Sources & Methods Plus
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How far should the government go to protect America?
In this episode of Sources & Methods Plus, host Mary Louise Kelly facilitates a reflective conversation with former White House counsel Alberto Gonzales and former Secretary of Homeland Security Jeh Johnson to mark the twenty-five-year legacy of the September 11 attacks. The discussion explores the complex balance between national security and the preservation of democratic values. The guests provide personal recollections of the day, describing the transition of the United States into a war footing and the subsequent legal and institutional shifts that defined the post-9/11 era. The conversation examines the Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF), with both guests agreeing that the original legislation should have sunset long ago rather than being used as a blank check for decades of open-ended conflict. The panel also tackles difficult subjects, including the use of enhanced interrogation techniques, the enduring challenge of the detention center at Guantanamo Bay, and the evolution of the Department of Homeland Security. Ultimately, the participants address the modern shift in national security priorities, noting that the country now faces significant domestic threats and polarization that require a new approach to governance, leadership, and public participation.
Updated Jun 30, 2026
About This Episode
In the days — and years — that followed America’s leaders walked a fine and sometimes blurry line: how to prevent an attack like that from ever happening again? And how to do so without trampling American laws and democratic values?
As part of a conversation about the legacy of 9/11 at The Aspen Ideas Festival, host Mary Louise Kelly spoke with two of the country's leaders during that time: Alberto Gonzales, who was serving as White House counsel, and Jeh Johnson, who became Homeland Security Secretary under President Obama.
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