Trivia Challenge and Final Thoughts

Still waiting in line Again That's time you will never get back. Save time and money with stamps dot comot Over four million businesses have skipped the line with stamps dot com. Join them to save up to ninety percent of carrier rates from your computer or phone right now Print posted for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to stamps. com and use code podcast for a free welcome gift. Taxes a fee is a b. It's smart to always have a few financial goals, and a really smart one you can set, earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can. this, Discover automatically matches all the cash backack you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it, and we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover dot com slash credit card. Everyone treats summer like it owes you happiness, long days, pool parties, your best life on a loop So what does it mean when you feel worse? The summer blues are real. It's why summer is one of the busiest stretches of the year for people starting therapy. Grow Thrapapy is here for all the moments when you decide you want more, more support, more clarity, more tools Gro connects you with thousands of high quality licensed therapists across the US, offering both virtual and in person sessions, nights and weekends. The therapist you want takes your insurance on G. Gro accepts over one hundred twenty five insurance plans. Sessions average twenty one dollars with insurance and some pay as little as zero dollars depending on their plan Visit growtherraapy. com slash start now today to get started. That's growtherapy. com slash start now. P. com slash start now Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan Welcome to the Saturday Slama Jam here on the Daily on today's show. We have Fred Kats joining us and we're talking about all the trades. What has happened to the NBA? I feel like there's been so many trades that have happened that have like been head scratching and we're going to break it all down here thed Cats and then we'll do Some trivia with me as always, this my good friend Alex Speers. Alex, What's up? What's up Andrew And Our guest, Fred Katz of the athletic, one of my favorite people Cats of shoot podcast Great show, Fred. welcome to the show I thank you, long time listener, firstirst time caller. I'm really excited. Also super nervous is the only podcast I get genuinely unbelievably nervous for because the trivia just humiliates me every single time. In the wake of the Jalen Brown trade, friend of the show, Jared Weiss wrote speaking to people around the league, I still have not found someone who thinks this Jalen Brown trade makes sense. Fred Now that you've had some time to think about it Does this trade make sense to you from the Boston side at all Here's what I'll tell you. Hey Jared Weiss, tellell me, you're not talking to the Celtics without telling me you're not talking to the Celtics. Because if you ask the Celtics, it makes sense I mean, they did it They did do it.. They did it I think the way to make it make sense is that the Celtics felt like their situation with Jayalen Brown had gotten so untenable that they could not go twenty four more hours while having him on the team And that is kind of the only way to make it make sense Otherwise I'm just like I don't really get the return because the reality is if you told me He told me forty eight hours ago Paul George is definitely getting traded. I know Paul George is getting traded What do you think the return is? I would say, okay, it's probably matching salary And then they have to attach one or two first round picks in order for Philadelphia to get off of him. In that sense Now I think Philadelphia probably gave up better picks than they would have to if it was just Paul George for actual matching salary But in that sense, Jalen Brown Cceptually is not that far off here from matching salary and he's got an extra year left Paul George doesn't have, but he's also a way better player Thimpaul George is right now, a healthier, more durable player than Paul George is right now. And even if you're on the low end of Jayen Brown. He's still, I mean, The seventh best player on a team is still a good player Soill someone who gets burned Still a good fer You still think he's a good player. Like no one doesn't think Jalen Brown's a good player. He' a toree with the finals MVP. He was the finals NVP. They won the NVA Championship with him being the finals NVP. Of course he's a good player. He was sixth in MVP boating This year. Yes, like like the season that just finished. Yeah, like like a few weeks ago when it came out He was sixth in MVP voting And there were people who were furious that he wasn't top five He his second team M NBA this year. He was really good. He ever just twenty nine in a game I mean, I I thought it was a really great get by Philly, I understand the contract is really large, but even if you view it as purely an asset play If you're like, this is a distressed asset and the Celtics are settling for something way below what you thought it would be Uh, then capitalize on that good player. So I I obviously really liked it from Phillys perspective. That's not something that I mean, I think anybody would really disagree with and I was a little founded by Boston settling for that level when they were like a Hugo Gonzalez away from aching just that one guy and getting yonest. Okay, that's the part that I can't like square because that was that was two weeks ago So was that reporting wrong? which it seemed that was coming from a lot of places that they had a very competitive offer for Yanis And that yeah, maybe like Yugo Gonzalez was like a deciding factor one way or the other It's hard for me to believe that that was true now looking at where this is gone Um I don't know either way, far be it from me to everybody's reports when when they might know more about what was going on in that situation than than I do. What I will say is that I think I'm going to quote a great greatreat philosopher C who we all I would say we all F to respect and his name is Jalen Rose And it is another jailing Really the trailblazer of Jayalen's true. the first Jaling. Jayen Brown wouldn't exist without Jailing Rose. Well, I guess that's not true. His name would just be like Frank or something. It just wouldn't be Jailing But it Jelen Rose It says You don't Wait now I'm forgetting the Jill and Rose quote. Oh that a scamble the set Now I remember they were honestly that to quote quoting another person quoting a quote No, you're going to forget it again. just say D Deon Waders Deon Waders when I was covering him once said, you know, was someone asked him about like having a bad shooting night and he was like, you know, it's like that Kobby quote. I'm not going to go over nine. then he was like You know, I forgot the quote, but it's a good quote. Yeah Anyway Jayen Rose says, you don't get what you deserve in a negotiation. You only have you don't get what you deserve You only get when you have the power to negotiate And since the Yana situation with the entire league knowning disgruntled the Jalen Brown situation in Boston has become I just don't think Boston had the power to negotiate. I don't think they have the leverage in any of these talks U Look, here's what, here's what I will say like Brian Winhorse went on Hoop Collective and he talked about how there are, I forget exactly how he phrased it. there are people with the Celtics that thought that Derek White had a better year than Jayalen Brown did lastast year that Drag White was really their best player I mean, that's one hundred percent true Like that's one hundred percent true. And it's not just people with the Celtics. Kenny Atkinson in a Game against the Celtics Before a game against the Celtics March early March Cleveland was playing the Celtics and Kenny Atkinson before a game said in a pre game press conference Derek White was a top five player in the NBA Top five player in the NBA Mhm thenen I ask them a follow up question about it because I happen to be sitting there and he did not like I was like, whoa, top five player Do does mean top five underrated player? Like Yeah was like made it very clear. he was talking about top five player and here's why all these analytics backing up. Wh And then I asked them again about it or I ask them about it after the game and he was like, no, I st it clearly, like I wasn' exaggerating or anything like that and made it very clear that was what he thought Kenny Akins a coach of the year You know, like People think Dark White is really, really good That being said I mean, I think Jalen Brown, I understand context are different and that kind of stuff, but I think Jalen Browns' probably get a larger return than Walker Kessler does In the u in the ongoing very interesting Analytics versus I test debate. Is this season setting up? Is this going to be the final battle of analytics versus I test in terms of what happens this season with the Celtics and Jalen Brown Well we got a definitive winner. You know what? You know what bothers me about all this The Jelen Brown conversation is not even analytics versus ITest. It's not even what it is It's just it's just main to stream stats versus on off That's all it is Yeah. That's literally all it is. It's just like, well, the on offs for Jalen Brown aren't good. That's not good analytics That's not good analytics analysis. That's not good analytics worse. If all you're doing, you can find analytics that tell you that Jylen Brown is not the quality of player he is. You can find advanced numbers that tell you. he's not the quality of player that people think he is, that he's not a top six player or top eight player, top ten player or whatever else, top fifteen You can you can make the statistical case about that U Anyone is saying to you, well the onos aren't good and thus he just must not be that good They're not doing their due diligence on their statistical research. And that's all this is. It's just like, well, the Celtics were six points per one hundred possessions worse with Jayen Brown off the court this year whichich is impacted in part by the fact that they have an unbelievable bench in some of the lineups they played when he was off They still had a very good net rating when he was on he held up a lot of lineups with like weaker guys Jillen Brown had a really, really, really good year this past year. I put him second team all NBA didn't really have any doubts about putting him third team on NBA like It was very cleanly second team all NBA for me And All this conversation is is just like points, rebounds, assists versus on offs That's all it is. And it's like, you know what I actually watched this and I'm like, I think everyone is wrong Like I think everyone's wrong. If you're just grading a guy on points rebounds and assists You're doing it wrong. You're just doing it wrong. There are a lot of guys who are better than their numbers. There are a lot of guys who are worse than their numbers. And if you're just scing a guy onaz on offs, you're definitely wrong too So like you're all wrong, everyveryone's wrong, your process is wrong, everybody's wrong This is why I don't like coming on this show. Everyone's going hate me at the end of it, but like It's become so silly. The conversation is so silly I'm tired, guys Thank you. Thankk you, Fred. Take that for Dana Fred You wrote an article for the athletic last week titled Nick should foot seconde apron Bill, Not doing so. would be even more costly. Now Mitchell Robins is now in Boston And recently replied to OG on an Instagram post quote, I tried, brother. I didn't want this to happen. Hopefully the truth comes out at some point. How significant of a loss is this for the Kicks as they look to defend their title next season That's a totally significant loss. I mean, he is att worst, one of the best backup centers in the Leakue Best, the best backup center in the NBA. Stan Van Gundi six man of the year vote for him ing on to it. He is one of the greatest offens of rebounders of all time. When the Kicks missed the shot when he was on the court this year. He got the rebound twenty three percent of the time That if he played enough minutes to qualify for the League leaders, that would have shattered shattered Dennis Robmins single season record for offensive rebound rate in one year I mean, he is just one of the greatest Offensive rebounders out there. I think he's a great fit Boston. He's a great fit with Joezoua. Jo Mzoua has gushed over Mitchell Robinson in the past and that's not just through his words and press conferences and that kind of stuff. It's also through his actions. He was the first coach who started intentionally fouling Mitchell Robinson before his team got into the bonus and was just intentionally fouling him into the bonus and made it very clear that the reason why was because he wanted to get Mitchell Robinson off the court as soon as possible I don't think there is a coach in the NBA who spends a higher percentage of his life thinking about and dreaming about offensive rebounding and extra possessions more than Joe Mizoua does. And now he's got the best offensive rebounder in the league who is also, I mean Mitchell Robinson a very good defender. He is a Good a rim protector He's a very good pick and roll deffender Great defensive instincts. He's a playoff riser He's had some huge playoff series and some huge playoff moments. He can guard out in the perimeter. He can guard down low, he's versatile, likeike he he's the only thing with him is the health. If he if he could play twenty eight minutes, seventy five games a year He got a lot more. He'd be getting a lot more than forty seven million over over three years. It's the health with him Yeah. Fred, I would pay you a lot more than you think to ask Joe Mozulo about his dreams It might turn out great Yeah likeike He might just saying, I would want I want to find out Yeah, okay, I'll take the money Obviously, I have no shame So I might ask Hey, did you ever ask Mitchell Robinson, which finger is the most important for rebounding? You know, I should have didn't thread That's that's, you know, that's me dropping the ball. That's me dropping the ball. St Stephen Bondi wrote a fantastic column on Mitchell Robinson in the New York Post. for Thursday morning and had a fantastic anecdote that I was therefore that Before game five of the NBA finals, Mitchell Robinson was when the media was in there pregame and Michel Robinson said he had just finished judging a bikini contest at the Atlantic City Tuck showhow via FacTime And He had just finished. It gets a little better every sentence. So I asked him if he would judge the the bikini contest and he said, he was he was out of town. had the finals And and and he And he judged it via Facetime. He said. He said he had just finished doing it from the locker room And we were cracking up because this is what free game conversations with Mell Robinson are. So I apologize for notot thinking about the finger ranking, but I mean, there was was there was other conversations happening with him that were pretty pressing and we had to get some details on let's talk about the Sixers. They previously looked like they were in like semi appurgatory with the Paul Georgian and Bad contracts. How meaningful do you think the addition of Jalen Brown will be? And are you are you ready to them in like the contender tier in the East and how are you thinking about likeike all of the East contenders in general right now, like Ns, Boston, Indie, Philly, Miami, Detroit Toronto Cleveland Like there's just like a lot of I'm not sure I would put them in the cont I mean, they're very, very good. I don't think I would put them in the contender tier because I don't know if they have depth which is something that plagued them last year. And I also am just not really ready to believe in Joellen Beed for four for four playoff series. And I think in order for them to be considered like a contender, you need Joellen Bead for four playoff series, not just for one. The whole concept of the Sixers last few years was they have the talent, they have the ability to beat anybody in any series and that was kind of proof of concept when they face the Celtics in the first round this year and they come back from three one and they beat them And then they crap out in the second round and MBed looks like he can't really move anymore and it's a different team. Now one of your health liabilities and Paul George is now out. Jalen Brown, one of his great traits is how durable he is. I mean, he plays He plays all the time and he is going to be available and that's going to be a huge huge up for them. and a big deal and will make them better and will make them probably have a better chance in the playoffs because they can stain it for a longer number of runs But if Imbede is not able to do it and if they don't really have the depth, Simonss, I think made a lot of sense for them. I like that move for them. I assume I assume Dean Wade is going to be in their starting lineup as just kind of like a good Good defender, good wind defender, low usage, kind of guy. I think he would make a lot of sense in that starting lineup. I assume Edcom is going to make a, you know, make a normal improvement as a second year because he's a excellent talent and had a great rookie here mayaybe more than normal But I don't know if they have the depth to win for and I just don't have the the Faith in andbe's health to be able to have them win four, but they're super talented and They Could they have the two guards and Jalen Brown take them to win a couple of playoffs series. Yeah, sure. I mean, they're they're one of the better teams in the Eastern confonerence, which is alsoso deeper than I think People give it credit for being I mean, that list that Andrew just read That is eight teams Nicks Boston Pacers sixers heat pistons, raapptors, calves Two of those teams are going to be the play in And they're That's like a terrible outcome based on how all those fan bases are feeling right now feeleels like the West. Like it feels like the West has felt for a while where there's like so many teams that are like all in and like, yeah, there's going to be massive disappointment for somebody You know next season. Yeah There's going to be disappointment. There's going to be an unusual amount of disappointment in the middle of the league next season because There were nine teams at the end of last year for a lot of last year that just like we're actively trying not to win And those teams are going to be trying to win this year the new rules And what's going to happen is those teams are going to win save Five more games and there are nine of those teams And that's forty five wins that are going to be picked up from other spots in the league. That's forty five wins that are coming out of twenty teams win totals, and chances are It's not going to be because the Chicago Bowls beat bers three times or four times or the Funder three times or four times It's going to be because they beat teams in the middle So that's going to be forty five wins coming mostly out of the middle of the league and these teams that like surprised and had nice forty three win seasons. I mean, the suns are one that I think about a lot on this and the hornets are one that I think about a lot on this is which is funny that they're like trit partners all the time is like The Hornness one hundred and forty three, they They traded Lameello The sunons one forty five They made a weird Grace and Allen, Royce O'Neill trade for miles bridges and And I don't think I think they probably overplayed their talent level last year to begin with. It's like you take four wins out of their total. five wes out of the total. Now you're talking about a five hundred season And and things are Things are going to look different, I think for a number of these teams in the middle than what they expect it to be purely because of the new rules. and then you add in the extra depth and teams trying to compete. and it's like, well, you might have We might see a lot of teams that are super disappointed in their seasons because everybody thinks they're going to win. That's the That's the curse of parody, I would say Before we move on from the Jayalen Brown thing,, do you have a feel for like why other teams wouldn't done this deal? like If the wolves are trading for Lameello Would they not have like given up a similar deal to get Jayen Brown? Wouldn't you rather Do that they couldn't though We'll argue about this later, but they did they did not have the picks Philly had Yeah, I think And maybe draft picks were the thing, but it's like In my opinion, like you probably do give up by Jadade McDaniels, who I think is really valuable Like I'm just wondering about other teams like getting on on the. L mayaybe Minnesota is not a great example But like Yeah Sorry Maybe Minnesota is a bad example, but No, you're good. I'm saying like I don't Maybe Minnesota iss not a good example, but I just feel like Philly had to give up to get him. It just feels like there would be a lot more teams that would want to take chance on a guy who is just Six an NVP voting he files NVP not that long ago. I just don't understand that. The obvious one for me is Portland And we'll talk about what trade they did make later. But like they did have they did have the picks and they did have contracts Sure And they were clearly willing to do a big move So that's the one where I'm just like, why? Why did they not go? Yeah, how did it had had had did Portland end up in a place where they're like willing to make a big move had the picks and the trade they walk away with is Job Marant that in the world, but yes, we'll table that for a minute U I think I think everyone's just scared of really big money I no one everyone who's on a really big contract now, all we hear is that The value is just not there. I mean, look at what Trey Young won for, look at what Anthony Davis won for Jyalen Brown as a is a much better player than those guys like he's a he's in a different he's a different class of player than those guys., you know, Anthon Davis is a great player, but he's never healthy Jalen Brown's a different class of player. I'm not arguing that he's in those guys groups. I think there's just like a fear of the huge contract of the huge max deal. There's a fear of that around the league there's a fear of that in this you know, two apron Lague where everybody is I think, honestly, I kind of think that large contracts are kind of becoming a market inefficiency. That's my Like kind of think Go out and get the big contracts. likeike so I don't I don't hate what the wizards did because they didn't give up that much. and if those guys play really well, maybe as NASA play they could flip them for more Like I have to I really believe that Jalen Brown comes in has a really good year in Philadelphia. Philadelphia wants to move on. They probably can. They could probably recruit more than they got. And they gave up for Jalen Brown, even though he's got he's going to have less time left on his contract too So like I kind of think it's becoming a bit of a market ineiciency. That's my That's my take. I think people are going too far in the direction of being scared of these contracts. I think people are maybe a little bit too afraid of the second apron and owners are maybe using it N maybe. ownwners Not all of them, some of them are using it as an excuse when they just don't want to pay And front offices, some of them are using it as an excuse when they just don't want to retain a guy Let's head to the other coast We the Lakers Cp space plan U has happened. We've seen the results of it. After resigning Austin Reeves, Rob Polinka waited for the perfect moment to strike with the Lakers are announcing a flurry of deals within a short span of time. The biggest of those was the Walker Kessler sign in trrade, which cost two first, two swaps, and a four year one hundred thirty million dollars contract for Kessler Now a high quality center was clearly the Lakers top priority. They got it done. Do you think Kessler was a worthy gamble to fill this important role for the Luca Lakers. It's a lot of picks for Walker Kessler It's a lot of picks It's a lot of money for Walker Kessler It's a lot of money and a lot of picks. You know, if it was just the money be like Okay, you know what? it's hard it's hard to get a center Centers are going for a lot Centers were are going for a lot Layu up Like You can't even get a center you can't even get a third string center for a minimum for the most part Yeah It's like true. It's like Ariial Huck Porty went for more than the minimum You know, Yeah, Jackson Jackson Hayays is going for the taxpayer Jock Landell is costing fourteen million dollars for a year You know, like you you look at what the market is for centers and if if you can They're just going for a lot. Hardenstein got Three for seventy five and Centers are just expensive, which is I think why we see Detroit and Durin going through what they're going through, which is like Detroit is trying to play its low leverage of restricted free agency and Durin Um is like, look at what these centers like Walker Kessler is getting one hundred thirty million dollars. I was all MBA last year. I'm twenty two, twenty three years old. come on now end And That's why I think we see Detroit and Duran in the place that they're in. But centers are expensive. It was just the money. I'd be like Centers are expensive. It's not my favorite, but it's not the worst And if it was just the ps on a on a smaller deal. be like You know, you got centers are high valued. You got to give up something, but when it's the picks and the money I'm like That's I thought it was a lot and I don't want to say the Lakers are locked in because it's not like they're in some position where they're ridiculously expensive team, but they are locked in in terms of like not really having tradeable draft capital and This team will be good They'll definitely be good But are they good Enough. know if they're good enough with This crew, even though the rest of their signings were like You know, Austin Rives is Awesome Rves is really good. He's just going cost you, He's going to cost you four for one hundred eighty five. That's just That's just a going rate for a guy averages twenty eight and near double digit assist like he did this past year and Quentin Grimes is a is kind of a jack of all trades good player to have, you know, coming off the bench or alongside those other guys and Mamu had a great year for for Toronto last year, I don't know if defensively They're going to be good enough offensively They'll probably be really high powered. You have Luca. You're going to be high powered but I don't know if they're good. Summer is one of my favorite times of the year, but it can also just be full of chaos. Got the NBA draft that we're covering got all these trades happening And between all that and kids and everything else happening, I'm trying to enjoy some longer days here. And I can feel like there's no time to like really unwind The one thing that really helps me keep up with everything and get better sleep Is this reserve hybrid mattress from Lisa This mattress has become my sanctuary at the end of my long busy day Lisa has a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep Each mattress is designed with specific sleep positions. feel preference in mind. Lisa mattresses are meticulously designed and assembled in the USA for exceptional quality, and they back it all up with free shipping, easy returns, and one one hundred twenty night sleep trial Plus, Lisa is committed to eco friendly materials and sustainable manufacturing practices and partners with organizations like CleanHub to help remove harmful plastic waste from the environment. Plus the Lisa mattress, especially my Reserve hybrid mattress that I have, it not only like looks great when I remember when I unboxed it and showed it to my wife. She was like, that's our mattress. But it is so soft. Like I couldot wait to get back into my Lisa bed. I was on a trip and slept terribly in whatever the mattress was. at whatever the hotel was. and I got home, slept like a baby. I laid down. I was almost I felt like I almost instantly went to sleep it was so comfortable. I love my Lisa Reserve hybrid mattress. Go to Lisa. com for twenty five percent off Plus an extra fifty percent off with the promo code Athletic NBA. exclusive for my listeners. That's LEESA dot com promo code Athletic NBA for twenty five percent off plus an extra fifty dollars off when you use our code support the show. Lisa. com promo code athletic in be A. Still waiting in line Again That's time you'll never get back Save time and money with stamps dot comot Over four million businesses have skipped the line with stamps dot comot Join them to save up to ninety percent off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds. then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to stamps dot com and use code podcast for a free welcome gift Taxes and fees apply It's smart to always have a few financial goals, and a really smart one you can set, earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can this, Discover automatically matches all the cashback you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it, and we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover. com slash credit card All right, Fred, onene of the biggest trades this off season was the Lomeello to Minnesota deal. which has become the biggest argument between Andrew and me since we hotly contested whether Deon Waaders was actually good at basketball Be you give your opinion, on the trade for Minnesota sideide Andrew and I would each like to give you a sixty second pitch for why Minnesota should or should not have made this move. Now, Andrew, would you like to go first or second I'll go a second Okay. I'm getting my phone out, I'm setting a timer for sixty seconds All right, are you ready, Fred Yes Here we go Two back to back conference finals appearances and a hard fought run this post season definitively show that this wolvess team is a playoff riser. This iteration of the wolves had likely reached their ceilings Knowing this team's limitations and knowing that Dante D Vincenzo would be out next season, running it back was not a viable option with mounting pressure real or imagined from Anthony Edwards. The wolves needed to maintain their defensive floor and identity with McDaniels and Gobert. And so I ask you, Fred, what better player could the wolves possibly have gotten for the package they gave up Lomeello is not only an overall talent upgrade, but also a talent that addresses some of their biggest needs, offering an elite playmaker in secondary score to reduce Ant's workload I won't pretend he doesn't have injury concerns, but for all the talk about how smart Charlotte's frront office is, how about we have a little more faith in Tim Connolly, the guy who put together a championship roster in Denver and multiple conference finals teams in Minnesota Is trading for Lo a risk? Yes, but the biggest risk was doing nothing, something the great GM Tim Connolly would never do Wow. I was waiting for a buzzer. Is that six hours or one minute I actually did a stopwatch accidentally instead of a countdown. All right, Andrew, are you ready I'm ready. You your sixty seconds starts Now Mella Ball has been in the league since twenty twenty and he's not played one playoff game. And this is the guy that you're hinging like all of your hope on. He's also a guy that Not only has he not been in a playoff game, But he's just he's not the kind of guy that I would want around a still young ish developing roster. I just don't think he's going to help you. I just frankly don't think he's a winner I don't know why you'd want to bring him onto your team I know they didn't have to give up a lot to get him. But it feels pretty desperate. This is a Wolves team that doesn't have a lot of depth now. They're certainly much smaller in a league that's getting bigger. I know they still have G Bear, but they don't have a four They don't really have a good back of five I'm worried about that for them And then just like the shot quality that you're going to get from Lameello, I don't think is going to help you. They willll be super fun. They'll sell a lot of jerseys. If that was the goal. Great job. You did good. But if you want to win basketball games, Lameello Ball is not the guy And time Time. All right, Fred. What is your opinion Am I saying my opinion or am I giving out a winner? I feel like I have to give out a winner I feel like I just witnessed a sanctioned debate and I have to give a winner. Oh okay, sure, whatever you'd like to do. Alex once Thank you. Alex wins. than mostly because he mostly because he rigged it so he could get more time, but he still wins. I admittedly did go two seconds over I I I here I'm talking so much about swinging pendulums today Pendulum swung too far on Lameello too It swung too far. It it swung too far Then we all realized in real time this season that the pendulum swung too far We were like whoa, the hornets Playing great team basketball. When Lameelo's out there. Yeah, you' still doing some crazy stuff. Yeah, you want to see a few one legged threes a night. You probably don't want to see it, but if you do, you're still going to see it lotot of winning habits The hornets are playing great defense when he's on the floor and when he's off it. those Th those on off numbers that we all love so much that we in the analytics community all love so much. Not so bad with Lameello pretty damn good. Horns were really good with Lemelo on the court lastess year on both sides of the ball. secondcond half for the season. They're one of the best defensive teams in leeague. They're one of the best offensive teams the league. They're one of the best rebounding teams in the league. all whether Lello' on the court or not and they're even better when Lello' on the court. They're even better when Lemelo's out there. He's playing limited minutes because of his body and because of his injury history and because of the ankles and I understand That is something that has to factor into everything because health is unbelievably important. And now that everybody gets hurt all the time, health is more important. But that being said, everybody, every player gets hurt all the time now. If you're only gonna to trade for players who are healthy all the time, you're never going to trade for anybody other than Jalen Brown and nobody wanted Jalen Brown apparently. so you're just never going Straight for anybody ever The meo shouldould have been in the conversation should have been in the conversation Not on it. I'm not saying he gotbbed of all NBA, but he he was on my short. he was on my my my list. If there's a fourth team all NBA I think there's a decent chance Lameello is on there after the season that he had He had a really good year. We all talked about lookook at Lameello. he's winning He's winning And he's helping the team win. They're not winning in spite of him. He's winning. and then it gets traded and we all act like it didn't happen Maybe the meel took some steps Maybe he's maturing Maybe he's a young player who's actually starting to get a little bit better Maybe Maybe guys who are really talented can get good at the thing they're talented at. I just were' all writing off Lameello R right Raw acting like this year didn't happen all of a sudden when the hornets were the darlings They're the darlings of the NBA And we're all writing it off. This is so funny because this is exactly what I sounded like on D to Dunk when me and Andrew argued about this. his like pitch is getting higher and higher and higher as like he He gets more passion. It so it's just like his pitch gets higher and higher. Yeah, I get all that. I just also think that the the Charlotte Hores did a really good job of selling when they did. And that's my's that's how I feel about. Maybe they did. mayaybe they may have done that. Maybe we're going to look back on and be like, you know what? That was Lameello's best year It was his healthiest year. It was his best year and the hornets recognizeed what was happening in real time and they traded him and they got the best value they were going to get for him before his value started crap out. he's on Not the most expensive contract, but an expensive contract making forty some odd million for the next few years. And maybe they just didn't want to be in that business. Maybe possible, but he's an incredible talent and a very good player when Minnesota needed something and to be perfectly honest when I'm not trying to get like insane about it, like there I I'm not obsessed with it from Minnesota's side, but I do think People are acting. like this Lameello season that we just all witnessed and we all praised People are acting like it doesn't matter when we try to project Lomeello into the future when it should matter. It is a reasonable take to watch what happened this past season and believe that Lameello builduild upon it That's a reasonable take and it should be a reasonable It should inspire a reasonable intelligent response. And I think we're all writing it off like it'll never happen And it could pe Speaking of writing it off, u An point guard got traded, Joh Morant Go to Portland in a move no one saw coming. Have you been able to talk yourself into this deal at all from the Portland side because I'm still at a loss Yeah ye Yeah. Alex wins again. Yeah, I Are they going to start Joh Maranton Dami I mean Chris handans reported they're going to start Joh and Damiian Lillard together What what's going on why why did this happen? Portland was like Fisty defensively this year U And you know, fast paced and They're just gonna I guess do away way identity. I mean also like, With Morant's injury history and Lillard coming off of the torn Achilles in his mid thirties, like How many games are those guys gonna start together anyway You know, like Maybe they're each insurance for each other And Lillard's not really expensive insurance. You still have scooted there I mean, Lillard does not really do expensive insurance. he's mid level exception money But Yeah, I It's not. I did not understand that from Portland's perspective. at all to be honest, like I don't get why that's The guy you go after I mean, if you're doing it If you're doing it because Memphis is given up picks and you're doing it for the picks than that I get. And I kind of thought whoever got Job was going to be doing it for the picks, but that obviously wasn't what materialized And I They've been trying to get off of the Jeremy Grant contract for a really long time becausecause they gave him thirty million dollars a year on a five year deal. And once every single day that goes by contract becomes a little bit more valuable because there's one day less time on And I think they were probably in a habit of trying to get off of the Jeremy Grant contract. Now there's what a couple of years left on the graant deal, right? So it's it's not that. big of a deal.'s still he's still a also cheaper than Jaw's Yes Makes less money That was my That's my whole issue. Like if my team is going to trade for John Moran, I either want Cap relief or some draft assets. The only upside of this trade cannot be Just hoping that John Morant returns to the way where he was four years ago That can't be the only upside. There has to be something else there I feel like they've taken all the risk in this trade. And I just I don't understand it at all. Okay,red. tootally. And to be clear by the way, everyone talks about Jaz as a character thing and whatever else. We could have this conversation never once mentioned Anbody thinks of him as a human being. It's just like, well yeah, he's a small point guard whose body has completely stopped breaking down. It has started completely breaking down. He's played seventy nine total games over the last three years. and part of that is because of the suspensions. but most of that is because of the injuries. Yes He has not played seven consecutive games since twenty two twenty three. He can't shoot on a team that desperately needs shooting. They can't defend on a team whose identity was going to be defense and now they're adding in Joh Marant and Damiian Liller are coming up to Achilles. I don't get it. Okay Lightning round, Fred, and I need this to be lightning quick. So lightning eight, eight questions. You don't have to give long answers. Quick answers. Lighty good. I'm really I'm really good at quick. I never talk. So okay, here we go Number one, favorite basketball fit for LeBron James. on court. G said. Easy. U really Wow, really Okay silly ye, how fun is LeBron and Curry together Yeah It is' so disappointed No it is it's I don't know. I just feel like he's such a good fit on Philly. It's like what Pilly Needs I mean, look at their their who they've been playing at the for the last couple seasons. What happened to the lightightning? What happened to the lightning? Okay, I'm sor two wors. All right. you're right you're right. Okay, okay. Iignore.ore ignore the basketball fit. whichich situation would lead to the best LeBron documentary Any team, any team anyy team An team Hey Any team purely as a documentary The Shanghai longong lions. Why would that be tellell me you wouldn't watch LeBron just saying screw it and playing a season in China. Tell me you would not watch the documentary about his life that season Let's change the question. best NBA team. This is a NBA player. Okaykay NBA team. go Um That. I mean probably the cals From a narrative standpoint, probably cs Yeah, that's like a real reason Yeah. I was thinking Minnesota because if you have and L Mello just consistently got to document team teammate wise, that might be the the most fun imagining those guys around him. But as a real story, Cleveland probably is the best Yeah I mean, I gave you guys, I gave you guys the unerious answer and the serious answer I I gave you both of one And you did it a quick maybe maybe we compromise and we say the Canton calves, which is G League team Favorite role player edition of the off season Try to keep it below fifteen million per year H. Were there any like smaller signings that you just really liked Um scrolling through the signings. Let me say I like Tim Hayer Hardaway j Jr to Miami That's the exact kind of player they could use. I think that was a good signing He'll be a really good addition for them yourour least favorite role player edition of the offseason. Teen million or less M. Can a resigning count Sure, a guy who they treat I didn't really get the Kevin Herder contract I I was so surprised to see him get. I mean, he had a really down year was out of the rotation. I was so surprised to get him Three years for twenty seven byy the way, if we can go a hair above on favorite, I really like the Spurs a hair above fifteen. I really like the Spurs adding to By his Harris for thirty one for two years. I think he's a perfect fit from a both an enncore perspective and a personality perspective. L he's He's just is just perfect. he can he can play the role that kind of Barnes ended up falling out of. last year and can be really good in that locker room and is experienced and unbelievably popular teammate and will be able to stay on the floor during major playoff series. And he's that was a good signing. I likek that a lot What about team most Pime to take a step forward based on their off season? Damn I gott I haven't even thought about this Who's the most prime to take a step forward Thinkking win totals We're thinking win totals Man It's probably either Washington or Utah Probably Washington because they're going to be bringing in Nee Davis and Treay Young, who basically didn't play last year and they have Dabana with the number one pick and You know, their young guys probably make another leap like Sar made really good improvements last year. And I feel like they might be the team that adds to their win total the most from last year when they were just trying to lose hard. So Tbe Washington, even though I think they probably end up out of the I think there's like a decent chance they end up either the very bottom or out of the easastern confference play in picture anyway Yeah What about team prime to take a step back Phoenix. Let's go next U I think I think there's a lot on Devin Booker's shoulders. I did not like the bridges trade for them It's supposedly cleared up money, but not in the long term, but not really because they're going to have to pay Bridges and there's a decent chance. I mean Bidges extension knowigable number starts at actually a little bit higher than the amount of money that Royce Sel and Grace Nallam are already making I gave my justification already for why I think some teams that that were in the middle last year are going to fall. I think you probably shave five winess off of Phoenix' total to begin with and then you get to kind of overperforming and then downgrading the roster a little bit. Like it's not like they've made exclusively bad moves or anything like that. I thought the Con Gespy contract was like a really good contract The Jordan Goodwin contract was a really good contract, but I think we're going to see regression from that team this year and I could I could see them Especially with a lot of these other teams now trying to compete with Utah trying to be better and these other teams trying to be better. I could see them I could see them falling down the standings from I mean, there were seventh in the West last year. I could see them. eight seed. I could see them falling from there Great final answer in our lightightning round All right, let's move on to Andrew versus the beat Eight questions. Fred, choose number between one and eight Seven Seven. finally, everyone's been picking one. It's annoying. Niicolea Vusovich is going back to Orlando on a one year deal There are only fourteen active players who have more career points than Votch. We're going to name them all. So Fredo'll give a name, Andrew give a name go back and forth to one of you stumbles. So just career points, active players more career points than Vch Pre pretty easy question Bon James. L Bron James. numberber one, Andrew James Harden Seems hard, number three Fred Kevin Durant Come to round number two, Andrew Steph Stuff Cry number seven, seven six Next, Fid I was trying to count This is an easy question Rsell Westbrok So let's stick number four to Andrew U I mean, Dard rus And more to Rose, numberum five Game Dame N six Daman guys we already discussed who around on my You have named the top seven Here we go. Here's the back half. Andrew PG Paul George. he is on the list Y he is. Ten number ten Yanis Yonus number eight A few names left How about Kyrie? Kyree, number eleven on the list That was a risky one, I feel like Fred, yeah Jimmy Butler. Jimmy Butler is incorrect, which means Andrew gets the point Andrew, what would have been your next name I was gonna say Yokch Yokich number fourteen Just ahead of really that is so weird. The other day we' Anthony Davis Makes sense. Devin Booker makes sense. And then the one that I think I don't know if you would have ever gotten, Brooke Lopez Mm. Brooke, Lopez. like thirty eight years old Yeah Hey still doing it Andrew, B is your One Pushion number one Paul George was traded for the third time in his career on Wednesday among active players who are six, eight or shorter. O five have more career rebounds than Paul George. Those names are Al Horford Russell Westbrook James Harden Dramon Green and this player So six eight or shorter more career rebounds than Paul George And these are active players active players And the six, eight or shorter is the Okay I was kind of surprised Al Horford was listed six eight Yeah. he was there That's why I gave him to you because I wouldn't have thought of him as a six eight or shorter. Yeah, I would not have thought of him either. Um the I don't know Kawai C I No I'fraid you have chance toe C can you can you say the names for me again Al Horford, Russell Westbrook, James Harden, Draymond Green, and this player LeBron No He's listed at six nine, I think, on basketball reference. Sorry It's actually one of your favorite signings Tobias Harris. Nice haaris. W Cats. Fred cats. Fred cats. U number three Number three, this summer, LeBron James I feel like I feel like you're just. Thank you for clarifying No wrong. James will change teams for the fourth time in his career The first time he changed teams was twenty ten During that summer, LBron granted meetings with six teams Cleveland, Miami, and these four franchises. You have to name all four. Other four teams other than Cleveland and Miami that LeBron met with in twenty ten I can't pass and homeandic. You could And then a band who gets aroundag at the point. No. No, no No, Okay. Wait, why would it work that way? I I was just in Bravin What if I do the work? What if I didn't do the work? and then Andrew did it, but didn't get it all? and then I could come back and It's exactly That's exactly what I was trying to figure out U All right, well, I know the Kicks are one of them. You said Miami and who was the other team you said Cleveland Well, you giveave the really obvious ones, huh I did I'm trying to remember, man, twenty ten. I wasn't covering the NBA then U It was New York It was Wn't the Shanghai long Lions? tell you that U it was that I don't remember. I don't remember the team. I'm not going to get it What were you doing I in college. I was probably pretty drunk Oh my gosh can't get one more Uh, Philly No Andrew Don't remember Yeah Ns Ns. Blls Wow, that is correct I forgot he met with the Cliippers Yeah and the bulls Damn, Andrew those It clutch. I don't remember. was time ago. Bard is yours Number two This is why I don't do well in trivia It's okay I think you're going to do well on this one. Zach Collins returned to the Bowlls on a two year deal. After his next contract runs out, what will be Zack Collins's career earnings Now Andrew You get to choose who answers first. You can make Fred answer first And your answer first And you go you know how it goes Fred, you get to I'll let you answer first. All right, here we go. Fred, lock in Collins career earnings. You have been out whoever close higher career. No, you're going to set the over under and then Andrew's going to go over or under that That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right Okay I think Zach Collins Are we including the seventeen million dollars total as as part of his earnings? Yes. Okay. He was making a lot of money before I'm gonna to say Zach Collins, I'm gonna to set the over under at seeventy five million dollars. Andrew, would you like to go over or under seventy five million dollars Over Correct answer. is ninety million two hundred four thousand three hundred and eleven dollars. Congratations to Zach, Collins Wow All right. Andrew Good to be tall Um I can't see the whole thing, but I there's number four available? Wait a second. it's Fred's Fred,s it's yours Be Andrew made you guess. Yeah, that's true. that five Five Kawi was traded to the Raptors for the sake. Wait which why Qui Leonard. Okay got it got I got it. Quiet Leonard was traded the Raptors for the second time in his career this week. The first time he went to the Raptors, the Spurs received D Marda Rosen Pur and a top twenty protected twenty nineteen first round pick Who was eventually selected with that twenty nineteen first round pick? my gosh. I remember this I actually do remember that. Here we go. hereere we go I'm going to remember something All right Oh it was killed Johns. I remember who it was killed Johson T going nice There we go on the board Got gotta remember something I'll go with Number six. Number six. Paul, George and Brandon Ingrham have now been traded three different times in their careers They're going to need to work a lot harder to become the most traded player in NBA history a player who was moved eleven different times during his career. Who was it? eleven different times in his career eleven different trades. M traded player in NBA History Somebody in my mentions mentioned somebody that had been traded a lot. Yeah. And I don't know if it's this player or not. Okay. Um if they' if this is the case, I'll have to give them a shout out afterwards, Jim Jackson? No. what? Okay? Fred Okay guy block them So say you you're blocked now whoever mentioned Jim Jackson in my. Well, Jim Jackson played for the second most teams guy who play for the most teams was Ish Smith. Ish Smith broke They it was it's Jim Jackson played for twelve teams, a couple other guys played for twelve. believe So I believe the answer to this question is somebody that I covered Now Ismith was waved a lot and signed with a lot of guys. so I don't think he's the answer. Ierest. And I think the answer is another guy who I covered who got traded ninety million times. Who is it I think it's Trevor Aza That is correct, Fred. Whoa. We've got a game. It's four to three And Fred, you have control of the board, you can pull ahead right here I honestly, control of the board is overrated. It really doesn't mean anything because I get most of them wrong. so I'd rather not have control of the board. So I'm going to go with number four because Andrew wanted number four before. I did. I couldn't see if it was available myan is like, not right. Okay, I'm warning you up front. this is an annoying question. I really want you to listen to the words that I'm saying. Okay as of the recording of this podcast. There is only one NBA team that has four former all stars currently signed to their roster Which team is it Well I guess Harden's a free agent so it's Cleveland There you go. seeee, you're thinking smart correct because they're not currently signed Yes, Yes signed F So am I All stars For Oh, and the the Kawai trade hasn't happened yet be the clippers Is that your guess? Well I guess the ciet tradeer wouldn't matter. I mean, the I'm going to guess the clippers Clippers four guys. They've had three Garland, Lopez, Kawai I am I think they' found fourth. No, they haven't had a fourth Well, no, Bradley Bld't pick up the player option. That's why Yeah Yeah. All right Well, I guess I'm wrong Ild you it was annoying. Uh Andrew Warriors Draymond is currently not under contract with the Golden State Warriors. But they do have Steph Porzingus and Horford Horford For Jimmy And You got me, Andrew. That is correct