Career Advice and Final Thoughts

Hello, I'm John Kennedy and joining me for this episode of Tate Notes are Miles Smith and producer Peter Fenn to talk about how they wrote, recorded, and produced the album My Mess, My Heart , My Life. Recently, I took a day trip down to Hove down on the south coast of England to meet up with Miles Smith and Peter Fenn at Salvation Studios, one of the studios where Miles often does a lot of his recording. Peter had flown in from LA for some UK writing sessions as well, so we were really lucky to have him there too. And what a pair they make. The chemistry between Miles and Peter is obvious from the moment that they sit down together, you can hear how much they've enjoyed making music with each other over the years and that sense of spontaneity and excitement runs right through this album I think. And that chemistry makes its way into the conversation too as we dig into some of Miles's biggest songs , including Stargazing, yes, Stargazing, the global smash hit. So pleased that Miles is up for looking at that and telling us how he created it. If you'd like to watch our conversation, the full video episode is available to see on the Take Notes Patreon page, as well as some exciting extras that aren't in the audio podcast. The full video episode also includes a look into Peter's logic sessions as he's breaking down the tracks. There's a lot to see, so head over to Patreon. com forward slash take notes to check that out. Thank you as well to our partners at Taipit for supporting the show, as well as their flagship app, Tapeit, the recording app made specifically for musicians. They have also released a brand new DNo pluisergin, the Tape It Denoiser. It does an amazing job of removing background noise while keeping your recording sounding completely natural. It's also half price. So to find out more, head over to Tape Dot it forward slash denoiser. But now without further ado, let's get started . Miles Smith is a singer songwriter from Luton in the UK. As a teenager, Miles performed at local open mic nights before focusing on building a following on TikTok through cover songs. Going on to release a few singles, the approach proved successful, leading to a record deal with Sony in twenty twenty three. In twenty twenty four, Miles released the single Stargazing. The track was a viral hit and has been streamed over one billion times globally. His success continued with the release of the follow up single, Nice to meet you. This momentum helped establish Miles as one of the UK's most promising new artists, and in twenty twenty four, he was named BBC Introducing Artist of the Year and won the Brit Rising Star Award. He also's only the second artist after Louis Capaldi to sell out the O two Arena in London before releasing a debut album. My Mess My Heart, My Life, his debut, arrived in june twenty twenty six, working alongside longtime collaborator Peter, Fenn . Peter Fenn is a Los Angeles based songwriter and producer. Peter's career in music began at age eighteen after picking up a guitar during a summer break. Since then, and having dedicated countless hours to honing his craft, he has worked with a wide range of artists across pop, rap and alternative music, including Louis Capaldi, Levi, Meghan The Stallion, Fred Again, and many more. A consistent collaborator with Miles, Peter has most recently taken on co writing and production duties for My Mess, My Heart, My Life. Today, I'm at Salvation Studios, and I'm joined by Miles and Peter. And what better way to start than by hearing something from the album This is Heaven . Is the sun of your heart when you close to my body and all I could say is beautiful ? Iss to eat love me when this door around or I finally found what I'm looking for we have is magic like firefly started to go . Here are your arms and nine hundred the shining light is just home and tied into the eye light heaven is sources and I need you to let me edit I pray just hopefully tied into the after no es It is Heaven by Miles Smith from the album My Mess, My Heart, My Life, and I'm very pleased to say that I'm sat here with Miles Smith. Hello, Miles. Hello. Peter Fenn. Hello , Peter. How are we doing? And we're in Salvation Studios in Hove Bury near Brighton, which you recorded some of the album, I think. Yeah, yeah, we did a lot of the recording here. We didn't manage too much writing here because we sort of like wrote the album literally all over the world, but this was like a good anchor in the recording process for us . So it's great to be here in one of the locations where you created this record. It's very exciting and clearly a place that you have affection for. We love this place. Yeah, probably first time without a beer or a tequila in here. No, no, no It's ginger tea and beaten the award award . So I guess I mean we've got a lot to talk about. Maybe should we dive straight into the music? The first song we're going to look at is Stargazing , the billion streaming world conquering song . So maybe we'll have a blast of the master of that. And we'll find out how are you creating? Let's do it. Whoa ! Time stood still , just like a photograph you made me feel like this will last forever looking in your eye . I see my whole life . They say you know it you know it I don't know Promise now you hold me clothes, don't let me go . Take my heart on blacket Love me to my boss but this time rest ed you were right there all along . You in the soul It is Stargating by Miles Smith , which is now part of the album I Mess My Heart My Life, but originally part of the Minute A Moment EP Yes from twenty twenty four. So it's a couple of years old now . ob Andviously it's conquered the world and it's still conquering I'm sure . How did it start? When and how did you two start working together? Man, where did we start working together? That's the throwback. We started working twenty three three, June of twenty twenty three. How do you remember it? Yeah, I remember. Because I was coming home from a trip with me and Sarah, we were like driving and we had two days together and I was like, yo, I think I'm gonna be late to the session. I'm driving back from Utah and we did the night damn yeah that was a nightmare that was crazy. Yeah no I was at the time like early into like my sort of like co writing so I'd like been in America at this point maybe like six, seven weeks and like I was just with everyone . I think it was like trying to find the magic, trying to find the person that like really understood the music that I was trying to make and I worked with amazing people, but I think Pete was like my last session, right? I was in the US and it was like I was burnt out and I was like, yep, cool, sweet. Let's just do it. And then I got in and I was like, This is my guy . It was immediate. It was immediate. And yeah, I think our first session we wrote a song called My Home , which was like my first song that had traction online not long after a song called Solo, which was like, I think the thing that gave Stargazing the run up that it did and then we did stargazing. So yeah, we basically like shat out an EP that did really good in like the space of a few weeks of knowing each other and then straight into stargazing totally. It's funny because I feel like we both have worked with a lot of people, but I think when you find your person, it's pretty clear. You know, like right away, there was just so much chemistry. There was a lot of like humor and laughter. Like for us, we always have so much fun when we're writing. And I think it's so important to never forget that. And so like it was just laugh s. Yeah, and I think like everyone would know like British humor and American humor is like oil and water sometimes and I found out the hard way. And for the first time being in America, that like sarcasm st doesnick't the same, but when I met Pete and like Pete B and Pete is like a Britain disguise, it was like yeah, it just felt amazing. It was amazing. Yeah. I actually remember after we finished it the next day we went out for beers like a boardwalk with boys and we just like hung on a personal note too. It was just like, oh, I want to hang out with this dude. Yeah, yeah. That's brilliant. And then how did stargazing come about? Yeah, stargazing. So this was like our maybe second or third no maybe like third trip in, I think, of working together because like we'd always make the effort to either Pete would fly to me or I'd fly to him or we'd spend like a couple of weeks together and we were sort of like coming towards the end of like a two week of just we were we were in Malibu and like, you know, I had the bright idea of like I want to wear Malibu 'cause it's amazing and then I got there and I realized like there's no one there. So it's like me and Pete in this massive house because I was like, this is my first time having labeled budgets. So I was like, I'm getting the biggest thing I could find. It's like hot tub, sun, view of the sea. And then very quickly realized no one lives in Malibu. So like we're going insane at this point . It's like we're both just in our like our boxes and like a string. The house is a mess. Just like two bros in house . It's just pulling out our hair just like we gotta make a song. And then yeah, we're like twenty songs in at this point and we write like, you know, the starter star gaze in, and it was just like at the time another song that we wrote and we sort of like pushed to the side and we had our close friend and collaborator Jesse Finck there at the time and I don't think any of us would be lying and I said like that first sort of like cut of it. Any of us thought it would be this massive magical special song. We thought the song was good, but yeah, it wasn't what it is now . And then yeah, not long after me and Pete just went back into the studio and I think like my A and R was right because Joe had messaged Peteak like what,'s going on with this song? And we're like, Damn, let's just like crack it open and see what could happen. And yeah, we played for a while unsuccessfully with it . And then yeah, landed on where it is. Do you have any early versions of it then? Yeah, I have an early version. Can I have one thing on the writing front? It was the last night that we wrote, we just wrote the chorus to Sargazing and we were checking out the next morning and we're like, Hey, we should wake up early and like just write verses to the song. Yeah. So liter weally the morning we checked out the air and we wrote the verses in the pre to the song and we didn't think anything of it. There was actually another song. Remember that song holding on ? We were like, this is the one from the camp. We thought that was the one. And I remember going right back to my apartment afterwards and working on hold on and we were like, dude, this is the one and then we ended up opening up Sargazing in the studio. Yeah. I think the best part of my best my favorite writing memory of that song was like when we were writing the hook like we had to take my heart don't break it, love me to my pones. Oh, it's time I wasted, you were right there all day. Oh yeah, and then it was like, you and like no word like intertwined souls and we were there for like so long like what is that word? And Jesse's like at this point like just broad out like probably drunk too much tequila night before he's like on the sofa like this. He's like what it was just like star gazing . Wow. And like many people were like, Dude Wait, wait, there's something in there . And then we threw it in and it was just like it's pretty fire. So yeah, crazy. The title of the song. It was funny though, 'cause Jesse and I always thought the song was gonna be called all along. Yeah, you were right there all along. And then Miles was like, No, it's called Sargain. Right? Okay, that's probably better . I fault you for that as well. I actually think the first rough I have is called exactly. I think it's called all along. I think the session low key is called all along. Hold on. twenty four . Malibu camp twenty four. It was called All along . Oh my gosh. Isn't that crazy? How early do you have of this song? The earliest I have because we didn't bounce one out at Malibu. Like we didn't have a bounce even when we left the camp. It wasn't until Miles and I just went to the studio a few days later to work on it. And I think the earliest I have is actually called then I called it a ruff of stargazing, but actually in the beginning it was like a totally different vibe in like I'll just play you a quick version of the rough. It was just a picking guitar . Time stood still just like a photography made me feel like this will last forever looking in your eyes I see my whole eyes crazy They say you know it, when you know it, I don't know . Promise that you hold me clothes, don't let me go . So then we got to the goods, but until then, it was just that picking guitar. There was no intro . And like there was honestly so many things that happened after we wrote the song on the production front, that honestly kind of convinced us that it was something special. Yeah. Like the piano drone, for example, bing e that was that was when I became a believer. That was a turning point. Like so I'd phone my best friend and my brother out so we were like all in the room of me and Pete figuring this song out and like you know when the song feels like it has something but like you're not exactly sure what that is it just was lost and then a big thing and it'll probably come up a few times in this meeting . Like Pete has a lot of like just trust me moments and it's like everything about you says don't trust him . But the more we go, the more convinced. And so he's like, no , like dude, what if it's just like din d and I was like I don't get it then he put it into the track, played out through the playback speakers and I was like it felt like oh there's something in this now but it was like, you know , a lot of the time as an artist and producers have crazy ideas and like nine times out of ten like they don't work and that's nothing to do with talent. It's just the process of making music and 'cause I always'm so close to what the production is I love being with Pete as we're doing it's like there's a bit of ego in his like if it's not my idea then what will we be? But I feel like the longer I've worked with Pete, the more I've trusted him, but there's this, there's this weird moment where they're doing something in their ears and you're like, you don't know what they're going to. But like when you see Pete, it's like yes . I grabbed him by the shoulder and I was like, he was like , I've got no headphones on. So I'm just like, okay, I trust . And yeah, it was a turning point. Jon turned the song around totally. I think we just went full steam ahead and we cut so many vocals and we just wanted to get it perfect. What's the setup when you're recording? So at the Malibu Camp, we kind of like we're on a riding trip right now and it's kind of the same. We have a desk kind of like this, and we have a No Menu eighty seven that we cut everything with miles on and we have a little Apollo. We have some speakers and like a bunch of guitars and like a mini controller. So it's pretty bare bones. I feel like we've always felt most comfortable kind of like in a living room setting where it doesn't feel like a lot of pressure in the studio. Like these studios are amazing. We like to come here to finish , but like in the creation stage, it's really nice to feel comfortable. Yeah. So it's just kind of like a pretty barebones situation. I would say and we're not sponsored by Airbnb, but like nine percent of our songs are Airbnb Ed once said something about like rooms have songs in them and like the more they've been used to make songs like the less Songs exist in that room and you know, seems like fantasy, but for me it's like there is something to going somewhere where music hasn't been created and like just being part of it and just seeing what lands and I think that we've always had success just booking random spots totally and bringing a mobile setup with us and you know we've gotten into like a swing of it where it's like we could literally turn anywhere into a studio in like half an hour. Yeah I would also say great idea though the vibe of the ABB's too, it's like we could be having breakfast. There's so many times we've written a song over breakfast. Someone's like cooking eggs and someone's playing the guitar . And then it's like, oh, wait, what was that? And then by the time breakfast is done, you have a song, it feels informal and feel like that's kind of always been our creative process. Yeah, God, I mean , I just love the idea of that. No, you haven't even had breakfast yet. And you got a song on the gut. Yeah. So cool. The best is when like a writer goes to sleep and it's just me and Pete like should we try ? Let's just get more skill s. fifty . And yeah, you pick like it's I think the beauty of like living in with the people that you're writing with is crazy because songs for me it's not a nine to five job. So why should we create them in a nine to five environment? They might come at three AM, they might come slap bang in the middle of the day. It's just like always having somewhere accessible at any time and any place to make music is the best way for us. Really interesting. What more should we hear now? That's kind of the rough. Maybe I'll just start walking through kind of like then. So then we left from the rough and then we go into the studio and we it was funny because kind of like right towards the end of we always knew the chorus was amazing like on the production front, we kind of had built that out. And then Joe Edison and R at RCA, our homie was like, hey, what's up with this song? Like, can we finish this song? We hadn't opened it up. And so then Miles and I got on FaceTime. We do a lot through FaceTime on the production front because I live in LA and he lives in London. And so I just like FaceTime, Miles, like, Hey, let's figure this out. And so we kind of started piecing together like the intro bit. And I think from the beginning, even like from my home and solo, we always have been big on when the song comes on, you want to be able to recognize what tune it is open. And for us, like having a motif is always kind of been our thing. So we started putting together a motif for the song . It just kind of felt like an urgent opening. You know, so like let's see what we have here. We recorded all these live pianos and this is the drone and the piano here . I think there's actually two pianos layered here This is one just like a bass , a bass octave notes , and then the chords on top of it This is a piano at my at my manager's studio at Mega House in LA. Every song. Literally in every song. I don't even know what kind of brand it is. It's just such a vibe. It records amazing. And then this is the drone that kind of changed the game . It's funny because there's no snare drum in this song. It's just four to the floor . And this accents that and c soreat ites a rhythm and urgency in the track. So and then we took the post chorus , which is this just an acapella Which came after the second chorus always, but then when we wanted to make the song more urgent, yeah, we shoved it on the front. Let's put it on the front. It's important to mention we both come from like live backgrounds and we always like approach a song from a sense of like, if you're standing, I don't know, at the front of the O two or you stand at the front of Weembly or even at the front of a pub gig is like , you know those moments where as a fan, the lights were off and you hear that first note. It's like, what do you want to feel? Where do you want to be? I think 'cause you both came from that background, it's like it was pretty obvious to us that like I kept imagining myself standing in front of a venue and I'm like, What would excite people to hear? And that's why our motifs like we put so much pressure on them because we're like what we want people to be like oh it's that song like straight away which is funny though because I feel like every motif we have in the intro or something has come from a post chorus that we repurposed to the beginning of the song . Yeah. Like Miles said, it's just like an urgency thing . So we have the pianos there. There's not much on these pianos. It's like a little bit of compression. I love the UAD sparks plugins. They're like a sweet from UAD that is you don't need an Apollo to run them on. You just need the internet. And ever since I downloaded UAD sparks has been amazing. So we just have some of that on there. A little bit of decapitator on the piano. A favorite plugin. Love the decapitator. And then so we have the pianos there and then we also just put these strums in the intro as well . That's some Pete's Taylor that we use on every song. We use on every song. He has not changed the string in how many years . I bought this guitar in college in twenty eleven. I'd never changed the string. I don't know how it worked. I swear I was just like, please never break. My career's over as soon as a guitar . But on this one, again, I have a bunch of UAD sparks plugins. Honestly, so much of what we do is organic. So like the sour sound is so important. And I use like a pencil mic to soy use mic to do all the acoustic guitars that I love. What is this? And it's one that's a little noise , takes out some of the noise. And then a lexicon, reverb also UAD sparks. But yeah, just together with the intro, we just have the guitar, the piano, and honestly just the vocals do so much. And that was when we were like, okay, we have something engaging in the front. Yeah, yeah. I think what's really good is that between me and Pete, like he's always found a chain to find warmth and it's like it's really hard to build warmth in the environments that we choose to record ing so and it's like it's nuanced what he does on the back end but it makes a big difference you know which I've always found super impressive. Okay, one last thing on the intro actually, there's some reverse energy here so this is a reverse piano going right into the verse. It just creates this like suction and then there's also a reverse crash . And those I feel like make a big difference 'cause you're like, okay, where are we going? And then it just goes to a guitar and vocal . Time stood still just like a photograph you made me feel like this will last forever looking in your eye I see my whole life . I will just say I feel like for Miles when I met him , he was doing all of these like freestyles and stuff on TikTok and it was just like him in an acoustic guitar. So for me as a producer when we started working together, I was like, there's so much magic in that. He has such an amazing tone and voice that to me it's like the production is it's never like, oh look at this production. It's like supporting the song with miles on it. So even this verse, how long is this verse? It's like fifteen seconds just acoustic guitar in him. But the guitar is like a rhythmic . It's giving a lot of energy. Yeah, you know, we recorded these at the Airbnb too . And I remember just being like the recording wasn't perf ect, but the vibe was so right. I tried to record these guitars, but it was just it was just the way it was. So that was just the verse, just that and then we knew we wanted it to build. So in the pre chorus the kick drum , the classic mouse here the floor . That's my just trust me moment . And then we get to Premiere. How about for the floor . So yeah, we just have a classic fort of the floor in the pre chorus. Not even a big kick drum. There's nothing on this kick drum, I don't think. There's literally nothing on this. It's just a great sound and so again I feel like this song is actually pretty minimal. Yeah. It's the vocals, the guitars, and then we bring in the pianos and the stats are huge. Another piano there in the pre chorus strong. Is it the same kick drum across the whole? No, there's actually different. So this pre has a certain kick drum and then we add some more like a thicker kick in the chorus . Like a more stadium kick. You know what I mean? And every chorus in this song is actually different. Yeah. So the first chorus drops out, the second chorus is full on and then the last chorus is like stripped down. That's what we do on all songs out. It's always trying to fight like instead of just copying pacing choruses, how can we make each one feel special? Yeah, I think as a listener it can get super repetitive to have the exact same chorus so it's like how do we make each one have their own life and do different things to serve the song? Because you want the melodies to repeat, you want the words to repeat in the choruses, but like if you can make it feel a little different with the production, we always try to kind of lean that way. This is a funny little vibe. So before the chorus we have these haze, these classic haze holds clothes, don't let me go . And it was funny 'cause his brother's in the room. My manager, Haley is like on the couch. There was usually this isn't the way, but like usually there was a bunch of people just kind of like hanging out over finishing the song. And then I just turn around Tay's brother and my manager I'm like, Hey, you guys want to do some haze on this channel? And this is then one of Hayes a performance . This is our group Hayes . Yeah Yeah . So it's fun like now on the credits you can see like his brother and my manager are like on the performance credits which is really fun . If you let Pete do a one, two, three or eight of the sum, he will do it. That's like kick in the pre is Pete Garden. How about one, two, three, or hey, just like about energy games? I'm talking about my dad leaving. I don't eat an eight Anyway, so after the haze we drop into chorus one, no kick drum and the piano drone comes in for the first real time . Take my heart going bracket Luck y to my bones of time I rested , you were right there all alone. That's also the first time. have We a couple new elements for the first time. So we also did a bunch of live claps with the gang that were in the room a layer with some sample claps. So there's a ton of claps here. Like you can see all of all of these claps are making up each clap. These are just how many claps do you think Let's see two, four , six , eight , nine live claps. But then you also gotta times it by the eight people in the room. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Wow. So and then eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen clap tracks. Which is like, you know, sometimes like not all of them are very loud though. And like for the organicness of it, we want like the feeling of the room to be involved. And it feels like a live show, you know? So the claps come in on the one , which give a ton of energy, that's a new element and then the piano drones. So I'll just play the claps and the piano . They're like panned randomly to make it feel in the room as well. One hundred percent. So this is So this is Chorus one. We have the piano drone . We have a low piano with a clap set Huge clubs, not a lot going on again . And we have two, we have two bases. We love a subbase, like under a live free claw. Every time we're like in the throws, we're just like, What if we put a just put a swim ? So this is the sub base. It's just a serum thing that I love. It's just called base subway with a little bit of a kick start just to give it a little bit of the pulsingness. This feels like we sidechain almost every sub that we have almost especially since we do four to the floor in the song. It's just now it's like a pulsing base. This is just a sub . This really helps like in the live makes it feel huge. So we have the sub bass just doing like a sustained quarter note . That's why you're not sidechaining your subs. What are you doing? It's so important man because it brings so much movement from something that's usually so static. One hundred percent. And the movement is what makes this song 'cause it's like even if you just sat on your own listening to it, it's like you can't help but nod along and even though you don't hear it, you feel it. And I think that's one hundred percent. A lot of what you do, it's like not heard, it's felt and it felt really strange. I feel like Dan Nigro has done a really good job of that where like sometimes the productions are grander but everything kind of just feels like it fits and it's not doing too much like kind of getting out of the way. And so we have this sub bass, but we also have a live bass doing eighth notes . And this is literally just there's only a little bit of compression. There's this preset called bass squeeze that I love on the UADark Ssp e leXven seventy six compressor. So the bass, the live bass and the sub bass are doing this . We have the piano now . We have our epic drone and we have the clops. That's all that's going on and the strums . And then after that we were like, okay, we wanted to build after the first part of us. And then we have a proper four to the floor going here and this all sounds completely produced and mixed. Are you doing that as you go as I go? Yeah. It's funny. Early on the first EP I like mixing the first EP . And I feel like for me as a producer, I want to hear it the way I hear it in my head. So along the way I'm always mixing. And like even on my masterbus, maybe this is getting too nerdy, but on the master bus, I have a Hitsville EQ master chain and the God particle and there's this preset that just says mix just sounds better . And it literally does just sound better. I honestly like is that your settings? That's all this is a preset, but then I tweak it a little bit. Right, you know? Like I tweak some of the highs, I tweak some of the mids . And as I'm going, I like to love put this master chain on because a lot of that ends up going into the mix, printing it in the mix. Like I'll turn off a little bit of the limiter on the god particle and then I'll keep the mix this preset right here. So I'm trying to mix as I go. Yeah . And what did you know what that actually does? Can I play it AB? Yeah, that would be great . Take my This is no It's Billy Cute Master master and that's with it on this here again . This is off this is off it honestly makes it a little bit brighter. Yeah . And it takes each band of frequency and does a little bit on each of them . You know? So yeah, I always want to leave. I'm a big day bounce person. Like if we work on something for the day, I'm going to send it to you when we're done. And I want you to play it in your card and I want it to sound good. Yeah. So we're just mixing as we go . And then and then so after that first half of the chorus, then we bring back the rhythmic guitars Okay, so then there's a lot more guitars happening. When the chorus comes in and everything starts really rocking, we have a rhythmic guitar from the verse and two is playing the guitars? I'm playing the guitars. So we have the picking guitars and the rhythm guitars and then we have four strums just to make it feel huge . A hundred percent. And then what is this guy? Let's see . Oh yeah, these are more so there's like ten guitars at this point . Honestly, when they're all layered together, it kind of feels like a wall of sound with the guitars . And since there's not a lot else going on in the production, it's kind of nice to feel like, wow, there's just a bunch of people on stage like jamming to the song. Yeah, definitely . So that's kind of what happens in the second half of the course. Let's see what else I'll just mute the instrumental . We have a big swell crash into these, which has kind of become a part of like a big part of the song . So we have this little transition moment. We do. This is thing I've been using for so many years . It's like an orchestral swoosh. I just have labeled it now a transition , but it honestly does it does a thing that I just want to happen, which is like, here's the chorus, we're getting to it . And with what's that created by it? This I don't even I don't even know where I got this. He definitely must have ripped off splash. Yo, I for sure. I heard he sure got it off splash. What you want, but just a real tape note. So start lying. I love spice. I'm not gonna hate it. I love it. I hate it. It's like we do find him find his stereo and splice is maybe the worst part of my life. Do you like this one? No, it's funny. Now we do it. Now with the miles rest , we've done so much together, I've like curated the sounds that I like and keep in a folder. And this just happened to be one of I use this on solo too. Yeah, you did The same thing. So I've been pretty common though we've kept so many elements of songs we've done. One hundred percent over. It sounds wise. Even this bass , this is a one shot bass that I love . It's called the dip bass, also a splice one shot. The transient on this bass just does something for me. Like with the kick drums that we got in the world that we're in, this specific bass just kind like of punches through. So there's a few things that we try to keep consistent in the world, especially like in its album time. There's a lot of through lines, even like on the processing of the vocals and master chains. Even the instrument and like the choice on not to play on records because like yeah, I play guitar competently. Definitely . There's like it's so strange like Pete plays the guitar in a way that I prefer to hear on the records. There's been so many times I've recorded a part and people play the same part but it, might just be his vo icings might be different or whatever it is and it's like his become a part of me if that makes sense. And so yeah, it's been really awesome to like let my ego go and go I could play all of these parts and just go out totally the way in which he plays is every I think every guitarist like has their own signature to how they play but I just prefer how his sounds on record. Yeah. And obviously come to terms with that but, that has freed you up so you're even more relaxed. Oh, it's it's amazing though the best feeling because you know, there are times where we have more complicated parts and songs or things that need to be cut on three or four different mics to get the right sound and sit in there going again it's like so freeing because when I'm in the vocal booth it's the exact same piece again so when we switch roles I'm just like again I think that Miles loves role now he's like do one more day . One more , take out the bottom of me on this one. No, it is true because Miles is an amazing musician, so he can play all his parts, but like now we're just in a flow and I think that's another thing, honestly like, with the trust between an artist and a producer, just like having that, you know , rapport of being like, No, you can do this. And it's fine. There's like no ego in the room. We're just like trying to make the best on possible. And I think you work towards that. Yeah. And where we on' FreaceTime so much and we're on the road, it's like I'll literally be on sound movers which is based platform I could hear live what he's doing and in the door that we're using and have him on FaceTime and it's just like I can't record a good, I don't know, guitar take on a bus in the middle of Ohio. Yeah. So it's like I'm just with Pete going through it. So it's like, it's super important, whether we're together or apart, it's like we're always in the studio together somehow. Which is amazing. That's how like the first records we ever did were made like my home and solo. I remember just like hopping on FaceTime for a long time and figuring it out. That's why we love this studio. Like yeah I'll cook vocals here and people be at home and we'll just cut all day long and then you know a we great got guy named who shadow Jake being on a lot of the tracks and you know just work so fluidly around the world . Yeah there was another thing here. Let's see okay so this is the bigger stadium kick that we layered in the chorus just like massive face massive kit obnoxious kit mixed with the one in the pre and this is the real sauce right here. This is like I record most of the shakers and tambourines live with these two that I have. Every song. Almost every song, they just record so perfectly. This is the shaker take . So with a kick drum and then a tambourine loop . The tambourine just gives the kick so much transient. And again, let's see what I have on these. Let me just this is a capital plugin that I absolutely love U aAD sparks capital Chambers plug in . Just a little bit of reverb on there so it feels like there's some room to it and some legs with the shaker Now we're just like rocking and rolling. There's not a lot going on there. We actually layered a snare two on the floor to the floor . So with the massive just the transient again. The transients are so important. Sometimes kick jumps can get lost in the mix if there's not like the attack on it. And I feel like the tambourine, the shaker and the snare on the floor to the floor as well just kind of like pokes through more. So that's pretty much all that's going on in the chorus. Again, there's not a ton. It's like, oh , I will let's go into the vocals real quick because I feel like the first day we ever met, we were like, Yo, Miles, what if you try like stepping away from the mic? Oh cool in the miles called Miles sauce where it's like we already have a lead and we have doubles where he's like this with the mic like a normal normal take. And then we have these miles sauces where he moves around the mic and like shouts it more and in this song so here's a lead because we do what do we do do? We lead, we do double then we do a left right pan and then we'll do it then we'll do the milestone however many it takes to get it right. I feel like in this song we chose the musical parts we wanted and then doubled down on them like. So with the vocal for example, this is the lead take my heart on bracket. Amazing . Amazing . And then the doubles coming in this time I've rest ing. and Left right ? You were right there . Now I'm gonna bring the mile sauces. You I that gives so much of the sauce. So like how many miles sauces do we have on this one? There's four where he's just screaming. I actually have these are all of my chains that I that I save when I like them and I have a mile sauce chain . The first day we ever met . It's called the Miles Strong Background vocals. And it's honestly just decapitator eleven seventy six and Valhalla. Is it possible to hear that dry? Yes, absolutely absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah . God bless you. It is. God bless . That's actually it. There's not usually I'll have like plug ins on the individual vocal tracks, but this is completely dry. Like my hall don't brick it. You can hear it like the room. Love me to my ball . And then this is this is you keep it in for reality buds. It perfections perfection . This is with the sauce. Again, I'm like, I'm twinking more. That should get better. To be fair , that's a really hard note. That's a high that's a high job and you smashed it. I'm just slamming the drive here on the decapitator and so this is now wet . Just feels like Also, your voice just has like a deep kind of character to it. And so distorting his vocals on the mile sauces are huge. Let's see, we also have low dubs here. Egg Mile Don't get down there. He gets I think he has a three octave range. I do. He do. Yeah, yeah . So all the vocals together seem huge. So if I take out the mil , it makes such a difference. Back my heart don't break it . Love me to boss . That's without for us it all started at the point like we make fundamentally it's pop music, whatever you call it folk pop or whatever it is, but we always wanted to keep it raw and natural. And we found like by doing these vocal layers it makes it less polished and that's even in our choice of microphones . Big time. We tried quite a few micres at the start, but everything was so clean and it's like a lot of those, I'm not sure if we did it on this track, but a lot of the mile sources or BVs that we'll do do we on' thell SM just seven because it sounds raw. On a track called Solo that we did was like on an iPhone closet . And it's just like how can you keep the scratch and the texture in what we do? Well, one hundred percent. Really interesting. Oh, can I show one more plugin? Sorry This is a big time sauce. I haven't seen a lot of people use this plugin. I stole it from a friend. It's called, it's made by Leap Wing Dyno Dinun. It's a multi band compressor that I actually put on the master on the bus of all of the vocals. So like this is a chain for miles . We have a couple compressors. I use the dyno audio on there, decapitator and the capital chambers. I love the capital chambers on his vocals. It's just like sounds, it's like my favorite rever for him, but the Dino audio is going over all of those vocals . So this is it with it. Back my heart don't break it Love me to my bone . And then this is without it. My heart don't break it. It's subtle . Love me to my bone . It just brings out the transients. Yeah, anyways, that's like the last kind of layer for the vote. Really interesting so interesting let's have a blast of the ending and then we'll move on to the next amazing amazing Take my heart on bracket . Look me to my bos s all this time I was it . You were right there all along . Little Altro Corps. That little altro always wind me up. Fantastic. Always winds you up. Yeah, there's a little part in the comp where you get a breath just before I take I know. It only caught me after it was on Spotify a little fish. The rest of my life . It's so interesting to hear that you know, there's something that still frustrates me about it because I always got to wrap up and say, So that's how you write a billion screaming song . But you're still hearing this tiny thing annoy you. So funny. You know what someone said to me that I love ? They said art is never finished. It's abandoned. It's like at some point you got to let it go. Yeah, you know what I mean? So like the breath, the breath lives in there . Oh my dad lifted . Brilliant. We're going to take a quick break. The next song we're going to look at is My Mess Beautiful . If you're serious about songwriting and building a sustainable career in today's music industry , this is worth your attention. Starting in september twenty twenty six, Trinity Laben are launching a new master's program, the MA in songwriting. Built around a write produced, release approach to learning, the idea is that you graduate not only with a master's degree, but with real music already out in the world and the skills to keep building a sustainable career. You'll learn the modern side of the industry, things like protecting your songs, building your brand, understanding algorithms, and shaping a five year career plan with Trinity Lavan's professional networks. At the same time, the course goes deep on craft, refining your melodic and harmonic language, exploring new approaches to songwriting and helping you define your voice as an artist. Designed for modern artists and working musicians, the course is online first so you can study from anywhere in the world and during the programme you'll come together in London for an industry style intensive songwriting camp. So if you want to sharpen your craft, build your identity as an artist and learn how to navigate the modern music industry, this could be a great next step. To find out more, head to Trinity Lab en. AC. UK that's Trinity LABAN . AC dot UK and search for the MA in songwriting. The next song we're going to look at is My Mess, but before we start looking at that I've got to ask you a couple of questions we've had through from Patreon one is from Sami W who says hi, I love your songs. Your lyrics and songwriting seem so heartfelt and vulnerable to me and they all talk about relationships and very personal things. Do you ever have to navigate over sharing or being selective about what you want to tell the world in your music? Oh, that's a great question isn't it? Yeah I do. I think it's easier to share you're writing with people who allow you to be vulnerable because you've already done half the job in sharing with, you know, a bunch of people . I feel like it's definitely difficult because they're all, I think , I mean, yeah, every single one of my songs is a real experience or a real relationship , you know, a real circumstan whichces has happened. And so sometimes that I guess awareness of it being a real thing happens like after the song's out and you get messages from family and friends like, Oh, you're talking about this or you're talking about that. That's when it really hits you like, oh, I've put this thing out into the world. I think when it's happy stuff is easy, when it's some of the sadest stuff or some of the hardship is definitely being a battle. But I think there's always like, you know, the fight for real music and real art to exist, you sort of have to put yourself out there on a plate and you know, I choose to do it because it's sort of the reason I started making music in the first place. Yeah, you gotta put yourself on the line. Yeah. Lucas Friedman asks any advice for creatives wanting to use TikTok as a platform for accelerating their music career? Ooh , you know what? I think with TikTok, if you see it as an accelerant for your music career, you won't have fun doing it. If you see it as an opportunity to connect with people and find your community, that's when you subsequently accelerate your music career. So I'd say think of TikTok as an opportunity to share your art with the world but also to find people who are like minded and can learn something from you and you from them and it becomes a lot more enjoyable experience and yeah you find a lot more success doing that way and it's far more sustain able. Yeah, because in a way, I mean, you put up videos of yourself on YouTube and stuff like that doing covers and that TikTok maybe wasn't around at that point, but it's a similar kind of thing and that's one of the reasons why you're doing it. One hundred percent, absolutely. Social media has played such a massive part and you know, just between me, Pete and my manager, Eric, like we were able to have like nine million monthly listeners before I ever signed it ill. And so it goes to show you could really start and build a career, you know, with just your phone and good friends, you know, and a lot of hard work , but I think that's an amazing place that we live right now that you can do it yourself. Yeah. And listening to you both talk about writing, stargazing. It seems there are two key factors in how you approach things and that connection is fundamental. You immediately started talking about coming up with something that would connect with people and you can link that to being thirteen years old at the pub and intention as well, writing with intention and thinking about what you want each thing to actually achieve and what you want it to do to the listener when they're listening. Yeah , absolutely. I think connection and intention is sort of the heart of music you know is like I go by the philosophy like if you put out a song that isn't completely you . If it's successful, you're going to hate having to play it for the rest of your life . If it isn't, you're going to hate the fact that you ever put it out. But if you continue to strive just to do things that you love, whether it goes well or not, you'll always be proud of it. And I think that that's sort of like what pushes us to do what we do. Yeah . And that connects nicely to the next song we're going to look at My Mess because it couldn't be more you guys. You know, in terms of you putting your life out there. Yeah . This was a really tough and easy track to write, tough in the emotional sense, easy at that, you know, it came together in like an hour . It was weird. It started over two days. It was like the night before it was me , Pete and a few other writers that were on the song. And Sam Romans, who's an amazing songwriter, started to talk to me sort of about childhood and life and stuff and then ended up like massively oversharing like massively . And then it became like this huge trauma dump session which was like cathartic in a way . And you know, that sort of just stopped there and left there. And the next day we was sort of like coming towards the end of the camp and we'd got a mandolin. Like none of us could play Mandolin , but Pete was like, dude, we should get a mand olin. And so, you know, Joe Ari and I went out and found a mandolin in the middle of Oslo somehow . And we're like halfway through another song and Pete's just like, I'm just gonna goide out ands fiddle with a mandol in and like he comes out and he plays, you know, the riff of my master . And like two things happened first, I was like, how the hell did you learn to play mandolin in ten minutes? And the second thing was like, this is really sick and like instantly off that like the melody like I'm quite melody forward like I always find them quite quickly and quite easily and the melodies of the song just start spurting out of me and when we got to sort of like the hook we had the just like melodically . And then Sam was like, why don't we talk about some of the stuff that you were like talking about last night and you know between, that and sort of like being in bed the night before going through therapy notes and stuff that I'd written from years ago it just the song flowed out so naturally and it was just like a really beautiful moment and I think we all felt super connected because the stories behind it like we're discussed at such steps the night before and yeah the song just sort of grew out of nowhere Fascinating, right? We need to hear blast of the master of hear blast of this Sisters cry slime ind oors , plagues of fly I was born into a fragile hand where workers start a horrible . Lost my tongue when I spoke my teeth here , grab my shirt and bruised my cheeks and a man had to go toe to toe with a boy thirteen Sorry I'm so gaddamned the sassy . I was raised to sit too was I'm tired and I hate for that house this and soon Come on . A little taste of my mess there, which is the opening track to the album and in effect, I guess the title track as well because the phrase my mess, my heart, my life is in that song. Yeah. So I mean, you told us how it came about. Pete learned a Madeline in ten minutes and hey fresh though. You know what's so funny? It was also just like a little context on the song. We were in Oslo because Miles was on tour with Ed and he had a couple weeks to write and it was like the one week that Oslo had a had a heat wave massive heat wave. So there was no AC in the house. All of us were sweating. That day specifically one of, our friends had to go to the hospital. It was like getting serious. So we were like on surviving heat. So we ended up writing this song on the grass in the shade. And I think like that setting was so important. You sharing everything the night before and then like everything kind of happening the way it was. Yeah, Joe grabbed a mandolin and I don't know how to play the Mandolin, but like I just know music a little bit. So I was able to fly this riff and I remember going into the house while they were recording another song we had written and I was kind of like just jamming and found this little thing that I liked. And our friend Jessie came and he's like, Dude, stop playing more stuff. Like, you can't write more today. It's so hot. And then Miles comes up and he's like, What is that? And then the song just like, this is one of my favorite songs I've ever written in terms of the experience of it. So yeah, I'll just kind of pop into the track a little bit . All of these guitars were done. I mean all these mandolins and stuff were done in Oslo at the Airbnb under the excruciating heat. It was so bad. We just how hot is hot. I mean it was like thirty five. Oh, really? You guys talking like Celsius? I don't know what that is like it was hot. You know what I mean? I'm just thinking somebody lives in LA. Yeah, it was hot. No, it was like thirty five, thirty seven, but no AC. And the windows so the windows were just like creating a heat vacuum. And there was like the water maybe like a couple miles ahead that was just reflecting everything into the house. So inside the house the thermostat was like was like it reading like fifty. It was like obscene. It was it was insane. But like somehow we recorded all the vocals and the mandolin. And I feel like with this song like we didn't do any tracking with the vocals afterwards. We were so in the energy and the vibe of the song that I remember this recording process. Everyone was like, let's just get it. The magic is right here. I mean, like the foundation of this song, like from a production perspective, is the Mandolin. It's a little sloppy but it's like live and real . And then all of us got around and did these wild stomps in the room, like six of us . Yeah . And that was in reference to the lyric as well, like slamming nause. It just like we wanted we just wanted to feel like you're in it if that makes sense. It was like baits are flying slam indoors da and it was just like wanting to put people in the like to be able to visualize it and feel it. But those claps are funny. There were like six or seven of us around a mic. Yeah . And it was just like stomping on all kinds of random things . One of them is a butchy . One of them is a budgey Gr,iffla Cwson's butch Flax. We have evidence. I've got a video we actually have evidence of that. Yeah, on the starps, I just have a little bit of SSL compression and can you solve the button ? It's in the other ones, you know what I mean? I'm not going to expose my boy like that. You know what I mean? So yeah, I mean most of the first until really the chorus is just Miles telling your story on the Mandolin. This is another one I feel like we were like, let's get out of the way of the song. This is like such to me it's like the heart of the album and for what he's sharing about his life, like we wanted really the lyrics to kind of like shine the most. So it's really Miles on the Mandolin for the first verse cry until those stomps come in place . Also one of my favorite performances from ILS like Vogy Well, I can start a boring . Dinner stomps Lost my tongue when I spoke my teeth here , grab my shirt and bruised my cheeks have to go toe to toe with a boy teeth . So at the chorus we start to kind of open up a little bit more instrumentally, we have a left and right of the mando just doing the strums with the main mandolin here, those are those together. Let's see what I have on the Mandolin. Honestly, kind of the same like, eleven se venty six compressor with the UAD Sparks Capital Chambers plugin that I love. And then let's see, we have some acoustic guitar strums, classic . All pencil mic. Yeah, all pencil mic, so use you mic. And then we have our lovely the bass that we love to use, the dip, the dip one shot bass. And then my friend Kahn played the live piano. This we did after the fact in my studio in LA. We love a live piano. Yeah Again, the first chorus kind of a dropout as well. We just wanted the lyrics to shine, so all those pieces together Doubles on the vocal. Doubles on the vocal . No mild sauces yet, not we get to some serious sauce later . But like on an intimate song like this, you know, it's just like you got to do what it calls for. So just lead in doubles here decision I was raised to do as I'm taught and I have And I have my dino audio on the bus again with a little bit of soothe. I love this pres et called DS and that's it. It just like keeps some of the harshness away . And then let's see, coming out of this chorus . We wanted to like kind of you know evolve the song pre diSa this song pre diS hana making those decisions about singles and doubles. I mean, how do you judge that? I feel like it's a case by case basis. Like for a big anthem like Stargazing, it's like, let's give them the goods, let's stack this to the sky. This one is a really intimate double at a that minimum. I don't know for sure. Especially hooks. I don't think there's a single hook I've done, that's not at least a double. Hundred percent. Even on tracks like on the album like Grandma's Place, which are acoustic ones, we double hooks always just because I don't know, it just makes you feel like you're entering that section of the song. Yeah. Yeah, one hundred percent. And so then we start to build a little bit and I love this rhythm and vibe of verse two . changing clothes out cut my friends off. I'll just kind of kind of walk through some of the things we're doing here. I really love this kind of groove between the four on the floor . I have a brush snare. Yeah. And is that all in the box? This is all in the box. These were like live samples that I that I kind of spiced together because we're in Azo. We didn't have a drum kit. Yeah, I was thinking right here you're just like kind of doing with which I feel like often leads to something dope. I don't think it's just being in Ozlo. I think me and the box have a funny relationship. Yeah, you've stepped out the box a few times and I've not liked it. Right. I feel like there's a certain control that you lose outside the box . And don't get me wrong, we always put elements that are outside the box a hundred percent . But I feel like code of the music I make, there has to be a certain level of like snappiness to it to get the sort of desired like impact and especially when it comes to drums, even if we have live drums , there's box drums on there because yeah, we just like to keep things tight and then we use other live elements like pianos or guitars to give you the flexibility. Even on this song we have live strings, but we always do live percussion . Like this shaker is just my lucky shaker I wish I had it on me. It's like this yellow double shaker vibe, but we have that this, snare and we have the brush snare with a kick drum and the Mando . That's kind of like the heartbeat of the verse two . And then I'm also doubling the Mando thing with the guitar . Honestly, nothing on here except for the capital chambers . That's this in the Manda . And then I bring in a little bit of banjo , which I love this guy . Sixth string banjo. Yeah, who's not a six year who's playing the six string banjo? I'm playing the sixteen . Okay . And was that not done in Ausla that? That was not done in Aussie. We didn't have a banjo on that. So like you had one, but it was a roban joke . I don't know how to play that . Now Miles will sometimes be like, yo, just do more on the mandal and I'm like, that's all I have. This song is all I had on the Mandolin, bro. those are kind of the core elements and we have a bass kind of coming in as well in verse two . So everything's rocking here. We have live piano from Kehan . Like all the elements are live really except for the drums and when the percussion is live . We drop out on the second chorus also, but it's bigger. We have more vocals . Oh, the vocals are actually really fun here because Miles kind of it was cool. He was like orchestra, there was like six of us or seven of us, which usually we don't ride with that many people, but because of the heat in Oslo, we went from two rooms to one room and we were outside. So everyone was it was just like a fun vibe but, Miles was kind of like orchestrating all these gang vocals and they start smaller. So these are the gangs . This brings me back so much . And then we have these oaths coming in that I absolutely love. Thank you welcome . I remember him just being like I feel like O patterns are like yeah I just love O patterns if I could find a good O pattern to like support a melody for Miles like he also phonetically O s'sings so well for him and he's always just going for the OPES. So I like this is just all of the background gang vocals with the O's. And then bringing in the doubles in the lead . There's so much happening there. I feel like that really elevated it when we when we went back up to us, we repeat the chorus on the second chorus. So with everything here's how it sounds. Yeah , this is my favorite part of the song. This is also a cool writing moment. Yeah We had everything except for the Bridge and Miles had always had the title for the album I Mess My Heart My Life . And I remember we were jamming on the grass and this is like when it just got chills everywhere all of us did and we like had this melody da da da da da da and he was just like, This is my mess, my heart , my life. And it just became this like anthem for the album and like just, I don't know the hit so different. Yeah, it was it was beautiful, man. It was yeah, I think it was just it felt because we had been writing, you know, at this point two years for this album like between touring and everything , this really did feel like the when album was done because I was like this just feels and then yeah we went in and then we did we want to take the bridge right? We want to take the bridge yeah yeah most of this was one take like sometimes we'll cut a lot of vocals and piece them together like do a proper comp. But with this one it was like honestly the first time I like teared up when Miles was cutting a vocal because just the message of the song and what he's sharing and the performance was incredible. So like after that second chorus everything, kind of drops out in a little interlude . And then we start the build . Just Amanda at first. This is my mess, my hawk, my life . This is my mess, my hawk, my life . This is my miss, my hawk my life . This is one nice of my life . This is my life . This is one this is my I just kind of want to walk through some of these elements. This is like my one of my favorite kind of elements. We have all these like ebos going on. The ebospoon eB OS. I remember on FaceTime. You're like, Dude, we need EBOs in the bridge. I didn't know what the time for an ebo was. I've used them, but I never called it up. I was like, We need the things like you'll hear all of these. We kind of start with this first one . And then more mandoes come in. I start doing a picking pattern on the Mando here . Oh, the amount it takes to get that done was hilarious . So all of these ebos are kind of creating this atmosphere. Yeah . We both grew up like listening to Bonivore Ebo's a big at the time like I was really hot on is it anchor by I could find it on my phone Nova More? Nova More. It was really big on Nova More and just atmosphere. Yeah Boes were like I really wanted atmosphere because I love the way that they introduce them in their music. We also our friend Lily does a lot of strings on a lot of these songs and so we brought her in to do some strings as well the. H strereings and the EBO kind of like just emotional chamolated We wanted everything to just be building. We have these kind of stronger electric guitars here And at the strings recording in LA? Yeah, in LA and my studio It's just this euphoric moment and I love so much of this production and how it builds like so organically. We also have the pianos that are doing the build. There's actually a ton of a ton of track s on this one, just because we wanted it to feel really live. And on the vocal front too, it's just miles. Like again, this is a one take through the verse from him on the lead, and then on the background vocals , they start to come in slowly. This is my mess, my heart , my life. This is my mess , my heart , my life . This is my mess. And as he starts to ramp, we all ramped with him. This is my life This is my heart This is my favorite moment in the song when everything is really building . So after this, honestly also one of my favorite performances from him. We just did a last chorus . That was super raw and his voice kind of cracks and it just like fits the lyric and the energy so well. Sorry damn into sassy . I was like do was untime in a hopper of slightly and still learn it all . Yeah, I don't think we would have got the vocals from this song had we not been at the end of a Writing Camp because I did my vocals were exhausted which really matched the song if I came in on fresh vocals I don',t think it would have the same life it does. One hundred percent. We actually even cut the song in a different key before. So like the next day we're like, maybe we should try it in a different key and it just didn't sound like we recut it in the same key as well. Oh we, did did. We rec. Weut the song twice and we always came back to like the OG OG. Sometimes it's just that way. You know, there's been times we totally recut songs and it's better , but to us it's always about capturing the right emotion and this was like the rawest emotion for us . Yeah, yeah, well and it clearly works amazingly well. And to think that all done on that one day all everything, but you know, the main ingredient most of the pretty much how it is now apart from a hundred percent songs and piano. And I feel like we always kind of do that. We want to get the emotion of the song while we're in it and then we can finish the production later. I think it's important to like Miles is really good at this and like moving quickly through things. Like when the magic is in the room, you don't want to lose it. You want to like capture it. So we did everything we can to like capture it. And then at the end, we'll just go back and forth on the production and make sure it's like totally dialed. Yeah, fantastic. And what a way to start the album. It's really interesting. I mean, the whole story is really interesting to think that you had the phrase My Mess, My Heart, My Life and it was there, but it was almost as if it was waiting for this moment for it to be part of a song. One hundred percent had just paired up so beautifully because I felt like the album had everything but a pretty bow on it until the song sort of came about. Yeah. I was also like when you had that 'cause you've had that title for like a few months before like the process started and I was always like how we gonna write a song called My Mess, My Heart Mind? And then it's just now it's my mess, but the message is in there. And it just kind of fit perfectly as you're saying. Sometimes you can't plan those things out. Yeah. Most of the times you can't. But I think almost that you had that title , the thought process had begun and that conversation was waiting to happen to unlock those stories and thoughts and then the next day it's yeah like you were saying on the question you asked like than half of the work on this song was him just sharing the night before . Like we've been really close friends for a long time and I'd never heard some of these things. And it was just like you had a moment of like, I want to get this off my chest and then put it into the song for him, and it was magical . Yeah, fantastic. Yeah. Right. We're gonna take another quick break and the third song we're going to look at is Dying Day . Tired of background noise ruining your recordings, meet the new Tape It Denoiser, the plugin that automatically profiles your noise and removes it cleanly without touching your sound. No artifacts, no degradation, just your recording as intended. Drop it into any door as a VST or use the desktop app to clean files outside your session. Quick, easy and flexible. To find out more, and to get a special launch offer a fifty percent off , head to tape dot it forward slash denoiser and hear the difference for yourself. The next one we're going to look at is Dying Day, the third selection, maybe we'll have a blast of the master now. Amazing and then find out how you created it Thor melts away . Sometimes I don't have what's left to say at the end of it starts to fade , is just you and I in the mist that we made It's just you and I the rest of the main Home Breat he It's It will permit your sight Promise my dine A little taste of Dying Day there by Miles Smith from My Mess My Heart My Life and it's interesting because it's such a delicate, beautiful song and yet there are those heavy bits in it, aren't there? Quite quite heavy for the album as well. One hundred percent. This song was just so fun to write. I think we started this song also on the same Oslo trip that we did my Messma heart my life and Dan Smith was in this session running. Plus did Phil Person . Yeah. So we'd start this song and like at a writing camp is fun because everyone there is like so everyone I invite to a writing camp justbell so inv'olsved in the project and so in love with the project but what's awesome is like it's probably the only area of music competition exists and Dan Smith was like there for this trip and we've done nice to meet you together and a bunch of other songs. So we've worked a ton, but he was definitely feeling like I want a song. You can tell in his aura. So in his aura. And so also he was there second week. This is like, you know, so we were there two weeks. He got there the second week and he came in like swinging . So we'd like he'd start playing the keys for this song which it was on initially and sometimes chords just really spark ed something and yeah , we just we fell in love with the keys and it just felt so emotional and then we started I think with the upper octave singing and found these beautiful melodies and saw the shape of the song . And a bit like my mess, it came together pretty quick . Yeah, it was also it was funny because we usually cut everything on Miles with a U eighty seven Norman that we love. This was on SMB because like there was two rooms. So Miles like bouncing between room s, like cutting vocals, and he sits down and like all the vocals are from the SM seven. This is the only one we're like, and it has a cool vibe to it. Yeah. We're always fighting each other on that. I'm like, Dude, do it on the U eighty seven. He's like, on the SM seven . I think it's partially because on the SF seven, I could just lay down. He was literally like just sitting back so relaxed . It was I remember that moment. I was like, wow, these are sounding amazing. He's chilling right now. But yeah, it is there are some heav ier sounds in it. And that was actually a big direction for Miles. Like in the beginning, it's such a beautiful song. I was like, let's just keep it like that. Like let's keep the drums pretty, let's keep everything pretty. Let's do something dirty . And because like there are two falsettos and a lead , it's really beautiful and kind of like magical and, you know, it floats. And then like the drums kind of ground it in a really cool place. So it was like a wild, there's a lot of iterations to get to this. It was a bit of a fight this song. Today we don't me and Pete we usually go back and forth in songs and we'll both have different ideas for it and like we usually meet in the middle ground. But I think with this one like it was always meant to be the closing track . And I think one thing that is a struggle when you make music is like how big do you go before it sounds like too much like a movie soundtrack ? And you know, there's no rules to music, but there is like where it sits in a space you have to be super like careful with how you construct it. But for this one it was just like let's just go full throw everything that we both know at a song. It's like the last song in the album and yeah, it was just really fun to like have that little fight and then both land on like for sure let's just send it. Yeah let's just send it. We got live drums on this song Yeah, live strings there's so many live horn s. We actually have my friend sing background vocals . She's like at the very end. There's this huge crescendo moment. It's actually funny because it was already big . And then we were finishing the album in LA at Airbnb. And remember we spent like so much time on that last section in the bridge . Yeah, this one is again, it just starts with with a guitar vocal kind of classic and I'll just kind of play what that sounds like. Another motif no surprise here. Right in the beginning I just kind of want to solo the leads . Sometimes I don't have words left to say. There's a left and a right of the I think it's so beautiful to have these two. It started that way and there was no load, do you remember? It was actually a choice . We flip between the two. Right. And then we said, why not just do both? And like, I love the texture of these three together. I think it sounds so beautiful. Yeah. The upper octave didn't feel strong enough. The lower octave on its own didn't feel delicate enough. Yeah. Which we've never done that in a song and I kind of I love how it turned out. Can you still reach? Yeah . So these are the these are the faucets. This is one of the faucetto . Again, like he has crazy range. Here's the double in the falsetto. Lower octave on top of it . At the end of the start to just kind of like that also took up a lot of space kind of like eatonically in the song. So in the verse we really didn't need anything else and because it goes so heavy, it's nice to like just have this intimate moment. Like you don't know where the song's going. It's just you and I oh, you know what's crazy? We also did an electric guitar. We did. The song was originally on this electric guitar. The whole song was the whole song was yeah . You even have the take. Yeah, this is the whole take. So this is how we actually wrote the entire song until we were like, okay, let's put a let's put an acoustic guitar on it. But this guitar kind of fades in, which I love so much right here before the chorus. I in the midst of the Maine. And then we start to fade in the electric here. It's just you and I in the mist of the Maine . Yeah Yeah, and so we also added these because we're like, okay, we're going to go into a thing . And we also dropped out on the one , which is the first time we've ever kind of done that, which is really cool. And also this song is in three four so like we don't have a ton of songs in three four so this is just going into the hook And then and then it gets heavier here. I will say this we also we did some unique things on this song . We did a voc er actually . I was obsessed with vocoder. He was just like, put a voc er in there. It used the voc er and sleeper sounds. It's the first time I've used a vocoder. Oh yeah, that's right. And I was obsessed. I was like, I need it on a song. It's so sick. This is the voc er. This is a plugin called Vocal Synth es. So this one we did some miles sauce on as well and then the leads . The vocal corder does so much because it is chordal. So it's playing the chords and it's doing like the third and the fifth . And so just with all of those, it just felt kind of like magical . And our friend Kyle who sometimes when we do the live drums , so I'll play the program drums that we did that we ended up getting to because they were a lot softer before . Can I actually play the earlier ? I want to play how they were before. They were super pretty debut album, dying day . Okay, this is what it was originally Really kind of meer. Yeah, you know ? So then we have these drums here that are the program drum s ended up going a little bit harder and then the live drums are here , which added so much just like air to the drums, you know, so adheres them together Like the crashes on the hit and also the bass is doing something cool. The bass is playing like chords as well instead of just root notes. It's actually doing a little bit of a chord here. That's the electric guitar . This is the bass. This is a Hoffner bass, actually it's from the sixties. I love the Hoffner bass. McConnell style. Exactly. They're amazing . So these are actually doing the chords instead of just the root notes . And everything's a little distorted. Like the guitars are crunchy too. What do I have on these guitars? Oh yeah, this is the Neural DSP Cory Wong archetype. I love these . This is the electric guitars . We just did DIY since we were in Oslo . That's just raw and then with the archetype . We just wanted to go for those kind of heavier sounds . Even the bass is distorted and then what are these guys ? More guitar layers And then we have live streams from Lily again, our friend . So altogether we just kind of wanted to send it even in the first chorus , drops out . I'm really interested in the way that you've done that because you feel the heaviness , but you don't let the heaviness obliterate everything else it's really distorted and quite gnarly and the way you've sat it in the mix. How did you arrive? Was that easy? Did you have tried? Yes. Our mixture Freeman was a big part of that. This is the unmixed, but like we mix as we go, you know . Michael Freeman's mixed everything on the album. He's just a friend and we are in a great workflow. Like traditional mixers will want you to print all of the stems and send them individually. With Michael, I'll actually send the frozen section from where I left off and then he works from there. And to us, like it's like the mix is such a part of it as we go along. We don't need someone to recreate it . And Michael just like understands that. So I think to me, it's really like balancing the drums and the vocals because the drums can get really insane if you don't like tame it. And I think it's just kind of a level thing honestly. There was like nothing. I'm not sideching anyin of the drums to the vocals or anything like that . It's just kind of honestly a levels thing. Yeah . And these are the live drums . Layering the live and the program drums I think was a really important thing. So this is both and this is without there's just less air and I think the live drums were a big part of that. But yeah, to answer your question, I think it's just kind of making sure that the vocals sit on top and don't get drowned out , which can be hard. And also the bass, sometimes the bass can actually , sometimes when you solo and when you mute the bass, it feels like there's way more room and I think because we distorted it so much, it kind of became smaller and allowed more room for the vocals to shine. It's less of like a thumpy bass and it has more like treble. I think that was a key part of it too. It's like the product of a fight as well because it's like this one especially I think it was a battle because like I pushed it as far as I could in terms of like in the room like can we just turn off a bit more? Can we turn them off a bit more? Can we turn them off a bit more till Pete was like we're done It got that was like the right way to do it because we pushed it so far at one point it was overbearing yeah yeah and then we sort of like reeled it back in to find the middle ground. Also the crashes, you know, they're so loud and there's so many on the hits . Yeah . Making sure that those are like deest and not like super in your face where it feels like it's biting a little bit, you know? So yeah, that's that's kind of like the breakdown of the course. I want to I want to hop to the bridge because the bridge gets wild . I want to just play the end of the bridge It was so funny because we kind of had it as like a static. Everything was kind of staying the same in the post until we got together . And I wanted to just kind of highlight a couple of things. So our friend Desa, we faced her when we were together, we're like, Hey, we really would love a female kind of like background vocalist on this. And I remember she sent a bunch of options and then I was like, can you do the third and fifth and double them all? And so I'd just send voice notes to Pete 'cause she'd done it about five times and it'd be like, okay now can she get this and now I'd sing it and like just sing like seven parts like an octave below and just be like send that terra please so many . And it was funny because we were just doing it over like voice notes. And she was sitting in her studio in her room, just like recording and then sending us files in real time. So we were like doing all these live horns and strings. These are her vocals at the end Fazuzu Yeah, that last bit where she does the harmonies and everything . Yeah , there are so many vocals here. So many voice notes to get there . Like there's probably twenty of her vocals there, just at the end, just for about two seconds of music. Yeah, let's see how long? Yeah, literally four seconds. Yeah. At the very end, everything just kind of climaxes . And then we have live brass here on top of it . It kind of feels like it was a darker song and at the end you get this kind of like triumphant like euphoric type of feeling. Growing up going to church with my grandma, like the harmonies are always informed like church music and it's just like what a beautiful way to wrap up that song. And there's like loads of strings. We really just threw all the paint at the wall. Yeah . With the brass and the strings . And then there's like ten miles vocals but then there's so many miles vocals and there's a super distorted guitar in this bridge somewhere. Let's see where is it? Oh yeah, this guy. That was so fun I remember tracking that . These are all of the guitar tracks in the bridge So that with the strings and the brass and the female voc als at the end just does something to me . Yeah , so that's like that's my favorite part of the song. I remember you tracking those Oh yeah and just me and the back ground yeah people just like and it's just this beautiful intimate song and. And then then so it goes to this the mountain top and then it drops right off which I love at the very end I think a big reason why we wanted to add electronic instruments into this section. I remember referencing it during the write is like when Mumford came back with the record I'd believe on it, I just loved the fact that like the electric infusion really worked and I don't know there was a little bit of like how can we make a song that, you know, sounds like a sort of like traditional big song and add something that makes it feel fresh? And that's like why I think the electronic nuance in it just makes it feel so special . Yeah. Yeah., at least to me No, I agree. It's truly even the vocal order is like more of an electronic kind of sound with the organic thing. And I feel like we're always trying to push the boundaries a little bit because we do live in this organic pop kind of world, but anytime we get to do like a voc er or electric guitar that's really distorted, it's always fun. Yeah. So yeah, this was this is like this is like one of my favorites on the album. It just feels like such an amazing moment. And yeah, this is a real example of just throwing a lot of pain at the level. Yeah, everything. You know, that's fantastic. Let's have a blast of the ending or big crescendo. Yep, absolutely. I'll come out of the chorus. And that's the last one on the album, huh? Yeah, fantastic . So that is dying day. We're going to keep you here just a little bit longer. We've got a couple of questions we ask everybody who comes on take notes. I want to ask you a couple more from our patrons on Patreon . Bico Baneress ay, I hope is how you pronounce that. What has been your most mind blowing gig experience ? Oh, a mind blowing gig experience. There's been a few. I think a personal one was like when I headlined the Hammersmith Aopoll was super cool. Like seeing my mum front and sitting in the middle of the stage and just seeing sort of how far all of this had come from like playing in my bedroom to playing in pubs and clubs to like your hundred to hundred cup venues to doing that that and was like super special for me but then also you know coming out in sort of like a night thousand capacity stadium with Vedurin for the first time was like super awesome and you know singing with one of my like you know big,gest inspirations and, you know, it being a close friend now was just a mind blown experience. Yeah, yeah, totally. Have there been other people's concerts you've been to that you've that helped spur you on and kind of made you do that. I remember seeing Peace do a like comeback run and listening to nineteen ninety eight in this venue called Trent Students Union. It was like in Nottingham. It's like two thousand people and literally feeling the ground shake and just being like , this is what music is . Yeah, fantastic. What about you, Peter ? On a miles front, my wife and I actually flew to Rome when he opened up for Ed, and that was like such an amazing experience. And Miles didn't play Stargazing in his set. And we were just like, That's funny. He didn't play stargazing. And he comes up to us in the crowd, and he's like, hanging out with me and my wife, Sarah. And he's like, Dude, like the files got corruptive for stargazing. We couldn't play it. I was like, that sounds weird. I didn't even question it. And then Ed set is there and we watch it and it's like amazing and then Ed brings Miles up to play Stargazing together. And that was like such a crazy moment. Like we literally started in my like bedroom . And then to see him play like with his hero Ed like one of my heroes was like amazing, you know? I love that. Erin Dixon has been in touch. It can feel impossible to make it if you come from a working class background or don't live in London, what advice would you give to young artists in those positions? Yeah, I grew up in Lutons outside of London and I was as working class as it comes, you know, I was like free school meals, like gas and electric key card, like, you know , I definitely get it. I think for me it's London isn't the same thing it used to be. It's like it's amazing but the access that you have just on your mobile phone now like you have access to the world. Like you know going to London didn't make my career I think being able to share like just experiences in doing the pub gigs and the club gigs and the smaller venues really built the confidence and the skill and then being able to share my music with the world via social media was a tool that is inexpensive but also opens you up to so many big things and you know you see it whether it be Alex Warren or Benson Boone or Shabuzi or Bella Kay coming through more recently instead of Lefti coming through more recently or even going back to Justin Bieber and YouTube, it's like social media in our generation has always been a predominant platform to break. And so , you know, if you have an iPhone or Samsung or whatever it is and you have access to the internet, you can get going. Yeah. And it's interesting because it seems to me that there was a determination on your side that this is what you wanted to do and that you were going to make it . But there was also a patience , I don't know where you got that from, but you kind of waited and took your time about how you were going to go about things, partly seeing the layer of the land, trying to work out what's the best way, but that's quite an interesting stare and decision. Definitely it was super tough, you know, like it's really fun when people say it's an overnight success but I,'ve been playing and writing music since I was eleven years old, you know, so I'm twenty seven now. So sixteen years I've been doing music and I think it's really awesome to see artists who have been artists for a while having their moments because it makes it seem so much more achievable. Like you look at Noah Khan that was like seven years in the making and that's from when he was signed, you know, you look at examples like Jelly Roll who won, you know, I think best new artists had the Grammys didn't he and he was like in his late thirties at the time. So it was like there's no timeline on being a musician. I think the hardest part about being a musician is like you said having the patience to wait until it's your time and a lot of people are a lot more talented than me won't make it because it's that need to have it now and that need to do it now, but sometimes it's just about, you know, keep on doing what you do and believing in it, and eventually something will open up. Can I just say something to that? I also have seen it up close with Miles and I feel like one thing he didn't mention is like how hard he works . I remember when we were making the first EP and he was staying at our house and we were writing every day and then in the mornings he would go live on TikkTo for a couple hours and play for like fans direct and like he works really hard so I feel like that's a big part of it too. Yeah, definitely. I remember in my neurotic stage I was like posting like six videos a day and going live for like four hours a day when I was like, this social media thing works. I was like now I'm going to make it work but even before that like when I was at university I was like working at Tesco, going university, playing like four open nights like a week and then on the weekends like travelling to a neighboring city and going and playing a pub gig or picking up a wedding here and there like I did way more than a thousand shows before I did my first headline so yeah it,'s I think it's important just to really work hard. What did you study at university? I did sociology and social policy, right? Yeah , which is not what I'm doing now, but I've always been a hard worker, so like I graduated with a good degree , I went on to start my own business management consultancy, which did really well . And then yeah, I sort of like sold up shop and that sort of funded my music career. Wow, that's really interesting. Yeah, so a lot going on in that brain of yours. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot. I think music's two sides. You have to be a creative throwing through and absolutely love what you do, but you also have to be like super smart. Like, you know, I think some of the best musicians I'm and going to when say best musicians, some of the most successful commercial musicians are like really smart people . And it's not by luck, it's by like real hard work. And you know, whether it be your church of the W ororld Alex Forens of the World or Taylor Swift or Nokhan's world like they work really hard . Yeah, it's so true. That's really interesting. That's great . Right. Now onto our questions that we ask everybody comes on tape notes so the first of them relates to kit. Is there one piece of kit that this album wouldn't be the same without, do you think? What do you mean kit? Sorry. I mean, it could be anything . I guess it could be a plugin, it could be an instrument could be a microphone . Honestly, I would say your tailor. Yeah, one hundred percent. I would say one hundred percent. That guitar is magical. Yeah . And every song that we've wrote that has done at least a bit well has been started on that guitar. Is this the guitar that you haven't changed the strings on since you bought it? Yes in twenty twenty. I bought it at a random guitar shop in Santa Cruz when I was in school there, and it's so funny. I remember early on you're like, Dude someday kids are gonna be like, That's the guitar . But it's like funny when you buy an instrument, you never know the journey it's gonna take and what a crazy journey it's taken. I would say the same thing. That guitar is like it's been with us all around the world and it we start nips and of our songs on it. Wow . The other question we ask everybody is about advice, whether there's something you've learned along the way or some words of wisdom that somebody gave you that you would then pass on to other people . I think for me biggest like advice I could pass on is to like have fun doing it. I think that like the trap that you fall into and even I fell into it prior to finding the success that I have is that like I felt like I was trying way more than I was having fun and I think you could sense that in the music, I think you could sense that in the marketing. I think you could sense that in every aspect of being an artist and thes ones who are having fun even, if it's stressful, even if it's difficult, the ones who prioritize like I'm doing this because I was that kid in my bedroom who wanted to do this and used to stand on the edge of a sover pretending I was doing it. The closer you sort of like keep that mindset of that kid that just wanted to do it for the fun and love of it the further you'll get. I would say from my perspective for producers and writers out there, something that I was told that I really believe in is find the artist that you really love and believe in fully even if they have no music out. Like just build with your people. And I feel like with Miles it's been so cool to build with him and you know now so many people want to work with him but we have, a small crew and it's like those people who believed in him when there was nothing . And I think instead of trying to get cuts with the artists that are already established, find people you love and build with them. That's what I would say. Yeah, fascinating. It's been so good talking to you both. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for having us. Let's hear one more song from the album. A final hear a selection. Mary's song. Oh yeah, come on, come on, come on. Let's do that one. Okay. Let's hear Mary's song then. Who is Mary? I dare ask her. You can dare ask Mary it's a dark note to end on . Mary's based on a story of like two people that know my life they've gone through a lot of adversity, but have sort of smiled in the face of it and it's their story. Fantastic. This is it. This is Mary's Song The Last Selection today from Miles Smith Thank you for listening and in particular thanks to all of you who have signed up to support us on Patreon. I'm just one part of the team that brings you take notes and it relies on your support. Access to Patreon includes the full length videos of new episodes where possible, ad free episodes, and detailed gear lifts among many other things. If you'd like to join, head to the link on our socials or website. For pictures, highlight clips and behind, the scenes content, head to our Instagram or YouTube channel, and on discord, you can join the growing Take Notes community. Once again, thank you for listening until next time. Goodbye. She still sighs in the task heart. She still does in the broken part. Since her song ecosy didn't do a dude she still cuts in the ok , but she keeps playing c sheos sad since her son it goes I didn't do it She's got in her from the history. Still trying to run away from the memories but Mary can't hide, Mary can't cry, very so tight, very lost in a man by his fish trees our house fast car down a fish tree fish trees in the fifty