I This game is ruthless, John. The map is so big and maybe like they're like beginner a bunch of beginner players died of robots immediately so I'm never going to find them because they're already dead. And I just They died of robots. Yeah. And you know where you can find somebody though?X the XvL site. So we anybody al you hide behind a boulder, what do you do? Yeah, if anybody's still alive, they're going to have to go to one of the Xville sites so I'll camp an Xville Not above camping and XL I think you did the right thing We have something here that's been sent to us from a listener. Dum Do we agree that this is somewhat adjacent to the secret weird things people do topic? Self proclaimed by this listener who who This one is news to me. and this is up there in terms of the like, I can't believe I've never given this that much much any really too much thought. Well, you're not alone in that. Yeah. This person hashtagged it with SWT PD, which is not an abbreviation whatever Chris Gardner writes My wife is adamant that any food that comes in contact with tin foil must not be touching the shiny side shhiny side out as she has just informed me. This goes for leftover sandwiches in the car or covering an open container Nine years we've beenarried since the first time it's come up I can't say I've ever actively considered this. This also assumes that tinfool around the world has a shiny side It does in the UK and France where I now live. Is that weird And I asked What's the underlying theory at play? Like why? Wh Like now that you know, you can interrogate your wife about what you should do differently Yeah,, but why? is is Wh sh Yeah. And Chris says, no underlying theory whatsoever as far as I can see Unless Shinyide out is a theory, who can say And then you replied in the same threat For no particular reason, I've always assumed the shiny part goes on the outside and the dull side touches the food I've never really thought about this until now. And just real quick in passing. just because people are going to say something We say tin foil, but I think we're talking about aluma Yes, It's not made of tenin, it's made of alumin anymore Um So here's here's the thing about this I am very aware that aluminum foil has a shiny side and a slightly less shiny side I wouldn't say it's dullult but it'sess shiny. It's pretty easy to tell. It I don't know if it's all aluminum foil, but all the alumin foil I've touched in life, which granted it's probably all been Reynolds wrap because we don't we have a very dominant brand in the U.S for for sure for sure. Yeah, Which by the way, I still do cold tin fooil and sodas because my parents I do too. I'm just, you know, there's you your monkeys are pats Yeah, All right. U So but like the, you know, the shiny Side O. and she says Shiny Side O is in, you know, leftover sandwiches. and she says even covering an open container, in which case, it's not touching any food because an open container presumably has air and you're covering the top of it. That's an important clue Yeah. So then is the reason I asked I'm like, okay, this is a thing you do whatever I was waiting for now tell me why. tellell me what the wackad do reason is that this and and the answer that came back was just bottled my mind It was like, No theory There's no reason to behind. You think that's really truly mind bogging Yeah You can't see a reason why somebody would pick one way to. We talked about this with like the part of the brain that comes up with reasons for stuff that don't have reasons. Oh, for sure, for sure. Why is that part of the brain not kicking in here and say I mean, my solution to this were my reckonons on this is unbelievably simple and straightforward which is like you got to pick away. So like for example, in the document, I mentioned this idea that I think is pretty novel which is anytim that you have to carry two identical things. Two glasses of water two toothbrushes or two, you know, anal probes or whatever Always hold yours in your right hand And then wordlessly say in your brain, I'm always right The reason I say that That has helped me a lot and I've gotten less fewer anal probes mixed up with other people's drinks because I always say I'm always right. Now that's not accurate that I'm always right, but it's something my brain knows. It's like when people put up their fingers and I'm doing the thing where you make an L with your left hand. because there are people who still have to do that and that's fine What I'm saying is I'm we need to adjudicate the shiny versus dull for sure. But I don't find it mind boggling because I believe heavily in pick a way to do it Even for instant even more especially for insignificant things. I think it's useful to pick a you said earlier, well that you have to pick away Why do you have to pick away? the drink thing you have to pick away because you want to keep track of your own Be it's a good that's a good habit to amplif Um, Well, there's an example of the toothbrushes in the glasses. But that example does not apply to this at all becausecause that's an example where you care about which drink is going the machine. I'm not talking about And I did look it up. I'm not going to tell you, but I know the truth about this. I learned the truth about this and I've been advised to let you talk about the real reason for shiny and dull and what it means I'm talking about a slightly different related and parallel issue is if you're the sort of person who thinks things should always default to a certain way Let's say, for example Doors should be closed be locked A D you hold your toothbr in your right hand? If you're sorting pills, always do them in this order. L whatever it is. I just feel like because of my troubled brain, perhaps and my emotional dys reggulation do understand somebody saying whether or not Even if it's not the right thing to do You just always be consistent about it. And that's why I say like doors remain closed. So if the door is open And Well you got to open your doors to use them You use the doorway is what it's called But like I think having a shared default state for a thing is not weird This is a weird one because it doesn't seem to be for a reason But it's not inexplicable to me that someone would have an extreme preference. It's not just that it doesn't have a reason. in all the examples you gave. You hate a rationality. It bugs. No, in all the examples you gave, there is a benefit to doing it consistently that you can explain pattern of always choosing to be consistent. Yeah, but there' things like things like doors The open or closedness of them has a real impact on your life in terms of youational. You don't understand people. But the thing about the shiny side and the slightly less shiny side is I'm looking for If I do this consistently benefit do I get? or not just consistently in particular like shhinyide O or whichever direction, like it this irrationality? Yes Well, what I would have liked to seen is something that to the effect of like keeps heat in, keeps heat out. I have exactly one thing to say about this and it's based on absolutely nothing. which is when it comes to things like You know a good use of rentalals rightp? Because my wife makes me, I'm not allowed to just cook in a pan like a person and I have to use Reonaldsrap. And you put it down, you put down the alumin, and you're going to roast your delicious Brussels sprouts. Make cleanup easier Sure, and clean as you go is my philosophy But you know, like the lady says in Ratui, you know, gotta keep your gotta work clean. I just want to stipulate for absolutely no reason. I've always assumed that the shiny su I've always assumed that the shiny side goes where you want the heat two. brown some Like I don't know why. You to make the shiny side face the food? Yes. because it seems when you're cooking, it seems more like a mirror that you need, right? And when you're putting it away For absolutely no reason. I always do the shiny side out I've never seen anybody in my house ever put anything in Reynolds wrap with the dullide out So these are all examples of reasoning side is the top is part of what I'm stipulating. For example, I'll give you another one that I can come up with even though I don't know if this is true at all. If you're putting like you're lining a sheet tray with a tin foil You put the shiny side facing up because the shiny side is well the food will stick less easily to the shiny side than the dull side because the shiny side is smoother And that's why when you line a sheet tray with it, you put the shiny side on it because it makes it her even easier c. Oh, is this a fact No, I'm just coming up, I'm it's Is part of my brain that can come up with a reason for like but like but to have to come back and say now there's no reason. I don't think it's because of heat bouncing. I don't think it's because of easier cleanup. I don't think it's because of sticking. I don't think it's because of anything like that Okay. no reason like what about what about like and I don't want to do a bit here. What about the toilet paper And like I have really good friends, mostly from Canada. who think that the flap of the toilet paper goes over the back and comes down underneath And I'm from America, I'm from Ohio. And in my world for absolutely no reason The only way to do toilet paper is with the flap coming over the top towards So like that's I don't you say you have no reason for that, but you can come up with one pretty. It's consistency. I shouldn't haves consistency to p. I'll give you the reason I do it. the way you describeed which way you overver the top, like you said. H you' America? Because under the bottom binds more easily in my particular toilet penscer. makes a paper dispensers tear. It binds up. It doesn't come out as smoothly. It's a concrete reason. whyy would it's not just arational, very rational re. If I had a toilet paper dispenser that bound up when it was coming over the top, I'd do it the bottom because no one wants to pull that toilet paper and have it like get stuck and tear before none of these things that you do just because you like it that way Well, I mean, that's why I was like, I'm not, here's I can tell you what I'd do with T infoil Pay no attention to which side is the shiny side of the dull side. And that's why I was asking, like, maybe I'm missing out on something. Maybe it would be easier to clean J to scrape like the cauliflower off the aluminum flile if I made sure to put it shiny side up on the sheet tray. So I was waiting for him to say, because food releas is easier. I do it because it reflects heat and it browns better or something, but nothing Yeah. I get nothing. See, now that really sticks in your cw, don't it Yeah, especially when someone is so consistent about it and doesn't have an underlying I would like them to have an underlying theory that I think is dumb versus just saying, nope, no theory So I'm guess you did the research, right No, I didn't do any research on it. Like why there's a shiny adult side. I assume has to do with how it's m. I've got eight pages on it. But let me tell No no, I don't want to talk about it. I don't talk about. Tell me why it has a shiny side and dull side. D don't make pull up the document Sean. I thought you were gonna do this. Aren't you one of those people that likes to Google stuff? Executive summary Okay, stand by Is it because of God They told them they don't make Sundays. Kind of. it's because of Jesus. Uh let's see. Oh no, here's all my homework triangulation. Let's see if I got my aluminum foil stuff. Okay, here we go. Well, one of the things is in the document in the notes from Marlin that are prepared for me, it said the foil topic has a real factual answer Don't deny John the satisfaction of an underlying theory. There is one Lead the conversation toward no theory, but here's why people think there is Do you want to look it up on your own? D you just tell me? Kara, did you actually look this up or did you just ask a chatpot U What it says, it's got notes here on why this is probably good for us. where it is the chatpot The actual answer so the bit can rest on something true. To sides. according to my schcholarship I'm just telling the source I got to look at myself. This is about aluminum foil. It says the two sides are an artifact of manufacturing not design. Aluminum foil is rolled to its final thinness in pairs. twow sheets pressed together. through the last passath. The sides facing each other come out dull contact sides facing the rollers come out shiny, polished. And they're functionally identical of cour, they say here the real exception, which is stupid, but if you're using non stick, well, let's not what we're talking about Also, there is a note that it says foil and what you call the equals with the slash? Do not equal? Tin fooil does not equally equal aluminum foil So it's just because of how it's made I'm not saying that people don't find a reason generate a reason why it is and how you should use it. But according to my scholarship that I did on the internet last night It says that it's just because of how it's made and it has nothing to do with its functionality. Yeah, so that think this may be one for doror Dawn There iss an America's test kitchen page about this, but it is not loading. There is a random Reddit post from a random Reddit comment or You should have done your scholarship last Wh says something similar to what your pages on. Chat bot just said Um But yeah, America Testkitching just does a pretty good job of looking into these. I do wish their page would load, but oh well U All recipes got a thing on it. Yeah. You would imagine the Reynolds Reynolds Rrap website would have something on this as well. Right, exactly. When you think about stuff like not but seriously, I'm being serious. Like I mentioned that wonderful Harold Harold McGe book last week about on food and cooking. I mean, that's the kind of thing that you would expect to come up in a Fun to read turns out list about why it's this way and why you should use it this way. canan I give you one? Ill bet you already do this. Do you know the trick with with let's let's let's say, u Reyolds aluminum foil Do you know the trick with the dispenser There's a trick with a dispenser.' a tr'. to tell me how to use the dispenser. don't There's a trick. There's a trick that I only learned a few years ago And it still dogs me, not like killing somebody in a game But they'll live again Yeah, that's what they said about Jesus The u Es you might notice at the ends of the box that your aluminum foil comes in You'll see like a weird little like scd Yes, I'm very, very aware of this. Do knowot ites for Punch those suckers in with your finger, it'll go into the tube and make it so when you pull it the tube doesn't come flying out. It doesn't come flying out. when did you learn? Uh in childhood But here's the thing about that. You are really fun to record with hereere's the thing about those little you've always known everything, ha you? They're on clling like San raap too as well It's a rand wrap. a proprietary eponym from the U.S. So what do they call it plastic wrap, cling wrap? on the other side of the pond. They call it they call it not sell it. They call it cling film Oh, you know that from your game shows. Yeah. because one time Mike Mosniak had to wrap his legs and cling film. Yeah. So here's the thing about those little thingsies, you know what I don't use them I know they're there. I know what theyfore. I find the experience better without you. You're operating on a whole other level I don't I find the anw How know have you have the knowledge that so few have or so few will admit You have the knowledge, but no, you're doing another thing You want to be able to I've tried it and I find it not as satisfactory as not It's kind of like we're kind back to the toilet back to the toilet paper. with the binding. It binds. Yes, it binds. Yes Yeah, right. And like the technique without it without it binding is like if you do find the roll flying out of the thing, you just close a lid a little bit. And the tear off thing is on the lid lid edge anyway or like near the lid ge so you're going gonna have to have a lid down anyay. I don't use them. I don't poke them in. Maybe when it gets down to the end of the thing sometimes I'll poke it in just because it feels like now it's a little bit too free wheeling in there, but in general, I don't I my thing is I exercise you know where' like, once it's down to the nub As with toilet paper, people read the document J's change it before it's empty. is my feeling on those things? Like you know, leave it how you'd want to find it next time you might actually get mad at yourself that you didn't replace it earlier ' here's the thing And this is where we get a little bit Merlin Man You got you a of Reyalolds wrap aluminum il on a roll. however you decide to do the scores, just know about the scores The pointint is you've been using and enjoying your foil And you get to the end and there's still like let's say you still got two full wraps on it. and you're like, That's cool I'll just leave it here What are the chances don't have if we can just remember three is two, two is one and one is none. If you Is there a chance that you do not have a replacement for that at hand becausecause the moment when you're out of it is a good chance to not be a goddamn dingling. and realize you need to order a new one before you're actually happ D you take my point on this Yeah, although because I'm charge of this, John. If there's as you would imagine in our house running out of any of those things is pretty rare Have a whole dossier on your wife and milk D I share that with you Yes Um Thank you so much to our listeners. And if you have any more of these John's like I say this, but I will. I love John. M. U Hey everybody. if you have more of these things, I love hearing them And I love hearing them and I sympathize because I think there is a way to do things, even if it's not If you don't have rationality. I think everyone should should engage that part of their brain that makes up reason for things they have no reason for. justust so I can hear the made upp reasason. What makes you say that That's funy because' they made up reasons. I find a read's dig page. What made you say that? How do you know? Yeah. Have you run a mechanical hook on yourself How do you know you know you know I'm annoyed that the Americ' Testission page won't load but the read's digest page. like I wonder if this is a real' readers digest it's R d. coms got a good domain. That's a. I do wonder if this is a real reader's Digest page or if their entire site is just like, you know, I bet they did one of those things that everybodyI generated slop at this point. Well okay. all right But you know, just just it just a junk you know, link farm we used to call it Yeah, they cite the USDA on this reader's Diggest page. like they say the U.S. tr there' that there's no cooking difference to it. They don't make any claims about stickiness either, but Keep sending them in. Thanks everybody Ooh, apparently they make non stick foil. I've never used. Yeah, they do. I've used it. I've used it. I've used it for bakey stuff. And they say in that case, there is a difference between the two sides since the non stick coating I don do that. The non stick coating is only applied to the dull side. I've never used non stick cos. Oh, I spent the tokens, I guess I might as well open up and read it to you. No, I think that's enough see me like Chucky cheese? A leastason needs braces Did you get the, um Did you get the nachos Bleander styles I did. I saw the image. Oh I was so annoyed at Friniak. I went to Frreniniak to try't a lot of people't like the new design. I'm not I heard people complain with the new design, but I don't remember the old design so I don't know if this is a complaint but I lot had a lot of little gubbin I tried to make a pon farar mating, you know, blah, blah blah thing from last episode with the comomic Book G guy So I found the episode in the scene I went to it, I saw the lines of text. it was like You know, it says Bah, blah blah, pan far, some of us would be much more m than others, you know I see it's like three lines of text. I'm like, great, makeake me a giff of that And I say to make it and I'm dragging the little ends to say it should start here in this line and it should end here in this line It plays the gif and it shows the little subtitle in the Simpsons font iss like we're going stu pun far for some of us will be much less mating for others be much much more. Oh no and it just the one thing for the whole But it does yeah, it doesn't change ch. No I feel you. I feel you. Yes,es. you gott to do all the lines and when youosted you posted that image of it, which I loved and laughed at as with all of your Simpsons references, but it was a lot of text. even just for one image I would break that in normally with the way I do screenshots, I would have done that is because like Almost always needs two And if you're going to do two, you might as well do four And so you can provide context in like blank frames that make it funnier. Yeah, this one needed multiple lines. And the thing is it played it play it showed one line and then that lineappeared and then showed the second line then that line disappeared and it didn't show. I m. I made the jiff of whereere's my burrito? Ow. Remember, where's my burrito? What I hear every time someone chants and Homer hits it, But it's not funny for the Ow Beyond the line right under whereere's my burrita Exactly. Yes So anyway, I didn't at that point, I'm like, I should just go get that episode back myself That's what I do That's what I do. screen recorded and but offered to give money to that guy. I kind reached out to that guy to tell him how much Frank Yak meant to me And it was a nice conversation. I was just like, I really appreciate that you've done this. It it really is wonderful. Could I give you some money Yeah, giveive him some money so we can put in timestamps. No he was really nice about it. He's like, no, I just appreciate you using it. Like it's not a big resource drain, like blah, blah. Just enjoy it which I thought was a It was a nice exchange Um But speaking of ander sty You made me laugh again. I made a comment on this in the document and then you removed it I made a comment on resolved it. this resolvable thing. I highlighted what you said and I had a comment that said, I think it said John Kama. This is really funny, period Right, and then I resolved it. That is the most honorable thing you can do to a comment is resolve it s horable thing you do a The most honorable thing you can do to it's the highest You sound a little bit like cooach right now Hest hon our comment. No. I sound like cooach for Fridayight lights. Oh, I see. Car eyes comments. Load in, load in, kill dude Um Shelly, Do do have time Uh, I mean, you got a little time. Can you can you fit it in? for. Yeah, probably Last week in the afterfter showhow. Oh, by the way, you can support the program and hear things like our member episodes. by going to relate. Fm. slash or D slash join and we appreciate your support. But we talked about homework last week and we had a very spirited One of our rare Like you won't agree with this and that's fine, but we were really on the same page about a lot of stuff about K to twelve homework and what it represents And I had said to you at the top of that, well, oh, I was wondering if we're going to talk about my version of what I call has made famous in the phrase Please don't give me homewor And he said, maybe we'll talk about that another time. So I figu do you want to talk about a little bit now? Here we are, It's another time I can't even tell you how much preparation I have for this. Um I have I have a lot appropriate. I've written. This is something I've been meaning to write about. with my hands for a long time. and in prep for this, I did a full triangulation on every time I've talked about homework of all kinds and I'm going to throw it all away because I'm going to try and keep this really simple Mhm Do you appreciate that I spend all that time doing that scholarship I feel like scholarship has got some scarecrowes around it, but sure yeah All right, I can see where I found a triangulated every time I've mentioned homewor in anything I've done And then a lot of the initial uses of homework in my new U coinage of that is u A request for media advice, Ohh, yeah, this isn't a post I did. A request for media advice isn't an invitation to assign a semester long survey course. That's homework. not an opportunity to fall in love. U Oh yeah, here's one. I gave my insufferable friend John Syracuse to some homework And I'd be grateful if you join me in bugging him to actually do the homewk please and thank you Do you remember what homework that was about? I sure do You know what it is? No I don't. I gotta look at how many ses document. But it still is actually in there, let me see Well, no that was a post from the internet. I know, but Henry the F is in the homework section of the document. So have done the second thing. One time I said that yoga seems like stretching with homework I once described the harmony remote. But I learned about from Dan Moran. I once referred to that on episode two hundred and seventy two of this program as an unpleasant homework machine And then at some point Especially in the last couple of months, I've been just thinking a lot about what I mean by homework. And what I mean when I say, please don't give me homework And there's so many things I'm not going to get into right now that affect this, but I'm going to try and keep this simple One thing I've got to say as a footnote is that this has become huge when I use Claud where I have to just, I feel like I have to constantly keep telling it, don't give me homework And that's become a thing where like now it should know what that means, right? Which in the case of Claud is like, hey, if you know how to do this Do it for me Um which has led to me occasionally having some audits I've had to do to go in and say, remember, you work for me, I don't work for you. Now just I'm just putting that here because I've got that in mind that I need to guide this thing. to accomplish the stuff I want rather than give me walls of text about what it thinks it knows I want functional connections to be made. and I want you to, again, in big words sends title case, always do all the things Fish everything that you start I'm just putting that there because if you're a user of Cloud, you've probably had that experience of like, Why are you asking me to do stuff you already know That's one kind that's kind of homework that comes off. The kind of homework I'm really talking about good heart unintentional homework other people give to you. that. is usually an individual to an individual and that the person giving the homework does not understand to be homework. and in fact They think they may be doing something really nice or doing something It's just hyper communicative to keep in touch Just the same, I'd prefer you not give me homework kinds of homework again, we're not going to get into, but that's related. you know, a common kind of homework People who don't keep a calendar. People who don't schedule things I'm not just talking about podcasts, I'm talking about just in life You need to know who is going to pick up the kid at what time And in some relationships, not mine, I'm happy and proud to say, but in many relationships, it's just understood Who will take care of that thing? If it's not actively assigned and scheduled I think that that becomes a kind of homework. Eespecially if the people don't know about At the very least your interest in abilities, I guess that's maybe like a high bar, but especially in terms of like, hey, you don't really understand what you're asking for here Like when somebody just pings you at work and says, hey, can we do a quick check in I'm Janice And like now it's up to you to summarize everything that's happening with Janice and bring them up to speed. like and then to have to explain to them that actually we're at a really weird point in dealing with Janice. and it's not the time that I need anybody else to do anything or get any input Are you with me so far, the unintentional part usually Yeah,ough I have to say the definition of homework, your version is ever broadening as you speak more and more, as you've been pulling more examples. It's like pushing the edges of the envelope of homework's I'm talking about all this stuff I says it said I would. Yeah. well, but can you see how that like it makes the envelope quite large for that? Yeah, it does because I started to realize it Um Where's the other I think I had a pretty short one here C It's usually homework homework. you can put it in scare quotes if you want, but it's usually something unrequested I didn't ask for this implicit task that I'm supposed to get out of this J even just the emotional labor unrequested by the person who was going to do the homework. Like they didn't ask you to assign no, no, sorry. unrequested by the person who's getting the implicit home. It's usually more assertive from that person then I'd prefer It usually repres it often represents what I'm calling a one sided force multiple which is you're out there farming or Fming out what's the word I'm looking for? Like like assigning stuff that you can't be to think about for other people to take care of for you and then acting like that's just part of their role. But again, importantly, forth, it is offten, perhaps usually, Unintentional. There are examples of this that I've given you in the past that might give it more Oh. There's a thing I say in the document. Be careful about giving people gifts. gift that you give to anybody with any expectation on your part a burden And nobody likes being given a burden So like if you're the sort of person who gets all hinky, if you don't get a thank you fast enough, if you're the sort of person like, oh, you haven't worn that sweater I gave you, that's homework. Don't give people that kind of stuff. I've told you this story before, but I had a friend, pretty good pal in Tallahassee. I know I've told you this story And one he said, Oh Yeah, I want to drop something off your house. I've got something now I got something really special I want to give you And I don't know why. came to my house and gave me a tabletop radio from the fifties didn't work And he had this long story about how he used to listen to the radio with his father And it really meant a lot to him So He gave me a broken radio with a story And I consider that homework He didn't realize But like can I also just say I later found out from his fellow bandmates and other people, he does this to everybody It gives us broken to other people with a story I consider that homework He shouldn't start an eBay store. Well to quote to quote was it the great Dr. Jerm Seinfeld, whoever first said, it's like, you know, when people give you like literature on the street. You're like it's basically them saying here, throw this away for me. Anyways, that's that's enough to get started. I just and' not I don't mean to be quite so touchy about it. but it touches on a million things. My ongoing thing with dealing with doctors and all medical things There's always homework I've got to do in order to get them to fix a thing I need fixed in order to show them that like You know, that I'm complying with the homework plan similar to K to twelve students. I just I guess when I'm part of what a part of is I'm just bitching, okay But like part of it is I also I would just I would appreciate it if we all got better at thinking about the ways that we unintentionally put a load on other people. There are people out there. Deal with their anxiety by trying to make you anxious Maybe you've never met anybody. But I know people who are racked with anxiety. And the way that they deal with that, by passing it not trying to pass it on to you And then the homework is, I've got to like share your anxiety about that. I've got to assuage you about that. I've got to talk you off the ledge about that. And mean that's what friends do. But on the other hand, are you aware of how often you're giving people unintentional homework. because I think it's a bad l One of the examples you gave was like a workplace where your b boss said or whatever, we need to talk about Jan and all of a sudden you a bunch of homework because you got to geta to get all crap you know about Janis, to give them an update, even though there's nothing you think that needs to be done at this time And I hear that and I just think that sounds like having a job becausecause yeah, you're always Yeah but But this isn't there isn't there let's say it's not your bos. Let's say it's a coach But you know Yeah, but even my coworers. Yeah. There's always a bunch of. There's a big difference between where do we stand with that and how can I I know. Yeahah, it's like there's there's always going to be like, oh to do that. whether you realize it or not, I have to do X, y, and Z and that's a bunch of extra crap that I wasn't planning on doing. So thanks for that. But it's like Yeah, that's life in a jobpy job. not my d When my dad died, we were showered with all kinds of wonderful things from the people at our church. A lot of people didn't even know us One of the things was we got a bunch of beautiful floral, you know, gifts and beautiful sympathy cards. But one of the sweetest things was so many people would just come by and drop off food for us which I thought was the sweetest that all these strangers would go and make a casserole and bring it to us. So it's one less thing to worry about when you're dealing you know with a difficult time. And I'll always remember that. It's one of the reasons see also the recent D byy Friday U It's one of the reasons one of the things I miss about church was that community of like kind strangers helping each other without regard to how you feel about faith or religion the people were really, really amazing Now, on the other hand You ever go home or you go to you visit somebody and they're like, Ohh, I just made this pod And like they put it on one of their really nice dishes and give it to you and go like, o, you've got to take this home. Have my wonderful pie and tell me what you think So like now you got to eat pie, you got to act like it, you like it, and you got to figure out how to get them their dish back in a way that pleases them rewinding a bit for the people running in the dishes. That also becomes a burden when the seven hundredth person arrives at the dish because now you're like, where am I going to even store this? If don't if I throw it in the garbage because it's rotting because I really it really wasn't it really wasn't it wasn't like that. and that's why Right. But I'm saying if you keep scaling that up and you had ten times as much as that That becomes a burden as well. Yeah, no, you're absolutely right, but that this is what I'm trying to say as one of the big threads in the document put in notes is that Almost anybody who I'm writing this for, anybody who I'm sharing with this with, I begin with with a couple assumptions couple tenets. One is that every single thing in here is something that I had to learn usually the hard way The second thing that I choose to believe and that guides me in writing it the way that I do is that you're a curious person who would like to figure out how to be better in ways you didn't even know you could be better And I do that by encouraging people to look at pains they've had in the past and how they wish somebody they loved had done it differently That's all I'm saying. I'm not trying to like make everybody agree with me. What I'm trying to say is what you're saying here is like be aware And then like don't be the person, if you are the person who drops off lasagna, don't be the person who keeps bugging the widow about where the pan is . The taking t it to the extreme and is like, uh, you know, I mean, I'm sure some Mners book that I've never read says something to those effect, but I think you've repeated it, whatever. whatever little file card do you have on the Matternerers book of essentially doing things to put other people at ease. The point the point the word I from Emily Post or Amy Vander. the phrase I would use is that the reason that Decent kind people have etiquette is to put other people at ease So like, you remember that theme? I don't know if you've watched the Crown, likeike I've watched the crrown, but there's a running bit in the Crown and even in the Queen, the movie. where they're like, oh did notceive the protocol sheet? Make sure you give them the protocam sheet. And like you laugh about it because it is ridiculous how Margaret Thatcher and her husband are in different rooms and people want to unpack their suitcases and they dress wrong for the dinner party and because If you don't get the protocol sheet, you don't know. They're trying to tell you like here is your decoder ring for figuring out how to be person here and then also goes for stuff like schedules for like complicated weddings and stuff like that. Yes, I think I agree with the idea that E etiquet Did you ever watch them Our flag means death I think I'd watched a couple episodes. One of my absolute favorite episodes is where Rys Darby who's this very kind of say Captain pirate ship and Taika Watiti, who's blackbeard They go to a fancy dinner D you ever see that one And everybody makes T of what Ti feel bad, like JD Vance style. They make him feel really bad that he doesn't know anything about what fork to use, what spoon to use Etiquette is not a munition, it is a salve and a lubricant. Etiquette is the thing that helps us know how to be. If you know what? If I see S Zeand playing on the national anthem, I want you to take off your goddamn hat Put your hand on I do it And people just look at me like I'm a nut, but I think when you hear the national anthem, you stand up and you put your hand on your heart Like, if you disagree, that's okay. I think that's a form of etqute. Like think about oh, John, if you had to go back to church Would you be totally upate, up to date on how to greet people and when to sit and stand Don't you like to know the times you' supposed to? They did change They did change some of the. Lamalady has a great bit of. I still find it jarring, but I think you still sit and stand and kneel the same times. I used to say and also with you. Yeah Now they say something like up your spirit. Al also with your spirit or something like that. Yeah How do you feel about this? You seem resistant to being given home. I mean, so I think etiquette thing is interesting interesting angle on this because the the etiquette explanation I was getting at is similar to what you said, but it's kind of like L the ultimate U, you know, person who is the best at etiqute, I don't know what you would call it but like the person person who is know is the best at etiquette is like they would have a guest at their house And that guest would be Blackbeard, okay? Blackbeard doesn't know anything. Blackbeard doesn't know Where to put the drink on the doy doesn't doesn't know which towels knows or whichapes't know what a couch is. But think about the soaps. Nobody knows you're supposed to eat them. what are they If the person who is if Emily post herself, let's say, I don't have a name for a person who's really good dediet hadad Blackbeard over to her house Blackbeard would never feel embarrassed or confused or like he didn't know what to do That would be a demonstration of someone who is an etiquette expert And thing I said in the document is if you're having a party, there are going to be people who arrive at your party either before the announced time or before you're ready to have guests You must be gracious about this, but you should also give them a job People feel better when they've got a job if they're early. You could also have an award for whoever came first, peopleople like that But the whole point is to never make to never go like, oh Hi Um, Because that the point of the party is for you to be gracious like not to show off It'sraight like because you're like, what if this pirate comes into my house and they have no idea what they're doing and they have dirty shoes or whatever. How am I going make that person not ever feel uncomfortable? because I do want them to take off their dirty shoes. He used light little candles in his be. I wanted him to stop stabbing the arm of the couch with the fork How do how do I like And that is the expertise of etiquet. Now now I would say the example you gave of the protocol sheets for the world people That's an example of losing sight of what the point is because those protocol sheets are so complicated and everyone is so nervous about meeting the quQeen. They're peopleople who forget that. they're going to be like, okay, it's better than not having's kind of she's also kind of a dick about it. And every time it's better than not having the protocol sheet. But now talk about giving me homework. It's like hly c. It's a thousand things I have to memorize in the next hour. Okay, about how about a destination wedding? Yeah, I gotta make sure. What what do you call or what do you call the first My mom just got invited. My mom just got invited to a retirement party And I guess I can't really tell. I think it's escape room based before this retirement party, she can't room for All for eighty year olds. All she knows Oh Happy Mother's D. She All she knows is Aamam at the mortuary. If you don't make it out, that's it for you. Just putem on the coriander. You're already there.. Yeah. No, but it's a puzzle to solve to find out what the event is and And she's like, I really I'm gonna Is it like one of those dementia tests The president thinks man women. It's an escape room, sure really isn't everything an escape room when you're eighty