Final Thoughts and Book Recommendations

Hi Rat fans. Thankks for downloading the podcast. Thanks to everyone who came to the Droit Witch and St. Alban's gigs, which were fantastic. Look the big news is coming up we're at the Edinburgh fringe doing Rhllistterur From the fifth of August to the sixteenth of August, there's two shows on the eighth and ninth. They're all at St three except for those later shows at five thirty which are at W Edinburgh, which is another stand venue. The regular shows at two o'clock. tickets are available go to richchain d. com slash rllustter p And book now, especially if you want to come on the weekends where tickets are selling fast I am going to start booking guests this week and you'll be able to see The confirmed guests on that website as well. So book ahead It's lots of fun. We had loads of fun last year we should be creating Enough podcasts to see us through to the end of the year. After that, what's gonna to happen Sure, my find friends sure Anyway, sit back, relax, Enjoy another episode Of whatever Flickking podcast you're listening to. Hello, welcome to another Raap book club. This week I have been reading Get Ahead of Being Dead by Evie King if that is a real. this isn't the I like this. I like it.'s nice. I like the cover like the if just I don't even have the title on myite album. Yeah I I'm joined by Evie King right now. Hello, nice to see you. Hello. We know each other quite well. We do.'re in the guise of your real life D we have a We've been on before which we will mention the book Did we talk about last time why you have gone for a pseudonym? We did briefly. Yeah and why it was Evie King first question, the answer is I'll do it in two stages, to put a little bit of respectful distance between myself my day job, which I still do., which is carrying out funerals for people with no family or money obviously want to keep a little bit of distance. It's easy to find out who I am, but I don't think anyone cares enough to do so. And secondly, in order to think of a name, I just smushhed together my two grandma's names. That was nice. So Evelyn I' always fancicy that name all than my own. Nicket. Evelyn's good. Yeah thanking the other one. Yeah. S sounds more bookish, Do does all three? I think it's nice. It's nice to choose a different name. I't I I used to call myself not really not seriously HG is the chemical symbol for mercury I sometimes call myself Richard Mercury collge. And I think maybe I should bring that in the a pseonym Richard then it becomes Dick Mercury, which sounds like a different Yes. veryounds like. It sounds like you're exuding something that shouldn't be up there. they'd be having a cock like a thermometer. Let's not get onto it this. like the armpit for the sunscreen. It's quite a good question. I might keep that. would you rather the thermometer It's good. good to think J need to think of something else. So let's talk about Ashy's to Admin first of all, which is your first book which we have talked about And how has that gone down? Be obviously I talk to you quite early on and what exciting things are happening with Ash'sad? It's gone down quite well. Yeah. It sold over ten thousand copies whichich is unusual, considering no ones who I am and you know, books don't sell that much. So I was really pleased with that. But I think I was told when I was pitching it about no one wants to read about this stuff They are wrong and that everyone wants to read about this stuff. So the subject sells it, not me. But yeah, it's done really well. There's stuff that's going on that I can't talk about, which is unfortunate But it will have more life to it coming up soon And obviously it's given rise to an opportunity to write a second book.es, fantast. once you've got proof of product and p and proof of what my agent call it? this is proof of concept. We've forgotten concept. But you know, it's such a fascinating job. mean I said this to when you first when I first read it and I said L this is This has got to be a big TV show and all this sort of stuff or a film because it just feels like such a Brilliant. I mean, it's a little bit like, u The cleaner which is a TV show, isn't it in the Greg Davis showing that it' someone who comes in after the death to do whatever they do and then and stuff happens. But this is like true. you know, all of your stories are true which is just, you know, and there's some phenomenal stories in there, but it's also just such an Interesting job. It is. It just gives rise to There's this line in the legislation I work under that says where a funeral is not being arranged, which sounds really bland., but just contains like everything myriad. all the happenstance and circumstance and tragedy and things that happen in life that would prevent a funeral from being arranged. So yeah, it's bottomless really for stories. And the stuff you don't think about, which is sort of what this book really leads into is that you know, of course this could happen to any of us. You sort of think, well I'll die and I'll have my wife and my kids' be there, but you never you don't know we're always going to happen. We're all two or three major berevements away from dying alone. Yeah. And I don't mean that this sounds sad and depressing. It's actually supposed to be liberating. Like it's not going to be your fault It will just be where the music stops. so chill out. Don't worry about it. It's not a judgment call, it's not failure. it's usually just, o, everyone else already died or Or just you got estranged or something. you know we fell out with people and you know, which can happen between relations. Yeah. So it's, you know, it, I mean, it's sort of, there's a tragedy it, like you say, but there's also sort of the books are both. reallyally positive Yeah. U and Yeah I'm really, I mean I feel like you do this job with more Um I think I feel like you do things that aren't part of the job description. It feels like you go to work quite a lot when you don't need to It feels like so you were talking about in this book you're saying When someone's dying, you're letting various people with the banks know we think, okay, well fair enough, maybe you have to do that. But then there's a bit where you say, if I find a dry cleaning ticket, I'll go to the dry cleaners and tell them that they're not worry about getting that cardy picked up. I'm a compleicist. Which I don't think is in the job, right? I used to be a p. so it kind of crashes out of everything. I want everything done and tied up and sorted And yeah, literally anything you do in this job ove and beyond because the act just says you will bury or cremate someone who dies or is found dead in your area where no arrangements is being made the end. How you do that is really up to you. But I mean, it's so perfect for you. I mean, A because you're a nice person and B, you're a person who's interested in people. And so you're interested in the story. you're interested in it's like for you,' You know, finding someone who you don't know who their relatives are if they have money, where the money will go, if they've got any money, it's all a little puzzle to be solved. Absolutely. As I was saying I do the training now, the national training for this and I've got this referral sheet that helps you to take the referral and to get all the details. And I was saying, right, this is the deathstget bit. This is the bit I really like to collect like Pokemon it' it hard it's hard to get peoplec while living marital status. marital status, by the way, nothing is data. everythingthing's a story. I asked a care home marital status and they said, married for a week No one was allowed to speak of it. It brilliant that' as data and a story. But all of these things, you want to collect them. You want to have a bull death certificate and tell everyone who needs to know and find out everything they ever did and sum it up. It's just fascinating and fun. But on the other side of it as well as you know, it's this gruesome thing where you got to get like access The bodies will have gone away by the time you get to them h. They' a long. But you're getting to a house that maybe has been broken into by the police you and you've got to find a way into them, but also there will be you know, in this book you talk about quite a gruesome one early on about you know where there's the effffluent, I guess is every We are biodegradable and we biodegrade very quickly. It doesn't take long. I mean, if you've been lying for a month, it yeah that's a long time in biology Yeah And last house search a few times ago I needed a full can of raid to settle it down. So it's not his fault. He kept a lovely home, but he wasn't found. and you just have to not be funny about that. You just had to say I couldn't do it. Yeah I can understand. But it starts to make you just realize it just it's another thing. It's nothing exceptional But as you talking about knowing, you know, you know the smell of what you know, the smell of J is going to be you're aware of that now. I I want say do the crack test on the door. takeake all your full kit yourit your shoe covers, but do the crack test just to see what you're going into because you can sort of get a feel after a while what PPE you need. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's this very it's a job feels like it was made for you. Yeah. because and within this book, both books as well, you've got a very philosophical attitude towards death. I think part is result of having done this job right, but I think I'll even before yeah, weird child. I interested in death death from the age of five. But it's sort of understanding, you know, I mean it it's a thing it is a thing that we don't like to think about. and this is why I mean so the book, I mean, essentially is is It's a way of you trying to not have to do your job anymore, you hope you hope trying to retire again if you can give this to everyone in the country and they can just so theres there's a very nice part of it, which is just the end of each chapter. There's a list of things you need to do. So it's just getting it is literally getting ahead of being dead being prepared so people know where all your stuff is. I'm trying to hold your hand for and be nice and a friendly guide I hope that's enjoyable. That That's what I sa. you're saving yourself a job, but it is, you know, it's also about The fact that we don't, you know, we sort of feel death's going to happen to other people and not to us really. it's very hard toes make that mental leap to you yourself. Yeah. You can't existentially think of you not being here. it's hard and it should be. You should have that survival instinct and you should want to be here. But there is also part of it where there is going to be a lot of problems if you don't do certain things before you die, which you definitely will. so you know you don't have to imagine that, but try and just do the admin beforehand, you won't know about it, but you'll have perhaps Yeah. I mean you keep saying things like, I'm sorry to make you think of yourself as aes you know a I think in when I talk about cremation, it was something that's hard to burn because you are hard to burn. a liquid sack that's hard to burn something like that isn't it You know, you we are. I mean, that's that's when it comes down to it, that's what we are with this with this thing and when, you know, and it is sort of fascinating. I mean, it should it should be fascinating to us all. It shouldn't be something that we like constantly No no, but it should be something G not about a little bit because you know, it's sort of this magic of us being It is rel. When you said about the bag of liquid that's hard to burn, and also I'm drawn to the thing where I said we are a skeleton covered in flesh with a brain walking us around. it's magic. It's amazing. We so. We're enjoying this bit But be know and it is I haven't done it yet and I should get into it because I could get run over on the way home. Yes, we all could we. So we are but me and Kat are going to go through all this because you know, you just think about things like I think I bought some premium bonds. couple of years ago and you go, no one knows about that. No one's going to find Do you know how hard NS and I are to talk to as well? I tell you that. Yeah. so definitely get them ahead of that by making the list that's there. and then they can have the fun of phoning the phone line. Yeah. So youve got to find out things like that, but yeah, and also you know you keep on mentioning how difficult it is for you to get, you know you're ringing the banks up saying I want to close this account and then they' say they can't give it can't talk to me. can't talk to you they't the ar of, that's not true.. GDPR exppires upon death. you don't have to say GDPR. Yeah. We're so bad at death that even companies don't talk about it to the point where they don't get it right. so they haven't thought about it. Yeah. It's not on the webpage It's amazing. you know, it's not even there. And the ones that have thought about it a little bit, it is there, but it's still the normal number and a person who doesn't understand. Yeah. And so Netflix, isn' in their interest to just keep that going. Yeah to the bank account. Absolutely. I had someone who wanted to keep sending fresh pet food Yes. until the card expired and it's like, that's not practical. That's why tyipping It's an existential waste of food and a man's time driving it there So there's all these things and that we that can be made, you know, just by having a little pack somewhere. I mean I suppose the I mean you talk about this with cryptocurrency and I noticed that's the danger in writing stuff that you got to be careful very careful how balance this. Yeah. donon't write all your passwords down please And we say that, don't not write passwords. Be really with the first section that if you're reading this on deeadlist We only just want to know what you've got becausecause that's all we need to know. We can use your name, date of birth and address to identify you with the company and a death certificate to close. So don't even worry about your account number. We just need to know it's there because otherwise three months later, Katie willll get a letter from NS and I and start weeping again because Richard. So it's much easier if on day zero, she knows about it in the list to tell them And it's, you know, it's sort of weird that we don't You know, we that we are like not thinking about. the minute you say it, you go, this is so sensible. It will take like it'll take minutes. Yeah, ye. You can't unsee it. You can't unsee it. That's why I started my own list, but I've got my own little noteepad in the cupoard that says, if you're reading this, I'm dead and lists everything, all my accounts and my phone numbers It's osmosis. I got it through osmosis because I was doing the job and thinking Gosh, I'm having trouble finding everyone's stuff and no one will be able to find mine. And I've seen it in life. A guy was betiling me when I was dealing with his friend's death And we couldn't get hold of his daughter And because she wasn't a biological as in, she was biological, but she wasn't on the they weren't on the certificate So the tracing services couldn't find her The number was lost and so we couldn't find her. And the next day he turned up with a laminated card with phone numbers on and said, Look, I've made one for my wallet. It's just that kind of thing. Oncece you see it, you're like, I could be a real problem to someone. Y. or I could help them. Yeah, yeah. And what's interesting again, which I suppose I knew this but is very easy to forget is if you die without a will And then and they can't find any relatives, then all your money just goes to the king, right? If you have no next of king and it does happen, only children of only children do exist and I've given a house to the government before. so either goes to the UK government or if you're in the Duchy of Lancaster, it goes to King Charles, and called him Prince Charles. I'm still there with that When someone says the Queen, I think shes. What's the quQeen doing in Malta? Okay So it'll go to King Charles in the Duchy of Lancaster or Prince William in the Duchy of Cornwall. and he also gets shipwrecks. And that willll go to a Prince Andrew Pay off or a palace refurb. But yeah, and the other problem with the no will thing is the order of intestacy entitlement applies to your body That's fun. Yes. So I've had to tell parents that they can't claim their children's bodies. Wow. And they won't accept that. It's taken five days of calls of coaxing and of explaining and how are you at an hour on the phone each time to just chat. Yeah to eventually get it to understand that It goes spouse, child, parent, sibling, your third. It seems crazy. If I told you your children and you can't blame them, that'd be like, No, I invented them. They are mine. But the ex husband of this person I was dealing with ended up being the claimant. Right. The horror becausecause if you have children under sixteen The ex becomes the children de facto. Right. Parents out in the cold, they hate each other. It was the worst week of my life. It was just horrible, so much pain. Yeah. So that's why it's worth making it very clear. Eecutor. will. I mean, does it have to I if you just wrote down in your little book saying I want my money to go to this person, would that help or not? sometimes things. I think you can get DIY kits if they're properly sort of witnessed Yeah But I would go for a proper even if it's just a free will from a charity, something that's properly cited. Sometimes they find paper bags. wasasn't it Whitney Houston or someone and Sean Hugher. There was There was a big thing about Sean Hugh who this took a long time to say it, didnn't it? And then he wanted to go to charity, but it took a long time. I I think the family also wanted to go to charity but it still took a long. It takes a long time to put to get through. Yeah. But I think there was one where someone found a will down the side of it, like something written, I want my money to go And they managed to make that legal, I think. It's nice to have that written down and maybe we can work with it. yeah. But you might as well do you might as well do the full long It doesn't cost all that much to do If you do will aid every November, solicitors do them for a nominal amount that goes to charity. like I say free wills from charities, Dtyself kits probably still out there. I used see them in WH Smith when that was a thing Be you do not want your money to go to your ex partner who you hate. No, I don't. I'm sure Katie's listening to. You're sort. Katie's gonna still have the money even if she doesn't like me anymore U So yeah, so look these things are like incredibly important and and you know, to go it goes into You know, obviously instructions for your funeral as well and what kind of Burial or you know, disposal disisposal You want Yeah. Which is again, is something I think most people wouldn't really might have thought about or might not really say. You don't have aspirations really do to be disposed of? Well, I want to be I would I'd quite like to be buried in Hitchens cemetery just because I've wght around the. Yes I've been reading your adventures around the would like to be buried underneath one of my canens in my stone clearing field like it's a pyramid. Gosh we should do that Bill. That I could I could I could yeah, we could maybe build a cann in Hitchen Cemetery or we could throw some of my ashes onto that but I've not written it down anywhere. I've not I've said it Do it count if I say it on here? It's none. do you go and listen? I will do If I still alive, I will do it. But yeah, I like because you go into whether it's possible to have a Viking funeral, which is not? Not really. Not in this country, No open pyres. Can you do it in Viking countries are they still in Scandin? I'll have a tour the world and see what's possible for the next book. So you talk about U You say the solution to it is to put the ashes in a bonfire and then set fire to so someone shoots a Bw Calllender had that kind he's an undertaker and he had someone's actuallyh's place in a bonfire and then everyone could fire fiery arrows at ro. So that's sort of sort of a fire ritual you can't get you can't do them on a boat just their body. And we can't leave you out like a sky burial you know exposure There's certain things, unfortunately that are off the table. And so what do there's a couple of things that aren't quite legal yet that you're interested in. They're not taking. They're not illegal. They're in this liminal space where they're not illegal. There isn't a framework. A statutory framework. So actually they're so nearly legal that the co op was trying to set up acquamation two years ago. had to give up because of all the permits you need for water and things. So tell us what aclamation is. Acqulamation, if you read tabloids, is called boil in the bag funal,' because everyone overreacts to everything that's new If you'd invented cremation today, they'd call them like pizza oubven funeral. they're going to burn you. because this is water and alkaline and the basically the organic material that's sloughed off you, you know your flesh and your organs go down in pure water into the drainage, it's seen as like you're going flush down the drain. But really you're going up in smoke bones the bones then get. The bones that then get turned to dust with the cremulator. And when I posted about this because there's moreoral panic about it I was saying, o, it's okay. Desmond two two had one, relelax. and someone replied, Well I was okay with it until I heard about the cremulator. And I said to them, Well you'll meet that at the crematorium because your bones are only so organic. They're mineral So I think they're seventy percent not organic. And they will need a bit extra help so you get put into the cremulator and crushed into a dust. and then sved a little bit to get the bits the bits out. All of your spare parts like your hip joints go into a recycling box. It's very efficient and recycled. I've actually got a you mean byse? head metal They going into the metal recycling. I actually got a metal key chain in the shape of a hip bone from hip bone recycling. It's very weird. You get this merch at conference. But yeah, so you'll have all it's like a nice warm bath. you just get put in it all slops off and then you get put into a fine dust and it's ten times less carbon than cremation. So it should in time replace ation I think. Yeah. I mean, it's sort of weird to have any pray. I mean, as long as people aren't eating your flesh without you want to. As long as no one's being disrespectful to your body, I would say it's smine. you know, it' always a possibility. Yeah, becausecause funerals are fifty well, we never know. Funerals are fifty percent ritual and the person Yeah. But let's face it, they are fifty percent disposing And you can't dress that up and can't find of a cute way of doing it. There's no nice way. Even burial is I don't like to think of myself as buried. I don't like I meanone's nice. I mean again, it's very hard to divorce yourself. You're not alive. make that leap. but it very difficult to make the leap evenven when you think, o, I'll be dead and'll there's nothing, but I'll be sitting in the corner of nothing looking at. thinking I'm bored or is unpleasant. Yeah You've got to stop thinking of yourself as alive Unfortunately While you're alive, you can't not be alive and you know everything's in there, isn't it? It's only when you have a nice general anesthetic that you get that peace. Yeah. well that's exactly what made me not reallyally scared of death anymore? was that was the first time I had an aesthetic it was my operation And just the peaceful way. I mean, you're on Morphy and everything, so it's not quite accurate But you just didn you look at the switch. you just drift away and it's so peaceful and you know, you're turned off And you literally, that's in your book isn't it? Because I've read a fewooks that when you're turned off and you're basically everything's disconnected and you're no longer Being a morphin is kind of a good shout because it's said that the body knows how to die.. So if you are know dying, it will go, well, we'd better sort you out with some calming endorphins and dopamine. And so you will feel hopefully more peaceful than you imagine you'll feel. I mean, obviously some death is agony Your body will still also flood you then. And there's this lovely bit in that TV show dying for sex where the hospice nurse is describing death and how your body knows what to do and it'll be okay. And's saying T timee stops meaning anything, you'reess hungry, you fall asleep more, you know, you'reess awake Your jaw relaxes and I was like, wow, one day my jaw's gonna relax. I can't wait. So I'm actually really looking forward to no tenenseness in my jaw one day. But yeah, it' from what I read in Katherine Mannox's book, she's a hospice exalliative, K from what I read in a book about it's by a guy called Sherman Newman, I think, Newland, How we die There is a lot to say that death is quite relaxing in the right circumstances Yeah. and not something to be overly scared of. Your body knows what it's doing Yeah, I mean, it was it was really, I mean, I don't want to die. No And I would like to be I'd like to all I care about now is the kids growing. soon as the kids are growing up, I don't have to do anything to help them anymore, which could be another forty off if year. Yeah in this economy. then I'm sort of happy to go. But but equally, you know, it is it is all, I mean also you sort of go we're so fortunate to live this time and have everything we've got and not be being chased through the savannah by wild animals. Exactly be able to have a nice life. So to get the sixty, which I hopefully will. it's better than most people have managed. And to get sixty comfortable and having had good experiences. Yeahah. But you know, it'd be sad for my kids. I'll stay alone. We all want you here. I'll do my best to stay alone. Keep going. greens. So yeah, that's also the burying in the garden thing is a possibility. you would think that would be illegal. You know you buried in your own garden. S sounds illegal, doesn't it Fred West, when he did it, it was got in trouble. Yeah. he got to get some permissions. Yeah. Don't do what Fred West did. You can't have thought about the demise and you have to like obviously let the solicitors know for the house deeds if it's your property. Yeah. But any private property that's not on a water course and has no covenants preventing burial, you can bury and see bury in the back garden. Ites doesn't even have to be six feet down No Only about three I think is enough yeah Six feet was when it was plague times so we needed you far far away. You didn' exect everybody. But now three is good. you think it makes it harder to sell your house if there's a grave in the garden. You know what? it might add value, but some people, that might be a real perk. Th But what if you know if it's too much of a perk, they might be be digging you back up That is a problem. Yeah. And you can also one thing to know because we' at the cououncil, we don't just help bury you. we can exhume you as well. Right. So you can contact the council and say and a funeral director and say we need to exhume Mum because we're moving We can help you I mean, that could be a night if everyone in the family does that, it starts to get into a nightmare, doesnn't it? After a couple nightmare that sticing up the whole family Yeah we got to get in a bigger and bigger garden. Stay per you gonna to do that, I think. Make it permanent place. I don't know. Would you like to be buried in your own garden? I don't think. Well I'm in a flat zone it would being blaster. we just in a flower pot on my balcony. go in the car park could Could bur it under the carark Richard Yes. C King Richard. They could discover me and think I was a king at some point. Anyone fg is a king. that's you. So all these there's lots of interesting stuff like this and choosing differentnt coffins as well. Yeah, I kind of wanted to make it so that you had semi aspirations. Yeah, because these aren't things you think about. But when you start getting into the fun stuff, like instead of flowers, instead of a coffin spray from interflora for five hundred quick, why to have like loads of sweetie bags or pork pies? that's that woman that liked pot noodles so much recently. she gave one to everyone who attended and was buried with pot noodles. Yeah. So you can sort of make it your own and make it more fun and more interesting. so I've put in loads of stuff like that to try and make it like a party plan or because again, it is, I you know Funerals are not very nice generally, as mean But it is meant to be a celebration of the person It's obviously like everything's a bit raw still because it's usually quite soon after the it's, you know, it should be It should be a celebration, it should be fun and it should reflect the person laughing. And they can raise a smile. good song can get everyone going. O course Yeah. Now someone had the frog chorus as their last song. that was, you know, you can't resist it. really can't. And the best laugh come, you know, you have the best laugh at funerals when you're not meant to be laughing, but also You know, lovely thing. And when when Katie's grandma died Phoebe was like about one and a half, I think, and Katie was giving like a eulogy. and was just sort of choking up a bit. and Phoebe kind of went and got the bottle of water a bottle of water walked over and gave think she was irsty and it's just so light into you was so little So to under, you know, her understanding was, oh mummy's you know, he's not able to speak because she needs a drink I think or just said help. It was just and it was something like that happening. It's so lovely because that is, you know, that's that great grand great grandchild of the person we're marrying. and it's such a love thing. and yeah, I remember When my grandma died, we just there was someone singing out of key behind in the row behind us we were just all pissed right. I' trying not to laugh. We're all just pissing ourselves at this kind of terrible singing behind us. Well life doesn't go away. People think like in films or something, it's going be all like you guys see a funeral in a film. everyone's really involved and everyone's really sad, but you will be itchy and you will be hungry and you will be thinking, what am I doing later? Am I out at six or So your brain just keeps going back to life. It's really hard to stay focused. It's just irresistible. lifeife just keeps pulling you back. Yes. And think you know it's an interesting Every time you go to funeral, the more you go to, the more you think about past ones and future ones and think about your own one But you know, the range of emotions, I remember Sean Hugh's funeral, I experienced you sometimes get this with a laugh, right when you feel the laugh kind of coming towards you and going away and you feel the emotion of it rather than the sound of it But there was just a wave of grief that went just at one point that something must have been said that was I could feel this wave of grief coming tos me and it hit me then I was just like in tears out of nowhere But I think sort of everyone was and it was just this sort of powerful shared It's great. M way. Yeah, I mean, it's know, it's hey, it's amazing for that person to have fakened your life to acknowledge that, but also yeah, it sort of this shared thing. So it is it is weird when it's I mean increasingly it's not it's not a sort of somber thing I think I think you' right isn't. In increasingly there's usually But that is what I love because I'm really Keed into my emotions now are really easy to cry but easy to laugh because of that constant access to that feeling. feellllow feeling of other people, even though I don't know these people. Yeah, there will be moments that do hit me like that. Yeah that exact feeling you described. I mean you've got a lot of empathy, I think anyway. it would be a job that you can imagine someone who has no empathy quite enjoy it But I think I think what makes someone who hates humanity really your job. But I think what makes your books so special But and you so special doing this job is that I think you, you know, you genuinely feel for these people and that's a You know, that's an unusual thing because you're stepping in, you know, it's absolutely random to the extent of You know, whose turn is it today? C be anyone It be absolutely anyone. And like in the first book there's someone who's not very and very nice person. There will be like that you've still got to you still got to deal with that person as well.ob his job is there to deal with everyone. And I had someone turn up at one of our funerals from the press got a lot of people along one hundred and fifteen. and they reported that the community had crowdfunded it, Isn't that lovely? like That's not lovely. It's a horrible idea. because that means you'd have to be you'd have to be chosen by the community. What we need is this act, which is what really h for the funeral, which is neutral and will deal with someone who people have rejected and for good reasons. I have had several people who committed sexual offences against children they will end up with me, yes, because no one wants to claim them.. And it's just that's what we're for with everything.. and it's important that it's neutral and it's always professional. And you can still find something to do for that person. You know this guy had done bad things, but when I went into his house, his cat's ashes were there. I thought we obviously liked his cat. you know in correct ways. but I'll put his cat in with him, why not? Because I'm sure something bad happened to him. Yeah. I don't think he came out Yeah So, you know, you just you You start to realize after a while When you're try to eulogize somebody that we're all about ten to twenty different people. Yeah. L different times of our lives, different people and the same same person, same year, but different presence different people. Yeah. know, well I mean, Jimmy Savill's a fantastic example, isn't it that when he dies, he's like he's a saint and then within five years he's the worst person. literally correct. the second one is the correct But he was know, he was several different people and you can you know you could paint everyone not as extreme as that, hopefully but everyone will be within parameters if you chose the worst five things they've done and the best five things they'd done that would be completely different So many times, I get a favourite of the careare homeome. Everyone's crying. who's so lovely? And you find the children absolute monster. Right. But he's old now and he's softened and dementia set in. D differentere man, different person, same person, different person. I think I said in the book, you know youre the love of some's life, you're the bane of someone's life of You're the person who was behavingdly in Sainsbury's once You all of these things and you are none of these things. And it is a little bit more you've sort of avoided being too political in the first book, I think, but there's a little bit more there's a little bit more anger, I think, towards the government in this. It's getting so hard. Yeah really hard. When you consider that when the coalition came in, they took away government support grants for councils. So overnight that was fifty percent budget gone. then ten percent cuts every year since If you do the math on that It ends up being ten percent of nothing.. And I say at one point, you know, that I do Not any funerals scrap metal licensing, scrap yard inspections So one day I had an orange dress on for a Buddhist funeral and stilleel toed boots with scrapyard inspection in the morning. I do premises, alcohol licensing, gaming notifications if you want a fruit machine in your pub, freedom of information requests, website updates, social media, I do projects, which is misceelaney. At one point our new data system they tried do an up We started call them fuck updates because every time they do it they break it. and they switched all of the holders of licenses with the person on site. so suddenly Sandra owned all of the Morrisons. My project in Air quotes was to put them back manually. and I was just sitting there go let her have it. She's worked for it. And then all of the complaints peppered throughout the first book the phone calls. But to give you an example of how bad it's got they had to reg grade all of my colleagues who were below me on the grade below me to my grade because they were suddenly below minimum wage. Right So we're just above minimum wage. Yeah doing all of these things and I don't mind, I'm not going Oh I'm great. I like it there. I love my job it's useful but it is terribly funded. And we are, as you can see mopping up that gap between the DWP being able to support people on benefits to fund a funeral are just about the maximum you'll get is about eight hundred. Yeah. But you have to be un specified benefits. Everyone else who's not is considered able to pay And I quote in the book, The Jamiraax systemstem' a fun radio show, it was the perfect summation of funeral poverty. There's no sudden threshold at which should go from being poor to being rich. And the council are catching that giant gray area of working poor, lower middle class, middle class, even four grand. It's not easy to come by So yeah, I have got a little bit and I'm going to get in trouble because I Ive already had a bad review for the last bit because I mentioned my neighbor, one of the neighbors that drove me from London, who nailed a not a reform, that would have been before the time, a leave leave thing on four by four like meters on my fence. And it was sort of the final straw in a long time of living next door to him They were very annoyed at my political views and I was like, you're going hate you won't read the second but you hate this one you know hate the second. Ohow. Be you know, I just thought when when the Doge team, when the reformed Doge team come in looking for waste Well, Essex said it, didn't they? We thought there'd be loads of waste. Yes. There wasn't really. Yeah. I know. I know. Well, it's already happening, isn't it with all these new councilors who are coming in thinking o this will happen Here we go. And then o, this isnt really boring. I know. I've got to do paperwork and one of them said it was boring and left didn't? It's boring. Oh my go I don't just get to stand around sloganering? Oh no. to do Go to the committee and read the papers. There ra enough money to do any of this stuff? Oh no. Can we sack any anyyone else? No, they're already doing fifteen jobs It's hilarious to me. But you know, I think that's you know, it's I think it's light it's very lightly through the book I don't think it that's wr. I mean I think You'd have to be you'd have to have a bee in your bonnet.unately if you're going to spend time with me in this book, it's going to be in the world of facts Yeah. and the fact is. withre skin. you know, this is Again, it's something that needs well you say like the NHS is cradle to grave, but isn't aroundids cradle till you're dead and then you're on your own. Go around say that like that true? Yeah No. No. notot since nineteen eighty four, I think. And care homes are like, you know, I Have some experience this now but careare Homes like just eat up all your money until you've got little enough to not be able to pay anymore. Yes. and then these people who have saved their money for the years most of it will go and then you get a little bit left that you can keepaying And you don't even get a particularly good care home for the money from your house. It has to be really, really good money to get a top notch care home, isn't it? So It's really expensive Really expensive. And well you also do you talk about I mean, because this is something I think about a lot because you know, There's things in when you move house, you take so much stuff with you and you kind of put it in the attic again or put it wherever you go, and you're going to go no one is ever going to look in this box. Refile that around the corner of another house. can go in That's going to go in a skip eventually. It's just a question of when and where. So that element of it where you can you know, curate your own stuff and get rid which you've doneid of a deathpl. Oh yeah, you got rid of loads of your stuff. I took a couple of rick and morty things or things wasn't Yeah So I added to your load. I haven't helped you. haven't But I'm a hoard I mean, I'm not a ridiculous hord of, but I, you know, in the attic there are I think there are music books from when I was playing the trumpet at school, you know, which I think I'm unlikely to go I might go back and use them just now Ive said that Do it now. Yeah, get them out. get them out. But there's certainly a lot of, I mean, itsort of Joh Robins about this, you know, he had a big bag of you know, teenage poetry and stuffes. whichich you know, but the idea of throwing away all my teenage poetry I find Unbearable which he helped him But equally, you know, no one's going to keep them unless you know, unless you become Shakespeare or like going to a museum going to the my museum. I'm still waiting for my museum. But basically someone you're just lumbering your kids. You are. You are gonna to throw that away or or Katie's gonna. Your stuff becomes loaded with you. Yeah ye. and even like the stuff that's not particularly you, like a chippedug.. It's like oh we can't throw away They drank from this. So you had to do it before they happen to do it. I mean, I don't mean everyone should just throw everything away. We can't all live in a sparse wasteland. But since I did it a clean, the stuff I kept that I really want to keep, I see it all the time.. I actually see it and interact with it. Whereas before I was lifting things up to dust them Yes. and they're not really seeing the So I think it does help you to sort of live better because I really appreciate it and I'm really sad that I won't be around forever to appreciate it. I like to see these nice things like these art pieces on the wall. I think that will be an a skip because there's no one to take it from me. But you know for now, I'm loving this. And I think that's the message of the book for now. everything's for now. you have to enjoy now. Yes. So all of this stuff about legacy and worrying about how you're going to be remembered you'll be dead in whatever you're doing to achieve something, it should be for now for you to enjoy. Yeah. And when you think about how many things, you know, how many things we've got Even my mum and dad have got from the grandparents, you know, how many there's how many things and there's a couple of bits of furniture. my they were artists in the families there's quite a few paintings and stuff like that But you know, there' K my venture looker dummy' has been handed down since great my great grand hopefully get handed down to one of the kids. see Ernie with that Ernie was looking at Yeah I can see that. was playing with I think it might if Aly can survive my beating him around every day because he's very old. But yeah, so there's a few you know, there's a few some of the things I made this pottery show that I can't talk about yet ye which I can now say that I was on this potter show. but there's a couple things like actually that's a nice thing to even you know, it looks a bit clunky and ridiculous, but at that that's that's a You might be one of the things that in a hundred years time somebody from my family has going, o, this is my great friend. It was made by. I know it's rubbish. But he tried. tried I tried. There's a couple things that have like, you know, because you end up doing like things with quite a lot of personal stories in them in that show. So you kind of think this, you know, this could be something that survives. But yeah, it's exactly what if one thing so what from my great granddad, two things because there's two dummies, but that's and a photo of him with the dummies, you know, it's basically all you've got from them and that's That's That's nicely. And for him to be remembered at all. I never met him. He died in nineteen fifty six. So for him to be remembered is something like. I mean, I was my grandma when she died could only remember her dad that was the only person she could remember who was called Ernie as well I And you kind of think I' kind of hope my daughter when she's one hundred and twenty five. I remember you it's me. But in hundred and ten years time, there'll be an old lady going, Oh yeah, my dad. That's one thing I find so cruel and deentous sort of deletes people Absolutely. Be I went to a funeral and it was unt atttended. it was just me because the deceased husband couldn't be told ' he had such bad dementia, we don't even know what you're talking about. And I was really sad at that funeral because it's like, that's so unfair. That love's been forgotten. But then I did a funeral for a lady whose son had early onset dementia. And when we asked him all of the deertificate questions, he was saying no, don't know, sorry, can't remember. But when we asked him, what would you like said at the funeral, he said Please just tell her I love her. It's like we remembered that and that's good. That's the main thing. Yeah. I mean, it is, you know, that exactly I had that with my grandma and Ive did a routine about it, but it is sort of weird she can't remember any of you, but then, you know, it's the love goes another direction at that point, you know what I mean? So it's everyone is it all the people that she's created and ye, you know, aim back So it's aimed back at her, but it is yeah, it's a it's a it's awesful. life is It's great. L There's there's a Decembberist's album called What a beautifulorld, What a terrible Wor That's how I feel about life. because it is beautiful, but it's terrible because of how beautiful it was and it's lost and it's know age ravages it, dementia overrides it. So I always just say to people that even if you're having the most average Tuesday. Yeah Just kiss the ground. kiss the ground because turn can be so quick. and one of the things I've seen It's beautiful, but it's terrible. It's sad but it's lovely. It's all this is why I'm constantly bubbling with emotion. Yes Yeah Well do you know it's obviously very emotive subject and it's a very important subject and as with most important subjects, it's one that no one wants to talk about. No's the biggest elephant in the room It's a lot once you crack it though. Yeah, I think this is a fun thing to do with someone else Yeah to chat it through, especially with direct creomation adverts, fooling older people and thinking that's a simple inirQotes funeral Be I've heard it twice now. The head of the ICCM, the Institute of Cemetery and Crematororyum Management, his dad died last year and his dad was an ex undertaker. But even he thought he was buying a simple funeral, a funeral. It's not a direct priss is when you are taken away by Kria to a remote crematoria, cremated and then couriered back. Right. There's no service involved. You can have your own thing when person's returned. Yeah. But they didn't know that. And there was another person in the media who was complaining that her mum had ordered it off the telly because they were going, Oh, don't you're not want tona be a fussy, you're not any fuss. And they didn't understand that the fuss was kind of You know, not really the point. the first is completely missing. Yeah. So yeah. But also the funeral is for the is really for the living the people of it. It's not anything to do as much as yet say what you want and you know hopefully you get some of it. But But have that conversation because you need the people behind you to approve to be on board And they might have input that you might value. Yeah, sure. No it's such a greatook I mean as always it's entertaining and funny, but also you know literally I mean you literally have some things to do the littleign t. It's like the hand but for the recently deceased in Beetlejuice but in reverse. Yes, it is So you know, there's a lot going on there, but I think it is it just feels like if everyone had one of these this would be that would make att least make your job A bit easier than that it'll help make your kin and your loved ones a lot happier because you can spend more time on scrap metal licenses. Yeah, then I can get back to scrap yards. Cer some more FOIs we'll wrap it up. I do like the things where you're thinking about the seell by dates seeing seell by dates on food that's outls of the person and thinking about that, that's the kind of thing I think about. Yeah It gets very minutia existential. Yeah Yeah you start seeing things like One day there will be a pack of yogurt which is as a day after your death on it My dath It's true. It is. so how. So there's lots of fun stuff in this and it's it really is fascinating and it is a subject we need to talk about. So do go out and buy both Ash' to Admin, which is one of the most fantastic books there's ever been. Thank and get ahead of Binge, which is not as good now it is. It's not as good It's just you both for the Is there any books you've been reading recently that you'd like to recommend they'll be out soon. I've been pre reading for quotes So there's one called The Wrong Order of Things by Michelle Hills. She's a palliative care doctor for childildren. so hard sell that one.. But really well done. I gave the quote the easiest of hard reads because it was. And there's one called Someone M Know by Dave Grimstead who founded Locate International, a charity I'm an ambassador for who deal with cold cases and missing persons. and it's all about different cold cases he's worked on with Locate