Ambition and Path to Success

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How comees. point three percent API, as of january thirtieth, twenty six is repentative viable and earned funds sw to programs. point five percent new clent booo for three months and up to one hundred fifty thousand dollars. D direct deosit one thousand dollars month fund invest account for a point five percent increase.ash account offered by Wealthfr brokerage L member F IC, not a It's a podcast. It's on YouTube. It's a way of life It's gold Rosepot I'm Jles Brworth. Car the music. A again, this is Giles Branrutth and this is the Rosebud podcast. If you're listening to this in real time, it is Friday the third of july twenty twenty six Which means that tomorrow is the fourth of july twenty twenty six and officially the two hundred fiftieth anniversary of the founding of the United States of America. quarter of a millennium. And we've been celebrating America for the past few weeks here on Rosebud on Fridays, meeting some remarkable and very interesting American guests Today, I wanted somebody who had a bit of a political take. someomebody whose voice I really like, whose ideas I find intriguing, and who I listen to regularly on another podcast, which is The Rest is Politics, the US version. So you've guessed immediately that I'm going to be talking to either Katie Kay or Anthony Scaramucci I tossed a coin It landed on Anthony's Garamuchri So he is our guest today And if you've heard him or seen him You'll know he's the most fascinating and rather brilliant character His claim to fame, he's an American financier He's an American broadcaster And he served briefly and really very briefly as the White House communications director in Donald Trump's first term We're going talk about that. We're going to talk about him being an Italian American about his childhood, about his links, if there are any to the mafia about his first marriage, his second marriage, and what happened with that? We're going talk about his story H story as an American. And I think you will enjoy this very special episode of Rosebud with Aonus Satamuchri The moooch is in the building enjoy Hear the music Anthony Scaramuchci, do I call you Anthony I love the say the whole name just one more time for all of us because I Love the way you And I love saying it I've been saying it a lot. I say in recent days and knowing you were coming, I've been saying, oh yes, our guest is Anthony Scaramucci. I love it. I love the way you say. Yeah, you can call me Anthony. I've been called Mooch. I've been called worse than Anthony and Mooch. So I mean, it's all good. Any you want to call It's like TTH is her, isn't it? Anthony? Yeah., you do that. So Katdy Case is Anthony, I think or Anthony, like Mark Anthony. But again, you can say anything you want I guess the only thing that never happened to me for some reason. No one ever called me Tony for some reason. So I've never been called Tony. And yet it's going to discover there is an Italian heritage And I think of Italian attornees as being term.. Anyway,. You are Anthony Scaramucci. born on the sixth of january, nineteen sixty four eleven AM. eleven A. NASA Hospital, Miola, New York Aney Scaramucci, what is your very first memory My very first memory is riding the bus. I was probably about two and a half, three years old and I was with my grandmother And of course, she didn't know how to drive and she put me on the bus with her. And I can remember it because I, you know, it was I was Very young, very small, but I can remember the smells on the bus, the metallic smell And I have this vivid memory of her squeezing my hand in this over protective position where I remember thinking, well And I could sense her worry, and even though I was a young young kid, you know. Where was this bus and who was this grandmother? Who was she the mother? So she her name was Maria Adorada Defo. and she was my mom's mother Unfortunately, I never met my dad's parents. They died before I was born. When I did get to meet my grandfather and my grandmother, or my noo in my Nana, as we would have said, in our Italian American community And she died when I was nine, but I was very close to her. I would say that my first nine years on earth. I was parented by two Catholic and very tough Italian American women. and so You know, I got hit with a wooden spoon, you know, they would they do this with their hand, you know, you had to run, you were going to What was that with your hand? wasn't happen? That was a sign of anger in southern Italy. You know, if my grandmother went like this with her hand You were getting hit with something. We didn't know what it was but something was coming. She did this before it happened. Yeah, before it happened. And this was trying to control herself. Yeah a signal to you. It signal to me. Look something's gonna happen Yeah. And it would be a wooden spoon. Yeah, we got hit with the spoon. O the hand on the head on the Yeah, get hit in the ass, outside of the head. You know, she pull my hair So they were tough. They were tough And they were but they were great. I mean, she was a wonderful person and She' very she had a lot of Catholic faith and I think I got from her somethingomet the word for it, she didn't know this word, but I got it from her. The word is pronia. Have you heard of the word pronia? No It's the opposite of paranoia You know, the universe is turning towards you and the universe so the people around you are there to help you. And she had this unstinting faith in that and she had this unconditional love affair with America. And I think she turned me into a pro Noyac, if you will. Where was the bus Bus was actually on Main Street in Port Washington. Where is Port Washington? Where I grew up, Port Washington is a hamlet on the north shore of Long Island used Yp, it used to be called Cow Nck,, General Washington. That traitor, known as a traitor to you and an American patriot to me, he quartered troops on the on the south side, the south easastern side of the bay there Now and after the Revolutionary War, they renamed the town Port Washington after him. and the streets that I I grew up on these were very tiny houses. There was a middle class area. The streets were named after the founding fathers. And so there was a Jefferson Street and an Adam Street And it was all Italian Americans and they're all blue collar people. And Italian Americans. your grandmother was she first generation American? Yeah. I think defining first generation was born in Italy and she came over. So your mother, what was her name? Maria Named after her mom And so her her miden nameame was Defeo And she met my father in nineteen fifty three. And you know how they met? literally how they met the moment they met your two parents? They met in a place called Freddy's Restaurant And it was it was on Port Washington Boulevort. It's not there anymore. but they met in and it was like an old school New York style diner with the coffee stations and the soda fountain and the full circular Swivel seats. And how old you get of them Okay, so she was sixteen He was eighteen she was dating somebody. he was soliciting her And then he convinced her and her two of her classmates because he was already graduated from high school and he had a car. He was a hustler. He had a car. He convinced them to go to Jones Beach with him, which would be the south shore of L Island, big beautiful ocean there. And he got a flat tire on the way there and he's out there changing the tire and she's like yelling at him which my mother is known to have done. And he had grease all over his hands and he took his hands and he put the grease on her white T shirt And u I don't know why that attracted my mother to him, but for some reason, I guess that sort of push pull, they got married. How quickly did they get married So they she's only She met him in fifty three. She got married on january twentieth, nineteen fifty seven They dated on and off for the first two years. I got more serious She ended up marrying him, married him at the local church had the wedding reception at a local restaurant. Both families enthusiastic about it Uh no Why not? Well, my grandfather thought my dad was too poor to marry. You know, my grandfather had made a little bit of money. He was a core mechanic he owned a few houses, which my mother actually still owns. and he thought my dad was too poor for my My my mother was dating a Son of a judge And my grandfather approved of him because his father was a judge And my father was a scrappy poor kid from Northeastern Pennsylvania. and my grandfather's mine a nobody. So no he didn't approve of the marriage. But you say your dad was a bit of a hustler And so he got you did what he wanted. He was hard. He was a hard worker,' persistent, He's charming guy, good looking good looking G looking guy, charming guy. He got what he wanted, but They had a rough marriage. I'm not going, you know,'m I'm not going to mince words on the Rosebud podcast. Why did they have a rough marriage? And was it rough for?? They were married too young. There were personality mismatched, which happened a lot in these Italian Catholic famies explain that a bit What is the mich? My father was more of an extrovert. My mother is quite introverted. My mother is You know, she was smarter than my father. My mother was a lefty The Catholic nuns forced her to write with her right hand. It was a superstition. Oh, you don't mean left as we mean in England, left wing politically. No no. She was a left hand. She wrote with left hand. And the nuns at our convent school. Yeah. they forced her to the with right. Yeah, there wass a superstition about that as that left handed person back in that day Yeah But I say the reason which is lefty because left handed people often You know, they think on the right side of the brain, us as right handers think on the left side. So there's a creativity of my mother. There's a near photographic memory My mother's almost ninety. She can do the math in her head. she can eyeball a bill very quickly. She can assimilate information not an educated woman, but you know, very sharp, very, very witty woman My father was more of a blocking and tackling sort of a person. you know, he was hard worker. I think I got my work ethic from him probably some of my wits for my mother. As a little boy were you conscious of the tension between them Oh my God, they were fighting every day. I mean my my older brother, me and my sister, I think I said at maybe their fiftieth wedding anniversary. I mean, they've managed to put six hundred years into fifty years, you know, I mean, a fifty year marriage. they put six hundred years of fighting into it, you know I don't know how they managed to do that, but they were they managed to do it, you know, But they kept going as the Catholics, you know, the Catholics don't believe in divorce, nuclear family Did they stray at all? Did your father Do we know? I'm I'm sure. you know, listen, you know, I, you know, I tried to stay out of that part of the fracis but, you know, it's possible. It was a it was a pos I was it was like definite. was impossible. you know, I mean look it is what it is, but it caused a lot of tumult And there was a lot of financial anxiety in the house. It was one thing my grandfather was right about. know my dad had a working class shob, you know, he was u worker. He did, you know, when he got older, he did some dispatching and he did some other things for the for the company because he got to a certain age prior to his retirement. we couldn't really be the operator of the crane. but he listen, and I would never dishonor my dad's work ethic or anything like that to say I grew up poor. I did not grow poor. I lived in a Nice house. It was a small house. It had one operating bathroom for five of us We had a little hallway kitchen. we had Heat in the winter, we had air conditioning in the summer. although my dad was very strict about that. Yeah the air conditioner went into the window On Memorial Day, it came out of the window on Labor Day. It could be four hundred degrees. He didn't care. That was the rules, you know. And so he was very strict, but we were tight. We had money anxiety in the house. If my father's job hours got cut Well, then we got we felt the anxiety. and I went and got a job. I was eleven years old when I got myself a job I had a paper route I then got my work papers to work in the local supermarket My uncle Sal had a motorcycle shop by thirteen. I was selling mopeds for him and motorbike accessories. And your brother and sister One is older, one is younger. Yeah. Who are they, what are their names? Yeah, my brother my brother, David, a very smart guy U differentiff from me, my brother David, you know, he went to went to school, went to Wall Street But you know retired at a young age. He was like fifty two when he retired. I'm sixty two still going strong. That was my brother's personality. He's a golfer Proably plays one hundred eighty. Days of golf a year. he's u Yeah we're motivated differently, you know, my brother has I think my brother dealt with the brunt of our family upbringing more heavily than me as the oldest child in some ways, he was like a probably shielded me from some of that, you know and we developed different addictions. we ended up unfortunately ed to drugs and he'sycled in and out of drug addiction for the last forty years and thank God, touchwood he's clean now probably took some of that financial anxiety and family dysfunction and and channeled it into a work addiction. You a system way more normal than the two of us. most women are, frankly, as she was more functional. She went to get a fashion degree at the Fashion Institute of Technology. She's a Persal shs, a high end personal shopper for a New York client tellle, she does very well. Describe yourself now as a six year old liivving in this quite small house in this quite small town with these warring parents U do you see do you witness the rows or do you hear them happening in the kitchen when you're in your bedroom? A combination A combination of all that. I mean, I guess, you know, what happens when you're young? And you you're in a domestic war. That's your normal environment. You don't know what's normal and you don't know what's abnormal. So when you get to be the the third or fourth grade and you're observing other people's households and you know, you're a tendency as a kid to idolize that stuff if you think maybe they're not fighting. they probably are, you know, you don't You know, what's you don't know it's across the grass, you know, you know, impression, but anyway, I would say as a six year old, I had A love affair for reading.ot exactly sure why There was a gentleman, I just dedicated and acknowledged him in my most recent book, which is coming out here in the UK in September. Charles Smith, who was a principal in my elementary school had a reading contest. I was in the first grade And I won that contest. I read every one of those little No C dick Jane Run and that sort of book in the first grade. And I remember my brother not believing that I had actually read all those books, but I did, I read all the books And he really got me motivated and really probably caused my love affair with reading But I think when your parents are fighting like that you develop a couple of different survival skills. One is insulation ome a little introverted, you become a little I spent a lot of time reading, I spent a lot of time collecting comic books, trading cards uh you sort of build your own little circle Did you have a comic book hero? Well, I mean, do you have a comic book hero? You know, comic books are American mythology, so obviously Superman was my hero Batman is who we really are. you know, you know Superman is the idealization, right? and he's an interesting character from an American perspective, He's an immigrant But did you identify with him as a little boy? Did you think I wouldn't say that I identified with him. I would say that that was aspirational. That was the norm, right? You would want to you would want to be him I think I identified more with Batman. you know, Batman is who we are, Superman is who we want to be Batman is very complex. I identified as Robin, but that probably explains too much. You identified as Robin? Yeah, All right. All right. I like to be Robin. I was near the action. I was rather sweet. Yeah. I could see you with the mask on and the little green slippers. Yeah. I think he would have done well. Why'd you say we are Batman We're batadman because we're very complex, right? know If you read Damian by Herman Hessa, there's an Abraxis, right? We have good parour personality and bad parour personality. We, of course go into denial about the bad parts of our personality or the weaknesses or You know, we think bad thoughts. we think good thoughts. We try to transform ourselves or create a transcendental experience. we always just want to think good thoughts, but we're We're a complex beast. You know, there's a lot of primordial instincts. in the nature of human beings that are mixed in with the self awareness and the consciousness. And so so Batman represents that. Batman's got a dark side to him He's also bright and he's an ideidolist. He's fighting crime. there's good versus evil in the story of Batman, but there's also good and evil in Batman himself. I think that's more representative of human being. Superman is different. Did you dress any American Did you have a because I did have a Superman costume. Did you have any of the? Yeah, I I played all those characters as a kid, you know, and I probably You know, I fell in love with Barbara Eden as a kid. Do you remember her Was she they she was a genie You know remember I dreamini? Yeah.. And I have a and one of the one of the real fun parts of my life because of my podcast, I got to meet Barbarie and she listens to my podcast. and Her agent called me and said she'd like to come on and talk about her book. I was like, okay, we got G to go on a date with Bard. My wife gave me a free pass. to go out on a day with the ninety four year old Barbara Eden But of course, the ninety four year old Barbara Eden brings the ninety three year old chaperone her husband. Okay, when I show up there, I'm like, what the hell are you doing here? I thought that this was a one on one get the hell out of here. He of course enjoyed that jy. He's a great guy But I got a chance to have lunch with her at the Beverly Hills H that That was great fun. Back to you as a six year old. Yeah. in your head what is happening U Close to my grandmother, Reasonably close to my mother There's a lot of tradition, a lot of Italian tradition, lots of macaroni I'm getting stuffed to the point of explosion. These people believe in overfeeding people Confirmation. Absolutely, commommunion, confession, confirmation I stole a pair of handcuffs a pair of plastic handcuffs Cubby. of one of my classmates in kindergarten Which was absolutely devastating. I still remember to say's talking about me as a six year old. I liked ant cs I took them out of his cuby. I brought them home. My mother knew she didn't buy them for me And she's scared to live in daylights out of me. We're going right to the church. My mother had a nineteen sixty one Red interior white forord Falcon. We're going right to the church and you're going to tell that priest Where you got these and I spilled the beans very quickly. I said, Oh my God, I stole these handcuffs. You I had to go and replace them and apologize And did you do that part of my first through the grill? I mean not being a Cathic, I've never been to confession, but you go into a little booth priest is the other side. So you ask me about my first memory, I'll tell you about my first confession. Okay, So you have to go to confession before you receive communion And so I was in the booth telling the priest about you know, I stole the handcuffs. I'm sorry about it. I You know, by the way it's big lesson, you know That was a big lesson for me because you live such an easy, such a simple life if you don't steal things. And if you if you live ethically And you abide by the general rules and so forth. I mean, I've been on Wall Street For thirty eight years. I have no U four violations. I have no AD V part one violations. These are all the things from a regulatory perspective I don't even have a personal trading account. I learned that from my grandmother. I learned that from my mother And you to be on the right side of things. Did you read it from the bris that day? You confessed There's a ritual you have to say certain words, don't you? I say there's an act of contrition. and you explain. And then did he say to you, you mustn't do this again? What happened know, he was pretty conciliatory, you know, he was I think, I think, you know That particular priest who was a good guy. I mean, some of these priests weren't, but that part was a good guy. I think he was more, the more honest you were the more dispensation you had from him, you know, if you were trying to you know, make a move on him. I mean, he could have been pretty torturous, but he was he was a pretty good guy. I think I get out of that with a few Hll Maryies and an O father or something like that, you know, to sayest penance, but that's what that's the price you have to pay. That's like a fine. Yeah, exactly. Th are Th those are big lessons though, because You know, I'm still a practicing Catholic. I, you know, a lot of Europe, Italy, has secularized, but I've got that I got that from my parents, but mostly from my grandmother, you know, I still have my Catholic faith and And again, there's a great mystery here, none of us know the answers to it. I'm not suggesting that I do, but I carry my faith with me. That's part of that pro noia that I'm describing. You know, I believe that if you're, you know, the karmic activity, you're going to have good things and bad things that happen to you in life, but look at the bright side of it and try to try to enjoy the ride At school, you're doing well. Very well Very well. This is a primary school. Yeah. I mean, I'm not trying to brag, but you're having this very honest conversation. So I was able to whip through the school And I had very good retention, very good core memory could memorize things very quickly I don't want to say it was photographic but You know, if I could get through something and I get it comprehended pretty quickly. And did that make you popular, unpopular? you know, I didn't wasn't really that focused on that at the time. You know, I I was I was tall. just sort of a great irony. I, you know, somebody asked me U What was I like in high school? And I laughed and said, Well, I peeked in middle school actually. I was I was like five foot eight in the eighth grade. And I had these guys that were this tall that became six footers or six foot one And they just tower over me now. But back in the day, I was like the center on the basketball team. immagine that, right? So sort of a weird. I I grew up tall. And were you into sport? I was retty good athlete. I lettered in varsity sports in my high school. I was a captain of my football team you know, I was at that time, You know, I was shorter than some of the football players. I played quarterback on the team. I had pretty good idea. I could read the defense And you were busy all Y. You were busy at school, you were busy at sports and from the age of eleven earning money because you needed to. Did you give the money to your mother? or did ye? I did. And you did it because actually I'm helping out. but it was alleviation of some anxiety. There was some tension in that house related to money. and so not to we were in want. I don't again, I never I want to emphasize that, but it's just tension, you know, You know, I feel the pain of the people today that are really caught in the crosshairs of the affordability crisis. I have empathy for them because a lot like my mom and dad, And this is one of the things I said to me you talk about your idealization of your life. I'm sure you had these moments We said I'm going to grow up and I'm going to do X, Y and Z And in my mind as a teen I said, okay, I'm going to have my own business. I'm going to control my own destiny so as nobody else can I'm going to get myself educated I to start my own business I got to build my own company and this way I can, you know work and control my environment. Did you share these thoughts with anybody when you were a teenag? I did. did you share that? Well, probably everybody. You know, if you were in my high school class and you said to me, what the hell do you want to do? I would have told you I'm going to go to law school and you say, well, why are you going to law school? I went to law school because The starting salaries in these law firms were double I mean, this is talking about a first year twenty five year old where double what my dad was making on his construction job. And so I'd like to tell you that it was a deeper analysis than that it wasn't, it wass very superficial I said, okay, I need to make money I'm going to go to law school. This will guarantee that I'll have some type of affordability When I got to law school, I realized that wasn't my calling. F funny is you know, I ended up going to Harvard Lw S schoolool. My mother was like, she thought it was Hartford Lw S schoolool. She had no clue. I mean, these guys were going to take me to Hartford, Connecticut on Labor Day weekend. She had the haagst from map out. She's like, we're going to Harv for Be it's down the block from Tuffs. but they didn't have any clue, you know and that was a A good thing for me. You know, because I didn't have any, you know, my folks were just like, if you go to college, you're the man If you go to law school, you're the man squaare. you know, they had no clue. They didn't know the difference between Tfts University, Harvard, NYU. they did they they didn't understand the status. So how did it come into your head? How did you begin to understand it as a teenager? that there was such a thing as Tuft's and Harvard M schoolool. Well, John's and Eddie This's a funny. I told this story. I actually wrote this story on LinkedIn And to my amazement, a few people wrote back to me from that local high school. And I'll tell you this story because it's a story about teachers and teachers making an impact and guidance counselors becausecause what ended up happening is I got into a few schools. One of them was toughs. The other were state schools and they're a lot cheaper And John Zanetti was an Italian American. He came to my parents home And we had this little small kchen, was a table bigger than this, but it was off this hallway kitchen. And my mother was serving espresso in these cast iron pots from the nineteen forties. I mean, the espresso was coming out like motor oil, okay? How these people survived this, I have no idea. We would both be dead from it, but they were pouring this motor oil espresso eight PM at night smoking cigaretos. I mean you said to me, what do I remember at age six, a lot of smoke in the house. I mean these people were smoking like chimneys, okay. But there they were in nineteen eighty two in Zanetti in Italian Actually it was more like Nopoli Don. It was like an Italian dialect was telling my mom and dad that you got to send Anthony to the Private school. You gott to send him the Tuoughs, better education. He'll meet more people. It's down the block from Harvard He's got the right academic credentials where he'll do quite well there So my father said he couldn't afford it. And it was a big differential at the time. and And eneti said to, Hey, Anthony's an industrious kid, he'll figure it. He'll take some loans, he'll work,'ll I'll figure out that's my recommendation. My father listened to him. And in April of nineteen eighty eighty two The seminal moment for me, he handed me a check And it was ten thousand dollars was made out to Tufts University And he had cashed his union life insurance policy. Your dad? My dad. Yeah. so this was the cash value of his life insurance. And he handed it to me and he said, this is what I got. And I had some savings from my work And I made it work. But when he handed me that I think that was the day I became an adult actually. I'm really going to be honest and reflective It was a little bit of a long Island Guido. You're from the UK. you don't probably understand that expression. So I'm going to give it to you, okay I was wearing gold chains I had my hair blown back like Tony Monero from Saturday Night live, o. I was doing pushups in the parking lot at the local discos, okay? You know, like you were gonna to go to the disco, you get out of the car, do some pushups. You got to get here make sure your chest looks right. I used to go into these discos. You really want to hear how crazy I was? I had extra shirts in the car. So let's say I went up to Michelle in the discco, I said would you to dance and she rebuffed me and said, no, I would go back to the car I would change my shirt and put a new shirt on and I'd go back in and say, you know, Michelle, how had to be the sure. you know, what about now Okay, I'll tell you that it worked It does work. Oh it work it worked, it worked. And let me tell you, I was that sort of goomba longong Island Guido And and yeah, I was driving around in a camara. I bought myself a used car. And how day now? eighteen That's I was eighteen at that time and But my dad handed me that check It was that's the day I became an adult. Honestly, I looked at that check. I will never forget it For as long as I live, I said, wow, this is so important to my parents. I don't want to blow this for them. I'm going to Go to toughs. I'm going to like really hone in And I'm going to see what I can do in terms of my GPA and my GPA. Gade point average. You know, I don't know how they do it here in in the UK, but you know, you get A's and B's and they account for certain numbers and a high GPA, of course, would get me entrance into a big fancy graduate school But will I will say this to you John's and Eeddie changed my life because going to toughs was the gateway into Harvard. Harvard was a gateway in into Goldman, and then of course, I was able to build my career And I just want to point out and re emphasize this when I told that story on LinkedIn There were several people from Port Washington that wrote back to me and said I had a very similar experience with Johns and Eddie. So if you're a teacher listening Or you're a guidance counselor out there listening, you're having a big impact on people. do the right thing for them. They rememberered long decades later Still waiting in line Again That's time you'll never get back Save time and money with stamps dot comot Over four million businesses have skipped the line with stamps dot comot Join them to save up to ninety percent off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds, then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to stamps dot com and use code podcast for a free welcome gift Taxes and fees apply Quick question, when was the last time a display ad changed your mind Now think about the last time a friend told you about something they loved. Different feeling, right? That's how podcast advertising works. A host who's built real trust with their audience talks about your brand in their own words in their own voice. It doesn't interrupt the experience. It's part of it. With ACast, you can access the world's largest podcast marketplace Choose the right shows, the right audiences, the right format. Then watch the data tell you it worked. You're not buying impressions. You're buying influence. Learn more by visiting acast d. com slash advertise. And your father, my gosh, giving you basically his life savings. He did. Yeahah. It's a good investment for him. I always pointed that out for him You know, I took care of my folks. you know, I still do. Take care of my mom. I lost my dad in September of twenty twenty three Oh very recently. Yeah nineteen He was born in nineteen thirty five. He died at age eighty eight. Had the energy gone out of their rows towards the end? Were they any happier U no. No, that was brutal. I mean that was brutal. How ill the sense is It's like an unbelievable podcast. I mean, you're just drawing everything out of me at Rosebud, but you know, my mother back dating her high school boyfriend, okay, which we're all getting a kick out of. you know, he looks a little bit like Uncle Fester now from the Adams family, but you know, God bless, you know have had it. you know what I mean I just said if you're going to have kids with them, just make me the, you know, the godfather. That's what I told her But that isn't that human life? I mean, come on, you got to, you're here for a minute. You might as well live your life, you know? And were they ultimately going to go back to your children enirent, but were they proud of you and your achievements? didid you obviously partly, you've been working of achieving all this to say, lookook, I've done it You gave me. I've now tried to My parents were proud of me, but I think that the biggest thing for me is, you know I mean this a real moment of, you know Direct honesty, you know, I always thought my parents were going run out of money They didn't, you know, I was I was a reasonably small kid and I was looking at my dad's Salary and his income and the inflation, which has been pernicious and regressive in a society because you know working class people The inflation absolutely crushes them. don' they don't own any assets. So you know, you make a dollar and you weaken the dollar by eight cents, you'd have ninety two cents of purchasing power. If I own a house, and you weaken the dollar, the value of the house goes up. You know, you you have some inflation hedges. and so you know for my folks, I always knew they were going to run out of money. So It gave me great pride to step in there and provide the subsidy for them. that they needed to stay in their home to get the right medical attention I wanted my folks and again, I grew up in a blue color neighbors. I try to take care of a lot of my family members. If you're going live a part of the American dream and you grow up the way I did, you got to bring the people with you. But all this achievement and the wealth that's come with it because of your addiction to work and an addiction to achievement. No I think it's intellectual curiosity. It's not. the addiction thing is a mistake, I shouldn't say No, I think I think it's accurate. No, no, I I think it's important to say because When you grow up in a traumatizing family, you do develop some compulsions.. And because other members your brother Was addicted? No. My brother had a cocaine addiction. Yeah, he's a recovering addict right now. I have more than one person in my family that has various levels of addiction, whether it's alcoholism or gambling, et cetera. If you see me at a party and you don't see me drinking, it's not that I'm a teetotaler. It's just that I've tried to avoid some of the genetic weaknesses that I've observed in my family. I mean, it's trying to protect myself from it I'm not righteous about it like that, you know, I'll have a glass of champagne with you. But Im not I'm not a drinker and I've generally avoided drinking because of the proclivities that I saw in my family. and I wanted to break out of where I grew up and I wanted to And by the way, you have to understand this and I think you'll get this more than most because you're an empathetic person. I'm going from a blue collar family where my dad's wearing a greenie which is a green uniform that's loaded with grease at the end of the day that he's throwing into a cleaning drum So there were no country clubs, there were no u sporting occasions. I hit a golf ball or swing a tennis racket. and now I'm going to my first job interview at Goldman Sachs And I'm in a hundred percent polyester I'm wearing a ninety dollars suit. I've got a polyester shirt on that had like a sheen to it. I have a black Tie on By the way I think I look fantastic, which tells you how stupid I was And the Goldman Sachs partner is looking at me like, All right, this guy's a really sm kid, but you dressed like an Italian undertaker from Brookn. I mean the guy to pull me aside, He's like dude you got to buy some natural fiber clothing. I mean, you're ready to you're like fully flammable for the job interview, I' might looking at them going, I didn't know any better. You know, I'm like call my mother, she's like, you know, Italian m's like, you look great. I don't know what he's talking about. You look fantastic., I don't think I look fantastic. I had to go get a credit card. that I'm with the Brooks brrothers, you know, I bought myself some shirts and a tie and I went back down to Goldman. I I mean, I've gone from polyester to Briioni in my life. you know, did but I didn't know better. And I think it's an important story to tell because there's young kids out there that are aspirational You gott to go through that self consciousness, You gott to go through that right Passage Speaking of rights of passage, let's go back to your teenage years. Is the Long Island Guido? Yeah Long Island Guido, yeah. definitely. And the girls. What was your first experience of a girl The button was not on the TV, one that you would actually meet. Well, I know we played Spin the bottle. Did you play Spin the bottle here in the UK? Yes. of all aroundly spin the bottle and whoever's pointing at. Your wife is here, donon't give up too much information. you end up get hit with something later. I probably bottle, But you care And you end up kissing the person that the bottle points towards. Yeah. so I did a lot of that That was a popular game. Yeah It was a popular game in the sixth grade. Yeah. And one of the keys was to get invited to one of the spin the bottle parties So if you were one of the cool kids, if you got invited to one of those parties, a little spinning of the bottle. And were you something of a Romeo? I use the word advisory, given your Italian heritage. Um, you know, I had girlfriends. I would say that u You know, I you know, I'm thinking you say say say this about me that I, you know, if you ask people from my high school, I think they would say this about me that I, you know, I was president of my high school. I was captain of the football team. And I was probably in the job category like with the athletes. but I was also a little bit of a nerd. And I think people sometimes when they see me and they look at me physically, they don't realize what a bookworm I am. they don't realize what a nerd I actually am. And so I would say in high school And I think I've imported this to my children. I have five of them except no clicks If someone wants you to be in a clique and wants to divide you from other people, don't do it, you know, I would sit at all the various tables in the high school cafeteria. You were your own man, and you quickly became the mooch. Was that a nickname given to you at high school? nineteen seventy two I was eight years old. We had this very tough German Immigray, who was our phiz ed teacher And he just decided that all of us multi syllable last named kid He knew that a little bit of a disdain for ethnicity. And so he would pick one of the syllables of our last names and that was our name, you know, So This poor guy, I think his name is Kray Eski used to call him Cray and being called Cray cararrying for like ten years The third syllable of my last name is Mooch, Skara Muchchi. He called me Mooch, It stuck. I think I have it, I think I even had it on my varsity jacket Was your first setback when you joined Goldman Sachs but left after a year So I got fired after eighteen months. Now Why? Beuse you've been ring rising, rising and by then you were in the Broos brrothers You look at the bot Broos. I had a Burberry like white collar. was looking pretty amazing. Gold Sax is essentially an investment bank Yeah, it was probably the top tier of the investment banks. I was in the real estate Investment banking area. I always tell young kids, I took that job due to my insecurity And so I was a twenty five year old coming out of Harvard What job should I want? Well, I made the mistake. The job you should want is the one you're good at. or the one you actually like I didn't do that. I wanted the status job. I had insecurity The coolest, hardottest job at that time was real estate investment banking And I wanted to go to that cocktail party at the end of the school year and watch me, I wanted to have my little pinky finger in the air like this And I wanted to tell my classmates that I got the job that they wanted. Eat your hearts out. I'm a real estate investment banker at Goldman Sachs. Look at the pinkies,? But here's the problem with that. That's what really happened to me. Okay? Because what ended up happening is I sucked at the job. Oh. And so now I'm in the job. I'm working very hard. I don't really understand the job that well. The firm goes into a downturn because of the Iraq war A lot of our recessions, unfortunately, in my career, have been inducted by Middle Eastern wars. But anyway, we're in the Iraq War in nineteen ninety. The partner running the area fired me. On february first, nineteen ninety one. You could look it up. It was a Friday. He took me to his a port. was a nice man He got me a beer out of the refrigerator. I sat on his sofa and he said, you're fired And he said, the reason you're fired is you actually suck at the job. And I could save you because you're a good person. everyverybody likes you, you're a hard worker, but you really do suck at the job. You need a different job And I always tell young kids, when you're getting fired like that, the first move is because the guy that's firing is having a tough tough day too,, Hey, would you be willing to help me? Would you act as a reference for me? And that's what I ask them. And I'm going to really set the scene for you is I'm fired on a Friday night. I go to the bank on Saturday. I get four rolls of quarters. There's no cell phones back then. if there were, I couldn't afford one And I went took the train back into the city pumping quarters into pay phones in the train terminal. and I was calling people and I had resumes printed up. I was looking for a job twenty seven years old, somewhat humiliating. had Got hired at Goldman Sachs, started on august fourteenth, nineteen eighty nine fired february first somewhat humiliating. And so now I'm looking for a job And one of my buds tells me, hey, there's a job opening Goldman Sachs different area. It was more of a sales area and investment research area I think you're well suited for that job So then I called the guy who fire me And I said, Michael, would you be willing to put a good word in for me and at least get me the interview. G me the opportunity to interview with these people. And he said, off course I'm willing to do that. He got me the interview. And I got rehired. So they gave me an eleven thousand dollars severage check the day I got fired. I cashed to. You know, I needed it for natural fiber clothing, I needed it for my school dad, all the shit that I was doing And so when they rehired me, I got rehired on march twenty eighth So I was out of a job for about eight weeks The woman that rehired me or the personnel person, she called and she said, Hey Got really good news for you. We're just going to mark you down as interdepartmental transfer We're not going to have to tell anybody that you got fired. us Oh, that's great. Can we get the eleven thousand dollars check back, please? I looked at her. I said Actually no, I've already spent the money. I said, if you want to tell everybody fire someday I'm going to be on the Rosebud podcast forty years later. I Im tell these guys I get fired. I don't give a shit, you know. And so That woman who is now retired. She's still around. She marked me down in a departmental transfer But I got fired. I don't mind owning my mistakes. I was ill suited for the job I got rehired. I spent a total of seven years of Goldman and pursuing to my goals when I paid off my school debt, I left and started my own company. And where we are now with the latest company, which is Sky Bridge. You can't go through all the ups and downs of your career. That is worth what, Sky Bridge This is the ultimate company that you built I mean, I don' know, it's probably worth a couple hundred million dollars. I don't know. I mean, it's a private company. You know, when I was going to the White House, I had an offer to purchased the company a few years back at two hundred fifty million dollars. I subsequently didn't do that because You know, I got fired so quickly and I really didn't want to give up the company. so I went back to the company. How do you end up with the White House? How does that happen? So I end am up in the White House because I'm a prolific political fundraiser. I've raised a ton of money for different politicians I'm working for Jeb Bush. I know Trump for multiple decades. I' J Bush in Florida he? Jeb Bush was the governor of Florida. He was the son of George Herbert Walker Bush and the brother of George Walker Bush. He was running for president in ' sixteen. He was the former very successful governor of Florida. He raised a boatload of money helped by you. Yeah. and he got slayed by Trump And Trump called me and said, hey, come work for me. give us Trump Lord This is a phone call. phone call Tr Trump. who has had you met him over the years? Yeah, so I had a again, I would never qualify myself as a friend of Donald Trump. if you're qualifying yourself a friend of Donald Trump You either exaggerating the relationship or you lack self awareness. So he doesn't have friends. You're a transaction in his field of vision. And if you understand that, that's great. transransact with him if you want, but you're transacting with him at your peril Because everybody gets blown up one way, shape or form and but there's always a rotisserie and I'm including myself and this doesn't reflect well on me, but there's a carousel of people that will join the Trump chorus that will get backslapped by him and then backstabbed by him and then lit up by him. That's what happens, right? So you have to you have to understand that. So phone call comes through So the phone call comes throughight me and breakfast. breakf good. akast What do you have for breakfast?ders. Yeah I just have coffee actually, so it's a late breakfast I go to the twenty sixth floor Trump Tower he's sitting at his desk and he's just got this way about him. his desk is perched up here and your share is pushed down there and your You look I you you're looking up at him, okay and you're try Yes, mrter Trump. And he's looking down at you with the lips and shit and he's like that And he's telling me, and this was the day after the apprentice ended. was the apprentice finale was the night before which is his big TV show. Big TV show and Did you see me last night on the apprentice? I'm like, No, I didn't see you You were the only one. The wrings were fantastic and the hands are moving and you know everything that you would expect from him And he said, that's over now you know, I'm running for president. And I laughed I looked at, you're running for president. I said When I was Watching Fox News last night where you were operating the apprentice, they had yet two percent in the polls. And then Trump said, and I'll never forget this. He said, Yeahah, that's because people are like you. They don't believe me run for president and I announce I'm really running. I'm going to shoot to the top of the balls I' going to win the presidency And you should come work for me And I said to him, Well First of all I still don't believe you. I think it's a Wsy stunt. I said, but I'm with Je Bush And I'm not going to break, you know, I've been Republican fundraiser for multiple decades and just it would be disloyal for me to do that. And to Trump's credit, he actually respected that. Although we did call Jeb low energy at that time. and I laughed. I said he doesn't have low energy, but it turned out maybe he did have a little bit of low energy. but anyway He said to me, if I knock Jeb out of the race Will you come work for me So I' made a lot of stupid decisions in my life, but that was a big one. I said yes. and I shook his hand He knocked Jeab out of the race. hisis assistant called me. I went to go work for him. And you went to work for him as a fundraiser because that was your record. Yeah, I went to work for him as a fundraiser. I was also hosting a show for Fox Business called Wall Street Week. I was a business commentator on the air And so I had I had perch to provide some you know media for him and I had some a perurch to provide some media exposure for the campaign. So I had I wored a couple of different hats, you know, I was providing media support and advocacy. I was raising money for him. I was reviewing things that were going out. I had some say on Some of the speeches and so forth. Was he calling the shots? Did he phone you? How did it work? called him much? He called you the louge? did he call you Anthony? We always call interesteresting enough, he always called me Anthony. he's pretty formal guy. You know, by the way I never called him Donald or anything like that. I always always called him Mr. Trump. And when he became president, I called him mrter President And I've been told by many people his personal manner is quite charming. No question And yes, good sense of humor He's got a good sense of humor. He can be charming in small spaces I got on with them.'m not going I'm not going to beS people. I got on with them. I to work for. I work for nine months. I I was on the plane with them. I did seventy one campaign stops. I raised lots of money for them, gave lots of money. I provided media advocacy. Jary Kushner once said that Trump said that I reminded him of Fred because I had my own Fred Fred Trump. You know, he liked me because I built my own business. Yeah. And he liked me because I was my own guy. And so you know, I wasn't these obsequious political hacks that were hanging around with him. I would tell him what I thought irrespective if it hurt his feelings or not, I was pretty direct with him He was appreciative of that during the campaign. When I was in the White House, he didn't like it at all. So you become that cost me. He appointed you as the communication seecretary first The first move was he made me part of the executive transition committee P peopleople don't remember that. but for those twelve weeks, I was interviewing cabinet officials, sub cabinet officials I was working on building the cabinet, I was working on building the ambassadors shhips U And you know you were excited because you thought he's in president now. Did you think this is going to work? I'm going to w. Well, again, this doesn't reflect well on me, but let's have the conversation. I didn't think he was going to win I went to work for him. He didn't think he was going to win. I can tell you onn the evening of the election in conversation with me, he certainly didn't think he was going to win And he admits that even When he won, I think we're all shocked including himself, and then we had to build the cabinet. And so We were in a very manic rush to do all of that. and that was very exciting. And then that's when the hook unfortunately went through my eyeball So if you've ever fished, you know, I caught the fish But I happened to be the fish and the hook came right through my eyeball and I was sucked into the whole thing. So I I let my Again, it doesn't reflect well on me, but I let my pride and my ego get the best of me. I had this whole self narrative going. I' Blue collar kid, went to Tufts in Harvard. I built a couple successful businesses, worked at Goldman. Oh my God, now I can go work for the American president My wife thought the American president was bad shit crazy. I mean, she I mean, she probably hates Trump almost as much as Melania hates him. and she was like basically like Aan. Don't do it. You should not do this And I didn't listen to her and I paid the price And how did you pay the price? Because you do eventually, once he actually becomes president, you are appointed, what was your role? So the people don't remember this. So I was the OPL director. So what is that? was Office of Public Laison And so that was supposed to be sort of a global networker for the president supposed to have an office in the West Wing. I was supposed to work with the president on building his relationships with governmental officials in the United States and business leaders Pretty cool job, actually But Ryin's Prebus the u the Wisconsin Chief of staff, who was the foreign RNC chair. You really didn't like me h and he was like a little bit of a howy duty guy, meaning like he was all passassive aggressive nice to me like a, you know, Wisconsin Midwestern Howy Duty guy while he was stabbing my ass in the back. you know, I mean, I'm more of a front stabber I mean, this son of a bitch was like a backstabber, right? And so he was play acting niceness to me while he was like dropping stories. He was just really trying to create havoc for me He must have thought I was stupid because a lot of the reporters talked to me about exactly what he was doing, right? And of course, me being me, I called him out on it, which caused him to go even crazier And I got that job stalled out on me And so but Trump, I had the blue badge It was you know, the lanyard that you wear to pass into the White House in the West wing, et cetera. And so I had the blue badge and I, u I had access to the White House from january twenteth until the day I got fired people don't remember that, but Trump told me don't give up the batchge. I'm going to find you a job You and Prievus don't get along. I'm going to find you a job. donon't worry And then on the twentieth of July He called me, he brought me in. I had lunch with him in the study off the Ovaal. What did you eat I had a club sandwich. Trump backacks he didn'tat anything. He had like fourteen dyie Cokes. He's like a manic Im surprised his kidneys are working as well as they are. I mean' got must drink like four gallons of diet Coke a day. And we were sitting there and he said to me Uh I want you come work for me You're right about Prevus and Banon and I got to get rid of them. I thought they were very bad guys, by the way, and I still believe that. And I said, okay, no problem. I said what job do you want me to have? And this is like the height of my stupidity and arrogance and egocentrism. He calls the White House director of Operations. He says, what offices are available here in the West Wank Well, it turns out the director of Cunications offffice is available. Mike Dubkey had gotten fired or let go three months earlier. And that office is down the hall from the oval And Trump hangs up the phone. he goes, You're my communications director And I did at least have enough self awareness to say I can't be your communications director. I don't Have any experience being a communication?, Ohh, now relax This is the Trump charm, you know, relelax. We're going to have a good time. You know, you'll figure it out. We all just figure this all out together. And you know, and you're going to help me get rid of Prebus and Bannon and it's gonna to be great. And it's literally what he said. And I just had the hook in my eye and he was reeling me in and I bought the whole thing. And then the very next day, you know, and by the way, that evening, that White House opbs guy called Pbus and Bannon and told him, I'm coming in as the Cs director. but he was big foooting them And then that's when the fight broke out. and Bannon and Previous were calling me nonstop that night, of course I didn't take their calls The very next morning, I was having coffee at the Trump Hotel. they called me And I said, how about we meet in the Chief of staff's office before the ten o'clock meeting with Trump? And they were ripping into me, You can't do this, you're this, you're that. Bah I say, guys you know, you try to stop him from getting the job. Trump wants me to have the job. And that is Right And that is ego and that is general manly stupidity. And by the way, I have to own that for the rest of my life and I'm going continue to own it. But Trump might have been right. You might have done the job well. Why did it Well was your fa No, I was never going to be able to do the job well because the kn you have to understand Washington, the knes were already out for me. And then Trump did something to me on that first day. which made it impossible for me to stay. Okaykay? And I'll tell you what he did He was so pissed off of them He looked at Previs in the ten o'clock meeting and said, I don't want your filth and your stink on him And he told Rob Porter to the White House press secretary, he, meaning me, reports directly to me So if you read the press release from the White House on the twenty first of July It said Skaramuch is coming in. he's going to report directly to the president. That' very bad. Why is that very bad? Because when the new chief of staff comes in after we fire Bribus He's not going to like that You know, it's not you know you got to be under the chief of staff. And of course, Kelly didn't like that And one of Kelly's first official act was to fire me. and by the way, I mean J and I are very good friends. My wife, Derrew And Karen Kelly and myself and John, we socialized together. I saw him two weeks ago. And so so you know, it's important when you're in politics And you get your ass kicked the way I did, Don't take it personally and don't be a baby. So you found you weren't able to do the job, but you were hooked in. They didn't want you in there, certainly not having direct contact with a president.. Why did he let you go? since he decided you were going to be. So Trump, let me go because I was fighting with him So Trump had decided, which he's now executing in the second term way more effectively than he executed in the first term He wants to do certain things certain way. Some of them may be crossing the line with the Constitution. There may be some legal breaches. And Trump was literally pushing me to do things that I wasn't capable of doing. You know, he sent Sean Spicer out to say that he had the biggest audience of any inaugural. and there's nobody there And you know, Obama had like seven times the amount of he ball and this poor son of a bitch in this he had a terrible suit. byy the way, the suit was up here like this And he's at the podium saying he had a great. I was like, okay, well, I'm not doing that I work on Wall Street, know we I buy shares from you It's over the phone call you up is say hey I'm buying a thousand shares of Citibank. You know, I'm buying from you Let's say Citibank plummets fifty points. I still own it I'm not gonna do that I'm not gonna ruin my thirty five year at that time, at least reputation on Wall Street So Trump is telling it, we'll do this and say that, is I'm not doing that And he, you know, I pissed him off And then Kelly, you know, was very honest with me. It was very hard for me to be can't be You can't have that kind of intrigue. It would have been fair to John So I got fired. And but but when I got fired, man, did I get lit up. I got lit up by all the late night comedians, I got lit up by the cable news pundents. It was a Did you feel nine years later guys were still talking about it? mean It was brutal. Shipping, billing, admin, payroll, marketing, you're managing all the things. So why waste time sending important documents the old fashioned way Mail and ship when you want, how you want with stamps. com Print postage on demand twenty fourty seven and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to ninety percent with automated rate shopping. That's why over one million small businesses trust stamps dot comot Go to stamps dot com and use code podcast to try stamps dot com risk free for sixty days. Do you keep hearing podcast ads like this one, for example, but always wonder how you actually get involved with them for your own brand or organization? Well, it's easier than you think We're ACast, and we give you the platform to do it all yourself. Browse thousands of popular podcasts, choose the shows that match your perfect audience, set your budget and launch. And if you want a hand, our podcast specialists are there to help you launch with confidence. This is podcast advertising without barriers. Get started at acast dot com slash advertise Did you feel humiliated by it Oh, very much so. Yeah, of course. among many other feelings There was humiliation, there was shame There was self consciousness, there was general awkwardness. There was pissed offness at myself because I fell into an ego based trap. And I should have been smarter than that or more self aware than that. And then I was having a problem with my wife and people don't remember this, but I missed the birth of my son, James. Tell us M was this is your first wife. Second wife. Your second. So I was What happened to your first wifes Let's do with a Briefly. you know, we got we get married. We got married I got married at age twenty four in nineteen eighty eight. She's a lovely person. You'll never hear me say anything onnt towards my first wife. She's a great mom. I have three beautiful kids with her We just were not matched one hundred percent And so was she doest like what. So that's the thing. likeike Catholics, we stayed married I didn't probably make the mistakes of my mom and dad and stay married for You know, sixty five years. I mean we were married for twenty two. There was some difficulty some difficulty in the marriage And I think we're both a lot happier now. And you have three children, three childildren. And right way she got a very handsome divorce settlement and I gave her a ten year payout. I wanted to make sure that she was financially comfortable and I also took care of all the kids' expenses, the tuitions, all the things that they needed. and you know, she wass a good person. I if I made a mistake in my first marriage Big mistake as a result of the way I got raised I was a bit of a conflict avoider becausecause when you grow up in a violent household You can replicate the violence or you're trying to self parent and you're trying to fure okay, I got to get out of here. That's bad behavior But let me tell you what isn't good behavior U Violence is bad behavior Conflict avoidance is actually also bad behavior You got to get here into the middle where you're able to express what you like and dislike about something. And so if I'm being brutally honest, the My first marriage, I was probably didn't have the self awareness or the communication skills or the understanding of the appropriate Boundaries And you were working all the time. I was working all the time. If you'd gone to confession, maybe you did go to confession during this period, what would the first thing have been that you would want to confess in relation to that first? Well, the first thing I would confess, I didn't handle the marriage well Whatever I mean, marriages are probably have to probably say they work because two people are working at it. They probably don't work. I don't think it's one hundred zero in a marriage breaches I could take seventy percent of the blame. I don't think I can take one hundred percent of the blame. But I think for me my conflict avoidance contributed to the failure of the marriage. So if you were my father confessor, I'd say, yeah, I idn't have enough self awareness at that point in my life to, hey, this isn't working in order for this to work for me, these are the things that I need And if you can't provide those things, let's be fair and amicable with each other and find the relationships. I didn't handle that way. And how quickly did you find your second wife? Or did you find her during your first marriage? Yeah, well, it was towards the end of my first marriage, but I I found my second wife through work you know, I had actually, u merged in with a company. She was the investor relations person at the company. Is she Cathic and she's Lutheran Yeah so she's a German and Norwegian and Italian, but she got raised Lutheran. It's similar Similar religious theology. I mean's more or less similar. And you had two children with two two children drawing. I have a total of five children. And so this is the second But my second wife filed for divorce Gosh, for what reason and when Well, I mean, some misbehavior on my part. She didn't want me to go work for Trump. She thought I had lost my way in terms of what my priorities were and a lot of justifiable reasons, frankly. but I loved her. Thankfully, she loved me, so we were able to repair our marriage. But But when I got fired from the White House, I just want to set the scene for you. I'm fired from the White House My wife has filed for divorce on me I'm getting excoriated by the papers the cable newews comedians I mean getting lit up by the late night comedians And I missed the birth of my son So my son is born on the twenty fourth of July I'm in the middle of West Virginia with Donald Trump There's a sixty mile no fly zone around Air Force one. Deirjer is prematurely delivering She's also pissed at me. The baby is supposed to born in August, He's born early. She gives birth. I mean, it was a disaster. I mean I mean, I'll just say if it's not cancer, if you're having a bad day, pick up the phone and call me, I'll cheer you up. We'll do a comparative analysis. Okay. But anyway, I did everything I could to prepare the marriage, go back and fix my relationships in business, fix my company Skybridge. and then I had to work on my public image How did you fix the marriage? You change your behavior? I think that's the best way to fix a marriage. I think the first the first way to fix, well, first of all, I'll make a very broad and general statement, I don't think your marriages should be disposable. You know, we have a tendency to dispose of everything in our world today and I think you got to work on your marriage. And so I loved her and I sort of had an instinct that she still loved me Here are the problems in our marriage? How do we fix them? Um, I don't know if you remember Tony Robins, the sort of he's a big projudice figure in America. He's like a motivational speaker. He wrote the forward to one of my books. He called me And he said, Hey, you're you got to you got to fix yourself He introduced me to somebody that worked with him, a sort of like a life coach, therapist And then I worked with De Draw in the marriage. And but I had to own This is why we're having such a rebellatory and honest conversation. I think you can't fix yourself unless you're open to being very honest with yourself. about who you are and what your flaws are. You're not going to fix your you're going to code it over, you know Have an alibi, W me, I'm thecarecrow from the Wizard of Oz. No it's everybody else's fault other than mine then you're not going anywhere. But if you say, okay, here's what I did wrong Here are the things that I did wrong. Here's the ways I acted where There was levels of misbehavior or levels of callousness or whatever it might be Um I think that's how you fix a marriage. And also I will tell you that when I got my ass kicked like that at the White House that forced another perspective on me. It was a humbling experience. I listed all those other things, but another thing was humble pie. I was eating a lot of humble pie. And I think that made me more psychologically minded. Did you think through during this therapy and coming together Why? caused misbehaviour. I can see that the workaholic nature I don't know if you were chasing or flirting with other women if you were Did you work out why you were doing that? What the need was in you to be working all the time? have this next success to be with a girl who says Anthony you're the best. Did you think that through as well as I' got to change my behavior? Did you So this is the seminal question. Okay. So what causes that is external affirmation Okay, And so we're all subject to it. We can pretend otherwise, but we want some external affirmation, right? We want the accredation or we want the symbolism or the arm canand. You pick whatever it is that you Aspire to for your external affirmation And when you get a little bit older and a little bit more mature and you get a little bit more humbled in life And you've had this you know rough and tumble life experience like me you start to recognize that that stuff is not really going to make you happy, you know What's going to make you happy is the internal affirmation You know, I'm waking up this morning And what am I doing today? You know, And what do I represent to the world? And so For myself, I want to represent to the world some level of honesty some level of humbleness paramount to everything. For me, particularly because of the way I was raised. Hindness. I think it's very, very important. you, I see kindness that some people in my business community would see kindness as a weakness. He doesn't make a lot of money. He's too kind or he's too generous to his employees or he does this or that. I see it as a superpower. I see it as a Karmic piece of the algebraic equation of happiness. I think the kinder you are the more karmic happiness that you derive. And so those were things that it took me It took me some time to get through so understand. So the answer to your question is external affirmation is way less valuable. It's important to all of us, let's not kid ourselves. But the internal affirmation And staying close to your family and finding somebody you really love that you can center your life around and care for is way more valuable to you. and way more important. And by the way, you know, I'm here in London. I am still a little bit of a workaholic. I've got a podcast and a conference business and I'm writing books and I'm I'm doing things. So I'm not suggesting that I've have the work life balance figured out. But I do think I have a lot more self honesty about what I'm doing and you're I think I have a lot of self comfort. How you kind your wife? you phone her while you're in London, Oh, very much so. yeah, no.'s it's going okay Well knock on. I think we're the best. I mean, I don't even want to I lightning will hit me like. I think that we're best that we've been Good And by the way, you know, you gott to work on it. You're a Capricorn. What a shame Well suited for me. She's a taourus. Oh. but she's also she's got a her rising sign is in Leo and I'm an Aries rising sign, which is an interesting thing for me because people see me very differently than the way I am. If you understand the signs, I'm representing my first impression is more fiery, but I'm actually more of a bookworm and a little bit more nerdy than people would probably expect. as we're discovering. mean you're interested in astrology mention being a Cricorn because that counts with you, I mean, you're intrigued by it. When is your birthday Can you guess? I't feel Virgoish to me, but I'm much Well I give that impression. What is your Ices?. Iies. Oh, wow. okay.pies and my wifeife son of a bitch then. drive her crazy then. She's spicy too. Oh, she is. We drive each other crazy. Fight's gotta be really r. I'm passionate, very passionate. Don't introduce me to a scorpio. don't do well. No, I get on terribly well. Oh, you do. I abandon the boundaries. Oh yeah. an affirmation from a sccorpio Well, I just remember what they say, you know, the millionaires don't believe in astrology, but the billionaires do, you know Remember JP Morgan had all that astrological readings in his library that they discovered, you know Somebody predicted you died? You had an obituary published during your lifetime? I did, yeah. Was the obituary a generous one? No, it was really more of a one sentence. We don't, you know, that I died. Yeah, that was the Harvard law school, the directory, I guess it was a couple of liberals that were operating the directory. when I was named the White House Communications director, they changed my file and they said he died on on july twenty seventh I don't know. I mean, I'm still here. I mean, what have M Tain said the reports of my death were greatly exaggerated? Do you have an epitaph in mind? I think you do now Actually I think you would like it to be said that he was actually quite kind. That's it. He was a kind guy. I just said kindness is the virtue. Kness is the virtue. Hinness is the virtue, yeah.. Last three questions. Yeah go ahead. A moment Joy comes into your head Maybe from your earer years, anytime a moment of joy. My niece's graduation from her nursing school You know, my sister didn't have a lot of money. I paid her tuition, I paid her room and board. I bought all of her books. I'm probably saying that with less reluctancy than I should because it sounds like I'm patting myself on the back. I ask the question. But you ask the question. so for me, to have the means to be able to take care of my children, but have a little bit of an enough of an excess to take care of my niece like that so that she didn't have the burden of the school debt that I had as a kid. That's a really powerful, very joyous feeling and a moment of sadness Well, I mean, the original great sadness for me was the death of my grandmother. That was probably You know my realization of our mortality, I was a young kid And the Italians are very rough with this death thing, man. I mean they put her in a pink dress they leave the casket open. I mean, the Italians are brutal with this shit. I mean, I think it was like a four day wake And I was a nine year old kid in the stupid suit that I didn't fit into was probably too tight and I was staring at her for five days before they buried her, I think. That's probably the saddest moment that I've had even in many ways more said than my dad because you know, my dad died when I was in my late fifties. and so I had already had lots of experience with death. Unfortunately I lost friends of mine in nine hundred eleven and there's been a lot of You know, veterans that I know that have died. I mean, I I didn't have any experience with death. So I would say that was the apex sadness. And it's a good way to end because we began with harp She she was a man. She was a Virgo, by the way, very perfectionistic very hard on herself Okay, lastast question. G ahead. What? Is your life lesson. What have you learnted in your sixty two years Great question. I mean you know, that's it. I mean, that's the that's the lesson, you know, I think the big lesson is is really, you know, I you know, the adage, I would say is really from Mel Brooks, who's one of my intellectual heroes, you know, relax None of us are getting out of here alive. you know, just relax, you know, donon't take it too seriously. and what are you gonna to do Yeah some of it is a folly, right? orr Shakespeare said it's a stage and you You have your role in it. I think that's the big thing is to be comfortable in your own skin and to accept things in life that you can't I'm not changing my height anytime soon. I'm not going to change my ethnic background. I'm not going to change the origin of my birth It's better to just see comfort in all of it rather than to be upset about any of it. And by the way, if you were born in the UK, Canada, the United States, Austa, you pick one of these nations. I mean You know, your chances of being born in the United States are like two and a half three percent have a higher probablyro being born in Africa or Asia. and so I consider myself one of the luckiest people on the planet I'm pleas to hear that and I'm very pleased to have spent this time with you, Anthony. It's been a great It's been great. great you're a great interviewer..' very've been wonderful conversation Thank you for joining us on Rosepad Re real pleasure be here. thank you Well my thanks there to Antony Scatamuche, the Moouch Well, I have to say, my producer, Hlliot Jane and I really enjoyed meeting him. I hope we'll come back And after we'd finished our conversation, because as you saw, it ended quite personally, I did ask him about the state of America and whether he was optimistic about the future of America And I think his answer to that question was very, very intriguing. but it's a kind of postcript to what was a personal conversation. And so we're going to put it at the end of this episode. So stay tuned for a few more sentences from Anntony Scaramucci in a minute. But meanwhile, my real Thanks to him. We will be going back to America meeting more Americans in due course. We've been invited to New Zealand incidentally So if you've got guests you want us to have on Rosebud, do always, you would always drop us a line. You know it's simply hello at roosebudpodcast dot com That's where you find us. Anyway, Harriet has left an email for me to read to you. I say she's left an email, she's in the corner of the room waving it at me. It says it's from Mark Brammelt And he writes, Dear, Harriet and Giles. I recently went through a prolonged period of recovery After eye surgery whichich meant that I couldn't read or watch television This led me to your brilliant podcast, which helped me through a difficult time. Thank you Although born in the UK, I've spent most of my adult life abroad And gally live in very rural Brazil It was therefore a joy to hear your beautiful voice, Chiles, which reminds me of the way that people spoke Chanted I'm now he's obviously much older than he sounds, Late Victorian My voice incidentally, I think, is Edwardian. My father was born in nineteen ten and I sound exactly like him You imagine what it must be like for my son Wh sounds exactly like me. Sounding like an idard him O perhaps it doesn't m He's a lawyer Okay I'm now better And the eyes are working. Oh, that's Blliant news,mark. Well done. I'm now better and eyes are working, but continue to follow you and have worked my way through the past guests I live on a remote farm that is connected by badly maintained Tracks five miles away I often listen to your podcasts in the car and usually pick up local people on the way whose first hearing of English is often Your voice How wonderful I know that you ask about first memories So I thought I would tell you mine My father was a rudal Dean in Wiltshire seventies I can remember a meeting very important priests at our vicarage. Phaps even including Bishop of Ramsbury When I decided to push my pushrolley over their very shiny shoed feet as they sat, ready for a meeting. I can remember them being quite annoyed by this which made me determined to complete the circle of feet ahead of me This was in the day when children were still seen N not heard I don't mean a fan Your andilly, Mark Bramelt Well, Mark, I'm now your number one fan I can see it The royal Dan, the Bishop the archdacon, the Prescenta from the local cathedral, the new aspiring vicar, all sitting in a circle, waiting for the meeting to begin in comes this child with its pushchair and solemnly goes over each pair of shiny shoes. Well done you. That's a lovely memory Thank you so much, and I'm very excited to think there will be Brazilian people who are being introduced to the English language through me Let's finish now. So here as a post script is a little touch, a little extra touch of Antony S Galamutri Thank you for your company. and if you are an American Congratulations on your two hundred fiftieth birthday Harriet and I are sending you very best wishes. We love your country. We look forward very much to coming back soon Meanwhile, A last word Anntony Scaramuchci. for him. We'll simply cue the music We're putting this out around the fourth of July. Okay two hundred and fifty years after the founding of the United States of America. Are you a proud American? and are you optimistic