Modern Science and Future Testing

Hello, Hello. Welcome to An episode of Shorthand that I really sincerely hope doesn't have a pedo in it But I'm not entirely sure because I am not a recicardian. I hold my hands up. Richard III is not my area of expertise. Nor mine. D defeinitely some dead or at least missing kids I don't if anyone touched I would say they're dead now, almost certainly. Oh yes. For sure Cut down in their youth, possibly Let's find out Are they still in the tower I didn't even know those possibilities. Find that's where the Which tower did you think they're in It's called the princes in the Tower. Yeah, but I thought they vanished from I think that's still in there. Okay, let's talk about it In the summer of fourteen eighty three, two young royal brothers went into the Tower of London And we're never officially seen again Legend has it that they were callously murdered by their uncle the dustardly Richard I Thd who sawred his own family tree Ccure his spot on the throne But some historians believe a very different story that the princes survived and even went on to challenge the Tudor rule that followed their uncle's brief and ininglorious reign Was King Richard III really the mouache twirling villain History and Shakespeare painted him to be And with the discovery, Suspicious boy shaped bones years later Could modern science give us the answers historians have been seeking for centuries? Blood soaked battlefield of the War of the Roses The truth is never as clear cut as it might seem This is the mysterious and medieval Sorthand The Tale of the Princes in the Tower is one of the biggest he said she said mysteries in English history So we're going to start with what we know for short. We've all heard about the War of the Roses a decade long beef between the noble houses of York and Lancaster. Loads of people died, it went on for fucking ages If you've seen Game of Thrones, you basically get the picture Our story starts nearish to the end of this tumultuous period in fourteen sixty one First ever Yorkus King Edward the Fth rose to the throne after deposing Henry theI And the house of York was absolutely buzzing to finally have a go at the Rins And Edward IV was taking no chances when it came to securing his royal legacy He married and had ten kids with a woman called Elizabeth Woodfell. Most of the Yorkist elites weren't exactly big fans of Elizabeth Since she was a Lancastrian widow whose family were seen as shameless social climbers who'd switched sides just to get ahead and It wouldn't actually be the last time they did this, but we'll get to that later Elizabeth gave Edward IV two surviving male heirs Princes, Edward and Richard In medieval times, there are only about five names that you can give anybody And also you're considered an adult once you turn fourteen. And I actually did watch The series The White Queen Be I everyone knows love the tuters The white quQueen is like a TV series it's on channel for now out here in the UK starring Rebecca Ferguson from June. as Elizabeth Woodfillell it's very good. Okay, it's not actually accurate. but it is very fun. Bice ripping kind of way. I've just got to the point now where I'm like, wereere you there? No you weren't, you't know Historyies written by Pederhiles. and also Philippa Gregory who writes all of the bodice ripping She basically takes and look, I'm not taking away forat, Philipp Gregory is not a historian. Philipp Gregory is a woman who is a very good novelist And she basically takes like the loose plot of like an Anne Boleyn or an Elizabeth Woodville character And then she writes very saucy Novels based on it and then they get turned into TV stories And then everyone thinks it really happened. And then everyone thinks that's what actually happened And look I was the white quueen, it's very compelling There's lots of mistakes in it. But Philippa Gregory, I assume isn't pretending she is a historian. She is like a'm an novelist. But she's also like, yum yum, yum, channel four money. And Ch channel four are like yum, yum yum viewers. I mean, that's why they have to put dragons in the Game of Thrones. so people are like, oh, not actually something that happened Also You were considered an adult once you were fourteen in the olden times, medieval times because of the That's when you become an adult, That's when you confirmed when you're fourteen k thirteen, fourteen So rather inc cononveniently for everyone involved, Edward The fourth unexpectedly popped his clogs after a short illness in april fourteen eighty three When his heir, Edward was only twelve Facing his kingly duties a few years earlier than planned, the future Edward V was going to need wise advisors around him to steady the ship. It's not like they turn fourteen and then they have no advisors by the way. No, it's not really that different to what would have happened two years later In the notoriously dog eat dog world of medieval politics, finding people who were selflessly interested in looking out for a small boy, with not political motivation of their own, a small boy who's going to be King of England, sure, sure sure. In his will The late king named his younger brother Richard, then the Duke of Glasgow. as Lord Protectorate to help his son rule when the time came Something his mum's side of the family, the woodfields, weren't ecstatic about Little Edward had been raised in a drafty Staffordshire castle under the tutelage of his maternal uncle, Anthony Woodfill, who would become pretty much his only father figure Now Edward was being sized up for the top job. Anthony Woodfill was keen to stay by his side Together with the Royal cououncil, the Woodville scrambled to find a way to prevent Richard from being the only one in charge of Edward. posossibly because they didn't approve of the idea one person having so much power And also probably because they wanted a slice of that pie for themselves After ruling that Richard should not be Edward's only advisor, the council penciled in a hasty coronation date the fourth of May to secure his proper ascension But when he heard the rumours of people trying to muscle in on his protection of little Eddie from his castle in York, Richard was not having it On the twenty fourth of april, Edward began traveling down to London with his uncle Athony only for Richard to intercept them in Buckinghamship. with an army of six thousand men The soon to be king spent anxious night staying at a pub's lodgings. while the Con ops negotiated terms Where we sayay negotiated, the very next day Richard had Anthony Woodwill locked up and later ordered his execution. As with many things in this story, a lot of it comes down to a matter of opinion Either Richard genuinely had Edward's best interests at heart and was suspicious of the scheming woodwills trying to pull the strings from behind the curtain or he himself had more sinister motives for wanting Edward under his thumb Or perhaps both Either way, Richard took over his protectorate duties and escorted likely traumatized Edward the rest of the way to the capitol and straight to the Tower of London Maybe you are thinking the infamous bloody Tower home of countless imprisonments and execution. surely Edward's alarm bells would be ringing by now. Well, actually no not really, because back then The toower was like a little mini town with shops, fifteen pubs, a royal arrmoury, a menagerie, and a grand royal palace And also say the prison Most castles have dungeons. Yeah. If you want to. Where are you gonna put them It was actually customary for future royals to spend their pre coronation period in the tower. while an oblivious young Edward might not have felt anything amiss Tension was heating up between his warring rivals His mum Elizabeth grew so fearful brother in law that she took the rest of her kids, including nine year old Richard into a sanctuary. Westminster Abbey Assuring Elizabeth that he was definitely going to get Edward crowned, the older Richard eventually managed to coax her into letting him take little Richard. As I said, there's only four names. to join his brother in the toower. And that would turn out to be her biggest mistake. That summer. A fourteen eighty three Richard kept pushing back, Edward's coronation date During this time, a visiting Italian scholar named Dominic Mantini repeported on how witnesses saw Edward playing with his little brother in the Tower grounds hoping to squeeze out one last drop of childhood putting on that heavy crown but his uncle Richard apparently had other plans onn the twenty second of June, a man named Reverend Shaw sppoke as simple as cross a famous open air preaching spot. and quickly dropped a juy bit of gossip to the crowd The late King Edward IV had allegedly been legally contracted to another wife When he married Elizabeth Woodville In other words, his bigigamous relationship was therefore null and void And they' ten kids bards, the lot of them includcluding prrinces in the toower This changed everything This is a paid advertisent for Bter Help Some people love summer School's out, sun is shining and adventures the name of the game There is the other side of the season sweaty commutes, lifeve admin, the social pressure of feeling like you have to make the most of the longer days Summer becomes less about thriving and more about surviving. And I am in that second camp If you're a summer stressor too, then therapy is a great way to find balance. With over thirty thousand therapists worldwide, Betterhelp is one of the leading online therapy platforms having served over six million people globally And it work withith an average rating of four point nine out of five for a live session based on over one point seven million client reviews can help people better understand their needs, feel more confident setting boundaries and create a version of summer that actually feels good. You don't have to say yes to everything this summer find support and therapy Sign up and get ten percent off at betterterhp. com slash reed handanded. That's better H E lp d. com slash red handed And we will give you three whole guesses to where that particular rumor came from Surprise surprise with his nephews conveniently booted out of the queue Grown up, Richard was next in line for the Yorkist throne And he was certainly wasting no time in taking it On the sixth of july fourteen eighty three, the former Duke of Gloucester was officially crowned King Richard III with a lavish coronation Westminster Abbey you would be pissed if you were Elizabeth Woodfille,n't you? You'd be like, You've done your job to the fucking max. Like your job at the time as a queen, or as like a royal lady G get married, have kids. Pop as many kids as you can. Just ten fucking kids And then you're like N Fast its Oh my God, you'd be raging As for the newly illegitimate princes They stayed in the tower At least at first Mancini wrote that they were withdrawn into the inner apartments of the Tower proper, and day by day began to be seen more rarely behind the bars and windows until At length they cease to appear altogether By the autumn of fourteen eighty three, both brothers had vanished And to this day Nobody can state with any certainty What happened to them? Still Two major theories prevail amongst historians The first and I have to say, most widely believed theory is that the boys were killed in the tower with their murders most likely ordered by King Richard III himself does make sense You always have to look in a murder mystery, Wh has the most again, right And if Richard was ambitious enough to jump ahead in the line of succession Why would he risk leaving two little brats alive to challenge that position That's just very inconvenient Most accounts of Richard paint him as an ambitious, bloodthirsty and unscrupulous leader. who basically killed anyone who stood in his way He In this respect, he honestly wasn't all that different from other kings at the time Be in medieval England, ambition and violence went hand in bloody hand But even if he did swing the axe at his own nephews in pursuit of power That wasn't actually enough for Richard to secure total control. His ill gotten reign was brief and bloody, ending just two years later with his death at the Battle of Bosworth in fourteen eighty five, My Kingdom for a horse is that one Henry Tudor took the throne as King Henry III And united the Houses of York and Lancaster by marrying Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville's daughter Elabeth of York. And that is why the Tudor Rose is read underite And ironically enough, since he couldn't mry a bastard, Henry VII had to undo the proclamation his predecessor Richard had made and declare all of those woodfield kids legitimate after all, all you So while he'd finally brought an end to the blloody War of the Roses He actually risked leaving the door wide open to a future challenge from his new bride's brothers They were still alive, that is Whilst Henry allegedly searched Richard III's properties and the Tower of London looking for the princes, justust to make extra sure they weren't still hanging around and had just been missed somewhere It stands to reason that even if they were still around after Richard IId died that wouldn't have managed to stay that way for very long, I don't think. And you must have some knowledge that they are no longer around to do what he did and declare them all legitimate again. quite. Logic and assumption aside, let's look at the anecdotal evidence for this theory The biggest source comes from Thomas Moore court figure who famously served as Henry VI's Lord Chancellor a few decades later or at least until Henry had his pusle head chopped off in fifteen thirty five when he refused to accept him as the new suupreme Head of the Church of England While Mor was just a child himself when the princes in the Tower vanished Oon Richard III seemed to imply insider knowledge to what went down Writing in the fifteen tenens more described how a Yorkist knight, named Sir James Tyrell, was executed in fifteen oh two for another crime. but confessed before his death to the role he'd played in the younger prrince's death As one of Richard III's most loyal knights Tyrell claimed that Richard himself had ordered him to personally make sure his nephews did not live to see adulthood. Tyreo hired assassins, Miles Forrest and John Dighton. to do his dirty work And these men into the boys' bedchamber in the tower and smothered them in their beds The account is incredibly detailed and chilling describing how the hitman suddenly lpped them up among the bedclothes, so bewrapped them and entangled keeping them down by force the feather bed and pillows hard onto their mouths until their breath failing They gave up to God, their innocent souls into the joy of heaven Now we have to say, obviously, Richard was in charge of Edward's security as his Lord prrotectorate So it's incredibly unlikely that anyone else got into the boys inner chambers without Richard knowing about it or, as the case may well have been without him ordering it himself So if the boys were killed in the tower. It's almost certain that Richard was behind it Moore's account gave lurid details to what had been widely whispered about for decades And in the following years it basically became gospel William Shakespeare used more as his main source to write Richard III in the fifteen nineties depicting the Yorkist King as a tyrannical villain definitely absolutely totally killed his nephews. Bottled spider But Historians Have questioned Mooore's reliability as a non contemporary source who had his own loyalties to the Tudor courts that followed Richard's brief reign. In twenty twenty four, Professor Tim Thornton from the University of Huddersfield uncovered genuine evidence to back up his claims Thomas Moore was found to be in close contact with the sons of the alleged assassins And legacy documents indicate that a gold chain belonging to the doomed Prince Edward was passed down through the family of Sir James Tyrell And as more's sources came to life started to look a lot more credible But long before that, another discovery also seemed to support Moore's version of events. In sixteen seventy four, nearly two hundred years after the princes vanished Workmen excavating, the tower found a box containing two sets of children's bones at the foot of an old suitcase S you right Hu And this box was found in the exact spot where Thomas Moo claimed boys were buried Now more did also say their remains were later moved to a quote, better place But still, the coincidence was enough to make people pretty bloody excited. Interesting that nobody checked that exact spot in two hundred years, though, isn't it? Just have a look Why not have a look? There's quite a lot going on there to be fair And we also have to say that king at the time, Charles II obviously thought the bones were the real deal He had them interred with full pomp and ceremony in Westminster Abbe The bones remained untouched for over another two hundred years until in nineteen thirty three, King George V gave his permission to have them tested using cutting edge new technology. The scientists found the ages of the victims to roughly fit a twelve and nine year old pointed out evidence indicating suffocation. How the fuck they got that from some fucking six hundred year old bones I C I cannot. I cannot. How could you know that Thus, Tuma I mean I'm going to give them any benefit of the doubt at all. it's like, okay, there's force applied to the face, is there some sort of kid that they can indicate there was like some sort of, you know suuffocation type, death mebe that's a stretch The nineteen thirty three report has been widely criticised for falling victim to confirmation bias. The researchers just assumed the bones belonged to the princes They didn't really examine them that much at all The report even called the skeletons Edward and Richard from the second page onwards and quoted Shakespeare as the reason to believe that they were who Shakespeare. quote more, at least. He's not even contemporaneous, but at least he is closer to where it actually happened than fucking Shakespeare. Everyone had died in World War one. they were working with not very many people This is a paid advertisement for betterter Help. Some people love summer School's out, sun is shining and adventures the name of the game There is the other side of the season sweaty commutes, lifeve admin, the social pressure of feeling like you have to make the most of the longer days Summer becomes less about thriving and more about surviving. And I am in that second camp If you're a summer stressor too, then therapy is a great way to find balance. With over thirty thousand therapists worldwide, Betterhelp is one of the leading online therapy platforms having served over six million people globally And it work withith an average rating of four point nine out of five for a live session based on over one point seven million client reviews can help people better understand their needs, feel more confident setting boundaries and create a version of summer that actually feels good. You don't have to say yes to everything this summer find support and therapy Sign up and get ten percent off at betterterhp. com slash reed handanded. That's better H E lp d. com slash red handed There wasn't even testing available back then to verify gender of said bones And obviously it's nineteen thirty three, they couldn't do DNA testing or carbon dating, so it's all just fucking nonsenseical. Anyway, the report left more questions than answers We still can't conclusively say that the bones at Westminster Abbey are in fact the missing princess, although I have questions about a lot of bones in Westminster Abbey actually being who are they're supposed to be? And I was gonna say like what testing to tell the sex of the bodies? but I guess like if they were thirteen or nine, you could say like they're prepubescent probably so maybe they more difficult to tell. Differeiated enough at that point. ye. All right, fine. I'll allow it So let's come on now to our second major theory Boys didn't die in the tower all They survived Or at least that's what amateur researcher, Philippa Gregory know. Philippa Langley will tell you Does the name ring a bell Langley was famously the woman who to Hunt Ll that Richard III's remains were lurking under a car park in Leicester. turned out to be true and they were indeed found there in twenty twelve Who is this woman Who is this woman? I'll tell you. They even made a film with Sally Hawkings playing her role It's called the Lost King and actually it ran into quite a lot of legal trouble of its own. And they were successfully sued by by academics at the University of Leicester. who objected to their portrayal in the film. Fuckking out I can't take a joke, Jesus. But doesn't How bad could it have been I haven't watched it but Iume maybe it's along the lines of like Nobody believes Philppa Langley, and they're like, you crazy old witch and they're like We believed her. We were fucking d. I reckon it's like they've made them look like they just well, like, you know, telling it to fuck off. I don't know If you've watched it, that's know because I'm never going to watch that. As a proud recardian, historians dedicated to redeeming old Dick's spotted legacy and proving he wasn't such a bad guy after all Langley launched a huge research mission called The Missing Princess Project The project's sole aim was to prove that the commonly held story of big bad uncle Richard Killing his nephews in the tower was really just t to propaganda designed to smear the last Yoist King. perfect example of history being written by the Victors And rather than killing the boys, Richard was nice enough to let them go The major sources supporting this theory are tied to two famous pretenders, to the Crown in fourteen seventy four and fourteen ninety four respectively Lambert Simol and Perkin Warbt. While conventional wisdom says that they were just imposters posing as the lost prince is. Langley reckons that they were in fact the real McCoy. back for another go at getting their disinherited mums on the English throne. In fourteen eighty seven, just a few short years after the prrinces vanished, a coronation was held at a church in Dublin, Ireland for a lad who was going around calling himself Edward V Fth Now, sixteen and ready to rule, he'd made friends in high places across Europe, including the Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian and his wife, Margaret of Burgundy And this was a bigiggie because Margaret was the sister ood and Richard of York making her his aunt Auntie and Uncle were clearly on board with Edward's bid to reclaim his lost kingdom. Langley's team found an accounting receipt where Maximilian ordered four hundred long pikes for an invasion, naming a son of King Edward, who was expelled from his dominion Lany makes a lot of the fact that Margaret of Burgundy appeared to publicly recognize and acknowledge this person as her nephew. Let's just think about that for a second Margaret famously dested King Henry VIh the man who took her late brother's crown. Historian, Dr. Elizabeth Norton describes her as the last remaining Yorkist in an independent and prominent position, who would absolutely work towards U upping him So the fact that she gave money and military support to a guy who said he was her nephew doesn't necessarily mean she believed him. She just kind of wanted everyone to think that's who he was. So she could be like, that's the real reason I'm doing it justustice and equality I do think though As I said, I am not a recordian Had he lived to reign longer than two years He would have had time to write his own story rather than having it written for him and possibly would be remembered more fondly But he didn't so we don't Now So whoever this guy was who was saying he was Edward the fif The so called king stormed into battle against Henry VII's forces at the Battle of Stoke in june fourteen eighty seven It would become known as the last ever Battle of the War of the Roses. And once again The Yrchists lost miserably. as a disorganized hodgepodge of paid European mercenaries utterly trrouanced by the Tudor defenders and left like arrow pricked hedgeogs in the dirt The story from there goes that the guy claiming to be Edward was unmasked as a ten year old commoner called Land Simol After his capture, Henry VII sent him to work in the royal kitchens as punishment. Don't send him into the palace That seems like a real rookie arrow. Yeah But according to Langley, this was just a bit of fiction According to the Missing Princess proroject, Henry VII tried neutralize what had actually been a very legitimate threat by brushing it off as a tween aage poser The real Edward the Fth most likely died at the Battle of Stkes and the Tudor King covered up just how close a call it had been to protect his shaky rule And I guess it sends this message right of like I don't even need to execute you You are such a prettender to the throne I can put you in my own kitchens Pasant you are. And history would repeat itself in fourteen ninety four when Richard came back on the scene Now twenty He went around royal European houses trying to raise cash to build an army Once again, calling on Aunt Margaret and her husband, Maximilian in France Maximilian's courourt supposedly judged Richard to be Legit, after verifying several marks on his body His eye mouth and thigh. And apparently only the youngest princes have those in the whole world. In fourteen ninety five This Richard and his army of paid soldiers launched an invasion on England by boat. When it failed, he fled to Scotland and took refuge with King James IV Sheilled there for a bit, got married And just kicked about until Henry VII's spies captured him and marched him down to London in fourteen ninety seven. Henry had him sign a pre prepared confession that revealed his true identity was just some guy. Perkin Wilbeck, the son of a boatman from Fllanders In exchange for the confession, The so called traiter got off quite lightly He wasn't locked up, he was allowed to live with his wife and had his own tailor and horse Apparently Henry didn't want to piss off his European neighbourors who were convinced that if he killed this guy, He would be killing his own brother in law We're not sure whether Elizabeth recognized her long lost little brother But in the eyes of those at court, this was a certified imposter who had luckily escaped with his life until he got caught trying to escape London A few months later, presumably on the horse they gave him And this time, Henry wasn't feeling quite so charitable And the man known as Perkin Warbeck. was ironically held at the Tower of London brutally tortured and executed by hanging in fourteen ninety nine. And from there, the mystery of the princes in the toower became ancient history Researchers battled around more half bait theories potential plot by Richard's friend turned enemy, the Duke of Buckinghamshire Nothing really stuck. Until twenty twelve when Richard III's bones were dug up from a Leicester City cououncil car park and blew this extremely cold case wide open O course it wasn't just an exciting day for the council staff who presumably got the afternoon off work It also gave historians a full genetic profile should be used to identify the bones attributed to his nephews