Fun Facts and Chopstick Phobias

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You can't beat it Terms apply, see optimum d. com for details that I turned off news altogether I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything It's the range bait It feels like it's trying to divide people. If we got clear facts, maybe we can calm down a little NBC News brings you clear reporting Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there NBC News orting for America Hey everybody, Chuck here. We are moving forward through time in the year twenty twenty, the year of COVID. I think we're at sort of ground zero here, everybody, because the date for this episode is march seventeenth And I know that that was right around the time that things shut down because my birthday is march fifteenth And one of my very good friends birthday is march twelfth. And every year we go out on a birthday dinner with our wives and family And I remember being out It might have been like the sixteenth or seventeenth of that year to dinner and us being like should we be out you guys? Like they're starting to say things are getting weird and we're all washing our hands and saying the ABCs and stuff. but this feels like maybe the last dinner we're gonna have for a while. and it was. that was the last dinner out I had for a very long time This episode for march seventeenth, twenty twenty, right when it all shut down is Prety great It's all about chopsticks and it's called chopsticks Greater than forks Welcome to Stuff You should Know, a production of IHart Radio Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W, Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry over there. and this is stuff you should know. All about the song chopsticks. I wonder if you're gonna make a joke about that. Jerry beat me to it. and when she was like, what are we recording today? And I told her she's like the song? T. No's D d Did? Oh, is that chopsticks? Are there two chopsticks? No, I'm just teasing this heart and soul. Oh okay so what I said from bigig, that was chopsticks, right? Totally. Yeah Robert u Robert Lociia? Yeah, man I should have continued trolling and said James Chn Oh wow, that is a very James Chn like role, though, isn't it? Totally. I think he played that role. and like it. in Well, he' was a crime boss in Bottle Rock over. Yeah, sort of Well, not sort of movie. truly We watched misery the other day Still holds up. Oh man. I remember seeing that for the first time in Athens when I was in college So great Kathy Bates can do no wrong She did great, but if you watch James Chonn, he did really well too. like sure. hisis whole kind of trepidacious manner toward her was really well done and not overdone at all. and like he did a great job as well. And he had to lay there in a bed for weeks and weeks and act Yeah, Sounds like a dream. Yeah And if he balked at it, they would attach a catheter to him and make him pee in his own mouth as punishment ittle known fact about that movie. Oh So chopsticks, right We should point out here that in researching this chopsticks and customs and etiqute If we covered all the countries and all that stuff that use chopsticks, we'd be here all day. Yeah. So there's kind of a focus here on Japan Well just hand They seem to be a little the most Um sensitive to transgressions with chopsticks out of all of the Asian cultures, I think. Perhaps. They have the most rules against him at the very least. Yeah, but when you read them, they could all be summed up as just don't be a dumb American Yeah, or don't have any fun whatsoever with your chopsticks is another way to put it. You're like, what's wrong with making them antennas in a restaurant and going, R M me Right. I'm a walrus now. whyy can't I be a walrus? Right U But we are talking Chopsticks, not the song, sorry to disappoint you everybody. but I saw that that song is actually called Chopsticks because it was originally called the celebrated Chop Waltz. Raden by a sixteen year old schoolgirl from England. Seems about right So but we're talking about the the utensils and like when you think chopsticks, obviously you think Asia And you don't think that there was ever anything but chopsticks in the history of Asia. And while chopsticks are actually surprisingly old, I think they go back seven thousand years. I also saw five thousand years I'm going with seven. I think they're they're actually about as ancient as that They weren't like the go to utensil for Asia until this millennium Yeah, the spoon was kind of the go to. Yeah, who knew? The word chop stick They think maybe pigeon English, Chinese pigeon English. meaning chop, chop or quickly You know, this one of these etymologies is's sort of tough to pin down, it looks like That's the English word for it and all of the chopstick using cultures they have their own word. like in Japan, it's Hashi. It's Kuaizi in China. Nice I'm not sure if I said that right at all Um Geo Gark in Korean. All right, not as not as nice. And Doyid Diua in Vietnamese. All right. I'm sorry. half of the world's population. I love that you started strong in Japan though, because you feel pretty confident in your Japanese pronunciations. That's a good way to go. Yes. I have a great tutor That's right So five to seven thousand years ago They were used initially for cooking And we'll get more into the ins and outs of the history, but they're made from twigs, probably And it was M, much later, like you said, that they were table utensils And and it was all very much like prracticality based Yeah, because Initially, they figured out pretty early on these The Chinese from thousand to seven thousand years ago, that's a really bad idea to sick your hand into a pot of boiling water get something out of it, say like a bone or a piece of meat or something like that. It's way better to use a twig and it's even better to use two twigs as if they were kind of a pair of detached tweezers. Sure. That's apparently where they initially started to come into use was during cooking and food preparation, not the actual eating process That's right. There was a big population boom in China at one point Some might say there continues to be so my said. And the resources became a little more scarce. they started cutting their food up into little tiny pieces for reasons of like it helps it to cook faster Um, I wonder I didn't see anything about this, but I wonder if that also just made it more shareable among a larger family? I could see that. That's a great point too. And isn't it fascinating, though, the idea that a population boom led to widespread use of the chopstick It's interesting. And then Confucius also was a vegetarian and noted knife hater He has a quote about knives. The honorable and upright man keeps well away from both the slaughterhouse and the kitchen and he allows no knives on his table And I think that was a little more because a knive was equated with eating meat less than like it's a garbage tool You don't you don't need a knife to eat a plant, basically. Yeah, some might argue you might want to cut a piece of broccoli Maybe, but you don't have to. I just summed up Confucius. That's the level of arrogance that I'm operating at now And I think some of the early and, you know, it started in China and then Pret soon Korea, Vietnam, Japan, we're all using them But I think that Chinese chopsticks We're joined at what they are now. what are they called now if they're joined? and you got to split them apart . Oh Warabashi, That's Japanese. This is the term for disposable chopsticks. Okay, but I thought the Chinese chopsticks were originally joined like that. Yes? No, it was Japanese. Okay. There was this single piece of bamboo that was like split, kindind of like giant tweezers Okay Yeah, I'm reading this now ahead of Sometimes I wait just now reading this? Well no, I get sometimes and it's the dumbest thing, but I get confused between former and latter Oh yeah. It's not that I get confused. I just have to go back and sort of picture it in my brain. It just takes an extra second. I think for everybody. That's right. It's definitely not intuitive, so I don't feel bad. I also thought this thing about food poisoning was interesting U was that in dynastic times in China They would use, and I guess people that are a little more well healed would use silver chopsticks U because they thought that if it came into contact with something that was poisonous then the chopsticks would turn black and they would know not to eat it I mean, it just makes sense. When you're rich and wealthy, more people want to kill you. so it's better to have something that shows if somebody's trying to poison you. like your chopsticks turning a color if you're being poisonous cyanide or something like that.. The Problem is it doesn't actually work And I don't know why they didn't just think that through from the get go, like, oh, well let's get ourselves some cyanide. and stick a silver chopstick in it and see what happens and see that it doesn't work. But apparently it does work presence of garlic. or rotten eggs because they put out hydrogen sulfide. so it will turn silver a different color I don't know how garlic ever made itself into a staple of Chinese cooking, but There we have it. Yeah. and the other thing I thought was interest and we should mention too, this came from a variety of places. Teaggan Jones at Gizmoto, Lisa Brahman from Smithsonian Mag Q Edward Wang from Cambridge Blog Mh. Huff poe, believe it or not, got in the works Yeah and some other places, but I thought that Q Edward Wang's history was really interesting because Um He mentions that Wheat is kind of the first reason before rice, which really surprised me It was very surprising. I think he knew all along that that was the big reveal. You know? Yeah But that's what gave chopsticks a shot in the arm. So first we have Cutting food into smaller pieces to have it cook faster so you use less firewood.ight becauseuse there's a population boom And then as wheat becomes kind of fashionable and widespread U You start to use chopsticks because you're making things like noodles and dumplings. Yeah. And prior to this, millet was the go to grain. A millet's really small, It's much smaller than rice and you certainly aren't going to turn it into like a noodle or a dumpling. You make a gruel out of it. And so for thousandousands of years, the go to utensil that people used to eat with in China was a spoon because they were eating gruel or porridge or whatever. everybody hated life But when wheat came along and they started turning into noodles and dumplings, they said, Ohh yeah, remember those things that we use, those twigs to cook with? What if we made a smaller version of those? to eat with too. And that's where the chopstick got its first like real boost. in usage around Asia. Yeah, I mean, try to eat a big spoonful of noodles and just watch as they flop off and slaying u delicious sauce all over the place There is Literally nothing more frustrating than trying to eat noodles with a spoon in the entire world Yeah. I mean, sure you could them up into tiny little pieces so they rest in your spoon with some broth. ure but who who wants to do that? L the person that cuts up their Bchetti at the table into tiny bits is A six year old Yeah, or just thoroughly un American. True. One of the two. Maybe both. depending on how sophisticated the six year old is. The other thing I thought was interesting too from Mr. Wang's article was he talked about stu, which is gang in Chinese They ate a lot of stew back then and chopsticks would be very useful for picking up things like the more solid objects in the stew, like the vegetables So you've got wheat coming into vogue, you've got smaller pieces, vegetables, stew being eaten, chopsticks are like, come on. We're gonna do it. We've gott to do this. We just need one more thing to get us over the hump and people are gonna to know us everywhere around the world. And that one thing was a particular kind of Vietnamese rice that ripens early apparently. And it's a shorter grain or a medium grain, which means that it's easier to it clumps more easily. also has a lot of like starches to it. So it's just kind of clumpy sticky rice And here in the West, we're not really used to that kind of rice. So we're like, how are you gonna use chopsticks to eat this stuff? Like try eating some uncle bins with chopsticks. You can't do it. It's like trying to eat noodles with a spoon Yeah, or you would just do that move. And this is what I didn't understand when I was growing up because I was a little naive When I saw chopsticks, I would just think about Scooping up the rice on top of them very awkwardly And it wasn't until was a little bit older and had good clumpy Chinese rice. Right. And Japanese rice I was like, oh, it's very easy to eat with chopsticks. Yeah. And you're just like, okay, I've got it.? Becauseuse it sticks together. It's like a nice little morsel of food. And it sticks together just about the right size and it's totally different So when you eat Chinese rice or Japanese rice or even Vietnamese rice, the stickier rice. then you understand, okay, you can use this as as you can use chopsticks for this. And the Chinese figured this out as well. When rice became much more of a staple of the Asian diet And all of a sudden now you didn't need a spoon anymore because everybody's like to heck with Millet. whoo wants gruel? noobody. Yeah. So they threw their spoons out the window U, and then they started just eating chopsticks everything You could use it for everything now. It's all you needed for your meal. Yeah, and that all in one solution, I think was That happened in China and Japan and Vietnam for sure And Korea, I think, was the one standout because I believe in Korea spoon in the chopstick still go hand in hand Yeah, and this I believe it was Q Edward Wang who maybe wrote this, but he basically said it seems to be consonscious decision. Right in Korea. Almost as if they were being Contrary or something like that. Maybe they just want to do their own thing Well they eat a lot of very, very hot stews and soups Have you ever had Bde jig? Uh, I don't think so I'm not even sure I'm saying it correctly. Have you ever been to eat at like HMAR or like an Asian food court or something like that? Sure If you go to a Korean place, they usually have I think it's called Bude jig. It's like hot dog soup, basically. Oh my Lord. And it's like this kind of I'm not even sure. I guess's it's like a chili paste broth Lots of great processed meat in it and like ramen and like jalapenos. It's just so good. But that thing comes to you boiling And you're supposed to like eat the chunky parts out with a chopstick, but I guess it always comes with a spoon too. so I think you're supposed to actually eat the broth with the spoon rather than sip I tell you one thing I do love is the design of the And I'm calling it the Chinese spoon. I don't know if it originated in China, but You know the soup spoon I'm talking about. Yeah, like the one you use for miso soup? Oh man, they're just the best They do they because you can get a really big spoon on there, you know And it's ergonomic. It just it's the way' the way do it unless you're just gonna to pick up the bowl and drink it, which is great too. Yeah the miso soup spoon. All right, let's take a break because I'm so hungry after you said hot dog stew My's stom scowling. And we'll come back and we'll talk more about chopsticks St sure I don't remember what episode it was, Chuck, but do you remember when our stomachs growled in sync with one another? That was very recently It was. Yeah. You can still reminisce about recent. I say, I'm nostalgic for that thing that happened last week. prettyrety much So apparently in this u I'm not sure how accurate this is, but the four main kinds of Chopsticks. Apparently in China, the chopsticks are a little bit longer And a little more blunt on the ends Yeah, and they think that might be a nod to Confucius basically saying like, don't have knives at your table. Don't even have Vaguely sharpened chopsticks even. L nothing stabby Nothing. D't you don't want to be stabbed at your table. I think in Japan, they're a little sharper and a little shorter but you're still not supposed to be stabbing stuff. No Don't stab that piece of tuna No, it's you can just tell if you've ever done that while you're doing it that you're violating some unnatural law or something feels wrong, doesn't it? Yeah Yeah. Let me see here. in Korea, apparently they are shorter as well And they are also blunt, but they can be metallic Yeah, that's one thing that we'll see because we're going to talk about as with everything in existence, there's some horrid environmental impact with chopstick as well. U But the Japanese are like, give us cheap disposable wooden or bamboo chopsticks and basically nothing else. Yeah. They're just crazy for it. Whereas some of the other Asian cultures are like, no we can use reusable ones, but the Japanese are like, no We want nothing but disposable chopsticks that Warabashi. I assume that you and Yumi have your own chop sticks at home Oh yeah And do you bring those to restaurants Oh no No Never do. we should. No I don' never feel should, but I usually think when I'm there I'm like, man, I should have brought my chopsticks. Well, you know, I mean, like if you go to any Asian store, they have like cute little, it looks almost like a pencil case, but it's, you know, chopsticks inside and it's meant for you to carry them around with you. but No one does that. You just don't. even though hopefully in ten years when we're all like, okay, this is out of control and this is really bad, everyone will be doing that. You just don't do it. And yeah, we have some that like I could just put in my jeans pocket and walk around with if I wanted to, but I don't do it. Yeah No one does. I take my straw now And I use it because I now keep it in my purse Your mer My merse, which goes everywhere with me. Yeah. So I need to throw some chopsticks in there Sure And it's a good feeling when you say, no straw. I've got my own. And I would love to be able to say, no, no, you keep those wooden chopsticks thats strong Shove it where the sun don't shine Wow I'm not that aggressive about this. It's so funny, depending on where you are in the country though, like if they bring you a straw and you say no straw, please. They look at you like you're just a straight up Democratic socialist mighty. you know, like you're trying to undermine The government or something like that. it's kind of hilarious Yeah, uh Sure, but other places now are There's a couple of places in my neighborhood who have Um postings on the wall when you walk in talking about the impact of straws and that straws are upon request only Right. And if you got a problem with that, you can take a straw and shove it where the sun doeses shine. Right. or you you take that problem to the voting booth this fall. Right. Exactly So are you prepared? because I have a feeling you do a better job than me at this becauseoy you so often have great convoluted ways of describing visual things? I'm going to do a great job describing it to you because you can watch my hands, but I think for everybody listening, it's going to be very problematic. All right, how do you use chopsticks? All right, I'm going to get you back for this one, Chuck So I did it intuitively, by the way, which is what I suggest I never write a thing. W some I think reading it and having it explain makes it way harder. I agree. I think it's just one of those things you have to watch somebody do in practice I mean, it's just all practice. But essentially there's a couple things to remember is that both chopsticks are laying do you want do you want to go step by step through it? No, I think I want the Josh method Okay Well it's the same it's the same method O the Josh description. Okay. so in the valley between your thumb and your forefinger? Yeah Okay, The webbing right there That's where the chopsicks rest. The thumb tank The thumbsit that showed. Y hand showed. Oh my Godd. Hand showed. G band nameame. It really is Um Wow. so The two chopsticks lay right there Okay, okay One of them, the bottom one is basically meant to be immobile and stationary. Yeah. It just basically stays there. And it's the top one that yourere you're moving, you're kind of holding with your forefinger, your index finger, and your middle finger that's that's what you're using to move this top one. And so it's really the bottom one that stays basically stationary and the top one is the one that's moving and you're just using it to kind of up and tweeze food or rice or whatever with it. If you get really good, you can like pick your friend up with it. Right or catch a fly if you're sensei level. That's right with the chopsticks for sure. But that's essentially it and the you don't want to hold it too tightly. if you're if you're gripping it too tightly or your muscles are too tense Yeah not going to be able to to kind of make that tweezer motion very easily or you're certainly not going to have much control. It's kind of paradoxical that the looser you have your hand to a certain degree, the more control you have over the chopsticks and the tension that you're directing toward the end of the chopstick. So keep your hand loose, but in control And just make sure you remember that the bottom one that's kind of resting all the way along your thumb free is basically stationary and the top one is the one you're directing with your index finger and middle finger. Yeah, I recommend halfway through your meal Let switch those two out because that bottom one is just along for the ride Yeah And it needs to do a little work, you know what I mean? Yeah. So just switch them out and make that one the topper And give it, you know, make it do a little sweat. sweating I think that's pretty good Chunuck. Do a little sweat I think we deserve a peabody award for describing how to use chopsticks No visuals. You did talk about the environmental impact a little bit, but it is a real problem. I mean you see these tiny little things and you think, what's the big whoop? like a tree can probably make a gazillion chopsticks. So they need like two, maybe ten trees in China to make all the chopsticks they need. Do you do you remember that what of just one thing? Do you remember that cartoon It might have been a Simpsons or something like that where they chopp down a tree and they show them processing one single tree into just an individual toothpick. That I'm pretty sure S hadad to be the Simpsons, you know. But imagine if they're like, no we make one chopstick out of just a single tree. I didn't think about toothpicks, man. how many Toothpicks can get out of a tree I don't even know Their problem, they're on the horizon When you think about the fact that China alone produces eighty billion disposable chopsticks every year then you get a little bit more of a sense of exactly how many of these trees and it says here there was I'm trying to find out what year this is. It was fairly recently But they've had like parliamentary meetings and stuff about this in China. and they estimated that It takes about twenty million twenty year old trees to cover their annual rate of production Yeah, a guy named Bai Wain P'ret prettyty sure I said his last name correct. Yeah U he's like a representative from the Lan forestry indndustry group and he really like rocked everybody. at a parliamentary meeting where he basically said, Hey, do you remember that old figure that everybody has been touting for years that we actually use fifty seven billion? chsticks a year produce fifty seven billion chopsticks A year. He said that's way off. It's actually eighty billion. And like you just said, we need twenty million twenty year old trees to meet that. a year Yeah. People said, wow, that's kind of a problem And so around the around the world, like China so of that eighty billion, I think China, half of them stays in China off the other half. Yeah, I wondered about that seventy seven percent goes to Japan And Japan was actually the one that started all this. they came up with disposable chopsticks, Waribashi all the way back in eighteen seventy eight and have just been crazy for them ever since. Yeah. Like you can go to like a pretty high end restaurant in Japan and they're going to have wooden chopsticks that you pullpart chopsticks. Yeah that you would pull apart There are also plenty of restaurants in Japan that have reusable ones and they're much more elegant or whatever. But it's not like you wouldn't just walk in and be like, what is this? Disposable chopsticks? Are you kidding? Because they're just such a part of Japanese culture So they use seventy seven percent of the other half Korea uses twenty one percent and then two percent comes to the United States. Is that all? I have to couch that that was twenty eleven figures, which is the latest I could find. Yeah, I'm kind of surprised that I would think China and Japan, it would just seem like they would like everyone would have their own and It would be a very like prideful thing to take care of your chopsticks and to have something cool looking. Yeah. It just kind of surprises me that they're so down with the disposable It surprises a lot of people, especially Japan is like really well known for being meticulous with recycling and reducing waste and stuff like that. It doesn't fit. Yeah, it's just this one thing. They really love their disposable chopsticks and they just throw them away. They're not being recycled or composted or anything like that. They're just being thrown in the trash So some what I read is that some restaurants will offer You know see U for free if you bring your own chopsticks or maybe like a d's a tea for free anyway But yeah, basically. But the there's not like a lot of There's not a huge amount of movement in Japan where China and this is, I think I read this in like like a New York Times Green blog or something like that U China's made some some moves. taxing disposable adding an extra tax to disposable chopsticks, I think. Um, moreore regulation basically overall, I think. which is really saying something, you know, I mean Um there's there's like apparently a whole Sub industry to the disposable chopsticks industry that is small enough that it escapes a lot of oversight. and they can be really problematic like there can be a lot of chemicals in these chopstick. They're just like an all around basic nightmare And it's just such low hanging fruit. All everybody has to do is just have their own chopstnicks just won't do it. And I'm guilty too L like I said, I mean, we have reusable ones at home, but we don't take them out of the house ever. Yeah, plus the paper used to encase the said chopsticks. that's a lot of paper too It is. And what do you do with that stuff? You just rip it open and burn it at the table So yeah, yeah Should we take another break Yeah. All right We'll take another break and talk a little bit about etiquette right after this, because we're all doing it wrong to a certain degree So you should. Okay, Miss Manners, lay it on him. That's doctor. Mrs. Manners That PhD squire. So this is mainly Japan that we're concentrating on with etiquette. And like you said, I think they take it a little more seriously than some other Asian countries because it turns out that chopsticks can and have had an important part in burial rightites Yeah and funeral rights, Buddhist funeral rights. Like a lot of the taboos, I guess you'd call them over chopsticks in Japan and in other Asian countries too are kind of based on like, well, that's kind of something we do with funeral rites. And so that reminds us of that. Japan is not crazy about being reminded of death or mortality or pain. same here. All that stuff is very unlucky. Like the number four is unlucky because the word for four I think she Also sounds very much like the word for death Right, I think I remember that. So they don't have four elevator floors Is that right? I don't A I makingnder if they do or not. But let's just go with that they don't. because it sounds pretty great So etiqute level one how is how this is presented. There's a couple of levels here. As far as like you really shouldn't do these things But if you really want to ramp it up, you shouldn't do these things as well You thought these were kind of willilly nilly, didn't you? Well, I mean, this is one person's opinion. Right. But the things that you really shouldn't do are the following U Do not If you like get up to go to the bathroom Don't stick your chopsticks sitting upright in your bowl of rice No And that has to do with the household Buddhist altar. because It is a bowl of rice is offered as to a dead person's spirit And this apparently is from Beudas Buddhist. Buddhist funeral rites as well because there's a photograph of a bowl of rice and to stick chopsticks in the middle of that would be for Boten I think it's they'll have like a photograph of the deceased and they give them a bowl of uncooked rice so they and they stick the chopsticks up in that. Oh, okay. I read that So it's reminiscent of that that Okay. So it so it's got that death thing going on. The death angle Yeah And then the other thing I saw about that too is that it also is reminiscent of a b. like a bowl of sand with incense sticking out of it that you would also put on a Buddhist shrine to the deceased. So they're like way too reminiscent of death for that to be okay. Okay. that makes sense now There's another one that's very similar. Don't leave your chopsticks crossed, right? Like resting on your bowl or on your plate. Just don't cross your chopsticks. It's impolite. basasically for the exact same reason as sticking them out of the bowl. Right. And I think that one is one you see like on food, Instagram food posts a lot rom White saying, you know, like cross the chopsticks because it looks cool or whatever. Look at how cool this look. Yeah, not cool apparently We talked about spearing The advice here is to treat them as if they are actually connected, even though they're not It's good way to remember Ten connect in. That's right Yeah. And remember this is like I think that goes back to like Confucius where it's like't don't have a knife at your table. Don't use your chsticks as spear food That's right Apparently it's bad luck or not bad luck, well, maybe bad luck to use two different chopsticks They should have the same mommy and daddy Person said that it's just unsightly And that it's also reminiscent of funeral rights. That one I couldn't I couldn't figure that one out. Yeah there's another funeral one too a lot of funeral rights involved chopsticks passing food from chopstick to chopstick. Like if you're like hey you got toa try a bite of this. That's just H hard to hold you that It' it's but it's kind of it's a little bit showy. Yeah. If you can do it, look at usts. But but when you, you know, if somebody grabs it with their chopstick, that's how they pass bones from cremations during funeral Rites too. And they're like, nope, that reminds us of that as well Yeah, and there are some of these that are just like, I can't believe people do this. Do not wash your chopsticks off in your beverage Yeah, that's gross. Some someone do that I don't know. apparently somebody has the other thing about this is so the fact that they have restrictions on this Social restrictions means that people have done it before. But they also go so far as like most of these things all have like individual words. That's how like aggro the Japanese are about this this kind of etiquette. Yeah They have words for that. like washing your chopsticks off in your drink is not just called Washing your chopsticks off and your drink. Yeah. there's a name for it Let me see here, do not treat them as toys and we talked earlier about putting them in your mouth like they're fangs or walrus tusks or antennas or drum sticks Just not a good look Right Uh here's another one that is This is a sort of one that I think happens a lot. is you might see women, American women maybe do their hair and put chopsticks in them Those When you see that in Japan, those are not chopsticks.. It might look like chopsticks, but they're actually called kanzashi Yeah, it'd be kind of like sticking a fork in your hair, right? If you're walking around Japan looking like that, they'd be like, whyy do you Why do you have that fork in your hair? Yeah looks a little off. But yeah like they look just like those things, but there's a separate thing. That's right What did you call him Uh Kanashi Nice. It's a beautiful work. mean, I didn't make that up Right, I know Okaykay I know U anotherother one is you'll very frequently see people do this and I've done it too and it's apppparently acceptable under certain circumstances, but when you Break your Warabashi, your disposable cheap chopsticks apart at the end U If there's splinters or there's like a piece of wood sticking out, you can rub them together. always soften the wood or get the splinters off But you're not supposed to do that is just like a matter of course because you're basically insulting the restaurant. You're saying like, these are So cheap theseese chopsticks that you're providing your gest. Yeah that like I've got to rub them together And you definitely don't want to like make eye contact with the owner while you're rubbing it together. likeike this is what I think of your establishment.. And people do that all the time. I do it. It's almost like habitual. It's habitual for me. and I started doing it when I first started using chopsticks because I saw the person I was with did it and I was like I guess that's what you do. You get those little splinters off. And now it's a total habit. and My whole thing there, I don't think that one's a really big one like especially in America, it happens so much. I don't think anyone restaurant owners like suuper insulted by seeing this? Sure, yeah, especially in America. But they are super cheap and they do splinter. Well in that case, yes, like that proprietor has brought it on himself or herself for providing everybody with such cheap chopsticks that they're splintery I will always remember this now. I'll tell you that Yeah, this is so I agree with you. I think that this is probably not that big of an insul, especially in America. It's probably falls in line with like how you're not supposed to ut your wasabi, put in the soy sauce or something like that. Well, if you want to just do it sure, you know, If you want to be remarkably polite, then you wouldn't do any of these things. Some are way worse than others, and I think that one probably falls into the lesser category even though it's under this advancing. This is why I was saying this seems willilly nilly. Yeah, and we also covered some of this in our sushi episode because If I'm not mistaken, don't you eat sushi with your fingers? or am I wrong? Don't you Don't you eat with your fingers or do you not No, I don't. I love showing off how great I am at chopsticks. I use them every turn. every time I can. Yeah. I eat millet gruel with chopsticks. That's how good I am. Yeah. O you I've seen you just fllip up a shrimp and catch it in the other one M What a show offff It's pretty great Because you have chopsticks, you have four, you have two in each hand. Yes, basically. And you do a little ses show there. It's really impressive Edward sccissor hands. Josh Chopstick finger. But no, you're supposed to eat sushi it's specifically Nagiri. Right, right with your hand. That's how it was originally done. If I remember correctly from our sushi episode. I think so. But yeah, we use chopsticks these days. Here's another no no is do not use chopstick as a rake Like don'tift up a bowl of rice and just sort of rake rice into your mouth. So that's Japan. I saw in China that's perfectly acceptable. Oh normal. Okay Yeah, it gets dicey with it's not the same everywhere, you know Yeah, here's the thing I don't know if we said this before. So in Thailand, they don't use chopsticks almost as a rule U In Vietnam, Korea, Japan, China, they're totally uiquitous, almost the only thing you're going to find that you eat with. And so that means that like even a bowl of soup, like miso soup, you're supposed to use your chopsticks for that. Like the little chunks of of um of tofu. Yeah Take me a second Um You use your chopsticks to eat those out of the bowl and then you slurp the rest or sip the rest depending but with Bryice you would hold the bowl up kind of cllose to your face, but not like up in your face. Just under your chin and out a little bit. And then you, you know eat the rice with your chopsticks from there, lifting the rice up to your mouth, not shoveling it into your mouth from the bowl. Right. And I saw with soups and things also is if you really want to ramp up the etiquette, you should try and drip into the bowl Oh, right when you like when you are picking up the tofu, you want to kind of sh shake the tofu off so it doesn't drip on you are on the table. Yes If you really want to excel etiquette, you would just not eat anything. You'd just sit there quietly with your chopsticks side by side, still in their rarapper, just smiling politely at everyone. It like it didn't break any rules and I'm really hungry. That's right. There's a couple more here. Don't point with your chopsticks That's tough not to do D pointint point at people, you know, or anything like that you're like hey like that can you pass me that thing right there? Yeah you just sort of give a little nod like, hey that pot sticker over there Yeah because they're fun to hold and point with and like do stuff with. I just I don't know. mayaybe I'm still it's still novel enough to me that I have to remind myself not to or Yumi has to remind me at the point with the chopstick. Or when you're talking and you're expressing things with your hands and you're using your chopsticks. Or if you want to just do a little maestro routine You know Let's to look down upon Or if you're using your hands for something else, you don't stick your chopsticks in your mouth and just hold them in there while you're like moving plates around or something like that, you set them down. And here's the other thing too. If you go to a very nice restaurant in Japan Or in the states and it just happens to be a Japanese restaurant How about that? really prolong this thought Um, they're going to give you a chopstick rest Oh sure. your chopsticks on. so they're kind of lifted off of the table the end that you put in your mouth. If you don't have that, you can take that paper wrapper and roll it up and make your own chopstick rest. That's right because You're setting your chopsticks down on a table that could be, you know, have germs And speaking of germs also, Chuck, you never, ever use the chopsticks that you're eating with to serve yourself from a communal plate or bowl That's for sure they should give you like a spoon or something like that to spoon it onto your plate and then you use your chopsticks because that's just germy and diseasy. And apparently, Um There's a They uh like a supplement to that where if they don't give you a serving spoon People flip their chopsticks over and use the thicker end to shovel the food ono the plate, which is not necessarily any more hygienic because that's where your hands have been rather than your mouth.. But that's the more socially acceptable thing to do than just using the business end of your chopsticks I don' know why that's so funny me But the ends though I mean, if you're using them right, you're choked up a little bit, so they're not really being touched by your hands You know true Like you don't stick the ends in your palm That's right. That's true. You choke up on it, like like a baseball bat. Yeah, they say in Korea apparently that the further down though you hold the chopsticks, the longer it's going to be before you get married Well, yeah, I mean, we could talk about some of these kind of fun fun facts. U let me see here. One is If you are given an uneven pair, you will miss a boat or a plane Mhm And this is came from Malaysia. I'm not sure if that's ubiquitous all over Asia I think it's Chinese Okay. I think Uh what else here? This is kind of fun Um if you use chopsticks It involves over fifty muscles in the fingers and thirty joints and the u Well, overall, in the fingers, arms, shoulders and wrists Pretty cool It is. Do I mean how many you use for a fork? like two? Maybe. U I saw a couple of things One is that there was a study that found that eating popcorn with chopsticks makes eating popcorn Much more enjoyable than eating it without chopsticks with your fingers instead And they even controlled for the amount of extra time it takes. to eat popcorn with chopsicks. It's not just that you're eating slower, so you're relishing it more because they had a control group using their fingers eat at a very slow pace too. And apparently they think it's just the fact that you're doing something differently makes you appreciate the thing that you're doing or that you're eating that much more Like if you pour water out of like a separate, you know, water bottle like at a restaurant how they have like the little chilled water bottles they'll bring over. Look that water would taste would taste better than water that you just pour it out of the tap, even if it was the exact same water because it's being conveyed differently Yeah. and that's also how you would get popcorn to last. through the opening previews of a movie. It's right because you're not just shoveling it in your mouth like I do. It's so bizarre, man. I do the same thing. I've tried to do the like couple of kernels at a time And you know, I do that for the first few and then before you know it I've just got handfuls that I'm pushing into my mouth. Right, Right. That's how you have to do it. You have to use the palm of your hand to really shove the entire fistful in there. You can't just use your little fingertips. It doesn't work. You'll joke on them. And I don't know if it's Um, sort of a subliminal desire for me not to be distracted during the movie Hm the ideal in the ideal world I would just sit there and munch a couple of pieces at a time for two hours Just chew them a million times. No, no, just eat a couple of kernels at a time and just really elongate the whole experience Put those chopsticks in your mse and take those to the theater People would be like, look at that guy Hey, though, you have to be careful though yes, they yes, they would. You have to be careful though who you brandish those chopsticks around because So you put this together. Kudos for that One of the facts you came up with is that there's something called consecutively Layophobia, consecutive to layophobia. I think I said which is literally a fear of chopsticks. Yeah, there's a fear for everything But but yes, but I was reading a blog post on it and some maybe PsychNet, I think And they were saying like basically two categories of phobias, ones that are semir rational. They use the example of a fear of sharks. If you did run into a shark, there's a chance you could be killed by that shark. So it's not just totally bonkers to be afraid of sharks. but the a phobia of sharks is irrational fear. likeike maybe if you live in Kansas, you got no reason to have a fear of sharks. This one, they said, this basically qualifies in the bonkers category. Like there's virtually nothing that Chop six can do to hurt you So to be irrationally afraid of chopsticks where you feel like heart pounding anxiety is a genuine dide in the wool phobia. But some people do apparently experience this although it's super rare. Yeah, that's interesting But you'll like avoid entntire types of restaurants because you can't be around chopsticks and you'll get anxious just thinking about being around chopsticks. Ohoy, that's so sad because Asian food. makes up a large portion of my diet Well, luckily for you, you don't have consecutiveleophobia. No. I mean, when I think about sushi, I think about fa R right, I think about ramen I think about good old fashioned Sesuan. Chinese food. Oh yeah Think about Korean And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I could eat I could eat that all the time. Dude, you've got to get some bude jige. I'll take you to go get some. All you're gonna're. I can't wait. You got anything else? I got nothing else. Fty five minutes on chopsticks, baby. Not bad. If you want to know more about chopsticks, go get yourself some that you can reuse and eat conscientiously with them and don't forget all the manners, but just go eat some Asian food because no matter where it's from or what it is, it's probably pretty good Since I said that, it's time for listener Mo I'm going to call this two for two Hey guys, I wrote a few years ago about Alan Alda and thought I'd share a Sammy Davis junror story Wow. And this is from Andrew Limberg in Pittsburgh. and he got his Alen Aldowin read. and when I told him this is coming on, he wrote back two for two, baby Nice. Yeah, there's people out there who are like, o for ten. I know. I'm so sorry. I assume it's not like we're keeping track of people like that. Oh, no I a scretch. turn the screws on. Oh, you do. that's me. He says so in the eighties, Sammy had been cleaned out by his ex wife and was selling barbecue sauce He was in Pittsburgh to promote it and my friend Larry, who had a local TV show at the time, got a chance to interview him. When they arrived at the hotel, they were told they would get twenty minutes with Sammy. But when they talked to Sammy's manager, he said only ten minutes. So instead of having time to set up a two shot interview and for people that don't know the lingo, that means both people are in the same camera frame They kept the camera on Sammy, and Larry would then go back and ed his footage later. So he would, I guess re askk the questions with a ghost Sammy just to edit it together. At the end of the interview, they needed just one two shot of the two of them together so they could edit it realistically. And Sammy's manager said, Nope. And Larry looked at Sammy almost begging because they needed the two shot. Sammy took a long drag of a cigarette and said, G your two shot, babe