Treating Sunburns and Final Advice

Hey everybody. I hope you're u staying cool or staying indoors. If you're in anywhere near where I live, you got some pretty extreme temperatures. this week And you know, I was looking at an episode we did eleven years ago now, if you can believe that, all about sunburns. If you know my family's history with skin cancer, you know it's a really important topic to us. And I thought maybe, you know, a good time to revisit it and, you know, the summer just kicked off and S to keep in mind. So here is that episode. hope you enjoy it and hope you stay cool. Thanks Sawbones is a show about medical history. And nothing the hosts say should be taken as medical advice or opinion It's for fun Can't you just have fun for an hour and not try to diagnose your mystery boy We think you've earned it Just sit back, relax and enjoy a moment of distraction from Weird growth You're worth Welcome to Sawbones, a Marital tour of Misguided Medicine. I'm your co host Justin Mclrooy. And I'm Sydney Mcroll. Syidney what's wrong? I'm just I mean, I don't know. I don't want to talk about it. I don' to I don't want to hurt. Go on Go on and say it. Everybody else on the internet said it, you as well say it too. You know, last week's episode It was, I mean, it seemed to be really popular Yeah. L a lot of people really liked it and said really nice things. And I'm not saying that they don't say that about our show when you're on it. Well, in fiction, I was on it, to be fair. I was just in the body of a fourteen year old girl. Right, sure.. That was the case. I'm just saying that when it's you in your own body with your own voice, people aren't necessarily as I mean they don't like it. They're not as like enthusiastic about our show. I'm gonna be honest, especially for thear of the show, and we're like married and we should be supportive of stuff, that was a pretty sick burnnt There's there's a lot of burning going on Well, you know what could have helped you with that burn What, Sydney? If you would have worn sunscreen, Wow Wow. That's like a double burn on I guess, is it on both of us, I guess. If you're asking medically if that was a double burn, that's not a thing. There' second degree burns but there's not a double burn. No, there's not a double burn. Okay. suunscreen. fine Sydney, I've got a double burn. Okay, this okay, fine. intro over. We're talking about sunburns I'm sorry I't mean to hurt your feeling. It's all right. It's a really good posy start to the show. I'm really into it I am glad that you're back. I did ment you And I love you And our child is glad you're back and even Riley is glad you're back.. I little U So thanks to the people who suggested this topic and here it is, no more need to denigrate Justin. Well, I'll tell I'll tell you who the people are who suggested this episode. Let's let's not just thank them in general. let's name them All right. Thank you. I'm not going to help you. I'm not going to. You're going to help at all Thank you to Jackson and Tina and Anthony and Nicholas for suggesting some variety of this topic that I included you all because you suggested either sun burns or sunscreen or sun tanning and we're just gonna to talk about it all because It's summer. Sertime. Yes sumertime Which is great except for in the summer everybody forgets that they haven't been outside all year long. Right. You're so happy to get out there and get that D And the first thing they do is go outside and hang out in the sun all day and get sunburnt. and that's a big problem. So I think we should talk about it Sounds good,ude, hit me Okay, so it's been known for a while that there is a link between skin damage and sun exposure. We didn't really understand it. We just knew that, you know, if you're out in the sun and the heat for a long time, sometimes it hurt You know Y skin hurt. Got it. It got red and it would peel off. and But we thought it had something to do with the heat mainly Yeah, it makes sense. Y skin feels hot afterwards. so exactly That adds up. That tracks for me. Exactly. And we didn't really understand anything else about the sun other than that it was bright and there was heat and then of course, like we liked the sun because a lot of cultures, ancient cultures especially would worship the sun. Right. you know, and we didn't understand anything about like UV rays or anything. That wasn't until like the eighteen hundreds when we figured out like ultraviolet light and the spectrum of light and like that there are things like rays from the sun that hurt us that have nothing to do with like the heat itself How How did sort of ancient cultures sort of adapt to this Interesting because as you kind of go through history peopleeople would come up with ways to protect themselves from the sun to varying degrees kind of based on what a lot of it was based on what was considered beautiful. So for a for a long time Pale skin was kind of the ideal. You wouldn't want to look like you spend a lot of time outside U And a lot of that had to do with just the connotation that if you if you did have a tan or if you were certainly if you were burnt and you spent a lot of time outside, then you were a laborer Okay. And so the upper classes would be inside and so they wouldn't have hands. Soft hands. Soft hands makes it for a cool guy Or? Soft hands makes for a cool guy. Or lady, as they say. Where whoo says that? old saying from the olden times I have never heard that. Inier Well, it's translated loosely from hieroglyphs. so hieroglyphics. So you're a cool guy. Did you make that up? I have rough hands. I've been building a swing set. All day for Charlie. So I have rough labour's hands. Justin has developed rough laborer's hands in one day from building a Syidney, how was I handled in Egypt? Since they felt that pale skin was the ideal, they would try to protect theirself from the sun knowing that it did, I mean, they recognized there was a color change in their skin after being out in the sun. So they would lighten their skin with like myrh and frankincense and actually even dye it sometimes with like a yellow ochre that you would rub into your skin and would make it appear paler U they also use a kind of ancient sunscreen. which was made of jasmine and rice And there was actually in the rice brand, there is a chemical that absorbs UV light and can help restore damaged DNA. So there actually was some likeagic to it. Dry out your cell phone, make delicious treats when added toasted and added to marsmallow can't rice do Rice is the closest we have to a cure all. If you are phone or you are sk or you are hungry. No. But also if you're not, if you're trying to limit your carbohydrates, don't No don't then so then bad then not rice Um in Greece, they also attempted to kind of protect themselves from the sun. spepecifically, you know we I always I always picture like The ancient Olympics And there' all these, I mean, they were men. there was men. I wouldd say men just because only men were allowed to participate. And they were all like doing their athletics and they were naked. Like, you know that right? I'm notaking R not. Yeah. like they did their naked Olympics. and they were all oiled up That's like true. They would rub olive oil all over themselves for the sun damage. Yes to protect themselves from the sun. Does that work No. Oh, no. I mean somewhat but It's probably better than nothing. and at the very least you'll end up delicious. Yes, betteret than nothing and your skin would be great. I like the, you know, moisturizing and good for your skin. But all in all, is that like your ideal sunscreen? Is that why you want to use today? No. It does give us the image of all these like hunky Greek Dudes. Yeah oiled up. I'm re to move home and throw, throwing discuses D guy Throwing dis guy U The Native Americans also had their own version of suunscreen You well, actually, their own version of treating a sunburn, you could mix hemlock with deer fat and that would help your sunburn if it was too late if you already had one. You could also try plantains just to eat them or Well, no, I like mash them up and put it on your skin. Topical plant. Tical plantains. Although On that note, you should try plantains. If Yeah I mean, if you have it, they're deive. They're really yummy. Yeah. This and many other food recommendations right here on Saba a medical history. I'm just saying plantains are delicious. They are. They're not like bananas though, don't be confused. Don't just eat one. Don't just eat one and think it's gonna be bananaas becausecause it's not. I mean, you'll know right away they're much harder to peel. so sure, you know, if it's a bana and you're having a hard time peeling it's probably a plantain. Shall we talk about how to fix plantains Or maybe move on to like the thing you wanted to Either way, I'm like good. Okay. well I just I really like plantains. Yeah, I mean, do you have plantain chips? Frim up. Who boy. Mash plantains I could go on like the buub a Gump of pllantains if you'd like, or we could move on to the next like thing. For a long time, like I said, avoiding a tan was important because you, then you were showing off that you didn't have to labor on the sun. and specifically women were supposed to be you know fair skinned as a mark of beauty For instance, you Europe during the Middle Ages, women would cover themselves up, you know, like wimples that like women would wear like over their heads. Okay like the little like cloths in their head. Like nuns wear. Got it. Except that you you know, like old olden times ladies would wear over their heads and protect you from the sun so that you could kind of stay pale which was associated with more money. In Japan, they would actually use like some white powders to even lighten their skin. I know this isn't really sun, but just kind of the idea that Pale skin was somewhat beautiful. they would use these powders to lighten their skin, whichich is not a good idea. Don't use letter mercury based. G outowders on your skin In China, it was even like a recommendation, like ancient beauty recommendation that you should wear like clothing because it would highlight Your skin like it would make it look paler. Oh Do doesnn't work Which a fashion question, I guess. Yeah I don't know well I guess, contrast Yeah sure. Yeah, high contrast to provide a contrast. Um So anyway, Fair was in. and I only mention this just because I think that as we're moving forward, you're going agree with me that that's not necessarily still the trend. But we spent it vast lights. I feel like Ple has its moments sometimes I'm going to make a case for that. Okay. ye Um And then and then so fairkin is in, it's the beauty ideal. Everybody's trying to protect themselves. We don't really know how. except for as we move forward, we start to see like the use of sunlight to treat things. So the idea that maybe sunlight is good for you starts to become commonplace So the best example being tuberculosis. We talked a lot we did a whole show on tuberculosis. And if you remember because we had no idea what to do for it, we would like set TB patients out in the sun. They just sit here in the sun. Dry them out This is probably good for you. Well. there was like the dry climate thing, but just like sun in general, we thought. And I mean, I guess that's nice like if we're not going to cure your TV You can at least spend some time in the sun. P toast out there. Well, there was, that was another that you mentioned vitamin D, but that was something else. We started to discover was a link between sunlight and vitamin D and lack of vitamin D and rickets. And so then we started thinking like, well maybe the sun isn't all that bad. Maybe it's not this negative thing that hurts your s. ra all these years. Right But the beauty thing still held a lot of people back from spending time out in the sun because you know, if you wanted to look fancy You were pale, R. until after the Industrial Revolution. What happened this? Well, that's when people started, that was when leisure time was invented. Before that everybody worked. and then we invented leisure Well, that's really true. There really were like, I mean, yeah, there were a lot of human history. I mean, think about it. L for most of human history we've been just trying to survive, man. Yeah. L hunt and gather stay alive so that future generations could admit leisure. Exactly. So after the Industrial Revolution, there could be really rich people who would say like I have all this time on my hands and I don't have work to do. What should I do? And somebody was like, I don't know be leisurely. I appreciate the gesture past generations, I really do. I know I give you guys a hard time, but I really enjoy leisure now. so thank you for that. Thank you for inventing leisure time. Thank you for inventing leisure And where do you go for leisure time? but the beach. Okay Right? Or somewhere. dont know they had to figure out inside somewhere. Leisure time was still in its prototype phase. They tried a lot of things, maybe. they went to forest, they went to caves. Nothing. And somebody Are you enjoying yourself? I'm not. This does not feel leisureally to me. No, I was just thinking the same thing. We should try the beach. So what they did they used corona commercials as references and said, those people look. quite leisurely. This time traveling Corona add I found in a space bottle from that traveled through time and washed up on the beach. Has people why are with Okay, so we're at the beach for no reason. A time traveling bottle rolls up with a corona ad in it from the future. And we're like, this is right. We should be here. I already like it here. I'm like, yeah, me too. You know what? I just inv been in bit of decrease Look like that. It is simultaneous And also hopefully Corona. Yeah. but that didn't come around until later. No, no, no, no, no Dfinitely not using a lime in it. No, absolutely not. So all these people started spending time at places like the beach and the lake. and I think humans are drawn to water when they want to relax or just whenever And so they started like chilling outside more. and started to become a thing like, well, you know if you're rich, you've got time to hang out at the water, so maybe start to get a tan But what really accccording to I have read And I find this hard to believe. a lot of people link it to Cco Chanel one incident, which this sounds apocryphal to me, but maybe it's true that Supposedly Coco Chanel was yating as you do when you're cooking off the south of France As you do As you do. And she was laying out on her yacht and she fell asleep. Unsafe yacht operation for anybody' curious how to how to yacht. That is that is a bad start. I'm going to assume someone else was Steering Yes, I y I don't Coco Chanel has her own yacht guy. I would hope she did. I would hope. would I would assume it's Coco Chanel U so she's she's laying on her yacht, she falls asleep. She wakes up And it's just a sun kissed beauty instantly Now why she's not burnt and why she's Tan in this story. I don't know, but but the story goes that she she came back to the coast and walked off the yacht and instantaneously tanning became popular. over here click, click, click poparazzi. And she was just like, this is intentional. I'm assuming cheheck out this. a flash pointint perhaps or a tipping point for tanning rather than just like her changing the whole game in one fell I don't know Maybe so. posossible So at that point, Tanning really started to become a mark of wealth first of all, because you had time to be leisurely and also then beauty, especially from Coco Chanel and then you know, you have to imagine that like fashion would follow that like to show off more skin, you know, so that you could, you know, you didn't have to hide your skin and keep it untouched by the sun, you could you could show off your tan. Um Now that didn't completely stop us from trying to protect ourselves. We were still trying to figure out why being out in the sun for a long time hurts us U And that was when as far back as nineteen eighteen, that's when we first linked sun exposure with cancer and specifically like you, you know, there were UV rays coming from the sun that could cause cellular damage. So we've known this for a really long time And as a result, people started trying to make real sunscreen And so what did what are they making out of Justin, I'm going tell you all about sunscreen, but before I do, why don't you come with me down to the billing department? Let's go. The medicines, The medicines that escalate my God b the mouth You know, Sid, Our cats are really special to you I like and you And I like to feel special to you too. And the way I do that is by taking care of our cats the best way I know how. And the best way I know how is with smalls. You know, we started with smalls because they were a sponsor, but we have stayed with smalls because our cats will accept nothing else. They love smalls. They love the smooth bird, but the ground cow there is there. Ground cow. and then the one that's like got fish and bird That one, but ground cow is by far top. 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Find it at maximumfun dot org Okay, so people started making sunscreen, saidid, what what did that look like So first, so we go all the way back to eighteen seventy eight. There's a sunscreen that was made. It's got this auto Val of Australia proposed it and it had tannin in it, which was a substance that would stain your skin a yellowish brown. color if you applied it So It may have worked somewhat. S But but but now you have to pay for that in a spray form, right That's true, that maybe in a sense, Otto invented the first spray tan and didn't realize it. That wow, he should have trademarked that. He'd be rich. Although I don't know a yellowish brown color I'm not sure exactly what color you're going to end up looking. Yeah Yeah. You may just look jaundiced. Not great. So what other options do I have available to me? first The first sunscreen that was commercially produced was by Milton Blake in Australia in the nineteen twenties And that was and that was the big seller for a long time. And a lot of these early sunscreens did work A lot of them were actually based on the idea that you could reflect the sun ray. So they a sun block is probably what you would have called them. We kind of use the terms interchangeably, but what you're really talking about with any kind of sun protectant. so to speak, is are you absorbing like are you absorbing sun's rays with the thing or are you reflecting the sun's rays? So when you're talking about like the like the zinc oxide kind of stuff that people, you know, that people put on their nose, you know what I'm talking about? And like a really strong white Yes. You're talking about like reflecting the sun's rays. Newer sunscreens, most of them kind of absorb the sun's rays is how they block The sun. So when we're talking about the older stuff, it's mainly reflector kind of things. So you probably would have seen them on people So they weren't as popular. You know And hard to coat yourself with. Not a great beast look In in nineteen forty six a Swiss inventor Franz Geiter made glacier cream Which sounded very fancy. and was supposed to be better, but actually had an SPF today we would know of about two. Okay, not great. No, is great, friend. This was before SPFs. so he didn't know that. No. T his credit. Yeah And in his defense, since he was unaware of them, it was very early in the process, that's like too better than none. He would probably say, it's two hundred percent more effective than the leading remedy, which is nothing Um Now during World War twoI, Benjamin Green made a new substance that you could use to protect your skin from the sun. He used a red veterinary petroleum jelly or what was called Rd vet pets. That did indeed create a barrier to the sun. It was effective as a sunscreen, but you were red. Oh, well, that's not aad ideal. No. no, most people That's what you're trying to avoid It was very practical for you, you know, like in a wartime setting, like if you're out in the sun. I wouldn't have thought much skin was exposed, Maybe their faces, you know. you got downtown Yeahet leisure time. Lure. We've invented leisure time by now So. So you so you're outside and you don't want your face to get burnt. so I guess like Pting something that was completely red all over your face. Petroleum jelly too, was okay U, But later on he kind of, he kind of adjusted the formula. He added some cocoa butter. Everybody loves cocoa butter. He added some coconut oil because that smells wonderful. And lo and behold per Tone Oh, is that so that's a reference to the original Yeah way it dyed your skin, huh? Absolutely. Interesting. I had no idea. Yeah. And obviously, copper tone eventually no longer turned you red which made it a much more popular In case the copper tone folks were listening. not saying that's still feature for your product. No, it does not make you red. As far as I know, I don't think I use copperone They have some kids sunscreens now that actually change your skin like blue a bit just so you can tell where it's all been applied. and then as it dries, it turn clear. I was gonna say that could be terrifying if they're swimming. Oh yeah, that would be horrific. If you turn around and your kids like don't swimming around and they're blute like I'd freak out. I't even think about that. That's terrifying. No. So but it turns back to like normal. Yeah again see wors make sure you got it everywhere Dryes clear. Okay Well, that's a pretty good idea. Yeah ye U So with all this new sunscreen though, you would think that people were like, well, now that they're making sunscreen, I should probably use it. But that wasn't necessarily, not everybody felt the need to protect themselves against the sun. There was still this idea that had kind of permeated society that you needed some kind of healthy glow that it was not only beautiful to look like you'd spend a lot of time out in the sun, but that it was actually a mark that you were in better health than people who were pale Uh this guy W worse, I guess that's the word I'm gonna use for this. This's got worse upp until the sixties. And this is really where you see kind of the height of this idea that tanning is the ideal There are way more products out in the sixties to make you tan more than to make you tan less. So if you go, I mean it would have especially like, you know teenagers at the time or young people probably were not going and buying sunscreen. They were going and buying, you know Um, tanning lotions that would make their shin more susceptible. Yes, absolutely. And I remember these from back in the day, things that I remember they had something called like a tingle factor And when you put them on, like they would they'd kind of burn, they'd kind of tinkle And then you would be in the sun and that was bad But I remember that these things existed. Yeah, that sounds It seems and that's not that long. I'm not that old. It's not that long. But you know what I can remember actual sunscreen stinging too when I was a little kid. it used to sting Maybe I'm just thinking about like being in my eyes and stuff Yeah, I I think that's what you're Did't get outdoors fun. Maybe it was just being outside. It's a size. I need to get back inside. So this along this trend by the seventies, we see the invention of the tanning bed Gross. Yes U But but on the other hand in the seventies and maybe in reaction to this, we also see SPF become a thing So the idea that we can start rating sunscreens and the FDA gets involved to start regulating sunscreens and the sun protectant factors. so you can actually figure out like, is this product that I'm buying that might be turning me a color, yellow or red or whatever the sunscreen is. is it actually protecting me from the sun? Which, I mean, I guess you find out sooner or later. It doesn't take much, much work to figure that out. But you'd prefer to find it out before you go outside in the sun and get burnt rather than after. So then we see like the FDA starts regulating these and you start getting numbers and like, okay, this one's better than this one and that kind of thing And you can't make like outrageous claims Right Um, By the eighties, we figured out that there are problems from both UVA and UVB rays. So you know that both kinds of rays from the sun are dangerous and and can cause skin damage and cancer. And as a result, as we move into the nineties and two thousands, you see more and more types of sunscreen, you see broader spectrum, ones that cover both types of rays Um They're more popular and then you see like spray, sunscreens and things that are water resistant If it says waterproof, that does not mean you can swim all day and not reapply. Got it um And then of course, you know, sunscreen really took off with that whole Baz Lermman thing in nineteen ninety. Sure, that lit the fire That was the anti coco Chanel. There are probably young people who are listening who don't know what we're talking about. Just google it. Baz Lermman made a thing out of somebody else's thing that a lot of people thought was written by Kurt Vongheke wasn't Is it just called Wear suunscreen, I think? You're free to wear sunscre. wear everybody's free. Ebody' free to wear suns. That's what it was called. it's called. Yeah And it gives you like life advice. Yeah, go check it out. and also I have no idea if it will be culturally resonial. I don't know if it will either. I have no clue, but I don't know. in the late nineties we were into it. It was. It was considered very cool then. and either way, it tells you to wear sunscreen, so go for it. Go G nuts And of course, by now we see that like self tanning is a popular alternative like spray tanning or, you know, like the things you can massage in like mousses and stuff to just make you look tann, but not actually B Tan And also, pale skin is coming back I actually don't know if that's true. I just declared it. All right, there you go. Folks, you heard it here first. Sinddney McRrooy, the cocoanill of her day, has declared that pale skkin is back That's right. I I as I do every year, the first warm day of the season, I emerge from my house. It's not the south of France and I'm not on a yacht but I do emerge My garage and I am wearing a t shirt and shorts and the reflection of the sun off my pale pale skin blinds my neighbors and they say, o my gosh, who is that pale beauty? She's back. I can't see, but Oh, I love that look. Let me get a tumb post to open. I went real quick. I went to blind my neighbors too How do I do that? And I'm like, it's easy just don't go outside. Sid, how much SPF do I need You know, it's funny. You'll read a lot about this. This is a big like conspiracy theory online, but this is actually fairly true SPF really maxs this out around forty five or fifty. The sun protective factor, it's really not like if you go over that, if something says that it's more than that, It's really not. it's forty five or fifty. But honestly, a lot of dermatologists will tell you thirty is fine. that's plenty. because if you look at the numbers, like fifteen blocks out like And I don't have these percentages I'm doing this for memory. So it's close to this, Ab ninety six percent of the suns rays. And then if you go up to like thirty, it's like ninety seven percent. And then if you get up to like forty fivecent fifty, it's like ninety eight percent. So any sunscreen is better than is way, way, way way better than none. Exactly, exactly. I would say that if you really want to make sure thirty is fine to go with If you're paying more for stuff that says it's like sixty or eighty that I would not pay more for that kind of thing. But it's not it's not directly related. It's not like thirtyies twice as strong as fifteen. I think that's interesting today. And it's a measure it's actually the way they derive those numbers, it's a measure of the time it would take for your skin to burn without sunscreen relative to with this sunscreen and then somehow they get a number out of that, but but thirty at le thirty is what I would go for. I would go for thirty. There are all kinds of weird treatments for sunburns. let's say you didn't take my advice and you did get a sunburn. If you check the internet You will find that people put everything. whatever they got handy. You just reach for the first open container and put it on yourself. That's absolutely true. I was reading these and I found these are some of the recommendations I found. So if you have a sunburn, here's what you should do. You should put some lettuce on it and some cucumbers on it and some tomatoes on it and some vinegar on it And I think we just made a salad. Yeah O on you. skipp the milldman, put some tziki sauce in there. Good to go Um You could also try, I mean, really you'll find anything smashed up strawberries coconut oil. onene thing I read said that you should cut potatoes in half and rub raw potatoes all over your skin. It would be awfully time consuming. Fat free milk, that was specifically mentioned, not just milk. N just milk. fat free milk. Fat free milk. Eat a bunch sunflower seeds because they contain a lot of vitamin E and vitamin E is good for your skin Eat yogurt, use tea bags on your skin, baking soda As far as do these things work, Hm I don't know. I mean, I figure it this way. If you really want to smear yourself with like yogurt or strawberries or tomatoes or whatever I mean, fine, go for it. Why not There are a lot of these things that have like certain anti inflammatory kind of properties that might take some of the sting out So I can see it like a lot of people will say that about vinegar that it'll take some of the sting out of the sunburn and it may. It's not going to cure it. It's going to go away. So if you don't feel like rubbing yourself with like boiled lettuce water.