Vendor Choice and Digital Storefronts

This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a fifty page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online makes sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responssees set upp required compatibility and availability varies eighteen plus Greetings and citationations, welcome back Sacred S symbs Playtation podcast. This is episode number four hundred and twelve. Only eighty eight more until episode five hundred. My name is Kole Moriarti Join is always by myon Chris R Rean showing off his guns today How you doing, my friend? Good to see you M, I've done okay. It's a nice sunny day Got some food feel well rested. Hard to complain Must be nice. Yeah It must be nice it's not not true for you No, no But Yeah, nice to see you. You look at you look A This is It's it's always it's weird now because I just I remember when I was training for the boxing thing, I just remember being like It was like it was way crazier. So now it's like, I'm fine Thank God I still got like a good metabolism, but Far cry from Yeah, yeah, you were really fromom where I was like one hundred and thirty eight or something. and now I'm like one hundred and twenty two All it's got do. I could eat you.s I could eat you for lunch Yeah probably I really could . We'll do that on stream So in one hundred nugget challenge in Conie Chris Hole Like in Iiguana things? I don't even know. Good to see you Chris Dustin Firm an execut produc How are you today, friend? G good to see you I'm just fine. My grandma had a pet iguana When I was a kid His name was Howard And he ate raw Beaten eggs That's all I have interesting to say A for today That's it Eggs Yeah hear it Yeah, she would just like put some eggs in the thing, you know, beat them up and then he would like like lap it up like he's a cat Mm in Al So but that's one of those memories that like it's so far back in my mind Like I can remember like his like enclosure, his cage And I remember seeing him like you know flap around or whatever in the living room. but And it's almost like did it really happen You know, it's one of that old of memories. Right, ye My grandma had a weird way of naming her pets. She had Howard the iguana She had a cat named John dog named Butch That's c. A cat named the John is insane Oh, and she also had a cat named Betty So they all had like very normal non pet names. I like that. I like human names for animals. I think it's funny. John the cat. I thought thinking back now, like actually is pretty cool Joh the cat a little drive. Mikea's parents have a cat named Billy Billy Which I think is is a fun name for a That's cute. But I think the animal names, like I've always had, you know I always wanted to utilize that to not have a human name or a fictional human name, Chunley For instance. Yeah U Sylvester. Which is the human name, but it's Sylestter of the cats obviously. It's an insane human name.. It is yeah, Sylvester. Sy, I guess is Sylvester in the Spranos, right? What you say Oh, yeah, no you're right Well it's Slvia, right? Silvio. that'sv Syvio, Yeah, yeah, of course of course. Yeah. But like Sylvester. Yeah, Sylvester's like, I don't know, man. arere there is there a famous Sylvester Stone Oh, I guess so That's the only one I can think of, to be fair. Yeah, let me say, like fam. That's literally only the only fucking one. Sylvvesters. There're loononey tunes Sylvester McCoy A Scottish actor best known for playing the seventh Doctor in the classic Doctor Who series. Oh, Sly stone. Sylvester of the cat's on here.ylester the cat, That's I wass thinking of. Pope Sylvester I first, an early fourth century bishop of Rome who serves as pope during the legitimization of Christianity in the Roman Empire , So you like to go back about sixteen hundred years Yeah Now we have the pope doing the six seven meme Oh man I wanted I wanted an American pope so bad and I thought it was so fun when we got an American pope. and now I'm, oh boy, we should have just gotten some fucking African pope and been done with it. It's a real It's a real monkey's paw situation, huh? Look that? I don't think he knew what he was doing In that clip. I feel like I'm like, man, he could have been duped. He could have been doing something Heinous which I guess you could argue he was Right Yeah. because I mean, the Roman the or another the Catholics believe Hope is like borderline God likeke He's like the M He's the closest. He's like an intermediary, Yeah I don't know ch. if that's true, then I don't know if he should be Do it all seven. Do all that Yeah, I don't know if he should be doing all that Then again we had it wasn't too long ago we had a pope who was in the in the Hitler youth. so In some ways this is a of a conundrum. I remember that so well with that guy. He was a pope for only a little while that guy but he was like everyone wass like, ye, this guy was a Nazi, but he was a kid, so he was kind of forced to know it. I'm like, Yeahah, I mean it's fair enough. Okay,'s that's a I mean, it's one of those things where it's like I don't know. I obviously your kid, you know, you don't know what the fuck you do. It's like what's that little kid from a Is it Shirley Temple who did like the black face Yeah, was like Yeah. It was like, I mean, you don't know what you're doing. Yeah, you don't, you don't. But at the same time it's so easy I know from my perspective, I've never once been conscripted into the Hitler youth Right. my air conditioner just went off. I'm just gonna to turn it off. I don't want to freeze. Yeah, please Oh boy ould we wait for him to come back or I don't know. I feel like he left at the perfect lull. So now like what do we do? Yeah. What do we do without Chris? There he is Thank goodness We didn't know what to do because we were like, well, we're kind of like at a natural endpoint to continue the conversation So we're just going away there Sorry, like it just it just turned on and I was like, I am not gonna especially in a tank t, dude, likeike my air conditioner goes down to like Sixty eight degrees sometimes. And I was like, I'm not freezing for the rest of the f It's like what they say about the hotel air conditioner. and it is true. It's like holy likeike where you you wake up in the morning and you can't even get out of bed to shut it off Because it's like you're in, you're suddenly in the Antarctic the Thing station from nineteen eighty two or whatever, and you're like, you can't fucking move Yeah. it might be a little cold though. It's been ninety five degrees for five days straight here. Wow. Obviously it's gone into the seventies at night U It's supposed to rain now for like a week So hopefully that it comes true because it's Dryes a bone here, Jerry, Dryes a bone. What are we doing here? Sacred symbols PlayStation podcast We go live each and every week and we're pleased to be here with you Thank you for your support over on patreon dot com slash Last day Media. I don't know if you guys do you guys use it Google Docs? Well, you're using it now, but do you use it typically Okay, I'm in Google Ds all the time They change the icons. Have you noticed this I noticed it on Gmail. Yeah, right. And I'm like It just looks like I'm like what it's subtle You know, when you're a little t But I'm like, what is that? it's's and I keep looking. I like go Oh, I got to pull up the it's, it's just different. I don't like when It's like when Spoty changed their log a week ago. I'm like why'd you that It was their b Yeah Yeah, the Sotify thing bothered me more. I'm not seeing anything even on Gmail that's different Yeah, it looks a little more like in line with like liquid glass. Yeah, it's a cleaner, cleaner look I see exactly what you mean Maybe I just don't have it yet or something. That's weird stop changing things for no reason I'm sick of it Even Google camp help themselves, although apparently they're going to turn the whole search engine into like an AI thing now. Yeah, great. Awesome. love it. That was inevitable It's time for people been talking about duck Ducko and stuff and It's time for people to just start using other things. I mean, we just the funny thing is that we refuse to use anything else. So like people are like Man, Amazon's fucking evil You know, and then everyone's like I wass like, where did you get this? I got it in four hours on Amazon And I'm like, yeah, like at some point you got to make a move if the if it's that bad You know, but no one wants to do it. I don't want to do it I want to continue to use the evil compomanies in and their products as well because they're so good Googleocs. I remember moving over to Google Docs late my IGN career and I was really upset about it And and like many things, it ended up being a really great. L really good Because we used to write in word and then we would send things to each other. And then we got this new review editor, Dan Stapableton who's still there and he's like, No, everyone' going use Google Docs now and I'm like hell I So I started just using Word and then uploading it as a DocX or whatever to Google Docs. But then I was like, yeah, Google Docs is great. Like why would you ever use why would you ever pay Frankord This is like a killer of a thing that Google did. It costs them nothing to do it Yeah. Yeah just fuck with Microsoft. It's there are I wish there are certain things about like the organization of Google Docs that could be like fixed. like it's kind of crazy to me that it's still just like a H's a front page of a bunch of bullsit And it's like, I really can't make folders for this And if I can, it's like Often like some other weird window that' like it has to be a modle There's things like that I'm just like I'm kind of astonished that it still kind of sucks in that regard. But I mean, it's convenient enough And the offline the offline mode too is really nice. Yeah the offline mode is cool as well. And and being able to absorb things from the outside and being able to spit things out in the proper file It just works really well I mean, Google' a great company. I just they're just also evil So it's a hard thing to to balance out. R rememember their whole thing was like, Do no evil or something like that? And then they stopped saying that. That was like, that's no longer our moto. and I'm like, why I was abouted to break that up. I was like, Yeahah remember when they stopped promising? promising to not be evil.s classic American capitalism. loveove that A veryery good Well, that's it. I don't even wantan to do the show right now But we have to have to do it. I'm kiding I'm happy to do this.'m looking to it all week. Dson, I watched your stream yesterday. You said you were looking forward to it as well Oh, this show Y your stream. Yeah,ah. I was saying I was looking forward to this episode I mean, it's going People are it's highly anticipated I know you have a lot of things to say I have some things to say. Chris certainly a lot of things to say and it's u People are There's a lot of anticipation among the audience for this episode which I believe you said this on Twitter, Col, we are going to be free for all. Yeahep. on Friday. I think we'll do what we'll do is this if you're down. We'll publish it right away on Patreon It's such a big thing we just put it up onaton imediate then Fr toorr and Friday at noon when the show would have gone live,'ll put it life for every That way we can You know feed the demand of the paying customer That's already here for us I'm not saying're going to no will even know us. we're not going to new subscribers because it's why would you think that the show would go live that early And then on Friday, yeah we'll make it live for everyone. Because I think it's important. I also and we'll talk about everything that happened, but I told Sony that we would go live with it on Friday and I wanted to prepare them for the things that we were tal going to say, which I was able to do becausecause I think that that's what's fair, because I'm kind of we're kind of working together. in a way to try to fix the problem that's happening or at least that's the way I read it They probably are like, please leave us alone. Tam But Yeah, so I want to because I was saying at the mic yesterday, I was like, we could just publish it right away everywhere, but I feel like that would be unafair because I did tell Sony you know, you u toil noon on Friday. That's why what I'm going to kind of go out because they're they're getting questions and bombarded with shit already. you know, and so I want to They've been incredibly helpful to me as I'm going to talk about in a little while And so I want to you know, honor that deal I didn' make a deal but I said that to them Well, did something happen . was I was thinking that. We'll get to it. It's a little this thing has no idea br up. Someone that's listening has no idea. Oh you had no idea that sacred symbol alost ended Yeah. It was about that close I will get to that, but Sacred symbols wasn't really gonna to end. I think the show would have taken a really dark complexion moving forward, though Um I will say that. I will tell you that much That's awesome Patreonot com slash dayaymedia for early ad f access. we couldn't do with you guys we appreciate you so much U A bunch ofs over there, not only for sacred symbol, early for free access to this show, but all the shows in our networks are a Nintendo show punching up, defining duke theXx pcast, somemind, the gameay p, eter,et Discord access, RSS feeds. You can use Spotify to connect to the shows. The best thing you want to do if you're on Patreon and you don't want to deal with Patreon is just send everything to your podcast service of choice using RSS feed. You can do that. Sacred symbols plus Our supplement to the show each and every week, interviews, deep dives, game, discussions, had a great conversation with Alyssa Marcante U contontroversial in quotes person U and fellow Long Islander, we had about a two hour conversation. We were only supposed to go for one hour. But we had good rapport. And so the conversation went almost twice as long Um and guilty fingers wrote it in saidad of Hoi a lot of people did a lot of wrote about this said of Hoioi. Just watch your conversation with Alyssa. this kind of content is exactly why I'm happy to pay my five buckaroos each month. mon don't say buakaroo I don't I hope she fel comfortable enough to maybe come back in the future for more content, discussion, keep it up That's the way I left with her towards the end of the show is like When I like someone on the show and this has happened before, this happened with a What's a good example? Jason Plasy this happened with Jaz This happened with Jaffy U people where I'm like, come back and do a normal content You know, like come back and talk about a game. with us on a spoiler cest or review discussion or whatever. The problem with her is She's very much a games as a service player. She plays some single player stuff as I understand, but she like loves Overwatch and I don't want to put boards in m like Fortnite. and I know she's really into Marvel rivals and So it's like, we don't really cover shit like that. But I think we can find a we did with Marathon and we did with Helldivers. so I assume we can find a place. And so yeah, she'll be back I'm sure And I really want to thank the I was really nervous about that episode, not from the content, but I just want people to be nice to our guests Um and Everyone was really nice stor Now when it went live for everyone, that's a different story Yeah but are peoplerol are Yeah, I can't control that. Yeah. control psychos Right. I think people were like, you didn't press her enough and I'm like, you don't watch my interviews very much because that's not what I really ever do I want people to say what they want to say. I'll push back when I can and challenge you give people rope Sometimes you can do really amazing things with it, sometometimes you hang yourself with it U, But you got to start that I don't think what people understand is that like you just get more Let me back up I've been doing this for a long time You interview people in a way where they talk. You understand what I'm saying? Like you don't. go into these, and I'm not fucking peers, Morgan I likeeers Morgan. But I'm but I'm not like, tryrying to get you I've never once tri I've never I don't think once in my entire career ever had a gota question like I'm on sixty minutes or some shit Right And I'm like, but. and then I like tap my my, you know It says right here that, you know, I'm like I just don't do that you got to have a You got to have a foundation and hope to have another conversation. and another conversation. And that's how Jaffy and I have done it for years now And she herself said on the show, which I thought was interesting. She wass like, I'd love to get in with you into it with you about representation. Um And I was like, yes, we'll do that Now that we've gotten all this shit out of the way, that can be another conversation. And I was thinking of you when she said that, Chris, because the conversation went in a different direction I wasn't able to do. but I wrote it in my notes, Mafia because I was like, you would find interesting That my co host, Chris Reagan nailed me last year I don't know if you remember No yeah with old country. when I was like, yeah, I really liked the Sicilian vibe of it and it felt of home and you're like, yeah, it's like representation And I was like, to be fair. So I was going to bring that up we weren. weren't, you know, I was I think there's There's too much binary Right, yeah. One of the things that I really respected that she said because I feel the same way about myself is that you're not always at your proudest straight up. like you're not always reacting right to things You're not always saying the right things You create like this aura around yourself that's inaccurate Speaking to her for five minutes made made it clear that she's Smart U interesting and has something to say. And that's more than ninety percent of the people in the space So I'm just I'm just letting you know Yeah It was a it was an epod. I listened to u I had it on in the background while I was cleaning my entire apartment No, thank you. But it was like, it was really like, I was like surprised That how you guys had a really good back and forth Sometimes you can tell like there's like chemistry with people and sometimes there isn't. Like, I've definite been in conversations with you where it's like,, I don't get love with this. Like this isn't This is like definitely like running the clock But that seems like really Really well paced Yeah, she, I was telling to this to Michael after a m. She's a long Islander. And there's something about that. They're like about like the the And I think she felt the same about me We're like we just kind it's just kind of a way, a way of talking and We were able to break the ice with something like that about being from Long Island, about our parents both working, public service. You know her parents are cops in New York City. My dad was a firefighter in New Yorkity. So we had all these connections, and then right into the conversation. And I think that that kind of thing is great to have that kind of What you might call social lubricant. Although I don't like that word very much this new fucking Google Docs comment. I really hung up on me. Yeah, I really can't I can't get over All right, so thank you so much for the kind words on there. other recent sacred Sybols plus episodes. We're going do Saros and Progmata soon. We were going to do Saros tomorrow and publish that next week. but My week has been burned to the ground. I need more time to get notes together. Record that next week. I'm sitting down the Uncharted for, the guy who did the Uncharted for real story or original story thing next week as well. How cool So we're going to have a stack of things going, which is going to be fun U otherther recent episodes, you know, kind of deconructing what we do PlayStation sixix and all the rest. we appreciate you guys over there sacred symbolsus on patreonot com slash last Dam media And then sacred streaming continues. We did Pragmata before everything went down. Ion stream. a very ironic. Yeah, it's a and an ironic game to play as well. We've done a bunch of marathon stuff obviously. I playlied in Saintslayer my most recent game in one sitting played vampire crawlers. I was, I don't know what we're going to do this coming week, but I was thinking for The next week, well, Adam Kel wrote in and said greeting gents Since Sony was gracious enough to give an extended lead time for the next state of play, which is interesting. We'll talk about that later Can we get a prediction Sacred Smols pllus episode just like the old days Now that they usually only announce it two to three days ahead, we've been missing out on the wild speculation along with punishments for not being first. Kep up the good work and hold your PSN accounts close and safe in these troubling times. Adam, thank you for writing in Because Sacred Simals pllus is so crowded right now. I think the move is so it's on the second, right the state of play So the first would be Monday becauseuse it's a Tuesday, which is interesting too So we'll just do a predictions episode should Chris and Brad Well, we can do without Brad if he's not available, but should Chris be available, we can do that the first onsacred stream stay out of the way of this barrage of content that's just going to push everything back on S sacred Tmbs plus best of both worlds so I think we'll do that Hes look for to it And then merch last day media d. store. I could just sent out a bunch of stuff recently T shirts, sweatsirts, stickers, remaining copies of hybroxia Pe have been asking about Sain. Slayer's physical version, ourur intention is to do one Nothing finalize yet, but think it will happen Let's get in the topics of discussion stt our legs a bit and then we'll get into everything that I know you guys want to hear about But we have to do things the right way or not at all It's like when I mow the lawn I notice like for instance, nebor occasionally he mows the lawn, but he doesn't weed whack And I'm like, well, why bother? That's me. Gott to get that weed whacker out You gota do I hate tying it up at the worst. I hate I hate that too. Well, because like you eventually get to that point where you have to replace it Like, you know, you like it shoots out because like the rolls and I'm like, God damn Last time I mowed my lawn and I was weed whacking and I was pretty close to being done and then it flew out. and I'm like, well, that's it. Yeah. that's it for today. Like that little bit's not getting done. I'm not doing I've been in that position and because I'm so OCD, I've like gotten scissors Oh I'm gonna finish like this this thing like like this way. So we got to do with the right we gott to do sacred symbol the way or not at all. and we begin here Boss ten George wrote in and said, Gentlemen, by the time this episode airs My family and I will be trapped in a car. I added like an extra syllable of family there. I don't know what that was all about My family and I will be trapped in a car for a six hour road trip to visit my in laws Naturally, I'll be forcing my wife and kids to listen to this podcast for the entire drive Please inform my young, impressionable children, Grace and Leo What a good father they have. Also let my wife, Allie. My sister's know that she truly selected the finest possible life partner from the available pool of candidates. Maybe we'll have a relaxing Memorial Day weekend I don't know if I can do that. I mean, did she make the best choice? Are you the best father? to Grace and Leo She's married to she's married to somebody who's forcing a an entire car full of people to listen to a podcast that they don't normally listen to. so Yeah Not a great start Little boy. littleittle girl. Little girl. Woman. respect the man. He won. Oh That's what I've been doing I call like a woman all the time, but ye, but like it's losing syllables for Im like, come on, come over here . It's like the trucker diot guy. Chris Shirly, you know the trucker diot guy. I do. I was telling Colin about him like he's like Gotta get some peanut butter cracker. Like he doesn't can't even say crackers. There's no ennunciation. Oh Yeah C on over the hill This is a heinous audio experience. I know it is. they get it into like s surroundound sound too, depending on like, this have a garlic y. They're all crying now. Little boy, you want to hear griping about the PlayStation network for three hours 't Oh my Godd, I can't even imagine Like I thinking about like being that young and being in the car with my dad and he's listening to like the equivalent of like God if I was like eight or whatever and like he's listening to three hours of like baseball commentary. That's not even like a baseball game. I would be losing my fucking mind. Yeah, it would be awful. I mean it is interesting in a way likeike sometimes I hear Michael listens to a lot of interesting like stuff that I would never listen to. She's really in like, grilling and smoking and all that kind of stuff. so she listens to these pags. they're huge Like some of these guys are like mat like they have their own spices, their own rubs and like they win competitions and it's cool So I listen to it every once a while, I'm like, this is not my shit, but it's so interesting that there's something for everyone These guys are getting into like charcoal for like four hours And am I cool for me Yeah, it's the internet, bab I guess what confuses me is like how much could there be to say? like, is there like is there new grilling? You know, there's new games. Right, right? N new games Right. But like but is there a new grill? Like's like there's a new gr or something kind of meet. Yeah, this' a new cut Yeah But we' do a new kind of cut. There's speculation on a new cut of meat. Yeah for an hour. We been shoulders Notorious meat leaker. And do they have leakers in there charcoal leaker. Chcoal leaker His name's like Kingsford fan or something and he like So no one really knows who he is. seems like hes an insider Weber Weber's coming out with a new grill. It was leaked on Fortune. Someone leaked the grille on Fortune Indeed, u Grace Leo and Allie, I hope you're enjoying the show. Hs like Well, did that come through? Yes And I'll make sure that It did come through, but' I'll amplify that. Sony I know you're listening as. I hope you enjoyed Enjoyed that too Crazy say Sacred Symbols is sponsored by Prize Picks, where responsible players can make their sports viewing just a little more interesting Learn more now in the Prize pickix app where you can use the code sacred to sign up. All sports enthusiasts know that each part of the annual calendar brings with it something special and unique. And right now we're somewhere quite interesting. 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Right now, add Lowe's! Get fifteen percent off, select custom entry and interior doors. Plus, save eighty dollars on the DWal twenty Volt Max two tool combo kit, now just one hundred sixty nine dollars. And at the Lowes Pro desk, bring us your materials list and get a quote in minutes. Handwritten, a photo, or even a sticky note is all you need. Keep your jobs moving faster and on budget At lows Valid through seven eight while supplies l. Selection veries by location Whatucking doing? doing? You did this to yourself. Good lord King of Chickens wrote in and said, Hey guys, I know this is going to be the top question on everyone's mind to ask, so I'll just get out of the way. Please ask Chris, who is reversed Jesus Sony's listening to this I mean, to be fair, they listen to it every week, but I feel like they're going to be especially interested in this episode. so yeah go ahead and tell them G guysys the tim timeestamping way ahead. Yeah, use the timestamps. Sonyony A littleittle soda Little Herman Herman used that his time stam. Herman, little boy M stamps. Who is reverse Jesus? We were doing We were doing a Star Tight episode, Kinkson' in Hai celebrating his engagement U so he's u he's gone for I think a couple of other days. It was me and Derek holding down the fort And we were just I don't know, we were just riffin and we were just talking about like what if what if there was just instead of the Antichrist, what if there was just a reverse Jesus who was who is hated by everybody except one guy You know, and like he was like, I don't know, tape to an X and he was like tape to an X putting a cave and After the third day, he he's Still there? I don't know, we were just like riffing. and it became like a really dumb like forty minute conversation about like the lore of reverse Jesus He had a bun He had a bunch of bread and fish, but he turned it into Yeah he turned everybody's wine into water and everybody's like, reverse Jesus I like one It was fun. I particularly like reverse Moses coming down with the zero suggestions Mount Son. And he comes and takes what they've written and then brings it back up, whatever exactly It's way better. No yeah, I don't know. This is the type of show it is. it's just nonsense I didn't expect to be asked about it on this show. because listen to snartink garbage Tice week, right, you guys do it Yeah, yeah, we do it twice. we usually do it in person, but Jinon's gone. We'll be back early next week should be you should be back Jeff pronounced with oh pronounced G off Be maybe it is I don't know this time Greetings to my little sexy sacred nuggets. Yeah, shut up. donon't say that What are the children of wealthy families? I like this question. I'm very curious to see what you guys think of this This is a serious question What are the children of wealthy families supposed to do with their money If they live quietly, they arere criticized as being unproductive. If they start a business and fail, they are accused of squandering their wealth. If they succeed, they are labeled NPo babies who only won because Daddy paid for the trophy. Personally I prefer it when the wealthy use their resources to give back much like the Affluin patrons who funded artists after the Middle Ages sparking the Renaissance. Without the Medici family, much of the world's great greatest art and science simp wouldn't exist in today's world If a Nppo baby like Meghan Ellison wants to start a company like Aaperna to bring new heart to the market, why is that a source of criticism Many of the games and movies she helped Green lightight were massive risks that traditional Hollywood studios or risk verse game publishers would have passed on Social media harbors a resentment that creates a catch twenty two with no path these people choose that will free them from public cynicism I'm sure they arere crying into their moneyy Woody Harrelson style, but I find this pervasive attitude exhausting. What's say you C? Well, I want to get in up with Wal this. This is an interesting one I feel like you're right. Actually. And I never really thought about it quite in those terms. You can't Win Maybe that's the cost of wealth, but it's not really fair either because you were born into it. You didn't ask to be born in and you were maybe lucky to be born into it certainly you're lucky to born This this goes into the question of let me even ask you guys this Chris, if you had like an enormous amount of money and then you had a child Would you get would you give all of the money? likeike, would you take care of that child forever and give them a ton of money? Because like even as an adult because my answer to that question for me would be yes I feel like that's like the whole game It should be some level of reasonable nepotism You know, like you do well by you right by your own people You know? Yeah, I mean, within reason. You know, like I think I would still want to I do think there is a scrappiness that is required R on some level. Even if it's not like, even if even if from like a, I don't know, like a millionaire billionaire perspective, it's not real in the sense because you kind of maybe know that maybe at a certain point you get to like twenty one years old and you kind of like I think realistically I'm going to be fine But there does need to be like some kind of I think you can have that from the very beginning You can't just be given everything when you're like five You're just going to be the most inseufferable person. Right. But be putting a trust until you're an adult for sure. That's the big thing to me, though is that a lot of people, the reason I ask is because you always hear these stories of like I don't know. Famous personers X is like, oh, when he's eighteen, he's cut off And I'm like, what's crazy. What what a fucking dickhead. Are you crazy? You're like, you're, I think Jim Carey might have said that about his kids or something and I'm like ? Like, you're not going to like give your shit to your kids? What is the purpose of hoarding all of it U that kind of bothers me actually. Like you're going to send them out like they could just have an easier life and you're sending them out. Um And they'd be like, I had to do it And I'm like, yeah but you did it. It's like it would be like my family coming from Italy, you know, or your family coming from Puerto Rico. And then they're like, all right that when they die, they're like everyone back You right, You got you got to come back again Go back to Sicily, get on the boat, go through Ellis Island like I did it, live in a fucking tenement house. It's like, no, like you did that So that I so that I didn't have to do it. It doesn't make any sense. You know, that's why I wanted to ask Yeah, I feel like The level of what you give to your kids is probably when you're in that position of extreme wealth is probably determine on how responsible you think they'll be with it. Like may let's say in the case where someone's like, I'm cutting them off at eighteen Maybe all they've done is party and be a lazy asshole for the last seven years. And it's like if I give you access to all this wealth, what's going to you know what's going to happen to it Rice So A lot of times with these wealthy people that have kids, not always. there's certainly examples of people that went off the kids that went off the rails, but a lot of times they are also successful like Go to Harvard So it really just depends on Yeah of what they can handle Yeah Someone might need that awakening, that rude awakening of what life is like without money in order to gain responsibility. Yeah Yeah, that's that's the thing it's like, I don't know. I think I think there's a fundamental Like I don't trust people who haven't worked service or retail or like they they've not had they've not had that experience becauseuse you can tell. Like I've met people who have who don't have that experience and it's like it's like, I don't even know there's like something that you can like register immediately It's like oh my Godd, you don't know how to treat people. You don' understand how people treat strangers It's it's kind of it's fascinating. And I do think like I mean, I was lucky, I guess, in some way because I only worked retail for a little while before I managed to like somehow make a lot of money on my own, but But I worked retail I've seen firsthand, like just like the way that people treat people. And I think you need that Um I think you need to experience that yourself. Everyone needs to experience someone snapping at you because they want something and that a bad tip for no reason. Yeah, and then you're wrong Yeah. likeike no matter what, because like the customers always write or whatever. it's like Nonsense, but I don't know, as far as like the the question of like, you know the Ellison or whatever, like the Neboaby stuff. like you can't free yourself from public cynicism in any way. And the way that I think about it is like Think about the people who aren't free from pub cynism who don't have a ton of money to fall back on and like, you know, don't have it like, that safe. So like I think it's fine. Like you can put a lot of money behind something I think it's cool that like someach people will patron the arts like that. I think it's great. But like, I mean, just I don't know, deal with the Cyicism like what do you mean? we're dealing with the cyicis gives the shit Yeah, I It's funny like I agree with you that I never worked retail I did work service And like at a deli Yeah Yeah people were fucking Iagine work with people, you know, Right Yeah. What what I was going to say was like, imagine doing that on Long Island dealing with like, Me. you know, u, cynical Loud Annoyed. peopleople friendly and boisterous But you guys like, I br a bagel boss I brought a boss on the conversation with a listen and she kn what I was talking about, because that's such a long island, iconic longong Island thing. Do you guys you guys know Bagel boss? Yeah I think w I think so. Is he that u that like short guy from the like the short guy that like freaks out like fak And then he freaked out in the deli and then people found a YouTube channel of like him freaking out at like at the seven hundred eleven at like dude, it's so like he is D when Dgan I that all happened when I was in Philadelphia at Daggan's recording knockback and Daggan and I were like fucking over the moon about like how funny we thought that like that shit was. I was like, oh my Godd, what it? because we saw it I'm like that's like five seconds and I'm like, that's got to be on ike before anyone knew like knew what it was I think he might have died. like h on Bagel bosses. Die. Do you think this bageable boss on a toamstone No I hope so. Bagel boss guy Chris Morgan is still alive, though he has largely faded from the public eye after facing severe health setpbacks Oh I think I saw I think I saw something like a Yeah you had a stroke something had a was Okay, right. That's what the new AI Gemini Google dot com tells me. plus I don't know man But yeah, like I like the question though. likeike the ' that is like an interesting kind of The whole where does money come from? The Nppob baby thing I get though Like I don't blame somebody for being an ep bab. It's like yeah, take every advantage you can But also there is something about it. like there's a new movie out obsession made by some YouTube people And it's apparently very good. I was really looking forward to seeing it And then I saw a video of him like doing a He's like a twenty six year old YouTuber and or like TikToker, I guess, specifically, more specifically. And he was doing an interview U where he was just talking to his dad and his dad was a screenwriter. And I remember being like, oh, I'm significantly less impressed but I'm looking forward to seeing it. I'm looking forward seeing it anyway. But it iss kind of those things that it does kind of dock a few points off for me. I was like, oh it's not that impressiveough L no shit The It's funny too with with just talking about experience and it like I try to treat everyone with respect regardless, but My real learning Everyone has these jobs to teach know you work a really hard job as a waiter or you work whatever The job for me was just being a groundskeeper at Northeastern Being with like real blue collar dudes. for five years Um while I was there. And that's sucked. I mean, it was a cool job. I made actually pretty good money considering the time. I was making like ten dollars an hour in two thousand two which is for an eighteen year old pretty great. Um But uh You know, I've I've talked about in the past, like I would walk around and pick up garbage. I'd change like garbage p like I would get in a fucking stinky golf cart and go around and change like every garbage can on the Northeastern and throw these things into the dumpsters and do all that kind of stuff. And be called at four in the morning to like shovel snow and you get time in a half, which was kind of cool. U That kind of like you just learned the blue collar way about how these guys that the full time guys, we had an apartment actually where we would all meet for lunch and we were kind of like hang out when it rained on campus and bodies are breaking down, you know They're working all the time because they're hourly and you know, family drama and it's just, I don't know It just puts in a lot of a lot of perspective how how lucky I've always been That's not lost on me. That's never, ever ever been lost on me. My dad was a fire fighter I don't have to I could do that, but I' be a fucking awful firefighter, I don't have to risk my life like that. And thats actually goes back to what we were saying is like people do things to make things better for the next generation and so on and so forth that's why I'm trying to give a good life to Rush. and trouble, of course All right Let's see Chart of Odium wrote into the column, you' often refer to as Cbra C commander. If if that's case, who would that make Chris and Dustin in Cobra? I'd like you guys to tell me out there because there are a lot of good options Um There are cool options. I don't know if do you want cool options, like would Dustin be Stormhadow? Or would like they be dreadnos Like is Chris Torch? Dust and Bzzer I't know. I don't know I don't know, arere you guys just vipers They're just kind of anomymous. a transformer. They had crossover right Yeah, they do. We're going to talk about Hone T transformers a little later actually. want to be U soundwave Soundwave I always thought Soundwave was cool. I like how I had the tapes Yeah, he did. Yeahah. that's Tory was cool. Yeah. Dig was a big it sound like Coobra Sandway. Yeahah, they might make they do make those things kind of things sometimes where there would probably be a Kora Sandwave. I always like the name. I was never really a transansformers guy. Daggan's a big transrformers guy. What do they call G one or white the metal transformers Oh That was his shit I always likek the name Starscream. I always thought that was the fucking dopest name. I'm like what a great name This's a good name. Yeah Um So I don't know. I want you guys out there to tell me because I think there are a lot of options. and we got to really verify, do we want a cool option for them or do we want to embarrass them you know, and make them into the shitty Cobra characters. So you guys tell me I don't know a single thing about Gijo at all. Yeah Yeah, I know. I uh I was thinking too like GI Joe, you guys could be GI Joe as a good guys as well. And that would actuallyick maybe even a little easier. Yeah, For me I don't want to be everyone, you know, well, not everyone. Cg started calling me Cra Commander, which is where that comes from I Cobra Commander is great. I've never been a huge fan of Cobra Commander Like he's not my guy. I like like a bunch of the more rank and file dudes, I think are more interesting Mal head as I always say, that's my And that's the dude that I would dress up as If I'd I said before, I like I would if I've went to Joe Fest in, which is every year in Georgia And I had dressed up as men and I went to dressed up as I would pay someone in like, you know, one of these like very professional cosplay designers to make me a metal headad costume be fucking sick. Be he has a little beard and gootif, so I can just shave this stuff off. And then he wears missiles all over his body. That's like this whole thing And here it' save And he puts like a goggle in front of his face and he says Bang That's twenty, and then That is This is such a crazy What an insane design. Oh, you look them up Yeah middle head He's got like a Some of the action figures make it look like fucking Billy Mazays in he' a crazy suit. Yeah Yeah he. I loved that character as a kid just because, you know, I got the toy. and the new one. I don't know if if you search for it and saw the new one, like the new one is so cool. actually Now I did to new Yeah I have him right here. He doesn't have his missiles in, but like there there he is siddle headad. Oh yeah, at. wow, that's crazy. it's cool like that all the missiles like on his legs Yeah and I he's got like the shoulder mountthed missiles. So you can see a boy, a little boy loving that toy. Oh, one hundred percent, yeah. And he's a doofus. as well in the in the c in the cartoon and in the comics. So phone You guys tell me, Sarter vodium, than you for writing And finally Bernard wrote and said, Hey easy. I'm writing in response to an inquiry from Tommy Bacon last week I too suffer through living with a woman obsessed with letting a natural light I love her dearly, but my God, nothing poisons a gaming session like suunlight. I totally agree. However, I've been able to strike a compromise with her Anytime I'm home and ready to game I can shut the blackout curtains, but she is then allowed to poison our air with the stench of the only thing women love more than natural light, burning candles I suffer through each gaming session not knowing what smell is real and what is pumpkin sppice Fall morning, but Hey, at least I can see the screen Tommy if you're listening, perhaps it's time you struck a bargain of your own. Yeah, it's all about bargaining What can you guys do for each other Um I really like this letter, Luke, you're setting the right cadence. You're setting the right example For young Grace and Leo were listening to the show by no choice of their own All right, it's time for us to finally talk about things Let's get into it It wasn't really a hack But here's what happened For people that are unaware, we'll set the stage and then we'll talk about Every surrounding it. Uh, Monday Good afternoon, Eastern. Dustin and I were streaming as we usually do on YouTube. And we were streaming ironically Pragmata, which is a game about hacking. So I do wonder if there was a sense of a real sense of irony there. I wonder if there Would hope so Beause why would you wantan to squander a situation like that, you know? Yeah Um By the way, can you guys hear the noise coming outide outside my ass? No. Okay, good. 'cause like someone's using a saw outside and it's really loud. Oh, I hear it slightly, but it's fine No can hear it. it's gone now. It's gone now Um So we were playing and we were going and then we were just doing like super chats or whatever And at that point, I basically got booted out of my PSN account U My email got flooded. What is that called email bombing? Email bomb So I got like flooded with all of this stuff in my email, I supposed to distract from the real emails from Sony that I would be getting when this would be happening. So I got a bunch of emails from things I've never signed up for like Ali Express and stuff like that, easy enough to deal with to relegate to junk or whver and just block those email addresses. but At that point simultaneously, I got a text message saying that my two factor autentication was shut off on PlaySationeror Um and lo and behold, I lost My account PSN Now, to allay fears, I got it back three hours later, which is like by Sony and PlayStation standards lightightpeed. and U It's because of my connections to Sony, no doubt and I want to acknowledge and we'll acknledge that more U so my account was boosted from me And a lot of people were wondering like, well, how did this happen and why and all the rest? And the reality is is that it's a fairly complicated situation in a way. though there are simimple explanations as well Um I don't even really know where to begin. I have a whole list of things to talk about that I wrote down Um Where do we even begin? I'm Dustin where where do we start too add a little flavor to the situation U so Colin left the stream because he's like, I got to figure this out. So I had my Garth moment. where he's live on air by himself Oh no, I was fine. I was totally fine. So what was funny about that was I probably kept the stream going for another thirty minutes or so just finishing out the super chats and hanging out. We were having a great time U And if I'd like to go back and watch that stream, not only for when the moment when Colin got hacked but right towards the end There's a moment where I look down at my phone because I'm like, oh, I'm going to check to see if Colin said anything and I can update you guys And I look down and I've received a message on my PlayStation account from Long Island Viper that says You're next. U So at that moment, I was like, hmm All right guys, we're going to wrap up the stream now. Let's and I didn't say anything on the stream because like let's just, I'm going to wrap this up whatever. And so I very quickly tried to And at this point, we had no idea what was going on So it's like, do I change my change my password, makeake sure my two factor is good or whatever Um So Despite that threat, I've not been hacked I don't know if it's from lack of trying if they weren't able to get in through some of the means that we're going to detail here shortly on how this quote unquote hack works. this Morbgan of vulnerability in the system, I think, is a better way to put it. So But I think Co would be interesting. I think what the audience would most want to know is like Walk us through what happened after you got off hair because I know you detailed that in the tweet. like who were you calling Where did you have success? What? What did all that look like Yeah. so I was at my desk. I got off the stream and I'm like, all right This is a problem this is a problem Um I'll get into a little bit I This is so complex to talk about in a way because There are things I can't talk about not because Anyone really asked me not to talk about it because I think it is probably wisest. to protect certain people involved in this and make it easier to solve the problems. So What I will say is that someone warned me that this was going to happen U And a lot of people and I put that picture out actually from a Patreon DM that Dustin, you've seen this I've been talking to this person for a long time now about this shit I'm not going to say the nature of who this person is. Sony, in my conversations, we'll get on know everything I've talked about with Sony, but Sony, anything that I'm not going to tell you here, I've told Sony. Um The reason is is because we want to be helpful and we'll get into that. I just want to protect certain people's how they have access to this information and who they are and all the rest. I just think that and some people have requested that. So I ask people to kind of Ustand that has it's kind of not materially important to be honest But it gives us a lot of insight into things So number one is like I was like, all right, I' got to figure out like playaySation support So I Google PlayStation support and it's impossible to find number. like thank for we would make fun of Google AI, but it's like, thank God you just Google like, what is the fucking phone number? Becauseuse you go like go to Playtation se and it's like, oh, what are you having a problem with? And then you click all these things and it's like anything to not call a number, anything to just typical customer service, like anything to not call a number, anything to not talk to someone to not get resolution. and then the seconds and minutes are kind of ticking away where I'm like, we got to get on this because You know, the ultimate goal here is to sell the account. Um as we'll get into. And it's bizarre that that's even possible. to be perfectly honest with you. And I don't like in the moment but like that's just allowed to happen. And then's like, yeah, the accounts sold and we can't anything about it.'s like what do What are you talking about And that' that's going to be a lot of this conversation too is like, what do you mean? you don't know what to do? What do you mean? You can't do anything about it? What do you mean? this is final That's really where we're getting to. So I eventually find a number and call them It's an overseas callall center that I get in touch with, notot surprisingly, that's just typical American late capitalism don't want to pay anyone in our country to do anything. So we have to call Some Indonesian call center paying paying its people five dollars a day.'s wonderful. And they of course and they, of course are really passionate about their job. They definitely care Um, and They're really invested heavily in the client experience So I call this place up and to be fair, the guy I talk to is perfectly nice. and I say that in the tweet, He's perfectly nice. I know he's a low level dude. He can't do anything. Um But I tell them what's happening and We go on and on. they ask for like some verifying information. This is important. by the way, they're like They asked for like serial numbers of consoles you know, other other identy like basic identifying information U and they're basically like, all right, they gave me a at the end of the fifty minute conversation or whatever, they're like There's nothing we can really do for you Um, and We're going to put you in some sort of queue. We'll call you back or I think he believe I believe he said, we email or call back within a week Okay, so That is kind of like set Right? So that's like one angle of it. So I try to go like through the normal course of action. I try to explain to them by the way, and the guy goes away for about five or seven minutes when I do this to like go talk to his manager, presumably maybe he just put me on hold and pretended But I'm like, I'm like, I tried to reason with him and I think he understood. He was nice and I was like, I didn't get fished Because the one thing he said to me which was interesting, I'm like, doeses this happen a lot? And he's like, actually it kind of does with like People on Fortnite are two K gettingting like scanning QR codes and doing things and then they get their shit boosted U And I think he thought that was my a similar situation. And I'm like, I'm not trying to be a dickhead. I know this is not your fault. I'm trying to tell you that like, I'm a member of the media. I'm like a prominent Playsttation content creator and and was and I'm not asking for a special treatment because of that. What I'm trying to say is I'm explaining to you this is a different vector Th what you're you don what I think you think is happening. likeike I think you think when I tell you that I didn't click a bad link or I didn't get fish, I think you think I'm lying. You know, and I'm just telling you, and that's an important thing to say at the top is I always play up like I don't like technology, I don't know anything about technology. and I don't really know very much about technology, but I'm not stupid. I've been on the internet. for thirty three years. I've been on computers since the early nineties There are certain things I know And one of the things you know, especially in you know this century Don't click on links from weird places Don't put your password in field, you don't understand. Look for the little padlock examine Goo Gmail is really good about this. Like is this an authentic email? Look at where the emails come from? I always look at that shit. I don't think that in that in that respect I've ever gotten got. And there's nothing wrong with getting got that way. I gotten a different way as as we'll talk about. I wanted to be clear, I was trying to be clear to them like there are ways where it would be more your fault. and Even then you should be treated with care and respect as a customer But I was trying to explain that to them. I'm like, I really think you need to do more because like this is a pro like this So they went away and came back and he's like, we really he's like, we literally do not have the permission in the system From leaks, Sony apparently uses this system internal system called Parsec which they've made themselves. That's like a conduit to PSN Um, and he was saying that He went to talk to his manager and he's like, literally don't have the power to do anything because these things have all been changed too many times in recent like You know, like the emails have been changed, the FA has been shut off of all these things. so it's like we actually are locked out And I believe them. So he's like, you have to enter a queue. They have to do like an investigation Back in touch with you via phone or email and within a week So at that point, I'm like freaking out. I'm like, all right, like the jig is going to be up by a week. It's going to be over. Either they're going uck around my account, they'll get a band whatever, we' talk about that too. or they'll sell it or whatever So at that point, I am like, all right I got a use my connections. Like there's there's just no shame in it at this point So I do two things. I email a high ranking PR person that I've always been very friendly with who's always been very helpful to me. U whoo's been at Sony for since the nineties, I want to say And so I got conversation going with her and I won't say her name here. she doesn't like being, you know, being out front 'Cause remember she was we actually talked about her in a video, Dustin, and she was like, can you please Oh yeah,. Yeah, because because because then people are like They go to find these people, I think and you don't like see become a target. Right But I want to I thank her personally or whatever. I even told her on the phone. I'm like I'm gonna to send you like an arrangement or something. like you've been so incredibly helpful. Like what do people send like baskets of like fruit and like, you know, nuts and jams and shit, you know, Something nice for her because she was really, really helpful Um So I got I emailed her and with an email urgent, My account got hacked I also call Greg Miller my mind goes to like, all right Who do I know and what can I do I thought about all my connections to the first party. Now that's important in a minute But I was like, all right, I can get in touch with this person who I know can help me at Sony and get things moving. High ranking person knows everyone Who knows everyone though Like in my experience, like who is the mayor of the games industry and it's Greg And it goes all the way back to the beginning of his time in journalism, but certainly when he did up at noon And he would always have people. He just knows everybody. and I knew he would know someone So call him, he's recording. so he text me back and he's like I can't talk right now F of, I must have been like, why the fuck is You know, like what what is this So He's like, all right, what is the what is the email attached to the account, wherever? And he send his shit over to like, his connection. I have no idea who he talked to So that's where things sit The person I reach out to at Sony, then calls me and Beause she has my number, but I was like call me at this number and she was like, is this really you which I really respect and appreciate, you know Because like I could have been compromised and I'm like, yeah, and I told her things that only we would know or whatever, right And she's like, okay, pllus, we can recognize each other's voices So she like Get some information for me. We talk on the phone for a little while. accelerates it towards internal PR that can get in touch with like people in Sama like engineering fraud and all that kind of shit So that's like one tether that's going. That's the tether that ultimately solved my problem and it does it quickly. But that's going. I don't know who Greg reached out to and it might have worked, but I don't know where that tether ends up So that's kind of like not a dead end. Greg did what he could. I don't really know. I promised that I would say also about the first parties. So the funny thing about this is I'm getting text messages from people in the industry as if I d like someone died Which I really respect and appreciate being like, I can't believe this happened,. o Oh my Godd, I'm so sorry People from multiple first party studios that I'm friendly with and it's notoy at dog, and it's not Neil so I to bear about that. although would have been awome. I was' gonna bother Ne with this. I that was kind of a break glass in case of emergency thing where I'm like I guess I can get really in touch with like certain people if I really want to be like, please, like it's very urgent Neil stop directing intgalactic, I need you to get me my PSN account back But a couple of people at different studios reach out to me, including one person at a studio that Sony owns that's very high ranking. And he and he was like, I've forwarded this to SIE like we're going to get this solved All right, so that's like where things sit. This is all within like an hour. Now, here's where things get dicey Hm I got a phone call from the number from the Sony number I answ it. It's a dude on the other end. seemeems like again, like Vaguely ethnic, not American Um, And he starts being he's like, all right, I'm following up on our call. that you had earlier in the day. Now to me, this didn't seem untoward because I'm like, okay. They said it was going to take a week. someomeone got in people's ear, blah blah up the chain This is a problem for someone that of some level of prominence It seems like it's not the usual course of how people get their accounts boosted Maybe we can help them. So it wasn't unusual for me. I was like, oh, they're actually like this is all working. betweenetween all the first party people talking, Greg's contact, the PR person talking, like upping it to fraud and engineering and everything. Things are moving so I was like, okay, so I talk to this guy He doesn't really he doesn't really give me any information. He tells me it's going to take. he's like, all right, well, we're settling. it's going take be about three weeks for us to like solve this problem as you enter the queue and This person asked me, he didn't ask me any serious like super serious questions, but he asked me certain questions. He was like, well, what is the original email account on the, um He actually asked me a lot of I should be clear. he asked me a lot of similar questions that they had just asked me So it's like what is the bark like what are the serial numbers on a couple of your consoles? Like what's the original email address? whereere was it made? L that kind of thing? And I gave that information to him But nothing like credit card information or anything like that, like anything truly identifiable. And then the connection. So I tweet about that the connection Dustsin and I have been corresponding with or Ive been corresponding with and Dustin under Dustson's Purview for months reaches out to me and says, you just talked to the hacker And I'm like, what And I call so I call this guy and he's like, dude, they spoof the number They he's like, they're not even really interested in your information. They're trying to create trust And then they'll call you back again later, but like he's like, you just talked to the hacker. Like you didn't talk. to Sony And I'm like, but it's from the number and like the guy knew the question. He's like, ye Yeahah, these guys are professionals. at this. Um So at that point, I get pretty freaked out because I'm like, wait a minute He's like And he was right, and I should have known this He's like, didnn't they give you a reference number? And I'm like, yes, he's like, anyone calls you ask for the reference number So it was like, fuck So I gave this guy some identifiable information, Nothing too crazy, like my email address. I think you could find that where I live, my birthday But the thing the one thing that I gave this guy that I'm and we'll talk about this a little bit later is the serial codes from two of my consoles. Now, I've probably connected my PSN literally to Eespecially when I was in media and we had a bunch of consoles, probably fifty plus consoles. but those are on there. So I was like, fuck So this is all going About an hour later, I got another phone call This one is from A California number I answer it, it's an American guy American accent talalking to him What's funny here is ultimately, this guy ends up being a very helpful person a managerial level person in Um likeike I guess like like PSN management or whatever And it's funny because I'm like, all right, dude, he's like, I'm calling you tell about with your situation And I'm like, okay, I just, I think got tricked by someone who spoofed your number. So can you give me the the the reference number. and he was like And at first he's like, yeah and he's tying I'm like, a fuck I'm like getting got again. And's like, yeah got here. And he says it And I'm like, So we're good This guy whose name I will not use as well is the second person, the other person I talked to with Sony, who is extremely helpful. friendly, ask the right questions and seem to know what was going on now This person had what seemed to me to be bespoke high level access to PSN. the person I was talking to now He shut the account down. So he basically was like, I'm locking everyone out of the account for now. So he just like did whatever. It's like it's a joke in a lot of movies, but I always think of meet the parents in the airport where like the woman is just typing the entire time Yeah And it's like whaty could you posibly be typing? Is that kind of thing? he's typing notes doing his thing? So extremely friendly, extremely helpful, locks the account down At this point, I start getting phone calls from that Sony one eight hundred number again Because the dude realizes they're getting bounced out the account and They are used to people getting bounced out of the account because they set dead manan switches, which I'm going to get into in a minute don't usually lose them this quickly So I think at that point they were they weren't really prepared to or he or whatever, wasn't really prepared to lose the account So they start calling me and leaving me voicemails. being like we're calling the help or whatever, thenen I got a text message. saying I'll give you the account back I never responded to the sext message. Um So they lock the person out And they change some settings behind the scenes and I get my account back. It actually takes a couple hours. So there was like a moment of like letting steam out of the pot I was trying to explain this and I think I said this to usin actually is like, I'd much rather the account be in no one's hands Like, so like once so once I knew that they didn't have access to the account, they couldn't fuck with it anymore. My stress level went down significantly because I'm like, all right, 'd I'd rather just lose it forever than someone else have it But at least like at least it's like locked out And then the guysy like because they changed so much shit, It might take like a few hours for everything to work through because we've put your new email address on there. likeike I have a bunch of other email address so I just like, are you use this email address stuff. and They're like, okay and the st wasn't going through L I wasn' getting email. they're like get in touch us in a couple hours Let's, let's let it straight out a little. Um, because it's probably catching up ends up not working, so I get back in touch with the guy again, very friendly, very helpful. He's like, all right, I'll try again. He does it I get the email to this other address and boom, I click the link and I have access to the accounting again and it's over. Um I then so I brought up earlier deadman, a deead manan switch Here's what these guys do when they steal PSN accounts is they access to they know different people and have access to different accounts. And also they'll do this to random people. They'll start sending inappropriate like racial epithets or like other things that get you banned of permanently on Playation netwk But they won't do anything with them they lose if they lose the account and aren't able to sell it, they then start reporting those DMs And PlayStation network shuts your shit down automatically if you use like you know, an inappropate word or whatever until someone can look at And so right after I got my account back I was I went on PSN and I was permanently banned So And it said, like your account is permanent like when you log in your account is permanent banned So I I knew this was going to happen and I get back with a guy and he's like, yeah right. like I think he like I could sense from him that he understood what was happening, that they've dealt with this before and he was I don't wantan to get into the things we were talking about on phone, I want to respect that I will say that like when I said like I suspect I'm going to get banned because they do this dead manan switch side of thing he sighed That's like something I remember about it because he's like he knew You know? And so he's like, all right He unbamed quickly and he's like, you're not like he's like there. This is all fixed. U My account basically has like flags on it now and apparently like nothing what I was told is like nothing can happen to my account unless like a manager level person overrides like all the lock, like a lot, like so in other words, like even if you call the call center, like they But even their managers shouldn't be able to mess with it at this point Um And I was especially nervous about that because like my conso, I don't know if he was recording me or writing things down or just like playing a confidence game, but like having given him the console serial numbers, I'm like these could be identifiable U, and sufficient. People have gotten back into their PSN account with those numbers. So I needed to make sure that things were like locked down, especially because I was tricked by this spoofed number U So the guy was like very helpful and he was just like, yeah, like everything' fine now. He's like, if there any other problems, reach out to me directly. hereere's my information. So I have like these direct teters already to Sony, people in the first party plus now I have this other guy, a new friend of mine that I made that I'm also going to send a jam arrangement to probably at some point in San Mateo U Jam and hies trrackers whatever you send people Maybe I shouldnd him like a beautiful roseose bouet Y'. And he wass like, so I have these connections. So suddenly I'm like, all right, I have these bespoke sort of Solutions and everything's fine The problem is that this is not fine for almost anyone else. When people say like most people don't have these connections or these advantages, I would say like almost no one has them. And I'm not saying it's because I'm special. I'm saying like how many people could really like what are there? like a few like a few hundred people in games media in the YouTube space, whatever, like in the entire world that could really like run things up the flagpole at Sony and get things done. If I was a normal person My account would have been lost to the wind. I probably I would maybe be able to get it back eventually, but it would have been totally compromised. They would have either fucked with the trophies or whatever they would have done or stolen you know used your credit card. There's a million different things you can do. and Again, not wanting to reveal This is where I think you come back in Dustin because One of the interesting facets of this and this is one of the things I was explaining to Sony, And my conversations with them is like O audience started activating in a really interesting way I don't know if we want to use individual names of people in the aience, right? I don't know they've public about this, but there are IT and opSEC people O some repute Let's say in audience that started going after this stuff for us. We didn't ask them to. I haven't even personally communicated with these people. I know they've been communicating with Micah and Dustin and others and They've discovered enormous amounts of information Um I am not going to get into a lot of that stuff here I assure you that everything that we and I have learned about this has been and will continue to be forwarded to Sony. Um Because again, and this is what I was saying to them on the phone my one connection there Um that I've known for a long time where I'm like, I know we've had We have a little, you know, I've always had a friendly report with her. it's nothing like that. But I'm like, you know sometimes hate a game or sometimes we have a tough interview or sometimes We don't see eye to eye and, you know We get a little cross or whatever over the years. it's like I want you to know, I want to be helpful and useful I'm not coming after you guys. I don't want any problems with you guys. I'm not trying to be a dickhead. I think you guys have a massive problem on your hands. and that's what we're going to get into because of all the things we've learned So here's the thing. hereere's what happened And I guess this is an important thing too. All a person needs to get into your PSN account. is your email address a Mundane piece of information like the day you bought a game and a susceptible or understanding customer service rep in one of these overseas centers That's it I want to reiterate that. Your email address Something like when you bought a game a transaction or some other easily identifiable piece of information. And they'll give you access some's PS account I b in here call. Please U This is not something that we know in theory Colin was mentioning some of the people that have been looking into us, some of our audience members and people that I know and trust U have information of a person that was able to Qote unquote successfully hack. or get into not only their own account. with this information, but also a family member's account that of course gave consent to do it Uh, So two successful attempts that they were able to get in force their way into account via This method So it is not a theory, this is possible and we know it firsthand. Yeah, and I told Sony that And becausecause I know what you're talking about and who you're saying. And I'm like yes, So like there like it's happening now Um, and Here's the thing that I think people don't understand because everyone has an opinion on this, which I appreciate. and some of and I appreciate people's feedback, but it's like, oh, set up two factor authentication, G a pass key Uh and I'm like doesn't I don't think you understand. Your password doesn't even matter I want to reiterate that. like your password Do doesnn't matter Your two factor authentication doesn't matter. Your passkey. doesnn't matter in these situations. they will override it on their end and you they will give access to something within with So this is the big thing I want to tell people out there And this is the crazy thing and this is what fucking sucks about modernity and the modern internet as it stands Eail addresses were meant to be shared They are meant to be shared. There are ways to correspond with each other They aren't these bespoke things that should be hidden away and hashtagged. as a way to get in, it's nonsense. And yet If you know the email address attached to a PSN name As Dustinger said becausecause someone in our art community did it twice yesterday You can wedge your way into almost anything on the PSN And that is a Crazy crazy level of insecurity. for individual PlayStation accounts Ironically keepeeping your email address in this fashion and know like what's going on here Keeping your email address secret is the most important thing you can do Without the email address, it is presumed that you really can't proceed. So I want to reiterate Your password doesn't matter. In this situation, your two factor authentication does not matter and your pass key does not matter Now, I can't speak to the Paskey thing specifically because I didn't have a Paskey. I had to have factor authentication But why would it be any different with that A distinction too, Colin is that this was not email to factor, this was text. Right, exactly, right exactly. That's exactly right Now We're going to get into like, what I think the solution and we can all get into like, what we think the solutions are to this. There has to be solutions to get people into their accounts. No doubt It can't be this And this has to stop Now, one of the things I was going to say at the top and I want to say now is I have a deep level of contrition about this This is a problem that's been going on behind the scenes for years. And you hear about it and drips and drabs and It really goes back to the PS three era. In fact, the more I was thinking about it, the more I was like being itched in my head of like There was a time where people were suggesting like change your email addresses. on PSN. because people were getting in during the PS three era. And then eventually, I was like, I think eventually people assumed that that problem was fixed. and so people went back to like the convenience of having things on an email address. like you would use your email address instead of keeping it secret Like it's a weird thing I'm sorry. I I um overwhelmed by the amount of things people say and send me on a weekly, I mean, doesn't know People send me so much shit. Look into this. What is this? What's going? And I can't keep up with nearly all of it And this is something that has been brought to my attention over the years. And we reported on it and we talked about it But I was generally overwhelmed and disinterested And I could have been helpful before it affected me I wasn't And I'm sorry and I responsible for the things that are happening, obviously But perhaps I could have pushed er for a resolution instead of it classically affecting me and then me getting involved. And I understand the irony of that and you're right I mean you're I got kicked in the fucking head then I suddenly was worried about the boot And I mean, I just want to throw that out there that like People saying people tried to tell you, you're right But you have I hope you understand from my perspective, to be fair to myself that People try to tell me a lot of things So it's it's you know what I mean? I'm not like am I you trying to be funny in the sense like people say a lot of things And a lot of it is nonsense And a lot of it is uninteresting and a lot, but like I knew that this was a problem. I knew this was happening to people. I just didn't realize I guess I just didn't compute partart of the pun, how Cically simple it is. People are like, all right, so they had your email address, what else did they use? And it's like, well, what people think and this is where like Mike can tell you I got really upset. about this because I saw I was like first of all, I've slept like ten hours in the last like three d But also because I've been like obsessed with like trying to figure this out, you know, and like learning about it and writing about it and talking to people on the phone and emailing and corresponding Um What it seems like they might have done Let me back up Sammy from Push Square our friendriend reached out to me. and by the way, thank you to the outlets that covered this Sish square Kaku. People were really harsh like Kaku because they didn't use my name in the headline, I'm like The headline is prominent PlayStation podcast was like like C caller wes like guys,' fine. It's like we don't have be mad at a talko of everything. A few others have written Insider Gameerote about it and I appreciate that Um But Sammy had alerted me to like he's like, did you ever tweet out And anytim a transaction number And I'm like Probably At some point in Going back to Vita and PS three People who do all the time ever take a screenshot your email or take a screenshot of and just put it because it's like who gives a sh Like really like who cares Like really think about that Bike Who cares? about like when you bought a game or anything like that. So I was thinking like, yeah, I probably put up some thing and then people had started sending, I guess to Michael like, no, it's these things. And a couple of times in arguments, I posted like credit card statements PlayStation purchases to be like, no, I buy my own games And Mikea it was telling me like, oh, these things exist. And I'm like, o, okay I think I know you'reking about. And I was kind of going on I' like I'll get to that Maybe we should delete those at some point whate and I kind of just forgot about it. and then she's like, did you look at these yet? I'm like, No, let me see se like, what are you talking? And I had this vision in my mind of like these statements with all this information on it and And she showed me, She's like, this is what people think the vector was in And it was a list of dates and prices And I was like, are she I was like, are you fuck? I was like not at her, but I was like, are you Because in my mind, I'm like, oh, I must have left like some number, some Somet on here and I'm like, what This is it This is the kind of shit you find on a Walmart receipt You know, like like And what I was saying to her was I was like, this is a kid this is literally a kin I was like, you know when you go on like the ten items or less al lign and some's like, I'm buing little of something. And they're like,kay, here's yourachine.'s, you can Yeah. thank you. How many times have you seen that happen? right? You go to a restaurant. Everyone leaves their fucking receipts. signigned all sorts of information on it And those are irrelevant because and everyone knows it. you can go into target and find a target receipt. It's going to have everything it's going to have the person's name, the last four digits of the credit card number. It might even have like your target ID for likeah, like all the stuff. and I under these conditions, I should be able to call target. com to get access to your target credit card Here's the last four digits of the number, email address, and I just bought these things recently You go to a restaurant and you and you could start just like If you needed a pattern And you have when you're like a waiter at a restaurant and people leave their receipts behind, you just take a few of those and then call Visa one day and be like, yeah U the last four digits of the number is this and actually you could even theoretically have the whole number because you work there and then say like, yeah and this, this and this and I want to end the card Like that would be how easy it was I think there's like so I was actually infuriated when I saw that because I thought that I like actually had some identifiable information And I'm like, dude Prices and dates of purchases, you could figure that out by looking at someone's trophies Do you understand that? Like you don't even need the receipt Like, you can go and say like, oh, did this person play Resident Evil Requiem the day came out? They must have bought it. And then you say, yeah, I bought whereable requi on this state And here's my email address. and they give you access the account So I feel like there's a lot of victim blaming going on with not only this, but with other people that have done it as well. where I'm like, completely refuse to believe that a series of a ledger that shows dates and prices should be everyone's like, why would you ever publish that I might comp be. What? It it's insane that that would be considered private information. Like Ch again, Chris, like, it's so funny because when Mike was telling me that I'm like, I'm fucking stuid I left some hash like some hashtag in there, like some number sequence like things. But even then that shouldn't be useful because you should be able you could find that anytime. But then I'm like, I'm not even sure it could have been those things. I could have bought a game on PSN when we were streaming I've I've It could be anything. And if it's the things that the people are saying it is, I'm like, so you got into my account withith my email address and transactions from three years ago Is anyone computing how insane this is? It's like why when you get credit card statements in the mail, like someone can boost your creditard statement, but they can't do anything with it. It'll have all of your information on it But like there's not enough But for this, it would be plenty You understand what I'm saying Does that make sense? So Should I have done that? In hindsight, I wish I didn't Do I know that that was the vector by it? It probably was, but I don't know. Because I probably have posted a bunch of things It's impossible to know because who gives a shit? Like like that's the whole point. It's like and that is insanity to me That that's sufficient enough So email address plus trivial receipt information equals complete access So again, A lot of people are nervous about this and I was explaining this to Sony as well, my people are people talk about moving the steam. peopleeople are like taking their credit card information out. They don't trust you and It's a big Problem And I don't know why you don't it's a big problem that everyone is vulnerable, everyveryone is vulnerable to this It's It's and dealing like and learning what R IT and you know, infoc guys have learned about the situation in just a couple of days, it made it pretty clear to me that people can find pretty much anything about you that they want, period So You need to do so much better Now people were asking like, what do I think the solution is if You lose access to your account. I'm like, well, there's multiple First of all And to I w want to reiterate this, even the most blunderous person that lost their account by fumbling like a fucking clown and clicking on QR, you know, using QR, codes and clicking on bad links and all this kind stuff. they should have a right to get their account back. So too should the person that had their account stolen like I did really through no fault of my own The first thing is just to say like You Even if it's sufficient to give certain information, why would that override two factor authentication Yeah, it's Like so in other words, I've chained, I've been on the phone. with x, Z where it's like oh, I need to change something. I'm like, all right, you're going get a code to your ph You know, like that kind of thing So like Why would that circumfvent that? That's my biggest question. So that's number one is like Okay, change things But you don't even ask for the person's password. Now I'm not sure that that should be being talked about they might it might be hashed on their end anyway But like you're just skipping all of these steps. Like your password could literally be quirdty And it's like, well, it doesn't matter or you can have like the most If Google can choose the most hashtaged bullshit password you've ever seen in your life, then only a quantum computer can break. It doesn't matter It's nuts Um People are saying that, and I'm like, you could also do something God forbid. I mean, this would be hard but maybe you do something hard is to say like, okay We need like a notarized affidavit and like your email hereere's a mailing address seend us This, this, this and this Please give us two to four weeks Please note, in the meantime, will we will shut down this account so no one has access to it Why can't you just do something like that Why Like it's just so strange. but it doesn't into this like the moneyable money. But I'm like this is where this is what's interesting. and this is the thing I tried to impress with Sony and they understand this I'm like, they are going after your most prominent highighest spending oldest customers You want to talk about money I wanted to put a few things in there about the targets of this That's all I was going to say There are three types of targets. There are people like me And by the way, there are like prominent Playstation or games industry people I've learned and I don't know if you've talked about this st us in behind the scenes too of People people would know that this has happened to where they've not said it publicly. I did hear that And um So it's not just me that this has happened to, by the way Um, And I'll tell you guys offline, but because I don't want to say people's business, but it's like that happened to that person But they kind of kept it quiet and it took them apparently months to fix the problem, which is crazy So there's, they go after three types of people. Like people like me, so like people that are prominent and easy targets. They go after people that are trophy hunters Both the number one and number two all time trophy leaders have both had their accounts Stolen and not give him back. I want to reiterate that People with the number one and number two most trophies. in the entire world, Both had their shit boosted And Sony didn't do anythingthing That's crazy. The third type is the most interesting type. These are the people that I've been talking to People with rare, low character names I know this sounds weird, but this is what people are after what like John Yeah or something. So people that were and this is what I was trying to explain to the PSN I'm like the people saing Im like, think loologically about this I vaguely remember that you could log in. I don't know if this is true or not but I vaguely remember that the dust, you might remember the summer before PS three came out, I think you could squat on your PSN name So Regardless, let's say it was november two thousand six when you really made your PSN name. I'm like, Th theseese are your people that were there so early and so enthusiastic that they got ABC They got ocean or rock Or like like just crazy names I'm like, do you understand that you had to have been there like this first second to get these names These are your people And you have let them you have left them out to dry. So these people get their names, their accounts stolen for multiple reasons They want the name and they want what would presumably be a digital games catalog going back to two thousand six So like potentially tens of thousands of dollars of games and No matter what group or style you fall into, you kind of experience a similar problem, which is Sony doesn't seem to give a shit. and at some point They are like, we can't help you anym because of the deadlock Exactly big part of that. Right. And I'm like, this is Unacceptable And that's why I want to say that I have two goals and this is what I said on Twitter There's a whole there's a whole thing of like, who did it I was using this reference with people I was talking to at Sony where I'm like And other people I was having meetings with other people too, where it was like Do you guys know about the whole Kiaa thing about how Kas are easy to boost Do guys know anything about this? Yeah, yeah. A little bit our vo Yeah.ight, exactly Like there's something like Kiaas and I think hyai. Kia booys, That's it that wear like they're easyest to steal And I'm like, okay or they were, they probably fixed it by now But it's like, okay You can go after the people stealing the cars. and that's interesting and useful, and maybe you can do that But what you really have to do is make sure the car can't get stolen anymore And then you worry about everything else. I don't want to use a political example. It's just the only example I can think of is like, it's like immigration. If you want to if you have to stop the inflow. before you deal with what's here. Otherwise, you just have this roving sieve of water coming and going So It's I'm not even really sure where to go. It's like I just can't believe that peopleeople are left out to dry like this. And one of the major things. so back to what I was saying was I'm not even worried about who did it It's interesting Um Looking into that Sony on their side is certainly investigating things peopleople in our community have found a lot of interesting things based on the information we've given them as well But I have two goals The first is we have to convince Sony to stop this from happening the so called closing of the border in my Clumsy analogy Make sure that nothing Just stop this Right? Like you have to stop this You can't allow this to go on like this And then the second thing is reunifying people with their stolen accounts. because that's the thing that makes my heart so heavy because I felt it Mhm And my whole I was I was like laughing with Sony on the phone where I'm like, I know it sounds so lame, but like My whole life's kind of wrapped up in that account It's not a joke to me I've I've had PSN account since two thousand six Actually this particular countount since two thousand eight And when trophies came out and I started like earning trophies And I was saying this to people too is like, and we'll get into a little bit of this is like I want to be honest about all things and what I will say is that I didn't think once about my library. I know that that's like a rare thing like and people like, what are you talking about? that That's all that matters. I' I'm not going to play any of these games again I don't really give a shit I want to keep them I should own them forever as a license and I don't want to lose them It's nice to have them. I'll go back to some of them But what I was thinking about was like my trophies and my saves unique things about timestamps and experiences and where you are and all that and it sucks M And my heart is so heavy. I've talked extensively with people that have had their accounts stolen. how it happened. And I'm keeping these'sames private and some of them have been incredibly helpful. And I want to put some of these people in touch with Sony. as well But my second goal after they shut it down is to say like, can we get It's not Ken, it's like, let's get these people their accounts back because that's the thing that really bothers me So people maybe we should explain this to, is like, well what is the goal stealing accounts? It's like, sometimes it's the fuck with you But often it's to sell. And that's the fucking craziest part of all I mean, really think about that. That's what Mike and I were talk about this like, just think about this. An account is boosted from one of your customers sold on the black market to someone else who now logs into this account For years years Sony doesn't even shut it down They're just like, yeah, that's it's over now. That accounts that guy owns that account now I'mike, what are you fucking You have the controls in front of you Shut it down countdown getting at least kick the the the people out of it likeike what are you doing? What do you think you're doing These are your customers. How can you just throw them away like that? Because that's the thing that I was trying to impress on them too and I think that they do understand is like A person who has bought four games and has a thousand trophies might not give it too much of a shit They have they also haven't given you very much So like you let them loose fine You're gonna let the guy loose with twenty thousand tropies and ten thousand dollars worth of games or twenty or thirty thousand dollars worth of games. Who do you think you are? And then you'll point at something like the Yula and say like, well It says here. We can shut you down for any reason we want. We can remove the licenses for any reason we want. And this is that reason, I guess. And I'm like, no Absolutely not. I don't care what it says The Uula says that you can't have class action suits against them and yet. We just talk about a class action suit so only lost So certainly there's ways around that. It should never come anywhere close to that because this should be the thing that is the most secure And the one thing I also said was And I think we can all we can all say that, I mean, I've said They're selling a handheld PlayStation six that is digital only next generation. We've had things like the PSP Go, we've had things like PlayStation TV, but this is the first truly digital only Device You get it together and I am going to beat this drum likeike It is there is no other way around it. So stop this from happening. That's our first goal. We have to convince Sony and I'm working hard. I amm on the phone. I am making myself available I am using everything I can to say like, you got to do something about this And the second thing is, you gota unify the people who lost their accounts with their accounts The answer cannot be you lost your account through no fault of your own or you lost the account through phishing or whatever. Your account got stolen Too bad. Start again Goodbye to your games, goodbye to your trophies, goodbye to your Sves. Sorry We have to take the next call at our Indonesian call center Could you imagine would you imagine It's got to change M This is a fucking shit show So That's it. I mean, that's basically I think I'm looking at my notes. I don't think This is, in my opinion and maybe it's dramatic. the most important thing they have to do right now becausecause it is all about the security of the Plstation network. PlaySation netwk is already looked at frankly as a jo It always has been. byy the way, as we're going to talk about later, they're raising your prices again so they can maybe continue to pay people five dollars a day in Indonesia that don't give a fuck Now the other thing there are two other things that people wanted to know was like Who did it And And to me, I'm like, we I won't go into that Right likeike Again, I don't think it's that important actually. These people Boost Th people openly sell these accounts on places like Instagram and telegram They have open conversations about what they're doing, who they're targeting how they're doing it and The other question people were asking is because I said this in one of my things is like are people on the inside? And this is something that was asked in my conversations with Sony as well. likeike, why do you think this? And I'm like, I don't know, and I would suspect that it wasn't an insider involved in this But what I do know based on my research, if these things are real and I think they are is that there are definitely people on the inside that have leaked the interface, what it looks like, what you can see, there are screenshots and videos of it There are also people that steal accounts that claim that they have inside connections to Sony and that's how they get a lot of the shit Bottom line You can't have The keys to the castle in the hands of underpaid people in the Third worldorld that can be easily bribed If you're making this is what we talk about on Twitter, right The reason Twitter slop has gotten so bad internationally is because like when we look at Twitter and we're like, oh I can post a bunch and make three hundred dollars a month the shit. In India, threech dollars a month is an enormous amount of m And so they'll post all day for that money in USD Think about that and and it's like a guy in Indesia and they're like, we'll give you a hundred dollars We'll give you five hundred dollars becausecause they're selling these accounts for thousands of dollars There was even an ad that one of the guys put on Instagram openly saying like, I'm looking to hire an American speaking woman And I will pay a lot of money because they know they can spoof the numbers. They'll use that to call people Get the information. This is a sophisticated situation You gotta shut it down It's not going to be that hard. and big thing is like well, how help people get access their accounts I want to reiterate You have a right to get access to your account if you get locked out of it. It's got to be substantially more difficult to get access to it at some point. And as I'll just reiterate, it' it's got to have something to do with your ID and a notized affidavit like that kind of sh I'm not kidd Yeah Like if and it sucks that that happens and it sucks that you have to do that. but just like do it. just something where it's like let's see who you are and make sure it's someone in your home country So this is how and they As I understand also, they target mostly American accounts because our laws are so lax about data So in Europe, you have the right to ask PlayStation, as I understand, for any data they have on you Mmm. And we've talked about this before, right Chris about Yeahah how every once in a while, the over O what would you call it? the red tape capitalism of Europe occasionally comomes up with a nice old diamond One of them was the universal plug for everything Right? Like making Apple use USB. Right? Like that was That's Right suing App This is another one of those things where it's like, yeah, so they don't even go after European accounts because I think there's too many breadcrumbs Instead, it seems like they go after old American accounts And when they sell them, they brag about it. It'll say like American flag zero six name American Fag zero seven. name I'm crazy And I'm just telling you, soony's give a shit. Now And it's one of the things where it's like, I want to be clear about this. The people I'm talking to are wonderful and have nothing to do with this It is a story about where the buck stops, as we often talk about on our show. And at some point, someone's got to say, we have to do something We have to do we have to do something and it goes back into my contrition and my apologies of being like I'm sorry it had to happen to someone of my quote unquote stature for me to get animated You'd think when Sony lost their two trophy most prolific trophy hunters and told them that they were shit out of luck What do you what do you fucking? Like that guy H whom that was like the major trophy hun that lost his account has theoretically bought almost every game I mean, think about that. Theyink about the amount of money that guy spent You should be groveling for that sort of fucking client You release these numbers saying like, oh my God, we made five hundred dollars on every customer during the PS four era. I'm like, I spent five hundred dollars a quarter A question, Colin about this that I was thinking and obviously we're not going to have any proof. and I don't know what you want to say specifically, but I find so disturbing this which there is many disturbing things, maybe not the most, but a disturbing thing is just that It's clear to me or it seems true. I don't know. I don't want to be speaking out of turn that Sony knowns about this problem. and has chosen not to do anything I don't know if it's a situation where they're like, well, The moment we acknowledge the problem, it becomes a story and it makes us look bad And So we're not, we're just going to continue to sweep these people under the rug U And if that's the case, I don't know if that's the case That fucking sucks. and you're exactly right, Colin, that this is something we were discussing on my stream last night, it's like, I wouldn't Wish this on anybody And I particularly wouldn't wish it on one of my friends, you But in this case you're kind of the best person for this to happen to. to to hopefully enact some kind of change because If again, I'm using a lot of ifs. if it's the case that Sony knew And was like, okay, well, we know this's a problem, but we don't want the bad the bad PR from it. Let's just sweep it under the ru. Now they cannot ignore this There are others that have written about it. like there's a French journalist who had this happened to him. D did you read that story that was going around? Like because like it happened to him last year, I think. The shitty thing is that it happened to him around Christmas and so he had no Recourse For like a long time and It's happened to other like You're right, like I understand that I am ultimately powerless Like Sony can just as has happened in the past, just cut me off Stop talking to me. and move on I am fairly I don't think that's going to happen and I am fairly insistent that I'm not letting this go I don't know how much power I have to fix anything I want I wasaking Mike I didn't understand because she's never seen Schindler'sist.'m like, I'm going gonna be like Schindiller I'm have this little list of like of four character PSN names. and I'm going go around and try to like, you know, like I want to I want to be useful. and Those who criticize me and say like you didn't care until it happened to you, you're right. And now the second best thing I can do show my character since the first best thing to do, which was to have been done something try to do something about it before it had happened to me. was the set now that my best my best choice is to stick with it. And and I'm going to the pressure has to come from all of us though, and respectfully none of this nonsense. press the iss As ask the websites you read, can you write about this? Ask your podcast, the p podcast hosts or the YouTubers, or the streamers, like let's start getting this going. Let's make it if we can into something that can no longer be ignored Um, things that can And this is one of the things I had said is like I understand that these are the kinds these are the kinds of things like I don't want to have I don't want anything to say to have ramifications on your business. And I don't think it ulimately, But but these are kinds of things that like should Bloomberg write about it. that could hurt your stock Um By the way, the PSN's radically insecure. It hits a little different when it comes from The Washington Post or The New York Times or Wh whatever. and it's like Let's not let it get to that point. Let's just nip this in the bud. You know you have to do this. and you know you have to do this, especially in preparation for PlayStation sixix. And if you think I won't beating this fucking drum If it's not fixed leading in the Playsttation six. where they're going to be asking you by the millions and tens of millions to invest in a handheld that will have no disk drive It's not happening Like this is going to like It's got to be done And if it means that it's just way harder to get back into your account and there are different protocols But that's the thing that blows my mind is that like a person's account can be stolen from under them Sony will eventually tell you that they can't help you anymore, even though they absolutely can They just don't want to Then that account will be sold to someone and someone with complete impunity will play with that account and nothing will happen How can that fucking be How can this be? How can this be You have you're in charge, Sony You're in charge. Now, I want to say two other things and I wrote this on my nose because I should have said to fair at the top, I'll say at the bott Valves Steam accounts get stolen Nintendo accounts get stolen Xbx accounts get sten It happens as I understand, way differently and weigh more seldom And it's often easier to reverse those problems that those places too. So I don't want to make it seem like only PSN accounts get hack. Everyone has a problem in some way But this is a unique problem in itss ease and how it's done and then how impossible it is to get it undone That's unique to Sony The second thing that I want to say is there are and this is one of the things that I think I was over reliant on when we talked about it earlier is that obviously there are bad actors There are people that lie about their accounts. There are people that do things that they should have gotten banned for. There are people that you know what I mean? I'm not trying to speak to those people. When I'm say and I know that those people also use the rules and leverage of this libertarian utopia that they've made on PSN apparently where you can do whatever the fuck you It's like I know that those people exist. That's not what I'm talking about and that's not most people Most people are honest brokers that simply want to rely on what they're buying on the PSN and their access to all of that in time and Memorial And I've said in the past that I believe PSN will exist in decades from now and I do believe that The question is is your account going exist And the hope is is that, yeah, I hope so I want to Again, two steps. stop this from happening. Let's let's Fix this with your customers that you've lost. fix it fix it, you can fix it. I know you can fix it I know that there is no such thing as a truly permanent ban I know that there is no such thing as like I was saying to the mike, I'm like, what they're basically saying to people is akin to like The computer tells me I just can't do anything else. I'm sorry It's a w Fuck do you mean like it's all there. You just chang my email address. I'm pretty sure and shut off my two factor authentication. I'm fairly sure you can unban this person I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty certain so annoying. It's it's sorry, you know it Imagine imagine there really was no way If there if there really was no way, what kind of system is that? You've built a system where it's just like, oh, well, you're banned and there's like literally nothing you could do.'s That's insane. Yeah It's like, Oh, yeah, that'm sorry. you would build a system. You would never build a system like that ever's it's If you believe the leaks of the Parsec system that they use or whatever to deal with PSN account n names But banning is literally a series of checkboxes. Have you guys seen this before where it's like one box is like It's like temporary band with like a time under it. The next box is like permanent ban The next box is like green, like clear or whatever. and it's like, just click the box Right. Just click the fucking box What are we doing? And by the way, I don't know this for sure, but I believe that you can even do more. Like I believe that like you can take trophies away. I believe that like if someone because that's one of the things too is like As I said, one of the one of the things they do too to get if they don't like you to get your account banned is they'll buy a shit ton of like cheap games and then get a shit ton of platinum trophies This is annoying to people like me, obviously, but it also tells the system that you're cheating And and it bans your account for that. And I'm like so like, oh, so my account got ban I got my account got stolen through no fault of my own. they spoofed trophies. It convced to b the tphy and' like yeah,'s I' sorry we can't you any I'm like, but I'm the victim of the in that situation.m like you're What do you mean Like what are you talking about? It's It's on it is an unthinkable situation to put your your user base in and I'm It's a tale to s it's two tailes, right? It's like really people at the individuals of Sony have always been great. and they are very helpful and they've been incredibly kind to me. They've asked all the right questions, they've taken notes, they've They've started looking at all like all that stuff is great. But but at the same time, like certainly someone at Sony has to be responsible and is like we're going to do something about this. And I wonder when that's going to happen and we have to bring pressure to make it happen so that No one understands more than me what just happened and how lucky I was Because if I was a normal person That account would be gone. And I might get it back in the future, but it's going to be heavily compromised and all the rest So Thats. I mean,'s why I. You guys have anything else want to throw in Here's a question. Um Obviously you mentioned like putting keeping the pressure on asking people to write about this, YouTubers to cover it stuff like that. But shouldh PlayStation users take any action with their accounts For example, I mean, I'm in a different space because I was directly threatened by the hacker I immediately removed all of my payment options from PlayStation Um, And what's interesting is that everyone on not everyone, but Other people in our staff have all done that. And I've even seen users or like our listeners be like, yeah, I went and removed all my payment options from the PlayStation network. And it's like It's hard because it's like everyone is at risk, but not everyone is a target But at the same time, it's like Does Sony have data? It's like, oh, suddenly like people are removing their the likelihood of them making a purchase is much less because they can't impulse purchase something. Right. Like should I go by Playsttation cards, like gift cards to make my purchases until I know that I'm safe because like, I'm technically not safe right now Nothing's happened. right. But there is no guarantee that something could happen to me, especially as we're bringing more light to it. like I understand this's a possibility U at the very least though, they're not going to get the ability to buy a bunch of shit on my account Right. like the I think people's worries I don't want to say what people should be worried about I don't think the credit card stuff is even that important because for two reasons, in my opinion One is they can't see it So like, if you go into the PSN and look at it, you can see the last four digits, which you can see on a fucking receipt. This is what I was sayinglier, right? So yeah. And the second thing is is that you can just charge that stuff back If like worst came to worse, like there's no way like that a visa or a messord. then that now charging back gets your PSN account banned too. But apparently those can be undone. There's like a whole, even Sony has like a website about how to get that ban undone if you've had a charge back in the past Um So yeah, that's something worth worrying about and thinking about bigigger question is literally just losing access to everything you already have And you were asking, like, what can people do? It's As I said earlier Because this isn't really hacking Obviously, your password and your twoFA matter in that regard, but that's not the vector With what we're doing here The reality is is changing your email address into something that is not used anywhere else like a literally one off email address. onlynly for your PSN is frankly probably the best way to secure your account from this rom social engineering aspect, your password doesn't matter and your two factor authentation doesn'tatter So Ses and People were like, o I enjoined people reading people. they must have got access to your email. They must have like, I'm thinking you're way overthinking this dude I'm just telling you're way overthinking it First of all, if you've access to my email, I would assume you would have much more interest the email than the PSN account Um So no, nothing like It is what it is. It's It's got to be fixed and it is a It is an awful situation and I feel bad. There was one, it's funny too, like there is one wrinkle that there are few wrinkles. We'll get into these later maybe I don't know, I wanted to thank everyone for like their kind words. Some people like, oh, I wish you lost your account forever likeike they wanted to see me suff But most people were, Really kind And I thought it was funny that some people were messaging with the u with the hacker on PSN So I u There are a few things to say about this. One is Be careful, like I appreciate you guys coming to bat for me, but some people have said things inappropriate things to this guy where I think they got in trouble Like where if you go into the messages it says, like removed by PayStation support and all that kind of stuff. I saw one guy calls him the F word for instance. m like the F slur Right And u The second thing is is that there was one person who DMed with the The hacker in quotes Um, who was like asking if he can get my account banned or whatever and all the rest. And then we figured out who that person was He was a Patreon member And then I emailed him and he emailed me back this snarky thing Um And based on his I don't know who's involved and who isn't I really just don't know. But based on the nature of his conversation, like what he said to the guy and like and their back and forth and then what he said to me in the email, I'm like, I'm not entirely positive. you're in on this So Nonetheless. so instead of outing that person, I just I'm just going to be forwarding that information along And we'll see what happens with it.'t I don't know for sure, but I'm like, huh, I wonder Sadly, there are people amongst us that might have been involved in this or certainly we're cheerleading it U And so that's interesting as well Um I think that's it though. I, we have a bunch inquiries. I don't know many of these we can really even need to get through, but is there anything else want to say Chris I'm sorry I've beenking forever. You' have not spoken for y. No, I mean, it I wasn't compromised and I also You know, I just didn't experience it. I feel like you guys were really dealing with the brunt of it communicating and whatnot. So like I don't know if Ive ever really had anything To say other than dude, like, u This is I mean, you mentioned earlier about like some of the red tape in Europe that makes it difficult to go after those accounts. And it's just like, yeah, man, I mean, the red tape in Europe is not fun, but The flip side of it is that you get red tape as well You have some red tape as an individual over there in ways that you really don't overhear. And there's like, I don't know. I lament the Just the sheer amount of leeway. That is given to anybody or any corporate entity that just has enough money to just kind of be like,h we don't about customer or like whate It's not a big deal that like your biggest trophy hunters are gone and and like that's thats to me it is great. likeike that's new information to me. I didn't know any of that So like to me that like some of the bigger The top two accounts of the mostost trophies just lost it and they had no recourse. Despite the fact that they're obviously like some of the biggest customers and like, can you imagine doing that to them? Can you imagine doing that to them? Like can you imagine a world Chris and and where Sony's like, listen, guys Hakum, the biggest trophy hunter in the world, lost his account. Let's get someone on the phone with him and let's get this fixed. That's literally all it takes. Like that's literally all it takes Yeah, but there's no incentive to do that somehow because it's not like, oh, that well, whatever, it's not We our time is better spent. hiring five dollar an hour help in Indonesia, You know what I mean? It's like, it's like, I don't, man.'s just it's It's disappointing and it's one of the many reasons why I just feel like everything's just objectively worse now People people talk about like nostalgia poisoning whatever. It's like, I'm sure that's real but like it's just, this is way worse This is way shittier. bet it used to be. And u Yeah, I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm little disappoed that it got resolved so quickly because we could have had a hell of an episode today, Oh my go L the timing of it I feel like could have been It couldould have been better for content, you know what I mean? Like if it happened on a Wednesday? Yeah. yeah You know, you're right from that it from that perspective. I'm kind of like I'm glad you got it back, obviously. but like, yeah, it was the worst it was the worst few hours of my life That would have been That would have been such a bggar episode though You don't have Yeah. It would Oh my Godd We have some inquiries about that. We should get into some of these, I guess. Yeah, the first question iss perfect. Jordan Campus wrote in and said hello my suppple young lad This week is more of a comment than this week, I have more of a comment than a question, but can we take a moment of silence of what could have been the best series of content saker symbols could have ever produced on its own I'm glad to hear Colllan had his PS account restored within a very reasonable time period, but I'm also jolted as I imagine the content in my head. I see the amazing turn of events that could have inspired legendary levels of lore merch spinoff series and God knows what else. We could have had a fake funeral in Colin's backyard where he dressed rush up a suit and buried Colin' PSN account. We could have had Colin joined defining Duke for series of parody podcasts where he bends the kn need to Xbox or maybe Colllin becomes a PC gamer series Frankly, I would have just loved to see a live stream of Colen freaking out and trying every protocol possible to restores PSN. but above all I want to implore everyone, but mainly Colin that we are always here for you I've realized that I've never even really been a playaystt gamer I tune in into sacred symbol for my boy Colen and the great and amazing crew he has curated around him. Colen, I know we speak for many when I say we're here for the journey time and time time after time. We've seen you not only bounce back, but sore back after what could have been perceived as a downfall or setback. Remember that we your viewers enjoy every aspect of the show, the ups and the downs and the boring in between It would have just been another roller coaster, we would have enjoyed every second alongside you. G'm glad everything worked out but never forget you're more than your PSN account, and it's only one piece of what makes this whole thing what it is God spepeed I think this was a startling reminder. I'm just being honest with you guys, like a reminder of like, I am too wrapped up in this and In what way I felt like I was losing a piece of myself Like when I was like, when I was really thinking, I'm like, this might be it Like it would really might be over now for me And As far as like not as a human. I'm saying like Professionally, it's like This was the major thing. is like, how could I do How could I continue to do the show when the company like the We're not, we don't work for Sony Obviously, but it's like as a customer, it's like you're just going to throw me away So that's. Now they did the exact opposite, and I appreciate that But it's like that's where my head was. I was like, well What do I do I mean, like, what do I do? I've been covering Pay. I've been with Paysttation since the mid nineties. I've been covering it for twenty years. Um What do I do and is it really all wrapped up in this digital presence and your trophies and your games and all these things and And it's like Yeah And I try to kind of be honest with that about that knowing it comes off as a little corny to some people where I really have no shame about that. It's like, yeah, that is that this is my hobby. This is my job. this is my life. This is my my passion. this is what I've dedicated my whole life to. it's a horrifying situation to be in to see like, well, maybe that can just be taken away from you through no fault of your own through social engineering and a corporation that if I was just a more normal person probably wouldn't have given a fuck And I have to acknowledge and understand and accept that. And I appreciate like that people are pointing out and I know, I know And u Now to Jordan's point, it's like I appreciate your sentiment. don't think you realize the state I was in So And I am so glad it was solved so quickly just to Like that that that pit in my stomach kind of went away quickly, but like the stress of the situation, the interest in the situation, and this is the big thing and what I was saying to Mica was We can't back away It would be very easy for me to say like I got my account back moving on Like my account, they put a flag on my account. On managers can even mess with my account I've talked directly to like high ranking people at Sony. They know what's going on. We're good. That's not the play Right. It can't be the play We have to use this. And I have to be contrite enough to know that I could have done something before this So this is me. being grateful for my reality and trying to makeake it up and I really do. I like I know in talking to people, I know how much like It sounds set like people are like, dude, I've been I was depressed for a month When I like, you know, some guy that had his account stolen a four character account from the beginning of PSN He was like, dude, I'm mried, I have kid I was like in a complete funk. likeike I was totally depressed, like I got something stolen for me, someone else is using my name Someone else is using my account. Sony won't help me. They don't care what I have to say. they won't get like So It's crazy And so what I really want to do is want I want to help them Yeah And I believe we can. We just got to keep the pressure up. U ultimately it's of my hands But I'm not going I'm going to do what I can. I think u I do think it's like it's in it's important to acknowledge that like,, and you've acknowledged this, by the way. and I think this is true not just for you. I think this is true for both people. whereere I think these types of things It's a good time to look It's a good time to examine Like there's a lot of things that happen that Pe people don't care about until it happens to them I think this is broad. This is true of like literally everybody. But It's just a good moment of just kind of like, okay, you're g you got to it's a good grounding moment which's just like, maybe things are kind of like important, even if they don't feel that way to us because they're not like directly impactful or whatever. And that's just like something that I think we all should keep in mind Beuse I by the way, I'm not singling you out. This just happens to me all the time. where' just like, I, whatever. And then I'm like and then'm the center of something and it's like, o Maybe I shouldn't be Yeah.'s it's a starark reminder, dude and I don't want to make it seem like I' jping on a grenade where it's like dude It's not like this is the only thing people were sending to me. Again, as I said earlier, like I have to show a lot of discretion. about the things that people say to me, I just made a bad decision And It might not have mattered. L the thing is it's like when the guy warned me that this was going to happen to me and my response to him was like, there's if this is what's going to happen, the crazy thing is that there's nothing can do I have a complicated password. I have two FA. If they're going to just do it They're going to do it. Yeah And by the way, like the whole serial number thing even got me crazy where I'm like, think about that Like You buy a console on Facebook It has the old account on that like the person sold it to. You have the serial number of the day and then you can call Sony and be like, oh Um Here's the I'm trying to get into this countount. Here's the email login That's on the machine already. Oh, and here here's the serial number of the machine That's it. That seems like it would be I bet you that like I don't know that the stealing like that happens every day, But those kind of transactions happen every day constantly. peopleeople selling consoles, buying consoles. Now often people format them, but many times they don't they don't know how to do it. They don't even know to do it Could you imagine like You can go be staying at someone's house, watching someone's house, go into another playayStation And still there go And That's why like when people are making excuses like you should't have done this. You shouldn' have done it. I'm like Th think about what you're saying. Re Th think about it Think about the purposes of passwords and actual things that only you really could know as opposed to the things that could be perceived by others And things that could be perceived by others even not easily probably shouldn't be the differentiator between access to things and not and not having access to things. That's just like, that's the thing that's really startling to me And there's nothing about the information again, that should bev. There's no reasonable expectation that that type of thing is so private as to be a satisf like an actable vector into priv into truly private information Pople are saying it's like, o, you shouldn't have like had it shared an email address. It's like, what Well like you said earlier, it's like they're supposed to be shared. It's like you shouldn't have walked your dog On the morning of the Chernobyl. You don't know that that's you don't know that some fucking moron is flipping switches at a Soviet bunker You know, like it's completely unreasonable that walking your dog where you live would it would expose you to like five thousand you know, Newtons of radiation. likeike this's like like it's I don't know. it just it bothers the hell out of me that that's like that was some of the respse it was just like, you should't have sha your email. It' Yeah or like, you shouldn't have sharered the statement and And I'm like, that's why I was like, maybe they're right. And then I went but that's why I was like so infury when I looked at it, I'm like, this is it. Well, they're right literally. Yeah. They're right literally in the sense that in this stupid world that was somehow enough. But like there's no sane world where that should be enough. Right exactly because that goes back to what I was saying is like, dude, like you could get your shit hijacked so easily Like there are there are mail carriers carrying your credit card statement to your mailbox right now. Right? There's way more information on that then Anything I've ever shown anyone in my life And people just throw them away. They didn't even open them You know, like like you it's so like it's so unthinkable and I don't know. I don't know. I don't know So anyway Um Mc Natamus Coen wrote in and he is certainly dead and said, I am sure you are going to be getting a lot of ton of writings, I'm sorry about what happened on Mond Monday. Unfortunately, here's another one Seeing you getting hacked in real time and following your tweets later on that day really got me concerned for myself I made my entire account private among many other various other changes to protect my account You had a major advantage when it came to the situation, and I' am glad you recogniz that for the masses, though, we would basically be robb of our entire library because PlaySationelp is useless and someone out there is the bigestunt on planet Earth All this really got to me that day and maybe Dustin is right. Perhaps our library is now not asfe as we would like to believe Maybe going physical is the only way to truly protect yourself Has this changed your stance on anything How do you think we can makeony listen? Love the show keeping awesome The funny and ironic thing and so for most people, What you're saying is I would say like, yes, kind of. notot everything's available physically, but like If what you cared about the most was that access to all of the games you've ever purchased, which is completely reasonable and normal to want that. then like, yeah, that is a protective thing. But imagine that like you would still lose your account U that undernder that circumstance, like all the saves for all those games are gone, all your tropies for all those games are gone, like all your friend your friend's list, all of your experience on that thing, that's still gone Um I understand that I am in a unique position. I am one in probably a hundred people where I'm like, that is not my biggest concern when I lost my account. It just wasn't I know that most people feel differently. And I get it. I think youre not all of you are a fucking psychopaths. I totally understand that. He did touch on something that I thought was interesting too, which is It's like These people are going after individuals and robbing them of their joy Rbbing ' them of their fun. this is their hobby. This is like, potentially for decades what they've done And I don't think it's cool that people go after companies and stuff like that either and hack them or whatever, but it's kind of different Right? Like You're literally like hurting people for no reason And you know you can do it and it's like a science to them And I find that level of predation sickening It reminds me a little bit of You know, I love a kipoga who' a great I don't watch streams, but he's I watch his YouTube videos, but he's like a streamer where he cons like the con artist or whatever and he's so funny and he's good at it. Oh, yeah, I think I've seen these things. And It's like they There are people there are people out there with no conscience like sociopathic. likeike absolutely no conscience. And those are the kinds of people you're dealing with when this happens. Like they don't give a fuck They don't have they don't have a soft spot in their entire body. They don't care about your joy. they don't care about your money. They don't care about the continuity in your life. They don't care about what this does to you or how it affs you. They don't give a fuck And he deals with much more serious things than this, but this is serious to the people in whoman affects as well And I was just thinking about that. It's like, yeah It's it's true like Sum of the Earth DBS. likeike no doubt You know, what's really sick about it to me is that like the detachment of it because it's because it's internet. oriented. It's like just through emails and through like You know, X,Y, like completely detached You know, it's one thing. it's one if you're stealing from somebody's house, you know what I mean? You got you gott to break it, you're you're breakaking and you're walking past, like You know, family photos, you're like, You know, but they're just like, whatever. Done Thousands of dollars. Yeah in the name of not working a real job you know, which is yeah And's that's so I've said this but I know I've said this before on the show is I'm so fascinated by these kinds of people because they clearly are capable of doing something else You can't you can't be incapable and do shit like this That's the shit that bothers me Yeah takes like ofarnac It's barnacle behavior But it's like you don't have to be a barnacle Barnacle You know, like, You're a much more sophisticated sea creature than that You choose to be that That's the most painful part. You can't really be stupid and do shit like this. That's kind of that you have to kind of accept that that people know what they're doing And that real I just don't have that in my heart Dussin said it earlier, like I would I like literally wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy I know that sounds crazy, but like knowing what it meant to and knowing it hurt me affected me it's like I wouldn'tish on anyone wom veryone. I think in going back to what some of the questions said about your digital versus physical library, I think just part of the problem is that The security and this may not just be the case for Sony, but we talked about other companies as well. and it's not even necessarily just video games is that The security for PlayStation network clearly has not evolved. to be at par to what people are spending on it You know right where like, okay Mbe early on where people were just buying like PlayStation minis and some PS one classics You know, we're not We're still talking about a sizable amount of money, but like Now in this day and age where people like the person who wrote in has their entire library were're talking about Thousands and thousands of dollars That is not secure And and I I totally understand Calm that you don't, like that's not wasn't your primary concern I think it is worth pointing out though, that like you can afford to rebuy any game that You would want to go back and play if you lost your account. Yeah, that's true. one hundred percent. And so A lot of people like If this happened to them, They are losing everything Uh and that's like even if for for someone like me where A majority of my collection is physical I don't want to be like, I'm safe, like gota boys because it's like, dude, noody has a pure physical library anymore It's just simply not possible with so many games now Uh, so and also like the thing about the trophies too is that like That's going to depend person to person. Like if I lost all trophies I'd be pretty annoyed, but it's like whatever. I'd be fine starting a new account Um, it would be The purchases It's like, dude, I don't wantanna go back and rebuy anything or if I lost all my fit. Like if I guess equivalent is like if my house burned down and I lost all my physical library, I guess that is a counter argument. It's like those are also tangible items that could be lost that would be saved if they were Digital So ye So yeah, the point I guess I'm trying to make overall is just that Sony security needs to be in line. with what people are spending now. and especially if they're expecting that. They are they want you to have everything locked up all of that investment in your account. And eventually, as Colin said They are going to release a handheld that presumably we don't know for sure but presumably iss going to be digital only with no way to use phhysical games. It's like, okay, well You need to make sure that people's investment of literally tens of thousands of dollars over the years needs to be secure It's also crazy to be's like and I understand this is like fifteen years ago, but like Sony, B The PSN already has had a history of like, Front facing very popular complete failures in security L that PSN hack into twenty eleven was crazy. It was was It was crazy. And like it really is still to this day like kind of like is in it is insane. People who are like maybe like newer to the audience or like not even necessarily to us as an audience, but like the PlayStation ecosystem is an audience like. That was like three straight weeks, I think. It I think it was wasn't more than it was more than was it a month or more than that? It was like bare minimum three and a half. Yeah. It was no, it was comical. It was like ridiculous. And that is like Unbelievable And so when they switched over to PS four and they were like, you know, we're going we're going to charge for for access to the PSN. In some ways, there an argument there it was like well, that kind of thing never happened on three hundred sixty. they've charging from the beginning. So maybe that money goes goes to something. Right. And maybe there maybe there's a value proposition there in spending that money. That's arguable, debatable, but depending on the person, whatever But you can't have that front facing of a failure, that big of a thing, no matter how long ago it was And then this far down the line You are ostensibly still the least secure Among the major accounts or among the major like players You know, like I I've never, never had an issue with my Xbox account N never had an issue with my Steam account. I've had these I've had those accounts way longer then my place station account. Now granted I haven't hadsues with my play station account y But like knowing that that's a crazy that vector, knowing that it's that easy is crazy And it's just like I don't know. I don't what you what you do about that. Like they've got a It's not something that they can't address In my opinion, I think it's worth adding too. I think maybe you said this Cin in our staff chat, not secret information, but like It's not Sony doesn't have security issues with just PlayStation. No Clearly between the Sony Pictures hack No, heomniac, hack What else was true it was Crunchy roll, like I mean, it's obviously something's up with them becausecauseuse's what wasing is like you don't hear about a lot of companies Like, you just don't hear it's like Amazon got hacked again or it's like, you know, it's like, yeah, it's like it's just like you either have to invest you're obviously not investing enough in this and you It's not a huge surprise that it wasn't secure becausecause they really didn't understand what they were doing with PlaySation Network You know, in the beginning It was kind of a thing where they're like They looked at Xbox live on, you know, on the original Xbox and they think like, I think they realized at some point they're like we got to get something And they had the modem for PS two and all the rest, but like this entire idea of a network, like an actual system, not aame by game dream cast style like you're connecting to the two K server. you're connecting to the powerower stone server. And I just don't think they've ever been caught up Like that's my whole theory of the case and it's like, you're electronics company, dude Like you got to And it's funny, it is true. It's like these are big things that are happening. L the Sony Pictures hack was like fucking disaster for them. I don't know if you guys remember that Like it was crazy I mean the insomniac hack is insane. Like all of it, all of it is like, how are you less secure than fucking Ashley Madison Like what do you mean? And and how do you not know that you're gonna to be a target? Most of these companies are self aware enough to know like we are going to be targeted Pe want this information. They want to fuck with us. like you have to be vigilant. We have to be aggressive And what's so funny about this too is course I was thinking about this specifically with you is Sony has ironically purchased a company in Bungie, which we're going to talk about later where These guys are so hardcore that they literally sue their cheaters into the ground. Like for monetary damages and the hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars. Like they they bought this company that is mega aggressive about protecting their walls barrier around the company And they're absorbed by this company that doesn't seem to give a shit that the bubble is burst on every little angle of the sphere around them. and The crunchy rolling is the most recent I don't recall Crunch Rll maybe they, but I don't rec Crunchlll getting hacked before Sony bought them You know, like Yeah So anyway, A few more things here James York wrote in and said, Hey C easy. Quick one, given the recent PSN hack. If Sony could guarantee the safety of your account through more thorough data collection, such as uploading an image of your face and or ID, would you do it These types of verifications are pretty despised and not trusted, but will it be the only way to protect ourselves from scammers andckers I think Sony said they already have to do it in the U and probably it will happen in the US in the foreseeable future. Would you give your personal data to Sony to protect your account Or do you feel it's an even greater risk seeing how they let this happen in the first place Stay stfe, protect yourself from the ritual network and keep those tin foil caps sngly on your heads I was wondering if it was the ritual netor A first. I'm gonna get call Moriartity's trophies Um There's a deep sense of despair with this question because the answer is like, yeah, that is the solution But would you trust Sony with that data Yeah I mean yeah, like it would be I think it would be, I've said this before. Like, I think you should be able to like There are companies out there that have my ID and all that stuff and I don't worry about it I do worry about Sony having that that's what's funny about like biometrics and stuff where it's like, yeah, do you really want them to have it though? Like yeah, it keeps you really secure, but what if the whole thing get hacked and then that shit' just leaked anyway and then like your whole idea is out there So' a catch It's a complete catch twenty two, L like a total catch twenty two. That would keep things safe. If they were like, listen, we're really like investing billions of dollars into the fixing these problems and like we are going we are dead to ass serious about this and all rest of and And's like that's different, but I don't think they're that serious about it The obituary of Cane wrote into a column Let's say you hypetically lost your PS account permanently What would you do? Would you burn your graduation certificate and regress back to being a Nintendo gamer Would you become an Xbox fanboy and go into pictures of Asha Sharma and font changers, Jesus Christ Mbe become full time gardener and host a Green Thum podcast Jokes aside, as we all know, you're a playlaceation gamer at heart. You host the world's number one PlaySation podcast after all, and the show must go on Plus you surely wouldn't be able to resist the allure of intergalactic Judas and the like. Do you think you'd take a break from games for a while until the anger and frustration subsided You you think you'd still focus on so much on trophies if you had to start from scratch? Absolutely not Regardless, we're all relieved you were able to get your account back. I think it's safe to say we as a community, we're all angry for you. It's funny because I was going through it where I was like, all right, so like what does it look like? I was even thinking like could there be content around like getting all your trophies back? And I'm like, that would take forever Like, o God. I was thinking I did the math like loose math and I've spent something like twenty thousand hours on PlayStation since the since troph's launched. That's something like I think Well me let me Let's see, twenty thousand hours divided by twenty four Yeah, so two point three years So no, of playtime. Right, right. exactly. Yeah That's like an almost impossible thing to do again. And But I did think about like what I would do. and what I think I would do is I probably would just gotten a really nice PC and gone on steam Um I don't want to say I would never have touched a PlStation console again, but I think that I would just not what I thought would like it's where my mind ultimately went because I toldust and I'm like, I'm being I think I said something like verbatate. I'm like I' being honest with you. It's going to be very hard for me to continue If this isn't solved U But the show must have gone on and it would have kept kept it in, but it would have been like I'm not playing on Paysttation Ifs that happens to me. We can continue to keep the show going. I guess maybe I would buy one for Intergalactic when it came out or something like that but I'm like I'm not playing it.ike you said Judas. I played Judas on P Like there's no way, there's no universe where I would spend money the amount of money I spend on a company if they didn't fix this problem But the reality is that the concierge style service that I got, which I'm really appreciative of from really nice and friendly people that were very thorough and helpful That's just not the advantage other people have. and I understand that. So Yeah I think that's what would have happened. It's like I would have just gone the steam I probably would just bought a new PC at an exorbitant price and like, well, at least they seem to give a shit. And most of the games are here anyway. So You know, I really like like the trophy thing would be veryly difficult for me I don't think I think people maybe realize because theyve listened to the show for a long time how deeply OCD I am And that would be very difficult for me to let go. Um I mean, it's is a crazy thing. It's it's It's interesting to me because like I saw that it happen and I was like, I was so sure you were going to get your account You what I mean?ike it was never even d down in my mind' like o Oh, it's like well, Like he's safe. He's probably he's probably safer than anybody. like you Well, not anybody, Oviously this people at Sony probably were obviously way safer. But like I just I was not not worried about it all. because I was like, it's comewere. he's going to get his a compp I think something worth pointing out that is true, Chris, Bun Some of the information we got is that things happened because they happen so quickly Hm That's why Collin's account is remained has kept its purity Oh with the like the speed, right If things had not happened sooner, We'd be having a very different episode R. Well, this's my understanding I mean, Colin mentioned that the Like some of the weird trophy stuff that people can do, like the hacking of the trophies Y is on the table. Yeah as we like yeah, I don't want to get stra. That's like where I'm trying to get too deep into things. It's like right There's so much more to this that we know And the people that need to know no It's Yeah, that that's part, that's part of it. Um hmm is And that's what's happened to more prominent people and that's what one of the people that I heard about is like that happened to them. They did get their account back, but they did the trophy thing to them It did fuck up their shit They got them banned. And u Yeah,'s crazy that's even poss, dude Like I still like, it's still crazy to me that like that any of that is and that it's unreversible or whatever, like that like I it just builduilding So so you're saying like, there's trophies that were like like either deleted or something and there was no way to reverse that Like, yeah, like so what the people do is like, yeah, they'll go into all these games and like ping You know, like aip you know, taco jump or whatever. And then they'll just play them like in quick succession And so they'll add them all permanently to your list, but then like these d timestamps, I think ping PSN because they're so close unnaturally close to each other, they think you're cheating Or you're playing on a modded console and then they ban and they might even ban your console for that, actually Um so 's insane So yeah, it's Literally when you like the more I think about it, the more I'm like, none of this makes any sense Like this could be so easily stopped even if you had to go and play whackamo, you can do it Like obviously there's one hundred and fifty million people on PSN. At any time, this is happening to probably thousands of people But like you got to do something about it, dude. Like I don't know. I don't know what you don't get about this. You want the other thing with PSN is you they want you to buy digital games. They make more money When you buy digital games Now it's up to according to their recent fiscal year report, up to eighty five percent of sales are digital Fix the fucking system Yeah Chris Um Let's see finally, I did want to read this and maybe I should have read this earlier too People do have good experiences Sony Kennhridge of spirits write I love that name says Hey Sacred St stududs, Col, I read about your terrible with getting your account back, so I thought I would share my actually good experience A few years ago as a brand new dad overly tired and not paying attention, I fell for a fishing scam. I know yours was zero fault of your own, but I felt like an eighty year old at that moment. embarrassed but desperate get my account back. I went through the chat support with PlayStation While I don't remember who it was, he was an absolute angel. He changed the email back, removed the scammers to FA and I was back in business all on my thirty minute lunch break I'm sorry to those that have had terrible experiences, but when you get someone that actually gives a shit, it can make all the difference Good luck to those that have had their accounts wrfully taken. I hope your situation helps raise awareness and eilllicitits action on Playsttation's part. Though I think we know not to hold our breath for that. Thank you for all that do. Yeah, I did want to know it and I heard from some people to me like it worked fine for me and I believe that Iady And I think that's great Um, It's notot like that for a lot of people And We got to make sure that everyone is getting a consistent experience. So I don't expect everyone's going to get the experience I had from the quality level in the access, but I don't think you should expect to be ignored and kicked at the curb. iod You are the customer They need to remember that And I'm I'm the customer too. I mean I'm not one of the typical media people. I pay for everything I play I am also the customer and I am easily there is zero doubt in my mind I am in the top one percent and probably in the top zero point five or zero point one percent of purchasers of games. Right? Like you have to assume that. I buy everything I play like thirty or forty games a year You know, like, There's no way people are buying one game a year, maybe Didn't they say sixty percent of people don't even buy full price games at all We just went over that. a like guys, open your eyes who keeps the who keep who the kind the type of person that keeps us afloat So All right, we leave it there All right, there's a bunch of other news to get through This week and we'll go through it here and talk, great deal a lot of PlayStation news. begins with an FYI, which is that Sony has announced that there'll be a state of play on Tuesday, june second. We talked a little bit about this earlier in the show and I think our plan that's a Tuesday. L like I said, so. Mondays we stream. I think we will do our prediction stream that Monday, june first. So I think that will be a nice little fun run and then we'll stream the show on june second and whoever is available for that can join and you're still around, then, doesn't? Yeah, it was funny. I celebrated because I was like, thank God, it's not on a Thursday that makes my life so much easier Then I realized Holly had three appointments that Tuesday But We worked it out. I'll be home before one o'clock This is more important thanatever is going on over there right now Yeah, ye. Well, it's it's a good there's a different reality where like we have an ultrasound that day and it's like I can't That's the one in the morning. What what if you have the ultrasound and you're like, what's on that baby's hand And there's a little adamant manium claws coming out Oh, a little marketing app Marketing Rne I could Could I stream it from the ultrasound? Like like I'm there and you can see them in the background. like Did I break you? Chris? It's just so like its it's just the stupidest thing you've ever heard in your life yet. Well, the thing about it is like it doesn't even feel unlikely It like not like it seems like it's like someone would take that money to do that certainly we're so shameless. Someone would do it. We joke about it, but someone would do it. yeah, someone would do it. that baby can to his own C section Oh Oh yeah, with the claws Yes. He'll be gentle. Yeahah, he knows what to do Oh All right, so stay to play. Tuesday June second. It'll be more than sixty minutes, they say. They've confirmed that it will begin with Wolarine. so That's pretty exciting. I think there are some assumptions that we might see. God of war as well or God of whatever U It's going to be called There were some rumors that there's even more than that I think as always, we should keep our expectations highly tempered PlaySation spepectral suuper retardation rode and it said, Hey CDC PlayStation has just announced a sixty minute state of play two whole weeks in advance. This is unusual and reads to me as high confidence Any predictions? I have a feeling this will be the big one I'm fucking hornning for more intergalactic info. Ill post my PSN transaction recets on Twitter and listen lease't here Um Yeahet Intergalactic. I mean, that would be kind of cool. I feel like it's not time yet if they're not going to release it I mean, that would be fucking awesome if it was in there But my mind is not even there for some reason Um My hope is that they stay away from the games as a service stuff. againain, not because I don't think they should be in that space. we've covered this endlessly, because I just think it's a distraction. You don't want to give anyone You know, like for loop being there, something that's like just Just let people focus on on this stuff. I also think the two weeks ahead of time that the lengthy, though not unprecedented length of it E three vibes. I mean, it is early June. It might be kind of like what their intention is in a way Chris, what are you expect Yeah, well the timing of it's interesting. So june second, I don't know if I necessarily expect a ton of live service stuff, but I expect Just based on the timing of it, I would imagine that there's probably going to be some Marathon season two stuff in there, maybe. the timing just seems conspicuous because season two, I think begins three days after that U So it would be a good opportunity, especially just get a marketing beat, which we've specifically been talking about how like's it's odd that Marathon doesn't have marketing beats. likeike that would be a good A good place to do it, especially considering these seasonal resets are considered officially or unofficially like the times to jump in for new players or lapsed or returning players So I would imagine seeing some of that. I know obviously Wolverine. I'm not excited to see Wolverine to be honest. I'm al kind of so on it. I don't know I want to see that much more of It's reminding me of like when when Spider Man two was starting to ramp up its's u advertising and you just couldn't Fucking get away from it and felt like you saw the whole game Or was that the first spiderman It might' have been both But As far as what I'm expecting, I'm not expecting intergalactic I'm not expecting fair games Uh I don't know talk about fair games in a little bit Yeah, I have air games anymore. Oh yeah. Well Oh boy. We're u yeah, I don't know. I really I kind of like that. I don't know. It's it's there's a lot of plates spinning presumably. I don't know what the timing is for a lot of studios. I would imagine Santa Monica is probably about ready to show something, right? Yeah It's going to be there gota work out of the fay game Yeah I don't, I don't, I don't know. mayaybe something second party. Yeah Second party I do believe I I've long said that I think PS five will end with a bang. and I think it's time to get that going. I mean, I think in showing intergalactic would be awesome. I just think that's such a huge distraction right now. I think you've got to do that a little later Im ye If you're not releasing until next year, which you're not, then just I would say get through Wolverine at least and then You don't really need to show it I would say even the game A awwards would be a great place to show it Yeah. I would say like just just based on the cadence of You know, we saw Ingalactic a while ago. it's still kind of a ways off We saw Wolverine a hell of a long while ago and then we saw it again A little while ago and it seems like we're approaching that era that point time where Wolverine's about to be center stage. Now based on the time frrame of like when a game is announced and when a game is unveiled and when a game is shown fully and then when a game comes out, it feels like based on that timeline, it's too early for another intergalactic, but it seems right around time where they might unveil somethingomet from Santa Monica for release in like you figure like twenty eight Um just based on, you know, the existing timeline. Hopefully, they've learned that quicker timeline is better. But I just don't think that that's really something that they're going to be Championing all that much Austin, what are your thoughts? Anything you're looking forward to I do think that the details around the state of play are very interesting. the two week lead upp But in addition on this blog post, You will be able to go see this state of play in theaters U particularly select Alamo draft houses specifically in like Los Angeles, San Francisco some horless Alamo draft hes Mr was here passasses So That's a little interesting. Now, I specifically use this cup today My PlayStation E three experience twenty sixteen. Look at that cup that I got from going to one of these theater things. It wasn't Alamo back then They just did it like a bunch more places, but I believe they also did it up like twenty, sixteen, seventeen and eighteen, if I remember correctly So it has been quite a while since they've done this. And I think you're right, Colin and We should always temper our expectations for state of play And honestly a showcase also, whatever they decide to call it But with that being said It feels different. Something about it feels a little different. And so yeah, like Wolverine, I'm in the same spot as Chris. likeike I don't really care. I care about the game. I don't care about seeing it again right now Uh sentially this God of War fake game. I kind of in fifty fifty on Ingalactic, like I could see them kind of wanting to start getting it going. The thingough with that Dustin is that I agree with you. It's totally pot within the realm of possibility, but the next time they show it, they have got to show gameplay And I just wonder if It's like, that's a distraction That would be like all anyone talks about Um They cannot show a trailer Hmm. they right yeah. they can't do like a They can't do like like a CG or like like a cinematic. they cannot do in my opinion, that would be such a bad move Yeah even even an in engine fly through or something like that would be too T mato Iy We saw multiple last West Part two trailers before we saw gameplay That's true, but I don't think that I don't think that the level of skepticism around that game has anything on this game.. I think that like They're not going to do themselves any favors by not shutting people up And I think they'll shut people up when they see it You know, so Now you maybe want to do that now You got to go but ye we figure that's November. next year, right The game Yeah. I would think that would be their big like the big launch era game. It might even be a PS six game. It would be on both, but it could very well be Yeah I it'd be pretty cool A actually, if that was a PS five PS six gin, that' would be prettyick I'm honestly more excited about the possibilities of third party in this state of play Yeah. I think we could see a Oni Musha U date on this with Capcom The Judicy Judas would be amazing But I can't I can't, I can't even say it all loud. I can't get U It feels like Square NX has been the director. It's like every time he opens his mouth, he's like, o, we're we're doing this. L he wants to talk about it. Now, Square Ex and Sony maybe not necessarily on the best terms, but Maybe, maybe Final fantasy. Remake part three possibility a pres Preic I think that at the very least, while we should always temper our expectations, I think this will have at least a few good ones. Yeah I think so too. The level of confidence of announcing it so early is unusual. and that's why again why I think it's just got e three vibes to it Yeah, it's the length the the the the announcement time in between and the time of year that kind of has me feeling like, oh, this might be a really good one So my expectations are kind of high actually I think they should be, to be honest. Well as we identified you know, last time, it's like we had to we had to showcase under the state of playlay Monker. so you really never know where you're going to get now. And there is something exciting about that. In other words, they folded down everything into this one moniker. And it could be a deep dive in the fucking Sarow or it could be this amazing ninety minute presentation that shows you a bunch of first party things and anything in between. We will see what state of play is on june second, Tuesday. It's at F easastern Expect us to go live with our stream on our YouTube channel. I was say four or four thirty. And we'll do sacred streaming the day before june first at one PM Eastern where we'll do our predictions And They'll probably be leaks by then so we'll probably a better idea what's actually happening All right, next up is news from reporter Jason Schreyer, confirming his earlier reporting from March in which he said that Sony is no longer going to be putting its single player games on PC In early March, he noted that at that time that while Marathon and Marvel Tocon would be continuing naturally to embrace multip platform really PC releases Um Ghost of Yote, which came out last fall and Saros, which just came out were both planned for PC, but those ports had been pulled. And he reported that then in March and there were some skepticism, but He tweeted out. he blew what is it I'm bllue sky? What is that called that? He setated You blew yourself. You blew out says sccoop. PlayStation Studio Business CEO Herman Holst told staff in a town hall Monday morning The the company's narrative single player games will now be Plsttation exclusive conffirming Bloomberg's report from earlier this year, he links to the original report that I just cited So we have that confirmed. I don't know why people were so skeptical of this. You can feel how you want about Jason Sreyer, but like he's not wrong I don't know why people would ever think Like I can't think of one article, like one thing he got wrong Um So when there was spticism around this, like, I'm not sure why you're sokeptical about it So yeah, they are indeed pulling their games from PC. well, not pulling them, but they're going to stop releasing their single player games on PC I feel like I don't know. I don't know how I feel about this Dustin, what do you think I'm disappointed But I understand My like I'm disappointed because I would have loved to see a situation where It was healthy for the PlayStation console U it was and the PC release was able to help support those teams They would get, you know, good sales and it would kind of just be a good situation for everybody involved But U as we've touched on throughout, I mean, really the the years at this point that PlayStation has been publishing their games on PC is that there has been a significant lack are a There's been diminishing returns PlayStation PC ports And it makes sense that it's like, why are we even doing this Why would we lessen the strength of the console. u for this if this is the kind of money that we're going to make from it. So I'm disappointed. because I think it was cool that that PC players could get in on it, potentially a lot of them that were never going to buy a Playsttation ever But As I said before, I get it So It is what it is Um Yeah, I think Andrew Fisner's inquiry gets into a little bit of what I think here. says, Hey, lads, now that it's it's official, Sony will no longer do PC ports for their single player titles. Do you believe this call was made with enough information? All of their releases of these types of games were months and years post PS five launch as opposed to launch with for the live service ones I think they could have tried once to do D and Date, but I suppose that's letting the genenie free out of the bottle Aladdin style wasn't really a good idea with a soon PS plus drop for Horizon. so what do I know Whats say you as I try to find more information for games instead of trying to sound smart on a write in. Andrew, thank you for writing in. I wonder they were We always use this Iicarous reference of like flying too close to the sun and the wax wings, right? It's They never really wanted to get too close. They never really knew It's to the point like they never really tried And I think they might be afraid of what they found out in a way or at least what it suggests about The the susceptibility of PlaySation and they want to now reinforce the walls instead. So I totally agree, actually that they never really knew We talk about Game passass and how like Xbox deployed this idea and now they know It was an expensive idea and it was a ultimately a bad idea, but they know This is like one of those things where I'm like, I don't think you ever really know becausecause you never really did it right in quotes But I also understand what they're trying to do. Chris, what do you think about this I think the realities of economics and just the the way things have changed taste wise and the way people's purchasing habits have changed, I think they're looking and I've said this before, but like I just feel like they look They're looking at a very different world now and they're looking at a place where they're making a next gen console that nobody seems to be that excited about. There doesn't seem to be a lot of reason to get into it, especially if you're just going to be posting your games on PC. and so I think I don't know. L I think they look at it and they look at what Xbox did to their brand and in many ways diluting it by publishing elsewhere, not just on but Xboxes well, I argue the PC thing is just just as valid. I know a lot of people who didn't buy an Xbox because they could just play on PC And The the money that they were making on PC wasn't great comp in comparison. and I think they look at a situation where it's just like, listen, we need a good reason for people to jump into our next machine. And if we have this other thing that people can do instead, That's that we're making pennies on the dollar comparison wise, like why are we doing that? Why not just make a case for our next machine? Why not make a case for our ecosystem? I That has literally never steered us wrong. That's literally always been the way this has worked. And we're seeing on the other side with Xbox that it's just ignoring that doesn't work either. And so yeah, I mean, I think it's probably the smart decision for them. selfishly, I'mummed out about it because I just I like I like the agnostic nature of things. I like everything to be available everywhere. I think selfishly from like a consumer perspective, that's really fun and really cool. and It's really's it's fun to it's fun to mod the shit out of God of W war, you know, it's funny And I like that level of flexibility and freedom. But from their perspective, I tot it makes complete sense to me. Like if I were there, if I were over there and I looked at the forecast and like just like the level of bubbling up excitement for the next generation, which I don't know, we're in the trenches And I don't fucking see it at all. Yeah, I don't either. I don't know anybody in I don't know anybody in my life at all that is like really pumped about the next machine Yeah, that's why I say the Moore'saw L like I don't, I don't see that eith And by this point and by this point in console's life cycle, you would expect to see that. at least more so than you would right now. Now, obviously it could be the case that like once we see this thing and once it's tangible and real, then you know, that'll be exciting and then people will be all about it. That's entirely possible. but just I think I think they have enough data to look at from behind the scenes to be like, all right, listen, we we've We've got to reinforce that this is an ecosystem that people need to be to play the best shit And I I can't fault them for it, really Although I selfishly wish they they would keep Be in PC is a space for me, because I think it's cool Yeah It it just goes into like, it's like you're saying like the money was wasn't that impressive, but it's not going to be that impressive because you, you know, like they you They really didt want to have their cake and eat it too and that's that's a little surprising to me. I thought they I thought they kind of should have understood better what was necessary, you know, if that makes any sense, like you got to kind of play the game or You'll never really know. like onnce the diminishing I think they thought there wouldn't be diminishing returns. And I think that that's reasonable don't believe it worked out very well. In in other words I think they saw the early sales of Days Gone or Zero Dawn and stuff and they were like This is going to work great. You know, brand It didn't. I mean, like and there there I bet you every project except for maybe a couple were profitable. on PC, but they're like, yeah at what unknown cost. And what's interesting about the original reporting from Jason what I was reading last night was He was saying, and this is what I love about like corporate back room like Fly on the wall shit we always talk about is He was like, there is a a there is a like a group of people internally that are making this argument. Like it's always interesting to think like who Who are the different and little city states inside and like what are the arguments that they make And why? And how does that all play out? and who makes, I think we know who makes the decisions, but how are the I would love to be privy to those conversations, dude. It would be so fascinating. Well, I just think I agree. I think The conversation even like right now in the Xbox side is like you're seeing all this stuff. Ahasharm is saying all the right things and really doing all the right things too. But You know, they they did a new logo and everybody's freaking out. I was like, Ohh my God, it's green again. Yeah. it's it's really It's fucking ridiculous. And look I appreciate it. Like I like it. I think it looks great But like, I mean, what is it? like Ultimately, if you're not going to if if your next generation machine is also just going to be like, everything's on PC. likeike what is and on PlayStation is the point, right Like I don't And I'm not saying that is like as a fan of exclusivity necessarily. L I kind of like from a selfish perspective, I don't like it actually. L it fragments potential audiences. like I think it's lame. but also, I mean, dude, like if I can get everything on Xbox on my PC and on PlayStation Your logo doesn't make a damn bit of difference And I think that's a big conversation that's happening right now. I think it's happening on a lower level. and I think it's happening on an executive level too. And I think they're just like, we're not going to do that Why would we do that? The audience It's not going to respond well And like maybe maybe there'll be like some out some backlash or whatever. But like the backlash to people not getting Playstation games on PC is going to be What? the people who weren't showing up to buy them anyway Yeah. I don't. They probably look that as kind of like a win in some wayss like we focus on the people we care about and the focus on the people that um actually participate in our ecosystem that You give us some much money Unless they, you know, buy every game and get every trophy and then getin, then we don't give a shit about. Yeah We don't care about those guys You want to we care most about the person who buys one game a year Arkham wrote in with a cbe says Good morrow, sacred gentleman with PlayStation pulling away from releasing games on PC. Do you think that Sony will delist the games they have already released on Steam Aecdotally I'veard multip people online say they left PlayStation this gyem because of exclusives going to PC. Soon you could pull the games off steam to send a clear message to everyone going forward that Playsttation is the only place to play these games If someone wanted to be really extreme they could remove the games from people's Steam library and refund them full amount. But obviously that would be incredibly stup Thanks for all the great content. Have a great week. mean that cost them hundreds of millions dollars. I don't think they would do that I am Now knowing what their plan is, it's like, I don't know that it actually kind of makes sense to pull them down In other words, like not like why would you Why keep them there You shouldn't take them away and you couldn't takeake them maybe you could, I don't know. Take them away from people that already bought them, but yeah, maybe if this is what you want, then you should just do that U But I don't think they're going to do that. and I don't know I know that they're not going to like refund everyone for like Concord style. That's not gonna happen. could I could maybe see them Maybe they do like a Nintendo thing. Where they're like with like the Mario game that like the All Stars collection that they did was just temporary. It's gonna to be up for this long. If you want it, go get it because it's done that may that may incentivize like a some boost in sales for these things before they go. but I think it's just better to keep them there. I think it's It's not necessarily a bad thing to have examples of what you do elsewhere Um even if you've decided to go and undo it I think people will get the message I think it would be an unforced error take them off. I think that would reflect very poorly on them and people would be mad about it, whether they were going to buy them or not Uh And they'll continue like They're going to continue to make money off those games for in perpetuity. Maybe it's not going to be crazy, money as as if not like when it came out at launch, but I'm sure they don't mind making a little scratch on like when the new God of war game presumably gets announced in two weeks probablyably going to see a nice uplift in sales on The God of warar games on PC. So I understand the message that would send, but I just They've already they've already made the investment. Those games have already exist. There's no undoing of that That's the big thing I was thinking too is like you it is you It is pure profit. It's not a lot of money, but you don't have to spend money on any of this stuff You've done it, you did it already. Yeah, I don't see them doing that. I think there's a lot of people that wonder what their feeling is on games on their games being on Hix I think this is less relevant. These days because it will be nothing new and The multiplayer games will already be there anyw So The other thing I see I see and we've talked a little bit about this on the show in the past is I know people are concerned about this in regards to Nxus, but I just don't think there's anything to be worried about. Maybe I'm totally wrong in this new playstation. There there seems to be quite a bit that we worried about Nixus is still going to be extremely useful for their PC ports that come from the multiplayer space and they're now c developing games. They worked on deeply on SarO. So anyone that beat the game you can look at the credits So Yeah So I think they'll be okay And it's funny because They were doing a great job It just, it just wasn't just wasn't again, they didn't want to play the game. They wanted to like be on the field and be like we're going play like socceread football. It's like, But we don't play soccer here And you can't expect people to sit in the stands in great numbers when we play football Oh weird outem All right, this one broke while we were recording And we have a perfect person here to talk about it Destiny too is done Bungie writes, Destiny two, every E is a new beginning And they write in part, quote, For almost twelve years, we have had the joy and honor to explore the Destiny universe with you all Through all the up and downs, surprises and triumphs, building destiny alongside our players has been a monumental privilege While our love of Destiny two has not changed, it has become clear that after the final shape, we have reached the time for our shared worlds and destiny to live beyond Destiny two. As our focus turns towards a new beginning for Bungie, we will begin work on incubating our next games end on june ninth, we will release the final live service content update for Destiny two to begin the new journey as a studio Soough active development may be concluding, we will ensure that Destiny two remains playable just as the original Destiny is today Many changes in this final update will aim to ensure that Destiny two is a welcoming place for players to return to We're proud of Destiny, the places that took us to and the legacy it has created Because of you are, our universe is vast built on years of shared stories, adventures, and victories From the Cosmodrome to theale Heart to the laaless frontier we have forged lifelong memories and friendships with you all We are incredibly grateful to everyone who made this journey with us fromrom the deepest part of our hearts, thank And we'll see you in the stars They talk about the update moment monument of triumph that comes out june ninth. being getting that a little bit. there's a bunch ofetails here. wont won't dive too deep I do wonder, um, I mean, I'm very curious what you think, Chris. I mean, obviously you're the greatest person we can imagine to talk to about this. Also the confirmation of multiple games Yeah, it's interesting. It seems so Man, I think a lot of things about this. First of all, I think Destiny two had already ended a while ago. I think most players kind of feel this intrinsically U The final shape was just a great ending. likeike it really like it was a better ending than anybody anticipated. It was an ending for a live service narrative, which is typically not something that's seen. Usually those things go on forever. and maybe from a business perspective, it would have been wise to maybe continue leading players on forever a story that just never ended Um, But they gave a great ending. and like I remember when I finished final shape, I was like, all right, I feel kind of good Like I'm kind of satiated with this. Nesting two is a great game u for all of its onboarding ills and the fact that like the beginning of it is kind of cut off. I do think I don't know, man. I do think it would have Maybe they just don't have it anymore or whatever, but like I think it would have been a really great thing to do to just since it's not a prime focus for them anymore clearly and they're moving forward like to not do something in the realm of like a D two classic or like a D two beginning chapters kind of thing to like have the beginning playable in some way. Like I think most players would have rather seen uh the beginning Red War campaign comeack and forsaken as and not necessarily Have a Star Wars expansion You know, like I think, uh, That would have been a lot better I think it's not really surprising. I think people who were caught off by this. I was I was always confused by the people latchhing on to Destiny two as as if they didn't clearly telegraph to the audience that it was kind of done with the final shape, but U yeah, it's bittersweet. It's weird. It'll be playable in perpetuity. I mean, Destiny one is still playable so like I don't I don't really worry about that play ability of DestinT from that angle But it's interesting. what's I see I've seen all like we were getting into the account hack earlier while this broke. So I was like kind of like, compiling a bunch of like reactions of what people were saying. I've seen a lot of people suggest that this oh, this means Destiny three is happening. is like, I don't know about that man. Like it's it's I don't know if you would be working on Destiny three while announcing the ending of Destiny two without communicating that and actively telegraphing that like this is not the end or whatever This seems fairly I don't want to say concrete that destiny's over, but like at the very least, it'll be a while before we see Destiny again And it seems like they're in the stages of incubating their next gamees plural And so like they're kind of fucking around with things and they're trying to figure out What works and what doesn't I don't know how long they've been incubating those games. It could be like really, really early. It could be like something that they've been toying around with for a little while. They say begin work incubating our next games Right.. So like that implies that they're kind of in the early stages of anything. Um So I don't know. I'm I'm fascinated by it. It seems like Marathon' going to be a prime focus for them now though, which is interesting Mh Selfishly I'm lookook, I'm done with Destiny two, but like I kind of dude, I really do love Destiny. It would be great. Like if a Destiny three were to somehow exist I would be stoked about it as like a new ground floor And as's like a new, kind of like, hey, you don' The previous stuff doesn't matter, like whatever This is a new jumping in point with like proper next gen stuff and a break from you have to remember, Destiny two is a PS four game at its heart, you know, like so it would be kind of cool to see That type of game brought forward in some way with like a brand new H Maybe like an updated engine, some new capabilities, next gen stuff. I think it'll be a while before we see that. And I think it'll be it's a good thing that it's a while likeike I think you need people to miss it for a little while So I'm all for them doing other things Uh in the meantime, but I don't know if I were them, I'd I'd be working on Disney three immediately personally, but Yeah, I I was I'm trying to find their employee count right now Bea I'm a little surprised. So as I can as far as I can tell at their highest, they were up to like four thousandteen hundred, which is insane They're down to probably below eight hundred now, maybe even something like seven hundred I was thinking like, How do you not have another game in development already And then I remembered they did And that game was spun off. into a first party studio. So because at first I was like gasted, I was like, what When I was reading this when we were taking a break, I'm like, Destiny two is over. Marathon is great, but struggling a little bit. I think they're going to stick with it You don't have another game in development The fuck are you kidd And then it's like, no, so when he actually took that game So it is a little bit more reasonable that Right ye. that maybe they wouldn't have anything going, but it's kind of a shame in the sense that if they're starting the incubation now You're looking at early twenty thousand thirties he would assume for anything past marathon from them, which is kind of nuts Yeah, presumably. I mean, that is Yeah, I don't. Like its it's like the bage is very specific. Begin work incubating doesn't imply. Um, that they're far along with anything. Like you like you said, they did they they were And it was stolen so o extstensively. so like can't necessarily fault them. but I don't know, man. I I like Marathon a lot. I think the potential is pretty high actually. People want destiny Butike I don't know. Like I don't like I don't know why would' necessarily busts your balls Maybe they just don't want to do it, Maybe they want to do other things. And like I get that from a creative perspective. and ye like at this point if I were so an like, we don't really give a fuck what you want to Like the last thing we're curious about is what you want R If I were Sony, I would be like Ny three, right, come on Like people want it. Like it's like people need to understand like Destiny to flounded for a number of reasons. None of those were because people didn't like playing the game Like the reason Destiny twoo doesn't have a lot of engagement anymore is because the game's st done And like there's a lot of other stuff to play and like there's it's not they've already they did their end game. It's like Marvel now. It's just like, Oh, fantastic Ford. Do you give a shit? Wh gives you shit about the fantastic four at all. Like they already did their end game. and so it's over But like, it's over for Destiny two Do doesn't mean they can't like, go into the future or maybe the distant past and do something else in that universe. It's a rife universe. It's like there's a lot to do and Marathon just kind of cements to me.'s just like they just they still know what they're doing gameplay wise. Like I just like, I would love another game from them. in that universe. I think it I think it'd be cool. So And obviously like the business practices of like, you know, the Destiny content vault where they like too took content from early on and like shoved it away. I think that stuff needs to be addressed, obviously if they're ever going to go forward. but There's not no path forward to destiny. I think the doom and gloom around it is like kind of weird because I feel like it's obvious's I feel like it's the obvious trajectory of a game that ends It's like how many people are playing How many people right now concurrently are playing the last of us You know what I mean? It's like it's over. Like you played It's done. I it's a multiplayer game, but like It's a multiplayer and nrative game that had an ending that was, by the way So I don't know I don't know what to do, but I would be all in on a D three personally. Well, my assumption, Chris is that everything's so intentional, the use of the plural games indicates to me that it's Destiny three and something else. So that is true. Yeah. I think that maybe and maybe they'll even incubate both and then see what direction they want to go in the year or something. But I would be I would have a hard time believing that they have much flexibility anymore Um Yeah, those days are done Like those days are long gone for Bungie. U I agree I just can't believe like I Sony lost billions of dollars on this There really is like there iss no reason for them buy this team. I'm sorry I know how passionate you are about them. I know we've talked about this a lot, but I This made no sense made It doesn't make sense especially if they were just going go undo their live service You know, like I always thought the price was obscene Like three point six billion dollars just doesn't really make any sense. No, no, none. I mean, to be honest, like most billion dollar acquisitions for game developers don't make any sense. likeike sixty nine c for activisionions like was it sixty, sixty nine for activeivision? Yeah sixty Yeah, sixty eight or six nine. That's fucking insane. I think seven billionars for Bethesda is also insane. Like I think these are really valuable teams and really valuable studios I think Bungie is a really valuable studio, but like three point six billionllars was always crazy to me. I think if they wanted to make a deal on Bungie and they wanted to get Bunchie for a reasonable price.ike I think that would have been I think that would That would have been smart, probably if they were going to actually do live service stuff, which apparently they just aren't going to do anymore. So like now, it's like, yeah, it's a really stupid idea Now it just doesn't make any sense. Yeah, I wonder if you just I don't know. I don't know like what they I don't know what they're feel is on it. It's like a team you almost feel like you just cut loose you know, um You don't shut them down Bungie's been cut loose Twice Already U I think at some point you have to realize it's them And I wonder if you just do that. It's like we've just had enough already. Like we've lost enough. We're going to get your game anyway. Why do we have to pay for it Well like that would would that's like my old question is like we would just get this That is true. Yeah They would have gotten marathon. they would have gotten It really, it really was nonsensical. and I agree with you, it is the price that is offensive. Disney basically bought all of Star Wars for the same price J so like that's insanity It's completely bonkers Yeah like and that's around That is a big price, but that's that is that actually is around where Star Wars would be Yeah, I agree. I agree. That's the point I'm making.'s like, you would think that I mean, respectully, you would think that this would be a subbillion dollar Yeah, I could see this. I could see that no more than a billion No more than and ability tight by the way. Now, I think they're they're deeply wounded and Yeah like Yeah, like Halo three Eb Bungie arguably maybe maybe, maybe one billion Maybe Maybe. Well, because think about it, like you can only put out so many games. like you have to make that money back plus you're now absorbing the fixed cost of the company. So it's it's like unthinkable doesn't make any sense. Yeah, it was it was a a lot of And again, it's it's not even a matter of like, I think they're I think they're a fantastic team. I think they do a lot of great work. I think u Uh I just think Marathon's great. I think Destiny's great. I don't think it's a level of talent bleed or a level of like what even are you anymore in comparison to like something like bioare. where like they've had string after string of failure and like, you know, it's Destiny two hadad like four fantastic expansions that people really regard highly. And that's not that's a far cry from Mass Eect Andromeda to Anthem to Dragon Aed Availilgards You know what I mean And so like it's like I think people who lump the like spungee in with those studios, like I don't think they really understand what's really going on The price is ridiculous If you were then just going to cut live service loose anyway, then the impetus behind the purchase for any price doesn't make any sense And so it is they're in an awkward position now where they've got a really good team doing really cool stuff, but like it's so fucking expensive I don't know what you do I think the move is Destiny three personally. I just think I think that game will Like if that especially if it's been enough time, dude. Oh my Godd. I think seeeeing a proper like the amount of time it's going to take to incubate and see Destiny three exist. is going to be so much time that it would actually be exciting to see Destiny again And that's kind of actually the most exciting part of it to me. It's just like to know that it it would theoretically be so far away that the technology would meaningfully change and that L we to we talk about gamees going away and how we wish like more games did like the uncharted thing. where it's like oh, it's been a year break I'm not saying ten years necessarily, but I mean, final shape was what twowo years ago or something like that ig another Four, five, I don't know I think people would be excited see that ST three again. I do I think would in I do think it would ra in a lot of money, but like we'll see Yeah, I think I think there'd be a lot of nostalgia driving it. with the question is like, would you ever You're never going to make the investment back. It's the same thing with Activision Like Microsoft will never make that money back It's a matter of like what from that product. It's a matter of like what you, I guess extract from it in the meantime and what you would think is Destiny three will cost hundreds of millions of dollars. You've alreadyaid all this money and now you're going to sink costs into this other thing. You've just got to be careful with it. I wonder what I wonder what they're going to do. Um sin,'s from you on the end of Destiny two and anything you'd like to say I'm a bit mixed on what I think Bungie should do next. but Before I get ahead of myself I I think it's time And I know there are online MMO's continue to go on Semingly forever. World of Warcraft. Final Fantasy fourteen, things like that Um, but I never felt like Destiny was quite like those games in the first place with its heavy emphasis on characters and story and cinematic. and again I guess Final Fantasy XV does have a lot of that and people really do deeply care. So maybe it's not a good comparison. but U it's clear that like feel like the vision of destiny has been Fulfilled And I get there are people that will endlessly play The same game. for the rest of their lives. But it's clear from the player numbers even with the final shape that it's like they People had enough And so that's kind of partially where I disagree with Chris is that I wonder if Destiny three has too much baggage to be successful or to be the the not to be successful. I think it would be successful to be the right next move I could see a spiritual successor to destiny or something that is like, this is our new version of what we created. What we laid the groundwork for with Destiny one and two. I wonder, I think the hard part for me and what I assume is poor am the majority of destiny players that fell off at some point is they see Destiny three and they're like, well I never finished Destiny two There is so much shit I'm behind on Maybe that wouldn't matter to some people. it would matter to me And maybe I would go back to Destiny two and finish all up, which I did most of destiny too I think there's who I didn't do beyond light and I didn't do final shape And the stuff after that no one cares about. Truly, no one cares about So yeah I need it Okay No, no, because I was thinking like I get that, but like I think that's why Any perceived Destiny three would not be like a continuation It would be like It would be like either like, u However many years in the future, whatever, or however many years even in the past, think I think if Destiny three as a prequel would be fucking sick actually. But I I get what you're saying, whereere it's like I didn't finish testy two. It's like Well, you don't have It's not part of it., You know what I mean? It's like a separate. Destiny one and two are actually like far more intertwined and somehow people were like, yeah, I'll go to Destiny two T like I don't know On a personal level And this is not me thinking from a business censor like what would work best. I I would want to see them make something that's like we're taking everything we learned from Destiny one and two. all the ways that we fucked up and all the ways we succeeded in those games and we're doing something new because I guess I see Bungie as like a company that is very creative and visionary in its worlds that it creates. And so to see them return to the world that they've worked on and put out content for twelve years. is boring That's what and I you can make the argument like, well, they returned to marathon. It's like, dude, it's Chris you've pointed out this is like, Yes, marathon, cururrent marathon Very, very, very different from that old marathon but it is still very through Story wise, Yes, but in a new way they've been able to reinvent Marathon into something new. And who knows? Maybe they could do that with Destiny at some point. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I would be disappointed to be like, oh, we're going. They've explored that done so many different types of things and gone to so many places in that world learard so many different stories that I'm like, dude Give me everything you built in terms of an MMO FPS from Destiny and then do it in a new thing. becausecause I trust Bungie to come up with an idea in a new setting and a new world. that will blow my mind. becausecause I didn't care about Marathon I never cared about going back to those old games and now that I'm playing the new marathon, I'm like This world's sick And I want to know about Durandal and I want to know about these different AIs and what happened on Taletti and stuff like that. They're masters at that So F from a creative standpoint, I'm like I want something new. I think they should continue to feed those destiny players that want that experience. Clearly, they've created something Incredible with that. I mean, I put hundreds of hours across Playsttation and on my PC into both Destiny onene and Destiny two. So I was in it for a long time So Like I said, that's a personal want that I'm like let's These guys are masters at creating worlds We've done that Let's let's Let's give him something new and something the same at the same time We'll see what happens. I I u I willll be watching this with close eyes because this is going to be this is these projects will suck up more money than almost anything that Sony probably does putit in the first party Um And so it's certainly worth keepeing a close eye on all of that All right, let's see. nexte article boy. Our friends over at Push Square report on a trademark. filing for a game called Break in BR E A K, space I N in all capital letters, interestingly But I don't know if that matters or not This can only be one thing. I think it's pretty clear what it is only from the name, but Dustin, what else did you look at this? there's a subtle hint in the filing if you look at it Well, yeah, I feel like everyone's making the assumption., But there's something that indicates that that's what it is other than the name It's the filing language It says filing language, English, secondcond language French And there's only one French speaking first party studio under PlaySations umbrella and that is Haven in Quebec And thus, I think all these clues fairly because break in and by itself, I think fairly obvious, but that does it to me. And so likeike this is a fair games and At least they're wise enough to rebrand it I don't know and that's too bad because I've said from the very beginning, I think fair games is a dope name It's too bad that it's wrapped up in this I gotta say I also think Bakin's kind of cool name and I'm surprised that it's not tak But uh I wonder if they'll do like break in with some weird fucking Oh my God I don't know they're going to do But u This is what it is and so they also report that Gamatsu, they really are reporting from Gamatsu, I should say over a push swe that There are also play break in accounts on Instram, Redit, TikTok,X and YouTube So This is just like what happened with Hunters Gathering where play Horizon HG on all of their stuff. So Um This is Dustin, almost certainly fair games. What do you think I'm because they have these accounts ready to go We were talking about the state of play earlier I feel like it's time. And I hope they don't do it this one They're going to though, you're probably right It's so interesting because what I've what I understand is that it's not very good We'll see. I mean, that's one man's a, you know, one man's opinion of of someone saying that they played, you know, they played it extensively or whatever so maybe other people lied it I don't know. Yeah. We'll have to see when the game When we finally see what it is for real, but It certainly was an essential move. to rebrand The game at this point. It's been so long It already has a stink to it because of all the various things between u Jade Raymond leaving and Sony's live service Kfuffles over the years. And so The reband, I think is the right move, but Will it be enough it won't, particularly if the game is not showing very impressive. and I It's a little bit of a smoke in mirrors. It's like, well, who Do doesn't matter really what it's called. Is it going to be interestnteresting is it going to As we said about Concorde, being good is not enough or even Acceptable is not good enough you know Um, There's a huge uphill battle be with break in or whatever. Break in is a name though. I agree with you, Colin. It's not bad. No, I think both games names were fine If not really good Um Yeah, Fair games is tainted It does seem like they're going to stick with it Chris, what do you think That's the most surprising part of this to me is that I I think we kind of assumed Maybe not maybe not that it was so certain, but like there was it was on the table that they would just write this down. You know, u based on some of the stuff that we've been hearing, based on the director leaving and all that kind of thing. and just based on like Sony's general feeling towards Life service now, which is a lot different than when this game was originally incubating and And when they were originally more committed to it, there was a reality that was not too far fetched that this game would just not exist going forward, likeike why Well they could argue that Having announced it publicly already, canceling it is arguably an equivalent black eye to just releasing it and having it not do well Um, It's not like they were incubating this and they were working on this in complete secrecy and then they caned like there's all there's millions of games like that, you know, like where it's o, they were working on it, neverever announced it, got canceled. And no one's any peopleople are none the wiser Um And then it's like it's not really a problem for anybody. But Yeah, I mean It Wise to rebrand it. Break in, I guess is fine Um Fair Games is a little bit more distinct, to be honest, but like Break in, I guess is removed from the stink of that name U I don't know. I mean, If they have those accounts already, then we probably will see it at the state of play Just crazy. I just You have to so here's the thing, right? You have to imagine Jad This is so weird. So If it's going to be at the state of play If all these accounts are ready They've gotta know D People are going to be immediately negative about it And so I feel like the only way to get ahead of that If you're going to show the game at the state of play is playayable now You know? L just like get it like make it so like people don't even have time. Yeah, I like that idea. becausecause I think There's I think there's non zero chance that like if this game comes if this game like is shown or whatever and then it's like releasedate and You know Four months It's just like it's over. Like I don't think people are going to be that impressed by it. If they see it and then their curiosity is piqued, even if it doesn't look very good But like they are allowed to like sink into it immediately and like figure it out. That could help a lot. I feel like I remember like when when Oblivion remake Oblivionian rememaster did that shadow drop. I mean, that was anticipated in some way shape or form anyway. But like when they shadow dropped it, everybody loved it. And it was kind of unanimous, even though that game has some really major problems. Not even stemming from the original game, but like stemming from how poorly it runs, how poorly optimized it is. Like the story of that game has changed very, very drastically over the years or so that it's been out from this kind of like big darling love letter of a game to something that's just like completely poorly optimized and kind of like a notot a great way to play that game. for most people on most hardware So thinkink ' probablyro wise for them to just if they're going to show it to stay to play There's got to be like a public bat or something that they shadow drop as well, right? I mean, I don't know. I wouldn't show it if people couldn't immediately play it. Yeah this in this environment, like I don't know. you look at Hgard where like I almost wonder what the reception of the game would have been if if people didn't have time to rumin it on how much how weird it looked or how unfun it was. Not that it would have survived U necessarily, but I do wonder Like what that would have been if people could just jump in immediately without having any preconceived notions, without consuming any like They hate media, you know I don't know. think I think that kind of thing matters now in ways that it didn't used to Yeah, I agree with you actually and I do wonder what the situation is with it like Horizon Hunters Gathering is in its second closed beta right now. I think it begins this weekend I wonder if They're going to skip all that orr if that's what they're leaning into next. when when the game go. Yeah, I don't, I don't know where they are. I just I don't know that changing the name is going to be sufficient. Paper cl paper Paper clit slitter, which is just awful. Oh, Jesus.Cause like what paper cut clit slitter is actually the name. It's like, what you don't like? Don't open your mail with your vagina You know That's not what it's for. Greeting, CDC. sounds like Sony has trademarked break in ahead of the state of play and the general consensus is that this is a rebrand of fair gam. Simple question will't be enough? Is there anything they could reasonably do to change the perception of the game, the game that doesn't exist yet but everyone's mind is already made up on O or is the internet hate moob too strong for a course correction My bet would be that it's not going to be sufficient Um Changing your name is not really I actually so I like the name. I like both names. I've said that a mill times already I almost feel like changing the name is an admission of failure Like just lean into it It is what it is, dude. It literally is what it is. It's Nothing you can do about it And We'll see what happens. if it's a for dollarars game, it's dead If it's a free to play game whichich I know that Sony didn't want to do originally, but maybe they're going to do it with this game. I don' have no reporting on that. I just, you know, it's just a feeling I might have. Um, Maybe it has a chance I don't know. Yeah, the game lost its director, it lost its producer, the studio founder' gone New name. Obviously way later than they wanted it to be Uh And they they they also have Horizon going both horizon games because they have the Horizon MMO as well. they have Four loop going. they have the Tam LFG game going, Gummy bears There does come a point, it's the square Enex problem of like you're actually competing with yourself at some point. You should have these games incubating, you should separate them by like six months each and just see, you know, you got toa, gott to be more deliberate. We'll see what happens.ct I actually wonder about like maybe Do you think it's too early for that gummy bears game to show up at the state of players maybe I don't I don't know you would assume that it's furtherpart That's a good question Chris because you would assume if they're this goes back to the bungee thing. if you if you assume that they really have nothing else going in those two games that they're incubating, then the yeah might have been taken from them when it was quite far And and if they were able to take the team, like the literal team that's making it, it indicates that, you know A team at Cestter around the project. They're not being stretched from one game to the next So maybe Yeahaybe. I'm worried about that game too. We'll see, u it didn't look appealing to me personally, but I think u Yeah,ude, I don't know. if this game iss not playable the day of the day to play, it's I don't know, man I think it's kind of dead personally. I think I think you got to get people in and to have people form their opinions before the the internet does. I also feel like it's a terrible timing for that because I mean, june second, pres let's presume that it's playable that day, right? And it's it goes for like, I don't know like a week playable beta or maybe even comes out Who the fuck knows I don't know Marathon season two starts And like you did. So like you're kind of cannibalizing yourself in a way where you kind of need a lot of eyes on that. Yeah. if you're going I don't know, man. I'm seeing like just feels like bad I'm getting bad vibes, dude There's this is a square annex conundrum. It really is actually. It's kind of an interesting way of looking at it. Like you're actually maybe making too much on top of one another Yeaho We'll see because yeah, for loop is for loop seems like it's It's going to be I'm a little surprised how hard people are being for loop, but I think it has a much better chance than was ye. All right, also from Push Square. Well, this was announced by Sony, but that Push square has a nice little chart. So PlayStation announces starting may twentieth, so this was yesterday for one of recording. It's too late for you. PlayStation plus prices for new customers will increase in select regions Due to ongoing market conditions which of are unknown because it's a digital service. Prices will start at ten cllars ninety nine cents. USD for a month and twenty seven ninety nine for a three month subscription The annual subscription unless you are in certain countries like Turkey and India, will not rise. So if you buy your PlayStation plus subscription all at once it will not matter for you. But if you buy a one or three month subscription, the prices are going from for one month, PS plus essential niney nine to n ninety nine, P plus extra fourteen n ninety nine to sixteen ninet nine and P plus premium seventeen nine to nineteen ninety nine Three months will be twenty four ninety nine to twenty seven ninety nine for ential thirty nine, ninety nine to forty three, ninety nine for PS plus extra And forty nine, ninety nine to thousandty fourars ninety nineents for the highest t, which is what I already forgot in premium. Chris Kendrick wrote in and said,yC, I recently read Push Square's coverage of Sony increasing the price of shorter term PS plus subscriptions in the follow upp article showing only a small percentage of readers still view PS plus essential as a good value With Sony seemingly steering people towards annual subscriptions and a larger ecosystem commitment, do you think PlayStation is slowly conditioning players into treating PS plus as utility bill rather than a gaming subscription. At what point does the value proposition start working against player goodwill I do think the the annual leaving at least for now the annual pricing alone is smart because that's where you want people to be It's more expensive and actually makes them more money if you buy things on a month or a three month basis, but you really shouldn't be treating PS plus like that in my opinion The way I look at it and this is just me, especially with extrra so the middle tier The game catalog here is like, I think you got to choose what you're going to do I think you got to kind of choose your space. Now. It's more al la carte and multifaceted in PlayStation than it is in the Xbox space. Like I think it's weird to be on Xbox and have game passass and then have this conundrum of like, oh, if this game's on in game pass, Do I spend money on it? It's like well, yeah, but then am I getting value out of game passass? And I would be so caught up in that cycle I really feel like choosing your path is right And so If you are committed to the game catalog, for instance, which a lot of people are, especially for legacy games, don't even care about new games. they just want to play legacy games justust get a month just pardon me, justust get a year subscription I know it's a larger investment, but it's just straight up cheaper even before the price increase. And since The yearly prices aren't yet affected And you won't be affected by the new pricing unless you cancel your subscription or itapses. So make sure on PlayStation pllus or on PSN that you have selected that you want to continue your PlayStation plus subscription when it expires, so you don't hit with these new prices, but u prricing iss kind of getting out of control I think PSN was free in the PS three era and it was free on Nita. I think everyone knows that, but like We started paying for it. I think it's fairly reasonable to pay for it It's funny that we're paying more money for this thing that they can't even protect Um, Maybe they'll use that to move the call centers to the United States Although I highly doubt it I just feel like If I way, I'maying like eighty dollars a year for Cloud saaves at this point or whatever it is And I'm like, God, I feel like you should just give me cloud saving first of all. And second, but even if I have to pay for it It seems exorbitant. P PS plus has gone up substantially And I do think that there's a lot of good perks in terms of the games you get and whatever. and I think We play a lot of games so the games are not often for us. But if you're kind of a regular person quite a lot of content for you. So I don't want to diminish its value. I just I don't think it's it's much like what happened in Game Pass where. It's not like a no brainer. It's certainly like not a no brainer for a normal person to spend twenty or thirty dollars a month on this thing So We'll see what happens. is you guys are both at extra, right No I'm essential do Every once in a while, like they'll give you the option to pay for the rest of your year in premium So I've done that towards the end of my subscription just to see what's on there the classics stuff like that. So I'm just on essential right now And U I'm just on the twelve month. so this technically does not affect me But I do agree that the pricing is getting a very annoying and I think in general, the PS plus free games have been a little They felt a little more lackluster to me personally But it's as you were saying, Cong, like we're and in the core group that If there is a game that is desirable, I probably have already bought it. And I would assume that's also the case of push square readers as well that they would find it less valuable. So Um It's annoying that everything keeps going up. and I guess just be I'm thankful that they didn't increase the twelve months but I'm Nothing is sacred. So It'll probably come at some point What does Darth Vader say to Lando pray that I do not alter it further what does is he Yeah, pray do I not alter it further Chris, where are you on P plus right now A you on central? Uh, I don't even know. I think I bumped up to preremium for a month, but I can't remember if I really don't know Uh I bounce back and forth, but then sometimes I'll just like Do it like an annual. remium, You know what I mean?' was like, What I wonder with them is like they're talking about market conditions. I'm like, I don't think that's really sufficient Market conditions for what for your subscription service. Like I don't understand. Now, I know that costs are going up across the board. Obviously, there's massive server farms involved in all of this. I get that, but I don't really like that explanation Yeah, it feels it feels fake it seems designed to get people to just sign up for yearly subscriptions, which again, I think you should just do Just choose your lane Um whatever that le might be, That's my advice. I think we have to, I don't want to say we have to grin and bear it. I just think that if you are intentional about your decision making with GamePass or with PlayStation pllus Xra or whatever you use, I think you can even with these price increases, you can get massive value out of them So you end I think this is this is obviously a high gross thing for Sony You really can't interact with PlayStation in a modern way without PS plus Not really possible So somethingomething to consider. All right. we'll keep an eye on that The next piece of news I wanted to get into is just that Jordan Midler A friend of mine over at Vide Games Chronicle had discussed, I guess on a podcast that as he understands infamous is is going to be returning in some way I think he was actually on the kind of funny gamecast or at least he U No, he was on VGC's podcasts first and then he went to kind of fununny, I think to elaborate on it Um So He says, I think on his own podcast, quote, he's under the impression that there isn't an infamous thing happening somewhere in PlayStation at the minute and quote And u He goes on and talks about how it's probably, I think on the kind of fununny games cast then about how it's probably related to the older games presumably infamous one and two, from two thousand nine to two thousand eleven both. Excellent. Excellent Socer punch games, probably My favoritecer punch games. I would say U And actually a friend of the show Radic was tweeting out some images some videos from infants and I'm like, Godd this game was good dud Like videos of like the dropping like the electric drop or whatever and all that. I'm like this game was fun There are a couple of things I want to add to this, N nothing that I have reporting, but just that like I said I know Jordan. I trust Jordan. I've talked to him extensively about many things behind the scenes over the years and he knows what he's talking. So It's someone that you can trust, in my opinion. I think he would know So I wanted to throw that out there. The second thing is is that I discovered a little something. no one really picked up the reporting, and it's not maybe that interesting, but You'll remember that in twenty twenty two, we discussed how Sucker Punch posted a news article on their website about how there were no infamous or Sly Cooper games in development and basically implying that like there aren't going to be because we're not going to make it And this was at the time that we were talking about how these studios of some repute have control. more than others I went I was like, they said that right. I went to looked it up,' delet Hm. She home Um, I went on the way backack machine to make sure and it's there on the way backack machine says what it says what it says and all the rest so I think there's something here. Dustin Infamous one and two. Hm. Yeah a littleaser collection. fiveive. I mean, would you even just do a PS four version of it? but maybe you just do a PS five. Yeah, like some sort of collection Plus festival of Blood as well, the infamous I expansion Pret tantalizing to me I think that sounds great. I I think I played a little bit of infamous one So long agoous I played infamous the PS four Oh second son. the u Really? Dude, those are great games, man Like I' really I'm surprised by that. I'm actually surprised by that I'm trying to remember why I fell off of it. I mean, this was so long ago. It's probably becausecause protype took your attention, right? Yeah, you're right, it protype that got me, A Yeah. so I love the idea of these games coming back and being modernized to some degree. I'm curious if with that level of control that you were mentioning Colin, like is this something that Soccer Punch is like, okay, well, we're done with Yote Maybe while we are really getting the next main project going Do we have a team clean these up And it's a much quicker like in betweener. Yeah project. Right becauseate people had noted Nate Fox who's the longim creative director of Sucker Punch bothoth of infamous and of ghost He had said that they would be amenable to returning to like to doing that. I don't know if you remember that during the Gost Yote media tour. I wonder if it was an implication of what they were going to do Um At the same time, and I wonder what you think of this, Chris, I don't really want Sucker Punch itself to be doing it. It feels like a waste of time And and I will say this as well. I definitely don't want a new infamous game. I am absolutely I don't know I'm staunch about that. I don't know what people don't understand about you already have your superhero games. You've chosen your lane And by the way, Spider Man And Spider Man too and Miles Morales and all and what we're going to see with Wolverine and all this I. they're they're all selling substantially more. like In two months, Spider Man probably sold as many copies as every infamous game combined So It's not a Y. And I know they're different studios, but you have your superhero games. so go So I guess what I'm saying is I wonder if you agree with me This is a good idea. Have an external team do it. You move on I don't want you to do another gost game either and I definitely don't want you to Sly Cooper. Make something new Yeah I think Why Get it I I'm torn because I don't think it's the best use of their resources, but I think a new infamous game would slap But like I I do think you're right where it's like they have chosen Allaine with their superhero with this type of game And it it would be a little awkward to do. and arguably it would be better for them to just move on to something new from the ground up U that isn't ghost or infamous, giveive them the chance to flex their muscles a little bit and do something completely different. Uh, I don't know. I I like infamous sexually. I really like second son I like seconde Son as well. I think the first one I think there it's a beautiful game and it runs great. I think the The first two were better, though, in my opinion I yeah, I don't I don't I don't have as much experience with the first two to be fair. Like I played I played infinence one and two On a borrowed pol station in like twenty twenty twelve Maybe eleven Um And I liked what I played, but it was just it wasn't my console. so it was just kind of like I would just stick around in it and I would just kind of move on to my through sixty where like I owned my stuff Second Son, I thought was like just the video, like the type of powers that you have. I just remember being like, this is so creative and interesting. and it's way more interesting than just like lightning to me. Yeah, I agree And from that angle, I just like, I'm into this, whatever this is I do think it's kind of done. I think the biggest thing is just like getting those games playable again would be more than sufficient for me you know, moving those forward gettingting them off the PS three Um I don't know if I need a new infamous game Yeah, the powers that be u Have a decision to make here. I think they've already probably made their decision. And some people would disagree and say like, well, Infamous and Spider Man and the Marvel stuff don't occupy the same territory but I'm like, no, I think they do. And in fact I think like infamous kind of looks silly. next to what you're trying to do with the stuff. So embrace We don't have good PS three access. Infamous one and two are beloved cult games from the PS three, which a lot of people didn't have they have no good way of playing them. Second Son you're right is a is a is a great game with great powers. likeike yeah, cononcrete neon. like it was cool. It was a cool neat approach the things But yeah, I don't want I don't want more infamous. I mean, would I be disappointed if sucker punch made in like a new infamous game? Not necessarily, I would be surprised. It's like, that's what you want to do You have to be so choosy these days. You only have so many projects in your career and so much time. You want to make another infamous To me, that just, I don't mean to diminish it. It's just like, it's it's why I'm so indignant about like going back toly Cooper. It's like, you want to make a Sly Cooper. Come on man goo spend four years and make something new. I will reiterate this. Sony has been very good about generally, about knowing when to move on. and Sometimes we feel like they move on too soon, and it doesn't mean that things can't stay alive forever so that you get them later. likeike, I think we're going get more uncharted But it's been dormant for ten years doesn't really feel like it's too soon, feels like it's appropriate. Now it would be a similar timing actually even more so with infamous because Infamous came out early twenty fourteen PS four So there's been an exorbitate amount of time, but I think the situation has changed. We don't have we don't have an uncharted another uncharted game If that makes sense. We don't have an action adventure Globe trotting indie series. So and I mean indie I andDY So we'll be monitoring that as well Warhorse Studioos on their social media page, Warhorse, of course being the studio behind the Kingdom Come Deliverance Games They announced interesting stuff here. They have there is no article or anything. They just say it on their on their Twitter account here. I'm looking at it They're making two games Of course earlier this year came come Um, what was no, it was last year C to comeome Dliverance, two came out, right And then it was earlier this year that it came the first one came to PS five, That's what it was And the original one one of course came to PS four in twenty eighteen. Beloved, Michael loves them. Beloved uh very accurate historical pllotting deliberate role playaying games. That locks a big thing too. So they're making two gam They say The first is not so surprising, a New Kingdom comeome adventure, I think that that makes some sense They're also making an open world middle Earth RPG ustin what do you think about that I think this sounds awesome. sounds like the team to do it I'm trying to remember because they' Who was it that had like the Lord of the Rings license? Was it Ebracer, which we're gonna to talk about shortly. own they own feellllowship entertainment, or whatever. So So yeah, this is a license presumably Yeah. So I am very interested in this. I wonder what they're going to do like what time frrame of the Lord of the Rings world they'll do this. I think it would be really cool to do something totally separate from the core Lord of the Rings, you know, Frodo adventure of the Ring. That world is so rich in terms of the history of before and during the main events that we know from the Three Lord of the Rings books, off course, there's like Samarillian and all the different stuff that Tolkien did. So there's a lot of different ways they could go with it So I'm I'm very intrigued because Lord of the Rings has kind of been out of the spotlight in terms of video games for We willll sayay out of the spotlight for any good games for quite a while Yeah. So I I think it's awesome Chris are you interested in a Kingdom come style Lord of the Ring game, I guess? more I don't know what they're gonna do but something presumably more grounded Yeah, I mean, I think I think it's a great idea. I think it's interesting. I think that is the team to do it I think Yeah, Lord of the Rings is weird because I feel like there's been so many Return of the King, I remember on the original Xbox playing the shit out of it. And I remember thinking that it was actually really good. I haven't played it in forever So maybe it hasn't aged super well, but I remember loving that game when I was a kid and thinking it was way better than it had any right to be Lord of the Rings cononquest. I was also like a big fan of that was the pandemic buuilt kind of battlefront Lord of the Rings game. It was way that also it was just way better had any right to be. And so like I think Lord of the Rings is a really flexible IP. There's a lot you could do in video games that just hasn't really been done. They've chosen instead to build I don't know, fucking Gllm And that's it. Lord of Ring. You know, but middle Shadow of War though was great And so like, u they've dabbled, but Things should be better. And I think yeah, that' a that's a great studio and a great idea Have had it Pedro Alz gets a little bit into the potential board of the Rings and all this He says Hey, CD With the announcement that Warhorse is working on an open middle earth RPG Are we finally getting a good Lord of the Rings game? YouTuber, I finished a video game once did a five hour retrospective covering all the games based on Tolkien's books. There were a few games here and there, but overall, the list was bleak. Since you made that video, we've gotten the likes of Lord of Ringoum and Tales of the Shire, a cozy lifeestim, how come Such a ubiquitous work within a unanimously loved trilogy of movies could perform so poorly in the gaming sphere It's my favorite work of fiction, and yes, I'm a big nerd who has been playing the Wow Cone and MO based on the Lord of the Rings since two thousand seven that's still going What are your expectations for this game? Is Warhorse the right studio to bring some needed quality to this franchise Could lure the Rings work in first person perspective I think there's multiple things. I consider myself a fan of the Lord of the Rings. I often say my dad is a mega fan of Lord of the Rings and was since books came out long before I was born. Um And and all the spin, you know, all the like little spinoffs in the Similarian and all and whatever it's called Simarian, I think it's called all the like, there's like so much, there's so much more than I even knew Plus the stuff Timmy Tolken did when he died and and all the rest haven't talked aboutimmy talking in Timmy Tolkien, Timmy Tolkien. So I think one of the things that Lord of the Rings is so iconic and so complete. that It's hard to wedge your way in On the other hand, the world is so alive and vibrant and full of story that it is hard to believe that you can't figure it out and certain Certain studios have figured out. We've noted and he I think says the EA games back in the day were pretty well respected on PS two. And of course the u Shadow of Mortorr games are People love those games and have like longed for those games to come back So people have gotten it right in the past, but I just wonder, like they're cauing between two things where you gott to find the right story and the right angle. It's very similar to why it seems like that Amazon show just kind of failed. It doesn't, I mean, it's still on, and I guess people like it but no one seems to like it where it's like it just does, it's not right. It's not right And you got to get it right. now I'm not going to be the one that really speaks on that. Mikea would probably be much better than that for me, but It is so on one hand it is a little surprising On the other, it's like, yeah it's not that surprising.'re Tolken's worldld, dude Who do you think you are You know? like, like you really have to think about it in that in that lens sometimes's like you You you don't have the vision. His son didn't have the vision. He had the vision long gone So of course, everything's going to be kind of different Then you think about things like the Peter Jackson movies that are perfect And so I don't know, I don't know. Well, they're adding to those now too Hunt for Gllum. What is that? That's a new Lord of the Rings movie that's coming out. Is it being directed by Andy Cirkcus I don't know. I'm trying to remember, but they're doing new Lord of the Ring movie And there's the Stephen Colbert Lord of the Rings movie that's in production Oh, that's right Oh my God, that's so annoying to be fair, he is apparently like a huge nerd with that shit. So maybe not Yeah, I remember seeing that and like, rolling my eyes at and then I was then Apparently like He's actually like I understand Why they would pick somebody like that? I just finding I find it supremely unlikable So that's like that's a me. I mean, I mean, I don't like a meeer, really. but it's a me proble He's going off the air, by the way. I think the day after like he's done on CBS Did you see him Letterman throwing the furniture off the bill? Yeah, that's an old throwback to Letterman's show. I used to love that shit. Did you ever guys ever watch Letteran when you were young? V minim very minimally. I loved Letterman when I was younger. and I liked Leno as well. But yeah, they would do a thing where they would go onto the roof of the CBS building and just throw shit off of it. So like and I remember, I think they did one with bouncy balls But they like did like they did one with like thousands of bottles and like all like I think they did one with like pinball machines and weird sh. And so I thought that was loved I used to G Lad everyan was like the funniest man I mean, Colbert is a fucking shadow of a shadow of a shadow of a shadow of Letterman and Leno, N not even fucking. to be in that seat. So That's another I mean, all of them compared to Conan, I think are pretty weak Yeah, Ccn for Letterman. Yeah Letterman I liked Leno when I was I like actually When I was younger, I liked L I know a lot, and then I went to Letterman when, you know, my teen years, like in high school and college and stayed there But I realized what I liked about Leno It's just very approachable. It's very friendly It's silly Um, I dug And and of course Carson is the great, you know, the greatest, but but I was I was ten when Carson went away. I don't remember that very well. I watched many and Chris and I think I've reflected on this. I've watched so many of his clips though over the years and how much of a master he is at art of stay out of people's way or feeding them, like when he has Rodney Dangerfield on And Rody be like, I'll tell you Johny myife. And's like,'s like, what's what's going with your wife? Rodney? You know, that kind of thing? And I'm like, Yeahah it's just, it's just so. He just knows. he was great. Yeah But he is like Colbert is like weirdly like He's like he has like the somearillion like in his head somehow like I don't know how it's f. So thatt make m sense to me on some level. Yeah, whatever. I mean, do we gott to do? He'll have plenty of time All right Um We can go through this one quickly. This is a pretty big story, but I don't know that we have much to say about it. Embrace our group, and I promise we would bring this up earlier is separating themselves into two publicly listed companies U and this is planned for calendar year twenty twenty seven. So they're working on this right now We don't have to get into all the business realities. In fact Lars Wingsford, who you guys might remember was the longime CEO and Sepherd of Embracer Group, who's now the chairman of the board. He was kind of the one that was overseeing the company when it was mega expansion heavy. and and then started to kind of fall apart So They say the strategic rationale, quote, inccrease management focus to capture the full potential of the valuable or strategic assets and IPs within the group enable feellllowship entertainment, which we brought up earlier, to accelerate the formation of a group of world class studios with leading publishing and licensing capabilities and allow embracer more flexibility to pursue accreative, but opportunistic bolt on M andA. Oh God, you guys are so stupid, Especially to strengthen its already successful and sizable niches And for example, mobile distribution, retro films, remakes, M rememasters, I can't believe they're even using that term after what they did But here's what the structure of the two companies will be Fellowship Entertainment, quote aims to become an IP led entertainment company built for growth and enduring momentum with some of the world's most beloved franchises at the center as its stewards of the Lord of the Rings and Tomb Raider intntellectual properties As a standalone company, fellowowship enttertainment will have a better structure to maximize the potential of its highly strategic franchises Fellllowship Entertainment will be the home of critically acclaimed studios and companies. For A gam. So that's the Metro series guys, Crystal dynamics, of course the Tb Raider Studio Dan Buster. Those are the guys that do u that island too Dark Horse, of course, the longtime comedic company IdosS Montreal. That's like the DSX studio Fish Labs is like a production studio, internal production studio, flying wild Hog. We know about them. They lasted Evil West Gunfire Games is the studio that did u Why can't I think of it chorus, I want to say? And They do a biger game remnant That's their big game And then Middle Earth Enterprises we know, Red Octane used to be a music studio, but they do other stuff now. and Warhorse is one of those studios. So actually that's an interesting point. It's not really a license. Warhorse is owned. I forgot about that emmbracer bought Warhorse. So that's not even a license, which is great for them because they don't have to split the money. And so those are the studios and The IP that they'll be overseeing include Dark Siders. That's the other one, gunfired to Dark Siders, two and three Dark Siders, Dead Island C came Come Delverance, Metro,emnant the Hobbit, the Lord of the Rings, Tombaidor and many more Fellllowship Etertertainment will report through two business areas, development and publishing and licensing Licensing will focus on dedicated IP management, aiming to transform franchise ownership into recurring revenue streams across game, film, consumer products in additional areas. I mean, that sounds good to me This is where I think it's becoming a Ubisoft like thing. I remember when Ubisoft split into five houses, I was saying they're basically trying to isolate the things that are valuable from the things that aren't and They can easily sync the group that isn't maybe necessarily as valuable to save the rest of the company I don't know that's necessarily what's happening. And I don't think that's their intention is right away, but I think it gives in other words, it segments them from their risk and hope and they can pursue two different courses, but one of them is clearly the better course It says, quote, embracer will be a natural home for proven entrepreneurs and creative talents supported by more efficient structure with enhanced governance, tighter cost control and disciplined capital allocation This will be combined with optionality from structural initiatives, including a continued focus on profitability and M andA. drive shareholder value, I just What is wrong with these guys Like what do they what do they not understand about what happened to them. Anyway The studio will include the following T are the company will include the following teams aspire. Beam Dog, crazy Labs, Deca, Dmiurge, DPI, limited run, milestone, play on see HQ Nordic, which is all of their studios and subsidiaries, there are thirty five of them Trip wire and Vvertigo games Intellectual properties include owned IP such as Arizona Sunshine, Biomutant, destroy humans, Desperatos, Gothic, Killing Foor, Kingdoms of Omollar MX versus ATV, Reanimal, Ride, screamer, Titan questu, Refest, and many more IP. as well as licenses such as hot wheels Unleashed and SpongeBob Squarepants. Embrace your operations will report through four business areas PC and console, mobile, enttertainment and services, and other So I mean, that's not a bad group of studios nor IP, but it's clear which one is the is the important one and which one is' it? Does't you have anything you want to add think so Uh I'm mostly interested in them and the Lord of the Ring stuff that was connected earlier But Well, right. And what's interesting about what wasn't it they acquired the Lord of the Rings license at some point where Was it Nikon No, it was someone else published the shire Well, no, they published Shire. The Gollm game I think was outside of emmbracer, right? That was Dataic Right. So I. So now it's kind of like, you gott to give them a chance I think to see what they can do because they haven't really done it yet Yeah and they and to embracers credit they have released really good games like not all of them, but they've released some great games. Doub,ead islands is awesome Yeah. I just don't understand this obsession with M andA Have you seen interest rates Dude, I saw mortgage rates were like at six and a half percent. like Now is not the time Lars Chris, do you have any anything you'd like to add N really I mean, I'm looking at the Business stuff like this is always like, all right, we'll see how this shakes up You know, like I don't really know What to make of any of this? likeike you said it is clear like which one is the prime focus and which one is kind of like the B team, so to speak. But I don't know, man it's selfishly like, personally, I' kind I'm kind of more interested in the weird the weird bee stuff than I am and like, I mean Tbaider I like and you know, Lord of the Rings obviously cool. Metro obviously No man I like me some dere humans. Yeah, yeah, they use the terminology to that to that point, Chris, and this will please you. They use the term with what will become the new embracer is A slash AA So they're not even trying to make AA games, which which I think is good. I think It's like being it's like being at a table in Vegas though and you'll just spin out if you don't make big bets can't really sit there forever and play, you know, hundred dollar hands at some point you got to play a thousand dollars hand. N not that I would do any of that s of stuff. I'm just saying like, you want to w big, you got to If you want to release a twenty million dollars AAbleA game, then understand you'll makety million dollars and that's c Um Yeah. so and there are other IPs. So if you guys I put another link in there, we won't really get into it, but Laars Wingford released a letter to the like an open letter to the board or from the board s it's really interesting because he goes into a lot of shit that they don't get into in the in the announcement, But they they really he goes into it. They own so much shit, dude Saints Row, Legacy of Cain, Deus X, Red Faction, Thief, Tim splitters You know like more they even on the mask which is kind of weird.'s so we that's very od They've gotone and bought like obviously they they got Tomb Raider from square and they u A lot of other things from other people. And obviously, their absorption of deeep silver gave him access to like Homefront. Dead Island, which they've already exploited. there's just a lot of I promise here, I just think they're too big. It's what we identified when they weren't there like one hundred and thirty teams att one point. it's like the reality is that like you really can'tperate like this. N only is it It's an interesting idea, but you're just going compete with each other You're gonna be releasing games like every other week. You know, like you can't You can't do that. I mean, realistically thirty five teams taking five years each Not even that. thirty five teams taking three years each You have a game like every three and a halfks or something I don't know how that works for you. Again, this is a square x problem. So good. It's good that they're tal about andA. They've learned their lesson, it seems Finally Sircana data for sales obviously from Matt Piscatella over on Blue Sky who Is analyst at Sercana Now there is an important before we get into the numbers, there is an important point here because the numbers are fundamentally different now. Phil wrote about this and said, Hey Coin and crew What are your thoughts in Sircana changing their publicly available monthly sales charts to a projected top ten list It is somewhat timely considering your hilarious discourse with one Smash JT a few months back reggarding games that are missing from the charts I'm of two minds about it I think overall I prefer having a list using real hard data with the understanding that some publishers and self published des do not share. That said as the world of publishing and self publishing blurs and true I indie games are selling millions of copies, I can understand Wh they would have want to adopt their formula So it is true If you look now, it says includes digital sales projections This is the first time as I understand that Circana or NPD as it used to be called back in the day. has ever had projections At the very least, you would have incomplete data that didn't Dinter incomplete data, let's say that Didn't give you the full picture, but didn't obscure what was true Right So a Nintendo product, for instance, it would say very clearly, doesn't include digital copies. and you would understand that There's no way, for instance, that Pokemon could have been the second or third best selling game. It must have been the first, but they just can't say that On the other hand, the projections could be valuable in that Um, What is their methodology? That's kind of the big thing. They know the numbers. Mbe they have an insane level of methodology That is pretty accurate, but I'm not crazy about it. to be honest With that said, here are the sales numbers for the month april twenty twenty six period by the way, reporting is april fifth to M through may second This is important because we kept saying that Sars would only be counted for one day, but it was actually counted for three. On that chart, Saros was the ninth best selling game of the month in the United States, which is not great, but not bad Number one was Tamadaci life living the dream with projections. And Mike is obsessed with that game. so that's not a huge surprise. Pragmata number two, we know that game's already sold a few million copies. Crimson Desert is number three falling from number one. MLB the show twenty six is number four, windows which would have otherwise not been shared with its sales data because Kraken doesn't share its data with Sircana necessarily. That's number five Copia is six Superario Galaxy and Super Mario Galaxy To is Seven Starfield Based on its release on PS five is eight upp from two hundred eighteenth the month before Saro set number nine and then Mario Kart worldorld at ten. I think what we're going to learn based on these projections is that Nintendo is going to be much more present now because they were kind of unfairly treated, and I don't know why they want to do that to themselves. It's especially weird because they are the most transparent with their numbers That was the thing that always made confuseed me. Anyone who's ever read their financials knows you they talk about their numbers constantly. and you can go to their website right now and they arere like You can go in and see like how much the fucking balloon fight sell 's just weird like, it's weird that they're like,ah, we' not going to say you look like a dominant company when you do shit like this So That's the way it looks. yearar to date, Requiem is the best selling game of the year in the United States, followed Crimson desesert with MLB the show from Saniego Studio at number three. Arc graders, by the way, is number eight on that list, which is especially interesting because it is based again on revenue that is a forty dollar game U let's see. PlayStation five. Hardware spending is down year over year, thirty percent, notot a huge surprise there. And PlayStation five came in second. It was bumped out of the first spot in both revenue and unit sold. The revenue number is less interesting because the PS five is so much more expensive than the Sitch to at this point Um PlayStation five's lifetime installed base is tracking two percent ahead Playsttation four. in the United States So that's pretty interesting. and that is not adjusted for money that is install base And I think there might be some other interesting stuff here. Let me see. I guess that's basically it. I don't think he he usually shares, ye, he didn't do with this one. He usually shares platform by platform numbers but we didn't do this month. Any here, stick out to you The thing that sticks out to me, which is not PlayStation related is just how dominant Tomodachi life living the dream is. I knew this game was Big I'm starting to realize it's very, very big. and it's funny because it's It's kind of a game that would be a mark for me But I I played some of the three Ds version and I didn't love it. I played some of the demo and I was like, H maybe. But clearly it's a bit of a phenomenon for the switch and switch to audience. It's only a switch one game, which is what's interesting. So people are playing it S switch one a game on their switch too So I want to check it out at some point But I'm not sure if Ill like it. Uh that's it for the news We can get into to what we're playing now. Do you guys want to take another break or do you want to just roll I'm good to roll. V good to roll. let's get to where we're playing. I don't have too much to say I platinumed Mouse PI, That's my two hundred ninth platinum. That would have almost been my last one. U and so that I got that out of way. That was a little frustrating because the trophies were broken for a while, but it was a pleasure to go back into the game play, you know play through a lot of it again. It's it's so good. I highly, highly recommend it. thirty dollars is a fucking steal for game It's just so beautif And then I started Pragmata, as we know on the stream ironically getting hacks during it not I'm not very far in it. It says I'm twenty five percent through the game on PSN. That seems incredible since I' played for like two hours. It's like how short is g? I just don't know if that's actually accur But uh I really like it. I'm like really impressed by it. It's really good It's so novel and fresh. And I think it's beautiful.s it's fun to play. The environments are interesting. The characters are interesting. The characterization, incredibly Japanese You know what I really love is the start screen of then like sitting it is a good screen. Yeah, it's like I'm really quite en with enamored with it. So that's what I'm playing. Chris, It says you hear you're playing Saros Anything you'd to say that? I'm at like the very end. I'm pretty sure I'm at like the last boss hitting a bit of a wall because I'm very stubborn in the weapons that I use. I know that there are u Pbably damage like weapons that do more damage or whatever. but like the game's like I don't know. The game's kind of easy in a lot of ways, so like I'm trying to give myself I want to beat it with specific weapons. just to make it a little bit harder. So like, I mean, not much to say, I'm still kind of Hammering away at that last boss. I like it still I don't know what's going on But like I like it I think I get what's going on. Yeah It is a little bit. I got to like, I want to sit that's why we're not to record this week and we were going to record tomorrow actually I lost like two and half days this week, so I'm just like totally behind and everything. but I need to sit with it's like what we do with control. I need to sit and really read the in game shit and like really understand because that's what I'm really playing for. And I think that' that's part of what Saros makes Saro suffer for me is like The story and the ambience are cool, but it's really about the gameplay and it's too much. In my opinion, you know, it's a lot. But I mean, I like it still.m I like the boss. I like the boss encounters a lot. I think they're really fun. I think they're really beautiful. I think there's like a big U spectacle aspect of them that's like really, really enthralling to take part in Uh, but Not until that should be done with it within the next like two or three days, I would imagine Dustin Marathon Yeah Big news. Cris and I early on said that we wouldn't talk about our marathon playing unless there were major updates And while there hasn't been a major update to the game, there's been a major update to my progress in the on Saturday. I completed the compiler, the final boss of Marathon And it was really hard. It was so fucking hard to do this. It is one of the hardest things I have ever done. Interesting. And I'm not even necessarily saying boss itself, which Once you know what you're doing, like once we got it down The fight that we did it wasn't that bad It's actually pretty trivial Now the three fights before that while we were figuring it out U, he he totally creamed us multiple times. Like it was bad. U So my the take that I wanted to put out there about marathon. Now that so I've played it a little bit since then, a few hours, but My steam player time is two hundred and twelve hours. And my take is' great It's if you The compiler fight is hard It takes too much investment to get to it, you're saying to get to it The process I would agree. Here's why I say that I have no problem with there being end game content that is very, very hard and hard to achieve But as I'm looking at Marathon on my Steam account, or if you bring it up on PlayStation The image I see is literally the compiler It is the aspirational content is to go and fight this guy. And it's also, I mean, I'm not a super big lorehead necessarily, but in talking to pork Poncho, it's like it's a key part of the seasonal story is beating the compiler And I just think that While I want crazy hard aspirational content, I think that specific fight should should be easier to do And they are changing some things And by I say easer, I'll I don't want people to immediately zone out, but like You have to do All six vaults In order to do those vaults, you need to find keys. The vault six key in particular, I have seen in my two hundred hours, I have picked up one of them Cork somehow managed to get two of them, and we stole one from a team That's how fucking rare these Pys are And at least one person on your team has need to have done all six. And maybe that makes it a little easier, but it's like, I'm not doing it that way. Right do I want to have done all six vaults, which I did then like the mer the the compiler fight itself You need to have this thing called a DNA access card. And if you've done all six vaults, you've probably gathered up some of them to do to do that, which we did if some people saw our stream. I think Poncho had like, Eight of them We burn through all eight on that stream So in order to get more of them Go back to running volts to get more of those DN access cards. and there's no guarantee Get one in some of the earlier easier vaults And the harder vaults, maybe you'll get one, but again, you're in the cryo archive, which is infamously known as the Lose Everything Factory. so Uh, yeah. As someone who has done it I think it is it requires too much investment and it's Prob I mean, that's been the ongoing conversation about Marathon is like, is it too hardcore? And they've already announced like some of the season two stuff, like a PVE mode is coming and we've talked a little bit about that and that's all exciting U But with all it said I loved it. I loved every second of it. I'm glad, well, I shouldn't say I loved every second of it. That's not true. I didn't love every second of it, but I'm glad I did it It felt like a huge accomplishment And Marathon is so exciting from seeing what they're going to do with it going forward because I think I don't say a major pivot is happening, but certainly it's going places they did not expect because of peopleeople have received it. Yeah. That's the marathon update. I can take it easy on the game for a couple weeks. I'll still be playing here and there, but That was it was very important for me to finish that before. Season two begin Yeah, I'm going to try and do it. Like I dude, I I have three hundred hours in this game technically between between my time in the alphas playaytests and Playsttation and PC. It's just like it's I still have not even come close. I don't think I've done this the sixth vault either. so like I'm There's no reason why I shouldn't have seen this way now Like it's it's kind of crazy. And I do think that's insane Like they can they they could tune that a little bit more. So it's like It should be a hard fight and it should be hard to do, but it shouldn't be like, brother, hundred and two hundred and fifty plus hours into this. and I'm not even close we are we doing Yeah. and I feel like it's one of those things I think that I feel conf well, I don't want to say I feel confident I could do it again. They've already changed things. like I think DNA access cards can now appear on like oututpost So that helpful, but it's like part of our problem when we streamed. On Fridays, we were playing at one PM on a Friday And it was with the absolute sweatiest players I have ever played with So we only had success when we did it on a Saturday night where the player pool was much larger that's also, I mean are probably a problem they did not expect or we're not hoping to happen Yeah we We're hoping to avoid I they did update it. There's a lot of new stuff in the game now that is actually really cool, but The big thing is going to be June fifth So I'll save Anything that I have to say about marathon until then I'm still playing way more than I should. right, That's where we're playing Let's get into some six questions, comments concerns, thought and ideas fromrom the audience, some of these comments. We've already heard from you a bunch throughout the show. but we'll reach six more of these. O course, You could support us on patreon patreon. com slash lastash Emedy to get your inquiries onto the show. You submit them via the post on the news feeed each week For this show and all the other shows are the thads go live on Wednesdays and are deleted on Thursdays, so you have about twenty four hours. Turd Ferguson wrote in said Hey CDC So Shuhee Yoshida posted a photo of himself at PlayStation Japan HQ this week. What could this mean W the Sony Japan brrass back in charge of SIE, could a shoehay return be possible This could be the video game version of Michael Jordan returning to the NBA after a two year stint playing baseball This would easily become the most popular decision Playstation has made in the past ten years they brought Sue back I I Jeffy and I talked about this like that would be an awesome move. I really just don't think he's interested Now, I would love to be wrong I just think he's older. He's made an enormous amount of money And it's a lot You know, then again, his kids are older He you know, like maybe dude, I think that would be so sick. I just don't think that that's really going to happen. It probably didn't mean anything at all. And I'm sure he knows a lot of people there and he can probably go visit whenever he wants, but I don't think he's coming back Whver You got do you think otherwise? doesn? You said exactly what I was thinking that I don't think it's worth overanalyzing the photo. Yeah But It's a fun, it's a nice dream. It would be I would I don't usually like like dreamy sort of things like that where it's like, do this crazy thing but I'm like, actually, that would be awesome But but I don't I don't think so. Eespecially because like why would he go back to help In some way, it's like, you threw me out. So yeah, maybe they went in and they they cloned his brain into an AI C not just use that We're going to have Mark Cerny coming out in a she He skin suit ight, weve built this realistic Shuhee Yushida Squint Eastood Rad in Is said Howdy feellas Sorry for the long ride in, but I hoped you might find it thought provoking In a previous episode, you discussed the PSN digital game settlement largely through the lens of consumer choice, but I think there's another angle that may be more important, vendor choice Currently, Sony prohibits publishers and developers from selling PS five digital games through third party retailers using game keys. That means developers and publishers are effectively forced sell digital copies exclusively through the PSN rather than choosing alternative marketplaces It's like if Sony operated a physical store but also prohibited publishers from selling physical copies of their games through places like Gam Stop or Walmart It's less a consumer choice issue and more Sony restricting where vendors are allowed to sell their products Sony would still receive its standard platform royalty either way, so preventing other digital storefronts or key resellers doesn't seem necessary to preserve their revenue share. It feels more like control over the marketplace itself By allowing publishers and developers to sell digital copies through other retailers, those sales could happen at wholesale prices, creating actual retail competition between storefronts That can naturally lead to better pricing and promotions for consumers without cutting Sony out of its platform fee. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on whether framing the issue around vendor restrictions changes the conversation I don't know if you guys agree, but I don't quite follow the argument in that There has to be a in this particular situation, you would have to have a cache, and I mean CA CHE of games that you would buy from Sony and then sell however you want it That's the so If what you're saying is, What you're saying is Sony wouldn't suffer under that situation and it's like, yes they would because Now whether or not you give a shit about that is another example, but it's like, well The game at seventy dollars, they get thirty percent of it. Now, if what you're saying is like could the company buy ten thousand digital sle, like digital copies with alphan numumeric codes to retrieve them Paying Sony their thirty percent on the seventy dollars and then selling them for whatever they want. because that's different. And I could give a show less about that But that doesn't isn't the way it works. The codes manufactured first of all are always free or either put on placards or whatever that would go inside a physical ition of a game Um you know, obviously when you're buying cards and stuff, that's different when you were able to buy aloc card digital copies of the games, but I'm not sure I really understand your argument because this the The marketplace isn't disallowing anyone from selling their games elsewhere and that's not what Sony's doing You can sell your game however you want and any other platform. I just sold a game on every platform available So does this track for you, Dustin? I don't really quite understand the argument, but I know you're more in this space and I wonder if maybe' misunderstanding it I wish I knew more about how this works, specifically when I think about a site like Steam where it's like you You really have three options. to buy a game on Steam in that you can buy it directly from them You can buy it through a third party party site, something like Green Man gaming sells steam keys. and these are Totally legit. U normal steam keys And then there's kind of more of a gray market something like G two A or CD keys or something where Oftentimes those codes are cheaper through, to my understanding, like regional pricing variations. So it's like O on one of those sites, you'd buy like a worldwide key that is a lower price because it's not intended for the US market or something. And that's a bit of a gray area fooccusing in on a site like Green Man gaming. I don't know how their business model works or how they buy games from Steam. What's the steam cut on those I am really not Sure So In terms of what Squint here is proposing I I don't know. I do think that in terms of like selling the digital games on cards in stores. I mean, we already discussed that. Then I'm like, yeah, I think that was an important marketplace for them to be a part of, but Sony wants to be the only place that you go to buy digital games. They want to have that level of control as point it out. So that's why but they did it. But doesn't it make sense that they do I mean, from more than a capitalistic point of view, Like they lose all of the control at that point, don't they? Because if you were What you're saying like I think what he's saying and I think what you're saying is like These third parties can sell the game at any price. And Sony would be forced into thirty percent of the price chosen outside of their walls And that to me doesn't wash. Like that doesn't actually make sense. That's why I was saying like With the steam codes, for instance, that are on that Green manan game or whatever I wonder what those are. You know what I mean? Like are they are they purchased wholesale discount And then Steam still gets the cut of the original price. Because otherwise, why would they allow that It doesn't really make any sense. He uses this analogy of u It's kind of funny because he's using the analogy of like, it would be like them not allowing Gam stop or Walmart to sell games. And I'm like, No, it's not. It would be it would be like going into Game stop and trying to buy it through PlayStation network Like two different places You know, and So I wonder if it is I woered in other words, Dustin, say the game's fifty dollars. Right? So thirirty percent of fifty is fifteen. So The cut of your game would be fifteen dollars gross for Sony Would Sony sell all of the codes So again, so you turned out ten say like I want to buy ten thousand codes We'll pay you fifteen dollars for each of them. thenen like whatever happens, you're unaffected. You made your money. Then we sell them for whatever we want and we cut into our own margin. to me is different But I don't know exactly how that works. And I've always been it kind of been confused about that because it's like compelling, it's like compelling them to take whatever price you want, but I'm like, that's not what Walmart does You know what I mean It's more complicated than this. Yeah. I think What do you think Chr I really I'm kind of in the same boat as you guys where it's just like I just this has always been an avenue of game purchasing that I've just I've never really interacted with because it just seemed So slap dash and like kind of like like I just didn't really understand it. I like, why would I Why would I get a digital key from anywhere but the place that I'm shopping? Like why? Yeah, exactly. I just never it just seemed like an extra step to me which like for me, my value is What I value is the convenience. You know, like if if I can avoid An click through or another sign in a separate thing I'll do it So like to me, it's just like it never really made sense to go to those other people. it's like,h, its fivellars off It's just like that's o. This is my five dollars I'm spending in time and convenience by like not having to deal with any of that. Right Like I's it's just truthfully for me, it's just never been It's just never been a facet. So like in Greenman gaming, all these other places, like I have literally zero experience. I think I might have gotten the game key code. on Amazon a long ass time ago, and I don't even remember why I did' it. I think I was just like curious about it And it worked, but I just remember being like, oh, this really is it's just kind of an extra step. I don't really I just never did it again. I can't even remember what I bought I wonder if I could probably find it in my history, but But yeah, it's just never been a thing for me. So like I don't even know The intricacies of like what he's talking about necessarily, I've just got no insight at all into that space I have some more info about the steam Heys is quite surprising to me. And actually the person to really that would know is bed about this stuff I'm reading from a Steam commommunity post, but I'm verifying the information through actual like SteamWorks documentation and I believe that it is true. says Valve simply does not take any cut from keys that are sold outside of steam Sites like Greenan Gaming buys directly from publishers generating keys through their Steamworks developer interface, which subsequently allows lowering the prices. That doesn't make pers make a better margin And I looked Okay, this is from SteamWorks documentation. Steam keys are single use unique alph numeric codes that customers can activate on Steam to add a product license to their account. Steam keys are a free service. We provide to developers as a convenient tool to help you sell your game other stores and at retail or provide for free beta testers or press slash influenceers. Yeah, I don't get it I don't understand what they get out of that good will, lot of goodwill. Certainly. But I don't blame companies for not wanting to do that That's nonsense. So So to follow Squints For example, it's like, no, it would be like going into the Walmart getting something and not paying Walmart. L's like what? Like you came into our store, you bought it from our shelves. It exists in our ecosystem, and then you just bought it from someone else. That's insane I't bl I'm sorry I don't blameony for that. I don't really blame them even for taking it's what Chris was saying. It's like You know, when you go into target and you see all the switch games or the Xbox games and there're like with the you know, on the shelf the cards or whatever and it's like, well, why would Sony want to do that?'s it's what Chris said. It's like Just go buy the game on PSN You don't need a code Yeah So's like doesn't make any sense So curiosity, I went back and I looked and I found it, I found it onctober in October of twenty nineteen. I bought a PS four digital code. For Destiny two Shadow Keep Interesting No no, it's my only game purchase on Amazon. And that was the year that they stopped doing it, I think Yeah you probably did that for PC. Oh no, you would' have played that PC for conso, right Yeah it was piss for. Maybe you had a gift card Maybe something. Maybe I bought it for a You know what? Maybe I bought it for a friend of mine. I could have seen that back in those days, I was just trying to get everybody in. But u I don't remember the context of it was forever ago But it's funny. It's interest But but that's Amazon. You know, I don't I've never I've never done like the other sides. It's incredibly cool in pro consumer that they do that I just think that that's kind of suicidal Like it's Well clearly it hasn't been for Steve. but they don't have the they don't have the fixed costs that everyone else does either to be fair. They're choosing to get the hardware, but they don't have to Three hundred people or something that worked there That's the size of one of Sony's teams You know, um So I just think it's they can play a different game It doesn't really matter. They're in I mean to they are working the capitalist system to the an of degree, which is great. They make enormous amounts of money. Their headcount is really low, their fixed costs are low and they can just do whatever they want Now they do And everyone else has the kind deal with it, but that's the nature. It reminds me the race to the bottom that Apple employed with mobile game pricing, it's like, yeah, unfortunately, this is the kind of what has to happen ike this is a member of the market, and it's the same thing so. I think it's cool. it's certainly undeniably pro consumer and incredibly friendly, but I don't blame the companies for saying we don't really want to do that. We or we literally can't afford to do that Because imagine this, Dustin Like They don't take a cut of it S I did that for Saintslayer And I'm like Buy Saint Slayer for ten dollars on steam or buy it from us for five dollars and go play it on steam. Now we all make less money doing that, but they make nothing And I don't know what I just it's an unfathomable to me don't get that Well, there are There is documentation in here like Steam keys should not be given away for free if you aren't offering also offering the same deal It's okay to run a discount for Steam keys on different stores at different times as long as you plan to give a comparable offer to steam customers within a reasonable amount of time So there are rules. There are strings attached to these in order to protect themselves from like us selling Saintslayer codes for steam for five dollars instead of ten or something. in perpetuity. Levi bore Dt wrote in It's greetings from a dejected Sabers fan a years ag I' sorry for los by way, we werere rooting for A few years ago, it seemed the industry couldn't go more than a month without some sort of studio acquisition or consolidation Recentently however, it seems like the acquisitions have almost entirely stopped become l h ee profile What do you think is the cause of this? It's funny because we brought this up during the embracer thing and I didn't even think of this question, but Um, There's multiple reasons for it. Money is not cheap anymore. If you're leveraging in some way borrowed money Kind of nice and even free and even discounted. to do it with borrowed money if rates are really low Because inflation could even erode away That interest rate and you will get a better price long term on an item that you think could last You know, studio, for instance, you'd want to buy Um money is no longer cheap. so that and it hasn't been for a while. So that's one major part of it. The second major part of that is COVID is long done and this it really we we were reflected on this many times in the past, but like the amount of buy in around the industry on how this this burgeoning of game interest was going to be permanent was so miscalculating. And just off base And I think a lot of purchases and a lot of consolidation happen on the back of that too That's the kind of stuff that also drove up costs. That's why Bungie cost so much. becausecause a lot of people were interested. The rumor was that Microsoft was interested in So There's that as well. And then I think the third reason why M andA has stopped is because I think people realize that games take so long now to make that it's probably safer to be and a licensed second party agreement. publisher with a developer, then have to buy the cow and then incur the cost of the cow. And this is what I keep saying, as games take longer and longer to make, I said this actually in the Alyssa Marcantte interview reiterating my stance that gamees should be made more like movies in the AA space It's like it's kind of unrealistic to expect these people to pay. likeike yeah, we have to pay our writers, even though there's really nothing for them like, I guess they can kind of dddle around or we have animators on staff that we need to do this and that like There are high costs involved in buying these whole teams that are soup to nuts operations. In other words, you don't need to go outside necessarily to get help. They do everything expxpensive. You don't want to buy that I've been saying this over and over again, you make deliberate organic acquisitions and that's it And I would also make the argument as I've been making the last few weeks that you can even make an argument that Sony' first party might be too big at this point. because they can't manage all of them effectively, and you really want to invest in expensive AA games So maybe you want one maybe you have eight studios or ten studios that release a game every four or five years with a cadence of one per two quarters So I don't know if that makes sense. I don't have anything want to say, but that's where I feel like that's what I think has slowed things down materially and It's almost in that order, I think, too. The cheapness of the money, the necessity of consonsolidation based on trends And then u The idea of having to pay for all of it. I would imagine Sony is majorly spooked about M andA. I't think that they I don't think they've acquired their last team by any stretch of the imagination. I am very curious when they will do it again. Remember, there were years in between the closures after Vita until they bought teams again. because they got scared When they had to close evolution and zipper And Liverpool and so on and so forth. So I don't think they've purchased their last team, but I wonder where their heads at And by the way, Sony' shut down other things too. What was the thing they had? It was like an animation thing that they shut down recently too, that was like a hugeal Apparently that they had acquired. Oh Mondo something or picto something I don't know what the fuck. Oh, yeah Billy, but not so talented wrote in and said sub feellas It seems like PlayStation will soon start showing player analytics for specific games just like Steam does. I see a lot of people talking about the loser grifters who will use it for hate, but I think more data is always good Fuck the haters, they'll hate regardl Do you think PlayStation will take more features from Steam I'd like to see both a discovery feature for game curation and the ability to ignore games to make searching for new stuff easier. It is my hope that like PS six is going to be a highly consolidated we use that word before, but like a very consolidated offering wherein you don't really have to leave it And that is what steam is I said that when we really got became engaged with Steam with Sain Slayer in particular that I was even more surprised by the robustness of the toolset your forums, your game help. The ability to communicate directly, reviewing, all everything is on there media in terms of screenshots and videos, people being able to share things There needs to be a cogent object like that around every game on PSM and Maybe PS six will have that. I don't know. I would like I'd also like to see them wholesale steal from steam as well ris What do you think about this? D did you see that they're starting to play around with the numbers, the player numbers on PSN, specifically for the top ten games? And it's based not on concurren, but on monthly or I'm sorry on weekly players It's pretty interesting Yeah, I don't I don't really know how I feel about it. I think it could be interesting. It's it really is unfortunate that so much of u It's unfortunate that so many cool tools are viewed through the lens of how they might be abused I get why U, But I don't know, I think more transparency is cool. I think more transparency is good and interesting for the people who are good faith enough to really care about it And so like I don't know. if people are worried about it online, I mean, that's just is how it is, I guess I do think they might be opening themselves up to shit that they really don't need to, but I also think that's cool Like it's cool that they would I don't reallyind it What do you think? Dustin I have no idea why they would do this because I mean as Chris was saying, like When it's like, o, horizon Hunters gathering isn't Look at how the player numbers dropped off from last week to this week. It's like why you're opening yourself up to that But U I think it's neat to see the info. so I don't really have much to say that Chris didn't say. It's it was It was surprising to see that from my perspective. I'm not I'm really curious The What the thought process is and like, o, this would this information will benefit us in one way or another. Not sure. Yeah, I think less is more from Sony's perspective in this regard. and I wonder it is part of a beta, so I wonder if they'll actually remo it. It' it's not They're not doing what Steam does. Well first of all, there's important thing. Steam's not doing shit People are scraping Steam's API and Steam is allowing it. I mean, that's that's the thing that It's the same thing with PlayStation. like I say, like every once in a while, I don't think really happens anymore, but like things would break where like you can no longer scrape trophies and then people would figure out how to do it again U So like you could get the PSN profiles and everything working. These companies kind of choose to let people in, and what I think Valve has done is actually kind of clever wherein they've let people access this really bespoke data, but take no credit for it So like it's not their problem And I wonder if major companies have kind of tried to press them and be like, you could just close this It would be really simple for you to not allow this information to be accessed It more data is good, but I think people don't understand all the time.' what I was saying about Saintslay when someone was making fun of us for trapping like fif concurrents on steam and I'm like dude, that's like huge for us I don't think you would like, don't what you don' know what you're looking at or what you're talking about You know, um For our standards, that's wonderful success comparable to our previous games So I think people look at these numbers and have these kind of universal expectations for things that don't really make any sense You can use that as an argument of like, well, that's not anyone's problem with those people and those who listen to them, I guess I do think I would say that the almost undeniably in a way that the exposure of steam numbers have been a net negative. for everything because I think it even scares people away from trying shit I think it scares people away from giving things a chance I think it scares people away from like you know or dont it's self reinforcing Game is big I'll play game isn' big, I won't play. but if you't know what would you have play Right? Like that's kind of an interesting thing And so I don't really I'm a data guy. I love the data. I think it's great, but I do understand the destructive nature of it as well. And I think it's the evidence of that is everywhere So But then again, maybe people would argue it like, well, why wouldn't we want to know that? And then I'm, okay,airough, then why does'team itself tell you? They know that it's not necessarily good John Tom Black Rodden said if PS six is close to PS five and Bomb Bill of material I've learned over the last year Or somehow even cheaper for Sony to manufacture, Does it make any sense for Sony to keep selling PS five once PS six launches Normally the previous generation sticks around for a few years as a cheaper option, but that only makes sense if the old consoolle is actually cheaper And if the new console has an obvious reason to exist I'm not sure either will be true this time, especially for casuals PSX ended up being a more economical box for Sony while also feeling like the most incremental console upgrade we have ever seen T a casual consumer, there may not be a big unique upgrade feature couldould or should Sony do something unprecedented and intentionally wind down PS fives stock before PS six launches. making PS six a full market replacement right away Not here is the more expensive next gen new box and next to the cheaper old one, but more like this is the next PlayStation now With generations mattering less, games spanning hardware longer and libraries carrying forward Maybe keeping PS five around would only make the transition messier. A PS six plays the same ecosystem of games better, costs Sony roughly the same or less to make and can sit at a similar price point then ending PS five's hardware might not really be much of a loss My vantful of nuns loves the show. I don't. Now, I think the problem, I think, is the ability to manufacture sufficient machines Um So I don't think you could turn it off before like right before and I don't think you could turn it off at the launch. But I think you could turn it off Once you're confident You can make the new machine sufficiently Because the last thing you would want, for instance is to say we're going to stop making this thing and then you Bomb becomes too expensive for this machine. you're like, Oh, we got to kinda Go back to the old machine. D't have you considered this Yeah, what's going to be really interesting about this next generation is that Will it be like this one or which was very unique in that the previous generations stuck around for I mean, it's still around it's not it's not until this year where're fininally getting a call of duty game that's not coming out on the previous generation is how long PS four has been hanging around A lot of that was though due to the situations in which This generation launched with the PS five and the availability of it It wasn't necessarily that COVID kept the PS four around, but it certainly got the ball rolling where it's like, okay, well, They're not available and now people you've kind of fed the PS four audience and now they're kind of just staying there. It's like It started the PS four sticking around had like momentum. to it because of the launch of the PS five So now if the Bill of Materials is somehow cheaper and one what Tom speculates maybe The PlayStation six is a cheaper box in general than certainly it would make sense to really try to push people over to the new device because I wonder I I think ideally, that's what Sony would have wanted to happen with PlayStation five. They didn't necessarily want people sticking around with their super old hardware for most of the next generation. They wanted people to move over. but The situations around the console didn't make that financial sense for them to do that. So I wonder if we'll be going back to the traditional playbook will say for PlayStation six and that it will be tried to be Moved on to uh, not immediately but in a much quicker pace you, Chr I don't know, man. I think it's I think the lack of availability on PS five as a core of PS five is a core reason why so many people stuck around with the PS four. I think it is like largely overstated, I think think PS There's still a bunch of people on BS three The reality is Things got so expensive that ignoring that massive audience was no longer viable or reasonable to do And that's not gettingting better That's that's like if anything, we're getting further and further away from the next console being the thing that you have to get I think what's more important to Sony is that you're in their ecosystem at all And I think that's kind of like the new like the daily active users, like the, you know, that's what matters And so I think it almost makes a little bit more sense to just be like, hey, listen, There really kind of isn't that big of a reason to get involved with our next machine, So let's just make it a stupid premium box. and just keep the PS five at like a lower price point or like discount, whatever. becausecause the important thing is that you just get And the enthusiasts that they want people they're always going to bite You know, they're always going to be like, what's the shiny new tech U what's available, how cool is it? how shiny is it What's the unboxing experience like there's always going to be those people. thoseose people keep everything afloat really So They're not going to not do it But I just the idea of just like, oh, let's force everybody to buy the new machine, I guarantee people just won't If they, if they't want it, they don't want it It kind of is D the fact that people are still on PS four It's kind of wild And I don't think And the PSI is an even better machine. So I actually think it's going to be harder for people to get people off of PS five and on a PS six than it was to get people off PS four on a PS five. I just think Economic realities tie into that. I think the diminishing returns of new machines and the technology that we can visibly see as an obvious improvement tie into that I think The fact that these older machines are now ively interacting with the online space in a way that they didn't necessarily interact previously You know, it was easy to move on to PS two because you weren't sell games digitally on PS two. You know, like even that lasted a while, you know Yeah. so So I don't know. I think this idea that everything's going to go back to normal I think it's just going to keep going in this direction. I think there's even a case to be made that there really won't be any PS six exclusives. I think there will just be games that are on PS six that are clearly clearly better on PS six than they are on PS five or just that offer like, hey, here's like you know, one hundred twenty four K you know, or something like that. Even that's kind of like maybe a little too ambitious, but like an uncompromised version of of a of a Playsttation as opposed to, you know, you could stay on PS five and you can continue to play your Fortnite and continue to play your you know, wind rows or you know, whatever, just Keep buying expansions, keepe spending money in the store on PS plus and elsewhere. But u I see a reality almost where the next machine is simply a an enthusiast machine, not to the same degree that the next Xbox will be because that'll be like way more optional But I see a future where like the next playlaysttation is just craz expensive and the hook will be. that handheld kind of synergy. that they're going to plan with that with with whatever that whatever that module is or whatever that skew is. And that'll be the big deciding factor, but like, I don't know, man Even that kind of implies something, doesn't it? Like the fact that like they're planning a portable kind of thing to go along with it or at least tied to it in some way kindind of implies that they're not necessarily like that game's going have to run on a portable machine You know, like, I don't know like everything about like the rumors going on with the next generation like seems to imply to me that like that We're not going back to the way things work And it's just going to get more and more like this Liam Need has the final inquy for us Greeting, sacred gents My question revolves around the fine tuning of difficulty in video games and what degree of challenge we seek from our favorite pastime. For example I felt like Housemark didn't know how best balance Saros and left too much choice to the player If I started at a newly unlocked biome, I got destroyed in two hits and if I did a complete run through previously unlocked levels, I comically melted most bosses in an instance with my trusty Crossbow Let's not even mention the modifiers. Am I meant to use them Colin, you might have great that was a big question for me too's like, I don't know what they'reinking with modifiers. It feels like you are meant to use them. Colin, you might have a greater insight with your work with Lilimo. How do deevs find the right difficulty balance that gives the player a level of satisfaction that doesn't trivialize proceedings, but also avoids controllers being lodged in the nearest wall Thanks for everything that you do all the best to Dustin and Holly and keep on popping those pllatemum trophies. The reality is that u I think most companies, most studios focus on this quite a bit and often get it wrong. And I think one of the big things about dynamic just hot fixing a game, nonetheless, patching it is like you can kind of fix these things on the fly based on feedback that you would have otherwise in previous generations before, let's say PS three you would have never otherwise been able to get. and Um I know that for our games, we We let people play them and I've said before that I think We've skewed towards making our games too hard based on the expectations of the audience, but games become so much easier when you play them that you lose sight of them. That's why You have to let people play your game. And it's why major AAA stududios that take many years to make their games let roving groups of heavily NDid focus testers play their shit becausecause they have at that point, they have lost complete sight Of You can't play it properly you're not going to play it the right way. You know how to play it. And it's what I realize, I think I played Stain Slayer more than any of our games in pre release. mayaybe combined And I became really good at it And you can't kind of shut that off And you watch people play it normal people and you're like, yeah, I don't even have that grounding anymore It's I'm so far beyond you know the fundamental in the door gameplay experience that I simply must let other people play it. and then Even then you kind of get it wrong So a lot of it I think in the modernity is about like listening to people. and we've definitely nerfed things in our games in the past and made things easier over time. I don't know that we've ever made anything harder So it goes to show me that we have kind of we do the best we can, but we've also missed in our own way Saros, I think the greatest mystery of the Saros is what you're supposed to do I think with the modifiers They're front and center There are trophies around using them extensively I'm like, I don't know I don't what you I don't really know what you want me to do with these. And it does seem like kind of a cop out. I agree. Because that un locks like pretty deep in the game comparable to everything else in the game and I was surprised when that pop up was like, what is Like you just make the game way easier or way harder. It's cool, but you're putting it front and center It's like it's literally I think in the hood front or the UI front and center when you go to a menu, it's like the middle choice I think too. Yeah. So it's like I think it's trying to tell you that this is them saying like, yeah, U it It's literally it's literally central the experience. Right Exactly. That's why I got a little annoyed when people were like, you're not supposed to use or exchange. I'm like, I don't think' interreting their intentions, right You can of course use it however you want, but I don't think the intention was to bury it I think the intention was to make it as prominent as possible I don't know if that was them kind of. I would even wonder where that even came in. Like you can imagine the cararcosin modifiers coming in really late. And and it might be an answer to like the game is being focus tested and it's too sporadic about how people find it. So we need to have something that like we can't inherently balance it Maybe a cop out that's just me puttingds in people's mouth so I don't really Um Do you guys anything else you want to say about this or should we get out of here I think I'm good I think just the thing I'll say real quick is that I imagine that difficulty tuning is probably one of the most difficult of making a game because it's like you want to continue to challenge the player and have them have that sense of progress And I mean, certainly, we've all played games where it's like, oh, there's a huge difficulty spike here And I wonder if there's times where developers are like, we know But it's like what how do you the problems If you solve a difficulty spike ones in one spot, then it's like how does it affect all other parts of the game if you're more powerful at that point or this is easy or whatever. So Um Yeah, I can't imagine it's it's easy to to figure out. And yeah, like you said, a lot of play testing Yeah, playtest is key. We learn that. we've learned that over time. and Just letting more and more people play. And people break the shit out of the game too. I mean Thats what that's what's so funny is they don't mean to break it. Like I was breaking S slayer deep into development, not intentionally And so you just discover those things by playing it over and over again, but it is a tough nough to crack. and I am more forgiving than most over that, I think, because I know that it's difficult. And you can also ameliorate the problem by just having difficulty settings, but I don't think all games need that And even within difficulty settings, I find there to be imbalances. Yeah So anyway Let's get the hell out of here. It's a long episod importantportant episode, we're going to get it up right away for you I always get it up Chris, G to see you. Let's say goodbe you be well. any plans for the rest of the day Well, I mean, I think I think I might I think I might jump on to D two. I don't know. Oh yeah. I wonder if the numers I should look at Steam DB and see if people are like Creg Yeah I don't know. it's now that I know that there's nothing coming nothing serious coming down the pipeline that's that I'm at risk of falling behind on, it's actually a little bit more tantalizing to me. It's just like o So it's kind of like there's like a complete Destiny two now that I can kind of go and deal with at my leisure. And that's actually a little bit enticing. I I love Destiny two. I really do. Um, So Maybe I'll spend some time in there tonight Polish off some trophies Maybe because I think I'm actually kind of let me see because I know I've synceded them with steam. so I can check my steam But like, I think I've gotten What's my achievements looking like nineteen out of twenty three So like I'm pretty close Maybe I'll dedicate some time this week to polishing these off. But uh, Yeah, I think that's really it I've got some cling to do. I got to go grocery shopping too I'm running low. I'm at that point where I've got like All the seasonings and no meat And all like the like I have the trappings of I have like I have sides Galore But no like, you know, central, I was like, I gott to go get me and I gott to go get real shit Normal day outside of that cool man. Enjoy Dwin, goodbye you Th you play goodby No plans. I'll be working for you U getting this episode. So I'll probably take a short break, probably eat dinner but be working on getting this episode out it's getting up bacep for the audience. and', yeah, we'll get free everyone immediately to you know tomorr Yeah for tomorrow and then No plans this weekend right now. Last weekend was like super busy doing a bunch of stuff. so keep it T Cool, man. Yeah, I'm gonna go walk the dogs and behind on emails and I haven't really been playing too much. It's kind like kind of took the joy out of it for me this week be honest So I'm trying to get through Pragma, which I'm reallyjoying And We'll see what happens this weekend It's supposed to be rainy as well, so that'll be nice because it's so fucking hot here All right, guys, appreciate you. Thank you so much for listening. enjoying our show, supporting us on Patreon patreon.ot com slash Lastedia and merch over at lastastMedia. store couldn't do without you guys. We'll see you next time. Thank you again for all your kindness for the most part about what happened to me as well. sccary shit Bye you next time. Gy byy Take care guys. Sacred syymbols, a PlayStation podcast is a product and trademark of Last Stand Media and Collins Last Stand LLC, and is proudly recorded in the USA The show was conceived by, is written by and is directed by me, Colin Moriarti. My co hosts are Chris Ragon Maldonado and Dustin Furman The show is produced by executive producer, Dustin Furman All of Last Stan's Thee music is by my best friend, Ramon Narvz. As you know, all of Last Stan's shows, including sacred symbs, are fan funded on Patreon at patreon. com slash lastastan media. The following names are at the producer level on Patreon, our highest tier, and we're grateful for your thoughtful and kind contributions to our independent endeavor Thank you. 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