Reflecting on Alcohol and the Nineties

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Now on with the show This is Talk Nighties to me, where we like to combine our award winning comedy career with an award winning radio and podcast career, where we do a top up of small life wins in a weekly competition with our best friend, where we've wanted to win, any competition we've ever entered and several we haven't, but Taskmaster and House of Games trophies are on our mantlepiece ' given up drinking and run a marathon and written a book with all that spare time, as well as becoming slightly obsessed with bench pressing and condiments I'm Miranda Sawyer and this week on Talk nineties, I am delighted to be talking to co host of my actual favourite radio comp podcast hybrid show, Ellison John. It's Amersam's finest spreadsheet ninja. It's John Robbins. Hello John. Hello everyone. What incredible intro. I'm thinking, why does she need a script? And then it's like, Ohh right. She needs a script because she's written this down. Okay fantastic So look, John, you have written a memoir called Thirst Twelve Drinks, whichich Changed My Life, which is about your relationship with alcohol and is completely brilliant As you know, I've actually read bits out to my family members because such a nice message to receive when you told me about that. Yeah, Well, it's very true The firstirst is kind of constructed around twelve drinks, which is a really good idea But it doesn't include the nineties. Hoay And it also includes music, also heray, which is a Good way into memories, I always feel If we are to look at the nineties, for you. So basically at the beginning of the nineties you're Eight ish and at the end, you're eighteen at the end, which means you start as a child and then you end as an adult, which is kind of amazing. And those years are the bits where you become a person, but you're not in an environment where that you can alter You know, like like you're at school, you're at home. it's not You have no choice, but you're becoming a person within that time. It's quite a seminoal. ten years And so much stuff doesn't change from ' eighteen onwards. Yeah That sort of s so much about who you are So anyway, we're going to your nineties fire music, we decided, didn't we? Yeah, yeah. And At the end of ' ninety one This is important for you. Freddie Mercury dies. Yeah. That's really when music begins for me And where does it begin when he dies? Because that was my first ever taste in music. I didn't have a taste in music before then And I heard about this guy on the news and I My mum had played like cassettes that people had made for her and it would be quite eighties classic stuff like Fleetwood Mac and Pul Simon. Yeah. But I wouldn't say there were songs I liked or necessarily music I liked. and then together in my head that this guy who died was in a band and I think My dad had left about sixteen months earlier and It was just this man and I really was looking for men in my life. Yeah, like like a f. I mean you say in the book it's a bit like a father figure isn't it? you said another unobtainable dad into my life. Yeah, the sort of distant Dad. Dad as well. I mean, a sorry. a very flamboyant And let's get to any the other bonus stats Brian, Roger, and John I think if you had All the facets of Queen and your dad, it would be great dad. Really good. He's a bit rock and roll, He's studious.. He's quiet and flamboyant somehow. Yeah He studied dentistry, astrophysics, art and electronics. It's a lot. So anyway, this obsession began And it was an obsession It wasn't just liking music, it was collecting, learning about anything I wanted for Christmas on birdays had to be something to do with the Queen calendars I remember once asking my mom if I could phone someone from the back of the Queen fan Club because they had some vinyl for sale. I didn't have a record player I just wanted to own everything I rememember my sister saying to my mum, He was on the phone for forty five minutes And you know, I'm like a sort of ten year old on the phone to some guy. And I was looking back at my old ban cllub magazines and it's literally like My name is Paul. I'm fourteen years old. I would like to go to the Queen Fan Club Convention. My address is fourteen Crescent Avenue Here's my phone number and my postcode. Jesus. suchuch a different time. Yeah. So begins with Queen. probably ends with like Postrock in the form of Mogwa and Gods spepeed and then right at the end I'm introduced to Bonnie Prince Billy an Americana But what happens in between those two things sets in place my music taste forever. Of course, because that's the time when you do. There's nothing really I can't trace back to the nineties. So anythingthing from my iTunes or my CD library or whatever it is, I can follow through the family tree to something in the nineties. Yeah. yeah. It's interesting because there's a CD that you told me about which I've listened to you'll get to. And I listened to it and I thought, that is the CD of somebody who will eventually like geese U Yes, It's just so is so true Yeah, that CD was massive for me Yeah we're definitely going to talk about it. We'll get to it first a second. but I think it's when you're talking about queen, Like you're of a certain age so you're like eight nine And that is the age when quite often You know, you're a little boy. You're a little boy and like at that age, quite often little boys are into football. you're not into football And if you are into football, then you've got panini stickers to collect, or you're into maybe Pokemon. you've got Pokemon things to collect. So what's interesting about that is you find Queen and then you find the collectible bit which is like Like I think kids, boy quite often. I know this is a complete. like sweeping generalization, but qu often they want to be like the master of what they know about And that's the age when they can be They just collect it all and they put it all in a book It it's a bit like that, isn't it?'s like learning the world of Queen by knowing everything about it. Yeah, but it was also it was really really my first experience of Music and the power of music So when I heard Qeen two, Like even if you were hadn't heard it and put it on now, it's like, that wow, this is quite a full sound. There's a lot going on here. So when you're ten and you listen to Qeen two It was like I just couldn't couldn't consume it enough I would just You know as soon as the cassette finished, turn it over and start again So my sort of early CD collection would have been Queen's G Its two Queen I, Abber Gold. Classic And then weirdly Blue lines by massive attack, which my mum's friend gave me So I suddenly had this way into the adult world and was weirdly quite cool for about a week when I was listening to blue lines going, this is amazing. I had no idea about Bristol, the Bristol scene. I was living about eight miles out of Bristol, but I'm in a suburban You know, semi detached house that just looks like every house from the eighties. Yeah And I d d d I was wow And then just getting all the quQeen cassettes, but there was always a sense of loss in it. was because I'd lost the band that I'd just discovered. Yeah yeah So made in heaven, the album they were working on in the nineties with all of the sort of fininal recordings of Freddie was a huge deal. And they released load of singles which came out of CD and colored vinyl. so I got all of the different formats And that came out in ' ninety five. so we're now into sort of blur versus oasis. Yeah. And I'm like I'm going ye There's a third horse in this race Queen's made in heaven Bohemian rhapsody came out ninety one when he died Yeah That was number one. Yes, it was. That was big news. Yeah U Innuendo came out in ninety one That was number one album. that had a number one single on it. They hadn't had a number one since pressure And then they had Innuendo, the song itself. Yeah. Made in Heaven got to number one, the album So So you saying that actually the nineties was quQeens? No. But I'm saying they were quite a big presence in Yes. This's quite funny because also even though the Beatles were quite a big presence in the nineties. It free as a bird. Yeah, you just forget it becausecause if you're used to thinking about new things or you're used to thinking about the culture that's happening at the time, you forget all those other bits It's you know, an observation Ellice has often made about, you know, those documentaries about the minor strike or blur versus oasis or punk They all assume that everyone is changing the way their living room looks every year So anyone's living room is, if you're in nineteen eighty six, it's a nineteen eighty six living room. No, most people's living rooms in the eighties were from the fifties or sixties Yeah. becausecause how often do you get a new sofa Yeah, you get ever do you ever get a new sofa? We had this back then. We had the same sofa for years and then I had it. best you're living in a seventies house You know, if you with that sort of u BBC four view of the past. Everyone's walking around with Mohicans and dressed like neur romantics. It's like no, you know, Genesis was still massive in the nineties These were big bands. I know, but you know, we don't like to think about them. This is This podcast is about the nineties is not just about Indie in the nineties and I think Qeen deserve their own patri and only special section. OkayK, well maybe they do, maybe they don't. They were very important for you at the beginning of the nineties. and you know, Freddie Mercury is always amazing, you know, I mean, But it's interesting that We still, like a teenager listening to this, will know who Freddie Merker is. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. They have found a way getting new generations of fans every, I'd say eight to ten years, they have a project which puts them right into like cast stereo The living room. That's funny because I just think that people just don own Bohemiaian Rhsody, but that's not true. Because if you think about it, they had, I mean, Freddy dies ninety one Maybe it have a ninety five, a case that that's all. between those is commentary about his death and the way they made that album Then they have We will Rock you The Musical. Oh of course, whichich is massive. Enormous. Massive, abbsolutely massive. Then they have Queen and Adam Lambert Then they are on things like Britain's got talent, America's got talent They just are able to scoop up ten million listeners aret they like occasionally, you know, whenever there's a Queen's Jubilee thing, they're always available, aren't they? Yes, a Brian playing on the roof of Buckingham Palace. you know, had a number one with five the band five. Now that's we might laugh at that. I would never laugh at five, but that's B And the thing with the guy who did the other Jubilee, what's his name? The longhe singer Is the one who was on Eururovision Ken Sam Ryder That's live on the BBC. They You know, how many modern bands are live on the BBC? You know? Not era. Well, of any era. And then the thing with now who's the Benson Boone they do a thing with? Yeah, they just are quite clever There is a but there is a real panniness to whether it's their management or them of going How do we sell these albums again because there ain't any new on. And also they must still get on with each other. because what is quite interesting about that is there are bands obviously that will always sell, like you mentioned Abb, Abb will always sell. But there's some members of Abb that don't want to perform, hence likeike the hence the big kind of, you know, Aber experience, but like the They've managed to keep on enough cordial terms in order to be to come together and do a few things every other year. Well, I think Queen are Lucky in that John Deacon was like, I'm out. I want a quarter of everything. You do what you want, I'm out Roger doesn't care. His lifestyle is very expensive. so he's like, if I'm I need twenty million a year to break even. So as long as that's coming in, I'll do it.. And then Brian, who cares so much that it's like he has the world on his shoulders. From badges. He is I guarantee Every detail of every rememaster, every reissue, every font He is taking sole responsibility for that So saw everyone was had. that works. Yeah Oh good as a young, you know as a child, you've found this band, you've also found blue lines which I do really like the fact that you found that. There's a bit in your book where you say on your shelf in your bedroom, you've got fllies, Ghosts to smugglers top George's Marvevelous Medicine, the Osborne Book of Flags, and then Blue lines that's just childhood, isn't it? Childhood is so amazing like that. It's just like, well, all these things I like and I'm never going to get rid of them until I actually leave home. and I'm just gonna add things onto it. It's fine. At the time I got blue lines, I got given a cassette of on the hour whichich was a radio four comedy show. Yeah very funny. which was the precursor of the day to dayay, which is the precursor of Alan Partridge then began like my comedy entrance into the world and I was talking to my friend and was he made a really good point about Chris Morris. who was a big figure in the nineties. Yeah, massive is that he was too powerful for us. We didn't know what to do with him as fifteen, sixteen, seventeen year old boys Yeah It was too good and too it was beyond us, but it was so delicious. I remember watching the day to dayay when it came out. Bllant and like when Chris Morris just says the Bank of England has lost the pound In a way, I don't think I've ever stopped laughing at that So then when Brase came out and the Peter Geddon episode It was too much for me. I couldn't It was too much for a lot of people. It was too much mean, it was certainly too much for like the government. they couldn't cope with it. But I didn't have the intellectual rigor. So I would adopt the language of Chris Morris and the idea of it's offensive. Yeah So you got all these teenage boys running around being offensive because they're like Chris Morris quite knowing how to use that language or what boundaries they were pushing. O also what it was because actually what he's taking the Mickey out of his life is the medjia at the time and the media personas at the time. and you're just like going Johnson Cake. Yeah, yeah, yeah. ye which's just not the same. So he's sort of taking the Mickey out of outrage But we were just sort of like We just grew this whole Lexicon, which was mainly Chris Morris and a bit of Alan Partridge I not quite having maturity to know how to deal with it. That's fine. That's good. Yeah. It's great. I'm just very glad there was no social media. Yeah. Well That's the joy of the ninetighties. there really wasn't. You also said in your book that your first singles, which I have looked up. Bubbling hot Pato Banton and Rankin Roger Pato Banton and Rankin Roger. That's quite good. That's cute, isn't it? Yeah, I think so yeah. It's a cute, it's a cute up tpo song. But this one is interesting So it's it's basically the music from the Guinness ad in nineteen ninety five and it's the one that goes d d d d do that one And it's from an advert and the advert I looked up is so ninet to to advert It's that basically there's quite a cool older Barman who's pouring a glass of guuinness, a pint of guuinness. and then there's a really nineties bloke who is dancing while to that music while waiting for the guuinness to settle. He's got like a big shirt on, he's got a nineties haircut. He's pulling nineties faces. Do you know what I mean? Like there's certain nineties faces that people pull that kind of slightly sarky Like Like everyone in the nineties used to wink on the cover of anything He's kind of doing that look while he's dancing for the Guinness. It's quite funny. And obviously, you know, I get completely why a child would like that tune because everybody's like that tune. it's like from the nineties fifties, Everyone lo that tune. But it's quite interesting given your book that it's associated with drink. And I've just realiz you now, I guarantee I would have heard both those songs on The Big Breakfast. Oh yeah, o yeah. And I would have thought and the Scat Man as well, Scatman John I really like Eong But yeah, it's kind of crazy to think I don't know if it must have changed now, but Often the new Guinness advert was quite a big deal and the song would be a big deal And you know, you would have it being played on the Big Breakfast, which is like a kids TV show. I don't know whether there are laws against how you can sublimally advertise alcohol to kids anymore. But I bought these two singles I got them home and And I remember thinking I'm not sure bubbling hot by Pato Banton and Rankin Roger is very cool. I do quite. worried about the coroolness? I would think I was cons point of weren't wondering about it. Like I had limited money And I'd spent it on these two cassettes There' been one ninety nine each. I' thking I don't think I don't think you've got maximum coolness out of this. So I took Pato Banton back. and exchanged it for misshapes by pul And I think that might be one of the most important things I ever did. Yes, I've literally written that down. Swapped it for miss shapes. This is very important. of important. Is your like thirteen, fourteen? Yeah That is a very important single For many, many people. Yeah. It's like, you know, it's It's a kind of the absolute epitome of it and if you look at the video as well, it basically describes the absolute outsiders and says to them, you can all join together. and you know, win because you have because of your mind, you know, as opposed to everything else. And they have a fight in the video as well, which is very funny And I don't know whether I againgain, discovered another sort of dad in Jarvis Cocker And I don't know whether it was thinking Finally there's someone for the likes of me or whether I thought there's someone I want to be like But it was the first time that the notion of not fitting in was a strength Mm something to take ownership of Because until that point school had been, are you in or not And I never was and the idea that you could be outside of the popular gang cooler than them because of that Yeah. was I mean, mind blowing. L It changes so many people's lives. You can be cooler by having a bad time at the party. You can be cooler by the fact the girl doesn't like you back that makes you You are deep and you're a poet and you can wear a velvet jacket now Things it was fine Okay That's going to be my path Yeah, I mean, you know, there's a really brilliant book in your book what you write is basically If you wore Kappa and light spitting Then after school you either played sport or got the hell out of Dodgeer Smoke Weed If you still dressed in clothes your mum chose with the odd velvet flourish from of then it was things like the school magazine Chess Club student Committee and drama.. But then what Pulp buffers you is it says to you, you can do all that, but also this it's almost like a way forward into adulthood, isn't it? It's saying, Okaykay, you can do all this. you can dress like a kind of very thin geography teacher as he still dresses. He still dresses exactly the same and this this kind of path will open to you that is Gs going to be great I guess he was Morrisy or they were Smiths in a way, but what I never understood about the Smiths who I I listen to in later life, but never They weren't part of my teenage experience. It was why Apparently their gigs qu were quite rowdy. Yeah. Like their fans were quite they were sort of an ultras vi It was more masculine than you might expect. So like when they played Be they were, they were absolutely at the right time for me and they were in Manchester. so you could see them quite easily, you know. they would He inspired a devotion in men that you just likely straight men that you wouldn't really expect. they would throw themselves at him, they would trick themselves onto the stage. they absolutely did. And I just think at that time gigs were really, really quite blokey, like really actually throughout the nineties as well. like now I go to gigs and I like, oh, it's really Gigs, I would expect to be more men than women, it was quite equally divided, but at the time there's just more men at gigs really. And so and he just inspired this nutty people literally throw themselves at him is mad and Going to So Pulp was the first band I saw first I mean that I mean, sorry, that's cool. Oh, I was going to bring my I still got the t shirt from that show, the Birmingham NEC ninety six And they're in the pump. This is an imperial f. Yeah, that's like I mean, they were mainly playing his and hers and different class, but by then I'd gone back and I'd I had the countdown compilation of their early stuff and I had Sheffield Sex City is that the EP Yeah So I've done a bit of a deep dive But looking back, it also was gave It was a very equal gender split and I reckon it must have given Girls who felt they didn't fit in exactly the same permission to to have a cause And I remember all the merch was big with Pp Yeah They had two shirts with great They had like girls pants. They had pants with do you remember the first time Yeah. I had some And it wasn't about whether you were good looking That was what was so important about them in a sense. Because when I just remember if you were good looking at school, you were sort of in the popular group by I don't know how. it just sort of you just like they had to do a intentional pull All of the good cheekboned people. I think Akne went across social sort of groups. But Pul concerts It was just like all the people who didn't quite fit in elsewhere becausecause Oasis was broadly a bit more aggressive. Bo always I don't know, just didn't strike me as being particularly romantic. It was sort of like maybe more slightly wide boy type vibe. I'm not don't know because In't it wasn't in either of those camps, but ye I had a way of going I can talk to people about music now because I really like Pulp Yeah And what did you wear when you went to that git? can you remember? I would have worn a velvet jacket And I I remember smoking a cigar little those little small cigars you get in tins. Yes, I remember those. I remember smoking that and I lit it with matches and everyone got their lighters out for sorted freesason whiz. But I just had my box of matches. So I kept lighting matches and then they'd burn my fingers then I'd light another match. The things you have to go to people don't realize that one they can just hold the phone up, mean I mean, that's a great gig first gig. How brilliant is that? Yeah, I loved it studies Come together on a Windows eleven PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the unreal college deal, everything you need to study and play with select Windows eleven PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft three hundred sixty five premium, and a year of Xbox GamePass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller Learn more at windows d. com slash student offffer. Law Supplies last ends june thirtieth terms at aka. mS slash collllege PC Do you hear that Sounds like breakfast is ready. Because Quakers coming in hot with morning nutrition one hundred percent whole grain oats and a good source of fiber to fuel the rhythm of your morning and kick startart your day. And that sounds absolutely delicious. Fuel to start whatever's next. Quaker, official sponsor of FIFA World Cup twenty six And we're live from the living room as Doug eyes up the match they spread. He's reaching for the buffuffalo wing. Perfect. Hang on, what's this? Oh, he's good for a Cat of Pepsi too. Inredible N to finish Sensational combination. Look at the delight on his face. There's no doubt about it. He just tastes better. Match days deserve Pepsi. Food deserves Pepsi. Grab a pack of Pepsi Zero Sugar for today's match It's poetry in motion . There's another thing that you have mentioned, which I think is interestingiven when you were talking about like being cool and about pulp and stuff like that. is there's this kind of seminal moment in your book where you where it's own closees D day at school and it's ninety six and it's about that time And so you decide that you're going to dress how you want to dress. And basically what always happens in those in those situations is the football kids wear their fo they just wear they just wear a tracksuit.ike it's still standard now. That's exactly what they do. But this is what you wore You wore a tie eyed long sleeve metallica t shirt showcasing numerous skull motifs. Lots of skulls. Yeah. Soid leather brahless, but this is the killer A studded leather dog collar. Yeah. That is amazing. And it all became it all started because you wanted to wear an arm band like Freddie Mercury and Liveid and then that span out from that So It live aid Freddy's got a little black Leather I guess you call it a bracelet, but it's on his bicep. And it's one of those ones with the little sort of square squat pyramid metal bits on. And on non uniform day I was fourteen and I wanted one of those So I went to the shop that sold that sort of thing. The head shop. they're always the head shop th. And it had loads of other stuff. It had like guns and Rses t shirts and metallica t shirts and those sort of weird chains that you used to keep your wallet attached to your belt for no reason whatsoever. It's like Rodie's keys and it's just your rubbish wallet and there were it was always those wallets that were made out of like kind of notot crimpling, but that kind of trerm and they folded over and sl together. Velcro animal wallets they would have been And they probably sold bongs and lighters and the odd like pewter dragon. And I just thought That's the closest thing I can get to Freddie. So this had not the little square bits, but like little actual studs Yeah And the next is one that you could put around your neck. And then I saw this T shirt with loads of skulls on, I thought You know, like G Kan, I'm putting together look It's quite a strong. I mean, how old are you then? Fourteen Adam. So I would imagine like just jeans and shoes Yeah school shs And I get on the school bus I've got the dog collar around my neck Armlets No the armle is on my wrist because The long sleeves would have obscured it One on each wrist, I think. and It was like I can't describe It was nuts Everyone went ballistic And It just immediately began and a part of me was expecting some sort of reaction. Part of me probably wanted some kind of reaction, but I was thinking, I was sat down I was like I think we might have made a bit of an error here And I got into school And I think I was quite an odd prospect for the teachers because I was very bright. I always Like I was obsessed with w and getting all the commendations and all the certificates. and until GCSE I was quite good across the board. So I was in all the top classes and And then I started smoking and then I turned up to school wearing a leather dog collar and bracelets and a skull metallica top. So I think they were like rolling their eyes like what's What he doing But it was less I think it was less concerning back then when teenagers began to express themselves It's fine. I mean he's found he's doing's k.'s fine. Like I mean, if you did that and you weren't my kid, I would be like, that's fine. I mean you know, you know somewhere in your heart that you're probably going to get a bit of shit for it. Yeah. But the reaction is really strong and that's like people get angry with you. But wasn't Well, we don't know what he's looking at on the interternet and he's in his room on his phone. No not. And what's who's he talking to online or any of that kind of stuff. It's like, well, it's before our eyes. What is going through his head. he's now wearing. So okay We know what we're dealing with got so bad break time, the first break was horrible. At lunchtime, I actually stayed in B basasically locked myself in the DT room. Oh my God to work on my DT project on my own because I was getting so much shit. I Did you keep the color on? Yeah? I took it off in DT because of the belt sander. And I didn't I didn't want it could have get caught in the mechanism. In fact, I think the teacher said you can come in here and I'll make sure no one comes in, but you need to take that off when you're using the belt sand. Yeah. And you can put it on again for going out into the corridor and like getting dog's abuse, but not when you're using the sander. I remember between lesson I was on the phone ononic had a phone card And there's like a pay phone and I was I think calling my mum to arrange her to pick me up after school and this girl put her hand on the receiver and said A you raverr, jitter or a bender or what And I was like, o, I'm used to being called gay. This I am just used to. What's a raver What's a jitter? So I don't know how to answer you because I don't know what two of the terms are you've used But it turns out Jito is a slightly offensive term or slightly derogatory term for an indndie girl or an indndie boy. So maybe you were a jitter? I think I was experimenting with jitter motifs. You're on the borderline of Jitterdter. But weirdly, it wasn't for quite a while until I got into the sort of music people would have worn those the fans of would have worn those clothes But I just liked them and and then afterwards when I went to sixth form, you know, I to start having painted nails, I would I've gotten big into my velvet jackets, wore a fur coat for a while.' goodill a cat weed on it, Mum that' good I was a very flamboyant introvert And that was like It was Freddie. It really was like Yeah. The man I had studied most more than my dad becausecause he was gone when I was six was the All everything every documentary said about Freddie, he's the world's biggest extrovert when he's on stage in front of a hundred thousand people And off stage he's shy like a cat. And that was like my I guess my blueprint for a man. Yeah. like Fuck you if you don't like the clothes I wear, but if you meet me in my my sh and ask me too much, I'll be very coy. Yeah, and I'm not quite sure about it. But it's also like I mean, there's two things about that isn't there? There One if you wear those clothes, it's simultaneously, you get attention and it tells everyone to fuck off at the same time, doesn't it? I mean that's kind of deal obvious. It's like quite confrontational, especially when you're young. I don't think it is so much when you're older because it's just you're older, but when you're young, there's something quite confrontation about it But also if you allly it to not just Freddy, but to Pulp. If you think about misshapes, like misshapes is saying, okay We're outsiders. We are the kind of inverted color of the Wimps. but But's like it's literally just put your hands up. It's a raid. like it's quite an aggressive song, isn't it? It's It says we want your homes. We want your lives. Yeah yeah. We want the things you won't allows We won't use guns, we won't use bombs. we use the one thing we've got more of which are our minds. Yeah. So it's like the same thing Isn't it? Yeah, it's actually a sort of It's declaring war. Yeah as she wear with your dark collor Pm is They would have kicked the shit out of us. That's the main problem, isn't it? It'sre We're using our mind.! Oh God, I'm bleeding out. I'm trying to use my mind a bit off It didn't really work. It's a great idea, but never mind. I mean, I remember once a kid coming out to me And saying here, Robins, you wantan to slap? And I said, No, I'm not that kinky and he just put knocked me out It's like yeah, you got your word in, but you are now sliding down the wall outside humanities. Your mind was great. You made the joke, but yeah sorry So the interesting thing is, obviously, you discovered quQeen and you spend quite a lot of time researching quQeen and getting into queen But you also, as people do Because you're right, we're not just of that era You discover lots of other things. So you discover Zapper, the band, Lou Reed, Captain Beeathhart I mean, all of which I have to say I don't know. like no, I do likely read. I quite like the band, I notund of two sorry. But like, you know, that you discover those at the same T while you're discovering kind of contemporary nineties music, which is the way of everyone, isn't it? You discover all sorts of things. you're still reeling from the fact that you don't like Zpp you don't like Zapper and C befart Sorry I am who I am, John. That's a problem for me. I am who I am. Most peoplet den on it. donon't I think what happened was that Qeen via Brian May and Guitars probably got me buying copies of magazines he was on the front cover of or they were on And that then led me to other bits. My mum's friend Tape that I really liked. It was a little compilation of bits of Lou Reed and Leonard Cohen, and I remember going to her house when she wasn't there She said the spare key, takeake it through the letter box It's on a little string. Let yourself in and you can record the tape, you can copy it So I sat in her living room. being this tape and it had So long, Marianne, that's no way to say goodbye it also had One of Lou Reed's most challenging songs which is called temporary thing Okay And that's from I think the blue mask, which is incredible album. And what happened was via that, I got to an album called Rock and Roll Animal by Lou Reed, which was Post transransformer He sort of you know, one of the great reinventors like David Bowie He got this whole new band together and it was a really quite glam and that album for like a guitar prog rock fan is amazing playing it when I would have been sixteen in the drama studio And this boy Joe who I'm still in contact with to this day about all things Zapper. said, if you like that, you should listen to Frank Zapper And he took a cassette out of his bag and put it on played a guitar solo It's been probably only thirteen minutes long And was I don't know really how to describe what happened to my cells when I first heard Frank Zapper playing the guitar And through Frank Zapper, I discovered Captain Beehart, a guy, a friend at a party justust talking all about Frank apper. I like, have you listened to this album, have youen everyveryone's going no And then my friend Alex said You should try Shiny Beast by Captain Befer And he put shiny beast on It's just an embarrassment of riches. just like It's so weird now with Spotify throwing like a thousand different tracks at you every day to have the gift of Lou Reid, Frank Zapper and Captain Beeifart in the space of probably the same three months. and to just be able to dive into those back catalogs which I'm still diving into now and The album that really hooked me with Zapper is called Bongo Fury. That's the live tour he did with Captain Beefart when he was trying to to be far out. They're releasing that tomorrow With six CD's of unheard material. Oh my God, that's like the rest of your life, Job. I know. another sixty Zpper albums to do this with? Oh my God. So I can just never It's like a kind of it's like a kind of entering into a portal, isn't it? You've got a whole other world to go into. And compare that with Queen who One of the issues they have is there's no secret stuff Yes all There's no There's no like ot that much demo y stuff. There's no unreleased tracks, whereas Frank Zapper recorded and toured sixteen hours a day. you know, thirty six odd cruelly short years, but he has got Tens of thousands of miles of tape. You're just slightly doing the heading I can't imagine anything worse, but I'm really happy for you. Thank Thank you. I'm so happy. So those musicians I associate in a weird way with the nineties. Yeah, because that's when you find them. So you know is my nineties. It's also interesting because you said like, you know, sometimes you would look at like, say, quQueen because they're on the cover of a magazine. and obviously in the nineties there were magazines like the ones that I worked for, which like seelect in the face and they were off their time. But then there was also that was the time when things started like moojo and uncut. Classic rock. Classic rock. And those kind of things were like milking the CD market, I suppose really, or the people who were replacing their records with CD's who were really concerned about having a great high fi Yeah ye you know sitting and positioning the Like the speakers in special places you know, and that kind of stuff. And and that still exists because it's a person. you know,'s like that person will always exist. They want to hear music in the correct way, they want to go into it and they want to explore absolutely everything there ever has been about that thing And that I think, I do think kind of started around that time with the magazines, it was a way for people to discover And I think also people learning instruments. Yeah You can get your copy of Basist magazine And on the front cover, they've got all the backing tracks for the tab that is in the magazine you now don't have to go and to find where the nearest base teacher is It was like, I can pick an electric guitar and they've got this thing called Tab which isn't music notation And on the front cover is my backing. so I'm aware I'm a ninety yeah I'm a guitarist or a bass or whatever, yeah. And I can learn about all of the nerdy stuff about pedals and what have you, and there's a drummer one and there's a bass one and there's probably I don't know, violin one or whatever So that was your way into like how to play the twenty cllassic rock Riffts. So now you're like, okay, so now I'm into dire straits ' I'm learning how to play of st. Absolutely everything I don't like, you have to stop I then pump c It's all too much for me. Okay, look, let's talk about Because while we're talking about that, we're talking about magazines and magazines, obviously, at that time, they were really successful and they had money and they were trying to entice you to buy things. And one of the ways they would do this would be by putting free things on the front. So you might get a free blow up, Liam Gallgher as we have here. You might very often get you get singles and then you get a CD And you got the CD, which I have listened to. at the end of the nineties on the NME and it's called the NME annual Probe which I just hate. It's annual probe two. There is an annual probe one. Yeah. You can buy this on eBay. Annual probe one is three pounds thirty one. An annual probe two is more expensive but obviously better. four pounds ninety one. Okay. Okay. I've listened to this. There are some like I have to say What I like about it is what I liked about seelect and magazines is it's quite broad. So there's like literally you know, kind of conscious hip hop on there because there's a Jurassic five. There's a kind of actually quite rubbish acid track on there towards the end But this like interesting Scottish N sare but and there's Alternative American sounds. that's kind of mostly what it is, I would say. But it's quite varied and actually there are some really good songs on there. Having thought I didn't think I would like them. I really like the Afrghan Whish song. I think that's kind of amazing. And there's this really weird one called Quizy I never want to see you again? Yeah, that's so good. I don't know whether there's in Qasi or quasar Yeah, or quasi, yeah it might be quasi, but that like starts off one way and then it goes the way that you would maybe want it to go. It goes kind of madly proroggy. Yeah. And it's quly completely unexpected. And there's Elliot Smith. Yeah, there's Elliot Sith There'sercury Rev. Yeah, Mercury Rev. that album Deserter songs was such a big part of the nineties Yeah And so a lot of my contemporary nineties stuff is quite late nineties would be sort of ninety, seven, eighty nine But there's also a track by God Speedy Black Emperor on that. Yeah. I think is it the last track? It's the last one? yeah. It's got a deues and that's off F sharp A sharp infinity. And it's like a story It's like it's What's interesting about's why I said that geese thing is' like basically A lot of these tracks aren't conventional pop. they are an atmosphere where somebody's doing something with it. So the arbstp trap is like that, and that God spepeed you Black Emperor traack is like that. It starts off in it's an atmosphere. It's like filmic sense of dread. It's horrible actually, it's quite scary. The car's on fire. Yeah, it's scary. driver at the wheel. Yeah,. The sew is all running with the blood of a thousand lonely suicides. And a cold wind blows. It's not It's like pul. It's not pulp. I tell you what all those songs are as a collection is cool I suppose so yeah. That's cool, cool There're also the melodies. And a lot of them are brilliant. and When I heard that Godspeed track, I know this is just going to sound like me saying when I heard then blah blah, blah, I'd never heard anything like it. I'd never heard anything like that. Like Frank Zapper, it was a bit like L Reed. you know. A lot of stuff was a bit like Queen and pulp weren't a million miles away from the sound The sound of God's spepeed was like I've just You know, I've come out of a bunker five days after the atomic bomb went And I'm wandering around Yeah and there'. There's like a classical orchestra playing in the woods. And there's a there's the first Nation American Indian standing on a hill doing a monologue and Then I got the Slow riot for New Zero Canada EP. first track on that Moya which is I think maybe eleven minute long instrumental and To this day, I've never heard anything like that. It's really funny because I think that like What do you want your music to do? Because I think People want different things. And one of the things that you wrote in your book which is what you wanted alcohol to do, which is to do with It's to do with just taking you somewhere else, taking you out of your head, that kind of thing. And that is that feeling is quite strong in music. That's very strong in music for me. I want music to take me out of who I am and somewhere else. And that's what you're talking about with all of these. God speed you black emperor thing is Like it's hard to call it, it's not even rock. You can't call it pop. you can't call it rock. It's just weird experimental stuff that's doing an atmosphere. Yeah. But because they look like a rock band, they're called rock Well, I saw them It would have been ninety eight maybe nineteen nine at the fleece in Bristol whichich is quite a small venue. And there's like nine of them on stage. Theyve got two cellists, two drummers, two bassists, two guit image, two everything, two violinists. They must have made no money at all Penand. It is what There is sort of tone is rock Like there is distortion and then there is reverb and there is And they're in a rock venue. They're in a rock venue and they all look like they're in a rock band. they're creating is more like a concerto. Yeah. And I think what I need music I need melody in such it huge spoonfuls. Hence queen. Hence queen. Ccause you just say youug You can say you hate them and they're Pantomime and they played Sun City and you can say all that and I can say, yeah, but they could fucking write a song, right? Yeah. And you can't say they couldn't. No, no, no no.' it's very rare that you can find somebody that doesn't like one queen travel. Yeah, or know twenty of them whether they like them or not and with Frank Zapper What I find amazing is that in these very complex time structures are just the most beautiful Dream like melodies And with Gods speed, These melodies are being just repeated almost in a loop Five, six, seven, eight minutes and then whole orchestra. it's like the whole orchestra and the audience stand up And this just begins to cascade around you And I remember seeing them in Trunity Center in Brol, think they were supported by Sigo Ross. Yeah. And you have been when you come out of that, venue having listened to those two bands, you've been to another planet. You've been to another place entirely. And I definitely That's what I wanted alcohol to do. I wanted to transcend Yeah I wanted to both switch my brain off and go to heaven. Is that too much to ask? That too much to ask And I guess that's what I'm getting from Godspeed Ex P peopleople get from raving. It's the same. people from religion Yeah ye yeah. It's what people get from prayer, from baptism, from preachers like That's why when you touch someone in those videos at the front of the church, they fall over and start to shake They're sort of not there anymore That's what we all want not's what I want from I emailed the guy from Godspeed. Yeah my hotmail email address. Oh' in nineteen ninety eight And he replied, Ephraim. Wow, the main guy That's the nineties four you so. few people had email. Yeah. What did you say? I think you're great. I wish I could remember I maybe asked if they were coming to play in the UK just said, I love I love dead fllag please Or I may be asked if Id tell you what, I bet I asked if they had any job opportunities at their record label. I would have been desperate to do work experience. 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Well I guess anyone listening to a podcast about the nineties will have had a relationship with alcohol in some way. It's very interesting that because it's like absolutely promoted throughout the whole of the night as is getting out of your head in any way. In a way that in thirty years time, if there's a podcast about the twenty twenties, It's not going It's gonna be why is everyone in the gym? Yeah, totally. Why is everyone drinking smoothies? Why is everyone like Matchaatch It's going be the matcha years. But the nineties was a very, very boozey time it's when I discovered alcohol, it would have necessarily been my first drink because I hadn't I had encounters with alcohol quite early on But it was when my obsession with alcohol began to sort of take root in a very nascent sort of embryonic way And then in the two thousands and the two ten s I sort of began drinking very dramatically and on and offten different ways over the years. And I guess in thirst book I've written I'm trying to find out if I can I'm trying to find out what alcohol is what it means That's a big it's a big one. Yeah. as opposed to just telling a story of like Here's my life and I used to drink and hear all the problems I had and then I stopped and now I'm running a marathon. whichich is the s thumbs up and you can do it too and my skins better and it was worth it. Yeah, I've got so much more time, which is whichich is a version of that story But I sort of really wanted to see if I could articulate a few things that I had struggled to articulate over the years which is what does alcohol mean Why did it mean so much to me Why was it so hard to stop And why is life so difficult without it and I think I am working that out as I'm writing And there are a few moments in the book you know, amongst stories about getting into comedy and falling up with Freddiey Mercury and non uniform Day and and you know, relationships and Relationships ending There are moments where I've been able to articulate what alcohol meant to me, what it means to me and what it was doing for me and what it was doing to me. Yeah So I'm sort of pleased that I was able to Do what I set out to do because it's a It's a complicated thing. It's doing a lot at once you know we would just be talking there about transcending whilst also turning your brain off or turning your thoughts off or relaxing you, making you comfortable around people. But it's also making you anxious and ashamed and Fueling the need for it And secretive And secretive, yeah And yet because of whatever sort of accident and coincidence we have this potent. power in the shop next door. and at school Yeah and kind of promoted towards it. Yeah Yeah. And everything else is don't take this, donon't take that, that's illegal. You'll get in trouble if you have this, that can kill you Whereas when I was growing up, no one was warning us about alcohol. It's also, I think partly, especially in the nineties as an idea And I think it's still now that this is what we're good at. It's like a national thing. We're good at that. Yeah We' good at taking the piss and drinking. These are our talents Yeah so you know, celebrate it. But I do think the ninetightist was particularly celebratory Boozy time. I mean, I'm certainly not saying that teenagers don't drink now, they certainly do. and they've got particular alcohol that is aimed at them and everything and vapes. The celebratory aspect of booze was really, really prevalent in the nineties, I think. It was really like, this is great. We're going to have a really brilliant time. Yeah. and also why would we not have our brilliant time drunk And I'm not particularly well qualified to talk to this, but that slightly problematic idea of the Ladette. So it's like somehow co operating sort of female empowerment into a very maleided. You basically just had to become like a bloke but sit and able to take a joke. Yeah. And also inebriated. Yeah. And so like the bloat was drunk, obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So everyone od. Everyone's hammered Yeah and You know You don't have to be an alcoholic for really bad stuff to happen when you're really, really hammered all the time, you know But that was it. It was like, cool. Everyone was hammered at the Brits. Everyone was drunk when they were giving speeches. Everyone was drunk on TFI Friday. Like wouldn't you? I mean? Why wouldn't you? But you know, Thumbs up for the nineties. Yeah. Thumbs up for the nineties So at Talk ninetighties to Me, we have a Talk ninetighties to mee Spotify playlist because we do love music, as you can tell as we have talked about music for an hour. Which track would you like to add John? and you have I didn't tell you about this because I forgot and now you're stressed, I'm really sorry about it. This is a real this is tricky. Yeah. and you see I should have warned you. It's got to be something off that NME album and it can't be like a nineteen seventy four Frank Appersound. No, it's got to be nress. Look, I can read so that album G Mercury Re Endery. Elliott Smith pictures of me Abstract piglet, that is a great song. G great track. Oh I mean, it's not a song, but it's Amazing I think because it's the opening track, is there any Mercury Rov on your playlist? No, I'll go endlessly Mercury Rov. Perfect and everyone can look up the and Emmy annual Volume two and it's got someone flicking the bird on the front. because they're really wild. The go spepeed were on the front of Eemy and Mogway and I had both those copies It was cool. Yeah, it was a shift. was a shift, there was a shift after Brit pop into that kind of sound and then the strokes came along and then everything changed. But it totally prepared them for the strokes, I think The strokes is like that times Bit pop. Yeah, yeah yeah. because there's five and they're all really good looking you can choose. and so they look like pop stars And they make music that is like that but more poppy Perfect Okay that was T Nights to me, featuring the brilliant John Robins who is of course available every week on the Ellison John S showow as well as hosting How Do you Cope And he has written this great book, Thirst, you're doing live shows to promote it, right? How can people get tickets? Can they get tickets are they all sold out? No So I think the tickets have sold out for the live sort of Q and A book tour But the book is available from wherever you get books. It's called Thirst twwelve Drinks that Changeed My life. It's really, really good. I really recommend it. It's great Okay. if you join our patreon, not only will you get the chance to buy some very cute merch such as ta nineties to me mugs, long sleeve t shirts, bucket hats No dog collars. You will also get some special extra episodes about weird nineties and you might become our tau nineties king or queen for a week.