Scientific Discoveries and Paleo Seismology

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I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too. and this is stuff you should know about earthquakes in Alaska. In nineteen sixty four. I'm gonna talk like this. Oh no. restest of the podcast. What do you think? I think that sixty percent of the people just stop listening Well, they are going to be sorry because this is going to be an interesting episode Yeah, this is u, you know, I had no idea how earthquake prone Alaska is was and is until doing this kind of research Oh, I was raised on that knowledge. My family talked about it a lot No comment in Toledo Hey Chuck, I have a question. Will you ask me First time I was ever in an earthquake or ever felt an earthquake When's the first time you ever felt an earthquake yesterday Will you ask me a follow up question Yes what I was reading while I experienced that first earthquake Well, where were you and what were you reading I was reading This article aboutaska the Alaska earthquake of nineteen sixty four and I was at home Wow. I didn't know that you guys felt a trimor There was one in Cuba like a six point eight and I felt it in Central Florida plain as day. Wow. I've I lived in LA for five years and I never felt a single anything Pretty much assumed I would go the rest of my life without feeling an earthquake and no Nope, Cuba had other ideas. Yeah. well, I mean afterfter reading about how like far away, there's some pretty startling stuff in this episode like as far as far away could feel things and like the The upset that it caused like around the world, it's nut A lot of people were upset about this for sure All right, well, we're talking about the Good Friday earthquake of nineteen sixty four in Alaska, which at the time was a The biggest well, the second largest ever in the world that they had recorded at nine point two just behind the nine point five that hit Chile in nineteen sixty Yeah. and Considering the devastation that happened in Alaska and probably only because it happened in Alaska U, it only killed one hundred and thirty one people, which is a lot, but Um I think the earthquake itself in Alaska. how many people fififteen people maybe Yeah, I think there was actually in the whole state something like, u No, no, I'm saying how many people it killed was only Oh, oh, sorry, I thought you werere saying how many people lived in Alaska? No, just like the literal earthquake of people in Alaska. I think it was like ye fifteen or sixteen people. That was it from the actual earthquake. Yeah I wonder why he laugh Yeah, that was why because I thought you were making a joke and I thought it was hilarious. So let's get to it, eh Well, there was one other big thing about this earthquake besides just the massiveness. I mean, nine point five, that is awfully close to as high as you can go on the Richter scale, right? Yeah, nine point two was this one yeah. Nine point two, sorry Chilei was the nine point five. Still, nothing to sneeze at, right Second largest earthquake on record One of the other reasons that it's important or significant is because it basically opened up the door for seismology and our understanding of earthquakes and tsunamis and basically everything we know about those things today kind of kicked off with this nineteen sixty four earthquake because we were able to like go study it. It happened at just the right time in a sense. Yeah, for sure. And this was a megathrust earthquake and as it turns out, the most destructive kind of earthquake the world knows is the megathrust. ten out of the ten of the biggest earthquakes ever recorded have been megathrust and that is where You know, we've talked about this in the earthquakes episode as well as O ones, probably the Japanese tsunami one as well. Sure. But this a megathrust earthquake is what happens when you have two tectonic plates hitting one another. And in the case of the megathrust, the heavier one slides below the lighter one. and that heavier plate just dives into the mantle. It's you know, we talked about subduction a lot. sububduces Right Um yeah, it's subdued by the top one, right? And as it goes further and further in, like the whole Earth's crust gets recycled over incredible spans of time. The problem is what causes a megathrust earthquake is that in some places that subdued plate doesn't go down. It locks with the plate on top when they converge And they just press and press and press and press And then eventually one of them's going to give, it's like a game of chicken or something like that. And when they give it just slips and it slips really quickly and the entire an entire region of Earth suddenly lurches forward like fifty feet And when that happens That's where you get like ten out of the ten powerful earthquakes. That's where they come from. They're all megathrust earthquakes and that's how they're produced. That's right.. The one in sixty four in Alaska was at the Alaska Aleution subduction zone And that's where the plates here in North America slide over the Pacific pllates, is where they meet one another. And I think it runs from the Gulf of Alaska And as we'll see, the epicenter was kind of right there on waterfront almost. Yeah. but it runs along the Gulf of Alaska to Russia's Komchatka Peninsula which is an island in Russia. That's right yeah, it's basically like the worst place to live. But at the time when people were settling along Alaska, Seward and What was the other big city that was affected by this anchorage and then a bunch of other slightly smaller cities They didn't know that the subduction zone existed. It's nothing you can walk up to and point to. This thing exists under the oceans off shore So they didn't know, but they found out in a big way after this earthquake that oh yeah, actually There's a subduction zone. And as a matter of fact, the whole theory of plate tectonics is correct. This was another thing that it proved or showed. Yeah. so, you know, you said that that can happen really quickly. That's kind of what happens with these megathrust earthquakes and why they're so kind of spectacular is the speed at which it happens And then in this case, just like how much was moving. They said that the plates moved, They estimate between thirty to sixty feet kind of all at the same time And that the area that moved This is staggering was five hundred miles by one hundred and twenty five miles suddenly moved sixty feet like in seconds. Yeah, it's just. Yeah, it's hard to believe Right. And so again, like this five hundred by one hundred and twenty five mile chunk, anchorage Valdez sorry, Valdz Uh Seward And a bunch of other towns are like on that chunk of land that suddenly lurched forward. So not only did the land lurch, this earthquake just had all sorts of crazy effects In part because the earthquake itself, nine point two, lasted for like four minutes four minutes of a nine point two earthquake sounds terrifying and crazy destructive Yeah, this was on march twenty seventh of that year At about five thirty six PM is when it kicked off. And, you know, when I talked about like how far reaching it was Here are some like pretty startling examples. There were water level changes registered across every United state state except for Connecticut, Rhode Island and Delaware. And when you see things like a well or a pond sloshing back and forth, like water that doesn't normally move around u is is being moved. There was are called sea waves And those were reported as far away as Australia and South Africa. Yeah Can't you see some little Australian can go p Pands moving ood Australian kid. Yeah, f'ive too Uh, so those what did you call them sish waves? I call them Sich waves. Sish waves. Okaykay, so In the Gulf, the Gulf of Mexico fishing boats sank off Louisiana because those sea waves sloshing back and forth in the Gulf of Mexico was so potent that it swamamped some boats and sank them. In the Gulf of Mexico, which is nowhere near Alaska. Yeah, it swayed the space needle And by the way, you maybe have been reading too much German on the show, because I think it probably would be Sich in German Yeah, something happened. my brain like just ticked into ust enough German that I mispronounce stuff a lot now. Well, I may be wrong too, but because maybe it's a German word, I have no idea. Well, let's spell it for everybody and then the listeners can make up for themselves how to pronounce it. Shall we? I'll take the first letter. You take the second. we'll just alternate like that S E I see and uh uh waves justust want to get the end Yeah, that thing rocked the space needle, which is about a thousand miles away And they did, you know, geological surveys afterward. They showed some parts of the coast were close to forty feet higher than they used to be Other parts were up to eight feet lower than they used to be literally changed the coastline of Alaska. U as much as fifty feet in some parts. And this is like, you know, this is the kind of thing you think of when you think of an earthquake like in a movie, like, you know, train tracks getting curled up and telephone lines snapping like toothpicks and cars being sucked into the earth This is the kind of thing that presents a challenge to the rock Yeah, exactly. On he could save us. Exactly. Unfortunately, he was just a little tike if he was even born at this time. so he couldn't help anybody. One of the things that just fascinates me is that there were entire swaths of forest on the coastline that dropped into the ocean notot like, oh, the land's cving in and all these these trees are like falling over down into the ocean The entire stretch of forest Still standing upright. plunged downward into the ocean and it was covered by the water. It just dropped. And that to me just is Crazy fascinating. I Like anything underwater I find fascinating, but also the idea of that happening like that suddenly is mind boggling to me Anything underwater is fascinating. U Anything that's not supposed to be underwater that is underwater. Okay Have you seen the drowned house Uh, I know So it's like a found footage, but it's actually good found footage. It's an indie film where these scuba divers are exploring this house that was like at the bottom of a reservoir. So it's now underwater. And just that alone is awesome. but the plot's pretty cool too. So I am you're. going deep with your por I mean, you there's just so much bad horror out there that you really have to hunt And I didn't mean that to be a pun, by the way going deep with the horr underwater No Yeah, that German part of me, I'm taking everything quite literally. There's no such thing as anything funny U you know, we're going to talk a lot about the effects of the water because again, some pretty like devastating and remarkable stuff happen I was right. It was only about fifteen people were killed from the actual earthquake. Most of the people died in the tsunamis that followed. Right. There was one big one and a lot of smaller ones. I think the big one reached A wave reached a height of about two hundred feet which is incredible to think about U it, you know, as far south as California, like twelve people died. in California from an earthquake that happened in Alaska. Yeah, it went southward. It also went westward went right past Hawai, all the way to Japan. It had kind of petered out by the time it hit Japan, but I mean, like that's a long way for a single wave to travel. I mean, two hundred feet, that's just nuts, right Yeah. thing is the big wave. It is It's a giant So with a tsunami though, you have a really long time Um You kind of have some warning. afterfter an earthquake, you can expect if you're along the coast that a tsunami iss probably coming. So you can get away from that U The problem was is that all sorts of different towns and communities along the coast got swamped like almost immediately with tsunamis, not two hundred foot tsunamis, but still enough to like wreck an entire town. And that was another thing that kind of the science finally got to the bottom of But in some of these tsunamis, like for example, there's a village called Chineneega And four minutes after the earthquake, got washed away. There were sixty eight people who lived there. twenty three of them died and the only thing that survived as far as their buildings are concerned was the schoolhouse which was built on higher ground a hundred feet above sea level. So like everything else in the town was just gone thanks to a tsunami that hit like lightning fast. Yeah, I've got one for everyone here.. Baldes at Port Baldes but They were, you know, everything kind of along the coastline there was obviously swept into the ocean thirty two people very sadly passed in Valdiz. and ended up. catching on fire, the oil tankers and stuff that were there And then those were brought out to see. So like you talk about a movie like oil tankers on fire in a wave being transported across the ocean Yeah, for sure. And then one of the other problems with Port Valdes was that the town was built on sand and gravel, not bedrock And one of the things about a meegathrust earthquake is it liquefies the soil It turns what seem to be totally solid ground into essentially a liquid and it can swallow stuff up like almost immediately. So huge parts of that town were also swallowed up by the earth all of a sudden, like this is Biblical end times kind of stuff, you know? Yeah. and you know, at the risk of just going on and on, I got one more, I think. And then we can probably take a break. But if you're talking about Anchorage, you know, the biggest city uh, there that got, uh you know, in Alaska at least that got hit U There was a landslide because it also triggered landslides. We should have mentioned that And the entire business district sank about nine feet There were some building collapses to be sure, but others just look kind of like the forest just dropped Like, you know, anywhere from nine to twenty feet below ones that were just on the other side of the street Did you see photos of that Oh yeah, Life Magazine has a I mean, there's a ton of good photos online that are just It kindind of hard to wrap your head around like what you're looking at sometimes. Yeah, it takes a second for sure. I like one of those three DI posters, but with earthquake stuff instead. We did a whole episode on those. We did. and if I remember correctly, that was pretty interesting. Yeah, the magic ing. U You want to take that break you mentioned? Yeah, we'll take a break and talk about sort of what happened after right after this. I turned off news altogether I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything It's the raange bait It feels like it's trying to divide people If we got clear facts, maybe we can calm down a little NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there NBC News, repeporting for America Ns, that's KNIX leeak proof underwear isn't just for one moment, it's for all the everyday moments you didn't realize leak proof underwear could make easier Maybe it's day one of your period. Maybe it's a long travel day, Maybe it's hot outside, you're on the move, and you just want to feel fresh Their leak proof underwear comes in a range of absorbencies, from light to ultra, and helps protect against periods, light leaks, sweat, and everyday surprises. And because they look and feel like real underwear, they're soft, invisible underclothes, and machine washable. No extra hassle, no complicated routine Just dependable protection, you can wash and rewear See why millions have made the switch to leak proof underwear Visit Nx d. com that's knX d. com and use code flow fifteen for fifteen percent off That's knX dot comot codeflow fifteen. These days, it seems like AI agents are just about everywhere you turn, every field and every function, but without identity, you can't trust they'll serve your business, instead of jeopardizing it. Fortunately, OkTA helps you get identity right by securing your AI agents's identities, giving you a single layer of control, a single standard of trust. So whether an AI agent supports a single user or your entire enterprise, with OkTA You'll turn risk into opportunity. Secure every agent, secure any agent. OkA secures AI So four minutes later Um The earthquake stops, but there's still tsunamis, there's fires at sea, even like whole towns have collapsed. like It takes a little while for the dust to finally settle When it does, I think like the next day, Lyndon Johnson, who was president at the time, said, Alaska as a whole is a major disaster area U Remember I said like telephone poles snapped and there were no roads anymore or railroads. That meant that people couldn't communicate with the outside world. So if you had family and friends outside of Alaska And they heard about this earthquake, they couldn't get in touch with you and you couldn't get in touch with them. So it was a very hairy time for a lot of people until they could find out whether their loved ones were alive or not I think the damage is something like three billion dollars in today's dollars. Yeah. whichich again, like this is a state with like a population of I think two hundred fifty thousand people at the time. like it was not populated at all But that's how much damage that earthquake did still Yeah, they had to, you know, I mentioned earlier that it changed the shape of Alaska and its coastline. It was so drastic that they had to kind of redraw the shipping lanes and say like, hey, like you can't go that way anymore because of this And they had to kind of, you know, redraw all of that area U some people were, you know, Alaska strong. so we're not leaving We're going to build on top of where we were. Other people said, you know what? I'm going to go higher. entntire towns were gone and then popped up in other places and Val Dz is a great example because The Army Corps of Engineers came in and said, you know, Josh Clark one day will say that built on a gravel foundation You shouldn't even rebuild there. And there were only about five hundred, you know, plus or minus some. people living there at the time and they said, you got three years to to get out of here. We got a new Valdz for you about four miles away And that's generally what happened. People peopleople left the new town of Valdez, which now has close to four thousand people, And they they burned the rest of what was there down just to make sure that people didn't kind of like set up and squat there It's kind of cool. You can go hike the old Valdes town. There's a intersection still of the two main drags I think like there's the street sign up still And then they have plaque showing what used to be wherear. It looks like a pretty cool hike So Chuck, we talked about how this kind of changed science. I think we should really kind of expand on that because It really changed science, Chuck. Yeah. and you know, this next part, we need to thinkk specifically, I think Livia used a Smithsonian magazine article by Christian Elliot For this part. So big thanks to Christian Elliott for all the hard work And li there A well, of course, in Ly Hllways She's our nor star adal U, But, you know, we've already kind of said it, but I guess more specifically, we should say that you know, at this time in nineteen sixty four, the idea of what we knew about plate tectonics was not, you know entrenched, like people kind of had a good idea of what they thought was going on For a long time, people had been checking out maps. and saying like, hey, I think that this used to be connected right here and maybe things drifted apart, but it was still sort of Um being actively debated at the time. and this really kind of like laid bare like, yeah, this is not a hypothesis anymore I mean, it's crazy to think that Plate Tectonics wasn't accepted until the sixties, but that's exactly how it was. So this was such a massive earthquake. It just presented all sorts of different places where evidence kind of came along that said, okay, explain this, what explains this? what explains that And it turns out that plate Tectonics essentially was the only a theory that fit, you know That explained how the Earth went up here or how it sunk here, or how it moved fifty feet under the sea here U, or why this, you know, u, this town just got swallowed up All of this could be explained by plate tectonics and not the other rival theories I think that the u The other rival theory was that earthquakes were God's will. And plate Titonics just explains it better U This is obviously a goldmine for the US. Geological sururvey. So they got people to Alaska like really quick And, you know, got out all their dooo hickeies and whirlly gigs and meeasuring tape. And we're like, hey, we can really learn a lot from this stuff. You know, people are being taken care of. So now we need to kind of figure out what happens moving forward One of the interesting things they found Some of the stuff gets really, really interesting, I think that popped up, especially tease out the fungus that's coming among us soon. But they looked at those forests that you were talking about that sunk below the ocean U they, you know, filled up with like sediment and seawater and stuff and they were digging around down there trying to just study it and they kept digging And they said, you know what? there's other like below this stuff We're finding older land plants And so this has happened before every you guys U like probably more than several times over the last like thousands or millions of years. and it's going to happen again. Yeah, can't you kind of just see like if you sped it up like a forest just sinking into the sea and then being covered with sediment and a new forest grows on top of it and then sinks in the sea. And if you do it fast enough, that buugs Bunny powerhouse song just starts playing Like it becomes a conveyor belt Yeah, it's just nuts to think about. But that's exactly what they found with that and they found that from the Alaska earthquake and they were like, okay, didn't know that this happened Now that we know this this is a thing, we can start looking for it in other places we think are earthquake prone. and they they started looking around and they found it in other places. As a matter of fact, the big one along the Cascadian subduction zone. threatens California every moment of every day we know about that thanks to the science that they figured out Thankks to the Alaska earthquake of sixty four. birth a new science in paleo seismology, which is I mean that didn't happen every day. We try all the time to birth newew sciences and no one's listened No, but we don't have cool names like paleo seismology or Megathrust and maybe we should rethink things. That's true. Megathrust is. The sexiest science. Yeah It sounds like a Gir album. Oh, it does, actually. Yeah Another thing was that we kind of talked about that we didn't really understand before were tsunamis, tidal waves Of course, we knew about tsunamis and tidal waves. and I guess scientists kind of had a pretty decent grasp on like, okay, an epicenter of a major earthquake out at sea is going to send a tsunami and maybe we can even calculate how long it'll take to get there and all that stuff. They were baffled by why some of these coastal areas were hit by tsunamis within just a couple of minutes of the earthquake. It just did not fit into the understanding of tidal waves at the time Yeah, for sure. So they, you know, did some literal digging and some figurative digging And they came to this was the unique shape of Alaska's coastline at the time. where very jagged and you'd have some deep fjords where glaciers had cut into the land, that would send silt onto the ocean floor And the quake just kind of Stirred all this stuff up like, you know, sand in a glass that had been settled down there for centuries and centuries. and these were basically underwater landslides causeed these waves. So it was U I think a new term was birthed, which was landside landslide tsunami Yeah, it's like dropping something heavy in a bathtub and Puke like that, but It's a little different But the same thing kind of And you man You gott to tell him about the spgus. This I hard to believe This is yours. I'll te it up for you. All right, tee it up There is a mystery with some fungus Get to it Uh, yeah, so u So Cucus, that's pretty easy. Kryptococcus Gati two T' two I's. No, no is Cryptocouccus Gi, Gi. That's right,n't that how you have to say it think so, but you have to go up really high pitched. G got to So this is a microscopic fungus. It can be pretty bad. It can cause fatal infections U But it's like it's native to the tropics. So Alaska iss like, we don't have to worry about that kind of thing. Sure. It grows on rotting wood in the tropics And apparently it survives pretty well in seawater At the turn of the twentieth century, apparently some of this fungus ended up among us And by way of a ballast in the water of a ship that was going on a route from Brazil to Vancouver and off the coast of the Pacific Northwest there Once this stuff was spilled out of that ballast It said, hey, we like the seawater. We're going to adapt and We're here. You don't know we're here yet, but we're going to be here in nineteen sixty four when this tsunami happens and it's going to spread us now farar and wide, right Yeah. I mean, that tsunami took these this stuff that had just been hanging out off the coast that no one even knew was there. Except maybe that ship captain if he was nefarious. that That's right and just spread it inland. This is nineteen sixty four. And now all of a sudden the fungus is like, o, we're in a new habitat, new ecosystem. get to adapting here and it did. It survived that tsunami and started to readapt to life on land but life on land in the the tundra essentially. And so as that stuff started adapting and adapting by the nineties, it was capable of infecting people again. And there was this mysterious outbreak Kakas Gati And could not figure out what the heck was going on because as far as anybody knew, the only place she found that was in the tropics on rotting wood I guess some epidemiologists kind of put two and two together based on the the tsunami. he was like basically the only way you could have taken this stuff and gotten it all over the land is from a tsunami. So He figured that's what happened Yeah, and it's I just I would love to know more about the story of how they traced it to this one ship that went from Brazil to Vancouver, you know Obviously shipping records, but it's still like quite a bit of scientific detective work. Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I'm not sure if he figured that part out too or not, but I know that I was reading in that article by Christian Elliot in Smithsony, who's talking about how the guy figured out how it got onto land at least Pretty cool. All right, so we'll take our final break here and we'll talk about maybe a silver lining that came out of this right after this and turned off news altogether I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything It's the rage bait It feels like it's trying to divide people If we got clear facts, maybe we could calm down a little NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there NBC News repeporting for America Nix, that's KNIX leeak proof underwear isn't just for one moment, it's for all the everyday moments you didn't realize leak proof underwear could make easier Maybe it's day one of your period. Maybe it's a long travel day, Maybe it's hot outside, you're on the move, and you just want to feel fresh Their leak proof underwear comes in a range of absorbencies, from light to ultra, and helps protect against periods, light leaks, sweat, and everyday surprises. And because they look and feel like real underwear, they're soft, invisible underclothes, and machine washable. No extra hassle, no complicated routine Just dependable protection, you can wash and rewear See why millions have made the switch to leak proof underwear Visit Nx d. com that's knX d. com and use code fllow fifteen for fifteen percent off That's knX dot comot codeflow fifteen These days, it seems like AI agents are just about everywhere you turn, every field and every function. But without identity, you can't trust they'll serve your business, instead of jeopardizing it. Fortunately, OkTA helps you get identity right by securing your AI agent's identities, giving you a single layer of control, a single standard of trust. So whether an AI agent supports a single user or your entire enterprise, with OkTA, you'll turn risk into opportunity Secure every agent, secure any agent. Octa secures AI All right, so you know, anytime something like this happens, there is usually a scientific silver lining as far as just learning, you know, about things place, learning how to mayaybe not prevent in the future, but at least get more lead time in the future And then also and most importantly, probably is like how to build and where to build moving forward And the Alaska earthquake taught us not there Not there either. Yeah. not there not there. And it just goes on like that, right? But people were like, no, we want to build there. So one of the things that we learned how to do was to number one, figure out where not to build, but also how to build so that builduildings just didn't immediately collapse and whole towns weren't just swallowed up at the drop of a Richor, you know Yeah, for sure. Alaska as a state, started adopting, you know obviously new building codes And, you know, especially if it was like a big building, if it was like a like a large apartment building which I mean, don't think Alaska has a ton of those, but larger buildings U they are now kind of neck and neck with California for having the strictest building codes And it's worked pretty well. There was another big earthquake in Anchorage in twenty eighteen that entered about one hundred and seventeen people. That was a seven point zero and caused seventy six million dollars in damages, but And you know, stuff got destroyed like roads and stuff to be sure, but no one died. There were no like really serious injuries and a lot of those buildings stayed, you know Uright And so one reason or one way that they develop those building codes and also where to build was that widespread deployment of seismographs, right? I think In the nineteen sixty four earthquake, there were only two seismograph stations in all of Alaska Yeah. And the oldest one had been installed sixty years before. Right after that, they started throwing seismic stations up all over Alaska, around California, in Western Canada U And we started to develop like more and more information. One thing I saw is that the The thing that really got seismographs out there though was the The ar race the nuclear arms race. Oh yeah. We were using seismographs to listen out for other countries secretly testing nukes. and that that's what we were using them for initially. And then people were like,h, let's start actually listening for earthquakes. So by being able to get a lot of information about big and small quakes, how frequent they were where they were epicentered