Coincidences and the nature of reality

Hello monkey fiddlers, it's me, Richard Herring. Thank you for downloading my podcast. Please keep listening if you can. Uh the big news is uh twentieth of April, Leicester Square Theatre, one of the guests has been announced. It's Natasha Hodgson , one of the geniuses behind and in front of Operation Mince Meat the musical. Sorry, my cat's running around the kitchen making a ringing sound. Hope that's not disturbing you. Once the operation mince meat f ans hear about this it's gonna sell fast so get your tickets now go to richcharing.com slash rahullastapa and you can see all the dates there's a couple in July as well. I'm doing uh which Rick Mail Festival as well, but that is sold out. Um become a badger at GoFoster Stripe.com slash badges if you want to help us continue to make these bloody things. Anyway, sit back, relax, and enjoy another episode of one of my podcast s, you little fiddly monkey fiddler. Stop ringing those bells . Hi, we're back market . We sell expertly refurbished tech, like phones for talking to your friends, or your AI girlfriend. Wow, you have such strong muscles. Either way, this expertly refurbished tech costs way less than you. Guaranteed by the back market promise. One year warrant y, and 30-day free returns on every purchase. I am breaking up with you to be with Back Market. Back Markets, where the world shops refurbished tech . It's the most wonderful time of the years. Humadies, homies , homade 's. Booking hero ! It's time to swap your beanie for a bikini and get out of blighty. On the beach have got you covered with tons of last-minute deals on sunny destinations. Start booking around and search at on the beach.co.uk for last-minute beach and city breaks. Abter and at all protec ted on that beach hello my fanus friends welcome to another halostapa coming from the podcast rooms it,'s nice and cozy, no audience to spoil it. And my guest this week is probably best known for playing Stella in After You've Gone You all remember that sitcom is Wendy Waxon. How are you doing? Oh good. Do you remember much about that's look, I picked that 'cause I'm obsessed with Nicholas Lindhurst as a Nicholas And even I'd forgotten about this Nicholas Lindhurst suit. I'm gonna give well the that uh that I remember that suitcom for two reasons. One, because I went for a bigger part and then when I got the script in, I was like, I don't think I'm the one, I think I'm the small part. Oh no. And my agent was like, What the hell are you doing? And I was like, but I just I'd rather do something well than wrong. Do you know what I mean? Yes. So I talked myself into a smaller part and then when I got that and then I got there and Nicholas Linter's was lovely. Yeah. Celia Imory is also was also in that. Yeah. Uh I probably did see it at the time. I think it was kinda like so I think the the this premise was that God I'm I'm so over. Yeah, she died or she'd just gone abroad. I think she's just gone abroad. I don't really know. I can't remember. That would involve me reading the whole background. My bit. Yeah. Boring bit, boring bit, boring bit. Um anyway, my point was Nicholas Linthurst was look ing for houses at that point with um landing strips because he's a pilot. No. Yeah. Like an aeroplane landing strip or heavy. Let me see. 100%. So he was looking for houses on the on the other side of the channel with um runways. And I was kinda like, let me see. And everyone else was like, he's not gonna show you. And he's like, yeah, there you go. So I was looking at all these houses, going, this is another world. That is another wor I mean that is yeah, the he has worked consistently since he was like twelve years old, right? And I get really excited when repeat fees for Sherlock come in. So God only knows what he's on. I mean he's making I didn't know he was making airstrip money. Have you seen that picture of like John Travolta's house from 'cause he's got a he's got a landing strip for a jump he flies jumbo jets, John Travolta. Does he? So there's he's got like literally like a runway uh of his I don't know if it's it might not even be real. I I'm not very and I'm not up to speed, if you will, on runway size. But it looks like th those houses that just uh have runways off them. Wow. I've d well I can't believe that. That's incredible. It sounded like you're gonna slag off Celia Remory as well, but No Celia Emory is an absolute gem. She was on her way to um a festival on the Isle of Wight with her son. I think she's got a she's got a kid about the same age as our lot, like one maybe your eldest. Okay, yeah. Has she? I think so. Maybe slightly older. Okay. 'Cause my eldest is my youngest is now fourteen. Yeah, my young my oldest is eleven. So eleven. So it's a little bit younger. Yeah. Okay . I'm glad Silver Memory's nice. Oh she's so nice. That naughty twinkle and just like I think we were sitting like she was doing something with like breaking bread into shapes at lunch and like trying to make animals out of like bread and just like just silly fun. I like silly kind fun. Yeah. She's a proper actor actor, I'll say, but actress as well, if you want to go old school. In that I imagine she's sort of sitting there doing crosswords and being fun in the green room. Yeah. That's what I'm imagining. Yeah. And breaking bread up into shapes. Yeah, fun fun stuff. Do you know what I mean I think she's the kind of person that would like maybe pull your windscreen wipers up for a prank rather than something mean. Do you know what I mean? I think so. I think so. So uh do you still get recognised as uh s as Stella in You'll get recognition from that? Yeah, is there another series in the fight that I would be back? Recurring character. I think I wrote I drove a motorbike, that was the most exciting thing about Stella But like I knew when I first met you you were uh you were an an actor. An actor. Exclusively. I mean I know you're still an actor, but you were so I met you like in the nineties when I was working with I think this is the first time but famous Jeremy Heron I was working with Jeremy Heron but you also worked at the Guilda Bloom so maybe we came across each other at some point. I worked at the Guilderboy when I was like seventeen me from the Late and Live at some point. Oh yeah, or or not not even let you end maybe. Yeah, probably. Karen would put me on the door and go to tell you don't know who any of these people are and get their money off them and I'd be like, I don't know who any of these people are So yeah, that's why I was sat at the door. So yeah, so I knew you as an actor in this because it was quite uh it was like this Sc Scottottishish group of actors that Jeremy Heron has gone on to be a very successful. Yeah, he's now like in the on Broadway doing. What is it every brilliant thing? He's not doing every brilliant thing, he's doing a play called Every Brilliant Thing.. There you go Um but yeah he's And also he's do ing thing I only I he's doing every brilliant thing. I I only worked with him 'cause he had nearly had my surname. So that was a bit of like he was I was introduced to him by a guy who worked at Avalon called James Herring. Oh right. No relation, who's gone on to perform a very successful PR company of his own. Okay. Uh Taylor Herring, I think it's called if you want to watch it. Uh and he went to school with Jeremy Heron, No Relation 'cause it's not the same name. Herrin. And then I kinda thought, well this is too much, I've got to work I've got to work. Do you know what I was thinking of because I was thinking obviously before like um I was thinking what we're gonna talk about I was thinking about you doing the plays in Edinburgh with the the great Paul Putner and Selena Boyak and Jeremy Herr and Matthew Pige on. He's just finished a run uh in Stranger Things in the West Ends. Has he? As the headmaster which he was brilliant. Oh good. I was thinking about him when I just because of the first time. Oh because yeah, yeah, you do that thing, we're gonna go and Matthew's also just done um W'hos Arafid of Virginia Wolf, which was phenomenal in in Oxford. I went to see that last week. Um but I was thinking about the Edinburgh nights where we used to hang out. Do you remember in those days where when you were so young you could drink yourself sober? Do you rem I d I don't remember them because I was drinking sober. I remember drinking myself sober with Jeremy. I was walking back and I think you guys had a flat in Marchmont maybe or somewhere around about there, and we were walking home chatting at like three o'clock in the morning. And you know those houses in Edinburgh that have those stone lions like on the on the sort of driveway thing? We were walking along and as we walked along, a guy in front of us, we heard a snap. We heard a snap. And he ran out like a proper car toon c cartoon criminal with this big stone lion about three o'clock in the morning. Oh my god. I don't remember that. Well yeah. I just remember thinking looking going, was that did that guy just nick el Storm Lion ? A lot happened at three o'clock in the morning in Edinburgh. I my favourite was I was just walking coming back from Leighton Live and it was quite late and just along that road back towards the present pleasants along that road that the Blake and Live was on. And um just there were two people like uh just uh there was a wall and then two people just not I think like in a car parking space just fucking each other doggy style. Oh my god. And they both just waved. I mean they were literally just like they were literally like ten ten feet away, just fucking in the open air. I need another drink and go to the Penny Black. Yeah. Which was the pub that all the po and then round about seven AM all the postmen would come in because they'd finished their shifts. Yeah. I wasn't good. I wasn't good at staying up all night, but I did do that once or twice. I stayed up once all night with Phil Key and then he said, Come on, we'll go and frighten all the American tourists and have breakfast in the Balmoral. So about ten he's like on me, so about ten of us we must have looked like death sitting giggling drunk in the Balmoral ordering toast. Scrambled eggs and toast at seven o'clock in the morning. It was amazing times. Oh yeah. We can't go back when Yeah. But thank God there was no internet then. No phone no phone cameras. Yeah, we'd be cancelled long ago. Although you have to be bigger than Stella from after you've gone to be cancelled. That's true. And you've done uh I've done other stuff, have I? Okay. Um I didn't know you were born in South Africa. That's my first surprise and I know you quite well. But I know you didn't w live there really. I lived there for like two years. Yeah, my mum and dad were there. Yeah. Were they 're not you're the screen. No, they're sc they're Scottish, they just went out there like travelling. My dad worked uh as an engineer, my mum was a nurse. Okay. So she worked in South Africa. Do you have any you don't have any memories of South Africa? No memories of South Africa at all, no. But then when I say to South African people I was born in Durban they go, uh so I think it might be a shith. Right I think everyone goes Cape Town, ooh Jobart uh Durban uh You can tell by people's noises, can't you? Yeah you can whether they're impressed. Yeah., but they're impressed I think all also when like um as a comic when you say so where are you from and you don't know the area and people go, you know, they'll say where their their town is and you'll go, Is that nice? And if the rest of the audience giggle you're like, Oh okay, you live you. live So Durban's a shithole, that's all you live in. Well I don't know, I don't know. No didn't I've not been back, so I've been back to Johannesburg. So and that was like interst uh Johannesburg was quite violent when I was there. Right. I went to visit a friend who'd lived in a compound with barbed wire. around it So it's always nice when you pull up to someone's house. You're like, ha, barbed wire. Yeah, I have not been I've been to um Tanzania and that's the only place in Africa I've ever been. Have you? Tanzania? I've been to Tanzania I've done honeymoon to Tanzania. Oh did you? Did you go in Safari? Yeah. It's cool. 'Cause we went in Safari to Tanzania they were like and you see all the big five and and uh and the guy was talking about rhinos and he was like, you know what, the only thing I've been here eight years, I've never seen rhinos? And I was like, really? he And's like yeah but we've definitely got them. I said, have you? He said, Yeah, I said, have you ever seen footprints of rhinos? And he went, No. I said, but they're definitely here. My husband was like, shut up, Wendy. You know, we were sort of leading the conversation. Definitely got them, but no footprints and no sightings. Have you ever seen a horn of rhino horn? Nothing. Rhino shit. No. They probably got probably got a good shit, the rhinos. Yeah. Well I guess. It's not a job I want. Although Lucy Porter, was quite in like um you know Lucy Porter very well. I do know Lucy Porter very well. Um and her flat she used to have many years ago, she probably doesn't have it anymore, she used to have the Bristol stool chart in her toilet. Yes. So you could check how you were getting on. No the the Richterscare scale or Celsius or Fahrenheit, they all put their names to the chart. But the guy who invented the Bristol Jewel Still chart was like, Yeah, just put the union's name on it. Just put the university name on it. I don't want nothing to do with this. He probably gets hassled. Probably the shit guy. He's like Banksy. He's like the peop the papers are just trying to find out who he Who was it? Who was the guy who analysed that there are seven types of shit? And no other type. I think it's seven. I don't yeah, I don't remember I don't think it's I I think I've done more than seven different kinds of shit in my life. I've do a lot of shit. Do you? And do a lot of different types of shit. You never know what's coming out of it. I remember my youngest saying, Mum, come and have a look at this, it's huge. No. Nobody wants to see your shit. I do, I quite enjoy this. Oh really? When my daughter was like really young, she did such I mean like unbelievably big poos and you just think this how how was that how's that come out of you? How is it how was it in the world? I remember Riley walking out of the toilet once going I feel so sorry for toilets , Oh gosh, what kind of carnage is in there? That's good. So I'm I'm gonna go absolutely crazy on this one. But that that's that's you know that's part of the fun. Um let's talk um wanna t let's talk about your acting career first and then we'll talk about um and some of this is like I say, because you're still acting and you're still doing still acting. Well I've just written a play, so um I'm not sure Do you know what's really funny? Because I work with Johnny Depp and also um John Malkovich. Really? And I bumped into him in a shop in Covent Garden. Right. Yeah. He was in this little you know these Japanese shops that sell these amazing little ceramic things and there's about five items. Yes. I was in there getting a a knife from my Japan obsessed son. Yes. And so was John Markovich. Wow. And did he remember you from the well he said he did but, you know when actors go, Yeah, I was the uh the many times you bump into actors and they go, Oh, I was just talking about you and you're like, Oh fuck off. No you weren't. Did you did you work were you in a scene with Malkovich? I was in a scene with Depp right Malkovich, but I had a makeup seat next to John Malkovich. It's it and I was pregnant with Max and I remember going, Oh the baby's kicking and both John Malkovich and Johnny Depp going, May I? and putting their hand on my tummy and looking up and seeing every woman on that set hating me . 'Cause I had a a Johnny Sandwich . Never said that before, I won't say it again. Sorry Max if you'd listened to this. was Johnny Depp nice? Lovely. Yeah. He was drinking a lot at the time, expensive bottles of wine. Yeah. And said to me, I remember calling up my husband at the time and saying, I've just had a glass of wine, he was like, You're pregnant. I was like, Well, Johnny Depp said that in France you're allowed to drink wine, you're just not allowed to eat salad. And he was like, I'm not sure Johnny Depp's a real doctor. I'm not sure Johnny Depp's the person to ask about pregnancy advice. You can have a glass of wine. Well Katie had some wine with the second one. And he has turned out really badly. Well I think um no whey the first, a couple glasses with the second. I think I fell within the legal limits of no normal alcohol consumption with the third and he's bonkers. Okay, yeah. So that that that checks out. Don't drink if you're pregnant. Don't drink if you're pregnant, I don't advocate it it.. That's That's all of it. Um and yeah, Sherlock, I was very excited to see you on Sherlock. That was I mean it feels like it was recently, but that wasn't recent, was it? Well Riley was quite wee. And I remember like yeah. I remember what what I remember about Sherlock is I remember Benedict Cumberbatch was standing on the wrong side of the camera and I remember the camera say the director saying, Oh, can you just stand on this side and he's like, Oh yeah yeah he said I just need a bit more screenwork and I'll nail this and I remember thinking, Fucking hell, he needs a bit more screenwork. But do you know what's really worried about that? I did did you do that thing years and years ago called broken news where it was like every comic and every actor did a little bit of a little bit on smaller I had a like a regular role in it and Benedict had a a role in it as well. Right. And he remembered he came up and was like, We worked together on Broken News. Wow, okay. And I remember thinking what the hell are you Googling? I mean how nice. Yeah, that is nice and unnecessary. But he must have remembered you 'cause it maybe he came in and you were the big you know, you were the you were a regular and he was just new and just trying to come out. And his mum I don't know if you're gonna bring this credit up, but I was in coupling? Yeah, I've got coupling written there. She was someone's mum in c coupling. Oh and I worked with her. Okay. And he was like you work with my mum and I was like, he's been stolen. Oh my god , I just think he's really nice. He seems nice. We don't understand that because we're not that nice. Like we were at my husband and Stephen and I were at a wedding last week and there was this guy and he was very earnest, he was very disabled and I said, Stephen, I think he's cooked up to the eyeballs. And Stephen went Wendy, I think he's just nice But because we're comics we're like, I don't trust that nice person. What are they up to? Yeah. It's we well it's because but like the th weird thing with acting is that just somebody can become so famous. Yeah. But they but they're at the sa at a lower level than you or the same level than you and then suddenly they're just like an international superstar. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Brett got I remember Jimmy Carr saying to me, acting is like having a lottery ticket in your back pocket. Yeah. Because you don't know who's gonna hit and you don't know when it's gonna strike, but it can happen any time. Yes. And it's true, like I mean Brett is hugely talented, I'm not b disparaging Brett, but I like starting out with him, you were like my money wasn't on you. No, and I did I did in fact we'd weirdly I did I went up to Edinburgh for just a one day, one w the year I didn't do it. do To a pod to do a podcast festival and that's where I actually met the person from ACAST, which made me move to ACAST and start making some money from the podcast. So it was my most successful Edinburgh 'cause I actually 'cause I actually suddenly got to do it. But uh but anyway I went to see Brett What's his name can I don't know. They've moved on, they've moved on. And it was a woman sexist. I went to see uh I went to see Brett's show and it was you know, it was a good show really good show. About half about half full . And he was saying I I want to get into podcasting, which he did, because that thing that really helps. And I think he might just have been writing Ted Lasso at that point. And so for that was literally the point that you know that he was he was doing well. So I saw Superbob, you remember him and his friend made that film Superbob when he was a superhero. Yeah. And I always joke about that 'cause like we talk about manifesting now and I think manifesting is pretty much having in a clear it's it's where the m the mixture of science and the plan comes to f into fruition and he wrote Superbob about an everyday superhero and now he's in the Marvel franchise. Well that's true. Yeah, I hadn't I had not made that connection. I don't think how it works when they give it to me. I know, but I think I think i I I you might not think of how it works, but I think you don't no one knows how it works. No, no one does know how it works. I mean I think there's a lot of good fortune and grass and just just though it's those moments, you know, like grey uh Brett made a decision. He wrote the whole show which is really writers room which is amazing enough in itself. Um and then he wrote part that only he could do he wrote the whole thing but he wrote part and was thinking this is I could do this part and we wait till the whole writing press was over and then sent uh a t self tape in saying, you know, I think I might be good at this part, but if I'm not, let's never talk about this again. So he made that you know, he didn't like you say I should do this, he just did this little thing . And if he hadn't that of course someone else would have ended up playing it and it would have been still like nicer. So that's a plan and that's thinking you could do it Well I always say that like like my other half like when he gets offered jobs and he's like, I don't want to do this and I was like, it's you need to be doing something. Yeah. It's better to be doing something than doing nothing. Just do something. So I think that is true and I think I've I turned down things a lot I think in the early days or just thought was sno snooty about things. And I think often just you'll do a job just talking to uh Steve and uh Bailey beforehand and saying like just he just he'd done a gig and it happened like when they were booking something someone had seen him that week. Yeah. You know and said, Oh we should have him, he's brilliant and he gets the job. Yeah. And it's just a little bit you if you do the gift . I always like I've got a women's film festival and I always say like doing the thing. Just do the thing. Make the film. Write the book. Paint the picture. Paint the art. Do it. So what's the what's the what so you're doing of let's you mention the play. Let's talk about the play. The play. I um so in twenty twenty three I'm still very best look my best friends are all my friends from school in Edinburgh and if you grew up in Edinburgh you can't escape witches and Scottish folklore and all that kind of stuff. Um and I don't know if you know this, but Scotland was excellent at killing witches. I do, because I've just read Harriet Tyson's book. Oh really? Okay. Is it set in Edinburgh? Okay. So between fifteen sixty three and seventeen thirty six, four thousand women were accused of witchcraft, which per cap p head the population is m bigger than even the German witch hunts. Right. Um and we had the Witchcraft Act which made it legal uh to sort of say Richard's wife turned my milk sour, she's a witch. And if you defended her then you'd be in on it as well. So we'd go and that's a way that we got rid of it. And Shakespeare got in on the act as well because when King James, uh the first of England, sixth of Scotland, was coming down he he was coming down to England, Shakespeare wanted a gig. So he was like, What's he into? So he's into succession because his aunt killed his mum. Yes. And he's not a big fan of women 'cause he's killing witches. Yep. So they wrote he Shakespeare wrote Macbeth. Elizabeth I liked witch liked fairy stuff in the midsummer night's dreams, so he wrote that for her, but then when he wanted a gig with the new king, he went straight in with Macbeth and then was made the case. So that perpetuated the whole story of witches in Scotland. Very much the Brett Goldstein of his day. Saw an opportunity, did we self-date, boom. Um but uh when in twenty twenty-three Nicola Sturgeon, or maybe twenty twenty things twenty twenty three, Nicola Sturgeon formally apologize to all the women who were executed as witches in Scotland. She said I can't pardon them because that's a legal precedent, but I can apologise because it was terrible what we did and I'm sorry. And I said to my one of my girlfriends from school, she needs to watch herself because she's the right And I said um she needs to watch herself and then a year no she got she's she apologised on International Women's Day on the eighth of March. She was arrested the following February for financial irregularities in the late in the Scottish National Party and she wasn't guilty. So it was like her husband was doing something. So she and then she lost it. She resigned, she lost her job, she lost her husband, and she hadn't done anything. Right. And so my friend from school was like, You need to you called that, you need to write it. So what I've done is my play matches actual witch trials from the fifteen hundred sixteen, seventeen hundreds to modern day witch hunts. Great. That sounds very good. That's n is not like Harriet Tice's book, are they? But it's in but there's loads. It's rooted in fact. Yeah, yeah. Well that's but so's her books of fiction as well. I mean I'm sorry, is a fiction but she uses lots of facts as well. Yeah. So like all the stuff about there's loads of stuff on Arthur's scene and things that have been dug up on Arthur's scene. Well we tried to sort of do a m they try to do a memorial for women Let's be clear about this. There were women. I don't think they were witches. Was it worth it just to get one? Just to get one. You know, you can never you can never be too careful. I think four thousand women are the right amount to come to um accuse. But um they we couldn't find a memorial we they couldn't sign a memorial because it's happened so many places. Yeah. So The Witches of Scotland is a podcast that you should listen to, it's amazing. They've um developed a tartan. And that's a memorial tartan commemorating all the women who were executed as witches. Yeah. I mean it's fucking insane. And we you know, but like you say And then it went over to Salem and like Salem what killed twenty nine women Scotland did like nearly th over two and a half thousand were executed. And like they weren't like everyone everyone talks about the sort of you know, in drowning and if you floated you were we didn't really do that. What we did was we we'd hang ya and then we'd burn you. So uh because and not because it were like it was vindictive evilness, it was because there was a time where people were worried you'd you'd reanimate. Yes, yeah. Yeah. And there's loads of witchcraft and there's a the database of Scottish witchcraft where you can put in your ancestor's name and it'll flash up if anyone was accused or convicted. Right. And has the trials. Quite a lot of them don't have the trials but they do have the money uh it costs to keep the witch. And and ha to like 'cause you have to black out the curtains in case black out the windows in case you sort of managed to cast a spell on anyone. And the peat it cost to burn her and the money it cost for the guards to look after her. Yeah. And there's all that sort of foun like finance in place. But not necessarily her trial. And that's what yeah, that's so that's sort of Shakespeare. That's the one that That's fifteen sixty three to seventeen thirty six. Hundred and seventy odd years. And now Scotland's ahead of England, you know, that's the thing in in terms of being you know, culturally ahead of England. Killing women. The other way round. Now uh now I'd go to Scotland and think, yeah, the people here. I mean I'm I remember like going when I went to Scotland like as a student thinking, Oh god, you know it's gonna it's gonna be scary up here and everyone's tough and everyone's dr unk and and was a bit like that . But that was only in the Guild of Bloom. But uh but like you know, now it's it's moved it's moved in in a forward direction, a three thinking direction, I think. Right . Whereas England has sort of really gone in the other direction. I think England's so divided though. As a comic I just like you go around in like uh I mean y I don't know if you travel as much as you used to, but like I'm in I was in Colchester on um on Saturday, I'm in Sheffield, Exeter and Cardigan Bay this week, you know like we get around and you speak to people and you just go God everyone's so divided and and people in power are are pitting us against each other. It just doesn't seem you know No, it's bad it's bad times. It's bad times it's bad times. And also when you drive in somewhere like it's like I drove into Epsom th last week and there's St. George's flags everywhere and you're like, in Epsom , you're fine. You're fine, you're doing all right. Yes, it's uh I was say you know, I was thinking the other I've said this on the other day on Twitter or some not Twitter, but one of the social media places I don't do Twitter anymore. But like the amount of effort it took to put all those flags up, if those guys just said, Hey, why don't we go and fill in a few potholes in the roads? They could have done so much good. And then people would have, you know, everyone would have loved them and it would have been better for a reformer, whoever they're supporting. You could have even maybe you could have done a flag in the road if it's that important too. You could have painted the bottle with a little England flag on there. 'Cause you know the infrastructure is so you know it's noticeably bad. Everything goes wrong. Like yeah, I'm I mean I think And like Virgin Richard Branson Yeah, well hopefully they'll all go, but I think they'll leave us behind in an unpleasant place. Fingers closed. Hi, we're back market . We sell expertly refurbished tech, like phones for talking to your friends, or your AI girlfriend. Wow, you have such strong muscles. Either way, this expertly refurbished tech costs way less than you. Guaranteed by the back market promise. One-year warranty and 30-day free returns on every purchase. I am breaking up with you to be with Back Market. Back market where the world shops refurbished tech . It's the most wonderful time of the year. On the beach, on the beach, on the beach. Booking hero ! It's time to swap your beanie for a bikini and get out of blighty. On the beach have got you covered with tons of last-minute deals on sunny destinations. Start booking around and search at on thebeach.co.uk for last-minute beach and city breaks. Abter and Atoll Protected So you'd you were in but I'm very interested in your stand-up journey because you like you say you were working at the Gilded Bloon as a teenager, watching these comedians and liking com c But you didn't think of becoming a standard. I didn't think I could do it. I wanted to do it. Right. I remember seeing Eddie Izzard doing the same show the next night and going, he doesn't make it up Right. Oh my god. And it was really shocking to me. Yeah. And then thinking I n I'll never be able to do that. And then when Max was six weeks old, thinking if I don't do this now I'm never gonna do it. Right. And so I tried it and it felt like and f I I know people do comedy for all kinds of reasons but I really enjoyed the connection. My favourite thing is when I u make an observation and I can see people in the crowd going, Oh you do that, you do that and you s do you know what I mean? You see them and you kinda go and like hum I like doing talking about humdrum stuff and picking it Yeah. But that's so that's a time. When your kid's six weeks old six weeks old. I remember I was breastfeeding. I remember handing a com comedian a baby running in doing an open spot and then Right. Yeah. It was tough, but I think it was that sort of you know how mad we are. Like ha the madness of a newborn. Yeah. Where you're like, I've just grown a fucking human. I can do anything. Yes. I've grown teeth. I've grown brains. It's true, yeah. It's true. But it's still like it's a bi it's a big deal. I mean it's great it's an amazing thing to start doing it but it's also like you know, it's it's it's tough. It's really tough. So it's very admirable to do that. Even being a f a father of a newborn child is it's And then I was a single mum for like three years and that and and I can't recommend comedy highly enough. Right. A as a mother because you're there in the mornings, you get them up, you take them to school, you're do you like you're right during the day and then you pick them up from school and you do all the mum stuff and you're there and you're present and if you don't want to work when it's sports day, you don't fucking work when it's sports day. And those things zip by so quickly. I just didn't and my mum was a career woman so I didn't want to not know what my kid's friends were or know that you know keep your head away from Jake 'cause he's got life every day. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Don't colour in you see them colouring in next to their friends with their heads touching, you're like, Get your head off that kid I wanted to know all that stuff. And I think as a comedian you get to do that because you feed them, you do bath time, you put them in bed, you get a setter or a friend to come round and you go out and you do your gig. Yeah. And you get to be about this you. That's not just I mean I talk about but I say it's not just being a mum, we used to talk about well, I didn't have the and I didn't have the the bandwidth or the energy to write material. I just go, guess what little shit said today And I still do that to an extent. Yes. But um i I think it like even for mental health wise it's kinda like free therapy, isn't it? Yeah and it's just absolutely you know it just being able to talk about anything, even if you don't come to any conclusions, well just say get the get stuff off your chest. It really is And I also written a new show called Bitchcraft which is kind of about I've spent a lot of time in my life trying to please my parents and trying to please my husband and trying to please my friends and then you get to sort of the age of where now and like, do you know what? There's no fucking point because I just resent everyone when I'm trying to make everybody happy and they don't see the hoops you're jumping through. They think you're just that's just who you are and you actually no. I I I don't like that. Do you know what? I don't like peas. Stop feeding me Pete, you don't like i i I don't know why it's taken me so long to get there. Yeah. And it's about sort of occupying the space where you just want to be the person that you were meant to be. Yeah. I mean yeah, uh well as we say your kids are sort of I mean coup but a couple of them are grown up grown up. But this is the first time so I've been I feel like I've got resurgence now because for the first time since I've started stand up, I don't have to do a school run. Right. 'Cause Riley can get himself home. So that's like twenty one years that I've not been able to drive to Sheffield. Yes. Because I have to be Well I don't have to be home. But I don't see the point in being a mum if you're gonna fuck it up. No. Do you know what I mean? If you get that wrong, there's no point in being good at anything else. Do you know what I think? I do, I do. There's enough damaged people walking around. I just want to be present and there and I'm doing you know, you're doing the best job you can. I'm not gonna be perfect. But I do say sorry when I fuck it up to my kids which is a step in the right direction I hope. It is not everyone does. And you know you forget I think it's when you've you know we've both done this job m all of our lives or what a job adjacent to this all of our lives and you sort of you know, like you're going, Oh what are you doing at Easter with your kids? And they go,, Well I'm working so I'm not gonna do anything with my kids. You gotta go, Oh yeah, people have to do that. Yeah, but also I think I take Easter off. I'm I like I I pick time off because I r what I wanted was a sort of secure family and we ha and now the kids are older, they c if I'm buying the holiday, they're coming with me. Holiday and also they never used to like getting dragged around music festivals, but they are the first on the lineup booking me in, going, right, you're doing Latitude this year 'cause I want to see David Byrne and you're doing what else am I doing? Um the Kendall Calling 'cause they want to see whoever's on at Kendall Calling. I don't know. But they'll come. Yeah. It's great. Yeah, it's nice to it and it's so it is it is it's you know, it's it's ex it's nice to have a job where you can still be yourself and still be your proper parent and be a family and then every now again take them to something it's like. Kitten to Lily Allen. Well no last night I was just thinking to w we were seeing of of of Mike But then it's the same for you, like you end up chatting to people and you don't know But sometimes you get a nice wee kickback. You do. Um let's have a I'm gonna ask you an emergency question. Oh gosh. Um and fact I I''m gm gonnaonna look it up. I'm gonna ask you uh I need to read your book. Well it's only a book of questions. Look at that. You don't have to I'll I'll give you a copy. Um have you ever seen a ghost? I'm interested in your answer to this question because it'll get us onto some other I think I've felt a ghost. Have you? Yeah. Like have you felt the presence or you've just had a f feel under the sheet. It's like are you actually here? What's the point if I can't feel it? No no no I don't mean that. Have you ever stayed in Chateau Marmon in Los Angeles? Uh I haven't, I'm aware of it. It's haunted to f I I just feel like there's a room we were in, I just felt this coldness. Right. And like I walked out the co corridor and like the heating was on it wasn't it was like a cold, chilling they've they've done the room up like it's sort of some cool sixties room, but you can just imagine like I don't know um Sylvia Plath's head and do you know what I mean coming out of the oven? It's just it's just like uh it just feels cold and dark. Yeah, yeah. Chilling. Okay. Chilling. Yeah. But I haven't seen a ghost. And you didn't stayed in that room and they go, It was Riverfeet. Well no, I should have I should have got into it, shouldn't I? I just wanted out. You know when you kinda go Yeah but that's a I don't know if it's comic you do that when you drive down a country lane and go, Yeah nah I'm not this is not for me 'cause the the amount of times you turn up at gigs and you're like, Am I gonna end up dead? Yeah. Is this a real gig? I think that's true. But I think that as an actor I was talking about if we were talking to you about that recently, but I had an audition which was literally in someone's basement, like in their house, and I went in and then it turned out and we did they made the film and it never came out and it's sort of like what the What was that? What's going on? It had like loads of famous people in it. And uh but then you know I don't and I think they were someone sent me a copy of the rough cut of it that that would have picked so there was a film. I wasn't in it, they'd cut my bit out. But it kind of going like you just try you know, someone said, Oh, can Rich Hown come and audition at this place in this house? Yeah, and you're so desperate to work, you just go. Yeah, there's faith there. But like but then you read that story that got kidnapped that model that got kidnapped in Italy and goes who's gonna turn up when they don't know? Us me every day. Yeah I turn up at Gig like I turned up at a gig in Yorkshire in October and it was a dark, dark village. There was no street lamps, I was like, what the fuck is this? And then I could see down the bit then the village there was a bouncing village hall. Right. So I went in. They were all dressed in later hosen, celebrating Octoberfest . So it was a real gig, but I was just like, What the fuck? It was a big wicker man out of the back. Come on in. It's gonna be fine. But it is you know, you go in places you don't know where you're going and you are taking a lot you know I don't wanna give anyone any ideas at home. But you're good. But you know, I think Kate last went to the gig and said I she had to drive round for fifteen minutes 'cause it's the place it was just like a dark. Well yeah, you and I think as a what like people often say used to say to me why do women less women do comedy? Like 'Cause uh Cochester on Saturday night, getting the train home at eleven at ten o'clock at night, just full of drunks, people go cheer up, love I'm like fuck off Yeah. Top tip men, don't speak to girls on their own. Don't do it. Move away. Yeah. Unfortunately these men are well are souls but also drunk and so therefore they won't listen to reason now. Self awareness is a bit thin on the ground there as well. Maybe this is I do I failed to pull in the club. Maybe the train is the place. Uh romantic comedies was all that kind of thing. Um I thought the I thought you might I'm into all that shit. You're into a load of load of crap. But you're into No I'm joking. So you did a podcast with Carly Smallman right now. Yeah, called Love Hex and Magic. Okay. I'm quite into like I like Motaro cards. I like I'm open to things. There's definitely more going on than than we're aware of. There's more there's more out there. I like crystals and I like all that sort of stuff and I like I remember Al Murray taking a piss out of me for this actually, was he like, You but it's bullshit, it's I was like, quartz helps watches run to time, it harnesses energy, that's why it's a quartz watch, Al. And his daughter was doing GCSEs at the time. And I said, Okay, you don't believe in it, but if I gave your daughter a pink rock and put it in her hand and told you So it doesn't matter. If you're into it, be into it. If you're not, who gives a fuck? I'm intr I'm interested in it. Well it's it you know, I think all these things are interesting. It's why you know, but that it's sort of uh weirdly the reason like people are into witchcraft and or anti witchcraft isn't because it's sort of trying to it's trying to make sense of the world, you know, sometimes uh but also like herbs and stuff, like midwives and uh would be would be accused of being witches. And if you if m the original book, Hamnet, have you read it? It talks about Shakespeare Wives. And she was like a forest woman. She'd go out and make poultices and herbs and stuff and people would think that she was a witch and a weirdo because she'd make pastes and stuff that would help like remedies. Yeah. And that's that's a kind of witchcraft thing as well. Well you know, all the s science is witchcraft that works. Like a lot of it wor you know, that's the or it's the Tim Minchin line, isn't it, about the there's a stuff there's a name for alternative medicine that works. It's called medicine. And also I didn't realise how creative science is because I did a master's in neuroscience and psychology over lockdown. Right. And I didn't realise how many papers get written by people going, I think the earth is round and now I'm gonna set about proving it. Right. So and like th that comes on a whim, that's just a creative idea. Yeah. And then people look for other papers and to back up their like that's what you when you read papers and you see who's sponsoring the paper, you can find whatever you want to find to prove your point. Yeah. Yeah. I think also when you read about physics and get into real deep into physics, the stuff is so so insane. More insane than religion. Yeah. But then like even tarot cards for example, that came up through the Silk roads where merch ants and when when when in Italy when all the banks were owned by um li uh by fa royal families and sort of like well to do families, traders couldn't talk about stuff and and they'd go to the church and rat and and the priests would obviously get paid off by the wealthy families so they'd discuss their business and stuff by passing cards back and forwards. they'd be discussing like if it was pentacles it would be finances are going well or wands would be an I like or or swords would be an idea, what so th that that's how it started and then it came over to the UK and you'd get your grannies reading your cards for you or reading your tea leaves. And that might sound like batshit, but actually that's someone doing therapy in their living room. Going, let's talk about you for an hour. And whether it's reading tea leaves or tarot cards, and then they'd get butter for it or they'd get milk for it and it was women earning cash or earning stuff. I guess yeah No, that's true. Who you go, how are you getting away with that? I'm not mentioning any names because I don't want anyone to be sued. But we know exactly who we're talking about. Um and it look I d you did you do a document about Space nineteen ninety nine? Did you do something about Space that I did Jerry Anderson? I yeah I did a uh I got shown a sort of Space nineteen nin nineteen ninety nine film. Yeah. 'Cause I'd never seen it. This is a podcast where like watch this, what do you think? And I was like It's weird animation. I quite like that. Yeah. But yeah, they asked me to come and do it and I was like, sure I'll do it. Okay. So I watched yeah. Do you know about Joe Anderson? I do, yeah, lots. That's what I was just sort of I didn't I that's what I thought. I thought I can't see Wendy that interesting Jerry Anderson. So I just saw you connected with the remote. They mailed me and they were like, and I was like, what is it? And then you do that thing where you get down the rabbit hole and you're like, Yeah, actually I w I might do that. That's wild. It's it's good. It's did some good stuff. Um good. I'm glad I'm glad you're not like a massive fan of it. I'd rather you're into crystals than Space Night. Oh really? I mean it's a bit rubbish, but it's well are you I I used to really I mean that cat that was on a lot I mean I all of this stuff 'cause it's all Thunderbirds and stuff are like Fireball XL5. There was like r right back some of my core memories, Captain Scarlet I used to be and Joe ninety I'm obviously so like a but some of them or but like Fireball XL5 predates me like officially but they would say that's what I think they would occasionally repeat these things. But I remember Joe Ninety was absolutely my fav one of my favourite shows that I can't remember anything about it, but the it's burnt and I can remember the tit uh opening tiles but it sort of burnt in that I loved that show. So but uh yeah Space ninety nine was I it 'cause the moon uh gets blasted off into space. It's quite a nice idea. But it didn't it was wrong How many shows of your name must have done six six six I did one called Selfish Portrait which I really enjoyed but COVID hit and I've never done it. And someone's like, What that's a ghost, a ghost show. Yeah. We should all do our Edinburgh ghost shows that never actually happen. Because I'm like, Well just record it and put it out there and I'm like there's something kind of that feels kind of quite like ungiven away. Yeah. That sounds weird, doesn't it? But you know what I mean? You've done all this work on something. Yeah. And you always think I do this work and I'll get this and I'll get that. But sometimes it's nice just to do the work. Yeah. Not to do anything with it. Do you know what I mean? I do, yeah. Which sounds mad. But it's well like a l in writing a lot, I think there's you know, and you know this as well as a writer that you you know, you'll p pitch something and you'll have to do quite a lot of work on something and then nothing ever happens. Nothing happens. I really want to do a put 'cause I love football. Yeah. Um but I'm always intrigued about all like I don't like m both my boys have got ADH But I want to do a podcast about football but not talking about the football, also talking about the stadium design and the kit design and mascot and the and all that shit. Like the fact there's only one vegan football team in in in the league. Google it. But I just find like I find all the stuff around it as interesting because it sustains communities, yeah um male mental health, like fem all mental health actually. Like my neighbour's was gonna give up his arsenal season ticket and his wife was like, Please don't. And he says, Why don't she say because you go there and you shout once a week and then you come back home and everything's light and airy again. And it's I just think That's nice if it works that way, I think it didn't work that way. But yeah, but that's interesting in itself. But yeah, that is a good idea. That's a good idea. I want to do something like that, but then no one no one wants it. I mean with podcasts it doesn't I mean that I th the I increase people have got to listen to it . I don't think they do. I th I increasingly think I mean, you know, this is a uh privileged position of making enough money from my other work to be able to say this. But I increasingly think like you should just be doing stuff that you think's good and just putting and it doesn't it sort of then doesn't matter what happens to it 'cause you can spend a lot of your life being frustrated going, Why have people not seeing this brilliant show I did or this why is no one listening to this brilliant w obscure idea I've got? And actually all you could do is go, I'm putting this out into the world, I've made it and I like it doesn't matter if anyone else even listens to it. And then uh if it's you know, n and not not necessarily if it's w it w I don't think that if you give it to the universe, the universe will accept sometimes you'll do something that is objectively great and Well the Love Hex Magic podcast, like I'm intrigued by that, like runes and like because and I don't know a lot about it. I look like astrology and all that kind of stuff. I find it fascinating. And statistically when people lose interest in religion, interest in other stuff peaks and people are more interested in that because everyone's just looking for meaning, aren't they? So whatever your meaning is. There is no meaning. I loved that show. And you realise you know that every we all believe in stuff that is not tangibly provable as true. Not even democracy, love, all these things, they're not things you believe. And I was like, Well mumma was brought up Catholic. So it's quite easy to replace one set of magic for another. Did not go down well. Did not go down well. But that's it. People are unable to you know, but that's people are unable to sort of have their own stuff. They'll go, Why are these people doing something that's biologically untrue or whatever? But I believe in a big man in the sky who looks after us all you're not allowed to say I'm crazy. So you know it,' its's you know, it all people should be allowed to do whatever they want clearly as long as they're not harming other people with whatever they're doing. Like even people that believe aliens built the pyramids. I I do struggle. My husband always says to me, y I can see everything you're thinking on your face. Put a poker face on because yeah, I suddenly go, Huh, ha ha huh okay. And like it's quite hard. But also they're allowed. Yeah, they're allowed, but like do you think I'm not twenty anymore. I don't have to prove everyone wrong. No but I can just let you think what you think and get it. But what people who think the earth's flat and you can sort of demonstrate please say like where is the where's the Have you ever done a cruise? Say Russia's. If you ever done a cruise you can just see the horizons round. And if you're going from uh America to Russia and they're at either end of your flat earth, how come I'm ever And everyone's like, 'cause it's going what what's going on with Greenland? Why did they want now what's going on with Latin? Like, do you know how cle close it is to Russia? It's the next stepping stone to Russia for America. Do you get it? Yeah. But anyway, so no, I uh whatever you want. If you believe the earth's flat, that's cool. And everything else is a sphere in the universe. Uh anyway, yes. Look it's a n it's nice I think it's a nice way of looking at things. I think we need to uh be more uh I think so. Accommodating. I think but yeah. As long as you're not harming anyone, just crack on. Yeah. And you know, people find their own thing. think social media's just made people more judgmental and also then introduce people to other thoughts that aren't their own and then they can get challenged by it. But you know, it's interesting anyone just being ch it's like I used to be vegetarian and everyone was always challenged. You know, th we it was wasn't Why? Because people would think that if you're s especially in the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties when I did nineteen eighties it was when I was vegetarian hall from nineties. I was veggie for the eighties and nineties. What what what knocked you off? Um what knocked me off become a vegetarian? I just thought I'm not I don't believe in enough to put people to the inconvenience. But it but people just felt challenged by you you know, you can say, Well this is how I'm living my life. Yeah. But then they but then they go, Well why? What you know, what what's what you're saying about me? Yeah, but it's the same if we were drinking though. Do you think that? If like 'cause I go through I I'm either getting smashed or not drinking at all. Yeah. Nothing in between. I don't do moderation. So and when I'm not drinking, people are like, oh and I think it for it forces but and it's the same thing th I I I think it's the same when you get a divorce. Right. When I go when I was going through my divorce, people then examine their relationships and go, Oh, well you know, that's just marriage. Well or why don't you have an affair? Yeah, not for me. I I I I know who I am and I know this isn't working and it's not how I want to be. Yeah. And the same for drinking alcohol, and the same for eating meat, and the same for I don't know, being into science or being into yoga, whatever your thing is. Yeah. It forces people to address what they're not doing. for themselves Yes. I suppose that is apparently a very wise woman. Who knew? Tell no one. Tell no one. It's going so w it's going so far. It's I had a show called Wangin' On that that didn't take out there as well. It was just me going I didn't write any material and I thought I'll just go on and just chat. And it was so about four of them. And I was like, Yeah, I feel like I'm conning people. I was like taking money for a ticket. I sort of written nothing. I feel that. So I remember when I'd stuck came back to stand up 'cause I haven't I did it in the early n early nineties, didn't like it. Came back to it in sort of two thousand four and I saw uh I talked to this about 'cause I saw Reggie Hunter just seemingly just ad libbing forty minutes set. And I kinda thought that's the that would be the ultimate goal just to come on and talk and be and be funny. And I think it is I think that's more you know, I mean there's lots more authentic. There's lots of theories about what comedy is and what's the best kind of comedy and all that sort of stuff. But I think a really great comedian should be able to come on you know, to come on stage and just I saw Billy Connolly. Yeah, I think I think I met you beforehand, but when we went to see Billy Conley at the Apollo. Right, yes, maybe. And he just w just chatted for like two hours. And also started stories. That was that frustrated me though. He started stories, he was like, I'll come back to that and didn't come back to it and I really wanted to go tell me about them the crocodile thing. But often he did come what I liked about it, he did you you might be right that sometimes he didn't come back to it. But like often like half an hour later he would come back to the thing that he said he would come back to which I really like. But I think it does it you know, w who knows how much that scripted and how much that wasn't scripted, but I think it is there's something uh authentic about I mean it's more authentic I think, you know, about because otherwise it's you're you're sort of doing a play which is not a bad thing. But it's not one Edinburgh like doing my previews and I think it was called it was for uh Tiny Me where I was doing that th but I I think Bitchcraft's probably an extension of Tiny Me 'cause it was like about all the different things you are like, you know, mother, daughter, sister, you know, aunt, cousin, wife, ex wife, all the sort of different um and I was trying to remember 'cause I wanted to have a wee lesson at the end of it, but how 'cause I really believe that little tiny actions have massive m like ramification. Like even if you look at um I can't remember the girl, um is it Perez who brought in the upskirting? 'Cause Perez, it isn't it's Car Caroline Credo Perez. Credo Perez, that's it, Caroline. So she brought in that upskirting, she she campaigned for that, made it a a criminal offence. France went, Oh that's a great idea. They instigated it. Uh Giselle Pellico's husband got done for upskirting. Yes. And if he hadn't been done for that, they wouldn't know the extent of his crimes. So that feels like a small thing. And I do feel like all these small things can just sort of roll out, even if you don't think you're making any difference at all. Yeah, it's a very good point. I mean it's crazy, isn't it, that we lived in a world where that wasn't seen as that th that wasn't. Yeah. But you know But um for the for for the upskirting I mean to begin with, but obviously everything else is flipp This isn't it. It is, it's fine, but it's fine. And that is a really that's a really good point. And you know, I think it's about positivity and trying to do it. Or doing something. Yeah, doing something. Do something rather than doing I mean you can do something positive and then it turns out disastrous. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. it's not I don't sadly I don't think there is someone keeping a score and making sure it's fair. But I think on the whole I mean that's why karma works because on the whole, if I if uh if you're if you behave nice and people are more likely to behave nice and you're not you feel nice. Like you smile to do. Like even like but that coff paying it forward and like getting an extra coffee in a coffee shop is just a nice thing to do. Yes. Yeah. And then you get a nice warm feeling in your tummy. Yeah. That is nice. Or smug, whichever one you want to go for. So what are we looking at your pla uh are you doing Edinburgh this year? I'm not I was gonna do it. But I'm gonna come and just go you've made a wish, you must make wishes. That's that's magic. Made wishes. Yeah, you make wishes every year, don't you? For my birthday. You light a candle, you make a wish and you blow it out. That's a spell, Richard. I don't think I've done it for a while. I bet you have done. You might sit at the traffic lights and do an incantation waiting for the traffic lights to shit. I'll give anything a go. I'll give anything a go. If it works in my favour, I'll give it a crack. There's no harm we see th the same thing. There's no harm in trying something. And then if it works out you're like I did that , loads of crazy loads of crazy shit happens in the world and it feels you know, I think it's i even if it it doesn't even if it isn't magic, often it feels like magic or like you've made something happen or you've thought about something and then something parallel occurs. I do that a lot. I think of people and then they just they just turn up.