Scorched Earth and Game Resets

I have an update to my questionnaire Okay. And I think we might talk more about the Coldberar questionnaire, but I just want to I'm not trying to change I'm not changing my answer But because honestly, I think I did pretty well considering U I really dislike the smell of ammonia Hm I forgget what you actually said for them. did what was your actual answer? I mean, kind of, well, not really lavender. I think I said decaying bodies in a small space L country. If you had to pick decaying bodies versus ammonia, I think I'd go with ammonia. I would too I don't think I'mone use your answer though, It's not. It's just that I thought I smelled ammonia a little bit ago. it made me think of that. Here's the other thing about sensory things And I know this seems obvious, but I'm going to say it anyway Um I don't know if I said it exactly like this, but like have you ever ross I'm sorry. But have you ever gone into an area where you suspect that there might be a deceased animal and you've got to like hunt it down It could be a rat. It could be like, you know, in some cases, I guess a raccoon or whatever. but Mammals who die smell really bad I think that's part of the USP of the dying animal title But u I think the worst part is it feeling inescapable. And you know what I mean? And it's so interesting because for me, I, you know, I can handle almost anything as long as I know how long it's going to be and it's not too long like feeling stuck in an area with a bad smell, like, you know, like honestly, being stuck next to somebody with really bad BO like on a train or something. Um But you know, it's also true for sound I've always said that farts and poems, the similarity with farts and poems is everybody likes their own more than others And I think that's true. If you were locked in a room with poems, I mean, you wouldn't even know how to begin. All that that looks very overwhelming for you. But you what I mean? the bad BO versus the well, I guess I guess this is probably true of really bad as it smells too, but like I know there's a there's some kind of physiological thing where U And when you're smelling something for a long period of time, it smells more intense in the beginning and then you kind of quote unquote get used to it a little bit, right? I would just say anecdotally, I have years of proof that that is true Right The thing about BO, specifically is if you're seated next to someone who has really bad body odor, you think, well, it's bad, but I'll probably get used to it over the course of this two hour bus ride. But in my experience, BO always comes in waves and so you never get used to it. And it comes against all odds, it actually seems that the only word, I don't know, sometimes with senses is, I'm not synesthetic but I do like It bes it to me as what I would call say a sharp smell And I think it get it can get a little sharper as you spend time with it and you think it's gone for a second and then it comes back sharper. Yeah. And I think it literally is because like, you know, the person shifts their body, they move around.', you know, like that, I think it literally is coming in waves. And so you don't get a chance like unlike, you know, if you're stuck in a room with pneonia I mean, I guess you'd probably die eventually, but get used the smell anyway. That smells. And the other one with but the sound one is the other one I' mean to sound glid, but like, you know, even your favorite song in the world is going to be annoying to you if it's being played at a time when you don't want it being played very loud. And it's to me that's so much of this stuff. againain, it seems subtle or unnecessary to say, but I think For sensory things, it's the inescapability you know, or that feeling I don't know I mean I'm putting I' making it sound like it's this grave human problem. but do you know what I'm talking about? It's like you can handle walking by. I would imagine I don't know at what point in natural selection, this comes along, but Ill bet part of that process over time is that we do develop One of the reasons we developed a sense of smell that we have is to, you know put us off of stuff that might be bad for us or to know that these bright colors on plants and animals can mean danger without even being told You know what I mean? So When it gets pointoy, there's just something about a decaying animal That's very traumatic to me Hey everybody, welcome back. It's Reconcilable D differeerences. and it's one of my favorite things. This is episode two hundred eight of John's Reconcilable Differences Show And we wanted to let you know that this is one of those very special weeks where we will have some bonus stuff where we are going to talk about There's a regular episode that comes out at the website and then if you choose to support our program You also get some some bonus stuff and I'm pretty pumped for this one. John, what's our topic this week? Yeah, I did my homework and caught up on the current season of Survivor, fffectionately known as Survivor fififty because it is indeed the fifteth season. They do two seasons a year is. So it's like twenty five years of sururvivor. is a new It is really is a new This is a big fiftieth anniversary season and we're going I have completed watching it. I'm assuming Marland has two. We're going to talk about that in the members Only After show. Yep, That's it. if you want to help support the program, that'd be swell You go to relay d. Fm slash R d slash join and for a very modest amount of money. I mean, the primary thing you get is You add free episodes, but I think more saliently, once a month, you get an episode like this and I like our little bonus things. I don't even know what to call it. You told me not to call it a bon episode, right? Sorry. it's not a bonus episode. Its not a bonus. episode.' just I did that I even numbers are longer for members. For now sometometimes twice as long. I can't believe you make computer programs How would you say something like, how would you like, how would you ever use the idea of something being a u Oh my God a not a prime number, but a an even number You know what I kept thinking about was was primes U How would you ever say that something, if it's an even number means something? Do you feel like our system's informal enough? We're high enough away from the metal that that'll work Episode number mod two equals equals zero you equal squals zer Um We didn't talk about this in the before show I just I'm forgive my bringing this up. we're not going to talk about We don't have a plan to talk about don't blame the dog this week I just wanted to say Mm Thank you to everybody. Thank you, than you than, including, including our ad hoc board member, dor. Karen have sent not officially recognized by whom Pide peopleople who officially recognize. Do we represent do we represent a quorum? do you feel like? Yeah. well, all I can say is if we're going to have officially recognized board members, I would have to participate in that process and I have not named any officially recognized board. who do you think on the board use I'll probablybody right now Nobbody's on the board becausecause he didn't approve it. Well anyway, people know that John and I get pretty steamed when people blame a dog or other animal. But let's be honest, it' usually a dog. Pe blame a dog for setting their kitchen on fire blame a dog for like all kinds of stuff m So the two funny things. Number one, thank you to everybody who in rapid succession. I'm not I'm honestly not saying this. I'm saying this to say thank you and please keep doing it I love this stuff. I was sent several copies of an article Um about I'm not going to get into it, but it purports to be another blame the dog thing. And this time, as with the last one, unfortunately, it involves a firearm I wanted to say Oh and then also I just want to say before I had received any of those, John J see you now I'd mailed it to you You weren't the first. See, there's loaded gun. There's load of gun in the truck. I'm very, very aware. The loaded gun in the truck and the dog moved And then that was framed in the article as the dog having shot someone And there's just I enjoy speculative fiction as much as the next guy. But I gott to tell you, there's a lot of I would really want I would want a prosecutor to really go through that and talk about Woof so we're not going to talk about that, but I did want to say I sent it to John John is aware of it. So a or sorry, let me start again. Hey everybody. number number one, please don't blame on the dog T blame the dog if something happened and it's really the owner's fault in any wayay. The dog involves shooting And what was the other thing? and I really appreciate when you guys send this stuff in. I think it's a nice shared experience. So when people hear this in let me check what it's going be they hear this in August or whenever this comes out, they'll say, Hey, well why didn't they talk about my cool link I sent? I just want to say thank you, keep sendting them and My suggestion, John, I should say this for appreciation, but I think we should accumulate these When patterns develop or something new comes along, it feels to me like that's the time to revisit, Don't blame the dog. I'm always looking for the new angle. This one didn't seem like it had a new angle It was just yet another occurrence, but Right and did an equally poor job of framing it. Like again, John I went to public schools. I'm not super sharp. But like I just, I guess I just come from people that don't keep loaded shotguns in their car when they go to the store with a dog in it M always reminder youve read on writing, B Steven Ken I'm always I always go back to that Excuse me, that chapter he end up ended up having to add. Hey everybody, there's probably five books about writing that mean the world to me and all the rest of are garbage. Mly, Steing Kings's on Writing is not only a very good. The second half of the book is a very good book about writing, and the entire book is a great Steing King. That's my opinion I think it's wonderful. You don't have to want to be somebody who writes or to be let alone to be a writer. but if you even enjoy reading, God, it's so wonderful. It's kind of a memoir and definitely a writing book Long story short, he was taking a walk one day in Maine and he got hit by a van coming down the road And I don't know if y' all know the story, but he was in pretty bad shape Like he was real, real screwed up But as it turned out What had happened was Now now John, can I just say in this lesson lightight and time, There's a lot of people who would say probably that the dog caused this. wouldould you agree? Remember the story Do you understand my framing of this? Oh the dog, the dog is the one that made Stephen King have to get pins in his legs and then Tabby had to set up a typewriter under a staircase for him But here's what had happened was the guy said and I can't do Stephen King's accent If you do I suggest reading the book, but if you get the audiob book, find the audiob book that's narrated by him because it's wonderful You're hearing him read C Mike McCarthy out Loud as a gift Mm fellow driving in the white van, the cargo van, like an econom line type van He gotone into town to get him some of the m' bars If memory serves I don't know if that's what they sound like But what had happened was according to the fella who'd gone into town to get some Mars' barars. what he described as a cooler full of meat in his car in his van. And I guess it was kind of rocking around. And at one point the dog in the van figured out a way to get into the cooler and get out that meat Now is that a dog involved Uh, maiming I mean, you shouldn't have a dog loose in the car. You shouldn't have a meat loose in a cooler in the car with the dog This is a real this is a real folks this could be a don't don't keep a load of gun in the seat everything remember, this is in the back seat, I believe. Like it's not in the front seat with him. So no no. it's back in the car se Dg in the back, cooler in the trunk. likeike any other kind of more reasonable arrangement than driver in the front and dog plus meat cooler in back And please just get to know how dogs work, please. I mean, I'm not asking you to become an expert on dogs, but instead of trying to fight the way your dog is Either accommodate and adapt to that or maybe consider not getting a dog next time The dog did not shoot the person with the gun Can you imagine that it shot out a window and she got a pellet in her arm They blame the dog You you that dog will do hard time? I don't think so. Where was it wasas it in There was no jury in the world where would convict that dog? Hu. It was in Nebraska Right, mrter State Trooper? You looked at record, right the story the other four track one You don't care it's not your l theoo's not the spring. He recorded that on like a three hundred dollars four track in his house Not my spring se, not my monkeys.. We begin as usual with a follow up, John The only item we happen here is the Colbert questionnaire. quest to talk about all things Colbert because it's been a quest did I add Well okay sorry. Okay, sorry Let's do that again start again. I'm sorry. No, no, no second chances, baby. No second chances. three liive, two Um So what happened was last a little bit ago, two, three episodes ago, John sprun with Coldberar questuionnaire on, forgive me for repeating this if you know, but I think context is nice. Um sprung on me a concept I've never heard of, which is called the Colbert questuionnaire. I' have always enjoyed Stephen Colbert People who were sick of me and have muted me on Blue skky should know that I continue to post hilarious things of him on the Dana Carvey showhow. doing stuff in secondcond city and working with rings with cand, eter big fan, but I' never watched the show. You sprung this Colberar questionnaire on me. We did it. It was a lot of fun. You tricked me then I mean I'm not sure how it came up to you except it must have sort of like just come across your transome, I guess. but The reason I added it to the document was, hey Stephven Colbert just did final episod of his CBS show And as it happened, there was a bonus segment where he did something that according to what he says. He said something he did something that he always told people he would never do after the show was over And so he decided to break his rule a little bit and to let All la Letterman's top ten lists. like let celebrity friends basically, when you say people that he's given the quiz to in the past Billy I don't know if that's how he. I know some of them did. Well did you catch the cable acccess show? I saw some of it. Well, the Jeff Daniels part heavily implies that Jeff Daniels There's a sandwich involved It's sandwich involves shoot Um And they come out and ask some questions. and it's hosted aonderful guy named John Dickerson And u I'll get this out of the way because I've been saying too much about it, but you know, you gott to say stuff a lot because people don'tay attention anymore because they're always sad I would really recommend y'all check out. Three things, The final episode of Stephen Colbert S showow. It's very, very accomplished and very rewarding and it knows what it is. Number two, I would suggest you watch the hour long extended edition on YouTube. This well be in show notes, notes, notes Number two, watch the extended like fifty eight minute version of the Colberar questionnaire. And the real The real dessert, not for John maybe, but for a lot of people. The real dessert is him the day after his last show or at least in the canon of this the way this works. The day after his final show, that Thursday, that Friday, he went to Michigan and did a one hour long show on Michigan local cable acccess with Jack White as his musical guest or his musical director And the three of them together are wonderful. I put it in notes because you would asked me the Cldberar questionnaire. And with as you know, John, I don't know if you think I'm using it right. I always enjoy saying to you, I guess we finally got to the fireworks factory So it finally happened, he broke his own rule and like a couple days before or whatever in Canon, he did the Calberar questionnaire and I super enjoyed the way he answered it. I thought he really balanced the whole thing very well. you Yeah I meant to mention that when I gave it to you. I'm not sure if I did, but ye from very early on from him giving the questionnaire, the The people he was questioning would always turn it back on him. Well, what do you think? Isn' that what I did?'s what I not knowing anything. it's what I did. It's a natur thing to do. And of course, he would say that he's just asking the questions and eventually he would say, Look, if I ever ask answering these questions, it's because the show's gonna to be ending. ha ha. That was years and years ago, littleittle bit you know, you know The show would in fact end unceremoniously due to our stupid system of government Um Yeahes, it was kind of like people expected it at that point because he'd said it so many times of like, you know, I'm not going to answer this thing It wasn't any like ten minute segment. I mean, it was really it was a whole oion And sa I saw this twice. I saw it once in the context of like the Aired episode, which was heavily edited obviously for time so they could fit it in And then I saw the extended one And I have to say, U certainly on the edited one and maybe even on the extended one The choice to have an individual celebrity read each question really robs the thing of momentum because just when he's sort of getting going and building a rapport with one of the people, Dickerson introduces another person another. tell he was kind of I think I got the feeling that every one of those celebrities had been told Please don't linger. my guess would be, hey, please watch for Watch for cues that we need to move and move on because it was originally, as they say, in the full version, it was originally supposed to be a twenty minute segment, and then it ended up being an hour long Yeah, and they they edited to death in theedit. I don't know you've seen edit one, but people just basically get cut off ifice. But even in the even the extended one, like it's just I know he wanted like I seem like a lot of the people who he chose are people he's personally friends with who aren't don't they happen to be celebrities but also he's friends with them or has some kind of rapport with them you know it wasn Darris. They worked on Amy S Darris and him both worked on her wonderful show Strang. Right. They like Jeff Daniels, why would you think that but it's' clear they'res, You know what I mean? D you hear why The Jeff Daniels was their test guest their test guest No, I understand. you're right. Okay, cool. All right, that makes sense. It would be nice if it could unwind more. Yeah. and the other interesting thing about it was, well a couple interesting. I mentioned when I gave you the quiz that I haven't seen all of these. I just discovered that it existed like a month ago. So obviously I don't have that much background on. I watched a bunch of them but certainly not all of them. U But in the few that I saw, It kind of gives you enough information, you watch five of these, you basically have enough information to guess pretty accurately what Steven's answers are going to be and guess what? those were his answers Yeah And then the other thing is one of the questions is what number am I thinking of? and then the person says and all of the ones I have ever watched The celebrity has always said some number, and then Stehven sometimes he jokingly makes wants to always think always got they didn't? Sometimes he just says they didn't, but the point is no one ever guessed it. But't he doesn't always say three Yeah. Well, so here's the thing. He says in the extended one, first of all They turn the question around where the questionire, I forgget who it was, but the questionnaire asked Stehven, what number were you thinking of? I'm like, I'm sorry, that's not the questionnaire. The questionnaire is what number am I thinking of? The person who is giving the questionnaire has to think of a number and then ask, right? You love this role Yeah Well, this they just didn't do it right. If you just want to know what number was Stephven thinking of, I' like, okay, so fine, whatever. They turned it around. I think that was bad But then you know, they ask, Hey, what number were you think of? And apparently, Stephven says that two guests have gotten it right. He said it was like Meryl Streep and somebody else had gotten it right. I hadn't seen those interviews, so I didn't know that they had gotten it right And he mentions that the number he was thinking, was three. I'm like, well, wait a second Are you telling me every single time you're always thinking of the same number? And if so, once the second person guessed three and got it right, wouldn't everyone have caught on? So I don't know what's going on I mean I always guess, like most Americans, I always guess thirty seven unless I'm the second person to guess of several, in which case I can do the over under on where I think I'll do better The thirty seven is the rM So anyway, apparently he was thinking of three. Maybe he was thinking of three every time. Apparently two celebrities guessed it That's boring U I would suggest checking out. I think the whole bit with a very pregnant Aubrey Paulitz, who describes herself as, I believe, quote, dangerously pregnant is really funny. And the way they bring back that wonderful actress to you know, to help her deliver what's her name? I love that actress. I don't know. I know you're tal about don't know her name. But anyway, I did it You know And it seems like you know what, I got to be honest. I sound like I'm talking to. I feel like I'm accusing Alex of something here and their infrastructure interests. But it strikes me that you actually are more interested in this as a void comp I think you're more interested in how the person handles the questions rather than what their answer is. That's not a criticism. but it strikes me that that's the part you most enjoy about watching more than one. It's like job interviews. It's not so much whether you know they just want to watch your thinking process. Absolutely. Well, and that's something sorry again, Taskmaster. Like part of the joy of Taskmaster once you've watched it for a while is going seeing how somebody, especially in the early seasons, the first three to five seasons, watching how each person tries to figure out how to do something is endlessly interesting to me You know, because there's always there's be people who think outside the box, there's going be people who cheat. Alan Murray will give somebody a hundred dollars. Like there's always people who would do like the most ludicrous things It's just always fun to watch people who are more competitive than they realize how to do something well in public That was pretty smart. That's I'll get the taskaster eventually.aybe I' saving it for prison. We'll see. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, ye I think I'm doing that with James Joyce Um, I think I'm coming out better in that deal No, no, no, I was just, I'm sorry, I should explain. I was was so there's the way Joh my friend John Sirkees is referring to is it's something John Rodic has said more than once, which is if you say anything about Shakespeare the work of William Shakespeare. he says, No, I haven't read Shakespeare yet I'm saving that for prison. And I always thought that was funny So anyway, now my joke's not that funny. I was going to I told Alex, I'm saving James Joyce to not read later rather than not read now. I thought that was kind of funny You never read any James Joyce in school? Yeah, yeah, yeah sure. I mean, I read I've read Doublinners, I've read the short fiction and I've, you know just I started you I mean it's why I know a lot about it, but I started started. You got most of it, right I hope so. I mean, Ive fad I've fad so much stuff that's u Anyways, I'll get to it, I'll get to it But Void compomf is what I'm saying to you. Hooter Vosser, nice place Yeah, I guess This episode of Reconcilable differeiffnces is brought to you by Vitally, the AI powered workspace for customer success managers. Vitally's purpose built AI is for scaled customer success there to help you better understand customers in order to reduce churn, unlock growth, and Always stay a step ahead Basically all the things that make you great at your job Vitally delivers the clarity, automation, and AI driven insights that your team needs so that you can move faster and stay aligned and drive customer outcomes at scale Vitally AI surfaces insights from every customer interaction to unlock another level of CS productivity, visibility in collaboration. It's why Vitally is trusted by more than six hundred leading B two B SaaS customer success teams Now how's this for a great offer. You ready for this? Vitally is currently offering a free pair of AirPods Pro for every reconcilable differences listener who takes a qualified demo call. Nothing wrong with that. So if you're a customer success decision maker, schedule your call right now. You go to vitally. io slash diff. I'm going to spell that for you because really would benefit from spelling V I T A L L Y dot o slash diffs S D I FFS V I T A L L Y. o slash stiffs and you go and you're gonna to schedule this and then you get a free pair of AirPods Pro. When you take a qualified demo, you know, you just go in and do it. Our thanks to Vitally for supporting recconcilable differences and all of relayFM have a nap today, so that's I have no idea what this next one's about Uh what is our second item sorry sorry, sorry, sorry, closing parenthes. That's the end of follow up, yes Yeah, yeah. Okaykay. now we got a topic and I don't know what it is Well, so Oh, do I sound mad? I'm not mad? No, no, no. I need I need to preface and explain this. I have to say, I'm not trying to turn this podcast into John Talks about video game It just so we tell why people love that. It just it just so happens that A new video came out for one of my favorite developers. I talked about it, then there was a little bit of a gap and then I was having a time with it and then I talked about it again. Yes. And between the time that I talked about it again and made a a little video and we talked about that right between that and now Guess what happened? What? New game? other game? the video game franchise that I have been playing for the past roughly twelve years continuously. Destiny Yes. has been canceled What Yeah I that that oh my goodness, I know personally several people who play that game you and I while you've played with some of them I know several people who play that game a lot and very diligently Is this like when they stop making my deodorant and I wonder if I didn't buy enough? Why the hell would they not do that Yeah, this is I mean Big deal like when something like this happens, In many ways, it's not a surprise anyone who's following the franchise because Things can't go on forever, right.. And I can tell you that when the app on my Apple TV. I don't think they've got a dedicated team on. I really don't Um When this franchise was announced when Destiny was announced, it was from the developer of then at the time, they were best known for the game Halo, which I'm sure you've heard before that obviously a marathon on the Mac and blah, blah blah, you know bunchie. you know, anyway. what's the company that does portal? Wh's a portal company It' different that's.' what I'm asking.' the name that com A valve valve. Okay, thanks. Yeah, but this is bunge. Anway got it. So they announceced destiny This is going to be their new franchise. They're not doing Hllo anymore They actually handed Hllo off to another development team because Microsoft own the IP, blah, blah, anyway whate This new franchisement for Mudggy And I believe at the time If it wasn't explicitly announced that it was understood or like off the record or whatever, it basically said this is the franchise we're to come out with and it's going to be But they now call a live service game, which is not like you just buy the game and play it and then it's done, you know, Rather it's more like World of Warcraft where it's like You're just going to play this continuously. You know, you you will get the game and we will keep feeding content into the game so you can keep playing it. And anyway, when DNA came out, they're like This is going to be a decade long franchise. whichich is ambitious, rightight? You're like, we made halo. we made halo one halo, two we had a bunch of hllo games, right? did they have the credit? Well, when they said that that ring credible to I mean, it even at the time, it's always seems ambitious because you're like, okay, that's a great plan. love love the love the optimism, but like it's a tough business, right? It's kind of like saying, you know, like the dark years if your game's not out. L the Dark universe. like this is going to be our MCU. We're going to have the mummy and Dracula and we're going to have twelve films just like MCU, like and that's where they come out of the gate with. But guess what? It's a tough business sometimes thingsings don't work out, right But anyway Destiny' is going to be a ten year game That was in twenty fourteen. twenty twenty four was ten years. Whoa. So they made They made it. Yeahah.. Not only that. not only that, but they had Destiny has had a long troubled history where the game has had ups and downs and has disappointed the fans and delighted them and had criticism. I just know what was the name you or the genre live Lve service game And that's different from the idea of DLCs. like you can buy for your Sims and that's different from what you're doing with Dame. A liive service game is like like a living game where like people are playing it and you're constantly feel It doesn't mean necessarily a big world game, but it means that like you're gonna to spend a lot of time and do a lot of stuff. I mean as opposed to the model of like like a movie type model or a regular single player game where you spend money and time to make the game Th then you put out the game and people buy it and they play the game. Is it kind of like is it kind of like Mythic Quest Yeah Myth quuest is also a live service game. It's model on World of Warcraft, which is part a live service game. Okay Yeah. Got it. Thanks. that helps. Where I you just keep people they stumb. R remember she just idea for the dinner party and all the Nazis come? I mean, yeah, there's different kinds of live service games but anyway and obviously Game publishers love them because it's hey, recurring revenue of some kind, right? J retrospect, you thinking about in twenty fif fourteen they're saying ten years in your head knowing, you know, how you are and like When you heard ten years, did you have a mental idea of how many big releases that might represent maybe two I had no idea. and if I had tried to guess, I would have been wrong and so would have everybody else because the game had a really weird history of the way it developed. Yeah, it's But like and also the story was very jumbled and was rebooted several times before they released the first game then and then it came out. One of the criticisms of the original game was like the story makes no sense, where are you going with this? but Here's the thing. Destiny had something. It had that that bungee magic. It had a sense of mystery. There's a reason so many people sort of got addicted to it and started playing it. like it had that something. but it also had lots of problems. Like it is very much like the relationship that you're maybe you're like into the relationship or because of the problems, you know, mayaybe it's not a healthy relationship. anyyway. I don't wantan to personify it too much, but But like but like to decide and just having a world that big. and honestly, if people go to work every day even for six months, thinking that this is going to be a ten year project, that's pretty different from, I'm not sure if they're going to reu up our contract. I mean, I know that's not a perfect example of it, but you would think about that pretty differently. And the way that stuff has to forgive my saying scale to those kinds of things you would have to have And then whatever troubles that you haven't described yet come along I mean, it was a technical quirks or leveling problem? It was everything, right? So here I was on balance. One class of problems that I'm sure you'll be familiar with that has really nothing to do with the game itself and everything to do with business that has to make the game is Bungie. used to be an independent company, then got bought by Microsoft, then got spun off from Microsoft, then got bought by Activision, that spun off from Activism, then got bought by Sonny. This you,'s that's not great. Did't did Activision used to make that pitfall, right? Was that pitall Activision that actually they moon patrol, John I think that was a t. They used they used to yeah. and so that and you can imagine different bosses, different people getting b these business people just like during this time, they're there trying to make destiny, right? You're suddenly whatever whatever size and shape your puzzle piece is, you are now in a completely different puzzle that you didn't pick You're right? I mean if you you get fold it in for the third time, you get folded into another company. I mean, like especially with all those Th hedge fund monsters, like who knows And the people who are running the people who are running bungee, they are motivated by stuff that has nothing to do with the games and everything to do with them getting a payday, right That's tough. All right. And then Creative problems. We all heard about movies that have like there's all sorts of like creative problems where the writers don't agree with the directors and they had someone come in into reot. they want to find out what it means to go into turnaround. And yeah, and they're going into reshoots. This game had that over and over and over when it was out or when it was being worked out Before it first came out, they had an idea for what the game's going to be and they said, no, no, no, never mind. We're going to change all of that right before release. And that really hurt the original release They had various teams of people who had I a great idea about what the next phase of this game is going to be like. and then they would put it out and the players would be like, no, that's not it And new chief Yeah. And then they'd and then they'd scramble and they'd go, and then they'd is that like' like bet like beta testers No, this is the this is the live service game, the actual real game that people would pay for. It's like there's no no bet don't want that. Once a live service game is out, there's no more beta. Like there was a beta of Destiny and I played it, but there once the beta is out, there's no more make sense. And they would chart like there's different there's different business models you can do for live service games like World of Warcraft, I believe just just a straight up monthly subscription. Is that that like works But Destiny never did a monthly subscription, unless you can't like your subscription to Playsttation Network, but anyway, you could play it on PC eventually with no subscription. But anyway, what they did is they would sell you the game and then they would sell you annual expansions. And so you wouldd just pay in these lump sums. You'd buy the game, then you'd buy the annual expansion forty bucks. the next year you buy another expansion, then you buy another expansion. sometometimes they have a little mini things. you'd be doing out money. And of course, in the game you can buy horse armor. So Is that activity opportunities or stuff you get content for when you're you're allows to go do this adventure, but it doesn't mean you get avent It comes with, you know a single player campaign and story and new missions and new classes and new weapons and new, you know, But the point is you wouldn't pay you wouldn't just pay on a monthly basis like a recurring bill. If you don't pay that what do you play what's what you're playing like a basic get started adventure or something U Well, the original game came with a single player campaign and a bunch of, you know, everything was new, then, R right? So I forget what it was. It might have been a seventy dollars game or sixty a full price game. triple a big full story But then the idea was, okay, the game's been out for a few months. We're going to give you the first expansion for another twenty bucksight. And then the second expansion. But those add up after a while, don't they? And then there's going to be a big expansion and it's going be forty bucks or sixty bucks, or eighty bucks, or anyway So that's how that's how they priced it. They were kind of in a situation where they needed to produce content that people wanted to buy. I reminder of something I'm sorry I'llut up after this. Just reminder of something that late great Leslie Harpold likes to say that I enjoy quoting even if it's just marginally related to something someone's saying She was talking about the world, I don't know if she's talking about the world tech, but the early like two thousands era of tech and stuff And she said, I hate buying toys for my toys And I always thought that was such a smart way to put it. because like at a certain point, you do realize you are buying toys for your toys Destiny was kind of structured more like like a Marvel franchise where every once a while, there's a new movie and you pay to see the new movie And maybe they put out a movie you're like, uh, I'm not actually, I don't really do I want to pay for It like with tri play games. don't people have a sense of like Isn't there some sense of value of like no matter how much I enjoyed it, It went to I played it to it finished too fast, right? Isn't that is it is that true for expansion packs as well? Well yeah, thats that's part of the challenge of a live serervice game is that you have these really dedicated players who you're going to put out this what you think is a huge amount of content and they're going to play it all on a weekend because they play like twenty four hours a day and they're really good. And then you have the other people who you can put out a whole bunch of content and they're going to take three months to play through the same thing that person went through in a weekend. The person that went through in the weekend is going to be like, C on, come on, where's more content? I played you released the thing and I played through it, whereere's more? Whereas the person who takes three months to play it they're going to be like, you got to slow down. I can't play through all this content. I feel like I'm a hamster on a wheel and it iss not fun anymore. I just feel like I'm racing to catch up to where everybody else is so I can even experience the content And how do you make it a againame let alone kill that room full of rabbits? different franchise. But yeah, so and it did have a story shambling as it was. they they eventually eventually cohered into a kind of overarching story. kind of like, I'm useually the Marvel movies because it's something you're familiar, but like kind of like the Marvel movies, like they're doing the whole Thanos and Infinity Stones thing. And in the beginning, it's not clear like you Ironman or whatever like you don't really see the overarching story, but eventually they settle on o, there's going to be like an Infinity Stone in moie occasionally,'re gonna see They're not all like Iron Man in a million ways. mean so many ways because that's probably pound for pound the best Marvel movie. But like one of the ways that not everything like Marvel is not like sorry is not like Iron Man is you unexpectedly at the end of the film find yourself going, oh my god There's more to this. I hope M Fury gets the team together But yeah, but early on, yeah, early on in the thing, you're like, you can vaguely see the outlines of like where this is going to go. But I mean every dollar is made of dimes. Like you've got to like do the work. And I mean, like what people were saying about stuff like, I mean, how much did you love seeing that animated Spider Man? My kid and I saw that in the theater. You know, John Mulaney plays Peter Parkker and now and it was like it was so freaking funny that Nicholas Cage ed played a character in Monika This you know, the noir, Spider noir. So funny. And now they've made it a movie and most of the articles are about how Oh Nicholas Cage is funny, he'll do anything. but like it sounds, it just sounds like it sucks And it's like, I'm sorry. I' just I'm shutout now. I'm shout now. I don't know anything about video games, so I'm always behind. All right, so I don't know if Siderormor' got better re views, but I'll probably watch in a video, but we'll see. Yeah, yeah. I mean, but it was but it was so spectacular when when when Peter, one of the Peters and May And whenever when they go down the elevator, you know, into that the secret room in Aunt May's house That is just like In addition to just the way that movie's animated way it looks with the, you know, off kilter frames and everything and loving just how miles is, That room full of Spider Man stuff was so thrilling. It reminds me of the first time you see a tie fighter. in Andor, and you're like, you know what En that Tie fighter That That T fighter was not like Spray on Star Wars That t that when that tie fighter, it's it's thrilling in the same way that it felt You know, in nineteen seventy seven That's hard to pull off Yeah. and the Marvel thing, they kind of had like, you know, eventually you could see that they were leading up to an Avengers movie. even if you didn't know too much about theromics, you're like, okay, they're introducing here after here, right, bet they're to have a, you know,ick you mention And the after Critics things were genuinely thrilling at the time. Yeah He's going to combine R. But the Avengers wasn't the end pointoint. The Avengers was like like they kind I feel like they kind of have like a like a medi term goal, which is we're going to make a bunch of these movies to lead to the Avengers movie. But then of course they have we got our big bad. we got to deal with. That's not the This. It's not the big bad in the Avengers movie They got to build up to, you know, face them Chitariis. That's all they got to deal with. Yeah, right. And then, you know, and there repercussions for that battle through the rest of the movies, right? And then eventually get to the big bed and you get an Iiron and gets sad Remember he's finhing end game. All right. now you'rere just making me mad. Yeah. I don' wantt talk about these movies. So basically Destiny did that only much less successfully. They had they had some stop offffs along the way. They had some characters. They eventually if you were playing the game, you realize we are part of the whatever saga that we can kind of see where this is going. We kind of see what the big bad's going to be. Eventually the big Bad is revealed and roughly ten years into the franchise, they released an expansion where you face the big bad. Basically they released their Avengers E game And we all played it and it was really good and everybody liked it And we defeated the Big bad Um And then It's like, okay well Are we done? And kind of like the Marvel movies, it's like, well, we do want to keep making this because it's a big money maker and people like it. So no, that's not the end Avengers E game isn't is going gonna be Marvel movies after Avengers Engame Just like the MCU was a little bit out to sea. L God, I'm not we're not sure Where we're going to go with That's not to paraphrase Prick H. Williems, they're producing content It really some of those really did just start to feel like content and forgive my saying using my word homework. I'm not the first person to point this out. But at a certain point it just became even when my kid and I were still going to movies and show up Um There was that like just going to some of these and even with people I love like Benedict Wong and or Benedict Cumberbatch and, you know, the guy who plays chain overad Oh my God, the first Atman, how thrilling was that move the quQuantumania one. the post the post Thanos. That's that's again, now that's another one of those people standing in rooms in Atlanta It looks like people standing in rooms in Atlanta Patrick A H Williams has a video that is currently only on Nebula. It has not come to YouTube yet, but And I'm not going to say the name of the video because it uses a stupid word that I wish he'd avoided But he makes a really good case All those blockbuster ish movies on Netflix and Prime and all those things. I don't know who said it first, you know, somebody like Blankchck or op house, but like it's a movie. These are movies that don't exist. These are movies that cost in some cases one hundred and eighty three hundred and twenty in the case of that Like, I love the book series. What's the one with Mr. Pinut? a terrible one you know, with mr. Peanut. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The one, the one with Chris with the kid from Parks and Rec And the girl from Stranger things And it's the one it's the one that everybody hates on Netflix. And I think it cost three hundred twenty million dollars. And really just to cut to the nutraph on all of this what Patrick says is like, I'm going to put it the way I would put it None of these are anybody's favorite movie You know, there's a wonderful video notes in those notes. Wonderful Mir of July video, a short video she did over a decade ago. I think it's called something like Are you someone's favorite person I don't think That John Krzinski movie where he's supposed to be kind of like Indiana Jones I really, along with Patrick H. Williams I really doubt that's anybody's favorite movie. So like, for example, who's the big what's the name of the big bad? in your game the witness The witness. Okay. now Just like, you know, you know my thing where like I look at the three D printing sites for models once or twice a week And I often act in the same way that like I see what my kid talks about or whatever, but I pick up on what's hot right now with nerds who have three D printers. And it's often, honestly, in the same way that I used to look at torrent trackers to see how well my friends bands were doing I mean, I had this idea for before Champagne, I had this idea of company. I had this idea to like have a service where people could find out how well their records are doing on Fll sharing as a metric. but never got the money for that. but u But like is the witness Like, I've never heard of the witness Is he like well it's like is the lore of this game well known outside of it as much as the cat with a with a eight sided diamond over its head whatever The lore of this game is sometimes not that well known inside the game because you can play this game and ignore the lore. Some players do that But within the game, I think all the people who are Sad Destiny' over know about when it started, what TV franchise would you say it's closest to in terms of like? That's the thing about destiny. the magic of destiny is that it like It's not like anything else. It is like a combination of things you might be familiar with. So anyone whoever describes it has to say, well, it's like X mixed with Y, mixed with Z And you can kind of pick a couple of obvious answers for X, Y. I mean, in the case of the thing we always come back to with this where I feel so berefted of honestly, the part that makes me feel bad is like you've been so clear about saying no, you just can't you can't just go watch a four K run through of this. That is not the same thing as playing the game So what you're saying here really lands with me Right? I mean, it's like it would be like I don't want to be ableist, but like it would almost be like saying, well, there's this experience. That's really amazing But you're only allowed to experience two of those senses, not all five Like it would be like taking somebody to a nice restaurant with their mouth closed and their nose covered and letting them like just look at the drink. I mean, again, Marvel is Marvel is a great example. Say you just watched a Cendor's end game and you're like boy, what a run rom Iron Man to Avenges end game There's lot of J there's a lot of business in that. And then someone comes in and go, oh, I've never seen a Marvel movie. Should I watch one You can't give them a two hour homework assignment and be, yeep, you've now experienced what I Iag can you imagine saying to somebody Oh, you know what's really good? E game, you know what? that Marvel movie is really good. Go and watch part one first And you're like, okay so I w want to watch this two and a half hour movie that's part one of something and it is plays upon fifteen or twenty other movies that you haven't seen. that you haven't seen to lead up to this. Right. And it's not like you have to have to see them. likeike that's the whole thing. they try to make them stand alone, but like of peopleople never heard of Gard have the galaxy such an unexpected delight sitting in that theater while He was walking around kicking that little frog while that song played. I was just like, this is, oh man. they've made just just think about all the ups and downs between Iron Man and Endgame. All the movies that were like the stinkers that didn't land, the delights like Gardians of the Gall. you end up lovevingpite it. Like you know, like I happen to love Captain America But honestly, the second act of that movie really could have used some The whole bit where he's like selling bonds and stuff like that, really could have used some work, but he's so delightful in that He's so great. they can't all be Ironman, you know But yeah, no, I feel you. Okay. so so this game, where are we at with this Well, so the next analogy I'm going to make continuing on the Marvel thing is A When after Endgame, as the Marvel movies were struggling to figure out where do we go next? How do we continue this? Because they certainly wanted to continue. You got to keep making those dollars, right? And the fans wanted more of it too, but it was kind of at sea for a while. and The most recent thing that they're choosing to do. I don't even know what's releasedate of this, but you'm sure you're aware of it. I don't want to spoil. Have you seen trailers for the upcoming bigig Marvel movie Do you want me to tell you about it? Do you care? Yeah, yeah, sure I mean, it strikes me that I mean, like I just it's so ridiculous How much the MCU was part of my world for a while Not least because my kid liked it too. It was a genuine thing that I think that we both really enjoyed alongside reading comics on our own. But like there was a point where like it really felt like Just to give my outside Andy Rooney on this title you know, it really felt like there was a time where like, wow, they were really beset with external and candidly internal problems I mean, for example, let's say it The actor who's very, very talented and I've enjoyed a lot who was gonna to be the new big bad I remember correctly that he turned out to be a problem? then you don't want on on your that big on your poster who is as So instrumental to the next like three movies. Say sayay that wasn't the case and he didn't do those things I don't think people are into that character I there's that too It's funny because again, if you go back to Guardians of the Galaxy, You've got Josh Broowlin in that as I want to say Ronan Whoever the big bad in that is, but then you've also got Pace Lee Pace. as's to say you got Lee Pace who's great in that. And then don't you have Josh Broowland Whoever the big guy in the chair is The father of Amy P. you go. that's that's Kurt Russell No,' that's in a later thing So anyway it doesn'tatter it doesn'tatter But I mean, even in one of my all time favorites, I don't know if you remember this or were listening at the time, but One time for Due by Friday We did a challenge of ranking the MCU movies that you've seen And like I feel like Ironan was probably number It's amazing I mean, what an improbable year for movies. Um But like honestly the Guardians of the Galaxy goes so high. But even that part of it, of all the things that I would take away from the success of Guardians of the Galaxy, The slightly confusing there's two bad guys in this and more of than her father. like for me You know But then also you can even take something as awesome as Rcket and Groot like like Gorgu, Grogu, little baby yoda. Like you can just grind that into the ground. Like I don't want to see another burger King ad with the godamn yoda in it And it's like I understand why they do that. Like you said, I mean You know, money machine go up. But the lessons that they take away from that stuff can be so baffling. And I feel the reason I say it in this context is in the Jonathan, I forget his name, doesn't matter But like, weren't there a number of things where they ran into probably COVID, where they ran into external, but then also internal problems of like, wow, you're so pot committed. to this long approach that you haven't really thought out in a satisfying way So the go to and the move that Marvel is making after some time in the wilderness with various TV shows and movies that were just not really notot really matching the magic of There's nobody in the world that could have been more pumped for a show called Hawye in me. Yeah. Hawkeye the the comic but Matt Fraction And Taved What's his head is one of my absolutely all time favoritite. look Guy. by math fraction is so important to me. And can I also tell you what I'm a hugean of that girl The play Girl Hawkeye. likeike I love her in pitch perfect She's incredible and I she's absolutely incredible in true grit She's great in everything But like that show, it really looked from the first frame, it felt like it was both planned and shot at a mall I mean, I watched that show too. I didn't think that was the show's main problem, but yeah, there's They've had some difficulties and they try lots of things to their credit, they try lots of stuff, both in TV and in the movies, but it wasn't quite working. So their their move, their upcoming move is extremely predictable, you know anything about Hollywood, which is First of all, the next movie or I don't know, their' upcoming movie I don't know if it's the next one is going to be Avenger is call in Doomsday Oh sorry okay, sorry. right? People like adventure John, John, what is what is canonically my favorite comic series? Well me put it differently For what comic series do I own four t shirts Oh Fantastic four. Fantastic four I have never made it through the first act of that movie. And can I just mention that it has both pass aantic fantastic form. Well we're getting to the Doomsday. But first I just want to say in passing like this. Could there anybody be anybody who's more pumped for Fantastic four because I mean, of the experiences I had reading with my kid, I'm not gonna cry But of the experiences I had reading with my kid, there's some pages in FF Um, which is that were really, really important to me. and and to him. And there couldn't be it's got John, do you know what a crush I have on Princess Margaret in the crown. Do you know what a crush I have in her in that seasonons her seasons of the TV show couldouldn't make it through the first act Fast forward. Hey, guess what? Maron's got other stuff going on. He's doing three D printing and ruining the internet by taking all the water. Okay, what our flash for. Guess what? Robert Downey gets on stage at some dingling event probably south by southwest, takes off his blazer and now he's doctor is he's doctor Doom. Is that correct? Yeah. that's the that's the other that's the thing. The guy played Iron Man and he's out the game in a very memorable and like a not very good movie where he died gone he's out to game. and now I love in game by the way. Of course they did. Well, because because it looks like some kind of a painting from the a. They wrapped it up. They did it. They did all the things. Yeah, I mean, yeah. and like but like when like the when all the portals, ye, I was excited. but I the thing is it seemed like, but pretty much everyone's contract ended at that point and they had like big photo shoot D Numa of that movie you like Did you like the resolution That thatounds fine But like most importantly from a business perspective, like that was the end of the story that they had start in improper. Jeremy R J Jeremy Rner steing And probably they made it to the end. They didn't just make it to Avengers. They made it all the way through past. I remember reading I feel like on more than one occasion. Like so what do I know Chris Evans from? I know Chris Evans, well I know from a few things Okay I know I loved him in a movie I loved, which is called Knives Out. I loved him in a movie. I adore. Scott Pilgrimam versus the World. But apart from that, a lot of the Chris Evans I know is playing Steve Rogers I remember reading, I feel like on more than one occasion. You know that bit people do were like if if you're having trouble, like blink twice. where he kept he was talking about not endangured servitud. That's too putting too strongly. But he had a multi multi multi contract your contract or movie contract with Marvel in the most deceorous way that he could, he was blinking twice I think he really hated how committed he was to standing in a room in Atlanta So I've heard things about people Chris Pratt, Chris Pratt seems to just just keep failing up Lake What was the stat? I just saw a stat? you know that one that fake stat that used to be that the women who are forty are more likely to die in a terrorist attack and get married. The new one I heard is, what was it? there's Oh, shoot There's there's ors and movie directors with female movie directors aren't as common as like movies with actors named Chris. Like you just get these people who just keep and it's fine, but I'm going to find the name of that movie because I'm going get yelled out about it It's It becomes frustrating I'm going gonna stop talking. It becomes frustrating. and it's It doesn't seem like this is also listening to you Fllowas on your podcast talking about some companies that we like and listen to relay today and it's like You just find yourself going like, Ah you know? I'm really into what your company does, but like I have been in the past, but like I don't understand what's guiding your decision making and I don't love your taste And having Robert Downey Junr., who's wonderful. I think he's great. I'm really glad he's had a career He's awesome.. There's a wonderful interview he did with David Letterman. Did you ever see him on Letterman's show The my next guest Nissan introduction, or whatever it was called He goes to like, Robert Downey Jr's farm where he like has rescue animals and' just he just strikes me as very delightful byy. I've talked too much, but like when I saw that image of him going up there, I was like, o man, you somehow simultaneouslyly seem to like drip diarrhea on three different things that I love Man, why are you got to screw up the whole like Ironman thing by bringing him back? That's well because they couldn't figure out how to make Marvel movies that people wanted to see. So like if only there were some young actors that could be we got to bring back we gott to bring back the people that everybody loved and who can we get and how much can we pay them? obviously that you know what I love I love a swing. Like if I ever got to his part in the movie, I have a feeling I would have really enjoyed Ralph Innocon as Galactus because I love him as Chris Fanch Finchci on the office. I love him In Chernobyl. I love I love Ralph Indison Game of Thrones. I love him in everything he's in I never even made it to that part. And now on top of it, the diarrhea drip has just splattered all over Fantastic four and Iron Man and candidly my just gut sense of how well this company's taste aligns with how I want to spend my time. So we'll see how that movie does, but like the movie is pretty pretty cynical, but also like couldn't get through Fantastic four. I'm just saying that's what you might call Canaryian in a Coma. Yeah, but this is going to be an Avengers movie. And it's even got Ivan Ozen. What's that guy's name? even Rs Bakarat, the fellow It's got Russo Bothers back d. I love them. And they did make the They did c war, right? Not these new ones. And they did a lot of community. They did a ton of episodes of community And this the destiny tieback is Destiny had a similar situation with the beloved character who died. and they brought him back Because you know, you can bring people even though not back somehow who's what's the name of the charter I was, you know, Nathan Fhillian from Firefly family. Yeah He does the voice of of Cade six. Anyway. Cade six okay. Yeah. He died It was very dramatic They brought him back in the cynical Robert Downy Jr. kind of like Robertowny Jr. is D Dor Jom mov And they did all of that before They finished up with their Avengers End Game store I heard you like Nathan Fillian so we put Nathan Phillian and your Nathanhill. I that was like the final expansion had basically return to Robbery Dy Jr. We loved him. he was dead. He's back. Oh your old friend is back. We're gonna to have a great. And everybody loved it. And I don't know if people are going everyone's going to love Avengers doomsday But everybody loved the final Destiny expansion where we finished the story.. But then there were more Destiny expansions. One of them was even Star Wars theme. They mixed literal actual licenseed Honest to God, Disney Lucasil Star Wars into Destiny. What? That sounds one of those like one of those amiibo kind of. What's the game I used to like on What was the game where you could play in the house and be a Disney character? What was that called? At used don love that game The other one'm talking about Kingdom Hearts Human Hearts, I think is the old one, but there's one on our machine that we've got, probably the PlaySation Oh yeah, Disney Infinity? Yes, I adored that game where I have still have all the characters. The characters are the little sorry, the little figures are beautiful I've still got Ironman, Luke Skywalker. I've still got a ton of those. And all you did was walk around a house and like make couches Yeah they didn' they didn't actually put like Star Wars characters or things into the game. What What do you call that? Is there a name for that game? that's not disparaging? What do you call kanging? we just walk around and make couches? What do you call them whereere you make couches? you know, like how you walk you're in a house and you're walking around with Princess Jasmine or whatever and And like you're Jiminy Cricket and you walk around and like do stuff to the house. advent. I never play Disney Infinity. What you call that? What do you call that kind of game? I don't know I don't know what of what Jre or Disney Infinity is. All right It be a sandbox game. It'sum bum me out. I had a friend that used to write for that and it so bummed me out when they stopped the game Disney Infinity All right, continue Anyway, that they already my point is they had already pulled all the moves that you can imagine pulling before they got to their big satisfying ending, which was satisfying with then they had to continue the game and they mixed in Star Wars, which is interesting, but like even that wasn't enough to save it. So like Things were going downhill. The way they The licensing deal won't last forever, right? They Yeah. It was just for one expansion. it was a cool expansion and people mostly liked it. but like here's the thing. what your mind it like a Darth Vader or a Kit Fisto? Like who shows up? No, no, it was like it's hard to explain. It's like a Star Wars wh. Pick a franchise that you like. Let's say Game of Thrones. o And now I'm going to mix Star Wars in, but there's not going to be any look Sywers It' not going be Darth faders,'s not going to be X wing People on gamees're going the Jedi are more like the brothers. They're gonna to have lightsabers and there's going to be music that sounds like Star Wars Music, but isn't Star Wars music? there's gonna be vehicles that look like Star Wars vehicles, but aren't exact starars It's like It's like I was in my house but it's not house. That I don' know. That sounds not only like a fever dream that sounds potentially extreme It was actually kind of cool. That's cool. What they monitor in games like this, like what you monitor for TV show is your ratings, How your ratings doing? rightight? Yeah. For live service games, what you monitor is like the active player base. Wh is play How many people are playing this game right now? And you can graph it at any given moment in time, how many people are playing this live service game? And you get a graph and that graph tells you things, right? And after the big end of the story, that graph went down, down, down. evenven indicating indicating to a savvy and I'm going to use my nonxistent skills to say, indicating They have a very interesting problem or opportunity depending on how you look at it, which is there are people who love playing that game and are playing it a lot. And for some reason They're not playing it now. Yeah. fewewer people are playing I know that sounds dumb but you understand what I mean In the same way that you would say, like, for example, I was explaining on a program recently that I recently learned, I don't know if you'll seeen it do by Friday, but I recently learned what the Michelin three stars mean and I've never known it before. Michelin iss a company that makes tires. They made a book starting in like the thirties in France about like however long ago I don't care but about like saying, oh but the key idea being that You know what? the kind of people who buy tires are the kinds of people who drive cars A of people who drive cars go places. In this country, increasingly, more and more people are using their cars to go somewhere Not just to the grocery store, but to a destination. And hey, just like y' all know, there's three stars in Michelin number one means Number one's a huge deal. One star is a huge deal. Very few restaurants get any stars. If you get one star, it means that you're really extraordinary like in the area where you are Number two Two stars, Michelan stars. Did you know this, by the way I did know it because he told me it before. Okay. Sorry, sorry about that. G other people haven't get it if you get a second michion inst store? becauseuse I said to Alex, it's confusing because in America, There's some people who do thumbs up thumbs down. other people who do four stars for things. otherther people do five stars It'll never happen, but I think we need to go to seven stars. Seven stars will keep people honest Forcing the of them to have something like a bell curve will make a ton more sense Um, What was it talking about What the second and third star mean? One star It's really exemplary as a restaurant in its area. Number two Two stars, twoo m one stars I love this. It's worth a detour. So if you're in your car with your mission tires You know what? Where are we going? Oh, we're going to Chicago. Oh, check it out In Chicago, there's a place that's worth stopping for this restaurant, two Michelin stars And here's this is the best part. Three Michelin stars, which is very, very rare. So great to know Three Michelin stars means essentially it's worth a trip of its own Like it's worth this restaurant, this is something like I guess the most famous like famous restestaurant I've been to is probably the French laaundry, which is I think that kind of thing where it's like it's worth, I mean, on one level, honestly, it's worth flying to and going there But it's definitely worth getting in your car with your michelion tires and going there What I love about the whole idea of the Michelin guide and what it actually means is they found a way to I wouldn't use the word content to generate like interesting ideas for people who use their products And that's really, really smart. Like how many of you out there right now that are over thirty Maybe over forty. How many of you have ever had green bean casserole with durkey onions and mushroom soup That is a recipe that comes from a free cookbook, that Campbell soup It gave away in the fifties And it's why everybody makes it. which is if you think about it, it's a great idea. They're catering to like how people who love your product will want to use it. The reason I'm saying this, it just strikes me that if you've got the numbers that say Wow Like I'm thin of this alm like sight meter or not s meter. What's the one that Van did We would go and look at your web stats and you can see it in practically real time Um No'm like you're in the knock. You know, you could say, oh my go, there's nineteen hundred people here right now. And then to be able to even slightly triangulate that with the release of products You've got an interesting problem Because it isn't the people don't play your games. It's the people who love your games the most are not getting enough of your game And then how would you even approach that? You can't just put out a Michelin guide and make that better Yeah, if you graph that line over the life of the game, you wouldd see a lot of ups and downs after the after the Avengers endnd game The downs were just like, even even the Star Avengers end game is Kate six coming back Uh yeah, yeah. Like they they they packed it all what I was saying is like that Marvel had to do this after their Avengers end game, but and like and like Marvel the results seem to say that they had a pererhaps a difficult time figuring out the smartest way to proceed Yeah. and the most recent the most recent acquisition was Sony bought them a little while ago and Sony paid a lot of money for them and Sony had a lot of grand plans for for bunch And w so Microsoft owns actctivision now And Sony's bunch That's right And of course, Sony paid a lot of money and they expected a big return Be sorry, because Sony makes PlayStation,uh? Yeah. And Destiny was this big cash cow. and then they have kind of buyer's remorse because just after they bought it, everything sort of came to an end and number got. Right, of course. And then of course they you know what they did it's like buying pgs. Yeah. And there's clauses in the contract that say, hey, if we buy you and you screw the pooch, then we get to take over and we get to kick out all your exact. You know that sounds like a hedge fine it's it' It's not a great situation. So the end came and like they basically announced, Hey, we've got one more expansion. They' supposed to have an expansion that was supposed to come out in May and then they delayed itntil June and then they said this June expansion. This is gonna be the last one. This is it After this, the game is done. sorry, sorry. Cing in June. and when did they announce that ike we knew there was you said you sound like in the last couple of weeks. they said, Hey guys, one more thing is coming in June and then the games U because it is likes like EL or just like new no new content. No new content. Now thing is why would that that you've? I mean, isn't this like that thing that's a phenomenon and I call the first Toyota We're like the first c that rolls off if you think about it in terms of amortization. The first car that rolls off the line is probably a hundred million dollars and the second one is eight hundred dollars. You know what I'm saying? Like they've put a lot of effort into this world And so Given what they do for a goddamn living, What would they rather be making Wellow This insane The thing is it does cost a lot of money to run the factory. Everything costs a lot of money, John. That's why they call it a business Um Yeah Like we knew there was an expansion coming and it got delayed tntill June. and that basically they're just saying like it's so clear that they had they had they had a timeline that said there's going to be an expansion in hereun's going to contin continue, but they're just not going to work on this. They had like they had like two or three expansions lined up. But now that this is going to be the last one, they're basically dumping everything that was going to be in those later ones that they whatever they finish. It's like pencils down. Obviously you're not done, but pencils down, whatever you have completed now maybe a little bit more like there's a fire alarm. We got to get out Yeah. That's we're shipping we're shipping what we have and that will be it. And here's the thing Because of the tortured history of Destiny, Destiny one lasted from I think, twenty fourteen to twenty seventeen or something And Destiny two Lasted from twenty seventeen. I might be getting of the year wrong, but anyway Destiny one didn't last that long. and then Destiny two came along pretty rapidly after that and lasted the rest of the twelve years Okay, Okay. Destiny one, you can still play right now. It hasn't received an update since Destiny two came out, like since before Destiny two came about you s on NBC, you know, it's new to you Every day somebody's born, everybody day somebody's born it's a live service game. Because it's a live service game They have to run servers to continue to keep the game up. It's not changing at all. It's the same as it ever was. Well they wouldn't get rid of I mean, you could still What? you can still. So you pay you your sixty nine, ninety nine. You got a tripleA game. Let's say you bought it It's like in twenty four, you boughtght Destiny in twenty fourteen You can play I'ming is if you bought it in twenty six. Let's say like in my case, I've got a Playsttation four. I'm not sure if you can still buy Destinyore. Well, I' got alaysttation four that I hardly ever touch. If I bought a Playsttation five and I wanted to play Destiny, I could go and y You could absolutely buy. In fact, what they're doing is they're packaging up all the expansions and all the content that has ever been released for Destiny two into one big final purchase that Oh, that's. Oh, that feels like a sunset I'm I feel like a sunset I mean, they' announced that. they're not this is the end of the game. It's not gonna anyer, but they did say they're going to keep the servers up. So you'll they say we're going to keep the game running. Yeah, it's live. It's a live service game, but it's service dead game. Yeah because it will know it is it is encased in amber And this is that there's still rotation. You mean like when the doctor, u puts uh puts, u puts Galifrey into the time cube Yeah. You'll have hope And like I'm not sure how they've afforded to continue to run Destiny One for almost a decade where I don't think they make money John it's like a business. That's what it is. But like I'm not sure how much if they makeoney confused when they have to pay money to run their business. Yeah the other ways that they make money on the game is they sell you cosmetics in the game. They sell you things that change your appearance in the game. Oh, it's like buying a half for your dog for real for actual real money And so that's another source of money. and sure you can still pay real money for things in Destiny One. So I'm I do not understand this at all Okay. so like this is the ten percent part of me that goes like, oh yeah, absolutely there are there are things here that I cannot begin to understand that is behind the scenes. It could be that the service contract that they have with the companies that do the servvers is fraud for some reason. they might as well go ahead. They' never really liked working with them. I mean, to me, like so many of these decisions come down in my experience to things that that are rarely visible They sometimes become visible. obbviously if it involves like, you know, U fraud or you know, phys' not it's totally explicable. business It's a regular business business decision. Not enough people are playing the game. I don't understand that, John. I thought your game was popular with people Well, you used to be in twenty fourteen. Yeah, It's had a lot of ups and down since twenty fourteen. Sometimes's been popular or sometimes it's been less popular. The overall trend though has been downward. If you were to average it out, best fit line, Kiiran Haley will come in here and draw you a thing from twenty fourteenward. Yeah. It's down Yeah It's less, you know, the highs were lower, became lower and l lower. Each one of the highs, each new expansion and had fewer people than the expansion before it. evenven though some of the content has been great, even though everyone loved the Avengers endgame, you know thing, it's just It's been going down, down at a certain point. you can't afford to make new content that game because you have to pay all these artists and story, you know. I mean, like, okay, so you seem like you get this, you as you say, grock this. Is this the kind of thing I'm Stesquez an outsider. Is this the kind of thing that happens Is this just the kind of thing that happens? likeike where it's not going to be the long running franchise. likeike I mean I remember Sims back in the day being how it was with the what's it called orthogonal view or whatever, whatever they call that view the What's the one where you look at it from that an ismetric?ymetric. Thank you But now my kids continues to play Sims. he has the vampire expansion pack. One of my favorite phrases of the last five years, you know my shot has the m teine, my adult has the Vampire expansion pack for that. My kid also plays kind of a similar kind of it seems to me Simsy game that we bought for the Switch. that I see other people playing It looks like one of those like you've got like a me and you do stuff with it that looks kind of like Sims, those kinds of games Have a franchiseing going forever? Is it? possible that those kinds of games are less costly operate because they're not. Lve service games I think some of those are Is that maybe why they got rid honestly like this is not you can tell if something is a live service name or close to one Someone shutting down their servers stops you from being able to play the game. That's can I just say Disney Infinity. S same idea, right? I mean, different games. Like when they shut down the servers. got the little toys I'll send you a photo of my toy. I got the toys, but I can't play it becausecause the game's just not up anymore. Yeah. And that was a live service game. And so to answer your question, like, yeah, live service games usually do end at some point because The technology gets dated user and the users who love it are aware of that and okay with that. Yes. I mean, it depends on where they are. Like with Destiny people are kind of in mourning because it was such a great game that so many people loved for so long. and here's the other thing about this Lots of people Not lots, but people enough a large a number of people that would I can that I can't count on my the fingers on my hand like more than ten, maybe ten, twenty, thirty, forty, maybe fifty people have made their living by making content about destiny, like destiny YouTubers Destiny streamers on Twitch. And again, back to the you've been so you and ATP have been so instrumental in helping me think about a problem have a name for it that involves the size of the pie and the d numa That's something we keep coming back to The President currently has a lot of continues to have a lot of influence with a lot of people on who represent a pie That pie keeps getting smaller. So no matter how much of that pie he wins, that's still a problem for him Now what you're saying here, this game has a pie you know, like a p graph that represents the amount of people who play this game There's some portion of that of people who love the game And you're saying inside of that, irrespective of how much they love it, there are people who make content about the game. and can't I just guess The people who watch the content about the game are the people who really like the game. treat me like I'm for But also, if you make your living, your literal living, you are a full time usuer. It's like start businesses on space Facebook. I'm like I have. All you do is make videos about destiny And destiny is done. what happens to your career? But who who I'm sorry, when that was happening Who was watching those videos I was Is it fair to say then that the Destiny fans Yeah Right, But the Destiny fans aren't going to watch you make content about a game that doesn't have any new stuff coming out for it. Pe would watch it to he, here's the new thing, here's new strategies. Here's how you solve the new puzzle. Here's a fun video of me trying the new thing for the first time. Well terms in terms of survivor and having to build a fire Like you don't have like that little mossy stuff to help you in You don't have a way to get things going. You don't have a way to get something going. You It's like it's like if you have a podcast about Seinfeld, then Seinfeld ends. You can probably continue the podcast for a while, but a rewatch episode but like it's not going to be as good for you. Yeah att a certain point, there's no more Seinfeld. So can really only watch the Puerto Rican parade once so many things I think it was the low point of that season. Yeah That's really not a good episode. but the Froger episode. highighly underrated So so that's where a lot of content creators are in Joh, I have to tell you Bud, I am super surprised by this. I don't know F all about how this world works. Based on nothing but enC data I had a feeling this game was like a monster. L like a monster success. It once was, it once was. But So but the lack of new stuff Are you familiar with the penny arcade comic strip They obviously it's about video games. and It seems like their attention is pulled in million different directions.'s the game? What's the new game? They are not deed g. part of part of the whole bit and you go into their conferences and stuff, part of their bit is that they're kind cast snarky about it, right Is' kind of And like when whenever a new game is in the news, they'll make comics about it because, you know, They're a game industry comic, not a particular game thing and their comic and they haven't talked about destiny in years I see Because it's, you know, it was a big thing for a while, but they fell out of it blah blah, blah. rightight Their comic strip for I guess the twenty fifth yesterday, Monday. is a wordless three pound out comic strip about the endnd of Destiny No words. Oh, that does not feel good. whereere it's like where they're just basically like my post about it was just a saluting emoji for theyre just saluting a game that they loved, evenven though they haven't played it in forever Because lots of people have lots of good But Joh John, isn't that part of my gosh, not even our middle agge. Isn't that part of what starts happening to you in the thirties in your thirties at least where you're like, o You know, it's kind of like Slinny Rolls just died now. suddenly, everybody likek Sinny Rollins. That's fine. But like yeah' exactly what it is like there's something that you like out of the woodwork Yeah. Well, I'm trying to like there are character actors where like, oh, like when u Emmt Walsh died. was I was genuinely like because I had as recently as that year I had loved him in the righteous Gemstones And he is the basis for the podcast that Todd VZiri refuses to do with me called The Elevators But like you don't talk about where you're like or even something like there's always those I see this in the New York Times, I see this in the Guardian where it'll be like, oh Like somebody from a children's show that you loved in the seventies died And you're like, I had not thought of that or even like if somebody in the band crappy in the nineties Right whereere you would go like,, I was so into that band for a while and now that person's dead And that like really kind of hits you. The closest analogy I can get to this is if let's say John Lennon wasn't assassinated. The Beatles were all still alive And they all died in the plane crash in nineteen seventy two By nineteen seventy two, they like other did Ringo have to eat George or anything? the sers? Or maybe how do you pick the year, but like let's pick a year after like no one listens to the beatles anymore They they're old. They' skipping they were fact why they would be in like together you know, they're too old now. They maybe the accept Luren Michael's offer of reforming for the show. Right. likeike yeah, they just, you know They're Passe, okay, But then they all die in the plan plane crash. God of the Beatles an incredible outpouring of like, okay, well, I haven't listened to the Beatles in five years. Right. But jeez guys, the Beatles That's what the end of Destiny two was. People forgive my say the touch Destiny two. The only thing in the room is Elvis Presley. When Elvis Presley died in nineteen seventy seven, he was kind of a mess and everybody knew it. But my goodness has there a somem Yeah, but they never As to me, aces. I g you the line to bleve I'm likeking I'mroud I'm high plus I man. M of my hero don'tear on news stamps. You ever watch, Do ever go back and watch the opening to do the right thing? You ever go back and watch No, I should I need to rewatch the whole moie Oh the was of showing to kids ont was It was kind of a shocking movie at the time. Yeah. Not for the famous reasons, but it was kind of shocking just for like how it looks. Like all the scenes. was Quentin Tarantino before Quentin Tarantino. Absolutely. And but the way he lit it way that John Tuturo looks in the way that like Spike Lee look in that movie, but the movie opens with mostly Rosie Perez Just dancing And it's Fight the Power. It's a different version of Fight the Power with a extra Sack solo on it, but it's not the one I had on cassette and listened to over and over to where I'd memorized the time Elvis. But go back and watch that. It's so thrilling. I do remember that summer I want to say that summer of nineteen eighty nine being in the theater. Now I would play a game where I got to be could do a DLC of Perez, I would do that. She's great in everything Yeah, so it's so it's a it's a sad day like and even and even me. like as I mentioned people who haven't played the game in five years or like are paying tribute to it and like having fo memories server. But you know, when I was talking on these recent podcasts, what was I talking about? I not talking about destiny. I'm talking about Arc Raiders. I'm talking about marathon, right And speaking of Bunie' is going to do, a bungie is continuing. hang on, hang on do you think that's related? Like if there was more destiny to play, you'd be there instead of Marathon? I don't understand that 'a it Marathon seems like a completely different. No, I fell off Destiny just because I felt like the content was just like wasn't doing it for me. It was kind of more it was some some part of it was more of the same, but part of it was just like, almost like almost like falling off in network sitom whereere you're like ah, you know, that's fine. yeah I'vebbed and flowed with the various seasons to use this analogy of destiny. but like sometimes you get into it and come back, but I've never really left it permanently until I started playing extraction shooters, and it's because the destiny was kind of tailing off. It was like I'm also going to use another term I don't really understand. I do understand it. I say that for effect It also has to do with the network whichich is as fewer and fewer people play that game. Yeah, that's true you the idea, if I understand correctly, the idea behind the network effect, which has been like greatly exaggerated As you take something the best example I can think of is the telephone Where there's only one telephone in the world, it's not a very useful telephone The way that the telephone becomes useful is lots of people have it and use it. And then like it spreads that way And it strikes me that like, you know U look my pal J. that you know, my pal R for company that you know, right Didn't he used to play Destiny a lot? would you? Yeah he's gonna he's going to do a post about it, I'm sure. Or, it will Is in Ronent? A again, I'm sure he's been playing other games too. I say his name. Is it weird to say his name? No it's fine. You say it. Yeah. Yeah Yeah so Jesse. Jesse if you're listening Hi Jesse, just used to be my neighbor. I love Jesse Yeah he fell I think he fell off the game He just he just got a good job. goodood for that guy Love Jesso So there's a lot of people who are going to be having a lot of feelings about this, even though it's kind of like it's time had come and people saw it coming a lot of. Having feelings I'm sorry, haaving feelings in the That's a sitcom I mostly stop paying attention to way. Like a Sny R. As in all the Beatles died in a plane crash in nineteen seventy two those con juns Hey, maybe I haven't listened to the Beatles in five years. was on the toilet when he died? Weren't the Beatles something? He was on the toilet when he died And I hate I hate invoking the stupid My don't even know who the guy wrote this book is or whatever, but I did look back on the various websites to tell you how long you've played a game for, like how many hours you've played a game? Yes. Like a game a game like the last of us is maybe like a four or five hour game or a seven or eight hour game depending how quickly you reach what the throw in the snow? Yeah, that's like a seven or eight hour game, maybe That'sic right. I loved watching my kid play that Destiny obviously is not a game like the Lass Os, where you start at the beginning, play throughrough a story and then it ends. It is a live service game, and so you play It's a live service game. It needs that world. otherwise it's not Destiny, right? Yeah. And they release new content, you play it, and you release new content and you play it and goes on and on like that And it's been out for twelve years and I have played a total of, do you want to guess over that you've playing it since twenty fourteen I to guess. Well wait,ait wait before you say it The most important question Because you know how much I love behavioral evidence versus recons. I don't get into it, but you know how I love, tellell me how I behaved instead of how I think I am Let me ask you the question before go I just to say, before you looked at the number that you have you being John, you must have had a, here's what I think it is. Here's what would surprise me if it was more than this. I've been tracking it during the time, so it's not like I just looked at it now at the end. I've always tr. In fact they had a calendar view that would show you. I get that with claud code. It makes me feel bad. Did do like a calendar view where it colors each day depending on how much you played that day. So like a day where you play it a lot is like green and a day where you didn't play at all's just empty white, right? and like range in between what about when you had to kill the roots and get the key? I bet this a pretty dark. It's marathon. differentame Um, So I've looked at the years that I've played Destiny and you can see how it ebb and flow and do I play mostly on weekends or on the weekdays and nights or, you know, I like what an upsetting insight. And you can see when like the expansions come out. It's like the baby Boom It's like herean's baby Boom graph where like an expansion comes out and there's this bright spot where it's like, wow, A that expansion't you can't miss what a pops You play you played like eight hours for three day eight hours a day for three days in a row and that expansion came out, right? it's a living And this is just I know, is this is the number of, if I understand, hours destiny that you have played since fourteen. That's right. this includes both Destiny one and Destiny two combined Wait I thought there was a destiny too There is Yeah. Destiny one went from twenty fourteen to twenty seventeen and Destiny two. That's why it's the to Destiny two. We know from no such thing as a fish not to guess in in a huge number because it ruins the bit How many hours? two thousand two hundred and ten hours That's more than I would have guessed It's approximately nine. I have no idea what to guess I'm not mad. I do find that number pretty high. How did you find that number? It's the most hours I've played any game franchise, easy I'm not great at arithetic, John, but it stries me that's probably something like That's like it wouldn it be Hang on Would that be ninety two days. ninety two days of your life Yeah and to get to compare, I love I'm telling you once you start looking for behavior, everything changes. I just found out that the video of Chris Fleming that I have watched the most I have the numbers. I know nobody cares, That's your problem, not mine I can tell you how many times I've watched or listened to not too soon by throwing muses. I could tell you every single thing I've ever done to interact with Ch Slamming and just This is analogous just in one way The thing of his that I have watched the most is a one hour video on YouTube Now when I say that, you're going to go, okay, you like it It wasn't an episode of Gale It wasn't, hey, Dave, let's clean the house Um wasn't it wasn't the one where he invented the terrible car. It was a one hour video And there's really theres something very illuminating I wantm going to say without val It's very it's very illuminating to be given the numbers on where your attention Isn't it? Isn't it kind of not shocking maybe, but it definitely gives a person a moment to think. And unlike, you know, maybe it's similar in some ways, but maybe unlike watching a show or watching a video or whatever The hours of this is like asking somebody how many hours they've played golf because this's a thing you feel like you're participating in. And often it is social, like you said, network effect where you're playing with friends. I tend to play mostly solo, but you may also be playing with friendss somebody how many hours they were joking around with their friends? Yeah Yeah, that's all that's all yeah that's all shoved into that number. And to compare like the legend of Zelda franchise, like Zelda games, like I played Breath of the Wild and or you know, I've one hundred percented a couple of Zelda games where I've done everything in the game and played the game for like one or two hundred hours One of two hundred hours is nothing compared to two thousand two hundred and ten hours. If you added up all the hours of every Zelda game I. I don't want to be simple about it, but it would not equal that mount. I mean, it's not a part time job It definitely rises to the level of, in my opinion, being a hobby. Yeah I mean, like the number of hours, like if I try to quantify the number of hours, I don't know, something is stupid and trackable that I could do Becauseuse you know, you know about my triangulation. I have twenty two data sources and I'm killing it I could with a few key commands, find out how many hours I haveve spent with three D printing I would not find that. I don't think I would find that very illuminating. Maybe if there were patterns I would looking for over time, but I don't know what the takeaway of that would be apart from just feeling bad about I am. But if you spent that many hours That is officially a hobby It's like it's a lifyle. That's why always described destiny as like a lifestyle. Th life serfice games. if you just played them for like over a decade. people arere people going to lose their minds about this jhn? Just to compare, they have a leaderboard, because of course they do because it's stats, right? and they gather them for everything the top player The number one player who has played the most Destiny Ment. This's the same game. We've all been exposed to the same game. We call him Doug Right. he has played he or she has played forty three thousand now And you had twenty one hundred twenty two hundred. twenty two hundred. So ninety two days versus five years Well, you know, to invoke the great Malcolm Gladwell That seems like the amount of time where you could like get pretty good at something. Yeah, that's one thing annoy me about Destiny. I've playing it for twelve years and I'm not an expert according to the thousand This supp first Ied reference the stupid ten thousand hours to become an expert. Oh, yes.l you know I was doing that to make fun of him. I know, I know, but it does annoy me that you're telling me because because for new listeners, let me say, Hey, you know what? Maybe the Beatles did play ten thousand hours before they get famous But you've met so many people that did something for ten thousand hours and still sucks sot a great metric and it's a really stupid insight. Thank you. And I would say I'm a destiny expert. I've only played two thousand two hundred hours, but give it to me. I'm not hard on yourself. You I'm an expert for sure. I know the things in the game and the stuff. likeike how can I not be?? I've played in all the different sandboxes. This finally got to be a big enough deal that my kid now quotes it back to me As I always say a comparison is the death of Joy Like, why do you need to be like Doug? Now I don't need to be like Doug, but and by the way, it's not like this forty three thousand and then it tails off quickly. No, the next one is like forty two nine nine nine for like People play this game a lot. Can you click click through and learn more about doogg do you think Like like on Amazon, if you see an insane review, like my grandson didn't like this fire extinguishher What does that mean? It's just it's just usernames. You don't really get it. Oh and likeames Marathons is the one where they put all the numbers at the end. Marathon is bunge. They're continuing to make maron. Jesus This is so confusing, John. I'm enjoying Marathon. Hopefully Marathon does not befold the same faith, but no more destiny. Well you're not doing' Tell me about the like if Doug is doing it that much, he might still want to keep playing it. Like if I understand correctly, what you're saying is not only are they not doing, you'd called it Destiny two, but then you said there's already a destiny two. There's not going to be a new destiny. Destiny three is the thing that everyone was waiting for. Hey, why don't you make Destiny three? But more saliently, you're not going to be able to do What is your term Given that it is a live service game are they're going to like do Disney Infinity and just say now you're done now, right? They say they're going to keep the servers running. They're going to the final expansion and they say they're going to keep the servers running. We'll see. Yeah All the way to twenty twenty four. Obviously a greatly diminished number. There'll just be a few people there, turn off the lights when you're done. they know exactly what they're doing. is it fast Marathon right now supporting this. Is it a fast to say that something like Marathon is where their attention will Well, that's a lot of the Destiny people think, o, Marathon killed Destiny because they their attention was split and they paid attention to Marathon and it's like, maybe, but like Destiny was kind of going down the tubes no matter what.ike they really needed to do something. And was that something be Destiny three? L like Yes Maybe, but like it takes like seven years to make a game. so they had to have started it seven years ago. You said something a long time ago that always stuck with me that It was funny but revealing, which is that, you know, you kind of plan out your time on a kind of medium to long span about saying the kinds of games you want to play this year. Whatever the system is and explain it however you want, how will this change the way you plan your video game play? Well, asve as you could have noted from just listening to me on the show already basically left Destiny for Arc Raiders and then left Arc Raiders for Marathon Like that'sc just the beta when you were testing. I've logged into Destiny a total of like since I started playing arc Raters, I've been on Destiny like maybe five or six times. You're the problem. You did that Yeah I'm just I like everyone else. I was leaving for the same reons as everyone else was. I had finished all the stuff that I wanted to do in the Star Wars expansion. I was waiting to see what the next expansion was supposed to be. They delayed the next expansion and instead they released a Marathon, which I was super into. And then, you know I played Arcader or so I was waiting and then Marathon came out and I played Marathon and I'm still playing Marathon as see past episodes. I love Marathon, I hope it doesn't die. I hope Bungie doesn't die because Their main cash cow is dead now and Marathon is, you know, struggling a little bit U Destiny also struggled in its early years, but Marathon is not even one year old yet and I don't know if Marathon is supposed to be a ten year years franchise. I think they just hope Marathon makes it to year two So fingers crossed for Marathon Yeah I mean, my current favorite game and the one I'm currently playing the most. That's some p yeah. So you got past those nasty bbits and got got the right candles and swords or whatever. They're about to do their big reset. Is that right? Oh no,. And now is this that thing where it's like the Rapture where everybody loses their clothes. Y. You lose all your money and all your stuff. All your stuff is gone and all your levels, all your levels back to level one. John, you love yourvel You know what, you don't lose? What Cosmetics foundation and eyeliner or like cool hats for dogs? Cool hats. Okay. Cool skins. Also all this dresses and nice sks your g. When you get two hundred and fif fifty five spots in your vault, you can put all your nightgowns and swords and all the talk five, I wish. Yeah, I know But and then then there'll be they called a drop. And then that's where you go and there's like a taco truck where you can get an enchanted sword. Everybody starts over in June, so I plan the last of I'm trying to burn my stuff now. It's a Jubilee. No kidding. You know what? That's what the or the purge maybe. I don't know, which No. But like you think about what the I mean, a lot of people have done it, but definitely what the Soviets did. You know, when they moved east As the Germans were coming, they would burn their own villages. They call it scorched Eth And you're going to do that with your f your forpple ble is going to be gone. I got the whole vault full awesome stuff. Gess what? Guess what? Everything's gott to go. Everything must go. You know what thingsings need to leave your vault Yeah. they will. They're going to leave them whether I use them or not so but use ' them or lose them That's what I'm In the meantime, RIPD two