Outlook on the World Cup

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Yurgen, come and sit now This does look smat. Okay. I saw you have an order head. to see youurgen. Look at you. It looks great an order.ice nice to You look great. Nice talk Jurgens co. iss a nice little talk Just black, Just black coffee. Yeah. Paveven. Fantastic Lovely to meet you. Lgend in the house. Yeah. One of the greats, man.. I just have a great striker at the table. You're not wrong.'re not wrong. I love Jan Clin.og Be before I start asking a question, do you think assists are important in modern football Buno. Do you think Do you think they're important assists? think They're crucial, absolutely. Of course they are. They are. But not more important than the team The team wereted I mean, as long as you finish off there assist with a goal, you know, then you' the happiest strike in the world.. somebody I had some players that I play with day you gave them the ball and number eight number tenens, you know, they were doing the first one circle or two circles and then they looked for There's no space anymore. so pass it square pass it square. and then you were up front there w the ball. That was like surey was the Harland one, wasn't it? like just give us the ball. Just the. So frustrating to watch But who did you play with that was like that Jurgen that would do that? Be the Germ I always think if German teams have been quite direct getting the. Yeah, the German teams, yeah usually we had at a time by meaningako Fza first spz player He loved to kind of circle the ball I think David Gino Lides, P is my second time He loved oom, oom. And he I mean, was fantastic, a fantastic player, But I was waving. Maybe just first timebe. Did you Fantastic, Lad. Did you ever say anything Jogan? Can you put it in? M Maybe I won't say I did, but I try to keep it on the funny side of things You will not change people on the field.. They have their way of doing it. and And if Buno is made that way, you will not change him anymore. You got to take him the way the way he is at least if some goals come out of it All the assists that he is doing fantastic. and I think Menu obviously has a fantastic season. Nobody expected that kind of turnaround with Mel Cter. Well and nobody outside Manchester United wanted it either to be Dogg Stick to foootball is brought to you by armed clothing And I confronted a gentleman said You were supposed to come two days ago. I said, I'm here now, right? You take us Italians the way we are. get the heck out of here. Do you think it takes that one big win? I think it takes that one big win. And I always said, No, Harry Kane needs to leave to get the feeling of winning something. Yes.. No he famously did the warm up on his song Life is Life. Yes. and he started the jog of the ball And the game was already over. we already lost that game mentally. Spur sold within the first two weeks, Jerseyys with the eighteen for more than two million dollars. Wow. He said, you know, I just want to let you know, I can already cast in that. If I come in, I might shock some people. So I need from you a piece of paper saying I have the Cartplanche It's not about money, it's about how I want to do it. Two goalkeepers had field player jerseys made because we had no field players in. It gets worse you beat us with half a scraffers Y and you were supposed to come on the show four or five weeks ago and then obviously we got the call that you weren't coming on the show. Can you just explain Obviously the last four or five weeks, your son got a really bad injury playing for Jasena. Yeah, my son is a goalkeeper and he grew up Obviously in America, in California, but then he came over to Europe, played at Hota Berlin for two years, then in Switzerland. went back to the Los Angelles Galaxy, played MLS for three years and then was Taken by Chiseena, a team that kind of was was bankrupt six, seven years ago and was taken over by American investors and And they come from California and they came up and said, we would love to have them in in Italy, so he became the goalkeeper two years ago and then what last season was voted best goalkeeper in Sera B so like the championship. And was doing extremely well, was called in and by Morito Pocatino for two camps And Maarito looked at him and was very impressed and had a good chance to go to this summer' World Cup But it didn't happen in full Pretty four weeks ago that in a game in Palaermo, which is owned by Men Citity A midfielder from Palermo crashed into him when he was on the ground. he caught a ball U and, uh And he lost his balance that midfielder and he smashed with his knee in the back of his head And he broke his neck it was a highly complicated situation where the n in Palaermo, the hospital said, we cannot It's too complicated for us, we cannot help. It's crazy.. So we had to organize a medical chat, getting him up to Germany. He was then He underwent surgery four days later in the University clinic in Heidelberg, it's a town close to Frankfurt, but very well known for medical kind of difficult situations. They saved him, they saved him and wasas it that close, Joggan? It was it was Yeah, it wasn't danger from the moment basically it happened until the moment they could now do surgery and it all went fantastically well He put four screws into his neck In the upper spy in basically, they connected the C one and C two, they called it, the vertebrae there And they will come out in six months and he will be like before. Wow. It's fantastic. We are so thankful to to the people there thinking, God every second. But it I have to be honest, It's completely me off balance for several weeks. I was I flew over right away. My wife came as well and It was like walking in fog Well because you I'm not a medical person and I don't know the severity of certain things and just not knowing what will be for quite some time you know. It just it took me a while. So yesterday when I came up to Manchester, I felt like, you know what? I can see clearly again, things now I know next steps will be this, is it? It will be a long road of recovery. But he will recover one hundred percent And he will set his new goals then, obviously he wants to play a World Cup Yeah. He's twenty nine years old and he had a chance now with Mauricio, but it didn't happen, but I told him, listen You heal a hundred percent, the screws will come out after six to nine months. and it will heal And then it's more psychological, obviously, but he's a strong boy. He says I want to do that, you know come The fact he's thinking of that, isn't it? It's like mad, but the fact that he's okay. That's the main thing w for Yeah Yeah, it is it kind of reminds a lot of people a bit of Bar Trootmen, you know, the story that ye have broken with the broken neck But the most important part was came over, lay him down on the ground and then get him straight to the hospital, thenen they did x rays and MRTs and all these things that they do nowadays and And then with every half an hour, it got just the messages got worse and worse And I knew I got to get on the next flight to Europe, which I did. and then The moment we got him then into that special clinic in Heidelberg in Germany That's when you kind of relax. I relaxed a little bit and said, you know what? They know what they're doing. That's what they're doing They get the motorcyclists, they get the e bike children that the horrible accidents nowadays, you know, and They are specialized in neck situation and neck surgeries and spine issues It be was good to hear. Thank you.. But I admire you from afar. You know, I live in Los Angeles now almost twenty eight years. evenven if I did adventures back and forth in Europe with teams in Germany or or Bi a Munique and others and And but I really like your show. Oh. to get it off the table. So talk us about Los Angeles. What's it like living over there My wife she's Californian. I bumped into her when I U When I actually left Monaco in that time period for Spurs in nineteen ninety four we met and u Yeah, then in ' ninety seven, Jonathan who was the goalkeeper n, he was born in Munich when I played for Bayo Munich. and And in ninety eight, I finished my career after the World Cup in France. And there we had the decision to make where should boy groww up, you know California where her family is or Stuttgart where my family is and all respect to Stuttgart and my family. After living in Milano, London, Montecarlo with us in Rango two years in Monaco.. It's kind of a bit difficult to go back to Stutgart for me. And yeah, it was clear that we're going to go to southern California and we live about forty five minutes south of Los Angeles in an area called Orange County Newpo Beach and it was probably one of the best decisions we ever made do you get more nervous watching your thinking about your son playing now than you did when you played yourself? Yeah, absolutely. ye because you just wish of your own kids, you wish just the best for them, you know, and you want them to do well and you want them to reach the one hundred percent of their potential and hopefully you know get to the right people at the right time. in his case He never really had the right people at the right time. He pumped into people and it didn't match, you know And he unfortunately, know He's now twenty nine and he started So he did two years university first and then he was a plane that under twenty World Cup twenty seventeen in South Korea when England I had the fantastic run with the under twenties And it was one of the top three goalkeepers in that tournament. and that's when two Bundestiga teams wanted him and he went then to Berlin. But he never really got a fair chance because of his last name So there was always kind of a jealousy behind it And he had to suffer that for many, many years. and when he now exploded then so late in Italy, becoming goalke of the year in Italy in the CAB, the championship basically, he he kind of woke up a lot of people and said, you know what? this kid is really good Um, and, uh, u So you kind of Yeah, you are a bit anxious, you're nervous when you watch it far more than you were about your own career, you know So you see when you're watching him when he started when he chose to be a goalkeeper, did you Did you see the size that he's a pretty good goalkeeper Did you? Did you see that early Did you keep taking shots? So he first was a midfielder. He played outside and he loved it, you know until the age of eleven twelve. and I coached in byo Munich in When was that two thousand eight, two thousand nine. So we as a family, obviously moved to Munich for the time being And at the same timeed he played football, he played also basketball because the American system in the school has always changed the sports And he was really good in basketball and uh, um So he loved that and at Bayon then He played in Bio Munichics basketball team under fourteen, he was eleven years old and he was the best player there. But at the same time, he kind of Tried out with the you team. as a midfield and there he realized, whooa are these kids good because time B Munich, they kind of recruited the best kids in the state of Bavaria. It's like you know the whole Mersecyite is only recruited by O top If it's Man United or Liverpool And I said, that's going to be difficult to break into that group. And I said, But I really love to catch the ball. He said, you know, I said, you do whatever you want You know and And it said, Oh, I want to be goalkeeper. And that's when he started at the age of eleven to be a goalkeeper And then he did all the youth national teams for the United States, also the Olympic team And yeah, and it wasn' in a mirror of the senior national team, but then they bounced back and forth with different coaches until Maurizio Pogatino then came and now guides them to the World Cup. And but now he has to be patient Stick to foootball is brought to you by arm clothing. Ygan you grew up in Germany, obviously born in Germany in Europe Y parents were your father was a baker. How was that growing up? So were you in the shop? It was the best thing ever. No, we have a Baker family. I have three brothers. We're all a one yearpart. And they always wanted the girl, but the girl never came after the fourth boy. they said, stop. And so growing up in a bakery was wonderful because I mean you groww up also knowing then how everything is made. So I got an education as a baker too because I got a professional contract offer from a second division team in those days and the team is called Stutgaa Kikos. they play now fourth division. But those days there were second division. And they offered a contract when I was playing for the youth team. And I was not allowed to sign that contract. Because you're a child still. you know, So your parent has to sign. So my dad had to sign a contract, but he says what if somebody breaks your leg and you can't play anymore and you leave now school for this, you know, you can make money with football. said said supposingly. And so when he said, Okaykay, you know what, boy I sign you this contract. So you become professional at the age of eighteen offfficially, but you need to have something in your pocket So if you leave school Then you get an education as a baker, baker diploma, which I have So at the same time, I wasn't allowed to train with the first team as a sixteen year old But I had to work every day in the bakery. So I got that diploma And it worked out well.. Weere we happy to walk. Were you forced?re we you happy to w? No, I loved it. mean, I loved. The only The critical thing was, you got to get up at three in the morning. St The first shift until seven eight o'clock. Then I was allowed to go to the twenty And then I had to do a second shift after lunch for the rest of the day, then the goods that go into the shop then But it was for me just normal And love that you loveved it. You love baking, you love football. so it's perfect. We need to get some of these Premier League players in Greg. There is other brands available. It's amazing. It's discipline though, isn't it? L it's hard work and' it kind of instills that from a young age that you've got to be disciplined. Everything you do. Yeah, and it is I think the lesson for my father was then probably you got to have a plan B. If plan A doesn't work out. So if really something happens to an injury or whatever or you're not good enough Then at least you have something to fall back on And that was very wise of him. Was your father your biggest influence when you were growing up I think so, yeah, because I just saw him. I mean that generation, you know, the post World War two generation in every country What they had to to work was just insane. And I saw him work fourteen, sixteen hour shifts every day. and my mom too, that was lot. the only time they really went outside the bakery was when one of us kids had any sporting events. My older brother was a track and fielder. It was a deck athlete, fairly good. And the other one was also playing football. One was a Judo car. So when any kind of stuff in the sports world was happening, they try to support, they try to come So he was definitely a huge influence But my dad was funny. He originally was from East Germany And before The wall came up, basically he left his place with a friend of him, also a baker friend from his little town And then they went to the western side, they moved around and he ended up in a Stutgart in the southwest area of Germany, which was occupied by the Americans And he got the official papers that he's allowed to stay there. They met my mom. and they settled there, you because of the fact that that he left home He was never really accepted to where he went because in a dialect, they understood he was from the eastern side. Every time we went back as kids to visit his family because we were only allowed from the West German side to go to the East German side to visit family Theyay from East Germany were not allowed to come to West Germany. So it only was a one wave for the R so So every time we went back home to his place, you know, they made him feel like crap basically, because you left us. You ran away So I saw that over years we children saw this Until obviously we were all thrilled when the wall came down and in ' eighty nine, late eighty nine I'm But he because of his experience leaving home tryrying to find this way of life somewhere else At one point I maybe it was twelve or thirteen years old U I was constantly outside like we all were playing football. you know, the afternoons were playing football for us So one day he came and said need to talk to you I said, ye what is that? And I said, Well, I will observe you. I serveving you every day and One day you got to go He said to me when I was a child and he said, Well what do you mean, Dad? One day I have to go. So I see that in you I see that in you. you need to see the world There's more and more to it, you know You you have this drive, you know And I remember that until today, you know. And the same then happened years later when I played for Sttgard And we had the final two years of my time in Stuttgart, Bundesliga. wasas we were a fairly good team. We went in the UFA Cup final against Napoli in eighty nine against Maradona, Car Calamo. Yes And but in that year already I became already an eighty seven national team player and the Becken Bauer And yeah, so people could see, okay, this kid maybe could go different route My coach was Ari Han and he was fantastic Dutch player in a seventy four se four seventy eight World Cups, ye. And he one day came to me in the last year, I was playing and said, you know, you're going to need to talk to you and said, what's up coach? you know? And I adored him Beuse he was always in a good mood. and when he was st, he was so not German, you know. It was always funny cracking Jerman. And I said, ye, what's up coach? I said, Yeahah, I think you know it' It's time for you to to go And we were in that run towards the UFA Cup final at the end and Well what do you mean? No no, I said, Yeahah bestest ey in Italy What are you doing here How was he then I was at twenty three twenty Oh, that means I gott to go to Italy. And he said Yeah. I mean, I'd love to keep you here and maybe win a title or two, whatever. You know, I think, you know, I need to be honest to you. you know, everybody is now watching DeriI in Italy in the late eighties Yeah. you know, all the best players, you know, if it's Ziko if it's I mean, Mateo and Braame over there, Ruli Phil over there from the national team and then obviouslyi from Bast Reichard and all these players and I was okay, cooach. you doubt him you believed what he was telling you Yeah. I really thought he means it in a good good way. It means it for me, you know, I gota move on and do things that makes make me better than hopefully Yeah. Well wouldould your father have told you you need to go in you're twelve thirteen because of his experience and the fact that hebe yeah, he just saw There's more to life than just the bakery probably and And he saw I have a lot of talent and what I'm doing there. and I went through all the youth national teams then with Germany and So he understood this kid is is Hungary is driven. He's trying to make the right decisions, which we not always do, but We try to and Yeahah. And was you always a striker youst for the same From a little kid on, yeah. was just one of to score goals. I was just driven by goals I was not driven by Tking the ball around or you know justust doing technical crazy things. I just thought you know, I know where the goal is, just give him the ball and I will take care of it somehow. Um, and I think in the under ten So he gave me when I started to play at the eight year old He said, Okaykay, if you do this now and I think you have really quite some talent I I start a book for you, you know, it's called your Little record book. You know, he put a sentence in that book and he said, I want you to Write down every game you play The result of the game and because you want to be a striker, how many goals you score. From the age of eight on. I wrote I have it at home that book. The Germanuseum, football museum wantsed it so bad, I said, I'm not. And I wrote down every single game I played until you becickame professional then it's okay, then other people have the books. And in that second season, I played as a nine year old. I had two games in one game. I scored sixteen goals An otherwise called fifteen goals. The game was two times twenty minutes So we had a wake Stong center back. he kicked the ball upwards it I scored, I picked the ball out of the net and ran back and put it down because you know I wanted to score a. thirty one goals in two games. So in that season, I scored one hundred six goals and I don't know, twenty games or whatever But I've wrote it down And then u yeah Later on they made a book with it you, That's amazing. My book would been empty. I don't think that Ian's going well would' be cool courseool. I wouldn't have your book. You know, so mean that just to write it down is something I would love to do it. because Becauseuse you played football for hours outside. You just played for hours. didid you do that R? Yeah of course. yeah You played for hours. it felt like you never got tired And when you said about when you was young just outside playing football were you guys just outside playing football sameame as you did same sameame as all the I think the football driven Nations too. that was was the way we grew up You just get a shelf for your teable when you're at like five o'clock or something. but now you walk around the streets. I was doing it the other day And there's like hardly any kids about. I know there's a safety element, but yeah, there's not as many kids out playing as there in general. It's a great time Stick to foootball is brought to you by arm clothing When I think about you sort of, you're the one German player that seem to have that something different You know, that that sort of bit of flare because I always think of German teams obviously winning, reliable, consistent, but you had that little bit of flair. wereere you deemed back then in the day when you were growing up as being a flair player, someone who was highly skillful, the most talented Um I think my life changed dramatically. I don't know if I was a bit different when I still was playing for Stuttgart in the UFA Cup final with Napoli and all that But my life definitely changed to a different way of thinking and looking at things. the moment I stepped into Italy I had a couple of lessons in Italy in the first few months at Intermilan, also with teammates Um way I thought, you know, typical German in those days is we expect certain things to be a certain way. It's just how our brain was was a programmed And there was a day that The washing machine was broken. I called a mechanic. The mechanic didn't show up in Italy You know, and came back came then two or three days later and I confronted a gentleman said, You were supposed to come two days ago. said Yeah, I know, but I had no time but I'm here now, right? And I said, but you were supposed to come two days ago. It stressed me out. And he was looking at me like, what's wrong with this guy? And he said, So do you want me to fix the washing machine? And I took that Okay, he's right, you know, so I thought, you know, I'd tell that story to my teammates next day training ground And the Italians, and in those days only three foreign players were allowed to play in a foreign country And so in my broken Italian, very broken Italian, I explained it to my teammates. I thought, you know, they need to understand me that it's not okay coming two days slate. And so I told the story and Bonnie tell me, I don't know who it was then. I mean, there were personalities in that locker room at In Milan, like Singa Bergumi Ferry, Aldo Sna was my striking partner. we had about five, six Italian national team players that played the ninety World Cup It was a really good team. And so one lad stood up. game and kind of right in front of my face and said, Y, it's very simple in Italian and I understood okay It's very simple. All you take as Italians the way we are the heck out of here. I said it was he serious? Y Oh, wow And I know I didn't know what to say. I was probably re in my face, you know, and And I was shaking a little bit and said, Oh my God, what did I do? What did I do wrong? You know, so I said, okay, you know, and I said back on my spot And for two or three minutes, I was thinking and thinking, what do? It was all quiet in lockerom And everybody was thinking detail and were thinking, so how does it take that now How does he take that lesson? And then after two or three minutes, I realized he's so right I'm a guest here I'm coming from a different place I have to learn to take them the way they are. Not they have to take me the way I am. I have to change. I have to change So I stood up and I said, I'm so sorry guys I think I got the lesson. And then they were laughing. Did that mean you just had to relax a little bit more? No it meant I had to take no matter where I go and for the rest of my life, that is the key lesson Me as it doesn't matter where I came from then I have to take the people the way they are And I don't have to go anywhere in the world and expect the people the way I want them to be. And it was a bit our German approach. you know we go on vacation and we put down the towels in the pool, all these old stories. But there's a truth behind it. you know It's basically we are programmed a bit that way. We won a win Snitzel, we wood way And but that moment I really started them to always think, okay do they things how do they? main What is their philosophy of life? Th then I moved on to Aen Winger in Monarcho. the French people are different Then I came to England and obviously got my lessons in England too from the people in a good way. But I was prepared then I was prepared, okay, if they are different and if they are you know with their special type of humor and I just need to ask questions that I need to ask, okay, what would you do now? like to divver story?. how do I react to it? What is now what did I do wrong in the first place? And I think When people then saw that, okay, I can make fun of myself too. I can also say that I had a bad day or I had a bad game, you know, I missed some chances or whatever And I think that helped me for the When you first went into, it was Tppatoni that took you there, what did you learn from him and how difficult? mean you just mentioned how challenging it was for you to adapt to the culture, but in terms of the football, I mean, Italian defenders back then you mentioned Bergamy and defend they were tougher That league was a tough defensive league and in a liden eighties then when theriab became the place to be for several years until the Premier League took over, obviously the Italian football has the culture of nut to lose firstirst and foremost, you cannot lose. If you end up nil nil one one You save your face. So for the Italians not losing means I still have my face all right still today. So defending is the number one Pace in mind For me, it was very difficult to comprehend because I want to score goals, you know I was lucky that Rberatonia at least played with two strikers. Tay, nobody plays with two strikers in partnership anymore I had Aldo Serna, also the seentnder forward from the national team, the Italian team as my partner and we had a bit of a blast. We had a good time But their culture is all the coaches in Trumatoni included get taught by their educational system You play football? First and foremost, not to lose. then if in the last ten minutes, we figure out how to score a goal We are heroes. fantastic. We win one nil and everybody's happy. And the fans are happy as. And the fans so the fans get educated that way as well. The media get educated that way as well. So so if you win four games, four, three, three, two, five, four Theyable criticize all the goals that you conceded. They will not give you compliments about well you won. And so coming to todayays even because my son is now down there and placed in that culture They are still caught in this mentality They're cau of not taking any risks. It's in their And Adina that's normal for them. They' normal for them, you know? So't don't take risk. And if you take risks only maybe the last ten, fifteen minutes, But we would say, you know This game is going the wrong way. We are down one nill and halfime, we have to make some changes here. You know, We got to go forward and bring in some tacking options They might have the same thought, but the same timing as we in Germany or in England have So they wait until ten minutes before the end where I say then, Why are you waiting long? You down, M Nil You have only forty five minutes now to turn. W that good pressure for you, Den be alive for the last ten minutes where you think this is where I might get the opportunity. So I realized then, okay, you got to be a spot on in the last fifteen, twenty minutes But I had no problems with it because I was a runner I love to run and still today, I love to run and so I was waiting for the last twenty minutes. You could get people tired. It's interesting you mentioned the Italian mentality, but the thing that we probablybably in England, Royal of Sther of Ireland, but the thing in England, we've been obsessed with the German mentality, you could argue for thirty, forty years because we've always felt that we've lost out to Germany. How would you describe the German mentality of football? If you describe the Italian as not to lose, how would you describe the German mentality when you were growing up and the successes that you've had with national teams and the way in which you think I think So the DNA of German football is And it's all always a cultural discussion You know, and it's actually very similar, I think to the English DNA is we like to take risks in a certain way and we like to go forward So that means we don't like to wit what the other people are doing. we'd rather do it And it's how I experienced in my first time. It was very similar to Stuttarto Bayer Munich when I played there And also We don't be impatient Both nations, English and German Germans I am patient. We want to get Things moving forward somehow. let's move. let's let's do something Meanwhile, the Italian culture is we weight It's like a chess game. We wait until you make the first move and if that's the wrong move, I gonna A going to kill you? Yeah.. And and it's it's It's You can see that in the business world, you can see it in in cultural other in other sports or in other elements of the culture that that Germany and England are both nations They' ders. You know, we're not waiting for the French, we arere not waiting for the Spanish Italian You know, the Latin nations, they are more relaxed. they lean back and they the weight of what's happening what happens first and then they find their way of disturbing you or beating you. I'm interested that you actually compare the German culture mentality to the English did you see it? wouldould you see us as being as organized or as disciplined or as successful as you thinks. I always think that we think of the German mentality as being one of efficiency, success, winning, English I mean, football terms I'm talking probably here as well, mainly We've not been able to get overline We fallen short. we S say we're going to win and we don't win. you understand you're a bit more reserved. But you go and win I think that that's a discussion of of confidence And confidence comes with the success. And I think Germany had then, you know We were fortunate that We could build on the success of the nineteen fifty four World Cup team Because that team gave the country the permission again to stand tall after World War two Then we had the golden generation of seventy four, seventy two. with Becken Bauer Gard Mueiller Overhad and O Harnes in these unbelievable generation of players like like your sixty six team and then obbviously the teams that came after. So they pulled up some things that gave German football, a lot of confidence becausecause those and then came we were kind of called. the nineteen ninety team was called here The team of the reunification Bring both sides back together, East Germany and West Germany And we felt that support in the World Cup nine ninety whichich we luckily won, but we also knew that, you know, playing the semifinal of England was like this. You know could have gone both ways. likeike ninety six same thing could have gone both ways the fifty four and the seventy four team did to the nation was giving the whole entire nation confidence again And I think builduilding on those two World Cup wins, We but a level of confidence for the ninety team that even if we knew that they England can beat us, Holland can beat us U We kind of had this level of confidence inside of us to say, no matter what will happen, we' going to win it. If they call it luck or not luck, it's okay And I think the little piece that is missing in England still over the last decades, decades is this last piece of confidence Like I mean, obviously I was Now with you guys in twenty one at the final with Italy u, And I was also at the last final, you know and in Berlin. and That was always the last piece. Do you get that confidence or do you think one single and get one win then it should kind of power them on because they should have that belief. Do you think it takes that one big win? I think it takes that one big win. And I always said No, Harrry Kaye needs to leave Harry needs to leave to get the feeling of winning something.. And then horrible enough, the first season didn't win because Level C isn't at this kind of But it is, it is once you get that taste And you want more of it, don't you? Yeah then you start to want more. And then you also bring out your chest and say, you know what? we'll get it we get the next title. You get G greed. You get greedy, didn't? Yeahah success is good Yeah. I mean, based on the one year with A in Wingo, you know he didn't lose at all It changes everything. It changes your perspective because it gives you the feeling you can do it If you work obviously hard and you know, I mean a lot of elements have to fall into place, but But it is it is a mental situation Stick to foootball is brought to you by arm clothing. ACAS powers the world's best podcasts. 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We let you brow shows, seeee who's listening post reed sponsorships or run your own ads all from one platform. Transparent pricing, real time data, complete control. Start advertising on podcasts by visiting acast. com slash advertise. played under incredible managers Beckenau, Chopppatone and, Venger, just three of them and there are more Who is the manager that you learn most from I learned from all of them. I mean, I had an OiA dealers at person. we came with a flying five forwards and I had Talouis Minoti at Sandoria Genoa for a couple of months and until he decided, you know Basically overnight, he left back to Buenosires. He wanted two more players and the president said, I have no money. next day was gone. his coach himselfself was gone. But I try to learn from everyone like Alhana I mentioned once and Stuttgart Um Obviously Frs Beckenbau for our generation of The ninety World Cup generation and he was He was like a father figure and And, uh Whenever I got nervous on the field, whenever I had a bad day on the field, I said, what are you doing? You know, missing these chams I just looked outside and then he stood there. Sometimes he was a bit bored or but he's just his charisma And his positivity got you back in line. I said, you know, what am I nervous about? What is my problem His friends backck and was standing the Kaiser. and he got me back in balance and I started without saying anything to you his presence. His presence.. His presence made you believe, hisis presence made you calm You know, we in nineteen ninety, we had no media pressure because it was all on Fran Beckenbau and he was just smiling. Yeah And so yeah, he was very influent. And then I had the ninety six coach, Bertie Fkes. He had me as under sixteen coach for the German Federation, under twenty one coach. And so he was like a person that I always callalls and looked up on whenever something was happening. and I took him into my staff actually in the United States then for five years as a technical advisor, I call him because he wanted to be a ass sistant coach I said No You cannot be my assistant coach because you were my coach, you know. So I got to figure out a name. Let me give you sub title But then you are with us and so So for the twenty fourteen World Cup in Brazil, he was on my side Not being in the bench, he was in the stand, but he was always there as an advisor. You had too much respect for him to be your assistant,? Yeah, too much res. What was Gram backck about it? Was he tactical or was it just mainly motivation, man management I think the first couple of years he was mainly motivational personality, giving you confidence But then he became after he lost eighty six in the World Cup final against Argentina. He went back to the boarder as we say. He said, you know, now I want to know everything in detail And he becameah a fanatical. going into details, and Olota Mateos he told me those stories. He said he always had to call get up into his room and he explained to him, listen, this is what we're going to do until So the majority of the players didn't know that The captain knew, captain his right hand was Lota Mateos and And so he became very driven in details. So he knew everything about every opponent that we faced in the World Cup because he says, I'm not going to finish second again And that was his drive What was it like playing as Maredona U I mean, I know that English people have a very specific kind of memories with Mavadon and I totally get that. I mean there's no doubt about it. but I had the first experience with him in ' ninety Um nine eighty nine UF a cup final with Stood God U And that's why when you know, you famously did the warm up on the song Life is lifeife in the stadium And we had seventy thousand people in Stutgart and and he started the jogg of the ball You know, and we are all just watching on the other side And the game was already over. you know, we already lost their game mentally. For me, and I met him then obviously with Iimila and Napol, we played many times in Argentina, Germany, became a bit of a rivalry. U And for me he was always an artist. that couldn't control his brain He was always chasing his own brain You know, because his thoughts were always ahead of time on the field, that means he saw things ahead of time. Before he got the ball, he knew already where this ball needs to go who he needs to feed, what he needs to do He knew exactly He had a three hundred and sixty degree vision. He knew where the goalkeeper was. you so when he knew he was ten yards out of the of the line then he tried theall. Yeah. and And and he I saw these, it witnessed it you know, in all these games, you know I think then off the field Obviously, his brain becomes his biggest struggle because then drugs came into his life and and when he when he came to So Napoli, u, You know nobody couldn't believe it that he actually comes to one of the places in Italy where You know, it's not Juventus. it's not into, it's not Ay Milan. It's not A Roma, which was kind of still our big number It's southern Italy. It's Napoli. Napoli is a completely different world Even for the Italians, you can talk to the Northern Italian southern Ital, but notbodyody it's its own its own place and like Liverpool for a. Yeahah. But absolutely fascinating. and he became a child of Napoli But he said, this is my place. this is where I come from. And I went right before COVID, I went on a boy trip with two friends of mine to Buenos Aires. and they said, I want to witness one time Pokca Juni' Riverblade at L Bumbonera. that was on my bucket list And so I went down there And then then we walk through the neighborhood Boka, And every second house is blue and yellow. Every third house is Maradononna. And and it's it's like half our there Yeah Rough neighborhood And so I understood, okay, you know, this is not pully in a different way Um And then yeah, he became a child of the Napuritanans and their culture. And then when he brought the first title to them, he will be a forever God. He's God But he could not go out of the house. If he goes just out to the corridor, there are a hundred people waiting for him He could not go to a restaurant, he could not have an espresso in a bar Like all the Northern Italians in Torino and Milano, we could como or we could go and have a nice coffee. Plers they had never a problem Yeah know They may be want to have an autograph here and there, but they leave you alone Not in Aapoli. you belong to them Yeah and that ate him up And then he got into drugs. That must have been so tough for him, wasn't it? You can see kind of how them things happen. If you can't leave your house Challenging. I mean, look you work with Arson Benger before He came to England just Were you aware that how great a coach he was at that point when you worked with him at Monaco? Yeah, I think it was highly impressive what he did in Monaco already. and obviously Monaco is not the big house number like, you know, Liverpool and United and Arsell.'s It's a very well driven club They're trying to kind of bother Parisa Germain Olympic Marseille in those days, but it's a little monarcho. You know, you play in front of five thousand people, the league games We played in Champions League and those games are sold out, you know But what Ason did already when I when I went there was, you know, he tried to recruit All kind of related French related African nations. He had a scouting network all over Africa And so players came in from young players with dual citizenship, French and then the relevant African country. So he was Fantastic and he recruited and then The philosophy had of playing was attacking minded football. It was fast paced Um Combination related and And that impressed me the most with us. and is he was an educator It was like a teacher And sometimes, you know, for me as a Gld driven machiner and I wanted to win something you know, it was I didn't really get it, you know, some stuff that he did, you know, so So in that team, when I played there in I knew when was that I think ninety two to ninety four I'm There was a young kid coming up from the youth develment was Lilliam Tiam. Yes. There was another one of Emmanuel Titi. They were not national team players. They were just young players Yuriof.. And then then we had foreign players was with me Vil Baros, He came from Portuguese, little player came from Juvento Tin. So we had these young French players and are Yeah, J were highly talented and but sometimes he opted against them, you know, for for the first eleven So after a while, you know, I saw Yuri Jaf and Yuri was a little bit he loved life. You know, he loved to go, let's talk about where we go for lunch during training. you know You oversee the ocean there from the training ground. So really difficult to focus. And whereere are we going for lunch? We go to Nice to Kfera and all these beautiful places there And then he left them off the starting lineup a couple of times. and we were Running for the title with Olympic Marseill, we were head on head And he left him out a couple of times. And I said there a certain point I saident to, and that was the only player allowed to talk to him also in German because he speaks fllu in German A cooach, what are you doing You know, I was straight forward You know, you kind of put Yuri on the bench. He's one of our best players. you know, Yeahah, I know bud he's young. He said, Yeah I know he's young, buddy's one of our best players. I said But he doesn't understand yet what it means to be a professional what do you mean out said this in the e out, you know You know, he's drinking here and he's smoking there. And I said, Yeah, I know, but he's one of our best players. you know we want the title. No he needs to learn his lessons. And he gave him his lessons he left him out on the bench and and he went through that. he was steady on him and Month by month, you saw the change in Yi becoming more and more professional. I would be interested to have him now on the table and talk about that process that he went through Because everybody knew' so talented and And that's how he educated the players. You know for him, the education of the players was more important than actually winning the title at the end of the day.. And that was the first season. we ended up that season as a runner up But unfortunately, Olympic Mersee bought the championship. They corrupted the other teams and the refereeserard T. And so they didn't give us the title for that, but they gave us the slot going into the Champions League for the next season where we ended up actually in the semifinal losing to AC Milan in ninety four And that's when these talents, Lilliam Turam Emmuel Pati, and Y Jo have got on the international stage and then four years later, obviously in ninety eight, they won the World Cup. But he was for me more an educator than anything else. fantastic Andorry and's brave out of manager to sacrifice potentially sacrifice football and scores in games where you think you're under pressure we can Michael look at that bigger picture. Yeah. And your first coach doing that, you know what I mean? becausecause it would have been beneficial for him to keep you, but he said you need to go in their managers that care about you as a person, I think that's reallyally special Stick to football is brought to you by arm clothing England Did you always want to come to England? No We grew up The only league we were able to watch in England the seventies, eighties was English. The English league. you watch the FA compp as well Yeah, so we there was a main proadcast is ARD. It's called ZDF. Those are the two like PBCs of the world and And every Sunday, later afternoon, they showed the highlights of the key game in England and we were cluue to the TV. So I was a A fanatical Kevin Keegan fan. And then he came even to Hamburg and then became a European football of the year doinguring his days in Hamburg winning the champions League in those days. Yeah What was your first impressions of England and the Premier League when you came Well what for me was incredible to experience was was the dynamic of the game in England. But we saw that as kids, you know, it was mean, It was meant sometimes negatively in other countries as a kick and rush, right? But I always looked at it positively because It means to me, I want to score as fast as I can. Right, Ke the ball up front and figure out a way to get it in a box and then figure out a way to put it in the net. And for me that was joy, pure joy, you know, as as a forward as a striker. and so I was always amazed by the energy that came across on television with the fans with you see the kids in the first row there screaming and, you know, Just the dynamic of the game was so highly dynamic and then obviously the great Liverpool site in the seventies then became famous absolutely famous. There was so many German kids were Liverpool fans. It was incredible. It was incredible. and for me, English football was always about energy There's so much energy there. Yeah. When mean I came then and experienced it myself, I mean, for me that first firstur season before I left them for Bio Munic I bit a similar move to Harricane. I needed to leave because I ran out of time to win something win. but for me that energy was acked all W that been part of your plan when you were younger to play in different leagues or will just pand out that way Italy and Germany and France. I had no plan, but when Arihan, Dutchcoe said, you got to go to Italy Actually, I realized that this can become like a second school to me I was always jealous of my my schoolmates. They went on university, they had, you know, their careers, you know, everyone becomes a doctor whatever they became. then later on. And I never had that experience going to school, you know at the age of eighteen, nineteen twenty U So then I realized in Italy, Oh, this is like in a certain way, like a school. It's like an educational process. You know you have to figure out how they think, what they do. You have to learn their language And the and then I actuallyually after my third year in Italy, I kind of got bored because I thought I thought, I know it now. You know Italian, you know, I know how they live. I know the difference between the different places and how they think Gotta move on, you know what's next And then so next came France And then after two years with AN, I played the ninety four World Cup in the US And yeah, it just Monaco for two years is fantastic two years playing league games in front of five thousand people know it's kind of okay. even it was a very good team, obviously, then we had Lilam Tiam andima they really they became national team players But I said now I need to do something else. And then came the option with Spurse Was it true that that came about because Alan Sugar was on a Yacht in Monacor And then there was a conversation between agents. Is that true? Is it? was so I played the ninety four World Cup in the United States and I had an agreement with ASN that if a team comes and paays two million dollars. all I was almost thirty years old. I'm allowed to go. You know, Austin said, I get you. you know, I kept you now for two years here. And if you don't want to do something new again, you know, before you run out of time. So I came back from the World Cup in America and We are sat in my place in Monte Carlo, an apartment and then suddenly Alen Sugar calls and says, Hey, you know, I'm the chairman of Tadnem Hotspur and We would like to talk to you if you're interested and said, yeah, absolutely. I'm interested Wh Where are you? Oh, I'm sitting here in my yacht in a harbor and And I said o Oh, that's three hundred yards away from me. It's so small, you know, so small. It was in my apartment So I walked down to him, we had I remember, we had a casino Um He had that on his boat and was really impressed, you know ide had a Cppuccino. And so he explained to me It's a situation where we're in minus twelve points deduction because of financial mismanagement in the past and out of the FA cup and we have those problems, but I'm fighting them. I'm fighting them. I get them reduced and so no worries, you. And the coaches see are dealist Asadilas I said, you know And I adore Argentinian football, you know, itsiaas And then I think it was done in ten minutes. you know threw out the numbers directly face to face. I said, this is what I own here in in Monaco, this is what I got here inter Milan and I want to have it kind of somewhere that is matching your best players at Surs. I don't want to be off too much, but I want to be recognized there financially too And And he says, Yeahah, we can do that, we can do that. And so who do I talk to? I said, you have to talk to us in Manger So I called Arsin and he was five hundred yards away. And literally fifteen minutes later, we were in his office said, Asa you told me two million dollars transfer fee Here's Mr. Suar, chairman and he would like to cut a deal with you. And if you okay, you know, all I need from you is the release paper And then you can talk to him privately. No, I don't need to be part of that And then and then Alen called, I think a photographer. be the And any kind came basically up to the paper so they had the photo, you know, and it was the deal. What I didn't know And that moment was that England was the first the Premier League was then the first league that introduced higher numbers for the players for the entire season So that was the first year where they allowed numbers outside of one to eleven for the entire season with your name on your back. You know So that was they tried it out, you know. So when I came to Spurs then they said, you know, what number do you want to whatever, you know, whatever is If Teddy has nine, I take eleven or seven or I don't know. giveive me any striker number. I said, no, no, no, you can have a higher number outside of They have one to eleven because we keep the same number the entire season. no matter if you play or not play Oh, that's interesting. okay, I take the eighteen because I had that with Germany I didn't get the eighteen with Germany because it was given away when I was as a young l breaking the German team. It it was given to to Rudy Furer the nine and Frank Mill who was a striker from Dorton the eleventh. So I said, Okaykay, then I take the double nine. Yes. So eighteen So now it became official that I moved from Monarcho to Spurse and I didn't know much about F League at that time. I didn't know much about London and the dynamics. I just said I go there and experienceces So what happened then People in England didn't believe that, you know this guy is coming with all that dial kind of discussion and story And I didn't know anything about that either, but but I got there and and spurs sold within the first two weeks Jerseyys is the eighteen for more than two million dollars And then I woke up And I said Holy mooly, is this true? know? And Alan, you know in his personality is an entertainer, He, you know, I just want to let you know I can already cast in that. got these two millions within two weeks. whose idea was the dive in because you said He didn't really know about it. People were talking about you in this diving dive. whoosese idea was to was dive. a friend of mine that lived close to Monaco, outside of Monaco, a German journalist, a writer, but he lived down there and he says, you know what They're testing you out They're testing you o So there is one thing you cannot do going to England is being being offended. You know, or being upset. But then then then you lost with the English He said to me, said, what am I doing? said, Well, take some goggles with you to the press conference or so and make a joke at the press conference right away and that I did that. So you know, I asked at the press confcnce at introduction and I said, Well, I want to ask if you know a diving school in London, you take some lesson. But they came across obviously a little bit Yeah I was not relaxed enough, you know But they were laughing. Okay. so it broke some yice. And then the first game was travel Wednesday And we drove up with the bus and thousands of Wednesday fans said N numbers out there five point eight five in front of the. And the bus drove up. it was a sell out crowd. And and the whole bass was laughing. And I said, what are I laughing about it? And I said, it's all for you. And Teddy had then the brilliant idea. Teddy, I mean, I didn't know how to take it.. Teddy said, I got I got I got it You score your first goal today A We we all going to do a dive. Teddy's idea. No, in that game, I I score in the first goal E the whole team and I remember laughing when I saw it. did you see it? I remember laughing. It was bth perfect wor Thank to.. Teddy I think him still today.. Did you dive No, I did not. But I understood then why? Because when I saw then some of the images from the ninety World Cup, where people then said this was not a foul and it was actually a foul I then totally get Yeah you can see it in both perspective And I think the one file from the Argentinian a play in the final, you know me open Yeah, six inches along my shin. but But you know I was lying on the ground and the reaction of me, however I did that, you know, rolling over and rolling even higher over, I said, what did she do there But it was my budd reacting like that. It was not really me. I was not thinking of anything, you know, but he cut me open Looking at the images, afterwards, I then totally understood why they saying, Oh you were diving there. But And then I also kind of said, okay, if you think that way it'sright, no problem Yeah. But I didn't putosely dive. I think the English mentality was back then because I do remember it. went we were out of Europe weren't we for about five, six, seven years. And then when we came back in It was almost like I'm not going to say call it diving, not you just necessarily, but international teams, German teams, Italian teams, they won free kicks They knew how to win free kicks and the English players just didn't know how to win We were quite naive were't? We would almost like it was almost like if you went down, it was like ridiculous. But you watch the players now, if you get touched, you go down Yeah And that's what I'm saying was it just hold me? No, I understood it. then you know I talked obviously with my sp teammates and about that stuff and they explained me, you know, the English perspective on these fowls, you know these circumstances. and I totally I get it now, you know, I'm the most angry one when I see a dy you know I see o, this is not a penalty. this is not And then I coached for six years I coached the United States and we played Mexico You, three times, four times a year we played Mexico because that's the only big rival you have really. you know, And there was situations where I said, this is not possible? I mean, they would kill him in England.. So I understood the English way of looking at that. Yeah. What was your partnership with Teddy Sheringham like? Because everyone that played with Teddy said he was fantastic to play with And it was that way because he's a type of a player that you can adjust so easily as a teammate because he's always thinking of you. He's thinking of his partner more than he's thinking about himself So I always knew that when the ball goes close to him, he already knows where I am. And his first thought was always about who's better positioned than me If he knew then at the end, I'm perfectly position to do it myself, he finishes off himself, which is the right way to do it for us strikers. But was for me like being in heaven playing with him in I said, this guy is incredible, you know? and he's very appreciative and he sees that you know, you have a bad day and for whatever reason you don't finish off the things the right way But you work really hard with him and you keep working and working He wants to kind of Um He wants badly more for you to score than himself to score. And then there were certain goals where I scored maybe an eightieth minute then finally, but I had a bad game and And he said, You deserved it so much now. You know, you work the shit off yourself, you know, but it was not really the best game for me. And I adored that. I really adore it. A lot of football intelligence in. He has a football brain speacular football brain. It was the best partner that you ever played with. You obviously played in fantastic teams. It was the best player that the play you enjoy playing with most U Well, enjoying is one thing and then playing with the best one because I had over years, I had a very tense relationship with Lota Mateos because character wise we were so opposite. In what way? Do you think getting with each other? More, more and off off the field kind of, you know It started at Intermilan, then we met up again at Bayo Munich and so the player I played the most games in my entire career is Lota Matejos. We never realized that, but because we played at inter together and at Bayon together a national team, one hundred and fifty caps myself more than a hundred and And so we realized, well, we have so much actually in common But we were going at each other verbally and Is that because of your characters totally? Yeah, because we were just so so different the way we looked at life, we looked at things, you know. throughout those years H That was such a huge admiration from my end to him. He was literally in the early nineties I would say probably from eighty eight to ninety two ninety three For four five years, he was the best player on the planet. So when Diego basically went downhill then towards the end of eighty eight, eighty nine And it was not himself anymore in the ninety worldld cup already. And then obviously the drug issue came out ninety four then Lota Matez took over in eighty nine, ninety to be the best player in the world fo of years And to I mean, he was just like a box to box midfielder Um, Did all the right decisions in a split, split second bothow footed he had incredible speed, the first ten yards when he b it was like a Yeah, playing playing alongside him, I think, playing against it was Diego Maradona that I admired the most. alsoso Rude Gulit R for me fantastic Marco van Basten in an early nineties the best striker in the world, I would say for until he had he brok ankleskle Alongside it wasota Mateos. And you get around well with them no? Mateos? Totally yeah. Yeah literally not best friends, I be texting every Two weeks. Nice. Yeah. It's really became such a great friendship and respectful friendship and maybe you needed that needle. D you think you needed that and the team to drive each other around? And I think it was actually also something really positive, good for it because I was the nineteen World Cup team that woned them I was representing the younger group of players bit you know and he he was the establishment. He was the boss with Rudy Fulllo, with Andreas Breme. So three four Auentwn of in Bay Munich, the speper there They ran the show And I was kind of representing the younger kids, the rebels a bit. And then later I took over to the ninety six European Championship winning team Wow, so I think it kind of gave us additional energy. Yeah He thought for many years I kicked him out of the national team ninety six he was not called in because they had have horribly injury the year prior. He thought I didn't let him back in I closed the doors said I never did that. But he came back for the ninety eight World Cup team and in France. but no, it was like that. We kind of gave each other constantly additional energy Aition goodward end say. It Gost to sure you don't have to be the best of friends off the pitch as long as you've got that respect when you get over the wildline. You played one hundred eight times for Germany, you scored forty seven goals, which is absolutely incredible. But we always I don't know, maybe it's just the fact that you beat us in the ninety and ninety six tournaments and maybe it's just that sort of period. Obviously I was part of the ninety six squad with England in ninety eight We all watched it What was the secret of the German team being able to get over the line and just You said that the fine margins, there were fine margins is penalty shootouts and put you in both and you then go and win the tournaments. What is that difference? What is that sort of magic bit that you have that you had sorry Um I think It's difficult to say because it's like this. you know, it could have gone either way. Gasm is a chance. was itas gosasm' like bottle. and oh my gosh. There's so many opportunities that England had in both games that easily could have won both tournaments But I think the cultural path of Germany was that through the fifty four and the seventy four Um teams you know, winning the World Cups. You know, there was building an extreme amount of resilience in our society in Germany. And I saw the resilience in my parents and Lowa maters had a similar family and you looked in every family of these players, you know you saw they coming out from backgrounds where it's I never give up Her the hunger and also responsibility that we carried. you know, we always, obviously, even our generation We still needed to justify us ourselves for the horrible things that happened in World War two. know. And so you still in a certain way, even if your generation is not part of it But you still feel responsible you still feel like, you know bigger picture to everything, you know, you have to do more You cannot give up. You need to act a certain way. I remember as a captain, we played a game in Israel and we went to a Holocaast memorial And we put down a reeve and and the whole it was live on CNN. You know, and everybody just told before. I said, just not make any mistake but I said, what kind of mistake are? Not wearing the wrong outfit, not, you know I don't know. So we were always conscious about What happened in World War two. And I think that gave us an enormous amount of also capability to to focus, just to just Just zoom in Zoom, now you got to Gotta get it G gott to get a job done Don't step too much to the right and don't step too much to the left. And I think these tournaments we develop this is mental capability So okay, you know, we're not the best team here, the better teams here, but someomehow We going to figure out a way. beat any of these teams, you know, and ninety six euros that was Italy had a fantasticivizola, you know and these guys and we played Italy in last group stage came and if we lose that, we are not even going through. SoZ all I missed the penalty. And the Krypta in that tournament probably the best goalkeeper He saved everything. He said, this is incredible. But weew we just stood kind of allselves. we stayed focused and I think that That last piece of believe in ourselves that we are resilient. We gonna go through there now. no matter if they hit another five times the post or across P. 'll get and ninety six, we were By the time the final came, we were thirteen players left We lost ten players in the process, but with heavy heavy injuries and ACLs of injuries that Well taking him out for the next half a year And then we ask UFI if we can call in one more player Anyway, if I said, yeah, we have to ask Czech Republic, who ended up in the final if they agreed to it. and if so, they get another player too. But they had no injuries. But they got another player too. so we could call in one player as Jens Tdy played for Hamburg. He came over. two goalkeepers had field player jerseys made by Adidas in that moment in the ninety six final because we had no field players anymore And we knew that a net tech team was in our was We have a Neted Poborsskya was a fantastic team, but you still beat But still we said, you know, we at Germany, somehow we have to win this thing. So you beat us it gets worse, you beat us with half a scarffers. I was injured. I didn't play that much we got injured. Andy was injured Anymore, keep going Stick to foootball is brought to you by arm cllothing Was you more proud to play for Germ,our coach, Germany? No. playing is the best yeah, you can ever do I never thought I will manage a team. I did all the coaching licenses because Bertty Forkes, my former coach. he wanted the ninety ninety six team. someomehow a group of those players go the coaching route. We need, you know, like now Frank Lamp Pard is and And Stehven Jera and Michael Carrick, do you need these people being fed into the coaching aspect of things, so a solid base. So he organized a special coaching course for us and then I didn'tize, but I thought I will never. I' lived in the United States then already. and And then the fiasco happened. they lost in a group stage in two thousand four European championship in Portugal. and they were heavily criticized and Yudi Filllow was the manager. And two years before that, he got them into the World Cup final with Brazil And he said right away, I'm done. I'm out of here. And then they asked O my Hitzfelds, the Bayel Munich coach to take over. and he says, no, this team is not good enough And then they asked Otto Reag who won the Euros with Greece. you know, he became King Otto in Greece And he says, No, I'm not leaving Greece. I'm the king here. also a wonderful manager. And so they didn't know what to do. And Bertie Fokx came on vacation to California with his son and he stopped by at my place. And we had some barbecue and a glass of wine and suddenly he says, Well, what about you? You have the license and you could take over Is that? You have the best negotiations on a on. But when they say and they're going on vacation, they're definitely pulling up outside your house. What did't you say no I said, Berty, please don't joke around now because that's serious stuff. He said, N budy, I'm serious, you know because he says it's mainly it's Especially in a national team environment, it's people management first and foremost. And then all the other pieces you know, if it's an analytical side, if it's if it's guiding a staff behind the team, meaning the medical, the media staff, the administrative stuff, that's other areas that to we can cover with. First and foremost, it's about your players, and you have always been good with players And u And he said, then let me talk to them So next day he called the Federation. He obviously knows everybody and They called me back and said, Oh, we just heard that you met with Bertie In California, I said, Yeahah, that's what I did Yeah, we are interested in having a talk, chat with you And I said, but I'm not interested in flying to Frankfurt for chat and a cup of coffee. Yes And I said, how can we do that? And at those days, you know, you don't zoom. it wasn notah yet. U I said, let's meet in New York I fly to New York and you fly from Frankfurt to to New York and we talk. and that's how it all started you enjoyed it You enjoyed the row? I had a blast I really had a blast. I learned so much And my luck was when I went to America, I wanted to learn the business side of things and I had to called mentors. they were both Vice presidents of Adidas, global Adidas and they worked for other kind like Umbro, they worked for other companies and they built their own a marketing company and so they taught me W the business side of things, I was involved with the Los Angeles Galaxy to build the stadium there. that was called Home Depoton in the beginning And I had a consulting contract to build this. and so I did fairly okay But I learned many other aspects and then I could go and see Phil Jackson, coach the Lakers two days And Kobe Bryan crazy Football fan, you know, and we talked football the whole time. Then I went to too meet Billy Bean from the Oakland Ace then start the whole analytical site developed But to be talking that was twenty, twenty two years ago So he explained to me how they analyze basic the. Money Money ball. Yeah And then I went to Pete Carroll who coached the University of Southern California in Los Angeles and won the championships there and then became the coach of the Seattle Seaahawks. couple of years later, winning the Super Bowl And he ran me through he ran me through scouting He had a scouting department of tenen, fifteen people They analyzed every single play in the college American football world those days with big screens and he said, What play do you want to see? And I said I don't know any plays about American colloege footbine I show you son. Okay, we played Notre Dame four years ago we had display and pulled it up and had it on the screen And then explain to me how then they prepare a playbook for the players They give that playbook out to the players. They have to study the playbook about every tactical move, every tactical variation, they have to to go over and that's why the rookies so the young players in the first year play so little because they cannot learn the playbook so fast. So he gave me his playbook of USC that University And I had a friend of mine he went to the rivry University in Los Angeles called UCLA And we sat in the car afterwards and I had the playboy and I gave him the playboy said, you know hold the playbo because we need to look into it and see how they do that. How do they program that And He said to me, cannot touch that M. said, Well, you cannot touch that playbook. I said, Yeahah, but I'm from the other university You're not allowed to open that playbook put it on the back seat and I said, You guys are weird. Okay. Then I at home, I then opened the playbook and I studied it and said, this is incredible. That's like we would study corner kicks, free kicks. now they would do it for playing out of the back., which is so modern nowadays And and those things were all done already They were twenty years ahead of of our football. And so I learned all those things. And then when I got the German job and they said, you know, you would you be open to this disise I said, Yeahah, but I have to be honest. I look at things now differently because I live now here already six years in the United States. I look at things maybe a little bit too different. and I don't know if we match. I don't know if we can synchronize president of the German Federation. then at those days was then my former president of Stuttgart was the same person. He became president of the German Federation And he said, Yeahah, you were always a little bit out of the normal. What do you mean with that? I said, President I said, if I come in I might shock some people because I will do it very, very different to how Rudy did it. Rudy did it based on his education from the German Federation. I will do it on based on their education. I received now the last years in the United States. In many ways, yes, we melted with the German approach because I did those as well. But it might it might be a little bit too too aggressive So I need from you a piece of paper saying I have the Carte Blanche to stop It's not about money, it's about how I want to do it. And if you are not happy with me doing it that way, we can split anytime Anytime I don't care about the contractor. You come to me, you say, it's not working. I fly home to California. It's not a problem. so so I brought American fitness coaches in with Mark V Stagen in it's called athletes performance that worked individually with the athletes in American football and baseball, basketball, and hockey based on their positioning based on what they need. So we work differently now with the defenders, we work differently with midfielders, work different And then I brought analytical people in. I brought in a small psychologist, which No, twenty, thirty years ago, if you bring in a sport psychologist thought you are crazy. Are you're crazy yourself? So do you need some help? And I said, no, and I said, I have no idea if this is beneficial or not. but Everything you did before me in this sector in this category It didn't work, right? That's why you flew home from Port toal after the group stage. Why would I now do anything the same way you did before me So then why then take any anybody else. Yeah, rightight So I will be very provocative. I will be aggressive in how I want to do it I might call up players that you think, you know, they should not belong in the national team Because I think by talking to friends of mine and coaches of that I believe in, they tell me this kid at nineteen years will be very special player Even if I don't see that yet, If he sees it, I trust that coach's opinion So if you come and you see one special kid at sixteen, at Arsenal and wherever and then you say, this kid will be good. I will have a look at him. Yeah. So The second game we had actually a reunion of the twenty sixteenam a few days ago, the first time after twenty years You know we came all together And so there was a kid with the name P Muraakcer You He was nineteen. and Barely had thirty games in Bunesliga But I had two injured seerbacks And in those days, you, we didn't look around where is the next best center back in the league Its been German now. You look down to the under twenty one Who's the center back in Andrew twenty one, right? It was far us more important within the Federation to have this connection. So I called the end of twenty one coach. Do you have a center backack for me? So we're going to go to Iran, we play a friendly game in front of hundred thousand in Tehran I said, ye, I have this kid, you know,' tall kid, you know he's a little bit still trying to find his own buddy.. His name is Pmatasako and And I think he will be good one day So I called him and I said, P, you know, instead of going to twenty one for a friendly you come with us. us And then the day before the game in Tehran, a training session, I told him, listen, if things go well tomorrow You're gonna get your first cap And he was like, is coachhing. And then came the moment we were leading to Nil. was the game we went our way And then I looked back to him and I said Are you ready, P? and then So this is how then you know, it's just nice that these kind of stories then start and it's beginning and The players on embrace your new ideas and American coaches and yeah They were very skeptical becausecause for us German change It's not easy And I knew that. And I said into my introduction, I said, listen guys, it's I'm abroad now for six years, I mean most of my career, I was abroad I really believe that the way things were happening before did not work out. you know, just that's just truth. you know. And Rudy did his best he could do. So they asked me to come in and I have I'm really convinced that We have to go a different direction to try it out. If it doesn't work out with the American fitness coaches, with the sp psychologists, with the daters and all this stuff then I'm more than happy to change it again. You know. When you come to me like the Ctain was Oliver Khan and Michael Balak, those were the two captains You come to me and you tell me, it's not working thenen I'm totally open or I leave again, it's no problem either But then a step by step kind of The biggest problem was probably the rubber bands training session. So the warm up of the training session with rubber bands. That's what athletes performance became world famous for I might they were on TV everywhere in Germany in the papers and the players felt a little bit like foolish, you know And now it's everybody know. Yeah, everybody bands. But then the players started then to buy into it and said, okay, you know, let's And then we had the discussion about who we are, again, the Germans and searching their own identity I had these workshops with the players, or we coaches had it Then saying, how do you want to play? How do you feel inside? How should we represent this nation in two years from now in the World Cup two thousand six And then the players came up with Michael Balak said, we want to go forward. and the other one said, we want to be highly aggressive. you know, we want to go into one against on We want to do this. We don't do that and So after that put it on the flip chart, you, ten twelveds. and said, you know, if you analyze these ten twelve words, I said to players is in You know what that means And they were looking at me about And acidamans hell of a lot of work You know, we need to be fit as hell, we need to But if you up to it, we can build the program based on what you want to B then, you know? And that's how we kind of step by step We had the advantage not needing to qualify. Yeah. So we can test out experiment. Eximent. And one experiment went really brutally wrong three months prior the World Cup in Italy We got a lesson from Italy for one in Florence. And half of the nation wanted to fire me And half of the nation says, no, let's give him that tournament and see he can do it and endnder are And everybody got involved in that process. and this is something that I wish For England that you know, everybody gets involved in it kind of sees it himself, herself in that process Stick to football is brought to you by arm clothing ACAS powers the world's best podcasts H's a show that we recommend. If you've ever dreamed of quitting your job to take your side hustle full time, listen up. This is Nikala Matthewscome, host of Side Hustle Pro, a podcast that helps you build and grow from passion project to profitable business. Every week, you'll hear from guests just like you who wanted to start a business on the side. If you can't run a side hustle, you can't run a business. They share real tips. And so I started connecting with all these people on LinkedIn and I saw Target supplier diversity was having office hours. Real advice. 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We're going over to the World Cup in three weeks to watch the World Cup in America, and you've got obviously great experience of living over there. What can we expect that maybe we're not thinking right now, what's this World Cup going to be like? I think when we come from the outside Yeah to another country and we have a certain picture in mind about that country. Now it's three countries, Mexico, Canada, and the U.S, but it's mainly the United States. eighty percent of theames are in Um I think it's really, really important that we weome into that tournament with a big, big open mind. becausecause it's a wonderful nation. It's a fascinating country with all its pros and cons It's the country of opposites Politically, economically Um Culturally Immigration wise it's the country of immigration. you have every