Declassification and Modern Accountability

This is an IiHart podcast Guaranteed human. Living with a rare autoimmune condition brings uncertainty, but it can also create community. In season six of Untold Stories, Life with a severe autoimmune coondition, they go beyond MG and CIDP, as host Martine Hackett welcomes stories from other conditions like myositis and IGN into the conversation. Untold Stories is produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenics. Listen to Untold Stories, Life with a severe Autoimmune condition on the iHart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts Hey everybody, we are getting ready to go on a trip. We're not packed yet, but our brains definitely are because we have a trip to Bajamar on the horizon. and it's kind of all I can think about. I'm so excited about the food. There are amazing restaurants and lounges there that I'm gonna sample everything I possibly can. I'm going to gaze into the water and mostly I am gonna watch the daily fllamingo parade which might be the thing I'm most excited about. There's also an incredible spa and I know Tracy's going to be taking advantage of that. There is excited and then there is Bahamar excited. Start planning at bahamar. com The oldld gazays are back with Silver Linings, their lovable podcast from Iiheart's Ruby Studio in partnership with VV Healthcare. Robert, Mick, Bill, and Jessse strut back down meemmory Lane for season two, sharing lessons on life, love, and loss. These are the kind of insights that only come from experience. So tune in to Silver Linings with the oldld Gazays on the Iiheart Radio app Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Alienware's backack to schoolchool event is the perfect time to score top gaming gear with incredible features and advanced engineering to go beyond performance. 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Talk to your doctor. callall one eight hundred five four five five nine sevven nine or visit zbound. liily d. com Happy Saturday, eighty one years ago today on june twentieth, nineteen forty five The U. S. Secretary of State approved Wernner von Brown and other German rocket scientists to enter the United States under a program called Operation Paperclip This was a secret program to bring German scientists, engineers, and other specialists to the United States to live and work, including ones who had deep ties to the Nazi Party and war crimes Our episode on Operation Paperclip came out on may twenty fourth, twenty twenty one, and it is today's Saturday Classic Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHart Radio Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson, and I'm Holly Fry. Today we are going to talk about Operation Paperclip, which is also known as Pject Paperclip. And this was the US effort to bring German scientists to the United States after World War two, and to be clear, the US was definitely not the only Allied nation doing this As examples, the UK and France and the Soviet Union all had their own programs to try to exploit German scientific and engineering knowledge after the war But in most cases Those other programs involved specialists and researchers who were either working in occupied Germany orr they were sent back to Germany after a few years of supervised work in another country But for the United States program A lot of the people who were part of it ultimately became permanent residents or citizens of the US And this included people who were ardent Nazis or who had committed war crimes. time the rocket scientists are the ones who get the most discussion around this program today. So people like Werner von Braun, who developed ballistic missiles for the U. S. Army before joining the space program at NASA The paper cllippers really came from a wide range of scientific and engineering specialties, including flight medicine and chemical warfare and aeronautics They worked in military and in civilian roles. It was like every layer of American industry and the military industrial complex When I started on this episode, my intent was that today we were going to talk about context for this program and its precursor, which was called Operation oververcast And then the program itself and some of the most prominent and notorious people who were part of it That turned out to be too much for one episode which People listening to me list all those things off may not be that surprised by This episode is going to whack through the arc of this program's creation and its existence. and we'll have more about some of the specific scientists and engineers and other specialties in another episode sometime soon posossibly the next episode But since it's not written yet, I don't want to promise anything. This is one of those things that became clear at like three o'clock yesterday afternoon that this could not all be one episode So that means that while there will be some references to some Nazi atrocities during World War two and the general era of the nineteen thirties and forties There's there's not as much detail about the specifics in this particular episode. It is something that will be discussed more in a future episode about the researchers themselves. So to establish a bit of background on this subject, in June of nineteen forty two, Adolf Hitler issued the Deree of the Fuhr on the Reich Research Council. It read in part, quote, The necessity to expand all available forces to highest efficiency in the interest of the state requires, not only in peacetime, but also and especially in wartime concentrated effort of scientific research and its channelization toward the goal to be aspired. then went on to say Leading men of science above all are to make research fruitful for warfare by working together in their special fields In nineteen forty four, he issued another decree and this one called for the development of weapons and equipment that had, quote Revolutionary new characteristics ese would put Germany ahead of its enemies. Nazi propaganda framed these new weapons and equipment as Wuerwaffe or wonder weapons. Also, in nineteen forty four, Germany introduced the Rocket power Meserschmittt ME one hundred sixty three which was the world's first rocket powered fighter the Mesers Schmidt Ey two hundred sixty two, which was the world's first operational jet fighter. The V one flying bomb which was the world's first cruise missile and the V two Rcket, which was the world's first ballistic missile. So a lot of wartime firsts there And it has been widely repeated that if these technologies had been introduced just a few months earlier in the war The Axcess powers might well have won And there's some debate over whether that's really true. But Allied military officials definitely saw all of this and any other innovations that Germany might have had in the works is a huge threat There were concerns that Germany's ultimate goal for the V two rocket was for it to carry a nuclear payload and concerns that it was sharing its secrets and technologies with Japan. So the Allied powers made it a priority to try to capture as much German research and technology as possible, both to replicate it for themselves and to try to develop countermeasures Especially after the D D invasion started on june sixth, nineteen forty four, teams really searched for German research facilities and weapons factories. copied blueprints and technical materials, they questioned scientists and confiscated weapons and technology This included disassembling and removing Big pieces of equipment, like V two rockets and wind tunnels and aircraft This process really accelerated in the last months of the war The UK and the US. formed the Combined Intelligence Objective Subcommittee to coordinate a huge sweep for German military secrets and equipment This really escalated after Hitler issued the destructive meeasures on Reich Territory decree, also known as the Nero decree That happened on march nineteenth, nineteen forty five And this decree called for the destruction of anything that could be used by enemies of Germany British and American units became increasingly competitive as they tried to capture resources before Germany could destroy them, and before Soviet forces who had similar objectives could move into an area Yeah, in some cases, it was literally an area that the Soviets were supposed to be occupying British or American forces or both together would be like we' got to get as much of this stuff ourselves as possible before they get here was happening, military officials also started to shift their focus a little bit because no matter how many blueprints or technical manuals or formulas or actual pieces of technology they managed to secure, And no matter how many specialists they interviewed, that still wouldn't be the same as having ongoing access to the minds behind all of this stuff So the Combined Intelligence Objectives sububcommittee started developing lists of people to target and bring in for more long term work Initially, there was a blacklist of targets of military value and a gray list of targets of quote vital post war interest But those people were not of immediate military value ftten though these lists are kind of lumped together as just the blacklist One source for the names on these lists was a document prepared by senior Gestapo officer Werner Osenberg who supervised the planning offffice of the Reich Research Council He had compiled a list of about fifteen thousand names, part of which was discovered in an unflushed toilet in March of nineteen forty five. When Osenberg himself was captured, he surrendered the entire list, along with documents that detailed the qualifications of the people on that list and other documents related to the German war effort. The U. S. Army established the Field Information Agency Technical, or Fiat to help it exploit German knowledge and resources. includluding finding and capturing people from this list And the term exploit comes up over and over in descriptions of this whole phase of the project Allied militaries and governments were increasingly interpreting all of this as a form of German reparations for the war. And German scientists, engineers, technicians, and researchers were all resources to exploit as part of those reparations The Supreme headadquarters Allied Epeditionary Force had established internment camps for scientists and engineers in Germany and in formerly German occupied territory. Some of these camps housed hundreds of people And beyond interrogating them about their work and getting to interpret and explain technical documents, at first, officials weren't quite sure what to do with them Simply letting people go after they'd been interrogated wasn't really an option The people who had developed the aircraft, bombs, and chemical and biological weapons for the Third Reich still presented a threat And then on top of that, the Potsdam agreement, which was signed in August of nineteen forty five, called for the quote complete disarmament and demilitarization of Germany and the elimination or control of all German industry that could be used for military production that for a lot of these specialists, the industries that they had been working in, as well as other related industries where they might have been able to find jobs This just would not exist anymore. So it wasn't like they could interrogate someone, release them, keep tabs on them to make sure they were you know not doing anything dangerous while they went to some job they had gotten because those industries they would have worked in no longer were to exist Whough the US. and the UK were allies and the Combined Intelligence Objective Subcommittee had been established as a joint effort between the two nations Over time, they became increasingly competitive For example, on april thirteenth, nineteen forty five, Colonel Donald L. Putt was led to the Hermann Gering Aeronautical Research Center at Vulcan Road, which had been camouflaged under trees. This secret facility was in an area that was supposed to be under British control So American forces worked as quickly as possible to secure as much as they could before the British arrived And this kind of stuff led to various C stepping basically fromom a military perspective and then the United States having to like work with Britain to say, okay We took all these V two rockets that you were supposed to get access to. so we will work with you to figure out how they work and to launch them so you can see how they work All of this was specifically focused on trying to secure information and weapons that could be useful in the war in the Pacific, which was still ongoing. On april twenty second, nineteen forty five, the U.S. Army Air Forceces Intelligence Service launched Operation Lusty, which stood for Luftwaffe's secret teechnology And that was to secure technical and scientific intelligence that could be used in the war against Japan. The US. started copying German munitions that had been used against Britain during the Bitz By the time Germany surrendered on may eighth of nineteen forty five, the US had captured most of Germany's most respected aircraft engineers Two days later, Allied forces intercepted the German submarine U eight hundred and fifty eight, which surrendered in Delaware on may fourteenth It was carrying civilian engineers to Japan, along with advanced weaponry and supplies, including an entire disassembled aircraft Among its cargo were tw thousand twove hundred pounds of uranium oxide. This was most likely meant to be used for aircraft fuel, but it raised fears of the possibility of nuclear weapons development So this made the ongoing exploitation of German researchers more urgent And official started to question whether some of this work might be done more effectively in the United States Although it was generally agreed that exploiting German researchers in Germany was vital and was generally ethical The idea of bringing people into the US was a lot more controversial On may twenty eighth, under Secretary of War Robert Patterson wrote a letter to Admiral William D. Leahy, which read in part, quote I strongly favor doing everything possible to utilize fully in the prosecution of the war against Japan all information that can be obtained from Germany or any other source These men are enemies, and it must be assumed they are capable of sabotaging our war efforts brringing them to this country raises delicate questions, including the strong resentment of the American public who might misunderstand the purpose bringing them here and the treatment accorded them But the idea of military necessity ultimately won out over these and other concerns. After this letter, the War Department General Staff held a meeting at the Pentagon to develop a plan to give some German researchers, specifically ones who were not Nazis or war criminals, temporary contracts to work in the United States under protective military custody. We will talk more about that after a sponsor break Living with a rare autoimmune condition can bring a lot of uncertainty, but it can also bring people together in powerful ways. Tune in for season six of Untold Stories, Life with a severe autoimmune condition, a Ruby Studio production in partartnership with Arenics. This season, host Martine Hackett brings you fresh stories from people living with MG and CIDP and expands the conversation to people living with other rare conditions, like myositis and IgAM Through their stories, you'll learn what it's like to participate in clinical trials seeking new treatments, how connection fuels hope, and how people can support one another along the way. Because living with a rare disease isn't about getting through it, it's about moving forward together. Listen to untold stories, life with a severe autoimmune condition on the IiHart radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts Alrighty, there is excited and then there is vacation excited. and we are vacation excited right now because we have a trip planned to Baha Mar in Nassau. To be honest, I'm kind of mentally already checked in and I have a beautiful drink in my hand What I love about this is that you can do it your way. There are three luxury hotels all in one place, the Reined Rosewood, the playfully hip SLS, or the stylish Grand Hyatt. So no matter what your vibe is, if it's relaxed, if it's glam, if it's kind of somewhere in between, you're covered. and then there is everything else. This is like an embarrassment of options. There are more than forty five restaurants, bars and lounges Incredible chefs, incredible drinks. I'm going to be all over that. There is a lot of great nightlife that you can get into like the John Baptiste Jazz Club, which I am also very excited about. If you are a family going to visit, there's a fifteen acre water park and what I am also excited about shark and sea turtle encounters, bring them on and don't even get me started about the daily fllamingo parade If you're into sporty stuff, all there. There is a golf course, tennis, pickleball, anything you can think of. Tracy's gonna spend a lot of time at the spa and we are gonna spend a lot of time enjoying ourselves. There's excited and then there is Baha Mar vacation exxcited. Start planning your perfect getaway at bahamar d. comot So you're considering getting a home security system, but you want something that fits your space? Well, with ADT Blue, it's easy to customize a system that's right for you and set it up yourself. Just pick the kit and monitoring plan that makes sense for your home. Let's say you're worried about package theft. 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Just wait until you hear what hosts Robert, McBill, and Jessse have in store this time around. They strut back down memory lane, navigating life loveo, loss, and everything that shaped them along the way. And as usual, someone just might break into song. From leather bars to bathhouses, dance floors to drag brunch, nothing stays off limits. These are the kinds of insights that can only come from experience. So listen to your elders, honey, and discover the silver linings you can take with you All saass, zero filter, and decades of perspective from four friends, proving that queer joy only gets better with age on the podcast that never gets old. Listen to Silver Linings available on the iHart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts Ten more minutes. Only ten minutes. Can you drive slower? What's up with them today? Lingo kids. That app we downloaded last week? They love it. The games this funny baby bot character kids were' alost there With more than four thousand interactive games, songs, and shows little ones can't get enough of, Lingo Kids is the number one entertainment platform for young kids. Why didn't we download this sooner Everything kids love. Download it for free The first project to bring German scientists to the US to work under a temporary contract was called project Ocast And it was launched on july twentieth, nineteen forty five Under this program, German specialists and researchers would be brought to the U.S. where they would temporarily work under military supervision before eventually returning to Germany. Each person assigned a contract was supposed to undergo a background check to confirm that they were not an ardent Nazi Like the word exploit, that phrase ardent Nazi is a term that comes up a lot in documents about Operation Paperclip and its related programs Officials recognized that under Adolf Hitler, Germany had been a single party dictatorship. and that at least some involvement with Naziism was essentially mandatory for non Jewish Germans The researchers who the US saw as the most skilled and important were, of course, seen the same way by the Nazis. So in many cases, they had been targeted for leadership roles and rewarded with honors and awards that were bestowed by the party Some people who joined the party also did so out of a sense of self preservation or even opportunism So with all this in mind, the general conclusion among American military authorities was that it was just not feasible to restrict anyone who had any connection at all to the Nazi Party That would leave them with no researchers to exploit Instead, the focus was on banning ardent Nazis and ardent Nazis were described as people who had joined the Nazi Party before Hitler declared himself Furer peopleople who were leaders in the party or in one of its affiliated organizations like the SS or the SA People who had been convicted in a post war denotification court or people who had been accused or convicted of war crimes This process involved interviews, examining people's records, and confirming that they were not on the Central Registry of war criminals and security suspects That's also known as the Ccast list This list was described as, quote, an unwieldy monster archive. It was often vague. It was full of undocumented allegations. There was a lot of hearsay. But in terms of the people conducting these background checks, it became a useful checkoff to say, this person was not a suspected war criminal. program, Operation overcast grew really quickly It expanded to include a huge assortment of government and military programs and their associated acronyms There were a lot of every book that I read on this had just a list of acronyms at the beginning and what they all stood for The Joint intntelligence obbjective agency that is abbreviated JIOA and usually said Joah was created as part of the Joint Chiefs of staff during this expansion. And this agency directed this whole operation and brought about sixteen hundred German and Austrian scientists, engineers, and researchers to the US between nineteen forty five and nineteen seventy The Office of Strategic Services and the Joint Intelligence Committee were involved in this as well Japan formally surrendered on september second, nineteen forty five But even though that ended the war, the effort to bring German scientists to the US. continued By January of nineteen forty six, one hundred and sixty German specialists had been brought to the United States. one hundred and fifteen of them were rocket specialists, including Werner von Brun And the program got bigger and broader from there As relations between the US and the USSR devolved into the Cold War, the idea of keeping the other side from getting access to German researchers and technology became more and more important to both nations. The United States started to see an eventual armed conflict with the Soviet Union as inevitable Advances in Soviet nuclear research led to fears that the Soviets had been getting aid from German scientists on this, although it later turned out that they were really getting stolen American nuclear secrets. On january third of nineteen forty six, the MEerC report detailing biological warfare research in Japan became public, and that led for calls For more research into biological agents and their countermeasures, in the United States was yet another specialty of these German researchers In March of nineteen forty six, Pject Overcast expanded It shifted from a limited number of people with temporary contracts working under military supervision to between eight hundred and one thousand specialists who would be offered long term residency in the US and even citizenship Since this was no longer intended as a temporary assignment The researchers' families would be permitted to enter the U. S permanently as well This was a whole process where Germany was being denoxified People with Nazi ties were being pulled out of leadership positions in all of these different industries in all of these different contexts Some of the same people were being brought to the United States and offered U. S. citizenship So by this point, some of the scientists' families who were being housed at a camp in Germany had started calling that camp camp overcast. and that prompted this project's name change to operation paperclip. or project paper clip, depending on u the source that you're looking at That name came from the paperclips that were used to discreetly flag the files of candidates whose backgrounds were potentially too damning for them to be allowed into the United States In August, Secretary of State Dean Atchison sent a top secret memo to President Harry Truman requesting his approval of the interim exploitation of German and Austrian specialists under Project Paperclip The document Truman approved included the text of State War Navy Coordinating Committee Dcument two se slash twenty two, which outlined a revised version for the expanded Paperclip program that had been launched in March. This read in part, quote, Persons proposed to be brought to the US hereunder shall be screened by the commanding general, US FET on the basis of available records No person found by the commanding general, UST, to have been a member of the Nazi Party and more than a nominal participant in its activities. O an active supporter of Nazism or militarism shall be brought to the US hereunder However, neither position nor honors awarded a specialist under the Nazi regime solely on account of his scientific or technical ability will in themselves be considered sufficient to disqualify a specialist for evacuation to the U. S hereunder Where there is doubt as to the qualification of a specialist under the preceding sentence, the commanding general USET may transport the specialist to the U S where further interrogation and screening shall be conducted immediately in order to determine such qualification Before October of nineteen forty six, the State Department had been pre approving project paperclip candidates before they left Europe the process shifted so that the immmigration and Naturalization Service Commissioner handled them in the U. S This dropped the State Department preclearance requirement, which was required by law Oocccupied Germany, the Office of Military Government US kept security dossiers on all of the candidates but also withheld the most damaging information on many high profile candidates. Documents that were declassified in the nineteen seventies and afterward revealed that reports on individual candidates were revised to basically whitewash their backgrounds. Yeah, some of these revisions were really dramatic that sort of went from, you know, draft one, the first thing in somebody's file being like, this person is a dangerous Nazi And then later on being like, this person had no more than a nominal involvement in the Nazi partarty So Even though this whole project had started with a lot of assurances that it absolutely would not involve ardent Nazis. In the end, paper cllippers included people who had worked directly with Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, and Hermann Guring Some had been officers in the Nazi Party or in the SS or the SA. Some stood trial at Nuremberg or faced other war crimes trials In some cases, people's backgrounds were so egregious that they were giving contracts to work for the US military, but they did that work while still living in Germany But in other cases, people with pretty similar backgrounds still made their way to the US Of course, this whole program was classified Just as this shift was happening from temporary contracts to American citizenship The American public was becoming more aware of what was going on This started thanks to news reports that originated from Russian language newspapers being printed in Germany Soon, publications like the New York Times and Newswek were reporting on German researchers, some of them Nazis, being brought to the US and offered citizenship. The warar Department tried to respond to all this with its own favorable propaganda about the program whole idea of like, no we're only bringing the good Germans here. interviews with handpicked scientists who were doing relatively neutral and wholesome seeming work. Of course, this all had to totally sidestep the fact that many paper cllippers had been Nazis, and even if they had not been ardent Their work during the war had still contributed to or at the absolute very least, been complicit in the German war effort This work had been involved in the deaths of Allied personnel and the widespread atrocities of the Holocaust There had been critics of this program within the government and the military from the beginning. For example, Samuel Klus was an attorney with the State Department and had been chosen to represent the State Department with Joah. He had argued strongly against the program since he first became involved, pointing out that the United States was giving Nazis the chance for American citizenship while denying that chance to refugees and displaced persons who had been persecuted and harmed by the Nazi regime Thanks in part to Klaus's role, the relationship between the State Department and the military became incredibly adversarial during this program and he wound up being targeted during the Red Scare Yeah, he, u He made a lot of incredibly strident criticisms of all of this. He was eventually moved off the project aside from his well argued criticisms of all of us. He apparently was also kind of a tricky person to work with and rubbed a lot of people the wrong way in this and many other contexts. So He seems like kind of a tangle Um After these reports though, there was a lot of vocal criticism of this program from the public as well On december thirtieth, nineteen forty six, the Council Aainst Intolerance in America sent a telegram to President Truman, which read, quote As American citizens permit us to express our profound concern over reports that Nazi scientists have not only been brought to this country by the United States Army for research projects famamilies are to follow them they may be permitted to remain here permanently. We hold these individuals to be potentially dangerous carriers of racial and religious hatred. Their former eminenceces Nazi partarty members and supporters raises the issue of their fitness to become American citizens or hold key positions in American industrial, scientific, and educational institutions If it is deemed imperative to utilize these individuals in this country, we earnestly petition you to make sure they will not be granted permanent residence or citizenship in the United States. with the opportunity which that would afford of inculcating these anti democratic doctrines which seek to undermine and destroy our national unity This telegram was signed by about forty people, including Albert Einstein, A. Philip Randolph, and Rabbi B. Benedict Glazer Eleanor Roosevelt and Albert Einstein worked together to vocally oppose the program Other organizations that spoke out against it included the NAACP, the Society for the Prevention of World War III, and the Federation of American Scientists, whose statement described the program as quote an affront to the people of all countries who so recently fought beside us, to the refugees whose lives were shattered by Naziism to our unfortunate scientific colleagues of former occupied lands and to all of those others who suffered under the yoke these men helped to forge from their operation Paperclip continued to make some pretty astounding headlines that were Honestly pretty embarrassing to the authorities who were behind it talk about some of these things more in this comoming not yet written episode of the show On march ninth of nineteen forty seven, Drew Pearson wrote an article for the New York Times that alleged that Carl Crouch had been offered a paperclip contract while incarcerated at Nuremberg, where he was awaiting a trial for war crimes. Crouch was ultimately convicted of enslavement and crimes against humanity Project paperclip wrapped up in September of nineteen forty seven But German scientists were still brought into the US after that point. We're going to talk more about that after a sponsor break Living with a rare autoimmune condition can bring a lot of uncertainty, but it can also bring people together in powerful ways. Tune in for seeason six of Untold stories, Life withith a severe autoimmune condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenics. This season, host Martine Hackett brings you fresh stories from people living with MG and CIDP and expands the conversation to people living with other rare conditions, like myositis and IGAN Through their stories, you'll learn what it's like to participate in clinical trials seeking new treatments, how connection fuels hope, and how people can support one another along the way. Because living with a rare disease isn't about getting through it, it's about moving forward together. Listen to Untold stories, life with a severe autoimmune condition on the IiHart radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts Alrighty, there is excited and then there is vacation excited. and we are vacation excited right now because we have a trip planned to Baja Mar in Nassau. To be honest, I'm kind of mentally already checked in and I have a beautiful drink in my hand. What I love about this is that you can do it your way. There are three luxury hotels all in one place, the Reined Rosewood, the playfully hip SLS, or the stylish Grand Hyatt. So no matter what your vibe is, if it's relaxed, if it's glam, if it's kind of somewhere in between You're covered and then there is everything else. This is like an embarrassment of options. There are more than forty five restaurants, bars and lounges, incredible chefs, incredible drinks. I'm going to be all over that. There is a lot of great nightlife that you can get into like the John Baptiste Jazz Club, which I am also very excited about. If you are a family going to visit, there's a fifteen acre water park and what I am also excited about shark and sea turtle encounters