Fatherhood Conferences in Correctional Facilities

Welcome to the Sound of Ideas from Iea Stream Public Media. I'm Stephanie Haney. Thank you for being with us For many parents, maintaining a relationship with their children isn't simply a matter of showing up or waking up in the morning Divorce, incarceration, financial hardship, and other life circumstances can create distance between parents and their kids On top of those challenges, some parents face systemic barriers from navigating the court system to finding stable housing or employment And often fathers are the ones that may experience separation from their child due to these circumstances But research shows that when fathers show interest in their children's lives, their health, learning, and confidence improve while risks like poverty and behavioral challenges are reduced. oday we're joined by Northeast Ohioans who are working to help fathers overcome those obstacles, strengthen their parenting skills, and build lifelong healthy relationships. With me today in studio, we have Margaret Bernstein, author of Dad's Story Books and literacy advocate, Margaret, welcome to the show. Thank you for inviting me. Very happy to have you here We also have with us Randall Jellison, Fatherhood proroject manager at the Early Childhood Resource Center in Canton. Randy, thanks for being here. Oh, thank you so much for having. Thank you. And also with us, we have LeBron Torerell, Fatherhood coach at Passages in Cleveland. LeBron, welcome. Thank you. Thank you so much If you would like to join this conversation, you can call us at eight six six five seven eight zero nine zero three. Maybe you have a question about resources for fathers. Maybe you have a story you'd like to share about your own parenting or your own experience with your father growing up. You can also email us at SOI at ideaStream. org or you can message us on Instagram or at the Sound of ideas LeBron, I'd like to start with you and ask you about passages It's served low income families here in Northeas Ohio for more than two decades. Can you tell us how passassages got started and how the mission has grown? Of course. So my name is LeBrona Rll, of course, and I'm a Fatherhood coach at Passages Connecting Fathers and families. where we serve Most of the counties and my favorite three, of course that right now we're working with are, of course, Cleveland which is Caga County, we have Lake and Lorraine County. Now about passages, our goal isn't just to connect the fathers and families, but to also strengthen those fathers and strengthen those families. So that way those strong families turn into strong communities. Now to your point, the communities that we also want to strengthen are the ones that we don't see, which are the ones that are also incarcerated as well. becausecause we also deal with incarcerated fathers And we have programs for fatherhood on different journeys. But it started off as an actual transportation sort of organization to actually help incarcerated fathers see their children From there, the fruits of the labor of Dr. Moore, who is our CEO then graduated into what we know now as passages, connecting fathers and families. and where now we host fatherhood sessions, career stability Housing employment. We have housing and employment actually. We also have basic needs assistance, literally anything that a father needs when he's coming through those doors. It's my job but also the organization's job to meet. And also to your point, I love how you also said the two decades part. It's amazing how we have dads who've graduated from the program literally two decades ago and are still coming in just sort of providing fruits of their labor and sort of giving hope and also giving the energy and the accountability and helping us with the other fathers who are seeking that same assistance. R full circle in some ways for some people for sure. Randy, tell us a bit about the programming at the early Childhood Resource Center in Cans Yeah, sure. So We got our roots. We're a ministry man where we just We want to see the child thrive. We're all about, you know, one of the motts around there is that Everything centers around the child Um, you know, our roots are in the Catholic Ministry of Nuns coming over established in hospitals, really just taking care. the core needs of humanity and I believe it was around two thousand The Ely Childhood Resource Center came underneath that banner and started working with Children in kindergarten readiness. So you know, we got a SpA program. We're a childcare referral U we step up the quality. we work with child care agencies to help increase what they're doing with value and just Um my my my sliver is with fatherhood. I work with fathers. and so Fatherlessness is my business. and man, I just got a real compassion in heart to see dad Engage with his children. and so I'm sure we'll be getting into it talking about it, But Ironclad Dad is our latest initiative that We're working to kind of hit the blue collar, white collar add. and so we've done a a lot of work in reentry. That's kind of been our bread and butter, and we just really kind of recently been trying to reach out to the rest of the community. Yeah We will be hearing more about that in just a little bit. That's what we call a deep tease for our audience.. And Margaret, you co authored a book called The Bond. and that followed three men who reconnected with their fathers. That later led to you creating dads story books. That's a series that you work on children's books Why did you decide to focus your writing on the father child relationship Yes. so when I was a reporter at the Ple dealer, I had the opportunity to write about these three guys who were called the Th doctors. At the time, they had a New York Times bestseller called the PC about how they grew up and met each other as students at a junior high school in Newark, New Jersey grew up in a poor neighborhood and they happen to Um get invited to an opportunity to get a free college and dental school scholarship and medical school scholarships So Their first book was a runaway hit. and so I interviewed them. and wrote about them on the front page of the Pain dealer, and they invited me to write their next book They like my story so much So their next book, they wanted to really dive into the fact that they had succeeded despite not having fathers in their lives, and they thought that had had a profound impact on them and given them even more challenges as they navigated college and medical school and dental school the first in their family to do so. And so as I was researching the book, I just became really intrigued and moved by all the statistics that surround Children who grew up without fathers in their lives Those young people are more likely to perform poorly in school. They're more likely to drop out of school. They're more likely to have a teen pregnancy, to try drugs, alcohol at an early age They're more likely to get arrested and become incarcerated. And so as I looked at all of these stats and included them in the book I just asked myself, what can I do and I'm just one person, but this is these are staggering statistics that really are going to hold children back, and I wanted to do something. And so that's why I started writing dad's story books. Thanks for sharing that with us, Margaret L Bron, I want to ask you why did you decide to become a Fatherhood coach? Yes. So personally, let me go ahead and give them a little shout out to have two amazing daughters name Malani and Mahogany and honestly It is a blessing and like I was telling Randall to see the fruits of my labor literally come into fruition, just to now be working at passages and give the same seeds that I'm still learning and growing as a twenty eight year old to be able to then pass that on to men who are older than me and For me, I preach all the time, childildren don't need your presence. Well, no, they don't need your perfection. they need your presence. That's something that I just think as a father, that's really something that we beat ourselves up on is it's not good enough. And I just try to shape and mold that expectation because it's not bad to have expectations. It's a matter of putting yourself into reality and understanding that now you have to sacrifice some of those selfish expectations because it's bigger than you And that's part of the strengthening, where sometimes a dad who isn't facing incarceration, who's just a regular father, may need case assignment or may need just housing resources or anything It's my job just to make sure and sort of what Margaret said, I just felt like I've always blessed and with a calling just to help people because I've always thought is something always bigger than me And I just believe strengthening, giving the hope, but also understanding that comoming from a strong family. I'm blessed to be able to give that to other communities any level that I can Um, and also personally I'm not going lie. likeike J Waking up and being blessed to really be able to do something that is bigger than me is something that I can never ever take for granted, just because I understand how hard it is for employment services as a whole. just waking up and being able to literally understand and let my daughters know that I'm changing lives. That says a lot to me. and also it says a lot for my daughters because on career day last year, That was something my daughter spoke about is, you know, my dad changes lives. And I thought that was very, very sentimental because if my daughter can see the fruits of my labor of what an active, what an accountable, what a responsible father can be and how I can share that to other communities There's no telling where father hick can go.. Soin know one of your children is old enough to have a career day. How old are you your girls? So I have a six year old who will be in first grade this year and then I have a two year old. I was just telling one loves ballet and dancing. The other one, I have a few shin splints and shin guards because that one she just loves kicking I honestly just love everything about family, and I just do believe a great, strong family, one thousand percent, can affect a whole community If you're just join us here on the San of Idas, we are talking about the father child connection. If you have a comment or a question, you can give us a call at eight six six five seven eight zero nine zero three. You can also email us at SOI at ideastream dot orga or you can send us a message on Instagram at the Sound of ideeas Now let's start to talk about some of those tens that make for a successful father child dynamic. Margaret, you work with an organization called the Healthy Fathering Coaborative of Greater Cleveland. I'd like to ask what you've learned there through your involvement there about building trust between children and parents, both repairing trust maybe when it's been broken, and also establishing trust if there hasn't been a relationship that's already been formed Well, the Healthy Fathering Collaborative has been an awesome supporter for me One of the things that we've done is just try together to express the importance of Dads just reading with their children as a way of building the bond and repairing that trust. Sometimes while we've been talking about it this morning, even in our preparation, and Fathers who did not have role models of fathers themselves do not even know how to begin repairing the relationship didn't see one as they were growing up. And so one easy way to do that is to to read with your child and spend that time just exploring books and building that bond just by reading with them and giving them your full attention. and the the Healthy Fathering Collaborative and I have worked very hard on the the Fatherers Walk, which is an annual event that schools have where fathers are encouraged at the beginning of the school year to walk their child into school and there's a series of activities for them. This is also a very important way that dads can start to know their child's teacher and get involved and volunteer at their school. And we've been very helpful been very successful in getting the Father's Walk to build literacy. into as one of their key messages We love it when they talk to dads when they're there and give them books and just explain, you know, you've got to build that library of your child. This is something really important that fathers can do that not only helps them build the bond as we've been talking about. but um Children perform better in school when they have books in the home And so dads also can spread that message Randy, I want to ask you about fathers who aren't necessarily separated from their children, but they're trying to be better. They're trying to be more present. they're trying to enrich bond that they have access to. One of the ways you do that is through ironclad dads. So C you tell us a little bit more about that? Yeah, absolutely. I like to say it's a brotherhood around fatherhood. We meet every other Wednesday. We're getting ready to kick off our fall sessions and really just get after U, having those conversations, you know, we' were in the libb talking about what does it mean to be a man, boyhood and manhood? Some of the things that I was Just thinking of it listening to the other guests is like, you know, overcoming U, yourour own childhood traumas haveal the battle of being a dad And so this is a place where everyday Dacnd does come. and tell his story, you know, an iron can sharpen iron And we can get to a place to where we're healthy so that we can pour out into our sons and into our daughters. Man, we break bread every time we meet, man, we have home cooked meals that are donated is really just great. So we'll just come together and just You know, build relationship, friendship And then we'll get into a topic centered on fatherhood. and Just pour our lives out into the two hours it feels like five minutes. and so you know, we do some other things, you know, we just did a drills with Dad where I know Tarll was talking about his daughter beating them up. We were in the ring beating each other for up. And so we were having a great time doing that. you know. My oldest son, he I think was waiting, he couldn't wait. We were sitting at dinner one night and I said, Hey, man, you come to the drills with dad, right And he's like, o, we're boxing. He just kind of looked up at me, gave me some eye contact, like I've been waiting for this for a long time. So But you know, man, we just we want to grow together, you know, with dad. And it takes time to do that, you know. G aad. And we ask LeBron, how old are your child kids? Yeah, yeah. so I got a blended family, which I feel like is just unique or not unique, but it gives me some relatability too Dad everywhere. So I got five kids. I got eighteen, sixteen And then got remarried and we got six four And two. So four boys. Yeah, four boys, one girl So my house is lively and I moved my father in law in too. So we got eight people in about fif thousand five hundred square feet. and so root is awesome. Yeah, yeah Qite a crew Quite a crew you got there. Speaking of, we had the opportunity to talk to a member of your ironclad dad's crew. Yeah. This is twenty nine year old Evan Kessler. Evan has a five year old son n of August and a four month old daughter named Lily Here's an excerpt of my conversation with Evan. For me, it wasn't necessarily like a connection issue. It was more so of looking for an organization that could equip me with the tools that I needed to learn about how to be a better dad, not just now But as you know August continues to get older and you know, like I said, different stages as we move through them together, how I can be the best possible. So So like more specifically now, you know, the organization called Ironclad Dads has really given me more confidence as I continue to father August, especially with just learning more about you know how I'm not alone in the challenges that other fathers face with younger kids, especially boys, right? Like boys tend to have tend to have a little bit more energy and are a little bit more rambunctious, maybe a little bit more on the dangerous side So learning how to patients. really control my response, know, making sure it's not necessarily an anger response, but talking to August is is you know, also teaching him the values of, you know, I am dead, but I'm also not your enemy. know, So just kind of like coddling, you know help helping that relationship as far as you know really in the best way possible manage caght my attention, but yeah, it was it was just a flyer at his preschool. Are there ways that you can tell us that you've seen a difference? Has there been a difference in the relationship with August since you started using the services of Ion Clad Dads Yeah, absolutely give me community as well So like that with that community of other dads who you know, because there's guys that are younger than me in their early twenties who are becoming exams all the wayight to guys and their're sixties and seventies. So it's really cool to be able to share my experiences with and just to allow their insight in u, you know, how we how we connect you know, and it's it's just helped grow our bonds together as father and son. With August and with the new addition, Definitely. y. I will say we are blessed in the sense that August absolutely loves his baby sister U so that that is a blessing. She absolutely adores him. She can't keep her ey you know, can't keep her eyes off of him when he's playing with her and U So that's that's been really beautiful to see them kind of come together, but absolutely, it does you know, with withith August technically not being from my wife who I'm married to now, it you know, coming from a little bit of like a divided home, so to speak, it definitely has created new things that have come up and essentially we just kind of work through them and you know, because obviously a new baby requires a lot of attention So with that, August has and therefore receive less attention. and you know, so just kind of working through that and just, you know, reaffirming, you know, we love him and you know, he might not always get all the attention that he wants, but in that, that's also teaching him patience. So There's been some really beautiful things that have transpired through the new challenges that have come. One final question here before we wrap up, Evan, what is your custody relationship like with August? How much time are you spending with him? And has that changed since being involved with Ironclad deaths Even before Iron Clan Dads, I was seeing him every other week. So the time time period or amount of time that we were having together or haven't changed. but Ironclad as has really helped with the connection piece and the quality and of the time that we have together likeike I said, just Iron Creds has just kind of help break down some barriers that were there that you know, I I hadn't even realized I had placed their whether that be you know, inadvertently or you know, maybe from trauma that I that I went through with my own father. things that I hadn't yet healed through. so Not only has Iironclad dads helped me as a father I've learned that, you know I was also a son at one time and had a father that did his best but wasn't perfect. So breaking that generational trauma, so to speak and kind of working through my own healing and being made aware of that has led to an amazing Like I said, connection my son and just the quality of time that we have together is so much better and just full of love That was twenty nine year old Evan Kessler of Navarre, Ohio in Stark County, not far from my hometown in Canton. And he's an ironclad dad's participant, which is out of the early childhood resource Center in Canton If you're just joining us here on the Sound of Idas, we are talking about the father child relationship If you want to be a part of this conversation, you can call us at eight six six five seven eight zero nine zero three You can email us at SI at ideasstream. org. You can also send us a message on Instagram at the sound of ideas We have a call now from Todd in Ward one. Todd, welcome to the Sound of Idas Go ahead. Hey, Stephanie, Margaret, Randall and LeBron I am a dad multiple times over, gratefully. and this is connected to something that me and a few other people are putting together planning, parenthood prior to conception So this broadcast is of particular interest to me I'd like to know if any of you have worked to explain in detail with the fathers that you work with is that the purpose of your existence in life is changed on she become a parent And because that purpose of your existence has changed you have to learn to embrace the consequences of health being there for the healthy prrotection in the healthy progression and what that means of that child. Do you talk with them either in those exact words or words that connect to those exact pursuits. let me know I'd like to hear how you feel about it. And if you didn't grasp exactly what I said, I'll repeat it. but go ahead I think we got a good gasp. goo ahead. I didn't want to speak first. You can for sure. Okay. for sure, what I would say is One thousand percent going into what R Randy said about his ironclad, we also talk about the twenty four seven dad When and within those twenty four seven dad situations, one of those situations could be what it means to be a man. And a lot of those situations when a dad is going into our curriculum, he either a to your point, is a newborn or new expecting father, or he's already a currently father. And I think the question of what you're talking about is one, accountability and sacrifices. We literally were just sort of before this even started discussing about What is important and what love is because I wanted to talk about Evan as well. Evan said something that was very important U Lo is what you do in spite of how you feel Um, and We say that to dad because to your point, your love also evolves because before you know, your child came, you only thought to love yourself Now to your point, you have to sacrifice that selfishness of love about yourself and now you have to pour that on into your child which is going right into the strengthening part becausecause at the end of the day to what you said, Mr. Warren is, again, I already know Mr. Randy has already said it. We're all here to strengthen each other And especially if you are an expecting dad, this is literally it's like, you don't know how to swim And you're about to dive right into the eight feet And the only thing you do is that four letter word and hope that you don't drown But liter do you know, You are in Ward one and I would definitely say if you definitely want to, man, again, we are in Cleveland, let us know and definitely come on down because for sure, we would love to partner with you, but I agree we sort of say the same sentiments at the end of the day. acccountability and really understanding that you're not alone. there is a support system, You don't want to evolve, man, it's time to evolve. And I do believe that's exactly what you're preaching to the other father. so I agree with you. Yeah. Randy, how about for you? Yeah, no, I think that preparation is key. You know, I was a dad trial by fire with my first one for sure. and I think M dads are in that trial by fire situation, you know you know, twenty four seven dad is a curriculum we teach and there's a flow chart in there It talks about, you know, a boy should become a man and then a man should become a husband and then that husband should become a father, you know, just would a Testosterone load is peking in minute at nineteen years old. Easy for a boy. to become a father without ever experiencing manhood in his fullness. And so U I advocate, you know, for marriage and strong foundation so that those kids can have mom and dad in the home together. I feel like that is the best preparation is making sure person that you want to have that baby with is someone that's willing to stick around for a lifetime And if you can find the right one, you can start to insert your family value, you can start to insert It's just the threads that you want to raise your family in. And, you know, that's key. So Build a strong foundation and spend time with those kids. You know, the things that You don't have marked out and you won't be able to cross all the T's and dot all the I's. But when you cross those bridges, you know, if love is the foundation, that foundation is strong You know, whether it's, you know, reading a good book or, you know, trial and error. thingsings are going to come together for you, man. so Just let love be that umbrella for all things and build a strong foundation, create something that's lifelong Thank you for that, Randy. Speaking of reading a good book, Margaret, you brought a book. Can you share an excerpt of it with us and let us know which book it is you're reading from? Sure. And I want to just give it up for these two gentlemen who are really out here in the trenches working to build that confidence and shore up these men and let them know that they can do it. I really admire you guys in the way I see it. My books are tools that you can use or schools can use or whoever is really working with dads that you can use to help build their confidence and help them know that they can do this My first book is the one I'm going to read from. It's called All in a Dad's Day. And it's just a short and sweet storybook that a dad I always envision dads reading this to their kids. I'm very proud that there's thousands of them in circulation. They are self published. and I do just It's a labor of love. I'm trying to give Dad's a book that really reflects their own experiences, Illustrations, which are by Lincoln Adams show that they show a dad who is in there in the you know, in there working with his kids and giving his kids love. It starts out Dad, if I got lost at the circus, what would you do? I'd leap onto an elephant's back and search the crowd for you What if I went to the beach and got caught in a rip tide? I'd grab you quick and keep you safe right here by my side? And what if my only wish dad was to go to a big game with you Then I'd save my money and stack it up to make your dream come true I'm your dad and don't you see, you never have to worry as long as you've got me And so it goes on just to show different scenarios of things that a dad can do with his child, but also I always say just quietly allowing the dead to say, I love you on every page. I'm just going to grab this book and while you tell us just a little bit more about the ustrator, I just want to show some of these images here to our audio audience. How did you connect with the illustrator on this book, Margaret. All right, Well, great story. As I said, they're self published. I had a little teeny, tiny budget. and so I called over to Cleveland Institute of Art ask could they possibly recommend a student And as it turned out, Lincoln Adams is the head of the Iillustration deepartment. And when I explained the project to him, he said that he would like to do it And I was like, I told you about that little budget that I had And he said, I want to do it anyway And anyway, just very proud to have him and his beautiful artwork as part of this book. Thank you for sharing that with us. There is an element of your two programs, and Margaret, there's something that you had a recent experience with as well that I want to make sure that we talk about today. LeBron, one of your key programs that you have are the Fatherhood confferences. and these take place inside correctional facilities. So can you tell us a bit about that conference and why these experiences are so meaningful Three minutes for the conversation. No problem. So actually, I will go ahead and beat this up reallyally what I'm good at. Now from a standpoint of the Fatherhood conferences, we actually will be going to one this weekend. We will be at Lake Erie Correctional to literally empower grow water, all of the fathers to your point and also Margaret's point from a standpoint of understanding two things They need your presence, not your perfection And love is what you do in spite of how you feel And we just preach that and power that over the next three days and we will be there Thursday, Friday, and Saturday and really understanding that at the end of the day, we are all given dads hope And also accountability, value, laughter, love all in three days, because we understand it is very hard especially for the incarcerated deads to see that light when they don't even have windows in their rooms. So the fact that we can be that light for them says a lot for me and also it just gives me more reason to do this. So yep, we'll be at Lake Erie Correctional. I can't wait. And for the guys who are listening in Lake Erie Watch out. We are on the way Great Randy, can you tell us a bit about the program that exists in your facility? It's called Inside Out Dad Yeah, well We really use twenty four seven Dad inside our dad just similar curriculum design for, you know incarcerated settings Um But yeah, no, it's this great curriculum and it speaks about Bys becoming men. and just getting a shot of hope to engage their sons and their daughters All kinds of things, play man just the language, man that we speak to our kids with all kinds of things are in their sex, love relationships How to control your headspace, your self worth, you know. So just A lot of great things That's coming out of those inside out dad curriculums, twenty four seven dad curriculums. but we really are excited to that hope and move him towards his children in those incarcerated settings and, you know, with ironclad dead get into situations ' helping Evan, you know, navigate things in his, you know, blended family situations and beyond. So Ironclad Dad is fresh and it's new and we're excited about growing in that Stark community. so Margaret, can you share a little bit with us about the experience that you recently had related to being supportive of fathers who might be incarcerated I was invited to go to the Cuyoga Hills Juvenile detention facility where they were having a Dad' summit. All weekend long, that was coordinated by the state, Department of Youth Services. It was a beautiful thing and they had all kinds of staff in from Columbus to to celebrate these men And their children actually were allowed to come in on Saturday morning and they could spend time with them. And of course, these are juveniles. So their children were very young, babies, toddlers someome of the first time that they're really able to spend with them, it was very moving. And I really thought, and this is to your caller, Todd's point that the message to these dads was, you know, this is your chance. to overcome whatever it is I put you here. and do this You know, do this over for the benefit of your children. This is the moment when you get it together. And so look your child in the eye and let them know that you will do better when you get out. And so I was very profound I was able to hand out my books thanks to a sponsorship and I was able to teach those young dads tips for reading with their kids because they really didn't, you know, they didn't know. And it was a great opportunity. Thank you very much for sharing your time with us here on this panel today. Margaret Bernstein literacy advocate and author of Dad's story books, Mararet, thank Also a personal friend, former coworker. Appreciate you being here. And Randall Jellison, Fatherhood proroject mananager at the early Childhood Resource Center in Canton. Thank you, Randy. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Leron Terrell, Fatherhood cooach at passassages here in Cleveland. Thankk you for the time. Of course, of course. And also have one more thing. I'm so sorry We talked about marriage and I'm married, and I think this is not understated, but behind every strong man is even stronger woman And I think people really need to understand that as well. So thank you again for having me. Well unexpected shout out. That's very, very kind. Margaret over here's giving us s. Yes. This is what we do in passages. This is what we do. Thank you so much for the time. We appreciate it We're going to take a quick break now and when we come back, we'll share a conversation with longtime co host of Big Chuck and Little John, John Rinaldi about his new book Reflecting on his time in television. This is the Sound of ideeas. I'm Stephanie Haney, Stay with us Here with the sound of ideas from ideeS Stream and public media, I'm Stephanie Haney. Thank you for staying with us. Generations of Clevelanders grew up watching the Big Chuck and Little John show and Hulahan in Big Chuck on Friday nights. Ide Stream Public media's senior arts and culture reporter Kabir Bata got to speak with one of the stars of the show, Little John himself who has a new book out about his life and work We can't take your calls right now, but we do welcome your thoughts. You can email us at SOI at ideaStream. org or message us on Instagram at the Sound of Ias Here's that conversation My guess, in case you've sworn off television for the last fifty five years Really needs no introduction other than that. Please welcome, Little John Rinaldi, welcome. thank you It's good to be here. I like this set. This is pretty cool. Yeah, this is the new set here at Iea Stream and we figured who better to be on it than you with this new book? They wouldn't let me on the set at the Fox eight I tried to get them to rename the street for you here. No dice. They nameamed the lane. The lane that's what it is A channel eight. Yes. You've got the lane. Dick Goddard wayay and Little John Lane. Yeah, rightight at the intersection there. Well, what mine is is a thirty five foot cybber Okay, o, that nobody uses. Oh no they can't get in the front door anymore. Oh a security netun. have to go through the side door. Yeah. Oh no.. The other way It's still lane. It's still lane. You still got something. That's permanent That and this book, which which I know that well, let me ask you the first thing I was wondering. Of course, your longtime on screen partner Big Chuck, he sadly, of course, passed away, but I' my birthday. Oh That's right. You mentioned that in the book, Your birthday last year. Well, he wrote his book about fifteen years ago, I think. So what made you decide now now is the time for my book? You know what? I never wanted to write a book. never, never in a million years. And a guy by the name of Carl Hendrix called me one day And he said, he's writing a book And could he interview me? And his book is fromrom Gulardi to until we went off the air. Okay. and Does he interview Hulahan, interviewed big Chuck? interviewed that card? And I said, Yeahah, I says, interview me, no problem. I said, but send me what you wrote which I tell everybody and eighty percent don't. okay? So anyway, He sent it to me and I was reading it and I turned to my wife and I said, you know This guy writes like I talk. I like this. I says, you know, I got time now. I'm retired I don't know. I to write a book. So I called him up and I said, Hey, I said, I really like the way you write and everything like that. Would you write my book for me? He goes, I'm not an author I go, what do you mean? He goes, I'm a financial advisor. He says I'm writing this book for kicks. He says, it'll never be published. He says, I'm just writing it. it. So I said, okay, you know Think about it though. So then I called three people And the first person I called, they said, now you're ten years too late. And I saidays, Well, I didn't w want to write a book ten years ag. I want to write it now. Okay. You don't have a show. you don't promote it and everything. Okay, who's writing the book? And I says, Carl Hendrix, Who's he? I said, fininancial advisor. And he said, No, no, no, no, We'll get your writer, professional writer Then I call the next guy called Neil Zurcker. and Neil says, I told you to write a book twenty years ago and I said Okay, who's writing your book Yeah. And I said, Carl Hendrx, he goes,o's he? He said a financial advisor. And he says, No, no, no, we'll get somebody to write the book for. And I said, OkayK, Then I called my old boss, Kevin Sayer. and I told him, he says, greatreat, anything I can do to help you findine. it's a great idea. whoo's writing the book? I said Carl Hendrix Who's he? a financial advisor? He goes, I'll get a We'll get a Okay. I said, good I called the guy back, Nine' met him night I was saying, okay. I called him back and I said, You're my writer. Well go. And now I know for sure And then I told him, I said, Listen, that we're not going to write a book You sit in my basement and I sit in your basement and just talk talkuck, talkuck, talkuck No. You're gonna go with me and do the things I do in regular life. And I said, so, be prepared to do a lot of drinking, a lot of eating. And that's what we did. He would show up and have little microphones just follow me around and I'd tell stories and then he put it all together. So like I said, I probably have five thousand dollars in his book on food and booze Hopefully it's going be coming back to you somehow. What you make on a book? Forget it. no, there you. Well, of course, I've read hisook mrter Zurker's book and this reads just as well. His was the one about disaster is yours is like the exact opposite. You seem to have a guuardian angel. Yeah. Wherever you're in Las Vegas, you're in Pittsburgh, you're trying to get a loan for your business and things just always click for you. It's smmoking mirrors, that's what I always said. my life has been smokeking mirrors.. Well And a lot of the book, I was glad to see Half we've them together very, very well. The TV part that we've all seen a lot of the back behind the scenes portion And then your actual life, which just sounds Idyllic growing up in an Italian family in Cleveland forties, fifty sixties. started to write the book and l this is what I want to do. He kept saying, no, no, no, you need more TV, more TV. I go, No, I want people to know. I had a life beside TV and it's a good life. I had an interesting life. I said, He goes, But everybody knows you from TV. I said I understand that. So this is what I want. So it was a fight back and forth.. Yeah. This has got a lot of great great stories and this must be sort of homecoming for you Be your store used to be just down the street, The jewelry storeect. And then channel eight. Channel eight Fustet and then I work next door used to be Collin Uubbard Oh that's yes, in that corner. That was where I started in the jewelry business was Callin Hubbard. Okay. So you were I worked there for twelve years. You were all around this area. You were here though in like the down period where the rest of the street What we now look at as the theater is the place. they were closing and Dmolishing almost It was ugly. It was ugly. A lot of it was ugly. At the store, you talk about so many incidents at your store where U something went awry, somebody came in, they left with a a ring switch Yeah. Yeah, they switched the rings or a friend's kid hit the alarm by accident. and my salesman his son They were watching a parade go by Did't realize he was behind a counter and he hit Hit the alarm and then in the middle of a parade you're. They come flying. Yeah. They come flying. Cp cars this way, keup cars this way. Yeah. And it was funny because Oh They get out of the car and you say, Ohh, there's no problem, no problem. But they did the right thing. They did the smart thing. they made us go again against the wall and then they checked the store out. to make sure nobody's in a bathroom hiding with a gun on somebody or anything. Sure. So they did the right thing. The Cleveland pololice did the right thing. So you talk a lot in the book about your family both growing up Your mom who kept the kitchen spotless and waited on you, then your wife Sherry, who is very different as far as Oh, what's the quote? The foods going to you're going to have to scoop it It doesn't You have to understand. I lived in an Italian family and my mother I didn't put my socks on until I was in the twelfth grade. okay. I used to stick my leg out of the bed. she'd put them on and go eat. you sit down, she puts a napkin around you. She gives you the right amount of food to eat, takes it away. and I bet you. I don't think I saw my mother sit down ten times to eat. Wow. becauseuse she was always waiting on my brother, my father and I and my sister and she'd go back in the kitchen. She always say she picked. Okay in between that. Now, when you talk about this, you said your wife is she's's a little bit Italian. Yeah she's about the An eighth. Yeah. Okay. I'm curious. What are the because I don't think you get into it in the book. What are the dishes? You said she's a fabulous cook? Oh, she can make anything. anythingything. And Ital just like she makes sauce, just like my mother and my mother never taught her It's amazing. No she's an amazing cook And I'll put her up against almost anybody. And we have a group of friends cook like crazy. The wives are the guys. They can cook like crazy. Oh my goodness. So that's why I got this body, you think Okay. I was gonna to say though, you look pretty much the same as I remember we interviewed about fifteen years ago. and as I remember you on TV I wonder if it's just the happiness to glow that you Well, I keep telling people it's good booze. Okay, an oil of olet. Oh well. Tw good things. But which you're only drinking one of them though. Yeah you're applying the other. G. So you were on for overall fifty five well, it's been fifty five years since your first sketch with R chock count Uill now, I'm still going. You still go. I still see you're so active on Facebook and end the that that in like, uh, They still show the show on ear runs on Sunday night. So you got to keep that going. everyvery now and then I pop up on the news. R. I do things for the news. So it's been a good run. Yeah. And considering we never had a contract Yeah, so that's what I was going to ask. You outlasted so many different regimes and executives, schchedule changes, ownership changes at Channel eight Why do you think that that was? I think you said quarterly you would wait to see if we were all at the beginning Yeah, because we didn't have to catch We'd look and see if we're still going to be there They'd come out every thirteen weeks and give you a rundown, whoo's going to be there And Well, first of all, it cost them nothing to have us. We were one hundred percent sold out, and we didn't bother anybody. I mean, we came in I came in the back door, went to the studio, went out the back door and didn't run the station or anything. So but We made our own sets, we did all our own Okay. So it was the only and we're taping when theyd either to be sitting down doing nothing or taping our show. Yeah. And so it worked out pretty well. And you would handle all the outside appearances. Yeah, Chuck was Mr. insside and I was Mr. oututside. So all the personal appearances, all the contracts, all the basketball games or all the, you know Charity events, everything. And so the inside part, as you said, he was very hands on with the editing, the sketches, but very. probablyrobably two thousand I think you estimated two thousand sketches. You have over two thousand skits and I wrote six. And I still say they're the six funniest. Okay. I saw I found the one the other day and I showed my kids where the He head of lettce which I think was one of lettuce. That was mine. Yeah. And then I copied that from I stole that from Flip Wilson. Oh he did it Well I hope he doesn't see this. No no, I don't think you No no, tough area code. But the you had half a headad of lettuce and then there was just so many different ones over the years. When you go ono like YouTube and search big Chuck littleittle John. someomebody has a playlist The best of B Chuck. There's four hundred and fifty seven different sketches just in that Can you remember the ones that eventually? Well, first, I think you're going to tell me go ahead. Usually I remember them all of if you started. I can finish it until you you know it happened and everything. What are the ones though, as time went on and you've alluded to this in the book, that the station was like, maybe don't show this one anymore? Well, again, back then It was called certain ethnic. We made fun of everybody. It wasn't, you know just Polish, Italian, blacks, white. We made fun of everybody And then as As time went on, people started getting sensitive, which I have no idea. You should not be sensitive when it's funny. Funny's funny. I don't care whether it's okay You didn't grow up watching much TV of any kind. You didn't even have TV initially except for your uncle, I think you saw Uncle. Yeahah, we got TV's when it started, but it was about this big. Right. And they weighed like seven hundred pounds. Yeah. But then there was only Three stations. Okay. And at that time it was probably only two. And I rememberum Lynn Sheldon, who was Barnaby and he was telling me that he was the original guy on television. he did the first, you know live on air in Cleveland and He said they used to go in the morning and a director would say, how long could you give me? Hedbout two hours. How long could you give me about three hours? Okay, We'll be on five hours today. Wow That's how it was. Yeah, prettyt back then. Fly by the city of your ps, I guess, back then. Very new. Yeah. But you were out You were Mr. Social on Friday nights, you weren't really Well, you know that's the thing Yeah. To this day, I'm out like that. But and that's what I love DVR because you can watch it at three in the morning at two in the morning. Yeah and So when they Chuck called and everything, I knew about the show, but it wasn't like I was glued to it every every Friday I wasn't Right. And then even when even like people would see me during the week and they'd say, Oh I saw your show last week and said, in that movie, that part, I go, I didn't watch the movie. No. Weve taped it Yeah And then they would put the movie inside. Right. Okaykay. Now everybody said, Well, when you talked about the movie, Well we had a cheat sheet They gave a rundown every fifteen minutes would happened in a movie. so we could always refer to that. Oh yeah, that Peter ran over here. R. we didn't see it. Yeah Reading the book, you don't come out and say this, but this is the sense I get. You tell me if I'm right. You and U, Chuck Your working relationship reminded me very much of and your personalities Bob Newhart and Don Rickles. who were best friends. Have you ever heard this? What do you I've never heard. we were best friends. Yeah. We were definitely and we're total opposites, I would okay. Chuck was very quiet and reserved and everything unless he was big chuck. Right. then okay. And me, I'm like me all the time. So it's why my wife hates me. becausecause I wake up happy, I go to bed happy. And you you now, I mean, part of the year, you're not up here in Northeast Ohio. No I spend the winters in Florida. Yeah.t I can't take the cold anymore You've had it. Yeahah. and I came back like the middle of middle toill the end of May this year And I had that cold snap, I thought I was gonna die. That's right. And I had to put pants on for the first time in you know, six months. Not fun. No, no, I could imagine. But your boys are close by. Yeah, my family's here.. My one granddaughter is in New York She's a lighting technician on Broadway and Everybody else is here. You talk about so many celebs in the book that were on the Mike Tyson, various encounters interactions. The stars used to come to Cleveland and they go to channel three, channel five, channel eight, okay, okay. And now You go to Hollywood and the guy sits fifteen minutes, you know for Los Angeles, fifteen minutes in Georgia, fifteen minutes. they don't travel like they did before. So we would catch almost everybody that went through. I always said the bigger the star, the better the person. and like, you know, Lawce Welk was phenomenal, you know, when I'mal to leave was phenomenal. The funniest guy though, Tom Tim Conway. Oh Tay. I was going to call him Tom because that's what they his real name. Yeah. And that'ss Tim Conway So he would come back periodically periodically he was at eight. And he was the funniest guy I ever met. Did you ever, when you went up to Hollywood pal around withore go to a setter and you get to see the Carol Burnett setter or anything? No, we went to see Ernie Anderson and in California and we wanted to like go see this guy, go see this guy. And Ernie kept saying, Oh, we're going go to this great restaurant over here and I go, o yeah he goes, yeah, he said I said, what I heard such and such a restaurant Johny Carson's there andr thing he goes, Nah, you don't want to go there. all the celebrities go there. Yeah You want to go This iss a real nice place. Nobody knows anybody. That's great I'm a fan I'm a tourist. I'd like to see this sl And then one day, I was sitting in the back seat and Ernie was sitting next to me And u Erns was saying about He can do anything he wants in this town. It's his town and bl blah blah blah. And I said, and I just heard on the radio that the Dodgers have just been sold out for the last three hundred some odd games. And he goes, what do you guys want to do tonight? And I go, I want to go to baseball game. And he goes, What do you think this is Cleveland? or you walk up and get a ticket? He goes, Okay, so he tells the driver, Casey Go here, go here, here, okay. You pull up to this beautiful house, okay? He gets out of the car, goes in the house comes out, he has four tickets for that night's game.ow. So I said, Wh'd you get him from? He goes Harvey Corman I said, just wanted to introduce us? I mean we're still sitting in the driveway. That would have been nice. G ahead and say hi to him. Well, it turned out then years later right over here at the playoffs Chck can I open for Tim and Harvey. Oh, when they went on that tour a few years ago. Yeah. Oh, very cool, very cool. Last question, the sketch or sketches that You feel these exemplify your work on the show. This is what people always want to ask you about It was Chgolateightes. It was my fourth skit And that's when it was like the springboard. It seemed like after I did that People would like say, Hey, I saw you, you know, Yeah on it and Bridge the d, obviously it was my first one and so but people remember that too. For me, it's the sound engineer.'re running back and forth. out of that we did that in one take. We only done maybe six in one take and that was one of them. And it was very complex for people who want to find it. Well, John Ronald, thanks so much for being here. Thank you for having me. Areciate. It was fun Little John's new book is called Little John Lughing Myay Through Light