Systemic Issues and Final Thoughts

From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know . A production of I Hart Brady Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. My name's Noel. They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer Dylan, the Tennessee Pal Vacan. Most importantly, you are you, you are here . That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. Now, fellow Netflix, conspiracy realists, you may see that a couple of us are on the road at this time . We are How can you tell Matt? How can you tell Matt? Probably by the fact that you specifically looked around at your room where you're recording. We also were mentioning being on the road because we are great fans of the globe. We are great fans of travel and we would like you to travel with us this coming October. If this is your first time tuning in to conspiracy stuff or stuff they don't want you to know . Why not hang out with us live? We're going on the high seas. It is within your grasp . Reach out to Virgin Voyages and book you a cabin on the stuff themed cruise . Or we're going to be hanging out with our buddies, Josh and Chuck from Stuff You Should Know and Annie and Sam from Stuff Mom never told you, it's gonna be a good time. It's gonna be such a good cruise, you guys. We just need . We just need you. So find that scratch . It's not it's not cheap. Look, we're not saying it's cheap to join us on this cruise, but we are saying it's going to be worth your time. It's gonna be awesome. October second through the seventh. Yeah, join us. We're embarking from New York. We're going all the way down to the Caribbean and we're getting into all sorts of shenanigans. The type of stuff you can only experience if you're on the vessel with us. Well guys, I mean, I think it was we were all cruise virgins on virgin cruises and this will be our second cruise. And I didn't think I was a cruise gu , but I sure am. It was a lot of fun. They really do a good job at Virgin Voyages. It's adults only . They have all kinds of fun parties and activities and excursions off the ship. And I don't know, man, I'm not just saying this. I don't think any of us are. We really had a great time and are really looking forward to this. Oh yeah. Just as a little taste , last time around , Ben and I got up at like nine AM to go do a rum tasting god which was early early for me guys No it's right didn't know we didn't know it was that early did not know and also that's part of the adventure, right? Yeah, not knowing the spontaneous nature . And yes , I'll confirm it . I will walk in the day on these cruises we take a lot of sunscreen man, a lot of like rapping, a lot good friends asking, hey, why do you always wear long sleeves? It's because of my ancient nemesis. Ben has a closet full of that same suit jacket, like fifteen of them. It's true. Batman. Just like if you remember that Earnest franchise? What's that guy goes to goes to Halloween Ernest Camp? There it is . All of those basically his closet. If I could say though too, I think this is going to sound silly, but my favorite part of the whole cruise experience was literally just hanging out on the little balcony of my cabin in this incredible hammock and just kind of chilling and watching the water and it's just incredibly serene and just a lovely way to unwind and very meditative and yeah,, I'm going to be doing a lot of that, but I'm also gonna be out and about. There's a casino, play a little blackjack together. Let's do it. Let's hang. My favorite part was watching Noel on his balcony. I would watch Noel Freaky Weird How did you see it? Oh you can find , you can find it. Okay, I'm just kidding. Spike gear ing one of those like mirrors, this little what are they called like a periscope with a mirror on it kind of it was all the way up to . We're old school fans of Spy Tech, both the toy brand and the actual trade craft because it helps you dive into hidden things and tonight is apparently creepy and your friends . Sorry to kill Ellis. Observe with benevolent observe and his natural observe with benevolent intent and we have we've recently , as you know, if you've been tuning into Netflix or your podcast platform of choice, we've been delving into some pretty esoteric occult stuff on our own. We hope you enjoyed those episodes as much as we do, but while we were neck deep in magic with a K , cryptids of Lake Superior and Tero cards and numerology, the great businesses of the world economy ground on in every waking moment. Even as we're recording this on Friday, june fifth, twenty twenty six , billions of dollars, not every day, every moment, billions of dollars are moving around the planet in ways the general public often never sees, let alone, comprehends or understands. One of the biggest movers in this field globally is a company a lot of people may have never heard of headquartered over in Minotauca, Minnesota. It's a little outfit called Cargill Cargill . Have you ever wondered where your big macs come from or your whoppers or all that meat in Walmart or food lion ? Where does it come from? How about all the salt? Maybe all the steel? Where does all of this stuff come from? And maybe we maybe you know what? We'll keep it in, but maybe I should pronounce Cargill correctly the way that William Wallace would. Cargill Wallace . We'll get to it. Brave heart , his mom his mom yelled at him. That is, we'll be right back . This is an IHR podcast . Guaranteed human . You know, we've all tumbled down an internet rabbit hole trying to self diagnose and it usually leaves us more anxious than informed. Our feeds are full of wellness trends, but how do we know it's real? What's exaggerated? And what's just wrong? Health versus hype from the American Medical Association. They break it all down with the Emmy nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez. He talks to doctors, influencers, and real people trying these trends not to cancel them, but to understand them. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters . So listen to health vs. hype wherever you find your favorite shows. Gargoy presents a thirty second podcast between your podcast. Today's story is shared by one of our listeners. It's called Betrayed by Bill . It was in that moment I caught who was staring back at me in betrayal or more like what? My insurance bill . With trembling hands, I grabbed my phone and switched to Geico, saving about nine hundred dollars in the process and never to be betrayed again . Now that was bloody riveting. It feels good when the story ends with savings. It feels good to Gaiko. Guys, Stuff at sea is a five nights adults only sailing trip that brings the Stuff Podcast Universe to life on board. This voyage is a culture soaked escape where pink sand paradise meets curious minds like ours. Sailing round trip from New York City to Bermuda on october second through the seventh, twenty twenty six , this voyage drops you straight into the Eihart Podcast stuff universe. Also will be there too, so let's hang out. And on top of the adults only experience you already love, you'll get live podcast episode recordings , behind the scenes sessions, themed activations, and more unmissable onboard moments. Learn more at Virgin Voyages dot com slash stuff . This july fourth comes celebrate at America 's Block Party, hosted by America two hundred and fifty. America's Block Party is a Can't Miss Fourth of July concert happening at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum, experience music performances from major artists, patriotic tributes, and the kickoff to giving fourth, helping to make july fourth the largest day of giving in American history. It's more than just fireworks. Learn more about this landmark celebration at America two fifty dot org org . Here are the facts. Okay , you probably heard the name, especially if you live in the United States or one of several victimized areas across the world , but don't feel bad if you've never actually heard the name Cargill the Company. Maybe we could do just a brief introduction to what this corporation is and why we're looking at it tonight. Yes. They are Cargill, a US based multinational corporation, most well known for their tremendous activ ity in the food sector. So they make grain , palm oils , vegetable oils, feed for animals, for livestock, starches, chocolate and glucose syrup , among other agricultural additives and ingredients. And they're also heavily involved in the transport of livestock. Well, that's good because I was running out of fingers to count this on. I'd have to I'd have to get the other fingers out there . They need some more. You let's get them toes out baby. Right, right, exactly. Weirdly enough , Card ill also has a big interest in financial services to the degree that it's almost a company nested within this larger company of Matroska Dal, which all multinational corporations are . Their financial arm , fascinatingly enough , is primarily focused on quote managing commodity market risk end quote, just for Cargill. Why do you have a you're an agricultural company? So why do you have your own inner cadre, your own small army of finance boffins just to keep an eye on your own activities ? It doesn't make sense at first until we realize this is the largest privately owned company in the United States by revenue. When I realized they were bigger than Coke industries, K OCHA was ino the Kch brothers . And then I realized, oh, well, I've seen that logo before with that little green leaf thing right over the Cargill name. Yeah. I realized I've seen it on industrial sites in all kinds of different states that I've been to. And I haven't traveled the world very extensively, but just here in the US , seen those things everywhere. I talked to my partner. She's like, oh yeah, there's several big ones out where I used to live. And I was like, what? They really are just everywhere. You not even notice them. Yeah, because it's purposefully , I would say a vague logo because it goes so many places. It's ubiquitous. You see a green leaf. You keep it moving and you help this company Cargill , especially if you live in the U. S., you help them generate annual revenue of one hundred forty billion dollars in twenty twenty five alone. That's actually a little bit less than the year before in twenty twenty four. They raked one hundred sixty billion US dollars privately held corporation. Five generations deep at this point. They have a full in their family, the Cargill family, they have a full fourteen billionaires . That's gotta be a weird family reunion. You know, very I'm picturing secession, honestly, guys. I'm picturing a bunch of really wealthy people having these high drama Shakes,peare an power things going on and kissing the ass and hating the ass of the patriarchy. Well, and let's just quickly remember that it is the Cargill family, but it's the Cargill cMillan family . And then there's like three or four other families that kind of super fused together to become the heirs and offspring and the Cargill plant . Yes, exactly. Yeah, the Cargill network if I want to sound, you know, a little more FBI about it. Yeah, I found a timeline of the evolution of their logo and their earliest one in eighteen sixty five or eight they had from eighteen sixty five to nineteen thirty . It looks like the kind of thing you'd see on the side of like a snake oil medicine show wagon. It says W W Cargill and Bro . Yes William Wallace Cargill. There you go. Yeah, for us, William Wallace. Yes. Before we jump into the absolute origins of this, when we're talking about just the amount of money that this privately owned company is raking down, the number of uni fathom s are benefiting to the tune of billions of dollars and again , generally through the stocks because you've just controlled stocks for this long , now you've got a hold of or you control stocks that are worth billions of dollars, which we'll get into it. It gets a little tricky when you're ready to take some of that billion of dollars and then let's say transform it into a trust or a fund or even something really good and philanthropic. It's hard it's hard to make that money real money. Yes . But there are at least last time I checked and I think from twenty twenty five, there were around one hundred fifty thousand employees of this company , which when you just think about the number of human beings that are directly working for this one giant organization, that is, of course , hundreds of subsidiaries , but it's so many humans that are not only toiling for the company, but then when you imagine how many human beings on planet Earth are touched by this company , it becomes unfathomable. Yeah , agreed. I mean, it wasn't always the case that Cargill was such a juggernaut back when our buddy Willy, William Wallace Cargill, if we could be familiar with you, sir, back when this guy found s the company. It's in Cornover, Iowa, it's eighteen sixty five . A lot of stuff was happening in the US at the time , and he got this single grain warehouse kind of in the middle of nowhere, he made a very smart purchase because this was at the very end of a railroad line called McGregor and Western, which was set to expand westward. His br others, two of his younger brothers join up and another brother joins them later , but when he starts powering up, getting his avengers together , they expand in line with the railroads . So every time the railroad makes a new connect, a new segment, a new expansion , Cargill is right there. Eventually they relocate to a place called Albert Le,igh Minnesota , the business becomes very popular with farmers . The railroad gets their money either way, so they don't particularly care, but the local farmers are impressed by emphasis these guys put on being early adopters, multiple floors for their greenhouses, conveyor systems, elevators, as a matter of fact, when old WW dies, the company is brief ly renamed the Cargill Elevator Company . Most especially what farmers are in love with the company's flexibility when it comes to storing, transporting, and most importantly , selling their crops . They are innovators of tactics as well as technology. They get super into vertical integration. That's where you , you know, instead of just saying, hey, farmers sell me grain , I sell the grain to some guy who takes it on the train, they say we want to run as much of this as possible. When people hear the elevator company Ben that you're talking about. Yeah. My mind goes to, oh, like they built elevators for buildings. How do they go from grain to that? Well, you have to realize is that one of the big innovations that we're talking about here are grain elevators . Yes. These things you've likely, I'm assuming you've seen them if you live anywhere in the Midwest or a lot of places just more rural here in Georgia and other places throughout the country or the world, you'll see these things, grain elevators that actually move supply up to the silo to where it can go down into where it needs to go. And that was a big deal . That was a really big deal to be able to store foods, especially grains in this way. Yeah, because you get more grain for your buck , basically with these very clever conveyor belts and this idea of vertical integration o.h O it's a, brilliant move. It reminds me of the financial aspect of it reminds me of that scene from Disney's Mary Poppins where they talk to the banker and he's like, Moh, this is how money works in a weirdly arch, creepy voice. This sets up what Cargill ultimately becomes , which is a vast global connector of transportation and of Earth's entire food supply. This is a very big deal. Well, and I think you already mentioned that it's a privately held company. So it's like not publicly traded. They've never done an idea. They've always maintained control over it within the family. I thought that was kind of unusual for a company of that size and financial magnitude . Absolutely. I think I misspoke when I said stocks. What I meant is shares of the company It is privately privately owned. So it is not like on the stock market, shares that you try and liquidate or turn into cash. It's more like here are the private shares of this corporation which is weird to Yeah, it's very different it's interesting because it is very similar but it's also different just depending on who owns it and how it's regulated. It's crazy to me that William Wallace was twenty one when he made that first move on the railway there with the grain supply with the grain storage unit. Just thinking of someone that age making that move and somehow seeing the future of where this rail is going and how it's going to change things . And then to be in the catbird seat in that moment as it begins to truly morph into this new fully connected system of states . It's crazy. Yeah , and he also , we should say, bought a lumber mill at the same time. Fast forward, there's more to the history, obviously , but those are the broad strokes of the origin story for our purposes tonight. What you need to know is now as of twenty twenty six, Cargill employs well over one hundred sixty thousand people in sixty six countries and they are active in more than sixty six countries old told officially seventy countries. And if you check in with the United Nations, which we do often because we're fun at parties , you will see that there are an estimated one hundred and ninety . I don't want to get us in trouble, but there's more than one hundred ninety countries, which means that Parkill has a huge footprint across the globe. They're responsible you guys for something like a quarter all grain exports from the United States. So you could literally go and count el ksern of corn or pieces of wheat and one out of four of those little pieces would be touched by cargill. It also, you know, we talked about this, I think in a strange news segment not too long ago , they supply more than twenty percent of all of the U. S. meat in the domestic market. They're also the only people who make the salt in the US that goes in your f avorite fast food joint. It's a thing called Alberter process salt . So yeah, they got their they got a stranglehold. It's crazy to look you can look at Google Maps in Newark, California, you can see one of the Cargill Salt plants and you can look at it above from above to see the pile of salt. They have two parallel piles of salt that you don't understand how big it is until you zoom in and you see what looks to be some form of bulldozer that is going across the pile of salt and then you understand how massive that machine is and how teeny tiny it looks on this mountain of salt . And it's fascinating to know it's just ocean water that they process over like five to ten years. It's crazy. It's a crazy process very interesting , but it's nuts. Forget banana for scale. This is bulldozer for scale stuff. Yeah it's Cargill affects so many industries that when we talk about their activities , it's actually easier to ask what they don't do because in addition to food for humans, in addition to the livestock trade, they're also in bio health. Oh wait and beauty. Oh wait and animal nutrition and oh gosh biofuel. Oh and trading and then also oh yeah finance etc , et cetera, et cetera What do you steal very much so there's another unofficial activity for Cargill . As with most if not all companies of its size, Cargill every year uces a lot of what we can diplomat ically call controversy . And they rack up a bunch of fines , which we'll talk about and get into the cost of doing business in the way that a massive corporation like this with so many subsidiaries and folks who do work for Cargill in different ways. A lot of fines, a lot of I don't know if you guys notice some quite a bit of slavery going on or at least alleged slavery going on here. Yeah, over the decades,g Carill encountered criticism growing in step with the growth of its economic portfolio. This is what led Congressman Henry A. Waxman to go so far as to call Cargill, quote, the worst company in the world . And our question is, what does that mean exactly? If we get past the slick PR campaigns, the sanitized history, the comp any's website and timeline . What exactly has Cargill been up to? We'll be back after word from our sponsors . We've all done it. We've tumbled down an internet rabbit hole trying to self diagnose . And sometimes doing our own research can leave us even more anxious than informed. And your feet is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge or protein max or deto x or track your sleep, but what's actually real and what's exaggerated and what's just plain wrong? That's exactly what health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and IHR Media's Ruby Studio is here to find out . That's right each episode. Trace Dominguez, Emmy nominated science communicator interacted a billions of views across PBS, discovery channels, and YouTube. Talks to doctors, influencers , and real people who are trying out these trends. Not to cancel them, not to hype them even more, but to actually understand them . 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It was in that moment I caught who was staring back at me in betrayal or more like what? My insurance bill . With trembling hands, I grabbed my phone and switched to Geco, saving about nine hundred dollars in the process and never to be betrayed again . Now that was bloody riveting. It feels good when the story ends with savings. It feels good to Geiko. If you ever wanted to feel what it's like inside an episode of a show you love, hang with podcast hosts beyond the mic, or maybe swap screens for sunsets with curious , like minded people , then stuff at sea is your kind of voyage . Stuff at sea is a five night culture soaked escape where pink sand paradise meets curious minds. Sailing round trip on october second through seventh, twenty twenty six from New York City to Bermuda. This voyage drops you straight into the IHART podcast Stuff Universe . And on top of the adults only experience you already love. You'll get live podcast episode recordings, behind the scenes, sessions, themed activations , and more unmissable onboard moments I want to spoil it, but just come hang out. With overnight stays in Bermuda, there's no rush , just long, sun drenched days to explore , or do absolutely nothing at all. Back on board, curiosity sparks connection through conversations, experi ences and a lineup designed to keep things as thought provoking as they are unforgettable. Stuff at sea is a part of our new specialty sailing collection that transforms beloved podcasts into immersive at sea experiences, exclusively with Virgin Voyages . So expect more stories, more host and more ways to experience the voices you love. Book now at Virginvoyages com dot slash stuff here's where it gets crazy. All right. According to the critics, Cargill has been pretty busy doing all sorts of nefarious things. Not the usual unfortunate could happen to anyone. Accidents were failures of function, like accidentally sp oiling or contaminating meat , but also accusations of human trafficking , child labor, environmental degradation, and price fixing. It's crazy guys. It's by design to get away from this because ninety percent of the company, we're talking about this a little bit earlier, ninety percent of the company is still held by descendants of the Cargill Celan and they want to be a private company. I would say they need to be a private company because this means they don't have to disclose all the detailed information that you would require of a publicly traded company the United States. There is literally stuff they don't want you to know at play here . Yeah, and most of it's happening in Montana , where a lot of the family lives quietly, secretly. Yeah. And be a private company. Be quick to point this out. It's not inherently illegal. The issue is no , but the issue is a lot of the stuff laid at Cargill's feet does in fact orbit around very illegal things. Can we talk about the environment a little bit? Are we all still fans of the environment? Where are we on that? Love it. Okay. Really back in, maintain it, preserve it, you know? Yeah, it around. Yeah. Where we at the rangotains? Fans . Same. Scary though. No, it will rip your face off. Yeah, but they're so chill. Maybe that's more chimpanzees, but I don't know, rangotans can probably get a little wild too, but no, they are very regal majestic creatures and they should, you know, be allowed to exist. They're like, to me, they're like very clever goofy dudes. Check out our check out our earlier episode on cryptids you've never heard of. Orang patad. Yeah, of course. The Orang Mignac. Wasn't that one as Yight . But Ben, if I'm not mistaken, a lot of the initial controversy we're gonna talk about revolves around something that I think many folks might know is problematic in its production, something called palm oil. Ooh, yeah, you nailed it As we all know, palm oil itself is a sticky wicket. We get to that in a second, but you're absolutely right . ninety two percent of the world's collective consumption of palm o il, which is used in so many things. It comes from two countries Indonesia and Malaysia. You'll also see production in Papua New Guinea. By their own admission, they can go to Cargill and ask them yourself. They'll say they operate twenty refineries , nine mills, three , what they call kernel crush plants and nine palm plantations across the globe . They also are quick to point out, hey, palm oil one way or another, it's consumed in more than one hundred thirty three countries, sometimes as food , sometimes in other applications like biofuels or of course cosmetics . They're the largest US importer of palm oil. They source it from twenty six producers in a proxy network and they buy something right now. They buy something like over ten percent of Indonesia's total palm oil output . But it turns out there's a blood price to ld these palm oil profits TR OF IT S There are a lot of problems. One of them is child labor . That's a whole thing that gets into this. There's a lot of child labor and forced labor that shows up in some of Cargill's history. It's usually, we gotta give him this a little bit guys. It's usually a supplier or an organization that is functioning on behalf of Cargill, right? For Cargill, doing like getting the cocca beans for Cargill, or the palm oil for Cargill . And it's not necessarily Cargill and employees doing it, but the company sure is benefiting from the works of this kind of thing, as well as the massive deforestation required to create these palm oil plantations. Yeah, through its various supplier networks, which we'll get into. Cargill has been repeatedly for decades implicated in aiding and abetting what we could diplomatically call oh, I'm looking for the right phrase guys, social conflicts . I'm pulling that from some international aid reports . And to your point there, Matt , their suppliers are groups like Wilmar International, Sinarmas and Dutop ma, they're known for routinely breaking the law by burning vast swathes of rainforest, you know, where the orangutanes live. And one example we could do just very quickly to give you a high level perspective on this , go to Sumatra in twenty eleven. This is where Wilmar had employed security forces and local police to use violence and intimidation against villagers. Oh, and they also destroyed their homes. I think the local police are in practice employed by Cargill in this case. They were conducting raids because a villager was had a side hustle selling palm oil fruits. And they said, well, you've stolen this palm oil from us. And he was like, Well, I work at the place. I live here. And they were like, Burn down the neighborhood. Use live fire on these civilians. And that happened under Cargill's perfume. Dare you poached the king 's palms blood price . The king's palms. It's something to think about next time we get a hanker in for Natella. And like we're mentioning, no, I'm sorry, it keeps getting stuck on this one. If the violence against humans isn't quite magging up your badgers , think of all that massive deforestation in one of the last truly diverse ecosystems on the planet. Think of how the orangutes will soon have nowhere left to live. Well, and there's another thing we learned directly from the mighty earth and that Cargill, the worst company in the world article that came out a little while back . This comes from their timeline september twenty twelve palm oil from child and slave labor. And I'm just going to read this. It's pretty short. Schuster Institute senior fellow E. Benjamin in Skner supported by a team of journalists traced Cargill's purchase of Indonesian palm oil to Kuala Lumpur . The report published by Business Week found extensive evidence of workers , many of whom were children, being def rauded, abused and held captive by KLK's labor management . Just to add that on top, this is just a thing that occurred in twenty twelve . And that is specifically with the palm oil trade. If we get into other trades, there are other very specific accusations of this exact type of practice. Some of it is even more gruesome. Yeah . And to be fair, as we're wrapping up the palm oil stuff , in two thousand four, Cargill voluntarily became a member of something called the round table on sustainable palm oil or RSPO , they set the ethical standards for palm oil production. We can think of it kind of like the Kimberly process for the diamond trade and how that was supposed to stop the prolifer ation of child labor and conflict sourced so called blood diamonds. But even now, RSPO routinely comes back and says there's a huge gulf between what Cargill told us they were going to do, what they agreed to do, and what actually does occur under their purview today in the palm oil industry is just the beginning. You could see the same story in the Brazilian Amazon. Cargill is one of the largest controllers of soybean production. This is also around the same time. We see Cargill condemned in the first instance for having cocoa suppliers , rural producers who provably practice child labor and enslavement. Let's pause for a word for our sponsors. I think we all need a quick breather before we get into the really dark stuff which may not be appropriate for all audience members. We've all done it. We've tumbled down an internet rabbit hole trying to self diagnose. And sometimes doing our own research can leave us even more anxious than informed. And your feet is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge or protein max or detox or track your sleep. But what's actually real and what's exaggerated and what's just plain wrong? That's exactly what health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and IHR Media's Ruby Studio is here to find out. That's right each episode, Trace Dominguez, Emmy nominated science communicator interacted a billions of views across PBS, discovery channel, and YouTube, talks to doctors, influencers, and real people who are trying out these trends. Not to cancel them, not to hype them even more, but to actually understand them . Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Start asking better questions and listen to health vs. Hype on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. If you ever wanted to feel what it's like inside an episode of a show you love, hang with podcast hosts be yond the mic, or maybe swap screens for sunsets with curious, like minded people. Then stuff at sea is your kind of voyage . Stuff at sea is a five night culture soaked escape where pink sand par adise meets curious minds. Sailing round trip on october second through seventh, twenty twenty six from New York City to Bermuda, this voyage drops you straight into the EiHeart podcast's stuff universe. And on top of the adults only experience you already love, you'll get live podcast episode recordings, behind the scenes, sessions, themed activations , and more unmissable onboard moments, I wanna spoil it, but just come hang out. With overnight stays in Bermuda, there's no rush , just long, sun drenched days to explore, or do absolutely nothing at all. Back on board, curiosity sparks connection through conversations, experiences and a lineup designed to keep things as thought provoking as they are unforgettable. Stuff at sea is a part of our new specialty sailing collection that transforms beloved podcasts into immersive at sea experiences, exclusively with virgin voyages . So expect more stories, more hosts, and more ways to experience the voices you love. Book now at Virginvoyages dot com slash stuff . This july fourth come celebrate at America's Block Party, hosted by America two hundred and fifty. America's block party is a Can't Miss Fourth of July concert happening at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum, experience music performances from major artists, patriotic tributes, and the kickoff to giving forth, helping to make july fourth the largest day of giving in American history. It's more than just fireworks. Learn more about this landmark celebration at America two fifty. org Lugging for something new? Try fencing, the Olympic and Paralympic sport that mixes speed, strategy, and fun. It's like chess meets cardio, quick feet, quick decisions, and a satisfying beep when you score a point. Kids, teens and adults can start anytime, no experience needed, and many clubs have loner gear. Coaches teach fundamentals and safety from day one. Find a beginner class for your kids near you at try fencing dot org dot That's try fencing dot org and we've returned and this been teased before the break a bit of a trigger warning here. This is going to get dark. It involves discussion of child abuse , child labor, human trafficking, all kinds of nasty stuff. So here we go. So there have been repeated accusations of the aiding and abetting of human trafficking and child labor by Cargill . In addition to this seeming beef they have against the regal Orangutan Sorry Bad. No, it's true. They're beefed up with the Orangutans, it would seem. Cargill has run into numerous accusations that three of their palm oil plantations in Papua New Guinea are essentially using slave labor . Formerly independent farmers got converted into essentially , you know, surfs basically false premises of contributing to new infrastructure that would help, you know, their communities, stuff that never actually comes to fruition and purposefully complex debt schemes , company store type stuff, like in this sixteen tons song that we often reference . In response to a two thousand seven report, Cargill's own man agement did admit that they couldn't guarantee that their papua and New Guinea plantations were entirely free from child labor or bonded servitude. They would do their best though, they said, but no, they didn't say that either. Could not guarantee seems like a thing you should be able to guarantee. Yeah, shout out to Nestle, right in the worst possible way. This appropriam that you were kind of teasing as well , Noel is your point now . It's not limited to Papua New Guinea. In twenty twenty three, the an outfit called International Rights Advocates sued Cargill on behalf of child plaintiffs in Ghana . This is the one this is one of the cases that's going to keep you up at night if you haven't heard about it before . What they found is that a lot of these partners or subcontractors for C oco outfits , especially in West Africa , they were enslaving children, children as young as five years old appeared to be put out in the field working in the cocoa industry. This was alleged by international human rights nonprofits. It was verified by independent journalists. CBS Nsew looked into it . And this lawsuit that international rights advocates brought on behalf of these children , it came to us only after court case occurred where in the U. S. Supreme Court, yep, the Ringbraiths, the creepy ringbraiths said Nestle USA and Cargill can't be sued for child slavery on African farms where they buy their cocoa from. And they said, this is why they said the case can't go in U. S. court. They said most of the alleged conduct occurred abroad , the implication being that if you're a if you're a corporation , you can go frickin ham. You can murder and enslave as many people as you want, just don't do it in Virginia , et cetera . Don't like it. I disagree with the Scotus. Nope, don't like it in Scotus. I don't know, man, they're increasingly problematic. Yeah ,. non ideal Not I mean if Raythe Wraiths are doing wraith stuff . They're Wraithan man . They're Wraithan for Raytheon. And to be fair, a lot of us in the audience, especially the more cynical of us , may some validity , imagine that these companies like Nestle and Cargill and specific have used their enormous political and financial capital to exercise influence upon the scales of justice . I want to be careful how we say that. It hasn't been proven. Like there's never been a current or former justice of the Supreme Court who came out and said, you know, yeah, Cargill gave me a sick RV . So I said, You guys do what you want. That hasn't happened yet. I hope it does. In I'm just going to read this. This is again from that same report. In july two thousand five, the International Labor Rights Forum filed suits against Cargill, Nestle, and Archer Daniels Midland on behalf of Molly and children , alleging they were trafficked into the Ivory Coast coated to ivory and forced to work twelve to fourteen hours a day with no pay, little food and sleep, and frequent beatings on farms producing cocoa beans for cargill . And there's another little thing in here from twenty eighteen that goes back, I think it's talking about one of the it's one of the movements that you were just mentioning there been about who can get sued for this? Can US companies like Cargill be sued by former slaves who are working on one of these plantations somewhere? I'm just going to read this short little thing . According to reports from the Courthouse News Service, there were six plaintiffs whose case was allowed to be moved forward as ruled that it was allowed to be moved forward. They claimed they were kidnapped from Mali's children in the nineties. We talked about all this stuff , right? They said those same kids said that there were children there who when they tried to escape were forced by the , I don't know what you would call them, the enforcers . They're forced to drink urine . Often they would have their feet cut so that they could not run away and attempt to escape the plantation . This is like the kind of tactics that slave catchers used like, I mean yes. It's Bastonado is the word for that specific type of torture method . They said specifically that pepper would be rubbed into the wounds on their feet so it would be excruciating for them. And then they're going to work twelve to fourteen hours lifting heavy satchels of these large fruits that have the cocoa beans in them . And the most disturbing thing, at least according to the children who were there , who are now trying attempting to sue Cargill and these other companies. They said that Nestle and Cargill representatives would visit the farms several times a year and, you know, these are kids, but they are saying there was an awareness that there were children working there producing the goods that would then be sold on the cheap. Exactly. Yeah . And we don't have to get into the allegations of sexual abuse , but folks, you need to realize those are part and parcel of this sort of dehumanization . It just it goes on and on and on and you know, it'd be amazing and perhaps the right thing to do for us to make a stuff They don't want you to know spinoff series just about activities from Cargill, there's way too much for one episode here , but we should let you know a little bit about how the system works. We want you to understand why these conspiracies are so successful, why it is so easy for multinational corporations to get away with stuff that would put an individual in prison for life . Okay, the truly big corporations, the multinationals , they're not usually thing past the boardroom. They're a rat's nest of other subsidiaries , contractors, separate companies, independent partners. It's a huge help for taxation . And sometimes, yes, trying to be fair , it can be a necessity when you're operating in other countries with their own laws and regulations . But with that tax structure, legal advantage crap comes hidden benefits. The liability moves with the autonomy. So quick thought experiment . And Dylan, I didn't check with you in advance. So let me know if this is off base man . Okay, guys, let's say for example our best friend, Dylan Facet, has an intern ational jellies and sweets conglomerate called Tennessee Pudding right? Okay . Okay, just some down home sweets . Just a down home candy. Is there really begg aa flavor? Of course they're excited. Best seller . So okay, Tennessee putting with no G 'cause it's down home. It's got a bunch of sugar cane from a supplier in another country , that supplier turns out to be raising forest , destroying local communities, enslaving the people and the children who live there. And then Tennessee's legal department can say Guys, we feel terrible too. Guys, we feel terrible too. We're as surprised as you. Tennessee Puddin is about a down home, locally supported business . We can't keep our eye on every fallen sparrow of human rsat . And everybody stands up and claps. I like that guy. He seems nice. He just seems so wholesome and down home . Well he also has to commit to like a twenty year plan to stop all the sl avery . But it's going to take twenty years though, but we're gonna do it . We'll get to it eventually. Yeah, you pull a proxy. That's the system. You hide the hand and often the judge will agree with you. If the judge doesn't agree with you, then wamp wamp, womp, you pay a fine. You have no criminal charges, right The other thirteen billionaire members of your family are still billionaires , this is the cost of doing business . And if downstream suppliers try to bucket you, then they could get it too. You know what? I mean, we I think it was still in Mighty Earth in multiple other reports , we found that there are other corporations that you would rightly consider giants, places that own multiple grocery stores and they say they have to play along with Cargill's game . Oh yeah , because don't forget they have a Oh God, we didn't even talk about like the listeria outbreaks that have happened over the years from all of their meat processing plants or what was the other one? There's a huge one with their turkey production and their ground beef production and just it's crazy the number of people have gotten super