Making the First Move

Oh hello, it's Harriet and I've just come on to let you know that I'm on tour. Later in the year I'm bringing my show Fuie to you fluszing about the UK. Lots of new shows have been added, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Manchester, Birmingham, London, New Date there and we've added Winchester Froom got in trouble for pronouncing that wrong. Froom, Taunton, Leeds, Milton Cunes, Leicester, Margate, Farnham, and let's not forget, Colchester. You can get tickets at harrietkeemesley dot com and I'd love to see you there I'm very glad to. And I'm Hriette Kemesley. We're both single and in our thirties and we've found ourselves back on the dating scene Landscape has changed. We want to settle down. but we're back out there. We're desperately trying to figure out what the hell we should be doing. So we're going to speak to experts, chat about dates we've been on if we manage to get any and share your tips and horror stories. So we all feel less alone. We might even get our exs on. Yeah, we'll see about that This is Single ladies in your area Hello b. How are you doing? Good, thank you. You look very cozy. Is this cardigan from journey Never fully dressed, never fully dressed. It's very cowboy y. Cowboy I was just thinking because I' got I've got a cowboy cardig again, which I nearly wore we would have watchatched again. Oh it's a dark blue. It's so funny, we're always matching. It's cute. It's cute, even if we say it ourselves. And noobbody elseone else is saying it. if it's just saying that Thank you be cute. How are you doing? You're good? I didn't get the best sleep. Mabel has a cough and the dog has a cone on his head and I slept in between them And it wast a conn. a cff and a conn It was a rock and a hard place. It's like a modern version of a rock. I'm just stuck between a coff and a kern, if you know what I mean It was not a relaxing Oh I sa I mean, it's very cute. It's too, very cute, very loud, very very in the C cone's case, very uncomfortable. S suddenly lets get really close and he's going to just snuggle in the She just hit me in the face. God, Mabel's coughing in coughing. this is going into my face. then she goes straight back to sleep, whereas I'm like, o God, and I'm just to awake for an hour and then I finally get off again. and then she coughs again. But yeah, it's I mean, all is good. All' good is good. Will you get a good night' sleep tonight, do you think? I doubt. I doubt it, but I might take the cone off. The cone has been on for a week and he's stopp looking his foot He's walking on four feet rather than three, which I believe is better. So I think we can take the cone off. So that's a big step. That's a really big step in the household. That's good. That's really nice. I'm good, thank you I had a pretty good sleep, I'm afraid to say I wish I wish I didn't. I wish I No I wish you didn. No I feel bad about it. Although I wish I got to sleep later than expected because I've started re watchatching House You know, with you Laurie. Yeah. Yeah. and I'm unlike the last season And I don't think I've got this far before. I think I've re watchatched the first few seasons like times But now I was drifting off and I was like Oh I've not seen this bit. sleep for a couple of hours, but that was all my own doing. You're crazy. I'm crazy, yo I was in bed last night with a guy. Cn't get any sleep guy house. Yeah, I was like, whereere's this going? House MD. Oh yeah, because technically the TV is in your bed Yeah famamously he's in my bed I'm in bed with House MD. every single night And yeah, my housemate Jordan laugh in the morning and you'll be like, yeah, I was going to bed lit last night can just hear the house beenune flaring out of your bed. I'm like I love house. But we've got an incredible guest on, the one and only Callie Beaton. We do. I've known her for years as a stand up, very funny stand. Yeah And I' been on her podcast and now she's written a bly book. Oh my god, is there anything this woman can't do? She can do it all? She can literally do it all I think she's incredible. Yeah, I agreed. Let's I think we should try and learn from her. We must at some point learn. Oh my must You what this year actually. I've had to do some stuff recently where I've had to learn stuff A learner. A too. I can't learn. I can't if someone gives me instructions, they're not going in. I don't know where they're going. they're not going in. And then I'd go away and and then like, okay,'s the work on what we talked about. and I'm like I don't know what we talked about and so what am I meant to do now? and I don't know how to learn at home on my own? And I'm just not a learner. and it's got to a point I couldn't do it at school and then you have a long period where you don't learn. Yeah. now the doing these things where I have to learn I'm like, you got the wrong gal I'm sorry this is a case of mistaken identity. we want to learn it. Y. Learning's hard. Learning is hard. Learning's really hard. I think I can learn from Kelly. I think we should definitely try. Let's really try because I think she has a lot to give. Yeah. And not only do we have Kellie Beaton Calibbeatons's dog Jeff in the studios if you hear any sort of in bones beenin chewed. I'm sorry that was me. It's Harriet. But if you hear any tailswagon it will be J. If you hear any lapping of water again me and I that's Harriet, That one will be Harriet. Thursday boy. That's what I'm going call you from now on the Thirsty boy Oh, Thirsty boy is it We do drink an unbelievable amount of liquid. ? Anyway? Whats his little fact not aloner and I love a drink It's a match Oh hello. It's so nice to see you, Kallie. It nice to see you. I feel like we don't often get to be in a room together and we have not. I think we've only ever been in a tent together. did We did. It was one of the worst gigs of my life and I feel so ashamed that you witnessed that. D you know where was it? it was a festival. All I'll say is that somebody who shall remain nameless who was not you? I was MCing the comedy tent and you were on. Somebody very famous was so horrible to me that day that all I was doing was trying to think, whyy am I in this world? I was not noticing if you had a bad gig. I just thought you were the most wonderful. That's so my takeout. you can go around thinking something. Oh my takeout is that you're just amazing Well, thank you. That's what I took from that comedy tent. Well, I took the same from you and I was like, o, I'm really embarrassed that this cool woman has seen me not do well. I didn't see you not do well. Well, I should' have said it. I should I't know why mean. I probably didn't see you because I couldn't see through the tears. So I was literally backstage really upset and thinking Would it be bad for him to get the golf buggy back to the carpark and not finish the gig? Yeah, somebody really horrible like in my top in my top three horrible experiences. Oh my go. So you were the least of the. Okay, well that makes me better myself at worse. On your behalf. Yeah so. So if that's been burning a hole in your soul. It really hard. Let that one out into the's gone now That needs to be gone. Yeah. So you must have been thinking that I was thinking, how's she doing so well? Wh is that person? Who burnted through her I was meant to do half an hour. And do you know when you're at this stage in your career where you've got like a solid twenty, maybe twenty two. and I ally kit out with a bit of crowd work and all this And I was like meant to do half an hour And I'd finished everything I had planned to say The crowd work went terribly. Nobody would speak to me. And then I looked at my watch and I was like, We've done twelve minutes. Wes I mean that when no one is laughing it really crunches down the words. Yeah don you don't have the brakes for laughter so things quickly, but there's no laughter. you're panic you're talking quicker.. And I remember some really good advice. I can't remember who gave it to me, but somebody said when it's going badly So write down and talk to the crowd, which are the two things you don't want to do Yeah. But anyway, it was good of you to stay on there long enough that I'd stop crying and could go on else I hate this. there are so you thought you had a bad day. Bea I rememered the thing that I took away from that gig was, well, if it's not her, I can say it was Angela Barnes Yeah And I was just like, I had the xt time with these women, they are so cool and funny and you doing an old gender. An gender j have it. I believe that' three gender women on a lineup. That that's never happened before ever the big people go on, J how this happened. about me because I was like, we've just seen her. I've seen brilliantly. Why is' she coming on and now? T the crowding a shit work? No, I think it's really funny, isn't it? what we remember and the things that we think that we did badly. And yeah so no, that's not my memory. Oh well, yeah, that's good to know. How's the therapy session feeling? Yeah good. actually, I'm feeling better about myself. I'm dealing with so fast things I've been thinking about myself and I'm thinking you're thinking about yourself much It is about you too. It is your show. That's okay. Yeah. We want talk about you. Yeah. if our listeners haven't come across you yet or before, give us a little insight into all the strands of your bur Wellow, so I f the strands of my bones Yeah. so I got into I got into comedy. I did my first gig when I was forty five and until then I had worked in tele behind the cameras. So I'd worked for you know ITV, comedy central, lots of the different. You were very successful in the TV world before you. Well, I did oK in the TV world. I mean I think I don't know if it's successful I ask if you stick around long enough for people success. It's like I've been doing it for thirty years You feel like you've achieved so much. I've just just so long. So yeah, I did so yeah, I got into working in Tellian film even while I was still at Uni and so I did do it for a very long time So I worked in that sort of side of things. So I'd worked with lots of amazing people. And I got into stand upp when I was forty five, ditched the day job, the year I turned fifty, to go full time as a writer, performer, comedian, and all the rest of it. And then as of last year, and it still feels really funny to think not only did I manage to write a book but that it became a Bsell So yes, I wrote a book which got published last year in hardback, It's about to come out in Paperback and it became an instant Sunday Times bestse seller. And I honestly thought it was a prank call. What I called was called by my editor. I was with my daughter and we were driving and we were on a speaker phone. I said, no donoubt muck about that, Lindsey. T, honestly. She also said she went, And should didn't you know right now, as off this minute, It's the number one self help book in the country And I said, have I written aself up What did you think it was? I thought I don'tready know? She goes, yeah, absolutely. wouldould among other things be considered self help? I was like, Oh, well, that's even ner I chopped the charts s a chart I wasn't playing in. So yeah, so I got the surprise of finding out I'd written a self help book, whichich I guess it kind of was, but I don't say best. And so yeah, so I guess so I've gone from sort of TV execs comedian, I do lots of corporate speeches and hosting and stuff and more lately have got into writing and in particular writing long form, and I'm writing another book at the moment. so I've sort of morphed in a few different ways since the old peri menopause and menopause here, just when we're meant to go invisible and I'm just not obliging. I love that. I think it's so inspiring for people just not to think they once they're on a path, they have to stick to that path. Like it's a really scary thing for people to do something, especially as like out there is stand up. Yeah. Yeah. Well I think it's also, do you know what it is? I think We spend so long thinking, oh, I don't know I'm doing I'm going to be found out and I'm the only one who feels like that. So I better really like keep my head down and try and do my absolute best to please everyone and be what everyone wants me to be. And as a fifty seven year old woman, I would just like to say to anyone, either younger or older than me that no one knows what they're doing. Everyone thinks they're going be found out We spent so long thinking if only I'd just done that thing, I thought I was going to be that, but I didn't do it and now I'm this. And I'd spent years watching all the people I worked with on screen, on stage. I was on stage a lot as a businessy person, so I was used to holding a mic. But I had no I would just look at people and think, oh, you know, I went to drama school. I thought I might do that. And I guess that ship has sailed And it never has, you know, and people say to me now, they're like, Ohh it's great. you've done all these reinventions, but it's not finished. I'm fifty seven and I will keep. reinventing and keep working and keep doing new things. My dad's eighty two and he's reinvented and he still works as a musician. And w you know, And I think we There's enough in the way of women in the world without us getting in our own way. So my book is a kind of it's a manual to get out of the our way. God say get you out your own way. There's another ceue in front. Exactly, Don't put up the red light for yourself. you know, the traffic light, not the red light. So yeah, I think it's, I don't know, whether you get more wise as you get older, you certainly have less fs to give as you get older And I kind of wish I'd had a bit more of that vibe when I was younger You know, I mean, not that we should be going around saying exactly what we're really thinking to everyone. but I feel like if anybody's sitting there thinking, it's too late or I can't do this because I'm this or Just a question, is that an impossibility because of the way the world is? or are we willingly saying that's impossible? That's what I would question Oh God, it's fantastic, isn't it? Are you ready to go try some new stuff? Yeah get out this podcast? Y. please. How about that. Okay we way. It'll be fashion does? Oh my God. God. G gott to get in there and sniff them A you already sort of considered stand upp before? How did that because that's such a reinvention, right? I know like you say, you were holding the mic and stuff and it's a crazy thing for anyone to do. I think it must have been somewhere in me. I found Viv Groscop's book started at the same time as Viv. Yeah. And what was the name of her book? I laughed, I cried, I think. And it was about her charting her first hundred gigs. So I had that in my bookshelf in my study at home. So something must have drawn me to that. And I hadn't started reading it though, but something had made me buy it or someone maybe gave it to me So some seed must have been sown that there was a possibility that this was going to be the case. And also I used to do a lot of talking like I would often be the one wheeled out on stage or if they were likeight of Bloomberg TV were in Cann and we were down there, I would be the one to do the stuff, the interview on screen. So I was kind of I never was media trained, but I was media trained because I did a lot of stuff in media. So I think I was quite comfortable and I found being on stage quite fun and giving interviews quite fun. and it must have been somewhere in me. And I did think originally I was going to be an actor. and I went to gooldsmith and I studied drama. and I realized I couldn't act. So there was just a small problem. I was like, o, I'm actually shiting. I was kind of good when I looked up in Dorset, there was no one there. There was like one other boy could act a bit. Yeah. and he was my boyfriend. So we were like the two who could act. So I think we were like, yeah, you know, yes, we've got to be great actors. Th then I got to London and I was like, Oh. But there's an instinct in there somewhere. It's just not quite the right thing. And I think that's what people often have. they're like, oh, I think this is my thing. It doesn't work out. And it's like, no, there'll be something else around this that is your perfect thing if you just kind of tryry a few more things. Yeah, mayaybe it's your perfect thing or maybe it's the time. I mean, it's certainly I couldn't have done stand upp. I wasn't really even a good public speaker when I was young, it took me it was when I got my first board level position. I ran a TV production company that got acquired by ITV when I was thirty two. So I became the youngest and only female member of the ITV board, which was very male in those days. It was all Exitonians white pale maail stale full on. And and then they would do all these big sort of corporate presentations. and I remember they said They were like, there were about two thousand employees at the time. and they said, Oh we're doing our annual or biannual, whatever it was reporting thing. And it's going to be at the Odeian Marble Arch. Alista Stewart is hosting it and you need to just do twenty minute business update. And I was like, I'm sorry. Nobody trained, looking back at it. Nobody said, do you know how to do one? Would you like help And I remember thinking, well, this is when I have to resign because I can't actually do that. And I took myself off a wee I took a week off work and bear in mind at the time I had very young children, so very full on life. I took a week's holiday and paid to go on a public speaking course' my own dollar Fan one, didnn't say that's what I was doing. spent that week in bootcamp with what it turned out was this I wish I remember who it was, but this incredible woman and the other person who wentent to me on the course didn't show up. So we had one on one bootcamp. Oh my go. ye. One on one bootcamp. And I remember like going in with all these preconceptions and then she just worked with me for a week And it wasn't like in the movie version, I'd have then got up on stage at the age and it would have been amazing. I don't think it was amazing, but it wasn't bad enough to get me fired. and I did it. And then I gradually became good at it. So I guess all I would say is that was obviously twenty five years ago, anyone going, I couldn't stand on a stage, I couldn't do this. I couldn't either. And now I do it for a living both with stand upp and corporate stuff, and I really like it. It's my happiest time of the day So when I say if I can do it, anyone can do it, I'm not mckking about because it was yeah, it was not a nat it wasn't like I was as I've established at Goldsmiths was not naturally gifted in this area. So for me, it was maybe right type of career at the right time And I also It was because I obviously didn't know quite a lot of people in the industry. and people would say to me, did you use them to try and get stuff? It's like first of all, it's really hard to do that. Second of all, there's no point going, o, could you put me on mook the week? and then you're shit because you're new and you're not good enough to be on it.. So you have to wait ' till you're good enough to do the things or you maybe get one chance at it and you'll never do it again. So I didn't really use my little black book to help my career apart from to try and get advice and a friend of mine who used to be an agent, quite a successful agent, and then ended up working for one of the big streamers. And she said to me, You do know you don't have to throw away everything you were before. L you could be a really good corporate ak you could be an awards host, do stuff that's that and this. And it's really well paid. And it's really well paid. V stuff Exactly. But actually again, the relevant bit of that great for me that yeah, it does, its it funds my standup hobby. Yeah actually. But also really again, what's relevant for everybody, never mind, just with stand upp and corporates You are the sum of all the things you've been to date. So whatever you decide to do, you know if you're a bus driver and now you want to work in a nail salon, which I know may be an unlikely set of circumstances, but there will be things that were relevant that you were doing as a bus driver that are relevant in the nail salon. L you do develop wisdom that is portable. So it took someone else saying to me, you do know you sort of use everything you've ever done. you're allowed to look at everything you can do and do all of it. I wass like, o. So yeah, that was really amazing It's really great is that it feels like you've taken on other people's very sage advice really well and ran with it. So like it sounds like you were really open to someone going, oh, you can do this or or you know, like going to the to the Public speaking one on one and stuff like that, it feels like you're someone who can really you listen to people and take their advice. I think a lot of people ask for advice and then When they don't hear, you're doing everything great exactly as you are. J just don't change a thing. You're like, o I could expand Yeah myself this way. Say it with me I'm a goddess And then do you feel like now as in your role now as a coach and things is you're sort of helpelping other people. I worked as a coach alongside my day job for about twenty years because when I first got into boardrooms and I was so unhappy But didn't tell anyone and there would have been no one to help. They weren't all big on there kind of like, how's your mental health, Kaly? if I'd walked was itt being the only woman? Yeah Yeah. I mean David Cameron' sat in that boardroom at that time. David Cameron headed up internal communications for Carlton teelevision. So that tells you what it was like. Yeah. ye. So that was the vibe and I realized I was just wasn't as happy as I'd been running a little indie And then And I hadn't asked to be on a board. it's great when you can sell your company although it wasn't just me who owned it. so it's not like I've made enough money to as we're seeing, never work again. And I realized, well, what's missing? And I thought, well, I know what's missing. You know lots is missing. One is being fleeted for agile, not wrapped up in bureaucracy all the time. But the other is human connection And I used to my whole thing, the reason we had good ideas, the reason it was a successful indie, was that we treated people well and we fostered talent and voices and creativity across a range of levels and demographics. and it was without us thinking about being diverse, it was a range of diverse voices And I used to manage people in a way that felt ethical and hopefully was as I wish I'd had been managed So then I like, oh, that's all gone now. All all I'm doing is trying to be heard in this whey waving boardroom. So then I thought, well, maybe I could find the kind of EQ soft side of life in another way. So then I went off, they paid for me to go and do, like I did my master's in NLP paid for by them in taking a few days of work to do it and evenings and stuff And then I startedu a linguistic programming, which is a bit David Brent in its reputation now. But there's some really interesting things to get from it. Y. You have to be it's a bit's muchuch hated and reviled by many people. and I don't really care what people think about it because I'm not in any way evangelical about it. All it taught me to do was have a framework so I could actually, and then I did a coaching qualification. useful stuff that you picked up from. All NLP is is taking all the best bits of everything else and stealing it and finding a framework to use all of it. So stuff from psychotherapeutic approaches to coaching approaches, everything that had existed to the point at which NLP kind of got devised, which I think was in the sixties ish. Everything was sort of was put in a melting pot and it was put in a framework you can use it quite meaningful. The idea being, if someone can be excellent at anything Everyone can be excellent at that thing if you just break down what it is that's helping them be excellent So I remember when we did our presentations and we were finishing the master prractitioner thing and there was one guy who was not a footballer and wasn't particularly coordinated But he had learnnt how, you know when footballers kick a ball up and then they catch it on the back of their neck. Oh yeah. He'd worked out exactly how you do that by microscopic every last tiny minute, and he could do it every single time. And then he got one of us and as it turned out was a woman who I thought was really old at the time. She was probably my age. I was like that old woman loed to do it. That fifty seven year old croc loed to do it. So this really old woman, who possibly was maybe at the outside sixty offered to do it and she couldn't play football either. And she and she could he taught her to do it within three goes and she could do it every time. So that's probably a really visceral example of so that's kind of what NLP is. But I'm definitely not as I said, I'm not evangelical about it, but what it did do was give me I did that in a coaching qualification and then was able to offer coaching outside of my day job. So I just always had one or two coaching clients and then at points did lots of different things in my career at points was running kind of much more of those kind of coaching training things that other points had real jobs I mean, it was all real jobs, but so yeah. so I had like so I thought when I so when when I was thinking about writing the book, I thought when I do corporate stuff, what people like is the combination of robust kind of experience, like seriously having walked the walk, not just looking on about it being funny and having takeouts. so when you give a speech, people go in and they're like, oh, here's three things I can actually do like right now, that's helpful. And I thought, well, if that's what people like hearing and I'm one of the most book speakers in the country, so I must be doing that right. But listening to people I think if you are riddled with imposter syndrome, as many people are, and I think you're very normal and it probably is a sign of not being a psychopath or a narcissist, if you feel like an imposter. So good on us, those who do. If you feel like an imposter, you're going to listen to advice because you're constantly thinking, well, I might just be a piece of shit and this I mightbe shouldn't do. So then if someone goes By the way, you might want to think about this. you're going to go like if anyone, I don't mind if people offer me if people say after my said Have you thought about this topper? I really don't mind because I think, well, maybe I haven't thought about it. Maybe it's good and if it's shit, I won't use it. But I don't mind. Yeah goo ahead. Give me advice. Absolutely great. If I like it, I'll make it. if I don't, I won't mention to you that I did. I think that's one of the really helpful things I've heard you talk about is about people helping each other, I think especially women doing that. like I think it's such an important thing like you talked about pulling up the ladder behind you. Yeah, I think it's really important to know my segue into comedy came about because of a conversation that I've talked about a lot with Joanne Rivers, who I knew because of my day job, and I'd introduced her to the stage lots of times. And she'd seen me on stage as a sort of business host. and she said, I think you're funny and I think you could do stand up I now wonder if she'd been saying that to people for fifty years, everyone she ever met. and then she. I was like she found me. There's probably like hundreds of people out there. Let's still get at me, but I do do. She's not wasting her time doing that. No. Well, I did wonder, but anywways, she's dead now so he would never know. If you've got a good anecdote m sure about a dead person. Y Yeah, yeah yeah But it was lovely that she sort of noticed something in me and power of conversation was that I said it was too late. att the time I was forty five And I was a single mom One of my kids has additional needs, and I was in a boardroom all day every day And I just said to her well, of course it's too late. And she just looked at me and said, Well, I'm eighty one. What's stopping you? And then she died two weeks later. Two weeks after we had a dinner where she said that to me, she was dead very unexpectedly actuallyctually the resonance of that story is A wise female elder. Noticing something in me telling me I could do a thing and putting in context how young forty five was and is. and it is. trust me, as someone twelve years older than that, I'm like, yeah, that is bloody young. And I also think, and I need to remember When I'm seventy, I'm going to be looking back at fifty seven and going you were so young, likeike why were you worrying about? things and You know, today's the youngest we are ever going to be And we forget that. We're so busy thinking, especially as women, we should be looking a certain way. Did we have a kid? What's happening with our relationships? And I think we can just liberate ourselves from that really. Yeah. if you start stand up at forty five, if you can have at least a twenty year career if you want retire Harriet. ye litally Yeah come on. I mean, if you wanted to startop at retirement age, you know, you can, you can have like a A proper yeah, fifty year career. L that's amazing. Yeah we can keep I mean, everybody's going to be working for sort of sixty, seventy yearsue. Yeah. So if we're not up for reinvention, you know, like what are we what are we going to do? And I, you know, I'm lucky enough that I did have those boardroom days But it hasn't enabled I was always the sole breadwinner throughout my kids lives. So I mean, you know, I was with a friend the other day and we had similar careers in media and she's now retired and got plenty of money. And she was like, well, you could do the same thing. And then we worked out know what I have spent on having two children single handedly. is what she's now living off. I was like, No, the money you're having fun with. W Yeah It's got into the bag those pesty j. So she was like, I wonder why I would differently Oh fininancially. I was like, I can tell you their name. Yeah introd just to them. So yeah, you know, the reality is You know, I mean I could sell everything and live in a yt and not work again. I could, definitely, wish not everyone could. I'm lucky that I could do that But I don't want to do that. I want to live in my house and I want to still be able to, you have not do nice things. And I like working, you know, my dad's going through a really difficult cancer journey at the moment. He's very vibrant eighty two year old and seems like twenty years younger than he is I'm just noticing that what's happening for him at this really difficult time in his life is very determined by his physical health, but also his mental attitude Yeah. I don't mean about cancer I'm not saying if you're lening,'ve cancer.'ve got to like grit through it, be positive. It's real, you know, it's notopping him having cancer. But here is how there is something about how he's chosen to live and the curiosity with which he lives and how his world keeps getting bigger Wow. eighty two. That's incredible. And I just think and his mother was the same. my paternal grandmother was the same until she died at ninety nine. she was the same.. So I think, you know, I don't know how long I've got, but I'd like to keep being questioning and curious and trying stuff and keeping things a bit interesting. And if that pays the bills, sometimes that's great. know It doesn't always, but sometimes it does Oh, you just love a roast, do you? Do you have any advice as somebody who has raised children as a single mom, like on the other side of it kind of if you're like in the middle of it, maybe. Just asking for you asking for a f they don't here right now. you hear. You've got to give them the right name, which you did with Bellson. so giving them a good name is good. I think what I would say, particularly to It's often working mums who feel this more than dads, but they may well be dads listening, who feel the same This immense guilt, like I'm never doing anything well. I'm like a shit mum and I'm shit at my job. and everything is everything I'm half asking everything because I can't cope Every time I'm not with the kid, I'm actually being a really bad person and I should be more with them really in an ideal world. But I also what I would say is that It isn't a guilty secret to be pursuing our creative dreams, to be earning a living, to be out in the world. And what you realize when they get older and I never saw this coming until mine were pretty much left home was that I had inadvertently provided I really good role model for both of them, which was you do get off your own arse and earn your own money. you Do beg forgiveness, not permission. Do go where your heart takes you and you do not need to be in a traditional unhappy family unit. if you don't want to, you can do it your way and it can be messy but it's full of love and it's full of hope and have a go. So I think actually you're providing a really good role model, whatever the gender of your child or however they identify of you that women don't have to have a role where the only time they're doing what they're meant to be doing is when they're really brilliant mum. Like great if occasionally we pull that out the bag, which we might do every year or two for an hour. Great, thoseose are lovely moments, but that's not what we're aiming for. know, so the infant of doing being who you are in the world is an immense gift to your children and then they learn that they could be lots of interesting things in the world too. I think that a that's such a lovely h thing to hear. It's been me and Bobby's instinct, and so it's really helpful to hear me that's the other side of it because you don't wantan to make a mistake, obviously, but the thing we always say is that we want her to grow up with parents that are living like full happy lives following their dreams. like that feels like something that's a really good thing for her to grow up and see, but then you're like I don't want to get to ten years time and be like, o, fuck that was we was thin wrong there. That wasake. I think it no, it's not a mistake. So think I think you we have the right instincts. and also There's that horrible saying, isn't that? happppy, happppy wife, happppy life It's not about that, but happy people happy children. you know you've got to be fulfilled and you've got to give her the chance to be fulfilled too and also be confident without one of you around all the time. You know She needs to be confident when you're not there, when he's not there, when she's with someone who's not either of you, that's a gift. Yeah. You can't sort of just attach them to the breast forever. I mean, some people try. do try and that is a rich comedy mine. Can I ask with everything that you've done single mom, you're in a boardroom, you're working all the time Did you find time to date? Oh God, yeah. Did you? Hell yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've dated, as my daughter now says, she's like, you've dated a ridiculous amount, momum. And yeah, I dated far and wide. It was my favorite hobby. No I mean, I was an earlyer adopter of like the dating stuff before the apps were there. I was online. I was making the effort loading it on my browser, when no one was doing it, when there were like fifty people on guard you saes of whom ten were the same person pretending to be ten. So yeah, I split up with my kid's dad when my children were and prior to him, he wasn't like someone I met at school or my one boyfriend.. So I'd lived a rich experience before him. And then we split up when the children were young, three and five. And then from then onwards, I didn't hold back on dating. Oh my God. So yeah, I was always dating. to the point that I think u waste of time I could think of all the Jane Austen novels I could have been reading. Yeah you said it's your favorite hobby? You were ming in your hobby. It was such a fun hobby. And I was on business trips a lot. so like when I would travel away, I was like, why not you know everyone would be like, you eating lots of early nights because of the baby news. I'd be like, No, no is like me. It's like when everyone's like, Ohh should going go to bed and I'm like, No, you don't understand this is precious time. I am living my own life five nights in this one hour. Yeah. Yeah, If you want a crazy night out, you're away, you need to find Da So I ended up yeah, so I did date far and wide. And I think I just assumed I would find another person like my kids but my kid's dad is still an important part of my life and and he and his partner and their kid are part of our family. and'm You know love them and they're really important. and we all live ten minutes away. And I think I just assumed I would find another him. And I was like, oh, yeah, I'll find another person who I live with and resettle. And that just was absolutely not be So I have had the most fun and the most atrocious taste in humans. I've got very goodast friends. friendriends I'm great on, family I'm great on animals, I'm great on.. But yes, I think yeah, I've had terrible taste in terrible taste audi. Anyone listening, my dog has got his tongue deep in a glass of water. But yeet all that time and now, you know And this slurping animal on my knee, I joke that he's the best husband I ever had because he's so fun to hang out with. So I just really like hanging out with a dog And I have dated since I've had the dog. I'm on a bit of a hiatus at the moment because my last Even by my standards, my last dating experience was so negative I was like, you know what? I'm not doing this anymore. I had a bit of a break. I need a break. I can't put myself through that anymore. Yeah. Do you normally have guests with a sound effect of slurping? N before sometimes it me to be fair ye. It's like, Harriet stop slurping. It's disgusting How yet put a dog with tits on my profile What are you like on d I imagine you' far attractive. Yeahah ten So ten. That's like like all of us, right? Yeah And the people are very lucky to have me on the dayate. No, well I'm like kind I think I'm sort of pretty much how I am. I think maybe I used to be a bit more of a people pleaser. Nowadays, less so. So like yeah, there were sort of some I was always quite good at leaving dates so I didn't like people. So when I was doing So my advice is for online dating and I used to do so much of it when I was a single busy mum. and I would always have something else going on outside that I was going so I'd have another thing like I would have like friends who'd be down the pub and I was going to join them after And I would always say because I'd have a babysitter. I would always say to the person, I have to be somewhere in an hour. I've only got an hour And I really would have a thing I could go to, but it was never a thing I had to go to. So it wasn't like I'm meeting my friend, Sarah and we're going to the cinema. So if I was having a lovely time, then I would say after an hour actually I don't need to go to that thing, I'll stay. But it meant I always had an out.. And sometimes when I started stand upp, the out was, I had a gig and I really did have a gig. So I remember the last guy I kind of really fell for I said, we' I've only got an hour and then I got the wrong pub And ended up so I actually ended up with like twenty seven minutes. and I and then I was on stage. I was like, I've got a gig and he said, Wh are you going to see? I said, Me I literally we had time for a drink and a snog and then I had to be on stage. twenty seven minutes Yeah. Yeah I actually did this where I arranged a date before like dinner before a gig and the food didn't arrive and I had to leave. It was like It was crazy, but yeah, you just it's a way of fitting it in. and he was really cool about it and then just came and met me around the corner for a drink afterwards. Yeah, well, I totally and also that's important. they can have to take us as we are, which is badass, comedians.. But yeah my advice is to not make it the only if you're a single mum dating, don't make it the only thing you're doing that night. It good advice because I think that feeling has to be a good night for you. Yeah. And they may or may not be part of your good night. So yeah So that was that's my advice, double dip, double dip. And also leave if you don't like someone or they say something that offends you or whatever, just go. you don't need to explain. I think for all women it's helpful because that's a whole evening and then it can get you down. whereas if you were like, oh, that was a bad hour, but then I had a great time afterwards. It's a good night. Yeah. I remember I was thinking about stating stories before I came, is what not to do was that so I always would have a wing woman. I write about this in the book, or a wing person, but it was usually a woman. So I would tell them because I was meeting people from that their internet in the days when it was much less normal to do it. And I would always tell a mate, you where I was going and with whom I would send the profile and if I had a phone number, which I always did I'd say that somebody knew what was going on. And a few of my friends are like main wing women at that time. And I remember sending a thing to my girlfriend who actually I saw last night for a Cry twenty years ago probably. and I said, I'm going to the World Festival Horse, I said I'm going to the RFH And I'm going to be there at seven. anyway I messaged her later on' saying he was a real prick, but I'm home now And she went, Why did you meet him at the Royal Free Hospital? And I was like, You were the shittest wing womoman ever. why would anyone have a date? bit with the smoking heart patients? Let's hang out here. But so anyway, a different and another wing womoman I used to have a look back then Joe, I met someone at the Engineer pub in Primroose Hille, just near where I live And I walked in and this guy was like who I was meeting, was like way older as they often were back then, way older than he'd said. And he was sitting chatting to other people And then he just started telling me about like engineering and the pipe works under London. And I was like, oh God. So I messaged my friend Joe. He went up to the betet drink saying, ten years older than he said and really fucking boring about engineering Only I'd send it to him. Oh I got a text No saying No, I can't. I can saying say I'm not that old and I've got stories that aren't about engineering and you want IC I couldn't leave because I was in the end of the pub. like the bar was between me and the exit Oh no Yeah. And then by the time he sat down, my phone was on the table. So this is by the time we all had mobiles and apps. This would have been probably on, I don't know what Tinder or something back then And then my friend Joe sent back a sort of phallic meme of piston engines, which as he put the drinks down lit up on the t Oh my God Oh God, that's so stressful. Are you good at m making the first move Yes What are your tips V veryy good at making the first move. Do you mean in terms of asking someone out or the physical stuff or haing all of that advice you've got. Yeah, well, making the first move, I mean, obviously consent goes both ways. so I'm not pinning people up against a wall just because I'm an older woman. I. We've been persecuted for years. It's my moment. shut up So I think obviously to make sure that we're making sure things are wanted, but yeah, I think it's completely fine to how are you doing it? Well I would say something that is much more I would say that I would say that I fancy them I find them really attractive. I would say Yeah, I would say something that was overtly, you know, if we were talking about reading William Thackery, and I was really fancy and the person I would say, I'm kind of thinking about other things right now. and you know I don't often find people as attractive as I find you. somethingomet like that. I would ever do that That's amazy. Yeah I think and it works. It like never works. every I've never had y. And that's why I've got a dog. but I've read a lot. and I'm great at needle pointint. So do what I do girls? No, I think like the last time I fancied somebody because the bar has sort of changed a bit for me in terms of I don't know what's changed. Somet's changed. Anyway, I don't fancy as many people as I used to fancy I used to just fancy I'd say to my friends, I find him really attractive. un ususually they'd like, it isn't unusual is Is it Celly because because you just fancy everybody. I'm like, Oh yeah. my type was broad. But I was hosting an awards thing recently and there was a guy on the sort of top table when we're having dinner, and you don't normally meet the hot guys at those things But this guy we got chatting and there was a massive chemistry I was like, oh Godd, I haven't felt this for ages. And I sort of thought he was feeling the same. And in that case, I just made sure that at the end of the night, so he'd won some award for whatever at the end of the night and I'd handed out the award and then I had to go. And I made a point. he was in a big circle of people and I just made a point of really making Having quite prolonged eye contact with him as I was saying goodbye to the group. and I just wanted to make absolutely sure that we'd fully locked eyes. So we locked eyes for quite a long time, and I was pretty sure that it was mutual the thing. And then he messaged me afterwards. So I think even that was just a clear move. I wasn't looking away. I was saying I'm leaving, but I wanted him to know It isn't because I wouldn't like in other circumstances to talk to you quite a lot more So we just got to own that We're got to own that shit. and you know, and we get rejected so much as stand upps and people in showbers. Yeah What's the worst someone we fancy going to throw us? It's not going to be worse than someome of the things that happen at the boat show on a Friday hight. So' at music In a tent at festival. I mean we've got the chops for rejection. othertherwise we wouldn't be doing this. So for example, say I have a crush on someone Using you as an example. Using me as an exam. just I have a push on someone. And I think maybe there's a vibe, but I'm'm not fully sure Would you advise for or against me just messaging and saying like, I think you're really hot you want to snog? I think the better thing is to try and find a way to do it face to face.'s so scary. Yeah, because I feel like otherwise you're sort of chatking having an open window. like a mad This is the risk of the not reply. Yes,es you give them a lot of power for the not reply Yeahes. So I think if you I think if you can do a more of a You find a way to do it more face to face, I think that's really good. But I definitely don't believe I was definitely from an era. you know, I was born in the sixties. and women were meant to like be holding things back and sort of playing games and playing hard to get and making the guy do the running and don't. It' like I always just thought what a load of absolute shites. And like what what So, you know, I think I think we need to, what are we waiting I mean, yeah, we don't want to go hurling in without reading the room, but we know, Amy does read the room because skes on a helmet. knee bling exactly read the room.. But I think when you're reading the room, you know we know how to read a room and what are we scared of? And also if they're going to be a dickad or a deedist or ghostess or whatever They are a dicked. so we might as well flush out the dickness Well they're your person, or they're a dick. Or they're not your person who's also a dick.. And then skate on my friends. skate on Thank you so much, Kelly. Your book is available in paperback now. It's available Yeah. Namastday Motherfuckers. It was out in hard backack last year. it's coming out for on the twenty first of May and I'm touring everywhere. I'm doing a show that it's a two hour one woman show and the first half is pretty much is stand up. And the second half is more book and other things. my dogs die crying when I talkks about my tour. Oh lead me toour So don't worry Where can people find to get to that? All at Calibbeaton dot com is the best place to go and the tour is carrying on at the moment. there are dates listed until the end of twenty twenty six and we're about to extend in twenty, twenty S my gazing Amazing. thanks for having me. inspiring and w. Thank you right back at you Is it happy Incredible. Yeahah, Cali unbeaten Yeah, I would that Yeah. half that that should be an next book. Yeah. It's really good. Yeah, I think it's so it's so inspiring to hear of people that just like keep Wanting to get better. Yeah. It does feel like a thing that as you get older, the instinct really is just to kind of start just shutting down. Yeah fuck it. I am what I am. I'm not a learner. Yeah. I'm not a learner. I'm not advancing on this, but I feel like we did I certainly learn. I learn whether I retain the information orough that's why I'm present for it. It's not on me it's not on her Yeah But yeah, I think it's really it's really inspiring because already I'm like Do things I don't want to learn, but you know, you must You must. The thing I'm so excited to do is, which I know I will fuck up Try and hold eye contact with someone Ie fancy until they I was really thinking that for you. I think that's a really good way of doing it. It's like it's letting them know or just getting into conversation. I don't think I've ever said this to a man that I find attractive. Well, obviously you're attractive, so. Do you imagine just slipping that in? I find it really hard giving me in confidence. We've learnt this about you. That's one of the things I've learnt about you. I've got better at it though. Yeah.'ve literally got better. I've started to say nice things to them like it's really you I'm really learning. I just didn't really it never really occurred to me. Yeah Actually they really like it and it's a way of showing them that you do like them. It's almost like they're people. Almost. But I'm going I'm going to take on a lot of Like I just, you know hurt to have a tenth of Kali's Dve. It's incredible. Yeah. wants to live her best life. Yeah. And I do not like this phrase, but I do feel It's the first time it's ever been appropriate. She's a girl boss She's an effing girl boss. She's girl bossing all over the shop. Yeah doing so incredibly well and she's so cool And funny and it's so hot being like, ye, fancy you. Oh my god. I love snogging after twenty seven minutes. comeome on, that's hot. I turned up my date