Dating Life and Personal Balance

Mazda has been named Consumer Report's saafest newew car brand. It starts with our approach. Every Mazda comes standard with proactive safety features so you're more aware of what's around you, more focused on the road ahead, and ready before problems ever start Masta, more of what matters most to you o to Masausa. com to learn more Consumer Reports does not endorse or promote any product. So you're saying with Hilton honors, I can use points for a free nights stay anywhere? Anywhere What about fancy places like the Canipay in Paris? Yeah, Hilton Honors baby, orr relaxing sanctuaries, like the Conrad and Tulum? Hilton honors Baby. What about the five star Waldorf astoria in the Maldives? Are you gonna do this for all nine thousand properties? When you want points that can take you anywhere anytime, it matters where you stay Hilton for the stay This episode of Smartless is sponsored by Ashley, the brand that just helped us turn a live event stage into a fully styled living space. Ashley is all about helping you create a home that reflects who you are with styles that balance timeless design and modern trends, and pieces built to handle everyday life with durable materials and easy to maintain fabrics For our live show, we were sitting on their modular M Max sofa setup that you can configure to however works best for your space. Plus we had oversized accent chairs and coffee and accent tables that really tied everything together. Let me tell you about the M Max sofa. We used it for our live show. It was so comfortable. I felt like I was sitting on a cloud. The worst part about it getting out of it. Ashley is all about style that's made for real life with white glove delivery right to your room of choice. Visit your local Ashley store or head to Ashley. com to find your style. So I booted up today and here's what I noticed. You you don't you just start talking, you hope an interesting thought comes into your head. That's where I find myself right now. So Ioted booted up and what I knowiced you start talking about booting up was gonna get you going. Yeah, it was just gonna trigger something for the cold open. Anything ever funny ever happened for you guys when you boot up. Look at this Oh he's wearing a boot. always still wearing his walking boot. Oh now we're into a fell association and it's improvven Yes and and yes and to an all new smartles Sartes. I apologize for picking my teeth I just got through a bunch of really leafy vegetables. Okay. So I might have to excuse myself mid mid mid record here You think Well, I mean want to go brush? Well, no. Why don'd you get some floss? I've got the little pick there I apologize you're having to watch you and whoever the surprised guest is, I apologize. You can't bear it until after you don't know If I have something stuck between my teeth, everything stops. Yeah, yeah. I'm kind of can't it's like It's like a bee is stuck in my car. I got I gott pull up. You gota be. You' gota be in your bunet. Yeah, you got to be in your bunnet. Hey, there's good saying. You should start that. You be in your b JB how's your new setup? J JB's in New York now How's your setup? prettyre good? It's good. I'm just I'm in the I'm in the hotel for a week and then I get the keys on Friday. So then I'll go over to the u art to Montte and and you'll be there for three or four months Yes. Wow, isn't it wild, and I just got back. I wild. I know, I should be playing I should be staying at your place. Yeah. by the way, why don't you? Too late, you Dick. You could you can invite now that I'm obligated to a fucking term lease. You know you could have done done that. But it it' been too off for you. I'm gonna be there. I'm gonna be there soon, JB. Yeah't. Why are going there? to be there Because life Beve brought Eve. U Yeah, maybe yeah, so I guess that's why I couldn't stay at your place. You've got a nice new fancy spot here, don't you I don't have I don't have keys yet Why? Because you're making advance here? You're in the middle of making advance here? No, no, no, no, it's a long's complicated but. I'm very excited. We're excited for you. I'm super jealous. You know how long I've wanted to live here. I know. Why don't you just get a little tiny something? Your second How many times have you had a place in Manhattan God Like like a place, not like a hotel, but a un you live there. I lived there for over twenty years, full time. Yeah. But that was just one spot, right? I mean, many different spots have you had here? Different o my god, countless you have more less than a dozen apartments. Count them. More less than a dozen apartments in Manhattan. Probably Pbably around a dozen Oh really Yeah, something like that close to it, if not that's not's not so jealous. You Sean The one have Sewn is your first. Is that your first? It's the first place I've owned, Yeahah for now six years you back ack in the day used to move around a lot, you know, like you'd live with roommates for a year and and then somebody would bail and so you'd have to move cross town. I used to be able to move in a tax one taxic cab ride. J just a couple duffle bags for real. And like stuff like a mattress, like a futon mattress in the trunk and then like go cross town and move back cross town and whatever. this is sad sad I remember I think finally back I used to live on twenty first street for years I was that last? I remember having I lived in this basically a studio. This is such a boring story, but I'm going to do it anyway. and fold up Phuton mattress I didn't have the frame So in the day, I'd roll it up in the corner justust a cushion on the floor like swoen yoga mat. imagine. Yeah. And then I'd have that and then I had like two pairs of jeans and two t shirts. and in. It was so it was so simple. Yeah. And there was just there was nothing, there was nothing. It was just I gott to say c But isn isn't one the isn't one of the greatest things about getting older is you don't move around like that. like that's it's just exa You don't realize when you're young, how exhausting is moving and moving and moving I you also become attached to more you get attached to more stuff as you get older too, right? Or do you get rid of it of that too You're like, fuck, where's some comfort? H all this stuff. Sun. Is that a new placement for the SG award, of which I bet you have many. Yeah. you don need to count As in the b count four SAG Aards. over count right Why don wouldt you count that? Yeah, but that's a new spot right over your shoulder. No, I don't know who put it there Iear I don't Okay Scott' taking it I'm taking it out Well let you find out with the mystery of who put the SG award in fr. But have you noticed that that people do that on their Zooms. They put awards in the background? Why is that? I'm more I'm still I'm still bothered about that TV behind you because it never gets viewed because it's in the worst Well, sometimes, sometimes it. Well, no, sometimes if this is my office and so I if there's stuff going on Okay, we can see the fax machine My God, he's really knocking down big deals over there. But it's just it's just the placement of it is so locked in. And then the ceating on the other side of your desk is so far away from. I know. I know. No, it's not that far. Anyway, when Scotty's got something going on, I come in here and I'll watch I don't need to explain myself to you. Okay, here we go, Ready? Watch this. Yep, sure. My guest today is smarter than all of us combined and practically half our age He started college as a pre med chemistry major because he was inspired by Sandra D Chug. anatomy. He was born in Australia, moved to Quebec, then to Colorado when he was nine. Later he moved to New York, got a graphic design job to pay the bills while doing late night improv and eventually walked into thirirty Rock. and book Saturday Night Live. Giving him seven seasons and five Emmy nominations. It's a hilarious, delightful Bow and Yang Oh my goodness. Doogie. What's up? B doogie How' I've never seen it. I have never seen that show. You're too young. You toong. I don't think I know. I've seen of it W Bowen's got you you've got awards behind you too. No, and you guys I know you guys must have Ben Franklin. That this is Ben Franklin. No, this is this is the partying gift they gave me at SNL. The makeup guys now readD scans of your face. Yeahah, that's Lauren. No, they doay not done on SNL Yes, he is Damn, it's okay, but we had a good time. We had a read just last year. I love this byy by the way There's a special quality to this. It's his Girl Friday, just you guys all overlapping. It's so cool. I know we're the worst We're the worst interviewers and we get a lot of shit because we interrupt each other all the time. People like, I wish they' shut up. We're like, well, this is what a conversation is, right? People don't get it What about on yours? You guys overlap I bet all the time, Or do you do it together? Last cultis We do it together now. We used to would do it we would do it very much on Zoom in years past, but now we're back to spatial, shared, whatever Studio. you guys are gonna like really Warsack test my shelves aren't you? I don't see this look Th about awards Mine are mostly glass, which I feel like are less legitimate than what you're aw because I could break. Well, let's go in the books. ye Bush Yeah. Oh really. I got a Kate Bush thing. Oh ye, I like Kate Bush. What do you got a home pod? Is that a home pod up in there? This is a Sonos. This is a sonos Oh got you. What's the gold one? The gold thing is a golden globe? It No this this is the newly redesigned Academy museum honor. a you to be You were there. I was there when you got it. I was there when you got it. Yeahah. No way. Congratulations. They used to be Thank you. but they used to be smaller silver Oscars statues And now they now it's a gold ice cream cone. I don't understand why they changed it. What's it for Vibes I excellent being for being great at what does S which is I don't know, I can anyone here describe what I say Se. I don't know if you know vibes. Sean w a Sean won a silver Fedora. Yeah look at that right behind him there for excellent cosplaying of Indiana Jones. That's excellent. And he was excellent at it. Bo and Yang, what what is what? Yeah talk to hang on a second don't ye me. I'm talking talking to Bo and Yang How dare you? That's so rude. Cool it just No. I want I want to talk to Bow and Yank l. I want to know why why how and why you moved around and what happened? We' just talking about moving around and then intros you and it's like being bed. like all over the place. All over the place. Why did I move around? No were parents. You were born and then you moved to Quebec and then and then what did I just You started in Australia, then you had to get the ye out of there for some reason Quebec, then Colorado. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Quebec, Colorado. No it was it was my dad's been at the same job for the past like thirty eight years he got his doctorate in Australia. So that's where my sister and I were born in Brisbane. Then we moved to Canada Montreal where I learned about Celine Dion, and then lear and then we moved to Colorado what did you learned about there? I learned about o, oh no, I moved to Colorado. I in trouble right now. tail end of I'm going get I'm going get in trouble. I moved at the tail end of the Clinton administration right after Columbine and Jhine Ramseay to Colorado. So as an year old like the whole Clon administration was about tail end. Let's be honest. Okay guys Hey wait Ben, Ben, how many years what how old were you then when you moved from Becauseuse I want to get into the Canada stuff obvly as a Canad. Yeah, Let's get into it. Yes. I would love to.. Eight years old. So I was I was hysterically sobbing being like, why are we moving to the place where people get killed? Like it was it was right after John Manay, who was Boulder. was and it was after like it was after all this this mess.. Wait, But this is interesting. I'm gonna tell you, Willie, because this this will prompt Bowen, which is your dad grew up literally in a straw and mud hut inner Mongolia, taught himself to read by Candlelight, got a PhD in mining explosives. What? That's right and then moved across three countries. That's crazy. You can go to school for anything. So he got a doctorate in blowing stuff up And blowing stuff up Yeah for out of quarries and such. and Yes. Well he loves to take it anywhere he wants, I guess. Sure. But when I love your explanation, I love your explanation. He loves it. He loves it He loves it. But like that, I guess you would I would want someone to be very credential before I handed keys to some explosives Right. sureure. ye. Yeah And then you went to when you go ahead. No, you go, you go. I was going to say this one relate to Will, you went to you were like bllown away by J for laughs, which is what a comedy festival. opponent. I was Punintended career. Yeah, really good. J career. will say There would be like threeet street performers. What? What? Jason? Noason Jason lang cure I love I love Montreal. So do w? Montreal is a it's phenomenal city truly Ituly. I mean like people say Portland has the best strip clubs, Montreal had the best strip clubs. and I could have I had the authority to say this as a child. you drive through them on the way back from Chrinatown into the suburbs and you would pass by the strip clubs and they were just they had great lights Vanver was pretty gifted for the ballet as well. Don't you drag that shit into Yeah? No raise your arms right there just outside the airport there Rise your arms. Nobody does a peeler bar likerill. No peelers. He Anyway. So what were you inspired by it just for laughs Like what What's the first thing you saw? You're like Oh the la The laugh I heard the laughs. There would be like street performers and they they still have that, but like it would be free street performances and it would be the most like back crazy cooky stuff, like a mime who like pulls something out of his ear like I don't it was just like clowning plus. Oh ye. like how about jokes? I don't know. it was just it it just didn't have to make sense, you know? like ye. it was that and then So Montreal was what ages to what ages? Sorry. It was no, that's okay. It was three two nine ree to nine and then to Colorado. And then to Colorado, nine to seventeen. Yeah. And seventeen to what was where New York and seventeen to now has been N York. Oh wow Tmorrow. I'm sad team. Is that When people ask me, where are you from? I don't know, you're not sure look at Stolen Valleor if I say, Well, if I say, o, Colorado and then Canada before that People are like, and then I tell them what years I grew up there, they were like, Ohh well, you should just say Colorado. And I'm like, yeah, but Developmentally, like those Canada years were important to me. Well how much, but really, I mean for any of us, how much do you remember before nine years old? Not I remember it Yeah. Just a lot of screeching tires. Not all of us had to black it out, man. You know what I mean? Yeah Jakeie Bates. Jakeie was trying to learn how to die on this at a littleittle house of the Prairie and getting notes on a little less on the dying. Jake. Okay. Jakeie Bates with this bowl cut. Have you ever seen photos of Google Jason when he was a kid He's so fucking cute. Yeah. It's unbelievable. And you can see him on still get there in action and he's gott to die. Pull up our overalls. Hey Pa. Hey Pa. No, but I think most of what shaped me happened once I got to California, which was seven till now. I mean, you know, I remember snow and things like that in Saltake City, Boston, New York, in the ages before, but nothing really shaped who I am before then, R? Sure. I mean, so I nothing Well, I mean, not as much as, you know, your Colorado years. You know, nine to seventeen. I mean, that's that's the whole cookie right there. I mean, Jason let's be honest. liivving in L.A from, you know, eighteen and through your twenties, you saw a lot of snow then too Let be fucking porsche peeling out of Warner brothers fkingak peak full of snow. J comes wake at Oh we had fun. Oh we had fun. So Bowen, how do you go? So premed chemistry? is that right? that? Yeah, it was it was I was I was taking cover behind it. Re because I was I was looking at colleges and I was like purely motivated by like what the comedy scenes were there. Okay. so it was between like Northwestern and NYU, yeah So you but you so you went with the with the intention to pursue comedy under the guise of pre med Pretty much. Is that what youre saying Yeah really were we were just we were just talking to Colin J about this Yeah, R right? whereere he was similar Yeah sos he's going into Harvard studying, was it econom Economics. And then he decided to just sort of tack over to comedy. When he's sitting at so you could go to Northwestern or like you had you had the skills, the academic qualifications to really get yourself a career that you could count on, a nice healthy base salary and some longevity, etcetera. But you were like, no, no, let's go with comedy. That's what I want to put it all in on, huh? Terrible. terrible. I mean I mean, thank God it works out. Terrible. But who's laughing at now? But interesteresting, yeah. Yeah, you're killing it. So it all worked out ' I was interested to ask Colin about that, and I'm going to ask you the same. It was Go ahead I feel like with Harvard It's Like the lampoon is like kind of institutionally there, you know what I mean? I feel like with NYU is like now I feel like Especially at SNL, it's like, o, NYU is sort of the pedigree Where whereas like, I don't know, ten years ago was more Harvard Bing Oh. Oh, really. R? I don't know So that that was part of the thinking is because did you end up going to NYU Yeah. Yeah. So then that was you thought of that as possibly a feeder for SNL. SNL was a goal SNL was never the goal. SNL was like too too far out of reach, but I been like what ended up happening was like from Our little k at NYU our coterie of like freaks and weirdos were like being raptured up into the the SNL spaca And then we were like, oh wait. So now we have like we have our little our little canaries or whatever. I mean, it sounds nefarious, but well were you it does sound it sounds like you're hiding something, but do you do you were you doing what were we doing you?ere we doing stand upp? Yeah, you you see were we doing This was were I was going to NYU right after these boys from Derek Comedy had just sort of like stormed the scene. It was Donald Glover and like DC. Pearson and Dominic Direris. L Rachel Bloom was in her senior year. Steph Shu was doing sketch comedy there. it was all of these like people who were like, oh, there's something special about them then But at the time, you couldn't say like,, well, we're all gonna make it big, you know? It just wasn't You just did what you loved. You could never say that out loud. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it sounds so annoying when people ask you like, would you have any advice? And I'm like, if you can be at the right place at the right time, but there's never any way of knowing. Yes, that's a great point. Were you doing anything simultaneously to sort of you mitigate your risk, you know Yeah studying anythingthing else Studying. chemistry volunteering at Bellevue at Bellevue Hospital, the ER at Bellevue where I got fired because I had to like because I I like I added like ten minutes to my time chart or something. It was like they were they were serious as a heart attack, so to speak. Like they would not let anything slide. We'll be right back Who doesn't love graduation day? we looking hats, tassels, real avant garde stuff, right? But seriously, getting your degree is a huge accomplishment. And with southern New Hampshire University, it's actually achievable. Over two hundred online degree programs, low online tuition, no set class times, real support from real people every step of the way Wow, SNHU really was designed for your success. You know, a cap and gown might actually look good on you Head over to snhu. edu slash smartlist to get started Great news for comedy TV fans Every episode of the Hulu original series, Alice and Steve is streaming on Hulu From the producers of Baby Reindeer, best friends, Alice and Steve, see their world implplode when Steve starts dating Alice's twenty six year old daughter. When the once rock solid friendship turns sour, these best friends make the best enemies. Watch every episode of Alice and Steve on Hulu and Hulu onn Disney pllus for Bundle subscribers. Terms apply You know on Smartlist the guess is a surprise, but Where to get an oil chain shouldn't be? huh We all know someone who ignores that little oil light a little longer than they should For the rest of us, there's take five oil change. Pull in, stay in your car, and be done in about ten minutes. They check everything. Eplain what you need and what you don't. Don't let an oil change interrupt your schedule Visit takeake five dot com slash podcast and save up to thirty percent And now back to the show This is really interesting when I read that at NYU when you're chemistry premed. That's because of Sandra O. you were a huge fan of Sandra O on Gra's Anatomy. And then what happened, which I think is hilarious. and hererma character not a bit That's not bad's not a bad. It's not a bad. And her character name is Christina Yang. Christina Yang and then thenraz It's like the classic like your wires getting crossed where I was like it wasn't that I wanted to be a doctor because I saw her. It was because one I wanted to maybe act and to because I was a gay man worsihiping an actress's work, like it it was just those two thingsead a one two punch. a one two It's one two punch. Yeah. and Yeah. But chemistry, but chemistry is is is not is not is not medicine. You're not going you're not going to You't study medine So we like what could one what are you saying, Jason? Let's hear your thoughts on chemistry. I want to know what kind of career one can anticipate with a chemistry degree So it's funny. L back in the day, the word industry to me meant didn't mean anything Hollyw would have meant Oh, like you're working in industry job in chemistry, which means you work for like Pctor and gamble or something. You you like to devel deodorant. Do. R Do. Yeah.. make you make these like you make pharmaceuticals or you make like That was a genuine interest for you. you were gonna pursue No. No, it wasn't. It was not genuine at all. It was chemistry was because it was the path of least resistance to getting Finishing my credits, there was no like actual interest in it. I mean, I know some was a subject you had a handle of. L you'd I struggled greatly with chemistry Yeah it's not simple. On the bus. On the bus, Yeah on what On the bus.it, nobody registered any shock on that. It was silent I wasn't looking for shock. Ben, Bowen, you never had the Feds. You never had a knock at the door of the Feds for the kid who's a chemistry major whose dad who iss involved in exos You didn't get aqu. have You didn't have trouble traveling. Sure I'm on a list. Oh no, you're right. I never thought of that, Will. I mean, but I want to just say all the crazy SNL stuff. So you were like I read you were like me when you were a kid, you would sit in your room or with your family and do the bunny ears on the TV and look get SNL et ceta. I used to do that and watch it by myself in like one of my brother's rooms because nobody was around And and then and and and then Sandra Oh ends up posting the show, right Where where everybody sorry? Where' everybody And then and then your sister introduced you to SNL. And then you were you were voted senior most likely to be on SNL. in your high school? Be that was that was like the florid sort of like embellished language for the ar suuperives. It was like instead of like class clown, it was like most likely to be on SNL. R right. Yeah. But there's so many I was senior most likely to trip a graduationess But there's no did you Yeah, I did actually. On acid or shrooms. comeome on guys they'll be alive. Let's look alive. Let's lookive No, but I just think that's so wild. and so you watched it Y your sister said, then you got voted for it, then you went there and then Margaret Cho was there when you were there's so many arrows pointing that you were going to be on the show. It's just crazy. I guess. I guess. And then But then so when the audition happens, does all that stuff flood in and you feel the stakes and the pressure of it? orr were you kind of indifferent? But let's figure out like how did that audition happen and then that feeling? Like what was the yeah, how did you get into the machine Speaking of Just for Lughs, that used to be the pipeline. the talent people would go to Just for Lus in the summer, and they would pick other people I u never made it to that stage. And so I was like, o, I guess it's not in the cards for me. but then like my manager at the time said together tape five minutes, like the standard whatever entry point. and I was like, they'll never, ever fucking higher and a feminine Asian guy like on that sh. likeike why would they ever need that Um, So on a lark, I was like, no one's ever gonna to see this tape. So let me just like fuck around and do what's funny for me. and then somehow slip through. That's freeing though. That's freeing. for everyone. Yeah. That must have been you must that feeling of like fuck it, like kind of going to what Jason was saying, like that feeling of you're doing it and being able to like do it without a net because you just don't sexy But you' care. sexy's a sex indifference.. It's a sexy indifference as Jason likes to say rightight? It must have felt really good being able to just kind of Yeah, what this thing? Okay, I think I'm talking to the right people, but I just read this somewhere. I don't really have any knowledge of it, but it's that thing that like It's like not the yips, but it's like golfers have this when they're a little too focused on the swing. They just like lose all, they lose all prowess, they lose all capability Yeah. It's when you're like, not in flow state, but it's when you're not thinking of like the micro decisions. It's when you're like, who cares? Right Figure skaters have this. It's like athletes have this. oververall. we're pretreend like no one's watching. Rondo P. Hondo P and I Hondo P guysys, how young am I? But but but But it is true. I do think about that all the time. You think about well literally in Gulf, they talk about like gripping too tight. But there is that notion of gripping tight in life on any of that stuff. And when you do that, that's what I meant. You must have felt really Like God, I bet you that was such an advantage because everybodyse is doing their tapes and they're so tight ' they gotta get it right M Yep And I wasn't, I didn't really care, you So so this I read, and hopefully this is tragically hilarious and not just tragic. If you want to talk about it, we don't have to. But I'm fascinated by the fact that your parents sent you to conversion therapy in Colorado when you were seventeen, which was hilarious. mean That's why was. Yeah. I like there's some comedy, probably a lot of comedy from the how horrible that was, yeah Definitely because well because there was eight wee so so so the comedy begins and the whole sort of occasioning of it, which was the ultimatum. So like I don't come out. I like and discovered to be gay based on the family computer. Remember those? It was like my parents going on the family computer being like, Boen, what's this? Oh theyult ty diriry picture. Going through your search, your search history. It was It was a chat window. It was a chat window. We gotta close those Bowen. You gotta close. So we're sharing there's a family computer we're all sharing. Is that what it was? Wow. Exactly. because you just walked away to get a cooke to get cocaine. Yeahins cocaine.. And didn't close your window I didn't close my windows. mom prints it out. prints out the transer. Oh God w. How old are you? Oh God. seeventeen. Okay seventeen. And so she shakes the paper in front of you and says Tescase? She said Tescasee. And you got to put a little bit more cribic on Pan So guano. She and then it was crazy. and it was like it was be becoming I'll be coming home to my parents sobbing at the dinner table every day. and I was like, I have to make this right. Like how could I cause this much pain? And so the ultimatum was, it gets funny, I promise. The ultimatum was Either you stay in state in Colorado, you go to Boulder, live with us. O You can go to college with your sister if you go to conversion therapy punchline is my sister was at the gayest school in the country, NYU. Oh wow. So I was like, sure, you'all do the conversion therapy. It was eight weeks in the summer and it actually became like great bonding time because it was in Colorado Springs, two hour drive up and down from Denver My dad and I would like bond in the car and just like actually get to know each other for the first time as like adults or something. And then the guy is such a quack that like by like the eighth session whatever. Like we're going through like Some Diluted version of like cognit behavior therapy where he's like trying to put in my body. Like anytime I've been attracted to a guy, like it was because you were miserable. It wass because you were like in pain and I'm like, yeamn it. But no, no, no. then the last m this makes me sick. Yeah, yeah, yeah It is what it is. So the second to last session, my dad is asking him for referrals in New York. He was like, B' we going to New York? Do you have anyone there who does this kind of work? He's like, sure, I'll come up with some names next time. The next at the last session Stonewall. Yeah, go to Stonewall and go to go to pieces in the West Village. He The last session he like walks me, he starts to go into this anecdote in the third person of at one of his former patients. And he's like, yeah, my former patient just gets off the side of the road in San Bernandardino, which is not where you want to be late at night and his car broke down and then he goes to a denny's and then the wait' making eyes at him. and then and then my therapist starts to shift into the first person. And then I was like, am really am I really gonna have sex with this guy? And then I did. And then he caught himself shifting into the first person. Oh my God, oh my God. And then blood the blood left his face and then in that moment it was like, oh, I've just undone all of this work that we've this like fake phony work that we've been doing for the past eight weeks And then I was like, wow, none of this was real. I walk out. voice comes out And he pulls out a little piece of paper. He's like, so I couldn't find anyone in New York who does this, but there is a guy in Trenton, New Jersey And then and then my dad and d I I used to date him. But my dad and're like, Ohh, Iess say, yeah, you know, I'll take the train out to Jersey to see this person. J just trying to like, just trying to like swap this away. I was like, there's no way I'm ever gonna continue this. And so I was like in the closet for like a year at NYU, But then like all these comedy These comedy nerds that I was friends with were like, you're gay. and then by sophomore year I was out. So it all but but Bowen, look, we're not talking about the fifties here. We're talking about just a half a Yeah a dozen years ago. And it sounds like you and you're in Colorado, which is progressive Yes And you're great friends with your parents, it sounds like. I mean,ly notwithstanding the fact that they that they want you to go through conversion therapy, you're still like getting along with them and you're driving and you're bonding with your dad and blah, blah blah How I don't understand how all this can sort of match because at what point didn't you at some point say, ye, no no, guys, I am gay. I'm happy. you love me and you're happy with me. And like, why are we trying to convert anything? Right They it's not really a religious thing for them or it wasn't. Like I think for them it was just this cultural thing coming out of the time you know Yeah ye. Yeah. well, not even it's not even on a political alignment. It's just them thinking like, oh, I don't want my child to have a worse harder life and sure sure For them, like they, so like what my dad kept saying to me was Speaking of like the straw mud hut sort of ethos. He was like, where where I grew up this This doesn't happen. Like there are people like this. and I was like, no, there are they just, they just had no concept of it and so they are Both scientists and engineers, they think in terms of solutions. They think in terms of what can be done to change this. And understand. I read when I read you said your dad will still occasionally suggest you could try women and you call them almost endearing homophobia. So sweet. Isn't it so sweet That's so funny. That is It's so nice. bless him. they have you guys had the conversations of like, I guess it turns out there was nothing to really worry about. Right that We've had Oh yeah. Yeah, great. I think we've we've done the we've we've patched it up really nicely. Like they have apologized. I have I've always kind of understood where they've come from. Yeah. Yeah It sounds like you had a lot of understanding of it. like even early on, like understanding that like you wanted to go to college, so you were doing it to kind of just go through the motions so you could go But it does sound like you I don't hint there's no hint of any sort of anger towards it. L like you were like, yeah, I get it. I know where they're coming from. That' Yeah veryy kind. That show thisirl to be honest. Yeah, yeah, I love that So I want to go back to, if you know There's never a subject that Sean doesn't want to get away from. more than every subject. He's got his quest. He's never happy where he is. He's always trying to leave where he is. I don't I We're enjoying Bowen. We're talking to him. We're having a real con. No, I know. lookook, if you want, we can talk about being gay all day long. No, I don't whatever. What should just go. Okay, so So the SNL screen says we've kind of covered that but I want to talk about You're so' first for first you were hired as a writer at such a young age, which is amazing. You weren't even on camera You were. And how old were you? twenty twenty seven. That's yeah. very reasonable age. That's pretty young though. Ecrusive. But and first the first time you were on camera, which made me laugh, the first I laugh so hard at you playing Kim Jong un It was so fucking so good. It was so fun. Are you laughing?gh Oh my God, I gotta find that. It was so funny. I mean, I loved it. And then and then the one the first thing that ever went super viral was you played the iceber the what was it? Yeah? The iceberg that think the Titanic. Yeah, the iceberg Titan. Yeah the iceberg is whichich is so funny. What was it like where tell me talk to me about being a writer and then going, hey, you know what? we think you should be a featured player. And you're Kim Jong un and you're this iceberg that hit the Titanic hit The same sketch? No, no, no What was in the same sk It was range on this sk. It was him all along. What was was the feeling like, oh my like how nervous were you to be doing the thing that you set out to do on the first time so nervous. So what what I remember from the Kim Jong un thing was it was when Sandra O hosted, as you said. Yeah, I was I was a writer and insane. Insane, insane. And so just insane, just insane inynchronicity. all thater. Yeah know. it's all very kismety. How was that conversation when you went did you go up to her at some point and say, hey, so I just gonna to tell you Yeah When I Did you tell her how much how you respond my son? Yes, okay, good. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I would like do these pre TikTok, I would do these things where I would just like just kind of match like on a lip flap level like the little like o my gover recitals and monologues. And I did I saw you lip sync the whole monologue from Devil Wars Prada. I did that. I did. Yeah. So like gott to see it. It's unbelievable. I've scrubbed them. I don't know why I'm like so ashamed to see them now. because they're so pre but it's incredible. I don't know they seem prehistoric me But anyway, But Sandra and I met before she hosted. And then she hosted. These other writers wr Streeter Sideel, writes me into the sketcher where I play Kim Jong un. I don't have contacts the time and they don't put my prescription in the glasses that I wear. And so I had to be off book basically, which is not what you do at SNL, as you guys know. Yeah. Like I just to be off book, I had to like caller I call a Korean friend Karen Chi, who used to write at Seth Myeyers. I was like, canan you translate these lines into Korean for me? learened the Korean, was off book on a foreign language.. Then it was just a million different things. And I had a sketch on that week that I had to be. I sat under the bleachers next to Lauren Michaels in the Kim Jong Un costume, getting notes I'm in this Kim Jong un costume and he turns to me he's like, maybe we put Kinun sooner or whatever I'm like, this is the most surreal. It's still the most surreal week of my life. The whispering angel my favorite ro. My favorite su on ice. Did you kind of my spend? Was it weird being all the years you were there just knowing that you were the smartest person in the world You're learning langages, you're me way. I mean, come on. No, no, no. I was no colin. I was no economics maner. He doesn't know know French and Korean. I to learn Korean and then memorize it. Okay, so wait now tell me about this. when you when you were fifteen, fifteen years old. You are doing improv B Oh yeah. Is that tr Yeah, But this is this is so that doesn't age well. I feel. I think that's fascinating. You got to How did do things. How did you get in like for for young people listening, it's like, oh, if you get doing like improv But how did you get into the bars What happened? So there's a theater in Denver called the Bovine Metropolis Theater. It took me years to figure out it's a play on cowtown. Anyway, Ba mine metetropolis, but anyway, would they would do like Monday nights, like kind of open mic situations and ur sponsor at the school who is also my calculus teacher, this wonderful educator named Adelgin. Calculus. I know I know. stop it you guys That's enough. So we they would it was awful. I don't know who Who let their kids go drive into the city. interesteresting. Yeah. But but it was great. It was embarrassing. like like we bombed constantly in front of people who did not give us shit if we lived like like it didn't matter if we did well. It was just about like It's that Chris Rockck thing I've just like bomb a million times and then right,, right,. Where did your sense of humor come from? I mean, your parents you say they're both scientists. but maybe are they super funny? I mean no. How did you develop it? Just watch It was guys, this is and I hope you guys can accept this or receive this. It's like I think it was like, do you remember like this is the value and like network comedies, right? It's like it was everybody like having the same frame of reference R as to what was funny. It was like it was watching you guys sorry to put you on a pedestal, but it was it was it was that Take your time through here. No go ahead. Don't finish. It was It was like to school. It was going to school the next day being like, oh my God. you Did you guys watch the rest of development? or it was like And Sean, like after I did this thing, so, Jason, my farewell sketch was with Cher. And I thought constant and I was conking back to Seaan, Sean and Cher together. And it was just, I like that's just like peak guest star Sh, I love startself was sure. Thank. Was that Was that a moment for you when when when Will and Grace really hit their stride and I mean, yes, there was there was a moment when Ellen came out. that was that was the big sort of watershed moment. But then Will and Grace, I believe followed that, Shewny. Yeah and was that did you feel a sense of like Well, there there may be a spot for me. I might be able to just light my hair on fire and say, yeah, I'm not closet about anything. There is There is room for me and us and et cetera. Yes I don't know if I got that far because I'm telling you guys, like I never I would have been if you'd ask me right as I moved to New York or like right out of college, if you'd asked me what my like ideal job was in showbiz, it would have been just to be in a room, just to be in a writer's room. Right. I never placed myself in those things and I don't know if if it's about you know, representation stuff. It was more just about like, I'm good just knowing the inner workors. I would like watch the Simpsons and like study the credits. likeike it was about that. was That was the granular kind of comedy thing that I was working was. But watching Sean, I think it was about Like, oh, this is the language, this is the vocabulary of like, or this is just a sensibility of what like gay queer humor is. And then it turns out it's And if I could do that and take what doing what Seanwn's doing and just dial it in half. S. S kind of f. Like you could just make it somewhat Palatable You know what I mean? And then you could I can only I can say that to the guy who's got four SG Aards and Emm's. don Shan, you are you you're like are you a are you an Academy awward away from an egot No, but I no and I'm an ET. your Tony and your Emmy And Berit and Olivier. so I have a towe Oh a sag in a sag. R? I toes. I toes. Saggy toes. I' saagedggy toes. Sggy toes We'll be right back Getting a good deal is kind of a big deal. 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Thank you, Quinince To elevate your summer wardrobe, go to quintince dot com slash smartlist for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's QuNcE d. com slash smartlist for free shipping and three hundred sixty five day returns quQince dot com slash Mmartless All right, back to the show Wait, Bowen, so but Jason, if you haven't seen it, his last Bowen's last sketch, his goodbye sketch was took place in a Delta lounge and it was with Ariana Grande and Cher. And it was so clever how you wrote it or how you and the writers wrote it, whatever. that your wife calls you and well, can I say? Yeah, yeah,. you said I forget what it was about, but it was Eggnog, right Yeah and you're and Ariana Grind was the Christmas show. Yes. Yes. And she says all the eggnag you've made over the years, some of it was great, some of it was rotten And you say, and a lot of it got cut and a lot of it got cut, which is which is really And it was very emotional. It was really clever. It was really clever to do a deelta lounge and you were it was really Like it was it's a little yeah, it's a kind of it's obviously like allegorical metaphorical or whatever, but I was like, oh, something about departures. Yeah at airport.ace. It was the Christmas show. It was like, oh, something about J got it finally. Jason got it. My God just takes me a bit. He's this old man who works through the Eggnox station and then he's like, oh like Egnog, it it's not for everyone, but the people who like it really like it. and they're my kind of people. And like that's that's like the whole message of it all. And then Share comes out as the boss. That was really fine. That is. What was what was talk walk us through the thinking about leaving and the approach to that, the decision to that, what the what the next five to ten years of your life looks like if you could program it and, you know, do you allow yourself to kind of make make plans and strategize a bit Kind of. Yeah I don't know. I feel like I can't plan around like Trade wins I feel like things are things are just uncertain. That is a great way to put it. Yeah You know. I love that expression. Yeah, that's really good. I've never heard that before. That's a fucking great way to. But to strangle the metaphor, you do got to put the boat in the water and point it one direction. you didn't strangle it you said. No Wh What island would you like to arrive? Yeah yeah. you know, like you want to do do you want to do, do you want to do you want to do just purely comedy? Would you like to get into drama? Do you want to do more acting, more performing, more what where where is your Where are you getting poulled right now? All of it. I honestly I'm sure you guys feel the same way. podcasting was never on the was never on the menu, but it's taken up a lot of space. in a good way I would love all of that. I think just to go back to like the trade wins thing, it's like, I don't I'm honestly like thinking about like where comedy lives right now, it's like I feel like even at like the Emmys, it feels like it's like relegated to this place, even though I think comedy shows have this like extra thing they have to do where it like has to present something optimistic. about the world. It's really hard to do that right now. I think. You know, It's like I don't know. I was just watching stuff I'm watching comedies and watching dramas sort of in equal measure and I'm like the dramas are amazing. I love the dramas. but I think the comedies have this extra thing to do where it's supposed to reflect something back at you and also be like a nice a thing that makes you feel good. Yeah. Well, first of all, there's there's a lot of, it seems to sort of this trend of a lot of pieces of material that's not necessarily comedy. that gets kind of, you know, grouped into that under that umbrella. and I don't know how much comedy you do watch. I find that These days I don't watch a lot of comedy. I don't know if you guys do. I really just don't. I don't know if I'm missing it or it's just not the thing for I don't know. You can probably tell by How boring I am No. Yeah, there's different It seems like there's different reasons why comedy is is not not a big thing not as a big thing as it used to be Um scripted, you mean like in that way. Yeah. yeah, yeah. it'ss yeah up for debate, but um, we need it now more than ever. One of the great one of the great I'm asking all of you wh What are the kind of the great scripted comedy things that are out there right now Yeah that you would want to come back Yeah back funny. Yeah. that's aboutad I mean, I love God. Yeah hilarious. comeome back. But even that even that's a little bit like bleak. like it's like, oh, this is the season' about AI and it's about how like The writ's rooms have like people in them. And it's like, whoa shit, like this is this is different than it was ten years ago when the last season was on. It's like it just it has these weird And it just has this weird mirror that like is sad to look at. and that's's hard. Right, right, right. What about I like talking about this, your dating life because you bring this down so the vibes are s. I like it. Oh what are you about? I love. Oh, you're really making me think, Bon. because Sean, before we get into the dating life, you're really making me think about that idea that like And we want to get your dily life in we have some graphs And five. And we also your mom sent us some print up We printed out some stuff, some charts, some chats. some of your options women. Some of the female options. But Willie, you know, but you But in a recent Esquire, but I read your Esquire interview and the What I've learened piece, when you were reflecting and you said About work, you said this is you saying it. You said, you feel like you've hit critical mass where you did too much too soon or something like that And you wanted to slow down and focus on quieter work. I get that, but just know that I don't feel there's millions of people that don't feel that way about you. like Yeah I'd take a lot more. Yeah. There's so much more you know Yeah, For real. I mean Drench me ang on J, your mic went out for a second. Where was that? Just so we can get it guys quiet. Let's get it clean. So rey. Oh my God Jason. I gotta say, Jason showing up to SNL was always like everyone was sort of straighten up be like Jason and I had a really nice intimate conversation. It was like everyone wass like, I think he's flirting with me. It was Jason' at Charm or? He to get up nice and close. That place. I love that place so much. I just watched that Lauren documentary. It was really cool. love I haven't seen it yet a lot. I'm very. So Bowen, because I've read this too and I want you to only want what you want. but That that you that you said it's impossible said it's impossible to date. during SNL and where you would go in a couple of days and then just vanished, like What's going on? I would vanish. I you would adment that on me. Oh I. Yeah, it's a self call in. Like I'm I just I would get swept up in the show and the word and like it it's just so hard to like any stake in your own life it felt like, But I think that's what I' say now It's impossible to do. Now now things are fine. like things are normal. I'm like still still like unlearning so many things in a way that like I I'm grateful for and I also mourn how my life used to be. Like I do miss it so much. I've been getting dinners and lunches with people on the brerakes and like who are still there and I'm like, oh, it's nice. And I have to say this because people are listening. It's okay to be single Wh saying it like that How are you looking at me? You know you know what I've never heard of, and again, this is a guy that lives in a this list is long. This list is fucking long. stuff that you've never heard of. It's not common to hear about Saturday Night Lve hookups and couples with the cast, right I mean, writers or a gay thing? I don't think it's a gay thing.ayraight It doesn't just in general. like, you know, like people who go to school together, like that that's all you have are just your classmates' sort of like, you know, I went out with him last year and this year. likeike you don't hear about that on SNL and you'd think that you would just based on schedule. likeike you don't have a chance to meet anybody else. Really? You guys are in there all the time We're in there all the time. Oh, but I thought you were talking about Jason like intra SNL hookups within SNL people. Yeah. Yeah. I mean castmates dating one another or a writer with a castmate or writers and writers You don't, right I know. I you think you. You're right. I just wasn't Yeahah, I didn't really encounter that but I don't don't I don't feel like I missed out Yeah No, not at all. I love that your Instagram handle is at Fay Dunaway. That's your name on Instagram I didn't know that until recently. laughed out loud at that. firstirst of all, I can't believe it was available. I can't either. and I'm holding onto it for dear life. She wants to, I think she wants it back. How much time does your podcast take from you each week? It siphons from me like six hours a week Yeah that bad Right. And which your fine. And with your other time, what do you what's what's the ratio between work pursuits versus personal, you know, just taking care of yourself How hard are you working B I'm working decently at like a reasonable intensity. I still I am exhausted at the end of the day. I think I'm still kind of like my nervous system is still sort of like resetting from SNL where just it just knows work is done, then it's time to go to bed. Like there was that switch. But you have to you have to now self program. like you there, there was a schedule. We had to be there a certain time, but now you've got to do it all. A you A you finding your self motivation adequate? not yet. It's getting there. How do you guys do it Well, I'm very good about when I'm c. When I'm working, I'm very, very disciplined. and when I'm not working, I could not be worse at doing anything responsible. Yeah. Jason's one of my favorite quotes is Jason says, I want to I want to aggressively do nothing Yeah And then and then when I'm working, I'm I'm an anim. Well, Well actually the truth is and I mean this when he's not working, he obsessively plays golf because it gives him something to do. Yeah. And so he so he plays it. So he plays it Five, six days a week And then they're to me like, Hey do you want to play tomorr? I'm, No, And he's like I've got like one thing, but I can't do it all the time. Like he has to do it because he needs that. I have addiction issues, Boen. I'm much better. I find I'm much better when I'm not working at being able to just kind of