Future Projects and Book Recommendations

Hi, Richard Herring here. Thanks for downloading my podcast. Now you may have heard on the gown upp news that I've not been very well. I'm feeling fine I'm sort of in the middle of treatment C very minor cancer. It's not curable, but it's completely treatable. So please don't worry about me. In the meantime, if you want to become a badger, this is an excellent time to support us at goofaststrike. com slash badges. if you would like to buy a thank you Moriati t shirt from Rich and Alley's Craven News round, then head too fastter Stripe. com. and you should be able to find them on there. They're only going to be available for a couple of weeks print them all up at once when we find out what the demand is But if you enjoy that podcast, particularly, that's a great way to pay us back for that Look, I've still come to the Edinburgh fringe unless something that goes horrifly wrong in August I think that to the sixteenth and Go to ridichchain. comash for Hallispurg. you can see all the dates and the guests confirmed so far whoo are Mike Was't at Susie McCabe and Flo and Joan. there are some big names to come, I'm sure. I'm aiming very high with this And I will be giving some recommends of people you should be going to see at the fringe through interviews over the next few weeks as well Anyway, thank you very much Let's sit back. Thanks for all the lovely messages I've had from you guys and it's lovely to know how much these podcasts mean to you and that's worth more than money I mean, obviously doesn't keep us going, but thank you very much for the love you've been giving us I very much appreciate it and I'll do my best to carry on doing these until I get bored Anyway, sit back, relax and enjoy another podcast from the head and Mouth of AK Heric Hello, welcome to another Rellis book Club. This week I have been reading Death B Noir by Ollie Smith who joins me now. He is Britain's forite wine expert It s I mean, it says inrint. It's got to be true, right? I'm trying to think of anotherother w ex. Osz Clark. Oh Jill No, love ye, I love they're better than Yeah. They're so much better. They were the people that kind of inspired me when I was growing up because they just seemed to be having the time of their lives. I was watching them wondering what it was all about. No, absolutely about. There's a lot I want to talk to you about because like first of all Obviously there's a lot of Especially murder mystery novels coming out written by TV personalities. Yeah probably as a little reaction to the success of Richard Osmond. Ctely could be. Yeah. But I think In your case, I think we can give you a pass. Okay because you were and write you were a writer before this. I was ye. I started out as a writer. so I think you're a writer I can get away with it. And I did actually write this as well. People have been asking me didid you write like? Yes I wrote every single one. I think you had to write this because it's so knowledgeable about the wine trade and making wine or different kinds of wine Yeah that it would be easier for you to write it. I think someone else ringing out going. So how did you make wine So yeah, so look, tell us about your career as a writer before this because it's quite impressive stuff. Yeahah, I started out as a screenwriter for animation, mainly for kids actually. I specialized in it. And I ended up writing Charlie and Lola, a little bit of Wallis Grom at the Curse of the Web if you wait long enough in the credits, you have to get your magnify glass up. but thanks to, I am there And then probably most notoriously, I was a writer on Pingu for three seasons, I think and absolutely loved it. It was like writing silent comedy. Yes. So everybody always sort of says, Oh, you can't possibly write.s that's gibberish. It's like, yeah yeah, I'm not writing the dialogue. I'm writing literally everything that's on the screen. So I loved it because it was the less issorule, you know, you had to show everything, show don't tell It was a way of describing things without having to resort to O explaining. So yeah And then that all kind of came together in my wine career because I had a short period of time initially on Saturday Kitchen so I was go, hi. I'm here in Hull. And I'm in Waitroros and I've got this amazing wine so I had a very succinct amount of time to get a message across. So yeah I kind of used all those cues, visual and lots of waving. and yeah, it seemed to work. Yes. Well, you know, and I've probably seen more of your work than most having two small children. Yes. I did. did they like Pingu? ye, they did like pingu. They really likeed Charlie and Lola. Charlie Lola was so charming to write as well because it was the characters were just beautifully defined. and it was such a whimsical warm world to be in. And you know, with Sizzles, the Dog and Soren Lawrence and the immaginary friend, I remember writing an episode called Lolaand where Lola goes off to an imaginary land, and she makes her imaginary passport. I think won an award for. think you did go at the Montreu. I think it was the Vontreu. Yeah. Yeah. it's somewhere in the house. I don't know where it is. But I should really have that because like you know, when you see people on Instagram and they're doing their live thing they' got all their enemies and baters behind my ar have one Charlie and Lola shaped award that would really do it for me, I think. But I was very proud of being part of that show. We had some wonderful writers on it and it was yeah, it was a really happy time in life.es. And if you'd have told me then that I would end up talking about wine fricker and go on to write novels, I would probably think, yeah, how do those dots exactly s And how did those dots? what happened turn you over to It was a fellow screenwriter Mark Huckabee who was he on Charlie Lone, which screen? I' remember we were doing together. We werereing something together. But he said to me, Look, Ollie, you're a good enough screenwriter, but you always talk about wine. You always had it as your Saturday job growing up and it was your holiday job and you're a collector and you really like it and you don't believe in spending a fortune to enjoy good wine. I am so bored of hearing about it. You've just got to do something. here is a competition called Wine idle, which are looking for the Jamie Oliver of wine to go and tell you. You should enter it. I reckon you've got a shot. And aboutout six thousand people enter this competition and I was amazed to get down to the last several and then even more amazed to win it. I mean, the prize was actually a year's supply of wine. Let me tell you right now. seventy two bottles is not a year' supply That's a weekend. That was a lovely prize And the other prize was an audition to go on Great Food Live, which was a satellite TV show hosted by Jenny Barnet. And I passed the audition, went on that show and built my numbers and kind of gradually was a returning regular. Y reallyally loved the kind of craft of learning how to do live television. And there was a cameraman on that show called Lofty, Philip Loftthouse, who is now still a cameraman on Saturday Kitchen And I'm not going to reveal how old he is. All I'll say is that Loftty is he was very encouraging to me on those first few shows. And I love listening to his stories because he films like the moonlandings he filmed who was he died on stage at the padium? Was it Tommy Cooper? Yeah he filmed. He was honestly. and Loftty, I mean he look he looks better than I do. I don't know why he's doing. But yeah, so I love the crew and the Camraderie of doing life Yes. And from there the opportunities is built and it was really the Richard and Judy Wine Club Amanda Rosst Cactus picked me out for that and then Saturday Kitchen twenty years ago. Can you really leave? I was on episode two and I'm still there. I think I'm the longest person in the line. I've mean Rick Steiness on every episode doing his VT. But I think I'm the longest serving. Yeah' A actual, yes, Madness This is totally madness. Th The last two decades have gone very farast, haven't they? They really have and people still are mistaking me for mister Tumble, but if I will dress like this Then I suppose I've got it com, right? It's when London Cabby's going make. canan I just say what do you do for the kids? And I just think, really? I mean, Cabin is seing your shows? Is that? Oh, I see. I always take the credit though. alwaysways, always Justin, I'm so sorry if you're watching. I'm taking all the credit. And so you also have done a podcast and I listened to the first episode of your podcast, which because I was very I mean, you know, we get some guests on this show, but the first guest you had on that podcast was pink. Yeah, which seems insan. I know, right? So that's a great place to see. She was amazing. I went to her winery in Santa Barbara, where she lives. Yeah. And I mean, it said amazing place with cowboys and a ranch and you know working vineyard. I mean, she was so down to her though I have to say straight in there, she said, o, you know, I've got this, I'm making wine. I don't really want to talk about it too much though. and then on the show She said,ight, you can have it. It's my dirtyed little secret. Yes, I'm a wineemaker. I' launing a brand. And it was just brilliant that she did that because it launched the pod. Everybody started listening. and then we got some great guests. Weve got Sam Neil, Kylie Minog was on it. I mean it was a dream. The whole thing was a dream. And it lasted about six beautiful years.es beforefore I thought s't of know what else to do. I might podcasting seems like it might have run it sc. How stupid was I came up at the wrong time. I toally did I totally did. I should bring it back You should bring it back. because you know, it's not just about because she does happen to make her own wine, but I presume not everybody's making. No, That's right. I mean it was called a glass withith. and the idea was kind of recommend a glass of wine to the person and sort of match up their personality and sort of sum them up according to their likes and dislikes. And so it was a chat over a glass and some of them you would really get quite stuck in and enjoy the glass. And that was great at fun. But yeah, I've really enjoyed the kind of idea that you don't need to know a lot about wine to enjoy it. I've always felt that know all for wine wine for all, I'm a great enthusiast for the good thingsings of life. And for me good glass of wine with a good meal in fantastic company. It's just a really warm feeling and it's a passport to getting to know one another better, to find our divisions and therefore make ourselves closer because we understand one another the better rather than you know siloing off into our various arenas. I think one should be a coming together. And as someone who now no longer drinks I know Non alcoholic beverage that does not seem to have done very well is wine. Have you come across any that worked? They're mainly really troubling. I mean the non alcoholic sort of area is actually I think the most exciting area in the drinks world because the flavourors that are produced like something like botivo, they just don't taste like anything else. Botivo tastes like sort of electric ginger and kind of bright orange beer. It's amazing But With wine, I think it's really tricky. I think the closest I've had was what's it called Zeno Which is in Waits. It's an alhol free white wine.. There's another good fizz called Blly B OLE. It's pretty spinny. It's kind of twenty plus quid. It's really good. Okay. But sparkling teas are very good. L Kylie's got a sparkling tea and I think it's in Tesco for like just over a fivever. Really good quality. And it's like a rose fizz you know, it's not pretending to be a wine, but it'sort of there. I tell you the one ally good actually that's coming to Tesco's in June this year, I think for nine quQid is something called Belve by Matthew Jukes. and it is like a sparkling wine with a crown cap in a big old bottle and it tastes epic. So if you' looking for something apart from wine, go for Believe. Well, like I went to a wedding this weekend and they came aroundound and they had a you it's just nice to even just have something that resembles champagne when they're on doing the toast toasted with water or bit be was even though it did not taste good But I still managed to drink it all. and I had I actually had a reasonal company which it was we finished our play yesterday and someone brought in a in another sparking one that wasn't too bad not too bad. and I drk a bit of zero or something for something. L was was the guine of zero, which, you know fproof. Well, the beer is a good. the beer is a great. is a good beers is great. Yeahah. ye Anyway, thank you for that piece of adice I will get that billy tape out and wrrite all that down. So let's get on to the book Death by Noir. So how did this Was this something you'd thought of? or did some come to you and say, Ollie, you've got to write a murder mystery about wine? It's definitely something I thought of. So I was tantalized by the idea of wine and crime. So I thought, I'm going to come up this genre wine crime. It just seems to me like such an obvious fit. Readers love crrime, readers love wine. I think that the worlds could collide. And I started writing a fairly dark iteration of a sort of wine crime tale. and I realized that it just wasn't me. So I parked it, shelved it and thought inhabit a world that's grim. I'm a naturally jolly human being. So I'm just gonna wait until the jolliness kind of infuses the idea. It was like two years later, I was on a plane and Everything downloaded. The four central characters led by Bercley Flint, the eccentric proprietor of the Bottlebank wine shop in Lewis, where I live. He was fully formed, he landed. the setting landed. The structure came quite gradually, but I realized that there was a lot to do with land, to do with regenerative agriculture, to do with the beauty of the vines, nature, ecology, what we put in our bodies prevalent themes in the book. And I think the nicest compliment I've been given was Janice Hallet, the author who, she's a best selling cozy crime writer. and I don't know Janice, and she read it and gave a glowing review, which was very, very humbling, and she doesn't drink tea tootal. So you don't have to like wine or know about wine to enjoy the book. But for me, it was about infusing a sense of joy, the antidote to these dark days in which we seem to live. You know There is of course, a murder in the book, but it's done in a way where it's not grim, it's not upsetting. It's all held at arm's length. And the real joy of it is in the characters who work in the bottle bank and the way they rub along to together. Yes. I mean it's sort of, you know,s it's a love story to a lot of things. you make wine, but also Lewis the where you live. it's sort of and they're quite eccentric characters, quite a few eccentric characters. Is that realistic to the town?bsute Lewis is ferociously independent. I mean, the ticking clock in the book is the countdown to Bonfire night on november the fifth, where the whole town explodes. They have these massive effigies of people that you know they haven't been annoying that year, so you know, it might be itic it might be traffic warner, Wh who knows, But they then burn them and explode them with the most extraordinary firewor ex display. So you can sort of see where the book's going this explosive finale. But Lewis is full of fiercely independent minded and I would say, yes, quite eccentric individuals. And I'm delighted by that. know Why else would I live there? So I think it's very true to the place and also There are things the bonfire societies which do exist, but I've renamed them in the book so as not to kind of offend sensibilities because it's something people feel very passionately about. But things like Harvey's B Bter. know Bercley Flint, the lead character. I mean the story of the book is Berley Flint's best friend, regenerative winerower Victor Crawhaw disappears Barcley falls into the frame for the disappearance, and in order to clear his name, he has to use his wine detecting skills to solve the case and crack the crime. That's pretty much it. So it was great fun to write that, but also to sort of bring in my love for Lewis. It was the place where Tom Payne, founding father of America, set sail from. So there's a lot of that kind of spirit of ide the motto of Sussex is We won't be Druve, which features also in the book. And it's basically you can't mess with these, you can't make us do anything. We're just going to do this. And on Bomfire night, this is very apparent. The police very sweetly just seem to retreat and melt into the hills. and it's a cross between the Wickcer Man and the Rio Carnival. And it all seems to go quite well Yes and the purge like it's like the purge you to murder for that night you'ow to J just a couple of The murder happens before before for that as well. I mean, like there's lots to like about it. I like the fact that you apparently seem to kill off your lead character in the first chapter. Yes which is a nice book which I think we can assume does not happen No It's a series of books Barkkeley Frint is definitely. I'm writing the second actually at the moment and it's just a delight to be in his company so I can'till Barkley. not yet kill him straight. Noo Holes that'll come later And I mean the I don't know if you wanted about the way the characters murdered. I think we can talk about that. the clues in the title Death by Noir., let's just say it involves an awful lot of pinot noir and probably not in the way you're thinking. But there are so many ways in which what you can actually get killed in a winery. Yes. know One of which is the way that it happens in the book. But if you think of all of the kits, all of the technology All of the heavy machinery, you know actually as a series of books going forward, I'm going to have so much fun. E time I've just been in a winery in France fully enough. and as I was peeing around, I just couldn't help myself thinking, o, I wonder I could knock someone up in here. And I'm naturally very well disposed. I love life. I love human beings. As long as it's in proportion, I think a little bit of murder seems to go an awfully long way. Okay you think somebody does die in some wine, so yes, yes. Are you able to drink that wine afterward? how that the bouquet? There was that rumor, wasn't it? A after Nelson got shot that they put him in a barrel of rum and sort of drinking it because they wanted to be fortified by his blood. It's probably a myth. I probably wouldn't drink a glass of wine that's had a cadaver floating around at it. Probably not. You never know. as you say Perhaps he'll enhance the body. Can't believe I didn't use that in the book. Certainly has plenty of body, Mr. Bond. Next one. could put it in the next one? Yeah So you know, I think with I mean, wine has that either you're really into it and you get all this or you're a bit suspicious of wine experts saying absolutely smells of whatever you creosote or whatever it's smell We are swirling we just look you know, I think this character is obviously a big winy and wino? no, not wino. No wy winy. He's in there. He's always swirling his glass and coming with these very loquacious descriptions. I can't imagine where he's based on. But he's sort of lovevably warm with it. You know hisis pomposity is kind of veiled in a great sense of bonom me. He's someone who you'd absolutely love to have lunch with And he just can't wait to recommend you a wine to pair perfectly to his customer, but also he just wants to know everything about you. you yourself. He likes all sorts of riddles. He sees a bottle of wine as a riddle waiting to be unpicked. know So he loves doing jigsaws and he loves, you know trying to work out what music's playing. and all of those cues just work so well for him to be this slightly bumbling amateur detective. Yeah is good Obviously there's a heightened understanding of smell and taste and that sort of stuff. does give you Yeah the color of wine can you know an older wine will have a kind of bricky, rusty color to it and you can denote that might be a bit older. There's all sorts of ways in which you can use his skills to go, o, I wonder who's done that and And atttrack the t's like a tracker, you know and he's out there just doing his thing constantly. Yeah. And throughroughout the book, I mean, I've got an early copy of it There's going to be a list of all the wines you've mentioned There is. And there's a lovely map at the front as well. It's great. And actually my brother Will, who he's the showr runner as lels, do you know Will? I do know Will on the circuit. He's very sweetly signed up to do the screen adaptation. I'm very fortunate. it's the time weve worked together. So that's quite daunting that he I was going to ask if you know it does feel very much like we can see. I mean, I know he loves Burgac, doesn't he? He's obsessed still is. And I think he did that seven degrees, what was it called The Tower of Burgerac, where was the seven degrees of separac You would name any actor and he would get it to an episode of Burgerac in seven moves or less. And he's never been beaten. I think Babbett's feast caused him consternation, but he got there in the end. I think he's foolproof. How his mind works? I mean, he is I have such respect and love and admiration for my brother, but his mind is extraordinary. he's like Mcroft from Chherlockte Holmes. He's just constantly full of ideas, but full of generosity and so humble and nice and differentident and kind and wise he just thinks There's got to be something wrong with you. It's very important. obviously both great writers and you've sort of planed your own path as well. So it's not like one of you said the ladder. You've both done your own careers. Yeah, we have actually. We've completely done that. And it will be really nice to converge.. We're very close. and I think of him you a lot and we're in touch every day and And we're very we will I suppose the way we were brought up, we just loved going to the cinema and then reenacting all the things we'd seen and then writing them down and then seeing if we could come up with stuff. And it was kind of that was where everything, I think began for both of us, you know, watching Laurel and Hardy and all that stuff. And actually, you know, Miss Marle, Joan Hickson and Sheherlock Holmes with Jeremy Brett, that was our era. So right back then, I was always thinking, I loved watching those cozy Cime ics then And this is very much in that kind of warmish area. It's more mystery maybe than cozy crime. Wine crrime is what it is I should just stick with that. It's wine crre. It's a whole new genre and you're going to love it. I think you will. And I think you're right it is, you know, and I haven't seen anything like this before. exactly like this before. so it's nice. And you know, as we say it's a very competitive market within books. Yes and within TV shows, obviously. so there's you know, people love People love these kind of things to get one that people There's a standout. Yeah. I think that's right because people I think if people look, if you love reading know, Richard's books, you're definitely going to get along with. But I'm just amazed at the kind of feedback I've had. I, great writers like Ben Elton Red it and gaveing the glowing feedback. you know again, Ben doesn't know me anything in the world, but it was just extremely kind of him to do that. and to have that sort of calibber of human being saying Re great, you just think, o, that's just means the world to really does And I like the I mean, the character unfortunately does not make it yeah is it but he's eccentric and he's sort of slightly they're worried he's losing his mind' garalous know, so but he's, you know, there's this nice philosophy just trying to create something brilliant, regardless of how much you make of it or just one barrel of amazing wine is whichich is again you know, is a creative thing, which obviously wine making is a different form of creative's of writing, but it's still that's right. You want to be hopefully. I mean some people will be putting out lots of wine that isn't creatively brilliant, but the you're aiming for this Fantastic Com coming from the heart Joh Pre used to say. and I think that's exactly exactly it. honestly, I really. relish the job that I do. but increasingly I want to talk about wine producers who really care about the impact they're having environmentally, who really care that the experience that the person at the other end has is excellent. And I think well nearly said his name. The character you're referring to in the book a mysterious character, his whole thing is that he just wants to make something amazing and absolutely that money it doesn't matter. And he's devoting his vineyard also to wildlife and creating what we call a regenerative vineyard. And that just means very simply. and people talk about sustainability a lot. And that's fine. But giving it back in the condition that it already is, is like, okay, but surely we should create something that's going to be better. So for the next generation, regenerate the agriculture, increase the biodiversity, and therefore the flavourors will be more delicious the ecosystem will be stronger and therefore the vines themselves will be healthier. and the whole thing kind of flourishes. So yeah, Dandyelion Hill, the setting of this book is actually a little walk that I do every Monday with my dear friend, Dave Laminard Dogs. And I've imagined this vineyard where it is in the downs and it's in this little bowl that just is covered in dandelions, the hillside. and this yeah, it' sort of a ridge that goes around the whole vineyard. gorgeous spot in the southowns And I just want that to be something that is forever protected and ultimately thriving and natural. Yes And so English wine? I mean think it gets a slightly bad rep, but is it in reality as good as this making? This is a great question. I think that English sparkling wine is colossally fantastic. I really do. I think it's up there with the greates. What I'm really interested in, though, white wines are good also, but actually I'm tasting some good reds.. So the inspiration well, actually it's in the book, Danbury Ridge, Pinot Noir is in the book which is a pin noir from Essex You know, it's probably twenty five thirty equidter bottle. It's a lot of money. But putut against some of the top pinot Noir from France, which can cost hundreds of pounds a bottle, I think Danbury Ridge massively holds its own. So I think there's a story to tell there and buying locally and supporting your local farmers and being environmental, those things are key. And also having it taste amazing, there's this great variety here in the UK called Bacus And it makes an amazing white wine. And whenever you smell it, it basically smells like the hedge rose. It's sort of elderflower and then really zesty, like almost like an electric goosebree. You sort of taste it and you just think it's such a jolt to the system. Nothing more invigorating and refreshing. and with shellfish sitt outside in the summer, o, I just couldn't be any better. Oh, giveive me some asparagus. It's asparagus season. I need that with my backas now. Yeah, well this is I've just been talking to Joh Robbins about not drink is this is a nice this is a nice counterpoint. It's eonomy. If you enjoy drinking and it's not a problem in your life, then But know it is fascinating at all of that stuff. And I think what I like about this book as well is, I mean, you've written books about wine before you've written I've written a books ye but actually, but there's still within this, you're getting quite a lot of information about I've snuck about how to make wine and different win. kind of you know, the process of you know tasting all that. that's all sort ofnuck in there. And actually all the winemakers in there are real. The only fictional characters are always the central ar And I had to get their permission. And actually Peter Hall from Breaky Bottom, very sad died last year. He died on the day my wine book was published actually. Great friend of mine, he was the master of the wonderfully named Breaky Bottom, which is also in the book. And Peter is a friend of the lead character Barley in the book. And Peter emailed me and said, lookook I' not well It looks like I'm not going to be here for longer. and I said, okay, listen, you're in my book You may not have time to read the whole thing. Here's your chapters you are in. Amazing. And he loved it. He was so touched and he gave me full blessing. And I'm so sorry he's gone not to read the whole thing but at the same time, the book would not exist without Peter Hall and Breaky Bottom. There's an awful lot of inspiration that I took from him and his way with the land. Yeah, that's not. I mean sort it is this fusing because so you say at the beginning, obviously the wine shop isn't real. No, it's not. But it's very, you know, you can tell that if I didn't know you lived there, I would know you lived there.. I lived on Pory Street for a long time. actually. and I' always imagine there's a particular spot I won'tve where it is becausecause it's now a residential house. but it was a particular spot that I thought that would make an amazing site for We see if this so when is the screenplay for TV or film is Do you know, we've had we have had offers for both, but we haven't taken any yet. So I I would think I would prefer it to be a series each book. on a kind of in a stream or somewhere with a bit of budget and a bit of high in gloss. Yeah that would be the ideal that stays relatively faithful to the location characters and the plot. Yeah, we've been talking to people who sort of want to take the characters and you know interesting things it's really interesting to hear Yeah. but I think You know as book one comes out and book two comes out and they bid in, I'm going to hold out for yeah, defending the world because it's so unique and I'm I'm very fond of these characters and I think they have a synergy and an energy They really do play off each other so well. And for example, in this first book, two of the members of the bottle Bank, you know there' this young character called Pel Finch, who's very into natural wine and you know loves her a lot and all that stuff and then Teddy Olson, who's the county Moth Reorder and the delivery man, there's sort of will they won't they element. know, well we're certainly from Teddy's side. And in book two, this is very much kind of continuing unfinished business. I'm really enjoying the tensions that are set upes and also the end which sets up you some quite tasty things for the future. Oh I'm so excited about it. I'm very proud of it. Well, if it's a film or a TV series, someone will probably open the shop in there. I do own the car That's the only thing I can say the car, the Duke I do own that car. That is actuallykay. That's my car. shouldould we put the number it like Yeah, absolutely becausecauseuse if it is a TV adaptation,ll I'll charge them Aolutely for for using the car. That's that's my play. I'm as nakedly ambitious as that with it Well, be careful. I was talking to an actor yesterday who' in a in a comedy Where they used his like a second ampche that was always breaking down. and then they had a scene where they they were fighted to go over some someone's ashes in the car. Oh gosh. and the ashes go'fed to go over. they said it's right, we'll valet the car, but you absolutely could not get got the ash Yeah got remain I mean, they may be stage remains. Yeah weed did were they real? they were just some ashes, but That's such a good question th. what ashes do it like human? I mean, that's something maybe in the book, you know, that's book three You know, he'd be able to tell Barky about the texture of the asies, those aren't human remains. Okay. So we're just be careful if you write that don't I will. Don't have it in the car. I Not having anything in the car. anything I just no one' drinking Ces get in the car. No no' drinking No no fizzy drinks, No other drink of wine in the car. No strictly nothing, strictly nothing. I'm just trying to think if there are any crashes. No, I think it's all right. I think the car surves Good. And so yes, it is it is this, you know I love that all the different areas you're coming at and like you say which we sort of covered, I guess, but the the countryside element of Wells yeah there's a character that' sort of I suppose the villain of the piece in a way, who's an ongoing character.'s a sort of I guess he's a little England. He lovesort shooting pheasants and he would he would definitely vote for the party you probably think he would vote for. And he was great fun to write actually. and you know I love kind of thinking of tall diffident angry people who might play him and there's just a world of possibilities from Hugh Lorie to Hugh Grant to actuallyually Paul White House would a smashing job on him. A actuallyually Pul White House would do very good the other one. you know in Richard L Grant, all that sort of you know, that sort of set that you know exactly how they would perform that character. there's a line that I used in the treatment that I think made it into the book Wh I said this particular character treats his servants like family. It should be noted, he loathes his family. such an unpleasant person. He's just Yeah, there's no love in his heart whatsoever. But I really enjoyed writing that because it's just such a great thing to just kick him a lot and enjoy it. Yeah. And I think because the characters are quite eccentric and you know, it's got that kind of Englishness that is real, but also that I think Americans will I think so. That's really interesting because America I'll be really interested to see how it goes over there because on the one hand I kind of think, well downtown Abbey, so Obviously this is, you know, they love that sort of countryside idea, but on the other, they might be completely baffled by. I've got sort of old Sussex dialect Yes. Well I like that. put a little explain everything. Well you explain everything as it goes as well, but it's quite, you know, but it's quite nice to have those words. I mean, I' come from Somersx, I' was great yeah I've got s when I grew up in Somersx So I've got a similar sort of thing where you you know there's little bit of language and stuff and you do feel You know, those the pockets of that kind of the individuality, you know of England, especially England is sort of going, but in little little places like Louis, they still exist. You know, it's true. And when I first moved there, that's actually the inspiration for that particular aspect of that character was from a dog walker. when I lived on Pror Street, walk from the Convent field and there was a fellow dogwalker, an older person and he had an alsation and I used to walk with them every morning and he spoke with a really thick Sussex accent and used a lot of dialects to the point where I would struggle sometimes to really get the get the meaning of what he was saying to me. So I really had to tune in and I found that a fascinating relationship And I was very sad when he passed away because he was the only one really that I'd ever met. Yes. There's a couple, you kind of hear it a bit maybe in the country pubs sometimes, but there is a whole, I mean there there's a world of language behind Sussex, as I'm sure there is also in Somerset. and it's something I'm really here for. I really enjoy it. What a wonderful characterful insanely kind of brilliant thing to have in your hinterland. Yeah. I mean, it's very difficult, you know, and that's, I mean, you, I' supposed to talk about the possibility of, you know of a big business taking over over nice little wineries and things like that, but but you know, it is it is you There's the danger of losing those things. And I think, you know, that's the way progress goes and life goes and things do change, but it's nice that these little pockets Yeah And I just I think I love, you know, I'd love any I've written sort of things about somethingomset that've never come to anything, but it is that sort of You've got this town that is sort of its own little world. It sort of still exists within the broader. Absolutely. But it's complete And I think exactly that the bombfire thing, which is obviously true.'s. If you haven't been, I mean they try and discourage people from going. Yeah It is so well attended. I mean it's extraordinary. But it really is I can't really give a sense of scale. I just think if you imagine that the entire sky for the best part of what seems like an hour is just fireworks and everything around you is ablaze and everybody is carrying a burning cross and they're all in amazing costumes. and we're talking hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people. It's so intense, it's so marvelous, Extraordinary. It's just, yeah, you can't really believe it. And actually when I'd written the book, I think it was my agent, Rachel, who I dedicated the book to because for two years, Rachel said to me, You really have to start writing the jolly version of your book. And that's why it's dedicated to her. But when she read the book, she said, you know, I totally thought you'd exaggerated it. And then she came down the sawbon foront and She was like, Ohh, you've actually reined it a bit it's much, much more insane. It's so insane. Be it is you think these cats are these guys are big they've got these very English names and very kind of unusual names. You gott thinking this can't there can't be someone like this, but I think you know There'ss of There's loads of them. And the County Moth recorder. I mean my D I've got a great buddy who's just obsessed with nature and there's a lot of sort of that he gave me with all the natural stuff.. But that's that's actually the thing. there is a county monthquarter in Sussex, and and he mates with my mate. it's yeah, if I find this sort of stuff Extraordinary. he's gonna know that that's based on Well it's not based on the character. so it's my mate's mate, but yeah, the job The job, only ye Yeah he's not assumed. I've actually met the Cnsy Monord, so I haven't He might be exactly the same. Can you imagine how embarrassing that going be? if his name is actually the one I've used, that would be just No, honestly, I didn't know. Re So do you think the people of Lewis are going like this book or do you think I don't think there's any chance of offence in there. I hope not, I hope I'm sensitive to the bonfire societies because that is very, very big. So they' all I've changed the names and I've changed the livery. So hopefully they won't have an effigy of me next year and Although that would be quite a bad of honor. It would be n. It would be nice. Yeah. Yeah, I think on the whole, I hope it's well received. I'm doing an event down there to launch the book and we'll see how well attended it is. So far, the people I've told about it seem to be right behind it. Yeah. And I hope very much that they take it to their heart and know that I'm doing it from a place of real love and pride in theook where I live. I think so. I mean, I think it is the kind of I suppose it its own. if it becomes huge and it becomes Yeah if we are filming there' filming there and people are coming there Yeah. I mean, that's good as well. But like you say, you don't want loads of people going to the bonfire night so Yes Yeah you know it's a little double edged thing, but I think on the whole people are going thinking cross. People are going to like it. So you're already working on the sequel to this Yes I am I am I am I am And am I allowed to tell you the title? I'm not sure. I mean I know we're putting in that book Shall I take the title? me theitle I take the title. Okay, I'm not allowed to you can always take tit. The second book is called The Bloodvine. It's a very different story. It's a very fast paced story. This obviously sets up the characters and it's a beautiful slowburn. The second book is extraordinarily fast paced and there is quite a lot of murder and it's really terrifying. And I thanked my friend James Woody, who's a very good forensic I'm not sure what his title. He's a GP, but he's done a lot in kind of forensic crime as well. So he's been really helping me with book two and I've needed it because it's yeah, Barkley's got a lot on his plate in book two. And with the I presume there's an audio book Yes there is and it get is you reading? I'm notading it No, I thought long and hard about it and and you know I love being in front of the camera. I really enjoy talking But I thought it would be good to have some separation and somebody who could really perform it well. A againg, I'm not sure we've announced yet. You know when this goes out, actually? done that we've decided. Okay fine. Well, I'll you it is, No, if I'm not allowed. It's Miles Jup. Brilliant yeah, pererfect Exactly. And make a great lead character, actually.. He' do a great job. this. And he's a dear friend of mine, so when they suggested him was like that's Pfect fit. And he has that warmth and also that kind of sort of hintter lland that I think will cross over beautifully with this story. Yeahah, I'm very proud that Mars. And I think with you know I've talked to a few writers about this. I think when you've got you so many characters and so much dialogue, it's just nice someone who can really get the because I've seen some authors who try attempt to do all the characters and they can do some of them. I totally think that's right. I want some separation. so I didn't really want to do the audiobook get adted for the screen. I will gladly be the one consultant on set and say these glasses, but I really want nothing to do with the adaptation and have no opinion whatsoever on it because it has to be something that stands on its own and that's another world. That's what other people are great at. I'm doing my bit and I'm happy to yes.isten's not I mean that's the appeal of writing novels to me is that you can just you're in charge of that and youes. you know you got your editor and obviously there's help and's people Giving opinions Yeah really that's all down to you. and then whatever else happens to it afterwards, you can let someone else do completely. I mean it's not saying the hard work because writing a novel is not easy. Did you find it difficult to say I mean it's a chunky novel.s qu'sunky It's a good size. Yeah, ninety thousand words. I loved it. I really loved it. And last year I set myself a target. So it actually got commissioned quite lateater than the It was probably by about April I started writing for aun end of June delivery So I have to write it fairly quickly and how I work is I break down as I would for a screenplay, I break down my chapters. So I have my seventy five chapters and I will have the act breaks and I'll have the color coded ABCD plot. So I know where everything is and that's the bit where your forehead starts to be. But once you've broken that, the rest of it's kind of coloring in and a comfort amount of colouring to do every day would be about six hundred words. think was one thousand five hundred for this novel, for the current novel I'm writing I'm about one thousand one thousand two hundred, which is a little easy. I'm by book three, hopefully I'llve learn the lesson and just do six hundred words a day like a normal human being would do. because you much as you try, actually, I think it's really important that you have to be ready, you have to be enthusiastic, you have to feel connected. It has to be good but you can't just, I mean, I'm always a great believer and get it down on the page, but it's a lot and there's not a lot of room for padding weirdly. It's got to be quite succinct. And I try and make every chapter feel like a bit of a cliffhanger as well. So there's a little structure in every chapter as well as the wider structure. I love all that. honestly, I could see myself, if you told me I had to do this And that would be it. that would be okay with me. I'd be really quite cheuffed. That's interesting. And it's interesting how I mean, it's everything coming together because your experience is a screenwriter's help and it's helping you see this as potentially as something that fingersross the screen So, you know, that that's that's good as well. But I think it does, you know, it very much if it just ends up being a book and I hope it's more if it just ends up being a book, it's it really works as a a book you and it does, you don't you're not looking at it going, oh, this is just somebody taking a film script and written a book Yeah you'reinking this is a book and it could be a film. So lovely And you know, the characters are big enough in it as well. so that's great. I really enjoyed it. and it's, you know, and it's not It's not a genre I read a lot of. Weinc I've invented a demonstr. I've read a couple of Osmond's books and I've read, you know, is it is sort of so weird to see so many of these these appearces. It's like celebrity children's authors and And again, but the people who actually write the books and are good enough writers to do it. it works and you and there's no way you can well, it's like comedy it's like doing a TV show. can' You can't bluff your way through if it's not good that people aren't going to come back. I think you're spot on. I think you have to put it in the outs. You have to really want to do it as well. It's a huge commitment to novel. I've founders because I to write columns and all sorts, I've written all sort of forms, you know, everything. And for weirdly, I really feel this is the one for me. I feel like this is the form I feel like I can express myself most successfully in and it challenges me. And I take real delight in other people reading it and then asking me questions about it. It's like, Oh I'm so pleased you you you want to talk about it. That's great Yes, it's great., you know, there's a there's a whoun aspect to it. You know Nobody' spotted yet No,'s guessed y. I didn't I didn't didnt I it's, you know, you don't want it to be so difficult is impossible. No I want it to be so easy. it's So, you know, and that's again, that's a very difficult sweet spot to get. I see, I don't think Osmond gets that. I think Osmond's is too hard. Osmond's you never get. You're never going to get it. They're very I do like Richard Osman. he's very Oh, he's amazing. I think he could survive even if I didn't like him. I of give you all right. but I do like his stuff. But yeah, this is really terrific. I ask everyone if they've read anything recently by someone else they'd like to recommend if you. Yes. London Falling I'm reading at the moment, which is that What's his name? I'll have to me in a minute might have to shout the producer V Forore is his name. Which is' kind of soone called masterpiece. It's a story of sadly a guy who jumps off a balcony, a young person in London. it's just it's just filigree, meticulous Yeahah.'s anmericaniter.'s New Yk I think he writes for New York. It'lles me in a second. Yeah. Anway, we can just fill it in here. Patrick Rayen Kef That's his name. he's a very good author. But yes, I've really enjoyed reading that and thats what's going on about that. So that's a true story. Yeah, it's a true story, but it's written in a very gripping way that feels like an unfolding narrative and his