Ethical Questions and Investigations

This is an IiHart podcast Guaranteed human. Living with a rare autoimmune condition brings uncertainty, but it can also create community. In season six of Untold Stories, Life with a severe autoimmune coondition, they go beyond MG and CIDP, as host Martine Hackett welcomes stories from other conditions like myositis and IGN into the conversation. Untold Stories is produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenics. Listen to Untold Stories, Life with a severe Autoimmune condition on the iHart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts Hey everybody, we are getting ready to go on a trip. We're not packed yet, but our brains definitely are because we have a trip to Bajamar on the horizon. and it's kind of all I can think about. I'm so excited about the food. There are amazing restaurants and lounges there that I'm gonna sample everything I possibly can. I'm going to gaze into the water and mostly I am gonna watch the daily fllamingo parade which might be the thing I'm most excited about. There's also an incredible spa and I know Tracy's going to be takaking advantage of that. There is excited and then there is Bahamar excited. Start planning at bahamar. comot Alienwar's Back to schoolchool event is the perfect time to score top gaming gear with incredible features and advanced engineering to go beyond performance Start your Alienware journey with the Alienware fifteen gaming laptop featuring Intel core processors, game, live stream and multitask for hours on end. Pair your incredibly smooth gaming experience with immersive visuals and sound by saving on sleek alienware monitors, headsets and more. This limited time sale awaits you now at alienware dot com slash deals The oldld gaze are back with Silver Linings, their lovable podcast from Iheart's Ruby Studio in partnership with VV Healthcare. Robert, Mick, Bill and Jessse strut back down memory Lane for season two, sharing lessons on life, love, and loss. These are the kind of insights that only come from experience. So tune in to Silver Linings with the oldld Gazayse on the Iheart Radio app casts or wherever you get your podcasts Snoring, gasping for air during sleep, daytime sleepiness. I'm Shquil O'Neill and this shouldn't be anybody's experience. As your doctor about Zbound to zepatyime, The first SZNOi FDA approved prescription medicine from moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea in adults with obesity TZzbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zbound is approved as a two point five, five, seven point five, ten, twelve point five, or fifteen milligram injection. Zbound contains trizepetide and should not be used with other trizepotide containing products or any GLP one receptor agonist medicines It is not known if ZPBound is safe and effective for use in children Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had Medary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type two. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop step bound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, planant to be or taking birth control pills, taking Zbound with a sulfonyal urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar side effects include nausea, diarrhea and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. callall one eight hundred five four five five nine sevven nine or visit zbound. liily d. com Surday. Last Saturday we rereleased our episode on Operation Paperclip. Today's classic is our follow up to that episode, which covered four people who were brought to the US under this program This originally came out may twenty sixth, twenty twenty one. Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of IiHart Radio Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson, and I'm Holly Fry. Last time, we talked about Operation Paperclip, also known as Project Paperclip, which was the effort to bring German scientists, engineers, and other specialists to the United States after World War II. And this built on an earlier program that was called Operation Overcast, and that had given the same types of specialists short term contracts to either work in Germany or to work in the United States under military supervision But under Operation Paperclip, most of those specialists that were brought to the US actually got the opportunity to become US. citizens Aout one thousand six hundred total specialists entered the US through this program And more than ninety percent of the ones who arrived between nineteen forty five and nineteen fifty two went on to become US citizens For the most part, they were recruiting relatively young folks. They were mostly under the age of forty when they left Germany And although most of them started out working for a branch of the military, about ten percent were initially hired at the Department of Commerce So as we talked about last time, but for a super quick recap in case. folks have skipped that episode when this program was established It was taken as a given that most of these people had at least some involvement with the Nazi Party In the words of a Joint intntelligence obbjectives agency report, quote, Such membership was due to exigencies which influenced the lives of every citizen of Germany at that time Especially in the early years of the program, there were also a whole lot of assurances that the people who were being targeted for this were the quote good Germans and that they would all be pres screened to confirm that they were not ardent Nazis. So it's possible that many or maybe even most of the people who came to the US through the program really did meet these criteria, but others definitely did not And this was not just a matter of Nazis and war criminals managing to evade detection. The people and agencies who were involved with running this program intentionally obscured the most damning details from candidates' backgrounds Eespecially if their knowledge and expertise seemed particularly valuable So my intent had been to talk about this program and then talk about some of the more well known people who were part of it It turned out that just talking about the program was a whole episode by itself. So today we are going talk about A few of the most famous and infamous paper cllippers Some of whom were connected to some truly horrific war crimes So probably the most famous of all of the operation paperclip specialists was Werner von Brunn His thesis for his PhD in physics had involved rocket thrust engines, which came out of work that he did at Kumersdorf Army Proving Grounds under another future paperclipper, officer Valter R. Dornberger This work had been funded by the German army Although Van Brown's rockets had potential as a weapon His real interest was space, and in a lot of ways he used the military promise of his work as a means to an end. At point he was quoted as saying, quote, We felt no moral scruples about the possible future use of our brainchild We were interested solely in exploring space. It was simply a question with us of how the golden cow could be milked most successfully By nineteen thirty seven, the German army had outgrown the Komersdor facility and needed a more remote location to conduct rocket tests, so the team moved to Pinamunde on the coast of the Baltic Sea. Von Braun became the technical director at Pinamunda at the age of just twenty five That same year, he also accepted an invitation to join the Nazi partarty Later, he also joined the Schutstae or SS, where he ultimately became a Surbnfuhr or major Von Braun and the team at Pinamunda developed a weapon that would become known as the V two translated from German as the vengeance weapon to which was the first long range ballistic missile. In nineteen forty three, the Allies bombed this facility, so all the weapons development and production operation there were moved underground, using an old mine to house a facility that became known as Mittelberg People who were being imprisoned at the Midbao Dora concentration camp complex were forced to work in truly horrifying conditions, including digging out the tunnels by hand with nowhere to sleep and no hygiene facilities. Most of the people being held at Middelbaudora were political prisoners from multiple countries, especially the Soviet Union, Poland, and France Jewish and Romani prisoners began to be deported to the camp after the spring and fall of nineteen forty four. The use of enslaved labor at Middlevk continued after the facility was finished, with the prisoners building the weapons that were being produced there. According to Brian E. Krimm, author of Our German's Project Paperclip in the National Security State M people died building V two rockets than were actually killed through their use as a weapon. In August of nineteen forty three and April of nineteen forty five, at least sixty thousand people were forced to work on these weapons And at least twenty thousand of them died of things like starvation, illness, executions, suicides, and just being worked to death Officials at the facility also carried out at least two mass hangings. One, in particular was carried out in a very gruesome way, with the other prisoners forced to witness it Some of the rockets had exploded on the launch pad, raising suspicions that someone was sabotaging them, and that mass hanging was meant to deter future sabotage Although many of the staff that had worked at Pinamunda were transferred to Middlewirk and worked on site there Bernner von Brun actually worked elsewhere, but he did tour this facility at least once, and he knew about the terrible conditions and the use of enslaved labor there At one point he testified at the trial of three SS members who had worked at the Middlebaldora concentration camp complex And he acknowledged the appalling conditions and the use of enslaved labor in that testimony In nineteen forty four, the Gestapo arrested von Braun and held him for about two weeks Sources differ about exactly what prompted this arrest. In some accounts he was being really disparaging about Germany's chances to win the war, and he was only released after Dornberger convinced the Gestapo that he was critical to missile production This arrest sometimes comes up as evidence that Von Braun wasn't a quote real Nazi and had only been involved in the Nazi Party and the SS out of self preservation or even opportunistic motives. or because he had perhaps been coerced. In the spring of nineteen forty five, as Germany was rapidly losing ground in the war, the Soviet Red Army was advancing toward Von Braun's location He and Dornbgger both believed the United States would see as and that surrendering to the Americans would be really preferable to being captured by the Soviets So they and many of their colleagues fled and went into hiding Even though Hitler had ordered the destruction of anything that could be useful to the Allies, von Braun hid his research work, and he later went back and retrieved it On may second, nineteen forty five, Von Braun, Dornberger and one hundred and twenty six principal engineers from Middelvk surrendered to an American GI They had sent Von Braun's younger brother, Magnus to make contact with the Americans, both because he was the most familiar with the English language and because he knew how critical it was to keep the details of what was happening at Midelberg's secret Joseph Stalin was not pleased with this at all reportedly said,Qote, This is absolutely intolerable. We defeated the Nazi armies. occuied Berlin and Pinamunda, but the Americans got the rocket engineers What could be more revolting and more inexcusable? How and why was this allowed to happen? Once von Braun got to the US, he worked at White Sand's Proving Ground in New Mexico, where he helped American forces learn about and learn to use the V two rockets that he had developed In nineteen forty seven, when he was thirty five, he returned to Germany to marry Maria Louise von uistdrop, who was his eighteen year old second cousin After his return, he went on to become director of the U S. Army Ballistic Missile Agency in Huntsville, Alabama where he helped develop the Redstone Rocket, which was based on the V two The Redstone was a ballistic missile that could carry a nuclear payload Bum Brown started formally proposing plans for space exploration around nineteen fifty four, but the Amy really wanted him to keep focusing on weapons development He eventually got his wish, though. After NASA was established, he became director of the George C. Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama When Ellen Shepppard Jr. became the first American in space in nineteen sixty one, the launch vehicle was a modified redstone rocket, Bon Brown had helped to develop He also led the team that developed the Saturn five rocket for the Apollo project In addition to being such a major part of the space program Von Brown became a public face for space exploration In nineteen fifty five, he appeared on the magical world of Disney episodes, Man in Space, Man and the Moon, and Mars and Beyond He appeared in multiple other documentaries in the nineteen fifties and sixties and was also a technical advisor for Disney He wrote multiple books and he was on the cover of Time Magazine in nineteen fifty eight One of the reasons that there are still some question marks about von Braun's motivations and decisions before and during World War II is that he died in nineteen seventy seven At point most of the documents related to Operation Paperclip were still classified. That was also before the Office of Special Investigations opened its investigation into Von Brown's colleague, Arthur Rudolph which we mentioned in the previous episode, they'll come up again later The OSI actually hadn't even been established yet when Von Brown died. While there had definitely been vocal critics of Project Paperclip for most of its existence In nineteen seventy seven, there was still a general belief that ardent Nazis and war criminals had been kept out of the program And von Braun himself had critics as well. As one example, Tom Larr's satirical song, Vernneravon Brown included such lyrics as onnce the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department, says Vernna von Braun. But in general, after his death, Von Braun was widely eulogized President Jimmy Carter called him a man of bold vision and said, quote, To millions of Americans, Verner von Brown's name was inextricably linked to our exploration of space and to the creative application of technology N just the people of our nation, but all the people of the world have profited from his work We will continue to profit from his example Today, historians and biographers have argued that Von Braun was everything from an opportunist who joined the Nazis out of sheer necessity arrdent war criminal who never faced justice The clearest is that he was definitely a member of the Nazi partarty and of the SS. that he knew about the use of slave labor and the terrible conditions at Middlevk. And that consequently he was at just a minimum complicit in all of that He was also present for at least one meeting in which Middlevk's general director, George Rickkey, planned out the acquisition of French prisoners of war to use as forced labor He also developed a weapon that Germany deployed against allies of the United States, killing at least five thousand people, but then he became a US citizen in nineteen fifty five We just mentioned Arthur Rudolph, and since we only covered him briefly in the earlier episode He is where we are going to pick up. But first we are going to pause for a little sponsor break Living with a rare autoimmune condition can bring a lot of uncertainty, but it can also bring people together in powerful ways. Tune in for season six of Untold stories, Life with a severe autoimmune condition, a Ruby Studio production in partartnership with Arenics. This season, host Martine Hackett brings you fresh stories from people living with MG and CIDP and expands the conversation to people living with other rare conditions, like myositis and IGAN Through their stories, you'll learn what it's like to participate in clinical trials seeking new treatments, how connection fuels hope, and how people can support one another along the way. Because living with a rare disease isn't about getting through it, it's about moving forward together. Listen to Untold stories, life with a severe autoimmune condition on the IiHart radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts Guess who's back in the house The Old Gays returned for season two of Silver Liningings, their hit podcast from IiHart's Ruby Studio in partnership with VV Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert, McBill, and Jessse have in store this time around. They stret back down memory lane, navigating life loveo, loss, and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kinds of insights that can only come from experience. So listen to your elders, honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you All Sass, zero filter, and decades of perspective from four friends, proving that queer joy only gets better with age on the podcast that never gets old. Listen to Silver Linings available on the iHart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts Alrighty, there is excited and then there is vacation excited. and we are vacation excited right now because we have a trip planned to Baha Mar in Nassau. To be honest, I'm kind of mentally already checked in and I have a beautiful drink in my hand What I love about this is that you can do it your way. There are three luxury hotels all in one place, the Reined Rosewood, the playlfully hip SLS, or the stylish Grand Hyatt. no matter what your vibe is, if it's relaxed, if it's glam, if it's kind of somewhere in between, you're covered. and then there is everything else. This is like an embarrassment of options. There are more than forty five restaurants, bars and lounges Incredible chefs, incredible drinks. I'm going to be all over that. There is a lot of great nightlife that you can get into like the John Baptiste Jazz Club, which I am also very excited about. If you are a family going to visit, there's a fifteen acre water park and what I am also excited about shark and sea turtle encounters, bring them on and don't even get me started about the daily fllamingo parade If you're into sporty stuff, all there. There is a golf course, tennis, pickleball, anything you can think of. Tracy's gonna spend a lot of time at the spa and we are gonna spend a lot of time enjoying ourselves. 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R Rudolph was born in Germany on november ninth, nineteen oh six, and he and Werner von Braun later became colleagues at Pinamunde After the Allies bombed Pinamunda, Rudolph became the operations director and the deputy production manager at the undernderground Middlevurk facility In the prior episode on Operation Paperclip, we talked about the criteria for determining who was a so called ardent Nazi, because ardent Nazis were supposed to be kept out of the program. An ardent Nazi was generally defined as someone who had joined the Nazi Party before Hitler had declared himself fhure. who is a leader in the party or in one of its affiliated organizations like the SS or the SA. who had been convicted in a post war denotification court or who had been accused or convicted of war crimes So Rudolph joined the Nazi Party, also known as the National Socialist German Workers Party and then abbreviated in German as NSDAP In nineteen thirty one That was six years before Werner von Braun joined and three years before Hitler declared himself furer In the early nineteen thirties, he had also been in the SA Reserve and in other Nazi connected organizations When Rudolph was first screened for potential inclusion in Operation Paperclip His interrogator made this notation. one hundred percent Nazi, that's in all capps Dangerous type, security threat exclamation points suuggest internment But in spite of that rather vehement initial assessment, when the Office of Military Government United States filed its report on Rudolph, concluded that he was not an ardent Nazi. When Rudolph was interrogated as part of this process, he gave his reasons for joining the Nazi Party this way.Quote, Until nineteen thirty, I sympathized with the Social Democratic Party and voted for it and was a member of a social Democratic union After nineteen thirty, the economical situation became so serious that it appeared to me to be headed for a catastrophe. I really became unemployed in nineteen thirty two The great amount of unemployment caused the expansion of the national socialist and Communistic parties. Frightened that the latter would become the government, I joined the NSDAP, a legally regulated society to help. I believed in the preservation of the Western culture. The US. Army okayayed a slightly edited version of this statement to release to the public. which ended, quote During the last few years, political developments became more and more serious, but I could not foresee this result when I entered the party Thisis was one of the first German specialists to enter the US under Operation Paperclip. He arrived in nineteen forty five And his wife and his daughter followed him later. Vern V von Brown, he started out working for the Ordinance department of the Research and Development Division under the Department of the Army At various points, the FBI investigated him as part of his applications for security clearance and his application to work at NASA. In the reports from these investigations, he's generally described as an excellent production engineer personersally liked by his colleagues consonscientious, honest, trustworthy, and not a potential threat to national security However During an investigation in nineteen fifty three, someone reported that he had been a loyal member of the NSDAP and was quote type of person who would not stop at anything if it might further his ambitions He had a reputation of being a person who, in his enthusiasm for the Nazi regime, could be dangerous to a fellow employee who did not guard his language person that gave that statement whose name is redacted from the FBI file that's available on the web, later walked that statement back and said that they didn't mean to imply that Rudolph was an ardent Nazi he was ambitious and would do whatever it took to achieve his goals So Rudolph became a US citizen on november eleventh, nineteen fifty four His work at NASA included being one of the primary architects of the Saturn F rocket He retired from NASA in nineteen sixty nine and from there, he became a consultant. He had received NASA's Distinguished Service Award, which is the agency's highest honor as well as other awards As we discussed in the previous episode, the Office of Special Investigations started an investigation into Rudolph after Eli Rosenbaum found references to him in a couple of books he picked up at a bookstore in nineteen eighty This investigation found that officials in both the US and West Germany had described Rudolph as a war criminal Rudolph was also questioned in nineteen forty seven, as officials were preparing to try nineteen people who were suspected of war crimes at the Dora Nordhausen complex During that questioning, Rudolph said he had attended the public mass hanging that we described earlier as operations director at Middlevg He had also personally received reports about how many prisoners were available to work. How many had recently arrived and how many had died or were too ill to work His office was also right next to where the public hanging took place. Rudolph maintained his innocence in all of this But at the same time, according to transcripts of OSI interviews, he confirmed that he knew that prisoners were dying at the facility There was also a clear paper trail connecting him to the use of enslaved labor and prisoner abuses at Middlevurg He ultimately agreed to renounce his U. S. citizenship and return to Germany rather than face a trial for all of this time he was seventy seven The West German government wasn't really pleased about this since U. S. officials took this step without informing them ahead of time. West German authorities started their own investigation But by that point, the only thing that was still within the statute of limitations was murder. And there wasn't enough evidence to try Rudolph on that specific charge Rudolph spent most of the rest of his life trying to clear his name and to return to North America even though he had agreed to leave After US officials denied his request to have his citizenship restored, he tried to enter Canada, but was denied there as well During his hearing with Canadian authorities, Canadian lawyers produced a memo that he had written describing the use of slave labor at another facility in an admiring way and requesting such a setup for his own project A Canadian court ruled that he had quote called for, made use of, and directed The enslaved laborers at Middlevurk Rudolph never returned to North America and he died in nineteen ninety six Some of the documentation and statements related to Arthur Rudolph's work in Nazi Germany It came to light as part of an investigation into one of his and Von Brown's colleagues, George Rickai, director genereneral at Middlevurg Riai's background was a lot like Rudolph's. He had joined the Nazi Party in nineteen thirty one and went to work for the Reich Ministry for Armament and Munitions Rki had become an expert in underground construction design the underground V two factory at Middelwurk and Hitler's underground bunker as well as other facilities To be very clear though, that underground Middlewk facility had virtually no ventilation and no plumbing People used oil barrels as toilets, and for most of the facilities's operation, the prisoners were sleeping on the ground. so we're not saying this design was good or humane. Underground construction like this had become his specialty He specialized in being horrible Um While Rudolph had been aware of how much forced labor was available for use at the facility and had received reports on how many people had died Riai was the person who directly oversaw that labor He coordinated with the SS to essentially rent people from camps At Middelwg, the rate the SS charged was two to three Reichsmarks per person per day As was the case with Von Brown and Rudolph, Rookae's work on the V two program made him an attractive candidate for operation paperclip Even though by his party membership status alone, he fit the definition of an ardent Nazi like like Rudolph he had joined the party way before Hitler had come to power He arrived in the US in nineteen forty five though, and started working for the US Strategic Bombing Survey and the US Army Air Forces However In the summer of nineteen forty six, Rick High and paperclipper Albert Patton started a black market operation at Wright Field, where about one hundred and forty of the two hundred plus paperclippers in the US were then working Aircraft engineer Herman Nelson seems to have gotten into a personal dispute with them One night, when Rick Hi and Patton were playing a late night poker game in their housing facility, which was known as Hilltop Nelson got frustrated with their noisiness and told them to keep it down Patton and Rick Hi refused, and Rick Hi made an offensive joke that alluded to Nazi atrocities against Jewish people In response, Nelson filed a complaint with Colonel Donald L. Putt, saying that Patton was an ardent Nazi and an SA member, and that Rick Eye had orchestrated the mass hanging at Middlewk that was meant to deter sabotage. Putt doesn't seem to have taken any action on this, but Nelson also vented his frustrations in a letter to a friend in New York And that caught the eye of the censors who were reading the paper cllippers' mail This sparked an investigation, during which it became clear that many paper clliippers were willing to cover up one another's involvement in Nazi activities and war crimes. At around the same time, investigators in Germany found Rkhey's name on an employee contact list at Midelberurg An investigator in Germany also spotted Rikai's name in an article about his application for U. S. citizenship So all of this came together, and Rki was indicted and returned to Germany to stand trial at the U. S. led war crimes trials that were held at the site of the Daku concentration camp These were separate from the international trials that were held at Nuremberg When Rickaye was indicted, he had just signed a new five year contract to work with the Amy. Rickai became one of nineteen defendants in the Dora Nordhausen trial that was held at Daku Of those nineteen, Rick Hi was the only one who had worked at the Midelvg facility rather than at the concentration camps themselves the evidence that was presented at his trial was contradictory. Although some witnesses connected him to war crimes at the facility, there were other researchers, including Werner von Braun, who submitted affidavits in his defense There wasn't clear written documentation to connect Rkai to war crimes carried out at the facility Rick Hi was one of four people who were acquitted, and the Amy then classified the records from the trial We will talk about one more paper cllipper after another quick sponsor break. Living with a rare autoimmune condition can bring a lot of uncertainty, but it can also bring people together in powerful ways. Tune in for season six of Untold stories, Life withith a severe autoimmune condition, a Ruby Studio production in partartnership with Argenics. This season, host Martine Hackett brings you fresh stories from people living with MG and CIDP and expands the conversation to people living with other rare conditions, like myositis and IGAM Through their stories, you'll learn what it's like to participate in clinical trials seeking new treatments, how connection fuels hope, and how people can support one another along the way. Because living with a rare disease isn't about getting through it, it's about moving forward together. Listen to Untold stories, life with a severe autoimmune condition on the iHart radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts Guess who's back in the house The Old gays return for season two of Silver Linings, their hit podcast from IiHarts Ruby Studio in partnership with Viv Healthcare. Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert, McBill, and Jessse have in store this time around. They strut back down memory lane, navigating life Love, loss, and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kinds of insights that can only come from experience. So listen to your elders, honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you All saass, zero filter, and decades of perspective from four friends, proving that queer joy only gets better with age on the podcast that never gets old. Listen to silver Linings available on the iHart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Alrighty, there is excited and then there is vacation excited. and we are vacation excited right now because we have a trip planned to Baha Mar in Nassau. To be honest, I'm kind of mentally already checked in and I have a beautiful drink in my hand. What I love about this is that you can do it your way. There are three luxury hotels all in one place, the Refined Rosewood, the playfully hip SLS, or the stylish Grand Hyatt. So no matter what your vibe is, if it's relaxed, if it's glam, if it's kind of somewhere between You're covered and then there is everything else. This is like an embarrassment of options. There are more than forty five restaurants, bars and lounges, incredible chefs, incredible drinks. I'm going be all over that. There is a lot of great nightlife that you can get into like the John Baptiste Jazz Club, which I am also very excited about. If you are a family going to visit, there's a fifteen acre water park. and what I am also excited about shark and sea turtle encounters