Reflecting on the Perfect Crime

He was arrested one final time, this time for borrowing a shirt and tie from a local pub owner and just not giving it back. It's really rude. Again. So rude. So arrested for being a bad friend? Not even a bad friend. justust like a mildly annoying friend. typical friend. Yeah. Can you just give it back? typical friend This is an IiHart podcast Guaranteed human. Running a business shouldn't feel like surviving a software group project. One app for accounting, another for inventory, another for sales. And somehow none of them talk to each other That's where Odu comes in An all in one business management software that brings every part of your business together from sales and accounting to inventory and marketing, all in one powerful platform No messy integrations, no bouncing between tabs And best of all No spreadsheets. Stop managing software and start managing your business with one unified system Try for free today at odu d. com slash heartradio. 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And listeners of this show will get a seventy five dollars sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at indeed dot com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply Need to hire? This is a job for indeed sponsored jobs Welcome to SnnaFoo, the podcast about history's greatest screw ups. I'm your host Ed Helms, of course, and Each episode, I cover an enormous screw upp from history, we talk through all the absurdity, have a few laughs along the way, and search for meaning in humanity's ongoing commitment terrible decisions My guests today are true cast goats The podcast royalty. Their show launched in twenty sixteen It is a top of the charts behemoth. This dynamic duo has covered infamous serial killers, mysterious cld cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events throughout history. They've recorded over one thousand one hundred forty nine episodes and counting and to top it all off, you can c catch them on Netflix, if you're a self professed murderino, then you already know precisely who I'm talking about. It is the co hosts of my favorite murder Welcome to SnaFu, Karen Kilgareiff and Georgia Hardstark Thank you. Thank you. So glad to have you guys. I think we connected in Austin at an Hart event. Is that right? Oh yeah. Karen I think I met you a long time before that because I was going to see a lot of comedy and then before I started doing standup comedy in the very early two thousands in New York City, which is where you started, am I wrong I actually technically started in Sacramento, California. Okay thenen went to San Francisco, then came to LA. I've done stand upp in New York, but I never did I was not You never were part of the New York scene. No. But you did like Luna Lounge. Do you remember that Eating It show? Yes, I got to do a couple cool shows because I was friends with New York comics and so I kind of lucked out in that way But but it was always such a nerve wracking like it was the real deal. whereereas like LA, you could be beautiful, you could be, you know, you could be all these other things and it would kind of add to your act and you could talk about local stuff and be like, hey, did you see that car chase? But New York was the realist. tough. Well I remember you from back then and seeing that that Eating it show at the Luna Lounge was legendary and it was a tough crowd. Was that the show that Patrice O'Neill was on, if you can remember. Yeah. Patrice was on it a lot. Mark Maron and Todd Berry and David Cross and so many. so many great people. Janine, Groffalo. R I mean, I'm so glad that you remember that show and positively because I remember walking off the stage there and being like, thank God, like all I wanted to do was just not eat it and not be bad. Yeah I mean of the show was eating it. I The show was eating it. It's like a threat to the comics who were getting on stage. This is about to happen to you and just get ready for it. So, so cool. Yeah. Georgo, your background is not comedy per se, right? Yeah, journalism, no, comedy no. I was in the audience for all those comedy shows. Like I used to go in the early two thousands to like Largo and watch Karen all the amazing comics, but yeah, I started writing about food and then my friend and I made up a fake cocktail made a video for it called The McNegatini. It went viral and I haven't had a desk job since it's been fifteen years. So that's just my muscle. I love that.. I love that. So what wass the origin of your friendship? How did you guys connect It was like the wide out version was I was working on a talk show at the time that Georgia's husband, Vince, who is a stand upp also from New York. All of his friends were writers on it. So I kind of got into this writer friend group of all those people and then met Georgia basically at the hangouts there. And she was, of course, hilarious and fun to talk to, but then also it was the same time as like the staircase, the jinx, all those huge making a murder were coming out And we got into a conversation one night about the staircase that it literally hasn't ended for ten years. It's crazy, but it is that same like at the time, finding another person to talk to about it wasn't that common. It was a little more of like a hidden hobby, especially for the ladies, I think. Yeah. That's so funny. because my next question was like, how How did you discover in each other this like abinity for murder? And And I have this running joke with some of my comedy buddies from way back about like two serial killers at a party trying to like suss each other out. if they're like they're like down to go commit a murder. Yeah So they're kind of like, Hey man, do you like to party? like Well, yeah, I like to party. know, I mean party. I know mean You mean You mean like go like do drugs and No, man, I mean party. Like and they eventually get to like, you mean murder? L Yeah, man, let's go do. Yeah. That's essentially what happenedcept except instead of murder, it's ten years of podcasting, you know, Sochangeable kind. Thankfully actual murder is not the interest and it's more We hate it. No no.' we're completely against it. The It was an ironic title that really bit us in the ass like Three or four years later when Iirony died entirely and people are like, it's wrong. It's wrong to have a favorite. Yeah. But I knew that I was going be friends with Georgia for a long time. The first time I was at like a friend's giving with her Forgive me for telling this story, but I love it. I don't care. But Georgia did this thing where she She doesn't like it when people are eating, but there's no conversation. So we're all just sitting in a guy's living room eating Thanksgiving dinner, but kind of being quiet. And George is like, I can't take this. And then you basically kind of started belching as a joke, like a big belt. Do you remember that? And I have do. The first time you did it I fucking started laughing and then I was just like, yeah, my people are here. L I don't have to be nervous ' I didn't know the people that well. and I'm like, I'm with her. I'm with her. Yeah. I'll do anything for silent mastication not to be happening around me. That's a great bit to just start burping at dinner excessively And I agree with you, when a large gathering kind of goes into just silent eating, it's uncomfortable for everybody. wayay to go. I'm very impressed and I wish I had been there to witness that. Well, let's dive in. Are you guys ready to snafoo? Completely. Good. I was very excited to have you on the show today because this story that we're going to get into it kind of ticks all the boxes for both of our shows bothoth a Snafu and it involves a murder. So it is what I like to call a sn murder Oh yeah, which I think I think is going to catch on Very, very catching. It really rolls off the time. Well today we're going back in time to the nineteenth century to unravel the unsolved kidnapping disappearance and, let's be honest, very likely murder of a man named William Morgan. Now at first glance, this story feels pretty insignificant dusty little small town true crime oddity, like it's just a drunk loudmouth who disappears after picking a fight with some powerful weirdos. But Morgan's disappearance actually detonated into one of the biggest public scandals in early American history and it completely reshaped this country's political system in ways that we still feel today. But I am getting ahead of myself. Do the story of William Morgan ring any bells for either of you? I don't think've done that halfway? No. And the second I heard political system, now I'm in a panic where I'm like,, You know what? That's not the story. That's just sort of like the aftermath. We don't have to get too deep into that. There's no test quiz. Yeah no testing civics. You just channeled all of America right now. All of America is just like U Civics, social studies. I got nothing. But right now, all you need to know is that on the night of september twelfth, eighteen twenty six, William Morgan was locked in a jail cell half drunk. And Ver much alive, it should be noted, in the town of Canandigua, New York. Here's the reason Morgan was in the slammer. He owed an unpaid tavern debt of drum roll please, two dollars sixty five cents We know today's money, that's our favorite bit. What is that? Okay today's money, it's not even that much. It's ninety dollars, which is which is pretty huge for a bar tab, I will say. but It's not like put a guy in jail money. It feels like in the old days, people just like went to jail so frivolously. The whole premise of the musical Les miz is that he stole a loaf of bread. guy's being chased all over the fucking world. It started the French Revolution. Wait a second, I do know something. There. Very well done. Well, the jail's operator that evening was away and his wife, misses Hall, was there to oversee the night shift And that's when a handful of men showed up with a generous offer. They paid off Morgan's debt to bail him out. And they even threw in an extra five bucks, which is nearly double what he owed. Andrs. Hall was like, all right, I'll take all this money. sureure. And she just let him go U and I'm wondering for you guys is is your true crime pattern recognition kicking in here, like Like a bunch of guys just randomly bail out a dude from jail Or that somebody gets their wife to cover their shift. Yeah, he's like, I'm not gonna be there. I'm not gonna to be there to answer for this like maybe he was tipped off, Is that what we're saying? I had't I hadn't even thought of that, but I like that angle. I mean, he's kind of like, here's the big ring of keys.. You know, donon't do anything I would't do. Yeah. Yeah. And then he like he walks around the corner and he's like, all right, guys, go for it. G in there. H off. If it's not already a neon blinking sign like bad shit about to happen. So William Morgan's spidey sense is very much also tingling at this moment and he tries to bolt. There was a brief scuffle and then he was lifted off his feet and thrown into a waiting herage Witnesses, including mrs. Hall herself later confirmed they heard him scream three times Murder, murder, murder! before the carriage disappeared into the night. Do we know that he he didn't always yell that? That was just kind of his We don't know thing. Georgia, but I'm pretty sure I safely assume that. Okay, that's their bit. That's that's that guy's bit.iet Everybody's just eating their food quietly. He's like, murder This calls to mind the bystander effect, right? If somebody's screaming murder and nobody's like intervening And you guys covered didn't you talk about the Kitty Genoveese story Yeah, which is that hally cover that. That's kind of like the what everyone points to as the bystander effect. Eple. The classic like everyone thinks everyone everyone thinks someone else is going to take care of things. Right. I guess you're supposed to ye fire because people will come running when there's a fire but not when someone yells murder. Should you say like money? M. Free money. Would that help? F Free money everywhere. That's a good one. I like kittens free kittens. All right William Morgan was thrown into this carriage He would never be seen or heard from again . So what the hell happened to him in the dead of night? What was the motive? And who were these people? Who took him? It turns out before this fateful Night in jail, Morgan had recently announced his intention to publish a tell all exposee on a very old and extremely secretive organization The Freemasons.. Yeaht You can't say publicly that you're gonna to do that. You just have to do it, you know. Everyone, I think has an association with the Freemasons. There are Masonic temples still around that we see. They get rented for movie locations a lot. But But apart from that I don't have a ton of association but I'm curious where you guys connect with the Freemasons I mean, please n of you tell me that you are a freemason. I'm on the fifth degree. I've killed many people for the group. You're just in house man for the freemason. I'm in for all of it and more. L the idea that people figure out ways to get together and be secretive and like meet in a cave to start doing like dastardly things is my favorite. I think that's like my favorite part of human human habit where it's like we'll all be in a society where we're hunting and gathering and that'll be great. But pretty soon like six people are going go off over there and start doing weird shit. And that is what I'm I love it. I try to exclude all the rest of us. Let's figure out a little bit more about William Morgan himself. Wh was he? of information on his early life. But we know he was born in Virginia around seventeen seventy four. He worked as a stone cutter and a bricklayer. In eighteen nineteen, he married Lucinda Pendleton who at age nineteen was nearly twenty five years younger than William They they had two children and eventually moved to York, Upper Canada in search of job opportunities. York, of course was a bustling little town that would eventually become Toronto. Up north, William opened a brewery. And for a quick Minute he was thriving. But tragedy befell O Willie when his brewery caught fire and burned down, forcing him to sell off most of his possessions to clear his debt Eventually he relocated back into the United States in Batavia, New York where he found work again as a brick layer and stone cutter Morgan was apparently a heavy drinker and by some accounts a gambling addict, maybe. He was thought to indulge in the occasional tall tale as well. For example, he claimed to have served as a captain in the W of eighteen twelve, even though this was never corroborated or confirmed. I do say that a lot like It's a. It's honestly it's a great flex. and its it's even better when it can't be corroborated. L the internet. Right. There's no internet in the eighteen hundreds. So it's like you can just say shit and people are like, whoa Yeah. And if you're confident enough, Like, yeah, it just it works. They were like, Hey, it's me from Upper Canada. And I think that was I think where he did come from was site of heavy fighting during the war of eighteen twelve. So it's not it's not impossible. Maybe it's true. there were historical records show that there were a number of William Morgan's that served in during the warar of eighteen twelve, although none of them had the rank of captain U Who knows? you know, the record keeping Yeah I think the gambling, the drinking and the tall tale telling is just like we know who this guy is. Yeah R. lived nearby. He would tell the story himself about those guys. and after a while, he was in the story too. R Totally, tootally. So but to your point, accounts of Morgan's personality vary depending on the source Some claim that he was, you know pretty gregarious and friendly, maybe even a bit charismatic, a bit of a good time Charlie. Others say that he was nothing but a pathetic, alcoholic and a liar and con artist. So it's hard to know what's really accurate here. Probably a little from column A, a little from column B. Aren't we all though, you know? We contain multitude probably. We are so multitudinous. I agree. This guy strikes me as one of those guys who's super fun for like three hours Right And only while you're drinking too as much as he's drinking Exactly now. That's right. He won't be quiet at a fucking Thanksgiving dinner. I'll guarantee it Well, his penchant for tall talales must have garnered him some sympathetic ears In eighteen twenty five, Morgan began telling his neighbors that while he'd been up in Canada running his brewery, he had also been initiated into the Freemasons as a master mason. He had no documentation to prove this. but again, People believed him or at least they believed him enough. And he was soon granted an advanced rooyal art degree at the Western Star chapter number thirty three in LaRoy, New York. Okay, now let's talk about the Freemasons. like let's get a little bit of context on these guys at this time. They trace their origins back to seventeenth century England and Scotland. I think it actually goes way back even before that to like when gothic cathedrals were being built and the masons would kind of form these these very tight communities, but the Freemasons as a concept sort of goes back to the sixteen hundreds in England and Scotland, where they they began as a guild for the craftsmen who built the castles and cathedrals, of course Now working far from home and alongside so many strangers, these tradespeople developed secret handshakes and private rituals and coded signals to verify who was trustworthy and to protect their trade knowledge. There's something really interesting too, about this, which is that cathedrals at that time were so mind blowing. It's like if you're a peasant and you come into a town and you see a fucking cathedral, it's like Who Put this here, God, put this here And then they're like, actually it was those guys over there. And then you're like, those people are magical. And then that sort of narrative locks in and then the masons themselves kind of co opt that intrigue and that mystery and they run with it. Also, anyone that's ever had a really good contractor understands that is from God, right? where you're just like, you can fix this thing that's been sitting in my house broken for four years. That's so funny because youve just opened up a huge Cgnitive dissonance for me because I'm so frustrated and angry at contractors like so often. And yet I'm also just to your point, I'm like, you guys are magical. Like how do you do this It's the. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. And if you just knew that secret handshake, they would do the job for you correctly in two days. And probably for free And free. Hence the free Mason What's interesting is over time, the actual stoneemason work stopped being a requirement, and the organization evolved into more of a fraternal brotherhood built around shared values, philanthropy, moral character, and brotherhood. In other words, it was as Slate magazine called it, a social club for the well to do By the mid seventeen hundreds, freemasonry had become a genuine status symbol and a way to gain entrance into high society. The membership list reads like a who's who of Western history. George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Paul Revere fifteen of the thirty nine men who signed the Constitution, a third of all US presidents, Winston Churchill, Buzz Aldrren, Harry Houdini, the founders of Wendy's and JC Pinney, Steve Wzniak, We're getting so random now. Love those guys. Steve Wzniak and Shquel O'Neill. interestnteresting detail there Wow. And also Nicholas Cage. Yes, of course. 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Ask your doctor about Buvicto because every day without cancer progression is a victory visituvicto. com to learn more The Second World War was the largest event in human history twenty part documentary series with Tom Higs. No part of the globe was untouched, No life unchanged experience the ultimate account of World War II. Every single person had a story These are the stories that make us who we are Tom Hanks, new episode Monday at eight, part of History Honors two hundred fifty. onlyn on the history channel It's worth noting in the sort of late seventeen hundreds, when we're talking when like George Washington and Benjamin Franklin were prominent freemasons, it really was. more of a It wasn't so bent on secrecy and it was more of this social fraternal organization that really espoused good values and leadership. and really it really was something that I think members were like, here's a set of values that we think we should all strive for, even though obviously no one's perfect. It's sort of like we want to just be meaningful members and contributors to our society. evolved over time and the secrecy and the rituals and all that sort of became a little more prominent and a little more dodgy. And so by the by the likeike where we are now in the eighteen twenties it had it had gotten, I don't know, maybe a little bit more Sexy Setchy ? Yes, yes. A little from column A, a little from column B. Exactly. Now, what never changed through it all is the Freemasons's absolute commitment to this secrecy and ritual, which helped keep their disparate members united in their shared pack. And some of those early rituals were Um prettyt, you know, ritualistic, shall we say? There was one where they drank wine from a human skull and which sounds kind of almost quaint from a ritual standpoint now But given like health and safety standards of the time. You're holding up the skull. Who rinsse this? Did anybodyin it rinse it or go over it Rinscing is the equivalent to what we now would think was like, did anyone disinfect this? And like back then, they're just like, did anyone rinse it out? How fresh How fresh is it? And like do we want it to be fresh or do we want it to who knows? It's no surprise a lot of intrigue and suspicions surrounded these guys You've got high profile members, all the secrets, the links with social elite. It's just ripe for conspiracy theory. Do you think these kinds of rituals, these kind of hazing rituals Obviously fraternities are now very much associated with this kind of thing. U And the theory is that when you when you sort of someone through or put a group of people through something very sort of xic and difficult that it has a bonding effect M And that that's the value that you get out of it. Even when it's just intentionally degrading or violent or brutal, I don't know do there is there kind of like this podcast that Karen and I have bonded over my favorite murder. The difference there though, is that in the list that you gave Ed, there's no girls listed. So I think this is a thing where it's like not to get super gendery, but I think if you leave too many boys alone in a room together, they go a little crazy. If no mom opens that door and goes everybody get down from there, they just will keep getting up on stuff the to their own detriment. And I think that's like that's the beauty of secrets in secret societies where it's like we share a thing no one else knows that feels very like you belong somewhere. but it can wrong so easily and quickly because the whole idea is you don't get to tell anybody. So Then you're. And also I think for men, it's like you have to be tough. You can't not like things, you can't have a problem with things. You're the toughest one. So then everybody's like having to expand their levels of torture. You've heard those stories of like what fraternities do to haaze. and they're absolutely insane. And meanwhile, sororities are like, let's hug each other and paint our nails and be friends with people My five year old this morning, I don't know how or why, but for some reason, she just launched into a list of reasons why women are better than men. And I was like You know what All the things you just said are true. you're making a real good case. Yeah. I love. start them early. And secret Societies might be one of the biggest arguments against dude leader like constant dude leadership. I'm not against dude leadership as like a thing that happens everyone, but like does it have to be always that Okay. I checked Yeah someomebody get somebody in there that is when you start doing your weird secret society stuff, they're going to go. I'm sorry, what? hold on. You need a loud lady. or just someone who's going to be like, you Ew. I, that's gross. Like drinking wine out of a cuman skull in the eighteen hundreds Ew Put that down. Put it down. Wash your hands. Yeah. That's happening. By eighteen twenty six, just a year after being welcomed into these Masonic circles. He had turned on them entirely, announcing his plan to publish a book exposing their secret rituals to the world. Naturally, the Freemasons were not thrilled about this, and that's right where our story starts to get Super dark But here's the thing about William Morgan, he didn't set out to burn the Freemasons down, at least not at first. When he initially joined, Morgan wanted to expand access to the organization. He started trying to establish new Masonic chapters around Batavia, which to the senior members who'd spent years carefully cultivating this exclusive brotherhood That came across as a bit presumptuous and maybe a little wrong headaded. It's sort of like the secret society equivalent of showing up at your first day at a new job and being like, you know what? We got to change some stuff around here. feel. Yeah. Yeah. Especially in a secret society where you're just like, I got big ideas mostly about expansion and optics. Let's get out there in the public. Yeah, and they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, dude, we just let you in. Yeah Bro. Yeah. I mean, you're a good time. You're fun, but like tellell a good story, but shut up. Yeah, but shut it. So the men who mattered within the lodge never really warmed up to old u. Williamorgan. Now whether that was due to his grandiose personality, his drinking, the general sense that he was overstepping or the fact that he may have been lying about his Masonic credentials in the first place. You just got to admit, this guy had audacity and it he may have been the guy you want to just grab by the shoulders and be like Yo Morgie, read the room, buddy It feels like that proves that his credentials are fake because it's how did you get into a secret society when this is the kind of personality that you're coming in with? Yeah. Although I do kind of like his angle. like maybe he's sort of like, why would that be so secret? Like come on, let' Let's open this up. Most guys like that start their own little cult though, you know,'re trying to you're right.and on someone else's baby. He was too early. He had that Starbucks energy. and it didn't make sense back then. you know One on every corner. Let's do this thing. Yeah. he would have thrived today today a Starbucks in a Starbucks world. That's right. The final blow for Morgan within the Masonic establishment came without warning. There was a petition to establish a new lodge that was formmerally presented to the Freemasons Grand chapter by other more prominent Batavian Masons Morgan's name had been quietly removed from this petition and then to add insult to injury, he was just cut off from the chapter entirely. Now at this point, a reasonable person might reflect on the cold shoulders and the closed doors the and just conclude like this particular secret society was just not the right fit And William Morgan was not that person He was not that guy. That's not her guy. I think he may I think he may have been Hissed or hurt or some combination of but there's a lot of there's shame and rage going on here Y. He's an eighteen hundreds Karen, it sounds like. He's just going to get in there and ask to see the manager of the Masons. Exactly. He's a chat. Yeah Our boy is not going down at I By summer of eighteen twenty six, Morgan had partnered with a newspaper publisher named David Cade Miller, and together they announced plans to publish a tell all expose called Illustrations of Masonry, a detailed account of everything Morgan had witnessed in the lodges Priced at a dollar a copy and promoted heavily, the book would, according to historian AP. Bentley, writing in eighteen seventy four, disclose the quote secrets of Masonry in hopes to make a fortune out of the gaping curiosity of the vulgar Oh, that's me right, That's kind of a harsh trh for just being like a curious member of society I just want to know what weird shit you're doing behind closed doors with those outfits on. Why does that make me vulgar? Yeah. When if you make some stuff up along the way, like? How would we know? All the better Yeah Yeah. well that does that's an interesting cononnection, Georgia, Like maybe the Masons weren't just afraid of their secrets getting out. They were afraid of Morgan making shit up. Yeah. because That was a problem with secrets. If no one knows, you can pretty much say anything you want. And that's that's That's really the the the freeway for conspiracy theories, right Like that's why That's why there's consonspiracy theories are just so So damn fun for people because he can't prove them wrong. Right. And it taps that thing of like, imagine if. And imagine if when these doors close, all these weird old sixty year old men are doing like the are doing like witch spells or something where it's like what it's like goes into the realm of fantasy almost. Yeah. There's always something a little bit sassy and fun about the whistleblower who's also like Like I'm going to burn it down and I'm going to profit off of this. So Yeah. enjoy Just it is watchatch the bonfire He is like you do have to be in a true iconoc cllass to do that where you're just like, it's I'm here. I'm a visionary. I'm going to be the one. No one everyveryone else is a joiner. I'm an exploder kind of vibe. Maybe they should have like, you know, waited a little bit to confirm that someone wasn' int a snitch They told them everything about skulls and yeah, you know. Hey guys, maybe in our vetting process we filter out the drunken gambling addicts. Like that feels like a liability I mean then every gone. totally's That's really that's what makes them one of us. I mean, let's be honest. Needless to say, the Uber influential Freemasons were about all of this. almost immediately, things started going sideways. Miller's print shop was hit by a series of mysterious fires. Miller blamed the Masons for sabotage. Others, however suspected Morgan himself was setting these fires convinced that a little chaos might drum up some buzz ahead of the book's fall launch Which how funny is it like that's so modern. it's so modern. feel And the fact that people would call him out and be like, That's fake, you're faking it. Right. You're just trying to get your name in the papers. Maybe it's based on how big were the fires? Was it just in the corner of the shop? And it's like it was definitely him. It's like, how much burned, how much loss was there? Right? Did any of your books get burned? No, notot a single one? Yeah That's weird Although the Freemasons also had like serious motive here. So ye. it's so so if it was a false flag, it was a damn shrewd one. It was it was very well thought out. Th basaces are protecting Hundreds of years of of that ritual. By September, Morgan had become what the Masons considered a serious liability And it turns out when you anger a fraternal organization with deep ties to local law enforcement Minor inconveniences start finding you at an impressive frequency U OMorgi was arrested multiple times that month on a rotating carousel of small charges And nobody was lining up to vouch for him He was always released, however. This was clearly like a harassment campaign. That is until september eleventh, eighteen twenty six When he was arrested, one final time, this time for borrowing a shirt and tie from a local pub owner and just not giving it back. It's really rude. Again Its rude. you arrested for being a bad friend? Yeah. That doesn't make sense. Honestlyonestly's getting aly bad.'ust like a mildly annoying for Yeah It's kind of typical friend. Yeah. Can you just give it back? It's a typical friend Are you guys are you calling each other out at this moment? ow it to someone have somebody else's scarf? Georgia has my tie and I'm fious about it. All right. This larceny charge was quietly dropped, but that is when this separate bar tab of two dollars sixty five cents materialized just in time to keep him there overnight And then the following day, september twelfth, shit God. Pray. That is the night of the aforementioned abduction when he screamed murder, murder, murder. And we actually have an artistic rendering of this moment Let's take a look. S, did you draw this? No. Oh, wow They're really hustling on into that carriage, aren't they? Someone has a lantern, the. What'al murder if he's gagged Mm It's like every sccooby doo episode where it's like, oh yeah, that doesn't completely silence the person just some cloth right there. And unless there's a ball in there. Yeah. that goes crazy. You can tell the horses are agitated. They're very upset. and they know t they have that sixth sense The horses are like, this guy' a bullshitter. donon't let him in this carriage After the abduction, Morgan's wife, Lucinda, and his publishing buddy Miller demanded an investigation. Go Lucinda, all right. Yeah. eighteen year old Lucinda. Yeah, That's right. I mean at this point, she's a little older, but what followed was one of the most damning public scandals the Freemasons had ever faced. fififty four lodge members were indicted for Morgan's kidnapping, ten were convicted, and at least four were handed prison sentences ranging from one month to two years. but Because no one could confirm exactly what happened to Morgan There were no consequences for his likely murder The question of whether he was even dead remained technically unanswered. The Masons had stayed quiet. The trail had gone cold and the courts's hands were Tide. That's an interesting thing of that it's all the powerful people, and then he gets arrested and actually brought to trial where it's like the judge is here, then the judge's like the judge is overseeing the trial. Now the judge is on trial because it's like those are all, that's why that's such a good system is like all the power the power retains itself So like You mean good for them Good for the Masons. I mean for theasons. It's good for the good old boys because like old bo. like got someone on every, you know Yeah They run all of the institutions. Yeah. So like, whether it's the courts, the prisons, the legal system, the, you know, the banks, like they got they had all the cheddar. It's all working for them. Look get all the secrets Maybe they just threw them on a ship though to like Europe and He went and started a new life. Yeah. T a vacation. Right? Yeah, who knows? It's interesting the level of institutional discipline was on display here. L they never, the Masons were so tight lipped about all of this and the people who did actually serve time, that was for the kidnapping. It was not for the murder. Um, they couldn't there was no No way to verify he was murdered So, u, All of this All of this crazy effort on the part of the Freemasons did not manage to stop the book from being released. Miller Miller published it anyway in eighteen twenty seven. Yeah. Can we get that book? I want that book so bad. You can. Yeah can. Yeah Illustrations of masonry. gotot so excited. you can get that book. I think it's it's the contents are fairly lame by twenty first century standards, but at the time it was this book was extremely scandalous and it was a bestseller, which only fanned the flames of speculation around Morgan's disappearance. So again We're in way upstate western New York around the finger Lakes of New York, which is like very like rural today. So time It's kind of the hinterlands of American settlement and Um, and yet This so you wouldd think this is like kind of like a local dispute, a local crime Yeah, but it's blowing up. in part because this book really catches fire. And in the months that followed, two competing theories emerged. The first circulated by several Masons was that Morgan had been taken across the border into Canada and paid five hundred dollars to disappear permanently and never return to the US. Georgia you nailed that. The second theory was a lot darker, according to this account The New York Masons had attempted to hand Morgan off to their Canadian counterparts who refused to get involved and left with no other option, the New York men weighted Morgan down with stones and dropped him into the Niagara Rriver This was not just an idle rumor. Several Masons maintained it was the truth until their dying days, including a man named Henry L. Valence, who claimed direct knowledge of Morgan's fate and named the Niagara River as his final resting place. Gothoffa vibes. Yeah. It's so extreme though It's like you guys you got together because you're brick layers and plasterers and you can build amazing stuff. Now you're knocking people off to keep your secret handshake a secret It just is so they're out over their skis. I'm sorry to be judgmental of the Masons, but I don't like this at all. Everyone deserves access to high quality affordable health care no matter what. And that's why millions of people rely on Planned Parenthood health centers for services like cancer screenings, wellness exams, birth control, STI tests, and more. In fact, one in three women in the US have been to Planned Parenthood for care. so it kind of blows my mind that lawmakers are trying to permanently shut them down. 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BlueVicto involves contact with radioactivity which may increase the risk for cancer and cause fetal harm If plenty of fluids urinate often, use contraception and talk to your doctor about ways to reduce the risk of exposing others to radiation during and after treatment Bluo can cause low levels of blood cell counts, kidney problems, and infertility. Tell your doctor if you have weakness, pale skin, shortness of breath bleeding, or bruising more easily, an infection or changes in urination. Side effects include decreased blood cell counts, tiredness, dry mouth, nausea, appetite loss, joint or back pain and constipation. Ask your doctor about Buvicto because every day without cancer progression H is a victory. visituvicto. com to learn more The Second World War was the largest event in human history twenty part documentary series with Tom Higs. No part of the globe was untouched, No life unchanged experience the ultimate account of World War II. Every single person had a story. These are the stories that make us who we are Iome Hanks, new episode Monday at eightight, part of History Honors two hundred fifty onlyn on the history channel Apparently, they were having lots of meetings in the lead up to this. There's accounts of these meetings where they had really cryptic conversations where they so they weren't like on the record as being like, let's murder this guy, but it was very clear what they were talking about. It's just like, wasn't there someone there to just be like, youw guys, you! bad. Also, when the book comes out, like nothing really interesting comes to light. So maybe they just didn't fuckking Excuse. Well, it was interesting at the time. Okay. It was like again, it was a very salacious top selling book at the time And maybe they knew the secret that they thought he was going be like maybe the secret that they thought he was going to expose was way worse. He just didn't know it. So it is like that there O, right? There's a little maybe this is origins of baby eating, I'm sorry to say. like something real creepy that You know, culturally comes up every twenty years where it's like, you know, the satanic panic or these things that happen culturally The witch hunt Freemason fire.. you just you just birthed a conspiracy and I'm here for it. Yay, Be careful, Karen. Watch your back I' just you know too much Needless to say the courts failed to deliver justice, but the Court of public opinion was a different story. The trial and the rumors surrounding it had done real damage to the Freemasons' public perception and not just in New York but all across the country. suddenly, they were no longer chic and their integrity was widely questioned This anti messasonic sentiment wasn't just a flashpoint in time. We're about to see how far reaching this would become and how it would change America's political landscape forever. You ready for this part This is going to get a little civxy. I'm just gonna to warn you, but not too much. Not too much. So William Morgan's book wasn't the only anti Masonic book to be released and this next one caused a serious stir. In eighteen twenty nine, a minister named Elder David Bernard became the Freemasason's next great headache. Bernard had climbed fifteen degrees within the organization before his own investigation into Morgan's disappearance left him so disturbed that he walked away entirely and then wrote a book about it complete with a posthumous portrait of William Morgan. Say what you want about this man's methods, but he understood marketing. William Morgan's murder had become very sensational So what really set this book apart were Bernard's firsthand accounts of confronting his superiors about Morgan's fate. What they told him was chilling. According to Bernard, One Mason had informed him five weeks before the abduction That multiple meetings had already been held to decide what to do about Morgan, that his writing was, in the Mons's words, quote, the greatest piece of depravity he ever knew, that some measures must be taken to stop it, that he would be one of a number to put him out of the way. So America had quite a response when this book came out and again, not favorable to the Masons Mason owned newspapers were boycotted. Political candidates with Masonic ties watched their numbers collapse. The backlash was swift and massive. By eighteen twenty eight, anti Mason candidates were winning elections across the board and even sitting presresident John Quincy Adams felt compelled to publicly declare that he had never been and would never be a freemason Wh wow I I just think it's so funny when a president has to publicly distance himself from a social circle. R right. Right? It feels it's like the eighteen thirties version of I have never met Jeffrey Epstein or hung out with him in any wayay. It making me really sad honestly, that these people are getting all these consequences for things that like aren't that bad by today's standards, you know? We've gone consequence free Eactly Yes. Yeah, there there's, I mean, one of the things that might set our shows apart is that a lot of murders go unsolved and whatnot. But in a lot of murders, like people go to jail. And the stories I cover accccountability is virtually non existent. L snppoos, big blunders, the big mistakes throughout history People just bury it they walk away or walk away orr they're just people who have such extraordinary power already that they can't be held accountable. Which kind of feels like part of it because when it's like a secret society where they have all the power, but it's such a small group Does't society always kind of want to get rid of those? It's like they're waiting for that. You know, that takeakedown. It's it's modern day the internet attack or whatever where Yeah we love a good a good collapse. They cancel culture right back then. Well, and that's what happened. The lodges, the Masonic lodges started to close and there had been roughly four hundred fifty of them in eighteen twenty five by eighteen thirty Fewer than eighty two remained in the country, and out of the wreckage emerged something that would permanently alter the architecture of American politics. Antiasonic sentiment grew so large proponents formed their own political party called annti Masonic partarty pretty on the nose, right? But it is actually still very significant to this day. The Ati Masonic Party was the first official third party in our nation's history. It was a genuine alternative to Andrew Jackson's Democrats, and the national Republicans. soon to be the Whigs They even organized the country's first ever presidential nominating convention in eighteen thirty, which is now a tradition that both major parties follow and have followed ever since. I'm pretty sure William Morgan would have been psyched about that. Yeah, right He made he made a lasting effect Maybe he was from Canada. Really excited about it. Yeah Yeah, it's just up there in Canada watching all this like counting bills right on. Well, the Ati Masonic Party had a remarkable run. It was also short lived. As it turned out, shared outrage over the Freemasons was not quite enough to hold a political coalition together. Once the initial fury began to cool, the party found it had littleittle else in common, and it fractured accordingly. The Ati Masonic Party technically still exists today, but it has never again come close to the influence it held in those early years. This is also very modern in a way. The Ati Masons were wildly successful at channeling public rage, less successful at the whole forming a coherent political identity beyond hating others, which feels like also A moment we're in Right Definitely. Rge is a very powerful force. It's also driving our social media likeike the big tech companies basically are Exploiting our rage, right? Yeah. That's how they get you and then you're somehow you're immediately paying for something or buying something or that reaction is like getting you in that way. Exactly. Well, as for old Willie Morgan himself, nobody ever found out what truly happened to him. In the years that followed his disappearance, unverified sightings trickled in, some claimed to have spotted him traveling through the Ottoman Empire. I saw him. I saw him. He was a guy was on top of Vanilla. He He had a string in his mouth and he was yelling murder. Yeah. He was walking along the top of the greatreat wall. I swear. I saw him. That's so funny to me. just like they saw him in the traveling through the Ottoman Empire. Others swore he'd turned up in the Cayman Islands living as a pirate. Of course, this is the famame Captain Morgan. it I mean, it's not amaz That actual pirate that is a real pirate who has an actual story. but and some nice rum. I think some people yeah. some yummy rum. But I think I think this sort of got convoluted with into that. And then there's of course the Niagara Rriver theory, which which several people actually maintained to their death and u in in my veryer amateur historian view is the most plausible, right? He was just dumped in the river You don't think they would have found some trace of him. I mean, Well, I, you know, I skipped over this before, but they they body did wash up And Lucinda It was like a year later, so badly decomposed. but Lucinda said, yeah, that is him, I can tell by his teeth. And but then another woman was like, ah no, sorry, honey, that's my husband. I can tell by the clothes he's wearing and the fact that he has a full head of hair. and our guy was bald. So That's not Very conclusive. I don't know. The Niagara River is huge. Also, what if it's the like Stone Mason Bricklayer thing where they kn they know exactly what kind of stones to weighight a body down with to make it disappear forever. style. Yeah, This is so my favorite murder of you.ike I love how you're thinking. I just like They knew how to do it. They knew And you're acting like they didn't get together every Tuesday night to talk about how to murder. That's what the secret was. char I love that you also said