Theories and Final Reflections

What's funny is I have all these quotes on my mirror, things that I try to hold in my heart, but every once in a while I'll also write like a joke idea. Oh cool. So right now, my mirror says like what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? And then like right beneath it It says planlan B Pill, but for food They have that. It's called Xlax. Oh my God This is an IiHart podcast Guaranteed human If you've been sitting on an inspiring business idea, consider this your sign to take action and make it official by creating a website using Wakes harmony Tell Wix Harmony what you want and it will build the entire site for you That's right, all just from your own text prompts And of course, everything can still be edited by hand if you feel the need for distinct specifications. I mean It's your website, your call. Try it at wix dot com slash harmony. That's wix dot com slash harmony. When it comes to looking your best, beach bum tanning does it better. Beachbum delivers advanced sun and spray tanning, luxury skincare, and an elevated salon experience designed around you. It's why so many guests trust Beachbum for flawless color and real confidence And now Beachbum is expanding wellness services to many locations. with red light therapy and infrared sauna, with more on the way. recharge your body, refresh your skin, reset your day. Beachbum isn't just hanning. It's full spectrum wellness. Visit beachbum dot com to find a location near you. Discover a spectacular island destination with crystal blue seas, endless sunshine, and the cool Bahangian breeze Baham Mar, located in Nassau Bahamas offers your choice of three luxury hotels, the richly refined Rosewood, the playfully hip SLS, and the stylishly modern Grand Hyatt With over forty five restaurants, bars, and lounges, Bahamar serves up delicious dining from world renowned chefs like Daniel Balud and Marcus Samuelson, nightlife venues like the newew John Batesee Jazz Club, and the Caribbean's most luxurious casino. At Baahamar, you'll find every pleasure under the sun, and one of a kind experiences for the entire family, like Baja Bay, our fifteen acre lush tropical water park Interactive wildlife experiences, including our daily flamingo parade, world class golf, tennis, spa, and so much more. Visit bahhamar. com today and discover a vacation destination where memories are made for a lifetime Bahamar, life spectacular Welcome to SnnaFoo. The podcast about history's greatest screw ups. I'm your host Ed Helmms. Each episode. I'm joined by a guest and we dive into a wacky story from history And along the way, we shoot the shit and wonder why humanity keeps Keeps fucking up so badly. My guest today is stand up comedian podcast host and voice overver artist, cartoonist You might know him from his fabulous HBO show, Cashing H New Yorker cartoons, his podcast, you made it weird his book comedy seex God or The Pete Holmes show, which I just spoiled who it is. It it's the wonderful and the fabulous. deear old friend of mine, Pete Holmes, welcome, Pete. Happy to be here. And I don't think you broke the rules of an intro. You can do that You can say from the Pete Holes show without being like, whoops I blew it. I can't I'm say I think you can because what you're touching on is performers, like if you do a gig, which I'm sure you do from time to time NBC calls in for a favor. They want Ed to give a golden chocolate key to Peta And you have to be there. The intro is typically awful and they'll be like, Ed Helmms is our esteemed speaker and it's like there's nowhere to go from Yeah. right. You can't say the name first. No and' That's always a corporate mistake. You can't unwrap the present for your kid and go and it's a bike. But you're telling me I can't. I am allowed to say the Pete Holmes show can, but you did it perfectly Be you said it at the end. All right, Yeahah, there you go. Thank. There's like a little who it is him. I used to MC a lot when I was first starting out in standup and I learned that rule very quickly that like the name comes last. all last. It doesn't even matter the context. You could be like giving a medical presentation at some the esteemed professor Yeah Yeah and always Garsgard. Well, you know, speaking of MCing and we will get to the premise of this show, but as a daily show fella I would be MCing and John Oliver was there. And he would say please, if you say from the Daily showh Say my name right away. Don't say John. Oh right. Yeah. Yeah. Oh that's what I mean it was Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you would go out to around to say my name right away. R away right away. Say my name right away. R say John and then pause Yeah because they'll think it's Stuart. Yeah. Oh that's so great. Here's something that I am not familiar with in your background and I don't know how significant it is, but I like it a lot. And this is the cartooning like what what is what role did that play? And you did have some lished in New York. So first of all, kudos, that's very, very cool. Thank you. And second of all, I've often wondered this in what format do you submit It's a great question. I think at my level, which was the new guy, I would turn in twelve to ten to fifteen Finished like pieces because they I wasn't Jack Ziegler. I think if you're Jack Ziegler, it could be more of a sketch and it's like this is the gag But they needed to see that I could do the art. I'd go to the Cony Nast building. I'd have my roughs Then I would go to the Xerox machine And I would photocopy them with the contrast kicked up. So the blacks would be really black and the whites would be really white. and it would look about a thousand times better. And I would print the caption in the same font that the magazine used in Italics just to make it look like I all All of that is unnecessary.ure. I was just, you know, I'm twenty five. I'm looking for like legitimacy Yeah. So I made them look as much as I could like a New Yorker cartoon. The New Yorker was had a very sort of like Uh meaningful place in my household. This is so cool. My grandmother in Nashville, their kitchen was wallpapered with New Yorker covers from like the forties and fifties. It was like Playboy for culture. A set of boobs you saw like a story from like a brilliant author or whatever It's like New York, the city Yeah accepted you. hundreds of cartoons that I had drawn at that point. and I was like, I've always wanted to submit. I did it for over a year. so that's over five hundred submissions and they hadn't bought one. Wow. And the first time I sold one. The cartoon was a guy in therapy. And he just has a vacant look on his face and the therapist is taking notes. and he says, I think I accidentally suppressed my good memories which is just so New York. It's so New Yorker. It's New Yorker. It's you laugh a little. It's like a subway polite laugh. you're not going to disturb anyone on the subway with this. Just a chuckle. And when I sold my first one, I was living in Park Slope, I woke up Uh like super early, it was still dark and walked to the newsstand and bought Like several copies cool. It was a thrill. What a thrill. That's so so cool. I'm proud of twenty five year old Pete in that moment. That's really sweet. Well, hey, we got to get into this snafoo. I could talk all day about that. I know and your amazing your really wonderful career and all the cool stuff you've been doing. But that's a different podcast. Today's snafoo is an interesting one because But I came into it with a little bit of a head start because I starred in a freaking movie about this snafu. In twenty seventeen. Now I know you have my entire filmography memorized. So I'm gonna give you one guess. do you know any idea what movie this is? I'm just gonna name Ed Helmms movies. Cedar Rapid. That's like two thousand seven. I was in a movie in twenty seventeen called Chap Aquitic And it is I didn't know you were in that. Yes. Jim Gaffigan and I sort of play u Ted Kennedy's or sort of like the two guys that are that go through this whole thing with him. It's a tragic, it's a messy, deeply controversial incident from nineteen sixty nine. I mentioned Ted Kennedy, of course. he's played by Jason Clark fabulously in the movie. I actually play his cousin Joe Gargan, who we will meet in a bit And like a lot of snafoos, this is just a a lot of bad decisions were made and things went terribly. C I say Ed, I'm thrilled. I'm from Boston. So I'm from New England. I don't know this story. Oh, great. All right, this is perfect. And I should. And you're gonna have like more like probably some better insight, especially into the sort of Kennedy context. Yeah Being a Bostonian. So first a quick explanation of the word Chap Aquitic. It's the name of a small quiet island right off of Martha's Vineyard, which is a large island right off of Cape Cod in the great state of Massachusetts.ation. Yeah. Where in Cape Cod We would go to Cape Cod and we would take the island queen, which was a fairy to Martha's Vineard. Perfect to spend the day there. Yeah. And which town do you remember? In Martha's Vineyard? Yeah Uh Chap Chap something. Chap just kid. Well, Chapaquidick' interesting because it's not a town that you that that most people go to or it's not a town. It's an island and it's and it's It's a little bit off the beaten path. Its It's chappy to the locals. It's known for its secluded beaches. Chappy dirt roads, very low key old money summer vibes. It's beautiful and remote and about as far from chaos as you can get, which makes what happened there in nineteen sixty nine all the more unsettling. Martha's Vineyard is a really nice, I think, very diverse mix of vacationers from all different backgrounds. There are enclaves within Martha's Vineyard that are just real old money, like like really really wealthy. And then of course Chap Aquitic has so few homes on it, but it does have a number of, but they're more sort of cottagey. And some of that is also very old money, but it's sort of like low key old money. Do you know what I mean? It's that that it's like the billionaire who wants kind of a windswept cottage instead of like a mansion Let's pivot to the Kennedys here. Of course, most folks are familiar with John F. Kennedy in his phenomenal career and legacy, a president, of course, but the youngest brother of the Kennedy family was Edward M. Kennedy, nicknamed Ted, born february twenty second, nineteen thirty two in Boston, Massachusetts And he was the youngest of nine children. That's right. Yes, nine, which is a lot. How many in your many how many siblings re You're one of twoood old fat Protestant. Well it's funny, My my parents were Catholic. I don't know why they didn't have more kids. I guess after they had us, they werere like, that's enough. Yeah, That'll do. Yeah. But arere you the younger? Are younger? I' the younger. Yeah. Same here. I'm the youngest of three. and I think we both we're both that kid that they're just like cut it off, cut it off I looking I'm doing like a streak on the Ta. this kid's paying out. We got enough show. We're out, we're done So the roster of Kennedy kids included Joe Jr., the eldest brother, off course, John F, Rose, Kathleen, Eunice, Patricia, Robert, Jean, and then good old Ted. Here's a nice vintage photo of Teddy. This is not a childhood photo. I just w to be clear There's gimlets just off camera. Oh yeah. they' They're tr Pickled on. Like I don't know this story and I actually don't really follow the Kennedys So I wasn't even making Ted loves to drink. I think he's also just of a generation that that's sort of where I was going. Yeah. Like pickled onions and little vodkaes are nearby and cigarettes. This was I have photos of my dad exactly like this Yeah, of course. And he was trashed a lot Which back then, like you just were like, hello 's Good to see you, Irene. You know what I mean? Exactly. like anybody at that level of drunkenness now, you'd be like, I shouldn't be here. They' totally. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how they did it. because like the hangovers alone are just like, I don't know. I don't even drink anymore just because I can't handle it.'t know because of it just I have an old joke where I was like in the wild West, for example, You know how they're always drinking whiskey? I'm like, you're in the desert. Yeah. This is why you're shooting each other. You're dehydrated. Like get some water You That's how I feel about this time. These guys were eating red meat exclusively, maybe a wedge salad in blue cheese. that was like, what are you a healthnut? Yeah And like seven vodka gimlets and a cigarette Before the meal. I just imagine how how anipated they were all the time. J not like they have a lot of fiber in these diets. Past the age of seven, none of them had a glorious BM No. So we got to keep going Born february twenty second, nineteen thirty two, Ted was bred for American politics and high society. Now I'm talking Harvard, then a quick stint in the Army, nineteen fifty one to fifty three, then back to Harvard, then University of Virginia Law School. Now this resume is looking very respectable and on brand for society's upper crust at the time. Then in nineteen sixty two, he was elected to the US Senate, stepping into the Massachusetts seat, his older brother John F. Kennedy had vacated after, you know, becoming president of the United States. Did your parents breed you for anything? All the aspirations they bred you for? shouldould I stop using the word breed? nameed brered. He was basically brered. He was a throm bre The shadow You're taking a chair that John F. Kennedy. Also, their father Joe Kennedy was a b just a crazy intense motherfucker. like Oh really. There's a great biography on him, but he was like he was a Hollywood producer. He was in the He was kind of mafia related. and then he became obsessed with sort of raising his children to become sort of citizen activist politicians. Is Tiger Woods Like when you breed a child to like do a certainertain thing or the Jackson five or whatever, like it was that level of like you're going to be upper crust basasically it was? Yeah. And then and he saw I think he also was involved in bootlegging at some time. So he was like he was dodgy, but he sort of knew the lane that he wanted his family to be. and he became an ambassador, I think, to the UK. Anway His story is wild and he just became this grand puppeteer of Massachusetts politics. So Ted certainly made his time in Congress count as he backed some genuinely consequential causes. He championed the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four. He supported the Economic Opportunity Act to fight poverty, and he helped usher in a national health center system in nineteen sixty six. These guys were very progressive, especially at the time. all the Kennedys were people all over liked Ted. He was charming. He was easy to talk to. He was passionate. He was able to forge relationships across party lines to get shit done. He eventually died in two thousand nine with a reputation as the lion of the Senate. That was sort of his nickname because he got so much legislation done over the course of his career. But being a Kennedy, you know, it's a lot of luck, it's a lot of privilege, and it's a lot of legacy sort of carrying you forward But also Ted lost three of his older brothers, Joe Jr., the oldest died as a pilot in World War two in nineteen forty four which was that was the first Kennedy. ath President John F. Kennedy of course assassinated on november twenty second, nineteen sixty three then RFK who really was beloved and really was like peopleeople were so passionate about him and working hard for him. and he's actually his shadow is sort of cast over Chap Aquitic in an interesting way that we'll get to. But he was a former attorney general,ual Democratic presidential candidate and he was gunned down on the campaign trail on june fifth, nineteen sixty sixty eight. So Teddy Kennedy has lost three older brothers All to violence, right? I mean, even being downed as a pilot in a war is a violent demise, this of course led to the Kennedy curse as a concept. You know, thought, Oh, the Kennedys there's a band named the deead Kennedyys, of course. Oh yeah This is Do you believe in curses, Pete? Are you a curse guy or you I believe in the human mind's obsession with finding patterns. Oh getting meaning. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. But also our ability to kind of like manifest Yeah things that we believe But ye about with you. You just hit the nail in the head reallyally what we're good at. And I think to a fault pattern recognition and we ascribe patterns to things where they just aren't That's absolutely true. And that could be interpreted as a curse. It is a curse. I would actually get incredibly liberal with this saying it's not just that curses ripple out and change the course of history. Everything ripples out and changes Human history. Okay, Pete. that's too far. T bro. You took itoo far, man. No, bro. Come on, man. What are you talking about, bro? Soee you saying that. I'm more likely to smoke weed later. Yeah. that's my favorite character. You weed smoking guy After the back to back assassinations of JFK and RFK, Hubert Humphrey took the Democratic nomination but lost to Richard Nixon, leaving the party scrambling for a new identity and they were ready for another the third Kennedy to step in. There was a lot of sort of groundsell and momentum to just be like, we love the Kennedys. Let's get Teddy in there U Now Teddy was he was reluctant. He was not sure about taking the baton and he admitted quote The disadvantage of my position is being constantly compared with two brothers of such superior ability. I love that quote because it is it does so many things. It's simultaneously like reverent to his two brothers who were really amazing in a lot of ways Um, And Also it's self deprecating in a sort of cheeky way Yeah. And then which kind of lowers the bar And then it also sort of chastises the media for even making the comparisons in the first place. Totally. It's such good writing. And the Kennedys had the best writers in political history. Ted Sorenson was famously speech writer, wrote a lot of JFK's stuff and then RFKs stuff, and we'll meet some of the people that worked in speech writing for RFK in a minute. Take a note, Baldwins. Yep. there you go Take a note. Exactly. But a lot of John F. Kennedy's speeches are so famous for good reason. They're really sort of poign expressions of values and whether you agree with them or not. And to the nations of the world ask not what the United States can do for you. But ask what we As the world can do for the betterment of humankind something like that, I fucked it up. It's close. It's close enough. And by the way, forget also that was more Mayor Quimby than John F. Kennedy. Sow out. Wait so this is funny to me. partart of what makes your podcast so fun to listen to and I think and also makes you such a great guests on podcasts is you have an encyclopedic memory for quotations and citations. And I wonder and I have the memory of a goldfish. L I can't remember any I can't even remember the podcast I did last week. U And so I wo is is there a process to that? Do you take notes or is it sort of effortless? Like what is the You know what's funny about that? You and I have talked about that before because I remember it being meanful a meaningful compliment to me last time we spoke about it. It is from effort somewhat I'm a big highlighter and I write things on my bathroom mirror. You get white chalk markers and I write What's funny is I have all these quotes on my mirror, things that I try to hold in my heart, But every once in a while, I'll also write Like a joke idea. Oh cool. So right now, my mirror says like what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it And then like right beneath it It says planan B Pill, but for food They have that. It's called Xlax. Oh my God. that's so now I'm picturing your home is like is very much serial killer vibes. withs just like writing all over the mirrors. You just have to own it. You just have to own that like that's awesome. I'm a crazy person that writes on my mirror, but it's not it's me Goodwill Hunting, Jesse Eisenberg in the social network And ye the thing we all have in common is we remember a lot of quotes That's awesome. I really envy that. Of the two brothers, it seems, Robert F. Kennedy had the strongest impact on Ted's political identity. A nineteen seventy two New York Times piece notes that when Ted entered the Senate at thirty in nineteen sixty three, he was bright eyed, bushy tailed and ready to play ball with the establishment. But by the time RFK was assassinated in nineteen sixty eight Teddy had veered noticeably left, picking up RFK's anti Vietnam crusade and as the Times put it, quote, embodying the Kennedy legacy of concerned activism. Now, despite Ted's reluctance at first to be the Democratic Party's poster boy by nineteen sixty nine, he was on a fast track to political stardom, which was no small feat in a year marked by surging counterculture and widespread unrest Over the Vietnam War. With his eye on the nineteen seventy two presidential race, he was poised to make a real impact. But first A little vacation. On a hot July weekend in nineteen sixty nine, Ted headed to Martha's vineyard A familiar family refuge for the Kennedys and just a very short trip from their fabled compound in Hyiannisport on Cape Cod. Its Hyianasport the summer White House, as it was called, it was the Mar a Lago of its day. Oh yeah. ye. It really was. It's sort of I think I feel like Mar aago is sort of a descendant of Hyannasport. because yeah you could have your Yeah, or place Yeah. John John F Kennedy did a lot of presidential work from that compound in Hyanesport. Because what is the one that all the presidents have? It's like a for Camp David. Camp David. Yeah But, you know Only the hacks go to campown. Yeah. You gott to have your own. busush. his ranch. Eactly your own now. come on, you gott to have your own. So this particular weekend, Teddy was planning to race in the forty third annual Edgar Town Yacht Club Reatta aboard the family boat, the Victura He was joined these are beautiful old wooden sailboats, by the way. We got to we got to do this in the movie. We depicted the regatta and they're just these gorgeous old u one design sailbats that they had these regicattas with. He was joined by former US attorney Paul Markham and his cousin Joe Gen, Gargan. That's who Jim Gaffkin played Paul Markham and I played Joe Gargan in the movie. I feel like everything sounds like a cheese Garonzola Ricotta. Markam boat. Yeah, Victora ictor every sounds like it you. That's that's New England for you. That's like where That's white bread New England culture. Bing in the cheese. Just a little background on Joey Gargan. He had been orphaned as a young child and was was Rose Kennedy was was the Kennedy family matriarch her sister was Joey's mother and Joey lost his parents when he was young, moved in and basically was raised as a sibling, but he was on the outside. It's like And so became he became a little bit of like the fixer. So he was never quite in the family, but he was like a first cousin and very much in the mix. It's very interesting dynamic. So we'll get back to Jooy Gargan. For now all you need to know is that Ted placed ninth in this regatta in Edgart toown on Martha's Vineyard. This is where things get real eresting Later that evening, a small gathering came together that included several of Ted's advisors, along with six women who had worked on Robert Kennedy's nineteen sixty eight. campaign. These women were known as the Boiler Room girls. Now Here's I just want to sort of dispel, I think what's a very easy assumption here, which is that these are just sort of like a gaggle of like wacky secretaries like out to have a great time. These were These women were the boiler room girls as they were sort of affectionately known within the campaign These were badass young women and they were speech writers. they were a tight knit team of strategists, staffers right at the heart of RFK's campaign. were very well educated, they were motivated, and many of them went on to have like phenomenal careers. Part of the sort of reframing of this evening is that it's a reunion. They had just lost RFK in nineteen sixty eight. He'd been assassinated. and they were all such passionate hard workers on his behalf And of course, it was all very traumatizing. And a this was a little bit of a reunion from that team that had worked so closely on his campaign and a chance to say thank you from the Kennedy family. I'm not saying that maybe hormones weren't also a part of it, but I just I I just wanted to disel chef in it. Yeah. Yeah, I just wanted to dispel the sort of easy assumption that this was like A bunch of like P powerful men with like a bunch of bluesies kind of like having a crazy party night. These were all very accomplished people. So the group met at a cottage, a small ferry ride from Martha's Vineyard on Chapaquitock Island, a quieter, more secluded spot It's right across a narrow channel from Edgarown And it's accessible only by this very small ferry that the ferry holds like two or three cars. Like it's a tiny little flatbed ferry. The mood relaxed. drinks, a cookout, music, dancing, just a summer night with friends. and again, a chance to reconnect after this like very traumatic presidential campaign they'd all been through. Are you getting a bad feeling yet Yeah, I was going to say you're doing a good job. And I love my level of knowledge for this because I don't know what's going to happen I just know that you're doing something that people who are telling stories about bad things do, which is giving me a lot of detail. A lot of ramp up. And these women weren't just flzies good women. N working women. And I'm like, what happens to these women When it comes to looking your best, Beachbum tanning does it better. Beeachbum delivers advanced sun and spray tanning, luxury skincare, and an elevated salon experience designed around you. It's why so many guests trust Beachbum for flawless color and real confidence. And now Beachbum is expanding Mness services to many locations, with red light therapy and infrared sauna, with more on the way. Rcharge your body, refresh your skin, reset your day. Beachbum isn't just tanning. It's full spectrum wellness. Visit beachbum dot com to find a location near you discover a spectacular island destination with crystal blue seas, endless sunshine, and the cool Bahamian breeze. Baham Mar, located in Nassau Bahamas, offers your choice of three luxury hotels, the richly refined Rosewood, the playfully hip SLS, and the stylishly modern Grand Hayatt. With over forty five restaurants, bars, and lounges, Bahamar serves up delicious dining from world renowned chefs like Daniel Balud and Marcus Samuelson, nightlife venues like the New John Batesee Jazz Club, and the Caribbean's most luxurious casino. At Baahamar, you'll find every pleasure under the sun, and one of a kind experiences for the entire family, like Baja Bay, our fifteen acre lush tropical water park interteractive wildlife experiences, including our daily flamingo parade, world class golf, tennis, spa, and so much more. Visit banghamar. com today and discover a vacation destination where memories are made for a lifetime Bahamar, life spectacular First pipe, A dead water heater The AC calling it quits. Who do you call? Home Serve is an easy way to handle unexpected home repairs. W plans covering stuff basic homeowners' insurance usually won't. Instead of scrambling for a contractor, you make one call to get the repair process started. Join the millions of customers who trust HomeServe right now. Go to homeomServe d. com slash podcast for fifty percent less your first year. That's Homeserve dot com slash podcast. saavings compared to renewal priceo in Florida This is Rady D Lucia from a really goodood Cry. I've been doing reformer pilates for years now and it's always been one of those workouts that I come back to. It makes me feel stronger, connected to my body and flexible all at the same time But having a reformer at home has completely changed it for me. There's no rushing to a class, no schedule to work around, and I can move when I want how I want, whether that's a full workout or just ten minutes to reet. And I've noticed I actually listen to my body more. Some days I push, some days I slow down, but I'm more consistent because it fits into my life. Uifformer comes with access to over a thousand instructed led workouts on the app, and your first three months are free. It's delivered to your door in under a week, and honestly, it just makes taking care of yourself so much easier. Visit yourreformer.ot com that's yourreformer dot com and use the code cry two hundred for two hundred dollars off your outright purchase. Your space, your pace, your reformer. let's introduce one of the Boiler Rom girls who will become very central to our story, Mary Jo Kpekney. I think it's not only important to understand why she was at the party, but also to really honor her life and work. Mary Joe was born. That's a tell right there. But But before we get there, Mary Joe was born in Pennsylvania in nineteen forty. She was raised in New Jersey and later spent time in Alabama teaching as part of a civil rights project She volunteered for JFK's presidential campaign while in college, then worked for Florida Senator George Smathers before joining RFK's Senate office after his nineteen sixty four election. Smathers actually recommended her Mers. Smathers G great name. I mean, it's like a sitcom name. Yes, it is Smathers actually recommended her to RFK, noting her strong admiration for the Kennedy family Ethel Kennedy later recalled Mary Joe being the one who stayed up all night writing Robert's nineteen sixty six Vietnam speech. Again, not bad ass young women. Mary Joe went on to serve as a speech writer on RFK's nineteen sixty eight campaign and of course became part of the Boiler Room Girls. Then, in september nineteen sixty eight, Mary Jo was hired by Matt Reese associates, a firm that managed democratic campaigns nationwide. She was now a political organizer and damn proud of it. Those who knew her described her as talented, industrious and wholly devoted to her work. I think it's just valuable to reflect on the promise of someone like this. L she's she's so Like to be a speech wrriter in your mid twenties for like a presidential candidate, I think in the same way that you and I felt, I don't know, when I was doing starting out in comedy in New York City, I was drunk on this world. I just loved I wasm so thrilled to be a part of it. It was all the things that I'd seen on TV and And then sudenly I'm in New York City and I'm seeing my heroes and on stage, like in the proximity to them and And it's very I think Washington, DC is very similar for a lot of people. a sense that like these are very aspirational people, the candidates that we admire. And I'm not taking a strong stand on the Kennedys. I do admire the Kennedys, but they are controversial. But someone like Mary Joe Ppeckney, who very much admired the Kennedys and wanted to help their cause is suddenly not only in the trenches with him, but like really having an effect on RFK's campaign in such a cool way. Yeah and in that's Yeah inner twenties. But it's to me, that's the version of that that I know is like SNL writers in their tw Yeah. No, you're not wrong. Politics is show business and I'm not saying that Sometimes people say show business to disregard it. Anything that's about perception and public speaking, it's all performing. It's a performance and she was in a way, like a writer for SNL. She was writing in a very powerful public way. Yeah. So when Mary Jo received an invitation in the summer of nineteen sixty nine for this reunion with her fellow Boiler Room girls and a few of the other advisors and staffers, she jumped at the chance. Now unfortunately Repeat, tragedy, awaited Okay. The next morning, july nineteenth, nineteen sixty nine, two young fishermen discovered an overturned black oldsmobile submerged in Pouuchcha pond. Now I'm going to say poucha pond. In the movie, I think we said pcha pond. I'm not positive that. Yeah Pa. This car is submerged and it's upside down In the pond now this is a tidal pond to be clear. So there's current that goes in and out under this really low bridge. These fishermen, they see this car, they call the police chief, Dominic Jim Arena, who arrived and he called in a local diver, John Ferrar to jump in and investigate. Now inside the car, they found the body of Mary Joke Pckney deceased and very likely drowned. No evidence of illegal activity was found, but the car was determined to be registered too And he guesses Ted Ted Kenny The car was registered to Teddy. Holy shit. So she drove his car Well, it's interesting you say that. Why was Mary Joe in Ted's car? Who was driving? and why the fuck is the car flipped over upside down in this pond? This the G Gatsby. This is this whoo was driving To answer all of these questions, let's go back to the night before, july eighteenth een nine and walk through what we think happened. Now the timeline we have comes from a mix of sources, pololice reports from that weekend, contemporaneous news coverage, lots of subsequent news coverage and sort of like looks back and reflective reporting. Ted Kennedy's own statements in the days that followed a judicial inquest that was conducted in early nineteen seventy I just want to be clear, even with all of that source material, the full picture of the Night of Chap Aquitic, and part of the reason it's so locked into the American political consciousness is that the full picture never really came into perfect focus. There are gaps, there are contradictions, there are lingering questions, which some of which we'll get into But I just want to reiterate, even though this reconstruction that I'm going to share with you is fairly widely accepted and it's what we depicted in the movie, it does remain very controversial. And there are a lot of people, there's a lot of conspiracies around it and there's room unfortunately, there's like room for conspiracies because there are open questions. So let's get into it We're at the party in the cottage. Exact times are disputed, but sometime between eleven PM and one AM Ped and Mary Joe part of the cottage in Ted's car Kennedy would later claim that he was driving Mary Joe back to the Edgartown Ferry, but they were going in the opposite direction. Now Chap Aquidic is a is a rustic we shot there for the movie and so I I This is firsthand. It's a it's a it's dirt roads. It's it's it's it's very It's just a lot of open space and so it's easy to have made a rog turn theoretically, but What we don't turn was it? wereere they I'm picturing it like Maui. likeike if you're not going towards the airport, you're going the other way. Is it like that? It's hard to buy that he made a wrong turn. Unless this is someone trash disturbed how quickly you can come up with a lie. It's because it's like diving. I would have been a good publicist. Yeah. It's like maybe He's with this young lady. They're enjoying themselves. Let's take the scenic route. Let's go the long way. because if you're on an island, there is no wrong turn. there's just a longer way to where you're going. No, not this way. N like this. No, not not this particular road. The way that they were driving was towards beach It's a dead end basically. I mean, it's a long road and it go it goes along, but but to get to the ferry, you have to literally go the opposite direction. Okay. so Yeah. So he seems to be lying. But it's it's a very rural feeling place. So so there's not a lot of landmarks and so forth, but they're going to the beach to maybe smooch a little bit with respect. Maybe. I don't think that's an unfair assumption, but we just we don't know. At some point, while they're driving, the car veered off of this small dike bridge and the car flipped over and sunk upside down into the murky waters of Pauchchapon below. to be clear, this was a low bridge with absolutely no guardrails of any kind s here's a photo of it with some spectators after the accident Okay. ye. I don't like this bridge. Yeah, that that bridge, obviously's very easy to to veer off of. I don't think any of the vehicles we're seeing are the actual vehicle that flpp that went off the bridge. Yeah. So Ted recalled, quote, struggling as the water flooded the car and quickly submerged him and Mary Joe. And the details are still unclear on this, but Ted somehow escaped the car and he claims to have made repeated efforts to rescue Mary Joe in his statement, he Basically he admits to driving the car. But his rescue attempts were unsuccessful. And here's where our man Teddy starts to make some really bad decisions instead of going to the police Ted walked back to the cottage. Once there, it is believed that Ted told Joe Gargan and Paul Markham what had happened Now what's interesting is that according to Joe Gargan's later testimony in the inquest, Ted only said, The car has gone off the bridge down by the beach and Mary Joe is in it. He did not say I drove a car off the bridge the most down abive passive voicees in American history. The car is in the water. Yes. Now this this speaks to a pos one theory as to a possible like version of the story that Teddy might have been trying to start to build, which is that he wasn't even in the car. So immediately, Joe, Paul and Teddy go back to the bridge and Joe and Paul strip down and they dive in and they make multiple attempts to save Mary Joe. Obviously they were they were un to cover her body, right Yeah Now I can tell you in shooting the movie, we recreated we were on a set in a giant water tank in Mexico and they built this bridge And they submerged a car upside down and Jim Gaffan and I jumped off the bridge in is in the middle of the night and swam down to a car Let's like three or four feet under the water, but it's upside down And we tried to look in the windows of the car and you know, basically perform this what what's happening here Yeah. And I can tell you it was so terrifying. evenven under the most controlled circumstances, like diving into dark water and and looking into a car, expecting to see a body. it just is like so unnerving. And to find your good side. And you're like, wait, how am I being framed Yeah. and and I'm And by the way, the version I'm doing is fake And these guys are doing it for real. Yeah, but this is interesting because you said rescue, they're clearly jumping in. They don't know. there may have been an air pocket, Pete. We'll get there. W it. Yes, hold on. It gets crazy. So afterwards, Joe and Paul told Ted that he needed to inform the police. Interestingly, Joe first recommended that Ted call his administrative assistant, Dave and also a lawyer close to the family A man by the name of Burke Marshall. So a couple of Burks. couple of pererks. Y Okay, so yes, definitely tell the police that this woman is dead in a car accident, but makeake sure you call your lawyer and your assistant first. According to Joe Gargan's testimony, Ted told Joe and Paul he would, quote, take care of it and urged them to go back to the cottage and not upset the girls with this terrible news yet. At this point, it's so late at night. There's no ferries running. Kennedy allegedly swam across this narrow channel back to Edgartown. And Joe and Paul, of course are believing he's going to the police to report this. Who did Teddy, Teddy swam back to Edgar toown. Shut off. Yeah Yes. And so I mean, this is this this is the account that we're going with. It's not that far. It's like a couple it's maybe like a a couple hundred yards. I'll swim in. Yeah. he says and it is it's a lot of people do swim it. It's not that insane. It's not like rough open water. But he's in like a suit. No, he's in beach attire. probably stripped down to his shorts, who knows And and he's staying, remember, his hotel is in Edgart Town. So that's part of what I mean, he's got clothes waiting for him over there. He's headed back to Edgart Town and Joey and and Markham believe that he's going to tell the police. Now back at his hotel did not report the incident. He later claimed in court that he was up all night kind of like in this fever state hoping that Mary Joe was somehow still alive, like in denial, hotel staff claimed later that Kennedy, this is very interesting. Kennedy made a noise complaint at three AM about like some revelry going on in another room. and that the following morning, he was seen very casually having breakfast with some people in the hotel restaurant. Now This is all very interesting because it sort it starts to feed this idea that perhaps Teddy was trying to establish that was Yeah that he was like that he never was even there and that he was actually in Edgar toown. And so like now he's on the record at three AM making a noise complaint. You can see how this this kind of starts to feel like he's building an alibi. but it's also sort of like The worst possible post incident Yeah like way to handle this. Yeah. So then Joe and Paul show up at Ted's hotel at eight hundred thirty. They find him at breakfast. fresh as a daisy likeike, you know, showered and like all wearing nice clothes, having just a chipper breakfast with some other people. They asked if he'd reported the incident. He had not So they drove him back to Chap Aquitic to you know, took the ferry. And now at this point, the car has been discovered by the police U. After trying and failing to reach Brooke Marshall, Ted quote fully realized what had happened and he came clean to the police around ten AM. That was Kennedys language in his police statement that he quote fully realized what had happened over ten hours later and breakfast Sometimes you're just not yourself until you have your coffee. I guess, I guess so This seems like an open and closed like He did this He's in a very powerful family And a lot of people are going like, maybe this didn't happen. We're in this island, Maybe we can clean it up. Yeah I think that's probably what makes this story so compelling is we all have this like devilish instinct where we're O maybe I just keep driving, you know, like that sort of thing. These things happen all the time, hit and runs and all that sort of stuff. So we had a guy going, oh no, I was driving, I was drunk. Maybe we were going to the beach to fool around. There's lots of bad things happening. We don't know any of that, but she dies. And then he spent a good while talking to everybody except the police, C I get out of this? Yeah, Which I think again is what makes this a good, it's not a ghost story, but like a ghostly kind of story is you're. Wait, would I do that? Would I also try to cover my own ass? Like it' we go very quickly to like this person is dead Nothing is going to bring them back, Ted. You know what I mean? Like Yeah So we can protect you. Like it's like I'm not putting thats right Its obious's wrong. But and it's that old adage that like this was clearly an accident, right? Right. And had he come clean immediately and like gone straight to the police and tr respond didn't happen until way later They would have tested him for alcohol. But back then it was like, saying Yankee Doodle Dandy. Yeah, right. Smoke this cigarette. Now tell me your mother's name. He's so was. He's got coffee on his breath. He's so. Here's the thing, police flagged a number of his inconsistencies in Kenny' account Deputy Sheriff Christopher S. Look Jior reported seeing a dark, seemingly lost car the night before, only to later realize it was the same vehicle involved in the accident. He placed that sighting around twelve forty five AM, which is ninety minutes after the time Kennedy said the incident occurred. Notably, this was long after the last ferry stopped running I guess the implication is that maybe Kennedy changed the timeline to make his, oh, we were driving to the Edgartown ferry story like more plausible because because in real life the time they were driving The ferry had long stopped running. So interesting details to mention here, The New York Times report confirmed credit card records tied to that night showed calls from the cottage and hotel to Kennedy's family, lawyers, and staff. Other reports indicate that seventeen total phone calls were charged to his credit card that night. In addition, the purse of one of the other Biler room girls, Rosemary Ko was in the car for some reason Here's a really interesting detail. No autopsy was ever performed on Mary Joe. Kennedy's team, Kennedy had called this guy Don Gifford who came and basically took the body right away flown to Pennsylvania for burial just almost immediately before local officials could really even request an official examination. Sosurp and you'll hear why that's even more controversial than it sounds. It seems like cut and dry how she died. It's not. So unsurprisingly, the news of the incident took America by storm Would Kennedy be held responsible, and would the real truth ever come out When it comes to looking your best, Beachbum tanning does it better. Beeachbum delivers advanced sun and spray tanning, luxury skincare, and an elevated salon experience designed around you. It's why so many guests trust Beachbum for flawless color and real confidence. And now Beachbum is expanding Mon' services to many locations, with red light therapy and infrared sauna, with more on the way. Rcharge your body, refresh your skin, reset your day. 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I'll do twenty minutes in the morning, sometimes in the evening, sometimes both, no commute, no scheduling around a class, no pressure to keep up with anyone else. It's just me moving in a way that feels good that day. And it genuinely looks so beautiful and they have a foldable version too So it just lives in my space, which makes it so much easier to stay consistent. Every Euraformer comes with over a thousand instructor led workouts on the app, so you can follow along or just move at your own pace. They deliver straight to your door within seven days across the mainland US. So if you've ever loved reformer palates but struggle to make it part of your routine, this makes it so easy. Visit youraformer dot com and use the code free month rental On july twentieth, nineteen sixty nine, just a day after Mary Joe Kpeckney was discovered in Ted Kennedy's oldsmobile, two gentlemen by the names of Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin stepped onto the lunar surface of our very own moon. Have you ever heard of those guys? Ever heard. Yes. Yes. So with those steps, so too did they absorb most, if not all of the news coverage about what happened to Chapaquiddic serendipitous timing for Ted and his team of course, but that only lasted for a short while. After the moon landing coverage subsided, ChapaQuitic became front and center in the media. On july twenty fifth, Ted Kennedy pled guilty to leaving the scene of the accident. That was his only charge and received a two month suspended jail sentence and the loss of his driver's license for one Ye, That's it That's it. The same day He delivered a statement on TV to his constituents. and interestingly, the author of this statement Joe Gargan presumably had was trying to have strong influence on it in a way that would sound like he was taking more responsibility. but most of what Teddy said in this statement was actually written by Ted Sorenson, the same speech writer that wrote so many of JFK's incredible speeches. Soisten listen to this quote from Teddy's TV statement I remember thinking, as the cold water rushed in around my head, that I was for certain drowning. Then water entered my lungs and I felt the sensation of drowning, but somehow I struggled to the surface alive. I made immediate and repeated efforts to save Mary Joe by diving into the strong and murky current, but succeeded only in increasing my state of utter exhaustion and alarm My conduct and conversations during the next several hours to the extent that I can remember them make no sense to me at all. I that's another just concede Just be like, yeah, makes no sense. I don't get it either guys. I don't get it. You know, again, maybe I would have been good in like a crisis management team because that is valid. It's like concede the point All of my behavior after that fact is completely irrational. I was in an irrational state. Oh, that's what I could have been. a lawyer. That's what a lawyer would say. He was completely in shock. His friend had just died. He tried to save them. And then from that state of confusion, he's swimming back to his hotel. This guy is not okay. Obviously that statement is is very kind of obtuse. Yeah And and the question remains, did he take responsibility at all for his actions? Here's another quote believe from later in the same TB address. Although my doctors informed me that I suffered a cerebral concussion as well as shock, I do not seek to escape responsibility for my actions by placing the blame either on the physical and emotional trauma brought on by the accident or on anyone else So he say which is a way of saying yes, I am. Yes, but But but it's a way of saying I'm not avoiding, it's like sort of stating the negative without stating the positive, which is another like very savvy bit of like linguistic. It's like linguistic ju Jitsu. That's like textbook How to say the opposite of what you're saying. You have lots of these kinds of incidents in your past. why you're such an expert on this. This is why you had me on. You can't stop whooipsidoodling. U So this is interesting. There was a lot of pressure on Teddy Kennedy after this incident to resign from Congress as we've seen so often with these kinds of scandals. likeike there's always a big outcry, especially from the opposition. But even from within his own party, a lot of people thought like, this is insurmountable, you really fucked up. It's time to like resign. But here's how he handled that he ended the statement with a very curious appeal to his Massachusetts constituents whileile considering whether to resign from Congress over the accident. He asked them to quote, think this through with them. Though he acknowledged the decision was ultimately his, he asked whether they believed he should remain in the Senate. So he sort of kicked it. He punted it to the constituents. and turns out his strategy was successful. His constituents did want him to stay and he kept his seat in Congress. He did announce later that he would not run for president as had been the plan in ' seventy two. Well, that's a little suspicious Which part? I guess what I'm looking for is what is the alternate narrative? Like if he said, okay, I'm not going to run for president, that sounds like somebody that's like, I don't want to drudge that up, right? I don't want you to look at that more closely. I don't want you to throw that in my face, maybe investigate more That makes it seem like there might have been foul play, but I still don't see I think what the the sort of like Kennedy Inner Circle or Camelot as it was known, like what I think what they were afraid of, that scrutiny would bring a lot of clarity to just how terrible this was handled. I see. This is my take on it. Iess that like Teddy was was very selfish and very irrational and and was clearly avoidant R and I mean That's that's I think a generous takeaway. like if if not if not You know, because there's a version of this where he's fully guilty of manslaughter. Right? the unintentional killing of Mary Joe Um, especially if he had been drinking and all sorts of these souffs, hadad he run for president, There would have been even more scrutiny. There just wasn't the support for him to do that. But he's not quite out of the limelight yet. District attorney Edmund Denise requested a judicial inquest into Mary Joe's death which occurred in january nineteen seventy. The testimony in this judicial inquest is a lot of what gives us the ability to construct a narrative here. They spoke to hotel staff, they spoke to obviously Joe Gargan and Paul Markham. Kennedy gave a statement. It's almost three hundred pages of testimony and they spoke to the police and all the local folks, the diver, the judge wound up determining that the likely cause of Mary Joe's death was simply negligent driving, which a lot of people think that this judge was just participating in the institutional urge to sweep this under the carpet. Yeah. Numerous theories have floated around over the years about possible other explanations for what happened that night And why Kennedy waited a full ten hours to report. The fact that Rosemary Keo's purse was inside the car made some wonder if Rosemary and Ted were in the car together on their way to do some canoodling, perhaps, and that they didn't realize that Mary Joe was asleep in the backseat. In this version, of course, the car would have crashed, both Rosemary and Ted would have escaped and then Mary Joe would have passed away I don't think a lot of people believe this, but there are owl theory in the staircase. Yeah. There's just all of the evidence for this is simply that Rosemary's purse was in the seat of the car. Another version of the incident pitched in the book, Chap Aquitic revealed what Re happened by Kenneth Capppell. claims that Ted accidentally rammed the car into a tree while he was intoxicated and thinking that Mary Joe had been killed, submerged the car in the pond with the help of Joe Garggan and Paul Markham to avoid prosecution. I think this theory is insane because it'd be virtually impossible to flip the car into the pond on purpose There's even speculation in Leo DMore's best selling book, Senatorial Privilege, which is a very exhaustive account of all of this. That speculation is that Ted tried to loop Joe Gargan into a plot to tell everyone that Mary Joe It was just the driver of the car alone. and that Ted wasn't even in the car And this one, this version I think has some like there are some things that lend a little credence to this version. For example, Teddy going back to the hotel and trying to establish that he was the hotel by calling and making a complaint about noise and that sort. And then like pretending the next morning like everything's fine. And basically like establishing witnesses to say like what, Teddy was at the hotel the whole night. This is an interesting one. and think they do in succession is they say the remember Kend kill Oh of course. Yeah, guy you weren't driving. He was driving. like Yes. exactly. They weren't even there. Yeah.. So so I think this is an interesting theory. repeporter Jack Anderson also claimed that Ted actually asked Joe at one point to take the fall, which Joe Gargan emphatically denied. None of these theories are provable, right? We just don't know what really happened outside of the testimonies of the people involved. All these rumors aside, was there any justice served? Well, the Copepeckne family did receive approximately one hundred forty thousand dollars in settlements According to some reports in nineteen seventy four, it was paid in full by Kennedy's auto insurance. Other sources claim it was paid perhaps in part by Kennedy himself Of course, there's no amount of financial settlement to a family that can write this kind of wrong Ted would try to run for president one time only in nineteen eighty when he bid for the Democratic nominee against Jimmy Carter, but he lost. What's complicated here is that Ted would go on to live a long and very productive life a Massachusetts senator. He helped usher in countless pieces of vital and substantive legislation. He played a major role in advocating for reforms across healthcare and education, civil rights, and immigration. According to the United States Senate website, he authored over two thousand five hundred bills, several hundred of which became law. That's insane. That's just an epic political legacy. After he passed in two thousand nine, President Obama said of Ted's legacy, quote, For five decades, virtually every major piece of legislation to advance the civil rights, health, and economic well beinging of the American people bore his name and resulted from his efforts That same year that he died, Ted released an autobiography where he confirmed the incident remained a burden through his whole life He wrote and this is a quote and this is wild to me. This quote is really interesting