Fashion and Iconic Style Choices

This summer, Prime V videoideo takes you back before legally blonde, before law school, and into the world of Elle Woods in high school. Set in nineteen ninety five, this Gemini vegetarian knows exactly who she is until her family moves from Bel Air to Seattle. Packed with iconic fashion, nineties nostalgia, and a throwback soundtrack, Elle proves one thing Law school was hard. High school was harder. From the world of legally blonde, watch Al, a new original series only on Prime video july first Morning decisions How about a creamy Moa Fappuccino drink? or a sweet vanilla? smmooth caramel maybe, orr white chocolate Mchca. Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks Fappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries. Lominia Mal steps into McDonald's looks left seized Pulic, looks right seed cemenez, Gives a nod to Ronaldino in the corner with a FIFA World Cup meal Ronald Dinioch sees Sun in the booth, Sun finds Beckham going for extra bigig Mac sauce. He's got Dav's at the table just behind him. Davy's going for his collectible cup.! A steal by Henri. Who pulls his own collectible cup? Collect one of nine legendary cups with a FIFA World Cup meal. participating McDald's for limited time, whilew suppies last Allights reserve twenty six McDald's at FF Wor Cup twenty six This is Talk nineties to me, where we choose our school outfit via a special computer program. We know what it's like to have people be jealous of us. We hate high school boys as if but decide to make a project out of a new girl. We save people in war torn Bosnia by sending them our skis and we actually change people's lives for the better Despite being a massively privileged rich girl who lives in a house with columns from nineteen seventy two I'miranda Sawyer and yes, this week on Talk nineties to me, we are talking the ridiculously fun, campy teenage girl classic Cueless And with me to discuss all things yellow plaid, I am delighted to welcome Helen O'Hara, editor at large of Empire Magazine, co host of the Empire Film podcast, and author of Women vers. Hollywood, The Fall and Rise of Women in Film Hello, Helen, are you totally bugging? I'm totally bugging. Al, always. I'm delighted to be here. Okay, so look, we're talking clueless. I am quite excited to talk about Cueless simply because as ever, as regular listeners know, I didn't watch anything in the nineties. I was out, but I didn't get clueless during the nineties come to Cueless as an adult and actually really, really enjoy it. Having thought it was just a nonsense. I don't know what I thought it was. I didn't think it was for me. I have watched it several occasions now. I really like this film. It is excellent. It is excellent. It's really, really good. Yeah, it's so smart. It's one of those films. I probably saw it as a, I guess certainly teenager, maybe even young teenager and you know, really enjoyed the comedy, really enjoyed the color and the life and, you the vivacity of it And then when you go back to it as an adult, there's so many more layers, there's so many many references. It's so smart, it's so considered, it's so well cast and well performed. I think it's a bit of a masterpiece actually, and I think there is this temptation to dismiss things that are especially aimed at teenage girls, but this is one of those things that is magnificent. I genuinely can't think easily of a better teen movie. I can think of other ones maybe on this level Bet I don't know. I don't even think meaning Girls is better. I think meaning Girls is the closest we've got to this. Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting to me because also there's not a moment wasted as well I think L I found myself, so I rewatched it, obviously because we were going be talking about it. And I found myself because I'm old, kind of rewinding it and thinking, what was that line again? L it's like there's a line after line after line right from the start And you think you kind of have to adjust into that, you know, because every character has a funny line. Yeah. It's way existential. But yeah, it is it's just Pack, pack, pack, pack. I feel like the script must have gone through so many drafts because, you know, everything is just sharpened to its maximum point And it is hilarious. It's really funny. I feel like, you know there are other films where they're trying to deliver the dramatic moments And they slightly step back on the comedy. evenven at the most dramatic moments, when she's having a bit of a breakdown in this movie, it's still hilarious. You feel for her, but you're still laughing at her, God bless her. Yeah, I mean, even when they're about to be mowed down by a large lorry, it's really funny. you know what I mean? Even when she's like held up, even point it's an Nalia. It's a really important designer, you know And I still cannot hear that name without thinking, that's a really important design. It's a really important design, and you have to go like it out. Yeah Okay, I'm going to give obviously a few facts about Cueless. It came out on july nineteenth, nineteen ninety five was written and directed and produced by Amy Heckling Sall we talka Amy Heckl, obviously without, this would not exist. She'd made Fast Times at Richmond High in nineteen eighty two and launched a whole lot of people from the of careers from that San Sanen. Yeah. alsoso Nicholas Cage F Fororest Whittaker. And she also did National Lampoons' European vacation in nineteen eighty five. and look who's talking? I have watched this one. Look he's talking, Look he's talking too, Look he's talking now So she was pretty successful, right? She was, but I mean, you've got to remember like This is something my book was about women versus Hollywood was about the fact that female directors had a lot less room to maneuver, I think than their male counterparts. they still do, but they definitely did in those days. You couldn't afford a flop, you couldn't afford to not hit. And so she was very she was very good at her job. She is very good at her job, but she's also been very, very lucky to kind of be able to sustain her career through that amount of time. I mean, very vanishingly few other female directors at that time were able to make that many movies in a row and to, you know, to then be able to make something like this you know an original project, not just something the studio has assigned you was even more rare and unusual. So fair play tour. All right. so the interesting thing about Clueless though, is it did go through different iterations before it became Cueless. It had different titles as well. So it was called Clueless in California.. And before that, it was I was a teenage teenager. Isn't that brilliant? Oh, I love that. I would absolutely see that. But like a riffon I was a teenage wherew for one of those. Yeah. Oh, I love that. Isn't it good? I really I mean, you know, Cluus is possibly better, but I was a teenage teenager, it's brilliant. And before that She pictched it as a teles show and it was called No wororries, right? All of which sounds good. part There's a thing about Clueless actually that feels to me a bit like a telesh. So there's like it's like a series of really fun scenes. Yes. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, it doesn't have much of a plot really, but it kind of works anyw way. I mean, they did a TV spinoff afterwards, and theyw it sort It was good, but it really missed Alicia Silverstone, I thought. So But at the same time it was just close enough. I remember watching it and thinking this is fun. I like this. I'm having a nice time But yeah, it doesn't need much of a plot. I mean it is obviously slightly riffing on Jane Austen's Emma, whichich is I think I saw somebody sum up pretty much all of Jane Austen's books as it's just people going to each other's houses. Yeah. And here they don't even have to go to each other's houses. They meet up in school. So it all takes place there, It's great. It's true you That's where the action of life is, right? That's where the drama is when we meet each other wherever it is. Yeah, that's very true. So it' defly mean, it's definitely based on Emma. and basically Amy Heckling said, she read it in college. She said it reminded her of old teley shows like Gidget. I don't know what Gidget is, but that kind of made me laugh like o. But she said because there's something really basic about it, which is true. It's essentially you know, a privileged person trying to young woman, trying to get people together, ignoring herself and then realizing, oh, what a surprise that love was in front of her all along. It's an eternal story Isn't it? Yes, it definitely is. But she knew that she wanted to set it in with teenage girls, so in Beverly Hills and she wanted it in Vverticoms to be happy. So I think that a lot of kind of maybe teenage films were you know, maybe a bit darker centered around boys Yeah, you know And as friend I think I mean if you think about the early nineties and, you when they were going through that development process You know, you have all of those really quite dark River Phoenix movies at the time. Do you remember like, you know, his parents were on the run terrorists in one He and Kanu Reeves were in a doomed relationship in another. I mean it was quite a dark time. There was also the Kanu Reeves one about suicide. You know, there were a lot of really heavy teenage movies. I mean, even a comedy at the end of the eighties like Heather's What look. incredibly dark, so twisted. So to come back with something as peppy as this was in a quiet way kind of radical because like you know, the sort of the Breck and May character of the sort of the Skater Boys, that was more the kind of mainstream culture in the nineties. And these kind of very perky bubbly girls from Beverly Hills were almost counter culture in a weird way. a weird way.' true Be essentially especially in America, it was Grunge. It was G. And the thing that really makes me laugh about she wears plaid, but she's wearing it like as cute little like mini kilt you know like it' designer version of kind of Grunge. you know what I mean? It's really funny. And yeah, you're right, it's like what was considered to be the kind of cool culture for young people at that time was slacker culture. And this is absolutely not that. It's completely the opposite. The opposite And Amy Hecklin did So a lot of the language in clist, which is really funny and everybody still uses so like You know, as if is one is one classic thing, but also the thing they say w I really like is Auti when they leave the audi. I' audi. That really makes me laugh. The way that they talk, she got by sitting in in classes at Beverly Hills High School And one of the things that she noticed is though obviously in that school they didn't dress in complete design aars. but that that all the girls are constantly grooming themselves, which is the case now I have a fifteen year old, they are constantly brushing their hair, checking the nails, doing the eye. you know, I mean, it's just constant. They've been brought up in a world where it is very presentational. You know, we're all meant to be on Instagram or whatever. generally fifteen year old girls did, I think. There's probably yeah I mean, I remember all those sort of articles in the magazines about, you know getting your eyeliner right D day to night makeup, I thought was gonna be a big part of my life I don't think I've ever done it once. No, it's very, very true. Yeah. Okay, so she she decides that she's going to make this film, right? and It was not a great time to make it. So apparently these teen targeted movies like, I don't know, these PCU and Airheads. And they came and they didn't do very well. Fox was going to do it. they got scared, everybody passed on it and then Paramount to said, o, we'll do it. So this is great.'s gonna to make a movie. This is fabulous and she decides completely that she wants Alysia Silverstone And unlessia somet simes it's really young And the reason why she wants her is she's been in this film called The Crush. And also, she's been in a series of aerosmith videos Yeah I have watched these videos. Yeah. So So she's Aerosmith, how does one explain aerosmith to people who don't know Aerosmith? They're like A rock band and they're like so rock, they're ridiculous. Stephven Tyler's always got his top offal. they're constantly playing playing the guitar in kind of lonely places on the top of a hill or something. Yeah're probablyably standing on a rock in the desert, right? Yeah that kind of thing. Yeah, that or in a teenage you know girl's bedroom, that kind of thing. And anyway She plays this teenage girl in this video for a film for a song called Crryon. and she plays opposite Stephven Dorf yeah ryes.'s veryy hot all at the time.. And anyway, she's great. And she's really funny and she's very teenage. And in the video, you know, she gets a tummy pierce and she gets a tattoo and she steals a car off him and all this kind of stuff. And then in the end, she chucks herself off a bridge. like he's trying to stop her chucking herself off a bridge, and then it's a bungee jump, haa, And she gives him the finger at the end anyway Like, this soundsolutely ridiculous. It is ridiculous. It's a stupid video, right? But Amy Heelin watched it and said she was Basically on her treadmill, of course, it's America. Watching MTV, of course, it's America. She sees this video and she said, I just went cuckoo bananas. She's funny and beautiful. Anyone who shows even a glimmer of that mix becomes a major star. I'm thinking of people like Sally Field and Goldie Horn, right? Which I don't quite get, but like she was young enough and funny enough and actually acting properly Yeah within a mad silly old pop video Yeah, but those videos at the time, like they would these big epic stories. I mean Liv Tyler, of course, was she in another one with She was in with her. Yeah. Yeah, I remember them together. So Liv Tyler was basically the lead singer of Aeros Smith's daughter.. Also a very young and very beautiful woman. And she was also in a video for them Withlicia That's one I remember weirdly. and I just remember the two of them. again, we didn't see a lot of depictions of female friendship on screen at the time. Like there was Stlma Louise. And thenre nothing, you know, and they thought there would be like a big follow up to that. And there just wasn't. It was always treated as Well, that's something you do on TV or maybe in like a hallmark movie. We don't do that in cinemas. Yeah. that's so you know don't they don't have friends. We don't like ladies in cinemas. We make movies for men and then the girlfriends and the wives come with them. Yeah, you know And so there was this tendency and there has been and there remains this tendency to think that female focused films are nich And so it always is a battle. And I think it's also a battle because Like a young woman like that needs one breakthrough to start her career, but until she has it, you know, you've got nothing. and there are very few breakthroughable roles every year because again, most of the roles go to men. mostost of the lead roles are men, most of the substantial roles are men And you get into this crazy situationes. Yeah, it's and very true. So anyway, Alyssa Silvesstone plays Our star Yeah, share Parz She is great. She has a friend called Dion who's played by Stacy Dash, who I understand now, unfortunately is a bit magga, so we're very sorry about that, but she's great She's incredible in the film. They make a beautiful double act in the film and she makes a perfect sort of Not straight woman because she's very funny herself, but just like a perfect counterpoint I guess for for. She's also much older actually than everybody else in the film. So genuinely, Alysia Silstone is playing a fifteen year old who turns sixteen in the film. She's eighteen. Brittany Murphy, who's also in it place Ty, she is also the same age. Everybody's pretty much the same age, but Stacy does, she's twenty seven and has a six year old kid. Yeah. So she's just in a different des as you would be, do you know what I mean? Anyway, the cast is great. I love it that cast. It's really stacked. When you've got all of these small roles filled out by like Dan Hadaya as her dad and Wallace Sean as one of her teachers. I love The Princess Bride, so anything with Vazini in it instantly has my vote. It's just a really stack stacked cast. I mean, even the people in kind of small roles Jeremy Siso at the time looked like he was going to be the next heartthrob. he plays Elton, who basically essentially Cher tries to get Tie with Elton Yeah. and he's the hot hunk. He's the hot hunk. And he kind of he actually went a slightly more interesting way. If you think I don't know if you've seen Waitress. But he's actually the Schmuck in Waitress And he's very good at that. And he's kind of played that role a few times And I kind of feel like he got it because of this, because he's so good at being the schchmuck and clueless. Yeah, yeahs. And then I have my two favorites in the film. So O obviously, Paul Rud's in the film. Obviously, he plays Josh who ends up being shares love interest and all that kind of. We all love Paul Rud. That's fine. Paul R Sttaul, we love him. But my two favorites U Donald Fisen, who plays Murray. Amazing. He is so good. That guy is so good. He leaps off the screen. Yeah. He's just amazing. And then went he goes on to play for a really long time. he's in scrubs.. He's so great in that film. And it is one of those performances where even though it's a small role, and even though he's there supporting the girls, you're just like, who is this guy? He's so funny all that little sort of relationship back and forth between him and Dion is just beautifully done Yeah. Like they love each other, but they're also teenagers, so they're very bad at it. but they're playing out these grandromantic gestures the whole time and they sort of have this very And he calls a woman all the time. they've got this very melodramatic view of each other, you know, and their own relationship and their own importance in the world. I just love them. I love them so much. Yeah me too An one of my favourites is Travis, who' played by Breicken Mayor and who ends up being basically ties correct love. Yeah, you know. And he is a skater boy who is like he On one level doesn't do very much. and on another level has all the best lines. I mean, he literally the first time you see him, he decides to try and kill himself and they're like sorry, I' laughing. mean but it's played for laughs. It's absolutely played for laughs.in withithin the class Yeah, he decidess just he's got a bad result. He's going to chuck himself out of the window and the teacher just goes, no suicide to now Now he can't do it now. He's great. I love him. He has a smile that lights up the place. Yeah, you see both sets of teeth. Yeah, he's like great. It's like a toddler smile. Do you know what mean? There's no vile to it. There's no manipulation.'s just everyvery single thing he's feeling you see immediately on his. I love him. he's light and he plays it quite like Bill and Ted doesn't? Yeah's he is He's Bill and Ted. He's a skateboarder. Yeah. he's great. By the end he's sober, very improbably. But you know, that makes me love him more. Anyway. I think he would have gone on to starring Jack ass that kid. Oh ye see, I mean he's my ideal. Yeah There is my ideal, man. I love him All right. So they All these fantastic people are cast, right. I just want to say then they first get the script they don't like it. because they don't like share So like When Alyssia Silverstone first reads it, she's like, att first I didn't like her. I thought, whoo is this girl? I had nothing in common with her at all. I thought she was a materialistic, annoying little bitch. But then I saw, she cares about her daddy so much and she's trying so hard to help people and do these good things. But I think that's true. When you first see her, You can't work her out because you're used to seeing these people, which are the rich people Yeah as the baddies in drama. Yeah, you know are the baddies in life. Right? I mean, I mean, I'm a bit lefty, but like if you were, if you were that rich and you're living in Beverly Hills and you've never known a minute's want for anything in your life, Most of them are not Some of them are not great people, let'd say not most. Well I'll say some of them are not great people. say most. I can probably say most. But what I think is she does have a really good heart and she does genuinely want to help people and she just doesn't know how much she doesn't know. And but I think that's also quite a good metaphor for just being a teenager because you feel everything really deeply deeply held convictions and you just are not aware yet of what you don't know And so she's just a particularly extreme case of that. She has a particularly limited worldview because of the way she's been brought up And I think it's a great kind of stock character. I mean, a film that comes a few years later and I think owes a huge debt to this one legally blonde, kind of plays the same thing. There again, you have this incredibly privileged, incredibly fashionable and beautiful and lucky girl forced to kind of confront some of the things she doesn't know and kind of growing from that But Clueless did at first, you know? Yeah, definitely. And like and also like Paul Rud doesn't really like any of it either. He was a bit like he read You know, because of his age and because he's a ret talented, you'd read a lot of teen movie scripts And then gradually as he's reading it, it's like, oh no, now I get it. It's really Smart actually, I really enjoy it. but at the beginning Like he didn't he really didn't get it at all. I've got a top pop fact. Do you want a top pop fact? Oh, please. Okay. So when Donald Fzon read for the part of Murray, He read with Lauren Hill. Wow Be she was in Sister act too around this as well, which is an incredible performance, by the way. I love her in that. And she went to school with, I can't remember the other guy in scrubs, but she went to school with him You're kidding. No no. I've got all the top facts back. I never remember the actual details as in his name. Z Zach Braff. Yeah, you went to school with him. Thank you. That is incredible Yeah, that's blowing my mind. wow. you. I thought it was going to be something about Paul Rud's failure to age since this film was made. Also very weird, but you know, Hollywood does that to I think whver you think Canda helps you make that thing Pamba is a simple online tool thing. way to design with our magic AI tool things social media your thing o Genate images or videos of your thing, make decks or presentations to show your thing. Whatever needs to be done for your thing, Canva can make it an even better and bigger thing. Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing. Study and play. come together on a Windows eleven PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the unreal college deal, everything you need to study and play with select Windows eleven PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft three hundred sixty five Pmium, and a year of Xbox GamePass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller Lear more at windows d. com slash student offer. Law S supppplies last ends june thirtieth turns at aka d. mS slash college PC This summer, serve up the cookout cllassics, Oscar Meyer Hot doogs and Heinz mustard. Grill up a dog, add classic yellow mustard, or load it Chicago style We all know it's not a cookout without Oscar Meyer and Heines So we love this film. We do. We do love this film. What are the bits that you like about this film? Because there are many Funny lines. You know, there are many funny moments, which is the bits that you remember and enjoy. I absolutely adore her preparation for her date, where she is, you know putting a roll of uncut cookie dough in the oven, because she's heard you should always have something baking when a man comes around. literally can't even handle premade cookie dough, which I think it's a tiny beat, but it's lovely. And all of her preparations for that, I just find completely charming. I love her driving lesson. I totally paused the stop sign. She's very. I love the bit where they're all standing there for their gym class which is a tennis lesson. Yeah, so good. The chat there with Amber, who's the kind of bully in the school is amazing. And then the opening debate as well. Oh, the Haitians. The Ha Yeah, it doesn't say RSVP on the Statue of Liberty. you know, justust she's so funny. It' aw There are some absolutely great les. I've wrote them down. There's just really even funny things like So when Josh comes into, you know comes back comes in. you realize that he's in the house because he's paying plastic trees, right? which is the song that I really love. And she walks in and goes, Yook the maudlin music of the university sation. wa wa, w I love it Oh and genuinely, her trying, when she realizes she fancies him and then doesn't know how to act around him, and she's trying to talk about Renna simimply being way existential, I adore that. You know She's so funny. So Travis, I just wanted to mention, he's got loads of great lines, but's a bit where they all get given loads of what they call Tardy points and Tardy points are basically de late and he gets the most. And he basically makes a speech He's up to the le said once He thinks he's won something he goes. I didn't have a speech prepared, you know. M, many people contributed to my tardiness. I'd like to thank my parents for never giving me a ride to school. The LA City bus drivers for taking a chance on an unknown kid. And last but not least, the wonderful creroup at McDonald's are spending hours making those eggc muffins without which I would never be tardy And this loads of brilliant like I just you know, I don't want to quit them all, but there are so many. There's a bit when they're playing tennis and obviously the balls are kind of shooting past and there's various excuses, but we get to Amber and she says, My plastic surgeon doesn't want me doing An activity where balls fly at my nose and Dion says, Well, there goes your s life I'm sorry, That is funny That is very, very funny. And there's Tes' got a couple of good ones where like when she first arrives at school as this kind of person that they decide they need to shape. she says, So Sare says to, you know, don't sell yourself short. You've got something going for you that no one in this school has. And Tyys goes, Oh, I'm not a virgin sorry, I'm just going to keep quoting it because there's so many, because when she's mean to share when she gets upset because essentially Ty decides she falls in love with Josh Sare has just not pass her driving test And she says to her, You're a virgin who can't dry whichich is a great. And she's got a head wobble when she says it. She turn to Cher a bit. Ferocious. Ferocious and Cher is upset, but then just goes That was way harsh time. Way harsh time. I say that quite a lot And I don't know anyone called Ti, but I say it a lot. Yeah, you can say it in your head as well. Yeah, absolutely do. It's very It's really good. bit There's a bit where she's trying to help people in Bosnia and she is going past with skis and they're going, whyy are you taking the skis? And she says don't you know, people need things. Don't you think that includes athletic equipment She's completely great, I'm sorry. I'm sure that's top of their list, really. Yeah It's so good. There are a few kind of you know, if we wanted to analyze it from a kind of point of view of now R There are kind of moments to do with there's a character called Christian. who comes into the school, he'd been away for a bit, comes back. He's got a kind of quiff, he's very hunky, and Cher decides that she wants to A go out with him and be lose her virginity to him. And we have a great scene with her and her dad, with Christian coming around to take her out and the dad is really fierce with him But anyway, it turns out that he's gay. Yeah This is treated on one level completely brilliantly in that like they just go, Ohh, he's gay, you know, and that's kind of hilarious. But the only thing and also she should have a gay friend really obviously like a character like that, she would always have a gayfriend. but he's just not V' very gay He's a kind of yeah, it's a weird thing. They've clearly tried to make him quite James Dean, you know, that kind of fifties look. He drives fifties cars. he's really into retro stuff And she just takes this as, oh, well, this is the rare high school guy who's worth bothering with. like has a sense of style. And it is part of her cluelessness that she just doesn't see just doesn't see the signs that he's chatting at the bar and that he wants to hang out with the dudes at the end. Exactly But yeah, I think that there might be some slight changes, I think to that now. Yeah Because it's a character almost that could be really fabulous and it's just kind of squashed down and It's a little bit squashed on. I think what' I mean, I guess it's good that they didn't go for the sort of stereotypical gay character in that, especially because stereotypical gay characters in the nineties were not always well drawn, but I think it There would definitely be much she would be less clueless in that respect of her life now, I think I read around the topic. and one of the things I I think is quite interesting, so that Cher has her best friend Deion is black, she's white, that's never mentioned, that's kind of amazing. But then O you, people of color who have kind of come to to the film later go, well, the problem is that then she's never developed. She just is just she's like a kind of white version of a black person. Do you know what I mean? Yeah,s there's nothing particular there about It doesn't say anything about race. It's not trying to engage with race at all. I guess beyond this idea that Murray is influenced by hip hop culture and is trying to address her in ways that like Yeah she doesn't like. She doesn't like. And so that's as close as you get to engaging with any aspect of bllack culture and it's tangential at best, you know, it doesn't they could have had the same conversations if he was a white kid who was interested in hip hop Yeah. So Yeah,t I think that's it's a fair comment, but then I guess also it's Beverly Hills High. I'm not sure if that's the place. You go for a racial commentary on America? No not been. No, I think you are correct. Okay, so when it comes out this film, it does very well. cororrectly. Correctly. Correctly. It does very well doesn't do quite as well as Tangle minute Apollo Pteen? Yes, you were right. It is pooly thirteen. So it's a modest hit. Yes, is what it's called but you know, does really well. It's cost twelve million doars to make dollars. It grossed to eighty eight million dollars worldwide,'s pretty good, I think. Yeah. But it does really, really well in the home video market, of course. And then it's really since then it's not it's funny because they call it a cult following. I just think that generations of Teenenage girls have arrived at it over and over and over and over and they really, really like it. Yeah, but then you're failing to reckon with the fact that teenage girls are considered a minority group for these purposes, I guess, so it is a cult. But think I think it's one of those things where You know, in Hollywood, they do, they want to make their money back at the box office, right? And fewer and fewer films do, especially at the moment, because I think people were trained out of going into cinema during and since the pandemic For a long time until Hollywood itself broke the model, most films made most of their money well after cinemas. They made the money back on TV, on home video, on airplanes, sales, all this kind of stuff And there it has had legs. I mean, there it shows the value of making a really good film is it's still around making money thirty years later and people are still buying them. spepecial edition DVDs or whatever else, you know? Yeah or buying it on Amazon Pime Exactly. Yeah. So you know, the best business model ultimately is to make something really, really good And so this one has always had legs. I'm sure it's made ten or fif times that easily since. Last year, so twenty twenty five, it was selected for preservation in the United States National Film Registry by the Library of Congress for being quote, culturally, historically or aesthetically significant. All of the above. Absolutely. I completely agree. And obviously you can see how it plays out. Oh, this is also reminded me of something. So I was going to say it plays out obviously in other films, but also notoriously in in the Iggyus Aia hit fantasy, which has got Charlie XX in it, although Charlie XX doesn't look like herselflf yet. But it's literally Cluel. She plays shirt in in Clueless, which brings me to, of course the music in the film, I forgot to mention, I've mentioned Radiohead. Yeah. The music in the film is really, really good. Yeah, it's really it feels right for the characters as well. I think it's again, it's a function of Amy Hckling going to the schools, talking to the kids, getting what they were into. and so it feels authentically baked into each character. Yeah, it's ab's absolutely great. I mean there's, you know, there's some really funny moments made with her as well. So The song that is playing when Ty kind of collapses and Elton picks her up is Rolling withith My Homies by Culio And then he asks her, are you rolling your hand? I'm doing the hand gesture, right? The hand gesture is very important.. And I mean, that you know then the song that she gets heartbroken over. I mean, just, I mean that's a great song anyway. But there's loads of you know, counting crowses in it. It opens with kids in America, not by the muffs as opposed to the more familiar one to in the UK Wild. So it it's got a really great soundtrack that we can that you could play now. Yeah You know, it's it's completely Excellent. And radiohead also appears again. they play fake plastterreies when they're in the car. Josh plays the Joshaysers So do you think that there is an influence throws forward because this obviously we can say mean girls I mean that there other films like because there's an idea that they then people decided that you could make films kind of based on Classics like Emma. So like ye cruel intentions. crruel int there was O, which was an Othello film set in high school. Not a great one. T ten things I hate about you. Ten things I hate about you is probably the closest. That's based on the T of the sh. That based on the Ting of the Shrew, and is also hilarious. genuinely real. Another one of my daughter's favorites. Great, great teen movie, great script Incredible supporting cast there. you've got people like Alison Janny just turning up for no reason. incredible film. So it did start a mini trend of those. There was also an Emma the following year, which is probably coincidental because it would have been well into production when this came out, but there was a moment of kind of Jane Austen being Gyn Pr one. That's the Gynith Pulttrw one. And and also the BBC one would have been ninety six as well, right? So that would have been A major thing. So Jane Austen was kind of in the She's always in the moment Lat in Britain, though, she She always is. Never off It was a cool one to kind of put her in this situation, I guess, and that worked really well. And then I think it has shaped every single teenage film since to be honest and certainly every single good teenage film since. I would think you know I think booksmart, they would cite it as an influence. I think legally blonde, it's all over legally blonde as an influence. I don't think mean girls would exist without it, although that also has a little bit of Heathers in it All of these films, I think owe something to Clubeless. It is a giant of that genre And I think it's one of the films that has helped that genre get a bit more respect, which it deserves. But like I say, I think I think things that teenage girls like is the most suspicious group of things for everyone else in the world. If teenage girls like banned other, you know, Other people in the culture seem to seem to be very suspicious of that. you know, like the Jonas brothers or whoever only break out after someone other than teenage girls likes you know, Taylor Swift only becomes respectable when er fans age out of their Yeah, or her fans age out of their teenage years and become twenty something. Yeah. there's a prime nineties example of this which I have used before, which is essentially Bur. If you follow Bur' career, as soon as like in ofvert comes the teenage girls like it, which is park life, then they're not taken this seriously by the NME boys. And once they make an art move to the left Yeah to shed literally shed those fans then they're considered to be cool again. It is nonsense obviously. Yeah. pop music doesn't exist without teenage girls and teenage girls have got the best taste in pop music. And even the Beatles, I feel like, you know you know when it was teenage girls front center, they weren't respectable. when they started kind of experimentation, then yees, They a bit proroggy Exactly. bit boring. It's what I say. Anyway, speaking of teenage girls obviously Alicsia Silverston is a teenage girl. Yeah. She's a teenage girl when she makes this show. She's playing a fifteen sorry sixteen yearirl herself she is eighteen. Anyway, I have dug up an interview with the lovely Alicia Silverstone for Rolling Stone D by a guy called Rich Cohen. All right withith Alyifia Silverstone, who is eighteen? Alylicia Silverstone is a kittenish, eighteen year old movie star whom lots of men want to sleep with. That's literally the first line There's literally that first line. Oh boy. And he basically puts this to her and she says, that part's not me, Silversson says, what people think about me of doing with me, it can be gross. He pursues this throughout the whole of the article. He calls her a knocked out, dreamy eyed little raapunzel I mean It's just a p like he makes kind of weird u Pervey remarks about a picture that she shows him of when she's six years old. sixix year old bikini clad Alyssia on all fours on a white shag rug Hm, um Anyway Uh, it's She has straight blonde hair that foalls around her shoulders, wide eyes and a mouth that people describe in ways that she finds inappropriate I mean, he's just hot, it's really, really horrible. And then it comes to the bit that the reason why he says it is that basically she's not like a supermodel. She is a girl that you could conceivably date and I'm like, could you though? A girl you did date even raiseed to the highest power. She has the brand new look of a still wet painting, touch her and she'll smudge It's revolting, honestly. It is absolutely revolting. And what it's a prime example of what happens in those days, which is essentially you send a guy to go and interview a young woman and The appeal of the young woman is deemed to be just her looks as opposed to her talent. She's completely brilliant in the film. She's in every scene, She's absolutely hilarious, she's completely great. That is not touched upon. It's just what she looks like and what she does to you know, how he makes her feel. But also what means what that means is that then she gets asked questions about this. Yeah. L basically how do you feel being a sex symbol? What's it like And there is no answer to that. Like this happens over and over again in the nineties. It's really annoying. but this is what she says, which I think is really great She says, I can't speculate on how people see me, but I do wonder how they can see me as a sex symbol. I can't see anything about me that equals sex. It's strange to think of what other people might be thinking of me. I want to be an actress. I want to create other people. I don't want other people to create me, right Quite right Quite right, and that is true of whether or not you're an actress or not. Yeah. You don't want other people to create you. You want to be allowed to be created. But at that time, if you were a good looking young woman You were created by these kind of lecturous older men into something that you weren't It was really gross and I feel like, you know, because We in the nineties, we thought we were pretty progressive And we didn't even know was going on. We didn't know that was the sc we were shing in. you know, we were like, yay, esssentially it was kind of like the start of the Barbie movie. like feminism is one. We're you know, we're here, yay And then you look back and you're like, what was going on? And it was all of these middle aged men sent to interview teenage stars about their sex lives Not about the work and it was considered completely normal background noise, noody raised an eyebrow really about it I genuinely feel like sometimes I had this up until when the M two revvelution started coming out in twenty seventeen I remember thinking for the first couple of days, well this is all going to blow over because it always blows over And only really slowly kind of realizing, oh no, maybe something is actually shifting and maybe this time it won't blow over. maybe people will realize this is wrong and maybe I'm only just realizing that this is wrong and not just the way of the way of the world, you know? Because we did just shrug it off and try and move on with our lives the whole time Because there's no other way of doing it. There's no other way Be you want to live your life. Unless you want to be furious the entire time, that was what you kind of had to do. Yeah, you know Yeah, that's really. It was so gross honestly, anyways. I just brought it up because it was making me go Yeah. So after that, after Clueless, obviously Alyssia Silson becomes a star. What do you think I mean, what's her work like been since then? She's become kind of a veggan activist a bit, hasn't she? as well? Yeah she has. I think itn't she hasn't had the career she should have had for her talent and I think some of that may be her choosing to step back for family reasons, for life reasons. I think it may also be because of this kind of grossness. There may be an element of I don't want to get into that again But she definitely was never as big a star as I think she should have been. I think she got tyightcass quite early. I don't think she got given scripts this good You know, she was seen as the bubbly blonde and that wasn't particularly something that anybody seemed to want for a little while And it's weird, I do a Christmas movies podcast called Ba Humbug and she was in a Christmas movie just last year, I think. When see you, I' watched a lot of these movies and a lot of them are terrible. And part of the reason they're terrible is they have slightly underwhelming non charismatic stars. So when you get any kind of real star in one of those movies, it feels like a breath of fresh air And she came and did one of these movies and you're like, o, thank God, I'm in good hands. This is someone who can hold the screen. This is someone who can hold my attention. This is someone who can inject this frankly very thin material with actual meaning and charm and wit and everything else. And she has that, and this is twenty five, thirty years later, she still has that And it just has not been used because there wasn't the material there. At the very least, she should have been leading an incredibly good sitcom for fifteen the last thirty years, right? At the very least And I think it's an absolute travesty that she hasn't had a much, much, much bigger career. She's had some hits, but like Nowhere near the level she should be on. Yeah. it's nutice, isn't it? I mean, other characters you know, have done Lviously Paul Rood. you know' done really, really well. Britneany Murphy I feel like we should talk about she died age thirty two, two thousand nine. It was like, I mean, what it seems to have been is almost like a mistake. She was very, very anemic. It wasn't really discovered and She died. It's really really a tragic story. Deeply, deeply tragic. And again, a really talented comedic actress and dramatic actress as well. She'd done both she probably had the biggest breakout, I guess of the girls in this movie. She probably had the the most chances after this, but then she was taken so so young. I mean, that's just that's no age at all. No. It's just really terrible. Yeah, really, really hardorrible. Really awful. But anyway, I feel like we should you know, obviously finish on an upbeat thing. And one of the things I would like to say is watching Clueless last night completely lifted my mood. I was overworked, I was feeling really glum I watch Clueless and it's just great. it's great. I mean, it is like Visually it looks like sweets. You know, it looks like It looks like a bag of starburst or something. Skittles yeah, Skittles. exactly Skittles. Taste the rainbow, right? I mean seriously, But it's colorful, it's sunshiny, it's so witty, it's so clever. You're not dumbing yourself down to have a good time. Your brain is still engaged and it's having a good time. And especially in the modern world, that's a pretty rare thing. I love it Love it. Yeah, me too. It's absolutely great. Hoay, Hoay This episode is brought to you by Fox One Watch all one hundred and four matches of the FIFA World Cup live in four K for just nineteenllars ninety nine cents a month, with three days free Build your own multi view, choose up to three streams, and follow players spotlights. Stay on top of every moment with live stats, highlights, and instant replays. The FIFA World Cup, streaming live on Fox One, offers a subject to change seefox. com for complete terms and conditions This episode is brought to you by Red Finn You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking Maybe even scrolling homelistings on Redfin saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing to help you find and own a home. With agents who close twice as many deals, when you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get started at redfin. com Own the dream. This episode is brought to you by State Farm You know those friends who support your preference for podcasts over music on road trips? That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance. With over nineteen thousand local agents, they help you find the coverage that fits your needs. So you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride. Download the State Farm app or go online at statefarm dot com like a good neighbor State Farm is there. This week's Betty, sorry, Tal nineties Queen is Vanessa Rowlands. Queen Vanessa is one of our fabulous patreon members who's decided to divert some of her extensive clothing allowance to her favorite nineties pod. Thank you, Queen Vanessa. Hope the recent races didn't mess up your nude patent stilettos too much And it's also a huge thanks to this week's Tk nineties King, King Greg. no surname, obviously. He's royal Thank you, King Greg. Hope your slow walk, checking out the Epaulettes of fainting Soldiers provided you with all the joy you can handle for one day If you too would like to become T ninetiess royalty, then St over to patreonot com and search for Tal nineties to mee. For just a few pounds a month, you'll also get extras like special episodes on nineties stupid stuff and the chance to get your hands on some talk nineties to mee merch Oh ye. And if you can't afford to do that, we would love you to email us. We're doing our festival episode as you know, and we want your Torrid nineties Festival tales Just email Taught nineties to me at podmasters. co. uk or DMers or give us a voice note on Instagram at Taught Nies to mee pod Now on with the show Let's quickly do the outfit. Yeah Okay. so one of the things I would like to say is why hasn't there actually been some kind of app is a clueless app so that you could put your clothes in and do the same thing that Sher does by just spinning your tops around and spinning your skirts around and getting the perfect outfit. Yeah, it should be much, much more of a thing. In this day and age, there's absolutely no excuse for not having that. I'm appalled.. I know that like some shops tend to I don't want a stylist. No I just want a kind of really on my home computer kind of thing. Exactly. And also in those graphics, I really like the old school graphics it. Okay. So the fashion is quite important. There are some kind of very well known outfits. I mean, the yellow plaid is very very well known. And that is like literally a kind of Halloween outfit. You could wear that and everyone would know what it is. I mean, it used to be only Rupert the Bearr wore yellow plaid and she absolutely stole it from him And now nobody associates him with anything. Not at all. She's definitely taken that. There's also the moment where she goes on a date and she comes down in a kind of white slip dress And they're kind of he goes, what have you got on you're not going out like that. And she goes it's Calvin Klyin, obviously. But like she and she says this, I'm going to put something over the top and she puts like a see through kind of little shirtir over the top. She looks absolutely brilliant. There is of course the Classica Lya moment where she iss robbed.'s very important to design. Her phones, I feel like we should also mention the phones because phones were not common in those days and they got they've got a little antenna. great Compy things Yeah that you know, she gets robbed for the phone and for her bag. It's very, very sad. Very sad. But she deals with it very well because she's fabulous.uckily unluckily the dress isn't damaged, which is the main thing. Yeah, she just lies down for a little while What other outfits that would you I remember the Black and white check with the filmy shirt underneath over the mini skirt. Again, all of the socks sort of over the knees. Oh yeah, that's such a teenage look. yeah, such a especially kind of clueless again in that era, especially. There's also a moment where she wears something that is very nineties, which is basically a white t shirt with a kind of a kind of black a slip over the top. Yeah. Yeah that's like very I mean still of bab daulting shirt thing going on? Yeah, very much so. And then also just like when You know, when Ti is trying to do the counture. And I love that montage at the dance where she's really awkward and what she's wearing is she keeps changing the way she's wearing her plaid shirt over the top and tying it around her waist and tying it around her shoulders and trying this and that and the other thing. and it never quite. And she wears. She wears dungaree shorts Dungere shorts. I'm sorry, I am very fond of a pair of dungaree shorts But like that's to show that she's a bit awkward. Yeah. And she doesn't really know what's going on.. B she's just perfect for Travis. like just let them together at the beginning. Yeah. And also there's a really great bit where there's the analysis of all the different tribes in the school which Sher does for Thi. And then a bit later on, She basically describes everybody was wearing and it's the slacker look, which I mean, I have to say I was big big at the time Grge wear, you know like kind of really baggy jeans over the top of kind of check box of shorts but pulled down enormous t sht. I mean, you know, it's a hot look, I'm sorry, she was wrong about that, but she didn't like it. Yeah. I think there is such a thing as too low slung with the jeans and to be fair, they sling them fully below The curve, you know. That's top of the thighs. There's no bum coverage there whatsoever, it is not one. But yeah, I think, you know, I mean, personally, I think out of the people I think that Travis has got a very strong look. I think he does. I agree.. We're all about Travis basically, to be honest. Okay, so here at Talk nineties to meet, we of course have a Tk nineties Spotify playlist to take us through a party in the valley. Which track would you like to add Heelen? Oh no, it's not really very party, but I was thinking this is more like a chill out end of the evening. You're driving everybody home. 'use I used to be the designated driver. I'm very cool. I didn't drink. So I was a designated driver and some of my best memories are just driving around at like two driving is for. Taking everybody home dissecting wh it have whatever'd happen in the night And we used to listen to the Bue tones pututting out fires. Perfect. And it's a beautiful song and I think it's lovely. Okay. It's very chill. Okay, so we could watch Cueless. Yeah And then we could listen to that to take it down a level. Drive around pausing at all the stop signs, listening to the blue tones. Excellent. o. That was taught nice to me, featuring the excellent Helen O'Hara, who can be found on the Empire podcast and in darkened rooms across the land, eating popcorn and definitely switching her phone all the way off. What is there anything you would like to plug, Helen I have a couple of books that came out last year. I've got a Quentin Tarantino Dictionary. So if you're into QT, this will take you right through his career in handy to access. Alphabetical mode, and also fifty film ideas you really need to know, which is basically just kind of an introduction to film, history Theory, the whole lot Oh, that's great. Yeah, so kind of helpful sort of start. If you don't want to do a film studies degree, this'll give you most of the same information. Yeah, perfect. Okay, if you join our Patreon, not only will you get the chance to buy some cute merch such as Talk Nighty's to M Mugs Long sleeve t shirts, sorry, the dog is just going a bit mad. T nineties to me mugs, long sleeve t shirts, bucket hats, you'll also get special extra episodes about stuff I like from the nineties. That's a bit too odd for the main. That's a bit too odd for the main show and you might become our T nineties King or quQeen for a week And even if you don't join our patreon, why not subscribe to Talk nineties to Me on your podcast app and follow us on Instagram and Blue Sky. You can leave a voice note for us there if you want to chat about festivals, where're Talk nineties to Me Pod. orr you could send us an email so you can tell us about your own nineties and what you might want us to fe and what you might want us to feature on the show That email is T nineties to me at podmasters dot co dot uk Howudies Uncovered windows can make your home feel up to twenty degrees higher. Stay cool and save up to forty five percent off custom window treatments during the fourourth of July VIP access sale at blinds. com