The State of the Democratic Party

So good, so good, so good New summer arrivals are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. Get ready to save big with up to sixty percent off brands like Rag and Bone, Levi', Adidas, and Free People. Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first, and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack I know that your pretending skills are very good., Michael No I'm totally aware. can someone drw my earsst down. I don't Drew's worse at pretend. Drew is better at self delusion but worse at pretend. I'm awful at pretend. I just like can't stuck now but you're really good at convincing your rightough. But the problem is that you're able to convince yourself of things that that ain't so. Not true, not true. I have been right about this thing. Save it for your. to saave it for the show. Save it for the show. Can someone turn my please Hey I think the most important thing is the Syria against S Syri Sh Leban. That's what I learned today is the Sri Sha Lebanon that Iran actually is owed money and that we should actually allow them to have as many missiles as they want because that's only fair.ose are some of the things thatld You know I'm excited to learn all these things. Hold on. I had here for the top of the show that we werere gonna talk about something else because I had this really interesting interview with one of the survivors of the grooming gangs in the UK's massive report out about the rape gangs on. But clearly we're not gonna start with that. We're gonna start by talking about Ben's favorite deal, which is the MOU on Iran. This is friendly fire The Shapiro armistice in Tehran, Ben, what's your favorite part of the deal? Oh man, I'm not sure what's to pick. I mean, I know there's so many wonderful aspects to it. I'm not sure whether it's the immediate release of sanctions without any further guarantee of of anything remotely like nuclear disarament. that wasn't true You can hear what you want or you could just read the text. you could then then you I'm not sure whether I also like the part where We esssentially say that these straight of horm moes can be told That's really exciting news I'm very into that V very, very into the idea that Iran should have massive funds released to it. The President said that today. that was great Um or the part where he said that essentially The Syrians should take over Lebanon, which is an interesting idea that worked brilliantly between nineteen seventy and two thousand five when the Syrians literally ran Lebanon and it didn't go so hot. So From where I sit on this, there were five main goals of this war nuclear disarament, permanent nuclear disarmament. reducing ballistic missile stockpilile and destroying their capacity to actually build new ballistic missiles because it was the ballistic missile umbrella that was the cause of the war in the first place the cut offff in support to terror groups opening of the Straight of Horm moves. And then the fifth point would be when all of that is done, maybe some form of economic loosening, but when all the first floor were done And so far from what I see None of those things is happening. Now again, that doesn't mean that in the long run, again, it's an MOU. So we should start off with this. It's an MOU. and MOU doesn't mean anything. It's basically like a non binding term sheet The the really biggest problem with this thing is that it releases a bunch of money to Iran right up top There's already oil flowing out of Iran. One of the one of the original oil money is one thing. I mean, look, on this point, before we get into exactly what was good what was bad I just got off the phone with senior U.S. officials and they read through verbatim the MOU, which was very similar to a lot of the copies of the texts that had been going around. So it directionally it's all the same. there were some little quibbles But also worse, also worse actually. What they read to you guys was actually worse with regard to the straight of Fore moves, but put that as. Listen, I mean, look, opening the Straight of Fore moves, I think is a good thing. We can get into that in a second. The top line of it though, that the administration seems keen to make clear, and we'll see what happens over the weekend in Geneva is that Iran they'll open the Straight of Fore mos There will be no tolls whatsoever for sixty days. thenen again, this is I' hearing.on' shot the messgers. is' what I'maring the US No, no. you say for sixty days very, very softly at the end. No, no, but then they even addressed that. And afterward, you know, they said, then there will have to be cooperation among the Gulf states to figure out what the protocol looks like moving forward. And the argument, at least from the admin is that the other Gulf states are not going to allow Iran to have a toll on the strait. So take that for Wedsworth. Then, in terms of the sanctions relief, no sanctions relief whatsoever, Iranian oil can flow, but none of the many other sanctions that Trump himself boosted up on Iran will be lifted until after the deal and crucially until after we get nuclear dust. Now the actual way in which we would get the nuclear dust Seems to be a little unclear is it could be us actually going in ourselves and taking it. But anyway, that would have to be figured out. Then this three hundred billion dollars from the Gulf States, that again, would not include the United States giving a single penny necessarily to it. It would be the Gulf states themselves investing in Iran to help rebuild Iran, which I think actually could be a decent thing But and crucially what it would do is stop the choking off of the straight of Hormuz and twenty percent of the world's oil supply. On top of the destruction of the Iranian military, the obliteration, at least for now of Iran's nuclear program and inspections and all the rest. Now, with that said, Ben, you said that the point of the chief point of this war was to end Iran's nuclear ambitions permanently. And I think that'd be great. I'd love to do it. But I don't think there's any world this side of heaven in which you say Iran's Trump said that Shen't say that. Trump said that and And so did JD Vans, and so to the Secretary of state. So I just want to make clear that the five goals that I laid out at the beginning were not just things that I thought were good, which is why I agreed with them. They were explicit goals of the administration. Do you think explicit program Yes, I do think we can permanently end Iran'suc never see another nuclear weapon. How would we do that Okay, the way that you would do that is you would bomb Kar Island, you would bomb the South Piers gas field, would permanently defenestrate their economy and make it literally impossible for them to fund the rebuilding of any of those efforts. And you would just give overwatch to our allies in the region like Israel and UA in Pul out That's what that would look like. So that point. let's say that you bomb Karg Island, you completely I mean, what we're talking about there truly is regime change. Trump himself is saying, we kind of got regime change, but what you're talking about is truly, you obliterate the Iranian regime. And then what happens? What happens if the country descends into civil war? What happ happens You know what happens with civil warar ridden countries, they don't have the capacity or the willpower to develop nuclear weapons. you were asking me how you solve the nuclear weapons problem, and I just answered that question. But the reality is that when it comes to the deal, to go back to the deal for one second I know that the administration is trying to sell the idea that the only way that we could get out of this was either that we basically bribe them because that's what this is. or or that there's endless war. and that isn't true It's not true We cut by by the way, one solution here it would have been The other in terms of opening up the strait of. Well, you just said of the civil war but that's endless war. said no that's not no, that is not what I said. What you said is the alternative of civil warar. What what I said is a permanently weak regime with the oversight of our allies looking over their nuclear facilities, their missile facilities, raids every so often, mowing the grass as they like to say in the Middle East. That is one possibility Another possibility would have been that we allow for and help our allies in the region, including Saudi, UAE Bahrain, and Yes Qatar to actually run the strait of Hormuz Right We tried to do that with Project Freedom for five seconds before the president was convinced out of it by somebody. Yeah The notion that the only two choices here are permanent endless bloody war or complete surrender, That is a Barack Obama model That is what Barack Obama said about the twenty fifteen Iran deal. And basically, if you're going to use that same logic here then, you know, I don't think it was good then. I don't think it's good now. And I think that it also happens to be untrue And these sort of concessions that are being made right now to Iran in again, this is an MOU. I want to emphasize again The MOU is preliminary Okay. so the only thing that I'm deeply upset about right now In the MOU, there' really a couple of things. There's what's clearly not in even any future negotiations. Support for terrorism is not in any future negotiations. Ballistic missile negotiations, not in any future negotiations. None of that is part of the MOU. When it comes to the Well way hold onen in a way, Hezbollah is not written out in the MOU in the fourteen point document, but what the administration is at least saying about the MOU is that because we are not giving Iran any money, we're not free unfreezing any assets, we're not lifting all these sanctions. but immily that's not true. Okay hold on hold onold hold on one second. One clarification. No one clarification on sanctions, then you go back to terrorism Okay, clarification on the sanctions. There are several different things we're talking about when we talk about sanctions One is the full scale sanctions on the Iranian economy, Th those don't all go away. The sanctions on the export of oil and petrochemicals go away immediately Okay, immmediately. And that includes in the provisions, it includes the removal of financial sanctions and insurance sanctions on any of that stuff. So right now, before the war, for example, there were in fact sanctions on Iran's oil capacity in terms of export and import in that they had to use, for example, ghost fleets in order to move their oil around because anybody who was attempting to do business with them was sanctioned. That all goes away immediately, not in sixty days, not after negotiation. That goes away like two days ago And that goes away two days ago because they shut off the straight, whichich means realistically speaking, what are we talking about? What we' are talking about is Iran maintains control of the strait. Anyone attempting to argue that Iran does not have now permanent capacity to shut down the straight anyime they want is lying to you. It's not true Didn't Iran isn't the point and we'll get to the proxies in a second, but isn't the point? Iran obviously had this capacity. One thing we learned in this war is that Iran's ability to close the strait is frankly, a more powerful weapon than the potential nuclear weapon that they were seeking. And so they obviously had that power. It's true. The oil sanctions would be lifted immediately in part because we're saying, if you reopen the strait, all the oil is going to flow and the concession is including Iranian oil. But in terms of the funding of the proxies, at least what the administration is saying about the MOU, and I think you can read that in the text is that the United States only starts to unfreeze assets. The United States only starts to lift the other the actual sanctions on Iran's economy based on performance. So getting the nuclear dust and then cooperating with the regions in the Gulf and also with the United States. So you could say you know that we're offering the opportunity to give them money. But clearly, if they're going to be funding Hezbollah, Hezbollah is going to keep attacking Israel or any of our other allies, then according to the administration's framework, they're not going to give them a penny in extra relief Okay, but the problem alough ahe they haven't quite clear about whether they're going to let money flow from other places which I think is just just as bad. It's not's absolutely no difference. You know, I got to say, you guys, my personal favorite commentator, namely me, started out saying at the very beginning of this war, that this war is on a timer And the timer, I think has run out. And the reason it's on a timer is because our Our interests and the interests of our great friend and probably staunchest ally Israel are almost the same, but they're not the same Iran, at this moment, at this moment, Iran is an existential threat to Israel. The existential threat to the United States of America right now is the Democratic socialists of America who are jinmed up you know, who are jinned up who are training their their candidates, who are well funded, completely motivated, and really a danger. And I think Trump is thinking about this. and I don't just think thats oh, it's politics. I think this is a serious, serious problem to our way of life and our country and our future. I don't see this as a deal at all. I think if I had to choose between you two guys, which would just be like one of my nightmares having to choose between you guys, But I would say that Knowles is being way too rosy. I think Ben is being a little too dark, but still it's probably worse it's probably worse than what Knowless is saying. But the first sentence out of Shapiro's mouth is the one that I go with. This is not a deal This is a ceasefire. It's an extended ceasefire that if they violate, I do seriously believe that before Trump allows himself to look like a loser, he will blow that country off the face of the earth. And so I think that what he's counting on is he's counting on he can stretch this out until the midterms and make the midterms just a little less bad than they're otherwise going to be. And I think that's what this is about, and that we should talk about it without including the danger to America that America faces from these incredibly insane leftists It's just not taking the full measure of the situation. The full measure of the situation is we are under attack from within. Israel is under attack from without All my heart is with Israel. I hope they do great. I think we should supply them with any weapons they need. But at some point We have to stop this because people want to see Trump paying attention to the world at home. And they're tired of twenty years of war in the Middle East. So number one, listen, I think it's an interesting argument. I think that there are long term ramifications to the stuff that happens right now. And of course, if things change, then I will change my opinion, right? I was very much in favor of what the president was doing at the beginning. I'm not in favor of what the president is doing right now If he changes any about faces, I'm sure I will be in favor of that. I should mention at this point, our sponsors over at Calhei suggest that forty two percent of people believe that there will be some sort of nuclear deal before October, forty eight percent before November, fifty three percent before December. I'm going to go with zero percent on this, by the way. I think the chances of a long lasting nuclear deal with the Iranians very, very low, specifically because the president does not want to do JCPOA two point zero but worse. And so I think that the idea that he is going and the only thing the IGC, here's the fundamental thing. The IRGC is not changed. They're exactly the same as they ever were. The notion that and I really this stuff I do actually think is really bad. when the vice president of the United States was supposed to head on over to Switzerland into do a grip and grin with Mohamed Kalabov, the head of the Iranian Parliament and a member of the IRGC and a person who is at least partially responsible for the murder of forty two thousand people in the streets. And by the way, the targeting of American troops and the almost killing of a couple of American pilots last week What like that is not a good look becausecause they are not reasonable people, they are not reasonable actors and elevating them to the status of they ought to shake the hands of the vice presidents, I think is a mistake for JD Vance on a political level. I think it's also a mistake for the administration on a moral level. As far as the electoral argument, Drew, this is a point that I was making on my show earlier. It's really interesting. I think that a lot of presidents tend to believe that as the economy goes, so go I. And there's some truth to that. If there's a big depression, the president gets walloped, If the economy is doing well, the president still tends to not do particularly well in the midterms One thing is, however, very, very clear, the American people hate losing wars. They hate it Hey, if you go back and remember the Biden administration It feels like it was a lifete ago. If you remember the first year of the Biden administration, inflation jumped right off the bat. You remember this? By the middle of the summer, it was already well in excess of five percent. It was headed up toward nine percent. And his approval ratings were still in the mid fifties. And the reason they were still in the mid fifties is because people can actually weather a little bit of economic turmoil. They did under Barack Obama too, and he wasn't super popular, but he wasn't super unpopular finished Joe Biden as the president, and it was the thing that everyone tends to forget was the withdrawal from Afghanistan. You can look at it theu of September, when he withdrew from Afghanistan, his opinion poll numbers went from fifty two percent all the way down to thirty nine and then they just stayed there for the rest of time. Doesn't mean all the stuff he did otherwise wasn't important. It was, but it is indicative of the fact that the American people, we don't like getting into wars But if we're going to be in a war, we really do not like losing wars and we don't like to be humiliated by tenin Pak dictatorships who have their own people out there saying, by the way, everything that I'm saying about the deal and what the deal is being interpreted as, Here's the thing. when I make a contract to somebody It has to be a meeting of the minds, right? The terms have to have a definition, and those definitions have to be accepted by both sides If you have the Trump administration saying, This amounts to the nuclear disarmament of Iran It amounts to no more support for terrorism. It it amounts to the opening of the strait. And you have the Iranians saying, this amounts to no nuclear disarmament. This amounts to the strait will not be told by us. and it amounts to Israel does not have freedom of action in Lebanon anymore Well, that's not what you normally call a meeting of the minds. That means that no one actually agrees on anything. And so what this comes down to in the end is basically we are bribing the Iranians to open the straight That's all. No, I don't think's know the other thing, the other thing you have to take into account here, Ben, and you can't just look at it without this. You know Donald Trump, like all of us, his best feature and his worst feature are the same features. And his worst feature is that big hole in his face right under his nose. I mean, the stuff that comes out of that mouth of his is first of all,s itss shelf life is about twenty minutes says, you know, you just have to kind of take it, you know with a pound of salt. So a lot of the promises he made, I mean I agree with Kowles on this. There's no way without actually just destroying this country. You can guarantee that it'll never be a nuclear power. He's gone a long way to makeaking it much more difficult for them to get back. but I don think I don't think there's any chance of him allowing himself to look like a loser in this war. I just think it's something that he cannot he can't sleep at night if that happens. J. J F right.s the bad news about JD Fance is he has definitely lowered his chances of becoming president. The good news is I think he's destroyed Knowles's future political career, which Vance and I agree on too much. But think by the way, I actually agree with this, Drew. I think that one of the things that's happening here is I do not think that President Trump was deeply embedded or invested in these negotiations, for example, right? I don't he he's sitting there and he's haggling over the details. I think frankly, his negotiators were telling him what he wanted to hear. And so that's why you hear the president saying things that are certainly not in the document. and then you read the document like, this is not in the document This I would bet dollars to donoughuts that his negotiators were telling him that basically this deal was going to give him everything he could possibly want in life. and he believed them And then he was like, okay, sounds great, right and then it turns doesn't actually do those things. Hold on. Yeah I was told that for a while that we were, you know, when people were claiming that Netanyahu or somebody dragged Trump into war, we were told we were denying Trump's agency and you know, we werere just blaming wicked advisors, but it's never the king's fault or anything. Do you really not think that Trump wants? I think he wants out I think he had a discrete interest in which out. And so he wanted to end the Iranian nuclear program, or there's no ending it, but there's seriously setting it back. I think he did seriously set it back. and he destroyed their military. and the deal is hinging on nuclear dust. so we'll see if we even get a deal out of it. But I think he wanted that. And I think other people wanted regime change. And I think Drew's point is right The US and Israel interests overlap substantially, much, if not most of the time, but sometimes they diverge a little. If I were the PM of Israel, I would insist upon regime change. For the U.S, it's a little less important and there are more domestic concerns to focus on too. And I don't think he really was gung ho about regime change. He left open the possibility. He called on the Iranians to rise up They didn't. This Mueller regime, this awful evil Mueller regime has lasted twice as long as the CIA regime that we installed in nineteen fifty three. So they're a little stronger than a lot of us gave it credit for. And I don't think he's walking into this blind or being misguided by advisors. I think he wants that. And from the beginning of this, to your point, Du, I don't mean to be too rosy about the deal. I'm just telling you what I've heard. But I said from the very beginning, I said the two ways this ends are with a deal that's going to be unsatisfactory to basically everybody or with a protracted war that's going to lead to a lot of civil war in the region. destabilizationertainly it certainly is true. It certainly is true that while Vance made a stupid statement about how all wars end with negotiations, which isn't true. It is true that all wars in the Middle East end in this blurry kind of who knows what happens? And it's you know, eventually we're going to get back to shooting at each other mess that every single one end ends like this. And I think that that's where we're at. and I actually don't think, I mean stuff that Trump has been saying about Netanyahu was at least yesterday, now he's kind of dialed it back is absurd. But I do think that Netanyahu might just lay low for like a week or just a week. Let Trump get to the point that he wants to get at. I do believe that Trump will not allow himself to look like a loser in this war. He won't let it happen Harter, you know, you notice the press is being very quiet about this. They they usually lam based him for everything he does, but the left wing press is being quiet about this because they know if he starts to feel that he's being depicted as a loser, he's going to go back in there with guns. I I think the left w press are being pretty quiet about this because they think that it's Obama's deal I mean Obama is saying that it's Obam's deal. So again, the only thing that I'm saying about, you know, President Trump and his advisors is that I agree that President Trump wants out. I agree with you, Michael, that President Trump wants out. I think whichever advisor told him that he can get out in the fashion that gives him the best possible headline is the one that he listened to even if those advisors were not exactly being straight with him about what was in the deal. Because oft think he to say that he would not be able to sleep well at night if he thought he was a loser. and Trump won't allow that to happen. But if you want to sleep well at night, you know what you need? You need your Helix mattress, mayabbe. I got a house full of them, okay? And I'm not involved in Iran negotiations at all. My biggest concerns are what cigar I'm going to smoke that day If you want to have the best sleep of your life, you need helix. They have over twenty mattress models. So whether you run hot, you sleep on your side, you need extra support, there is one built for you. They even have some cooling upgrades, great for summer nights. Helix is the most awarded mattress brand tested and reviewed by experts like Forbes and Wired, free shipping right to your door in the US, a one hundred and twenty nine sleep trial and a light limited lifetime warranty. so you can try it totally risk free. But that doesn't matter because you're going to love it and you're going to buy them for your kids if you're a good father like me. So right now, you need to go to helelix sleep dot com slash daily wire for twenty percent offs site wide twenty five percent of luxe mattresses, thirty percent off elite mattresses. I know we pillery the elites sometimes. the elite mattress we should never pillery. You should pillow your elite mattress and rest your head on it very soundly. Helleep dot com slash daily wire, twenty percent off site wide twenty five percent off lox, thirty percent off elite. Make sure to enter our show. cheheck out so they know that we sent you Eixleep d. com slash Daily wire Michael. I mean, I'm very impressed by the by the shift from pillary to pillow. That was that was that was that was more clever wordplay. Yeah I kind of kind of enjoyed it. Well, speaking of clever people Matt Nuclear is joining the Daily Wires. So for those who are unaware, Matt Nuclear is very, very able in debate. If you ever watch him on Jubilee, if you have ever seen him in the online world He is now launching a new show with us in which he is basically going to be streaming and taking all comers. You can watch it Monday through Thursday, seven PM Etern live on YouTube at the nuclear reaction. Here's some of the trailer One very young man absolutely slaughtered Amanda Seals' poisonous ideology. That's just the truth. and you're un American, you're uneducated, and your IQ is around fifty. This is a master class. Why are you so scared to make the truth? You've been making this about Israel. You sir are a hypocrite. It is Matt nuclear. Matt nuclear. Matt nuclear. No one's afraid of you guys. You're supposedly on GEI council, but I have to teach you this stuff. Why should I think that the white man is the oppressor? When bllack men are more likely to kill me The world has chosen the nuclear reaction. Matt nuclear. I believe he's joining us on the line. And you think he doesious. There we go. Yeah, there we go. Hey, man, cononggrats on the show, Re really exciting stuff. So tell us a little bit about what people can expect Yeah, so like the show iss going to be pretty chaotic. It's going to be live action debates. So like just think like radio calls, anyone is going to be able to call in and debate certain topics I'm going to have up there. They're going to be pretty controversial topics about domestic policy, foreign policy, people can call in. and we're going to be doing some like live action debates. We're going to add le a level of comedic comedy. so like sound effects and different stuff like that. And yeah, it's going to be really fun. Maybe some reactions and going over different stuff, but it's going be, you know live sort of internet shock debate, you know, stuff like Jubilee, but just with Collins, people calling into the show Hey Mike, can I ask you a quest? First of all, welcome, welcome to the team. It's great to have you on board I have the hardest time getting any left wingers to talk to me. and I'm not even a debater. I will listen to anybody and let them have their say. How are you going to get people who disagree with you to come on? They're such scaredy cats Right. So I mean, I originally actually started doing this about a year and a half ago with TikTok live debates. TikTok actually has a really good guest call in feature called multig guest. And so people will scroll on TikTok and I'll show up on their TikTok feed with a few prompts that they probably disagree whether they may agree with, whatever it may be, and they will just basically request When I actually first started doing TikTok live debates, I would have thirty people in the guest request just waiting to come in. And it's very chaotic. The chat goes crazy. It's really exciting and really fun stuff. We converse about everything, like racial politics, domestic policy, foreign policy, everything in between That's great. So Matt, you Matt is Matt is nineteen years old by the way, folks. So so Matt, for those who don't know watch it Yeah Yeah.. I mean some of us started really young. I mean, Drew was never young. so he he doesn't know. But for those of us who are once who were once young. know, Matt, so obviously you have very, very strong political opinions. How did you get where you are politically? Who were sort of your formative thinkers that you focused on Well, one I would say is definitely you. I've always been a big fan of you. I would say, even since I was like Re young before I really knew anything about politics, I would see Ben Shapiro videos of him destroying the libs. I remember that one time it was like some radical transgender person that like threatened to like send you home in an ambulance, which didn't make a lot of like logical sense. And Tom Sl obviously, I've read his book, Disparities and Dcrimination. He's also amazing. You know, Clarence Thomas, Ben Carson, many other different influential writers when it comes to liberalism and conservatism that I've, you know, obviously read and I've just been sort of creating, you my opinion from the like research I've actually been doing on different subjects and so on And then so you started out, obviously you're extremely young, compared to us, you were in Uutero and you've been you know coming up on all these writers and thinkers. Now you're joining the Daily wire. Some would say we inked a nuclear deal. So I'm glad that we got at least one of those in the world. Right Yeah. What's your v vision for the show How much of it is going to be live debate? Are you going to be you know out there mixing it up, traveling around? Are you going to take on only the libs? A you going to take on part of the right? Are you going to take on one of my favorite horses to whip, which is the libertarians? You know, whereere do you see it going Well, I'll take on anybody. If whetherre you're far right or far left or in between or whatever it may be and you have a question, you can always come up and get a debate with me. I amm going to be trying to do different speaking events and engagements, which I've kind of already done a little bit of. and I will be traveling for other live debates and just doing all sorts of different things. But regardless of where you are on the political aisle, I will have a conversation with you. I'll have a conversation with absolutely everybody. But I will also be trying to mostly keep it to like live debates But there will be moments where I'll be going over certain things on X or YouTube or reacting really quickly or even maybe going on some monologues, right? But I will try to keep it mostly you know, about live debates and also, you know answering the chat and keeping up with questions and stuff What In terms of the issues that are really animating you right now, this is one thing I've noticed. when you talk about the old Ben's Destroys videos, which just completely took over the entire world. And you know since we were all doing that out there on the college campuses and Ben is like shutting down the city of Berkeley, know I've noticed as I go to the different schools, the issues have changed a lot. It used to be in twenty sixteen Free speech was the big issue Then it became transgenderism. Then religion has really taken a big role in the last few years, which which is terrific. But you know, all of these big debates What is it that you see really animating the zoomers? What really animates you? L if you didn't have a Helix mattress, what issues would keep you up in it Well, I think the issues that would still keep me up would be like issues in reference to you know, the border, issues in reference to racial politics in America, things in reference to DEI, affirmative action, discriminations. That's actually what I first went viral for when I debated A Mand of Seals and I went on bench show for the first time. And so those issues, I think, will always keep me up, you know, leftftist social and economic policy, those things domestically speaking But I also went pretty viral also, like just generally when it comes to what I've been doing for also discussing Israel. And you know when I first started like doing TikTok lies, at first I started talking about Trump. and I also, you know, started talking about, you know Zionism and different things in reference to that. And a lot of people really got mad at me and it became chaotic and I kept doing my research and we just kept debating it over and over again. And so I think one big thing that's kind of encapsulated, you know Conservative liberal, leftist, right wing media in America is the Israel question. You know Zionism, Israeli political influence, stuff in reference to that. And I've been having a lot of a series of debates about that, especially the Israel Palestine conflict. So that's one thing when we're talking about in regards to foreign policy that I also discuss quite frequently White people are' sort of Israel. haven' A arere people talking about them? P I didn this news to me? Yeah. Yeah, very news big news. When you look at the country s since you have you have no past, you have no reference points because you're only just right. When you look at the country, do you think like the good guys are winning? the good guys are losing I think the good guys, I mean, I don't know whether or not the good guys are necessarily losing. I think that there is a hyper fixation on Israel, especially from the far right and the far left. It's kind of creating this sort of horseshoe theory phenomenon where like people like Cen Gig or Anic Asparian are sort of in alignment with other people like Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens and all sorts of other people that are on the right like Nick Fuentz, for example. And so they're creating a sort of weird coalition to go against I believe Western values that, well, Islam isn't really a threat and that Israel really is evil in comparison to the entire Middle East and that you know you can really you know make allies with anybody regardless of beliefs and so on. But I believe that that has been a popular thing and that they have been winning in terms of popularity when it comes to that. But I agree with what Ben said when he was discussing that and responding to that popularity of opinions, you know don't validate them and that facts still don't care about your feelings. So regardless of how popular it is, it doesn't really matter, you know Also popular for a podcaster and popular for a guy running for nationwide reelection, to entirely different things. Talk about diverging interests. that one there's no doubt about.. You mentioned the economics and the class warfare and obviously Thomas Soul is excellent on that. What do you make? I've noticed this too, a little bit on the right, but much more on the left Elon Musk, who is one of the most productive individuals of any of our lifetimes, if not the most productive, he becomes the world's first trillionaire as he's creating all these really great products, preserves the American public square on Twitter, and everyone hates him for it Do you see a lot of that kind of class envy, resentment? Obviously now the young left, especially is willing to take on the moniker of socialism? that Is that are we just careening toward communism forever It almost kind of seems like it. Well, the left always sort of sort of like tries to fight some sort of social injustice, whether it comes to billionaires or wealthy people or people that don't feel oppressed, et cetera. I would say that Yeah, that is something that the left has been discussing and has been sort of like I could say Lan towards right? Like am Mamani Rhit to Lib Elon Omar, AOC. all of these sorts of people are calling themselves democratic socialists and they sort of align more with those ideals. Bernie Sanders has been running on this whole thing with with taxing the billionaires and so on and so forth. But again, I still think that they believe that Elon Musk has a trillion dollars the same way that Scrooge McDuck had a trillion dollars. It's like, you know, Elon Musk just goes into his, you know his his spot And there's like a trillion coins or something like that. You know what I mean? Which is not the case. I mean, if you were to rapidly liquidate those assets, it'd be horrible for everyone, including four hundred one Ks, people's pensions, different stock options and so on and so forth. So it's not the way people envision it, right? It's the asset value of the company increasing because people are actually interested in purchasing products from his companies. it's not the same way that' imping money, which is the misunderstanding that people have. That's obviously true. And I think you know socialism and communism in all its forms is just evil and Satanic. But there is an interesting kind of critique that comes out of wealth inequality. One is that the palace is never safe when the cottage is unhappy. But then the other one is that we have a right to private property, nevertheless, this comes from Catholic social teaching, that there is a universal destination of goods. In other words, we have real rights to private property, but we also have obligations to each other in society And so people are trying to pretend like you know Elon is doing backflips in his pile of gold. But what occurs to me from that critique is Elon actually is living up to those responsibilities. He putside his companies for a second to go help the government become more efficient. He puts forty four billion dollars to put his money where our mouth is to go preserve the public square because conservatives were being discriminated against. So in a way, I think he's like the worst example of a guy who's not civic minded or irresponsible or. Okay, so this is where this is great. I'm going pel you knows The moment has come. I was set you. I was setting you up this conversation. I know, here we go. Okay, so The social good that Elon Musk does is not because he went into Doge, which again, was overall not supremely successful. Look overall good that he does is called Tesla in SpaceX. That is the overall good that he does. And this is one of the things that you know, it's interesting. I've been making my way through the vice Pident's new books Obviously he's on a book tour and we all get free copies of the books So thanks to the publisher. I appppreciate it. And the vice president takes a position with regard to the meritocracy. The book is largely a repudiation of Hillbelology It really is kind of fascinating. His book is essentially Hilology was me being seduced into the meritocratic secularism of the Yale elite. And then I discovered God and religion again. and now I don't really believe in that stuff anymore. And I really actually much more believe in sort of Catholic social teaching, Rum Nvirum and the rest of it. That really is essentially the theme of the book. And one of the things that he is constantly talking about in the book In again, almost Tucker Carlsonesque fashion, he has a line in there where he says, you know, we don't work for the economy. The economy works for us, which of course is ch of a bizarre it's a bizarre category error. It's like saying we don't work for free speech, free speech works for us. I mean you're talking about a reality in the world that is called a market and the idea that there ought to be somebody at the top of that market legitimately figuring out the best redistribution of wealth and resources is a massive centralized government error And so you I think that when we talk about Elon, the resistance to Elon's wealth is driven by a few things. One is just pure envy. Obviously, you see this. I'm not accusing the vice president of this. I think that you're seeing a lot of people who are doing me pure envy. Elon's really rich. I'm not as rich as Elon. I wish I were as rich as Elon. No one should be as rich as Elon, unless it were me. But really, there shouldn't be anyone as rich as Elon And you're seeing a lot of that. But I do think that there is also a thing where it's like there ought to be some sort of Bizarre guilt that attends to success that the only way that you can sort of justify high levels of material success is by donating a library And I just don't think that that's right. I think that the reality of the free markets is that if you actually want to ensure that the cottage is secure, Michael, as you put it, then what you actually need is a free market system. The big problem with societies that have castles and cottages is that they werere expropriative is that you're talking about feudilist societies in which there was literally a fixed pie of wealth. and the and and the Lord would come in and take part of the pie. But that's not what you're talking about with the free market. No better than our ancestors. I agree with a lot of that point. Obviously, the main social good that Elon has done is to create these great innovations and you know this great wealth and that but he feels a responsibility toward others. And I think then your example actually kind of makes my point, especially when it comes to free speech, which is that, you know we don't live for free speech. free speech is in advance of our society. It's not that you want some fat cat central planner sitting on top What you want is just ordinary guardrails and putting things in the proper place. So when you go to the guys who really promoted free speech, John Locke, John Milton John Stuart Mill, for some reason,'s lot of Johns, all of them are pointing out that free speech is for something. It's not an end unto itself, but it's for getting a danger this is a dangerous argument Hold g onold g. If you want to read the full argument, you can speeless controing words, controlling minds, number one national I read available Great books. I think issoppping up my desk here. I' a short leg on my desk. But again, that's not even I have other critiques of free speech But what I'm saying is the guys who actually advanance free speech, Wh are all of the classical liberals from whom we get our free speech tradition, Th are the arguments that they were making. That's not even just my argument. And so when it comes to social responsibility for the economy, I love JD's new book. I think it's terrific, including when he's talking about the economy, there's this great chapter where he's it's called The Dismal Science, which is a line that he takes from Thomas Carlyisle, the conservative, But even Carlisle is kind of borrowing it from Edmund Burke. You know, the founder of modern Anglo American consonservatism, Edmund Burke decries the transformation of politics. which he says has lost the age of chivalry, and the age of economists, sophestters and calculators has succeeded. And so when you look at an economy, you say, look, obviously we want a lot of economic growth But it's for something else. And a classic example would be, if we were just serving GDP Well, we could increase GDP by legalizing and prostitution. And then our GDP actually would go up, there would be more measured economic activity, but that would actually be bad for society. And I guess the idea, which is a conservative critique of liberalism going all the way back to Burke and further, is that you can't actually quantify everything. You know, Cynic is one who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing And so we have to remember, we want all that wealth. we don't want to become commies, but we need it to be for something good. and we can know the good. And if we can't know something about the good, then we can't have self government. Okay, so this is ret tom argument. Well take it witht. Don't take it up with me. No. I mean I mean, look, look, first of all, it's a dangerous argument when applied to free speech because that's an entirely different matter. Those two things don' don't go together at all. You know, if you are not in charge of what you think and what you say, then guess who is going to be in charge of what you think and what you say? It's going to be Pontius Pilate. Why? Because Rome has all the power. And yeah, as someone who was alive when Socrates was poisoned and was Christ was crucified, I can tell you that it never works to give authorities the right to censor your speech. But when it comes to the economy, this is something where I'm closer to Ben on this. I dove I do believe that a society should be able to condemn Business practices that are legal, but reprehensible. But I don't necessarily believe that that makes them a crime. And I think that that's a really big difference. I think you when the boycott went on against Bud Light for putting that clown on that transgender clown on their product, I thought that was brilliant. I'm one hundred percent in charge of that. But to have somebody say, oh, no, that's illegal because we don't like transgenderism Totally different. The free market is a beautiful, beautiful thing. You are right. It is not the measure of good. And if it were the measure of good, then drug deals and prostitution would be okay. But it outside of crimes, I think it's up to society and up to the culture to condemn wickedness and evil and to be allowed in their localities limit. So I don't think for instance, you have a right to open a casino anywhere, but I do think that if the state says you're going to allow the casino to be there, that's a different matter. Yeah. I mean I agree with I agree with a Cip., but I think there's a broader critique and Matt will maybe appreciate this sort of take from Soul. So this is a sooul take on the I think extraordinarily flawed argument that I first saw actually from Janis Verafakas, who is a socialist economists, this idea that you know, the Economic statistics can't capture the value of his sunset. Yeah Okay. This is Burke makes' this point. I mean, you saw you saw conservatives first then It's wrong. Okay. The reason I will say that it's wrong is not because of course, economics can capture the value of a sunset, but that is a category error. Economics is not trying to tell you how much a sunset is worth. The point is, of economics, what are you willing to trade for what? That is literally what economics is about. And so when you say I'm going to completely elide the question of cost and benefit analysis in public policy because you can't value a sunset that ignores the fact that we routinely value sunsets. We do it by determining how much we are willing, for example, to pay for light. We determine what we are willing to pay in order to enjoy a sunset on a vacation as opposed to doing it from know the back room of our house or apartment. The entire science of economics, is' not a science idea of economics that it's about trade offff. And so if you would seek to elide the trade offff by pretending We are that we don't put a value on anything that most things So there's an example that Jie uses in his book that I find particularly absurd from this particular chapter. And the example that he uses is with regard to Japan. And basically he starts his chapter by saying that people are talking about stagnation of the economy in Japan, which has been a massive problem for Japan for legitimately two decades. If you go back to the nineteen eighties, Michael Crichon was writing books about Japan was going to take over the United States And if you got to the nineteen ninetyies, the Japanese economy plummeted, and then just stagnated. and it's been stagnating since then. I mean, literally for thirty years, it's been stagnating. And he says, well, I don't believe in economics basically, because I went to Japan and I tasted their strawberries. And I wish I were kidding but'm. He literally It's a great strawries. It's a great chapter. It's one of the worst takes I think I've ever seen. He makes the case that because strawberries taste better in Japan Therefore, economics can't measure that strawberries taste better Well, that's not true. If you have a better tasting strawberry from Japan in the United States, some people will be willing to pay more for that. And actually, if Jadie had done half a second of research on, for example, Japanese strawberries, the topic that he is writing about, he would understand the reason that strawberries taste better in Japan is because they are a delicacy in Japan, and there is a full scale luxury industry for strawberries in Japan that is designed toward making the best kind of strawberry. So the worst strawberries tastese better because in Japan, when you go over to somebody's house, you don't bring a bottle of wine, you can bring like a hundred dollarars hundred basket of strawberries So in the same way that economics drives toward better quality at lower prices, certain products in the United States, that is also true in Japan. It doesn't mean that economics doesn't work in Japan. That's like making the argument that when you go to Ethiopia the coffee there is really, really, really good. Therefore, economics can't measure that actually Ethiopia is economically Rich and doing great. like it is a completely discombobulated argument. and beyond which, the entire argument of his book is essentially that Western societies have been secularized and therefore have lost the qualities that make them good and worthwhile. and that we need to get back to Christianity in order to do that. I will just point out that Japan is ninety eight percent shinto and murdered all of the Catholic priests who are attempting to go there, attempting to convert E every. But if he likeess that much, maybe needs great. Yeah The thing about that chapter though, is I think you're missing the point of it, believe it or not. You know, when he's talking, I can't believe you Michael. I love No I loved that chapter. I love the title You know, he's going to be pillored as some left winger or something, but ironically, the argument he's making and the title he's using to do it is the original conservative critique of liberalism, liberalism, which makes the issue is not involving economics, obviously, it's making an idol out of economics. So the line that JD mentions about the strawberries is he says Look, you know if the Japanese are willing to pay six dollars six for a carton of strawberries and someone else pays six dollars for another carton of strawberries somewhere else, and one cart of strawberries is better than the other, then the market has actually not taken into account the difference between those things. And so it's kind of neily exam, But's not true. It's not true on its most fundamental level. If I went to Japan, I would also pay six dollars six for the really good strawberries. Right I'd beat in Japan. But the point But the basic point is that the price six dollars doesn't take into account qualitative differences. I mean that's not true. It's in different countries. If I went to Japan,'s crappy strawberries, I would have to sell them for three dollars. But if you'll all me to It's like a gigantic economic err. If you'll allow me get to my point, the point, I think we would all agree that a price does not take into account all of the qualitative differences If that were the case, then my delicious Mayflower cigar for seventeen dollars and hanging out with a hooker on some shady part of town for seventeen dollars would be the same thing, but they're qualitatively different. So it's not to and get for seventeen dollars. I know Well, listen, I'll give you a phone number. I I got a great guy. I mean girl. I got anyyway, hold on. to the show. going off theow. So the point is, like when JD says I realized that economics was all fake He's obviously exaggerating here. I mean, this guy worked for a venture capital firm. He's obviously not saying that economics itself is fake, but he's making this critique that I think is so important. This is why I don't think it's just a flipping frivolous example It is very important and conservatives from the very beginning of conservatism, like three hundred years ago, have recognized that, yes, we want growth We want trade to a considerable degree, but we can't be putting the cart before the horse. I mean, these are arguments that were being made by George Washington by Alexander Hamilton. Michael. He's also setting up a massive drumm and then burning it. setting a strum and bingting up a and. I think the truth is that Ben ages with Ben agrees with this. He's just so used to a society that has been talked out of that has been talked out of free trade and been talked out of capitalism that he's on the defense of all the time. But you basically agree that, you know, prostitution, no matter how much it makes is not a goodobodybody nobody's even arguing that. The problem is that JD's argument in that strategy is an argument that proves too much as with most of his arguments It's an argument that essentially says there should be limitless capacity for right thinking people to be able to restrict the markets as they see fit in order to achieve social justice. No the only limitation on that he establishes zero limiting principle literal liming principle from within Catholic social teaching, which you point out is what the book is about is subsidiarity among other things. So there are all these limit principlesichel federal s Michael that's not a liming principle The limiting principle is what he agrees with And that's not a limiting principle. okay? Like the limiting princi and subsidarity, which' built into our government. The idea, I understand local that decisions are made the most comp local level possible. wait so JD is now in favor of San Francco legalizing prostitution and pot No, there are obviouslyious there are obviously limits beyond that as well. And in a deliberateative self government, you obviously try to persuade your fellow citizens. But there are federal laws against POT, at least. We'll see how much longer that goes on. But anyway, yes, but regardless,. I have to say goodye to Matt Matt Nuclear. I' very excited for you to add even more nuclear fire. Great to this to this show and to the whole network so everybody go following that nuclear. No, I think look, I don't think you really believe that the vice president or any other conservative who shares his view or someone who believes in Catholic social teaching, actually thinks we should have a Palit Bureau, you know, and have Stalin dictating the price of strawberries or anything else. I don't think you really believe that. Well, no, I think that what the Vice presresident believes is that he and his friends should determine what the limiting principles are. And I do not like this My whole point of having general principles of equal applicability is that there should be delegated powers to the government beyond which you cannot go. And when it gets to Catholic social teaching about economics, there are no places where power cannot go. There may be prudence that you apply. That is a human quality that you apply to a place of no actual checks and balances. And this is where I start But then that is not moreort of much don't you That really is. I mean, you know, you get to too and Ches Misanu, which is rewriting or it''s like I'm fully aware it' not of Catholic social teaching. I'm fully aware it's not part of Catholic social teaching, which is why I don't think the Catholic social teaching should be the predicate for American government. No,ice president saying, you're misrepresenting Catholic social teaching. I mean just, if you just look at one of the great exampl of Catholic social teaching, John Paul I seconde's Chentesei Misan', which is awriting of R, Navarum which is where all of this comes from. He extols the virtues of the free market. He just points out that there are also social responsibilities along with it. JP two was one of the men who took down communism. So I think in this limited example, I think you're taking down a straw man here. I guess the way we'll find out is if JD becomes president and he installs a collectivist Pit Bureau and he outlaws strawberries specifically for Ben Shapiro I will admit I was wrong, but I don't think that's really what he's arguing. Well, I mean, I' you're wrong If it turns out though he comes in and he and he decides to outlaw vast swathes of industry, tax vas swathes of industry, redistribute vasswathes of industry all to his particular liking, and that is the platform upon which he runs. Again, when you reject meritocracy on the basis that it's some sort of hoodwinkery, I start to have some very serious problems, especially when the way that you became famous is by participating in the meritocracy in the first place. But you know, enough about JD's book. first, let's talk about, again, entrepreneurship. I'm a f Kns actually is a fancy. The truth is that when Knows and I argue, it's typically over about three yards of territory on a one hundred yard field, but we make it sound like it's about eighty yards of in any case, we both like entrepreneurship. and odds are that you've spent more time on your next marketing campaign than your insurance policy. And honestly, I get it.obbody Nbody starts a business because they're passionate about coverage limits and policy language. you start a business to build something That's what it's for. Now here's the thing. As your business grows, so does your exposure? You hire employees, you expand operations, you take on bigger clients, bigger contracts, every new opportunity, a new risk, That's just reality, which is exactly why I want to tell you about SuperSure. SuperSure is the super agency built for growing businesses, licensed in every state, business insurance and employee benefits year round support for you and your team, not once a year You're round. And here's what I actually like. They've built tools that help you understand what you're buying. Theyir fine print facts tool. translates your policy into plain English, what's covered, what's not where the gaps are? Their business value calculator tells you what your business is actually worth. becausecause before you protect something, you'd better know what you've built. Here's the reality. insurance should not be a once year afterthought. should be a strategy. go to supper sureure. com slash shapiro thats super sureure. com slash Sapiro, one superagency, one powerful platform. All your policies in one place. againgain at superersure d. com slash Shapiro paid for by suuper sureure inssurance agency LLC, a licensed insurance agency You know one thing I love is people named Michael. And it's why I'm very pleased to bring on right now our pal, Michael the Rosa, so we can all beat up some Democrats. Michael, thank you for being here. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for having me So we've been mostly focusing on the right so far because obviously we' got this Iran deal and we've got JD's new book and all this and we're kind of the ruling party right now. We should remember, there are still Democrats, and to Drew's point, they are still trying to come back and they'll probably do very well in the midterms, just historically speaking. So what's the state of play right now? Are the DemMs just the party of Graham Platinner now Nazi tattoos and you know abusing women? or is there any or is Rammanuel going to rege the Dems into a major governing party Well, I certainly think there have been people on the left who have made it easier for Republicans to call us the party of Graham Platinner or Mum Donny, I'm hoping that's not the case. Look, Rom is my personal favorite. him and Newsom, I'm big fans of. But I think you hear Rom, I think Rom is a sleeper candidate from twenty twenty eight. I think he's talking the way a nominee actually talks. a successful nominee actually talks I think actually his biggest strength is what some people view as his weakness as an insider Um, but ninety nine point nine percent of the country has no idea that he's an insider and really doesn't know who he is And I think when they see and hear that kind of fire in the belly, this sort of agility he has sort of fight in him to fight on policy, by the way And the way he's talking about issues that matter to the working class. I think that's going to really resonate. He'd be my he wouldd be someone I'd be happy to see as the nominee. I also I hate to say it I'm pretty impressed by R Emanuel. Like, I mean to be terrible president but I'm pretty impressed him I was Rum fire of California makes you a fan of Gavin Newsen Well, I don't think records matter anymore in politics. If that if records mattered, JD Vance would never have been on the ticket and Donald Trump has changed his mind on so many things. I don't think those things matter anymore. Sure, he has a lot to defend if he's held to account and if the voters have a really nuanced and complex a depth of understanding of regulatory and tax policy. sure. I'm sure there's a lot he'll have to defend there. But I don't know if that actually matters more than his ability to command a stage. to throw punches, to debate. The PR and communications aspect of politics is a little bit more weighted these days, even for voters. Mikea, when you look at a twenty eight race, you've mention Rob Manuel, you mentioned Gavin Newsom. the sort of major factor that people keep ignoring in the Democratic primaries is of course, the outsized weight of the black vote in places like South Carolina. It iss what put Joeiden over the top against Bernie Sanders. It is what put Hillary Clinton over the top actually against Bernie Sanders back back in twenty sixteen. And obviously it was very helpful to Barack Obama. When you look at, you know, some of the candidates you're talking about, like a Ramaanual or a or or a Gavin Newsom. Is there anyone else that you're looking at who has the capacity to capitalize on the I believe fifty six percent of the voting population in the Democratic primaries in South Carolina is B black. I believe it's a majority and a huge percentage of the south as well. Given the heavy sort of majority minority coalition built by Democrats in these states. What does that mean for a Democratic primary where again, a lot of their top candidates are white, but you might get a West more or Kamala Harris is probably going to run again. What do you make of that? Yeah, I mean, you're not wrong about the coalition the voting coalition in South Carolina. I think that some of the I think the Clintons had a history with Um, Black voters. I think Barack Obama was unique and appealing for black voters for a lot of historic reasons Um And I think this could be the first probablyably open test. for South Carolina as a primary state, assuming that the calendar stays keeps South Carolina front and center. you know, and that's sort of the next big test of the DNC chair is to sort of establish the calendar. That's like one of his only jobs. So we need to see where South Carolina falls in the calendar although I'm just not convinced that. And you know, also Biden had the advantage of having Jim Clyberurn come out and endorse us at a very low point in our campaign. That was do or die, to be honest Um I don't know if South Carolina is enough for any one nominee. I just don't believe that because of I how many states come after it and they sort of vote rich delegate rich populations that come after it. Um So let mean look it Do does raise the question of sort of moderate candidate versus not moderate candidate, which you're bring up here, which is that actually South Carolina voters have tended toward the more moderate candidate in a wide variety of presidential primaries For the Democratic P partarty in the recent past. But the Democratic Party, as you've also been mentioning, is running headlong off a cliff in terms of some of these primary candidates like a Grandam Platinner in Maine or like Abduul Al Sayed in Michigan really embracing some of the more radical aspects of their own party. How wide is that gap going to open before twenty twenty eight? What happens to the party if you have, say AOC declare for the presidency and also a P Bota judg and also a Gavin News I. It's going to be a very crowded field. and how do you see that breaking down because the nice thing for the radicals is they tend to coalesce around one person. And meanwhile, all of the pseudo moderates tend to fragment a little bit. Yeah. And you know, based on my last experience in the primary with the Bidens and that in that twenty nineteen, the doldrs of nineteen and then into those first couple of months U look, I think on MS now and sort of the progressive podcast echoed chamber space I think that the left makes all of the noise. They're certainly louder at making the noise That's not really where voters in the in a deemocratic primary nationally were in twenty twenty. They were not, you know, the media the the mainstream media was more obsessed with Bernie and Warren and even Botigge to an extent I mean, Warren, Elizabeth Warren got third in her home state of Massachusetts Bernie really ran for president twice now and couldn't make the case himself for president to Democratic voters in a national competitive primary So it just feels to me based on voting behavior across the country in these primaries and the way Democrats set them up that the silent majority of actual Democratic primary voters really aren't all that interested in what the left is offering That just hasn't been the case so far. Who knows? Maybe that chang is in twenty twenty four it just hasn't been the case yet. So Um I'm interested to see if that happens. I don't think it will. I also think As you mentioned, we got to figure out and we'll know in a couple of weeks, where we are in Michigan where this Platinar Monddani experiment goes in Maine, and we'll certainly see how the Mondani experiment goes in Maine by November I think at that point we're going have a better idea on how that wing of the party is going to fare. What do you think? this is a little bit of a da. I' sorry Michael, quick a quick quick data thing actually, according to our friends over at Cowsh sponsor at the Cowshi Ladder still favoreor by fifty seven percent of the peopleeople who are in that market short senac. He's down a little Ben Collins. And by the way I bet that doesn't change And I think that's the uniqueness of Maine.e Keep in mind, Maine is the oldest state in the country by medium age Um You know, it was really funny hearing a incredible, you know, sort of legacy mainstream reporter who was telling me he was up there talking to this Democratic voter more of a Bernie bro kind of grandma, as she called herself Um, Loves Bernie not an election that goes by where she will not vote for Susan Collins. She is Susan Collins all the way. That woman could do no wrong And that sort of explains the gap The Biden Collins voter nine points in twenty twenty that was impossible to poull accurately. So I have no doubt that the polls and the prediction markets will have Platinner and the energy and money will be around him for the next couple of months, but Um The Collins people are smart. They've done this before and they've been underestimated before. And on election day They had their race forty three, forty two Uh Collins And the rest of the country and the rest of the Democratic Party did not So they know how to do this up there and she can afford to be outspent three to one and still win by ten points, apparently Michael, before I let you go, just one last question. too what degree does woke still matter and is it an albatrross for the libs? If we're years past peak woke and the Dems are trying to run away from it, it seems. But you know we are constantly hanging these clips calling God non binary or referring to women as our neighbors with uteruses all around James Talorico, and it's hard for to run away from it. Ben did a great job when he went on Gavin Newsom show of just constantly pinning Newsom back on the trans issue. There was like a Nsom shaped hole in the wall. He wanted to get as far away from it as he could. To what degree do you think that's still a live issue? going into the midterms It's very much a alve issues. and it's very much a live issue. I'm actually surprised that Republicans are and maybe they will, maybe as we start moving into more TV ad season when all these primaries are set and done That is the biggest vulnerability in my view for Democrats because they don't there is you will hear lock step talking points and unity on messaging around the economy You will you will you have no idea what you're going to get when you ask a Democrat office holder, candidate about trans issues. There is is the most vulnerable issue because they just don't know how to answer it. And it's shocking to me I mean I'm a former NCAA swimmer There's no way in hell I can tell you that deemocat that biological men should be competing in women's sports. I can just say that. and ninety percent of And the vast majority, and I think the v the silent majority of Democrats Probably Democratic voters feel that way My My Democratic, u You know, Democrats who I admire a lot in for their abilities and their talents in Congress just tie themselves in knots trying to find a way to answer that question and it's so easy. And you'll hear people like Jason Crow who probably is very ambitious and very talented and skilled at communicating hell he'll say, you know, well, this this is so infrequent. This is such a small part of, you know, society. Well, if it's such if it's so infrequent and it's so small, the portion of people who who actually do compete or of trans who compete in sports, Why can't you just say That's right. I'm not a former NCAA anything, and I find it very easy to say that too. Michael, wonderful to see you. Thank you very much for coming on. Everybody go follow Michael Losa. 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