Final Thoughts and Future Plans

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Hire wr the first time Post your job for free on LinkedIn today at linkedIn. com slash quality smmart security made simple. That's the new Blink two K videoide doorbell lineup. Choose battery powered convenience or hardwired reliability. Whatever suits your home, setet up in minutes. then start greeting your guests and seeing your deliveries in detail from anywhere. Because whether you're a renter or homeowner, you deserve peace of mind Shop new blink two K video doorbells at ammazon. com slash blink Hey, what's going on? Rob Sispernino and we're blessed today because we're here with the winner of Survivor fifty to talk all about her experience. Please welcome the reigning champion of Survivor. It's Aubrey Brcco. Wh, Rob, thank you. That still feels very strange, surreal Thanks for having me It's just so surreal to be here with you to talk about your win still. For me, I'm sure it must be surreal for you. We happen to be in the midst of a K wrong rewatch where we watch you're looking at your baby pictures, We're watching your origin story. It's so incredible that it was it was ten exactly ten years It took you to get back and to win and excited to get the chance to talk to you about it. How you doing Rob, I'm great. I'd say it's finally started to slow down and I'm kind of getting into normal life working with my clients. I mean, it's definitely a little bit jarring. You probably can attest to this. It's like, whoa, you're going at warp speed and then it's like Here's life. So it's been it's been nice to have a clean kitchen again and have my laundry folded. I'm not perfect, but I'm a little. It's very nice. Anyway, so let's go back through your experience here with Starfys. I think that you know, as somebody who has, you know, watched so much of you recently, you always have such interesting thoughts and ways to things C you talk a little bit about how you looked at this experience to go back for season fifty Yeah, I mean I never thought I was going go play again. after season thirty eight, everybody heard that interview. That was rough. That was ragged, and that was real. And after that, I really did take myselflf away from the survivor community. I did a lot of work I got to the root of anxiety. I got to the root of like, how much do I really care about what people think and all that stuff? And I just kind of like learned to get in touch with myself again So when the call came after I talked to you and TBird, I never before that conversation, I was like, whatever, this is over and never again. and TBird brought up fifty. And I'm like, no way. And then I got the call And I was like, whoa A I going to do this to myself? Am I going to do this to my family or am I going to look at this as an opportunity to kind of rewrite or reframe or give another shot at this game that I love that I've stepped away from. And so I realized that I really did have the latter attitude and I was ready to like take on the challenge and not let it happen to me. but Do it as like the me that had had a chance to get grounded and step back. So it really was, it was ten years in two days, I think, was the difference between the Corong finale and the fifty finale I was thirty the first time the votes were read. I'm forty now. and it just felt like a life chapter and like just such a blessing and a gift to get to rewrite Like that absurd ending in thirty eight I mean, it was it was wild I feel like it must have been so surreal for you like in as it was happening, maybe maybe more so as the votes are right. I wouldn't know.. Where did it really hit you more right after it happened and you felt like you won or after they announced the win You mean in Fiji or? Yes Oh, definitely in LA. Like I here's the thing, when you come so close, I never allowed myself to believe I had won. I didn't care what the betting market said. I didn't care what rumor the rumor said. I needed to see it written down And so I think it was as I was sitting there and Jonathan and I were coming to the realization, I was like, this is likeike I can't believe this is happening. That was surreal. It was also surreal just getting to the final three again. had a lot of like panic actuallyctually when that moment was happening, Im was like, I should have gone out of four. That would have been easier than getting to the final three again and losing. So I'd say the most surreal was Final four win And like the fear of losing again and then when it was being read There was a lot of discourse about the betting market as you mentioned and how you were such a prohibitive favorite. Did that take anything away from the experience in that that feeling like instead of it being as much of a surprise for people, that maybe some people were seeing it telegraphed I don't know if I'd say it took away from the experience, but I did keep having that anxiety of like, I mean it all sums back to that anxiety and having been through it before. And I was like, what a cruel joke Odds are this good And I freaking lose survivor again. That would be like gnarly So u If anything, it made it like a little bit more of a stressor, but I've also learned to live with that kind of sitting in the background at all times. So I kind of was like It's just another thing I can't control whatever. It's Abssurd. You seem like that from you where you started in your survivor career back on those first couple of days in sururvivor Mong where you know, there's there's heat exhaustion, but then it seems like that you're also having some panic over, oh my God, am I is it all slipping away because I'm not feeling well And to get to where you seem to be now, speak a little bit to how how you were able to do to get there Yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, that's something for a ten hour podcast, But to keep it short, like I did I went to a therapist on my own for the first time in my life after C wrong, I realized it was an anxiety thing at the time. I thought it was like this heat exhaustion. I didn't even realize it was anxiety And I realized I had this very achievement oriented background. like prep school, Ivy League school. and I really had this mentality that I was raised with of if you control the thing, if you work really hard, you will arrive and you will be rewarded for that hard work And I say losing Co wrong was the best gift I ever had because it taught me you can't control everything And then I'd say in the seven years between thirty eight and fifty All of my work has been with entrepreneurs. And the whole thing if you're an entrepreneur is how do you recover from failure? You fail fast, you pivot quickly. My friend Chris Savage, she's a CEO of WistIia just sub video software company always says. And he's right And I learned that like An F up is actually a gift because you can you can adjust more quickly. And I think once I realize that like you don't arrive at anything. you can't control everything. L peoplee will always have an opinion. You can decide what opinion to take You don't have to take them all. like I just learned to like be more in tune with my own voice. be more grounded and listen to myself and then just like kind of take everything else with a grain of salt and take failures as gifts. I know that's like very existential, but I really grappled with those things. And like losing is the best thing that ever happened to me, truly. Yeah, it's an amazing lesson and I feel like it's also the cure to losing where that once once you have a loss, I think it's the ability to put the loss in perspective that helps you move on from the loss also I mean, it can't it can't define you. It can really feel like it can. and I let I mean, I spend years of my life dreaming about the final trial of thirty two likeike what could I have done differently? And then I started to realize like, Sometimes it just is what it is. I mean, you get very spiritual and wacky and woo woo about it, which I have, but Most likely, the answer is there's nothing you could have done differently In that moment and that time and place, there's nothing I could have done differently with what I knew then But with all the lessons I had, which I was very open to feedback after thirty two. And then I like really internalized what I wanted to internalize to that in the interim and the ten years That allowed me to have different tools in a different time and place to do the which I did. You know We have your Game in Svivor C wrong and then also this winning game that you have in Survivor fifty. And in some ways now You've become the Michelle and that Jonathan is probably feeling the way that you were feeling maybe after Cong Have you and him If you're at liberty to discuss, like had those types of conversations Yeah, I had a conversation about Jonathan and I get along very well. We talk throughout the season. You're in a very unique spot at the end and Jonathan and I knew it was between the two of us And I'd say it was in like April. I said, you know, I'm not entirely sure. And he wasn't entirely sure, but it seemed he thought it was leaning toward me I said that If I do pull it out, it's going to be a similar dynamic in terms of the ground swell that I think Michelle and I had. And this time I will probably be more in her camp because the game I played wasn't as much of a one that can be shown on TV and the one that you played is one that's more of like dominant moves and it's more of a resume. and that's shown more overtly in a story that can be told on television. So We did talk about that And We have talked about that, but that doesn't mean like the sting of sitting up there and losing two million dollars is going to be any less. And I don't hold any ill will toward Jonathan whatsoever for his reaction, that's truly his reaction. We've talked since we're fine I'm actually like let people be more vulnerable and emotional about what survivor really feels like? And I don't always think that we're willing to accept that from people You mention in the finale that you practiced on doing some motion before you went out there. I know you have also said that you listened to a lot of podcasts. Could you speak a little bit more to the work and the prep you did prior to Svivber fifty Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, I was stalking around, seeing what the rumors were for sure I got that little Etsy Sotion game. I got the Fitz toer on Etsy. I was doing a little more puzzle work. I tend to get panicky with puzzles. They are not my thing. just becausecause I wear glasses doesn't mean they're my thing. And I did once that came out on like that Friday, like the cast was leaked, I downloaded every single exit interview that you did with the players that were around the season And I listened to them in the pregame as I was sitting there with my no WiFi iPod sitting around watching people in the jungle, I wanted to understand what people's regrets were where I think they might be different now, where they had potentially evolved, how they saw the game. And had I was studying people and I was studying the new era because I had taken a break from Survivor. I was since I was called in November, I was studying the new era the whole time. Was it helpful to come in with that information? Be I think that sometimes also you can get sort of boxed in of like, okay, this is who this person is and it's not what the actual person is like when you get there. I would say that information was helpful to an extent. You're right because if you kind of put permanent marker on it you're a little less willing to kind of like erase and rewrite your version of that person. U So I definitely did take it kind of with a grain of salt because you can really like over plan and Everything topples. You know, you had mentioned in the past that on the way to Fiji, you also got sick and I'm not gonna I'm not going to say who you said got you sick because we don't need to, but that you said that you were not feeling well in the very beginning of the game Yeah. and I mean, I'm not sure it was that person, but I had some kind of like upper respiratory thing. It was like the second day of game and I felt like my lungs were glued together and I was like gagging on the on the barge when you come in. I got like you know, the bilge or whatever, it's called like the exhaust off the boat my guts out. and I you know, I fll like crap for the beginning. I mean, still responsible for my own actions and how I played at the beginning, but liket I felt like crap Yeah. And so did you feel like that that held you back in the early days of Survivor fififty I think it didn't make me my sparkly self, but I wouldn't say that it like necessarily impacted things. I mean Something that's funny is I got a lot of comments about my demeanor at the beginning. and'm like oh, my face is my face. but like you do exude a certain energy to people. and I'm sure if I was a little spark more sparkly, that would have been helpful. The beginning of the game was more complicated than that for me. I got on the wrong side of Vatu very quickly and It was a hard thing to recover from. and I didn't think that my actions were like as catastrophic as It appeared that they were when they went through my bag roub. Did you know about that prior to that episode airing I didn't know that they had gone through my bag. No one had told me that they'd gone through my bag. I had a decent ility to communicate with everybody in that tribe I was vibing with Q. Q told me the day before the swap that he wanted to throw the challenge so that we could vote out Angelina. So Angelina and I were on the bottom. a Really good rapport with Stephanie except Stephanie told me I didn't commit fast enough Angelina and I were good except that I felt like Angelina was starting to speak on my behalf because she was like, I'm your number one. let me speak on your behalf. And then we all saw Jenevve and I, like I did try to work with her approached her that that in that conversation. We kept talking every night, but like what she would say to me didn't line up to how I felt around camp with her And she once said to me that like Island wasn't big enough for her in Siri and I like knew deep down in my gut, even though I wanted it to work, I'm like, oh This system Also That's my ramble about Vatu. I didn't know they went through my bag. I knew that it was murky and murky's not a good thing, but I like didn't want to believe it, if that makes sense. And then when I saw them, I was like, o, this was bad. This is real bad . Babs. In terms of how I feel like you are looking at Survivor fififty where you are not necessarily trying to start as fast as maybe you might have been trying to in the edge of extinction, where you really were a lot more forward in terms of trying to build was that by design on your part I mean, yes, it was by design that I wanted to have relationships that were more working relationships and not necessarily deep relationships. That was very important to me because something like in a deep relationship, You have loyalty with people. You have like the emotional support, you have the trust But you also have like expectations and more visibility. And then there's guilt involved when things go south And I wanted to stay in that pocket of having more working relationships, but I realize that watching it back, like in fifty, I was probably a little too slow. Like when Stephanie said, I didn't know who you were going to commit to Crap, That was a loss because I actually found Stephanie very easy to talk to. So it was by design and Yeah, I mean, we can debate about whether that works at the beginning, but it did actually end up helping me in the post merge that I had done that. There has been a lot of discussion over the course of season fifty over people who were talking prior to the game starting. From my vantage point, it seems like you get the call for the you're in the cast, you're out of the cast, you're back in. But it seems like that you are pretty much minding your own business for the months leading up to Survivor fifty and ultimately you end up with the win, but do you feel like that contributed at all to a slow start It's so interesting. I angst it about the pre gaming question, Rob hours and days pererhaps. pererhaps that contributed to the slow start I'm not sure because I also think it ended up helping me because I do think that those relationships and people feeling that they were indebted to people ended up being other people's downfall. So yeah, maybe you could say it was a slow start. I'm not privy to every relationship that was kind of in the works, but I definitely felt on the outs very quickly But this isn't your first season with returning players in your, you know, multiple adventures in the past. Do you feel like that it's the type of thing that has held people back from what you've seen For me in the way I like to play, I think pre game relationships hold you back I do. I really do because people expect something of you. They expect things to go a certain way And I think that the new era I mean, and I will see with the open era, but I think in the new era and in returning player seasons where there tend to be a lot of twists that you have to be receptive and open And I think that people are less receptive and open to the unknown when they feel like they have something sure. If that makes sense Mhm. Yeah Tell me a little bit about the part of the game where it's after the swap, but you're now linked up with Tiffany, but you're also hearing that okay, well Genevve is actually putting your name out there. And you have the idol at this particular point in time. Were you prepared to go to a tribal council and play that idol I was absolutely prepared to go to a tribal and use that idol I mean, Tiffany validated when I just when I said before that like I could feel things were weird on the first try, but I didn't want to admit it to myself Tiffany validated for me that my intuition was dead on. And I think I was working through From of thirty eight at the very beginning of the game. Like I didn't want to believe it. That happened in thirty eight where I didn't wantan to believe it. And then Tiffany was like, girl, wake up. This's not thirty eight. Like you better believe what's happening here. And I did believe it. and I was ready to play that thing. I mean, I got there the first day of the new Co and I thought comfortable with people one on one Then I realized I had a conversation with Joe. where I was like, Joe, I'm not in a good spot. Then Joe went to Colby and Genevve and then Genevve and Colby are pulling people, Genevve is pulling people into this jungle one by one. And I'm like, oh my gosh Here comes the poisoning of the well. and I just knew that Genevieve wasn't with me. I found it to be like very weaponized empathy when she said we thought, you weren't feeling well when she's coming for me looking for the idol in the jungle For me, she could have made it clear that she didn't want to work with me. and I found it like I found it personal and I was like, gotta play this thing because She was so talented, Rob at like controlling the narrative and social framing of the two tribes I was on. She's so talented at it. I was like, everybody is enamored and she is the center of this tribe. and except I'm not in it. and I'm not welcome here It was like when you go to a party and you feel like you're not welcome, it was that sensation. And hell yeah, I was gonna play that idol. There was no way I wasn't. And I didn't even tell Tiffany I had it I was holding onto that thing And then I never had to use it This episode is sponsored by Better Hp. We talk about mental health more openly today than we used to. It comes up with friends and podcasts on social media all the time But actually asking for help yourself, that still feels hard. Better Helps, twenty twenty six state of the stigma Report surveyed two thousand Americans and revealed that eighty five percent of Americans believe that getting support is wise, but seventy four percent say society discourages people from doing so Gap right there. That's the whole problem. We know it's a smart move. We tell a friend to do it in a heartbeat, but when it's our turn, something holds us back The way that we close that gap is by talking about therapy the same way we talk about anything else that helps people like going to the gym, going to the doctor, and getting advice from someone who's been there. Better Help is the world's largest online therapy platform with over thirty thousand fully licensed therapists. A short questionnaire matches you up with someone that fits what you're looking for and if it fits not right, you can switch it anytime Dont Let stigma stand in the way of support. Start therapy with Bet Help. Sign up and get ten percent off at betterterhelp d. com slash RhaP. That's betterhLp dot com slash RhapP This episode is brought to you by Perfect Bistro Cat Food. Hey guys, todayoday I'm interviewing my cat about his perfect bistro food. Percy, you seem to be a big perfect Bistro fan, C a comment Totally. What do you like about it? You love the high quality ingredients? And the delicious flavors, of course. Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. Listen to Percy, guys Visit perfectBastro. com to try it for your cat G'm glad you brought narratives up because it feels like at the beginning of the game, you're saying that you were the victim of narrative warfare Oh my gosh, I never think I'm a victim ever. That's actually something in survivor that I have always taken accountability for my actions. I don't think I'm a victim. I think I got on the wrong. The recipient of narrative warfare. Don't you love how I'm like, I will not accept the word victim I I do think that Genevieve was very talented that yes, I do think that I was on the losing side of the narrative at the beginning of the game, one hundred percent. And it's so funny in retrospect thinking about our dear Christian Hubiki When he said that this game was all about narrative warfare, it was. It's the whole game, but narrative warfare and survivor happens in the big sense for a season. It happens pre merge, it happens swap, post merge, and then it happens in all of those little moments throughout the day And I definitely was not winning in those little moments throughout the day on Vatu and the new Ko Do you think that narrative warfare was something that was really specific to this season because everybody is coming back with these legacies and these like incredible legendary runs in the past or Do you feel like it happens every single season Great question. I think it happens in every single season. I think it might not be as overt I think that it was really like something day one on Survivor fifty when you're on the mat and Jeff calls on coach. Everybody's story' there. Everyone's the hero of their own story percent. And that's something I thought about coming into it. L everyone here is trying to rewrite something. I was trying to rewrite something too, but I really did go in like everyone else is the hero of their own story. and I just want to be the container and I want to hold space for that. I don't want to jam my narrative down their throat, I want to work around them if that makes sense. Like I don't think we talk about for returning players how much it means to them to have their story be the story that's like front and center, whether they're aware of it or not And in my work, like, I'm a marketer. I work with CEO's. I work with entrepreneurs one step behind the scene. And something I'm always thinking about is like It's not about my story. It's about me elevating yours. and that's something I did throughout the whole season. And it's so funny because I look back my application for Survivor in twenty fourteen. And I remember Casting was like, you'd never win with that strategy. And I think I did, which is that I wanted to remain on the fringe and let everybody else kind of have their stories happening so I could observe what was happening and then go where I needed to go and navigate around their stories and their headlines Who in particular do you feel like that you did the best job of that with with their stories. Yeah, making them you feel like that you were helping them right their wrongs I mean, I think Ozzie, I think that was a big part of that moment with Ozzie where I I mean, that conversation where he was kind of telling me his plans was more extended than you saw. and I kept validating it. I was like, yeah, you're right. like I understand it. like this is your season. I think that was it I think Joe was a big part of it. We didn't see a lot of my relationship with Joe, but I was very aware from the swap at New Co that Joe and I had been in the same position We lost our first season. We'd watched it on TV and like a week after we watched it, we were in a new game and you don't have time to process your experience until you've watched it and then you had no time So I felt like I knew what Joe's story was and I knew what it meant to him. and I had a great working relationship with Joe throughout And then I think I kind of like understood, I wouldn't say Rick Devin's story, but like Devonss is always writing a story. and I know that he likes to always be writing a story. So I was very aware that like Rick was writing this story of Devins in Survivor fifty. and I was aware of how he likes to write So I'd say like those are just three examples. I mean, I kind of had an idea. Yeah for a lot of people, but you feel like that your line of work, you felt like you like keenly understood every other player's brand and what they were looking for out of the experience Oh, I don't want to say that I ever understand anyone completely. I don't want to claim that, but I think I took some time to study that. I mean, I do like figuring out why people are the way they are. And I think I did do thinking around that and I did try to listen. along the way We saw you have a pretty good relationship with coach. It didn't ultimately bear too much fruit in terms of the actual votes, but what was that relationship like Oh my gosh, I loveove coach. I I have like a similar report with them like I did Debbie Wner at the beginning of the game He is larger than life, but coach is really a person who wants to help people be them best their best selves. He wants to be heard, he wants to be understood. And he's done a lot of work like transitioning from being misunderstood to like not caring about that. So we really like bonded over like the misunderstood and there were a lot of people who were survivor finalists who'd never won on this season and we bonded over that. There were a lot of people in that camp. Another person like that was Chrissy who we didn't I think that maybe only one time I can remember you having an on screen conversation with her. Do you have a good relationship with Chris? I would guess that they're probably that there there would have been. I feel like you both played in the thirties and had the same come of losing at to final tribal councsel Yeah, it's funny. Chrisy is someone who I am like, I've been great like, you know, at the finale, great chats out of the game. We would have like chats about life and real life things like Be a parent, what she's gone through kind of on some of the personal end, some of the health issues on my family's end. But in the game, she is one person where I didn't talk game with her until the night she went home. I do not know what it was. Yes, I do. She was like married to like coach in the honor and intntegrity thing. and she didn't really for me in the game until she kind of needed me. So that was the one person where I say I didn't quite have it. Everybody else I felt like I had a working relationship with So You get to the blood boon. And the Blood Moon is this, you know, you've just been in this not great position for the whole game and then you finally like the the fates have flipped And now Here you are in this small tribe and you're matched up with Christian and Rick, who you feel like that Rick isent you the idol, even though it was Christian. and you're here with Joe, who you have been talking to at least. That must have felt so good to have gone from being at the bottom to being in this good position I mean, yeah, it absolutely felt it felt good. And in that moment, my goal was really to show Christian and Devins that I was willing to let them lead A lot of people were like, why didn't Arey have more of a voice at that moment I thought it was really important. I had no social equity that I let Christian and Devanss who had kind of like taken me in. They like actively took me in the merge and like, hey, I'm not kidding you. This is what I want to do A And I wanted them to kind of like do their thing and I wanted to observe them and let them lead that I didn't play the idol like they wanted me to night, but that's the other part of the story Well let's talk about that part of the story because you really were the center of attention, which is probably not what you wanted when you get to the seventeen person merge. And then they expected you to play the idol and then you told everybody you forgot Yeah, not my finest moment, very much my crossing out Juliet and writing Pete sure some patterns. We all have patterns Rub Yeah I about that vote too for another time, but we could might keep going. Yeah. alm wasost n years ago. I don't remember we can talk about it. Yeah, I knew I was safe. I wanted to hold on to it I spewed out the first thing that came to mind. It was not the right thing to say. Absolutely not. Yeah, but I will also say this Man was it frustrating at that merge. I had kept it quiet that I had that idol. Everybody knew Mhm. I mean that And I do think two things can be true. We often forget two things can be true in Survivor. Yes, I made a stupid move saying I would play and not alsoso, why was I the target with that idol and Ozzie and Rizzo wasn't weren't? I mean, I think it was more than me just saying I was going to play it and not. Like it was kind of this like person floating around, they didn't know where I stood, but anyway You very keenly at the next vote when D got voted out, you stood up and you played the idol and you talk about how, hey, look the and I'm sure you have the exact quote, but you compared it to having The Scarlet letter, the idol that everybody knows about. And yeah, I said, this is bad. whyy are you doing this? But I think it really put you on this trajectory to get to where you got I knew I knew how to do it.. If you keep not playing that thing, I'm not Rizo in forty nine, all right? which made me laugh when I saw forty nine and hadn't seen it yet Absolutely had to play that thing. I had no social equity at the merge. And if there's a discrepancy between what I'm saying and what I'm doing, I'm going to keep burning people. They're going to feel like I'm clowning them. I can't do it. I can't do it again And the other thing too, I thought about a lot in fifty is I was given the feedback in thirty two that I was very cagey at tribal council and people didn't see my game. So I was like, listen, I'm gonna to narrate. We're talking about like I was in the wrong side of the narrative pre merge. I was like What I have to do now to gain trust is to play this thing. And I'm going to narrate this so clearly that everyone in this Youuge tribe sees exactly what I'm doing and I did it. And I do think that was like the turning point. I think my game started there It really goes on the upswing from that point. and really that immunity idol that people know about, it's a little bit like sort of like this homing beacon where that you have that thing, everybody is going to be continuing to talk about you and figuring out how do we disarm Aubrey Oh yeah, I mean it was I would have been the target until I was out. And I did not want that to be me. And then I very quickly realized there were other people who were like, the bright shiny objects in the ocean that was the merge tribe and that by getting rid of the idol, I could kind of like What is like Homer Simpson into the bushes?s back into the bushes Yeah, biggin of theur so you remain in a bit of danger when you're paired up with Rick Devans and then they ultimately are going to go to that tribal cououncil where he's going to pull out the fake idol, which he I'm sure did not loop you in on. C you talk about your experience with that at that double tribal council Oh my gosh, what an afternoon that was. I was listening to Christians chat about that that afternoon. That was wild because we were waiting for the cavalry to come back. Si Christian did do a lot of work a lot of work to save me and Devins on that vote. That's when Chrissy approached me about going for Rzo and Emily. I mean, I will say I did not have All that much control. That was probably the least in control I ever felt I mean, it was it was absolutely wild. I do just remember sitting there. I could be wrong. I remember Rick saying, Missari, do I need to do something? And she said yes. and then he went and got it I think I'm correct I don't know, but that one was like a blur And it was it was really cool because it was like M see and Rick Devans back to old Rick Devans And so I felt like I got saved in that one, which I was like, thanks guys. I just played this idol that you wanted me to play. I played it. Now I'm in trouble And then that vote was also like I started all over again. And the thingang that ended up being a gift for me and I feel so bad because Christian Hubki is like one of my top people from this season is that after that vote Christian had done so much work to save me and Devans that it really thrust him to the forefront and the inner dynamics of like the tribe where he became like the tallest poppy in the field And I felt like that was my key to break away from that group of Emily Devinson and Christian. Yeah. We see you talk to Jonathan right after that vote and you talk to Jonathan about how like, hey, I'm not necessarily with them. I would like to work with all different types of people. So don't assume that I'm part of that Absolutely. ye. So why I bring up the Christian thing is that Christian had worked with Jonathan and that doubles twist. And I had also noted that Christian is amazing at going one on one and developing deep relationships. You feel so warm and fuzzy with Christian, He's truly the best. I love him and I could tell that like Jonathan felt really comfortable with Christian and felt really burned that Christian did not loop him in on that vote And so I was like, all right I know Christian had done a lot of work. There's this friction between Christian and Jonathan. And Joe had told me the people in the middle, they weren't really the people in the middle, but like Joe had this thing where he kept talking about Camilla and Kyle came out at the eleventh hour and took him out. and that's how he saw Devin's, Emily, Christian, and then me because I was near them. So I'm like friction between Christian and Jonathan. talkalk to Jonathan and kind of like getet away from Christian Devinons and Emily We haven't talked too much about Serei yet. and I think you have a conversation with her at the early part of the merge, right when you all get there. We also see her light up when Christian and Rick tell her that they've given the idol to you. She's a part of that cavalry that comes in and helps save you and Rick ultimately Could you just talk a little bit about the working relationship you had with Siri Yeah, I Serene and I have like the special intuitive thing. Like, you know, we don't text every day. We don't talk every day. We're But we have this like understanding of how the other moves and like a deep deep respect, like Siri means a lot to me And I remember at the merge, she came to me and she goes, Hey, I heard you're going around telling people, I'm a mastermind I hate that like Wh! I said, listen, Si, they know we play together. They're concerned about the two of us. I had to say that like to distance myself. She's like, okay, that checks out. That makes sense And she said something to the effect of like, if this is going to work, we can't talk to one another And I know what Siri means. Like you watch Siri in the season. I believe Joe described it as like Si is like sitting in a garden. And all of a sudden The tulips will start talking to the birds and the birds will start talking to the daffodils and it's a name and all of a sudden that person is voted out I understand how Siri moves. I don't always know how she does it, but we have this understanding where I could look at her and be like, Siri, you should talk to this person right now or I'd say like, Yo, Siri, why are we not looking at Stephanie? or like Hey, I just came from that conversation. I forget which one was it Oh, when Stephanie went home. like what you saw that talk with me Devan's Jonathan on the beach, and Ozzie's name came up. I knew that Siri body language wise, I could tell her and Ozzie were close. I went up to Serei first thing and I said and I said, Siri, they want Oz out. I don't want him out yet So that's the kind of relationship I had with Serea. I could just give her little nuggets and I could feel where she was losing faith in people and I just plant a seed and walk away. That was our relationship. And I feel Yeah, it's so funny, Rob, no one would believe me, but I remember going in when I saw Seree's name on the list. I said to my mom and sister, I was like, o my gosh, I' had folks Sree out at six or something like that. Like that's how far it can go and that's it I mean, that's that's where she gets off. That's her stop Yeah It is and I love her. I do think she's an incredible player. I love her. Anyway on for years You know, the Mister Beastcoin ends up being of particular significance to you, who ends up being the biggest recipient of Rick Devan's bravery. What were you thinking in the moment Oh my gosh, in the moment, I mean, I wanted to hit, but I also was like, u, should I have done that? because I thought it was me And I knew that if it wasn't Devin's, I was next on that side perceived side at that moment. So I was so torn, Rob. I mean, I thought it was an amazing twist and I had hoped I'd done the work. So I was like very torn. But I also knew when I saw that leake that light in Devin's eyes, I'm like, he was born to flip this thing. And I like genuinely, I mean that. And I talked to Tyson on the red carpet after fifty. like there were moments this season where I felt like in my gut, I just knew And I like listen to that this season And in that moment I didn't let my head override my gut. I was like, Devins has to flip this damn thing. Yeah. evenven when things weren't clear, and I think that's like even talking to you about the pre merge Like even I talk about it, some things were like not clear. And it's like As I started further in the game, my intuition clicked on again, which was a relief because that was what I felt like I hadn't come wrong. It was my sixth sense. It was like the quiet moments coin flipped and I was like Devons needs to flip it. I'm like clearer than ever. Iuitions here. He flipped it. let's go 'mraveling After Rick flips the coin, I believe we get to the power broker day and it I would say tell me if I'm off base on this, maybe the most important day in the game Yeah, the power broker game Power Broker Day. And I think Many players would say this. I think Christian even said it in the interview you did with him I mean to determinine the entire season. The way things were kind of divided or the pieces were on the table at that point, it did create Like it galvanized the final four of that game. And I still firmly believe that. I mean, we I saw Jonathan won that power broker advantage And I was I was devastated honestly at first. I had done my work with a had to have a working relationship with him, Ozzie, Joe, and Rzo thoseose four guys were all hanging out that morning. They were starting to bond. that was starting to coalesce. and When I went on that walk with Ozzie I was like, oh my gosh. Just listen to him. just listen to him And then it started to come together where Rizzo was catching on, like this isn't good for my game if he's here And that changed the whole trajectory of the game. And I feel like I played my role perfectly that afternoon. Like I played dead like a pro. I don't think I've played dead like I did the night Ozzie went home since Tony went home second in Game changers, and it was me or Tony But I knew the role I had to play and I thought I played it well. And I know like they never Trusted me one hundred percent, Joe and Jonathan, but I showed them that I was willing to stand by my word and it worked wishing you could be there live for the big game, soaking up the atmosphere in the crowd Too often, life gets busy orr the price hld you back Priceeline is here to help you make it happen With millions of deals on flights, hotels, and rental cars, you can go see the game live Don't just dream about the trip. book it with prriceline. Download the prriceline app or visit priceline. comot Actual prices may vary limited time offer So when this is all going on and you go to that tribal council, how confident are you that everybody's going to do what they said they were going to do? in the Tbal cououncil with office. I I believed those guys. I mean, I also I believe them because like Jonathan had been talking about getting Ozzie out. Just because you think it though, doesn't mean it's like only one who thought it. But Jonathan had been wanting to do it. and I'm like, okay, Jonathan's going to do it And then I knew that Rizo and Joe were good. So I knew they were going to vote together and knew they were. It was just a matter of like, is Ozzie going to play this thing It's like, oh my God, I feel like there were so many times for him to do it and then he just didn't. And it was like a miraculous. Was there any part of it U other than playing Dead where you or anybody else did anything to get Ozzie to not play the Iidol Yeah, I think it was just like making Ozzie very comfortable. And I think it was like I did a lot of work on my relationship with Azzie before that vote I cut off a piece of his hair and he buried it in Fiji because we wanted to leave a piece of him on the island. We talked a lot about our work, and this is where I actually like do feel badly as a human. We talked about how our intuition had been destroyed from not playing an idol before And how much I feel horrible saying this, how much work we'd buil done to recover. And I really respected the evolved Ozzie as I do. Like Ozzie is someone who I absolutely love. He's willing to change And we really bonded over that. So I think it was my willingness to hear him out. My willingness to validate his story and then me showing him in that moment that I was fully at peace because I had no control Like I was the person that Ozzy needed in his story at that moment. where not only did I like play dead, but I validated him. and I lined up with the Aubbery that he'd known throughout the game. like something that I did in this game. That's like very nuanced. as I thought a lot and you may have seen this in thirty two. It was like in thirty two, I was like, what's the move I can make think about like was I too close to the person before I voted them out and then I tried to prove myself at the end? L I think something you have to do is you have to minimize like the discrepancy between who they experience in the game and who tries to make the case for a million or two million dollars at the end And what I mean by that is like I wanted Ozzie to see Aubrey throughout the game and then that's thezzie that's the Aubrey sitting there at the end that he has to vote for. And in that moment with Ozzie, I was the person that I was the entire game. I didn't seem any different, I didn't act differently. And then that was the person who showed up at the end, if that makes sense Yes. that you are not trying to be Yeah, it does. I don't know if I could articulate it back to you as well as you did Yeah, because I would say this, like there were people who voted Azzie out that night. would I would say this Don't be mad at me, guys. this is just what I saw where they had done a lot of work to have a personal relationship with him That felt a little above and beyond what it needed to be to then turn around and vote him out I was just like The same Auby like it's like the whole thing of like, how close are you going to get and how much does it hurt Yeah. It's like I kept my relationship in the pocket Did you have much of a relationship with Ozzie from Survivor Game Changers? My relationship with Ozzie and Survivor Game Changers is that the night he went home, he was dragging bamboo on the beach and I said to him Ozzie we should really talk sometime. He said, yeah, we should. and then he got voted out But that story I brought into fifty. and I was like, Auszie, I always feel like we were a miss connection. I really feel like there was something there for us. It's like fadated that we work together. So that was like kind of a fun jumping off point. And he really didad sometime. Right? Yes, yes So it did, it was a good kind of jumping off point. Did he tell you about the dream that he had prior to him being voted out You know what, I don't remember if you told me about the dream I don't. I think you would Yeah, I don't remember that. series of days felt like one very long day He didn't I mean, the other thing I would say that I did in that was I remember going up to Rizzo and Rizzo was seeing what I was seeing. like, whoa, it's like South Pacific Aussie is here. What's going on? Rizo said to me like, you need to hard sell Joe. L Joe's not bought in on this And I did. I went up to Joe and I was like, Joe Like I understand how you're approaching this game. I understand what you're afraid of this time. I'm telling you this is where game it felt like me with Ti a little bit. I'm not saying I'm the only one who voted out Ozzie for the record, but I think I played the role I needed to play. And I felt as though I had hard sold that to Joe and that did help kind of tip the scales because Joe's a very loyal guy You seem to be keenly aware of who you could beat in the end and who you couldn't beat And it seemed like that you had like the best read out of that out of anybody that was there. Were you feeling that too when you were there? Yeah, I mean, I Rob, after the Aussie vote, I it was so obvious to me who ought to go home. It had to be Devins Even Jonathan was like, I found that guy kind of annoying and now I really like him. And then of course Serei has to go. and Tiffany just like, I mean, her upward trajectory was really it was stunning to me. And I thought that I could beat the guys I was at the end with. I thought I could have beaten Rizzo. Like there was a discrepancy. Rizo's like the biggest surprise watching but not in that I felt like Rizzo was doing more than we were saying, and he was. I didn't want Rizzo next to me because his storytelling was so good and his story, he's one of those people who's gonna like whip out a secret at the end and you're like, Ohah. He's a yapper. I really thought I could those guys. I really did But it's interesting at the final seven here you are. And there's probably three people that are going to give you trouble in the final Trouble cououncil in Rick Tiffany and Serei. And these's three people that you got a pretty good shot against. Yeah I'm including Rizzo in that. Rizzo and Jonathan And Joe And the three people that are going give you problems are the three next people to go out in Rick and Stry and Tiffany Yeah. and I will say like I think that Rizzo and I saw the game similarly. I think Jonathan and I saw it similarly and then I think Joe did. I think we all needed they knew they kind of needed to go, but I also like along the way. I felt like I started like this game I would always like plant my idea for a couple of like what needed to happen a trivel or two ahead of time. I'd be like, there aren't enough pieces on the board. We need to do this or like, well, Tiffany's really kind of like coming out of nowhere. What's going on with that? So I felt like I did my part of like planting along the way where I was positioned. I mean, even to the point where I told Joe that if he won the final three, I don't think those guys would have taken me if I lost emotion. but I had been planting with Joe for a while. you know, Joe Do you really want to split boats with Jonathan at the end? Like I don't know if that's the great move for you. So I did start telling my story along the way You really seem to master the new era game and you said you had not really been watching as much over the last couple of years. G It seemed like that for where you are as a player, it really seemed like you played at the perfect time to play the type of game that you came into season fifty to play. Thank you. Yeah, I really feel like I did. I feel like that keeping those working relationships in the pocket is something I have to do every day. It's something I've learned in my work and I've learned from sururvivor about keeping that level of trust and working relationship the right place. I do work with all different kinds of people In my day to day, I can work with anyone. Like I think if I went back to thirty two now, like what would that game look like for me? Probably different. Like I know how to get along with everyone and it really did just kind of, I felt like I was very aware of my timing and trajectory within the game. and I think my meta timing and trajectory was right. And I do think like I guess Kyle said like sururvivors w in the fringes. I think it's very much one in the silences and the things you don't say in restraint And I've learned restraint over the past ten years in a world that is everybody's talking and everyone has an opinion I am more than happy to sit back and not have any of those and just let things play out. And I think like I'm not trying to downplay how anyone played in fifty. but when I have talked to people who don't really watch Survior, I said S I feel very arrogant saying this This game was actually very simple. It was letting the tyype A personalities and egos tell their story and do their thing and keeping your mouth shut Let them all fire at each other and then just duck your head. And I felt like that worked in fifty as a returning player season and then in keeping the options open and knowing what to do to have an option for any possibility in the new era That's amazing I mean, it's the new cycle thing, right? I just like shut the heck up. L maybe just be quiet Maybe we all should and then I'll see what happens. uh I don't know what that's like, but it sounds like that is very correct I mean, it doesn't make for good TV. L I am not like I know that I wasn't People are like, what is she doing? What is she I was I was often sitting back and observing. Like I will tell you, I did not Take enough baths this season. I did not leave camp I watched everything happening. I watched every Duo and trio and one on one. I knew there was more to Rizo than we saw. I paid attention and I think that I think it paid off I'll say, yeah, I think it did. I'd love to hear about how you approach the final tribal cououncil. You come off of your incredible win in someomotion and as somebody who has gone to a final tribal council and it didn't work out to have this opportunity Do it again. It must have been such a unique and maybe stressful experience to go back to fininal tribal counsel Yeah, I was u I was I real I didn't realize traumatized I was by losing until I was sitting there preparing for final tribal And it was highly stressful I thought for years about things I didn't do wr and some of those things I'd done along the way in the game, like I made a point in Jonathan and I had talked about this. He said you were very good in tribals at like kind of speaking up and then kind of blending into the background back at camp So I had made a point, like I said, planting seeds and telling my story along the way, But at the end for Fal triribal, I mean, I thought about stuff like I won some motions, so I chose who went with me I wanted to make sure I was the people that I could fight against. I can have a sparring kind of thing. I know I'm not so like warm and friendly and bubbly feeling. I'm not like raainbows and butterflies I a little more direct And something that was hard for me in ' thirty two was like Michelle is warm and friendly and everyone's just like at ease. And I wanted people that I could kind of like spar with at the end. And so I think I chose sparring partners wisely somethingomething else I thought about is I knew Joe did not want to go to fire I know he's a fireman, he didn't want to go to fire. and something I made an agreement with him. I said, I will take you to the final three, if you don't fight against me. And if you promise to give me credit for my piece of the Aussie vote And he agreed And then we saw that play out in Final tribal So like I made like little packs at the end. Yeah. I paid attention to how I was showing up. I paid attention to like how I was sitting versus the first time like, I know how to scow my face. Sorry I didn't get my botox before I went out there. I did try to pay attention to like how I was sitting. Like I remember in thirty eight, like Chris Underwood, he was my buddy. I have no shame in it now, like saying it, I'd be like sit up, sit up, like trying to show up the right way It was stressful and I tried to like understand what story people needed to hear versus like obviously like a very inner focused person. I experience things deeply, but I wanted to give people the information they needed to like make the decision in the moment and I feel like I did that good enough We you surprised by any vote that you got? I will tell you Christian Devinon and Emily, I really didn't know I really didn't know. They told us they weren't telling anybody. they didn't. they were amazing. I really thought for a long time that Devons had gone to Jonathan Devins and Jonathan have a really good rapport. I love Devins, but I also could see how he could have been hurt by me in the game that like he, in my mind had given me the idol. He's saved me with his performance And then I was just like ready to vote him out. I could see how he could have been like, hell no And then like Christian's just like a very like thoughtful player. and I Jonathan definitely had that more like dominant kind of resume style of showing his game and I was more, I mean, I know I mean, you could say no agency, Chrisy. but I knew mine was more about the smaller moves and the restraint and letting others step forward and jump off the cliff in front of me. And that can be kind of a harder story to tell. So I wasn't sure, Rob I wasn't short But I was pretty confident in the other five It was an interesting final trial with councsel where it seemed like that some of the debate that was happening wasn't so much from the people that were in the final three, but among the jurors themselves Rob, there could be another story about the inner workings of Survivor fifty. I still don't understand all the dynamics on this cast. I really don't. I really don't They really, really don't. It was an interesting cast And I will say the one other thing is I was very aware of in that group of people, like they're the heroes of their own stories, of course. And You had said something that I then borrowed, which I think you said it is when Jonathan asked you what he could have done differently. It was they have to be serervice to the jury you do. It's almost like you're doing volunteer work at the end of like, this is the capstone of the season Are you getting an experience by choosing this winner who will validate you in your experience