Reflecting on Career and Perspective

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Alright, sit back, relax, and enjoy another wonderful episode of whatever shitting podcast you have downloaded. The O817 leaves is the same. Oh mate! Come on, Josh! I'm right behind you Is smoking effect in your day-to-day? Every cigarette takes up to 20 minutes off your life. But fear not, the power to quit is in your hands. Introducing the Free NHS Personal Quit Plan with a quit date planner and advice on managing your cravings. Search smoke free for your free plan and get the power today . Hello, welcome to another studio Rahalus for the podcast room. Uh no stand-up guys, you'll be glad to hear so we're straight into it. My guest this week is probably best known for his appearance as an audience member on Dancing on Ice. Oh my. Which is in your IMDB ice. I actually really randomly went on my IMDB the other day and was like , I can't. I think it's near the top as well. Audience member Let me tell everyone who you are. Sorry. Stephen Bailey. Tell why why is that why it must be more than you No, I really I did celebrity coach trip. The story gets worse really. I did cele brity coach trip and one of the girls who was on coach trip with us was in it and was like, Oh come and support us, come and support us. And we got there and then it was like you were in the audience, but I didn't get a credit It was so I didn't even get to meet Holly Willoughby. How do I get a credit? Didn't they talk to you in the audience? No just there. I did wear a nice pink suit, just in case. Oh good. Was it fun to watch dancing on the case? No, it was incredibly du bored. I've never I've never watched it on TV either, dancing on my ended. Oh yeah. Yeah, I think it was um I think it had its moment. Yes. Also, it's really hard 'cause at least with something like you have to learn how to ice skate and dance. Like at least with something like strictly you go, it is feasible for us all learn how to how to dance. Ice skating It's too much I'd think I might have been asked to do it once and I just but I ha actually have a fear of ice skating. I could do it when I was a teenager. I could do it a bit. Uh but I had a I had a dream where I was w stabbed on the escalator up to the Bristol ice rink and then I was no But also when I've my wife's made me go ice skating a couple of times and I literally could not even walk round the edge without being terrified. I've never actually that's to lie, I did actually go in audition for it once, you know, or whatever they do. And I just held the man that pulls you around and then I was like the s something like the sun announced that I was doing it and I was like, you can tell you're on the outside because even I know this isn't going ahead . Which of your many uh which of your many credits would you have chosen for your best known as ironic best known as Stephen Belly? Because there's quite there's quite a there's quite a lot of good, best known for from my point of view for you. Oh no. Here another one I was gonna do, which we will probably will talk about 'cause I think this is our way into your career. Okay. Your de production secretary on the right stuff. Yeah, that was uh that's a good credit. That is a good one. At least that one was a job. At least I was getting paid audience member. Have you ever had anyone have that? I've never done a lot of it. I've never seen that on IMDB and I assumed there would be some reason that's like a such that's an insane fan has put that on the show. It really sums up my It really it really I'll tell you another one I thought you might have come up with. Um but I it's not an IMDB. I did host the Gemma Collins live talk. Right, wow. That was a moment. Well you uh what I like about you, I mean um I I think um as a stand up you're you've you're you've got good stand up but you're very good at the at the banter and the chatting with the audience. And well and a lot of it is that right, but you 're excellent at it, which some people are not good good. Thank you. But but also your your light entertainment career is very much within that world, isn't it? It is. I mean and it's it's one of those tricky things because I love light entertainment. I got into people always say who's your favourite comedian? I say, I don't actually have one, I don't like comedy, which is true. But I loved Holly Willoughby and I wanted to be a presenter, but I was also aware that I didn't have that face. I don't have that face. She's a very bees face, but no. But I mean it's not I don't have Joel Dom. It's absolutely I'm not getting that so I thought well at least if I'm funny that'll open stuff up. And then the thing was, like I said, didp celebrity coach tri, which I was a fan of that show anyway, like as Coach Trip. But the issue is now it's sort of like when you go, Can I be on QI? They're like Alright Good one . That's the funniest thing you said . But so you got ha you got into comedy by through was it through doing the right so you were sort of interested in getting into TV? I had a master plan. Yeah. Right. So my master plan was I actually wanted to be a presenter and so I was like, How I thought Holly Willoughby when she was doing the extra factor . Um do you m do you remember the extra factor? The spirit I do yeah. So I thought she was living the best life. And I was like, Oh my god, she gets to go behind the scenes, she gets to meet all the judges, she's probably best friends with Cheryl and Danny. This is what I wanna do. So I was like researching her and they were like and it was like, Oh, she worked on a reception desk somewhere at like tiger aspect or whatever. I don't know if that's true. Um so I was like, I'll just work on a reception desk. And I kept reading this thing about runners, runners and I was like, I don't know what that is, but I could do that. Um and I didn't know production companies existed, I didn't know anything. So I just thought like any show on IT V was made by IT V. So I wrote to the head of every channel and it was the head of channel five that wrote back. Right. And that's how I got on the right stuff. About that era was when I was on the right stuff a few times. Did you was were you ever working when I was Oh we didn't cross paths. I met people I met Russell Kane. Nice, yeah. He was doing it. Um I can't remember any of the comedians at the time that were doing it. Russell Kane was definitely on it. Angelica Bell. Oh yes, nice. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's a it's a certain level of again celebrity that goes on the right stuff. Yeah. Although even I couldn't get on that once I'd segueed into it. I got onto it when it became Jeremy Bowie. Right, oh uh yeah, it's not it's not the same. Not the same Can you believe this? So uh I'm very trashy. I'm trying to rebrand as highbrow. Well, that's good. I th I've all I think the I have a feeling you always will be yourself. That's my but also there's r look, I th I actually think the kind of stuff you do is the is one of the hardest genres of comedy, right? Really? Well I think yeah you know like the sort of I mean it's sort of camp, isn't it, in like as a broad description which I don't like but sort of that's slightly bitchy but likeable. Yes. And I think it's really hard, and I think a lot of people don't get it right. I do feel like, especially with like sort of what we I suppose we call it roasting now or whatever. Um I I always think about it, if I bring up Coronation Street references where you know what I'm talking about. like a Tracy Barlow, do you know like a tart with a heart? Like because she kills people and is awful and sleeps with people and tries to s like convince you that her baby is Roy Croppers and we, love Roy Cropper. And you can't survive that show for so many years unless we love you as well and love you. And that's how I always try and do the comedy where you go, I want to say what's on everyone's mind. But you have to say it with a smile You do, and it's a very, very difficult I honestly think it's it's such a difficult line to tread. I mean it's sort of it's the comedian a line that all comedians have to tread on some degree. Yeah. Because you're always going, if I say this, will it be too much or will it be okay? Uh but it but there has to be I mean Barry Cryer was used to say that it's not the material, it's whether you like the person Yeah. So like a different person doing the same joke you could be cancelled immediately. But if you like the person they can sort of say anything. Yeah, I think that is true. I was saying to my boyfriend the other day, I was like, I they're making it a bit too easy sometimes the audience because I now an I roll gets almost like an applause. Like how God I'm not doing that. Like and you could there's not much to that. Even I feel like that. But they're really they find it funny. Or like um the other day I called someone a dipshit. Like that was my heckler's response. It's not even articulate. I just went, shut up, dick shit and they applauded and I was like you're dumbing me down Well no but that me you know again it means your audience has got you and is there. And you know, and and that's the prize you get for having done comedy for fifteen, twenty years or whatever that you know, y your your audience understands you and gets you. And that's yeah. That's the prize for the early gigs where maybe things So look you're working on the right stuff is this true that like people said you're so funny you should do stand up and you're not inter ested in I'm really not interested in stand up which I know is unusual to say considering I've done it for fifteen years now . But yeah, someone was like because I kept going, I want to be a presenter, I want to be a presenter. And someone said to me, You're really funny, you should do stand up. And my response was be like, uh you do fucking stand up. I'm not doing that. And I sort of percolated on it for a year. Yeah. And then I did do it. Yeah. So how were those early those early gigs? It was a nightmare. It you probably should study stand up or be into it if you're gonna do it. I did it and my first one was incredible. Okay. And you've been to see any stand up in the interval where you just you know, you just thought I'm gonna go on and this is what I think stand up is that's interesting. I spoke about my um I live with my housemate at the time, she's still a really good friend of mine and she was having a great time with a variety of people let's say and so I just really spoke about that and people were howling but my first gig was in sort of a room in a puppet only So it almost felt like that. Do you know like you had like a really good anecdote at a house party? It felt like that. And then my next gig was at Up the creek, which obviously a prestigious comedy venue in London. I died on my hold because I was like , Oh, it wasn't enough to be charming, and also I didn't even know what it was like to be stood in a spotlight. Right. So I was like, this light is very bright. And were you talking about that? Did they tell the audience that was a big thing that and then uh it was a disaster for the first year. But I saw I did but I did work it out and um what was really good was I did have a few comedians that said to me, You're really funny as yourself, so you should start your material truthfully record it and then cut out the bits that aren't funny and then there's your bit of material. Right. And I think it's interesting how many comedians will tell you they had a great first gig and a terrible second gig. Yeah. And like if it was the other way around, you probably wouldn't have done the second if you'd started out the creek, you probably wouldn't have gone back again. No, I'd be running the right stuff now. I would not have gone back ever again. I mean sometimes I feel like that now, not 'cause I've like bombed, but ' itcause's like I don't want to be in Coventry on a Saturday. I still have friends. Well he have a social life then that it is a problem. I was always just very low a lonely man for most of my life and so the moving around the country was like the littlest hobo was fine. No, you weren't a little hobo . Although I do think some male comedians are what is going on with them? I normally take a gang of girls that I worked at Sainsbury's with to a gig. So if we were in Leeds and then we'd be like, should we get a hotel and go out? Like I turned it into fun for the first few years. Uh so but you know, like and then I mean uh understandably you've sort of taken that and then been snapped up by I want to say ITV three. That's where that's where I wish they'd snap me up. I wish. And there have been many other things apart from that. But it is that is it's really interesting I think the avenues to p for people to go into at all as a comedian. Like even people who think I'm a I'm you know, QI stand up comedian or whatever or I'm writing this, I'm doing this. Yeah. It's so hard to get anything on T V to get into anything. And you A you've done very well. You've got lots of uh lots of different kinds of work. But it is it's interesting where what it's interesting like Saturday Saturday Night Live just started in the UK obviously as we're recording this. And that feels like the first new show I mean it's not even a new show but it 'cause it is new to us. It feels like exciting. It feels like the first time you've seen a show with a load of people you've never seen before, unless you're a comedians comedian so you know some of them. But even I d there's a lot of them I go It was excellent. It was a great and it was a really great first stab at it, but also you go, Oh, there's some great people and thank God it isn't just What I hope it does now is open people just to be like oh well we could try that like I thought uh uh from from my world, I thought it was unusual when say Joel Domit went into the jungle because normally it's a household name that you've definitely heard of or, they're at least um consist like they've got their own radio show with us on all the time, and so if you're a radio fan, you'd know them. And Joel hadn't done loads on telly, but was brilliant and charming and gorgeous . And it worked so fantastically. Um, as a viewer of the jungle, I thought it really adds in having someone that's sort of like on the outside, but in. Yeah, yeah. And then obviously it's changed his career coming out. And then they just continue to never do that again. I was like, have you not learned anything? Like this was a genius move on your part. Because he was he'd done enough stand-up for years where you go he he knows how to entertain, which you still are doing even in a reality show. So then he knew how to run with it when he had the opportunity. So I thought and that's how I feel with SNL is like none of these people are like new, new they're just new to the world. We've known some of them. Like I've known Larry Dean for like fifteen years. Um and so it's exciting and you go, I hope now it people have really enjoyed it, which they seem to have. Yeah. People go, Oh well why don't we try that unusual choice? So what if we I suppose that's my pitch of getting on QR. I was watching the second series of last one la Laughing, which I really liked. Yes. They'll have one or two slightly newer people, but that'll be Harriet Kelmsley or someone like that, the newer people that uh Amy Holland. Yeah, not Amy H Amy Led Gledels. Glade H amy Glade who I love, so sorry forget your name. Amy But you know, the that's that'll be new to people on TV but mainly it's just the people really established. And then to go from that to watching something with that all these new faces, it was like, Oh wow, this is like really great. I mean I think that just probably comes along every now and again where you get a new gang of people who then s gradually replace and then in five years' time those people will just be on all the time. Because those people will bring people through as well, which is well, it's not that exciting for me. I don't know any of them very well. But would you do Last One Laughing? 'cause you're a giggler. I've I don't think I could do it. I mean I don't I really don't think I if I was on it it's interesting I we start I start rewatching the first series because my daughter started watching the second series and loved it, so I'm watching the first series with her. Yeah. And the first series, they're laughing all the time. In the second series, no one's been you know, there's three episodes and no one's out. Spoiler alert, but no one's out. But like people got knocked out really quickly. And even Bob Mortimer laughed really quickly in the in the first series. And it's sort of better for that actually. It's better that they're getting caught out. I think you can sort of pr force yourself not to laugh, but yeah I I I'm a social laugh. A I like comedy but also I'm a nervous I have no sense of humour. I really don't or I do this, I'll go oh that's funny. But I will never laugh. Yeah, yeah. So you'd be great on it. I would or terrible. It depends how you like it as an audience because I think it's funny when you like Judy Love trying to swallow the laugh. Yeah. That I think's funnier. It is funny. But I'll sit in bed and my boyfriend go, that's funny, sh is swallowing a laugh. Like but I won't be like laughing at it. I can't laugh. It's it's something. I like it. I like the fact that you you have despised comedy and are a comedian. Have you had comedians on here that are like oh I'm not really a comedian? I think I guess I have but not that many. I mean that that's and it's interesting to me that that's and I don't think it's a bad thing because I think it makes you that that way in makes you immediately a very interesting comedian 'cause most people go, all right, I've seen Stuart Lee and I've seen so I'm gonna do sort of the Stuart Lee routine. The n everyone go, That's a bit like Stuart Lee. Whereas imagine you going on it's kind of maybe informed by a couple of light entertainment figures, but not probably not. When I write a new show, I do two things. I take my girls who I work with Sainsbury's out for dinner and I take my gaze out for dinner and for once I don't talk and I'm like, go and I literally am writing lines down. Like one of the best lines in my old show was 'cause um a gay friend of mine said to me that he was like I tried to have sex for woman once but I couldn't a fanny up my bum and I was like it goes in like that. So I just rub at real people's lines. But it sort of reminds me of that Carolina Hearn thing, I suppose, or like a Lily Savage, where it's like it's just how people speak. Yeah. Yeah. But that's it. But that's and I think a lot and more comedians do that than you'd think. I think uh take you know, are listening out and taking stuff. But uh but I think it it just immediately makes you individual and yeah, and and you know, it can it's sort of but it's a bit samey when you talk to comedians about their origin story 'cause a lot of them are fancy utely depending on the generation you can get the different for my generation it's like the young ones and the the previous generation it's Monty Python. And yeah and yeah you know, everyone's sort of influenced by a person. But you know because I'm for example really good friends with Sir Tony Robinson. Oh yeah. Of course I am. And uh comedians like when I when I'm like he's on my story or when he came to my tour show and comedians are like, oh my god, it's Pauldrick, it's Pauldrick and I was like, I don't know who that is. It's Tony from Time Team. That's my reference. Or Maid Marion. Yeah, maybe. Like that's the one. And um So even that's funny. How did you become friends with Tony Robbins? We're we're in a Channel V show together. So what was your bit in T V terms, what was the the the big break that took you? Was it was coach trip the first thing or was there something ? I think it was. Um I used to do now here's a story. I used Zoe Bowl used to have an ITV breakfast show on a Saturday morning, and they got me on to be sort of like here's the memes of the week or a bit of a I always say like I was her cheap Ryland, like how what Ryland did on this morning I did on that and I only got that because my agent at the time had heard about the show and was I email and see if there anything is. And the booker, luckily for me, said my name out loud in the office. And this gay lad had seen me the night before and was like, we should give this a go. Oh man. Like he was so funny. And then I did the first episode and they were like, It will only be one episode, you will not do any more. We're gonna try loads of different people. And after the first episode they were like, Can you do every Saturday for the next year? And that's how it happened. Amazing. And then um I got a call one day directly to my phone because the exec producer who I'd written to at Channel Five and got me in at the right stuff was starting a new show, Slubs on the Farm. He saw me on Zoe Ball show when he was sat in bed having his bacon sandwich and called me and was like, I might have a job for you. So did he remember you from the letter well Yeah. And then he was like, Do you remember how you wanted to be a presenter? He went, I might have a show. It's amazing. I well I love that because I you know aga,in, that is so and if you read Shobi's autobiographies you're just there'll be something where someone's been in a gig and like tw twenty years later someone goes, Oh there was that guy put him in this but that's just so brilliant. The kind of just the the luck of the the guy in room going, yeah, we should give him a mad . Because I think it's mad that he ever wrote back to me because I literally had no experience, no sort of oh I've been trying to get in TV for years. I was just like I,'m graduating, I love Holly Willoughby. Like nowadays, all the things we know from being in the beers that you wouldn't say, like you wouldn't go, I just love this show. Um you wouldn't say, you'd be like, I've been work ing on this for ages, I'm a I'm a big fan of true crime or whatever it is. And um I was just like, Yeah, love Holly Willoughby, like I think so I was lucky anyone ever wrote back. But I think it does it. I I wrote a letter to Radio for when I first left university and going like it's impossible to how do you do this, how do you get on stuff it's impossible to know anyone and then uh Harry Thompson actually wrote back who was the head of the com radio comedy at that point wrote back to me and he there was a guy working on weekending and literally he was went Bill Matthews went on to create a lot of the the big uh panel shows actually. He was at school he was my brother's best friend at school but they were just in a comprehensive school in Somerset So he knew he worked out who I was, which was sort of embarrassing. But then you had that little connection which was so weird because it wasn't like uh Oh we were together. It wasn't together. Yeah. It wasn't like we're Oxford together, it was just I I know your know this bloke who's your brother play cricket with and uh but no you know so you know he answered all my stuff very patiently. But I think that but I'd written a long letter going, Oh it's impossible like you do when you s when you start out. I still do it. I still do it. I write to people directly and be like, come and see the show and then judge me for being trash. Don't judge me because I did a show called Celebs on the Farm. Which was a hit for four years, I'll be back. Well yeah, well tell me about Celebs the of the Five. So you're just are you the just the voiceover on No I hosted it. I was the on camera host. Right, yeah, yeah. So I didn't I d I didn't it wasn't the what it wasn't I don't think it's your fan. It isn't my thing. I don't really Are you a fan of Kerry Kotona? I mean you know I've heard of Carrie Catona, which I think w would be not the case. Caprice. I know Caprice. I've actually met Caprice, came to see talking. Paul Merson. And I've just done a job with Paul Merson. He's lovely. Yeah, so you know I'm slightly edge. So I've uh the one I can talk about is a bake off which I've just done but he's not on, but I did another I did another sim similar thing to that which was coming out sometime this year. Oh I think that's the poor Mercen was on V Time. I just when you say bake up I won't say but I will say after this. I think I've got it. It's so my vibe. We'll see. But anyway, but yeah, it's uh what I love about the it's really interesting doing them occasionally. Yeah. Because I mean I happen to I think I did know who everyone was on the thing I just did. On the on the bake off I did not know, and it was Jojo Sihwa. Oh yeah. And uh Moll Molly May Haig. I know who those people were and I didn't know. It's wasted on you. This is what annoys me about Backuff. At least I know who everyone is. And Babaton do who I do did know, at least know who he was. I don't think I'd met him before. But it was like oh that's a bit disappointing. They're they're not very big stars you go worldwide Yeah yeah yeah oh my god JoJo Sewa you have no idea. So everyone's ki everyone's daughters is going, What you've met Jojo Sewa. So yeah, so I it's not quite my world, but it's I find it really fascinating to especially when you do Yeah, it was like only like two and a half weeks. And it's and you you know, you bond with these people and then you'd sort of never see them again really. No, I do. I really do. Are you Paul Mercen gonna be We're not Paul Mercen? I did love Paul. I think it was probably more you Paul than me, actually. But it's I I do pick up people like one of my best friends is Sally Lindsay. Right. And we met on Would I Lied To You. Right. I do some highbrow stuff. I Lied I've never done that. I'd love to do Would I Light To I know. Have you done QI? No.. You've not done QI I'm so surprised you've not done QI. Even after all the Taskmaster stuff. Nothing no not a t I mean to I look took me ages to get on anything. I did a brief period in about twenty ten where I because of the podcast, I got invited on to think have I got news for you and but Buzzcocks for the first time. So I had a br I had about two or three years where I was getting onto those things. And that don't happen. It just just I am shocked about QI. You'd be so perfect for QI. That's what the ki the QI elves who are you know do would uh they uh no such thing as a fish podcast they yeah we uh we we suggest I must have pissed I think that someone I pissed someone off some at some point. I think that about my entire career. No, I don't know who it is. But it's someone who is very central to booking a lot of these shows, I think 'cause I'm gonna find out. I will make it my mission. I'm very sorry. Whoever it was, I'm sorry whatever I did. I was drunk a lot in the night does it could be that sometimes I do worry that I've done that. You know when you've been really drunk at a festival you're like do you know I think you could improve telly. That's what I do. Do you know what's happening is you forget about the viewer. I really tell them they forget about the viewer a lot. They think I'm too crude. Yeah. But it needs a couple of minutes. I rein it in all the time. I mean I said did Zoe Ball's show and I never spoke about Willie's or foo foo's on there . Um it's so funny, but it's funny I think sometimes my 'cause obviously every comedian wants to do Taskmaster. Yeah . I would obviously not I'm I'm gonna turn Taskmaster out, no. I just am always like but where they're all g trying to befriend Greg and Alex because audience members always say, Why don't you go, why don't you just make friends with Greg and beyond Taskmaster? And I was like, Oh yeah, because we travel in the same circles. But I always have my eye on Cory . Right I'm like, now that is something I'm regularly trying to manipulate and I have so many friends that are in the show because I made them be my friends. Dresser of the year awards back. Well I was like but you could go in and this character could be like I swear I bit hosted something round here before, and that's how you do it. Then you get in a relationship with Anthony Cotton's character, and then I'll get killed by a tram on the fiftieth anniversary. And that'll take me right to retirement, baby . That's all I'm about at this point. So the Coronation Street they ha do they they don't do like 'cause like with with the sci-fi things there's all these conventions you can go to. Does is there conven is there a lifetime's working isn't the conventions no but ing open fates, supermarkets. Do you know what though? I think what I would just do is I would do that and then I'd go and perform a stand up in nice little areas in Manchester in little working men's club where they still watch Cory and I think I've just lived my best life. I really do. I'm always I you g you have no idea I slide into the series producer's DMs so much be like do you know I think Rita needs a nice young gay friend because she's sort of had now it since Norris has she then it's like, yeah, yeah, great idea. Well you know, it works though. I think that's you know in fact, you know, you just uh invited me to your SOHO show, which we'll talk about. Thank you. And then you've ended up on the podcast because I couldn't come to see the SOH. Well I was like, how do you get on these things? I am not a natural comedy book in, even though I'm hilarious. And so I'm like, I just I slide into everyone's No, it's good it's good because the worst that can happen. And I'm with I am so bad at this. And I think that's why I'm never on anything like that because I'm I'm just I can't believe whenever they do you know, whenever I'm booked on something , what if is this a mista ke you're getting Charlie Boardman? What's happening? No. So I can never quite understand why I've got booked on something. But I think like I'm not a networker and I'm not I'm not really interested in I don't I you know see I love comedy but I don't like going to parties and talking to people. Yeah. I struggle it depends on the parties. I am better at a celebrity bash than I am at a comedy one. Like I did go to a comedy Christmas do and I was like Oh, all these people are making me feel so uncomfortable. I don't know who to talk about 'cause it's I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. Sometimes I'm just like, oh, these people have been friends for like ten years. Whereas at least when I go to a celebbash, uh like uh we went to the Attitude Awards and I was sat with Denise Welch, who's a very good friend of mine. Exactly. And I was like, Den ise, there's Danny Minogue. Go and make us friends. And Denise will go, Alright. And so then you go, now I'm best friends with Danny Minogue. That's amazing. So who ha ha who's the most famous person you've become I mean Danny Minogue's pretty good. Well Danny Minogue. I don't know if we're best friends. I'm her best friend. She's doesn't follow me back on Instagram, but we did meet that night. Who is my one of my best friends I've had for ever since moving to London is Laura Whitmore. Okay. Um Ian Sterling. Um there's so many different See, but what I like about this is that as well, you're saying I go to I go out with my friends from who I worked with at Sainsbury's when you started your grid. Yeah. 'Cause what I don't like about people who become friends with just celebrities and don't you know there's a lot of certain types of people and you kinda go, Where where are your f where are your friends from the old days and why are you friends with Elton John? It's so funny you say that 'cause I'm I am suspicious when I'm like, You have no friends from home. Yeah. I find it mad. Like how much do you want sort of fame and fortune? And then what happens when it all goes tits up, as it has done recently for someone who is very like that, and then you know, you get excluded from You get excluded from all those celebrity things and where are the where are the friends ? Where'd you go? Because I had a beautiful moment. So I just finished filming um Russell T. Davis's new show. And this th the leads in the show are Alan Cumming and David Morrissey. And they came to my last tour show in November in Manchester. And first of all, the fact that they actually showed up I thought I think good people sho w up. So and I had this beautiful moment where I had one of my best friends, who I live five doors down from now, still in Manchester, Joe, um who I met from Sainsbury's, there was a moment where her and Alan Cumming with a Hollywood Star of Fame thing are doing a shot together. And I was like, this is what I wanted. So it's both the worlds colliding. And it was so it was such a surreal moment. Thank God I was shit faced. I think I might have had an existential crisis. I haven't met Alan. I've known David Morris who think he's a is a great guy. Yeah. But I just wonder if when Alaning Cumm is ejaculating, does he shout Alan Cumming? Could you ask him next time? I'll do a voice note and ask him. Yeah. I will. I will. I will. I hope he does. Yeah. He should. He should. If I was Alan Cumming, I would do that just for the value. Just for the value. I would lean into everything. I'm always mad that Bailey's have never offered me a branding deal. It it's it's gotta happen. Well, you know, it's sort of w that's those branding deals are so weird. I like you know, there's things that I hit. Yeah. Like Sil I've talked so much about Soleros and 'cause a I eat a Solero a day. Deal I stopped eating Soleros for charity for a month last year, did a big thing about it. Did they give you they no Haven't even been in touch. Tight that. Yeah. They could give you a mum's. That's tight. I mean what's that gonna cost Solero that we mentioned we mentioned them again. Baileys and Soleros. They should do a Bailey Solero, that would be we could come together. Imagine that. There you go. We could show it. Stephen and Richard coming . I um I always think that 'cause I have a bit in my show about Ferrero Rocha. Yeah, I did Yeah, I've got a boutique. No, nothing. Exactly the same. Especially now it's like eight pounds for the small box. I'm not paying it. Exactly the same. I had a m the and for ages I did this routine bat and it's a massive routine about Frere m about my wife wanting to build pyramid Frere Russia. Um and me giving a double every yeah every Valentine's Day so I've got bo millions of Frere Russia. And it went no and I did it for years and absolutely not nothing from Freroche Whoever is on QI and won't book up even bus is also in charge of the advertising accounts. I always say that would be like my issue sometimes I go Okay, well if you book everyone for the right show as I wouldn't mind but I think as a T V fan I know your top secret show Is it about food? Oh no. You don't know . You said it was like bake off. No, it is like bake off. It's bake off adjacent. We can't talk about itself and I don't know what I don't think anyone's gonna be like amazingly surprised and like to be honest I've talked about who else is in it 'cause I've now said Paul Mercen's in it, Fatia Algori's in it 'cause we talked about it when I interviewed her, we talked about it without talking about it. Um Denise Van Outen's in it. It's you know, so I think I've said all of those people. So I don't think it's gonna be when it comes out and think people are going, Oh my God, it's those people in this I'll tell you after. Okay, perfect. I'll tell you after things like that kill me. I hate a secret. I hate having to keep it 'cause it's s it's one of the 'cause also 'cause I write a blog every day and I had a month where I couldn't write about what I was doing and it was really interesting as well. It was like it was like a real different thing I was doing and I I found it quite interesting. And I wasn't you know I had to think of something else. And you're they're in there six o'clock till six o'clock and then you go back to the hotel and go to sleep. Oh and you think what the hell am I gonna write about in my blog if I can't write about the show I'm doing. Um morning babes. Morning love. Fancy fancy uh cup of tea. Want to quit smoking? Fear not. The power to quit is in your hands . Introducing the Free NHS Personal Quit Plan. With a quit date planner and advice on managing your cravings, you're more likely to quit with the right help. Search smoke-free for your free plan and get the power today. Construction shapes our communities. It's why the industry's most innovative companies trust ProCor as the leading technology partner for every stage of construction. We know that anything is possible when we build together. Learn more at Procore.com So you've done you've sort of doing quite a bit of acting or bits and pieces of acting. I'm trying to do more. I always wanted to be an actor but we just didn't know well first of all I'm from like you know when people say they're working class in this job and then they're not. Yeah. They just have a regional accent. I'm proper and um so it's like we didn't I I was raised without you've got to have a proper job, you've got to have a proper job, you've got to have a proper job. And then it was sort of like there was so no money and then mm like local drama school's not gonna cut it in Denton. So I just sort of never did it and then as I was building my profile I just made sure I was saying to people like why was it to an actor? And then um as I was earning money I took myself to acting school now I could afford Yes. And so now I can act 'cause as well, do you know sometimes when you watch comedians and you go they've just gone, oh they'll be good at this. Yeah, yeah. And then they're not. Yeah. I thought I don't want to be that 'cause I judge people so I can't then be judged in a similar thing. So where did you go? Where did you go to drama school? Manchester School of Africa. Right. Fantastic. I was like, if it's good enough for Saran Jones, it's good enough for me. Yeah. And how long was that caught? Is that like a year course or something? So I I did one on one session. Right, okay, cool. Yeah. And it was excellent. Yeah, yeah, well that's good. But you know, to get in a Russell T. Davis thing is astonishing, right? Yeah. I remember being like when I got the tape through, I was like Oh my gosh. And as well when I read the character I thought he's me. Right. So if I don't get this, I'm that person I've just been speaking about. So I probably But I was really, really, really thrilled. So yeah, I and I I love the actor, I loved in the character. I'm in Sally Lindsay's show as well, the Madame Blanc mysteries . And what I love about that is I'm a gangster criminal . Like they've not just gone down there . Yeah. Like I only get seen for gay roles. Not with Sally. I'm rough and reggie. Yes. It is I did a fighting scene last year. It was incredible. It was a bit mad, and the guy I was beating up was so hot . I was like, oh my gosh . Yes. You're quite flirtatious within your with in your actor, like I've certain certainly talked to heard you talking about like in the early days. Yeah. You would literally just kind of home in on someone you quite fancied in the audience. I will say this though, I don't do it as a shtick. Like if I don't fancy anyone in the audience, it doesn't happen. It only happens when I genuinely think bloody hell. I had it on um Saturday where we were do I was doing top secret comedy cup and there was this most beautiful man he was called Estevan. Oh nice. And I was uh I couldn't I couldn't focus. So then it's just easier to bring him in. And I've been in a monogamous relationship for seven years. I'm ready for an affair with an Estevan. Estevan he's the Spanish me. That's nice. It's interesting 'cause if I I mean especially if I did it 'cause I'm a horrible old disgusting man now, so if I did it it would be horrible. But if if a straight man did that now . I mean but it's in because like when I started if a s that was the kind you know, lots of people people people would would do that. Yeah. But I think again it is it you know, it's interesting because it is a di it is different and it's about the person doing it rather than you know and the And I think it's like how you're doing it. Like I never come off stage, I never touch them, I never say anything. I Like I will say like your heart and be very open about that. But then I'd be like, if we had a date, what would the date be like? Like I'm not like here's my fist sit on it. Do you know what I mean? That was the problem I was making with my stand ups. Listen. It got you on bake off. It got you on Tasmaster. That's why they weren't having that's the trailer why we're not on QI . So I saw you th I think this is in your show real and this I think was the Zoe Ball show. You're dressed in a uh a wedding dress. Yes , because they had do you know a um a musician called Callum Scott. I mean I've heard of the musician was there was it as reality TV kind of guy. I think you won. Oh de he definitely got to the final. Um but this was before I'd even entered the industry. So this is when when I was sat at home watching it in Denton, da da da me and my friends and then I was like, oh my god, I am meeting Callum Scott and I was in love with him. He has no idea. And so they were like, Well, how would you feel about going out in a wedding dress? And I was like, I know it's gonna stop a lot of booking opportunities, but if I marry Carrie, I marry him Callum Scott, this is going to turn out great for me. Yeah. And it it So did they meant did Zoe Ball officially marry you in on TV? Well he didn't he didn't get married to me. But we had we He looked so nice in the wedding dress, I'm sure he could have come around. That's very uh old fashioned of a it's fine to have you have hair if you want to have it. Thank you. Let's g less br let's mention the Soho Theatre show that I can't come and say 'cause I'm playing Frank in educating Rita the Queen Mother Theatre in Hitchin. It's a big it's a big gig. And you're doing your own accent. I listened to you on Kate Thornton's podcast. Yeah. I love that podcast as well as this podcast. No, thank you. Yeah, she's yeah, it was good fun actually doing Kate. Yeah, so yes, I'm being just me, I'm not doing a liver pudlingd accent, thankfully. I think that's better. I know I people get up their nose when I have this opinion. But I feel like especially when something is set in the UK and we talk about so often how rich ly diverse the UK is and that's what makes us so brilliant is how diverse we are. So then sometimes like why are you so hung up on an accent when we're doing a show here? Yeah yeah. Like it doesn't matter, does it? I don't think it do doesnes' matter. Itt matter. But what let's talk about your show. So it's cool. I mean you've had some good names in your show . Oh no. And they uh Tart Tart is the current show, yes. Yeah. Why did you decide on uh on Tart? Um one it, was my bake off plug. Okay. Um two , I thought do you know what it was? Is someone said to me last year, they said the problem with northerners is and I was like, Oh I love where this is going. And they said the problem with Norban is is you use a lot less words than we do to make your point so it sounds harsher. So then I was thinking so I talked about that in the show, so then I was like, How how can I say it? I was like, well they're trying to say we have like a tart reply, don't we? So then I called it that. But then because of like you say, 'cause I hit on all these men, everyone thinks I'm using a derogatory word for like Yeah. But that but then that's okay. But it also does work for that. It does work for that. Just in case there's a very attractive man in the front row. Um because I would say with people not with people, what I love about audiences, because people assume I have a very sort of gay, heavy audience. I actually don't. I have a really middle -aged sort of working class straight coupled audience, like people that have not seen me live and then come and see me, in particular producers or celebs or whoever, they always go There's a lot of like it's like a tele audience, isn't it and I said, Yeah, the my audience and I tell them to their faces so I have no qualms tell you. I go, It looks like you've all done a mad dash through Matalan . That's that's I think it's because they get the stories, they get the cheekiness, they get the naughtiness, but they sort of know it us all from a good place. Do you know and it's that I made a rule especially post COVID where I was like I'm not talking politics in my stand up because I just think if people are coming on a Saturday night with a drink , they come to just hear the dick jokes, I think, because everything's dead hard. Yeah. So I thought, let's just talk about hard penises. I know. I know. We're very similar in many ways. When people say who you similar to, like you get the odd like basic person that's like Alan Khan, I'm like, no, Richard Heron. Me and Richard. You know, we're very much obsessed with Cox. That's exactly what I'm less hand s on experience. I've got a lot of hands on experience with one of them. But I've got less hands hands on experience with the others. I always bring things to the glutzah. That's my goodness. think the you know, I love that Vis Profanosaurus. I think it's like poetry, you know, the and the jokes in the Vis Profanosaurus which is just, you know Have you seen my face gone blank? You're not know what it is. No, you've got to you've got it's literally just like I mean I and now I've got to think of an example, but basically it's definitions of about five things, but there's about a billion of them, you know. So for one I've got in was the naughty Nazi salute for an erection. It was a naughty Nazi salute. That kind of thing. But it's very p it's very poetic. It's poetry of the gutter. But but like 'cause it's of so few actual things, you've got to be so imaginative to get it. And I think I feel that with comedians. I mean obviously there are comedians who do, you know, hack jokes about genitals. But I think like if you're choosing a subject that lots of people are doing, you've got to have really good material about it for it to for it to split. Well I always say as well, actually, because I joke and say I do a lot of dick jokes, but actually I don't like none of my jokes are actually about sex. Like they'll be dirty jokes. Yes. Um so it might be like about when I dated, or like nowadays it's almost because I've been my boyfriend for seven years. I'm over sex. So that's what I talk about. So I think that's as well what the married couples are relating to. Is going like, Oh my god, I'm so bored of him. I'm plotting his death. That's what we talk about in it. So I think sometimes it is that sort of I mean I don't want to be so bold, but that's sort of Lily Savage thing, do you know where it's like if if a husband or wife could say exactly what they're thinking, I think it's like that because I was like because when people say I'm rude, I'm like I am rude, don't get me wrong. But I don't think I'm as rude as you think I am. I think I have some really rude things, or it'll be other things people say to how rude can I go on this? As rude as you like. Okay. So I went on holiday last year for my friend's 40th, and the dumb sausage had booked a two star hotel in Ibefa. Now the problem with that is twofold for me. One, that's where my audience goes. So I was spotted a lot when I did Aqua Zumba. And two, on the first day we met this girl, Becky, Becky with an eye, so already we're off. And um and I said to her, I was like, Becky, no one's in the pool. And she I said it's a gorgeous day. Why is no one in the pool? It makes it feel like something's going on. And she went, People don't get in till much later because at night all the reps are shagging everyone so it just looks like a boiling pan of poached eggs. So it's like I know that is rude, but you go, it's not me being rude, I'm just repeating what someone said to me. And it's po it is poetry. And it is poetry. So when you're doing a a show and you're doing an hour, is are you still are you sticking to a script? I can't imagine you are Yes, but it ends up being like an hour and twenty. Yes. So I do have the show because otherwise I go, How can you sell a different show to people every year? So it's all different material every year. But I will go off. Yeah. And I will always come back and finish the show. Yeah. But I will be um 'cause someone had said to me during a show, um what did they s like someone did my voice at me so I went off about that for half an hour and it's just like I think it's like a run in a staff room. Yeah. But I'm well dressed. Well uh it's yeah. Look and I think it's interesting you talk about that that idea I think old school stand up for all its flaws and all its mother in law jokes and all its wife jokes and what it was sort of about at the heart of it it was about the here's your boss and you've got to obey them in the week, but let's take the piss out of them now. Here's your wife or husband, you've got to be nice you know, you've got to make the relationship work, but here's Yeah. Here's the stuff that we if we can laugh about it then actually you can get through the next week and I'm a bit without killing each other. Yeah, but I agree with you actually. And I think this is how I think is when me and me mates go for a cavalry. Yeah. We're not talking politics. We're talking who's going out with who? Who's not been text back? Why I want to kill my boyfriend. Like and I just think why we ate the kids, da da da da da . And so I just think well I've got to talk about it. I just basically Essentially I see it as I'm getting paid to gossip. Yeah. And that's how I do it. And you know, I have high brow opinions about stuff that's going on in the world, but I feel that I don't think everyone's paying for that with me. I think it's it's i it's interesting and I think it probably is quite hard for proper satirists at the moment. 'cause it ' itcause's so you know, like you have fifteen years ago you could be talking about the government, you could be saying oh the Tories are bad or this is the Labour's bad and it wouldn't feel like the end of the world. Yeah. like I think you're right. I think the mood I mean not for everyone and ev the beauty of comedy is all of this stuff is going on . You can find the people who are doing that if that's what you're into. If you wanna go talk about Iran and nuclear war and have some jokes about it. There'll be someone who's doing that. But I think generally speaking, yeah, you we you at the moment we want to go and and laugh at stuff. Yeah. But I think I think that's a but it's such a big part of being a comedian to to make sure people are laughing. And it's whatever else you're doing, if you're not getting that part, then there's a big one. I do a bit about um do you know the shop Home Bajans? No. Home Bargains. Okay. So I call it Home Bajans. That's not the joke. I just I'm always like we're off to have my chance. Okay. And so I say it like that in my in the show. So people laugh. And it's just sort of for me you go, Oh, it's an extra punchline but that's just how I am because I don't want people to know I'm go in there instead of like waitros or M and S. I'm like, Oh my chance. Um but what's funny is in the show you always get people going Does he mean um bag? So now I've got another line in that be like, yes, yes. I'm just having we're allowed fun and that's my my point of show is going let's have an hour an hour and a half where we're just having fun. I'm a big belie I think it's why because people are the world is horrific at the minute. It's the worst in since my in my lifetime anyway, it's the worst it's ever been. And you can see it in people's anger, their frustration, their the way they respond to in an email, or the way they deal a conversation, or the fact that like, oh my God, how dare I step off the tube before you step on? Or do you know it's just like I've done the most criminal act? And so I just think, but is that because there's not a lot of joy? When you watch a lot of telly, oh that's heavy. Do you know like everything's like a comedy drama with the drama? It's like do we have to? Just what a laugh. Like, and I know it's brilliant. Everything's brilliant, everything's brilliant. That's why it's out there. But I also thought gu,ys, we need to switch off for an hour. Yeah. Like, honest to God. Last night I went to a pub quiz. I don't if I don't like Force Fun. And um so I sit there, my boyfriend loves Force Fun. So he played the game and I'm meeting the pizza. But then they did a heads and tails bit where you stood up and you put your hand on your heads or your tail. Well I bloody wouldn't it? I bloody wouldn't it? And I was like, this is that exactly sums up my vibe is I have no interest in answering questions. But I was like, do a bit of that for a bottle of rose . I mean it's uh it feels like you're I mean a lot of comedians are uh you know, uh a a sho you it's interesting when you say you didn't do any drama or stuff at school. Were you we a sh at school were you a sort of show off y kid at school, were you a comedian? No, I was really shy It'd be interesting to ask you about this actually about books 'cause I always think there's just a book in. I've still got my high school leavers book. Yeah. And every single page mentions how shy I was. I was shy or didn't talk or du da and I've messaged off people now on Facebook who come and see my show and are like I had a guy who went to school with who was well fit at school, you know, he's called Chris, I won't say his surname, so we can keep it in. And him and his wife came to my tour show in Manchester and she, who I've never met, DM'd me afterwards and was like, Oh, you might know my husband. And I said , Why didn't he come and say hi? And he was like, She was like, um , oh well we didn't want to bother you. But he can't get over how you are on stage 'cause he said you didn't talk. Right. And I was like that is true. I was like So what's do can you pinpoint where the change was in you that 'cause it it just if you'd asked me to guess I would have said okay this was uh this was a flamboyant eleven year old who was making everyone laugh. I mean I was no, I wasn't not at school. I was sort of flamboyant at home. Like no one was like Kel Saprice. But um I I felt obviously comfortable around my family, but no, I was just um I mean it was a nightmare. I had a lisp and a stammer before Gareth Gates made that famous. Um that could have been my thing, could you imagine? Um so I don't really I th I think uni for me brought me out myself because otherwise I would have just what would I have done? I wouldn't have spoken to anyone. And and also my degree is in French so I had to speak. Right. But it I was still shy. Like people really especially people that knew me back then were like this is brilliant. And I was like, it's a shame we didn't film any of it really, isn't it? Like But what would you film? We sat quietly on the corner like picking my skin. Like it was really um but I was and I was so 'cause I sometimes now get especially 'cause I think comedy is I think people think comedy's sort of like the cool grunge entertainment. And I'm like I think it's so elitist. Everyone's been to Oxbridge together or at least Durham. Durham is as trashy as we'll go. Durham Downs being in here I'm like, oh my God, people because of my accent and because I'm camp and frivolous, which I appreciate I am camp and frivolous, uh think I'm thick. And you go, No, I'm fluent in French, and I have I have a degree in French and um linguistic Yeah . But that's where we're at. No, so I was shy and I was highly academic, I did really well. It's really interesting. It's it doesn't go together and I think sometimes that blows people's like QI's minds 'cause they're like, hold on. It's just been talking about a boiling pan of poached eggs and then But that's you know but it's the you're right, it's the set you know, like it's similar I was swatty. I did I was really really into comedy, but I was very swatty and I was very s you know, I was very straight and not like sexually straight, just straight. Until I got to university and even, you know, till probably till the third year at university was I was still like a child. Uh but you know, but I knew that comedy was absolutely what I wanted to do. But it is I think yeah, when you do it's interesting how you know, w I I find it interesting when Stuart Lee fans go, Oh oh, you know, Richard Turning's no good. And you kind of go, Well you kind of go or the or they're very snotty about me, 'cause the 'cause I've done a joke about a penis or whatever. But you kinda go, you uh don't you can't really like if you like Stuart, yeah. You know, you would if you looked at my stuff properly, you would like it. Yeah. Maybe you need your stuff really explained to you, which is why you d why you like stewards. But you know, y there's a s there's a s there's a s snootiness and sort of going oh oh but he's doing jokes about this, so therefore that's this isn't this high Because I do have a thing of going like if my twenty equipment club set is dirtier because it's like but it's like if you do a club are you joking? It's there's absolutely shit faced. Sometimes it's like in a working man's cup or whatever. You just have to be like Bam Bam Bam, that's why it's like that. But sometimes when I do my hour, it's actually not that rude. I actually pinpoint the rude jokes and I move them around to go, I understand that is a rude joke. I'm not an idiot. So I s like you don't want to do it all at once. So you go, I think sometimes I have like four or five in an hour. Yeah. And I end I always end on two because the dirty jokes are the biggest laughs. They're always the biggest laughs. And that's not just personal to me. It's everyone. Like you go and see Mickey Flanagan or whatever. And um they're the biggest so I always end on them. So it's what they leave remembering. But I'm like Did you sleep for the other fifty-ivef minutes? What are you doing? It is well you know that perception is interesting. And you know, I think again you're right that it's you know it's a perception about sexuality as well. So like it's so and that's in you know, I think that in it's interesting you're talking about getting the other part where you're allowed to be something different in something and that's and that you know that take especially in these days it just takes a big leap for anyone to go What if that guy did something other than the one thing I've seen him do. Maybe he can do something else, you know. That's an admirable leap from the person I mean from Sally Lindsay, presumably, who said, Look, I know this guy can do do more than this. Well it was brilliant as well 'cause Sally's sort of like grew up on the same estate as me. But she also knows what the area's like. So she's like, he's he's hard as nails. Like I know he's camp, but he's hard as nails. And what I love about her writing is so I've done three years of that show now, never once have they mentioned my sexuality. And I think that's genius in a way, because half time people go he's g we must what else is there? What else is there? She's found three series worth to do. Um so I do think it's um clever and I'm re I'm I am genuinely like appreciative of that because of cause you have to show people and then you go, Well how do you show people unless people are allowing you to? Yeah. Um 'cause I would say it's like Tally wants you to be famous before you're famous. Yes. Yes. So then it's like, well how does that happen? Someone said to me the other day, just be an influencer. What ? What does that even mean, just be an influencer? You've got to go and live in live in Dubai . Get br get bombed I think I'm illegal in Dubai. Are you? I think so. Oh yes, I think you are, yeah, I think you are, yeah. So that would be annoying. That's how I'd get a book deal. That is how I would get my book deal. Play very straight when you get there. Could you imagine Could you imagine? I always say my acting coach Mark, he always says to me, he always goes, Your stand up is the best acting job you will ever do. Right because you're not like that. He goes, You are softer, you are shyer, you're not as sort of cutting . Um so he goes That is a character. So he refuse So when he talks about the stage that he always goes, why don't we bring him to the tape? Okay. And I'm like, What do you mean? I think we I I think we need him. Right. And I'm like, Oh it makes me feel like I've done something that I've not even realized. But I think that's that is however however similar you are to the person on stage. I think there's always there's always that. And I think like being on being and maybe we're similar in that, you know, I think like I I'm when I go onto stage I do just Lou Sanders just said it's like it's a different person because she knows me because she knows my wife, so she's sat around me when I'm being boring. Yes. And then you go on stage and I'm so sort of happy and you know, and sociable and then I'll come off stage and I'm quite reserved again. And it is and it's the me really, I mean it's a version of me. Uh but uh but yeah it's it's like it entirely different. Then and I think that's why people then get pissed off with comedians or think, Oh, I saw the comedian he was really grumpy in real life. 'Cause you go, Yeah, it's 'cause it's a person. Yeah. It's not like a fucking trick comedian. I have the actu 'cause I'm I am still sort of warm, I'm just shyer, and I'll let you have a chance to have something to say in real life. Whereas the problem with that is people start telling me about their sex cap ades, and I'm like, oh no, you're misunderstood. Tell him that. Tell him that. Don't tell me. Tell him on the stage under the spotlight in hair and makeup. Don't tell me. I don't want to know. And people will really be like I mean I can't even some of it I I even even I''mm clutching my pearls that I am it's um But that's a nice thing as well. That's when if people have kind of bought into what you're doing and feel that comfortable with you. Yeah. Uh you know, it's a lefty 'cause I've just done a show about cancer so, you know which I welcome people coming to talk to me about and it's fine. But like you do get like a lot and some of it's pretty harrowing stuff some it's people who some of it's people who've lost people to cancer, some of it's people who've got through cancer, some it's people who are uh dying of cancer , you know, like you've you've just been on and done your stupid thing about having a minimal cancer and surviving it. And then you know, and they're appreciative and it's all great and it's fine, but it's like it's that's a lot to How'd you process that? thing is people feel they don't can't talk about it. So I think if you're in that situation and then it I I think talking about all the any of this stuff, yeah. Any of the things that we all have to go through whatever our chosen fe's choice choices or or however life's turned out is is that we most people don't get a chance to talk about it in the way that you and I do. Yeah. And I think when they see you talking about it and then they come and they want to talk about it, I think it's so helpful. It helped me so much to just be able to get through this by expressing my fears and ex and joking about it. Um so I so it's it's fine, but it's yeah, I mean it's a lot just in terms of those really sad ones. 'Cause you do feel the empathy for it and and they there's an empathy coming from them that means I think it really kind of hits you. Yeah. When you get those stories. I mean you can't I guess if you're a doctor or something you've got to just be able to deal with that. That's your life isn't if it you're a doctor your whole life is meeting people who you might say but then people are gonna die you meet a lot of people are gonna die. Yeah and you can't be like well you know the that yeah I'm I'm cool with this 'cause the guy died last week you know so you but you've also got to be able to get through it for yourself. You've got to be have some way of shutting off and going, Okay . You know, you can't you can't dwell on it and you can't um let it affect your whole life but it's it is so hard, especially when people come and give you the their true stories 'cause then especially for me, I mean to which wood you go I don't think I've got been through anything necessarily hard. Yeah, like life alteringly hard. In a way I hope I never Um so you go pff it's it it you get perspective of what real life is like when you're going, I'm not on QI. It's true. And you know and I think it's also easy to focus on one thing and go, why did that not happen? And then you know, again , whenever I have people on this, you sort of s you you can't have a handle on what everyone's doing all the time, yeah. Yeah. So I'm I'm I've been aware of you and I know I know you know, I know your stuff and uh but I haven't you know haven't seen Takishi's castle or wherever it is. I can't believe we've not seen Takeshi's castle . Why have you not seen some of my best work But you know then you go through and you see what people are doing and but also you see beyond like the five minutes or whatever that you that you know. And it's and everyone's doing so much stuff. And also it's sorta that's with the book thing, you just have people on with books and most of them like are quite successful people now. But you look at going to a bookshop it's the same thing as going into if you if you if there was a comedian shop and you went in there, yeah you go, Oh my god, there's like three thousand comedians in there. Everyone's an author. Everyone's a comedian. And so then you go, Oh, I understand now why that that only five of these guys are on TV. Yeah. Because they can't all be on TV. So I think it's just getting that perspective. But also you know, if you're you know if you get a job like with Russell T. Davis or whatever, or Sally Lindsay, those you know what I mean? Th those are the cherries. It is, it's all the cherry app. Like there's some some of the jobs you get you're like, How am I ? I really do 'cause I obvious I did move to London for years, but I bought a house on the estate I grew up on. Right. So that's where I live, yeah. So I get a really good sense of perspective and sometimes you go like everyone around me who I live I grew up with. So I've I still have friends where even if they're not like close friends at it, but people I see in the pub where it's like, I see you the them in playground, do you know? But I was also in the playground. Keep it let's keep it that way. Um and so you go, it is mad to go, Right, I'm going for that and then it's like, right, what you can do in day? I'm just off to film Would I lie And you're like, that is mad. Yeah. Like so I always have a good sense of perspective. Um that's why when people are like, Do you know what you should do? I know what you should do. If you make friends with Alex Hart. What world and we just get that right. Go on live at Apollo and then be was no no I think they think I think that I sat next to the booker of I went to Steve Coogan's birthday party. This is about the last time I went to any celebrity thing because I don't see one though. That is quite good. And I sat next to the bloke who I I think think you I see I'm so bad at remembering what who anyone is even but it was it was the guy in charge of uh the Apollo gig. Can't remember his name. I think it is Anthony. Yeah, it might be Anthony. Uh and he said, Of course you wouldn't I mean I think 'cause Stu you know, I think like if Stu says something, I think they people think we've both said it. Yeah. And uh you know, I would quite like Stu said I've got And and I'm not good at going I think he might have even said, Of course you wouldn't want to do it and I just didn't go, no, I would love to do it. You know, that's what you do. I would go, Oh yeah, no. Oh no. Yeah, I do. I why have I just said no?