Environmental Impact and Disposal

Hello, I'm Greg Foot and welcome to Sliced Bread, the show that investigates the Wonder products promising to make you happier, healthier or greener. Each episode, we follow the crumbs of evidence to find out if one of your suggested Wonder products is indeed the best thing since Sliced Bread or marketing thees And today's suggestion comes from Ella Woolsworth Bell, who is in Falmouth. Welcome Ella. Hi day. Who's this with you This is Mr. Big, our new Sphinx cat. H full name is Mr. Bigglesworth. Now hang up, that is the same Bed of cat and name of cats, as Dror Evil has in Austin Powers. That's absolutely right ye. And what wonder product would you and Mr. Big like us to investigate today? Well, we have never had an indoor cat before, so that has opened up a whole new world of cat litter. I'd like to know a bit more about Cap litter the different types, what are the benefits of each both environmental and which is going to be the easiest to use. The clay stuff, the stuff that looks like little rocks is definitely one of the cheaper options, but I've heard that it's not so great for the planet. Right. What I want and what Mrter Big wants may be something slightly different. I would like less smelly cat litter and I don't really like the way it tracks across my really nice wooden floors, but rather it stayed in the litter tray Some of the cat litter claims to be gentle on the pores. I'm not really sure what all that's about And clumping and non clumping. Cumping and non clumping, yes. What are you using right now, Ella? I am now using the wood pellets, but it doesn't seem to last. It just turns to wet sawdust. Well, we have had lots of cat owners send in emails to sliced dot bread at bbc dot co dot Uk asking us to investigate this.istenrewe Catitter is doing his head in because there are so many aspects to consider. Like you he wants to know about the environmental impact and about clumping, but also how cat litter should be disposed of, particularly whether it is indeed okay to flush it down the toilet somethinghing that some products suggest you can do, but he is not sure Listener Terry also emailed in with similar concerns after listening to our episode on Dog poo bags, which of course you can listen to over on BBC Sounds if you haven't already. Let me introduce Ella the two experts who are gonna to give us the inside scoop. Don't worry. I've checked that they are both real. they are not AI. There is no cat GPT today First up Joining me from London is a cat expert, veterinary surgeon and author of the book What's My Cat Thinking, Dror Joe Lewis. Welcome Jo. Hey, Greg, how How are you? Thank you. And Mr. Big. Yeah. The star of the show. And my second expert who is here in the studio with me, an engineer and former managing director at the pet care company Bob Martin, Savy Madden, welcome Savvy. Thank you very much, Greg. Savy, your previous job was to design and to make cat litter. Yeah, over the last thirty years, I've developed, sold, made, marketed cat litters. so I have quite a lot of experience in the area And are you currently working on anything related to cat litter? I have one project and I'm advising one brand on catleitter, but it's not one of the brands we're talking about today. Okay, And Joe, any conflicts of interest that we should know about in your work? No, I pride myself on giving kind of independent advice. The cats come first. Okay, great. Well, Ella, as we've discussed, mister Big is an indoor cat So unless you were okay with him weing and pooing on your kitchen floor, he needs a little tray inside to relieve himself on Jo, will you always need a little tray indoors, even if you've got an outdoor cat All cats are different as anyone who has a cat knows. and some will exclusively toilet outside because that's their comfort zone. I would always say they need the option of an inside. access to a toilet, so that. e., a litter box. How do you work out how many you need? The rule of thumb tends to be one tray per cat plus one extra. And there's another sort of rule of thumb where you have one litter tray per floor. Got you. Okay the question today is what litter should you put in your litter tray? Savvy, broadly, what does cat litter need to do So essential is that it absorbs and it absorbs relatively quickly. so the catpee doesn't go through to the bottom of the tray and he gets sticky mess on the bottom of the tray. The second is generally odor control. I think Al has spoken a little bit about the dust and the tracking. And then the other one is it has to be poor friendly. Some cat litters are actually not that poor friendly because they're quite sharp There's also potentially an issue with scent. So something that smells nice to us. might not smell very nice to your c. Because Joe, I guess just as Ella said, there's kind of what the owner wants and there's what the cat wants. Yeah, absolutely. In some ways, they're very similar because you know what a cat wants, they're very clean animals. They spend so much of their day other than sleeping cleaning themselves and having Unwanted scents on them, particularly the scent of urine or feces is really unpleasant for them. Really, the key with the cat litter is getting it right so that you can keep the tray clean as far as possible at all times. So I'd add to Savvy's list from a veterary angle and from a cat behaviour angle, I would say the priority is getting a cat litter that you can keep in tik took conditions. Yeah, gotcha. This the bigigg is behaving wonderfully on the camera What a performer. Hing away, Greg. What sweetie Right, let's get into the different materials that are offered then. know, As listener Andrew lamented, there is a lot of choice when it comes to cat litter. So again, zooming out, Savvy, what general types of cat litter are on offer There are three main categories. the first being the natural clays, the second being manufactured cat lettters and then the third are the natural catletters, which are generally made from organic matters go through them one by one, starting with the natural clay cat litters These are the traditional itters, aren't they savy? So they there little greay granules. Are there different types? Yeahep, there are essentially two types of natural clay. One is bentonite. It's the one that clumps. The other is Aapol guide And why are those two particular clays used? They are natural absorbers, but they have to be dried before they become absorbent. and you have to reduce that moisture content down to about ten percent. And Joe is clay soft? for cat's pas. It depends on how it's formulated. what's soft on cat's paws tends to be finer. So for the reference point is sand, I suppose, any clays that are bigger than that are going to be more awkward for their pores. We've heard about clumping and not clumping. Let's explain what that is. What is clumping Savvy? So a clumping cat litter if the cat weeez on the clay It actually forms a discrete clump and it gels together so the clump can be removed and then the rest of the tray remains clean. And you said Bentonite clumps Atappolgite not clump Atpolgite does not clump. Why? Bentonite it has a different structure and the sodium in the product creates the gelling action. Atapulgite is a different mineral structure, which doesn't enable that to happen. So we looked at Tesco's and Sainsbury's own brand cat litters. They say that they are both non clumping. They don't actually say what material they're made of I'm going to assume it's at a poolgite in which case.. The Bentonite cat litters have clearer labelling of what is inside and they advertise the benefits of clumping. PetEx's premium clumping cat litter, for example, say that the granules formmer solid clump that can be removed effortlessly with a cat litter scoop. Joe, it's this ease of removal that might encourage someone to use a clumping cat litter, isn't it Yeah, absolutely. If it comes down to clumping versus non clumping, every time I go with clumping, except with the caveat with young kittens or cats that eat stupid stuff for of a better phrase, that clumping action can also happen in the gut if they eat it and can cause an obstruction. So that aside, I wouldd always go for a clumping cat litter because that ability to form one solid lump sort of replicates the other solid lumps that you're ting out that cats produce so you can keep the cat tray so much cleaner. How often should the cat litter be changed out completely If you've got a non clumping tray, you wouldn't want to be keeping that full tray of litter for more than a couple of days. Whereas with a clumping cat litter, because you're able to remove so much of the solid waste, the rest of the tray is relatively good and it can last many weeks, but they often pee up the sides slightly and things like that. So you need to kind of make sure you're cleaning the rim, like you would a toilet powl, I suppose So Ella, listening to this, A you thinking clumping or not clumping? Oh I'm thinking clumping. Joe's preference as well. Yeah Yeah, yeah. Let's go on to the dust and the tracking. So I saw one Bentonite cat litter, Sanny Cat claimed to be no dust and low tracking. So Savy, how dusty or messy are these natural clay litters? And are the clumping bentonite ones less dusty? Not necessarily. muchuch depends on the packing process and how well they sieve out the cat litters fine grained bentonite cat litters, which are called ultras, they tend to be less dusty. But some of the cheaper products that you'll buy in the supermarkets, they actually contain quite a lot of dust. Oh interesteresting. And Joe said earlier that the finer the litter, the softer it could be for pores, so perhaps an ultra could be something to look out for Ella. Is mister Big pretty messy with the litter tray? He kicks it everywhere. Honestly. Yeah. And then you said that gets ground into the floor, right? So this brings us on to tracking nicely. Savy, does one track less than the other? The Mor dusty is the moral track. It It's directink ab correlation Joe is dust and tracking iss for the c From cat's perspective, they'rely down at litter heights. so the more dusty it is, the more they're likely to get it in their eyes, on their faces, in their airways. The same sort of applies to humans. every time you're tipping the bag out, if it's really dusty, you do have to be mindful that you're not inhaling all that dust. and some cat litters could potentially contain trace amounts of carcinogens on their own, they're probably not going to cause a problem. But if you're factoring that into your lifestyle choices, in an ideal world, you don't wantna be exposing yourself to huge amounts of dust if you don't have to, or you can't really. Yeah, I was reading about little particles of silica crystal that could be in the clay and that there are concerns around that. Crystalline silica is a thing to be aware of And in the clumping bentonites there tends to be quite a few particles, which are subten micron which are the ones which loodge in your lungs and can cause problems quantity in them is absolutely minute. In small quantities and as long as you're careful not to be just breathing in the dust, it's fine Moving on to odor control, which was something you mentioned, Ella, you want a less smelly litter. We saw some of the clumping Bentonite litters advertise odor control. For example, the PetEx Bentonite Litter say that it naturally quells unpleasant and unwanted odours without the addition of powerful scents Helful Joe The biggest thing from an odor point of view for me is less about the properties of the cat litter itself and more about the cleaning regimen of the human behind the litter tray. Ultimately, if you're scooping regularly, then that's the best odor control you can get. The other thing I'd say about odor is these scents like you know, lavender and baby powder. It's quite off putting for a cat. they wouldn't naturally want to dig in something that's not of baby powder. So these natural clay cat litters seem to be some of the cheapest that you can get. Atapolgite sometimes comes out a bit cheaper per litre than Bentonite, but aple guite is non clumping, so you're likely going to go through it quicker What do you think, Ella? Would you be tempted to switch to one of these? does sound like the simpler option do have a big question about the environmental impact of those clays. Well I'll put a pin in that. We'll get back to environmental impacts. Let's just go through all the different materials. That's natural clay litters done onto the manufactured cat litters Second category savvy, canan you explain a little bit more about what you mean by manufactured and what they can be made of? There are essentially two widely available manufactured cat litters. One is a product which is very similar to aerated concrete. It's actually made in the same way. You create these sort of aerated granules. So you've got tiny little capillaries which are left in the structure and that absorbs liquid into them. I've seen these look like white shiny rounded pellets. Part of their marketing is to say it's white, it's clean and looks nice in your kitchen. You've then got silica gel, which is the same as the little saches you might get in an electronics box say television. Do not eat. Do not eat? That's exactly right Ella, have you tried these? what was your experience like? I have tried these and they were very effective. Well, one of the most important for the cat was how it feels on their paores. These manufactured litters, are they comfortable for cats? The silicon gel is fine because it tends to be sort of round beads, quite soft, but in terms of the aerated concrete products, they can be quite sharp on the paores. Yeah, I think the ones I tried years ago, that was one of the factors that turned me off them from the cat's perspective. Let's talk about how you would rate the odour control of these manufactured cat litters, Sy They have additives in, which will ensure that bacteria that grows in the urine doesn't keep growing and therefore will reduce odors related to urine. Nhing reduces the odors related to catpoop All right, well let's turn to Savvy's third type of cat litter, on'es made of natural materials beyond clay. and let's see if you prefer one of these Ellts. So you said you tried wood and paper litters before. We've seen cat litter made from corn, peas, olive pits, and many more. How are these being turned into cat litter, Savy?enti generenally waste materials from other processes. so waste newspapers, sawdust coming out of sawmills, corn cobs and so on, so on, and they're mulched up, normally extruded or plletized in some way and then dried out and they have naturally absorbent properties. Yeah, it looks like some of these are clumping, others are non clumping. How would you rate the absorbency of these natural based litters so bestest f on the natural products that clump is some sort of gelling agent that they've added into the natural product because none of those natural products would naturally clump. In terms of the absorbency, none of them are brilliant. Re The wood pellets, they tend to fall to pieces and just as Ella said. Yeah, exactly. and then he goes through to the bottom of the tray and then you gets a sticky mess on the bottom of the tray. Paper again, level of absorbency is not great. And we keep coming back to comfort because that sounds like that's very important Joe, are some natural materials more comfortable for cats than others Some are much finer and closer to the more sand like texture, not the paper or the wood pellet ones because the very nature of the hard pellets is I liken it to standing on little pieces of Lego. But the corn based ones are more granular. Some of the nutshells and the olive pit ones are really quite fine. We talked about dust earlier and Savu said Finer grain is actually less dusty. How do these natural litters compare? They tend to be pretty good when they're packed. They do have a tendency to break during transport and being moved around, so they're not quite as robust if you like. And what about odor? Because some natural material cat litters make claims about this. The RSPCA have a litter made from wood pellets that they say has natural odor control What you reckon Savvy, C can natural materials provide good odor control In my experience, probably not. in terms of wood palettes, when they get wet, they release a nice smell. but if it gets saturated, it's going to soon lose that nice smell Sounds like just what you've experienced, Ella.. It seems like one of the main marketing hooks for lots of these natural material cat litters is that they are more environmentally friendly. Many of them reference coming from sustainable sources, whether that be wood from sustainably managed forests or from food industry waste, as you mentioned Savvy, like the pean millet in Catkin's scoop planet, Katkin also specifically mentioned the environmental impact of the clay litters. They say that they are strip mined which causes pollution, loss of habitats and erosion of natural landscapes. Is that the case? Yeah, so most the clays are just under theground, they are strip mined But the big advantage of the clays is they tend to be mined in places which are hot. So they actually just lay the stuff on the ground and it just loses its moisture. So there's no drying process. So the environmental cost of drying is a significant chunk to consider and also transport. How much does that contribute to its carbon footprint? With the clays, a significant amount Be it's coming by ship from Cyprus, Turkey, Senegal. So on balance, does that suggest that the natural materials, not the natural clays could have a considerably lower eco impact? You have to look at the source and the processing because you've got to take the natural product, you've got to make it into pellets, you've got to dry it, and generally you're having to use power to dry The source of the materials is extremely important. so you have to be very diligent to look at where the material iss actually coming from originally. That is a tricky thing to know, isn't it, Ella, as a consumer? Yeah, that is not going to be cleaar from the packet necessarily. Agreed. It isn't. Also, these natural materials were some of the most expensive cat lters out there, sometimes up to six times the price per litre of the cheapest Bentonite clay, for example So Joe, we've discussed their potential poor absorbency. We've discussed they could have better eco credentials, but you need to do some research on that Do you think a natural material is worth going for or could a cheaper clay do the job? It's really tricky. If you can afford a clumping plant based cat litter, I would personally for that bearing in mind what I said before about how clumping goes further. Yeah. Well before we wrap this up, there are just a couple of other topics I want to tick off. We did see some of the litters made from natural materials say you can compost them. Savvy, are some cat litters genuinely compostable? I would be very wary because of toxoplasmosis Tell us what that is Parasite is very common in cats Eggs, which are often in the feces can lay in for a couple of years. So have you put it into your compost Eentially the eggs are in there for a couple of years and then you're putting it into your garden. So for me, I just wouldn't We did see a lot of warnings on the back of the packets about how to handle used cat litter The cats at homeome litter say to wear gloves when handling soiled cat litter and to wash your hands thoroughly after. Ella, do you do that? Do you wear gloves every time I wear a poo bag over one hand. rightight? Which seems to do the trick. That's going works. That's a good idea, isn't it, Joe? Yeah, absolutely. Dog poo bags The lesser species no, not really. I think it' controversial. Dog lover as well don. And just to aw those same instructions do say that nursing and pregnant women should avoid contact with used litter and trays as should babies and young children due to infection risk Finally then, to flush or not to flush, that is the question. Some of the natural clay and some of the manufactured litters say that you should not flush them down the loop However, some natural litters do say that they are flushable. So Phelite's natural corn ultra clumping cat litter says it is flushable, but it does clarify that just refers to the clumps and that you should only flush one or two clumps at a time. So Savvyia are they basically saying that it's safe to flush the odd clump of catw but not cat poo. I think actually you're better off binning it. Two reasons. One is the sort of public health interest and the second is how' do you know whether your plumbing's up to taking a lump of cat that are down? To me, it's not something Well, our researcher fil has spent some enjoyable time looking into this subject pes. Hi, Hi see. What have you found We saw some water companies have said you shouldn't flush any cat litter even clumps, even if it's supposed to be quote unquote flushable. They say that's because of the risk of spreading toxicara slightly different from toxoplasma, which you just mentioned savvy, but it's still a small type of parasitic worm It can li in cap poo, it can't live in cap we Am I right, Joe it might be quite easy to pick out a clump of cat poo by mistake? It can be. And the question then Phil is what happens if a clump gets into the sewage system? Yes. So to find that out, prodroucer Kate and I reached out to a previous guest, doctor Pablo Campo Moreno from the Cranfield Water Science Institute. He was on our water filters episode. He told us that Toxicara, which the water companies mentioned isn't Currently an issue in the UK. The risk is from the toxicar eggs and the eggs, he says, tend to attach to solid waste in sewage, which the treatment plants can easily remove. We also asked about the other parasite you mentioned Savvy, which is tooxoplasma. and he said that in that case, the eggs are much smaller, they stay in the water rather than attaching to the solid waste, so that might be more of a risk onn this question of whether you should flush pet waste, he agreed with you saavvy. He gave a definite no. The only things that you should be putting in the toilet are the three pes, he said, pee poo and paper, toilet paper. Human pe, human poo and toilet paper. Yeah. Thank you Phil, and thanks Pablo as well Experts, it's time for the final question. Savi I'm going to come to you first because you're next to me in the studio. Rather than asking whether cat litter itself is the best thing since sliced bread or marketing BS. I want to ask which type ter, you think is the most sliced bread I would say probablyroably an ultra clumping bentonite and to ensure that it comes from a responsible source Same question to you. I would definitely say clumping. something that's finer, so softer on pores No added scent Low dust Eco and I feel that the best litters in my experience for that are some of the newer plant based products. Ella, final word goes to you and mister Big, of course. do What would you think still there? Well, mister Big would surely say this as well, but it's very important what the owner does. so removing those clumps nice and swiftly putting them straight in the bin I would be interested in trying some of the more expensive pe and Millet style ones, but I can also see that I'm going to be going back to cl and using that but just checking if at all possible to see where it has come from. Good on you. Joe, is it relatively easy for someone listening to switch their cat litter? I would always say introduce it gradually so mix it in with the existing one or add another tray because cats are so they like control and choice. Good tips. Well, with that I shall wrap up this episode of Sliced Bread, a big thank you to Savy, Joe, and Ella and Mr. Big for joining me. And if you're listening to this and thinking, Greg, I have a wonder product I would really like you to investigate Please do send it over, either on email to Sliced to Dot read at bc. co da UK or as a message or a voice note on WhatsApp two zero seven five for three three zer six eight zero seven Next time, what is the best type of food container to store your leftovers in? Plastic is the cheapest, but there are concerns around microplastics and chemicals transferring from the plastic into our food. How about silicon or glass or steel? Are they healthier for us? And what about their environmental impacts J'll be finding out. See ya This episode of Slice Bread was researched by Phil Sansom and produced by Kate Holdsworth and me, Greg Foot. Our studio managers were Kelly Young and Ben Cuthbertsson. 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