Final Act and The Big Reveal

I'manobs. This is the big Picture Conversation Show about Disclosure Day. On today's episode, we will dig into Stehven Spielberg's return to blockbuster filmmaking The Sci fi Epic Disclosure Day, the iconic director's thirty fifth feature film. This is among our most anticipated movies of twenty twenty six, and we will dive deep into a spoiler filled conversation about the film's plot It's ideas about life beyond our own and what it all means. But first, we'll talk about some movie news right after this Okay, Dobbins, right at the top of the ledger in movie news. Incredible restraint to not just make this. This is a conversation podcast about the New York Net. We did it. Unreal honestly unbelievable. I was watching live with my four year old son and my husband It was way past bedtime, but we were like, ten you you gota You got to witness history. though we didn't know that we were going to get the OG an Novi tip I don't know what to do with myself 's myself. Let's talk a little bit about it because Incredible, incredible final moments that I've watched from like every angle, forty five different times that's, you know, been set to various scores and cinematic moments. It's great. It's a meme, perfect, beautiful Nick win. The whole MSG goes completely wild. U Everyone is smiling, even Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld The twowo and a half hours or three hours really leading up to that inexplicable And and there was the Kicks were down by twenty nine points. This is the biggest comeback in NBA finals historys right. What happened? Not to, you know, not to be my courts side reporter, but like what what happened? I'll give you my perspective on the experience. Yeah. I've been watching all of these games at home. Sure. I've been watching them in my living room with my family. Yeah. On Friday, I watched with CR and Phoebe, That's being beautiful. Otherwise I've been watching this mostly with Alice, with Eileen Sometimes Alice and Eileen need to be like on the other side of the room Not leaving the room, but like, why don't you guys play a board game while we endure this. This is a very tense, very close series to very evenly matched teams. 'm I've very rarely been in this position. that The Mets were in the World Series in twenty fifteen. Remember that? They were in the World Series in there was the sububway series in two thousand I The Kicks have not been in the final since nineteen ninety nine. Um No The j Jets have not been to the Super Bowl since nineteen sixty nine So I just don't have a ton of experience with this kind of high stakes series. but I'm also trying to be a grown up person, a father adult Watching the first two minutes of this game. I've already been a big cry baby about the officiating in the series. Yeah. And I felt like Kat got two fouls in the first two minutes. and I just immediately went full doomer. You know, I was just like, this is horrible the world is against us. You weren't alone. There is a u a historic Ayisha Curry tweet from I believe twenty sixteen of, you know, it's rigged. I don't know what to say. I just saw it live. It's rigged. and that was being recirculated As soon as the game started. And I've been living in that tweet for for four games. It's really you know, Viictor Wanyama. It's a long story. I'll say I'm certainly happy about his existence today because he choked. but After those first two catfows and then the fact that the Kicks just got their doors blown off, the spurs were unbelieable in the first quarter. They were shooting the lights out I like shut down. I really was shutting down. And then halfway through the second quarter, I just shared this with Jack and our colleague Anthony Debundo I just moved from watching the game on the TV to watching on my phone. Okay. And I was sitting and playing with Alice while watching the game on my phone because they were down twenty five. Which is certainly the energy that you want to bring to You spending time with your child? It wasn't ideal. This is But was better than just going into the basement and not doing anything like not looking at anyone. Yeah, that's true. Remember when you used to like play with Alice and also listen to a podcast at the same time? When she was like six months old? Sure, but they can tell Yeah, we're good. Alen are good, trust me know. So and I are in good shape. Yeah byy this third quarter when they cut it to fifteen But here's what I'll say. O, I was doing the hardcore Doomer reverse Jins thing where I was just like, they're gonna lose this game. They won't win another game this series. This is cllassic Nicks, the Trump stink Um, The James Donan interview in theFN Taylor Swift with her grryt and ass sitting in the front. That was inexcusable. Listen. Listen. Taylor Swift was at a Nick game a month ago, rooting for the cast. I know, sitting like one foot above the the floor and it's very stupid. I don't know what's happening with Cleveland seeating also, but yeah, but also just like Ladies sit down, you know? like it's fine. Congratulations. You're so rich and famous and allegedly getting married at MSG, even though I don't believe that. that you can have courtside seats. First of all, give them to someone else, honestly. But second of all, if you're going to be there in your Stevie Nick shirt, like you don't need to be jumping up and down that hard. Okay You just arrived H some let's, you know, the counterpoint as Jason Caspone put it. The person who would have been sitting there was probably like a hedge fund manager from New York. It's not like we took this away from a blue collar lifelong Ns fan, but that was all of that was very ostentatious and silly. Kylie took this seat away from Josh Safty, and I raised my eyebrows at that.. Well, I saw Josh got on the court afterwards. Anyhow, in the third quarter, I basically like I had to leave and just go watch the game by myself After all my doomerism, after on my multiple Nicks text threads saying they won't win another game. It's over it's over it's over, which is some combination of reverse jins and just feeling destroyed. Bill Simmons was the first person who said when they were down twenty nine The next can definitely come back from this and they have done it before and I didn't believe that in the moment. Okaykay But that was right around when I locked into the game in a real way. And The final quar and a half that game is the best I've ever felt watching sports in my entire life. That was the It was really f. OG Tipp in there nothing will ever, ever, ever, ever touch that. I mean, that is that was ation I couldn't breathe tears in my eyes.. I truly like felt my body shaking. Actually literally something that happened to me because I was drinking, I won't be surprisise to people last night is my ear clogged when he hit the shot And it had been clogged all the way up until an hour ago and I took a pseudohedron. Okay, it was it unclogged. No, like it was no it clogged because it was like I had no control over my function. The atmospheric pressure just changed in your body. Yeah. Okay, That's good. And listen. I mean, I just and you know, and then I spent five hours listening to pods, looking at tweets, just laughing You know, if like reveling in sports center in a way I haven't in thirty years It was just the greatest. No the job's not done No, it's only three one Bight back to San Antonio Back to San Antonio. Look, the spurs are amazing. They're too young. That's been the issue. The issue is they've made a ton of mistakes and the Kicks have capitalized on the mistakes They're insanely talented. Weby's terrifying. I do feel justified in everything I said. He's bully, he's dirty player. he's also probably the most gifted and be a player that's come around since Maybe Lebron Give her take Yokach? Yeah. so beat him one more time, but That was the best man. That was that's why I've been watching sports for forty three years. That was the absolute best feeling you can have Can I offer my reviews of some of the memes that have made it my way? Sure the reactions? Sure. So I was happy that they found Um, My Christians Dior Nixon four guy for number five. Yeah. And I hope he's happy. That was an that was an instant poetry. Yeah Mom Danny's reaction on the chair in the bar very good. I was just telling that story. That was crazy. Really, really, really good stuff U everything he's doing thumbs up and then the group of New Yorkers on the upper West side who just started chaining UPS. a UPS truck are doing the work, you know? And that to me captures what is great about New York City. And that's fun. Like this this is gone beyond. m not on the binwan, I'm not Taylor Swift. Yeah, but I'm watching I'm excited. It's you know it's phenomenon It's a pop cultural thing. Yeah It is. That's what we were discussing just before. I think I'm so torn because people have asked me multiple times since the playoffs started and especially when they started going on this massive run Like, willill you go back, willill you go back? willill you back? And I always say I will never go back. I can't watch games like this in person. likeike I'm too tense about It's Saturday night, San Antonio. You're not gonna to try? I can't, I can't Well, now if I do it I'm afraid of jinxing everything. I mean, we've just never had this much good fortune. They've now won fourteen of fifteen playoff games. No, I know. I mean, this is going to end up becoming, if they win, one of the most astonishing playoff runs in sports history can't risk, I can't fuck with that But will you watch game six game five alone I think I'll just do what I've done with every game which is just wall sit down together We're firered up If it's going poorly I kind of shut it down a little bit. I'll move to another room I gotta just stick with what worked. We have to do a bedtime reset in my house because things have just really gone awry, but it's tough because Once game five turns on, Kox is going to be like, I want to watch the next. likeike he's in he knows about it and he knows He understood that moment. I think Zach and I both like, you know, jumped off the couch when it when it happened. And you know this is something that like this actually makes sports fandoms outside of your home city. I'm not one of those people who roots for a team that isn't from my home city, but if you were a young person watching the Dallas Cowboys in the nineties, you could become a cowboys fan forever if you lived in New York or Canada or Wyoming If you were a baseball fan, a young baseball fan in two thousand four when the Red Sox be the Yankees, you could become a Red Sox fan for life, no matter where you lived There have been a lot of examples. I mean, Patrick Mahomes fans have come up despite not being from Kansas City over the years. L this is something that happens with sports and The next team is It's don I feel like they're pretty li likeable. I' it impossible for me to have any objectivity about this, but They're not braggadocious. They're real like put your head down and work guys. They're like they're adults. They're all between the ages of twenty and thirty one And there's a togetherness to them that I find really special. So yeah, I'm just I don't know what to do with myself. I also was watching just to try to understand what energy we would have today for, you know, the rest of this podast. Listen this is a big deal. This is N Spielberg movie. you're, you know. yourour best friend, Stehven. One of the only things that could possibly interrupt the general momentum of a movie podcast is a historic. So I really needed them to close we could do this appropriately. And I appreciate it. I understand you're still like, It was a roller coaster. You know, you're vulnerable your you know, heart's on the line and it's not over yet. No, but we're going to do our best. and I appreciate what they did. I think if they had gotten blown out, I would have brought my a game to the pod. I would have just that happens Yeah two'll probably lose the series. I would have been in Doomert toown, but I wouldn't have been like, this is going to affect how we do my thing. If they had lost a one point game after the comeback. push the recording Friday. Okay I'm glad you didn't because the traffic getting here tomorrow for World Cup purposes is going to be very difficult. incredibly good. Yeah. so I'm glad we're not Iing to theice. Iming to your h. I was to say are you are you locked in for Fiday including my on the men husband? I mean, what a sports week? Yeah, what a sports week? I'm excited. You know, your husband had a sports surgery. He did with an incredibly handsome sports doctor, which wow. Yeah, he did not mention until the guy walked in the room and I was like, hello. Oh wow. Thanks to him, it went well. Nice. So he's recovering well, but yeah, it was Neil Ea Trosch No, is that the train wreck character? No, that's the guy who does, u the Achilles surgeries that that worked on Aaron Rogers's Achilles and all the No, but I mean, it was a sports surgery in order to get his shoulder working again. And you know, it was explained to me about moving stabilizing the muscles and something called Remplissage, which is the French term for filling in something that wasn't there. So I could't say it. So R plage. plassage. Yeah. whichich the handsome surgeon pronounced very well. Yeahah. but anyway, train wreck, good movie Yeah, I'm a fan. let's replassage the movie podcast. Let's fill in what we were not doing. Thank you to the listeners who endured eight minutes of discussion of the NBA. There is some movie news before we discuss Disclosure D I got quite a few notes on social media asking us to immediately react to the release of the social Reckoning trailer This is the new movie from Earon Sorkin written and directed. It is effectively a sequel to the social network, which was our favorite movie collectively of the twenty first century when we did twenty five or But well, o. You know I've been having a lot of Fincher conversations Finch' back in the news because of Cliff Booth. Right And somebody was bullying me about not making a Zodiac. putting that out there for you. That person is welcome to bully you all they want because they can never bully me. Like I'm immovable. And it was a joint list. And like good luck, buddy. Social I ass it was a man. So good luck. It was a man and a woman. Oh, okay. Social network had its rightful place at number one on that list. The social reckoning comes I think with the weight of that expectation. And now remind me, you missed this trailer? I did. It was on Monday night. So I had to stay and have dinner. familyily dinner. So Matt Belleny and I saw this trailer. Was this the lentils I think it might have been leg believe it was. Yeah. So Matt and I saw this trailer at Cinema Con in April. and You know, Matt was very excited about the kind of meme potential of Jeremy Strong I generally was like, this looks like a disas, right I think that there was something more interesting about what was happening with Jeremy Strong playing Mark Zuckerberg in the movie. what we saw of Jeremy Allen White and Mikey Madison and the Wall Street Journal repeporter and the whistleblower component That's all looked very b And here we are, yes. You've seen the trailer. I did. I watched it this morning because it hit my inbox yesterday and I was like, I'm not emotionally ready for this. We're recovering from sport surgery. I don't have to do this yet. What' auous week? Yeah, so I did it this morning and my verdict is absolutely not I just Absolutely not top to bottom. And I think I am historically more black licorice on Jeremy Strong than anybody else. And I think when he's good, he's very good, but he is always Jeremy Strong to me doing something to me as well. And so I was nervous about it in anyway what I've seen positive. I agree with everything you said about the Mikey Madison and Jeremy Allen White reporter whistleblower type situation, which to be fair, we didn't get that much of but it was certainly the we got stilted expository dialogue Exactly. And you know, what this reminded me, in addition to this being a sequel, this is veryery clearly a movie about Facebook and not about Mark Zuckerberg And I think what is magical about social network and many other movies and honestly This is germane to the conversation we're going to have about thisclosure day is that It uses the personal in order to explore the larg the larger system and the larger world. and, you know what we learn about ourselves or this person is then reflected. and This is just about how big tech is bad according to what I'm seeing and I know, you know Yeah. And that just doesn't seem interesting. Obviously also the filmmaking is like a joke, but we knew that that was going to be the case. Please hire real director, group projects are good. Yeah, someone on social media yesterday just posted the social network trailer just to cleanse the time and just looking again at the trailer and conjuring that feeling It did remind me that we're it's a lot to live up to for a movie like this. The movie looks to me like a standard docy drama, you know, It looks like an HBO movie. I like movies like that if they're done well. and there' been a lot of them over the last twenty years that can be like entertaining and past the time. But this is coming in the shadow of a movie that we both revere. And I think you're right that it does feel like it's a movie about a system and a way that we have changed our lives rather than the character study of the social network, which was what is so powerful about that film is trying to explore this Sphinx like bratty young man who changed the world. Yes. And this is about the way that a corporation makes decisions and how it hurts people which is not fundamentally dramatic Eespecially because there's just a lot of raortge about what's transpired. Now look I'm guilty of doing the thing that you just did when we saw the Oppenheimer trailer. I was like, we know what happens. If you've read the book, you may remember that. people were so mad at me when I said that. And it was very easy for me to change my tune when I saw the movie. So if the movie is good enough It'll wash it away. It's just not a promising trailer at all. It looks very It looks very, very overwritten. and that's one thing that you can say about the wonderful collaboration between Sork and Fincher is they made each other better They elevated what each other is interested in in such unique ways. and sometimes that friction stylistically can make something special. And this just feels like guy holding the ball by himself. Yeah. You can also say that of Steve Jobs, which I also saw comparisons to. and That is a Sork and Dany Boyle collaboration and that is obviously even closer It was also about a tech person and a tech person later in life and kind of the legend of someone It's definitely about person and the way that structured is around three discrete events. I mean This is alarming in that it just seems to of it of what it's trying to communicate over time I don't know. It's a lot it's a lot to bite off. You know, the movie comes out this fall. We'll be covering it for sure. I think There's something kind of interesting about a movie like this actually being a On its face, you think this is what we always ask for. Why can't we get back to like adult dramas but it also feels like kind of a old fashioned IP play and the decision to include we told you about this, but to include Handcovers Brus, the Trent Resnner and Atticus Ross S score angry att the conclusion of the trailer when in fact those composers are not a part of the movie I understand it as a marketing tactic, but it's a bait and switch. you know, this is not from the people who brought you the social network. It's from one person who is a part of the social network. Let me ask you this, one thing If it were Eisenberg and not strong Would you feel better about it Yes I would. I mean, I said part of my concern is Jeremy Strong, much like Aaron Sorkin, I think is best when mediated. And well I know mean When there are like probably Jeremy Strong but I think he's incredibly talented and I've liked many of his performances, but I think when it's not just the Jeremy Strong showh. when he is in response to other people when there is more than his performance holding something together is when it gets interesting. and This looks like the Jeremy Strong showh. So I don't know. I don't think anyone is set up to succeed. How about that? I can't say I disagree with you We also saw the whale fall trailer, which you and I did both see at Cinema Con Rck out. terrify Tuly great We tried to tell you Yeah and it's pretty exciting. I'm very pumped for this movie. Now they did effectively show They made the trailer the clip that we saw. We saw a clip. we didn't see a proper trailer. They showed us a little bit of a tease with the Josh Broowling character being the father of the Austin Abrams character at the beginning of the trailer. But then they basically cut the sequence that we watched of a man being subsumed by a whale in addition to a squid being subsumed by a whale U And a lot of people were just like, this is a little too stressful. And it does have a little bit of a horror movie quality, but I think it's obviously not showing much of the story at all and you know, it's obviously a survival movie And I it doesn't answer any of my questions about breathing known about what happens when you're swallowed by a whale but wasn't so much of that related to like the oxygen and what was No, it was about gravity. Oh, gravity, Yeah. it was gravity. But but I think that we did get word from the filmmaker proxy. That that there is ra There is gravity inside of a wh whale. Yeah. Though then I heard from some whale experts. that there are some issues like being swallowed by a whale is sort of a multi stop multi step and impossible process. You wouldn't really be swallowed whole. I see. Something about a whaes's esophagus being the size of a grapefruit or something. You heard from whale experts? Yeahes, so did you. Did I? Yes. Wow. We'll see. We'll learn. I'm really excited. Are you aware that the author of Walefall, the novel recently won the Pulitzrize? I certainly am. H his name' Dani Crown. Yes.. But not for Walefall. for Angel Down, which is apparently an ent one sentence novel It's apparently a horror novel and I actually would like to read it. A lot of people, a lot of my favorite horror movie podcasters have aggressively recommended it. I think Gilbert Cruz also recommended it.. Gilbert Cruz is the person who let me know about it Gilber Cruz is a friend who works the Nework Times Yeah, I'm pumped for whalefall. Me too. I think it's in real stark contrast to the social reckoning, and they come out in the same month. So that's wonderful. Yeah I wanted to also mention there's a trailer this week for Once Upon Tim in Harlem, which is David in William Greeves' documentary about a reunion of several participants of the Harlem Renaissance, which we saw at Can and actually did I don't know if we ever talked about it in our recap episode or any of our follow upp episodes, partartially because the film originally premiered at Sundance and got raves. Neon is distributing the movie But I wanted to just put a circle around it and wanted to let people know that I thought it was a very cool, unique, special document that apparently has been fifty years in the making since these conversations were captured. And I thought it was very well edited and really interesting. you know, is probably the presumptive favorite for best documentary at the Academy Awards right now. Anything you want to share about that? I really enjoyed seeing it and u I thought that as you said, it's inventive without being showy of how it presents the information and the footage that it has well edited and we' cheking out So definitely where you'll get to Okay, some Academy awward news speaking of Hm. The The Academy announced its G govern's awwards honorees. Yes. Now every year a handful of people receive honorary Oscars. Historically, you don't recognize those Oscars as competitive wins. They're not. They're not competitive wins. But they do still mean that these people get Oscars. Astisk Oscars, but okay. Um Tw of these people Yes are long time like when will they get their Oscars? Why won't the Oscars respect them? You know we've been waiting a really long time to see one, Glenn Close So Some of the earliest bits on this show are oriented around her Oscar campaign. We've all the wife. We've all not seen the wife, you know. I I have seen it. you've Iad. Did I read the novel or did I just purchase it and not read it I couldn't tell you. The only people who have seen the wife. Yeah are us, other Oscar podcasters twenty two percent of the Oscar voting body. R She's been on me eight times Yeah and has no wins and it's become a bit that she hasn't won. So she will be honored here, obbviously one of the great screen actors in the last forty years It's done a lot of great work I don't know what you do about this. I guess this is great news for her It makes it feel a little worse in a way. I completely agree I just I think if I were her Still I can see her face when I close my eyes. I can see her face not winning the Oscar for the wife. when they announce Olivia Coleman. Yes, one of the great speeches. and You know, she mostly holds it together, but there's kind of like an ah, well there it goes again moment.. It's not quite as bad as Demi more with the dog and the French fries after losing for the substance. But it stays with me. So I Glenn cllose knows, you know, in her heart of hearts, this is not what she's out for. Yeah cuts two ways, right? On the one hand, you can be like, well You'll never compete again. On the other hand, you could pull the Paul Newman or what may be the Tom Cruise this year After you get an honorary Oscar, you have a park coming up in a movie and you knock it out of the park and then the accademy is like, whoops, We giveave you your honorary too soon We're ready to honor you in the way that they did Paul Newman. And I think there's a very strong chance that we have six to seven months of Tom Cruise Oscar campaign coming our way. We certainly have campaign. We haven't seen Digger yet, so we don't know whether it will actually. I think regardless of if the movie is a hit or not, if it's a critical failure or not, I still think he's doing enough. Yeah that that's going to be a part of the conversation. I was reminded remembered that Glenn Close is in Level Eegra, which will also almost certainly be a part of the Oscar conversation. It will will not I don't think it running for that, but just it's useful You know, shes she'll be around, you know, I wonder if there was a little bit of synergy in in this event Probably not presented in partnership with Rolex, which is included on every single press release, which I was like awards. Okay. Okay.. I did want to you I do want to go the Gvern's awwards this here. interest. No, Ive started looking for dresses. great. I've never been, I would really like to go. One of the reasons I would like to go is the next person an honorary Oscar is really Scott. Yeah who's one of our favorite directors A checkard though, his filmography may be. ghost dog? What' what is it? A dog dog dog.g.s very encouraging august twenty eighth release date. You know what, I'll be back for vacation. so you appreciate it. You will We'll podting about that movie. It's a Jacob Lardy film. It'sure, he's very tall. So he's got a new movie coming out. I don't think it's going to be contending for Best Picture this year, but he has three best director nominations for Thelman moovies Gladiator and Black Hawk Down fascinating to think that he was not nominated for alien or Blade Runner or any number of, you know majestic classics that he has created over the years. alsoso had a best picture nomination for the Martian, but did not get nominated for best director for the Martian. He's historically been a very overlooked icon of film director. and he's a huge massive part of the industry. He is among the most prolific filmmakers. He's also presides over a huge production company with Scott Free, that he started with his brother Tony He's like one of the dons of commercial directing and he's gotten into television. L he's a huge, huge, huge, huge Hollywood figure And I think among cineophiles is beloved. Yeah, but he's never quite cracked this realm in any meaningful way. So well, Gladiator won best picture. It did, but itam didn't, but still. Yeah. And that was was that Angee one for Best director that year? No, who won who won for Best Director in two thousand H, two thousand Best director Oscar Google. Oh de no It would be the two thousand one Academy Awards We've got to figure this out as a society. I don't know why my brain is worurking Soberg for traffic because he had the he had the. That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I wouldn't take that one away from him. To me, it's alien and Bloodrunner are the movies that where he should have He should won. There's an interesting case for Thelm Louies as well as one of his, you know which one of his great directorory used an image from Thilm Louies was used as the poster for Can That's right, That's right This reminded me that Harrison Ford also doesn't have an Oscar and doesn't have an honorary Oscar. And I wonder whether the SG Awards kind of clipped him out of an honorary Oscar for at least two to three years. So what if he dies with no oscar? Well, let's allow out hope death upon one's hailing hardarty to me. He's doing great, but listen, we gota, you know, accept mortality. Would you go back in time and give him one for Red Hulk I have The hmy was really bad. That was really. Th was cherry blossoms, that scene where he's just that was tough. That was That was the nayer of the ye of the entire MCU experience A couple of other honorary nominee honore Oscar receivers. What is Floyd Norman who Yeah a haallllowed animator who worked on Disney films in the sixties and seventies and whose credits are on Sord in the Stone, Mary Popins, the Jungle book, Robin Hood. A lot of movies that Hot Fox. he was a part of the Hot Fox. So I actually went to go see u the jungle book with my daughter at Vidiot's last year and Floyd was there. And he spoke, he was interviewed by Amanda, the programmer at Vidots And they had an amazing conversation, a fascinating conversation. Floyd talked a lot about working directly with Walt and getting involved at a higher level. He sort of was like bumped up on the jungle book to more of a supervising role as an animator. You know, Floyd is one of the very few African American animators from that period in time in history And those movies, we were just joking about the Hot Fox and Robinhood, and that sword in the stone jungle book, Robin Hood, that stretch of films. Yeah I think Millennials is a very big, don't know I don't quite know why, but a lot of those movies really imprinted on us, and maybe they were shown on television more when we were growing up or something They're not the most iconic Disney animated classics from the forties and fifties. They're in that second tier, but I love them. Th are the ones I've seen among the most movies. I mean, I wonder whher it was just that the VHS releases coincided with when because we rented Jungle Book. We went on vacation with my cousins. And I think we just kept re renting it from the local video store and just did Jungle Book for a month straight So I, you know mayaybe just timeline and what was available to us? I think that's a good theory. That sounds right. His first The first film he worked on was Sleeping Beauty, which many people think is the most gorgeously animated of all the Disney classics. U So that's very cool that he's being honored And then the Irving Thawberg awward is going to Christine Vishon and Pamela Kofler who are longime producers and have worked with a huge number of people over the years with a real focus on LGBTQ filmakers, Killer Films is their production company. they're still very active. Yeah. They're still making I will not be surprised that they rack up picture nomination in the next ten years, given like they were all over Sundance this year, but they've worked on headwing in the Agry Inch one hour photo, the company, notorious Betty Page, they produced May December, materialists they produce.' They're great producers and really well known. But this actually felt I don't actually know how old they are, but I was like, this actually feels little premature just because they're still in their heyday. It's fine. Give people awards that don't totally count but are also very nice. The Thalberg is slightly different. And so I think it's cool and recognize people while they're still making stuff. I agree. And they don't give the Thalberg every year too. so that was an interesting choice. So four great people, hopefully you can see them be honored this fall by the accademy. and what are your thoughts on putting that part of the ceremony back on the show on the TV show because now it's something that happens in the fall and they don't air any of that. Right. They used to give away those awards on the telecast I think you could probably do like a shorter more produced version on the show. you know, in the way they do for in memoriums and other sorts of like it could be a segment. No problem. I would have liked it. I mean, you know, there's a very memorable Altman one where he received one gave a great speech and Paitier got one like this, I think Lumette got one like this. Like a lot of to me, the one thing I like about putting it on the telecast is component of film history where young people watching it evenven if it's a little bit boring I hear a name and the name sticks to their brain and then they think like, well, what did that person do? And what should I go back and look at? And we're entering a period where like people like Christine Bashanon are reiving honorary Oscars were like Their film history is fairly recent. You know, ye She was producing Todd Haynes movies from twenty five years ago that people will want to check out and that like isn't century old film history. it's relatively recent and it can be a portal. So I do like the idea of potentially spotlighting it more on the main telecast. But I do think also, you know, we're entering a territory in few years where it will all be on YouTube. and so I think it's honestly better to do if not to do a separate ceremony or at least to have the speech in full. you know, on YouTube and you kind of get people to check it out and you pique their interest, but that requires holding their interest for the entirety of a ceremony that's now just being live streamed. So I don't know how I feel that the Oscars becoming like just a bunch of clips that everyone checks out You know, It does seem like that's where we'll go. Yeah. You know, we're still available to program the Oscars channel on YouTube TV. But this would be a great programming on the Oscars channel. It's just how do you get to turn it on in the first place. It's challenging because it's more expensive to try to make this a TV show, but it also could mean more revenue. Yeah. So we'll actually what happens for our purposes in terms of the Oscars communicates. And if it becomes a little bit more of like not just the six month campaign, but a six month external programming venture, you know, where there's like a lot of stuff coming out about this and whether or not that hurts the telecast itself is probably worth exploring. M six months is too long because that's like half the year and then it doesn't feel special anymore and it's not an event But you know, if you kick it off with the governor's awards and then movies, events and you do early February is that what we've decided? is the right week the sight the february fifteenth after the superowl A after the Super Bowl becausecause I think is the best time. I hope they go to that I would settle for the third, but I think the third is historically NBA all star game Okay, I don't I mean, no one really cares about that except for the dumb contest, which they make fun of, right? I wouldn't say I'm enjoying NBA all star games. It's more like it's just a center of gravity thing with programming. Okay. Well But you know what? on YouTube, that won't matter We won't to worry about whether any is a. here is three months, two and a half to three months. I want Oscar stuff every day during that time or you want it all of you want it It hundred and sixty nine I'm not well. I want it all the time. I love it. I just don't think that's realistic in terms of holding people's attention. I agree with you. And it won't feel special. And you want the Oscars to feel special. You do when you go into this kind of curated environment of you have to go out and find it or it's algorithmically served to you rather than eventized It kind of changes things a little bit. and there is obviously consumptive patterns that are more about like reaching the sickos rather than trying to reach everyone, which is what's something you've said over the years too. I mean, that's true, but you know, last night, as we learned, there are people who have watched every single Nick game and then that when there is a live event and everyone is together focused on the moment, you kind of live events are the only thing we have left to actually grab people, which is a good segue PTA one best picture. Yeah to Spielberg podcasts Nicks up three one in the NBA finals back no longer hurts. I tell you something actually that I forgot to tell you, but so you and I are both Leos. About a week apart I think is when we were born. a week apart? Two years apart. so the planets were aligned slightly differently. but for our purposees What's your moon? I forgget. This is a Leo podcast Yeah I have another good friend who's a Leo, who is telling me at the beginning of the year twenty twenty six is just going to be our year The planets star like everything is just aligning where it is it's like it is Leo energy I don't I didn't do any further reading. What I know is what my friend Lauren Greenshotted and just like texted to me for about a week from various unverified Instagram accounts You've just reminded me. Maybe it's Leo season. G gott to be honest, I'm waiting for my my Lo year to kick off. But I did go to Can You're having a great year. That is true. That's true. You're in the midst of one of the great glow ups. Thank you so much. Kan PTA A PA movie my favorite of the year winning. That was good from an Oscar Sense. What else Kiki getting cast in Minecraft too. Huge. You know, her dreams coming true are my dreams coming true. Is Kirirsten also a Leo? Let's look at this really quickly. Kirsten Dun's birthday. I should know this. Kirststen no, april thirtieth, nineteen eighty two. I'm sorry that I didn't know your birthday K Yeah, I'll look posositive, you know I might go to the Chanel boutique when I'm in Venice, so You're having a greatcause I think because they might have some of the stuff in stock. you know there's a shortage? Sports surgery notwithstanding your family is healthy, right Everyone's doing well U This is when I start to get a little bit Nerv Yeah, totally. Its a little bit too much going well right now, but let's talk about disisclosure dayay. I ruined your elegant segue. Yeah This is, of course, the new film from Steven Spielberg It's written by David Kepp. Notably, the story is by Steven Spielberg. Steven Sielber has talked about writing The entirety of this fifty page treatment on his iPad and sharing it with his producer and eventually sharing it with David Kepp This is his Did he say whether he has an attached keyboard He did not, well, not as far as I know. Okay We're not in contact like that. so I I know, but you know, just I'm just trying when I'm visualizing it. These are the questions that no one else thinks to ask. I know.' When I'm writing, I need a keyboard. S, I cannot type on a screen. One thousand percent. And I know there are people with their notes app, but iPad seems a little do do I can work on a notes app for sure, but anything longer than one paragraph Give me a keyboard. Okay. Kp uses a keyboard. This is his fifth script for Spielberg. Their previous collaborations are An interesting collection of movies, Jurassic Park, The Lost World Jurassic Park, War of the Worlds and Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. This movie stars Emily Blunt, Josh O'Connor, Colin Furth, Eve Hewson, and Coleman Domingo The scores by John Williams, This is their thirtieth collaboration. We will speak about the score in this conversation. Director photography of familiar name, Janish Kamink. They've been working together since Schindl'sist. Production designer Adam Stockhausen, Oscar winner, costume designer Paul Taswell, Oscar winner Stan Spielberg has the elite department heads on this film The story is as follows, as a massive government conspiracy unravels, a targeted whistleblower races against time to bring about the extraordinary event that will change human history forever. Day of ultimate alien disclosure. Now before we talk about the movie, I wanted to foreground this conversation in what you think and what I think, but I'm interested in what you think about UAPs Sure, and the possibility of your own belief. Do you think that there is a life not just beyond our planet, but that It may have even come to this planet Yes, yeah. But Yes. both questions Yes, for sure. But I also Googled what UAP stands for yesterday. So I'm not paying attention to this Because frankly, and, you know I feel this way about fantasy novels and other stuff too. Like I'm just we've got too much going on here. You know, we've got too many other problems and things that I'm concerned about. I just like I can't take it on. That's such a tension film. It is. It is a huge. and I think the film successfully makes an argument for why I should care about it in a way that really did with me U But for the most part, I'm just not thinking about it. Like I again Like you've got my family stuff. We just had surgery, but also the world, this world is really broken. right. And so that is where my energy is going. So I didn't know that we had upgraded UFO's to UAP, which is unidentified UAP stands for it, I don't remember. U Aerial phenomenon. Yes. Okay So that said, this is just a simple mathematical problem for me. Of course that Earth is not the only living thing in the world. And I then watched a documentary yesterday. I also read the news from time to time, but I did watch a documentary yesterday, The Age of Disclosure. Yeah, I watched the On the on the recommendation of my friend Ashley. Yeah. I've seen this And I find that documentary credible is military propanda. Okay. But well, military or like ex military propaganda. and so much of it is about The threat that these UAP pose to American national security, which I was a little bit like relaxed. Okay? a lot. and it's ex military individuals But government officials. Marco Rubio is Well, sure, but you know, it's Marco Rubio. So there's you know, there's a hawkish element to all of it that I was kind of rolling my eyes at It does also bring together the basic reported information in such a way where I'm like, yeah, okay. So there there have seen things that we do not know about. I definitely I have a two tracked mind about this. Yeah. I think I align with you that as a mathematical equation To me, it's kind of undeniable that if you think Galaxies beyond galaxies. there is life outside of what we understand I'm fascinated by the potentiality of something having come to this planet and even interacted with human beings I'm a little bit more inherently skeptical of that truth. And that I think how you feel about that may actually impact your relationship and experience with this. Yes. Well, I think that I'm not that dissimilar from you because You know, I watched this and then it is using testimonials from people who have really bought into this stuff. and is really framed around two advocates or other noun that you want to use to describe them. but U is reporting from the New York Times and CNN and many scientists and I just There' enough evidence out there that I was like, okay, well, I can I can at least believe some of this. I don't think it really matters In any way to our lives? Well, yeah Because because and some some of it is a reaction to The age of disclosure is very aggressive military industrial complex bent and Marco Rubio being like, this is a national security threat, which If it's nothing's happened. If it's been eighty years, as you're saying, like we're doing fine. It's sort of like my house in earthquake insurance, which is just like, well 's been there for a while, but just you gotta be careful. you put it out in the world We're having a good month No, it's do also. I do we do have earthquake insurance. but This For the listeners in the other forty nine states. that's very important in California. an earthquake ins really believe that it's some sort of international or national u conspiracy theory or threat And thus I'm kind of like, That seems cool. but I don't know if I feel like the secrets of the universe are being kept from me. Sure. One of the ideas that I believe is proffered in the film possible that the visitations that have been experienced are actually from future humanity. that has created technology to travel back in time to observe maybe the problems that have been. Okay. be set upon this planet, which is just an idea I hadn't considered. but an idea like that enters firmly into the realm of science fiction speculation. Yeah. And I'm a person who's raised on science fiction speculation. I love stories like this. I've always loved books like this. I've read a lot of novels that cover this territory a lot of my film fascination is around films like this. I am raised on Spielberg. A lot of this, you know, Spielberg experience I've been having over the last couple of months is oriented in seeing close encounters, seeing ET, you know, being obsessed with minority report and war, The world's in the two thousands, like just loving his approach to that storytelling, and then also working backwards a lot and looking at seventies conspiracy science fiction, which there's lots and lots of it And then educating yourself on fifties and forties stuff that dovetails with H.G. Wells and a lot of other writers. And so all of this stuff is mostly unhopeful It's mostly about the panic that would be induced in our society if in fact there was like an incursion of Martian life or some other planet that we don't know about. and our inability to really get our arms around the fact that we're not only are we not alone, but we're not in control And Spielberg differentiated himself as a voice in filmmaking by being not just unafraid of the unknown, but by embracing it and by telling stories that were about how it wasn't necessarily A bad thing. It wasn't necessarily a dangerous thing. right There could be hope and beyond our own And I think that that has I think that that has actually dramatically impacted like a generation, maybe multiple generations of film fans. who see these kinds of stories differently. Now, he has shifted in the two thousands to a much darker perspective on these things. Yeah know, in addition to War the Worlds in Minority Report, Ready Player O,ike, there's a of movies that are about like thingsings are probably not going to turn out so well as he's gotten older. he's become a little bit more embittdered by what the world has turned into This movie Bring all that up to say This movie is a massive philosophical reckoning for him. It's like him trying to as accurately as possible express what he thinks potential reality of this happening could mean for us as a people. People are going to like or dislike the movie Yeah. The movie is not without flaw. we can talk through some of the struggles, I think the film has from a script perspective. But if you are interested in what the Steven Spielberg project about these kinds of stories has been This isn't a like Fascinating, wildly absorbing confrontation with what he's been trying to put on screen for forty five years Yes. Yes. Yes. listen, I think this is like a thrilling completely absorbing Steven Spielberg movie about aliens and whether they're real or not with movie stars and set pieces and It's I sat there making the Spielberg face up at the screen because what he can do in terms of making a sci fi blockbuster is unparalleled and shes she's the greatest to do it. and It's really fun. This one is cooky. This This movie is cookie and that's not bad and I don't say that to be dismissive, but it is it is way more literal than I expected. and really really, really invested in the actuality of this in a way I wasn't prepared for. And there's something about Palls Most other Spielberg movies, the tradeemark Spielberg movies, even the alien movies but not like the alien movies, but not just the alien movies. likeike Jurassic Park and Jaws and everything where you The way they're structured, you're brought along on the belief And you like become part of the hero's journey And this one I stayed at a slight remove at And I couldn't figure out why. and I think there's some structural reasons and even like who is the protagonist? um what answer this movie is trying to actually get at are part of the reason of that. but I think I say that it's a little out there because I don't, it didn't bring me fully enough along or I didn't connect enough to that very involved topic like subject matter that it's like really going after. No, you make a really good point about being so literal. One of the things that's really interesting about all of his other science fiction films is that you can read them very comfortably metaphorically that close encounters is about Um, A man without purpose looking for something and that maps neatly onto Spielberg at a certain stage of his life and maybe not having a full understanding of the family unit, not having had children being the child of divorce. You can look at ET is about a kind of loneliness as a young person and like looking for connection and not feeling a part of something until something comes into your life that changes everything. You can look at War of the Worlds very comfortably as a post nine eleven film. he talked about this on the two thousand one pod about the idea of this foreign invader destroying what we hold sacred. C can look at Minori report about the way that technology can sometimes invade our privacy and invade our ability to have free will big themes and big metaphors of those movies makeake them feel grander in a way and this is actually older person who's been thinking about something specific possibility aliens being real And then saying, let's tell a story about if they were That's not a metaphor. No, It's literally like if this were to happen and it happened this way, what would it mean for humanity? What would it mean for the whole world watching it That's kind of fascinating to actually at an older period of your life be like, let's just do brass tasks. You know, let's just let's just get right down to what I've been circling for fifteen years. Yeah. exactly. And it does have that end of life. We're not even at like last last third of life, last third of career quality to it I've kind like, okay, I've tried this all this different ways. I've accumulated all this information, but like Now here's what I really think and here's what it really is. And what are we going to do about it? Yeah. I think One of the ways in which the movie works really well is that it's like a pure conspiracy thriller. It's not an exploratory science fiction movie. It's a basically a chase movie.. It's a movie about two characters who are separated from one another, who don't know one another, who are on a kind of collision course to come together to reckon with the future of the world, really. I mean to save each other before the third before the evil person Yeah who is a combination of every single evil like text slash like a law enforcement villain in Ery Spielberg movie. I wrote down this is like Alex Carp from Palantier meets Jeff Bezos, you know, that there's like some sort of military industrial complex quality, but also this kind of privatized control quality. Sure, But there but like there is some minority report, the Max von Sidlau character, there is like all of H his minions are straight out of ET. Yes. So you kind of you said J all did Exactly theity figure and the people who are not paying attention. They come up a lot.. He's riffpping on some of the tropes that he has explored many times. But to me, the movies that it reminded me of were not the science fiction movies. was Duel and Sugar Lland Express and Jaw, movies that are about like being on the go. where you're in a fast moving vehicle. you're kind of racing into the unknown, but you're also trying to get away from something at the same time It's very seventies in terms of its construction. You know, it's a very three days of the condor where you're like, there's a man alone. He has a piece of information. People are after him, but he knows if he gets to the right place and he delivers that information, then all will be revealed And that isn't kind of an inherently Exciting brand of movie watching then for him I've seen people say this and I'm fairly well convinced the Post and the Fablemans feel like two movies that are a huge part of What he is continuing to explore, where it's very much a movie about the media V very much a movie about what broadcasting information can do, I would say a very old fashioned movie in that respect. and maybe a bit of an antiquated approach to how that works and like maybe what our relationship is to network news Yeah, whichich takes up a huge part of the final third of the movie. The movie is in part about a broadcaster, about a weather woman.ight I mean to it is literally in this very literal movie broadcast news, but it's about what we see on screens. And like what, you know, what we see onn a small screen versus what we see on Steven Spielberg's large screen or you know, outside of screen in the actual real world. Yeah. In a lot of ways, Bielberg is an establishmentarian, you know, like like he believes in the Washington Post and its ability to do good. Yeah. He believes in the possibility of the individual working outside of a system at the same time. and those two ideas are kind of in conflict. with this movie U You know It's a fascinating that something like this would come along when CBS News in sixty minutes is is. collapsing from within itself, you know, and the idea of like those those systems and those bodies maybe not mattering as much to like I don't watch CBS newews I think it's terrible what's happening there, but I don't feel that I'm losing something that matters to me. Same. and the sixty minutes of it all, I know most of those names completely disagree with what is going on in a basic journalism and intellectual standards sort of way. haven't watched it in some time. Yeah No, this the movie is tootems are a little older, right? There is a generational quality to what's going on here. I mean, there is a two thousand six Gwen Stefani needle drop in this movie that's I have been thinking about nonstop and having multiple conversations about How did that happen you think I have no idea. and I put it on this morning driving here as fast as I possibly could in order to try to get to the bottom of it. You think it was John Williams who picked it That would be great. I would love it. if John Wiams can do that entire verse at speed, I salute him. Yeah, there is a little bit of a This is this is not a G Z movie I'm qu curious how young people react to it. I I think if you're a cineophilic Spielberg allegant, the movie is very rich. If you're just looking for a plain old blockbuster, it's not going it's not going to be It satisfying in the way that a War of the Worlds is, where it's like a big explosive, massive, world threatening kind of film. It's a much more philosophical kind of movie, even though it is a chase movie. Before we go into spoiler territory and talk about the plot and some of those set pieces. sorry for spoiling Gwuen Stfani. huge spoil Um, Like I said, I see the movie as a question of how Spielberg sees humanity, that like his particular pathic point of view is If this happened, if we were all made to see ively that this is true At this point, the commercials of the movie are giving it they're showing you aliens in the commercials of the movie. So it's very clear what the movie is trying to do. in a way that is so literal that at times, I think it can feel like So that is actually what this is Do you agree with him? Do you feel connected to the idea this could slow down everything in the world and bring us all together in a moment of understanding and awe could wash away what exists beyond that singular moment in time Right And There there is a little bit of symbolism, of course, because there is a stand in for what movies do and what Spielberg does in particular on a screen but you know, but can something, can anything draw everyone enough together to stop what they're doing And look And be amazed and also not just be amazed, but feel empathy and feel and believe. Yes. There's there's something about the collectivist truth that now feels impossible. Yeah. We're like no everybody has their own point of view about things and the way that we consume information we're just like, well, they're trying to tell you this is wrong and're we're in a constant battle. The way that it is portrayed in the movie itself feels unrealistic or unachievable and feels like like a relic of even two thousand six or of a lost time. I agree. I totally agree. At the same time I was thinking as I drove in like We all spent last night watching one live event and you spent the last ten minutes just like being out of your mind and it's not something that we had a connection to. Now that wasn't global. It might have been national at this point. I think there are more people that know about this specific moment of what was really like wonder and joy unless you're a sppurs fan. We're twenty four hours away from the World Cup. Yeah the World Cup can do that. So There' some things that can still do that. So This idea of being gathered together and getting at least a large number of people to look at something and be amazed by something and be amazed by something on a screen is I still think possible. What it is matters and how big it how how much of the world you can get matters. And I don't know that there is anything that works on the scale that the end of this movie s demands. Yeah. Yeah. No I agree with you. I think there is like a little, it's not an niveitee. It's like it's a hopefulness almost. It's like I believe as that we as a people can come can evolve If we see this all together in a way that like I really wish I could get there, but I'm just too inherently dark a person to believe that we can do that. Now I also the without getting too much landing. I think Some of the most powerful part of The ending to me is that it evokes some things that we have seen and have done absolutely nothing about So what do what do you mean by that Well, like I don't are getting into spoilers? o well, let's wait. One last thing I want to knowe before we start going through the details is Um This is the most religiously coded Spielberg movie And sometimes I mean, maybe since the color purple, Just the invocation of Christianity The fact that one of the characters was a noviciate who left the church. A nun is a key character in the film all of these attempts to replicate the feeling of like God or living in a godless world and what are we looking for that can fill the gap of that And that's not a common Spielberg theme. Obviously like the kind of like secular religion of Munich that is a component of his filmography or of Jewish identity in Schindler's list, but spepecifically, faith Yes. and then What you need to do to affirm faith is a huge component of the movie that also feels a bit like a last third of your life suggestion. and to me, the movie is not like Well, Spielberg is a Christian or something. It's more like, this is my religion My religion is the I'll tell you what I wrote down It's His religion is spectacle and wonder. and that he's guided into a spiritual realm by the images he's consumed which he attempts to replicate images he saw in his head when he was ten years old in this movie the images he conjures in his mind and then the images he projects on the screen and that It's a real like the movie gooer as receiver of the body and blood. It's like getting communion. That's how he sees this experience. And frankly, as people know who've been listening to me talk about movies forever, like this is how I experience movies. I experience movies as the communication of faith and excitement. and that For me has replaced a proper faith. It has filled a gap in my life around feeling excited about something, about feeling faithful and hopeful about things about getting, um feeleing the possibility of transcendence, which is this is all very hfalutent, but I do think that it is what is on his mind. Yes. And I think so some of the religious stuff does have like a very specific Christianity, messianic tint tint to it, which I think is just because they want to borrow some of that story structure. And that works to varying degrees. but I do also you know, this movie isn't some ways about what it is like to be chosen what it is to be the gifted one, what it is to see things that other people do not uh, which And and then what do you do with that responsibility? which I definitely see you know, a Spielberg reading in as well. And it's not that dissimilar of your, you know, what is it to be the director and what is it to to understand whether it's about aliens or whether it's about how people experience dress. Only I have this information and only I can put it into the world.. And so and then but I feel compelled to share it with you. say it in this very specific way in a hopeful way, too. honestly. I think it's interesting that he makes it a diad. that he makes it these two people who have to come together for that thing to unlock. It's a little bit of close encounters, which, you know, a lot of people have The shorthand on this movie has been, you think it's close encounters, but it's not And it's not really close encounters, but I do think that there is a little bit of like close encounters to what happened to Barry You know? And what happens after you've had this moment and you have been chosen, but then you come back and you got to live in the world. Yes. And so and then, you know, the die out of it where I think in this one, the Richard Dreiffus and the mom character are flipped here Yeah. Ryan Jender flipped, at least, Ryan Jillian are. but So there is there's a lot of cllose encounters in this too. There is. I'm frankly relieved that it's not Yeah, sppoiler alert, a proper sequel to cllose Ecounters. There would have been something fun about that and maybe even more satisfying for your mainstream audience to just be like This is Roy's son, you know, and that's they they were touched and this family is part of a blessed lage of alien part human with this extraordinary wealth of information that has been granted to them And there is some similarity But then in terms of how we see the other life the alien life form. Totally. you know, which has this kind of classical Cation, formulation. You know, it looks like an old school Spielberg alien. It doesn't look like it's not a reinvention of those ideas. The same way that in the movie the movie uses the tropes of the potential of alien life coming to Earth. crop circles arerea fifty one military experimentation president having information about this and then not revealing it recovered memories of alien encounters, all of these things, which have been in the stew of alien conspiracy and in sci fi storytelling over the last seventy five years He puts it all in the movie purposefully to be like, well, yeah, it's real, which is an amazing choice. And it's kind of it's a very poo faced choice. Yeah, you know, there's there's not a grain of cynicism in this movie And I find that to be a fascinating chory. I'm not sure how people can feel about that. but He's doing it to kind of affirm anxieties and to affirm in some ways those twenty seventeen New York Times reports that you're referring to, the age of disclosure,s discussion. That is the thing is that you and I have been reaching for like larger symbolism and what does this all mean? and what do these images you know make us think of and feel? It is all there and You know, I don't think the face stuff is unintentional. I don't think the the examination of wonder and all of that is unintentional. But I come again to this point of being, I realized towards the end of this movie that this was just about Yo, aliens are real. you know? Like that's it. That's what Well that What is he trying to say to me? Yo, aliens are real. And I was like, okay. And what would we do with that? Yeah, you know, and what does that mean for? But like sure And what should we do about it? I guess? Well Lyn let's at the plot because that raises I think one of the critical questions as to whether the dramatic tension will work or not The movie is about these two people, Margaret Fairchild, who is a television weather reporter for a Kansas City station and who is a woman who is kind of A drrift. It's it's she's very motivated to be successful. She has a calling of some kind clear And she's got this Layout musician boyfriend played by Wyatt Russell. and he's kind of like, You're killing a babe, like it's all good. and she something's off And we see her very early on in the film U not quite feeling settled And then there's the character, the Josh O'Connor character, whose name is Dr. Daniel Kellner. and he's a cybersecurity expert for a large security corporation called WardEx And this is like a big agency that is within the military industrial complex that safeguards evidence about What we learn in the first act of the movie, about the existence of aliens and the fact that they have been coming to this planet. This is communicated as soon as Josh O'Conor speaks to his girlfriend Jane what it is that he's doing And just for the record, I didn't know this watching the film Wordx stands for waved reporting, comma, development and extraction. Wave of reporting is a term for government affiliated agenents or groups that are not required to submit data, documents or any kind of accountability reporting to a regulatory agency. Also the name of my new substat. I'm not sure if you would name your organization Wardex with this level of detail about what it is that they do there. Rason, can I get a metaphor for this group In general, I have found that I do not understand the naming and jargon conventions of any sort of tech compomany Okay benign or techno fashion. Okay. You know. Well, I want to talk a little bit more about them because Margaret and Daniel, they have the special connection, they have the secret history Um Unclear, they remember something Something is ss happening to them. Well, something's happening. and they They know certain things. and have instincts, and they arere also things that they don't remember. That's right. Yeah. And their childhood is sort of a black box. If you thought you were gonna to get through a Spielberg movie without complicated childhood, wrong. And so they don't know what's going on there But they do know like They know patterns or numbers or where people are or in Margaret, Emily Blnt's cases languages and u and secrets about people. can she can essentially read mindes. Yes. She has a kind of linguistic connection to all communication. And he has a kind of computational skill that hits him at a stage of his life and then allows him to become a hacker who is then arrested and then after he's arrested, he is kind of drawn into Wardx to use his great skills and kind of held against his will to some extent in an effort to better effectively protect the information about aliens, which he then uses to kind of break free. Right, but neither of them know that until the very end of the movie. they know is that Daniel knows that He's really good at math and that oding and coding and that he can't remember his childhood and that, you know, certain things just come very easily to him all of a sudden and are increasingly become coming very easy. And Margaret knows that she wakes up one day and just has a lot of instincts about how to talk people in and out of things. Yes. And she doesn't even realize when she is communing with those other languages and those other communication styles There's the very famous moment from the trailer where we see her during a live broadcast speak in this clicking alien language.. And it turns out that the only person on eararth who can understand that language and hear it understood as English is Daniel. Daniel is in possession of these files and he he is the one in pursuit of Disclosure dayay. Yeah. He is the one who wants to show the world what Ward x has been protecting, what he has been working for them to do. and he believes that by revealing the truth about alien life planet. Right. Everything will change. He doesn't really enunciate beyond that that means. And so the thing that I want to ask you Before we get into some of the filmmaking and setpiece and exciting stuff in the movie is Do you believe or even Like can you give yourself over to the central premise that revelation is everything? The idea of just saying this is real change the way we see our lives in this world far too cynical for that. And I was really reminded of of talking with my father in law about Watergate and then about the Trump administration. And there that phase from twenty eighteen I wantannaanta last year where there was so much reporting and every year you'd hear from every day you'd hear from my father in law, we got him. L this is the piece of evidence, like this is the piece of news, this is the piece of something That is going to make the difference. and Obviously that has not been the case And I remember asking him in the seventies you know, as all of the Watergate information was coming out and the Pentagon paper speaking of the post Like did you did you have a sense that This was going to matter and something was going to happen. And he said, yes, absolutely. You know, it was going to take time, but you knew it was going to build to something, and it ultimately did in Nixon's resignation. R We have not seen any accountability of it. And so to me, this is a little bit of like a boomerish belief, you know, that if you can just get the one truth there that everyone has to give into it. And I think the most demoralizing part of our last ten, fifteen years of life is that That's not the case. Yeah. I mean my own very specific politically coded version of that is Bush Gore and feeling like sure, you know, which is, you know, twenty per I shoted in, you know and feeling like, oh, wow, no, we won't be having our water gate or whatever. This isn't going to turn in the direction that you think is adequate. But I think that's really, really well put and that generationally we have not lived through A flip like that where it was like Justice be done Act, the conspiracy can become clarified to us all and we can the truth can be revealed. and we can kindind of sleep comfortably knowing that there is the ability to kind of make right and for us all to understand what has transpired here And if you are not your father in law's age ' Stevensilberg. And so there is this kind of hopeful when a view of this movie that God I want to believe in I really want to believe in And I know if listen, Um, If aliens are real and they've come to this planet and they're shown to us. Yeah I won't making movieodcast anymore I'll making an alien podcast. L like I will get obsessed with that and what it means It's going to be a pretty dramatic thing that happens. I just don't know if it's going to do the thing that this movie is hurtling towards for two and a half hours. You don't you're concerned about the big picture? No, no, no. I'm just stuck on Again, this is like to Steven Spielberg use a keyboard on his iPad. Okay. so news breaks that aliens are real. and we've been talking about them. And you see this probably on your phone, right? News alert. Did you still get news alerts? It's good. I'm glad that everyone should turn them off for their mental health You get a text message. And who's the first person to text me? Chris, obviously obviously. So Chis. And you know, I understand just like making a podcast with with Chris, you two just like run off into the, you know, sunset together and make your beautiful alien podcasts, which is why you a part of that? That's a beautiful look. You don't wantt want. It's really nice that I'm included. Thank you for inviting me. Well we don't have to change the name or anything. It's still the big picture. This is life the bigger p our own But no, but seriously, you're like, okay now now I got to read up on aliens. You didn't even know that there were shark attacks. No first of all, that's not true. There was one shark attect that happened and I wasn't reading the news at that time. so you're like, you didn't know Do you know historically? I don't know what that is now. Do you know about the L? Like see this about You don't know about stuff. Yeah, but this one would be different. This is not But so then you just fucking aliens are on Earth. So then you throw out all the blue race and you're like, okay, this is what I do know past this prologue. So why are you But but like How much time are you spending a day like every day learning about aliens once you know that they're real What if I just turned it all over to that Yoube you wouldn't actually do wouldould you really really nervous right now about the future?? I'm just No, I'm like genuinely trying to understand this is a little bit like at some point I just don't understand why you and Tracy need to own so many blue rays. And I just like I don't really understand. Why do you need to own so many blazers? Why are you talking about? Because we do show every single twice a week and you need to wear different ones U I need to watch different movies whenever I want I'm like genuinely trying to so this revelation would be so earth shattering literally, pun intended to you that you You would rededicate your life to just amateur study of aliens. I wouldouldn't be amateur. I'd become an expert because that's what I do. Here's what I think would happen to me, honestly. Okay I'd be like Cool and also messed up and I would like read some articles. That would be your reaction. That's cool, but also No when we would have your fucking' mind blown Well I know you. You would not be like, oh interesting So so what is what is the disclosure that's being given? Okay. so let's go back to the mom because it's related, right? Okay the This is a consequence that the two characters don't realize when they're being kind of pushed towards not only escaping Wardex but getting the truth out. And Margaret is really more on a quest to kind of figure out what is calling to her and what this thing is, But Daniel's goal is very clear He's like, I have to get on television and I have to show these files to the world. Yeah. And that's really the movie's engine. and the movie spends more time with Daniel than it does with Margaret in the first half. It also gives his motivation, which is pretty clear, which is like the files and what he has seen that has changed his mind after I think, almost ten years working at Wordx and keeping this information private is that he finds videos of interation interrogations of these alien light forms, which is he sees torture. Yes. And they're very upsetting and they are recreated. He shows one of the videos to the Jane in the first third of the movie Isir ariend played by Efus. Yes.. So you get like a certain amount of disclosure pretty quickly and he says very plainly Like I saw this and I couldn't keep silent anymore. And then the way it is filmed is deeply upsetting and it is like any, you know reported torture be, I agree. Yeah. But it is very affecting. And so And so what he is doing is he is not it's not just about we've been lied to and we deserve the truth, but we need to right a wrong.. And that resonated with me more than like hated, you know that they're aliens. And that is a theme throughout the rest of the film. That's the flip side of the film's dramatic tension is, do you believe that actions of a Wardex style agency are even logical Actually what's most important is to like preserve the The veil there is no beyond our own. that it's too dangerous to say wo things, one, that aliens exist, and two that there has been an eighty year long cover up you know, in ' forty seven, I think is when area fifty one is rumored to have transpired that for this entire period, this entire history We've known This very small group of people have known and they've been protecting the world from this truth, which could shatter government operates, it could shatter the way that faith operates around the world. It would just shift the shift raise the temperature of humanity in a way that is unsafe. Like do you believe in that idea is the tension of That's the good versus evil of the movie. That's the Th these are the two heroes and this is the villainous figure and that the villainous figure represents that point of view that to let everyone know would drive them crazy. Yes W would would shake up the world order I don't know if I think so. I'm not sure if I do either. And that was sort of when we were watching age of disisclosure, the closer it got to, you know, our skies were unsafe and they turned around like nuclear missiles. And I was like, okay, everybody, relax a little bit.. That's why I'm so surprised to hear you say like, well, as soon as we find out there were aliens, I'm rededicating my life to the research. So then let's go back to where I was going with this, which is that as the story goes on and these two characters eventually come together It's revealed not just that you know Alien life is still on Earth, but we have to we have their tools. Okay. the magic wands, the devices R. and that If something like that were introduced into our lives That is something that would really draw my attention. This is something that is much talked about in science fiction is the idea of alien technology coming, and maybe alien technology has been coming much as two thousand one suggests thousandousands of years ago, and constantly giving us the ability to update and evolve what what humanity can accomplish There's something undeniably fascinating about that that like what is what could this want in the film The wand is capable of a great many things. Sure. creating psychic links between people and allowing someone to appear where they are not, it also allows people to be come invisible completely Yeah, there are things that can happen that absolutely break the expectations of modern life. Yes, but only certain people are able to use them.' interesting. So are those people? Right? Well, they're they're the chosen people, which is when it becomes less sci fi and more religious to me, which is But a lot of sci fi. Why I'm not like jumping up out of my seat being like, well, I just gotta, you know, if you let me know, I put in the big picture. You know, but my magic w. The reason why I would replace movies for me is it's Cambellian hero myth. Like to identify people who are the it's Luke Skywaler. R. You're the only person that can save the galaxy. I love stories, man. That's what I always say. I love stories. that's a great you would be rededicating yourself as just like a story watcher You would be to a greater understanding of my relationship to it and why I think it matters. Thats That's what I do. that's I'm trying to do And and the movie is drawing these feelings out of me. and it's one of the reasons why The movie transcends for me. The movie hasn't enough for me to get my arms around where I'm like, this really has me thinking about what this would mean, which is what the movie is trying to do. Now I don't I think ninety eight percent of the people who watch this movie will not think about it in the way that we are. I think what they will think is There are some amazing setpieces in this. Yeah. That's what I was gonna say is that I It I transcended in just the actual movie making. That's Josh O'Connor and Emily Blunt hanging off a train, not really, but it sure looks like they are and I can't believe they're doing that. And I'm very stressed out and I'm very excited. and I'm very moved. I think there are a lot of like very moving images. the extent to which it plays that emotional protective vein of of the alien life that Josh O'Connor's character is concerned about like really worked on me. So there is a lot that works on it works in it for me It's not about like, I got to go find the wand or I'm sorry, there's one reveal at the end, which we'll talk about that I just I was like, Dg, what We'll get there There's a really funny idea at the very, very beginning of this movie, which opens with a professional wrestling match. And I will say when the movie started, I was like, is this the wrong movie? I did too Like I thought they ran the wrong wheel. I didn't know St Silber was even aware of professional wrestling. Handful of I think their AEW performers are wrestling. and I watch AW so I can't locate who the wrestlers are, but you know, pretty fairly credibly staged wrestling match You know, wrestling is all about K f Wrestling is all about the the story that we're telling that is fake. And we all kind of know it's fake. And there's something kind of funny about We all really know aliens are real. We're going to pretend like Was it wrestling? Was it UFC was it was wrestling. wrestling. Yeah. And that is the site of A handoff. R where information is acquired by the Josh Joshua Cnneror character. is Is he's acquiring something or that he's giving something? He's acquiring something, right? No, I think it's a handoff.'s just wearing the backpack they're like sit back down and take the backpack off. And that leads to a big confrontation because the Wardx security crew is there. and But they're really dumb They're very dumb and they're out witted by Josh O'Connor and He andy Ewon escape And then that sets the movie off on this course of just Constant Chase. He They're on the road to a safe house, They're constantly looking for places to go. They're working in conjunction with this character played by Coleman Domingo, who is also a former Wordx employee who had been a true believer in their mission for a long period of time and now operates in the film as I would say a kind of u underwritten character Yeah, who's sort of like Um Guide expository guide of the story. Yeah.'s like he's the omniscient like he's the benevolent person on the shoulder and then the Colin Firth character who is who runs Wardex, his name is Sanlon is the evil character on the shoulder. No one's ever beenamed Sandl but a good guy. And there are there win moments throughout this movie, both in terms of the people who know everything and who are guiding our characters and the characters themselves. in the filmmaking on Well, I'll say two things. One, We love Josh O'Connor in the show. I think his character is also a bit underwritten. And I think his character carries a heavy burden in the movie because He's not only constantly explaining things, but we don't get to really understand him as a person as much. He's just a vessel for carrying the story counterpoint to it is a Margot character who is a character who is not delivering information and does not know what is going on And that allows two things. One, you get more invested in her emotionally because you want to know where she's going and why Two, it's an amazing platform for Emily Blunt antastic in this movie. I think this is best performance. Completely agree. I was sitting there midway through just being like, oh, she's finally going to get nominated for an Oscar and like and I'm with it. you know, And I love Emily Blunt and I think that she's just been in rolls and with material that doesn't serve her. She's amazing. and Watching it, I wondered how much of it is that the movie is structured to be her movie versus how much is she just running away with it? Interesting. I don't know. It's hard to say This movie is funnier than a lot of Steven Spielberg movies. likeike there are more actual in jokes including the Gwen Stefani needle drop And I think some of that is just because Emily Blunt is like a very skilled comedic actress and finds it and so Do you think that the movie' meant to go with her also, you know jumping ahead a little bit, it's ultimately revealed that She's been given the the language and the like the communication skills and he's been giving the math skills. So it's not surprising that the movie then goes with the language and feelings character. I agree and it's at its best when it's with her. Yeah. And if this was Rooney Mara or Natalie Portman. I'm not sure if the movie works. No. And it's because of she has that ability to play the light comedy of confusion that is so essential to her character, but also You know She's a beautiful movie star who is someone who would be incredibly a broadcaster. And see, you're really with her in this movie. and every time she was on screen, I was like, this is cooking Like this is very entertaining and I really want to know what's going on with her And that's an essential part of a sci fi mystery. You really have to have somebody. They did it, That's a really interesting choice that Spielberg and Kat made to make O'Connor for him to just be wholly credulous and communicative about what he's doing the whole way through. Now he gets a moment near the end where he starts becoming confused about their connection and what happened to him in the past, but he's not really exploring that too much. Even when he's explaining to Jane the Houston character like, I can understand what's being said here. Yeah. he sees the clip of Emily Blunt's character He's not like shocked He's justt like this just makes sense to me Right. And so I actually felt a bit at a remove from him becausecause he almost has like an alien quality v. Yes, one hundred percent. And also I mean, just structurally in the story, you do ultimately learn more about Margaret. They're trying to get to the to the bottom of what's going on with her and her childhood and You learn nothing about him So like there is just there's an actual imbalance in what is written and to your point about him being slightly underdeveloped. any of the emotional reveal that you got with her character. Yeah, and just based on the marketing going to the movie, you think it's going to be Jh O'Connor's moie with a supporting performance by Emily Blunt. And at times it just becomes a full blown Emily Blunt movie. Now, So I'm fine with. do. Like I said, I think It must have been three or four years ago we had a conversation after a movie that she had made where we both said the same thing. We were like, this is one of the great actresses, Devorce Prada, Edge of toomorrow. Like she's a great star And she's picked so many lousy movies and kind of been stuck in all this stuff and It's cool that Spielberg was able to unlock, I think what's so special about her Yeah And part of it is just that the movie just feels a little bit brighter and lighter when she's on screen As they race towards each other It never really into like This is a romance or this is a movie about like a brother and sister. like they're connected Yeah They have their own arcs in a very specific way. The most exciting stuff is usually happening with Josh O'Connor's character though. The most like thrilling chases the most Um, exxclammatory filmmaking When Spielberg is like, yo. I still have my one hundred two mile an hour fastball. And there's two or three sequences in the movie, one where Um O'Connor's character is in a safe house And he is attempting to leave before the Wardex security arrives. R and The camera starts following him out of the house a long extended tracking shot. where he's running along a fence post and the camera moves through the fence post and around and he goes all the way out and around and jumps into a car and drives off, which then leads to an epic chase And as that scene was happening, I was like, Yeah, you turned to me and you were just like Hey, like like I was like Spielberg is the the one. He's the one. Like I've just not seen that move before. I've not I've not felt like inside of a person's experience in a movie in quite that way. No, it's not a It's a very showy move, but it is a move that you kind of need to get excited about O'Connor's character escaping There's a similar move that is not as action packed, but is as critical with Blunt's character. Right. she needs to get to work and is late to work and so after speeding and there's a funny developed over cllose of the movie where they are both just absolutely maniacal drivers, like unexplained for no reason. So she's speeding, she gets pulled over, reads the trooper's mind. gets out of her ticket and then it's it's a tracking shot from the street into the studio and onto the set of her weather Um at her weather station where she has to interact with like six or seven different people She speaks in Korea and she inserts herself into a guest who's dealing with World War I. Oh, yeah. So World War II is about to break out in North Korea. Ccurrnt to this squad There is a massive world conflict R whereere it looks like North Korea is going to bomb the United States and start World War three. Right. But so she's translating and like translating the nuances of the language that the actual translator can't communicate. She stops to help a friend, like a colleague with a you, personal work situation that is just mind reading. She's like producing three other segments. and it's like all in one It's really, real and which then leads to that climactic moment that you've seen in the trailer with her doing the cooking. It's amazing stuff. It It's amazing because it's a fusion of that huge physical production and his style and sense of blocking and where to put the camera plus her performance, which is so great. And she is literally speaking Korean and Russian in this movie, I don't speak those languages. R. Seemed very credible. She clearly learned to some extent how to do that. In addition to this alien language, which was created for the film, which apparently is actually her clicking. and I guess it was her idea that she was like, I have an affinity for kind of being able to do a clicking sound. All of that stuff works really, really well There are a few other extraordinary set pieces. You mentioned the train. which is an idea. that Spielberg has been wanting to do since he was a kid It's traamatized in the Fablemans and it's shot he shot in on eight millimeter as a kid and he wanted to do it in dual. He wanted to do a moment where truck pushed a train or pushed a car onto the train tracks And that whole sequence is like Hold your breath tight Excitited stress what ye Yeah. movie making. Yeah Um And then one other one that I I've never seen before that I really enjoyed. There was really much more old school sci fi was the invisible house which is the set that is created in the third act of the film Emily Blonde's character so that she can go back Ray in her memory to what happened to her as a young girl and be reminded of the connection that was made when aliens in the form of these animals, which we've been seeing in the trailers and been like, why does this look like a hallmark commercial where there's a God A stag and a cardinal and what is the other animal that I'm forgetting? who is a fox? Yeah these CGI animals. that represent some memory in her mind and that memory is the aliens have made themselves appear to be these animals so they may visit her gift her with these powers. R. Power to minery, the power to understand all languages, all these things that were seeen throughout the film They're in this house, they're doing this work. The diet is complete, the two memories are fused. We see that there is only One thing that can be done now is just to show the world the truth, and then WardeX shows up. in this constructed home And Emily the on character uses The device, right, the magic wand she hold it in a very pronounced That noess It lights up. I was thinking of violet from the Incredibles, but Oh, that's too. Yeah. Yeah, I like that and Everybody disappears. And Wardex arrives to an empty garage. Right. and It's just old school Spielberg, like brilliant How is this happening kind of visual trickery and escape strategies that is like a little bit of Raiders of the Lost Ac, a little bit of AI, a little bit of like you've not quite seen a visual execution like this that then leads to another chase and the race to get to The new studio. Right. And then I wanted to talk with you just a little bit about the execution of the final act of the movie. Y. spepecifically like the final The visit to They m Kansas City station. and then once The mission to broadcast is accomplished. So once everything has gone live, so it's They have hours and hours of footage that they've copied to a local hard drive. I appreciated the technical mechanics of it and knowing that At some point network would cut and you need to have your own server and XYZ, you know, they thought through. Yeah Yeah Yeah And like credible without seeming too complicated. And so it's live. and then It's live on one station and then it goes national and then it goes to all the other stations. They're carrying without the bug and then you see it going international and that everyone is all at once. and they're cutting from World War I to watching Um, this live footage that is airing unedited and they have They've recreated created, I should say, I guess, I don't know A lot of footage of what seemed to be or what are alien life forms interacting with humans and mostly military complexes and more interrogations And they have a newscaster narrate what she's seeing live and kind of recreate the moment of being a human being watching this, you know, it's sort of like Kron Kite withith the JFK assassination or with the mooon landing in real time. which I thought was really effffective, that act that actress whose name I hope' trying to find her name I can't find it. is wonderful and It puts you in the position of watching this stuff for the first time and what it would feel like. I thought it was a really, really smart script decision and a great performance. where just watching the footage. No it remind me of when there's a presidential election and you're watching a ch. Yeah. and you spend your night with one voice that is anchoring this experience that feels like it is historical And I totally agree with how you're describing it, that Sticking with this woman who I'm very sorry that her name escaes me. she might actually be a real newscaster. I think she is, but I'm not familiar with her But she gives this amazing performance as we are you have to believe her to believe that this is how it would play out. Now I will say when I was watching the movie I was like, this is too quick. They've skipped a step here in terms of not just verifying the information, but in our world of deep fakes. I think most people who saw that Even though there are reams and reams of footage of aliens and all of this stuff that O'Connor's character has brought to the fore We live in a time where people are m so skeptical about this stuff that everything just seems fake and I think that the It would have been interesting to show a not complicit perspective on this. Now it would have changed the sort of faithful, religious moment of communion. R that we all feel that is clearly the point of the movie. They jump so credibly in the broadcast booth in New York. from this Kansas City affiliate to national news, to then taking this national Um NBC exclusive and very quickly allowing it to be national and then worldwide non exclusive with no vetting with no even suggestion that this could be fake in the world, this sort of like No they takes over. They say that we ran it They're like, we ran some AI program. Yes, yes. checks out or something. It was like one one ADR. It was like a ground check. I don't know mayaybe that exists, I don't know. But it's a yada yada to get through that particular concern. That was I did bump on this. I was just like, I don't know if this would happen this quickly. This seems like a lot. That being said considering that I'm going be alien podcaster soon I would have been super excited by like in minute three like, there's a lot of footage here. Well, so then then you're watching the footage and I thought the footage that they created was like very upsetting and affecting. And you know, I think using the same alien bodies that we have seen in it's similar to close encounters. just sort of like a standard like emoji alien face and head. and then but they're smaller, so they have a childlike quality. And they are being tortured and put in camps and tormented. and they look sad and scared and confused. and it reminded me of, you know recent footage in the United States and certainly in Guantanamo and all sorts of things, very upsetting to watch. So I did think that that works Um or Lah at least affected me. And I saw the newscaster than narrating it though I agree with you was fast forwarded was emotionally affecting. Then it starts cutting to the rest of the world just watching And people are looking down at their screens, but you know you go to airports, you go to public spaces, you see people less so watching on large screens, though it does happen somewhat because the implication is that the entire world has just clicked over to this one feed. It hasn't been an NBA finals quity where it's like people in Timesquare watching on the g screen but also people are in their homes. There's the shot of Elizabeth Marvel and the Nunnery, they're all like crowded around of television. I'm like, what were they watching before this? Were they were forty people in the room? I guess they're watching the World WarI news together, which That's the thing There needed to be maybe this other cataclysmic event that everyone would be crowded around to allow for this moment to happen. Right and it invokes You know, we didn't have smartphones for nine hundred and eleven, but in the sense that at some point during nine eleven, if you were not in New York you were watching. So it has that cat that catoc catastrophic like scale to it. But the fact that you do have phones kind of makes a different makes a difference. And the fact the idea that everyone would just be sitting there next to each other staring on their phones looking at the same thing. I don't know. I don't know if I buy that problem we face every single As someone who would be excited by the existence of aliens? I mean, the other thing too that you have to note is that in all of the footage that is shown that is created of the alien interactions They're never in a position of aggression There's never a time where they are presenting a threat in any of the footage. We don't actually know They have the technology to come to this planet They have the technology to create a magic wand that can allow you to disappear or to create a psychic link with a person in another city or in another you know, another world They're not violent And that this is goes back to a an old Spielberg idea. that Roy getting on the ship is safe. and it's actually salvation to go be with these other this other species, this other you know this other band of existence that we don't totally understand because it's not going to attack you. It's not going to hurt you. There's nothing to fear And in the final moments of the movie in which the alien is rolled out for the world to see As you noted on a segay. That's a really large. all the animals, and sorry, not all the animals, all the aliens. who are featured in the disclosure footage or small and that you kind of get a sense of scale And then this is the largest alien about you've ever. quite old alien. Really old. They've aged the alien. Yes the alien on it's almost as if like the older you get, you just like keep growing bigger and bigger that aliens don't stop growing. It's like one part the Hannibal Elector Gurney Like it's basically a segue Coleman Domingo has somehow made it to the news station along with Colin F. they have some unspoken resolution. Again, these are not the most well fleshed out characters.. And they say and and like and Colin first character Scanlon remembers his wife or something. And so then so he has a moment of emotional resonance and it's like, fine, release the alien. And Coleman says like, okay, bring her out. and it's like it's honestly like they're rolling out a prize on the prices, right? you know, but instead They roll out this giant giant a G Grand Cherokee. Re alien I's just like, okay, that's a really large real alien. And like clear like a sculpture an you know, it's like it's it's practical. It's not a. It think it was CGI or maybe it's a combation of both. I think I think there's CGI. Because then Josh O'Connor and Emily Blunt, Margaret and Daniel like go over to the greet the alien and they're just like I know you. and so there's some sort of Like Holy Trinity thing going on here. Father Son, Holy Spirit. And they or Father Son, holy alien And they have a moment of emotion and love and recognition And then and then Emily Blunt She puts on a blazer, thank God, before she does her transmission. I likeked her sweater I liked it, but it's not what I would choose for an internationaler girl. Well listen, it's just And there's also a funny moment where the makeup person says, wouldould you like some makeup? And she's like, Yes. Yeah And then and then they turn on a shototight right in this spotlight just for her I thought the Blazer was the right choice for the international disclosure transmission U And as the really old alien Jep Grand Cherokee looks on J turns to the camera and says, listen The end I really like that last I like her to the camera and the last shot. I thought that was really cool. I was still bumping a little bit on the giant alien because that was when I was like, o, you just really are putting a real alien in this. Well, I think it's very purposeful, I believe, which is that it's The movie saying You've seen all this footage Maybe you still don't believe This is the last step Yeah toward belief Here he is. O she is. Yeah. we don't know. C be she? Maybe that's not how they think of it We don't know. There'd be a gender free race I U I alsoso really like the ending. The ending does the thing that is just like OkayK, we're done You know, you gott to be like, wait What? And then now where where do I go with this? And like how do I feel? And you know at the screen that we went to, it felt like There were a lot of people who we know in the media that were at this first screening that we saw. And I would say half of them were like, wow, and half of them were like, I don't know about this. Yeah. And that's interesting. And I do think that that will be roughly the reaction. And I was like, that was a real alien And that's what that's what they wanted the world to think as well. Okay, listen, if you rolled in that alien right now ye Yeah, now that would be a. Then I quit Th I will start investigating might quit No, that's If it's a show Alien't be my co host. It seems like a nice hast. It maybe thirertain share race. sereriously. Wh Tracy and Chris, watch your backs Um So big the alien. It was very big It was tall It was tall. It was aged It was it was Wbiesque. It was Wembiesque. Oh, you still got it, Steve Spielberg. Yeahah, I really enjoyed this movie. I think it's u You nailed it at the top of the conversation There's there's no metaphor here. It is literally what if this happened? And It's fascinating because the movie, when it was first rolling out in the marketing, there was a lot of criticism likeike what is this about? Why aren't they telling us anything? Is this a sequel to something? And then we saw the final trailer in April And and I was like, okay This is like is what we think it is. And then they started sharing that widely. And I don't know if that was because they were nervous about how the movie might perform or if it was like, well, the plan was always to kind of slowly reveal that this was in fact anen film from Steven Spielberg It gives away quite a bit You kind of go in and you have to having now having seen the full film, I was sort of galled by how much of footage from the final. The only thing they do not show you is the really big alien. Yeah. That's true. It's true. doesn't really the movie to the doesn't explain plot. Yeah. It doesn't really explain what's happening. Yeah. And it doesn't give away, I think, just some of the more general thrilling stuff you get from a Spielberg Chase movie. A lot of it is already out there, which is interesting. I really liked it. I mean, no surprise There was a very low likelihood that I wasn't going to like it. I had a fantastic time. Yeah. I really liked it and I also I've only seen it once. I would like to see it again to. I wish we had for a second.. Al we did a good job here, I think exactly that's because there's a lot to work with and there is a lot that stays in your mind.. I think it is That's. Cookie isn't bad. Cookie means it's interesting. And' different. And yes, and it's different, but still in conversation with all of his other works And I'm very interested to watch it a few more times with the understanding of like, okay, this is like you know, you're a late career thing and you're making a You're dealing with your other work, you're trying to say some things, you're trying to get some things off of your chest U I think it's a rich text And also really fun. and also large alien on the se. It's little goofy. It's a littleoofy. There's no doubt about it. I mean, there's something a little goofy about being about believing in aliens. I think it was more like just keeping him warm Oh sure ye, yeah. likeike the tinfil that they give you after you run a marathon. That's right That's what I think it was. That is what I think it was. They don't have clothes, I guess. They don'tar clothes. these aliens. whyy don't aliens wear clothes because they are not as uncomfortable with their bodies as we are. Yeah. interestnteresting. And also maybe their atmosphere U doesn't like great on the skin as much. I mean, you know, you they probably don't have to wear SPF either. You know, you weren't built for this life, but maybe aliens were podcast. Are you daring me do a naked podcast? I'm really asking if you should ever do. I will do it I will do it. I'll do it. I'll raise funds. I will absolutely do it for charity. D'tt get me so intense I' say No one who wants that. You'd be surprised. I actually I'm not, but I mean, we should just really We should make about a movie about the people who want that. That would be Lgend all of. Wheel them out on sideways. I'd like to say the name John Williams again. Sure. I think this is some of his best work in a long time. I think part of the reason why the movie feels so propulsive and exciting is because you can feel him getting locked in, you know, he doesn't really have any bed scores where you're like, oh, he missed on that one But you know, I was talking to a filmmaker last week and They were they described him as the last a melodist compomposer? Yeah And I thought that was a great way of framing him. You know, a lot of the contemporary composers, a lot of whom I really like are very percussive figures. They're really about and that's response to kind of what contemporary popular music has been in roughly the last forty years where it is very beat driven, it is very It is meant to thrust you into this kind of heartbeat feeling Now he has he does that with melody. That's what the jazz score is. Yes. He's using a piano to capture that feeling. And he does the same thing in this movie And he's ninety four years old. And that's just amazing. It's amazing that he still can conjure this and that he and Spielberg have this Now fifty year relationship great living musician, one of the most important musicians of our of like of our lifetime, it's shaping not just film scores, but Classical music music culture. I mean, my two year old or almost two year old can like sing Star Wars the theme. and then I just start crying. L its but it is amazing when you think about what he has made has probably traveled further than almost any other cultural artifact of the last fifty years. really great way of putting it. I think there's something to that. I mean, obviously the two of them in conjunction. you see their impact in sound and vision that like It's major stuff. and you know, he's won five Academy Awards for his scores. He's among the most celebrated composers Certainly of our lifetime I think you could win again. We haven't even seen most of the movies that are going to be competing for Oscars, but And I'm curious what you think in terms of like box offffice and Oscar stuff for this movie because So I just Googled box office I just Googled disclosure day tracking because those guys always get it right. Yeah sixty five million worldwide. Worldwide. Yes. I'll go over that. Okay. And in America, I won't go over that. thirty five million and it's North American st. I'll go over that. I would guess it's forty one, forty two That would be nice. that would be a good alcocol. Yeah. for the movie They've people think can go to fifty I would love that. Yeah. I think I think the revs are going to be mixed. I think a B cinema score is in play because I think some people will feel that some of the stuff is goofy, Some of the people will feel like it's maybe not satisfying that we're not getting like some sort of alien confrontation. Right, which isn't the sort of thing you expect. Mental explanation. You know, there's a lot of what's going on with the Margaret and Daniel characters is never, never explained at all, and that may be frustrating. I think more specifically The way to think about the movie is this is a moie about us. It's not a movie about It's on a movie about Aliens. Yeah. It's a movie about humanity and Again, that is a very kind of aged perspective, you know, looking internally the in the latter stages of your life. Well, all, you know, close encounters, ET, all the other movies, you know, end on a looking outward What's the, you know, hope and wonder and what is possibility And this is Emily Blunt looking down a barrel at you. and it is very much about what's here. So absolutely right. Aards. been well reviewed, not ecstatically reviewed, but very well reviewed. And I think if you're like one of the Spielberg Allegance Yeah're going to give this movie a good review because you've beenent spending a lot of time thinking about the source texts, what it is he's responding to. And we love this one. An older filmmaker is like, I'm re engaging with all the stuff that made me a legend in the first place. I mean, I think back to at the DGAs where every single person who was on stage somehow managed to reference and like say hello to Steven Spielberg and what Spiberg meant to them. And many of them just saying like, I can't believe I'm on stage in front of Steven Spielberg. So it's not news to anyone who listened to this podcast, but he is God dear so and loved in the industry. So that helps. like We're not the only people starting the Emily Blund campaign, but I will start it right now here today. She will be not And I would love to see her win, you know, it's early in performances like this that are funny and genre don't normally win at leastast an actress. And I think she's actress. she's not supporting no matter what the marketing will try to if they can they could fagle supporting, then if it shad where that's a category where she can win, they might do that. I mean, and I salute it because I don't believe in honorary Oscars and I don't believe in category fraud. Okaykay? Just like go get the competitive win. But she deserves it. She's amazing. She is really terrific. I think there's It really depends on how the second half the year shakes out. It's always hard to make predictions like this. But you know, I said it with Cinners last year. after the first week I was like, M's going to get ten Oscar nominations, No question. feeles like five is in the offing for this movie for sure because you do have These legendary below the line people. That's right who've done great work. You know, for like Paul Taswell, this is not the showiest costume in, But he came through with that blazer when he needed to did. Appreciated O'Connor, This is not his Tom Hanks moment. you know, It's not a bad performance by any means, but I think some of it is a function of the character and some of it is a function of, I think the way that his engagements with Eve Hston's character are written where that's some of the weakest stuff in the movie to me. And I wasn't as with the movie when they're having fights about like, you didn't tell me you were a noviciate. she's like, you didn't tell me that you were You know, you did this for Ward X like they're There's a little bit of like ragggedy David Kepp screenwiting and stuff going. He also gets Pretty amazing O off scing with Colin first that we that we didn't mention psyic link. Yeah, which is very cool. but He his character is being used to set up everybody else and everything else. you first you're obviously Yeah. Long time fan. Remember when Dim Simons described said on this podcast, possibly in this very chair, I saw the man from King's Beech at the Clareermont Lounge. Yes . Sure, good use of him. He'ing He's playing in old school Spielbergville.. And, you know, I thought Cleman Domingo was well cast and as the like the warmth then the like we need you to come to this safe place. Yeah. as close as you can or to. Yeah, neither of those characters make any real sense, but I agree. But I like those actors. I agree. In the same way the close encounters any to your kind of fantasas, you kind of have to get on board with the kind of fantasia quality of this movie. If you want to read it literally, even though at times it's asking you to read it literally. Yeah. But if you if you if you read it literally, I think you will come away more frustrated then amazed or awed by what is possible with it Fascinated see how it works out Fascinated to see what people think make of it Um, And I agree with you. I look forward to seeing it again. I would haveked to have seen it a second time before this, but you're right that It's idiosyncrasies are what allowed me to very comfortably sit down two weeks after seeing it and be like, this, this, this, this, this, this And also I've just been thinking about it. R. And I've been thinking about specific parts of it. I've been trying to parcel out what I think It thinks it's mean, it means, what does it mean to me? What does it mean to Spielberg? Like I have been wrestling with it in a good way. notot because I didn't have a great time. Like I had just a thrill ride of a time and then I keep thinking about it, which to me is O only Spielber can do Yeah, it's usually what you want. U That's it. I think next week, we'll talk more about Spielberg. I'll probably try to see this a second time. Yeah I got to figure that out.m I looked at my The Spielberg films I've watched since I joined Letterboxed Okay There's only nine I haven't seen a second time. or a third time or an eighth time or twelfth time Um, Since twenty twenty And most of them are at the bottom of my list Okay. the BFG Yeah War horse Tinton, movies that I'm not a huge fan of I want to try to knock out as many of them this weekend as I can. Okay. Okay, here's me you and Joanna. Yeah We did our full ranking some years ago. also did top Fives. Yes. I don't remember anything I don't remember what and these things changed, right? They're living documents Yeah, should we be individually doing top tenens Should we be shouldh we be creating some sort of new system? to examine his career. I don't want to be about Rushmore because then we have to fight about Teddy Roosevelt. and I just I don't know. I know a lot more about Eisenhower after seeing pressure, so maybe we could break that into this discussion You had a temper So I've heard sureure. We gotta figure out I I know that things would change dramatically. I So for this podcast After seeing thisclosure day, I rewatched close encounters I didn't need to watch ET because I' memorized AI, minority report And the post. Interesting Haven't revisited the post I I found that my experiences on some of those chang dramatically or I you know, had a response to them that I didn't remember. And someome were exactly the same. So it would be fun to revisit to see kind of how things have changed. Last thought on this West Side Story Fabelman's Disclosure Day Would like to see how many filmmakers in their seventies have a trio that good. It's going to be a short l It's be a short list because all three of those films feel monumental what he's trying to communicate as a filmaker And they're getting like more of those. I just, you know, impul. They're just so inrequent you know, it's like Copol has made one movie. Scorsese is I. I mean, I just Googled Scorsese because what you've got silence, Irishman And then it was the Fire mooon. Yeah. I don't know if I'd actually said this to you, but this is kind of his killers of the Fower moon I comple I totally agree. it's like what am What I really? Yes, it's the end like it's the end of Kt listen, Steven Spielberg seems very healthy and kept up with you and put up with your bullshit. So I like mad respect to him, I'm not trying to do anything. What is just He's made a lot of movies. It's the back nine. Let's also not forget. I'm also on my back nine, so it's fine. simply just not try. I think you'll get I think you've got I'll make it to ninety energy Yeah, and just absolutely torment my sons's Well hopefully they'll be there for you. know I love you. Imagine imagine me at eighty five. I won't have to. I'll be dead I um It's not a mistake that in the year that Steven Spielberg officially moved to New York City, as he told us on january first, twenty twenty six, New York Knicks were up three one in the finals. So hopefully by the time we come this is't a time capsule We'll see. Okay. We got a big game on Saturday. Yeah. Hey, thank you to Jack Sanders back from Europe. We're here to produce our episode, the producer of the show. Thanks to Lucas Kavanaugh for his production support. Thanks to Sarah and Jamie for holding us down over those episodes while Jack was gone. Next week, we're going to do something with our Spielberg favorites. I don't know what it is yet, but we'll do something interesting. and we'll look back on what's transpired with Disclosure Day in the worldld over the weekend And possibly a next update. yeah I'll protect my heart, but remain positive. I'll see you next week