Looking Ahead to Batman Begins

Thank you for listening to Redhirt Cinema Club. For access to two bonus episodes every month as well as our newsletter, The Civilian Observer, you can support us at patreon. com forward toash Redhirt Cinema Club He Greg Richard, it is hot outside and now it's time to cool down. At PC Richard and Son, we have the largest selection of air conditioners all at the guaranteed lowest prices. Come see our knowledgeable salespeople to help get you the right air conditioner today ACAS powers the world's best podcasts Here's a show that we recommend I'm Monica Regel, nutritionist, author, and host of the Nutrition Diva podcast We dig into the questions that you're actually asking, if it's okay to drink coffee on an empty stomach, whether it's possible to retrain your sweet tooth, which ultra processed foods you might actually want to include in your diet We take a closer look at diet trends. Fact check sketchy claims and track down the science so that you can feel more confident about what's on your plate New episodes are released every Wednesday Find Nutrition diva on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening, and be sure to follow or subscribe so you don't miss a single episode ACast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere AcS. com Hello and welcome to Red Shirt Cinema Club a podcast about fandom and watching movies with friends. And today that film is Insomnia, Christopher Nolan's two thousand two thriller, starring Al Pcino, Robin Williams and Hilary Swank. Aside from the star studded cast, perhaps the most interesting thing about Insomnia is that it's the movie Nolan made after Memento And before Batman begins the other interesting things we're about to discuss now. Enjoy. brought him in to solve an unspeakable crime. Detective Dormer, it' such an honor to meet you. I'm Detective Ellie Burr. Welcome to Nightmute It's so incredible to be working with you. The Eland Street Murders was my case study at the Academy Ifomeone out there just be a seventeen year old girl to death, your job is to find him doesn't say in the report that he clipped her nails here No mutilation. Not this time. He tortures him, makes him do things, and keeps him there for three days. This guy crossed the line and he didn't even blink What Detective Dormer doesn't know is that murder is only part of the plan Come here It chang is you. It's like awareness. Who am I speaking to sleep will? He will taunt you T share a secret We know how easy it is to kill somebody. It will torment you. It canan't be easy after three days of no sleep. Are you seen things yet? No those little tricks al light. He will get inside your head. There's a ferry about five miles hth the nightmute. I'll beyond eleven o'clock I have great respect for your profession. The situation isn't yours to control, Will Are trying to impress me, Fitch you had the wrong d.. I took you ten minutes to beat Kate Connell to death. There's no evidence that I killed Kate. You only know it becausecause I told you. Are you doing okay? I mean, you haven't been sleeping much, Detective Dormmer a night like this and you're really gonna lose it. Now the game has turned deadlier than he ever imagined. This whole thing you're doing. You gonna work with me. see things. Don't wor it well sleep when you're dead Hello and welcome to Redshirt Cinema Club. I am your host, Rob Pearson. We are joined today by Nathan Ditam. Hello and David Jackson. Hello, We're back. We're back with more Christopher Nolan in the form of two thousand two's insomnia starring Al Pcino and Robin Williams in in a role that is Strange for Robin Williams, strrange one this. Not like any of his other roles. Ver so much different to Aladdin when he played the G misses Doubtfire. I think one hour photo he plays similarly. He's moreor in that isn't he? Isz he? No. I mean, I haven't seen a phrases As I said last sum, I can remember as this one shot where his eyes explode into ood of blood' horrible. But I've not seen that. In one hour photo, I believe that he is a man who works at a photo processing oth and from another time sessed with a family through their photos. Amazing. sounds great. Yeah. But insomnia, Quite a straight up film, I think, for Nolan, just a detective. Portino murder solving twwin Paks esque ama Had either of you seen this before? This is the first time I'd seen this film. I'd seen it. I saw it last year. I didn't realise that it was Christopher Nolan when I was watching it. obviously didn't read the credits And I watched it because it was a thriller starring Al Pcino and chiefly Robin Williams that I'd not heard of. And I was like, what A thriller with Robin Williams. I really want to watch that and so I did which I regretted a little bit now watching it. a year later It was still too fresh in my mind to S that d a call, isn't it? Yeah The podcast brings up this problem where if I've not seen anything for five years, something for five yearses. right I'm excited about watching it.. If I've seen it yeah last year Becauseuse it iss fun to put it in context of everything else that we're doing this far. It is very much so. Yeahah. I'm sort of looking forward to doing that. What about you Nath have you seen it before? I only saw it the one time previously, which was when it was released in the cinemas And I was twenty Or twenty one years old and Mmentento on DVD. So I was probably the exact audience for this. Wow. So you're like, o, it's that guy. Yeah, this' guy Is it crazy to say that it just feels weird to even imagine a film like this in the cinema U Grilla still in the cinema? Oh. You know, like obviously they were. Like I remember my momum going to see seven when I was about seven Yeah. And u And I really love that film. I've mentioned it before, but like you just I don't feel like you get movies like thrillers in there cinema anymore. I'm trying to prove you wrong with my thoughts. Please do. but it is difficult. I don't go to the cinema anywhere near as much as I'd like or should, but I just feel like that I dont offers you off as much as I should li. I think thrillers still exist It's just that they in my head they're like, you know, just owned by streamers and often I do think that It's probably one of the things which thinned out a a little bit. Yeah. I felt like they were huge for quite a long period. I think also post seven, there was it and this actually felt more post seven. than I remembered it because I always think of haaving just watched Mmento and really having in my head had this conception of that film, which I've revisited a couple of times, but not loads as pretty of its time, like quite clever, like formally distinctive but in a way which feels quite kind of nineties indie, but then going, oh actually this is really in line with everything that Nolan's done since and I actually enjoyed it more U And I think this I always had in my head is I want to return to because I think there's loads of in terms of the play of like constant day and u the kind of disintegration of that cxrual character, thinking, o, there's loads of nolan in this and then watching it going o, that's actually pretty generically post seven. The word I've been looking forward to saying is unremarkable I found this movie to be just very unremarkable. I enjoyed it but It's interesting and actually yeah, with the context of meento, like it sort of clangs even harder because I was spouting about how remarkable I found meento to be Yeah. And this is just like feels like veryied by the numbers Yeah there's some, you know, there's some interesting ideas in terms of like if you just saw them on paper, like a You know, being in a place where the sun never sets and and the detective can't sleep I can see how that might be quite interesting. And I can imagine how a Christopher Nolan film might make that really interesting. and in fact in reality didn't happen so much for me. I don't think that Al Pacino was very good in this one. That was my chief takeaway He certainly like feels like him being Al Pacino is doing some of is hoping to do some of the work. Well do you know that well there's an interesting thing about that separately, but I just I just felt like as soon as he came in And I guess they were he was just sleepy from the plane. It was like the one note they had all the way through the film I mean you're going to be really tired in this film now. He's like, o, I got it. And then he's just like his eyes are opening in every scene. likeike Pantomime though. He seemed like drunk in some. I guess he's not been asleep for four or five days by the end, but Yeah, it was a little bit much for me B the end I felt well there was no, I think it demanded some subtlety in Sometimes it was it was lacking. Yes, I agree Did you say you hadn't seen this before? I' not seen it before. No. And I agree with you basasically everything that's been said. I thought it was strangely straight laced Yeah for a Nolan film. and having I was aware of the premise and I was expecting some kind of clelever. I mean, the whole sort of like It should have been a twist. should have been more of a twist. L we know he shoots his partner. We see it happening. Yeah. but I felt like We should have not known that till the end And Robyin Williams should have been like, o, I saw you shot shoot your partner. And we as the audience should be No, he didn't. didn't shoot part. You shot his partner.. And then slowly the truth is revealed andre like, holy shit, he did shoot his partner. Oh Well a way better movie you've just f. that wasn't a thing that was a mystery to us because it felt like it should have been. It's the massive inciting incident that happens what twenty thir minutes into the film. Yeah And the whole insomnia thing didn't really have much of a bearing on the film other than like you said, Nathith Alptunino is just tired throughout the film, which made me think it almost felt like Alptino was like, yeah, I'll do it, but I'm just, you know just I'm a bit tired at the moment. Can we just write something in there where my cid is tired all the time? And he has a couple of Alptino bits, doesn't he where he's like, you can't fuck around with me, I know what I'm doing. And those are like, yeah G on Alcacino. Butpart from that he is just walking around wearing a leather coat being a bit gravelly. Yeah. I agree. I also I remember from my first watch that I was a bit disappointed that There really isn't much mystery about done it or or why or anything like that. That's all revealed very quickly. and I accept The idea of the movie is Not that. it's not a who doneun it. It's like will will Al Pacino do the right thing, I suppose. He's got this unusually they've contrived this weird situation where could work together with a murderer to save his own skin And also keep bad guys behind bars. That's the, you know, the quandary is like this real bed It's like a trolley problem, but yeah exactly theA' off. But I was I was hop and this is more about me, but just I was looking forward to a good old fashioned like figuring out who who done it. even though it was pretty obvious to us the audience it was going to be Robin Williams once she wasn't in the film for the first twenty minutes. You know, I really enjoyed the first That set up. I enjoyed just the kind of fabric of the film is enjoyable I enjoyed Alortino with his partner whose name I will Now It is a sort of comfy pair of shoes in terms of M like a movie setup though, isn't it? You know, it's like, again, it's by it's by the numbers, disgrace yeah, a young upcoming rookie cop who looks up to the the guy and he's got that moral weight on his shoulders of like she's just a good cop because she finds out that I'm a bad guy. derail the whole thing. Well his partner I think is a is Martin Donovan, who and I Great casting in as much as I've definitely seen him in loads of stuff. Yeah I can't remember any of the sky from other films. And I like his face, but sometimes his face can be a bit sinister Yeah. But normally I like his face. It reminded me talking about sort of generics. Um It reminded me quite a lot of twin peeaks, just even the building, even the shheriff's building was quite a lot like twwin Peaks, but just the idea of going somewhere slightly remote and them having a slightly slower pace of life Um, And I think even the crime is very t in peaks single girl who has been mixed up in trouble and they talk, you know, there's a boyfriend. There's a best friend. Let's talk to them. They know more than they think. There's a seective from outside of town. Diaries and Yeah books and you know, notes left and gifts from Yes people. So I was sort of enjoying that. I do think the Al Puccino U of it all is what kind of tilts things because I guess because I'd seen it a long time ago, I wasn't really expecting the same things as maybe you both were when you watched it more recently in terms of I want an alcino film with certain expectations. I also wasn't particularly satisfied. There is like a hitchcockian thing in I watched last year I rewatched u Is strangers on a train? I think it is where it's basically there's a slightly unusual man, although it's the fifties, so he's basically gay, but's like he's murderous and it comes along with his gainus who lives with his mother and he meets a tennis star on the train and basically says, they've got one murder they'd like to do each kind of. and they sort of but the tennis guy doesn't actually want the murder done. kind of and they're in this kind of quite a folly do, but it's like the idea that they're sort of intrinsically linked and the guy this one guy just goes ahead and does the murder and then he's saying, you got to you got to do my mur. Yeah. said I don't I don't want to do your murd. I said, Well, I'll make it look awful and he won't go away. And there's that kind of relationship between Alctino and Robin Williams. I didn't find it satisfying at all. I think what wass supposed to click into place is this sense of because it's all about I think the idea of staying awake even is It's about good and bad, right? And when does a good action become a bad action? when does doing something for the I think what disappointed me was at one point Al Pacino is on the bed Talking to Mauraeri, is it from ER? is you from me Andie I think of her as the mum from Lyela. Yeah ye. Lya yeah That's a five year age difference. And I think He says The end just defies the means and I was like, you can't just say you're attacking the subtext with a cricket bat. What's happening? the idea that you see him get into a situation which which stretches his goodness them There was so much of this film where I was like, you're simply working with Robin Williams. Yeah. And I don't really I'm not really convinced as to why That' a bit where yeah, because that's is it because you're tired? wantant to for it to be revealed, he was actually always only pretending to go along with it. Yeah that never happens. At some points he is just going along with it. and then he has like a crisis of conscience later where he goes, No, I should I shouldn't do this.' sort of mad Robin whenin his characed overplays his hand in the interview room and like he's sort of not doing the crime the way that they had talked about doing it. And that's almost where he's like, how are you gonna fuck this up? So Yeah, I think Alcacino gives him actually good advice there. L they need to they need to come to their own conclusion if you just tell them then.' and that's like making a film. You can't don't tell me about the subtext. let me very true. Bring the subtext here So all of this, I thought. was true, hadn't really enjoyed it, didn't really think Alppucino was working. And then I read One thing that Christopher Nolan U said about the film and it changed the way I thought about it, but ultimately not the fact I hadn't enjoyed it very much whichich was it's a remake of a ickon is it Swedish or a Scandavian film anyway? where also like similar vibes, right? sun all the time But in that film all the time. that was the working title of That was the that's what it was released in Sweden has Oh okay. No Ice not. And and sun all the time There was no al Pacino or similar stars. So it's much more Oh I see what you mean. It's much more obvious, not his character. There's not a big star playing that And what Chris Fina said was in he deliberately kind of set out to make it different. He said in the original film It starts off with a hero and the audience gradually moves away from him morally and then there's a distance between you and the protagonist They said in my film because I have Al Puccino, what I'm doing instead is I am experimenting with the fact that the journey and the plot is the same, but the audience stays with Albercino because they expect to like him. and that's a different experience and that's what I'm doing on purpose And I thought that is what happens in this film. And actually it's what I didn't enjoy about it But I can but the fact it was deliberate and the fact that therigin and it was doing something different from the original film, I thought. That is at least Compelling Yeah in some way still doesn't work I think that one of the big problems I have with the movie is that the bothoth the endless day and the insomnia as Rob mentioned, the tiredness just doesn't seem to Apart from him just being more tired and finding it more difficult to concentrate or make decisions. It feels like it plays no part in in anything. And I I think you're at some point it's meant to be his again, his conscience keeping him awake But they like, but That is kind of at odds with just the fact that it is constantly daytime and he seems to be struggling with that too. I thought that it again, it's It almost works. If I think about it, I can make it work. Yeah. cononstant brightness is like, you know, in terms of like a moral thing. and like the symbolism is of a spotlight being shown on, you know, there's nowhere to hide. There's no shadow. There's no moral space here. And in that glare, yeah, he can't sleep and he's struggling. And then I enjoy there's two scenes I really enjoy In this like I said performance which I wearry shoots a deead dog. No Although I did kind of beor dog. Yeahahah. Well, do the dog's deadd we wise we have to see its face. It's just me at that smoking dog corpse Yeah. So are the seens you enjoy of course oozing doll. The two scenes I enjoyed were the kind of reveal of the fact that it's probably not the light keeping him awake when ney comes into the room and says Yeah Dark in it. Right. What are you talking about Yeah but also in the Um in the scene at the very end when he goes to rescue Hillary Swank and she confronts him about shooting how. And he says, I don't know And it's just kind of got to the point where He was so sure at one point and I think as an audience, the way that that original sequence is shot in the fog. It's very clear that he's not trying to shoot his friend But then because he has a motive to, eventually he's not sure And the scene of his friend of how being terrified of him. Yeah. also er quite effective and brilliant. This for half hour, I was like I'm really enjoying this film. And it drifts somewhere in the middle in the relationship with Robberin Williams just doesn't feel I didn't think that the Constant day lightight was Good. thing for this movie Um I guess I guess you need to set it here Partly to have this big city cop in a small town setting and partly to have this other reason for the insomnia so it's not I was just sort of the hot fuzz line Yeah the hot fuzz line. I will say it. You want to be a big time cop in a small town? Fuck off down the model Village.ry. That that's again, the working time for this one. Yeah, fuck off down the model Village U . I thought, yeah you need this constant daylight for there to be another reason why he's got could have insomnia. so it's not quite so clear cut of whether he's wrestling with his conscience, but I found it just confusing or rather like I feel like there are scenes where you need to know what time of day it is and there is nothing to tell you that apart from No he's out at night doing his dastardly deeds, like going to shoot the dead dead dog and it's like completely daylight but no one's around and it looks so weird because he's like sneaking about but it's full bright daylight. and I just think we need to just know. Well the thing is I agree with you, generically, you know what I mean? in terms of this sort of film, you are correct. then When you say it out loud, I'm like, but yeah, that's interesting. That makes the film. I did not enjoy that in the film. But when you say it out loud intellectually, that's quite interesting. It's interesting, yes, but I don't think it works. And like I said that you don't I only want to see dead dogs shot in the dark. It's not that the dog needs to be shot in the dark I didn't realize that I do need a sort of a sense of time in a movie and the day night cycle is a good way of doing that. It tells me it cost when time has moved on and we rely on, you know, that kind of thing. It's tr But then I think the film is kind of ahead of us there because There is that scene where he says let's go and talk to the boyfriend? is he in school and they're like's'clock night. Yeahah. I enjoyed that line and also thought it was ridiculous because like How does he how could he don't always t it? spt on the plane be twelve hour. There's a trailer bit there. because they say it's ten o'clock. And he's like, Yeah Bum, bom bum bom bom. What would you do Shoot a dog. I think that made me sad was that Robin Williams just wasn't he just wasn't evil or clever enough He's not in the film for like an hour and then he phones Albertino and you're like, o here we go Robin Williams is going to be some awful deranged psychopath who's really going to play with Al Pacino's mind, he's going to find us like villainous equal and he's just a It's just luck up perft writer It's very insightful ultimately. Well I liked my favourite scene was when Alppucino tells Robin Williams that he's about as mysterious as a block toilet is to a plumber. Yeah. just I like that a lot. But st st not really Robert Williams is got much about him either. As he really? No. It's like I didn't mean to do. I didn't mean to do. and you're like waiting for some oK what's? What happened? are you you just you just be it to death. And that's the big mystery. I really couldn not You did. Follow how, not how But why he wants to kill Hillary Swank? Like he he thinks he's getting away with it, right? right the beginning though Al Pacino says, I know's's So so you doight. So he literally explain way he kills a girl for the the first time he's killed anyone. Yeah And He's saying to Albertino, oh Godd, it was an accident and but he's secretly thinking Actually I am going to kill again And I reckon in three days I' I've got a taste for it now. That was an accident. Do you know how I' going to kill a police officer? Yeah exactly. I got to lure a police officer. She's going to tell everyone where she's going. She's going to meet me to get evidence, key evidence. I'm going to kill her. and then Then that's over, I guess, thenen I'll be caught for sure You raise a good point. Well He and he because I was watching the film thinking Well, I'm scared for for Hillary Swank because I'm, you know, a human being and I want it to be okay. And then he and I was thinking, I was trying to remember because I sort of had a vague idea of how the film, the plot went, but What is the sort of inciting incident once she's inside the cabin that makes it all kick off. And he deliberately leaves the drawer open with the dresser in it. So He's Yeah, he's forcing the situation. I found it a bit disappointing that they read his book front to back They might have read all his works you know, and it and And Al Pacino keeps saying to him, Where did you take the body? Where didd you take the body? clean the body? And and he won't tell him and it's not his flat and it's not where she, you know, where she was found And it's literally just on the blurb of the book or it's like, hereere's the killer in his summer house incret cabinet. No one like you would check just come on. Yeah have any other properties? I any all the other policemen who've been reading the book and they just think he's a good or slightly bad writer, I don't know I didn't mind that he was that he had no real exciting motive Because and the structure of it again I think' probably the thing which reminded me of seeven the most apart from some sort of jacket sort of turn of the century editing, but is that Similar to Spacey in seeven, he turns up halfway through But you kind of know that something is coming but less so in seeven and more so here. you know, I think Robin Williams is part of the trailer and he's on the poster. Whereas Spacy was much less a part of the Sven watch seven sometimes Have you seen seeven Ro? Yeah? I've seen seven I well we all love Sven.ar that I think give it much more highly than you guys, but I really like Seven. and we could transition to full Man P We could just do Finchair as well. Yeah know do you know what this podcast needs to Fight Club? Oh Do you know what I watched last week? Fight Club? I'm ready for a little bak. That's why you've been doing. you actually watched Fight Club last week. Yeah. Well, there's nothing wrong with. It's got some amazing smoking in it Oh my go Helenon. You've Where have you been? You've been away for a while. Henono that She does that bit in Fight Club where I don't know how she's better than Gandolfat it. It's like the smoke curls out of her mouth in like the sexiest way ever. Yeah. She does some great smoking in that film Fantastic. Good L actually partart She didn't even se tell a line yet. She was just in the audition. She the audition to smoke. Reret good in that film. You wereready had it a bottom car I did you know meatlaf. I think I would be meeatloaf. Meatlofs in the fm is Bob. That's meetloaf, Robert Paulse. Yeah. Wow. His name was Meetof. Yeah. H name was Meatloaf. Are they his real man boobs? No. was anything about this. That was a bit of a rhetorical question. I believe there's sacks of oat. Okay. ye. Oat looaf. Meat looafs U You you know off movies from that time. It's difficult, isn't it to get to now talk about them as adults. I really at the time Fuck' Fight Clob was made for. Basically men. Yeah, obviously no way. I think There's a smartness to it and then that smartness is obviously now It's more laughable of that moment. Yeah, but the messages in it are it's a rary acidic take on capitalist culture. Yeah. And it's funny as hell. I remember watching that film at University and having a great time. Yeah. I don't think I'd seen it since it came out is why I thought I'd watch it again And when I watched it, it was like ye, in my top ten films of all time. I wouldnt I thought it would have been really I really enjoyed. T talking to everyone about F fightlub Have you seen Fuka? you got to see Fk club? Yeah really clever. But actuallyle, have you seen one again since your opinion has changed? You see, I don't know that, you know You're sort of it's more that the culture around it Deinitely. one hundred percent. it's going to be a good film, right? It's a good film A very well made I said a funny s. Wt me on that can can't you can't say anyone to talk about like. The first rule of being out without seeming like a massive twack unfortunately. I agree So we should cut this up No. should cut this is all great stuff there. You think the same and we're on this adventure now with Christopher Nolan I't think I don't think Nolan has the same U I don't know what's the term the cultural You'd say something fun to ever hear, Nath. Cultural cache is that the term you use Wh for Fight and Christopher Nolan in terms of how big a twat you are when you talk about them earnestly. Oh, I guess just well, it's just sort of bagage isn't it more than a cache? Cache is normally a good thing. basically the same thing. I yeah, it's do that. and that's I think why I was in watching it I wanted something clever to be happening between Albercino and Robyin Williams that wasn't. It was much more just sort of a moral blurring and gray area where this guy is succumbing to this thing because he's so fucking tired. And because of the Wait of past goods that he doesn't want u undone. Um, U it is word. Um but and I think that if there is a well Mento is ultimately about Good or bad It's about the meaning of actions, if you, I think there's something much more profound in memento in that we talked about it last week, the week before because Rob's dead last week that sense of if you close your eyes, the world's still there that even if you don't, obviously for us experience memory is absolutely crucial, but actions can still have meaning. You have to believe actions have meaning outside of your own scope of reality, otherwise you know what we all doing here? And then at the end of the film That horrible, you realize that completely possible for someone with this condition to be trapped and then ultimately to trap themselves F in a recurring kind of hell, right? It's a really unique framing And we talked about how the film builds up to this moment where you see him able in those few seconds once he once everything is revealed to him He makes a moral decision to carry on selfish decision I'm just going to keep murdering people because I need something to do. And that's a bad thing. we all agree. but he's so it's you know, like is he trying to do something good? He's been pulled away and exploited by various forces all throughout the movie, then when he gets to make a choice, he makes a bad choice And I think the insomnia is about Like ultimate. and they're both kind of noir thrillers and that's the through line to me. and I think that that's after the Like I said, this so prerecision of momento They're much broader strokes have inom manyia films slightly disappointing. I thought of something else. U it's not as u clever as yours. Okay. It's Phone calls with unknown Yeah, which is is an you know, in memento, it's u It's kindind of a device for him to tell the story of Sammy. case which is And you know, and also I like that I don't know, it's kind of strange now think about it. he'll answer the phone. He doesn't know who's there. Well maybe the person says who they are and he just I think probably not talking. He's used to not knowing people. He's used to not knowing and so he just carries on, you know, they'll say like so you were saying about Samy Jankesself, he go U I can't remember exactly because it's s bit over a week since I watched this movie now, but like in insomnia If at any point he is just, I feel like at some points he's just sort of He forgets that he's talking to his adversary, maybe early on he's talking to this guy and he doesn't immediately know who it is But u There's kind of something in that I like there's something in the Um I don't know, there's something in the use of phones which I can't quite put my finger on Phone'es there. so You just don't get them anymore. They're very cinematic the same thing. they are. They're up there with cigarettes just in terms of their cinematic quality I just watched. I know what you're saying Well then they're they're massive in the matrix? Al Pacino's phone use. I think is Al Pucino's the best act That's how he got the job of all time in my opinion. He answered the phone and they went Best eye actor. Does that mean his eyes? he's good really good at acting with his eyes Can you give us an example? people at homeope, o my God. You believe with his ey? Y moment though. that was you know, the bit in the gofather, I can't remember which one it is I've not seen any of them. Okay, Jesus. He's just This is like memento. Every the Godfather comes up, I say I've never seen it. someone goes, You've never seen the Godfather. He's given some news that he's disappointed by. Right. And for about a minute, I appreciate you trying to protect. A million things go through his eyes. And his face doesn't move, but his eyes like You can tell what he's about to do or you're terrified. And in this I don't know you know, Nolan, you said that Nolan talks about A, I had a big problem or maybe it wasn't a problem, but the way I chose to do my movie was different to the Swedish original because I had Alberuccino, as if that's a problem A call God's sake, why have I got alpiccino? Why can't I just have some then I could done what the Swedish people did? But anyway, He does he does the he does the eye thing quite a lot, doesn't he? in this w directions are Tired Justs like he's staring through human space Yeah. I think I Dud be like a problem having a big name like Like first of all, there's just the baggage that comes with them and obviously this is overcome a lot. we have we have los of stars who played loads of parts and often it's just fine you It's not like you're going, why is, you know I don't know, Neo doing this in this movie. like we're fine with it. but also just thinking about Nolan and I was wondering about this just just to This movie is in part like a result of his kind of first It feels like You know Mento is independently funded. I assume that this is like got a big studio behind it. So it's sort of obviously it's got a bigger budget Um You know, it's like in a on a location. They've got Alcino, they've got Robin William. And first of all, I think just As a director, that's got to be like a little bit scary to have Alaccino in your cast and a man who I assume, you know, whose films you've watched and enjoyed and respected and here I am. young what is he like early thirties guy at this point like telling Alpacino I don't know this is just their job. Directors do this all the time, but also like there's got to be a little bit of you that's like, oh shit, I've got to direct Al Pacino and tell him how to be good. And then also just just in his diary, Al Pacino is acting so tired. Yeah I don't know what to do about it So I think that they're like and yeah, I just wondered whether this movie is just a slightly safe Oh, this is my first big movie and I've got big names and lotots of money and I don't want to fuck. Well this was the I don't want to misrepresent to the interiew from a book which recently called Oh I got a book, The Nolan. Why is there always a book There's always a book that they've done Isn't there? A these filmmakers where they just sound they've just spoken. St very speake? someomeone writes it down. And then they press down. They put it on paper. It's crazy. It's alost like a really unknown book, isn't it that you have to recommend? becauseuse no one else has heard of it. and it's always like we doggy it and you found it a library or. Well this one to be fair is like coffee table book written by like a leading film crity. So He's interviewed Christopher Noldan wr and written about all of his f. That's it, That's it really. That's what he's done. How do I know what to wr? find these books. Where do you find these in waterstones there's a film and TV section in Waterstones for example. Re We'll writing that down. Film and TV se. It's upstairs. Upstairs. Well, that's why that's why I've never se it. Yeah have it upstairs There's loads of good bs out there downstairs L loads of books. Actually each floor's got a good book. They they put sci fi fantasy downstairs. Yeah sci fi fanty in the base like that. It's got a bigger section now though. Yeah, but get nature. It's like'll hide it downstairs. Nature right. on like the ground floor now. Do know well, the ground floor has just got board games. Yes. they're not books now? Are they They're not And manga. I' read those and picture books. The real manga. Yeah. The real manga is downstairs at the back. The real manga that sounds behind there red g that about that sounds worry. I can't remember. Oh yeah, no, I know this book you read He wasn you know, I didn't read all of it because I didn't want to just come onto the pod that they just talk about. So I flick through I didn't mean to be disparaging now. I just was like, I know why I w reallyally, I mean, why can't I ever find these books? These interesting books with things that are more interesting than IMDB trivia and Wikipedia that I could actually then D be mad about relying on one source, Nath because Rob only reads IMDB trivia and now I don't read anything at all. But that' I did read one source, I'd just keep telling you about that one thing. What I was going to say I don't want to misrepent it because I don't think he was saying this is a m It seemed much more like his right very intelligent man engaging with his material. and I think it's, you know, like doesn't mean that we got that from the film that he then made, but he seemed to be quite aware of what Alpatina, although to be fair, I don't know That's a difference. this is something which you know, when did he say this? when was the interview? becausecause I think looking back on it might he might be much more settled in what he thought about the film than at the time. And I didn't get a sense from watching that interview on the meento DVD that he was someone who would then struggle to go and make his next film. but even if it's gotpcino in it. And I think it is interesting that what are the stars? I mean, when you have very well known actors in your film, it does do something different talked about Robin Williams in a way like that he's deliberately playing against That's interesting. for the film and we talked about it as well. I think because one hour photo was a similar kind of period and people talked about Robin Williams making some interesting choices. I think as a comedian, when you're not being funny, there's immediately an unsettling quality. to it and especially For someone like Robin Williams who had such an energy and seemed So in everything that he was doing in interviews and of you know, non scripted, he always seemed so generous and warm and and then to be this character with something different. and I think that Al Pcino presents a I guess he does present a problem, but I think it's also maybe it just didn't All of these ideas just didn't wrangle into a and enjoyable Robin Williams is just a brilliant actor And I don't think we see too much of it in this movie, but I just wanted to say it. I was just thinking it then. it's even in his comomedy roles, you know, there this this moment of like real sort of humanity and he's so good at being Hi, I'm Greg Richard. It's hot out there. Chill out with a new air conditioner from PC Richard and Sun. Thousands in stock, every size, every BTU. pllus we guarantee the lowest prices. PC Richard and Sun, the company you can trust Qion, When was the last time a display ad changed your mind Now think about the last time a friend told you about something they loved. Different feeling, right? That's how podcast advertising works. A host who's built real trust with their audience talks about your brand in their own words, in their own voice. It doesn't interrupt the experience. It's part of it. With ACast, you can access the world's largest podcast marketplace Choose the right shows, the right audiences, the right format. Then watch the data tell you it worked. You're not buying impressions. You're buying influence Learn more by visiting acast d. com slash advertise He's so easy to empathize with in his acting. I don't know how he does it. He's just Ready Great. I really liked D poet Society when I was a kid. Yeah. I think Goodwill hunting's really good. Don't want to shock anyone. Yeah. Goodwill hunting, I've never seen it I really you opinion to have seen so many clips of it. and very clip I see of it just really pisses me off. You hate it because I hate it. a real sm It's by like a nineteen year old Matt Damon who thinks he's fucking brilliant and writes a film about how brilliant he is. And Robin, I keep on seeing that earnest speech that Robin Williamsives when he must be what forty five and it's been written for him by A child And it's like child level Wisdom coming out of the mouth of forty five year old. Dellivered by Robin Williams, whilst Matt Damon is there receiving the wisdom from himself. delivered imagine it's just fuck off. I think Matt Damon is the most boring man Anyway, it see good wool hunting It seems like a nice the film, the whole idea of the film irritates me. There is something I will say that one then. I will say there is something sort of a conceed of course about I'm going to be playing the clerest man in the world. And you're going to be my idiot friend, Ben and I'm going to just there are loads of scenes where you will you will be I would love you to watch it now because you will be cararried along by the drama because and all films are like this, but they have pompous people who say you can't do this you're just a kid from Boston. And he's like, lookook how clever I am And then everyone goes, o my God, he's so clever. and you'll be thinking yeah, go on kid from Boston. and at the same time you'll be going this is all a fucking lie to make me feel this way and I' a fucking hateater. But it's like It's like any movie. I always this thing I've thought this for years, like at some point, if aliens ever find us and then they watch movies, they go, should you just spend all your time inventing aliens that then you're stronger than. fucking And look at us now. We're eating your planet. You fucking idiot You' be like this is do your planet but you fucked it up yourselves so there's there's loows still to eat if you're an alien. on don't know what they eat But it's a similared up planets. Don' you think though, I think it's a great solution to the problem of I'd like to star in a film Oh yeah, for shing. I mean, you got to you got to you got to respect that. Oh I you know what fuck this. I'm going to write my own role And I'm going to write a great movie. I respect it. Obviously he's a handsome and talented man, Matt Damon I just find him incredibly boring and the idea of G goodw hunting annoys me. But him being boring, you mean off screen Just him, his whole stick, everything he's stick I'm trying to think of aatt Damon role that probablyably the born identity is the most I've enjoyed watching my I know what's happen here. you've watched Team America. and you've just gone ye Damon and you've got here, that's who he is. That's it. You've you've taken on that. M Demon. What I did hear though I don't know if this is true. was that Matt Damon hates that so much that he have like he had someone thrown out of a restaurant when they did that to him we did the Matt Damon thing to him and he had them to thrown out. You can imagine, again, it's like a ropebic and Star Wars. You can just imagine everything that maybe the first time he saw the film was like this is really good. I can see how this this is funny. This is great. And then this could have been twenty years later, there's someone in a restaurant, everything that could have happened in between That guy's completely wrong. You don't go and do the Matt Damon thing to Matt Damon, you do it to Trey Parker and you know celebrate like M Damon, he's like, I'm not in that movie. This is just having a go at me. What what the hell? People like T Parker were going M Stone decided to do that because they they genuinely couldn't think of anything noteworthy to take the piss out of when it came to Matt Damon. they just made him stupid and say his name like a Pokemon. Yeah That's all they could That's all they had. It is like a Pokemon. I'm just saying that you know, if he'd come up and done a Matt Damon line at Matt Damon and he'd been like, getet out of this restaurant, that would be pretty unfair. but it's just coming up and do it What's a Matt Damon line? Give me a famous Matt Damon line? Oh you can't can you? What about how do you like? You haven't seen any of his fucking films Yeah. I've seen the Born films, I've seen the Martian. Have you seen the Departed? Yes That's a great film. Yeah Not because of Matt Damon though. He's fucking got to be part of the greatness. You not every time he comeso, Nicholson, Wlberg. Damon, Ray Winston. like he's like the other He's like one of the two main protons. I can't remember Matt Damon in that film. Oh my God R remember everyone else? That's such a great movie. I really like my name. Well You know came and in these Yeah we are' a movies will. Interestingly, just as an aside, I probably remember should say this later. I just thought it was interesting. Mat day, I saw him talking about inception. No, not inception Interstellar recently and he described it as a cameo Yeah. But is't it for like half an hour Hes he's really he tells a great story about them which we can talk doing that pod. It's a really interesting story because he's a great guy. I look forward to listening to that interesting. What is the next movie in our series? and I'm asking us not to wrap this up but to see where we're going. I love Nolan I love it. We're It's Batman begins. Batman begins. So he's gone from light all the time that it's dark all the time. Yes,'s very I really like. That is interesting just was looking for the through line of Nolan And I've not picked their phones. their phones and I bet there are some. Wh's the bat phone? Famously there's the batphone red one Yeah, Loud have been good, wouldn't it? Commissioner Gord. I got a clip served to me yesterday and it's from the nineteen sixties series where The commissioner is phoning Batman at the same time that someone else is phoning Bruce Wayne and he's got the bat phone and his normal house phone. And the commissioner's like We need to make Batman and Bruce Wayne speak to each other and he just this is one two with both phones Adam West just talking to himself as Bruce Wayne and Batman and it's brilliant. That is good stuff. Really good. That's just That's just the best stuff. good writing then Cisser Gordons Swayne and Batman. two fine men. Silar in almost every way. Well they should have taken more of that for the Nolan movie. They should have done G different. I can't believe he makes three Batmen There's so many, men Yeah. It doesn't feel like something he would do nowadays, does it? No, probably early enough in his career I would be interested to actually hear. Does it say anything in this book? presumably in this book he talks about Batmans. I've actually not read most of the book o. So I only got it a couple of weeks ago. Be I'd love to know whether he actually wanted to make a trilogy or it was more like a Warner Brothrosers This is going to be a trilogy. This is a relationship that we're in. Yeah. before it before the whole franchise suuperhero franchise as it exists today. It wasn't really thing back then. Parallel to Marvel becoming big Ironman is like two thousand seven, is it two thousand eight? Yeah. And so Batman begins before that, but there was obviously theat men from the nineties and late Aiesid Burton And X men was two thousand. So X men had already happened and Marvel wasn't what it is now. by man's one would happened as well. Yeah. Yeah. So these things were around but there wasn't I guess in a way, it's quite an interesting period because there wasn't an expectation that everything had to fit together you've If there were something as successful as Batman begins now, very soon you'd get a fucking Superman justice l and like try and squeeze them all together Whereas then it was just like, o this is a good batman. Yeahil. Well done everyone Have you got any phones in it They will say B bestest phones in movies, I just like I do I do a ho do a season on that. ' best phones. Best phones best smoking or maybe just a post The the five best phones in films. just going back to the phone like the way Al Pucino manipulates a phone and the way I use well they put a phone receiver down He's a master at it, an absolute master at pullting it down at the exact right time and ending a scene with that cl and I've always found it purple how characters and films use phones When I say goodbye on a phone It's always clumsy and everything Oh. No one says goodbye films Like the conversation just ends and a character will typically just the phone down. Yeah it's cool cool as how, the punctuation of a Yeah.. I watch two movies I watched lots of movies over the weekend, but I watched two movies with good phones in. One was All the President's Men, which I've never seen before which is it I enjoyed it so much and I was sort of waiting to be able to see it at the cinema, which I was able to this weekend. and and It's Robt, if you don't know it's the to Washington Post reporters who were investigating the Watergate scandal So the investigation goes over several years, but obviously it's a news room. so there's just loads of phones. There's los ofid on this. loads of smoke There's aad of smoking in it too. So like ye Dustin Hoffman's character, Bernstein, he just smokes throughout the film and they joke about it.. There's so much smoking And sos there's tons of phone business in but there's also there's some like secret phones. There's like, you know, like, don't call me on this number again. There'sate scandal about a phone tap? wasas it phone tap? It was bugging Oh bugging. The Democratic head. I love the fact that the Watergate scandal The original scandal has now They've taken the gate a bit of the word. was they What's the bit of the word at the end C Suff the suuffix, Thank you, Gate. And just that now gets applied to everything And that equals scandal You don't love it though D, you hate it No he loves it. I find it interesting I think you I've how you've definitely you've seemed angry about how before E people would say like, yeah, I'm trying to think of Pizza Gate Pizza Gate is that one What was the pizza? or you've just made up a scand. I thought there was a pizza gate but I'm not sure. mayaybe it was an internal one here. Right. Proably to be an office. Pizza gate scandal, yeah. Yeah I can't think of a single gate now. that is bad. What scandal. you could do this with. But yes anyway, you it is interesting Because the watergate is not it's just a building watergate, you know, like it's the water t' going on with the water Yeah, well there is I'm pretty sure I've seen routines about this. comoming back to the point that nowadays it would be called Watergate Gate Exactly That's what we've done with language. And that's exactly what median if today would say Tikokate And the other one was legally blonde, which I've not seen before. Oh leegally blonde before. she has her phone in when she gets to Harvard, shes just in it's completely covered and just pink Fop made me think have you seen Lgle Bondea made me think, did Holly Bennett watch this filment I Pressure W? Because in terms of like, Bad girl getting it done energy and small dogs. Yeah. I was yeah, I was like wait a minute, this is like an origin story. She' ask her. What's going on? A imagine if she hasn't. I know, Th she absolutely should. a big opportunity. Yeah Yeah. I like trying to get privacy on a landline You know, like this is this feels like a thing to me. Often you have a scene in like a busy kitchen Sure someone answering the phone and they're like, oh shit's the criminal crooked under their shoulder and they like take that, you know, the coiled wire around the corner as far as they can. It's always like Those things only existed in America. No one had a coil cable that long the UK. No. What's going on, Sy? We're all stood in the kitchen. And there must have been just a really small window of time before they had just like phon like cordless phones. Yeah. It's like we just We need to have the phone in different rooms. I've got the answer. It's a giant cord. Also, this is must be a big problem today. You know when for people understanding the past. You know when in a house you might have a couple of landlines Yeah. And if you picked up the receiver, you could hear what Yeah the person was saying. It's a big deal in All the president of the men. Is it? Like That just doesn't make any sense now. I feel like young people would be like, A what is that thing?s the c reason that happened. The amount of times that I would, you know, if my mum was on the phone some. Oh my God, what are you doing? Just, you know, prank noises down the phone Let's quickly pick it up Like a fart noise or something. Wh just It looks like I'm running a past. Just like appuccina would, yeah I can't do it now. And the only film to make mobile phones that calluse a matrix, obviously, and then all phones have been terrible in cinema since Whenever we get a movie now that hyperfixates on People texted each other It's not cinematic and it's not cool. You can't make touchscreens, no. one phones have to flip or, you know, slide or some fold or something I wonder if there's a video essay which tracks this because I do remember I can't remember any specific examples of it. actually like heartstopper maybe, but like There were like when was the first time I saw that like text floating on screen next to characters is the most elegant way of showing how those interactions are happening, just like Aple keyboardapping noises. Yeah sometometimes get that noise as well punctuates cry sometimes a lot now. Well but also that is a comedy noise to me because and it willll be like a understated reply just like, what are you talking about? You know, like I like in the cinema where you get a really good well mixed sound and everyone instinctively puts their hand on their pocket like their phes O animals who have their phones on vibrate Animals. I don't know how to turn off but my phone only has loud or vibrates I mean, I can show you. You're not going anywhere near my phone friend? I don't have a problem with it. I've never known such a sensitive diva. Your ears are like of backs. L Dave' just received One, you keep telling us you're going deaf and two, it's only annoying when we're recording. I am going deaf and Iar the so was never mentioned it A sits forair young wor and death as well He says further away, but there is there is like a to the point where it's established now, there's like like a grammar of this is how you show people interacting in mobile phones Yeah on screen And I don't like it there's and it's funny because it It just It seems to be like if I was telling that story and if you were making those films It so how do we make this look different You know, like, you've got to reinvent the how does everybody else do it? Let's have a look. What's the pacing of it? P probleblem is I have to remake all of the graphics on phone each other anyore Now. so s in a realistic world. like, I mean, you know, a phone call here or there, whatever, but it's like if someone's just like characters are going to text their friends and ye you know, like it's the quickest way everybody does it. And so That's that's kind of a well, it's It's another way the internet's fucked everything up, isn't it? It's another way. Everything's just internal. Everything's just me and my screen.'s not cinema. Next thing I've just thought is like the self checkout. communication is it It's like I don't want a human interaction. I don't want actually speak to them. And I'd do it my own time those I don't know what I'm saying. We just thinking about the power of the press, obviously while watching all the presresidentents's men. just how important it is, how fucking Jeff Bezos now owns the Washington Post. Well, it doesn't feel like the press are wielding that power as much as they don't have can't wield it as much as It's bad times. It is bad. We are fucked We need the press You can't have democracy without the press No what you can't. is Bad, bad. I wonder where we're heading. Yeah. Batmanbig. We're heading to Batman Bgin. You know who will save us a billionaire with a tank? Yeah, I love it. Imagine if you Musk was also a benevolent like superhero. Well there was that whole thing about Well well, he's in Iron Man too, isn't he? There was this whole thing he was styling himself in that way. I'm going to make really great trains everyone. Mbe you Have you ever thought about putting trains under the ground? They don't use jet packs enough, do they? The singer from Muse hass got a jet pack, but you know you mean people Billionaires though. Right. Like, you know, ' Batman is obviously ultimately like a billionaire who When you say the singer from Muse has a jetpack, do you mean that he uses on stage or to go No he just he made loads of money and he was like, I want a jetpack So you got a jet pack and he comes. I've seen jet packs which look relatively like feasible Now theseese are jet Yeah, no, I've said I've seen, but how do they not burn all your legs U I think they that was one of the They thought of that quite soon. Yeah. they designed it have legs. First of all, you probably have to wear some special trousers. Secondly, I think that you know, the jets are angled slightly away. You probably dont you don't fly vertically. You probably you fly slightly. You have to correct for if I land badly and my legs collapse underneath me, I don't want to incinerate myself Yeah. So I guess that's true. othertherwise, the guy. So what does he do with his jetpack wring a goardist I the garden. Yeah, I mean, well, he's probably got a big garden. Do think he flies to Morrisonsons I don't think the guy from L back shock. Have you ever seen for a while on TikTok? I used to get served these videos of a guy. I think he had a microlight or like a small, you know, of It was like I think you'd have to run. get it to get going. I if noise because you were acting out the run It had an engine. Anyway, he would just like he lives in America somewhere and he'd just like fly McDald's to get and u There's something about that. He's just doing that stuff. He's just, you know, he's probably li in the middle of Devon. Yeah and it's just flying to the coast and I do like the idea of flying The u What's the there's that Like it's not maybe it's exactly what you're trying to describe, like paragliding, is it? But sort of powered Yes, but with a choute and you can just you can go for it. think's a microlight as one which is like it's like a soft but fixed wing you know, on a frame and it's just like a little thing you sit in with a with a propeller, I guess Yeah just flying around and he had an air strip at his house and he's flying. S I was just thinking like I was literally going be like how much money do you think you need before you can just fly as a hobby? And then you said he had an a strip at his house and I was like That's not me. No, That's not me