Monitoring Jail Calls and Friend Drama

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Run Mango is sponsored by State Farm. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like showing up for movie night ready for a heart pounding thriller, but getting a three hour documentary on lawn care. That's kind of like insurance. Insurance may all seem the same on the surface But when it comes to getting the help you need, state Farm is the real deal, you wouldn't settle for a snoozefest when you came for a thrill ride. So don't settle for just any insurance when they're state fararm. Like a good neighbor, state Fm is there. bar Some of the best advice you'll hear in life is sometimes the most simple advice Don't go to prison. but apparently not all advice is worth taking. and sometimes or like all the time, it's completely unavoidable at that point. But if you are to end up in a prison, the Ohio Reformatory for Women in Msville, Ohio is probably one of the better options One reporter who's been inside, she says it's more like a college campus. And instead of housing students, there's dorm rooms with women that are classified by their charges. You've got units. They call them cottages. They don't even call it units. Cottages for the four Lifers. They're in there for life. You've got cottages for the people that are coming in and out. They've got a lot of programs in the reformatory honestly not seen being offered at other prisons or even at like your local community college. You can get your GED. yes, but you can also take lessons on how to properly raise your child. You can help train service dogs. One former resident, Kat, she says, you actually have a lot of freedom in there There's a track, you've got a volleyball court, a basketball court, a softball field, you've got a gym, you've got school, a place where you can go to use computers for job readiness. You've got cosmetology school, you've got college, GEDs. There's a lot of buildings and you kind of have free reign to kind of go and come as you please. If you're not doing that, you walk the track or you saidit in the yard There's like tables also, or you can watch TV in your bunk You're on the phone doing video visits. Crazy.ow. It sounds like a summer camp. Yeah. And the Reformatory, they offer three different yard time slots in a singular day. So you've got the first, second and third yard. And this is a lot. L most people, they'll maybe get yard time once a day, and that's if they're really lucky They have three yard time slots. one's really early in the morning. The second is in the middle of the day. Th then there's one at the very end of the day. Interestingly, it's not even as bad as P class in high school because you can't opt out of that. You can technically opt out of yard time in the Reformatory if it's too hot, if it's too cold, or for whatever reason, you just don't want to be outside You can opt to stay in your room. A lot of people will stay in their rooms because they don't like the weather outside. There's no point in going out because when you come back in, there's no AC in the building. so everybody's sweating. They say it does get really bad in the summers. Like you'll stick to your bed in the summertime But you can buy fans in the commissary But is that hot? Now for some people though It doesn't matter the weather. They're going out for yard time because yard time is game time Residents remember there will always be a few girls out at yard time who've got full face of makeup on. They've got gems in their hair. Each gem is like fifteen dollars you have to buy it. They have curled hair. You can get a curling iron. They look like they're going to the club walking around yard time. It's like walking around Rodo Drive J just walk and walk in Yard time is also, however, one of the few times throughout the day that inmates can be in the sun. So I get it, right? I mean, get fresh air. It's also hugely psychologically beneficial.us Yard time serves as the main flow of information between cottages This is very likely the place where people start whispering about people they've met inside who just came into their cottage, or sometimes they're whispering about the show that they just saw Because there's TV's in the common areas And there was this show that was playing on there. It's like one of those investigation discovery shows about a true crime case. And they said one episode was detailing how seventeen year old Mackenzie Sarilla Drove a car into a building at nearly a hundred miles per hour, killing her boyfriend Dom and their friend Deon You know, that case. who also happens to be their fellow inmate The one that's walking around looking like she's going bar hopping with a full face of makeup at yard time every single day. that one killed two people And now one former inmate says You know she's actually in the bathroom getting trains run on her What This is everything that has happened since Mackenzie Sarilla was imprisoned. Inmates have come out to talk about her dating life, what she's been doing, and if she's showing any remorse, and this is going to be a full update on some of her released jail calls as well as her new appeal So with that being said Let's get started We would like to thank today's sponsors who have made it possible for Rotten and mango to support Change the game for DOomM Foundation and Davon Flanagan's Memorial Scholarship Fund. Both Go Fund mees are run by the families of the victims, and we're going to include those plus all the information regarding Dom and Davyon's Law, which aims to update Ohio'son of Sam laaws in order to prevent violent offenders from profiting off their crimes. It's going to be so pertinent. in this episode, you're gonna see why they want this to be introduced All of these are going to be included in our show notes. This episode's partnerships have also made it possible to support Rot and Mingo's team of dedicated researchers. We'd also like to thank you our listeners for your continued support. As always, full show notes are available at RotMingopodcast. com. Today's episode involves mentions of illicit drug usage, reckless driving, driving, while intoxicated, self exit and possible domestic violence and trafficking as well as heavy discussions of being in prison as well as u Things that could occur In various prisons throughout the country. We did pull the FOIA for this case and we went through tens of thousands of pages of text messages, detective incident reports, autopsy reports. We also received like ninety jail phone calls that I mean, it was like twenty hours collectively. There's just a lot going on. so we're gonna try to break it down. This is actually part four of the five part series So in part one, we went over the crash itself and generally what people believe happened that night. In part two, we break down the Netflix documentary as well as we interviewed Rosie and Bubba and asked them a lot of questions that social media had In part three, we broke down the relationship as well as covering internet rumors, conspiracy theories that people have about McKenzie's relationship with her parents and whether or not people believe that it played a role in all of this. In this part, we're going to cover the jail calls, the alleged prison girlfriends, the trial, the appeal. And in part five, we're going to break down the entire thirty one thousand page document of text messages between Mackenzie and Dobc So with that being said, let's get into it I went down the rabbit hole of figuring out whether or not womomen's Pisence really is similar to Orange's the New Black TV show because that is what everyone kept saying. like is it similar? Some people on Reddit say it is The smell Qote It was an odd combo of BO, hot dog grease and really strong cleaning chemicals. Beyond this smell, the best way to describe it would be like living in a subway station in that everything has that grimy feeling of having been touched by thousands of people One person says, it's kind of like that, plus lots of hooking up in the bathroom stalls and showers. I mean, something really weird was every few days they would pass around electric shavers. There was one for each bunk and there would be a line of girls trying to use these old shavers to dry shave their legs and pubes in the bathroom. Some of them would flip them and use the non cutting side as a Pleasure object on other people. It was so fucking gross. I never even considered shaving Another person on the internet says, the food is the worst part. Yeah One inmate says that they were cleaning the meat grinder in the kitchen because that was their job. And quote, as they opened it, they found about a million maggots inside Basically, it hadn't been cleaned a lot longer than people thought and the whole prison had been eating maggot meat. And there's just lots of reports that there's actually a lot of intimacy going on in women's prisons. I'm not sure exactly the word to be used here, whether it be intimacy or not, but one netizen says that one of the very first things that they learned was how to make a prison rose toy that is stationary. so it doesn't Puls say, but it It's a pleasure object. you get Use toilet paper rolls, like the empty part, the little cardboard roll at the end Saran wrap, napkins and rubber bands and you can make A pleasure object They said it was oddly, you know, more intimate than they expected, with quote gay for the stay being a widely used term. Others note they say that it's not as dangerous per se as men's units, where the prison hierarchy is gay and race based, whereereas the women units are well One netizen writes, ton of drama and sex. The drama in the men's unit is usually at a zero or a tech Nothing ever in the middle The women's unit is a constant six Always. They say quote, The bitches just walked around like they were in a high school dorm the former resident of Ohio Reformatory says, womomen's prison is like a popularity thing. So it really like is being like in high school, you know. And Mackenzie Shereilla was kind of popular in prison because she had to be there for a long time She is popular. Yeah, Kat says, so people who are serving life sentences have an unspoken level of respect. People are just coming in and getting out. We're like renting an Airbnb and they're the homeowners, like landlords. you know what I mean? But even then, Kat says at Ohio Reformatory, at least when she was there, there were still people who stood out, like they just did so much and Mackenzie was that MackKenzie had this one best friend in prison and Kat as the two of them would walk around the yard full glam And Kat is like, I am what I consider a girly girl. I love makeup. I love all that stuff. When I was in prison, I think I did my makeup like twice and that was for my release photo ID. And then we had some sort of like festivals, some sort of sunflower festival came into prison. And I was like, okay, we'll do it for them every single day, No, like that was the last thing on my mind. So they have make regular makeup inw. Yeah Another former resident, Cheyenne says, I would see girls do makeup just not to the extent that Kenzie took it. They'd maybe do a little eyes shadow, maybe a little lip liner or something like that. Kenzie was like full face done going to the club, like makeup, walking around every time she hit the yard, she's not coming out with her hair done. She woke up at six in the morning to get started, getting her hair ready, makeup ready and stuff like that I remember she told me she always wanted me to meet her at first yard and it was like seven or eight in the morning is when the yard starts. She's like, Yeahah, I'm going to be up by six doing all of this. Chheayenne has since come out on TikTok to talk about all of this and she even posted a picture stating, I'm gonna show you guys what she looks like most of the time. So this is what I mean by that. And she inserts a picture of Mackenzie in prison. Like what kind of photos Slfie A selfie Mackenzie Sherriilla in prison. By herself? Yes Now, people are like, oh my God, did she stick a phone up her butt? Like did she pay a CEO, like a correctional officer to get this phone? They have these that they do video calls on and you can actually send pictures to your loved ones. So you can take pictures like yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah And so Cheyne is like, I'm gonna to show you what she looks like. And the picture for my audio listeners is a picture of Mackenzie, one that has been widely circulating now and she's just posing with the camera. And I will say that she has more makeup on than I think I have on right now. So it's definitely, and that's not to be like,, I don't even wear makeup. No, I wear a lot of makeup. Like she's wearing lot of makeup It's definitely not just let me throw on some eyebrows and curl my lashes and call it a day. This is the type of makeup that I would do if I'm going to like a birthday dinner. This is not just I gott to go to the grocery store and run some errands says, she walked around like she knew she was being seen. like she knew she was getting attention. like she was that girl. She would wear makeup like full, full face, full, everything every single day. Cheayenne says, yeah, she also always had her hair done. Eyebrows like everything. Wake up early as hell to do all this. And then she said that sometimes she would read and probably do some laundry. In prison or at least this prison, you can also buy exclusive clothing. And apppparently a Nike hoodie could go for like three, four hundred dollars because it's prison They're not going to make it affordable. And Cheenne says that Mackenzie had everything she wanted, a TV, gems for her hair, an exclusive pink shirt, painted on like shorts, like four to five pairs of shoes, jewelry, a flat iron, a curling iron for her hair A waste trainer, Cheyenne says, you pay fifteen dollars each for one of those gems in her hair. And in the picture that Cheyne, it's literally like when you're five years old and you throw a giant bedazzled gem Okay, you can actually like it's actually cute as an adult too, but it's just not worth fifteen dollars A piece. And she has a lot of those In that picture she has like four What? Yeah And these are things they sell in the prison? I think some of them you have to get from other cottages. Like for example, the waste trainer, Cheyne is like, I don't know how she got the fucking waste trainer, but Cheyenne speculates that it's from the pregnancy cottage. So they have a cottage for all the pregnant women and they might give you waste trainers or you can maybe purchase them. And so she's thinking, because it's from the pregnancy cottage, it's probably going to cost Mackenzie like one hundred and fifty dollars for a very basic waste trainer. Yeah So basically, the parents are funding her spendings, right? Yes She's wearing all of that. And according to Cheyenne, Mackenzie is doing line dancing every night. She's gonna go learn dancing every night. and she's just in one of the best cottages of the facility. Cheyenne says Mackenzie is in the Wheeler cottage. Wheeler has like flat screens. This is what Cheyenne is saying. Aual couches, rooms that you can close your door So cat is like other cottages. it's just like bunks out in the open Yeah. Wheeler, it's like a dorm. You can close the door to your room Yeah, yeah. But how does she end up there? Is it just by luck? by chance? Usually it's for for lifeers Yeah Kat says the widely circulating comparison online about Mackenzie is pretty accurate. Kat says I do say that she wanted to be like Regina George when I was in there. I mean, just the way she did her makeup, the way, I mean, it was like she was going to a club, or she thought she was gonna be famous or photographed. She would wear her clothes altered so that they would be form fitting. and she would make fun of people who had less than she did because she was so well taken care of inside of prison. Like she is taken care of mainly by her mom Cat says Natalie, Mackenzie's mom is making her like a It's like a cupcake camp for her It's like a summer camp for Mackenzie. Yeah, they said that MackKenzie would go behind people who are bigger in size than her and like mock them about their size by doing hand gestures like this behind them in the yard. But one of the more enlightening things to come out of all of this is stories of MackKenzie in prison that she has, quote gone gay for this stay and has been having trains run on her in the bathroom. That's the exact verbiage that people have been using. I'm actually not even entirely sure what that means. I mean, I am to some degree familiar with what it means to have a train run on somebody, but I'm not sure in this context, in the prison context, Cheayanne says There's just so much dating drama inside of Ohio Reformatory. She says, girls always have a new girlfriend in there like every other day. someomebody with somebody's ex every day. It's just how it goes down in there. You don't have anything to do in there. so you just fill your time with Anything, honestly whichich is kind of how Cheyenne starts dating Mackenzie Okay, A at least that's what Cheayne says. Now to fully understand this, let me break it down. According to internet rumors and former inmates who have come out to talk about knowing McKenzie in prison, which know side note, many of them actually have been coming out before the Netflix documentary just share their story. So it doesn't seem like these people are just coming out now because the case has gone viral again and wanting to get TikTok famous been talking about it for a while Mackzie. Yeah. So to break it down, according to Cheyenne, Mackenzie has this best best friend in prison named Jasmine. These are the two that walk the yard gems in their hair, full makeup and Jasmine, okay? Jasmine It did a lot for MackKenzie, apparently. Mackenzie was allegedly making hooch alcohol in prison and a CEO came in, found it, Jasmine took the fall because McKenzie had an appeal coming up, so Jasmine wanted to take the fall for it. Anyway, Mackenzie is besties with Jasmine. Jasmine is dating another inmate by the name of Juice, who has also come out and has started making videos about this So Jasmine and Juice are dating and Juice is really close friends with Cheyenne And near the end of Cheyenne's stay, Juice comes up to her and is like Hey Mcenzlie thought you were cute since you first popped out. She already has like a little nickname for you. She calls you Fro So Cheyenne was like when I was in prison, I had this huge fro because you know, there's not like, you can't really get your hair done, right And Shanne's like, I'm like, all right, but. And she was like, well, Mackenzie said she wanted you to meet her on the next yard So Juice is like Shanne. Mackenzie thinks you're cute, wants to meet you at the yard. She's got a nickname for you She calls you Frall Chanays she never really felt inclined to talk to Mackenzie ever because she just gives off full Regina George vibes, just mean girl radiating off of her. But now she's intrigued She's also, she admits, bored out of her freaking mind, just like losing her mind, go bonkers in there. okay? So this is like the most exciting thing that could happen. She's like, I go outside, hit the yard. I see her and Jasmine immediately walking because they're always out there. You can always spot them. And I walked up to her to be like, Hey, what's up? And she's like, what's up kid you or not, the first thing she says to me is you're top three on my hottest people on the farm list. I guess you call it the farm Apparently they hit it off. Okaykay, Cheyenne is asking MackKenzie if they want to grab dinner. Which like, I mean, clearly it's rough in there. Like Shanne and Kat have come out to say like it does get rough in there. Like they're making it sound like a walk in the park, but it's really depressing. It's really rough. like you lose sense of agency. I get it. But also like it's not as rough as one might imagine. Like I watched prison break and like, do you want to grab dinner? Do doesn't really resonate with prison break? Do you get what I'm saying Do I think prisons need to be tougher? No, I'm actually for prison reform. Anyway, Mcenzie is looking at Cheyenne like she's crazy. She says, No, I don't eat the prison food. I will never eat the prison food Shan's like, I was like, o okay She's like, I cook every single day Every single day I cook. McKenzie cooks? Yeah, Chayanne saysook. Yeah, exactly. Chayanne's like thinking about it and she's going through it and she's like, that's actually a lot of money. Okaykay? So Cheayanne's breaking it down and she says, quote, because like, okay, you nothing's cheap in prison. But you have to buy every single thing to make a meal. So like if you wantan to buy a pizza, like you want to make a pizza, you got to buy the wraps to make the c crust becausecause they don't have dough, you know, you gotta buy it like I don't know if it's like a rap and then they just put some marina. You gotta get the pepperonis, you gotta buy the pizzauce, you gotta buy the cheese, you gotta buy something to shred your cheese. So cooking every single day with your commissary would be a lot because you only get a certain amount of commissary in there for like a certain period of time. So cooking every day, you'd probably run out within like three to four days. So I'm like, oh There's only like a few microwaves in there. so you have to cook all that in a microwave. like it's a lot. You have to get a microwave spot. so you gott to wait in line for a spot at the microwave, which you know is like two hundred girls in one cottage and there's only two microwaves. So you have to get a spot every single day. Go out there, prep for that spot, be ready for your spot, because if you run out of time using that microwave, you're out of the microwave. You can't finish your food. They're not gonna say, Ohh, one more minute, I need a microwave for one more minute. You really have to be prepared for it So it really is a lot Anyway, the two of them start talking, flirting. okay. And when they would hang out, Cheyenne says she noticed a few things about MackKenzie that she's now sharing. One is that Mackenzie kind of seemed amused at the idea that some people call her Serilla the killer. So okay, back to your intro. you're saying that Everyone saw this documentary In the person? They saw an ID investigation discovery episode Oh Yeah. That is So they say it's kind of interesting because when you first meet someone in prison, you ask them for their charges, right Yeah? And then they like and do I think this happens? Absolutely. I think the criminal justice system in America is completely forked. But everyone in prison is innocent, you know, Most of the time. Right? Everyone is innocent. And so what happens, Shan was explaining that you learn about someone's charges and then if you want to befriend them, you go and you call your mom and you're like, you gott to Google this person and see if their charges match up to what's happening, right? So people know that people probably have a vague idea of MackKenzie Sherilla's crimes, and they probably hear her side of the story of like, oh my go, it was Pot, whatever she says. And then they see investigation discovery on the show and they're like, What that's Sherlla the Killer C. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. And Mackenzie doesn't hate the nickname Mackenzie apparently told Cheenne, just like dead pan, notot even offended. Yeah, people call me Sherilla the killer Just like what And it seems like Mackenzie really, really believes she's going home sooner rather than later because Cheanne says, she told me how she was working on an appeal. She's going home. She's going to be home and how me and her we're going to talk when we get home. We're going to continue this outside. So she's getting life without P with Cheanne Mackenzie. Mczie fifteen years. She's eligible for parole in fifteen years. but most likely, it's going to be highly, highly unlikely that she's going to get parole in fifteen years She's not Yeah I don't think she's going to Okay, based on Based on like, typically, if you're in fifteen to life, it's really hard to get parole, especially for killing people. And then it seems from what I know and from what I've heard that Dom and Davon's family members are going to be there at every single parole hearing and they will take that into account. Also on top of that, she has like thirty six misconduct records in prison right now And that also gets factored into parole Yeah. are you gonna talk about? Yeah, but most of it is like not being in her room, like being in the wrong rooms, wrong areas, right? Because Shanne kind of insinuates that's what happens when you're dating people. And then also just having contraband. and most of the contraband is like altered clothing, shoes that she's not supped to have Yeah. thirty six is pretty wild. That's a lot.'s lot for how many years. That's like one a month. Yeah. Pet parent guilt isn't something that's talked about much, but it is a feeling we all know well. When daily life gets in the way, it can feel impossible to measure up to our pets' unconditional love, but you're doing better than you think you are. And Hill's pet nutrition is here to help make this whole pet parenting thing easier with science led nutrition to support their unique needs and lifelong health My dog Tiger is on a no fly list. The one time we took him on a plane, he was so sick with stress and anxiety, it made us realize that unless his life depended on it, there will be zero reason for him to ever fly again. 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Now starting at six hundred and ninety nine dollars, with exclusive student pricing starting at five hundred ninety nine dollars. Complete your setup with savings on select monitors and must have electronics and accessories, limited time deals and free shipping on PC's and more await you dell. com slash deals. That'sdell d. com slash deals. Channe says in a TikTok And then she was showing me her scars and she wanted me to touch them. And I kid y'all not, no bull crap. When I touched them, a chill literally ran through my body. like my hair stood up, back of my neck, arms, everything. It's just like, I don't know, somethingomet felt weird and off. so I kind of like pold my hand back a little bit and she's like, what What's wrong? You don't think I'm pretty with all my scars? Is it nasty to you? Do I look disgusting? I'm like, no, it's just kind of like chilling and shocking seeing all of this. And then MackKenzie looked me dead in the eye, yall dead in my eyes and said, thank God, nothing happened in my face because I still want to be a model when I get out of here Another interesting fact with this is Juice. rememember Juice, Cheyenne's friend dating Jasmine? Juice says in a TikTok, MackKenzie's mom literally still goes out and buys everything and anything Kenzie would want so that when she gets out one day, she'll come home to a bunch of stuff that she wants. Yeah. Apparently, her mom goes out and buys stuff and like puts it in her room And this seems to be a very consistent thing, people have been saying that Mcenzie acts like she's getting out soon Kat says she walks you around like she's gonna get out soon. She had no worries. I'm sorry, like if I had a life sentence,l I'm stressed. Mackenzie? Nope, couldn't tell. walked around with her head held high, would cut her little crop tops, would walk around with hickeys on her neck because that's just what girls do. They get in there and go gay for the stay, whatever. She's living in a fantasy world, still striving to be that girl in prison that got her to be in the position in the first place Influencer, all that, but like baby girl, those days are gone. And so I told you, you know she walked around like she was getting out. She did not walk around remorseful. She walked around like she was still in the free world or still in high school. She was a meanain girl. You could see she looked down on other people, like laughed at other people, would talk about other people, which at the end of the day, no one really in there gave a fuck because we're looking at her, like you're laughing and looking down at people But you're going to be in here for the rest of your life and we're getting out and going home further alleges she did not care. She's currently getting trains run on her in prison right now, and that's just the cold hard facts The girl that I saw didn't look sad, didn't look depressed, was very almost like I said, happy go lucky, just like bopping around just happy didn't even seem like she realized she was sitting in prison But she is sitting in prison. She is, which is exactly why we have so many jail calls At the beginning of each call, it says in an automated tone. This call is not private. It will be recorded and may be monitored. If you believe this should be a private call, please hang up and follow facility instructions to register this number as a private number to accept charges, and thank you for using Securus. You may start the conversation now. Also, you can't just like get private phone calls. typically that's reserved for attorney client privilege So it's not like, oh, I just feel like this should be private No, it's not going to be. There's a lot of normal conversations that you would expect from someone in jail. Mackenzie is telling her mom all the things she's been doing. She's been making oatmeal in her room. She says she's reading all the Harry Potter books and all she does is eat. There's not really much else to do. Her literary review of the first book in the Harry Potter series is quote, good as fuck She says, quote, and it's crazy because I remember being like, damn, these Harry Potter books big as fuck. Who the fuck reads them? Now I'm reading them. crazy that they have books to read. Yeah Yeah Oh and her hair is getting softer. She says it smells good now. She says the showers are so foul and she had this moment she said where she dropped the soap. She says to her mom, quote, I dropped the soap in the shower. and I was like, o no. It's a one person shower. It's only one person, you know, but I still got scared. I was like, oh no, I dropped the soap. and I picked it up real quick and I looked around And they're like gickling They start talking about how people are so weird about being naked here in the US. but in Italy it's fine, which makes MackKenzie announce to her mom that she wants to live in Italy Yeah. Okay.. And what the mom says? Mom is like, yeah It's like When? I mean I want to live in Itois. What do you mean? In another call, MackKenzie says she doesn't want to shower because, quote, because I'm cute and I'm little and I don't want them to see me which somehow segues to Natalie asking about MackKenzie's butt, and MackKenzie informs her, Oh my go they're going away. I don't know what's going away, but she does say, quote, but I have a pimple right on my bone. My butt bone So just like lots of very casual conversations. In another call, she's talking about how long her hair is getting. She says, My hair is so long, I could braid it if I want to. Natalie is just like, Oh, you should braid it. This is Natalie's tone for everything. Oh yeah, you should braid it. Oh yeah, you should eat. Oh, that's good. Yeah, you should braid it. And Mcenzie's like, I'm not talking about my hair on my head. I'm talking about my legs and my cchi and my armpits actually But I'm mainly talking about my legs And it's so like weird. I mean, even if that is what's happening, I just can't imagine telling my mom that my hair down there is getting so long I could braid it odd conversation. In another call, she mentions how she's scared to shower because yeah, this really is orrange is the new black. I'm like the prettiest person here. I feel bad even saying that. If I'm just scared There is a lot of moments, however, in these calls where it just feels like Mackenzie and Natalie and a lot of these conversations, most of them are with Natalie, it feels like they're out of touch with reality and what the They can't grasp what the reality of their situation is There's one moment where Mackenzie and her mom are talking about a friend of MackKenzie's and MackKenzie says, Oh my Godd, why would she go to jail again? What is wrong with her? She's bad as fuck like badass little kid. Mackenzie says, she needs me. She needs me as a friend. I'll keep her out of jail The the mom is agreeing with her. She's like, Yp. What is happening? This is a recorded phone call from jail. How can you keep her out of jail? You're on trial for murder She says she wants to start a business when she gets out and says, I just hope my light isn't taken from me She also talks about how someone in jail is allergic to lash glue just like her. and she found this hack of using wig glue. and Mackenzie is like, when I get out and I go home and I do my own lashes, I'm going to use wig glue. She has a lot of hopes of getting out. She says to a friend, Yeahah, when I go home I think I'm going to get a job whichich like, oh, okay Probably should. Okay. Yeah, when I'm home, I'll either be like a social media manager, or I'm gonna be like a life coach or I'm gonna keep going to school to be a nutritionist and I want to help people eat healthy. Yeah, when I get out of here, I'm going back to eating healthy though. I don't know if Mcenzie knows much about eating healthy. In one phone call, her mom is making a smoothie with baby spinach and Mcenzie says, what's baby spinach. It's bad for you Wa what Because it's baby. What the fuck is baby spinach Natalie is like it's like young tiny spinach Yes, it's genetically modified But it's organic. whichich side note, this is not true. Baby spinach is not genetically modified, but Mcenzie continues arguing. Organic doesn't always mean good though. Natalie's mom starts reading the package and because you know, baby sppinach often comes in like those plastic bags and she's like, it says organic. It says non GMO McKenzie's like, I don't believe that. that That's a lie. In another phone call with her mom, she says, when I go home, this is my plan. So first, obviously staying with you guys as long as possible, Well I'll stay with you guys, I'm gonna start saving money and I'm gonna try and move out of Strongsville. and I wna move somewhere with a lot of land. and I'm gonna like move into a little house, but I'm gonna make it real nice. It's gonna be super cute. I don't want a big house. I want a little house that's nice on the inside So I can have a lot of nice things, but I don't want a big ass house She says, Do you know what I kind of want to do when I go home? I want to do a DNA test Th I don't want the government to my DNA. Girl, the government has your freedom. I think you kind of have to eat the frog on this one. Like you've got bigger fish to fry, your house is on fire and you're talking about saving the curtains Nevertheless, she continues, I don't want the government to have my DNA because they can do whatever they want with it. and I don't want to be like on a list or some shit I mean, they can have my fingerprints. I don't give a fuck, have my fingerprints says nothing. I don't know. You are on a list. You're on a pretty detailed list of incarcerated individuals. Like I'm just so lost at the logic. The government seems very familiar with Mackenzie, even if we're just judging by the FOIA file. The government gave me extensive information about you. I think they know who you are. I think they know what you're doing. I think they know where you are, what you eat, what you read They know to some degree what you're even talking about on the phone And while I do agree the government is not to be trusted with their increasing oversight on their citizens, you're literally incarcerated. I don't know why this logic annoys me so much In one jail call, this is when MackKenzie is on trial for murder. So like the trial is happening and she's having these phone calls. And McKenzie is giggling to her mom about a message that one of her friends sent because so McKenzie's trial was not live streamed. It was a bench trial. It lasted about approximately eight days. and there were parts of it that were recorded, but it was not fully live streamed from start to finish. And she's reading the message And she says, I'm that as fuck. Kendra said, alsoso, bro, your ass has gotten so big LMAO. I watched it on livestream. and when you walked in, I was like, damn, Jay said the same thing about you and you look really good Natalie is like, everyverybody's saying you got a bump in little booty now, everybody Later and MackKenzie tells a friend on the phone, I do work out and my butt got fat as fuck. I don't even know how to I can't even tell you. Everyone always tell me my butt fat as fuck. And my butt was cute and little before, but now it's fat and cute In another conversation, Natalie mentions, there's going to be a podcast about this case tonight on somebody's, you know, thing Kenzie, it's insane Mackenzie is like, what do you mean? It's gonna to be on wet? Somebody's going to be talking about it on their podcast. Everybody's just looking for their five minutes of fame. How many likes can they get? you know Natalie says, I think you know why this is so popular is because it's a mystery. But it's not, but you know what I mean Natalie keeps encouraging Mackenzie, wrrite your book. St writing your book. You start writing your book, okay In that same exact conversation, Mackenzie asks her mom, how do you spell eventually? And her mom stops halfway. She's like E V E. And then she's like, hold on, I gotta type it out. Maybe neither of them should ever write books. Maybe they should read a book first. But it appears if not books maybe modeling. Mackenzie says, I have this feeling that something's gonna to happen with all these people reaching out. So she's getting a lot of weird guys reaching out and producers reaching out, producers probably trying to get her for a documentary, and then guys probably lying, saying they're producers just to get in contact with her But there are a lot of people who reach out to inmates that they deem pretty. Preepy guys. But she is like This must mean something. And she's like, remember that one guy who got arrested for murder? And you know, he became like a model Yeah, because he was just like everyone was loving his mugs shot So she thinks something's gonna to happen And Natalie is like, ye, and these m you know these people are paying money to talk to you because you have to buy stamps to send letters. And MackKenzie says, as they should is happening. Yeah What the fuck is happening? But Natalie Yeah No, I was losing my mind. There were so many times. he was like, are you okay, baby a mom in this? Yeah. MackKenzie both are kiking over. Yes. L what is happening? Hypothetical imaginary scenarios that will never happen and they're kiking over it. And it's like And then giving the context of what's going on, this is not real. I feel like even if they weren't not if she was not on trial for murder. and she's sitting at home saying like, I just have a good feeling I'm going to be a model. As a mother, you would still be like, you have to be careful. There's a lot of scams out there. And like maybe you should have a backup plan because you know, the chances of becoming a model are very slow. And then for the mom to say, no, these manans are paying money to talk to you Yeah, That's not really like the best thing in the world either. Yeah. Yeah But Natalie keeps encouraging Mackenzie to write her book because quote, you start writing your book, Nobody can twist or use things, your feelings, you know, that you say in a weird way to fit their gross narrative kind of thing. I'm serious. I'm very serious. This is going to be a good one In another call, MackKenzie is ranting, Yeah, that shit is just irritating as fuck. They're acting like I killed eighty five people. I didn't kill nobody And while all this is happening Natalie encourages her. Save the world She says to MackKenzie, while you're there, go to school, right? Do what you gotta do And you know, maybe you should go into freaking law school and fix the system because what the fuck is this Mcenzie says, I don't wantan to do math and stuff like that though I don't know if that's what's involved with. I would, but I don't know if I want to take the time to do it because it's like a lot of work Yeah, but you have time, right? And you are an amazing arguer. You know what I mean? Because you know, you're based on facts and you tell people what it is and you don't stop. People need that. Think of how you defend people that have been wronged, Kenzie. They need you But one particular jail call that has been going viral is of Natalie telling MackKenzie It's on the Today Sh, girl, I'm telling you they're about to get ready for the biggest plot twist of the century, right What What did they say about me No, it's not on the TV. it's just online and they're just reposting a story, but that's okay. That's okay, right? That's all right. plot twist, right? That's okay. Write your book. St writing your book. You hear what I'm saying W part to us that she is not guilty or whatever, right Yeah And so she's like, so wait, it's all over the world now. The today' show is like national news. Mackenzie's like getting hyped. Okay. I gotta tell you one more thing It was published in English It's Wld newews I think the Daily Mail just publishes it like in all their publications, but yeah, the UK. mom is so excited right now. Yeah. like so excited. Yeah MackKenzie's case is international newews. Yeah. And she's so excited. They're giggling. They're like, wow. Yeah. but we are famous. Yeah. And MackKenzie's like, it's on the daily mail. In UK Mcenzie's like, maybe Kim Kardashian will reach out herself That's what I'm saying, I'm hoping, you know, I'm hoping we're getting there. So I was gonna do this anyway, so this is great And they can just reach out to us. Craziness, baby girl Mackenzie then relays this information to a friend. Okaykay? She's relaying the good news. My mom is like, well, maybe Kim Kardashian' seen it and I'm like, I hope And the friend is like, yeah, maybe Kim will know that it's all over. I mean, like, I mean, that's the only thing that might be good about the whole media thing. Maybe Kim will see it So this is an undated jail call, but I have an inkling it feels like it could be around the Netflix time because they do talk about this being in the news during the trial and very early on in this case, and Mackenzie was very stressed She didn't like it being on the news And then with Natalie even saying like, this is what I was going to do anyway, and maybe Kim Kardashian will reach out. it seems like with Netflix, their whole intention was like we're going get some sort of appeal. We're gonna get people riled up for injustice. I think that's how they saw it themselves. I don't know for sure, but that's the feeling that I get. And so maybe they think the news, the attention is great because now people finally see the injustice and oh my gosh, the crime of putting her in jail. prrison. Yeah. And so the friend says, I mean, that's the only thing that might be good about the whole media thing. Maybe Kim will see it. So it doesn't it doesn't sound like it was around the same timeframe as the trial when they are talking about these media calls and they don't like it. So that's but I don't know it's undated, right? But McKen whyy are they so excited that Kim's going to see it Because Kim likes to fight for people who were wrongly convicted likeike she'll fight for people who are on death row that You're saying that Kim's going to repost this and say free Mcenzie. Yeah, and it'll start a little movement and there will be like a change dot org and then maybe she will get out, right? And Mcenzie's like, I don't know I have to figure out because I'm real nervous. And I want Kim Kardashian to be my lawyer. She's a lawyer. Kim Kardashian passed the baby bar, which I don't think is true at all. I don't think she passed the baby bar yet. She has been trying to pass the baby bar The baby bar is notoriously hard to pass, right? But She's a lawyer Also I didt pass. I don't think she did. Yeah. I know she's failed a few times, which is not like shading or shaming someone because the baby bar is that hard. Yeah. Right. But she also has like a completely other career that she's very busy with. So I don't know, right? But I don't think she's a lawyer yet She gets innocent people out of jail Who's saying this? Mackenzie And I do want to clarify, I do think that Kim Kardashian advocating for people who are on death row that are innocent of their crimes is probably one of the best things that she's ever done. So this is not me saying like, oh, she's not a lawy yet. Like it's actually very difficult to pass the baby bar. But I'm just saying, factually, I don't think it's correct. Anyway, the friend is like, yeah, she does all the time. Kim works hard. like, yes, Miss Kimberly We're going to have to get you out And like tell her, Mcenzie is saying, and like tell her, I will buy all her skims. And I only wear skins Bing, baraboo. You have to throw a dinner party And your life depends on this dinner party. okay? I tell you, if nobody shows up to your dinner party, you are screwed. And you can either invite group A or group B. Group A consists of twelve people, twelve strangers. You don't know them justust one person has to show up to your dinner party. That's it, okay? Do you invite group A with twelve people or group B? Group B consists of just one person. You got one shot versus group A, you have twelve shots. The question almost sounds dumb because it is and I just be making up questions, but it's very obvious, you choose group A. You invite the twelve strangers and hope that at least just one of them shows up Now what if I said I started a rumor I went in there and I told Group A, the group with twelve strangers, that you never wash your hands before prepping dinner. They start talking to each other before the dinner party, they start phone calling each other. Did you know they don't wash their hands before dinner? likeike before prepping anything then group B, that singular person They are professional food tasters. They know they're not the health department, and I don't really start this rumor. I say, whatever if they wash their hands or not, that's not what where you're basing your conclusion off of if you show up or not. It's weird, but like what about the next scenario You invite group A But all you can give them is the coordinates to your house Not a home address, the cotinates I mean, you still have twelve chances that one person's going to show up, right? One person is going to go through the hassle of decoding the coordinates. Some might plug them in wrong, but at least like maybe one will show up, you don't know tell you group B, you know that one person is a coordinate expert. It's as easy as them to show up to the coordinates as if you wrote the house address with the house number and the street name, they know how to read it easily. Who do you invite This is like a very over compplicated way of describing jury and bench trials, okay? A bench trial being instead of the jury deciding your fate, it's one judge. And there's really only two reasons that people will choose that and it's like the examples that I just gave. So especially in criminal cases, they like a jury trial The mentality is you have to flip one That's why there's lawyers who specialize in vader, just picking a jury They come in just for picking the jury and then they leave. They're not trial lawyers. Flip one. Just one. That's it And you gott to flip them hard. You can't just flip them and say like, oh, now I have a little bit of doubt. they have to be able to stand their ground and say, no, like I have enough reasonable doubt. But you have technically twelve chances at reasonable doubt versus with a judge, you have one shot. And a judge is a professional hearer of excuses. They have heard every excuse and every argument in the book. It makes sense to opt for the jury But from my very limited research, it seems like there's two reasons why people would opt for a bench trial if they have the option. So the first option is a very rare situation of science This case is overly technical. There's extensive data. The whole narrative is datab based. There's no emotionally compelling narrative. All the facts, the arguments are rooted in complex scientific data. It would be worth considering Now this is also like a double edge sword Sometimes the confusing data, you want to go for a jury trial Cuse them Yeah conffuse them and make them believe it's reasonable doubt. but it's not, it's just they don't understand the data because we're all lay people. We don't like we're not specializing in this. Yeah. Right? But if your innocence is in the data, maybe you do opt for a judge Because they're technically above average in the Smarty pants department. They may be able to decipher the truth and the science a bit better than twelve jurors who don't have much experience in it So science, right? The second common reason is the defense is not a factual argument. So like the science is like the coordinates But the second one is more like the washing the hands argument. The defense is not a factual argument or an emotional argument or a compelling narrative argument. The argument the defense is making is legal. So for example, a man is charged with possession of a firearm by a felon. Everyone agrees he has a criminal history. That's fact. He has this object in his backpack That looks like a gun. and it is a gun. But the gun's firing mechanism was permanently removed years ago. And the statute in this jurisdiction defines firearm as something capable of expelling a projectile. So the defense is, sure he had it, sure he's a felon. sureure is, but it's not a firearm. By the letter of the law, it's not a firearm A judge may be more inclined to see this legal argument versus a jury might argue doesn't really matter. It's a gun shaped object. He had it in his possession. He couldn't have been wanting to do anything good with that Basically a case of I'm not arguing about what happened, I'm arguing about what the law means Or another reason is like the facts are just revolting. and maybe the defendant is also revolting, but the law is on their side. So a hypothetical could be And this is from Reddit, Like someone says, I'll give you a completely hypothetical as an example, right? Let's pretend you represent someone who is found with one hundred terabytes of CCAM and you realize there is an argument that under the case law, the person didn't actually disseminate or create any of it got yourself in this weird gray area situation You're probably gonna to have a better chance convincing a judge to find in that manner. If a jury gets a hold of it, they're gonna convict you as soon as the state proves your client was in possession. That's it. The facts are revolting, but maybe the law's on your side. The legal case is you know, maybe a little weak on the prosecutors. A judge can hold a line for beyond a reasonable doubt where jurors would be so disgusted beyond reasonable doubt line would be overridden by their disgust. They're like, I don't care about the law. He had it. Like that's all that matters to me. Fascinating. McKenzie Sereilla chooses to have a bench trial where one single judge will decide her fate. It has been argued that maybe she chose a bench trial because the defense was going to argue that the black box data from the car is not enough to judge whether or not McKenzie had intent and that maybe it was going to be rooted in the data. becausecause that's the intent part they could argue. Whereas maybe jurors would see the black box data. It's not like emotionally compelling. They'd rather see the text messages, Instagram posts and what she did after as more evidence Another argument could be made that the facts are revolting, herer messages with Dom, her behavior before and after the crash, her smoking and driving posts, it's revolting, but maybe the defense believed it still does not prove intent legally. So maybe it's a legal argument of like, yes, she's kind of like not a good person. but like legally is this intent However, I do think it should be noted, I think the outcome of the trial was the right outcome, notot that my opinion matters, but I tend to agree with the verdict. I also think the choice on Mcenzie's part to have a bench trial was kind of odd I don't know if that was the best choice. I've listened also to a ton of lawyers be puzzled at the choice, but it really doesn't matter. Just because you choose the wrong choice doesn't mean there's injustice done to you, nor does it mean the outcome should be different. It's just more so like, why did you do that Attention all fabulous, thriving and gorgeous quueens. It's time to grab your favorite look gloss because Mavis Beaumont is back. The final season of Survival of the Thickest is dreaming now. Watch our favorite plus sized fashion Eista, cononquer her career, find true love, and step into her dream life. Plus, the guest list is stacked with comedy and fashion icons like Wanda Sykes, Ice Te, and Jen Alliance. Don't miss the ultimate happy ending The finale of sururvival of the Thiggest is now streaming only on Netflix This episode is brought to you by OPill, the first ever over the counter daily birth control pill available in the US. OPill is a daily birth control pill that's FDA approved, full prescription strength, and estrogen free. Plus there's no prescription needed. Finally, the days of needing a prescription for birth control are over. Take control of your health and your reproductive journey find OPle online and at most major retailers. Picture this. It is the end of a long week. You're unwinding in the tub listening to your favorite true crime podcast and then chronic hives come back. Again, in the middle of the episode, What a wet blanket. lookooks like another spell of itchy, swollen, red or skin colored hives. If you have chronic spontaneous urticaria or CSU, there may be a different treatment option Worried about your chronic hives interrupting our next episode, Learn more at treatmhives d. com slash rotten It's very interesting when you consider the fact that the defense did not bring in a medical expert to testify about POT and the potential that McKenzie suffered a POTS related episode. They only brought in her mom to testify to the judge. Which a defendant's mother's assertions are probably held very low on the scale of credibility, but it's interesting that they didn't bring in a medical expert. It makes you wonder whether It was such a bad defense B, there's no medical expert that would be willing to testify in the way that the defense would consider helpful and they would get eviscerated in the cross examination by the prosecutors. Or C, the defense knew the judge would see through some medical expert bullshit testimony that there's it's just it's going be dumb. The judge is going to get peeved and it's not going to make any sense. And it's just going to cost a ton of money And or maybe all of the above Also, I do think it's interesting that they didn't bring in an expert because we are still talking about it to this day. because they left it open to interpret They left it open as like a possibility. Now, had they brought in a medical expert and they got eviscerated during cross examination, that would be completely ruled out So instead of ruling it out, they've left it open But then there's this whole argument where people are like, well, did McKenzie not get a fair trial because she her defense attorney was so incompetent, they didn't even bring in a medical expert. Kind of, you know, it's an argument that goes in circles. MackKenzie states that she doesn't remember anything after the crash. and I mean, they don't bring in a POTS expert, but they also don't bring in an amnesia expert of any sort because people are skeptical that MackKenzie conveniently does not remember anything in the pivotal moments before the crash A lot of people who have been in car accidents anecdotally say that that is a fact like is in fact something that does happen to them, but not bringing in an amnesia expert who can testify to that is a very interesting choice. Unless the defense thinks that whatever the expert will testify to, the judge isn't going to buy it One former resident in the Reformatory is asked whether or not they saw MackKenzie show any signs of pots in jail, and she says Not once. She seemed like a very healthy young girl. I mean, she was constantly in the yard. There were even times where we were in the middle of a heat wave and she was laying out with baby oil, tanning in a hundred degree weather. She was very active, always walking. I never saw her get blood pressure checks, routine emergency. like, I never saw her go to take any sort of medication. She seemed healthy to me And we went through like thirty one thousand pages of text messages between Mackenzie and Dom. and it seems like most of her very strong health concerns came from. It does appear that she had a strong ED and she lost her period at some point. And like there's a lot of conversation where Dom is encouraging her to eat and like trying to get her to eat So I think that they don't really ever talk about pots ever But like maybe they chose the bench trial because they were going to argue the legal technicality that yes, this happened. The crash was clearly done by Mackenzie, but legally it's not intent because she was passed out. or for whatever reason. If the bench trial was chosen for the fact that the black box information is so technical that a lay personers would not be able to decipher it, which I don't necessarily agree with that. But if that were the case, it still confuses me the defense didn't provide compelling arguments on how that's the case. I think even Karen Reed's black box data was more hotly debated than this case. So I'm just a bit confused on the purpose of the bench trial, or was it chosen because they just thought Mackenzie is just so unlikable that only a judge could put aside her actions before and after the crash and rule solely on what she's charged with. I have no clue One Redditor theorizes, if the prosecution is able to even get a few of those social media posts of hers admitted, then as a lawyer, I would push for a bench trial. She came across horribly, and whether instructed to do so or not, I could absolutely see jurors seeing her relentless self adulation, performative indifference, rules don't apply to me. I get what I want attitude and say to themselves, Yeahah, that seems like the type of girl who would and could do what she did or what the prosecutors say she did Like another viral case is Michelle Carter. Do you guys remember her? She encouraged her boyfriend to self exit through text messages? She famously opted for a bench trial because her behavior Oh, she was found guilty. She's found guilty of involuntary manslaughter, but her behavior was so deplorable, like those text messages are gonna be admitted. She's not a likable person by long shot. And the defense argued all these legal technicalities of like, okay, yeah, she did do those things, but technically it's not manslaughter. They argued she wasn't even there. They argued there was no bodily harm inflicted by her. to free speech, Like they're arguing all these legal stuff, but it's like, you're a gross person So they thought the jury would never see past you're a gross person, but I guess the judge didn't either And also in that case, I agree with the verdict. I actually think it should have been stronger, But she was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter Obviously, these are not even remotely similar cases, but it just does make you wonder that maybe yeah ors would have found both of these girls not very redeemable. And sure in hindsight, it might be easy to say, oh, well, maybe Mcenzie was dumb for choosing a benchge trial, but who knows? All I know is Mcenzie does seem to piss off a lot of people. Even during the trial, it's very clear Mackenzie and her family know that all her jail calls are being monitored and typically, this is the most sensitive time is during the trial. in preparation for the trial and during the trial, the prosecutors are listening to every little thing that's going on. But Mcenzie still voices her frustration against the prosecution to her mom. She says on a recorded jail line And that girl prosecutor would be so pretty if she wasn't such bitch. She is a bitch. I hate her. And the man, the boy prosecutor, I'm like, man, do you have another suit or? What? Because you wear the same suit every fucking day, you dirtest fuck. I know that suit stink with that roll in your neck. like his bald dumbass, I hate him. He's uglilyest fuck and like Why are you doing this right now? For someone who is on trial for murder, MackKenzie is quite opinionated about how people look. She also rants about the detective that testified. I was trying to look at him like, what is he? He's not white. He's so ugly. It almost seems like Natalie is trying to soften the statement. Well, he's definitely ugly on the inside, but Mackenzie brings it up in another conversation. He's not white, What is he? He's ugly as fuck Bilt weird as fuck. I'm like, whyy you thick at the bottom and small at the top? He's slim thick for a man and it just throws me off. them again, I They in the middle of the trial. Keep in mind, Natalie and Steve, this entire time have been screaming from the hilltops that Mcenzie is not a bully, that she just has a fierce personality. But then there's moments on these jail calls where MackKenzie will be talking to her mom and she gets distracted by a new inmate that's coming in and she says, o my go, another girl just got moved in our pod She looks slow as fuck Natalie's like, womom, she may just be distraught Because they're new. they just got into prison No, she look and then she says the R word She's meaner than a wet cat. I always find it interesting when people who have zero sympathy for others expect full sympathy for themselves from every single person around them She's talking about how she doesn't want to go to court, aK to her own murder trial She's like, if one of Davon and Dom's friends, do you guys remember H? I talked about H. He was one of the first students to kind of start his own little investigation. And yes, he did come up with some conspiratorial thoughts about what happened and even the police pointed out some of it was a little off, but he was very passionate about trying to get justice, right? And you have to have some level of respect for that, but he also He's the one that responded to Mcenzie on social media when she posted about Dom. and then he was like, what about Davion? Mackenzie says, I don't want to go to the courtroom if H is in the courtroom. I don't feel safe with him anywhere near me. I feel like he's gonna attack me Natalie is like, I don't know if there's anything you can do about that I'm going to refuse to go in the courtroom, then Honey, you can't. just don't even look over there And then he's like hugging Miss Russo. she's probably the one that told him to come harass me at the grave and follow me that day There is zero proof of that, by the way. And it's just kind of weird. You're the one on trial for killing two people. I don't know if there are that many people that are scarier than you in the town of Strongsville And I do get that there is some nuance to who is in the room during a murder trial. The defendant usually wants to have family and friends to show up to show the jury or the judge in this case that they have support. That not everybody has turned on them. so it must mean that there is a shot at redemption, right? MackKenzie asks Natalie if Rosie and Bubba can come to the courtroom, which Natalie responds. Kenzie, I'm not talking about anything on the phone. I already told you, I already told you if they can or can't and why tryry to get as many people to come to my court as possible. The people that can can, some people have to work and if they can't get out of work, they can't come. Mackenzie is upset that Rosie has not shown up to court a single time to support her, and her mom Natalie has to explained to her over the course of one too many jail calls that quote, Rosie cannot show up to court because she's on the defense witness list. And if the defense were to ever call her, they cannot because she's been there for other parts of the trial. And if there is a sequestion order in place, which there most likely is, judging based off the jail calls, right, then Rosie can't come to court Which side note, remember Rosie was like, I was willing to testify, but I was never called. I think that applied both ways. I'm assuming the prosecution never called her because she's on the defense witness list And most likely, it would not help the prosecutor's case. Like she would just be such a risky witness that would provide probably no value to the prosecutors But it is interesting that it was phrased as more so like, oh, if the prosecutors called me, I would to come, right? But there is a little bit more to the story Anyway, the whole thing just does not feel right to Mackenzie. She's not having it good old Mackenzie, sharp as a marble. She still doesn't like that Rosie hasn't shown up to court And on top of that, there's this developing issue where Rosie is friends with people who don't like McKenzie, and this is like really bothering Mcenzie. I deduce this from the fact that McackKenzie brings it up across multiple different jail calls with her mom when they could be talking about literally anything else. One call starts off normally with McKenzie talking about how she couldn't sleep all the night before because quote, somebody's fucking arguing loud as fuck at four AM. and I couldn't go back to sleep. But then I got anxiety because I forgot to tell you So Rosie's hanging out with like Natalie interrupts her. No, I know, no, that's all fixed. I told her not to say anything because it's not confirmed and it's one hundred percent not true. She unfriended them and everything I don't believe that. I do, becausecause how are you gonna post that shit about me? So she's saying that Rosie is hanging out with this girl named Sammy. And Sammy has been posting negatively about MackKenzie online. and MackKenzie is upset that Rosie is hanging out with someone like Sammy. How's she knowing all of this? Because another friend will call her andatle. The other friend that I believe is the other one in the documentary' too involved over what? And I also think it's weird that Natalie's so involved. Natalie is like, how do you know she's with Sammy every day? Because every time I would call Rosie when I would be, you know at free phone call day, she would be with Sammy. And if Sammy's gonna post that weird ass shit about me and Rosie's cool with her, I'm not gonna to be cool with her So Natalie is like, I'm going to reach out to faith and faith is going to look into it Now Faith is the other one in the Netflix documentary and like has supports Yeah MackKenzie. Yeah. And so Natalie is like faith's checking into what that was. I don't think they're together anymore. Like I don't think they're hanging out anymore. Well, Faith told me that they hang out every single day and I believe faith because I want to be told stuff like that. She doesn't know that though. I don't know if she knows that or not. She talked to Rosie last night, so let's just wait to see what she says. But that's weird as fuck. What the fuck Right. How come I don't have this issue with any of the other people who just like support me I don't know if it's an issue though, sweetie. It's clearly an issue. I mean, she clearly took down all the pictures of me off her Instagram with her and that's weird as fuck. And then she won't put free Kenzie and shit, like that's weird. And now she's hanging out with someone who wants to be like, yp when they find me guilty of murder. Like that's just just wait till you talk to faith I will literally block Rosie's contact on here. I don't know why. I just get weird ass vibes from her I know, and that's because she means a lot to you. What? She means a lot to you No, that's not faith in Jada and Kendra mean a lot to me too and I don't get those vibes from them. so that's not why. That's definitely not why. Mackenzie gets a little upset at her mom saying, But why didn't you tell me is the crazy thing? I don't like that. How' I know Natalie tells her that she just needs to talk to Faith first before talking to Rosie and not spread unnecessary anxiety or whatever unless she's sure about it. But Mackenzie is still ranting about Sammy saying, So weird, imagine posting my face and shit just for clout and shit Mackenzie's simplicity is enviable. Later in the call, Mackenzie brings it up again, asking, So what did Rosie say to you about this shit? Kenzie, she loves you to death, and don't forget she was on your witness list I'm aware that doesn't mean anything. No, she loves you. I think she feels like she got weird vibes. I said that to her before and she was like, No, no, please tell her I love her so much and the summer is unbearable without her. I think about her every day But that's all she says every single time. Like that is so weird to me. I'm just weird it out. I just feel like, why did you delete everything off Instagram about me Asask her Ken Why are you hanging out with people that are weird as fuck k her, askk her just to be like, I heard you were hanging out with people that are glad I'm in here. Is that true? I don't even want to call her though and waste my time Don't accuse her. Don't accuse her. As her acc usinging the fuck of her. don't give fuck. I've already told you my people wouldn't lie That's not true though. Talk to faith first and see what the conversation was and then ask her