Final Thoughts on Potential Accomplices

Atention all fabulous, thriving and gorgeous quueens. It's time to grab your favorite look gloss because Mavis Beaumont is back. The final season of sururvival of the Thickest arrives july second. Watch our favorite plus sized fashion Eista, cononquer her career, find true love, and step into her dream life. Plus, the guest list is stacked with comedy and fashion icons like Wanda Sykes, Ice T, and Jen All Liions. Don't miss the ultimate happy ending The finale season of sururvival of the Thgest, july second only on Netflix. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like showing up for movie night ready for a heart pounding thriller but getting a three hour documentary on lawn care. That's kind of like insurance. Insurance may all seem the same on the surface, but when it comes to getting the help you need, Statefarm is the real deal You wouldn't settle for a snooze fest when you came for a thrill ride. So don't settle for just any insurance when they're state farm Like a good neighbor, State fararm is there Bada be, but Two songs are released two days before David's arrest One is titled Imaginary Love This song itself is not moody, like you would imagine with a title like that. It's kind of an upbeat song with lyrics that read, jump out of them clothes and jump into my life Let's sweat it out till it's too hot tonight. Tell me when you dream do you see me, me me. Then a few days later, another song comes out titled S Asteris X. The lyrics are exactly what you imagine. Girl, you're sexy as a motherfucker because you're sexy like no other girl, can't get enough. D't let no one say nothing because you're bad as fuck. From heaven you fell, dancing all on my tongue, but don't kiss and tell. These songs have been heavily discussed on forums talking about singer David's arrest and all about this case of the fourteen year old girl that was found in the front trunk of his Tesla back last year David has just been arrested and these songs are released exactly around that time But they're not released by David They're released by another singer Kara Kova This is a stage name and the real individual, the musician behind That stage name is Caleb Burke. David Anthony Burke's eighteen year old little brother. The first song is released just two days before his brother, David is arrested and charged with the murder of fourteen year old Celeste Rivas Hernandez. And with a case like this, it seems like anyone who is around David by choice, whether it be familial ties or friendships, they're going to be scrutinized by the internet. with a lot of people wondering if maybe some of these people knew what David was doing If his close friends and family members knew or maybe they even helped, every single person who is around David is being questioned on forums as to whether or not that they are a potential accomplice in the murder and dismemberment of Celeste Rivves Hernandez, a fourteen year old girl And this is a deep dive into every single one of those people. We would like to thank today's sponsors who have made it possible for Rotten Mingo to support NeCMeC, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. This episode's partnerships have also made it possible to support Rotten Mingo's team of dedicated researchers. We'd also like to thank you guys for your continued support. As always, f show notes are available at Rottenmingopodcast dot com dot please be aware that there are mentions of grooming, CSA, CCM, and dismemberment in relation to a minor, a fourteen year old child We have two previous episodes from like seven months ago on this case back when Celeste Ris Hernandez' body was first found in the trunk of David's car. However, for those that haven't seen those, I would encourage you to watch those first. If there's any a moment in these videos where you're like, oh, why didn't you talk about the song that was allegedly made in his name? Why don't you talk about the song that David allegedly made in Celeste's name? Why don't you talk about this that's been circulating online? Most likely we covered that seven months ago and I didn't want this to be a complete repeat. I've tried to provide enough context and foundation to the case so that you're not lost as we go through most of the recent updates. I've also just done another update episode right before this one airs There's another episode that I highly recommend watching first before you begin this one. We talk about all of the things that happened up until David's arrest, the grand jury investigations, Neil Langston being arrested, and then finally, David being arrested. And we still have a lot of ground to cover. We went over some of the prosecutor's preliminary brief of what they believe with the DA, what the police believe happened in this case. when they think Celeste Rivves was killed, when they think she was dismembered, when they think David purchased certain items, We also went over all of the autopsy details that were made public. In this episode, we're going through all of the named potential accomplices. These are just Reddit theories. These are people piecing together little clues to wonder out loud on the internet If maybe other parties were involved, and that's how David got away with it for so long. We're also going to dive into the legal aspect of things. What we're expecting for the preliminary hearing that's coming up in June, what David's parents have said publicly about this case, what Celestes family has publicly said about this case. and also a deep dive into who the fuck David's attorneys are because they're kind of crazy and the judge on this case, as well as the DA So with that being said, Let's get started One of the key figures in this case online has become a man named Steve Fisher He's the private investigator, the private investigator that's been digging into this case and he has access that a lot of people do not have. And a lot of people have mixed feelings about whether or not they like this guy, whether or not he's just like a grrimy person on the internet that's trying to get his three seconds of fame off of this case and maybe pointing the finger a bit too much. orr he's someone that's kept this case alive by drawing more and more attention to it up until David's arrest. everyverybody has a mixed opinion But he does have access to this case that we don't have David allegedly commits this murder inside the garage of a house in the Hollywood Hills David does not own this house. He rent said under his manager's name. After the LAPD conduct a search of this house back in September of last year, the real homeowner, the property owner, like we talked about in the previous episode, they hire a PI named Steve Fisher. They're like, we need to investigate everything. We want answers. We want to know exactly what happened in our house. The questions that they really want the PI to answer are quote, Did any acts related to celeste disappearance or death occ at or materially involve the rental house We know now probablyrobably did The DA was not telling them that back in October of twenty twenty five. So they're like, we want to know if she was murdered in this house. Like we want to know what happened in this house Another question that they had was what digital and physical traces link the property to the Tesla that's later impounded? Are there overlooked items or recordings from in or around the home or neighborhood that should be preserved and provided to law enforcement? He says, how I work with the landlord and LAPD, I was hired by the landlord to protect a legitimate property interest and to ensure potentially relevant house tied evidence is preserved and transmitted. The goal is to reduce uncertainty about whether the residents played any role to relay my findings to the LAPD. He says, LAPD served a search warrant to the house. His management contacted the owner and basically said that they're breaking the lease They're going to have the movers come the next day, which they did. And they came in and they grabbed certain things, but they left a lot behind. And they basically then said, anything that's left behind, just do what you want with it. We're out. David's never seen again. Now we find out he was just in another rental house just a few miles away. Steve Fisher, the PI says, months ago, he found the burn cage. He found the chainsaw in the garage. He says We cann't get past the chainsaw or the burn cage. just like there's no reasonable use to have it there And now we find out that it does appear they played a role. I mean, we're really confused about this. What happened to the tissue and the blood from the chainsaw? becausecause they make it sound like there were trace am mounts found and they didn't really turn the house into a crime scene. They didn't hold it long when they did the search warrant. So it's really confusing to us. It is very confusing, right? Because if it was a crime scene, how come they didn't any like crime scene So they didn't do a crime scene tape, but I would say that LHPD probably knows how to work under discretion a little bit better. They did come out and said that they did extensive luminol test. although Steve Fisher is like, I didn't find any traces of luminol. Typically, they make a mess when they search a house like that. He's like, I didn't really find any mess that you would associate with an active crime scene So Steve Fisher is saying and there's a third kind of netizen theory that's been floating around of, Steve Fisher himself has stated that he's been hired by the homeowner to more or less protect property interest as well It would be in his best interest or at least the homeowner's best interest if this murder did not happen inside the house So some people think that that's why Steve Fisher keeps pushing this narrative that maybe the crime took place in Santa Barbara just wouldn't have even talked if he's trying to preserve the interests of the houseowner, right? Yeah. There's a lot of back and forth about that. But one of the most alarming details, the most important detail that I think the PI has come out with has gone public with, is his belief that there were other miners David was in contact with Steve Fisher says that he is in contact with at least two other miners who David was communicating with around the same time that he was communicating with Celeste He states that he's got pictures. He says he has proof that at one point David had two rental homes. So he had signed the manager, Josh Marshall, had signed this specific, let's call this the house. He signed the contract to the house The contract to David's previous place on Dohini had not expired yet So we had two active leases, more or less. So he's saying that on Valentine's Day, he knows for a fact that Valentine's Day of twenty twenty five, he had celest in one house and another minor in a different house for Valentine's Day. That's what he's claiming Now apparently one of the girls has been in contact with him and even like this whole text message thread had been released and it's hard to verify, but they're having It's a message between the girl and David and they're having a cheeky conversation about her fighting off his alter ego, Itami. She says, I would definitely win an Itami fight off. David responds, No you would not. Who released this This is just circulating online. Steve Fisher seems to be heavily involved with getting information out there So he's saying that two other miners were communicating with David at the time, then other people have been trying to track down these minors. They've been DMing them, they've been releasing the DMs. I would just be wary of reaching out to people who you suspect to be involved in this case just especially if they're minors because I think it puts them in a situation where they're at a disadvantage of maybe they're not exactly sure what to say, but they feel pressured to say something. and then those being released publicly is a lot. But Unless they speak out publicly themselves, but one of the miners in this message, she writes back proof David writes, You're not winning against me, you're definitely not winning against a Tommy She responds, I would karate chop that bee. How would I not win against you? Let's be real. David allegedly sends a Jiff of a streamer who's making a funny face to the camera with his arms behind his back And you can't really see his arms, it almost looks like he doesn't have arms. And he responds, You after me and Tommy cut off both your arms. She responds just dot dot dot. Ste Fisher has posted online on Twitter. I also have proof that he had an ongoing illegal relationship with another miner at the exact same time that this was going on with Celeste. This proof includes a statement from the miner and dozens of photos that include the miner and David Yes, law enforcement is aware of this relationship. I'm also aware of a third minor. This is a pattern. Why charges are not filed before For this pattern of abuse against minors is beyond logic to me. It's as if homicide or nothing. How about justice for all the victims and stopping this from happening to someone else? We have to keep the pressure on and it's time for more pressure So this is before David is arrested for murder, he's saying, att least get him for abusing minors. The PI Steve Fisher also states, After LAPD served a warrant and departed, I documented several items at the property that I believed are important to the case and understanding who David's inner circle of friends are. Why this matters for the house? These materials affect the question of whether planning, post incident staging or other relevant conduct intersected with the rented premises The PI writes in a tweet, Based on the timeline, I do not believe David was alone for more than brief periods between april twenty third and april twenty fifth These are the days of the murder that the prosecutors believe happenens So he's saying, thoseose days included the Coachella Windown, the release of his withered album, pre sales launching, and a release party in his honor then flying to New York City for a bam lap event. He was at a peak moment in his career. Management, publicists, and others in his orbit were all present. The starfucker friends were all around. It's difficult to believe that no one knew anything about lust Immunity may protect someone legally, but it does not shield them from public perception, especially if information was not brought forward immediately. So Steve is almost insinuating like that timeframe that the prosecutors dropped I know there's no way that he was alone for long periods of time So if he's not alone for long periods of time and Celeste is dead in the house, someone must have known. He says in an interview, I think he had help I think there's going to be other people that go down. I think there's going to be financial transactions that come out in this that are you know, if this goes to trial, they're going to show that there were people that were getting money and it's going to look really, really bad. A lot of people are under the impression that David must have had help in some way. I mean, there are a handful of names that have been circulating which netizens believe could be at the very least informative individuals who might have information that the public is not privy to. Just based off their publicly known close working relationship and or friendship with David, it doesn't mean that they actually know anything And again, these are just internet theories. The police in DA's office have rightfully remained really tight liipped about the possibility of witnesses getting immunity deals, if they're going to make any more arrests, if there's accomplices that they're looking into PD chief is asked. Are you only looking at him or you're looking at the possibility of other people The investigation is ongoing, so I wouldn't say ever that it couldn't lead to other places. But yeah, I wouldn't comment on that much at this point The PI states, I don't think he had a lot of downte by himself coming off of Coachella and all these PR events happening. And by the twenty fifth from the twenty third, he kills her. By the twenty fifth, he's in New York H's a party, album release, all this stuff is happening. Who was around him? I think that's really going to be key So let's go through all the circulating names of people that netizens think might know the most The first one is obviously Neil Lingston. He's the one that LAPD arrested in Montana for failing to appear to the grand jury subpoena. They hauled him back to LA, sat him in front of the grand jury, allegedly because it's sealed. I can't get like it seems most likely that's what he was involved in. He was in the courthouse. He gets arrested for not showing up. There's a grand jury investigation with the target being David Anthony Burke happening all simultaneously. But to say one hundred percent, he's not involved in a different grand jury subpoena, right? legally speaking. They sit him in front of a grand jury, allegedly, where he testifies. for what appears to be forty minutes. So people are not allowed into the room with the grand jurors. There's no reporters that are allowed in, no court reporters, Nobody's allowed in. However, you can still go into the courthouse. You can still wait outside the courthouse. You can wait outside in the hallway of the courthouse H You can see where Dputy DA Beth Silverman, who's working this casees You can do a lot of things, but you can't be in the ro So this is from someone who was O s Yeah, lots of people were on site, lotots of people were leaking information to primarily TMZ, so I would take it with a grain of salt, but it does seem highly likely that he was there for the grand jury. and I would say that he was only there for about forty minutes. That seems to be solid information that is not really up for debate. Now people say that forty minutes is very suspicious because first of all, why would LAPD go through the hassle of going to Montana, arresting him, bringing him back to LA unless they think that he's going to be of high probative value. Like he's going to provide some sort of information, some sort of witness statement that can put David Anthony Burke at the scene of the crime. L he must know something. even if he doesn't think he knows, he might know without understanding what it means. Like, oh yeah, that day. He might not know what that day means, but like, oh, Mayfith, he told me he couldn't do something. and then he had this cut on his arm. Like he could know something without knowing he knows finally gets to LA. He's in there forty minutes and he says what? We don't know. forty minutes. Is he talking in five time speed? Or is he not saying anything at all? Most people think it's the latter. He only testified in front of the grand jury forty minutes. Meanwhile, David's manager, Robert Morgan Roth. He was on the stand reportedly for three days in front of the grand jurors Netizens think that the entire time Neil Langston pled the fifth which even that has been a huge debate. TMZ got involved. It's a very weird messy rabbit hole that I don't know how productive it is at this point in time, but David's attorney Blaire Burke reported to be vacation buddies with the TMC founder Harvey Levin And ever since Blair Burke took on David's case, people have a feeling that the TMZ news has shifted where Celeste is consistently referred to as the young lady versus The child, the girl, the young girl, the baby, like fourteen year old. They also think that even Neil Linkston, you know, Tam Z is like, he pleed the fifth. Then they're like, well, he didn't plead the fifth. We heard that he said, I don't know to all the questions, which is technically not pitleading the fifth playing Get ready for the family reunion from Hell. From the producers of the horror classic Evil Dead comes a brand new nightmare and the scariest installment yet After her husband's mysterious passing, a widow seeks comfort with her in laws in their secluded cabin in the woods. But as they one by one turn into something much more sinister, she discovers that every family has its demons Evil Dead Burn, now playing only in theaters the rated R under seventeen Not admitted withithout parent. Atention all fabulous, thriving and gorgeous quQeens. It's time to grab your favorite look gloss because Mavis Beaumont is back. The final season of sururvival of the Thickest arrives july second. Watch our favorite plus siz fashion Eista, conquer her career, find true love, and step into her dream life Plus, the guest list is stacked with comedy and fashion icons like Wanda Sykes, Ice T, and Jenna Lyions. Don't miss the ultimate happy ending. The finale season of sururvival of the Thiggest, july second, only on Netflix. Back to school starts now Get long lasting battery life on the Dell XPS laptop powered by sereries three Intel core, so you can work from anywhere. Now starting at six hundred and ninety nine dollars, with exclusive student pricing starting at five hundred ninety nine doll. Complete your setup with savings on select monitors and must have electronics and accessories, limited time deals and free shipping on PC's and more await you dell d. com slash deals. That'sdell dot com slash deals. Neo's attorney says that he was cooperating with the prosecutors, which he can say all of that, and that doesn't mean anything. Just because you say your client is cooperating with the prosecutors doesn't mean he didn't plead the fifth And doesn't mean that he didn't answer I don't know to everything because I mean, in the off chance that he really doesn't know He's still cooperating, he's still answering the questions, But it's become this whole thing Netizens do not have a positive view of Neil Linkston, not even in the slightest. This is just generally speaking across the board. I truly have no strong opinion on whether or not he's involved or knew anything. I genuinely think that you could put Neil Langston in a white padded room with a light bulb that has the same voltage, the same looms of like the sun It's like lighting up the entire room, and I would still say that Neo is not very bright. That's just who he is at his core. One of the key pieces of quote unquote evidence netizens have been holding ono for believing that Neo knows more than he's letting on, aside from the very close proximity to David during this timeline of the murder and dismemberment alleged In this ring video, there's this ring video that the PI releases. So april twenty ninth, the PI releases ring camera footage from one of the neighbor's houses. and he's like, I've been holding onto this for a really long time. I didn't want to release it until, you know, the police did their work So it reads, Now that the prosecution has released a briefing for the preliminary hearing in the David case, we are releasing surveillance footage of the Tesla being moved on july twenty ninth The driver is a lighter skinned with long hair wearing a red jersey which is july twenty ninth Yes Oh o, they're just casually moving the car in the neighborhood So to which all the responses are reposting a picture of David and Neo that was taken on july twenty eighth. It was at least posted on Instagram on july twenty eighth, couldould have been taken the night of july twenty seventh, Could have been taken two years ago, right? Who knows? But it's posted the day before this alleged car movement, ring camera footage Neo is wearing his so called favorite red jersey. He does have long hair and he's like a pale I think he's half Chinese or full Chese I think he's Chinese. he spoke about being Chinese. So it appears like it's him. That's what netizens are saying, I think the video is approximately one pixel in quality. I really can't tell you. some people are saying it even looks like the driver' holding their nose as they drive. I don't know, But netizens are taking this and saying it looks like Neo, and Neo loves wearing his red jersey. He was pictured in it the day before this footage Maybe this is Neo However, the state in the brief regarding the preliminary hearing states that David was the last person to drive the Tesla on july twenty ninth, which could also be true. So either this is a video of David driving the Tesla and because it's one pixel in quality, we really can't tell between Neil Langston or David Burke Or this could be Neo drove it in the morning, and then David was the last one to drive it on the day of july twenty ninth. There's no conversation about Tesla's cameras. There was It seems like all of that would have been gone by the time that Yeah, they found the car in Celeste body. and even if they subpoenaed, I wonder if it'll be like a situation for what happened with Nancy Guthrie's case where technically the ring footage is not safved to her or the Google Mess footage was not safe to her phone, but they subpoenaed Google and Google was able to somehow get this footage that was logged If that I mean, that could take months. Nancy Guthrie's case took a while for that footage to come out, but not nearly as long would be like Critical, right It could be Neo Driving it, it could be David driving it. but all we know is that the prosecutor said he was the last one to move the car. whichich some people think is interesting because the prosecutors could have also written knowing that there's so much online speculation about this case. David Burke was the only one to move the Tesla and it was last moveved july twenty ninth But instead the wording is very he was the last one to move the car july twenty ninth before he went on tour which nothing's necessarily wrong with that wording, but some people online are saying, well, why wouldn't the prosecutors just tell everyone like, hey, he was the only one that ever moved the car and it was last moved on july twenty ninth. Oh instead of saying he was the last one is It almost sounds likeing there could be someone else before. And maybe they did that wording because they also don't know And they want to make sure to leave it open just in case Or they know something that we don't know, which they know lots of things we don't know, but So there are netizens who think that Neo is not the one in the car. There are ones that they think he is the one in the car. but honestly, I can't tell it's genuinely one pixel in quality. I can't tell who it is. I couldn't even tell you one thing about the person driving this car in this footage. But the private investigator released that basasically saying this is Neo. He's Yeahah, he's always been on Neo's neck. He's always had his foot on Neo's neck. He doesn't outright say it. But it's almost insinuated by a lot of people in the comments at least The july fourth Suakura live stream has become a big pivotal point and why people think that Nia is involved. If you haven't watched the last episode, go watch that, but we do a full breakdown on it. David, this is july fourth. so this is months after Celeste has already been allegedly killed. He's in the bathroom of his house. Twitch streamer, Sakkura is live streaming Neo is sitting next to her It's just Sakura and Neo in frame. David walks over and starts apologizing to Sakkura about why his houseells. He's like, Oh, the bathroom smells because I took a shit in there two hours ago. Sakura doesn't think anything of it, and genuinely the people that think that she knows something I think that they're just trying to do a witch hunt I don't think that everybody that knew David knew something. otherwise he would have gone to jail much quicker. And she looks genuinely confused. She's just like, o, don't even worry about it. Like I also just took a shit. And David is like, type shit, type shit. they do a handshake. Neil looks uncomfortable A lot of people think that in this footage, Neil looks uncomfortable because he's like, David, why are you bringing this up on live stream? Like you need to shut up. donon't talk about this on live stream. I didn't necessarily interpret it that way. I mean, I guess I could if I really want to kind of analyze the footage that way. I think he's trying to play it up for the cameras of like, oh God, these people are crazy. they're talking about pooping Becauseuse it was like a very like a a performative, almost like a reactive to Yeah, like it's very obvious. Yes, it's like. Where are you guys A you guys hearing this? Wow. Look at them handshaking for shitting together. So it wasn't like a subtle shift. It's like obvious he's making faces. Yes. It was not like a subtle tensing up of like Okay, let me quickly change the topic. It was very like ew gross, trying to play it up for the cameras. in a teasing manner, right? But I still think Neo is a weird person. Neo has since publicly spoken out. He says in a series of stories, Instagram stories, me and my lawyer were actually planning on making a statement soon, but obviously, now is the best of time since TMZ decided to leave out the actual full statement, so here you go. Then you click the next slide because it's Instagram story. The first statement is from his attorney say about him TMZ, I mean, I think that people are connecting Blair Burke, David's attorney, and TMZ's Harvey Levin. I don't necessarily think that TMZ is Neil Langston's mouthpiece, if anything, they seem to be going down harsh on Neil Langston. They were just releasing bits and parts of his statement. and I don't think that they in this particular situation misled the audience because Neil Linkston has had some weird social media posts since David's arrest that we're going to go through So he posts the full statement. and the first one is a statement from his attorney, Shocky Law. and it reads, My client, mister Langston will not make any public statement at this time as the investigation is ongoing. What I can share is that since returning to Los Angeles, mister Langston has fully cooperated with law enforcement and will continue to assist the prosecution as needed. As the investigation continues, it will become clear that mister Langston played no part in this heinous crime and that he was and continues to be wrongfully persecuted in the court of public opinion, resulting in unwarranted and belligerent harassment directed towards my client and his family. We sincerely hope that justice is ultimately serve for the victim and her family Chucky L law He's like, my client will not make a statement. You click the next button, Neo fucking Langston makes a statement. Okay, now I do think that this was probably heavily vetted by his attorney, but just like the irony of like, we will not be making any statements. Here's a statement from my client on his Instagram story. Neo says, I understand due to my silence and the silence in general, it leaves a void of information that everyone wants to fill At the end of the day, this case isn't about me. It isn't about you. It's about getting justice for the victim and her family and the fact that like they won't say her name Everyone knows her name. Just say her name Celestri Rivis Hnandz. Why do you keep saying the victim in her family? It's about getting justice for the victim and her family and I care a lot more about that than trying to fill that void because of public opinion. Obviously I wasn't doing my part at first, but now I am So he's saying, all I've ever done is try to get justice for her family. I mean, I wasn't in the beginning, but now I am. So he's like Okay What is going on? I've stayed loyal to my mindset and I will continue to. I'm not publicly going to give any opinion or emotion about this case because I find it disrespectful and not my place to weigh in on it, especially as it's still ongoing. I'm not going to spam posts to justify and perform my feelings and thoughts for the internet trying to satisfy people who have already made up their minds about me. In time the record will speak for itself and I'm moving on with my life to which one netizen responds on Reddit. obbviously wasn't doing my part at first, but now I am This guy is not serious, LMFAO. too which people have this whole conversation. I literally died at that part too. Like what the fuck? What made him do his part now? Getting arrested one comments, yeah, getting arrested does wonders on helping people cooperate. If they had brought these people in for questioning on day one, this would have been solved last year. The private investigator takes to Twitter saying, So here's the thing, No. If you have to tell quot my side of things, that means you were involved in the things. You just want everyone to believe that you did less of the things. People who weren't involved don't have my side of things. And how tone deaf are you exactly Your Weep for me post has eleven references to you and not a single mention of Celeste Rivis Hernandez who is dead. She's dead because of the things you're trying to explain away. Nobody cares about your feelings, Neo. This is about Celeste injustice in her name One person astutely points out, what bothers me most about these kinds of posts are the lack of situational awareness in combination with the obvious narcissism. Any say an ir rational person would fully understand why the public suspected a connection? Like it's not like people just picked a random guy to throw suspicion at. He doesn't seem to understand why people are reacting the way they are, and although he says this isn't about me, he goes on to talk about the unjust way that he has been treated There are consequences to hanging out with the wrong people, and when those people are as evil as David, you can't just escape the karma of that But the more confusing part is that Neo has made statements previously on this. Like if you just read this statement, you'd be like, oh, he's never made a statement before. He went on Instagram and posted on close stories, okay? He writes, this is like a day or two before. on close stories He goes, thankfully, I'm legally fine in every way. And boy do I got all my receipts for things. H What What does that mean That's what people are pointing out. Legally fine is an interesting distinction between innocent I have nothing to do with it. I'm innocent. I have no involvement versus legally fine are very different things Really Then the next slide of that reads, I think the worst part is that I've told so many people that I thought I trust and I thought knew me as a person, my side of things for all that to be thrown out the effing window as soon as I get arrested and they slap that dickhead's name next to mine. And for the record, the thing I was arrested for, I wasn't even charged. They never filed it, and my warrant was retracted because there's more to the story. I mean, his warrant was retracted because he got extradited to LA and he did go in front of the grand jury apparently. This like all of this is just very bizarre I keep saying like my side of things. I think that's the thing the PI is also pointing out in the sense of what do you mean your side of things? Either you have zero involvement and you had no idea what was going on Or what's your side of things These very specific statements had led a lot of netizens to speculate that Neo maybe moved the car or was somewhat involved, but maybe he didn't know what he was doing He's just been told, hey, move the car for me periodically. Here's the key and he's moving the car. And that's why he's saying, you know, I told people that I trust my side of the story And then once I get arrested, everyone's slapping that dick headad's name next to mine. It almost sounds like this is hyp speculating, netizens speculating that you told your friends, I didn't know there was a dead body in the car. He just told me to move the car. And now they don't believe me and these are people that I thought I trusted. versus, I told people, I know nothing. I did nothing could also be why he says that he has the receipts, or it could mean that he's not involved at all. but again, the legally fine distinction is a bit odd. Some think that he could be saying that he's legally fine because he got some sort of immunity deal. However, if that is the case, I think that the DA's office would be Prob in sense that he's posting stuff like this People have also taken to posting him walking out of court and they're commenting that he looks like someone who just is walking out with the deal. One netizen theorizes, y'all remember the neighbor who found the Tesla key in the drain. So that was like a thing seven months ago. Remember one of the neighbors came out and was like, I found a Tesla key in the little drainage Yeah It was like a thing. But then people couldn't tie it to David's Tesla because everybody loses their fucking Tesla key. and everybody's got a Tesla in L.A. you know? So there was like a Tesla key that was found in the drain near that area People are saying, I think maybe Neo is supposed to move the body in the car And he lost the key. And so that's why he couldn't move it because David was on tour. He would need the key But other people are saying, that doesn't make sense because Teslaas have an app where you can just unlock the car from anywhere in the world. Like you don't even have to be within the vicinity. So that wouldn't make sense. Even if you lost the key, I'm sure David or Neo would have just unlocked the car from the app. So that's what other people are speculating. Others just have a very bad feeling about Neo with one comment writing, I think it finally hit Neo that David is fucked, and Neo only cares about himself at this point His days of clout with David are over, his choice to keep covering for him while receiving no benefits or to cooperate and hope to save his reputation, I think he's gonna to do the latter. I really think Neo thought this shit would blow over. David would pick his career back up and he could just continue being celeb adjacent. After he's arrested, he realized this shit is over. The PI speculates Neo is arrested in Montana, brought back to L.A. He goes in front of the grand jurors, he says, I don't know, I don't know, or pleads the fifth to everything. And the PIA is speculating Now They're using that as leverage to say, listen, we're pleading the fifth. You want to work a deal? offffer us immunity of some sort, whatever deal that we're looking for, and then we'll talk he writes on Twitter. I have a feeling what happened was that they used that to let them know that was their intention. and they probably met a day or two later with whoever they needed to meet with on the DA side and worked out some sort of agreement and probably then ended up giving the testimony that he asked The importance of Neo in this entire investigation is still up in the air, but people seem to be agreeing that he seems somewhat important for the LAPD to go all the way over there. One legal expert states, I don't know what his role is, but what leads me to believe that this is an important witness, you don't go through the trouble of getting an arrest warrant, going out of state, having that individual arrested unless you're a key witness That's just not how the LA. County's DAs office typically works. So he just went home right after the grand jury, basically. went home in W back home? I think he lives in L.A. I think his mom lives in Montana. Oh. So I think he's still in LA. And And his charge was dropped Okay. Now the same legal expert speculates, ideally in a case like this where you have an individual who's the target of your investigation, so that would be David, and he's surrounded by an entrage and members of the entrage probably don't want to cooperate or rat or snitch, whatever you want to call it, the DA is trying to use that grand jury to lock in their testimony so that they can go to trial and they can't go sideways Basically so potentially NO or other people can't change their testimony There's also a circulating TikTok of a guy whose father is an autoomechanic. And he says, hereere's the weird thing. He's saying that David ordered two chainsaws. He's like, My dad is an autoomechanic. Like these chainsaws, they don't break Like you don't need two of them. You need one. So why did he order two? and he's speculating that he ordered two because he had an accomplice And a lot of the comments are pointing at Neil I don't necessarily know if Neo would have been involved in dismembering Celeste. I think Neo reminds me or at least strikes me as the type of person who's really only out for himself I'm not entirely sure how much he would be willing to risk his entire life and freedom for David, who seems to be just a friend that he was using for money and clloud unless David promised him the world, which I mean, I still just don't seeee how that would make sense. Another thing is with the two chainsaws, maybe an autoomechanic knows that they're not going to break, but I don't know if a regular civilian like David would know that I also think that there was some speculations online that David ordered two chainsaws because he didn't know how to charge that you would need to charge the battery. instead of Like he ordered two like there are just some there are lots of speculations on why two chainsaws instead of one. I don't know. So he ordered two chainsaws from Amazon. Yes. And the private investigator only found one I think he found the boxes. I don't even know if he found like we don't know if those are the ones that he ordered on Amazon. Like it's very hard to, you know Let see So we don't know if chainsaws were used or not, o. The preliminary brief, if I recall correctly, it said the chainsaws and other tools. like they left it open as well One comment summarizes, I mean, it really doesn't make any sense that any of his friends actually helped him dismember the body. Being a friend you moo off of versus being a friend, you will go down to jail for life are very different. I mean, unless it was his parents, I don't even know if David's parents would go so far considering they have other kids Another person comments, I can't see Neo doing life for a short term friend. I wouldn't even do that for a long term friend. If he has nothing to worry about, it explains why he's being so nonchalant about this ost on social media. I was convinced that he had something to do with it, but that was mainly down to the private investigator heavily insinuating he was the last person to move the Tesla. It's going to be very interesting to see the receipts. One person writes, Maybe his stories are being read into incorrectly. Maybe quote, more to the story refers to there being more to the story of what happened for him being dragged into LA to testify Maybe other people were pointing the finger at him and it wasn't real. Maybe the receipts are simply related to his name being cleared in this case. I don't know. Regardless, a lot of netizens think that Neil might have have to at least probably known that Celeste was a child and could have potentially known the nature of what was going on between David and Celeste. How could he have not known she was a minor And these are still crimes, even if he didn't know about killing and dismembering, that's still a crime what he did to celest And if he did know, how could you not do something about it? Then you have Josh Marshall, who is David's manager. A lot of people have a lot to say about Josh Marshall. It comes from the fact that mainly he's David's manager. I will say a few threads that they think are connected is first the email There is a screenshot going around of an alleged anonymous email sent to David's management team back in February of twenty twenty four So this is a year before Celeste is allegedly killed. That reads, There's been talk about the artist David Possibly having something to do with the disappearance of a thirteen year old Celeste Reivus. If that statement holds any merit, please do the right thing and take her home. Her parents are very worried They attach a photo of Celestes missing personss poster Steve Fisher, the PI writes on Twitter. Early in the case, I released information about an email that was sent to David's manager, Josh Marshall, and another person, notifying them that Celest Rivus Hernandez was a missing person. publicly denied this in TikTok comments claiming this was untrue. However, an alleged copy of that email was leaked tonight on Reddit. The screenshot circulating online is said to be one that Josh took himself, sent to David, who then forwardred it to one of Celeste's friends, and there will be more that proves that this is a known relationship between an adult and a child So the PI is saying like, I know Josh Marshall saw this. Or he's speculating heavily that Josh Marshall saw this. Steve Fisher further alleges that David also knew about this email because apparently, like I said, you know he's saying that David forwarded this email to other people and these other people are how the PI got it Is Josh Marshall a big time manager or is it just? He's the founder of Mogul Vision, which is like the sub label that was managing David U. Lil Mosy, he discovered, I guess, you could say he managed Lil Mosey. He worked with a few other slightly bigger names after that email is sent, Apparently lest goes back home, remember? and also when the shheriff's department goes to David's house. In an alleged TikTok comment, Josh Marshall reportedly writes, And this is a random TikTok account that was created in Puerto Rico, which a lot of people do believe that Josh Marshall lives in Puerto Rico. I don't know, take it with a grain of salt. There's no way to verify that this is Josh Marshall's account. but a lot of mainstream media have even reported that this is Josh Marshall, so I don't know. He responds As if he is Josh Marshall. So again, up for debate, but it reads. This video is false. So there was this whole video on TikTok of someone accusing Josh Marshall of Be involved in helping kill Celeste. The comment reads, This video is false and the person is misinformed. This is the only time I'll speak on this matter for now. This has been a tough time for my family as I am a father of three children. I received no emails and I'm no one's roomate. I live full time at home with my wife and kids. My daughter is fourteen and this news is affecting so many lives. I never received any emails I had zero knowledge of anything, and I don't live in California. Also, I work remotely ninety five percent of the time and my job doesn't require me to have much interaction with any of my clients slash David, as there are many others that work with him on a day to day capacity, not me. This news is tragic for so many and for her family, I hope the proper authorities get to the bottom of it soon. Let me remind people a lot of this is speculation and alleged In the meantime, I'm with my family helping them emotionally get through the news of this tragedy. Please report on factual information. Josh Marshall He's the one that you say he went to the grand jury and then That was no, that was Morgan Roth, his other manager. So Josh Marshall is part of Mogul Vision So like the record label. We see the one that rented the for him Yes. So he wasn't there. And then he has another manager or It's unclear if Josh Marshall was subpoened by the grand jury But Robert Morgan Roth was there for like three days. And who exactly is he? He's the touring manager. Yeah, so he also works spending a lot of time with David right after Yes. So Robert Morgan Roth works with Mogul Vision, but he also is like co president of Zara Brothers Tour or something of that nature, something like that name. He is basically handling all the touring stuff. So yes, he was probably there on tour with David the whole time Let's see as I don't think Josh Marshall was. If anything, I'm sure David had a different smaller manager that handled his day to day. like Josh Marshall said. This is not me saying that Josh Marshall is a good person or anything. I mean, I don't know him at all, but I will say that Josh Marshall's Instagram is also registered in Puerto Rico, so this could be Josh Marshall, but it's also weird that he would make his first and only statement on Titter comments plac not like a proper PR statement for being the founder of this mini record label. It just doesn't make sense. Also, I don't know if Josh Marshall should be stating that he barely had interactions with David when it's clear that David was at his wedding in July of twenty twenty three and even performed. This is also like a super intimate wedding in Italy. Josh Marshall's wife had posted about it and it's still up on her Instagram Each row of the wedding has like three seats in each row. It's a really intimate wedding maybe David's just there to perform for his manager boss, right? But it's still kind of odd. The email, I will say, is big part of why Josh Marshall's name comes up and the fact that he's the one that signed the lease to the Hollywood Hills place that David was living in when this occurred And also the Fanda Theater concert. There is a concert in LA at the Fonda Theater from june twenty seventh, twenty twenty four It was like a three day concert. and Celeste is pictured in the VIP section at this massive concert with Josh Marshall, David's parents David's siblings and other members of David's entrage in the VIP section. This is where we get the video of what looks like and this has been Caleb Burke, David's brother has spoken up about this since then, but what looks like Celeste and Caleb walking back Like they just went backstage, right? Yes. Now, he does clarify what they were doing in that context, but he confirms that's Celeste And the photo you're referring to Yes. We can see them very clearly I mean, it's like ten pixels. Yeahah, pretty much. I mean, if you factor in that Caleb confirmed thats Celeste at the Fonda Theater, she's wearing the same clothes. You can't really zoom in and see her face super clearly, but it matches it matches Now Celeste is there and they have this huge photo booth set up at the Fnda Theater. And conveniently, she's not in any of the photo booth pictures that were taken and uploaded. There are members of David's friend group, his family, his management team, people from Mogul Vision that are in these photo booth pictures She is not in She's there in the VIP section, but she's not with them in any of the photos. So maybe Celeste told them that she doesn't want to be in any photos or David told them that she can't be in any photos or David specifically told them that she shouldn't be because she's a minor or maybe everybody already knew she was a minor and that's why they didn't want her to be in the photos. Why was she not in the photos? Why was she there? Why didn't anybody realize that she's clearly a minor And the most damning in terms of legally speaking, I mean, I'm pretty sure it's illegal for Josh Marshall to rent the Hollywood Hills home under his name and not mention to the homeowner that David is the one living there, That's like the biggest tie If I'm not mistaken the home owner I didn't even know David, the singer. And they're like, o, so now we find out that a singer is living in our house and they they found a body in his car So it's highly, highly doubtful, I will say that someone like Josh Marshall who founded Mgul Vision is going to be involved in helping David with something like this. I think if anything, netizens are questioning whether or not he knew Celeste was a minor and whether he did anything about it. And it seems like he didn't do anything about it if you knew. Then there's Robert Morgan Roth. He's the president of David's Touring compompany. Like I said He was heavily present during David's tour This is taking place right after David allegedly murders Celeste Robert Morgan Roth testifies in front of the grand jurors for what has been reported as three days. But one thing that's very interesting is apparently he came out into the hallway to talk to his attorney. because defense attorneys are not allowed Not that he's a defendant, but attorneys are not allowed That's crazy. Yeah, because it's an investigative grand jury. So the attorneys, they wait in the hallway and he apparently comes out into the hallway and this was loud enough so that other people in the hallway could hear. And it's been reported that he says, she, Beth Silverman, the deputy DA, presenting the case to the grand jurors, she's very pushy on why I didn't call the police. Now, we don't know if this really happened or maybe passerbys misheard what he said, but he allegedly continues to tell his attorney in the hallway I said I feel like I didn't have the responsibility to do that and just wanted to continue with the tour Even if he did say that, it's unclear what he's referring to. Is you referring to potentially that he knew that Celest was underage and she was missing and that she was with David before she had gone missing or that there's a body in David's car Most netizens think it's the former. He knew that Celest was a minor and had gone missing. I can't verify this, but according to Redditors, he the only statement that he's made publicly is it's not even a statement, but apparently he privated everything. and he did post a recent story where he had a screenshot of his company making nine hundred thousand dollars thus far in twenty twenty six since your start And in the past month made about three hundred fifty thousand dollars from I guess, other tours, other things. He posted his revenue. Yeah is going Yeah Like a flex? Yeah I guess he's so bothered by everyone talking about him or at least it feels like he's so bothered that he must be like, no guys, I'm still killing him This is a paid ad by Better Help. Sometimes life is just go, go, go. and sometimes that can be really enjoyable, moving somewhere new, starting a new job, but sometimes it's not enjoyable, and that's okay too. Not everybody thrives when life gets busy. You might catch yourself feeling drained even during things that you usually enjoy, or you realize that you've been pushing yourself more than you need to and suddenly all these mundane tasks feel like giant mountains and you wish you had more energy, but you physically don't It is so important to take care of yourself when things get busy by resting, recharging, and saying no when you need to. Therapy can also be a great way to get out of autopilot and just get solid rest. Therapy with betteretter Help may help you better understand your needs, feel more confident setting boundaries, and create a rhythm that feels sustainable. BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform. J take a short questionnaire to identify your needs and preferences, and BetterHelp will handle the initial therapist matching work for you. You can also feel confident knowing Betterhelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully qualified. Take a pause with therapy. BetterHelp can help life feel manageable again. Sign up and get ten percent off at betteretterhelp dot com slash rotten Betterlp. com slash rotten. Many of us have tried learning another language before, but when it's time to actually use those skills, we realize knowing a few words is not the same as real conversation. Rosetta Stone's Sapphire is a major new release in language learning. comombining Rosetta Stone's trusted immersion method with the latest innovations in education technology to help you go from knowing phrases to speaking confidently about the topics you care about. Mandarin has been a lifelong goal of mine and a part of that is just learning how to play Magjang. You have to call out each tile when you put it down and I'm trying to play with my mother in law. It's really difficult. So Rosetta Stone is where I fall back on. Especially with their new sapphire studio, I can specify exactly what I want to learn, whether it's Magjang characters or traveling and need to knows. Rosetta Stone' Sapphire will create a resource that suits your needs If you want to take your language skills to the next level, don't wait to try Rosetta Stone Spphire. Rotten Mingle listeners can get twenty percent off their Rosetta Stone Sapphire subscription when they sign up today. You'll get unlimited access to all twenty five Rosetta Stone languages plus all the new saapphire learning tools. Visit roosetta Stone dot com slash Rotten to redeem your twenty percent off. That's Rosettaestone d. com slash rotten and start learning a language for real Summer is the perfect time to rethink what clothes you're reaching for every day. You want lighter fabrics, better materials, pieces that you feel good the moment that you put them on. That's where Quins comes in They focus on high quality essentials, think, breathable linen, soft organic cotton, washable silk, but without the luxury markup. And it's not just clothing. Quince has really become a destination for elevated essentials across home, kitchen, bedding, and beyond. Quince's European linen line has just the perfect summer closet essentials. I've recently been loving their one hundred percent European linen pajama sets They come in summerary gingam, the quintessential stripes and neutrals lined with piping. I mean, I've been loving Quints for a while now. They're Mongolian cashmere that starts at justty dollars is a favorite. Quintince has me dressed and put together during the day and now I have the perfect pajamas for summer nights as well. Elevate your summer wardrobe, go to quints dot com slash rotten for free shipping on your order and three hundred sixty five day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's QuincE dot com slash rotten for free shipping and three hundred sixty five day returns quQints dot com slash rotten. is in Robert Morgan Roth hasn't made a single public statement, but has made but he has made time to post about his company making eight to nine hundred thousand dollars in twenty twenty six. Meanwhile, his former client, David is facing serious charges and he's reportedly been questioned for days in front of a grand jury. The priorities here are interesting. Then there's Asia Collins, who is a very close friend of David's, or at least appeared to be in the past There were reports during the grand jury hearings that there was an unnamed female witness that was being uncooperative A lot of editors believe that if this is true, they think it could have been Asia Collins. But we don't know for sure. We don't even know if she was subpenaed Wh is exact Is she a streamer too? She's yeah, I would say she's like Neil Langston in the sense of I don't even know if I could identify them as streamers because they're not known as streamers They're not. that well known They're mostly known as Davis friends. Yeah that would stream But it seems like a lot of their streams revolved around David and having a famous brat There's a few viral clips because she is the one in the fourourth of July stream with Sakura, who' an actual streamer. and She's getting ready next to Sakura This is where again, David apologizes for the smell in the house, attributes it to him pooping two hours ago. She's also in a separate liv stream. This is from David's liv stream. So it's David and Asia Collins and they're sitting and they're reacting to these videos. And I guess these very young fans had set in a video for David to see. I think they're singing one of his songs. They look really young eleven, twelve And this there's a clip of David. they're up on the screen and it's paused. So the two young girls are just sitting there And then David's talking to Asia and he's screaming, I'm a gooner, I'm a gooner, I'm a gooner. Sooner is Someone who self pleasures a lot is what Gonar means. So people have taken this We don't know the context. We do know the context. So people have taken this clip and they're saying, lookook, Asia Collins knew. There's two young girls on the screen and David is screaming, I'm a gooner, I'm a gooner, I'm a gooner, right? So Asia obviously knew something. People are like, look at her. She's like the Galaine Maxwell of David That's a crazy thing to say, considering the scale of which Gelaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein had victimized people. People are just equating her to being a wannabe, Gallaine Maxwell, saying she knew she didn't care. She just wanted the fame and money I think some context is in that live stream, they paused the video and I guess they got sidetracked about a different conversation. And Asia was like, No, I need to see her phone. L she wanted to look through David's phone. And that's when David is like, No, you can't because I'm a gooner. L you can't look through my phone because probably there's like x rated videos on there. We now know that there's CCM on there, but he's saying things like I'm a gooner, I'm a goon So some people are saying, well, it's not fair to take it out of context. Other people are saying, it's still incredibly weird as a public figure to have two For clearly underage girls on the screen, you're live streaming and you're screaming things like aagooner Now what is interesting is that Asia Collins is under a lot more scrutiny than quote unquote, Dcooy Celeste Beacause if you remember seven months ago, most of the conversation was actually about who is Dquy Celeste?? Who is the older Celeste? Did older Celeste know about younger Celeste? did they ever meet? Now the PIT Fisher says, So there is another Celeste that was not super close with David. That other Celeste is actually really close friends with Asia Asia is the one that's close with David Pooy Celeste is not like a It seems like she's not. Wow. And I will say even watching the two hour live stream that Sakura posted on fourourth of July that is relevant to this case Asia and David seem a lot closer. The way they interact, the way they talk to each other, whereas the older Celestia seems very quiet and on the side. She doesn't seem that familiar or comfortable around David. Interesting. Her and David were not like dating or anything. No, it doesn't appear to be Yeah. She is really close with Asia and the PI says, whoo's one of the people that was always around. So that was just a coincidence. There was another Celeste. It wasn't a decoy or anything like that. That's what the PI is saying Asia, I do think, is getting a lot more scrutiny because of the way that she's been handling a lot of the questions that netizens have. Asia had put out a statement reading, Since people are being super disrespectful, I will clarify some things. I did not know the girl nor her age May she rest in peace? I have never posted any videos with Celeste Rivves, only my friends Vanessa and Celeste Herrera, who are commonly being mistaken as Celeste Rivves. Everyone wants to act like TikTok detectives, yet they can't tell the difference between people of color. Let's pack it up, y'all. She's stating that she did not know Celeste the victim. I don't know why she says the girl I think that language made netizens dislike her quite a bit, but she also says that she didn't know Celeste real age and that she never knew Celeste. So there's an Instagram DM where Asia is referencing a missing poster of Celeste Rivas Hernandez And she writes in this DM to somebody else Bro, this is my friend's girlfriend question mark, question mark, question mark, question mark. It almost feels like this is the time that she discovers that Celest Rius Hernandez is a minor and missing to which the person writes back, is there a way you can confirm thirteen. Asia allegedly responds, What the fuck you're lying A year before she's killed. So you're saying, you didn't know the girl, you didn't know her age, you know nothing about this, but I mean, if these DMs are real, they prove otherwise Asia Collins puts out a statement that reads, you know when and people are asking her about this, but in that time, Asia Collins just puts out another statement and it reads, this investigation is ongoing. I will speak on things when I can and feel ready. Please respect my privacy and and allow for the police to do their job. thenen she posts another one. For legal and safety reasons, I do not feel comfortable talking about the case. I will speak about it in due time. In the meantime, I suggest you don't believe everything you see online And because she doesn't explain how she went from not knowing the girl to knowing the girl and knowing her age to now I can't talk People start digging and people can pinpoint her being in the same location that Celeste was in at one point from the Fonda Theater in Los Angeles. One comment reads footage from the Fnda Theater in twenty twenty four shows that David performed on three separate nights between june twenty seventh and twenty ninth, and Celeste was present with them at the side stage on all three days, around David's management, team and other crew members This shows a complete failure by everyone who knew she was spending time with David and chose to do nothing. She had been reported missing multiple times and still nobody took action or confirmed her safety. All parties involved should be held accountable for this unacceptable negligence and for knowingly allowing the situation to continue. When you look at what ultimately happens to Celeste, it's impossible to ignore how many people let this happen Under the comment reads, D anyone around David care to ask about the girl that looked eleven? find it hard to believe that none of his friends knew Neo in Asia for sure knew. One person writes It will follow Asia because she can't stop associating herself with it. I've said it before, but Celeste Herrera de quite Celeste was smart. She just completely removed herself from the situation and didn't post anything antagonistic. If you Google Asia, all she will be is beside posts about David. Her snide remarks calling Celeste the girl will always be there She also just keeps engaging with netizens and having a bit of a condescending attitude, which doesn't do her any favors in this case. There's one video of Asia, and I will say it's unclear when this video was filmed and posted, but some people believe it's around the time This is all taking place. And she's just telling the camera. Sometimes I get so fucking sad that people just can't keep my dick out their mouth. Y'all got something better to do. Keep talking about me, though. It's chill. On what appears to be Asia's account on Reddit, she posts on one of the many David subrededdits. Hi, this is Asia. Yes, this is actually my account. justust wanted to come on here and state a few things because a lot of things have gotten out of hand