Gambling Software on Gaming Devices

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Track your chCs from every channel, ride in one spot, and turn real time reporting into big time opportunities Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today Getings and salutations, welcome back Sacred Symbs a Playtation podast This is episode number four hundred and seventeen name is Colul Moriard I' joined always by myon Chris Rg and Chris' both wear Bio shock shirts today Yeah maybe a little bit Chilly today? I don't know what a little Samboyish today, perhaps And maybe compleompletely on a whim I chose to off a hanger That's kind of cool. I like it. BiosShock two lack of representation here. Yeah if if I was why I' I almost call him destin Yes, he's been gone for so long. I've forgotten his name. He's eroding in my memory If Dustsin was here, would we would make him wear the bioshock shirt, the questionable bioshock two shir Yeah, we' make them change. We'd be like we're recording in a half hour now. G go procure yourself a bioshock t shirt. Yeah we have a taskbit coming yourouse with a bioshock t shirt It'll be there in five to ten minutes. Correct I forgot about that that that was like a thing How's going man? Good to see It'sone okay. It's a busy week. It's like a VitCon's happening now Which the convention itself doesn't really matter. I don't think anybody really goes to it anymore But everybody knows that it's a thing that that happens. So now people kind of like it's like, oh everybody's going to be in town Let's set up a meeting So it's been like the last couple of days has been kind of like, I've been Link it up with people. And it's been exhausting. I have another thing to go to tonight in Anahheeim, which from Burbank, if anybody knows. Locally is quite far or it's far enough where it's like, that's a trre That's a trick. Yeah. thenmorrow I have another thing. It's like it's I'm tired. I'm shot It's exhausting. You have to rest My little boy needs his He needs his rest. Dude I had to u I'm so high energy now where it's like I needed melatonin I had to go buy Mltone and I it was like I can I literally can't sep without like some kind of drug to help me I understand. I'm sorry. Yeahah, I don't sleep great myself It's u It's important for your mentalalth too, to yourrain literally your brain health, not even your mental health, but just like the Yeah, not going nuts I think Well, it's nice to see you. Yeah. VidCon, you and I have talked about it on the show in prior episodes, but I went to VidCon, I think a few times or a couple of times, twenty twelve, I think was the first one I went to. And I was very Ver What's the word for it I didn't really take it very seriously when I was going. I didn't really want to do it. It was with that kind of funny guys like very early our in our run to make the company and it was like they wanted to go and we got these tickets and stuff. But actually when I went I found it incredibly inspirational and I still remember that. like the idea that it's like, actually you can do this Um, And I remember so I met like some random people who is the he's kind of like I think in the l cow universe now, the guy that shot the gun off. front of his house. I met him Yeah, yeah, had that and then I met the epic mealtime guy Oh yeah, Harley Harley. Yeah. I think his name is. This is all through Greg who like knew everyone. and then Philip DeFranco Mmm, um who is, you know And at that point, I think he had just sold his company, his original company So I was just there and I was like, Damn, there really is like a lot of money and you can do this thing. And it ended up being like a very effective. It's probably the only conference I ever went to where I'm like, oh, I like walked out I kind of rejuvenated and And like I was like that was maybe because I didn't have work either I could do whver I want So ye yeah. but I guess yeah, it's not very big anywmore. I mean, it seems like everything's decentralized now we're nothing like that is incredibly big anymore. Even Comicon feels like it's, I mean it's it's big, but it doesn't feel like it has the zeitgeist anymore than Yeahah, it's just different. There'sess of a focus on it Uh it's I mean, it's still big. peopleople still go. It's just I think it's it's a matter of like, I don't know, it's like anything else where you If you've done it for many years, You know, at a certain point, it loses the novelty a little bit but it is rejuvenating to just see a lot of people again P peopleople haven't talked to in like years. It doing it. It's like is it is nice to just catch up but even if it is kind of It skirts the line of like this kind of like this like fifty percent business, fifty percent chill Vsery odd. when When you were dating Lacey years ago, You went to her birthday party and I went I like Lacey a lot. You and I actually knew her independently, but I became closer to her when you were dating her And I so I usually wouldn't do social things like that, but I went to the party because I thought you were gonna to be there. Do you remember this And you didn't go So I can't remembert I wish I could remember the specifics of what happened Um what was when was that was this after was this while we were dating Yeah. it was like twenty nineteen, maybe something like that. twenty eight Yeah, you were dating in twenty nineteen, right No Oh, maybe now that I leared in earlier twenty eighteen, maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah And u I say that only because it was like a mini Vidc It was Yeah. likeike and I was so out of place and felt so uncomfortable because I was like, I'm so sorry. No' I mean, it's fine. but I was like, because I roll in And I'm like, yeah, right looking for Chris and then I realizeed like, shit, I don't know anyone I don't know a single one of. I know I recognize some faces and all the rest. But that's why I think she gave us a copy of her book Maybe that's what it Maybe that's what it was. Oh, it might have been a book. It might have been a book thing That's I think I had like something that I had to could because I wouldn't have missed her birthday. Yeah. So yeah it must have the planning. that's what it was.. But I think Yeah, that was a that's funny. I remember like me and Derek have this experience too where we like we I think Lacey was throwing Lacey knew so many people she she would throw these things And I think she had like this get together at like a roller rink and we thought it was like like this kind of like interesting like, oh, it's a roller rink. like, no one does this anymore. It was kind of interesting Teay Zunde was there. Do you know Te unde? Yeah. And I remember just me Derek just talking to Taesunde for like two hours. We were just like smitten with the fact like what is this person doing here It's all like why are we? Why are we talking about politics with Days that It's so funny you run into just Interesting people when you do this kind of thing. Yeah, it's like everyone's kind of more similar than you imagine. and I just I always remember that because I was like that was last time I was around like years ago now ton of unendemic creators. None of them were gaming people. Right. And by the way, I hope people don't feel like it's weird for me to bring up Lacey. I do so because I know she and Chris are on in great terms and no, nothing weird. I wouldn't bring up exirlfriends usually But I I always thought that was so funny because I don't even remember how I knew her. I knew her somehow, but I don't remember. Like I don't remember Why I know her, you know, She was huge. She just kind of disappeared I think that was whole part of her design, though. she wanted to go. She went back to school and like Yeah, that was a big thing where it's like because I was just kind of beginning And she was kind of on her way out and it was just kind of that was the big thing I just like, all right, well Buts she's doing well As far as I know. I've been it a little bit. It's been a couple months But I like her doing perfectly fine She's good people. I have a very distinct memory of getting drunk with you and her And Derek on the beach It's rain That was yeah. yeah, it was a good memory. She was yeah, she was she was cool. I like her right? She's schoolool U All right. well, that's it. There's really nothing happening in the gaming and world. Actually there's a lot of for us to talk about Iing and excited about some of it' sad, some of the exciting, some of it mysterious and Curious And so we'll get to all of that, of course. W welcome, everyone to Sacredymbs, another episode of Sacred symbols another weekly episode. We appreci you being here. Remember you get us three days early and ad free over on patreon, patreon. com slash lastash stam media, audio and video Um That early ad free access goes to all the shows in our network that Chris and I don't do, but that are done by other very capable and competent people like defining Duke or Xbox podcast, someone sign our gameplay podcast, punching up our Nintendo podcast and so on and so forth So than you for that five dollars a month is a sweet spot veryy affordable in this era of ever increasing subscription prices Mhm, um, Things are so expensive It's not that I mean, really, it's still a high value I was thinking about this. I got Hulu to watch the handmaidsale like a couple month ago And it was like twenty two dollars or something because you got to get the ad free fucking HD, you know, like Whatever. There's like all these tears now. And I'm like it's still a good deal It's kind of similar to like Uber being expensive now, but it's kind of still a good deal when you consider what it is. It's like you just go on your phone And then someone comes in and gets you and it brings you there. it just doesn't have the value proposition anymore. So It doesn't feel it's not a no brainer anymore. I remember specifically Netflix being seven dollars a month Yeah, like And so dollars a month. It's almost You wpe yourre as for five dollars a month at this, don't you? R it It's it's it's unfortunate. Ething has skyrocketed and it's bad. It's still, I mean, that' we've talked about before where it's like ET I think for the Atari. like I think if you adjust it for inflation, I think would be one hundred forty dollars When it came out, so like we're still getting away with something. we're still getting away with something comparatively, but it's just it doesn't feel the same because we were getting away with it for so long. likeike we had it so good It like postmates we just brought up I in the last episode, right? L like used to be like, L I remember when I first got like when I started using postmates, I was like, this is ridiculous Why would I not just do this All the time. and now it's like twice the s like twice the price of the meal and then some Yeah sucks. mess It's a I've said I remember I told you in the past that I incidentally sat behind like some executive at postmates on a plane once back from L.A. to San Francisco and he had it, I was looking, you know, through the seat And he had like I wasn't really trying to spy but you're just sitting there and then you're like, look, and it's just perfectly lined up. and it was just their numbers Yeah And what I remember so specifically was like, They don't make a lot of revenue. Like it was it was surprising like it was in the tens of millions of dollars A at the time. this was many, many years ago And I was like, oh, there's no doubt that they are subsidizing the shit out of this. And lo and behold U they are, but what what The whole point is it's still kind of the Burrito taxi as people like to call it. I enjoy that. Yeah, call it the burritossaxy But yeah, five dollars a month, come join us on Patreon. We really appreciate it. There's like we have like twelve thousand three hundred or something people right now The numbers are more accurate now, which is good. Remember why I told everyone and I shut our numbers off publicly because I was like, the numbers fucked up, like they're not right, and everyone made fun of me becausecause they're like, o, you're inter And Patreon was like, Oh yeah, then the numbers fucked. And then they sent an email a couple of months ago saying that to, I think, a much broader group of people actually So I think I have a that email as well. Yeah, I think I have a better handle on it now because they there's like a lot of legacy confusion. dude It's old code. It's rightight, exactly. It's the old rubber band ball thing that I always talk about at IGN. and uh I don't think I told you this. you know the CSV, like the file format, you can dump like a bunch of data. So you can do that from Patreon. So Patreon, like you can press the CSV button and Patreon will automatically create the coalesces like, you know, exxcel document of all of your users. We have so many legacy users now that it will not work And they have to now manually run it So because I haven't people have noticed and emailed, like, I haven't updated the credits in months because I can't I can't see all the data anymore. Like it just doesn't work because we have though we have like twelve thousand whatever active users, it's something like thirty five thousand people have supported this All of those people are in the CSV and they can't dump that much data. It's so funny. And it's disappointing because I have I mean, I'm gonna just be real with you. I have all those email addresses. I don't think I'd ever used them, but it's like a thing to say like I could like launch a new thing or try to get your attention on something in the future. so you want that data And yeah, it's like they're like sorry And they're working they're like, we have to fix this obviously, but like there's just not that many people Yeah. We keep In other words, we keep experiencing issues that are only for like super legacy patreons or really big patreons And that's kind of I'm not trying to brag it's just it so it's like these unusual Plus, they run betas on our shit all the time, which I also think fuck things up as well Right. It probably doesn't help. Like dont I don't think people realize we've probably had like a couple dozen like totally random things tested on our Patreon over the years that no one even knows. And a lot of them have become normal ionity. So I think something about that probably fucks things up too Yeah, Patreon treats us like like America treats the Caribbean Islands dumping random hormones in their fucking mean shit right I I don't mind because They're very responsive, which I'm sure you know to through Snark Tank, which is good. and yeah they really I do I don't like a lot of companies as everyone knows. I really do and I'm not saying this because we're depend on them. I really do like Patreon. likeike they' really Things are broken a lot. It's not as nearly as good as it should be. I tell them that. I've told them that many times over the years, but they do care and they are trying and it is the best of what It offers or whatever, but Um The reason I don't mind as well is because we're so deeply grandfathered in old rates. like we pay almost nothing People that are joining Patreon now pay. an exorbitant amount compared to what we pay. It's like a fractional percentage So it's like and we and they'll keep us there. Apparently we're going stay forever, but like I'm like, all right, do you want. Um And I think there's even different tiers now of like you get different things out of them depending on It used to be like a flat low percentage and you were just on Patreon And then when they started introducing these new teiers, they started grandfathering old patrons into the old thing, which is appreciated So join us over there. Discord access, R assS and Spotify access. if you want to just connect the Patreon and its perks to like your podcast apps. you can do that. Submit your inquiries on the threads and the news feeed each week for the various shows are the read for Sacred goes live Wednesays and is deleted Thurs And of course sacred symbols pl O weekly supplement to the show, interviews deep dives, review discussions, and so on and so forth couple of exciting things lined up. So we last week I felt very friendly and nice, which is unusual. No, I'm always friendly nice. I published Dou of seven's review discussion andplilercasts and Pragmata's review discussion and spplilercasts. twow episodes instead of one Just to kind of get them out of the way I'm going sit down and I realize I spllt his name and was bothering me. I'm going to sit down with Reesece Elliott I am on tomorrow, actually from one recording. So around the time this goes live on Patreon and we're going to talk about what's going on with PlayStation the bunge shit has obviously happened. We're talk about that later in the show. What's going on with Xbox? Xbox just raised the price of their console, which is too be expected, but it's just It's like, I don't know Um Oh man. And because it's like yeah is PlayStation susceptible to these price increases? probablyb. I mean, they just raised the price of it in March. I would assume they're not going to raise the price of it again.. I think they said that they raised it more drastically than they even felt like they should. so they didn't have to do it again. So that is my hope that they stick with that, but They're going to be victimized probably by the global economic situ. I just think it's funny raise the price of something which has almost no demand It's like you're creating the unprecedented economic negative demand Yeah I don't know, man. I mean, like you said, it makes sense, but it's just it's just so crazy All of it Um, let's see. What else Oh, so yeah, Reese 's from Olenia, loveove Resece He's always welcome on the show. Re really want to talk to him about a lot of stuff. I don't know if you've been reading, like he's making his rounds, Rehese Elliot Like he's starting to people at Games industry are starting to talk to him, IGNs starting to quote him And it's like Does Rhese know more about the backacke end games industry than I do? almost certainly Should people be asking me for quotes I get a lot of things, right Why am I not getting quoted You know, what about me I told you this. I had Reese just randomly where could we email correspond Fairly regularly And I just emailed them and I'm like, tellell me how many copies of Saint Slayer we sold It's like a old test. You know And he was within six percent Ptty good. And I was And by the way, and he said this and I understand this, it is way harder to nail smaller games than it is bigger games like way hard. Um because there's all these touchstones And I was shocked by how accurate it was Yeah And you were like,ah, I'm sry Yeah, you It's, they don't know for sure. it's an algorithm of some sort that they're using. But it seems like it's and they are wrong sometimes, but it seems like it's fairly accurate. And I say that only because I feel like people bust those num the balls of those numbers, those numbers balls This like being up shhits ass or whatever I said yesterday. shit say. I wrote that down in a sticky note because it was dis same for a few weeks Um So Sacred Plus continues. I talked to Chris yesterday too because of everything that's going on with Bunge I asked in this yesterday kind of understanding that the bungee layoffs were coming so that we could start getting this going and so they are revealed today for more recording. So Chris is going to sit down with Cogg and maybe other people I don't know. it's up to you. Yeah we might get one I don't know. I don't know who else would be a good who else would be a good fit for it. Yeah, mayaybe someone outside the family like I don't, or even like I don't know. we can ask in this where I. I think I might reach it because there's some people that I know that would I think would be kind of interesting to have on But it'd be depending on whether or not they would they would say yes. Okay, I'll put some feelers out, but Definitely in the next week or so Yeah yeah, we're looking forward that So that' be the next episode hopefully. And then I have a bunch of interviews kind of lined up or lining up in interviews. We'll be doing a bunch more of those as the summer goes on because there's just the game stuff is now going to slow down to a crawl as far as review discussions and spoilercast. And in fact, I was it's why I published the Sarrow stuff on the same weekend too. It's like we got to kind of just clear the deck There's just a lot of things coming up. So support us on Patre. we appreciate that Sacred st. Oh actually, one more thing Doggy style with Miss Frizzle wrote Ohon't know is Kan What are your thoughts on doing a look back sppoilercast on the first Alien isolation Sounds like a bunch of you guys haven't played it so it would be interested to get everyone's impressions on it before the new game comes out Maybe Let's let's revisit that when we have a like a specific, we're getting really close to alien isolation too. which I don't think we're Mbe we, I don't know have it doesn't feel Uh I don't think that they even put a date on it. Maybe they did. Alien isolation two release date And that's probably no date. Do does not have an official release date. So yeah, they're not putting a year on it. so. All right It's a while away. So let's revisit that at the time because I'm totally up for that. I've always wanted to play alien isolation. I think. famously got a horrible review by Ryan McCaffrey, not horrible review, a bad review by Ryan McCffrey who's friend at IGN, and I think part of the reason for that was why I and play, I was like, oh, f right. Well And then you realize over time, it's very similar to when we gave God Hand a bad review and everyone like is really obsessed with that as well. It doesn't really represent the cumulative feeling about the game. and so I will go back. I like aliens. Like I like that IP. I've not seen all of them. I'm not like super familiar with it compared to a lot of people like my brother's really into it,. I like that universe And you dooped the first movie is fucking amaz Yeah absolutely stellar. And actually aliens is really the second movie is really great too. Yeah, there wass a lot I thought alien,h, what is it? um Alien Romulus is pretty good too, I thought That that was like the most recent one. Uh because that was the one that had that actress in it that everybody was like, this is this is a dead ringer for Ellie Okay R what my name was But I remember thinking the same thing while I was watching. I was like, this really would be perfect Uh But yeah, that's been a game that I've been curious about too. It's stealth game so it's right up my alley. I don't know why it's taking me so long. I think I'm kind of intimidated by it. orr not intimidated by it, but I'm nervous that I won't like it I think that's like, you know what I mean? Like I'm always That always worries me when like this big game is sitting there that like I know a lot of people love and then like I haven't tried its like I hate this And then I have to talk about how much I can't stand it And then I'll get like forty thousand DMs hires them Tires Oh man Sacre stream YouTube What's with my bad spelling? because I put it in here a lotck more. Like I'm fucked up right now. Sacred streaming continues. T madness streams back to back. Hope people enjoyed those as I got my se legs. I'm going to have a lockmard on and we're going we're going to duo the next sacred stream I think that'll be fun And we're just, I'm just sticking around. I mean, it's it's it's it's funny, man It is now reflective not only of the podcasts, but of streaming. This thing I've lamented for years where it's like It seems like the more I try, the less people care Right, So I'll do like these really deep dive studied episodes of Sacred demilals, pllus whatever they do f. people like them, but like then you put up this random like, oh, let's stick around And then it gets like three times as much traffic I do these things where like I stream and I try to be thoughtful about a game or like and then and those do X and then I'm just like, I'm going to just sit here And whatever you want to talk about is what I talk And it's the easiest thing in the world. and everyone's like, Ohh ye, this is great This is this This is Partially why I think I'm just deeply saddened. Where like I just think it makes me feel like meritocracy is dead, you know Be like the more effort you put into something, the less people care about it. and like the better something is, the less people care about it Just like, oh, where's Roblox ike I don't care about this great game. let's play let's play the same exact game remade poorly in Robox. It's like, right Good hi exciting Very exciting save me D't Trp M All right. Merch Last day meet it up store. we appreciate over there T shirts, sweatsatirts, stickers, and so on and so forth shipped for my home And I'm expecting, I don't know how have any updates on Allegheny Hogs, but I'm expecting to learn that we've gotten our, you know, our trademark in the weeks to come hopefully, and then we'll pull that back up Yeah But something a little new and a little fresh. One, two, a one, two, three me a breaker. Break, Break me off a piece of that kit Kickat bar and chocolate crrispy t is gonna make your day and wherever you go youll hear the people say Give me a break, Give me a break. Bak me off a piece of that kickat bar. break Okay cat. Eier dejulio Nespera tmvina Operaco Tempo G Mundo Les resrespondero Al Gamadoino Plo unospoos Garana la galaseroanosubllol Gan Eestno de Operaco T booy, Cado Sidos, Martieta deculio Portte Mundo in Peacock Get to some topics discussion and we'll get in the news quite few things to talk about import and we' get to what we're playing, and then we'll finish off with six questions, comments concerns thoughts and ideas of a game nature from the audience, but we can begin here with Chad Flowers who wrote in on Patreon just like you can to hello my handsome sacred booyys, Colin I've been a hardcore fan of yours for the last twelve years. I thirty two have a younger brother twenty one It's a very similar H to in Diging who recently graduated from SIUC with his bachelor's degree For the summer he took a paid internship a couple hours away from home For years, I've tried to get him to listen to sacred symbols, but to no avail, lo and behold Within a week of starting his internship, I get a text from him that reads I'm listening to the most recent episode of Sacred S symbol, because today is the first day working remote and Like ten minutes in, they call this one guy's girlfriend in R word, goed podcast end quote. Gentlemen, will you please yell, my brother to listen to me more often, but will you also join me and wishing him a happy twenty second birthday. At the moment, he's listening with ads, which I cannot allow to continue. So for his birthday, I'll be gifting him a year long membership to the amazing five dollars year This episode will be released on his birthday So I know I'm hearing this will be a pleasant surprise. Lo you guys and as always, thank you for your donation. Thank you for your donation, Chad, and welcome Mr. Flower younger Master flowers. That's right. I've been playing Batman a little bit Lego Batman. So I got a little bit of Alfred Hm. flowing through me as it were Yeah, yeah. I love that. I love that. I love brothers listening to the show brrotherly Bond Um Yeah, Happy birthday nerd. Yeah, happay birthday Happy birthday to you well and congratulations on your paid internship. I never I guess I was a paid intern at IGM, but not really. Basically like I was an intern, but I would just get freelance money for doing the things I was already doing I never had a paid internship. I think that's pretty pretty exciting and pretty like my nephew also has one and I'm like, I never got paid when I was an intern I was an intern at Massachusetts Historical Sociy I't paid sh Yeah Yeah I mean It'd be getting trying to get away with that now is it would be kind of wild. where' like where the myth of upward mobility is completely gone You know, like there's no It's a completely different era. I get it.'s I'm kind of surprised that they're doing internships at all You know what I mean? Likeah we' just like That's fascinating to me internships are dicey becausecause there are all like you said, like these regulations and the laws We were told When I was an intern at IGN that later on, like Par told me, you know, who's the founder of IGN and still there He was like, what we were doing was totally like And when and when Fox bot is like that There were no interns anywhere after that which I felt sad about because like that worked out for a few people And ye, it was basically like What I don't want to spe out of school here. It's, of course there to be rules and regulations but at the same time, it's Why can a corporation and like a young person have an agreement Like why does it have to be this thing. It's like, well, I knew I I wouldn't look I think we were taking advantage of each other. Yeah, it's like I get to say I work here You get to tell someone to I was basically a gopher. in the beginning, do whatever, whatever And I did it with a fucking smile on my face and bells on You know, and we got to You know I thinking about this recently actually Chis it's funny this comes, because And I don't know how you feel about this, but I don't like The live to work versus W work to live mantra. Right? And like not giving your life to a company and that anything can happen Right for people people that don't know, it's like There's this idea of like, you work to live. In other words, like it's a necessity you have to work, but you're living your life. There are people that live to work which is more me or at least that what was I'm not so much that anymore, but I was that when I was younger for sure And Um I feel like people have pooed and demean that likeike the idea of like putting in the work of being of grinding of kind of not being disrespected, but unappreciated in a way of like making your bones, as my dad used to say And I feel like that's kind of like becoming a lost art. And I understand it's a knife's edge We're like you could easily fall on one side of the blade and just and it's You are getting taken advantage of it. There is no upward im mobility. It is for nothing, all that kind of stuff, but the risk taking of it being the other way And I don't know. I like the idea of like I made myself invaluable It's not right. It's not a I wasn't the most talented person that ever worked at that site. There's no way that's true But I am, as far as I know, the only person that was ever just offered a job without ever apppplying for one becausecause they were like, well, why not? He's been doing it for all this time And I just feel like people, I feel like that's still possible It is still possible. It's just like it's the the feasibility and the likelihood of it is so much l. Like I remember because that was the default thing in like the seventies. You know, like that would be that was that's how you would get jobs really. is you would just acquaint yourself with people. And you'd be like, I just get this guy to do And then that was the that was the way it was for quite a while, E up until like I think the two thousands. I just think the internet. And a lot of a lot of the things that have happened since The twenty ten s, I think were pretty disruptive to that. And it's just like it's a very different It's just a very different world. likeike there's people my nephew was going to school. And he got a full scholarship and the school just randomly at the end of the first semester, it closed down entirely And it's just like, well, what is this? Right? Like that's that's kind of a fucking unheard of thing, right? Like I had genuinely in my entire life up until that happened to me, which is like I think like this year or like maybe last year. I've never heard of that happening I'm sure it must have happened. I'm sure schools have shut down But like Schools of that stature like it's crazy It was just insane. And so like I just think there's a The faith in the permanency of these institutions in which you're expected to put time into for unpromised reward, but a potential awward is just like it's It's too shaky for most people to deal with now It's a bummer. I wish we lived in back more in that space. I think a lot of it too, Chris comes from. the size of rise I guess. Like if you work at ye, meta. Mike I understand putting your time and you can climb. I mean, I know this I know people that work at Google. like there's a whole structure of pay and like how you climb and all the rest and people do it And sure. The people that don't fall off. U And it requires a certain something of you. But when the push comes to shove and Google looks at its their sheets and they're like We need to lay twenty thousand people up. I'm just making up numbers right? Google's not in any financial troubleles at that point it's like, well someone's got to go and I think the difference was when I was at IGN was we were small. smaller or M smaller or a few hundred which is still way too big. But in my experience with like work and with layoffs and all of the rest is like I was rarely though what happened, I was very rarely surprised at who got laid off In fact, like I probably every there were probably five or six big layoff rounds when I was there, which is sad but true And I probably could have named ninety percent of the people. Like before it happened Occasionally, I always say this about Ryan Clements, who was like a guy to do podcast beyond with. It's not just because I loved him. It's like I was shocked I was like Bake It was always the it was often and typically the people that were like not as good as some of the people, they didn't work as hard. They didn't stay around as long. They didn't care as much And I just don't want people to get caught in this trap I think you have to be a self aware of where you are. If you work in an enterprise of ten people and you excel. That's good for you V, you know, But if maybe if maybe you're working at fucking Oracle Um It's a little different It doesn't mean you shouldn't work hard to try to strive. It just means that you might actually end up on the wrong side of the ledger at some point, which is not possible at the local HVac shop or whatever you know like, I don't know I Yeah. I mean, we're no strangers to working hard for very little Yeah, I think. And I think that's that's valid. It's just like the very little now compared to very It's so crazy. like it Everything's so much expensense. everything's so bad Uh so it's just it's a very different thing. Like I worked I did YouTube for like seven years before I saw Dime. Yeah which's crazy. Like you'd be stupid to do that really Dumb thing to do realistically That was a py in this guy thing Um yeah, Well, that's exactly right. It's like There are no guarantees in life I just don't want people to miss opportunities because they're starting to get affected by this. Blise Don't get too jaded. Yeah, right. That's That's exactly whated. Right. Because I really do believe like I do believe everything is like quite fucked, but I also do believe That it's one of those things where you're you're better off serving yourself or you're going to serve yourself better if you just pretend that's not tr Like you're going to be a better position than you would be if you like it's if you just accept that you're just not going to do it, then you're just, then you're not going to do it But if you try, there's at least some chance that it'll work out. That's how I feel about Exactly, Augmenting the dice rolls, as I often say to people. I just I was simply in a position where I was just like, I simply refuseed to I remember specifically, I was so was such a brazen thing for me to feel for how young I was, but I was like, I refuseed to work for anybody else Like I can't do it. I canstand. Yeah And most people like I can't do it. So either this works or I die Right, I feel the same way. It's totally anathemate to me to this idea of like, yeah, I'm gonna have like, I'm gonna to go somewhere and nine in the morning or ten in the eight in the morning, whenateever you start, I'm going to stay there for eight or nine hours I'm going have a boss. Oh my go, I don't think so But I can't do it. But yeah, it's You know? I think the American dream is tenuous But I think that It is so tainable still. And that's what I want like I feel like I've attained piece of it. I feel like you've attained a piece of it I feel like neither, I don't want to speak for you I came from a middle class family. They were good people. They did everything they could to help me I loved them. I love them By the time I was out of college, no one was doing anything for me I had to do it all by myself. And so I do consider myself self made And I want to encourage people that like, yeah, like there's a So like and we got all on this topic because of the internships, but it's like it's just so sad to see that kind of decline Um Right And and like I would have never been able to get in the way I got in anymore And that's too bad because I was the I was the beneficiary of so much luck as well, which I always say So there's always luck involved. Oh yeah and delusion, to be honest Like you do have to be deiluted a little bit. You have to be so crazy enough that you think like, yeah, whatever. I' I'll do this one in a million thing and I'll be fine. Like I believe that intrinsically, which is cra it is like logistically insane But I fully believed like, yeah, I'm going to be Yeah, I'm going be working myself, and I'm just going Do sh it on the internet and that'll pay for everything. and And'll be fine And I believed it completely. I was like, there's no shot that this isn't going to work. Yeah, level of dilusion is good. I think. I actually my u I think everyone in my family iss going to do fairly conventional things like my nieces and nephews, but one of them my nephews is an actor or that's what he does. L he loves acting and he's like all these plays and all the rest. And I wrote him a note on his birthday once where I was just like, You could do it Like I know this is the thing you're doing now and it's fun, and then they's like, o, so what are you going to do for a living? And like what are you going to going to go and get it you can go college for accounting and you're going to I'm like, but you could Do it Same thing with Dag, Dagen did it Right? Everyone a lot of people thought it was crazy. I remember that. ' it was a different time in the early nineties. The only people who didn't think my adults that I knew that didn't think he was crazy were my parents actually to their credit. I remember them buying his huge drafting table in his room and like when he was in like tenth grade and like all this But it's like, people are like you can be a cartoon. He knew he talked about it if endlessly Since I was like, I could remember that he was like a cartoist and he was going gonna be a cartoist, he was gonna be animator. And then like everybody was like, what are you talking about And then you just did it So I just I encourage people Yeah I remember I remember being being like a kid running around with a camera, but like I had family members being like, what wass he doing And then like years later they were asking me for advice Yeah, man how you how do youh how do you do this on Online like n That's you'll figure it out I believe in you Interesting stuff. Chad and brother Chad Brother Brother Chad. am I saying Weston J wrote in and said, Hey gents Can we get a shout out for my son, Lincoln who turns eighth this Monday This last week he got his first Platinum trophy in Miles Morales He's pretty proud of it and has been telling everyone he comes into contact with that he got a platum from his grandmother who doesn't like video games to remind his mother and I, another other siblings multiple times today day and he's proud of it Now he wants to pllatinum more. He brought up the fact that he looked up easy platinums on YouTube and asked me to look at shhovelware games. I was shocked He knew what those were I told him we don't do that find games to Platinum that he is actually to earn and support them. He may not understand it, but I'm doing my best here to nurture the generation of trophy under thans then well h up and listen Well, Weston Bed on Sony's behavior lately on Playtation Netork might not have access to these games from'. S againster muchual orger we'll get into Um It's one of the rare things I think Sony is unabashed doing well right now Um yeah But congratulations to your son on So Miles persot, I'm pretty serious because you have to be it tw have to there's no avoiding it. becausecause there's a gamelus troph. I remember that about it And yes, steer them away from all that Nazis. We don't we don't earn pllatinum trophies just to spoof the number. We earn them. Fride and honor course. So Buty welcome to the grind And I'm sorry in advance because it's G'onna gonna fuck your whole life uproad KY his life, KY jelly enthusiast wre in and said I turn on an old Sacred symbols plus that had Chris hosting and his voice sounded completely different than it does now. Chris Did you have a persona back then? Colin has sounded the same for fourteen years. Now I've been told I sound really different too. And in fact, I go back and listen to shows and I do sound different I think you do sound remarkably different like when you when when you go back and like watch like old Even older stuff than just like early even early sacred, we sound different. Yeah, I think so too. So I'm surprised he only tuned out on use sounding different. I think people just naturally sound different over time. I don't know why. And how Mine was more exaggerated though, because like I did have a a character basically, or like an on camera presence early on I would lean into because I didn't quite know And I still to be honest, like I remember, I think we had this conversation either like this year or last year or something where like when we first started this show, I just kind of went by my name My YouTube name because that's what it That's what it was But when I when I dreamt that up, it was kind of like that was supposed to be like a distinct kind of separate That's like not really me And so like it became like, o, what do I do for this thing? whereere like I am just me, but I'm going by my fake name U. So like, yeah, probably early on I was a little bit more on camera or like more attuned to that on camera voice But it gets hard to do for a long, like you can't do that for hours and hour especially for four hours where the podcast eventually got hours al like notom min This hurts This hurts. It's a different It's a very different thing It would be funny if we both had just totally different inflections when we talked. camera Like I sounded like a gay man or something when I spoke, but like I put on this like newscaster voice I always think about that with new news people, they all sound the same. like they always like it's like, what is this? It all reverts to this Yeah radio voice. I don't know But I've never tried to sound different or anything like that. I remember being very self conscious when I was a kid You probably felt the same way. I think we might have even discussed this of like, when you would answer the phone and they think it was a girl D you ever have that? Or maybe you didn't, Yeahah, you grew in the areraa of like still answering the phone. Did you Did you ever get that? Like I used to answer the phone and people would think I was like my sister Allie, and I'd get so upset I'd be like, how do I I didn't know it sounded like that If it if I did I don't know if I remember it. I don't know if it made an impression on me if it did I'm sure that must have happened because when you're a kid, you just sound ridiculous But u It never stuck out to me if it did happen. I remember there was a big thing on Xbox Lve and stuff. likeike you get on mic that people would call kids squeakers. I remember. It's like a fun little it's a fun little slur. for like young kids playing online where they on games that to be frank, they shouldn't have been playing technically But Yeah, no, I don't know. I don't think I ever had that experience. I do I do just think it's I don't know. you try to get You try to craft yourself a version on camera that is U that's different. notot for everybody. Some people just want to be themselves and that's cool I specifically wanted a separation Be I like the idea of like playing like like in like a louder likeike you were volatile version of it. It was like freeing because then I could just go into my real life and just be chill It was nice Yet' It's what always say about the early like web one point ero about how like, everyone was only like mostost ninety percent of them like someone was lying about something or obfuscating or differentiating something about yourselves. just because you could Yeah. And so right there likeike I don't think I ever hit it either Like there's even like, there's a, there's a gag that I hadn't in videos all the time where like I would I would literally the screen would like flash to black and white and would have on the bottom the bottom left, would have text that's said character break and it would just be me talking normal. L it' fucking insane And it would snap back. So like it was always pretty transparent that it was not really me, but it's just like you can't do You can't be a heightened version of yourself for four and a half hours You know, that's too much. Yeah, it's a lot I could do it for like an hour and a half like early on Yeah Yeah. that was there It was a different show very different the early it was different. By the way, was talking to our ad reps this week and that they're interested in selling sacred streaming. So they were asking for like numbers and data And u Our average watch time is insane It's like thirty minutes. Like, I know we put up these really long podcasts. so it's like, well, that's not that impressive. It's like, dude think about using YouTube in that the average person that watches one of these videos stays on it for thirty minutes So kind of whileild you know, um And, uh, So I had because you know, you can like, dump your deck from YouTube and like it'll show you all your stats. you can share it or whatever with your in a PDF format or whatever And I never look at that ship. I don't know why. I I'm very interested in other people's numbers, but for somebody re just not even look at my own in terms of in terms of like what's going on And boy that male, female thing is brutal It was It's like ninety seven three or something like that. Yeah What it like Ours ours is better, but I don't remember. The last time I checked it was wasas it It wasn't ninety seven three. I think it was like eighty I mean that's I don't I don't I don'tember what the fuck it was. It disappoint me because I mean, obviously we are very maail coded podcasts. I know that. I also think that like the gaming space, I mean, It's established that I feel this way is that like The idea that half of gamers and women is obviously speciious and ridiculous Um I wish I wish that was true for so many different reasons, you know? But economically is the biggest reason. and I'm not say, you know, my wife is a huge gamer. my sister Alie is a huge gamer. Not saying you don't exist I'm saying the idea that we would have like, oh, like In other words, it would never be fifty. But like what could it be and I just disappointed because I'm like, we're doing all this like we're selling ads and doing all this traffic, but there's no There's a massive gender gap that I think a lot of podcast experience, but when you think about like a show on TV or whatever, you're selling for like a cumulative number of people and we're basically cut off from half of the population, like, damn Yeah It would be really nice Maybe if we stop talking about And u things of this nature, although, again, that makes assumptions about women You don't know it can't I can't even describe why I think what might think the issue without offending women So I really don't know. I don't know. its I think it's just I think the vibe of I do think the outward facing vibe of the Like I think about this a lot, especially lately with just like some of the vocal Like the vocal minorities that are that are loud We're like, if I wasn't into video games at all Would I like would I ever pick it up You know, or like would I pick it up to the point where I would like be active in the community if I just saw like what the online discourse was. And I do I do think the answer is probably like no. Yeah, L it looks miserable. Like it really and it is in some in a lot of ways. especially the stuff that gets like the most traction. it's always this misery. It's people nitpicking to death. And I don't even say that to act as if I'm not I don't do it also. I need to pick the hell out of things But it is like outwardly looking in. It's just like Jesus Christ the fuck. Yeah, you don't want any part of this. You don't want Yeah, that's exactly right. likeike you don't want. I' rather just make my stained glass or whatever whatever the fuck it is that I'd be doing. That's that's the the way I feel about it too is I miss web one point zero forum usage and right because I think it was opt in. And I think if those kinds of presences still kind of existed in a more robust way, which they just don't. I mean, I know there's Resetera and to a lesser deree Neoaff. I I'm obviously Resetta is fucking horrifying NeoGF is a shadow of its former self although it's still doing its thing and I have no disrespect for it. It's I miss game facts specifically Um, and That was fun because again, it goes back to the era of going on the internet And like I'm going to go on the interternet. I'm going to open a browser or AOL or whatever. I'm going to go to this thing and I'm going to do it I would so I would if that still existed, I would probably still do that Sure, yeah But yes, the social media now like as it exists now where nobody is just centralized in the same place and like Like it used to be you could put out like even in the YouTube space, you put out a video or whatever. it'd be about a specific subject. so people who were interested in that subject would find it But like now it's like it's just in the feed and now people who like aren't interested in it will just see it because it's just there. And then people will be like, why are you showing me this? Why is this here It's like, donon't fucking watch this If it's not What are you doing Going. Right I don't want to hear for people who don't care. like I want to hear for people who care And that's kind of the problem. Yeah. So don't care like included now because it's the default. Social media, yeah, it it's funny because I still think its it's hyper useful in its own way, but like I've just learned to more interact with it in ways that I will L like when I tweet things, I usually just like I said, I just usually mute it Be I don't want I want to see my notifications because sometimes people'll send me interesting things or Right like you want to have an outside interaction with people, but like at the same time, I'm like I know when I tweet this joke or this thing like I I retweeted Xbox had like updated Xbox console prices and their thing and I just retweeted. and I said, they're going to turn this thing around any minute now And then I just tweeted and then I just muted it Yeah But it's like Because you can't just even tell a joke or like even because then it'll be about,h what about Playstation? What about Playstation?'m like I didn't anything about Plsttation. But like it's just it's the way social media is and I find it more useful and fun to just be observant then T partipatsory Yeah. You know Yeah, that's true Wishing you could be there live for the big game, soaking up the atmosphere of the crowd. Too often, life gets busy orr the price hold you back Priceeline is here to help you make it happen. With millions of deals on flights, hotels, and rental cars, you can go see the game live D just dream about the trip? book it with Priceline. Download the prriceline app or visit priceline. comot Actual prices may vary limited time offer Want to elevate your travel experience? Here's how. With a Delta Sky Miles Reserve American Express card, you can relax before your flight in the Delta Sky Club with up to fifteen visits per medallion year. And now through july fifteenth, twenty twenty six, you can earn up to one hundred twenty five thousand bonus miles, so you're closer to your next adventure the Delta Sky Miles Reserve card. Check out the new design at www d. delta. com slash Spotify. Minimum spending requirements and terms apply stop yanking Uncle Ragun's lever rode in I don't know that means So Hy andC American taxpayers rely on the presresident's physical and cognitive evaluations to ensure so sound fiscal decision making. n't that same transparency extend the patrons So we bring the Santa Monica psychiatrist, a guest co host for a few episodes I feel like it would explain a lot. release the files, hashtag release the files I'll recline and listen The things that doctor Rosenblack could probably tell you about the two of us? That's such a funny fucking idea, dude He had like that you remember, He had that very flat affect He' a very flat. I thought I thought it was annoying him the entire time. That's exactly right. He was great. It would be funny to like We'll sign some papers that he just comes on here and just tells you whatever whatever I don't think he remembers me to be out like because I didn't I didn't go for that long really Be it was a bitch and a half to go to and from, especially when we stopped doing in person person. Yeah because that was the only justification that I had for going was just like, o, I already have to go here for work I might as well just do this while I'm here it became like, I don't know about this I love this idea. It's one of the funniest things about this whole operation is that we had this psychiatrist Oh I got it's so funny. Yeah He was what I remember about him was you remember you sat in a little room and then he had to press a button Yeah stuff like that. And then I how a lot of those things work, which is so weird and imp personal. You think it would Yeah. I think it's to like clear the office of a person so like there's no no one crosses each other's paths or something, but it's like Yeah, that makes sense. I'm like, yeah, right Im not that secret though, like what the fuck are people coming in? Yeah? Isn't it like what you're saying that' secre Not that you're saying it. Right. It's almost like you're coming into like It's almost like if the building was labeled like porn addicts Anonymous You know what I'm say? You didn't want anybody seeing you going in or Right? It's just like the Sy or something. Yeah, It's like an unmarked office, basically And I just remember he had this like amazing view out of his window And I just kind of like, and I used just like stare at it while he was talking. I'm sure that The other thing, remember the other thing we you talk about is like Because I think he did this to both of us where it's like, he's like take a seat. And then there's like a bunch of oions and I'm like, where do you want me to sit? And's, whereerever you Yeah, I'm like, fuck I hate this shit. Like you're like you're already you're already doing this shit to me. You know, You're analyzing my choices. Yeah, right Yes, like like, what you what are you gleaning from where I choose Like if I choose the bigger chair is that like an ego thing? Yeah, right. It is what a funny thing. I love this It's such a good idea. It is that is we should get in touch with him. He was He was older and that was years ago. Now I wonder if he just retired now He might be. Yeah And again, I really doubt he remembers me at all. Right. S sure he has notes somewhere about. mayaybe he doesn't remember me either I I guess I saw him for like a year and a half. So I guess you would probably remember a person at that point. Oh yeah I guess'm for a months. God, he had me fucking jacked up. I'll tell you man. Yeah be hyped up on shit I can't remember what the hell he gave. You just gave me Xanix or something Yeah, he b. I can't remember. He gave me a I mean, all the things that I was still on. I'm only on Alexa Pro now, but I was on like at a van and other things that he gave me. reallyally high doses that were covered. I think I told you this that like Kaiser or not Kaiser, whatever I had in California covered it. But when I moved to Virginia, they're like, this is such a high dosage that like your insurance doesn't even cover this Rr And then like the guy I saw here was like, this is really bad for your heart So yeah. By the way, Yeah, I'm down to ten milligrams Lexapro now. whichich is one sixth, I think when I was taking it Is that a daily thing or is it like a weekly or? It's daily. I take it when I go to bed. Okay. ye But I'm off everything else That's why I'm feeling a fucking A little freaky right now. Okay. Dude I haven't Yeah, like I don't know I don't Beause like I remember when my Zan ex posation ran out and then I was just kind of like, okay Like I remember being told that it was like addictive or whatever, and it's just like I didn't I just did not give a shit that I ran out and I don't think I ever tried to get more of it I've been off everything I took ad what is it Ader all for a little bit. Ader all yeah. And I still take it every down again when I when I really need the fucking hunker down, but I never can't get like that. I heard it's like a superpower for some people. So like, I don't want to I don't want to sit and say like a drug is amazing But it kind of yeah. it's yeah, you of sounding People obviously should only take these things with your physicians prescriptions, of course, But like, yeah, there's many, many medicines like that that are like if in a perfect world, you would always be on this because it's awesome but it has these detrimental and deleterious effects. Right. It's also meth. R. likely E exactly. It's like, yeah But the thing about it the thing that's really annoying, specifically about Adderall becausecause it's an ADHD treatment spepecifically is that like It it like the The hoops you have to jump through to get it are so specifically tailored against people who would actually need it.. Like if you can focus on all of these insane hyp specific segmented steps to get this done in an efficient manner. whyy the fuck do you need this at all? I remember it felt cruel like trying to get trying to get the same. because like, what do you mean you said you had it? but and then I drove all the way here and then you're like, you're actually not going to do because it's not the right, like all this bullshit that I have to go settle guy I have to go get on a phone with like some guy in a different state. coordinate some bullshit with this I don't have the attention span for this is why I'm here. You're, right. It's almost like it's almost like, u It reminds you of like, you know, like the fear of like the fear of long words is in and of itself a very, very long word Oh, interesting. You know like Yeah, let me go open and lif that up Yeah. It's almost like that where it's just like you're doing this on purpose. I know people who can score like insane drugs with very little Reason or care And this like focus thing which I struggle with is like is you're keeping it for me for this re It's insane Dude this is insanity H now wor gonna say hot toana stress a quib Daliaophobia That's the fear of long words. Yeah, like, come on That's As the British would say, you havingt a laugh. You're having a laugh. You're having a laugh, mate I love the word mate in British English because it is both You say like, these's my mate or I'm going out hanging with my mates. But then you also use it as like Listen, mate know And I'm like Oh, that's interesting. that's interesting use of the wor Do we have something like that? Buddy? I guess.ud Buddy is the closest thing, although Buddy, I feel like is more antagonistic now, rightight than it used to be, right? You know, it's all right buddy more It's like, all right, buddy. Yeahah, settle down. settle down, buddy But like these are my buddies., these are my buddies No whoo the fuck says that? Yeah, no one I guess really says that. I call I call Rush buddy R Well deeaning in a way Oh, yeah, he's a completely subservient creature That's what a buddy is. Hot a monstra qui bit of aelophobia It's that's on that's un that's ridicul It's like those German words. Beause I think in German, they like mix everything together where like all the modifiers and like descriptor words are like on the noun or whatever. or the verb. I don't quite know how it works, but that's why you get all these ridiculous monstrosities of words I, come on guys, at some point you gota just cut this off. This is ridiculous Is this such a or like Yeah, it's it's was if you're like I think like a The condition where you have a lSp has a shit ton of Ss in it It's like you're doing this on purpose. Like you're doing it on purpose, I think at this point. It's like it's fucking evil H Now Human host tanking reputation this person wrote in. I don't know why human hosts. I don't know what that is He definitely messed up. Yeah Hey guys, so I have a theory. Whenever Brad the Green Reap, shows his face on a defining Duke episode, he brings forth some kind of strategic apocalypse upon them Prad has the exact opposite effect by showing his face on sacred symbol I know you guys don't want to bring on an extra seat during Dustin'sence, but could this be our time to force PlayStation into actually doing something that doesn't make us question What the fuck they're doing for once. I just I don't know what kind of powers Brad brings to this show and I'm too scared to test that out personally. Yeah, notot only for Sony, I don't really give a shit like whatever, but like for us Like I don't like that kind of power being around me. I don't want to unleash that. Gennie from the bottle, but I do think it is really funny that he really does appear on that show and then bad things happen. Like it I thought it was a little weird. like, I was like, all right, whatever,'s just a thing. but I'm like, no, this is actually a thing to an almost comical level And that's scary levels of power It's like it's like your powers of suggestion. that we've exercised over these eight Eight years. u Yeah very that's arcane and unusual I don't want to br Bad anyhereose the show because of that Yeah. Yeah, let's I love the I love the logic of it too. It's just like Like I' Like if somebody brought an active uranium rod into one studio and everybody got sick So he was like You think this would be maybe good for us though? I know. Like why would you assume that? Yeah, like the immediate assumption should be no, it would be the same or worse So let's not do that. Its funny th All right My friends, let's get into the news It's doing I'll start footnoting now for locks purposes here big one. This is the big one. I mean, I think we have another big one, but I'm going to start here because I just think this is more substantial and more interesting, which is that Gra Fro six preorders have gone live, I think by this point, but they were announced a couple days ago for ader recording or actually just a day ago from recording And so there's some press releases and things to get through and we have information on the price of the game as well, which they had kept a secret There's a lot of talk about this about what it might be. But what they've settled on is eighty dollars for the standard version of the game. I think this is reasonable. I'm not surprised by it. I think they would have gone no lower than seventy and I made the argument that they go all the way up to one hundred, I think, get away with it There is a hundred dollarars hundred special edition version of the game, however And this is where things get a little dicey for some people. We'll get into all this as well is that it does give you access to some material things in the game that feel a little weird to cut off from everyone. But yeah But I got to be honest, get that version just just in case, I guess Plus, I really just feel very comfortable paying a hundred dollars for this. That's up to each individual, both your financial situation and how you feel about spending your own money but I think one hundred dollars for a game that could be a game of the generation and certainly is like the most expensive explosively marketed whatever game. It's like, okayll I'll pay hundred dollars for it to get in But that's what we know. Also, Sony's Substantial marketing, I think for this game has now erupted. I don't know if you've seen how far this has gone Yeah. So First of all, I pointed this out to the Dukees. I thought this was interesting because I always go to Xbox Wire just see what they're writing and seeing, you know about different things. So I went to Xbox Wire, which is of course their version of PlayStation bllogs, so like their official mouthpiece. And they have a grand Fo six preordders thing up, but it It links directly to the store page It seems like they're constrained from writing anything about it. Meanwhile, PlayStation has this whole blog post co written by Rockstar U that says Graan ther of six plays best on PS five November nineteenth They released these images. This is as funny as fuck So they reallyle, did you see this holding about the images getting deleted? So They releasase these images across all their whole fleet of social media And It's this this image of the PlayStation logo. It says play Plays best on the GTA logo and then a picture of the PlayStation five and all this stuff And then they deleted all of these posts right And and people like they they Somet something's uperers Rock star' mad about something and I'm like, no I didn't say this to anyone, but I went to the PlayStation blog and I noticed their shit was still up And I'm like, no First of all, this has been planned for so long. there's no way they're going to make some sort mistake. where it's like how You can't say it plays best on PS five Like like as if they' like that they didn't know They apparently use the wrong GTA logo And they apparently And this is a more notable change is that they they put up the In the original image, it was the disc version of of the PS five whichich is funny because there is no disk for great enoughs physical version. so they replaced it with the digital PS five And then they put it back up U so that is fun. It is a so that's all we know. I mean, there's really nothing else to say about it. They did publish a bunch of screenshots and information on their website. So like there's a lot of like character bios and There's like a ton of shit. I'm not reading or looking at any of that stuff. We've come this far. I don't see why we would even want to know anything about it bigger thing that people are surprised about is as far as I can tell, there's no new trailer Um Again Two things They're different. One is that I'm surprised that there's no new trailer with your pre orders. That's a little weir I like that they're not showing the game But again, do we do you even want to see anything? Like what do you I guess I'm curious. I want to see beat to beat gameplay Like it would be cool to just see five minutes of the game maybe doing a random mission, being in the mission, concluding the mission, ten minutes, whatever. That would be cool to see. But even then I'm totally cool not seeing anything I feel like they understand that if they expose themselves, And they already are getting shit for some of the things that they've done The whole ferrace wheel reflection thing Have you seen this? How there's like an image of like And there's like no reflection of a ferris wheel of water, something that people have Like So it's like they understand they can't win. Right. So I would show as little of it as possible as well. Just to protect it. So anyway, there's a lot of things to cover here, I guess, what's on your mind here about GT six and their peruders for Noveber nineteenth Yeah, man. Well, first I want to say like this this pricing structure is interesting You mentioned that the hundred dollar ultimate addedition locks off certain things. I think there's like a barbber shop that it locks off. there's like a tattoo shop that lotcks stuff that would typically be in standard GTA which which says to me that This game is a hundred dollars They're charging a hundred dollars for this game. Right They're letting you play it. att least partially for eighty. But like this is ostensibly. I mean, like N not oensive because it's seemingly but like I mean, this is basically one hundred dollars price point for the base version of the game that they're calling the ultimate ition for markarketing sake because it'd be weird to have like, I guess it wouldd be weird to have a shhitty version. Yeah I just like gimped Gim to GT A six. But I mean, for all intents and purposes, like, it is a one hundred dollar game. So they are kind of doing it They're doing it in a clever way, I guess But in a way that obfuscates that that's what they're doing, but what they're locking out does not it's's it's not like they're locking out like A day one DLC or something You know what I mean? or like oh, a new chapter of like a post story content that's going to be available with it. It's like it's say, no, this isn't like post. It wasn't even designed to be content that is post game. It is literally like core facet of what is expected in standard GDA that they're cutting off So it seems to be like that's like a discount feature. or a discount version. Yeah, it's an interesting way of putting it. because I do wonder they probably had to internally, as you're saying, it's figure out what we can just hold back without pissing people off. Obviously like the quote unquote, day one DLC shit Maspect three style or it's like this mission really could just be in the game. piss people off. I think GTA five had something like that on PS three Remember Chrly which I think pissed people off So they were like, yeah, it says here in the press release Quote, The Grand Tho six' Ultimate Edition amplifies this experience with an exclusive collection of premium vehicles, weapons, apparel, and action threaded across all aspects of Jason and Lucia's story will' be available for ninety nine, ninety nine. I think they looked and they said, ye Yeah, like we'll cut off like the higher end vehicles, the higher end guns. Um orr like the more boutique stuff I don't know It is interesting and your's a really interesting way of looking at it because I was The twenty dollars seems a little extreme Um for what they're giving away and yet, I think giving away anymore would actually alienate people potentially, Bigger thing that people are surprised about, of course, is the physical version of the game And I'm not so surprised about the way they're handling it. In fact, that's not surprising to me at all, but which is that there is going to be no disk in the box and they're already talking about that. Although there are rumors, and we'll talk about this in a moment too that They will publish a disk December I find that hard to believe just because That seems a little crazy for the a lot of GTA people are going to be uninformed It's going to be the most mass market video game release of all time I would assume So ye. You're going to get all types, right? And you're going to get lots and lots of people don't understand the disc isn't in a box. And then when they find that out, they're going to be like, okay, I guess it's the way it is. And then they're gonna to find out the next month that there's a disc gam. I don't know about that. L I just feel like I'm like I believe one hundred percent there will be a disc or discks, probably. Right. But I don't think it's going to be really quick Yeah, I think so too. That'd be too quick. I think probably maybe I wouldn't even I would even maybe say like a year or something, you know what I mean? Like or like way more Maybe when the PC version comes out. Yeah like time because it' be a special edition. Yeah be like a special edition or whatever. And that way nothing nothing will leak You know, they've they've already gotten all their digital purchases out of the way for all the people that were better going to do it Yeah, the no disk thing is interesting. It is funny that they're they're putting out a box with just a code. Uh that to me is like it's it's a little sad. Although it's funny because like I'm like the the one percent of the audience where I'm like I like having the boxes, but I hate the inconvenience of having a disk, so I might that's actually appealing to me. But just to have something on my shelf and not be constrained by having to like, oh, I gott to go put GTA in the distray now. N But it is a crazy, it is kind of a crazy thing to do. It's not surprising necessarily because that game is like what you figure like no less than three discs Yeah would it would be multiple. I don't presume to I think it would definitely be more than one Yeah because Red Dad too is sh I think on I don't know if it's on PS five it's is Rd into two on PS five like? I don't think there even is a native PS five version of Rd Could be I get I've gotten all my this my games digitally for so long. Let me let me double check, but I'm pretty sure red that two is on notot one disk Um And GTA six, if it's if it's I would just have to imagine that that's like a huge game. Like, what do you think the file size of this game is going to be were there were rumors that it was like half a terabyte or something. I'm like, there's no way. it's that big, but' that' be insane. But like I fig it is less than one hundred fifty though. Yeah, it's gonna to be huge. Yeah, there was some leaked image showing it at like four hundred or something. And I'm like, there's just no way Yeah, it's going to be, it's going be huge. And I I think there was I think there's stuff on the Xbox backke end suggesting that you'll be able to download it in pieces, I guess. in terms of like the story content and then Obviously GTA online comes later, we'll talk all this more extensively, but T get more to the physical edition stuff Zeron twenty one wrote in said Hello,oll and note. After the announcement of GA six as an eighty dollars game with no physical release, big waste of plastic just for a code, in my opinion. I want to express my premature or premature disappointment in rockstar Yes, they have everything to lose with a disc, but I argue that I do not care It is not our fault they spend so much money on making it. I reasonably expected a perfect game and release, and I'm already disappointed Maybe they will do a physical release later, but it already took the wind out of my sas a little. Thanks for teaching me how to wipe as always Zer on twenty one, you're very welcome. Thank you for writing in I understand their perspective. I just think what I would have done is say like we're not doing a physical version We'll do one later That's like all I would have said. Instead of doing this patronizing, like here's a case And again, like you like this and that's cool. But like it's not even that I like it. It's just like it it is convenient for me in a way that it's convenient for probably like nobody else. Right, rightight. And I understand that. I'm a very weird use case in this in this situation They should just like I wish they were just more upfront because I feel like I understand people are like, a lot of people think it's the control use sales I'm like, I don't Maybe I don't know about that. Like I think that that's a consideration with every game they release. Why would that be an especially acute consideration with Grand Eft Auto, which is probably going to be not resold per capita the way other games are re sosold because it's going to be a huge game that people are going to hold on to. It's like to me I don't see how that calculates any more important here. That that to me just doesn't make any sense. I really think that it's two things, although people think it's even other things. One is that think they're afraid it's going to leak and I would say that there is a one hundred percent chance the discs would walk off the floor As I noted on Twitter when I just was thinking about it, I'm like You have to understand the financial incentive is going to be huge People will probably pay Walk off the floor of you have an early copy of GrandFft Auto, like a month early, three weeks early. and you can do you're going to get fucking copyright struck up the wazoo and probably sued. If you're if you're you're like, what is that worth? Tens of thousands of dollars probably You don't think people are going Do that So And then people say like, well, they can lock it. And I'm like, so you want the single player game to be always on the line So like your solution to the disc like The solution to that is to do what the other thing that everyone hates Yeah, like it's I don't understand that either That doesn't make any sense. So I think a lot of it has to do with I know Grand Theft Auto has leaked, or Grand Theft Auto six has leaked in different ways, but actually it really hasn't. Considering the amount of the sheer number of people who haveve had access to this game Thousands of people have worked on it overver the years I would say it's probably gotten in and like think about the companies that are licensing, the people that are in the meetings, the all you're talking about probably ten thousand people exposed to this product in some meaningful way that is not public And we don't we don't know almost nothing about it, really? mean at the end of the day And I think that they look at it and say like it would be a real fucking shame. If three weeks or ten days before the game comes out. shit start popping up The only way we can control that is if we literally give no one access to it except for through the PSN and the Xbox store. at the time of release And so they're doing that I wonder There is a preload that begins september twelfth, and my assumption is that that's when reviewers will get access to it And that's when I think they can kind of withstand more of the spoiler stuff that's going to happen You know this because we got Red deead two when we still got games early. likeike Rockstar is still the only now I know IGN and kind of funny probably signed company wide NDAs for us at times But Rockstar is the only company I ever dealt with that made you sign in India If you wanted access to the game Yeah And so they're dead ass serious about it. I don't think people understand like As I noted when I was in journalism, when Grand Theft Auto four came out, instead of mailing copies to reviewers, they sent people on the plane to hand deliver them because they were afraid they would get stolen. And they probably would have if people knew what they were at that time. So It's really vital that like people understand that level of it. It's not just like this little thing to them And it's not just a little thing. it can affect the perception of the game in a major way Again, I just don't understand why they're like, And by the way, Chris, I think they could just say that We believe You don't want to implicate people, right? But like it's like Putting Grand theft Auto six on a disk before it's out is a security concern for us. And we are taking your experience seriously. So our promise to you is like Q one, we're publishing diss. and if you want to wait until then For the sanctity of the experience and the game, we're doing it digital only at first And that's why I think that they could just have done that. Instead, they wanted to have their cake and eat it too. And by the way People buy the millions are gonna to let them have their cake and eated too. I bet you they sell fucking what five million copies of that fucking case So yeah att launch M people are going buy it digitally The other thing that think too is that Take to itself says that only three percent of its income, its gross income comes from physical goods they don't give a sh as well. It's also worth noting that Um The funny thing is that the most this is the funny thing, Chris is like the The cost of manufacture, like to put discs in the case is like pennies per game Right They're making the case They've done all of that and they're shipping it. which is the major cost If I can get If I can publish a thousand copies of a PS four game or a PS five game, which I can for under ten dollars a unit, boxed, sealed and shipped What do you think Rockstar can do No, yeah, exactly, right The thing too about that is that like, u I want because shipping is usually determined by weight, right? Like the pricing of shipping is usually weight Aab I know that because like that's why that's why Snapple went to plastic set of glass. So Do you like What What is a diskay relative to the case That would make it You you know what I mean? Likeike how much money theyving are they saving by shipping case without a disk. Yeah now people still being interested in it Yeah likeike I don't know. it's just weird it's weird. Iview I just think that from that perspective, they could just handle that way better. Um Oh yes. I think they I do think though that they are a they it's two things. I mean, it's the unfortunate reality is that It would probably materially affect them at launch. I don't think it would materially affect them overall because they're not going to drop the price of the game. and then when that copy of the game comes out, people will buy it They probably wantoned that full burst. at launch so they can release their press release of X amount million numbers sold in twenty four hours, which they're going to do or pre orer numbers, which they're going to do And the other fact is that though there's no disc in the case, I bet you nine out of ten physical copy, people are still going to buy it So yeah not a percent. So there's that Let's talk a little bit about the u rice A very special boy rode in said hi call and Chr What are all these people complaining about? GTA six is one of the most expensive games ever produced. Do gamers have absolutely no concept of economics Um, they don't. GJ six is now Yeah Oh you said it right. GTA six is the most expensive gameer produce. I mean by a mile I would be, I guess Star citizen is probably number two. mayaybe if you took the cumulative development of a game like World of Warcraft or Minecraft or something maybe or like some of these gotcha games that have been around for a while or whatever. But like, yeah, you're talking about a number That is unmet buy any product. and yeah, and eighty dollars is maybe the game fucking sucks, dude. I mean I have no idea. but like you would imagine based on what I think it is that eighty dollars is a steal Um, I think they still could have gone seventy. I think sixty was a pipe dream I think if you're complaining about an I think if the difference someone wrote in about this actually, it's and and you don't say it to be mean, but it's true. It's like If the difference between a seventy and eighty dollars game is breaking the bank for you, you probably just shouldn't buy the game And that that to me, I think is is true. like Yeah, that is true It's just smart. It's just smart If that ten dollars is really everything to you, then just keep all seventy or eighti of it in my opinion. and wait for a discount or buy a different game This to me, I will say, though, Chris, I've tried to read people's responses and see how people feel I don't know people peopleople are not too gased by the eight dollar price point I think mostly because they're not the one to breach it Nintendo, really was the one to do it. Yeah, Mario Cark did it. right Um with a which would by the way eight dollars for Marioart. likeike God bless Mario Cart. That's kind of wild But like a gamameess value is like, I don't know. peopleeople value games so differently. likeike I would argue I've gotten well over a hundred dollars in value from most of the games that I love, you know? Like So like its it really is just a like reed Dad two, I've gotten way more than hundred dollars in value. And I got that for Bs But like I would well, I did buy it on Xbox as well to just to buy it Yeah, I don't know. I just feel like I get why people are hesitant because A, money' exceptionally tight now. Everything is going up in price. There's a feeling generally that for a while now in this industry, we've been getting ripped off, whether that's valid or not In some cases, it is, in some cases, it isn't. There have been games sold under false pretenses that people never got refunds for. There are games that have been dissected and cut apart and sold piecemeal for hyperinflated prices. Like that is something that is real MTX is kind of everywhere. So like I the feeling of being on guard and being being like, oh man, I don't want to you know, feeling like everything's a rip off, but I don't know, Rockstar, in my opinion. And by the way, I'm not even necessarily the biggest fan of everything Rockstars ever made But like, As of late, I feel like they've earned some level of I don't want to say faith necessarily, but I don't know what what other word would work best. But like they've earned some level of good faith players end to understand that they're going to deliver something that's definitely at least worth the price of a full game. I just don't see like after read the two And GJA five, like I didn't go well with GJ five to be honest, but like GJ four I think it's like exceptionally Like I think it's it's so good.. I'm underrated in my opinion. Yeah, peoplee don't talk about it as much as they They talk about even Vice City and San Andreas, which are both awesome Yeah, I think I think it's the wor one, arguably I think for is easy like by a mile. I think it's easily the best way. But I mean, that's subjective or whatever, but like, you know, GJ four is fantastic. GJ five is like a not to my taste, but it's a phenomenon. Red Dead two is. Fucking exceptional U I just don't have a lot of Like they've earned enough goodwill for me to be like, yeah, I'll pay eighty bucks or I'll pay a hundred of bucks for whatever it is you're cooking Now It could suck That's very possible. and then you know,' we'll get to we'll cross that bridge when when we come to it if it's if it so happens to be that way, but I just think people are on guard because they think like a lot of other companies are going to try to do this shit. And by the way, let them try Let them try let Ubisoft try Chs Charge a hundred dollars for the for what is essentially the base version of Fucking Star Wars outlaws too. Let's see how how well that goes Um I just don't think other people are going to get away with it to the same degree because I think there's the same level of pedagree. I don't think there's the same level of goodwill. I don't think there's the same level of u Interest, quite frankly. Yeah I wrote a little song to remind you, Choice Hotels gets you more of the experiences You val.. The Cambria hotel's got it all. a rooftop ball, Hal a ball. Ccktails up and feel just right C' bring are homeazing Allright Bring a date, your team, or even your mom, book direct at chooyales dot com see all the roood I'm okay with it really On that on that note, Shadi Hadad wrote into us and said, guys, this feels like it could be a turning point GTA six's eighty dollar price tag is certainly going to give clearance for eighty dollars to be the new norm due to market conditions. Rockstar locking out key features behind the one hundred dollars Deluxe edition, knowing that most will pay the extra twenty dollars for a more complete experience may provide the path for publishers to get better ROI on game development costs preremium additions being the more complete versions of games. this is what you werere saying earlier Not only that, but the boldness of shipping digitally only may only may also increase the trend of making physical games ship with a code as the new standard. Rockstar is big enough to lead the charge on industry wide changes. Who else do you see following soup by the time PS six launches at the end of twenty twenty seven? presresumably? as a digital console It's important to remember, PS six will launch as a natively digital console, which PS five is too. there will be a dis drive for it obbviously Trump So I want to I want to be clear like Listen, the digital game, I mean, come on I'm so sick of having the physical versus digital games thing. It's like we all know where this is going. I just don't think they're ever going to throw the physical people away I don't think it's going to be an An expectation anymore that you're going to get what you want necessarily anymore. It' like a boutique like enthusiast kind of aspect to the hobby, I think. It's the same way that vinyls. like vinyl are vinys are still huge and they're still big. But they're not the default medium anymore. And so like now you're going to have to you know, It's a lot more convenient for most people to listen to music on streaming or downloading MB three or whatever But there's always going to be a market for people to have their own like record tables and you know, their own sound systems and their high fs and and their physical Uh, records, like that's that's always going to be a thing. If it's true for music Today then it's certainly going to be true for video games for a long time So no I think people should stop worrying about being able to like, you'll have your disk drives. Yeah thing for you'll have to buy them As you do now Um Yeahah, I justt that's not the point of his message. I just wanted to note that like, don't worry about that. I agree with Chris. It's like that it will be a digital console, but so too is the PS five you still have the option of putting a disk drive in it But to Chris's point, Shadi, I think you are way too optimistic about others following suit on this right now I think there could be a generational push. Was it Call of duty? That was the first game that chargeed sixty dollars back in the day on It's got to be a big player. It already has been with Mario Card. We saw that the Oer Worlds to attempted it and then walked it back because This is exactly what would happen to most games that tried it right now, which is that like, there's no way I'm paying eighty dollars for that game just on principle Aain, I don't think it's even the ten dollars difference being that much meaning having meaning to people as it's the principal Do you see answer Uh, it says there's no there's no u single first one, but Call Dy two is one of them. Right. And I think and Mad in zero six Yeah. So it was three hundred sixty fifty Yeah, yeah, three hundred sixty basically Right. one So forty to forty nine to fifty nine. Right. Okaykay So Yeah, you need some either generational like The generational things is going to even be tough because I assuming most games are going to be PS five PS cross Gen, it's like you're gonna just charge ten dollars more for the PS six version.ike I don't think can get away with that e There is this This lack of flexibility in I think the base player's mind about economics. This is what was being asked about a very special boy earlier, but like people have no concept of economics and the answer is like, no Not really, but I also do agree that like is it really their problem? If they're the market, then you kind of have to learn to meet them or you're just not going to be able to sell anything. And so that's not really their problem. That's the provider's problem. And What Grand Theft Auto gets away with what Mario Kart got away with is not what most games are gonna to get away with. Maybe there would be some Sony property that can get away with it, but I'm not even sure any Sony game would get away with even if even if it was like something Like when God of War comes out next year or Wolverine later this year al know Wolverine Coss it's They're not going to charge eight dollars for those games. I don't think people are going have tolerance for that. but eventually What you might have to do is just make everything a certain, you know, in other words, not everything, but like a the AAA baseline price raises like it did during that three hundred sixty era and you create a new high end baseline. And then if you want to surpass that then like you do these special editions that get you a hundred dollars, if that's what you want to do. Um But I'm not worried about people following suit in the short to midterm because again, I just I think people will continue to explore the scale And eighty dollars is still going to be a bridge too far. I think I would just love to know what they think they could have gotten away with and. Well, we'll get to this point next and we'll talk next about this this ultimate addition that we brought up. Alabama, Arkansas wrote and it said, Hey CDC We finally can put the GTA six price speculation to rest I would argue it is a hundred dollars game since the ultimate Edition has lots of content you won't be able to access without it Also, lots of people want to experience this game in its entirety and not miss out on any content How do you guys feel about the price? We'll be picking up the hundred dollars ultimate dition? you and I already said that we will get the one hundred dollarars ultimate ition. I suspect Dustin will as well. What I'm curious about is what the split cumulatively with the fanbase is going to be Be I bet you it will probably won't be half It will be a lot of people are going to get that hundred dollararsvers. They're going to budget of a normal AA game just in probably that extra increase of dollars. So what' have to do when they start releasing they'll probably be like Grand Auto sells blah. makes X in however many days, and then we'll have to start doing the math and we probably won't have all the data to even be able to do it effectively. We might be able to figure out And also What's Sony's deal with them Um Yeah. Is it a Is it a marketing deal that Sony paid for Is Sony getting access to GTA six in a special way for a better split on the PlayStation store Like there's all these different options. I think people assume that it's like either lump sum or, you know these period payments of X and Y and Z as you go further and further into the marketing beats and you kind of take that off of Rockstar's books in exchange for access to this world changing game but I wonder if it's something even more simple Like when we sell a game, when we sell GTA, we get eighty five percent or something like that. Yeah Sony still wins in a major way, in every way I don't know. I'm always curious it's so tightlift about that reasonably so Ab that latch it is. how that works? Yeah they I mean, they probably have some some deal in place. I mean, dude, like didn't they update the PS app logo to be GTA or something L saw I didn't didn't fact check any of this, but I saw like a bunch of I think it has its own bespoke animation on the He has five homepage. I also saw Th these things could be fake. No I saw that too. I didn't I didn't notice that. Well, my Playsttation wast was sleeping. so I don't even know. But yeah, if you apparently go to The storefront, there's like a special Or with the welcome screen I guess, there's like a special animation with the Roman numumeral six and all the rest. and yeah, my app hasn't updated yet, but I actually think I have to manually update my apps. So Oh yeah, I should try to see if I can do that. I can verify right now Yeah, but I think they clearly have something. A big thing for them though is that like if they have that deal like Like my my curiosity is is the marketing deal like like let's say maybe the split for the game is Normal But like the MT X split Hm like the sharark cards. I wonder if because they know now that it's so huge. I wonder if they're like, listen, we want We want like ninety or li like some crazy deal on the MT X, the little the chip damage Like I that could be part of it too. Like they definitely have some kind of special deal. Like if they have this own co written right up on the PlayStation bllog, if they have like this bespoke animation on the Playsttation home Pays best on PS five likeike there's undoubtedly some kind of deal in place Um and Rockstar has the leverage to do it, I think. Granted, Sony also has leverage because there's the only real place for them to go if they're not going to go to PC. Um ' Xbox is kind of floundering So like they both have some leverage, but I think there's got toa be some special deal in place Yeah, I'll be I'd be very curious to know about that because that's such a huge 's huge huge. I don't, I think there was I mean, if you're rockstar, you're not going to go with Xbox at this point. They they were with Xbox during the GTA four era. that worked out really well for them. Rember Tattoo. D? Yeah, G Who is that more Yeah I want to say fill more, but that's not right Peter Peter is Peterore? Yeah? Peterore 'Cause that was when he was moving around, you know, he was moving between these companies. U ridiculous And that was huge. I mean, and they had ballted with Gay Tony and lost in the damned exclusive the three hundred sixty and that worked out awesome for them Yeah, I think they ran better too. likeike it was it was a good deal. It was a good they hadony so good. But Sony came back in with five as you remember and they were there and then the PS four had like the PS four GTA version and then And I so I think that the best would have been At best it would have been neutral U But at most Sony wanted to get in bed with them, but I'm wonder I'm w you wonder what the price is too about like It's a huge thing, and yet because your competition has seemed so disabled, was it even worth it, you'll have to see it play out because it might have just been that your console would have been the defaall place for this thing really for most people anyway. The big thing I want to see and they haven't said anything about this yet and I wonder if they will, and maybe it's a lot of it has to do pricing uncertainty and all rest is like, will there be a bund? because That to me is like the big thing for Sony But you think you would want to say that You can't say it too soon But then like you have pre orders. peoplee are kind of preorder and I guess they wouldn't prove it if they didn't have the console. So it kind of does all work out now that I'm talking through it. So you could announce that Later, September or something. and And you also don't want to get in the way of Wolverine So maybe even after that That's a big thing. I wonder because if there's a PS five. Imagine a subsidized copy of Grand D Autero six basically and a new PS like you basically get the game for free That would be huge. That would also be Although like men Are they even I guess this's a bundle It's not like a special dition console or anything. Yeah, nothing like I'm not saying anything. Yeah, justust like something like what, you know, we always make fun of it. They'll just put a new sleeve They they'll like they'll have their workers open the boxes and put a slip in with the code. They'll put on a new sleeve and they'll sell it as the gnd the Tho version What a bumber man Uh, we sed so good I u Yeah, I mean, that that could be huge. I think I don't know. Do do they need it? And also like is hardware W be sm I don't know. I I would love to be a fly on the wall. for these conversations. Like like what are they getting Like you said, like, Playtation would have been the default place anyway. So like they could have theoretically did a Microsoft deal? of no detriment to them really at all Um I don't know, man Yeah, it must it must significantly allay some costs for M for Rckstar because as we were saying, like leading up to things as we prognosticated for years about this now is I was like, if Roxard kind of just leverageed both sides you can both do whatever you want Yeah You can both have bundles. you can both like have these like, we write things on both your websites but that like I'm like, don't we don't give a I think so I think Sony probably came to them I'm like, we'll take a major portion of like Well don't even worry abouteting the game That's hundreds of millions dollars Now It's probably not quite that straightforward All right, what else here Um Home cooked meals wrote in about something interesting here says, Hi, Colin, Chris With all the hoopwa around GTA six preordders, I noticed the PayStation storeAQ says GTA six is a single player experience in quotes when asked about multiplayer, which I assume is Rckockstar approved language. It's not Rockstar approved. I mean Rock starars putting that stuff in themselves So what do you think that means for the next GTA online? is online just coming later as a free update to GTA six, like they with GTA five or Could Rockstar treat it more like its own standalone thing this time And since it launches later, will that become a second release date bomb that other publishers have to get out of the way of after already avoiding GT six itself I went back and looked, GTAMline at least a few weeks later, I think I during GTK five and I think it took a few months for Red Dead to. Come on Yeah I think they do that intentionally. It might be that things are not ready, but I think they do that intentionally to let people play the game And then and they're not distracted by because I always do find that peculiar to each their own because I think Micah does this shit is like you buy callall of duty and then you don't even play the campaign. Now that's cool, but it's like it's like take a moment Take a moment. Yeah. smmell the rises You know and get acclimated to the world. I think that's going to be especially important here. So I assume they'll just have something to say about that later. and my assumption is you'll know before the game comes out, what they're going to do with GTA online because it is a massive component of what' what they're going to be doing. But the single player stuff, I They are leaning into it being single player, which is exciting because it goes to show you like, yeah, we're getting back to our roots. and Chris, you and I have lamented this. We were just talking about these GTA fours, like you got to have a pipeline for single player content Like you got to keep that coming. There's really no excuse for that. I understand GTA five GT five's GTA online became his runaway train Man Some of the best stuff in GK forward was from the expansions And to keep that world alive, I really feel like they're going to try to thread the needle this time, which is very exciting from my perspective So yeah, what do you think about this? What do you thinks going to happen with GTA online Yeah, I mean, I see no reason to assume that it'll be U too different of a cadence that they've had with GTA Online and read it Online previously. I do think I could be wrong. I feel like they did eventually decouple GTA Online from GTA Five Like I feel like you can just download GT onnline now It didn't used to be that. Yeah ye. And like I said, the Xbox packaging, it seems like they're going to do the same thing with this game. Yeah. so I think I think it could be a standalone thing that maybe you get access to if you own like I don't really know how they're going to do it. it's curious about it, but it's definitely going to come later. It's definitely going to come and it's definitely going to be huge Um I would argue it's going to be way way more supportive than Red Dad online. Red Dead onnline's always been kind of like a Kind of like an afterthought whichich by the way is not even like a bad thing It's just like it's how multiplayer used to be and it's It's all Red Dead really demands in comparison Uh given the success rate But like I do I wonder how long it'll be. because I don't think it'll be weeks But I also don't think it'll be Mth seems too long. I don't It's such a big Big big thing and it will be another splash for people to have to to worry about For sure, especially in live service if you've got like A multipayer game coming out at some point. afterfter GT six and you thought you avided it.magually it comes in Febru Yeah, Oh my God. that would be I wonder if they'll try to do it in time for like Christmas break. That would be kind of cool That would be smart like everyone's off. you're off from school, you're hanging out with your family, go go dick around with this thing but I don't know. You could look at it, I mean, if you want to be pessimistic, you could look at it and say like it's not ready I will say I don't know if that's true though. and I will say that I believe I should have said this earlier that I believe another reason they're not putting the game on disk. I think the leaks are sub, you know, are adequate, but like They don't really have to commit to a one point zer version until very late Like really late they're allowing orders november twelfth. I think the game comes out november nineteenth. You don't really even have to certify it until probably Well you're going to pass certification, you can patch it endlessly and not release the packages, I guess, but like They'll probably be working on the game in a major way. I mean, they're going toviously be working on through launch. but I'm saying is like they're not ready to commit to anything And So you could look at it through that lens too That way it's the shit or get off the pop moment. It's probably very stressful there right now would assume So I don't know, m'. We'll see what goes on with that. And finally, land in Keythre in and said hello, my crrash out Kin Colon and Christop Raymondo, Gunsmith Higgins price of GA announced today I was thinking about people's expectations for this game especially with releasing single player only first, as has been done in previous Rckar releases How annoying and loud is discourse going to be a launch There exists an entire generation who only know GTA five and GTA roleplay servers that took off in the early twenty twenty. So I have to imagine that expectations though already high because Rockstar's high quality are above and beyond due to the interactivity of these modded RP servers goingo in most buildings, being full on cops, convenience store clerks, etcera A lot of these people don't know what GTA actually is So while we should expect high quality from Rockstar, I think a lot of people are going to be unaware of what they will be getting Thoughts, gentlemen, appreciate you guys greatly. Much love from Portland, Oregon War zone Thank you for writing in There's this is an interesting component of it, but I think you're kind of overestimating people's ignorance in a way I think people understand that these things sprout off of a different product and that if you're restarting the product, you start from its core bigger problem with the response to it is not going to be from these people. It's just going to be from everyone You have to understand that like it's going to be insufferable For reasons that you can't even comprehend human What did Nicola Tesla say like man madeade horrors beyond your beyond your comprehension Yeah. It's going to be bad People are going to be annoying as fuck I will say this, it is one of those I don't like the niicky shit. Remember people were like there was a video going around a first lightight where they were on like a car sequence and they were just running into the guy and he wasn't responding ic dude. It's like an on rails ks you're going from point A to point B. This game feel like you should kind of tear itpart and try to find the seams and see what works and what doesn't. Like it's u the most ambitious and most expensive gaming product of all time. so People should be a little annoying, I think, about it. And I'll be very interested to see how much it stands up to scrutiny And I think that's going to be the biggest thing that they have to solve for The scrutiny of over the game is going to be enormous. Oh my god I'll be looking Yeah, I'll be I'll be interested to see like just sticking around with it and seeing like Red Dead two set a very high expectation, I think for peop's for what they like the level of ridiculous immersion in the game and like the small things And that's really impressive in that game. I think when you're in an urban setting with lots more people It's going to be much more challenging to he that up And people will find What's wrong with it? No doubt. And again, I also believe that's why they're not putting it on PC There's really no way. likeike it's cool to have a console experience, but they want the locked experience don't why you fucking it Easily. Yeah. no way And You know that they're serious about that because they're sacrificing a lot of money at launch for that They would sell enormous numbers of millions of copies on PCL launch So They know what they're doing All of this is a very controlled and orchestrated thing. in a way that games typically aren't treated because there's no reason to treat a hundred million dollars game like that or a fifty million dollar game like that or even worth three inter mionllar game you want to take care of it treat it well, you don't need to care for it to this level, but man They don't want you to see it So that's the big news, go preorder GTA if you want. I have no idea why you' pre orer a digital game, but you can do that Everyone who preorders the game right before it comes out will get also I think it's in the Yeah, you get like, oh, vintage Vice City Pack, a collection of items that flashback to when the neon burn brightest So we will all go back and what is it Leonida? Is that what it's called? Am I saying that right? I think so. yeah Um November nineteenth, preorder or I'm sorry Preloading begins november twelfth, prereloading begins november twelfth for the codes in the box as well. So if you buy one of those Open up surprise. It's an alphanumeric code and you're going to put it into PSN And it's going to be very exciting for you I will pre order it when the preloading begins. Let's know. getet away from pre ordering digital gam. Dude, I saw callall of Duty. Now I don't know how accurate this is because there's probably a bunch of things feeding through it, but for callall Duty modern Warfare four, it said there were like two hundred preordders on my friend's list Michael really What are we doing What are we doing guys Fucking buy it Right before it comes out. I don't wanter games. So I understand that, but it was physical games. likeike your game stop or your EB would get X amount of copies of games, especially for the obscure fucking Japanese bullshit I was buying You know Yeah. Like and they' probably the only copy of fucking tales of Eernia they would get. You know, um but now, it's like preordders Yeah. It's insane to do it now. likeike it makes it like I used to When I pre orered games, it was it was because I wanted a physical copy to make sure I had Or I think like early on when I was going all digital, I would preorder out of a force of habit sometimes, I think. For the first couple years, it's like o Oh, yeah, I want this game out preordder it because that's what we did. And then I thought like, ah There's no real reason to do this, hu now it's just like if I preorder now, it's usually like day before the game comes out. so I'm basically just buying it so I don't have to deal with it later. And there's always like usually some like bits or bobble, you know, some pre order bonus or whatever that comes along with it that I don't normally care about but I'm like, ye It's like two hours before it goes live, I'll just buy it now. Yeah, you get the same bonus and the same perk typically. They typically don't take those perks down until the game actually launches. So like yeah Give them the money six months in advance or six hours in advance. The only the only difference is or the early access stuff. That I will go If I think I've only gotten got once or twice I guess it's twice And you do that right before the early acis begins. Yeah. I just don't want to send them. I mean, it's just it's just me, but I don't want to send them the data that this is like, yeah. No I agree you. I don't I just don't I don't I don't get it. I don't understand the rush to do that at all E especially and people have been bringing this up and I think it's Pally a valid point. It's like G guess end's a little dodgy right now Why don't you you know, why don't you wait Let's see what happens Oh man, what are the od of this thing crashes You know, like it's just like this do you think it crashed the BSA? do you think? Maybe. I mean, Dude, just from a security point of view, like I hope Sony understands The time to fuck with them would be then And it could really fuck their shit up bad Soopefully I hopeullyXox is on guard for that. I mean, it's I don't know what you would do DDOSing and doing all this thing to fucking clog up the because it's all digital. Pe are all going to be downloading the package. The package is going to be hundreds of gigabytes You know, it's it is it I wonder, Chris, it's interesting. Remember they used to tell the stories about Like DragonQest in Japan about how like they had to stop releasingraon Qest on weeknddays because like people would skip school That's why Dragquest games com out on Sundays or like when a Space Maders came out they were running out of like five yen coins and show like that. I wonder if in here in the States and other Western Europe, other places of like mature interternet infrastructure, if like it'll be Like fifteen percent of American bandwidth today was downloading Grandft Auto six kind of thing moreore like some substantial thing. I think that that would be an interesting little new story. That would be cool. That would actually be an interesting PR thing. for them to feed. big we are It's exciting, man. It's It is very exciting. It's the beginning No early access either, which I'm not surprised by just based on their like the secrecy. although that would be like the way you want to get You want to get got How a hundred dollars thing give you three days early access? . then you'll really fucking get people. but they're not doing it. I give them credit for that could be a sign that they're coming close to the wire though with this thing as well That is true It's crazy to me that they're not doing it because like That's a completely sound strategy, I think, if you've got something cool or interesting If it's a lot of games I'm surprised aren't doing or that haven't done it. Yeah me you could have easily, you could have got me Yeah, and you just didn't if basically any game that I truly care about, I'll do it att this point. Yeah. Like if Mega Man twelve or the Castlevania game or whatever, if they had I'd be like yeah, right I love it, I love it enough to do that. What did I get got with? I got with Sarows and I think there was There was something else, but I don't remember what it was, and I was happy with both of those things was like,ah that's I'm fine with this. I don't feel like I got abused and used in any way If control, I don't know if contontrol residents doing it, but that'll get me If they had like a if they had a three day early access thing, I would I would have done that let me see Maybe they do Yeah, I think controlled forty eight hour early access it's exclusive to PS five. I remember reading that like that it's actually only on PS five that you can do that which Sony so shady That is crazy right Next piece of news is not good news, although it's not surprising news. We knew this was happening And u It seemed like it was going to happen this week. so Sony released a statement from Sonyinteractive d. com. so you know what it's serious. This is on Playsttation blog ays an update from PlayStation St stududios And I likeed the URL, by the way, it says an update from Playtation stududios too because there was another update Plstation stududios It says below is an internal email from Herman Holstz, CEO of the studio business group, Sony Interactive Entertment distributed today to SIE employees He writes Dear team Today, I want to share a difficult update regarding Bungie We have made the decision to reduce Bungie's workforce affecting a significant number of employees, including most of the Destiny team and some marathon team members There are also reductions across SITam that support Bungie's operations Those impacted at Bungey end with an SIE are being informed today. This is painful news, especially for talented colleagues whose roles have been eliminated This decision was made only after extensive discussion and careful consideration, and I want to provide some context on how we arrived here. Over the past several months, together with Bungie leadership, we reviewed the studio's long term direction, development priorities, resource needs and role within our broader portfolio strategy We explored multiple alternatives before concluding that a reduction was necessary to align the studio's resources with its current priorities and long term goals As Bungie recently shared in its destiny to update, the studio has begun a new journey following the release of the game's final live service content update What Bungie has accomplished with Destiny over the past decade has been truly remarkable The franchis has left a lasting mark on players and the industry and everyone who contributed to its success should be proud of what they helped create Marathon remains an important part of our portfolio and we will continue to support the team and as they build on a strong foundation established in seasons one and two and as they work on incubation efforts for future projects While it's too early to discuss, we are encouraged by the creativity and opportunities that lie ahead. Our immediate priority is supporting affected employees through this transition We are providing transition, support, and where possible working to identify opportunities across SIE and our global network of studios I want to sincerely thank every affected employee for their work. The hardware creativity and contributions to Bungie SAE and the broader gaming community I know today's news is deeply difficult, not only for those leaving, but for those colleagues and friends that remain Please take the time you need to process the news and support one another Thank you for your resilience and continued support during this difficult time So That's that. they don't share numbers, but the word is it's hundreds of people. I would assume it's got to be at least half the staff Right or if not born. Yeah. I would assume So a huge bloodletting, not a massive surprise considering Um, Yeah, justust considering the situation that they were in Sam Hammond wrote in and said, Colony Chris, my lords With the recently announced bungie layoff, what do you think this means for the future of Marathon and Bungie as a company? My understanding is that the layoffs were primarily focused on the destiny side of the studio, but I'm sure it doesn't bode well for overall morale Just recently they removed Marathon's de facto solo PVE mode, which many players seem to genuinely enjoy and the community responses have been overwhelmingly negative. F feels like the studio has been stumbling from one controversy to the next someone who genuinely loves Bungie and has had been having a great time with Marathon. as a bummer What do you think is actually going on behind the scenes? Is this the beginning of the end You'll get deep into this next week with your Sacrered Smbol pllus episode Let's beginning to talk about it now. what are your thoughts here about the layoffs and what the future might hold for this team that you love as well? Yeah, I mean, unfortunate, not surprising. Like you said, this has been rumored for a while and sense basically confirm. Um for a while now. I was just wondering what it was going to happen the exact headcount would be what the teams would be affected. I mean we obviously, would be the destiny team, but like how much of the marathon team is affected. I'm curious about that. Uh ye Yeah, man, it's a bummer It's a bummer especially because Destiny twoo is in like the best place it's been in a while. Like I think it's I think it's regularly got. one hundred thousand concurrerence. I think on steam And Steam is actually, I think Destiny's like lowest performing platform. So I think it's actually closer to probably like three hundred K or something Um At least as far as like broader Um broader player numbers on all platforms go. So it's like it is I don't I don't know, man. I understand that Destiny is an expensive game to maintain and I love I think Marathon is exceptional. I think it's really, really good. But it is confusing to me to see I guess it's this is just basically them But this is basically soony being like we don't really want live service anymore, right This is kind of like because like if if you put it from this perspective, if you have a game like Destiny two that is expensive to maintain at its current level, wouldn't you wouldn't you look at like one hundred K concurrence and see like Maybe we could just keep this going for like cheaper instead of focusing on like fair games or something, which in like just has no shot reallyally Yeah doing a quarter of that. So like I'm a little confused at their direction because they seem to have these wheels spinning in lifeve service But at the same time they're kind of shhooting in the foot, their only real foothold in that space And again, it's not to say that Bungie or Destiny has been well managed, it certainly hasn't. It's a very high quality game that a lot of people are happy with, and I don't think it would demand a lot to keep going and keep making money from relative to the amount of effort that it would take to spool up something like fair games or even something or even really retrofitting marathon to be this load bearing pillar for the studio that it was never really intended intended to be U Marathon seems like it was always supposed to be like a thing that was going alongside Destiny and probably alongside their incubation project that was gummy bears that was since spun off into its own internal SIE studio now Um So it's unfortunate because I think people are the unfortunate thing about Marathon is that like it's very good, but it's also in a position that it has no business being in, which is like the load bearing pillar for the studio. And it's It's not really how it should be looked at either, but it is because that's the position that it's in And u I don't know. It could be the beginning of the end, which would be a bumber, but I mean We're in I don't want to say unprecedented times becausecause it's not necessarily true, but it's Th everything's harder now man. It's it's everything's expensive, notothing's going particularly well as far as like Budgets exploding and costs rising It's getting to the point now where even great games are not good enough And that I think is like it's going that's going to keep going I think It was a while back now that it got to the point where good games weren't good enough Now great games are not good enough Now it's it's just The highest performing Um lowest cost So Indian and Indian quadrule basically are like, o yeah, you have your wolverines and your your intergalactics. And then you have like your peaks Or like your', um, what is it? uh Y friend slob kind of, you know, success stories or like bilatros or something like that. this this middle area that exists for novel kind of experimental relatively high budget things is just kind of like, I don't know. I think I think it's just kind of going away emember, that's my favorite Yeah, it's you think? It's funny Chr because I was trying to give analogy of like Bungie with me and you, it's like having a mutual friend or like knowing a mutual person And one of the one of the one of us really likes them Right? And one of them is likey kind of Sky kind of is annoying me. like kind of ruining our friend group or wh whatever weird clumsy analogy, wherein I feel like I'm talking shit about a friend's friend You know what I mean? And that if that makes any sense, that I mean, I would agree with probably most of the stuff that you would say about it. Yeah, I know. I just it's like I know you and other people really, really cog and other people really care about Bungie and really care about Destiny or cared about Destiny and marathons obviously, you know I think Marathon's really cool. If they do a free weekend with Marathon when they release that new PV even, I'm not paying for I'm not going to pay for it without trying it first but I' I'll definitely do it 'use that's yeah, because I think the gameplay in the world looks awesome. And I love first person shooters I am So It's almost like what is there left to even say about this They they this was an awful idea to get involved in this and it was from the beginning And Sony did itself no favors There's this whole part of Bungie This whole part of talking about bungie wear and like it seems like they fleeced Sony Um I think that's true. I don't know, I think that's true too But I don't know that I blame them That happens in mergers and acquisitions all the time and it's up to the acquirer to not get fucking fleece, especially when you're Sony Yeah because I think Microsoft actually didn't Right? Like I think I think I remember a story, like like Microsoft was in talks to like when they were looking for a buyer. or when one bunch was looking for buyer, Microsoft like didn't want it because I think they looked they they knew or something or like they looked into it deeper. Right were which is crazy because they were they were looking for everybody It seems like Sony was, it seemed like multiple entities were sniffing around and like it's the scuttle butt, who knows what's true and what's not, but it seems like Sony might have purchased this thing without really doing due diligence true due diligence about what they were buying and like They felt, I think, cornered into needing to make a move And I think they felt like they needed to acquire a shortcut to get to where Their single player apparatus that makes these amazing single player games got there naturally. It took a lot of time, but it happens They felt like they had no time and they had they had an engineer shortcut. But it goes to that Nintendo quote that I bring up sometimes about Aada I think, talking about how like they don't acquire teams really because like you can't just buy Nintendo. You have to be and become Nintendo and Sony. Shony short the only thing I can say now is that like I hope they learned their lesson It was a very expensive lesson Firewalk in haaven make it way worse Bungeie really is like the the lesson that I hope they're like, just don't do that again It's not to say that when murgers and acquisitions become applicable to you in some future sense that you don't want to look into it I think arrowhead actually would have been maybe a sensible team to buy. They just are probably not interested. It's like Just stay away Don't do that again And I think they rushed into this into this marriage that They gave Bunie all this leverage over them from the very beginning. I remember I was talking about it back in twenty twenty two where I was like, what is like the whole letter bungie wrote where they they're almost like it almost sound like they didn't give a fuck They're like, no, we're not, we're not changing at all Nothing we do is ever changing. But now Sony has bought us and all this kind of stuff and slowly I think I think Bungie It's hard to know what to blame bungie for And it's hard to know what to blame Sony for Because really when you buy bungie, it's like, well why didn't you buy them with the idea to green light at Destiny three or to have like a big project? It's true that I think that there were going to be these like smaller projects like Marathon and Gummy bears, but based on the team sizes, it was never going to be their big project So it's almost like these guys have just been going for years now under Sony without a new big thing It's just like where is the management? Where is the direction and the guidance and the counsel about like what we should do with this talent and this team it's just I'll reiter that it's crazy that Herman Holdst remains in his position. with this happening and It's crazy that they bungled a truly talented team that just really didn't have the guidance or cohesion necessary to do what they needed to do And when I read his letter and he says like we explored different options, one of the things that I was wondering is like And I bet you they did explore this though it makeses zero financial sense is What if they just became a support studio while we figuure this out? Like we We need help on We need They can do shit with Intergactic, they can work on all this different stuff. in the meantime. They already have Valkyrie and other internal kind of h for highire studios to kind of keep costs down. But the problem with that is you're not keeping costs down by using Bunge regard It's like the antithesis of what you do with contract work. They're like in Washington state. They're one of the most expensive teams probably in the entire industry. So you don't offload shit to them. So No real move made any sense other than Sony going. We're going to eat enormous amounts of shit for a while, and we're going to give you a half a billion dollars and you'll get What it doesn't have to be destiny, but like the next big thing. But I think they're just unwilling to do it And I think that if you're unwilling to do that, then you really have to ask yourself what the fucking purpose of this was to begin with And so of course, if you were unwilling to invest the amount of money to make a Destiny style game, which is going to be incredibly expensive. then You really have to go back to point one and be like, well, then We just absorbed this team for no reason. And the other thing, I think is that there might they might be afraid at this point Spending money and even making revenue through Bungie in the midterm will certainly in the short term will hurt their ability to take impairments because they've not written down anywhere near the full cost of this thing And that's going to help them on their taxes in the years to come. So there is some sort of balancing act to be high with that too But yeah. so I don't know, man. It's a complicated issue. We've gone over and over and over again. I don't think any of the fundamentals have changed. I just think Yeah Bune' in trouble. Like I he was asking like what is this the beginning of the end? I'm like, maybe I mean, the honest answer is maybe. Yeah Maybe it is. I think a lot of this requires like Marathon needs to hold on in a meaningful way and they got to get this next thing going. It's And we got to we're not going to know about it for years, but they have to confident behind the scenes that they're going to do something or this team will be gone I think Yeah, yeah And I don't want to be clear. like I really love Bungie's output. I think their output is fantastic. I think I don't think they've made a bad game probably my entire life is a company. You know, like if the company goes away, it is what it is. likeike that happens all the fucking time It'll be a bummer for like maybe a couple of hours. I don't know I think people are too attached to a lot of different entities in this space. I think so too. And If they if they went out tomorrow and they were like bungies bungeieies over, I' be, okay good. That is what it is. I mean, it's not good for the people involved. that sucks But uh arathon'santastic. And I'd rather, I'd rather that be the last thing that they put out in than like fucking I don't know some piece of shit Yeah, So we'll see. We'll see what happens. I don't know. all I know all I know for sure is that like u Sony went about this completely wrong. I don't know why you would. And again The fair games in the room, man I just don't is your like What is your strategy for fair games if you're continuing to do that brereak in. Like if you have this if you have this team, like a great it's an expensive team. I really think you could keep Destiny running for like a fraction of what they spent make spending on it really Because the foundation is really there. All you have to do is keep adding like This new update that came out is barely anything. It's just a bunch of like quality of life fixes And people are all over it There's like some new things, but it's not expansion to your stuff And so you look at that you have like a bunch of new people coming in, you have a bunch of returning players coming in, concurrently for weeks. which is no which is nothing. It's nothing And it's like, I don't know I just kind of don't know where where their heads are at really And that's not to say that Bungie is like blameless or whatever. Again, like their executives fleeced so many for sure. Like I think they inflated a lot of their u incubation projects. I think They were they were bought at the right time when money was cheap. So there's a lot of things that go into this But I just don't understand why you would continue to invest in fair games if Destiny doing what it's doing with no update at all Damnar isn't enough because Fair Games is not going Fair games is now not cracking a hundred k K I would my God, no way. I would be fucking flummixed If that happened. that's like And I would gladlyat my words like God bless them if they figure that out. But like I just do not see that happen at all. I just don't think there's anything they can really do to the game at this point based on like what people have been talking about Project Hearts and Project Cfe or whatever. these It's like these are just kind of small iterative versions of the same game. I think that's what The whole break in thing is they're going to try to rebrand it, but it's going to fundament it'll be like kill the Justice League's year delay. It's going to be the same thing There's nothing can do What are you going to do You have to also is Also what is it? It's breakaking. Yeah breaking with I like people writing it with like the Euro symbol Iike should like it And by the way This means nothing. I've said this a million times so people are tired of hearing it. I think fair games and break in are both dope names That's what the that's what the the shame is is like you should have just kept the game at fair games because breakaking is a dope name. You could have saved that for something else. Instead you gave this project two cool names. That's a wild way to look at it. That's funny th. Yeah, I just, I don't know what their strateg is, It just kind of seems like it's all over the place and not really thought out And that seems to be the The MO really of Sony lately Especially in this live service space where they've just completely fucked up Almost in every almost in every conceivable way. Their most successful IP is one that they just refuse to Yeah it was what was it, Hell Iivers And they have no real stake in that really. Yeah, they own the IP but not the developer and they'll have a hard time They're not those guys are not going to make another Hellivers game. I don't think. Um, mayaybe they will, but Yeah, it's something I'm very I'm fascinated by the arrowhead relationship with Sony because it doesn't I don't know very much about it, but it seems like there's a culture misalignment between these two entities. And that's shocking to me since Arowhead has been with Sony Forever I mean, the original Hell Divers is a fucking PS three game Well remind everyone, Yeah. and Vita and PS four. They might have cut the PS three version actually at some point. anyway Um yeah, we'll see what happens with Bungie. I'm u I'm I'm not I'm neither optimistic or pessimistic about Marathon. like I think Marathon' doing its thing and I think that could be a thing I think it's And don't I don't think we have any insight into the console numbers I don't know if they're good. We don't have the full picture And they And they're not going to talk shit about it. like one day we might wake up and they're going to be like marathons done. And and they're not going to like tip their hand What I don't want to see, you know what I was thinking about recently? what you don't want to see out of them is the Crystal prrotocol guys. Remember when they made they were like dying, so they like made this like this game that people liked, it was called like Redacted or something like that. It was like a Winstick shooters I worth that and like Or like what happened with law brereakers Um and right it's like you don' You got to just know when to quit. You can't put out this new thing that you're hoping will work or something like You got to have a good idea It's got to be bungy It's got to be big and connected. And you and I discuss this, what about a single player game I mean, it would be I mean, I would love that personally. It would be cheaper and not to be too too on the nose with it. Sony could help them Not that they really need it But they haven't made a single player game in many years, so maybe they would. and That could be a better marriage of great gameplay and mechanics with Sony's expertise and their ability to help the motion capture and do all those kinds of things might be a thing to invest in, but again, Bunie's expensive, dud It's just an expense studio. Didn't they also have a new building I don't know. long ago and like so that thing's probably fucking empty. Yeah, I don't know. I would love to know their burn rate it Now even it's probably extraordinary. I would imagine even with these cuts Sony is losing money on I don't think that probably. I think was probably egregious And they probably didn't want to cut everyone loose until they realized they weren't going to get anything going because then you would have to hire a bunch of new people, which might actually benefit them because they'd probably be able to get cheaper. I think it's a coin flip whether Bungie surves the next couple years I think so too. And it's we make fun of, I think Maybe Microsoft is given more grief than this this than anyone but like buying teams and then snuffing them out EA obviously is a great but You can play in this one on Sony too. although you can because they should have never been involved in this at all. And I wonder what I would happen like I wonder what would have happened a Bungie. The word at it like the word from people that worked there. was like they were in deep trouble Like even at that time, like they they they didn't, they weren't going to be able to sustain the operation the way it was in any respect. if they didn't get a buyer So I don't I don't know. I wonder too if it would have been better if If there was just a more honest evaluation of the company Like how the how would how would that have affected it? If like if they weren't b for three point six billion But if they were bought for just like a more reasonable acquisition press. Yeah. Yeah, it would be totally different whichich means, which means for this is again If that is the case, if the evaluation price is really the big thing where it's just like we just spend three point six billion dollars We got a we got a trim becausecause we're losing money then a lot of this lies at the hands of the Suite. that negotiated these deals and saying like, oh, we're actually got like we got like seven incubation projects and they're all huge You know, it's just like you lied and you fucked over the studio, you got your golden parachute I wonder for what? Yeah, I wonder like Freedmen bothers the hell. Yeah I just like it seems, I don't want you know, this is more of a hague question, but it's like it almost seems illegal if that's like really what happens. where it's like, You would thinkony if that was true, you would think Sony would make a big fucking deal. about like that we were Materially misled And I wonder if they're just trying to makeemon lemonade out of lemons where they're like we have this distressed asset Uh We gott to make the best of it. throwing them under the bus is not going to make us look good for other people that we do M andA with. But at that point, it's like, well, but you just like that's a lot of money for Sony point six million billion three point six billion dollars for Microsoft is like in a complete irrelevance Not true for somebody at all It's as we've argued it, I think you can make the argument that that was more than every studio acquisition combined To that point is And again, one hundred, what was it? two hundred fifteen million or something for insomniac? It's like, Jesus, God And we were saying like a more reasonable price based on what Bungie really became and like was under its shell You're talking about, in my opinion in the hundreds of millions of dollars Like maybe ten percent or fifteen percent of what Sony paid You know, think so deeply distressed. It's like cool you get the IP and the team, but like you're in a lot of trou. It's not like you're getting this vibrant thing that's going to Catapul you Yeah, I think literally around the around the price. Maybe a little more maybe slightly more given live service and the potential for profitability over long periods of time over recycled content Um probably around the same priceices insomniac or maybe a little bit more, but like certainly not like, I don't know, man. I've said this before, but like even even bungie at like Peak Halo three when everything was Really insane I still don't think that's like a billion dollars You know what I mean? Like I just don't maybe I mean, what the fuck do I know, I guess. But like It doesn't st It doesn't strike me in layman's U The vibes are off with that. say it, u By the way, the u the Footnote timing is so fucked up already that I might as well have not even been keeping track of them. Like it's worse for what I'm doing than like you just listening and figuring it out yourself Well Before the layoff news broke this morning U I did have another bungee story on here that I just thought I'd put in. that was a little more feel good. I guess it doesn't really make much sense now, but This comes from Games industry.iz I thought it was interesting. They They wrote Bungie Devs reportedly pitched Destiny dating games The project was ever only a prototype, but management didn't want romance or silliness. So They write briefly, quote, Staff at Bungie apparently pitched the idea of making a dating game based on its smash hit sci fi shooter destiny That's according to former community manager Leanna Rupert who responded to a post on Twitter from a fan asking for a dating sim She said that some developers actually made one, but management was against the idea of saying nobody wanted romance or silliness She says, quote, it was very dream daddy inspired. It was fun getting to be a small part of it, quote former sior narrative designer, Rober Brooks provided some extra color, saying that this was made during the carnival event a Bungeie where developers had a week to make fun protypes He explain quote It was never a full fledged project. That said, we did pitch this as a full fledged project every year. Myself and two other narrative team members who both came from Romance game desesign had an entire pitch deck for a one complete with costs and real hard metrics on returns neverever got anywhere, and quote, Bungy recently announced that work on Destiny two would come to end shortly with Boomberg saying that a significant number of staff could be made reundant. We we already know what happens What do you think of that? I mean, it's obviously it's like they were talking about this carnival thing that's obviously a game jam or a dev jam of some sort where you're seeing is there any special sauce that you can get going in some sort of weird way. That's kind of a cool idea. I wonder if that would have been the salvation for Destiny was not the stating same itself, but just expanding out what destiny was And I know they tried to do that with the phone game and you know It's kind of what Riot is trying to do or has tried to do with League of Leges. It's kind of almost necessary Would you have played a dating simim No, I'm not a dating sim person, really. Like I don't even really care for like romance in games that a lot of people care about romance in. L like RP like I don't, if I'm playing an RPG, I'm not thinking like, oh, what are my romance options You know, every time I play, I was because Derek's a big massiveic fan And we were talking, I can' remember on some episodes of Nay we were talking about like which which partner we chose or whatever And I remember being like I had a job to do I had to save the galaxy. Right, right, right I don't got time to I don't got time to be trifl I mean, like, it is a weirdly like big thing for a lot of people, especially in RPGs. It is something that is kind of undercertain and I know Warframe has like you can get married and shit andarfame. I know, yeah, that's a big one. Well like There is something to be said about that. That is a thing that fans do like and are interested in. I don't know if it would have moved the needle or anything. It wouldn't have made Destiny less appealing to me If u M more styles of play or like more aspects of RPG game design were a part of it. but Wouldn't have spoke to me really D Ss are weird, likeike they're biger than They're bigger than make sense to me that they are. likeike I don't really understand it personally But they're like there's so many of them that like there has to be something. that people latch on to about these things. And there's C certainly characters in Destiny where I'm like people people would I could see, I could see this being a thing. What about the we brought up Dust five hundred four recently. What about the reverse Dust five hundred four Destiny making an eve online Right likeike that like a notot something that deep and complicated, but something that's about the interplanetary Comerce, travel, space like ship to ship battles That kind of thing. point to the surface like they didn't justify before Maybe that would have been a cool way to Buff it out a little bit I've long thought that like there should have been like contractors making like destiny tactics and shit Yeah, that would have been super cool And it's such an relative to how big the IP is, it's real it's like so astonishingly unmined in a way that kind of baffles me They kind of understood it with Halo a little bit. They had Halo Wars and these other things. It was like they were smart in some ways, but I' just like, I don't know This wouldn't have appeed to me though Interesting little story. I follow Leanna Rupert on Twitter she's very open about her time there. It would be fun to talk to her about it. I don't know how she's so open actually about it I don't know. I don't know all the det reach out. I should yeah, I should. I think I might have DemMed it for once, but I don't I' know I'll go All right, we have some God of War la fe, right? That's how we decided it was said. I think it's Lf Lfe This is a whole new yote thing. It's going to take me at least two months Yoi because I call it Yo Tai for like Brever Yeah and then it's just standing, then you just get it. Like that. Yeah, EI is A AI is I. Right, greatreat. As far as I understand I only know that because of Dragon Ball. That's wonderful Isuse there' so many Buddais and like Kai and all that stuff 's wonderful That's wonderful. Jason Shreer, a journalist fromloomberg has been releasing these videos has been doing very well on YouTube. And you see the numbers and you're like, whyy I've been doing this forever You know, like this is a great way to this is a great Jim Ryan e virtuous cycle between your Bloomberg work and your stuff like People like me get to make money off of your reporting, you should just make money off of your report. Right. Yeah. So we put up a video and he said something in there that got picked up by the gaming leaks and rumors Reddit It says, quote, he says at some point, quote, I wouldn't be surprised if Goda War Lao F Lao Fei gets announced for February or March, twenty twenty seven. pretty soon So it seems like he understands that from his understanding, the game is going to come out Q one I love that if true and I believe them because they're really keeping it close to their vest and not really showing very much of it until recently, which is cool. So less than a year I would have even liked more time, likeike get through Wolverine and then announce that thing's coming out in March. That would be kind of cool And that comes on the back of an interview that Backlop magazine cGmagnline. com wrote with or did with Deborah Anne Wall who plays the protagonist in Lau Fay Lao Fe And she talks about a bunch of things. I was reading a bit about her I don't know much about her. She's a pretty big actress. likeike she was one of the main actresses in True Blood, which I didn't realize. and yeah, she's in daredvil. And Daredevil, yeah for all these years, which is cool. That's what I know her from. I never watched any True Bood, but Yeah she's huge So she talks about all that stuff, but deep in here, there is a conversation about U God of war And Deborah An Wall,ce she's ask about it says, I'm so freaking and excited I wonder if you read this the same way. Do you feel like this is planned? R She says Let me let I'll describe what she said because I was like this is interesting. likeike I don't know why like it's cool. It could be off the cuff But it feels like you were told to say this She said, Oh my Godd, I can't tell you, I still pinch myself. You know, again, I've known about this for nearly ten years and I haven't been able to talk about it. And then so she opens with that And then she says nearly the guy says ten years and she says nearly He pitched it to me in twenty eighteen and they had and he's about C. she's talking about Cory And they had known about it before then. it's wild. Like when Corey brought me in to talk about doing Ragnarok and show me the twenty eighteen game, You already had a poster for the Lao Fe game with me in a cube. A Cubbea it's been since the beginning.'s deeply part of the war Like to me, I'm like that's so on the nose, like like media shin on the nose Yeah I don't want to She's an actress. And that's what I love about these interviews is like You're not talking to a normal person You're talking to a person that can play a bunch of different roles and does it very convincingly And I'm not saying she's even saying anything wrong or bad. I'm just saying it's so on the notes because the whole argument about it is like, what is this game? Why are you doing this game? What's with the fucking cube? And their answer has been like A they answ are going in this like it's been like it was pitched to me before Ragnarok was even in development and the cube was in the art in the beginning, you know, like, I don't know. Maybe I might be being totally unfair to this. It is it is kind of crazy I do believe it though Like I do like becausecause there's u There's an interview I don't remember where it might have been IGN U Barlog was on panel with a bunch of. I think Alana was on it too I think I think she brings up like Sheould make Fe a playable protagonist And I think he he he looks as if he's like heives a look where I'm like, oh they were definitely. talking about this or like they they definitely had planned. The cube thing is funny because like I totally believe that that's something like I totally believe that that is something Corey Barlog would be weirdly obsessive about. Like that seems like it's got to happen you Yeah, like there's something about like that because it's weird You know what it is? It's the same reason why I think God of War twenty eighteen works at all because it's like It's a weird idea that shouldn't work what I mean? it's like,'sros's going raise kid and's gonna be he's going to be introspective, and it's going to don't you want that out of go of war Everybody's like, No. And then it comes out and people are like, ush, it's pretty good. I could see Cory Barley being like, you know what? we're gonna to have a fucking cbe And that's like got its roots in D andD and stuff. Like, I don't know what real mythology it's pulled, but it is definitely a D thing And they're DD nerds over there. And I could see it's like, let's put a fucking cube in this game. And the people are like, that's dumb, Corey. it's like I know. You know what I mean? Like it just it strikes me as I could see that being true. I like like personally. I The cube bothers me But I also don't Um kind of I'm fully expecting U by the time I'm done with the game to be to to come around on the cube. Like it stries me as one of those things where it's just like, all right, I'm sure I'll be sad when it gets hurt or something towards the end or something But because it's Jack Wuade and he's just kind of endearing. I love how upset people are that they motion captured him Like it's like something that is like deeply annoying to people. Like it's funny as fuck And if you If you don't know how modern performance capture works, I also like when you look at that, you think, Y first my the first thing you think of is like how hard could it be Do you really need this? They're on stage. they're, they're spacial's spacial and like his his voice is being speak up stuff. So it's like yeah there's to it than that. but I think it' I think it's hsterical how mad people like people are so mad about it Be because on the face of it it does look ridiculous. Like what do you mean? you can't just like Why is he wearing that ridiculous like wirefame cube costume Dumbest thing I've ever seen It makes sense. I understand why they do it, but it looks so dumb. I love the idea of Corey being so obsessed with the cube like as as a conception that like, you know, he Herman and Scott Rodey know those guys go and And he's like, all right, we got three pitch. And like each pitch ultimately includes like a cube And they're like, Corory, what is with the fucking cube? Like after like the like d'uring the third one, they're like so he's like going in and're like, all right, and then the cube cat and're like all right, Cory, wait,'s the fucking cu? Yeah know. And so like no matter what they chose They were going to get the cbe character in there. And you're right. I said I said when I first saw it, it's deeply D and D and I love that about it. but it must be connected to some sort of shit I don't understand. I don't know. The more I've thought about the game, the more I'm like, I think they just didn't. I think they did it a little dirty with the way they showed it. I don't think I don't I think we all understand it's re probablyably going to be pretty excellent I just think Yeah, it's not a good way to it's not a good first impression of a video game not I think, especially especially when you lead it with twenty minutes gameplay. I understand that that's literally true But it's not like spiritually true ike when you say like twenty minutes of gameplay people are expecting like the real meat and potatoes of what the game is, the not like the actual twenty minutes of unbroken play which we all understand in video games has lulls and you know, things that aren't inherently interesting that What they showed forgot of Oar Laufe should have been the second time we saw it. Yeah, I agree. Yeah.'s a that's like a state of play style Deep dive with commentary. Um I'm not crazy about It's I don't know that really matters. It seems like people are really excited about it. I think it's going to do very well. And I think if they just keep the momentum going, Tokon Wolverine And then yeah, write it, you know, GTA obviously and then write into that And then you're off to the races for like hopefully a strong potentially final year of PS five As we know, I mean, it's not going be PSwise funnally Yeah, notot even close. I mean Dude, if it really does come out, Q one, twenty twenty seven and we first saw it Um In summer of this year, that's good That's what I want, That' perfect.' perfect Like I don't, I don't want enough of this Four years of waiting after a teaser trailer, like I'm over it I get that those things are done typically to attract talent for new IP. I get it Avoid it if you can. forom myake Do it for me Do it for do it specifically for Chris. We need you to do more's' that Simons. Is that Simons thing or it's it's all the uh that Maggie was it do it for her or whatever? Yeah Good for me All right, J just a few more things U, I saw this pop up and was pleased about it. JProote in and said, Hey Gam. Afel Games a Brazilian shhovelware studio. goodood for what'd you say I like that. That word there's something about that word that it feels weird to hear. It's the Jewish or it's the Hebrew word for like non Jewish people, right ough Yeah, but it's like, why is why is there a word for it? Like it feels weird that there's a word for that Yeah after calling me swwarthy or something G I mean L Huber and youish shly. In modern usage it is a standard Jewish term for a non Jewish person. equivalent to the Englishd Gentile Cast I don't know. He says a Brazilian shovelware studio A Aful games, AFIL confirmed that all of its gam are being removed from the PlayStation store. The studio has released over one hundred and forty games on PS four and PS five. Do you think PlayStation will slowly continue to remove entire libraries from shhovelware developers? When do you think they'll tackle the never ending coming soon section that'silled with AI garbage that never will never release Thanks for all you do. I'll go to Antichrist Enjoyeret Peter Thial's Sere Cference and listen I just himo that he's got like there was like some weird people on the list too, where I'm like, what Oh, are you talking about like that weird list of that secret Yeah, it's like a secret email list or something with about the end of the world or something? Yeah, it and it's real. Yeah, it's real It's so crazy. There's like a twenty four T invitation to Jeffrey I'veen never one went out, Dude, it's insane But the only thing I know about Peter Till really is is that Oh my Godd, what's his name? Tim Dyl Oh had like a bit He had like a bit on Rogan we was talking about like, This guy's like he has two special interests. Its it's Building autonomous roads and the anigis Oh man Crazy But u so This story is true AL games or AL AFIL games, a Brazilian studio releasing shovelware on PlayStation network Dlisted games. com which we site when these things happen has them as at eighty seven games They're across PS four and PS five though, so I assume the one hundred and forty or whatever games that some people are citing are just the stacks of games across platforms So eighty seven is nowhere near as egregious as some of the others that they've taken down, but this is, I think the sixth or seventh shovelware developer that has reported that Sony's basically like you're done U And I tweeted this out because I was like we we give as we already have on the show Giv Sony so much grief and we gave Sony a lot of grief about this Over the years But they are finally doing something like they really are doing something about it. and you got to give them credit for it. Like I'm pretty sure thousands of games have been removed from the PSN because of this over time. They're getting to the smaller guys now The AI stuff is different and that needs to be taken care of too But I don't even want to get lost in the mix of like sometimes there are just shitty looking games or whatever That's not even one I'm worried about. I'm worried about these like these slot farms. That's different it's different. It's like, have your shitty game every once in a while. It's fine this egregious shit that they were doing and with the trophy system is is fucked up and there's something else I want to say to Chris, which is 'relcome Beause who is bitching more about us For years, years And by the way, it's true. someone reached someone tweeted about me because they know how bitter I am about. likeike I had a Adam Boyys, who was at playlsttation at the time was on kind of funny and he came and we had a debate about this. This was like early in the PS four is era, like third year fourth year PS four And I was making the argument then, I'm like, dude, the store is overrun with garbage and you guys need to do something about it. And and someone's like, so I guess you won the debate. withith Adam boys and I'm like, Yeah I guess that was just way too early. That was so quaint. If we can go back to that PlayStation network In terms of the storefront, man, I would do it in the heartbeat. So Goodbye RIP Bozos And you could still get their games apparently on Xbox one, Xbox sereries Steam and Switch, according to them because those platforms don't care, I guess but hopefully Those platforms will come to care too There's like almost Euphoria in the PlayStation trophy ecosystem over the shit And what we're waiting for now is for PSN profiles to readjust the leaderboards, which is going fucking it's going to be like the most chaotic and like It's going to be a day of great upheaval. PSN profiles because I think they're talking about doing that and people are going to get so pissed because dude, there are dudes with like ten thousand platform trophies And it's like that, you have to you have to listen, I'm a trophy guy I love trophies. Everyone knows that I make no hidden secret of it But I like earning them It's not about the cumulative number It's about collecting the things that you've done And so I have two hundred and twelve platin tropies, I think And that's a lot That's like point one percent or something of people on PSN have ten thousand platinum trophies, have you have to play multiple games a day and get the platinums in them The corniest, stupidest shit the leaderboard adjustments that willll happen on PSM profes going to be los Oh my guys it gol And shout out to PSN profiles by the way because they, I don't know if you remember. I used to bitch about it too, and then they took my advice and I think it was me directly that they were inspired by, although I could be wrong where I was like, you guys should start hiding these games on your backke endnd, like you're scraping The PSN, you're getting all this information and then just marked them a shovelware. And they did And I think that was kind of the beginning of the end. for this stuff on PSN, which is good So We fought back and we won All right, final two pieces of news here, Chris, we're both. related to business. and I just wanted to We do a little business and we're businessmen doing business. And I wanted to talk a little bit about What's going on here with this? So Reuters The newswire reports the following, they say Katakkwa, Japan's Elden Ring powerhouse, faces battle over CEO at shareholder meeting They write Katakkwa, the Japanese firm behind the dark epic Elden Ring video game franchise is now facing a nightmare of its own An activist shareholder who wants its CEO gone wielding a big stake in proxy advisor support The showdown will take place at Wednesday's annual general meeting. So this was yesterday from one we're recording and I've not seen any reporting on it since and is being closely watched by investors in Japan. Where activist shareholders have scored some significant wins as authorities pile pressure on companies to improve returns and corporate governance In one camp, there is Takeshi Natsuno, sixty one and CEO since twenty twenty one, but under attack for declining profitability. He may have history on his side after garnering ninety percent of shareholder support at last year's AGM That Suno has also been backed by the company's board which says removing him would create uncertainty while the company is trying to carry out reforms Natsuno is facing off against Hong Kong based Oasis management One of the most active activist investors in Japan OasIis, which says that it has been engaging with Katakkawa since twenty, is now the firm's largest shareholder with a thirteen point seven six percent stake while Elden Ring, a collaboration between veteran game director H Hi Hi Taka Hitaka Miyazaki and Game of Thrones author George R. Martin has been a massive success. Nsudono has been criticized for failing to capitalize on The twenty twenty two action role playaying game is published by Katakawa Unif from software in Japan, but by BandiamMo overseas That arrangement has led to material profit leakage, says Oasis Oasis is not alone in thinking it's time for a new person at the helm Well it may seem he the proxy report says, quote Well it may take time to find a replacement for a assudo, this is a challenge worth accepting ough and then they write, though a drop in shareholder support from ninety percent to below fifty percent would be extraordinary some market participants say could happen given the firm's poor performance So The basic argument here, as they note is that Katakawa loggged an equity of just zero five percent last year compared to nine point five percent the year ending march twenty twenty two. So What they're arguing is like they're in a. they just had their best selling game by far by a mile. and they're actually not really doing that great as a result because they haven't capitalized on it. That's where I think night rain comes from And why they might be a little cage and seem honestly a little cagey about dustbloods To me, I think that that's kind of getting to the point of being a little weird Yeah. so There's not too much more to say about this. You can say anything you want about it, of course, but This is interesting because If you read about if you read what they're basically saying is that they probably should be self publishing. And I think that that's probably true They seem very comfortable with Band Dynamco, but you kind of wonder why And u yeah We'll see what happens in the future with them, but it is a good point. They Elden Ring was a real high point in Elden Ring too whenever that comes out is going to be a huge game. but Could they have done more? I guess so 's they're saying Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I think, um If you have a success like that, you're always going to be You're always saying guys like, damn, we really could have We could have reached a lot more of this So It's easy to say that, but then you put something else out and it's not like Elden Ring is so is unique even among Souls games. as as far as it's like wide appeal and its massive success. It's definitely spread to other Souls games in the wake of Oh Elden Ringss success. I think other games like people have delved back into the catalog a little bit more, but We all figured Elden Ring would be successful. I don't think any of us anticipated the degree. Oh, no way. Maybe Dustin. Maybe Dustin maybe' a little bit maybe a little bit more clued in, but I certainly wasn't expecting that degree of suuccess. I was expecting that degree of What do you call it when somethingone just like something escapes the ca Yeah, like Yeah, I know exact what mean Penetration, I guess. Uh, I wasn't expected like I didn't expect to hear like Uncles and aunts ask me what Eldering was You know, like that was not something that I would have anticipated Um So or even just like the platinum rate you know, for Elden Ringsings insane. So like All of that is insane. It's also It also was not guaranteed before that So I mean, I don't know if you could really like made you made a good call, I think, generally U Ban and AMCos it seems to be a good partner, but Now that you now that you have this thing, now that you've exploded Yeah Maybe you don't need them Yeah, it's like I'm trying to see here The Dustbloods thing is weird also. Yeah, Dustbloods is there for so I it's Dustblood is their first self published game So that's Interesting. So they are starting to, I think, embrace that You do have to ask yourself, they seem risk averse. A lot of Japanese publish or developers seem like they Platinum' is another example of Patum iss nowhere near from pedigree at this point, but Like they seem to be happy to be like to kind of defray costs And instead, it's really like you should probably just publish Elden Ring two yourself Why are you Pight AMcoo is like extremely lucky that grovel for all your games do they own the IP? Yeah, from owns Kataawo, I believe, owns yeah, the IP. I think Ban Iers works with them on it because And their relationship obviously goes back to Dark Souls. And I think there's probably a level of loyalty there because They kind of came in when Sony bailed on them And They've been with him really ever since. I think Obviously they did bloodborne together and all that. And then of course Secro was with actctivision, but basically everything else was with Bandai. So they should they should consider I'm sure there are other issues too. I was doing a little bit of research. It's interesting because if you read a little bit later in the Reuters article, they remind us that and I forgot about this that There was a time in twenty twenty four and we reported on it on the show at the time that Sony was in talks to buy Cateac. Do remember that And then and then it didn't it just didn't go through, but Sony ended up getting ten percent of Kateacawa. So. There's like some weird shit going onw And this is where I think the Reuters's article gets a little disingenuous, actually is Cataca is this publicly traded corporation. They have like five thousand employees and then they have a bunch of verticals And their big vertical I think is actually Katakawa future publishing. That's like all the manga and tabletop games and all the shit and all that rest of the thing they have a bunch of film and TV and anime stuff like And that's where it' like Nico Nicko and that they even have a tourism thing. It's dude, I think I wrote in my nose I didn't write the full name. They have like an anime tourism bureau, basically. like where people go to Japan to like tour important places in the anime industry and like notot only where they're made, but also like locations where these things are take place or whatever So I thought that was interesting, but in games They have a whole game vertical and They own a choir, which you and I love. they made pent you back in the day and They make way of the Samura and Shinobido, and they're like aquare neX kind of c developer now they work on all the octopath games And then they own Sike Chun soft. because that's like Dang and Rapa and a bunch of anime stuff Seinessgate and Shyron and all the rest And then they own seventy percent of from. So they're the majority holder of Frum, but they don't own all of it And this is where it gets interesting. So Oasis fourteen percent of Katakkawa, but none of from software Sony has ten percent of Katateakkawa and fourteen percent of fromrom software So a cumulative twenty four percent of the company, I guess, almost a quarter of voting shares And then ten ccent owns seven percent which we're going to talk about a minute So It's a little messy. I think ye, if anything, PlayStation should and I'm not saying as exclusives, I'm just saying PlayStation should be publishing the games if anything for them. att least like remove one barrier and get a little closer to the home company They have they have things to think about. and I was also reading about Oasis management They're kind of a small hedge fund They only have fourteen billion dollars in assets. I mean, that's a lot of money but it's not a huge f And they only have fifty employees. and I was looking at the other things they invested in and this is really the only thing that we would even know. So or care about. R So nothing really to say about them from that perspective So there's that. And then I thought the final interesting exercise. and by the way, this I'm not even timestamping things anymore, just stop This comes from Bloomberg, although I found it for free on a website called the star. com It says ten ccent is said to mull exits from game studios like Marvelous. So I thought we would have an interesting Um exercise here, Let me see if I can find this Yeah, here it is, okay So they write here And this comes from Blomberg,ote, Ten Ccent Holdings Limited is negotiating exits from several game studio investments in Japan. including Tokyo Taded Marvelous Inc as part of a reassessment of the company's global portfolio, peopleople with knowledge of the matter said The Chinese game publishing giant is evaluating its minority holdings in many studios and in some cases, is preparing to sell stakes back to the original management team, even if it means incurring a los, some of the people said Penset is navigating a prolonged slump in the games industry at the same time as it's playing catch upp to the capital intensive artificial intelligence race against peers Alibaba Group holding limited and fight Dance Limited The company is casting a critical eye over its investments and assessing which still hold promise to be high performers while also making new bets where it sees potential for growth. Among the criteria for Tenscent to exit an investment, the company considers whether it its envisioned synergies with the portfolio of company may have led according to one of the people who have asked to be named discussing private deliberations. So Um I have a list here of the things that they own and I was I was wondering, we should just go through them and see like what things would be would make sense for them to get rid of So they're saying only minority shares So it's worth noting that they own all of the following teams and it seems like they're not interested in getting rid of these. So they own all of funcom. Those are the guys they'reting out their MMO studio, but they're putting out the Dune game. that's coming up soon Lo, which is the Hong Kong, like the Chinese team that they own digalip digital extremes, which we were talking aboutlier that's wararframe They own riiot. We talked about them earlier in Legobal Legs They own sumo group which works with Sony actually with Little Plan I three and some other things, and that's a whole series of developers They own clay, which are the guys that did like don't starve. and just like that They own Turtle Rock U, so the u the B back for bllood teeam and whatever the fuck they've done since And then they own and they own Yager, which is the studio that made Dead Island too And then they own majority stakes and a few others, including Supercell and Tech Land, which I would imagine they would not want to get rid but the minority shares All right, so they're talking about Japanese minority shares here, but they said it's part of their global portfolio. So let's assume that everything's the table D't nod. They w forty two percent of that That's D't I think don't not, didn't we talk about on the show a week or ago that don't not release statementing that they're gonna run out of money in Noveber. So they're a lot, they're in a lot of trouble Yeah They own thirty five percent of shift up. I doubt they would want to get rid of that. And in fact, I would assume they would want to increase their They own thirty five percent of Epic. I often forget about this. They're not going get rid of that No. They own thirty five percent of Ubisoft They're not going to rid of that let's see They own twenty six percent of vvantage whichich is so what isage Vvantage is the Ubisoft sub meember memember they invested in. Oh right like all the Ubisoft basically spun out all their valuable shit into a new eding called addvantage Right So they own they own twenty two percent of bluber. I wouldn't want to get rid of that Then you start getting into like, so they say twenty percent for Marvelous. This is probably a good place to be. I don't know why Marvelous is obviously a really big Yeah, they they have probably five hundred employees or something like that. It's a lot of Um anime stuff and like story of seasons and licensing stuff. I don't know why you'd want any part of that. They also did the Mster Hunter stories games I want to say. So those are kind of U Fromsoft at sixteen point two percent rememedy, fourteen percent Crafton Fteen percent. This is tough, dude. Like I don't know, Paradox, ten percent, maybe You get rid of your shares of paradox. That's obviously like grand strategy stuff and maybe not as valuable So I don't know, man. There's not a lot of Not lot of wiggle. Yeah. they they own small pieces of Discord, Roblox, platinum I don't, I don't know what they're going to But they they obviously way are way oveextended. There's no doubt about that for sure And that's all we have for the news All right, Christopher We're back and we're here to talk about what we're playing It this here, you're playing GTA San Andre, It's very exciting Where are you playing So I'm playing on I'm playing on PS five Uh I was I wanted to play it On PS two I have a copy of the PSU, but like the disk is just So like I must have scratched this thing up like crazy I figured I have the I have the original by the way. I don't. So I'm playing the original Skew, I guess on PS five. So not the Definitive remastered edition or whatever What is it called even Yeah, let me look. The GTA trilogy versionight, rightight, right. I'm playing the original or whatever the the, you know, the like the ones you can't buy anymore Yes, but that are still yeah, I know exactly. Yeah. So I'm playing that you listed to those, I think. Yeah So I'm playing that Uh Still still relatively early on. I just kind of like I think the GTA news kind of got to me and I was like, there's st that I'm looking forward to playing but none of it's None of it's out yet, and it's kind of hard for me. I have a backlog of like really intensive stuff that I want to get to, but like It' hard to get into the headsace. I'm just looking forward all stuff that feel like all this things feels like it's the imediate fut So like I was looking into my backlog from even further back and I was like, you know what I'm in a GTA mood kind of. I still really haven't fininished most. Grand of Autos, I finished GTA four. I think a long time, long, long time ago, I think I finished GTA Three think like a long, long after Yeah three' fairly manageable. They get pretty long after I might as well not have played it though because I barely remember that and I was like are it feels like I was barely sent when I played that. So like there's still Vice City for me, San Andreas for me and five. I got pretty deep into five, but I never finished it I was like, yeah, you know what? let me jump into Um Let jp to San Andreas. This is a game that I played a lot at like my cousin Justin's house. u in the Bronx And I never owned it really Um until I was it like an adult And by the time I was an adult, I didn't really play it because it was more of a collector thing And So I'd only caught I' ever only caught glimpses of it and I would fuck around with it. I would do cheat codes or whatever but I never actually played through. Mos of San Andreas. I know a lot about it through cultural osmosis. but You know, I get to get catch the damn train, CJ, you know, like I know these things. played it. so I'm playing it now It is it's definitely old, man It's so funny because like These games were so groundbreaking in a lot of ways. likeike they're so like because it's an open world like seamless open world game on PS two The narrative and fidelity is like the presentation of it is actually more PS one like And like it feels a little bit like early resident and evil on PS one. likeike the way that cutscenes are framed and the way that everything happens, it's like It happens in these like in these set pieces, but these set pieces are part of like a way, way bigger game. So like they're less detailed and feel it's there's something really like, u Liminal these older Grantth of Photoogames are kind of interesting, Well said I'm still kind of wrestling with the controls, I gota be honest It's they definitely I'm spoiled by modern controls You know, there's a lot of weird things about it. There's a lot of stuff that I love about GTA that isn't in this. like the physics aren't too crazy Although that was only arguably only with four where the physics were really like a mainstar of the show I can't hold it against it too bad. Yeah But it's fun. I'm still in the early game, just kind of getting acquainted with a lot of the characters I love that it's a game that you can make yourself fat in Yes, it's fraqual. Yeah. It's a little much with the exercising and all the. Yeah, the li simim stuff is kind of interesting. likeike they they never really did that again And probably for It's probably better off that they abandon that kind of thing But it is fun to mess around with in this like kind of like this proto u modern GTA where like, oh yeah, your cycling skill is going up. and it's a little bit of Red D two actually, because Red D two kind of has that going on where like your skills increase as you as you I remember that with like your bonding with the horse improves over time and things like that So like there's elements read there two in this that I didn't expect to see, like that kind of life sim stuff that's kind of absent from four and u I believe are absent from fiveive as well, you can make any of them morbidly op pece As far as I' am aware Yeah, I'm enjoying it. I like the setting. I like the the character so far. I think the voice acting is really fun. It's just so funny just to see like all this like, this narrative heft being given to these character models that look so terrible in these spaces that look so undefined. It's like It's very charming in a lot of ways, but I'm still kind of wrestling with the controls, but I'm enjoying it. It's I'm treating it more like like I'm going to a museum and kind of trying to take in this thing that I only have tangential memories of. and really getting acquainted with how it plays and what the mission structure is like and What the city of San Andreas really is without giving yourself a jet pack and flying around for five minutes and then turning the game off like I used to do or at least I think it was a jetpack. I think there's like all sorts of weird sheets that you could do in that game Still early I do kind of want to get through it. I want my mission to be kind of before GTA six comes out. I want to get through all the GTAs or at least all the GTA's that I care to get through. I think I might U three because I did it already But definitely San Andreas in five I want to get through before six comes out. And I think that's definitely manageable by November. Oh, yeah, I would say so. But uh Yeah, I like San Andreas so far. It's u that that opening man is great the theme music and What is it? Sam Sam Jackson. being there kind of immediately is awesome. It's like what is what a cast for a game. Yeah, it's it's cool likeike I always think back. three came out You know, fall two thousand one and then and then Vice City came out really quickly. It was like a year But then they took a little bit of time with four two years, right? Yeah. and They And you could see that they were at least trying to do something like some different things and the world was much bigger. Like I love ICity just because I love the eighties and I love the soundtrack, whatever But San Andreas was certainly the most differentiated of those games. it's good that you're not to play three again because it's hard to go back to three if you if you even go to those games because they start really cleaning shit up Um Although these new versions of the games are a lot better. although you're actually not playing Yeah, I'm not I'm not playing those versions. because I play a GTA three version of that. I don't know if you remember this L like, I had a really there's a there's a mission in GTA three where you have to use a sniper rifle on a ship And like ye I just couldn't do it on like the old control.ike I don't know how I did this when I was a kid, but I can't play. and they fix the controls on the new one. so it's a better Yeah, I just remember when those games came out, they were completely messed up And I think they fixed them to some degree. I don't know, I don't know the degree to which they fix them though. Like I haven' kept up Maybe they're phenomenally better, but I think I tried to play GC three like earlier this year and I remember trying and I was like, hmm, I don't know about this man. I don't know I actually don't know if I can do this U But San Andreas is kind of in that weird middle part where it's just like this is this is kind of difficult to do actually. It is really cumbersome and weird and it does feel kind of bad. But it's also like There's other things about it that are intriguing to me that are kind of pulling me forward. Like there is like a hint of that physics there Like if you do three, like there's like you hit somebody and then they just kind of fall over Like if you hit somebody with a car, they fall over it they you know, there's no physics at all And GTS Andreas, there's a little bit of it. It doesn't explode until four, obviously. They actually tampered it down a little bit from that Euphoria engine, which I I lament so much I love that engine Yeah I' enjoying it so far I think we gonna stick with it. I dig the vibe it, especially, I love the u I love that there's like a narr narration kind of presentation to it. Yeah I don't know because I don't think that's not really true of u five or four Um Aually it's in Red Dead a little bit like the chapter titles or like Arth Morgan's narr, There's like a weird amount of Red dead like really small hints of redad in Sanreas that kind of interesting That's really all I'm playing. I'm playing other things to sort of. I mean, I'm playing Marathon still. It's that's still fun although I put less time into it lately. There's not a lot of time And I was jumping into Marvercaap come to. over at friendriend's Houseesool, things like that. But there's not really much to ham at those gases Dude, absolutely amazing. God, If there is like a haall of fame. like Mount Rushmore of like video game soundtracks, like me personally, like Marios Capcom two is up there for me I just love how that song loops in like eight seconds Like it's so fucked know We' going to take you over P in in,in it Yes, o But all the jazzy, the Jazzy, like it's so good dude CapCom was Like the the beauty of the visual beauty of that game is a sight to behold, man And like the way Deaggan always always talks about this, my brother for people that don't know, always talks about this about like how it's a masterpiece of taking things that do not belong together and making it all fit together Like it's it's almost like the quintessential example of it. And it works. It's just it's awesome Yeah, that' that pixel ar combined with that soundscape is like a really great match made and like it's just like there's a there's a feeling you get when when those things are combined and you're expericing them's kind of unlike anything Any else it's really fantastic. And when I met people in like again, I we always talk about how I thought I was good at fighting games until I entered the industry and when I met people that were good at that game and they were good Oh and Like to the I was to think I was good. I used to think I was good at that game in those where I had no chance And I told you like the they used like, I used to be able to pick their parties like a couple of the guys like like who you likeike play as like roll servebot and like like whatever bullshit, you know, and they would just beat the fuck at you I don't know man. I don't the mind for this. For me, platum with Pragmata, that's platinum number one hundred twelve talked extensively about it. There's a review discussion splcast onatreon right now for you to listen to and enjoy, I will reiterate, I think that game's extraordinary. I think it's the game of the year at least for me and I highly recommend. I think it's so so fucking good And then I was kind, all right, I'm like, what's next? Do I go back to Mina? Not yet Looking at some other things, I'm like, I abandoned Turk too a while ago. I'm like, that's a bad use of time. So I I bought Lego Batman, Legacy of the Dark Kight And I've played it for maybe ten hours so far And I gott to say it's fucking great The people that are saying it's like an arkan game, they're right It is Arkham it is Arkham Kight. specifically and it is a cartoonish Ridiculous version ofarkkam Kight But it's the same idea, like the You're literally like in the in a bank like on the little gargoyles, like going like swinging around and like swinging down and killing dudes and driving the batmobile to like get to fight criminals and get to your missions and all the rest different things. that's It's really I would assume what had to happened with Travelers's Tales was like Star Wars was a big seller and did well, but it wasn't people didn't love it, I don't think. I'm sure there were people that did, but like it wasn't critical darling by initial of the imagination. And I think what they realized was There's a real bloat in our games Games don't have to be like this we can actually keep the essence of and I know Lego games fairly well. I played them early and then I kind of left them for a while and now I'm back to them in a way M Star Wars Lego Star Wars games so like The W compleomte edition was a really great game for it Um So I have some familiarity with them, like where I think I can speak about them without being out of school And I feel like what they did here is they're like, we're going to streamline this thing and make it into a more cohesive and cogent open world as opposed to now it's still fragmented Not unlike Star Wars was fragmented between the games or the movies and then like the different areas, It just feels like like an adult's Lego game Even though it is not an adult cycle game and it's a child's game Mike was pointing it out and I think so too, there are like a lot of references that are not appropriate Oh yeah, There's an Ameran psycho reference. She noticed the same exact thing about like the business card or I saw this Twitter and I'm kind of because I have, u Did I buy rego? I think I't think I bought it I think I meant to buy That's one that I want to get to But like I remember like I saw it on Twitter and I was like, o, it would have been cool to just see that in game. but It was hysterical. likeike the business card thing. I was, I can't believe Gavely they're doing this. There's like a lot of that kind of stuff, which is cool. And I don't think it comes off as too much. I think the I think it's about what you're into, like I like Batman a lot. I would say that I actually like love Batman And I don't feel that way like I like the X Men. I like Spideran, but I think out have superheroes. I think the only one that I really love is Bat I love Batman ofself. I love the villains. I love Gotham So this is kind of for me. I think if you're not like into that stuff to that degree and I'm not a comicy or anything I don't know anything about that Ever since I was a little kid, I was five or six when Batman came out, like the Kat and Batman and that was like a huge movie for people, you know my age and certainly everyone else that was older And so that's always kind of been my beat. I wasn't into like Adam West or whatever. And I even likek the nineties Batman movies. like N not Batman Returns E everyone likes that, likeike the campy ones. I even dig those and certainly the nolan ones are a Amazing So And the new one was good. Yeah, the Batman Yeah. I liked that as well I saw that in the theater actually, which is rare for me. So It's I'm kind of into it for that reason I was saying that like how many times are they gonna to make us relive after the wing But this is like stitching all these things together in a very comical sort of way so that like it's seamless like It's I want I want to spoil it for people, but it's it's It's cool. and I really, really enjoy it. I will say that it gets a little repetitive where I don't want to play it for more than like a couple hours because I'm the kind of guy in Lego games where I gotta beat the shit out of everything I know you don't have to. And in fact, Mike and I were talking about this I'm like, there's a real tension in Lego games where it's like it's kind of a waste of time. to Destroy everything in a room or whatever becausecause you don't have good multipliers yet. And like you're going get a multiplier in the game later on where you're going to have like billions of fucking studs. So like having like, it's like, who gives a shit, but I can't stop. Like I won't stop And then it gets a little Repetitive, but that's my fault But I gott to say, man, the game is is shockingly. likeike, I'm shocked by it where I'm like, this is really a cool evolution of it I know it wasn't the core travelerss talales game guys that did the horizon game, but that just kind of took the wind out of myselfells where I'm like, this kind of sucks as a Lego game And it's good to know that they still have the magic and are evolving the magic and I like that and I think a lot of it comes from the fact that Lgal games were like on a conveyor belt for a long time And ye that's cool It's like, Yeah, take advantage of just like you do with your toys. takeake advantage of these licenses and make all your money and people love them and they were good I actually liked some of the Lgo games on the Vita. I thought the ports were pretty good I played the Lgo Batman games there as I think they I think the slower more deliberate releases is going to do a lot for them because it allows them to explore and make these more robust games. It's no longer about like these a million reskins of like the same three types or anything like that. It's like, no, you have specific characs like Catwan's a character. She does this Alfred's a character. he does this you know, ye and so on and so forth. Gordon is a character and he does this. So Yeah I recommend it Like I think it's really cool. So I'm playing that and I'm like, I need something else. It's an easy game to balance. I'm not really in for the story. We all know these stories anyway. So it's funny you brought up San Andreas, because I was like, I'm gonna to play GA five. And in fact, I was like, I'm going to look into this and the PS five version came out twenty twenty two. and all the rest and And I'm like you know what What was that game that came out where the studio went out of business recently. And I went and looked it up and the studio was quuali Labs And the game is Lunar Abyss And I gott to say, man This game is fucking' dope There's a melancholy to playing it because you know the studio didn't survive But for people that are unfamiliar with it, it is a very stylized, I would say dbleA first person shoot story based single player And it's got it's interesting, dude. It's like one piece doom Looks like it looks like it moves like Wolfenstein. Yeah, yeah, a little bit of Wolfenstein. It's got the kinetics of doom, but not the fine Control of Doom Tomism absolute masterpiece of movement So it's a little bit of doom. But let's say it's a little bit of Iid Yeah. and then it's a little bit of returnal which is interesting or Sarow's in that it's You'll see it when the enemies attack The way they shoot at you and stuff, but it's in first person, it's notd person It's a little bit of metroid prime Like even down to like shooting doors to open them But like a lot of the platforming and more puzzle solving aspects of it And here's the interesting one It's a little bit of freedom wars Because the entire game the idea of the game is reducing your prison sentence by doing tasks Although it's more story driven in that regard And so it's about the visuals are dope, dude, and And I gott to say like there's a real artistic merit to this game in the way it's presented that I think is quite extraordinary It's thirty dollars. I was't thrilled about paying thirty dollars for a game in which the studio went out of business but it's like, because it's the moneys going to the plish probably at this bless you by the. And u So about this like lunar. I think what I think the way I understand it is like it's it's a future Earth There's like this blood moon that appears over the surface of the Earth And it's like this thing that has no It's this thing with like infinite parameters Like, so you go into this like space and there's no like the the spaces are endless But like they're all just randomized and it's not like randomized for the game. It's like this is the way the world is. Like there's no form to this place and prisoners from eararth and send them there and put them into these like these proxy robots like these androids and make them do missions. And they so they're in like a jail cell. they show you like in a jail cell contontrolling this thing in this like endless thing with like no temporal existence And you're like every time you do something, like the years go down on your sentence. and you start with like nine thousand years or something And it's pretty cool I'm digging it I'm really digging it. and it's just one of those games, dude, we were talking about this earlier about great good and great games and not being enough. This is one of those if this game came out in the late PS three era Even in the PS four Xbox one era, it probably would have sold five hundred thousand dollars. and the studio would be making a sequel There's just so little room for this kind of thing where this kind of thing comes in. a few people recommended it to me over time, I think, but I just never really looked into it and I'm like, this is I'm fairly early on there's six chapters I got through the first chapter last night. I was up pretty late doing it actually People should look into this one I really, really like it. So yeah, it's like Id Yeah, I'm looking mes returnal meets Metroid Prime, meets Freedom Wars So if that sounds interesting to you. Check out Luna, LUNA Abyss quality labs And I'll get the GTA five soon, I think And I still have a few other things to do. I want to put replay control I got to be Al Allen Wake too, but the summer is long and there's time yet Oh yeah, that's right, you still haven't u uh All Wake two, You haven'tat it? Yeah I think I'll beat Allan Wake two and then I think I'll replay control and I'll probably time that into it's going to tough, I don't know what I don't know. becausecause at that point D of the Blood of the Dawn walkers out. I don't know, man.' I'm being very ambitious. I'm always overly ambitious. I've playing a ofames though. I'm on I'm on a crazy platinum run, like I think I think my biggest platinum hall was twenty three and I think I'm already for a year and I think I'm at thirteen or fourteen or something. So I think I need nine to match it, which is Thats that means I'm playing too because I don't getull ship platems No. All right Let's get into six questions, comments, conerns ideas, Chris and this episode ofacred symb as we always do, with inquiries from the audience. You submit your inquiries on patreon d. com slash last dayay Media in the threads on the news feeed. We respond to them You've already heard a bunch of them throughout the show. Here's six more about random topics that I thought were germane to the things we usually care about. Remember, our threads go live on Wednesdays and are deleted Thursday, so you have twenty four hours to. wire CJ Hines begins things off and he says, C me Chris. What is Val smoking with the steam machine pricing Is this an ominous sign for what's to come for the PS six Maybe What do you think about what's going on with the steam machine? The pricing is over a thousand dollars for the lowest version of it. The rumor is that they were supposed to be somewhere in the seven hundred dollars range Yeah. obbviously the economic realities have changed mightily I uh I don't know anything about technology as people know, but I do know P like Moore's Law are saying like this thing is incredibly underpowered and they're ripping people off with the price even at the component pricing. like they're selling it at a profit It gets into which is fine, but it gets into what I was saying at I don't really know who this thing. I remember I was saying this one I was like, I don't, and this was before all the price stuff. I was like, I don't know who their customer is because isn't their customer someone who already uses steam And therefore, you can't really subsidize the machine because they're already there. So I don't really know what they're doing with with this thing. I don't know. there' Yeahah. I mean, there could have been a reality where like I would have picked this thing up but like not at seven hundred fifty dollars N not at seven hundred fifty and certainly not at u A thousand. and by the way, that's a thousand with no steam controller Yeah, the no controller thing. People are upset about that, but it's funny I pitch that as an idea that Sony should pursue if that's they need to do to keep the cost down, especially if they use the same controller Well right, yeah. I mean like it's it's Yeah, I'm sorry, Well, to be fair, like it's a steam machine, you can You can hook up whatever controller you want to. Right. And that's what I was going to say was they have an unusual advantage where Sony has to use a proprietary thing, but like they could just be like we're using the PSI controller. so don't wor rightight. It's It's less that they're selling something without a controller. It's the fact that something that's being sold is a thousand dollars without a controller. That's That's what's insane about it to me Yeah, I don't know, man. I don't think They wanted this, you know, I don't think they wanted it to be this much. Uh it's obviously and look, let's be real like this thing' going to sell out. like people are going to buy and it's it's it's It's going to do well I think it's already sold out in Japan or something I think I read that So like there's a market for it. like And I think at the right price point, I probably would have bought it because like I like the idea especially with having And make no mistake, like it would never be like my main way to play. likeike it would never be like, oh, I'm going to play the newest games on this. But I have a long standing steam library that goes back to like the I mean, it goes back to twenty thirteen, but even games that bought I've bought since then it goes back to like, you know, really, really old stuff that I just don't have access to on either Xbox or PlayStation. And so having a really small simple box in my living room that I could just put those things up on that is appealing to me 'cause I hate the living room PC thing. I don't like it. Like I tried it in a couple of the places that I was living It's It's just isn't it's not. It's not good. more power to you if you like it There is a market for like like a bespoke U living room friendly PC that just runs as a console and doesn't have any bullshit atttached to it. I think that's cool But uh I don't know, man. notot at this price. and I'm sure they didn't want it to be this way either, but Honestly, even at seven fifty, I think maybe a bit much I could see maybe like six Yeah, its it's a lot, man. I mean, well, again, not knowing that the power differential apparently makes it weaker than a PS five, like a base PS five. So That's what they say. And I'm like at that price, that's fucking crazy. I mean, but again, this goes into Valve I think actually u Gabe said it recently where like they realizeed they're kind of over the barrel with manufacturers and I think he had said something like, if they like refuse to buy at certain prices, then they're kind of out of the loop You know, like you you I would believe that because you're getting all like limited allocations offered to you and they'll just offer to someone else and then you're out So right There is a level of urgency, but I I would be very curious like I feel like this is a This is a bit of a mine that they walked over Like they didn't, and they said it themselves. I didn't mean to be so like I always I always kind around about how I'm right about things and Sometimes I am and sometimes I'm not. But like I didn't intend on being so right about the steam machine for this reason. Right?ight I was like, who is the customer for this period? But now like it's a cute because Pricing is nuts The five hundred and twelve gigabyte model, like you said, just the model with no controllers one thousand forty nine with the controller one thousand one hundred and twenty eight Tw terabyte, one thousand three hundred and forty nine with the controller, one thousand four hundred and twenty eight There are I will compliment it for a few things. is first of all, it's a really good looking thing I love the industrial design of it. and it has a lot of little ports and things like a lot of USB ports and like a lot of accuchs, which is cool as SD Card Reader, I. So it's not like this cheap stripped down like fat PS three where they started taking everything out of it. And it's like it's like an Oa or something. Right, exactly I um So I think the industrial design is cool. And I think it's going, you know, it runs Steam OS three and it'll probably I heard that on there. I can't keep the fucking page for it up because everything moves is animated. It's so distracting You know, I'm like trying to read shit about it and it's like this fucking dancing literally a dancing console gif. and like it's like, o my. I feel like I'm on Geo cities or something like that So u So anyway you can go get this thing if you want, but so all right, so what does this mean for PS six? Is it ominous? Yeah, it's ominous But I think there are certain things as we've discussed that Sony controls that Steam doesn't Steam is Valve is not an electronics manufacturer. Sony is Valve is not making a lot of these. Sony's going to be making many millions and tens of millions of their units Hopefully at some point. Um, So the economies of scale are different. Here's the thing, Chris is that There is can't release a thousand dollar console. I Sony Like I just refuse to believe that they are literally going to release a thousand dollars console becausecauseuse it just seems like What are you doing It would be crazy And I really I will say like, I'm not going to bet on anything, but Dollars to donuts, you have to assume that like, they'll get that thing. they're not going gonna sell thousand dollars mayaybe eight ninety nine c or something like that. Just the psychological value of not seeing that I think will go a long way for its audience. But if the consoles are really going to be this expensive then it really does show you that the PS five is going to exist forever and read By the way, Mike and I were talking about this on one of our walks last night, which I was like, you know, I've been compelled by this. becausecause we've been talking about like, what are you going to do about timing Fall twenty seven, Spring twenty eighth, Those are really your only options if you want to manufacture now. And if you bail out of manufacturing, as we've said, then there's all these costs you incurrage just they're going to make the PSX. think I think that's well underood. It's not like they're going to back away Yeah. I've been kind of compelled, Chris by this argument that like they should just release it when they were going to release it for whatever it costs And the argument is and I was like, this is a good point Is that like all right. So like the argument is There are millions of people that will buy it whatever you whatever you sell it for. firstirst of all I'll buy it As long as it's not like like so aggreed I'm getting kicked in the balls for some like whatever it is I'm to buy I probably buy both the hand held and the conso definite going to do that And there are probably millions of us So even if the adoption is slow and there's a lot of cross generation support, why wouldn't you wantan to just sell it to those people And then later on, you can just release drop the price and then you'll capture all those other people. And their argument is basically like you're never going to get those people without the price being right. You will get these people with the price regardless If you get to that point at some point, then just keep the timeline And you basically have two bursts and I'm like, yeah, that is a decent point. There almost is no reason to back away from it. You kind of just gott to do it and and By the way, we might not see as much of a price intolerance as we think It's like the complaining going on about Grand Deft Autero six with the physical dition. Reasonable enough But this is a non issue for most people who aren't gonna to bu it physically anyway Never worryed. they don't give a shit It might be that like the complaining about the pricing is this acute thing online That's amplified by people being upset, but people might be willing to pay one thousand dollars for a PlayStation. And by the way A thousand dollars for a replaceation next year. will be cheaper than a six hundred dollars PS three was in two thousand six. I don't want to give Sony any excuses That is true If you adjust it for inflation all my debts. Now it didn't work out great for them with the PS three, but they did sell millions of them that price. Now Yeah, I want to be clear. I do think It this kind of goes into the same thing about like, u you know, how many how many gamers are women? It's like it's, it's not a big percentage but it's still like millions upon millions. Like there's there's like it's there's a number of people who are like, you know what I mean? So like, when you When you look at the machine like the PS six at a thousand dollars, yes, there will be millions of people who will buy it. The issue is like I just I guess it depends on like whether or not it matters to you that you're not going to sell nearly as many as the people like it it's going to be like a numbers wise Surely A failure in comparison to the PS five generation. Yeah. Dost certainly, if it comes out next year. deffinitely Um, If that doesn't matter to you and you just want to get your money and you want to justust kind of stay the course and understand that you'll pick people up over time That's sure that's that's fine. I mean, the only other choice you have, really is just not make a p of six and they're not going to do that. So I guess I could see the argument of just like just doing it. It's just Nobody wants it Yeah, it's hard for you to visualize and yet the reliable leakers like Moris Law and Kepler and these other guys are like, they're doing it. Like they're doing it, you know, And I'm like, yeah, I guess you just This is what I think was happ have faith, I guess in what you're doing, I guess. I suppose Yeahah. And I think they look at it as I think they've embraced what they've been forced to embrace with the PS four into the PS five and so on was is like the PS five isn't going anywhere. So like we can like We don't want it to go anywhere and it's not going anywhere So like, could we just have the best of both worlds, keep our timeline and The PSX supported through the two thousand thirties, basically and have iterative versions of it as well Because I think when and we know this and I think we've said this, our audience knows better, but like when people say, like, you just got to walk away and like not do it. it's like you can't it's not something it's just like it's you could. I told you, it would be the most consequential thing PlayStation ever did West it to Be like we're not going forward with this machine. The machine As I noted, I think on stream like The machine exists. I'm not telling you that because I've seen it or I know that. It's like it exists. Like they have them They're not manufactured yet, but they're making them by hand. They probably have a bunch of different stuff people are specking to them when they make games By this time next year, I assume they will be manufactured beginning to be manufactured and sitting in warehouses. So pulling out means they have to start over again And that's not a small thing for your R and D and for the health of the company and they can't take big risks. And by the way I think this is what Asha is saying with the Xbx situation where it's Its it's fairly clear that the next boox is going to be an OEM becausecause they don't even want to deal with it. Yeah Like, I think they're just like, we don't even And I think this is what she's saying when they' when she was saying like, vious generation the previous leadership made decisions that make this really expensive for us. Yeah, they made the decisions that they're not in line right now for components You know, So they have to like buy things at current rates or future rates. and they just want to offload that shit. so they're going to. So I really believe that above all else it's like this ultimately affects Xbox more because they're apparently not well positioned and Sony is maybe It maybe it'll be impossible for somebody to ever well position themselves in this regard. but Well, maybe you can do what almost You could position yourself, I mean, if the steam machine is coming out, right and it's a thousand dollars. Granted, we know the economic reasons for that. We also know That valve doesn't have a subscription service that they can use to kind of leverage a lower cost for the machine. They have to make profit on every unit sold in order it to be a worthy endeavor likeike we know this intrinsically, but your average person They look at sticker pricing and that's kind of where it begins and ends you could see maybe a future where like because we all understand that the PS five is not going anywhere, because we understand that even the PS four is still sticking around in some late respects that Like I could see a future where they're just like, you know what? No, the PS six is a thousand dollars and it's a boutique This is for hardcore people, I guess If you want to, you know, you know what I mean? Like like why not really at that point? If you know because we know, I just know If this thing comes out next year, it's not going to sell PS five numbers. No, no way. I mean, there's no way. It just isn't. And if you already know that You're almost It's almost better to position yourself as, you know, we're going to make a profit on this thing. It's going be a hardcore machine. It'll be like the thousand dollars was it thirtieth anniversary PS fives where it's just like this is for the, you know For those among us who care and those among us who really, really want it thousandousand bucks Um And maybe, you know, a year from now' drop it We'll drop the price if that's possible And we'll take it from there because we've already kind of accepted that this is going to be a concession year or a concession machine or it's going to be a machine that's just it has no hope of doing the same the same rate I always wonder if that's maybe a better position for them. So that way they can at least understand or they can at least telegraph. It's like, yeah, it's a more expensive machine They' deper let's at least make money on it. Sorry I mean over talk. No, no, I'm sorry. the They're back into the conversation, I think of having to subsize this thing, I truly subsidize it And that obviously really hurt them with PS three. I mean, they they were at six hundred dollars, they were subsizing the PS three deeply. I mean, that's what's so fucking crazy about. you know, is Like you start charging six hundred dollars for this thing and you're subsidizing it hundreds of dollars You know, and I don't, I don't, that's why they lost so much money. I mean, we've talked about the the irony of like the more they sold, the worse they did because they had to saturate the market, but they were taking these short term losses that were like insurmountable in a way, and it was because they lost money for the generation. The thing that I think with That's so fasinating with what they do with PS six is if they position it as a more nicheed device, which is fine. I don't think that that's necessarily a bad idea. It's just It goes into like, well, what does this mean for games Like at that point, you can't have PS six games Like it's got to be basically this modular Rain And then I think that that lowers the tolerance for the machine even more I will tell you, I mean, they're in a tough spot with this thing. They really are. I there's there's there's no doubt. I agree, man. likeike I don't I'm also kind of the mind like I'm not And look, I know that I know that sometimes Look We're talking about how like, well, they can't make PS six games for this thing. if if it's going to be a M more niche product It's going to be a morning's product anyway Be it's again, it's just coming into a market where nobody like people comparatively are not that interested. L you're going to have to How How many years did the PS the PS five sell in the first I don't know, couple like let's say the first year How What was that number? Oh look, He' five, five sold in first year. seventeen point three million Well, so all right, so that's the thing. It's like Are you going are you comfortable making a AAA game in the modern ecosystem, right? whereere ApleA games are like, what? like three hundred million Th a million dollars. to sell in the first year at full price with keeping one hundred percent of the profit for probably I would guess like maybe like thirteen million. in the first year. and that's like being like relatively Nice Like thirteen million the first year. Um Although granted like maybe maybe we'll have a simil adoption rate because like it was difficult to come by the PS five in comparison. So I don't know. I just like I think you're kind of you're kind of fucked either way because you have budgets that are ballooning. you're going to have this thing. These games that are going to be locked to new hardware that people are going to have to buy to play it. I kind of see a reality where the PS six comes out and there are no PS six games. Anyway likeike whether it's niche or not Becauseuse why would like it's kind of insane to do that in the modern in like, why would you Why would you lock out tens of millions of people in this environment where games are this expensive to me. Yeah. it's going to being like it I don't know what you do about it really. Like it's crazy. And look to be fair, we don't know what this machine is. We don't know what it looks like. We don't know necessarily what it does. We have rumors, we have SPCs We have all of it on paper And you know, seeing it on paper and seeing it in person is one thing. There is an o factor to seeing a new machine and you know, the allure of a new shiny box and aybe there's functionality in it we don't know. there's obviously that PS six handld That's in the conversation as well as to like how that fits into all this whether it's part of it whether it's a separate thing.ike No idea how they're going to go about that. It could be that like by this time next year There is appetite for it Uh we see it and there's more interest because it's It's doing something novel or interesting that justifies it beyond just the normal machine. But I look at it as a PS five owner now or PS five proro owner right now. who just kind of isn't wanting Like and I don't know what I would really need out of a new machine to even be excited to pay a thousand dollars for it. Like I know I don't know what more they can do. short of doing something like almost like Nintendo swwitch level stuff where it's just like I can take my PSI pro basically with me out of the machine. And that would be something That would get me to buy it for sure. That's what's w originality, but I don't know. I'm wondering that with Chris with the handheld shit where I'm like, Mike and I were again, were talking about this over our walk last night where I was like, I wonder I wonder if like the PS six itself, like the console will be like the boutique expensive thing And what they're going to say is like the handheld is dockable like a switch and that's like the base console And then if you want this like really souped up then you go with this even more expensive machine. Like I wonder what they're going to do. I don't know, man. I'm so excited. like we're going to know in the next If they're going to really release it next fall, I would imagine the next six to, eight months. Not six eight months. I think they're going to get through the holidays and then They'll go for sure. Yeah. I think you'll have like you might have like a little Serny fireside chat. Yeah in February or something. Indeed. But I don't know. Yeahah. I just I just think it's a rough position to be in Um And I really like I really I don't think being just a simply more powerful version of what we have right now is going to cut it. for most people. Again, millions of people will buy it But that's not for your average person.'s yeah It's thely adopters. The early adopters were there for we you. I mean, like really it's the story is told as time goes on. I think Vita showed it in a pretty significant way that it's like the Playsttation community is more fickle than you think Um The Vita's failure was Surprising to. based on the fur around PS three at that time, but that's a whole another story. Anton K wrote in and said, Hey, sacred crew, if Xox is spun off, I hate Xox and all castsen and I hate it. I don't know why they did that. like shit Would Sony have any interest in investing true they will be getting most of Xbox' games PlayStation, but is there something about buying low and investing in possible future success? Similarly in the way Sony is invested in Epic, would it makes sense to diversify by adding Xbox to the portfolio. Thanks and have a great weekend. What Anton is referring to is the idea thats There's this idea that was reported and therefore, I think is probably going to ultimately happen, which is that Not that they're going to be sold but that they're going to be splitted off as a subsidiary Now people that don't know very much about video games were making a big deal about this and I' like, guys, Play station' is subsidiary of Sony B L like Xbox was actually oper operating way closer to its parent company then PlayStation is operated And SIE is its own corporation that is a subsidiary and wholly owned by Sony And that allows for people from outside to play around easier. Now, Sony didn't do it for that reason. I don't think in the beginning, they just keep all their shit like that. Like the pictures unit and the music unit is the same. Um Microsoft might do that in order to distance itself from risk and attract investments However, if this happens Two things. it's going to be that's I mean I'm not even saying kind of making it into a subsidiary, but if they start attracting outsiders, the hardware is over evenven O AM hardware I don't think they would do Be people would want to make games and the entertainment quality of the ubiquity of games I say this not to be a dickhead, but I just mean it is that I think part of the reason Xbox has struggled is because they don't own very much of consequence And the things that they've acquired, they either overpaid for or mishandled So I think the only example of something that seems to be fairly healthy, continuously healthy is Minecraft Um And that would be something that would be interesting to have, I guess But none of the Xbox stududio. none of the expert There's a lot of talent within all these places but nothing that Sony should want and Especially because as you said, Anton, the they're getting all these games anyway. So there's no reason to invest in it. But M maybe some Bedz, the properties would be interesting I don't know. It would be it would be interesting if if They had a Ubisoft like thing happen to them where like there were investors externally that didn't want to be exposed to the larger risk of the brand and We were talking about advantage earlier with Ubisoft. It's like, you spin everything that we care about into another entity. We'll invest in that. And all this other shit will remain here because There are some great studios. I think Obsidian is a great studio, Playground's obviously a very capable studio and some others. And then of course, like IidD and machine games. pllus you have the whole call of Duty apparatus and Blizzard. There's things there are worth investing in and I don' something think Sony shouldon to have to do with any of it. And I don't know what they would have to g So I say no. I mean, I don't know if I have a particularly unique sance on it. I think you've kind of put it out pretty well They're already getting these games, there's no reason to put more money into it And I just think that this idea that that This is where Xbox fans got lost in the sauce with like expanding the first party. And what happened to emmbrace her, I think most significantly is like You actually don't need to own all this stuff and you can't even handle all Like even if you own all of it, it's like, what are you going to do with all of it You're going to have like your teams making like rival shooters, rival role playaying games, rival racing it. it's It does It doesn't really make any sense when you when you really think about over expansion of your like you have to be very deliberate That's why always thought Qantxtream was such an interesting acquisition target way back in the day, not anytime recently where it's like you actually fit in an interesting way You make things that no one else makes and and part of your games are part of Playstation's identity but it's like, You don't need all even it and machine games existing in the same space is kind of Alongside callall of duty, alongside halo, alongside it's like You don't see a conflict here. Like And this is why I keep making the argument, though people don't like to hear it.'s like Sony should really consider shortening its roster and investing way more money even in each of the games and making them truly distinct behemoths and let Everyone else do the work for you and every other space. Have a shooter have a role playing game, have an action game, have like and just do it. you know, I don't know. Maybe that's too simplistic, but There's no doubt that these pieces cannibalize each other By the way, you saw that even internal tension with Grand Trismo and Drive Club back in the day about how those games didn't really make sense And Pliffin and wasn't thrilled about it They just weren't. The Xbox stuff can stay far away from us as far as I'm concerned. please We have enough we have enough problems Okay We're struggling enough as it is. You go ahead and keep whatever you're doing Oh All right. simimple minded Steve wrote in. that hey sacred bros What do you think Sony's new initiative will be for this upcoming generation Their live service push has been disappointing and sales of their first party games haven't been as impactful as during the PS four generation I wonder if they'll revert to the PS two generation's approach focusing on second party partnerships with time exclusivity, which I believe is a positive move dditionally, will studios be able to concentrate on smaller gaming experiences that would appeal more to the upcoming handheld PS six. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks We kind of talked about this actually already in I didn't really realize it just earlier and like what the strategy will be for PS five or PS six itself. and what the complexion of the generation will be I really believe that this idea of more. and I was just saying this with the studios just more, more No, man. I don't know what people don't understand about this We were just talking about Qality Labs game I'm playing Qality Labs game. I'm playing Luna Abyss. It's like There are a million of these you don't you need true differentiators. The era of small PlayStation games is dead. Dead I don't know how people don't like it's been dead. Open your fucking eyes They're not when Japan' studio went away, it was over Um and Astrobots about as small as you're going to get. out of the first party now. and I think that that's Good. don't want more small things. That's not how you attract people to your console And you know that because these games don't sell. So we have to dissuade ourselves and disabuse ourselves with this notion. that like we need to have this complexion of lotots of different things flooding the ecosystem and it's like, no, you have to have great shit flooding ecosystem That's what I thought And I do believe one of the things you said simple minded Steve is true is that Second party relationships will become more important. and it is my assumption that this is the part of what Sony's doing right now. and has been doing maybe for the last eighteen months. is we got to just go back to the way we used to do things. which is just getting bets started limit our exposure to their failures. We can act as publishers and stewards and IP owners And then if things work out, we go from there A game like Wolverine is going to pay dividends for a for PlayStationationss brand in a way that ten small games combined would And I mean that both from sales Like Wolverine will sell better than ten of those games combined and from the way it's going to be covered and treat And the same thing is true for intergalactic, and the same thing is true for the God of War game. and so on and so forth. And the same is going to be true for the new uncharted game And we really can't go much beyond that because we don't ' have any games talk about I., I'm just being be honest the So That's my stance is that they need to they need Playstation's got to be Blay Box I mean Otherwise, why do you have this machine at all? o play your PS four But yeah, I mean, I agree and disagree. I think I think you're right that AAA like they need to focus on AAA, but I also think AA needs to I think there needs to be a reevaluation of what AAA means because I just think what AAA means now is just not sustainable. Like even if Even if it was all you were focused on and you like spun off like Let's say you spun off a bunch of different teams that were doing smaller games off and you downsize, you have like maybe like five studios or something be drastic U That's a lot of pressure riding on those games And it's a and Budgets, man They're getting crazy. I understand why they're getting crazy O obviously economic realities aside, but also just because like the audience reacts so poorly whenever things aren't up to snuff and to a most ridiculous degree. Do remember Puddlegate with like Spideran Yeah. And like and like I talked about this a lot too, but like the Craig thing with Halo Infinant, it's like it just becomes this big PR nightmare whenever something isn't like one hundred percent fucking perfect That's an attitude that I think needs to really fucking die. And I don't know how you do And it's not again, it's not to say that We should accept the less then, you know, great games, but I also think like the things that we The things that we identify as quality markers aren't necessarily as important to what a video game is as what we as what we think it is I think we're really miscalibrated I think part of F, I think this would have happened anyway. People always chase fidelity and as technology increases, but like I think this is the This is kind of the unforeseen consequences and the damage of, I think the last of us in some way We're just like These games were so like above Aove the the board and so above Um Fidelity wise, like what we anticipated or what we could have expected that like everything that isn't that is considered not real or not legitimate And uh I't know. I don't know what the answer. I don't how you really fix that because they've kind of dug this hole themselves. They've kind of established themselves as like we make things that are you know We make HBO, we make We make cinema We make the cinema video games. That's what we do We make High fidelity, high narrative you know, high brrow. stuff that demands hundreds of millions of dollars And damn near a decade of development time. And I just don't Got to be We got to grow beyond that I think for the health of the industry and also just like The health of the medium, I think Yeah. I think I think you're right down scale. You're absolutely right They all know this. They all know that you can't they can't keep this up And you're right, they've painted themselves themselves into this corner It was their strategic advantage And by the way, it's It kind of back firing now because now a lot of those games are reading the same. Yep And now it's like a point of criticism that like, oh, it's the movie games and And it's like, well, now look Now it's like you can't even downscale because it's going it's going to look embarrassing compared to your previous work And if you keep going the course You're going to make your money, I guess, but it's going to be more expensive to continue and people are going to be less and less interested as the novelty of that kind of cinematic, you know, once of a one of a kind like hyper real experience wears off Like God of war was Gotta worryre using the one shot camera and looking as good as it did and being as narrative focused as it did in twenty eighteen was like a It was that was new. That was like a breath of freshir relative Now we've seen it twice already and we're going to see it again again, it's not say that game' is going gonna to be bad, but like 's it'sess novel It's like actually the switch in switch two is actually a great example. Like Switch two is like It's not that it's not that they don't sell or that people aren't interested in them The novelty of having that functionality in a machine is significantly less this time than it was the first time Nintendo's got their hardcore, you know, audience and going to sell really, really well The novelty, the appeal of that machine to absolutely everybody is missing in comparison. I don' have a desire to have a switch to 's truly because the entire desire I had for the Switch one was that idea of just like, oh, what a weird idea, a novel idea to have a console that is it a home console that docks and then you can take it on the go. It's interesting Not that interesting anymore in comparison to how it used to be. So like, don't know. I think I think you got to be careful, man. I think You're right where the machines and the first party need to focus on AAA, but We really need to reframe what that means. said we can't be doing this. We can't be having seven year dev cycles four hundred million dollars budgets, and it's insane Yeah It's got something's got to give. And of course AI is going to be a major part of that drive that they're going to. I don't know if you saw that Timweeney interview actually about how he was castigating Val for making deevelopers put AI warnings on their games, which that he feels like is unfair and is like causing those games get beat up but they're trying to find the efficiencies development whver I'm like I think you got to find a different We'll figure it out probably won't actually figurered out everyone's going to continue to eat each other And that's that's the scary thing about The industry we've said before is like there's no crash coming. It's just like where the money comes from More and more and more and more and more and more and more money spending people are spending on games. It's just there's so many losers in the market that it become everything's going to become, I mean I think you're already seeing the risk avers And in fact, we're going to talk about a game that was decided unriskverse but for some reason completelyignored by its publisher. Benjamin Schrod wrote In that high sacred symbolists Midnight Murder Club received its final update this week If you don't recall, this is a multiplayer horror FPS game that was released on PS five and Steam in August of twenty twenty five More notably, this was published by PlayStation, which means internally they consider it first party I played it upon release and had a lot of fun for a few days, but then fell off quicker as player numbers stagnated and it became nearly impossible to find a match As far as I can tell, PlayStation never did much market the thing, and it didn't even receive a last dit pittity release on PS plus to bolstert its numbers. In fact, PlayStation didn't really even acknowledge it at all I feel like I'm taking crazy pills every time I talk about or I think about this game. Is there some conspiracy about why Playsttationers want to let their own published game die so quickly? Is it a matter of never ha faith in it to begin with, or do you think there's a juicier story in there Your insight is appreciated Midnight Murder Club is a weird one This is of course a game made by Velen. Those are the guys that made Knockoutut City or whatever that game is called And I was reading about it today because they did in fact release their final up to the game The game is se hundred ninet nine, by the way, right now on Steam and it's probably also that way on PlayStation network as well. But if you read you'll see I thought this was kind of cool They say they say that, you know, the game will continue and all the rest, but obviously it's it's dead now And they say, quote, at Velen, we feel strongly about game preservation And they say see also knockout city private server ions. So we'll come back to Patch Midnight Murder Club again if anything in the future prevents people from playing it the way they can today So That's cool. The game will exist in perpetuity I am deeply confused about what happened here and I don't know why Sony was so guns shy about it, considering the things that they're willing to talk about and showing it behind a la Fam stars or something like that Probably it wasn't bad It was a splatoon rip off in a way, but This game I thought was kind of neat And and clearly Sony saw something in it I would have seen something in it too. I don't, you know I wouldn't have expected to be so unpopular. And I don't think Sony talking about it or tweeting about it or whatever, putting it in a state of play would have mattered. But it is peculiar that they just let it die because these are the kinds of bets that I thought that they would want to make It's this is why I always say it's like just go make ten bets Yeah. And this is one of them. It's like, okay, it didn't work, but like did you try? I mean It didn't seem like a bad game It didn't seem like that was the problem. It seemed like people just weren't that into it. I don't know, man. I don't know what happened with this game and You're right. It didn't get a PS plus release or anything. They just ref. I think there was like a single Playsttation blog post about it and that was it And it is a PlayStation published game It only has two hundred and fifty reviews on Steam. That means it's sold in the low thousands probably. So I don't, I don't know. I don't know what happened here Did you ever I know Dustin tried it and he liked it. Did you ever try this game Midnight Murder C club No, I never got around to it It just kind of felt like I had a sinking pit in my stomach with that game where it was just like, this is a really cool and novel idea It's it's unconventional and interesting and subversive It doesn't stand a chance It became clear too when it came out. I think that probably put other people off to where. it' wass like, well, it's clearly not working So why Yeah It's like watching a TV show that got canceled Right, exactly. It is really it's a bummer because I think it's a really good idea. I think it's interesting But I really do believe this. I just think the general audience is just not interesterested in things that are conceptually challenging or intriguing or interesting. I think I think they want stuff that's easily digestible, I think, I think I think it's why third person narrative action games are so big. It's because like it's the kind of thing that even passerby or like an observer can kind of get into. They can watch it kind of like a movie. there's like a casual aspect to it More so than there is. I think it's why the first person shooter is kind of dying. in broader sense, it's just like it's a lot more video game. It's a lot more intensive It requires a lot more So you know, you you knew not only is it an FPS but it's also this really unique idea and it' it's playing with light and dark and it's Oh no, man, it's It's a cool idea and unfortunately, that' Now what you need you need like You need safe Yeah now too bad and that And I knew that when it came out, I was just like, even before it came out, I was just like, this is a really cool idea and I'm really into it Not going to happen Yeah, it's too bad. It would have been like this is one of those things where it's like again, if this was Xbox Live arcade or whatever, would have been huge If this was like it reminds me of a little bit even knockout City. I remember playing knockout City. It wass like this is Mondayight comb This is like that kind of game many such cases Many such cases and it's just it's a different time now. and I'm telling you, man Many, many great games are and to be fair, like I don't know if Midnight Murder Club is great But I don't think it's a simple. I don't think it's as simple as it used to be in the sense that When something fails, I don't think it's a simple clear cut case where it's just like, it's terrible or even that it wasn't good, or even that it wasn't great anymore. I think I think there's going to be a lot of great games that just die Be there's not a lot of attention, there's not enough room and there's not enough interest because a lot of the audience now is just not really hardcore about it And what's what's a shame too, Chris is that these a lot of these games are contingent on un So like, It can findine in nature be enjoyed by itself. Hopefully this will be solved in the future. I mean, this is where AI could be useful is just populating these places with bots and where anyone could just go play anything at any time. I mean, I guess that would be kind of cool, but It reminds me of, you know, I really think that that typing battle Royale is a really great idea too. and I wonder, it's like, That seems like such a fucking sick idea and yet who will people really play it? I don't know. RIP and peace Midnight Murder Club barely knew you. Yeah Euen Acerote in and said goodood day to you, Colin, it's funny, Miardi and good day to Chris, really, really Reun Would either of you be opposed to allowing gambling software on your gaming devices if there were safeguards and proper regulations in place I personally don't really like to gamble but I'd maybe occasionally do it if it was embedded in fun experiences on my Nintendo or PlayStation consoles. I'd imagine something like vampire survivors or Pegle with real monetary investments With every other pastime dipping its toes in the gambling, may is it maybe inevitable? Thank you. I'll now return to the receiver and Harken I wonder, dude like There's multiple layers to this. I have no problem with gambling We are sponsored by Prize ps occasionally I think that's cool. Pricepix is founded by run by Mikey Aaro, which is so interesting And in the past, we've had others Gambling sponsors too. And I think if you're a responsible adult It's up to you and it's incumbent on you to know what you're getting yourself into And I gamble occasionally. I don't use the apps to do it. I gamble on fantasy football. Like my fantasy leagues are pretty high stakes in my, you know, My serious league in my family leag's say know the tune of hundreds of vollle here It's not anything craz So I have no problem with that and that's one layer because some people just have a problem with it and a lot of people have a problem with its oververe expposure in society, but again, I think it's about what society will tolerate. For instance, cigarettes still sell pretty briskily even though they're labeled about how badly they're going to kill in Mameu Um There are people that are responsible enough and then they're irresponsible. and then no matter how much you make someone try to be responsible, they're just not going to That's why there's like these one eight hundred numbers at the end of gamlingercials and all the rest. It's You gott to take a little bit of agency your own life The second layer to me, Chris is, what would you bet on And it's like you're talking about Pegle and vampire stars like, those are weird to me That's like brain rot gambling shit that you see onli Calci or Um, pooly Met, which are really cool websites. that I really actually I think they're really interesting and neat and I love that people can bet on anything. But that's like that's the example of betting on anything. Right? Right. What if you could bet on Evo What if you could bet on a halo tournament Madden tournament FC Something like that, maybe I think there are way too many complications to make it viable though the major ones being PlayStation is an adult brand kind of, but there's a lot of kids on it. And that's going to get dicey real quick U the the second thing that I think is more important is about the sanctity of what you're betting on This is already a huge problem in sport And you're not a football fan, but this recently came to fruition with a college player, Brandon Sresby and they were Brendon Soreresby who' a quarterback most recently in Texas tech, but played for Cincinnati for a couple of years and was betting on games, including games his team was in or playing in and is not allowed to play in the NFL for the whole year because of it becausecause it is a it's not that anyone really gives a shit about his five dollar bets. It's about The sanctity of the game itself And if you can't trust the people that are playing to not throw games and not do things, it's just so dicey at so many different levels that cannot be controlled for. It's not it's not a real sport. You don't have bookies. like Bookies keep people honest in Vegas like the odds makers because they're experts. they know what the fair odds are and there's so many things to answer. So is it a cool idea? Yeah, sure I have no problem with that. and there could be money to be made on it, but man, that would be complicated Yeah Re complicated I don't know. I think it's I think it's a net negative. I just don't. I'm not I'm not big on it I think I think adults can do whatever they want, but like the reality is it's like it's It's different, like cigarettes are different than Games Because like it's trivial in comparison to kind of circumvent Um, it's like I was thirteen playing emerated games You know what I mean? Right My pnts were like,ah whatever My parents wouldn't to let me smoke at thirteen. And if I really wanted to smoke, it would have been very difficult for me to do it. Right. That's a good point. And I think like It's just the triviality is so diff is so so vast. And gambling addiction is actually kind of like crazy. Like it's actually like it's I didn't really know much about this until I like met some people, but it's like tooute That's danger That is really bad. And it is not to say that people should be babied or whatever, but it's like, I think generally speaking, the more The more friction you can create between people in those kinds of things, the better generally Um addults are going to do what they do, but like definitely in these ecosystems where kids are like kind of everyverywhere like it's best to It's best to leave it out. There's already's there's such a plentiful gambling ecosystem already. likeike I don't really think it needs to be everywhere. Yeah. it just creates a lot of regulatory problems too and problems between countries and you know in terms of what's legal here, but it's just yeah, like you said, like the amount of atttention that would have to be paid to every aspect of it be would cost more than what they would get out of it. And I think the audience would also probably recoil It's funny, Chris.ike there is a problem with gambling in the United States, but I think a lot of it has to do like gambling as old as humanity. People probably gambling ten thousandillion years ago about shit. about who was going to kill this or what is going to do this in the hunter or like, you know, what It's about And I like I've always liked gambling as a Even when I was younger, like I I used ocasionally buy scratch tickets when I was a kid Um And it's like, I think I understood it early on, but I certainly understand as an adult, it's like you're not going to win You can win in the short term And there are professional gamblers that win in the long term, but they are scarce and are they're basically hunted by these companies Like I don't know if people know anything about this. likeike you can get banned from casinos, you can get banned from apps Be too good. And so So they're like they if you win, if you're sitting on a black table and you're like racking up wins they can come to you and be like, getet out You can keep your money, but you're not coming here. you're not playing here anyore bad for us And you have to understand that that's the fucking mentality. So you have to know that it's It's supposed to be a thing that like where you feel a sense of excitement betting on a game. and you win And that's exciting. And then it's you go buy dinner or something like that It's not supposed to be a thing that you do and chase losses and that's what people do. and then You end up in major trouble And which is which is by the way why I think it's it's kind of the thing that like if if at any point you should be introduced to that stuff after you've afterfter you're a kid Yeah, agreed. You know what I mean like you should be able to be because it was dude, it was so trivial for me to like undo the parental lock on my on my homeome consoles, it was ridiculous You know,ane. You remember you might be a little young. Do you remember the V chip This was the thing that was going go into like TV's in the nineties and it was supposed to like give parents p parental controls That sounds right. Beach and then like People realize that like their kids are the smartest tech people in the house and will easily just bypass all of this shit M rendering it moot. Yeah, I think I I think I had a TV with a V chip in it And I think that's where you know they started like You know how in the early two thousands they started raiding everything on TV. I think that was all connected to that Like it would have the rating in the corner That was like a new thing on TV That never happened Anyway, yeah, it's not worth opening this Pandora's box, but I want to say that like I think gambling is fine. Like because I think some people have a real moral problem with it than I guy, don' Like I I just think you have to no one should hold a gun to your head and force you to gamble. But if you're if you're posterously gambling money your money away your own problem. I mean It doesn like I do whatever you want. Right. Like I love going to casinos and gambling, but I always look at it as I actually heard Mike Florio a guy listen to in the football space say it recently and where like you have to look at gambling as like Having an amount of money that this is like you going to the movies. or you going out to dinner or you're doing, it's like, this is the money I'm spending tonight on gambling. You can't go into it being like, I'm going to walk away with this much money and more. You have to walk away with it, you have to go in assuming you're just going gonna lose the money as if you bought something aking money on an activity. Right. And if you're doing that which I've always done And many people have done, then I think you're in good shape. But if not call that one eight hundred gambing number, I guess and watch out for yourself because it it's a bad scene out there. And I do I do unironically love Calciy and poolymarket just because The idea that you can bet on anything is hysterical to me. Like I think that's so fucking awesome and so so ridiculous Like it is cra. anything, anything you want All right, final inquiry comes from Arian YN who says hello, sacred gents. Recently, we've been seeing a lot of negativity and criticism directed at Sony Studios're doubling down on existing IP, but Isn't that essentially how Nintendo has operated for decades Heck M Zea games revolve around familiar themes and story beats, yet each entry feels fresh thanks to its unique world, mechanics, presentation, and sense of adventure Working within an existing IP doesn't necessarily mean repeating the same gameplay, loop, characters or stories. A strong franchise can serve as a foundation for new ideas rather than a limitation on creativity With cost of AA development continuing to rise and publishers increasingly relying on establish brands, is a time for Sony to embrace a similar strategy within its first party studios Inead of focusing primarily on brand new franchises, should they be leveraging their existing IP catalog? create new world settings and characters andameplay experiences under familiar band. Anyway, I'll h up and listen. Well, I think Part of this is Part of the answer is yeah, kind of You have to understand andendend knowo's a unique thing And I think peoplet don't consider that deeply enough Nintendo gets away with shit that no one would get away with. and I've observed this long before I abandoned Nintendo Their games are I mean, I've said this before, theirir games are often overrated. They revisit these same and I don't mean that in a bad way, the games are bad. I'm saying that they're rated really high Um, Do the same thing over and over and over again, release the same shit over and over and over again. People like it But they're still a fairly small entity compared to the competitors And so you kind of have to choose your lane. They're highly dependent on themselves And I find their lack of new IP to be distressing and weird I don't like it And it was one of the things I had a problem with the Nintendo literally twenty years ago. I had a problem with Nintendo doing that kind of shit And it was always exciting to get a new Zelda and a new Mario and this and that and the other thing, but like The lack of newness, I think will wear eventually and they are in a unique position where they deliver And they have a very tight blind people that know what they're doing I don't think most publishers and developers have that And thus, and I also don't think creatively fulfilling And aren't there other Nintendo fans out there that are also tired of the same old thing The games are differentiated from each other yeah, kind of, but also not really A three D Mario gam is a three D Mario game. I mean, some of them were more special than others. Galaxy, of course was very unique and special, Odyssey, a little bit more straightforward. The Zelda games are sometimes stylistic You you have Wind Waker and whatever, but they're dunge bed and you're getting heart pieces and you're finding weapons. It's it's not that different I think they just kind of get away with things that others wouldn't and I' even say it is an insulult It's just it's just an it's an obvious observation I think that's true, but I also do think they do they are a little bit I don' know Zelda and Mario and all of their big IP are so Game is The reality is that Sony would have a difficult time doing that because Sony's IP are so focused on narrative and inherently narrative focus on characters and inherently characters have arcs. And if they don't have arcs, it becomes ridiculous So like characters will have an arc and then they'll be done and then to do more with them is insane where it comes across as forstced Mario doesn't have an ark Hm You know, like Zelda doesn't have an arc. like You could make a case maybe that they have like mini ars or whatever, but like not really. like's It's always generally a reset. L no one knows what the fuck theZelda timeline is ike like how they feed into each other. And I think it's confusing by design. It gives them a level of freedom where they could just kind of reinvent the wheel every time and it's fine. Like Breath of the Wild is not Windwaker, is not Ocarina. like they are fundamentally different games, although they have they have a shared kind of I' even I't say skeleton, but necessarily they have a shared kind of They have a shared makeup, I guess, foundationally. Um Mario two also like there's two D Marios and three D Marios that are quite different from each other that there's that Mario three D land or whatever that's like kind of like this weird like hybrid of the two I u they're more experimental and I think that yields them a lot more goodwill because they do like, I don't know, man, like you look at Halo on the Xox side. It's like, oh, here's Halo onene again You know what I mean? Like or you look at God of warar and it's like God of Wars probably the closest analog that they have because it's been going on for a long time and they actually have reinvented it a great deal U over time They've reinvented it in such a way that like you really only have so much left on this Um God of work can't be turned into somethingomething like Breath of the Wild. in the same way. And so like, I don't know. there're I think you're right. They get away with a lot of crazy shit that makes no sense. The eighty dollars Mario c, the The insane what is it? the voice app on the phone that let you talk to each other over it. How was awesome. I loveved that. They'erri their' terrible net code for Super Smash Brothers, which is like their their premier multiplayer game basically. and it runs like absolute shit. runs like a game that's dude, the latency on Smash Bothers, u Bra No, no Bro Brow's we ltimate for the Sitch is insane evenven on like a wired connection. It's like this is a fucking unplayable And nobody plays that way. Everybody plays that game in person, right? because of that. And so They do get a lot of leeway, but I also just think their IP are just uniquely poised to continuously reinvent themselves. I think Mario'sue for reinvention. quite frankly, and I think they could do just about damn near anything with it and they could probably pull it off. Um, focus in Kazem Yeah, I I'm a little they did they like Metroid Pime is a reinvention of metroid U Right Mario sixty four, obviously a reinvention of Mario, O Green of Time, a reinvention in a way of Zelda Um, Yeah, I'm just tired. that's what I say. I think you and I both agree. It's like they're just unique. I don't think, I don't think they can really be replicated. I don't think they'd be replicated from a quality standpoint. I don't think theyd be replicated from a culture standpoint, but they're also just a very different They just aren' in as It's just important to remember they don't sell nearly as many games as PlayStation does becausecause PlayStation sells other people's games and that's where the money is So they don't sell as many games. Piod The first party sells insane. Ore their first partiesll sell copies of games that Sony would never even sniff right. but And but that's It's awesome for them. If they didn't do that, they they wouldn't have a business The point I've made is with Sony is like, you could theoretically imagine them stopping making first party games and they would just be fine Like that's that's the weird. That's the weird part. And I think Sony, I think you'd kind of want to be a Sony Maybe not. I mean, you want to own the IP And you want to own this iconic IP But I still say and you know this, Chris, I said this over and over again ad nausea Sonys superpower has always been when move on and they've been stymied by that because They becausecause they do need to extract more out of their IP. they do. It made sense to make a second ghost game. yes can' have a third one Not under not under this timeline Let's, let's not fucking get crazy with it It looks like it carried Anyway, five years years. Yeah, you're going get like, you're gonna get the third ghost game. een years after Gos Sima came out and something they' like, come on. Like that this is crazy. you got to move on. It's I know it's not your fault I get it I don't want I don't want them they're lingering too much and That's just the nature of the reality of making games today Anyway Arionyan and thank you foriting. That's what we have Chris. this episode of Sacred Smb,'s s time for us to go Any closing comments before we leave Um No, I've got I've got to get dressed and ready I gott to make a trek South Go to Anahheeim. Anahim Got to be do. You're going to drive You take it Uber. I think I think there's people who are going also So like I'm going to hitch a ride. Cool ahead That sounds good I'm already so tired Wellill God speed you fun You'll wake up, no doubt I'm going I'm going get in the pool Nice out float around I have a really hard time I'm like, it's like Pavlov's dog.ike I go in the pool I have to have a beer and smoke a jooy. I feel like I'm just not in it. so I'm going to go float around and It is a. It is part of it. Yeah, it's like I just I turn it on a little bit. when during in these brief summer months having a nice little time and then by ateugust, or, September it willll be over All right Chris,'ll be well, have a good weekend. Good to see you as always. We'll see you next time And thank you all there for your love kind and support. We appreciate you too. Patreon.ot com slash lastast day Media for early ad free access and lastast dayMedia. store for merch. Thank you again, as always, we'll see next time. until then, goodb bye Take care, guys. Sacred symols, a PlayStation podcast is a product and trademark of Last Stand Media and Collins Last Stand LLC, and is proudly recorded in the USA The show is conceived by, is written by and is directed by me, Colin Moriarti. My co hosts are Chris Reagon Maldonado and Dustin Fermman The show is produced by executive producer, Dustin Ferman. All of Last Stan's Thee music is by my best friend, Ramon Narviz. As you know, all of Last Stan's shows, including sacred syymbols, are fan funded on Patreon at patreon dot com slash lastastan media. The following names are at the producer level on Patreon, our highest tier, and we're grateful for your thoughtful and kind contributions to our independent endeavor Thank you Aron Becky, Aaron Temple, Adam Ree Friended, Albion, Alex Cabrera, Alex Gates, Alex Lapierre, Alex Monez, Alan Tinik, Alan Trembleli, Alan Niner, Anthony Akure, Anthony Vazquez, Anton K, Antonio C, Asach Perades, Austin Rilly, Betty Anne Moriarti, Bjorn Campbell, Blackjack, Boots, Brad Cooley, Brad Loman Brandon Runiger, Brian Williamson, Canon Bal Jones, Captain Verde, Carlos Algaret, Chad Lewis, Chris Galvin, Chris Morton, Chris Richie, Christopher Deavio, Christopher Moore, Christopher Morgan, Cody Bennon, Conrad Pennyfarthing, Corey Beacam, Dan Nolan, Dan Root, Daniel Dam Mre, Daryl E. Nayman, Dave Alvarez, Denis Uel, Denny Wever Don Lee, Donald Difford, Donald John Vaders, double duty Dirk, WTF. Eddie Smith, Electric MD, Ellis, Emmanuel Perez Enrique Perez, Ento Sas. 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