Future of English Cricket and Scheduling

Yeah, gone! Gone he gets his fairy tale ending! An epic way to go to a test match hundred. The London spear the first time winning! The most remarkable thing you've probably ever see in cricket . 6 04 and final test wicket for Stuart Wall. It's India who win the T-20 World Cup. England's captain Ben Stokes, while he is there, England have hope . They told me we were going to do this in your office initially, which I have I imagine to be utterly immaculate with not a piece of paper out of place. Is that how it is? Ah, you know me too well. But if you'd asked to have the interview two weeks ago it would have been a definite no because for some reason while I was here full time last year it turned into a warehouse effectively but my O C D or whatever kicked in and it's now pretty good but still not immaculate. Um you are back full time. What what does a a day at the Oval look like for Alex Stewart in the position you're in because you're not the the head coach obviously but you are the director of cricket here. You have a very hands-on role. What what does a a day look like for you in championship? Day it's very much, you know, it is the head coach Gareth Patty's done a brilliant job since coming in. That he runs it and that's how it needs to be. So leading into it, we'll have spoken about the squad, and then the squad is the easy bit and then when it comes to the final eleven it will be the captain and coach that discuss if there is any slight disagreement, not that there really is, then I will come back in. But we'll have spoken beforehand what the intended eleven may be, but that's it. Gareth will always give the the speech unless a captain does or another player. And then I'm in the background, believe it or not, supporting. And then we've got Nick Potters who's come in as fielding and keeping consultant. So again when he is here it's important that he keeps that role. He's not doesn't do every day, I'll do the day before the first four day game and the day of and then I'll come out pre-match and help Ben Folkes or whoever the keeper may be. Otherwise I sit very much in my office, I'm not in the round and dressing room being a pain in the bum. Others may disagree. But otherwise I'll be up in my office and that's where you sort of have to do is I call it laptop work, um preparation looking, ahead, etcetera Um I know you're at Radlet the other day where your second eleven were playing Middlesex which is my local club. So how do you balance your time between first eleven, second eleven, who are obviously pushing the to get into that first eleven, but also then the level below that, th the pipeline that's coming through. At least one day of a three or four day second team game. So that I've got eyes on on the players always good um for the second having coaches to report back to myself or Gareth Batti. But if I've seen them myself then you have first hand knowledge, and also it's good that the players understand that whether it's myself, first team are taking note of performances, attitudes, approach from the second team. And then Academy Pathway is Chris Taylor, former Gloucester player. He's been Academy Pathway Director for what is it now? Four years, I think. So we will speak whether it's every day but certainly regularly. Again, what players are coming through who has performed well and I I've always worked on a three year cycle so it's it's very much who is coming through who may be dropping off and do we have can we promote from within because that's always the first place we look and if not we will go outside. Um spoke to your old fella the other day, Mickey, who was in Goodnick I thought, and is England's oldest living cricketer now. It's a remarkable link that your family have with this club almost what, eighty years now. Um you came back full time last year because your wife, Lynn, died after a very long illness. Was that a straightforward decision to come back full time? Or was there any part of you that thought had a significant kind of uh change moment in your life that it was time to maybe do something else? Yeah I thought Longman Hard Listen if Lynn was still here I wouldn't have come back because it was very much the reason why I stepped down was I owed a time um as as you'll know because of cricket it takes takes you away from home and it almost overtakes your life for a lot a lot of the or your family time. So I'd said right I'm gonna spend time and Lynn's passing happened sooner but sooner than we anticipated. And then once you you have to come to terms with it, it was right, what am I gonna do? What do I want to do? And also um do they want me back here? Um because you never just want to come back just because you've been associated with the c lub. I'd stayed in the background with for a little bit and then they said, you know, would you like to come back? Will you come? And I said, just give me time. So I'm making sure it is the right decision for me, but also the right decision for the club. Um and then yes I've come back as of sort of first of jam and getting back into sort of how it was um while also conscious that over a twelve month period things can change, people can take on a few more responsibilities but I love the place and while I still think I can have a positive impact or input um then I'll be here and once either my enjoyment's gone or I'll get a tap on the shoulder but I'll always be a surrey Um the club got pipped to the championship last year, other than you not being here full time. What what was the difference? Uh obviously you'd had a long run of success in championship cricket prior to that, um and it's been a tremendously successful period for the last decade or so. Ha what w what was just what was the thing that was just missing last year for you do you think? Well first of all let's congratulate Nottinghamshire for winning it, so that that's the first thing. And then a lot of people say the hardest one to win is the first one, which it was , but then a second one, a third one, and then going for a fourth one, subconsciously, you know, the lads going back to the well to use a term. Was there something fractionally missing? Were we just fractionally down on what levels of performance we'd put in and worked so hard for the three previous years? We'll never really know, but that's where we're looking at it. And then key moments also, you know, that Knotts game which was covered on Sky. We had moments to win that. You know, Knotts got off to a good start, we came back in it. And there are a couple of moments where if we'd grabbed them, I think we'd have won that game and then it might be different. It might have been four on the drop. But it it didn't happen, not won it, uh and we'll look back and say why. Um but it is it's those it was those key moments, the tough periods when previously we've just nailed them. Was it because if we're asking yet again the same group, though each time we've won it I've added to the to the squad, was it just asking them too much? And we saw a little bit of that the first day of this championship game where Essex got off to a terrific start. You've found it quite hard to get twenty wickets here, haven't you? Yeah that that's been probably some pre the the game against Leicester first game here and and then this one. The weather probably hasn't been helpful, this beautiful blue sky, but also the amount of moisture that we haven't had, rain, etc. So is the pitch is the square just that little bit drier? That has therefore meant the pitches aren't quite what they were is there not quite as much moisture in the in the grass, in the the leaf as a groundsman may say. Uh and therefore has that just meant there hasn't been quite as much sideways movement as well as pace and bounce. We always want pace and bounce, but with that generally comes some sideways movement. Not just swing but a little bit of scene, especially the first two sessions of of day one. And also looking slightly deeper. Now there are two and I think other grounds have had the same. Now there are two full time professional set ups here, the men and the women, and they've been playing some games. If you're gonna sympathise with anyone it's the ground staff who have to work I won't say twice as hard but a lot harder they therefore have less time preparing pitches because there are other games or other training sessions being put on here. So it's great that the women's game is flourishing and that that is the right thing and it is going in the right direction. The knock on effect is uh the men suffering or the pitches suffering um because of the lack of attention perhaps the ground staff can give. How how much of your time is spent um trying to identify overseas players? So it's peculiarly difficult now compared to when we played where you'd have your one overseas player, whether it's Wacka Unis or whoever is at the club for all season and many years. And now, you know, players come and go for obvious reasons. Is it is there still value to be had in overseas players in the championshi p or has it got to the point where that's a a a debate to be had and obviously it's easier to get quality overseas players in the short form competitions, the blast and the hundreds. Yeah, look the the job has become harder for everything you've said there. More franchise cricket, not just the IPL. You know, there's now the MLC, then you'll have the uh the CPL Caribbean Premier League and then there are other European ones uh creeping in as well. So to get the the top top quality is difficult also because they're earning such good money either through international cricket or perhaps the IPL. So the attraction of yesteryear coming to play County cricket isn't quite the same. But we still pride ourselves on if we're going to sign someone, it has to be enhanced the squad and they've got to be a good person. So some like a Sean Abbott think this is for stint with us. It's like he's almost coming back home. So to ask answer the other part of your question, I would still keep overseas players in the county championship, but you don't have to sign them. Yeah. That that is the thing. People say I'll just stop them. Well no, still have that availability and then it's up to each count y whether they believe whoever is available will enhance their team, enhance their squad, and if they're available for eight games, ten games, or only two games, that's down to each individual county. Sorry, I looked at the numbers. I think you had close to eighty thousand through the gate for championship cricket for your home games last year, way in advance of any other county. What are Surrey doing in the championship to get the crowds in that other counties are not doing? First of all look we've had success so straight away people want to be um attracted to or attached to success so what we've done in a championship winning it has created a little bit of a buzz if you wish to use that word. Also, we are lucky, look. We're on the doorstep of the city. So that's jump on the tube, come down here and watch some cricket. Um we actually try and promote the game. You know, you've seen work from the OVLAS against work from home. Um, the marathon is this weekend. Anyone I think who turns up their marathon medal can bring themselves and the guest in for free. So we're just trying to be think outside the box really to make it a place to come. Also, the average age is dropping, certainly on weekends. You know, a lot of people say I'll canichree, it's just watched by retired people, which yeah is a fact. But we also the our audience is getting younger and it may be is it the same as So the whole club effort I mean you know often I see it clubs that there's the cricket on one side, the commercial on the other. It sounds to me like you you've got quite an integrated effort here to push championships. There's always gonna be uh the cricket club, Surrey County Cricket Club, and then there's a key rover which is a conference and advance business, which brings in millions, you know, so we shouldn't you know, that is a a success on its own. But I think they can go hand in hand as well. If the team is successful or teams are successful on the field, that must help the commercial side and vice versa. If it's successful here, our budgets go up, etc. But it's still gonna spend the money wisely but look at the moment we're in a good place. Um this year will be tougher just because when the test matches and when I think the one day international is the last day of September, 28th of September. Um but there are other things as well that we do to try and promote the game and we are big Red Bull fans here, not just myself, I know you are, um, but as a club we've got and is that true of your players still? Because obviously the game has changed, you mentioned all the short form competitions around franchise competitions. By and large, do your players still value winning the championship above other competitions? Look we've we've only won the T twenty once back in 2003, the very first one. That's a bugbear of all of us that we haven't won it. We've got the finals but not won it. But if you're offered, well certainly from our point of view, if you're offered a championship trophy or another trope, we'll take the championship first up, because that is a true test. You know, T20 is vitally important, don't get me wrong, but as a club and as individuals and as a group, yeah, the championship is is the benchmark and therefore we want our players to be multi-format players. At times they will, you know, as their career goes on, they go, no, I'll be a specialist, white ball or whatever. That's fine, they're there to earn money. But we will always promote Red Bull cricket, certainly while I'm here. Hi there, it's Darmes Chef from the Sunday supplement podcast. Every week I'll be joined by some of the UK's top sports journalists to go beyond the head lines and unpick the big stories. Catch us every Sunday live on Sky Sports News between 9 and 11am with the podcast dropping as soon as we come off air. So if you don't already, give Sunday supplement a follow wherever you get your podcasts, and I'll see you on Sunday mornings . Turned to England. I know you're very proud Englishman . Um how much of the ashes did you watch? What do you make of it ? Frustrating opportunity thrown away or lost. 'Cause Australia weren't a great side this time but playing in Australia as we know, you know, we didn't win over there. It it is tough 'cause you're not just playing the team, you're playing the country. Um and again it's easy outside looking in. I was there in Perth for the whole test match of two days. You have to get off to a good start in Austral ia and losing that test match made it almost impossible to come back I would say. We should have won that or could have won that. People talk about preparation, that's another another discussion But the fact that we were effectively 100 for one, I think, at lunch on day two and then lost it , that almost then set the tone for the rest of the tour. Were you I I mean I was quite optimistic about England's choices before going out and so uh uh you said frustrated. I I mean there i there is an element of England fans who I think feel that the England team had it coming in some ways . Do you buy that? When I say yes or no, i i that's what I say when you're outside we're all experts aren't we? Until you're the actual decision makers with hindsight and everything else we get it right . All I ever say is when you've done something good or bad, reflect and would you do it differently? And the preparation or lack of stood out like a sore thumb to everyone, not just to you Stokes' term has beans or whatever. Common sense said you are going to a country where a lot of the players have not played before, you're playing at Lila Kill where I had seven years. It's nothing like playing at when it's the opt-a stage more the whack, which is simple So that was an obvious error, and I'd call it an error, because I they will in uh when they next go back they have a different uh lead into the ashes. So things like that New Zealand White Ball series yes have been booked in. But what's more important, if I said well the people who are watching or listening to this, what was that white ball series score ? People probably wouldn't remember what was the Ashes score? People will know. So you just have to balance that up. Um, and also to say, Oh, look, the Wacker wasn't available. If you want to play at the Wacker or train at the Whacker , but it's 12 months ago, 18 months previous, you book it in, or you you insist that train there or you're not coming. It's pretty simple again when we sat here. So I just I'm always I'm massive on preparation as you know whether it's to go out and play or to try and do whatever role you're in. You've got to prepare well. So at least if you fail you c you know you couldn't have done things any better. But if you don't prepare well then fail, it's your fault. You work with Richard Gould here when he was CEO. Obviously he was involved in the review post ashes. Does he does he pick up the f phone and and um pick your brain about that? No. No. No. No, I'm not look, I saw Gouldie, he was in Perth and he's look he was a great chief executive, he's a great person. Um but no we haven't had conversations about anything to do with English. So he hasn't asked you whether you're available for Rob Key's job. No it listen, Guldie was an excellent chief exec, um and Tommer was a good a good chair here as well, Richard Thompson. But they're you know they're across the river now, so no I haven't spoken to even about the ashes if if they ever want my opinion, I'll give it to him, but everything's been sorted anyway. Um but we've all look we're all England fans, whether we played or not, we want England to do well and it's just that's why I used frustrating that we threw away an opportunity because of the quality or lack of absolute high class quality that Australia had at the start of that summer. Can I talk about the relationship between England and the counties? Because that you you you kind of that is an area that you will be involved in because presumably, you know, there's a whether it's a constant communication, but there is communication between um England and the counties. I mean one of the themes to emerge in the last few months is that that relationship has had had become a little fractured and in need of uh improvement. A, would you agree with that? And if so, how had it become fractured, and what does the relationship between counties and En gland look like in an ideal situation ? I'm like you I'm big mates with Keyesy with Rob Key and he he rings me and has run me regularly. So that relationship is a good one. He'll bounce players or thoughts off me and vice versa. Uh so that's fine. But I think the if you want to call it a breakdown is the perhaps lack of communication or lack of questions from England to the counties about players, about their own players, not just their ability, but their characters, characteristics, personality, how they like to be treated, how they like to train, etc. And then also and again selection is always an opinion. Yeah. Some left field random selections that have come from nowhere. And then also the perceived comments or whether they were factual or not. Of course is so far removed from international cricket we don't really look at what goes on there. It's what we see, the visuals of what are the attributes of someone who's six foot six or someone who can hit the ball this far or whatever. So that's where you should never devalue county cricket because this is a breeding ground for for test cricket or have you sensed with your players a feeling that it doesn't really matter how many runs, how many It was that it's not going to have any impact upon our chances of the year. So you saw people use Dom Sibley for an example, you know , one of the better opening batters in County cricket and he's been prolific, you know, last year had an excellent, but it was perceived his style would not suit the the Stokes McCullum um way of playing. Which is fine because they're the ones who are being judged. So I don't have a problem with that. But people shouldn't start going outside of what they can do to try and get recognized, you always expand your game, but don't go from naught to a hundred straight away, go through the gears . Um, so yes, we've always spoken about being positive, but I've always said you're positive in defence and attack, not just trying to hit fours and sixes, read situations of games and that type of thing. And and that's where, again, as an oldie, when it's that's how I play, or just hit it further next time when you' creaught an in eighty metre boundary. Well you don't hit the ball more than eighty metres too regularly, so have the percentages in your favour in everything you do. And then if that is recognised, I think it joins everyone up a little bit more instead of I've seen Um I mean there's always been a little bit of friction between counties and and England. I can remember going way back actually to when your dad was in charge and I'm I'm fairly certain that you know that the England bowling coach, can't remember who it was, might have been Jeff Arnold or somebody, was sent to Derby to work with Devin Malcolm and Derby, you know, had their noses put out of joints. So it's not a new thing. There's always been that element. But uh if I if I took a player here, for example, who might encapsulate how that fri friction manifests itself. Take Jamie Smith for example. And you ca I I can see this from both sides of the fence, it seems to me, that c he at the moment he's batting three for Surrey and not keeping. He l likely b at seven for England and keep. How how does that conversation happen then between Surrey and England? Do they ring up and say we'd quite like Jamie Smith to keep before Test cricket starts this summer? And we haven't had a conversation. You know, that that's the thing and you have to remember that Jamie Smith was picked for England when he wasn't keeping for Surrey. So nothing has changed. He was banning four for us. So they have chosen to pick him as the keeper and then move him to seven. But if they rang you and said we'd quite like him to keep, uh you just within your rights to say, well we think Ben Folk is a better keeper and he's gonna keep. We want England to be the success, we want all our players to play for England. We've again, that's that's always been the case. But we've got to do what is right for us. And that's what we do. And we also, by the way, believe it's right with Jamie Smith to be banning at three. And he's banged out was he banged out? Yeah. Yeah. In the first uh two and a half games. So we believe that he is a high quality batsman or batter. Um and he and he can he keeps wicket 'cause he keeps wicked for England. But we're not gonna leave out Ben Fokes or take the gloves off Ben Folesk when I've always said he's the best in the world, but he's one of the best keepers about. He bats at six, and he is going to be the constant. He is with us, because at the minute England aren't going to re-pick him. So he is the constant. So yes, we will help England, but it can't be the to detriment of what we want as counties. And that's always been the case. You know, there'll be people again listening, watching going, England must come first . But we also have a job to do. We are doing what we believe is right for Surrey, but we also think we're helping England by Jamie Smith coming back, batting at the correct Jamie Smith tempo, spending long time in the middle, playing against a new ball on pitches that may do a little bit, so that wherever England then playing, he is in good form. The keeping side w will work for hours. If he wants to work for hours here, um pre-match training days, he can do that but actually keeping in our team right now that's been folks . And and the health of English cricket more generally, I mean we talked about you know the England players that you produce here, the strong pipeline of tal ent, the almost eighty thousand people that came through the gates here for championship cricket last year. But that's not necessarily the nationwide situation. I was looking at the numbers, I think North Ants last year had maybe five thousand come through the gate for their home championship games. So you may have a you know a a different view of things from here, but are you broadly optimistic about um the state of cricket across across the land. Yes, I am. Um but one I I'm in the game, like you're in the game, so y y we're here to promote it, but be honest as well. So yeah, we're always looking to better it, don't worry about that . But it's I think it is in a good state, a healthy state. There'll be people, you know, the hundred is now here to stay. As long as those monies that are coming in are invested wisely and they have to be, then I hope that the future of the game for the next minimum of 20 years just goes up and up and up because we are duty bound, one sounds silly doesn't it, but to leave the game in a better place when we do walk away from it when, your position position, my, whatever. But but we also gotta speak well of it. But make sure they're not just words. The actions have to back it up. Um so therefore if money is invested wisely and I'm not just talking in player salary, by the way, I'm talking whether it's facilities, whether it is bringing it down into grassroots, whether it's club level, can we get more coaches qualified to help the the six, seven, eight year olds? And to make it an attractive proposition. So there's enough or there were detractors, and we had the lots here, about the hundred. But if that is making it more appealing to the youngsters, even with uh Jude Bellingham investing in Birmingham, what a great story that is. You know, that mul atimillion pound footballer loves the game of cricket, is invested his own money into that. That is good headlines which will potentially will that bring some people who just say I only like football to go, well if Jude Bellingham likes cricket , perhaps I may as well. So we've got to use all those things in a real positive way and be proactive, not reactive but be proactive in pushing it t to make it the best best sport going that cricket can be. And th th there are some challenges a around scheduling for the for the professional players. I I we I think have differing ideas of what should be played under the hundred. I'd like to see some championship cricket but I understand from your position. You'd be putting a third eleven out there. I'll be signing you up but But what does a what would an ideal schedule look like from your position here at Surrey or is that close to impossible now? Scheduling together to fit as we keep saying we're now fitting four competitions into what was three, and our three competitions were over six months, they're now over four and a half months really . So I haven't got the answer. We can all sit here and moan. We've got to try and sort it out, but that we'll finish this round of um championship creep before the blast starts. We'll have played six games. It's just under half the season done by mid-May. But what else can you do? You know, I I'd say we disagree on what should happen during the during the hundred. Uh uh the fifty over is a good competition. How many are you losing this year? Sixteen. Sixteen. Yeah, sixteen. That that that is a decimate your side. Yeah, so and that's not just yes, it would affect us massively, but straight away I think you then devalue the county championship by not having your best domestic players available, let alone your internationals. So the 50 over comp is good, we use the term development, but we want to win it, we want to try and win it, but it does allow us to play some people who aren't regular first team players, and we've always also brought players in from the academy. It's list A so it's meaningful and it's big for them and we get an early look at them and they can develop against better opposition and just second level. But how you get get it spread because again I like the T 20 in a block so that players can focus just on that competition. Others say well if we spread it about but it just makes it it is impossible to give you an answer that is going to satisfy ever yone. Um bowling loads, all all the things that everyone has heard about, if you go from bowling four overs to then next week you've got to bowl thirty, then come back to four, the risk of injury goes through the roof. So it's far from straightforward and sadly I'm not giving you an answer. Um finally, after forty years here, do you still have the same enthusiasm every morning you woke up this morning in New Mal is it still New Malden or somewhere up no further out now. It's a longer journey. If only, yeah. Um you still have that same enthusiasm coming in? Yeah. I still you know, I because I'm an idiot, I'll either drive home and go through the day's play or or look f you know, drive home and right what's gonna happen. Whether it's a match day training day, whether I've got a meeting to attend, I still ac the day I stop enjoying it, I hope is the day I say that's me done, I'll just come back as a fan. Good lad . Th Thankank you you. . Hi, I'm Tamsin Greenway. And I'm Tracy Neville. And we've teamed up this season for Sky Netball's Off the Court Podcast .