Final Rankings and Conclusion

F. I'manda Dob. and This this is the The big Picture Conversation showhow about Mel Brooks. On today's episode, we are celebrating Mel Brooks, who turns one hundred years young this month. Brooks is one of the signature voices in American movie comedy, and we can feel his influence all the way to the top of the box office today with scary movie. We will talk about Brooks, his great works, his influence with Yasi Soalk and Adam Namman But first, let's talk about some movie news and scary movie right after this. Your summer weekends fill up fast, but Crocx has your back. Road trips, beach days, last minute getaways, whatever's on the agenda, swing by your local store and find your new goat too Try it, style it, make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up, it shows off. Wock out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest crox store today This episode is brought to you by Street Easy. You gota ask yourself, Wan to talk about the time you lived in the greatest city on Earth or still live in it In the city where a matinee leads to two AM tacos Your New York era can last a lifetime. With twenty years of MYC know how, Street Easy can help you become a forever New Yorker. Visit streeteasy d. com to buy or rent in NYC. Street Easy is an assumed name of Zillow Inc, which has licenses in all fifty states Okay, Dobbins. This is like five weekends in a row. I'm like, haveave you seen the box office? is on top of an episode? Can I just can I have the privilege of doing what so many people who listen to this podcast want to do, which is respond in real time to the last episode, which was you and Griffin Newman. Yeah. Talking about He Man. And I gotta be honest, I'm still working my way through the He Man portion of it Also just so you both know, if you listen to the podcast and don't watch it U Then all of the banter about the Hean sword, which is not named, starts to get like a little suggestive. J wasust out the sword of power. The sword of power, sure, but you were holding things up and measuring things. and there were no proper nouns. I was hanging out with my boy. And it was a little strange. That's okay. I mean it through. You guys were very excited about the box office. It's very cute Twen who just loveved the box office and it was like trying to understand like tch your fingers so. So I recommend people listen to that. We were kind of born to have that conversation. Yes. And I am not as excited as Griffin about it, but I'm excited. People are going to the movies. Yeah. fourour movies this weekend over twenty five million dollars. This just kind of feels like when we first started the show what things were like where you were just like That is just how it is Yeah. movies are just successful. You know they're may not as successful as they were in nineteen seventy five, but they're really a huge part of American culture. And I went to the movie theater again on Friday to go see a sccary movie in midd all the day. M mine was not packed in the middle of the day, but that's okay. There were people there, which is unusual, and none of them were really laughing, but that's okay. We'll get to that in a minute. No,. I feel like parents at preschool and just the conversations that I'm having in the wild, people are like, hey, what do you think about this movie? What you know, what's up with obsession? Should I see back rooms? Like well, you know, it does seem back in the center of conversation just in time for like a new Game of Thrones show to start again. But whatever, I'm enjoying it. Yeah, I don't think that this is going debate though. you know, what we can't guarantee is somethingomething like the amazing digital circus, a YouTube born animated series that had a film adaptation, kind of continuation of its story, making twelve million dollars to the box office. like that's something like iron lung, to some extent, like backrooms, that's the new thing, right? R. And those things are much harder to predict and navigate. But what we know is coming You know, Toy Story five. Yeah. Supergirl Minions and Monsters, Spider Memember Brand new D, Evil Dead movie, Moana Live action, like I don't think any of those mov are gonna bom someome of them might not be as big as we think they're going to We might not enjoy all of them. No, definitely not. This is very rarely a qualitative conversation. But a lot of this stuff is just going to be big. and so now we're looking at like Maybe three straight months of for backness. Feels good. I mean, it is summer, you know, And I do think on some level, we go through this every year and I would say you have an emotional breakdown somewhere late March, early April, whether it's over quality or quantity the record show this did not happen in twenty twenty five Was that because of the movies that were released or because of trained my soul and healing. I trained my soul. Just the rhythm of the show and the rhythm of movies and the never ending awward season, like please, please move the Oscars early or we know you're not going to. But That, you know, there there's a a lull And then summer and blockbusters and schools out and people get excited. This year though feels really supercharged. And so much of that is because of obsession in backrooms. And really obsession, which I just is still It didn't go up this week, but it pretty much went down ninety nine percent. It pretty much held It's crazy. It's just crazy. I was I interviewed Ari Aster at a screening Predatory yesterday. guys were wearing not matching jackets, but coordinated jackets and that was very cy. He was wearing a jacket that I own. And I'm so glad I didn't wear that jacket. Y, because you've gone into chorecoat in a variety of colors and Aria is also bringing that for spring of summer. It a transraditional season. Chorecoat man as well Ari, you know, the best, I love Ari. But and we had a great time and seemed like people loved seeing Hreditary. but You know, Hreditary, as I mentioned last week, is one of those movies that I think kind of kicked this off. And I tried to kind of give him credit for it and get him to talk about it. and, you know, he wouldn't claim credit for something like that. But this has been a ten years in the making thing and obsession is just a crowd pleaser. I'll tell you, I heard from a couple of very prominent film figures over the weekend too who were like is real. this is the start of something really meaningful in the business, which I thought was interesting. I've been trying to Like resist overstating the importance of these movies. When they say this, let's let's specify one of them specifically compared to Bonnie Clyd. No, no to Ey Rider and said that this is easy Rider. Which is though, Obsession and backgom together or obsession. Obsession. Okay. greatreat. whichich beautiful. I won't try to represent that opinion too strongly because it's someone else's opinion, but that is the kind of thing that is being kicked in my direction I think one of the things that's really interesting about Eyrider because I thought about this as I was writing about this stuff a couple of weeks ago is that that movie applies a kind of looseness to something that was preree existing. that there were a lot of biker movies that came in the fifties and sixties before that and that being explicit about drugs and drug use and drug selling in that movie and that kind of like you're their feeling of Ey Rider that almost has like a documentary quality to it is one of the reasons why it became so successful. It became like a hang. Right And obsession is not like that. Like it's not it can't be compared in that way. It's much more of like a spring loaded like thrill ride Yeah It's a very satisfying, exciting, fun movie to go see with a group of people or on a date. But you and Griffin were talking about that there is something and it's not like on polished, but something You know like before us by us to the nature of the way obsession is made because it was made on a small budget by like young people But it didn't feel like studios and grownups were medling. It's true. And I do think that is having That is what's hitting and that resonated with me. Yeah. I mean, it still doesn't explain why people why the box office is going up week after week. It's really We may never see this again. Yeah. L it is so rare and we cited the statistics last week on the show. I mean this just doesn't happen. And so it's really exciting. It does feel to me like obsession is going to end up outgrossing backrooms despite backrooms opening at eighty million dollars, whichich is fascinating. In that movie, now that the general public is getting their arms around it, they're not as into it. You know, they don't like it as much as obsession I mean, that was my experience as well. but you know I think backrooms what we saw that, like the pre sales tremendous opening weekend, there is like a very, very robust fan base. and that follows what is IP? It's a different type of IP but's what backroom is. And so they will show up. And it's the same as, you know, Iron Lung and the circus thing There's a built in an audience. You tell them to go somewhere else, they go somewhere else. and they like really did with back rooms. But obsession just is a fun time at the movies and not just for people who are already familiar with Curry Barker's work or you know, hang out in like the YouTube comedy section. It's still amazing it amazing to me that that level of word of mouth is inspiring this much money. And you know, the profit margins or whatever. I mean, I'm not seeing any of the money, so I don't know why I care. but it is it was can be the most lucrative movie ever made. I mean, it's it's a little hard to know it with inflation and certain films that were made very cheaply that made certain amounts ofoney but it's in that conversation for the most profitable mainstream movie of all time. And that's just astonishing And you know, the other thing that is happening is masters of the universe ly quoteote underper performed relative to it being IP and the size of its budget and the scale of that movie. It made about thirty million dollars, which isn't horrible, but it means that it's going to be a bomb for sure Yeah But Scary Movie made fifty five million dollars. And this was thought to be dead IP. This was thought to be something that we hadn't seen a version of in over ten years And this new version of the film which reunites The vast majority of the original cast and you know, all the Wayan's brothers are back and Anna Ferris is back and Regina Hall is back. Um You know, I thought the movie was absolutely terrible. like Yeah really just tremendously unfunny. And you said your seemed like your audience was not really into it. and mine wasn't really that into it either. But still, it opened so big. I mean this and maybe some of that is that the you know, the presence of u movie going having a boom contributed even further to it, but it was tracking well you know, months ago because there's such an awareness of this and because horror has been So ready for a Melbrooksian kind of lookook again. I mean, the amount of things that have happened from get out to u to Meghgan to the Halloween reboot. to smile to long legs, all of which get a look in the scary movie movies. And yet, I feel like the thing about Scary moovie That was really never funny and remains to be Consistently not funny is one, the original scream is very funny. And that's part of the appeal of Sream is that it is an active send upp of horror movies And two, just recreating scenes from scary movies and making them a little silly and not scary It's not funny But people do like. I agree. But it's almost like it's come back around It's not funny but it's extremely marketable. And it is they've It's taking IP to its you know, illogical conclusion and then turning it back on itself. And so if you just want to go see like Marlin Wayans doing you know, multiple scenes from sinners, which they have used in the trailer, but at this point It doesn't want to matter whether the movie's funny because they can put out a trailer with all of the references that, you know looks like an S andL skit. And people are like, oh, I know what that is. I recognize it. I guess like I'll go see it. I think you nailed it. It's so strange because part of why I think Scary moovie resonated you know way back when the original came around was because the Wans brothers were younger than Wes Craven who made sccream. and that was a a master kind of dissecting or satirizing a lot of the things that made him successful and that he rode the wave of and a you know, the eighty slashers that that pumped the genre up And the Waynees brothers were like, they were the young guys. They were like bending a lot of the expectations, especially in sccary movie two and three. And Now the Kin and Iy Ways, co wrote the movie sixty eight years old. I mean, Marlin Wayne is fifty three. Like it's easy to forget because he's still so usethful and still such a fun actor. These are the old guys now. These are the veterans. So there's something weird about them like taking shots at Smile and Meghgan and long legs and everything ever all at once and K pop demon hunters and movies made by younger people, you know, that represent they are like they are contemporary culture and this movie isn't And yet I think that marketability that you talked about was very powerful. wasas there anything about I liked? Well, I was gonna say the one the live stream Yeah, That was funny. I did genuinely laugh at that Possibly because that's like not a world as you know, I'm familiar with the references, but I don't spend any time on live streams again, I'm forty one. and I'm grown up And so it J you mean live streamed after the Academy Awards. Sure That's true. But there's something once the comments section is running in on the side and they're just, you know doing the sponsorships, we weren't actually doing any sponsorships. I'm available, Kampari, but like we aren't actually doing them built in. So it made me laugh. But otherwise, no, listen Whatever Anna Ferris wants to do. I wish she were doing more than this. But I love her forever. This isn't I'm borrowing this thought from somebody else. I forggetot who mentioned it, but wouldn't it be cool to see a movie with Anna Ferris and Regina Hall that was not a scary movie? Yes You know what a regular comedy or a drama or something else. She doesn't need to do a drama. Anna Feris is very funny What about her costume drama? Let her do something actually funny. Sense and sensibility too. Okay. we're getting that and I have a lot of feelings. and we just fit moment. Yeah. It's gonna be we' going from Amanda Sring to Amanda Fall. You know, you'reking about the box office in these twovies, but let'est we forget Devilars' Prda I is a fucking a huge movie. It's like one hundred fifty million dollars movie now, which is wild. pllus Project Taail Mary, which also is a massive movie this year. So there've already been a bunch of things along this way. Yeah. And you know, I think a bunch of those movies I mentioned this summer are going to continue to be big. Did you get your Odyssey seventy millimeter IiMax AMC tickets? I did. I bought two. you wanted to join me. Oh, that's so nice Well, I was making a joke about the whole ticketing system. and then did you wait in line? What did you do while you were in the queue? Did it take longer or I'm sure should. W it longer shorter than the line to get tickets to the Canfld Festival? Definitely longer. Yeah, which is insane I As you know, I have very mixed to negative feelings about that whole thing. Right that's But I did it just because like I like to have a second viewing of a big movie like that, especially with a crowd on opening weekend. Also just in case we don't get a chance to see the movie before. We record. I want to make sure we have something that we can go see as a backstop. Um I think this is Did you get the tickets you wanted? Did you get aisle seats at a I forget I don't remember Do you know which screen you chose I think I had to choose Burbank because other things were sold out. Okay. I prefer that I understand. Yeah I Thanks for getting me a tickets. I don't you'relcome. don't I don't want Tailor this to turn into Tailor Swift tickets Like Iah. movies are a democratic art form. L they absolutely have to be to make sense. They should not be boxing people out. Like we're watching this with the Nambia Finals right now. You know're like New Yorkers can't get tickets to New York Nicks and the MBA Fals for the first time in twenty seven years and that's not good Um obviously going to a baskball game is more a privilege than going to a movie theater around the corner Some of it is like there's not enough projectionists And enough equipment to account for enough seventy millimeter projection. This is the other side of evventizing stuff. and it's worked and they have eventized like, you know, the format nerds And I'm happy for all of you. But it's alienating regular people to want to walk up and just buy tickets on opening night. and then you're like, well, I guess I can't go see the Odyssey until next week. P people can't just go see moies the middle of the day. Like in L.A everybody can because actors and writers and they work these itinerant jobs. So people are seeing movies in the middle of the day all the time here In many places, that's not true. And what I don't, it's fine now, but it could get to a place where it's not good where it feels like you're more, it becomes a hobbyist thing and isn't really a mainstream thing. And I'm just not in support of that. Just just I agree with you. That's my take. It's just on your own time with your with your plastic Well, that's our ar. Yeah, exactly Yeah. But that's up to me. That's good, you know. I'm a man of free will. I agree. I think we're making the perfect the enemy of the good on this stuff. But you know, I hope everyone gets a chance to see it in the best setting possible for them. Um Did you enjoy prepping for Melbrooks It was a lot of fun. Yeah Um I mean, a great relief after some of the other journeys that we've been on, where any of the movies you put on, even if it's not your favorite, you're just like, well, I'm not really mad to be watching this right now. That's true. And I don't feel bad about myself or the world There's something so wonderful about just eleven movies too. Yeah. So many of these exercises that we end up doing are like, no you have to watch eighty three films. And most of these movies I've seen many, many times. So let's now go to our conversation with Yasi Soalk and Adam Naman about Melbrooks Okay, now we have two guests with us, Yasi Soalk and Adam Naman two, Mel Brooks Fans, admirers, allegiance, fair to say Adam We'll start with you, like Before I give the biographical snapshot of the man who turns one hundred later this month, like, What's your relationship to Mel There's this scene in sppaceballs where they open up the shelf and you see all the Mel Brooks VHS is on the shelf in the spaceball one And that was like our home VHS shelf. you know, We had all the Melbrooks Mvies that kind of came standard issue in our house. And I watched them all over and over and over and over again. They're very formative. I imagine there's a lot of people my age or a little older for whom that's true. muchuch less true for student age people now when I show Mel Brooks in class, they look at the clips in me like we are from another which I w want to talk about later for sure. I made a lot of notes about how do young people feel about Mil Brooks today. Yaspoiler is it not good? Yeah. Yeah. ye. Well, we can get there. Yasi, what about you? When did you dig in? what was your relationship? I mean, it's very funny not to plug my own podcast Bands planan if you guys are looking for some music content. But much like Madonna, which I just did a big series on, I don't remember a time pre knowing Melbrooks because my parents big fans and like I would watch blazing saddles with my dad I' like five or six years old, spaceballs. I've said it multiple times saw it. multiple times before I ever saw Star Wars. I saw Star Wars one single time when I was eighteen. Yeah, huge relationship. This was just like my parents' comedy. My parents watched Get Smart in Iran. and like They were just this is like their kind of comedy. So yeah, I really grew up on all these Melbrooks movies and I didn't realize how much they've like formed not just like my sense of humor, but like weird toourettes things that I say in my mind Like, o Itould be worse, could be raining. say that all the time. Yeah. I kind of forgot where it came from,. Yeah, he's an alexiconographer. can like imports things. whatever for you We don't' not talk about Mel very much over the years of the show. I wonder if my parents have seen a single Mel Brooks film. It's like complete opposite. I was raised in a sad household where we did not have this on BHS, just Apollo thirteen U Wait But I relate to what Yasi said about it, u justust like the Melbrook sense of humor and point of reference and really how you engage with the things that you love, specifically movies seems to have always existed in my mind and certainly shaped what I think is funny and how I understand things to be funny. But there's not a single moment where anyone sat down and was like, okay, here's spaceballs. I remember I was culturally aware enough to remember like the Robin Hood Men and Tights moment. And, you know, at that point, he was obviously incredibly successful, had a lot of U Hits was a household name and Robin Hood also kind of, you know, I knew what that was I think I probably saw them in snippets over time before, you know, I finally got my own blockbuster card and was like, okay Let's check this out. And so probably did like a second education as like a, you know, film history trying to catch up on what my parents did not teach me. Yeah, I feel like I split the difference between both of you guys where some of the movies were a huge part of my childhood and were present all the time, but not all of the movies. So for whatever reason, Young Frankenstein spaceballs. and blazing saddles. were very present from like five to twelve. And then on my eleventh birthday, me and friends went to go see Robin Hood Menentites. That was a very memorable movie going experience And I loved that movie And but I didn't I didn't do the thing that I did with so many directors that I started to fall in love with around that time in my life and go back and look for life stinks on VHS or follow up on highxety. CD birthday party and we gott to sing not was It was not not. I've still never had a coed birthday party actually. Oh, I got a name and last. That's rare. Wow, I'm proud of that one. I don't want to be reductive, but Adam, are you Jewish It wouldn't hurt. That's That's that is that is a hovering piece of context where not just I think Mel Brooks his humor, but his conception of his own Hor Yeahight. I mean, again, you don't have to be Jewish like Mel Brooks movies, but like my dad is Jewish and I grew up in with a Jewish family. and I think it's like maybe a little more present in Jairs house. It She's talked about that. He's talked about that rye bread commercial, where it's like, you don't have to be Jewish to enjoy it it wouldn't hurt. And his conception, I think, of like what is Jewish, It's very kind of like pop cultural Judaism or a very kind of like twentieth century American Borshbelt idea of Judaism to be clear, but like it's pretty important to the movies, you know? It is, but I think because so much of what he achieved happened before we were born or before we were really engaged, The way that Jewish identity informs American comedy makes it just comedy. And so know I'm not Jewish, but I am from Long Island. I would say roughly fifty percent of my best friends growing up were Jewish. I was very proximate to the Jewish experience. I have Jewish friends. I did But I did, and I do And so this also for characters to openly be making Um Jewish references in the comedy. And I was just watching highigh anxiety this morning, and there are several of them even in that movie whichich is coming from, you know, it's a parody of a British filmmaker who often worked with waspy American stars, and yet he's infusing a movie like that full of all these Jewish references. But I think because Mel Brooks becomes like I think fair to say the dominant American comedic voice of the second half of the twentieth century? it is that wrong? I feel like it probably is The dominant voice that then gets echoed by a lot of other voices like whether they're copying him or they're you know, reactoing him or counterpointing him. Pretty important. And mean I'm sure we'll talk about it with our scrupulously researched chat But these movies were huge hits commercially L they weren't just kind of hits for comedies. I mean, Blazing Saddles, young Frankenstein, these roomies that finished in the top like three or four in the box office in the years that they were released. I mean that's pretty significant. He's kind of untouchable in that regard Yeah, I do feel like that middle period is the thing that often goes a little overlooked, and we'll talk about it here in this conversation. but just put a little context around it. So you know, Mel is from Brooklyn. He's born june twenty eighth, nineteen twenty six. I hope we're not cursing anything by recording this episode a little bit early to celebrate the centenary You know, he There's a terrific documentary, a very long documentary about his life on HBO Max right now that Jud Appateu co directed that celebrates his work and kind of charts his life through New York, joining the service, eventually coming back and becoming a part of the TV revolution and working for Sid Caesar, and then eventually, as you said, Get smmart and forming this brilliant comedy partnership with Carl Reiner. and all of this happens in the fifties and sixties before he becomes a voice in movies. And in fact, one of the things that the documentary does really well, I think is show you how sort of not assured any of this was that like it's kind of a miracle that he became this tootemic figure that Adam is talking about And I thought it'd be helpful to kind of try to figure out what it is that he does that is so special that I only really can comp to Mad magazine, which is also something I really liked as like a ten, eleven, twelve year old. The way I brought my Mad magazine collection to collollection dayay in the fifth grade. Really I was like, y'all bitches can't fucking touch me right now. Okay, I have a hundred Mad magazines. Mad magazine I was not allowed to subscribe to, but they did have it the library. And so I could look at it behind plastic coating in the library. And I would I spend a lot of time in the library as a pre teen. I'm probablyably not surprised. a lot of people hear that And I would just look at old Mad magazines for hours and hours. And it had the similar effect of this where On the one hand, I find that his comedy is parroting something that you know exists and you're laughing because you have a relationship to it. But then also to your spaceball's point, it's like a portal to something you don't know about and you're too young to experience. So it almost informs you as to what you're going to be getting when you get older in a way that I found really intoxicating as a young person I don't know what what do you think his comedy is about I mean I think obviously it's satire, right? But I also, you know I couldn't help but think now looking back, I didn't get it when I was a kid, but like how much it's about being other you know, And it's not just the Jewish other. it's so much about like race and class and like brilliance of being able to like weave that into your like kind of dumb Edgelordy, honestly, original Edgelord Melbrooks. Comedy is Incredible at that time I agree. What do you think? Yeah. I mean So much of satire and parody relies on like a deep knowledge and understanding and love or at least real fixation on the material itself and So you know, to that point of when you're watching it as a young child and you're kind of learning about the structure of these movies and learning about the adult world through the parody, it's because you have to understand it. like really be a nerd about these things in order to send them up in the way that he does. So I kind of received all of these as culture, you know, a cultural u Omnivore and someone who really consumes things and wants to like chew it up and make other things of it in the same way that I do or that my my favorite filmmakers do. And you know, to Adam's point that many people since then, many people, we also liion eize on this podcast are like, okay, so what if I take everything that I love And mix it all together and then add in my own sense of humor. So I think what's so amazing about Melt Brooks is also how pop he managed to make all of it you know, and that as you said, these were huge in the seventies and they are also like a deconstruction of you know, cinematic tropes over the course of fifty to seventy years. like it it's quite nerdy. Yeah. The metaphor I always think of is what if you took a piece of paper and ripped it up into fifty pieces and then tried to put it back together again.? That's kind of what the Melbrooks movies feel like, where it's like there's a puzzle component to it. It feels a little jagged around the edges. You're never going to get it exactly right. and's you know, obscurity in the reforming, like there's something fun and funny about it. What do you think about his comedy in general Adam Yeah, like the two things two distinctions that I think are fun with him. like one is that Unlike Mad magazine, who he's a lot like You know, like a lot of the times these movies feel like Mad magazine panels, but they're three dimensional and flesh and blood and all that. and even the kind of yiddishy humor between the two and like, you know, Mad magazine had all kinds of you know, old yiddish names and sounds like you're clearing your throat. likeike that's a lot of their comedy But Mad was countercultural and pushed against authority. And I always thought Brooks's movies kind of wanted to buy in. L there was a lot more love than there was kind of like anti establishment pushback. L he wasn't making fun of a consumer culture Pax American or anything like that. It was very again Jewish show businessiz, which is like, I want to be partart of it and poke a kind of gentle fun at it But also he's in a juncture in film history where he's obliged to do that Like the Markxs Bothers and Abben Costello, all these comans, they did make fun of Hollywood in real time. No one should think that parody got invented in the seventies or God forbid later than that But some genres were just old enough that when he made fun of them in the late sixties, early seventies, it was really powerful because the nostalgia for things like the Western you know, which Blazing Saddles, among other things was like a revisionist Western. They were doing all kinds of those in the seventies in a kind of serious way. It did it in a funny way, but he had a long enough frame of reference by the sixties or seventies and enough time had passed that he could kind of get away with this, but it was also very reverent. No one could watch Young Frankenstein be like, oh, he hates these movies. That's where the newer ones get interesting with like spaceballs and and Prince of Thieves and the Dracula when we're like, Do he like these movies? or are these things that are kind of impinging a little bit on his territory? He doesn't seem to have the same aection for them. I can't wait to talk about this aspect of Spaceballs. It's why it's his most interesting movie. for me whether it's his best one, but'll we'll get there. Yeah. that's an interesting way of thinking about it too. I feel that even when I watch the newer ones and I think It's his own fault because what happened is after his movieies became such huge hits culture in serious filmmaking almost had to account for the fact A Mad magazine or a Mel Brooks might be coming for them And so they this kind of like arch tone or ironic tone that you find in a lot of contemporary mainstream like big tent movies, Marvel movies, action movies, the kind of the wink that has arrived. I think he's kind of instrumental into that. And so he becomes he doesn't be he's not He's not made u obsolete by that move, but it did make I think it made it harder for his stuff to hit in the nineties and especially, you know after that because and it's part of the reason why I think he pivots to Broadway which I haven't even mentioned, but you know he has this third act of like extraordinary success with the producers and transforming the producers into a musical. And he constantly has had to pivot away from his poor successes because it his successes. Everyone catches up. Yeah, ye. And so we have like Gohead But I was just going to say, one other distinction that's interesting it ties to what you're saying because I love what you said about how people feel obliged to build the archness or the comedy in because they don't want to be made fun of. The other thing about Brooks is he does not care if people take him seriously or think he's smart. Big difference between him and Woody Allen If I say his name three more times in the mirror, he'll pop up behind us and talk about the Kicks and all that. But like Woody Allen wants you to think he's smart. He literally is like, hereere's a Dustoevsky joke You know, I've read Kafka Those jokes in those Woody Allen movies not to derail the puckets, They're not that smart. They're just mentioning smart things and smarter filmmakers. He wants you to know he only watches Fellini and Berg. Nel Brooks is like, no, I watch Westerns and I watch hor movies, he's brilliant without acting like he's smart And that's really influential too. It's a distinction between him and Allen, who people used to compare all the time and who had totally different filmmaking careers in the relationship to Hollywood and success and awards. I mean, Mel Brooks won an Oscar before Allen did, but his movies weren't being nominated for Best Picture all the time, you know So I just think that that idea between smart and brilliant or smart and intellectual is also a good thing to think about that I wanted to think about with Brooks, which is like he really didn't care if people took him seriously to a point, I think. But he wanted to be liked And I think that's the distinction between him and Wood Allen, right? Wood Allen kind of had like a contemptuous posturing where like I relate to my King Melbrook so much as someone who also desperately loves and wants attention and all. that's the positioning towards Hollywood. And like it does come with a bit more honey, you know, than a little more prickliness than Woody Allen had. I think it's really well put We saw it even at Cinemacon this year at ninety nine years old Melbrooks made a video as a companion to the sppaceball sequel that's coming out next year And he still has that kind of desperate quality to be loved and remembered and celebrated. And if he's listening to this podcast, thank you, Mel. You know we appreciate you. you are loved. But Does Mel listen to podcasts? I don't know. seems pretty honest. Yeah he seems like he first as sharp as a tach. Yeah. it seems like he has his kind of his finger on the pulse. I mean, even back to the spaceballs The changing of his comedy, I think that was like a credit to him of like seeing how comedy was changing and allowing it to enter his space and like letting improv happen and stuff, which was like sorry to cut you off Amanda, but I think that was actually kind of cool. Whether or not it ended up continuing to work. It's like he wasn't like so brittle about like, it's my way or the highway. Right, right I just I mean, I hope Mel is spending his hundredth year, you know, doing doing other things. Reading Just I ask He wants to be entertained. He was listening to the Madonna Bands play in nineteen hours. He's a big fan. Yeah, there's something I'm trying to remember which review it was, but Polling Kle said something like He keeps grabbing you by the lapels and telling you to laugh, but it's the grabbing that's funny. Yeah like it's not so much that what he says is all that funny, but that enthusiasm to be likek, There's a like there is a neediness to it, but it's also very generous. And he certainly wasn't like judicious or skimpy with the jokes Right? I mean, he predates like the Zazz team and they took a lot from him just from that idea of and he took it from other people too, you know, Mark's brothers, but just joke density. L if this one's not funny, the next one of the next thirteen will be, you know, and that when it's done well is why people watch the movies over and over and over again. Thinking about him as a filmmaker, which is not a way he is discussed very frequently and I was thinking about what you were saying, Adam where I do feel like his first three movies are actually bit more socially minded. I don't think he's necessarily showing off per se, or trying to intellectualize aggressively. But because of maybe just the time that they're happening and it is this countercultural moment, they feel more like they are addressing something that is happening socially as opposed to I think more or less everything that happens after ' seventy three where they feel kind of iterative to genre or something that he really likes and like he just wanted to spend time making a silent movie in those movies. mayaybe don't have as much on their mind As a film director You know, he's kind of janky at times. Like there's a kind of crudity to the way that he makes movies. And even when he's like spend a lot of time on a hitchcocky and dissection, there's stuff in it where you're like, oh, wow, he paid really close attention to the blocking or the camera movement. And then there's other times where you're like, th the camera just sit in the middle of the room and like characters are walking in and out of frame and you know, there is like a a yeoman's quality to the movies that I think when you're a young kid Maybe makes them seem like it's happening in front of you, like it feels a little bit more simple I maybe hadn't thought about as much until I showed sppaceball to Alice yesterday, which is like kind of a mistake given the language. We did this again. and it was also but Knox was like very afraid of certain parts of it, which I thought interesting. It was fascinating because he's not afraid of the actual violence in real Star Wars movies. But I guess it felt more human and more approachable. Yeah Yeah. And to your point about, you know, it feeling when you're a kid that there's The line between, you know, it's a movie and you watching at home does feel alighted in his movies, which I think is part of what makes them funny. There is like we're all in this together. We're all in on the joke. There's even a little bit, you know to the warmth of these movies, even when they are, you know, biting or lewd or mean There is, as Adam said, it's more about love than anything else But yeah, it's definitely seemed to my four year old like way more real and thuss way more threatening to him. Yeah, there is a groundedness that like Star Wars does not feel like spaceballs even though it feels exactly like spaceballs. There's something uncanny about that Well, we talk about technique One of the first things he made, I don't know if we're gonna go film by film, but did you guys all recently, Seaan probably has because he just sits and does this stuff Do you watch the critic short No no no is short. Yeah.ot in the years. I haven't seen this in years. So it's like it it's actually one of the more counter culturally minded things where it's like an abstract itively like awward winning short animated film, and then the voice of an old guy on the soundtrack, which is Brooks be like, I don't get this. L what is this? What are these lines? What does this mean Tension is between, you know, like technique and abstraction and symbolism and then like the regular person who kind of doesn't get it And if you watch it, it has this wonderful quality of like it doesn't deny the fact that abstract art is good and enjoyable and that it might take a lot of talent to make, but like the regular moviegoer is kind of baffled by it and doesn't care. It's a wonderful balance because he's not putting it down. I think I don't want to get it wrong on aeror, but I think he won an Oscar for that or was nominated for it As a short And that's kind of like maybe a bit of a clue into how seriously he takes technique, which is like I could do it if I have to. Yeah. But there's something kind of slovenly where this stuff doesn't really obllige it, which is why I think the best made of his movies again, we're kind of jumping all over the place. But when you talk about the one that doesn't feel like people are just plunked down and walking in the room like Young Frankenstein is incredibly well known camera re placement and lenses and sound and sets. I mean, that's what people wrote about it at the time when you read reviews. L this is like a perfect formal par I don't feel that way about blazing saddles like being a Western and I certainly don't think silent movie is like a great parody of silent movies, but young Frankenin is amazingly well made and kind of explains why he wanted David Lynch to make the elephant man that way because I think Brooks does love black and white and he has a certain respect for like surrealism and abstraction and expressionism, even if it's not in his skillset to do it all the time, he clearly respects it You know Yeah. I mean those later mo but those later movies are horribly badly made. Yeah, like Dacula Den Lovving, which I have a lot of affection for is very cheaplyllly made. Yeah awful. That's the other strain of this conversation too is that he's not only like a very sophisticated artistic mind He's a huge part of film history because he produced several movies that are that are all time films. I mean, he had a hand in helping select filmmakers that we revere now and talk about as legends of the form at fairly early stages of their career and pushing them forward and also not making those choices about him. You know, not being front and center around the promotion of the movie or, you know, he actually is fearful sometimes of being a part of those productions because people thought they wouldn't take the film seriously, but he had this incredible knack for, you know, working with Kronenberg and working with Lynch. And you know, you mentioned Francis to me yesterday raaser in the Well, not formally listed as a producer. neither was he on an elephant. I, I know But you famously don't think women can be lead protagonists in films, so I understand You famously believe that And so I thought to. The anecdote in his autobiography about what he said to the studio executives about the elephant man Like he doesn't write it sentimentally, but it kind of makes me tear up when I think about it where they gave all these notes. And he was like, Okaykay yeah, we'll take your notes. And he wrote them a letter back and he's like, thanks for this. but like we don't take the opinions of savages. We're not touching a frame of this movie, you people are barbarians. like I'm paraphrasing it. He had the Schlepp to kind of do that. You don't think of David Lynch of as someone who needs to be protected, right Be on eraser headad, if anything he needed to be protected from himself because he made this insane movie the way he wanted to make it with no money. but I mean The alpha band's a pretty mainstream production and the fact that it's survived to whatever that final cut is like that, that is on Brooks and Lynch knew it which is why he took every opportunity at every award ceremony to talk about Brooks and that beautiful story. if you guys know it about the coat? Do you guys know that story that tellll it for us here when Lynch was in England to shoot, it was too cold and he didn't have a coat. So Milbrooks literally went and boughtom this coat and he directed every day. and then at Brooks' AFI retro Lynch still had the coat ' he kept it perfectly in this chest of drawers and he wass like,, you know, like, Mel Brooks kept me warm, you know, stuff like that. I mean, how can you not love Yes, he's gonna cry you know? I literally reed it so many times during the prep for this podcast. It's like, Well Elephant Man, the documentary, anytime I saw him on screen with Anne Bancroft, just. Yeah.'s he's like back to our early C, he's a very sentimental person and a sentimental artist, and I think you pick that up through his work and also the way he lived his life Yeah, and also like he's a singular performer and a singular writer director, and yet I think also defined by his great partnerships over the years. You know, his marriage to Anne Bancroft and they appeared together on screen Um his his I work with Gean Wilder, which is just my favorite thing, like in the history of movies, you know, Ge Wilder in the producers and Young Frankenstein, I don't think there is a funnier person who's ever been in a movie And You know, he does this like over and over again. He finds people, obviously Carl Reiner, who he builds like huge emotional connections to. incredible chemistry and reparte And It It's so interesting because I've been thinking a lot about him as a star as we've been preparing for this. And to me, his least successful movies are the ones where he is the star. And he even talks about this. It's kind of explored a little bit in the documentary this idea that because of that need to be loved and that sense of like living up to the moment and having this incredible ambition, you can feel him almost like overreaching beyond that. But when he trusts his instincts to lean on someone else He makes this amazing work. And there is like a little mini tragedy inside of that, you know, we're like, I'm watching Life Stinks, and I'm like, if this was a different accur moie, I have a contrarian view on this and I do not understand the Life Stinks Lander. In my home, Life Stinks was a masterpiece and I still re watched it. And I think people are unfairly harsh on it. I think it's a really good movie. I can't go that far with Yassi, but do And I agree with you broadly that the movies centered around him are not as strong as, you know, the producers or Young Frankenstein, you know or even Blazing Saddles, but at the same time, everyvery time he shows up in, you know, the twelve chairs or bllazing sadowles or anything, my But like I perk up in a way and there is something about his energy and, you know, almost like his cuddliness, which is such a weird thing to say about someone who is just making, you know, like a lot of dick jokes or related parts jokes throughout is so essential to I think, both his specific comedy, but also that only he can break. And so to me, the movies are singing the most when he is there on screen. I don't disagree with that at all. I think Spaceballs is a great example of that. I think it's more like when he when we're trained on him. I felt this way watching high anxiety thisorning I was like, ye, there's a a lot of time with Mel. Yeah. There's a lot of time with Mel's fixation on these kinds of thrillers and his own his own psyche and what he deems to be's like a lot of psychoanalysis. And once again, therapy does not make good movies, even comedies. But one reason that movie kind of fails is that Hitchcock was funny on purpose Yeah Yeah. So when you're parotodying them and when you're satirizing them, you're kind of just like emphasizing something that's already there And I also think that his affection for Hitchcock and respect they're almost too much for the movie to work. L you know, I would rather watch a Brian De Palma movie in terms of dealing with Hitchcock and high anxiety. It's like too close and too on the nose, and he's in it way too much. But and reviews pointed this out, you know when that movie's good is when he's just doing like a showbiz Bland he just sings a song. Yes When he just sings highigh anxiety for some reason. It's actually pretty good. Same with the Tokamatoc scene and u In history of the World Part one, where when he kind of just does like showbiz song and dance stuff, all the pretense kind of falls away. and again, he's such an entertainer Yeah Well, what should we do? should we talk about each movie? Okay, before we do that actually, I did want to mention, you mentioned Zucker Abram Zucker Tu obviously being one of somebody who made the documentary. L those are two very clear heirs. twoo people who very saw themselves in his work and then tried to create their own things in the aftermath of that You know, we talked about the scary movie. moovie at the top of this episode, that movie Wildly unsuccessful, though it may be very much operating at the same frame. One of the reasons why that franchise in general is kind of dumb is because it's doing what high anxiety did one time where it's just like has a lot of feelelty to the original material to the point of it not even being a joke Um But who else springs to mind that you think that he is correlated to or that like, I don't know, Adam, who' who are his greatest heirs Well, I mean, it's not just it's not a direct err, but it's an echo. and he did a, you know, he appeared on it, which kind of cinched the link. But I've always thought that that idea of him portal to other things is very similar to the Simpsons you know, that idea of there's a whole world and there's a whole universe of pop culture that kind of gets remade in the Simpsons image and there's a whole world that's kind of remade in Mel Brooks's image and those overlap a little bit And I love when he was on the Simpsons. He's Homer's driving around for some reason. He says, I saw that movie Young Frankenstein scared the hell out of me. You know, great It's a great's a great Simpsons line. But he even there kind of alludes to the two thousand year old man and his ick He just, I mean, always Simpsons guess voices are good, but he felt particularly game You know, that was like a particular game recognized game in terms of showing up on something that's kind of, you know, a red sensibility, but I think you mentioned some of the big ones and the Jad Appatau one for sure I think he's someone who has a lot of reverence for Brooks I feel like I see tendrils of him in so many things that are like just more specific. He loves sign comedy, which I love like I love the when you're rewarded for watching and there's just like a funny like signage and that's everywhere. That's in the Simpsons. That's in all of the Parks and Reck, you know and various franchises. That's in Widows Bay, which is on now. You really are rewarded. There's just a funny newspaper clipping. It's all over Melbrooks's stuff. likeike or like Even like, u, o my Godd, what's his name? The family guy. hc Farlane Seth McMarane., Melbroo's thing to like take things a little too far. like the partarting scene and Blazing saddles. That's all over Seth McFarlane's work, you know? L I think he has like certain flourishes that certain people just took and put into their work and they might not be like direct heirs, but his fingerprints are all over like so much of the comedy I've watched since I was a teenager I was thinking about, Seinfeld and Larry David too, and just that like that idea of the assimilation of the Jewish experience just into a social experience, a cultural experience, and like that tonality that those shows have is very, very similar to a lot of the Millbrook' sense of humor. I don't anything you can also use him to explain why other things aren't funny. Like prod like the producers is a good thing to use to explain why Jo Jo Rabbit sucks so much. you You could use things that Brooks has worked on to see people who've kind of learned those lessons wrong or who come at it from places that don't have whatever we want to say is good about Brooks, either the warmth or the affection or the wit or the or the innovation because I don't know, like, offt imitated, not duplicated is a cliche And it's not quite true of Brooks But his best work has aged well. And there's a lot of filmmakers, even non comic ones from the seventies where that's not ue And yet the paradox, which we'll get to later is I can't speak for all Gen Z people, but I do teach at U ofT. and I use Brooks clips, not to teach about Mel Brooks, but I use them for like my film economics class, like the producers and sppaceballs because I think they're so lucid as parodies of the industry and they go over like crickets. And I'm like, do you guys find this funny at all? They're like, No, it's interesting. It's not funny. Why is that specifically? And I feel that that's he's not a very sexy contemporary figure of inspiration for comedy or really for all that much. And I think some people are surprised when they go back and especially look at the first three or four movies Iss a real like artistry in those first few movies that I think surprises people, but maybe it's not funny enough. You know you know those kids reaction videos, like kids react to Nirvana or kids I want like kids react to zero Mustelle. L like what kids react to zero Mustelle the in the I must I must say that's the one that goes over the most like a lead balloon because just the acting style is so manic. and crazed and unsubtle. And maybe even that doesn't go over so well because it's a movie technically, I mean, not technically it's about Broadway rather than about Hollywood But even the Star Wars stuff, I'm like he's making fun of marketing within his own movie, like the closing gap of VHS windows and Star Wars being all about merchandising. mean, maybe it just hits too close to home and they're like, that's not funny, or I don't I resent the implication of that being funny. But it's very funny. You think it still plays or not? I feel like I mean, I don't know. I've not sat with a Gen Z person and watched Blazing Saddles, but I wonder if that would hit a little harder for them I don't know. in a good or bad way though, because it's so Well yeah, it depends it depends how they feel about certain things. we take. Yeah. I was thinking about this when you were watching the movies. At the very beginning of the producers, when Zera Mostell and Gene Wild are having that first conversation and he flashes the water in his face and he's like, I'm wet. I'm wet. and then he gets slapped and he's like, I'm in pain That's like such a primal gut busting. like I didn't see that movie when I was six either. you know, I saw it maybe as was a teenager. Yeah. And so I don't know if I'm like I'm not hanging on noststalgia it.ike I actually think it's very funny and feels transferable to the future but I could see I don't know, something like silent moovie just not making any sense to a contemporary audience. L there maybe being some ability to focus on that story and maybe not understanding the reference points of like, what does it mean to get Burt Reynolds and Jam Khn Silent movie be impossible for. You you can't look at the screen long enough to know what's going on. I could barely at the screen long.'. pacing and just kind of The way that you interact with a movie is so very very different. I'm surprised to hear that like some of the actual jokes just don't transfer to younger kids They might just be so bored by the other two and a half hours of the class that there's I wonder I'm having like a reality Bes moment where I'm like someone needs to define irony for me right now, but like Are we just so irony pilled? Are the newer generations like what's funny is irony always? Like that's like the standard of humor. And like it's not super ironic tone of it I think it's broad and there might be animoning to the broadness. I do think that there is a real broadness to most contemporary comedy too It's it's shorter. Well, I was gonna to say when you were describbe like the manic style is too much for young people as if like everyone on YouTube is not absolutely just manic yelling like all directly. And it's obviously slightly different, but it's not an energy or even, you know Um Like a satire type thing, like people are yelling at the screen all of the time The twenty year olds, you know, and they mean it. I think it's because it's not very young. Many of the heroes of his films feel like middle aged people. don It doesn't feel like youthful in like forty five his entire career. He looks amazing for ninety nine, but he looked forty five when he was twenty five Yeah I don't know, That's an interesting oervation. I mean I literally put that in the notes. I was sort like, are these movies aging well? and I don't mean that in terms of like the political correctness or anything like that, but more like do they have the same level of Kerry energy and celebration that's something like You know, like, we just did two thousand one with u with Spielberg on on the reatchables. And that is a movie that out here, if you run that movie on seventy Millimeter in a movie theater, it will sell out. L it has a kind of like film school quality to it that like I don't think Blazing Saddles does. And if you put blazing Saddles on seventy millimeter, I'm not sure if it would sell out at least not as fast in the same way. Does that make sense, Adam Yeahel I can't remember the last time Mel Brooks played in Rpertory in Toronto, whereas they play two thousand one, you know they play two thousand one all the time I'm thinking of including blazing saddles and of course I'm doing this fall on Satire. I really am, like not just saying it because we're on the pod because The intersection in that movie, you know, like Jewish humor and black characters and reevaluating the Western. I mean at the time, that was such a conversation piece. And I don't know how you would talk about it now, the question of like are those his jokes to make? A those his words to use good questions by the way, and fair questions? And it's like people are only asking them for the first time now, but They asked them differently when that movie came up. If you read the reviews of Blazing Saddles then, it was very and I'm not saying these reviews are right. but peopleople are like This is vulgarity punching up against racism and intolerance And this is a movie that's trying to deal with something that's kind of like absent and that pressurizes those old Westerns, which are very white and which have a certain attitude about black characters and about Native American characters. He was kind of seen as being on the side of the good guys, if not like a doctrine leftist, you know bllazing saddles now, I don't know if people are going to be able to get past just the spectacular incorrectness of the language and I mean, that kind of might be fair enough, but I want to show it. I just I kind of just want to show it to see what a room full of kids are gonna do with it This episode is brought to you by State Farm, upsizing to a large popcorn, Smart Move. Staying for the post credit sequence, Smart Move. Finding ways to be financially savvy, V smmart Mve. Maybe the smartest, especially when you choose to bundle home and auto with help from one of State Farm's nineteen thousand local agents, bundling just another way to save with a personal price plan Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. cooverage options are selected by the customer, availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state S we talk about the films? Yeah, Yeah. Adam, I will be making you rank things, which is one of my favorite things to do here. I love rank podcast. That My second favorite thing I do on the podcast. You don'dt like to rank things I hate. You know that about me. That's great I love it. I love it. You know why? ' it's fake. No, it's great fodder for discussion. Okay. You know.s you It gets you to express your feelings about things, to communicate about what isn't isn't good. I mean, We can go through the films's chronologically. mean I think we've just had like a very healthy conversation about blazing saddles and kind of what it means and how it changed things you know, as as we're going through like, the orthodoxy of the end of the Western at the center of Hollywood, that it arrives at a good time. But you know, his first movie is the producers. And as you said, it's a it's Broadway Satire although played. straighter in the first half than I had remembered when I revisited it and then much more outsized in the second half u I get to the production of the show, Springtime for Hitler. It still funny. Its still funny. Just gotta say, it's so funny. I found this movie to be way more polished than I remembered. sespecially having watched some of the newer films before going back to this. and definitely does not feel like a first time director to me. And part of that is maybe because he's got this incredible cast around him and the idea is just so fully conceived. Like it is like arguably his single best idea for a movie. and it is one of the very few movies of his that is not directly referencing Another movie just like it But it also has all of the language of the Busby Berkeley and the older musicals that that have like an actual visual reference and probably lend some of that polish just by okay, so if we recreate sppring timeime for Hitler and you know and make the spinning thing into a swastia then, you know, like we have some film language and we also have some jokes built in. So I think that I think that helps with the polish. Yeah I think so too. And it's like it's also a backstage musical in that way too where you're like watching construction of something, which is also a lot of fun I dont know. How how do you feel about producers now Adam That's great. And he had mean, what manando was saying is so true about the film language and you go one level more, which is that It's Lenny Riefensthahl's film language too Leny Rieensthahl and Busby Berkeley are on a similar wavelength, formally speaking, you know, that idea of like a mass spectacle and that idea where you know you convey ideology through imagery. so like, he's making fun of Busby Berkeley but he'saking fun of Leny Riefenstaahl once removed in the springtime for Hitler thing. and also Again you don't wantan to keep playing the card of like, oh, you had to be there. None of us were there in nineteen sixty eight. but when you think about the fact that that's only twenty years, after the mid forties and after the end of World War II It is not insulated by all these iterations of Nazi humor like in a lousy movie like Jo Joe Rabbit, where there's just so much space that he's kind of, you know, drawing with and drawing from. The producers is in there twenty years later, which is one reason why it was so shhocking. L the shock in the movie. gets mirrored by the shock that the movie kind of caused. and it kind of bothers me that the Broadway musical was so successful that it's made all that feel safer. Again, I mean, good for him. I think that musical made him richer than any of his movies But the original movie is pretty stark and pretty Stling, you know, It's not that cuddly or cute. And it's not Wildly successful. at the time, but it does win him an Oscar Yes. Yeah, which is was it I saw in the documentary. wasn't an actor took out like a full page ad? Was it about this film? It got like two really bad reviews and then My God I wish I rememberered who the actor was very famous actor took out like a full page ad and was like, this movie is amazing, you guys all need to go see it. And then the word of mouth started to spread and then it shifted and then he won the Oscar Sorry that I camet sorry I't write down. Was this one of the I can't reite theHS tapes in your house as well? Like D did your parents like this? No, the producers and the twelve chairs were like not present. Yeah, same for me. Th movies were not made available to me when I was really young for whatever reason. But the producers I suspect will end up in the top five of our rankings, but we can come back to that. The twwelve Chairs is a really interesting movie. D deffinitely did not see this until much later on in life. and it is I think it's the forgotten film in the Brooks filmography, among the eleven movies. It's an adaptation of a nineteen twenty eight Russian novel. And you can see him like Reaching for something? after the ultimate success of producers that you were just talking about and maybe not quite being up for the challenge in a way, but it is it does feel weirdly in the tradition that he does follow through where there's like a certain kind of story archetype that he falls in love with and then kind of wants to pull apart and make fun of Mhm You' gonna defend you going to step in? No, no. I'm just like, could anybody step up to the challenge of like making a buddy comedy of Bolshevik Russia? L I just don't think it's like it already was sort of doomed. it's rough, you know? And like to Amanda's point, like when he's on screen, it's like magical, but like just the storyline is just not fun or that funny. You know? And there's funny moments Frankl Anangegelo really a hot st.. I knew were gonna say that Fandul had that. I could have put money on that. You guys being into Franklgela it' so fun Be it takes a minute to And like you know he's in it and then you were like, wait, wait. That was his reputation at the time. he was sure was ct Dracula because he was generation, you know, It's very It's very different. I't film him. He's a normal person. He's a regular person Um, Aesome, the twelve chairs, Adam I mean, it's not one I watched over and over again. It's a little bit of a forbidden context because it's a literary adaptation. You know, it came out before Woody Allen did Love and Death,, you know, like those two movies very parallel in terms of trying to like tangle with you know, modern or almost modern modern, you know,, you know, prier or modernist literature. I mean, I think it's funny. It's very convoluted and blustery I'm also not a huge Dom Del Luise fan, which is hard with Mel Brooks because he always has Dom Del Luise on hand. I don't dislike Dom Deloise. He's pretty domineeering in the film. I think Llangegello won a big prize for that movie? Is it National Board of Review or the New York Film Critics Circ? I mean, he's great. He fabulous Yeah, gumbll is a little I mean there's a certain kind of physical archetype too that Brooks kind of returns to over and over again where it's like the round guy, the skinny guy, the kind of kveching girl. like he has like a series of strategies that he's deploying in a lot of these movies Twelve year is not one of my favorites No No, you guys are being mean. I mean, I don't think it needs to be in the top five. It does look f. It's not terrible. It's worth seeing. It's worth seeing And to me like exemplifies that brooks thing that we were talking about of you don't You totally understand the source material until you see the movie. and you're like, oh, you know, in the Russians, I was never fully schooled in the Russians, you know? So I try my best, but I appreciated having this as a little bit like ak brothers Karamatov, and you'll enjoy it more. No, no, I think you know, now that I've seen twelve chairs I should go back and be like, o, I see what they're trying to do K know the ending is quite beautiful and touching er up a little bit and I mean, I think it's definitely worth watching. I think it's, you know, it go it's worth watching if you want to understand Melbrooks because I think It's a throughline of all of his not all, but many of his movies is like he does care about upending things he doesn't believe in, such as communist Russia. Yes. And so that's important at least in understanding his you know, orientation towards the world and his politics or whatever that's not. Yeah you guys are all saying bottom half. That's fine. I'm not advocating for it at number one. I just mean you're a classics major, you know, like you're going to bat for the great works. I get it. But I wasn't a Russian literature maor. That's what I'm saying. So I appreciate twelve chairs. You know, we all need our cliff notes. Yeah. I think it's also interet from this interesterestingly important movie that gets him to say Maybe don't take yourself too seriously. you know, like like maybe like let's think about something more lizard brained in terms of what people think is funny. And he he like he learns this real discipline working on the TV shows on your show of shows and doing late night talk show or, you know Tonight' show appearances or Edd Sullan appearces Parr and Steve Allen and ownoning the two thousand year old man stuff we like He knows what gets people laughing in the room and Blazing Saddles to me is like the ultimate example of like, I know what people think is funny, and there's certain things that no one's ever been able to do in a movie and I'm going to do it. And some of it is about scatological humor, some of it is about like sexual desire, some of it's about race, some of it's just about repeating things that You know, Corn pone owboys say in movies and putting a funny bent on them, but I don' Bazing Sads, I think it's like lightning bolt because it seemed so obvious and it felt like nobody had ever really done this before. There were Western comedies before this. There aren't like a lot of lighthearted western movies in the forties and fifties, but maybe not quite as severe as this one. So I think the reason why this is This isn't my favorite Mel Brooks movie but it feels like it is the movie that people who are older than us always bring up first. Yeah I think it'ss good I sorry. I thinks the most important Mbrooks movie. I think I was gonna to say the same. Oh you were Yeah, ' just the intersection of like, well he didn't write it, which is interesting, but he brought in this writ's room as Richard Prior was a writer. You could tell your class that if they start to get angry. But like It's, you know, he's really making commentary about important things and it's not just race and otherism, it's about capitalism, right? It's about this greedy trying to, you know, oust this town and these people not knowing what's good for that. how power operates. Yeah and how they're still punching down against, you know, this black sheriff who who is trying to do what's good for them. Th think and An it's Really fucking funny on top of it I think, I think Madeline Conn in it is one of the greatest performances E. I mean we were talking with people who he had good relationships with, she got it She understood the assignment. I think she like created the assignment and then he like wrote the parts for her. But I mean, no, the sense of resentment in that town towards the new sheriff and the way Cleveland Little plays it, like just just the degree to which he is flustered by the task of just existing daily. and dealing with this and trying to deal with these people and be better and chin up and head high and all that. it's funny and He also all the broad, you know, all the fart jokes and all that, they have some wonderful heighten jokes in there. like Mongo only On only pawn in Game of life is probably the best line in any Mel Brooks movie. It's the one I use the most in my daily in my daily life. all we're all only pawns in the game of life. That''s that's a great one. Also Where are the white women at in front of the KKK is funny today. I think I still think your Gen Z would think that's funny. Like I'm pretty I would guess Richard Pryor wrote that line. He was supposed to be that character. He was' crazy. Yeah. Yeah Yes. But it is also and to its credit, like still really bracing some of this stuff even now you're like, wow, can't believe that you guys did this, said this, got away with this and I'm like I'm laughing because I know what you're going for and I'm also cringing, which, you know powerful and works. And the other thing about this is there was a massive hit, which you know, I mean, that's significant when we like do the history of it all. But also I just want to say another instance where Madeline Khan does the The singing number. You know, all of these movies at some point, you're just happiest when someone's doing a song.'re doing like Marlene D. Very, very funny.. Yeah. I mean, so the movie comes out in ' seventy four. This is the first of two brooks films in ' seventy four. And the number two movie the box office is this year' Blazing Saddles, made forty five million dollars and the number two movie at the box office is Young Fankenstein.. excuse me. N numberber two, number three So it's crazy year for him This has basically not happened before. I mean, maybe Steven Spielberg in nineteen ninety three, really theres it's hard to find years where someone were you were on a podcast with him, right? I was. ye bec foming filmaker. very excited. Steven now Steven n't I mean youankin, young Frankenstein's my, I mean, I don't want to like that will be my number one or it'll be close to it. You know, like that's an that's an amazing film. Yeah, discipline discipline of some of the not all the performances because like Marty Feldman, I can go Either way, but while you're in that film? I'm sorry What huh? That man is a genius Wilder Chloris Lechman. Yeah. Terry Gar, and especially, not especially because they're all good but Peter Boyle in that movie is brilliant Yeah as a physical as a physical comedian, as a voice and as a body. I mean, you know, that's one of the bestank one of the best Frankenstein mononsters performance ever comedy or not. Yeah. Lest we forget Gene Hackman as well, please. Yeah Gene Hackman blind man is the blind. you want? I mean, putting on the wrz came on in my adult beginner ballet class yesterday and the way I couldn't stop laughing just watch you crank it sound. Do you ever see the Bob Baker performance where they do putting on the writs, like they do the local marionette theater here in Los Angeles where we take our children sometimes does like a Halloween special. And one of the segments in the Halloween special is they just recreate, putting on the rits from young Frankenstein as part of it and they have the little Peter Boyle Frankenstein marionette, which is wonderful. Yeah This movie, this is I think this is probably my dad's favorite movie or one of his favorite movies. he definitely showed this to me a very young age Another thing where there's all this kids content Um, becomes portal to horror stuff too. and I think this is another movie too, if you see at a young age and then you start to see some of the benchmarks like the tools that people use for horror movies, but it's not scary really, for the most part. And so seeing this in young age probably also pushed me into that stuff. But it is still just like laugh out loud, funny, Wild there again is like electric in this movie. his energy and his like frustration with the world and the way that he's constantly, you know, Frankkenstein and all that stuff is so Funny to me. I don't know. That's another comedy thing that's carried through like, I feel like Thirty Rock had so many jokes that were like mispronunciation over the name. Thty Rock's a great cult Milok. I think also the signage or whatever. Yeah, yeah. used I used when I had really bad anxiety, I used to carry a CD in my car of Ge Wilder's fresh air appearance And it was like it would soothe me. It was like He's such a sweetie pie. He was just perfect perfect man. I know. I really loved him So we love young Cans. Young Car' is a big favorite. I think For many of Melbrooks heads this is usually right near the top Well, it' it's the best achievement like because in basic filmmaking on its own without you know, and because there are so many Frankenstein movies, like it's I guess it is a satire, but it is also just like another installment. And there's there's something about Young Frankenstein is so successful to me and knows its material so well that then the later Frankenstein movies I seen, I'm kind of like, do we need I think we already have it. Yeah But that's because it stands on its own. Totally. at his best, he could do that, right? He could kind of detonate a genre for a long period of time and make it not Remakeable. Yeah Yeah, the word with that one I think of is it's very disciplined, which is an odd thing to say for a movie that's so insane and not everything and it works, but the formal The way the camera works in that movie and the way the sets work and especially Boyle's performance, the discipline is amazing Okay. What kind of ballet are you doing to putting on the writsz? I mean, that's just kind of up tempo, you know? It's It was like mo You we a jazz. We were doing Yeah moving our it's like an exercise. Oh like tndus. Yeah, Tndus. Great. Yeahah. I'm learning ballet. Thank you guys for asking. Tendis, as it said in my family. My husband read that was in charge of reading the ballet book and we got some Wires crossed. I was just at a ballet recital yesterday for my five year old ballets on the brain. This bu better than me? Tomorrow morning is knocking. Stock your fridge now. How about a creamy mocha raappuccino drink? or a sweet vanilla? Smooth caramel maybe, orr a white chocolate moocha. Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks raappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries. Chronic migraine, fifteen or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more, can make me feel like a spectator in my own life In Botox, onabacha linum toxin A prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those with fourteen or fewer headache days a month. It's the number one prescribed branded chronic migraine preventive treatment Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. 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So after coming out of this year, you'd think that this person could do anything that they want. I mean, he really is at the absolute top of Hollywood and This is This is one of the biggest blank check movies of all time to make an homage to silent cinema in Silent Movie with u Marty Feldman and u It's a weird movie. It's I think it's really well executed, but not very fun to watch. Eespecially if you've seen it before. It felt it feels very long to me. Yeah. And maybe some of that is just not having the displine to sit throughone a certain. I can't know anymore if like my brain damage from having an iPhone for so long and like the erosion of my ability to pay attention I don't know what it would have been like to see this movie in nineteen seventy six. I just can't understand that people had a way different relationship to sitting and watching a film that takes place almost exclusively You have to watch. know, So I don't know. I think to Adam's point about placing saddles or the producers being close to World War two. Like this is still maybe forty five years removed from the height of Silent cinema, so it's not as far away, but I don't have a problem watching Chaplet now, but this movie because it's so gimmicky, it doesn't play as well. is it's very clever And it has a great energy to it. do think of it? What do you of it Adam I'm gonna to argue, will not argue. I mean, like no one's comparing him to like Jacques Tati as a filmmaker, right? But when Tati does something like this in playtime. He's a master filmaker, he's doing it. there's like a social point and it's the language of Silent cinema without being like a pastiche of Silent cinema. I would rather watch Silent movie than the artist, you know But so much of Mel Brooks's humor is verbal. So much of what he's really good at. if we're talking about what he's an all timer at. it's verbal, it's voices, it's intonation, it's delivery It's kind of perverse that he gives himself this challenge and to Yasi's point, because you're right, Yasi about like background signage and site gags, like that is part of his arsenal and he gets to do a lot of it in silent moovie But he's not Blake Edwards when it comes to like staging party scenes and he's not Jacqu Teti when it comes to like physical I think the movie suffers from the fact that it's not really the things he's best at They're like sretty good. It's affectionate. Like, I don't doubt that he wanted to make it I just don't think it's that funny. was I did not feel like re watchatching it for this at all It's definitely worth watching just for the Anne Bancroft Marty Feldman eyeball comedy because that is Really funny. she does an amazing job She's very game. I think also if you're not as into Marty Feldman and not as into Dom Deloies. Yeah pretty essential to the movie. I think the celebrity cameos are fun. Yeah' fun. James fun to watch. But you could also You could just watch clips of it and not watch the whole thing, which you know, becomes more of an issue as you move on in Brooks' filmography and is also It works in concept or Some of the ideas are funny, but it doesn't work as a movie movie. And that, I mean, Adam's right. You're just cutting him off from his voice. That's half of his skill set. There's a great Marcel Marau bit though That joke still plays really well to me. And and just watching Marcel Marau do his thing for thirty seconds in the movie is so wonderful. We're trying to come into the room that is blowing the wind through the windows fantastic, but that almost to me wounds the movie because you're like, this is a silent comedian and you guys are not silent comedians. And there is a kind of skill here that you're platforming in the middle of the movie that makes us feel like the rest of this isn't working quite as well. I appreciate the effort. Didn't go over as well as his two previous movies either. You know what else we didn't mention, maybe because it was too close to his work is Naked Gun and pololice Academy. Yeah, Zuck Abrams those guys airplane and topop secret and the naked Gun films and Thaking of the shower part of that The shower scene. Yes. to me is like so Wonderful. That was great. We're a tall man. Bt Reynolds knock M. Yeah. We' just a big tall man in a coat. Yes. I What is it that is There's gooduff Yeah, it's Again, if you're trying to educate yourself, it's definitely worth watching. It is like I watched this movie twenty years ago and I watched it today and I was like h. I don't know if I need to be watching this right now. High anxiety. We've we've glanced at a couple of times. This is one year later his homage to Alfred Hitchcock thrillers. Um and is I would say fairly u Lyal to the way that a lot of them play out. Yeah know, you can feel like notorious and spellbound and I think a lot of those forties movies in particular, a little bit of North by Northwest Adam, what do you what do you make of high anxiet It's not my favorite again. I mean, again, he's caught. He's caught between affection and reverence and just a kind of cheesiness and the fact that Hitchcock was funny in the first place. There's individual gags in it that are very Good. That's the one where you the orchestra is actually playing the score, right? When the bus Some go by on the bus, which is extremely funny Remember thinking the shower scene very disappointing, given that you have the shower scene is one of the funniest, like it's one of the great scenes in mov history and're like, Oh, what'sel Brooks going to do with this? And it's just like this very pent up thing with a rolled up newspaper. like Bar Levins Sreeaking like that It really made me laugh. I was like, Barry Levinson, man, you're really not you had one moment on screen and you were like, I will make them remember me. I have really love Robert Ridgeley as the flasher at the beginning of the movie too, which is just really almost like seems like The pretense for the Colonel and Boogy Kights I think there's like some sort of correlation between those two characters I like it. What do you think? I like it, but it's another one where it's like, oh, okay, you're doing Psycho. Oh, you're doing North by Northwest. Oh, okay, there's the, you know the vertico movement. Oh, okay, it's the birds. and apparently they used the same bird Wrangler. as Hitchcock did himself. This is according to an incredibly long Kenneth Tyan profile in the New Yorker from like the late seventies So, but, you know, there it's not He's just like redoing movies again. And there is some humor and enjoyment in that. It's like, you know, I like it too, because I also really like Hitchcock movies and todamsoyne, Hitchcock is funny and interesting. There's a lot to work with camera wise and things to put on screen But it's different from something like Blazing Saddles, which is referencing a lot of different movies, but adding some sort of commentary. There's not Not a lot revealed about the world or about Hitchcock in high anxiety. Yeah, I think that's really well put. I think this is where maybe some bad habits form that kind of carry over into the nineties a little bit. Again, like, But It's still better than most show that you would watch even from that bad time. It's not a bad time. A a man. He only makes two films as a director in the nineteen eighties, but they're two of the most important movies that he ever made nineteen eighty one's history of the worldorld Part One comes next which I think is a bit of nostalgiabate for people that are our age. Sure. Adam, what what is your your read on history of the world. I love that Orston Wells is in it. know that's really funny. And I love the Spanish Inquisition scene, which I think is one of the best set pieces in any of his movies you know, turning the Spanish Inquisition into the Esther Williams swimming thing and the nuns and Brooks himself is having so much fun And it I like to think of him in that scene. That's one of the scenes I like thinking when I think about him as a performer, but it also uses the anthology format well. like Silent Movie is making fun of one era of films, but it's kind of relentless and monotonous and High anxiety is disciplined in that it's making fun of Hitchcock, but the results vary History of the world iss great because it's like, this one doesn't work, but there's another one coming along in about ten minutes. So I don't think all the episodes are good But the good ones are good You know, I find the Greek stuff pretty funny. I find the French Revolution stuff funny. The coming attractions for part two. The one thing I've ever showed my kid is the Viking funeral. The Vikings take off their helmets and they still have the horns on, which I just think is an A plusual visual joke It's not his best movie, but I can watch it You know, I think I think parts of it are really funny. What do you think of it? I love it. I mean, maybe it's the nostalgia. Also, I think to Adam's point, like I was thinking about it, and it's like blazing saddles works because the plot is really simple But then when you get to like high anxiety, he's trying to do a really kind of complex storyline along with all of the like references and then it gets kind of like ough What am I supposed to be paying attention? Exactly.ike where it's like when it's really simple you can hang all the jokes on it and it works. And then here he's like there is maybe not any plot. I mean, I think there's a very thin plot. but then you just get to laugh because he gets to have fun with all of the parts of history And still gets to make his like social satire, you know Yeah, that's the thing. I mean, this is like a sentimental favorite for me. And also because of I saw it pretty early on in the run. And again, it's also bitsy, right? You could only see, you know, parts of it. Yes. It's like a big Sday. Yes, But I definitely saw this before I became aware of like people's history of the United States or whatever. you know, And just the idea that, okay, like you are taught history one way in history books, but we can riff on it. we can have fun with it, we can do other P's probablyably one of the first times I encountered it.ess Yeah. It's kind of insightful in that way. You know, But if like if you're ten and you haven't thought about that before, it definitely is insightful and that's how I, you know, interacted with it. So I'm a big fan. I have a question that's kind of overarching and I think it's going get we're gonna to get more into it when we get to sppaceballs and further, but it comes up in a few of the other movies How do you guys feel about how Melbrooks handles homosexuality in terms of comedy Um I think it's fairly contemporary to its time, which is there is like a blend of year around it that is also There's like something subterranean that's like that desire is also real, you know? L he's a partner comedy person and he knows that when you make a bond with someone There is something there, but like men, if you were born in the twentieth century, especially in the first half of the twentieth century A lot of parents were raising kids to fear that or to hate that. And so like this this convulsion of like Well, if you're an artistic person, you're accepting and open minded of all people, but there's this male anxiety about and it's often very m, you know, it's often about men and men together. Yeah. So I don't know, you think there are a lot of examples of it in this movie? No, I mean, actually, this movie had a kind of a good one where in theginning, it's in the very beginning where he's like, there was the first homo sapien marriage followed by the first homosexual marriage, which it' actually kind of being like it's always been around. And like I just I was trying to like figure out, it's not as clear to me as like the racial stuff where you clearly know where what he's coming from, but did I did kind of feel like he was also sending up Homophobia a lot and we'll get into it maybe more with Robinhood Met andites because it's way more prevalent there because it was the nineties. But I still felt in that like he was maybe more making fun of people being homophobic. I mean, one of the hallmarks of his comedy is that he doesn't hate anybody Yeah, you know, or if he is hating them, he's hating everyone equally. I think he kind of trained a generation of people to think that way that like everyone is worthy of parity, but no one deserves to be dismissed You know, he certainly hasn't he certainly hasn't been reclaimed prorogressive vein There's no act of reclaiming of him. the way that there are some filmmakers who aren't maybe Mill Brooks, like other kinds of satirists, right? Pul Verhoven where people like actually, you know, or they'll look at some other films and they'll go actually with Brooks. There's kind of no actually. It just kind of is what it is. I think it's affectionate and regressive And childish and juvenile and not mean spirited, which is not the same thing as calling it particularly progressive or subversive or alternative. Like I don't think people see these movies as acts of real identification or allies ship, they're They're not trying to be. You know? Yeah and yet I think that there is a sense that he's on the right side the time and that never really changed, right? Like People who were coming out against blazing saddles were usually like the fustier And it wasn't about the race parts, right? They were They were coming out against like, this is gross. You've debased the form of film by wrting fart jokes in it. It wasn't even about what we would think they would be up in arms about. I did just want to say briefly to be or not to be, which is a film that he starred in with Anne Bancroft, which is Alan Johnson directed the movie. I didn't revisit it for this conversation, Adam. I don't know if you've seen it recently, but it's the rare c a starring part in a movie that he didn't write or direct. Yeah, but what it has in it via him is affection for older movies, not just in that it's a remake, it's very affectionate. for Lubage Right? for the original, but it's also not one hundredth as good as the Lu bit to be or not to be, which is the problem. like the spirit is willing, but the film is This week. Yeah, it's worth. I would not a movie I would choose to remake if I had an option. It's interesting is like young Fankenstein is Frankenstein in so many ways, but just calling it Young Frankenstein and letting the characters inside of the movie acknowledgeed the story of Frankenstein in some way. makes it feel different enough, or is this just being a one to one remake of a an all time classic makes it a little bit less successful. So U few years go by here and spaceballs comes M Now, Spacebosse is released ten years after Star Wars and four years after reteturn of the Jedi So it is been fully subsumed into the mainstream culture. And honestly It's not starting to expire by any means It is settled. it's settled business. this is like new cultural canon in America. And a long time goes by before he does it Um And a lot of it is like pretty faithful to the story of Star Wars. You know he is in that mode of just kind of retelling the story in some ways with different characters with more There's more gross out humor, there's more foul language, there's more riculousness and yet, I think for at least among my friends when I was a kid, this was very an iconic movie, a movie that we watch over and over again. It' sleepovers that U the phrases from the movie sorry, Hello my baby, Hello my darling Dancing alien of comedy to me. Nothing. mayaybe even now. I was laughing hysterically watching it like three days ago. Eespecially ' John Hurt came back. I It's really, really good. That was explaining that to a four year old, I was like, okay. We fast forwarded through that to s but I did it. Yeah. I was like, I don't know if I won. John Hurt's abdomen.ing open in front of my daught. That was one where he was just interested in the dance. He was like, whyy is that guy dancing? Who was that guy? Two questions. Well, he's an alien. That's in the spirit of what is her legend? He really is your son I love this movie I think it was Itready flawed when I was looking at it through my forty three year old eyes yesterday. I flawed. was it meant to be? It's similar to. It's a high anxiety where I'm like This is almost overreliant on the source text Yeah and it makes it a little bit it made it a little bit less successful as a satire for me. I think the best stuff is stuff that Adam cited earlier, which is like the way that becausecause it has some distance, it's able to look at the mass consumer culture that came up around Star Wars. and it's really funny around that. you know, the doing the joke about sppace Balls too within sppaceballs is so funny. A good example of a movie where when Mel shows up in the movie, you know, as Yogurt or as the president, he's so funny. He's kind of like redoing u his character in Blazing saddles is the president and Yogurt is incredible.'s just so so entertaining I don't know. There were a couple moments where I was like zoned out a little bit to be honest with you. It doesn't mean that I don't love spaceballs and it isn't a personal favorite of mine, but up against stuff like young Frankenstein, it paled in comparison a bit. Well I'd propose it because we've done this kind of subjective thing where I said I didn't like Marty Feldman, Nyask, was like, how dare you? For me, the thing that carries spaceballs is He cast Bill Poullman before that was a thing. That's true. I'm a Bill Poullman appreciator. He's sneaky case as one of the greater American actors in the last thirty years, att least judged by the good stuff. She's so funny doing Harrison Ford without impersonating him. There's one bit. I mean, we don't just want to do bits and none of us are funny impersonators, but there's one he's with the princess and he's like, she's like, arerenn't you cld like the gold doesn't bother me. And then you just see him shiver a little bit. The line reading I've had in my head for like forty years I think having him and John Candy and to a slightly lesser extent, Joan Rivers in the same movie is kind of an amazing assembly. and Miranus, who was Not long for Hollywood after that for a bunch of reasons. I mean, it's not his last performance or anything, but like McMoranus didn't get overexposed because of the choice he made to back away from Making movies. He's hysterical in that incredible. Yark Helmet. ye. So I think' some the safari Yeah, the satire is good in terms of what Star Wars became. Brooks always said he made that movie because his kids watch Star Wars on VHS over and over again. and that's why I think technology and VHS are so key to what's funny In the movie, like the when will then be now? bit. I mean Sean's probably right that it's flawed, but this is one of those where I'm playing my card of like, who cares? It's flawed. I mean, I can't I can't imagine a time before I watched it. It's like a conduit to like me being seven years old, you know? Yeah. It's like the naked gun to me. like is the naked gun flawed Yeah, because it's just a a send up of a thing but without any real like, and this is kind of that too. And I'm like, I don't care they're combing the desert. I know, the giant comb is. They have a giant com and they have the black pick. That's one of the best moments they're like, Did you find anything thing? We found shit. I also point out it's a PG movie She uses his one because it's so superfluous. Do you remember you watch these mvie? you remember what it? just watch the yesterday What what is I forget. The whole movie, there's no F word. and then right at the end when the spaceship is breaking down, they're like, you have two minutes to get off. And Rick Man is just like, Oh fuck even in the future, nothing works. And when you're a kid watching a sleepover, that word is like a detonation going off. like maybe not for a ten year old, but I was eight I'm like, Oh my God, they said that and I'm allowed to watch the movie because we were allowed to watch the movie because our parents probably didn't realize that there was an F word in it because it looks like Star Wars. Well assholes is uttered like nine times in the film. Nine times. Yes.. My parents are immigrants, so they didn't care about that kind of stuff. They were like, Ohh, we're gonna to watch basic instinct. I was like, I'm nine. They did not care about that kind of stuff. This is just, yeah, I'm sorry I love it. Cry air babe. Also and like there's also random other bits like the hell of my baby is alien. there's Vinnie character. I'm like, is that Max's headroom, you know? Like there's this other kind ofs that are just like, you I didn't grasp them then, but now I look back and I'm like, oh, you were also playing off of other pop culture moments. like We did a Star Wars draft a few months ago, which was quite controversial in many ways. but I can't remember Spaceballs was not eligible in the main category. It was maybe eligible in the wild card like Star Wars related would have been Yeah. I mean, there's an argument that it's just one of the better Star Wars movies that has been made, especially in recent years and given Mandalorian and Grogo, which is both a testament to it being a good movie and also it being very Star Wars dependent.. you know, I'm kind of with Adam with like, who cares at some point, but I agree with you, sitting through it and it's not because my child was scared. I was just kind of like Okay, I got a couple more movies to get through here. Let's you know, let's keep it moving. I remember the jokes, But that's also true of any comedies that you've watched a million tim times tim That's right, You know. No, that's part of it too. I'm sure that's part of my experience with the war I just I know what beats are coming around every corner. That movie was a big hit and also became an absolute VHS classic. and fourour years go by before life stinks which u I had not seen. had not I had not seen it. I just saw it for the first time A week ago. Um and I don't know why it got past me. I guess I was eight when it came out and so We weren't rushing out to theater to see that one. My parents were obsessed that's why we saw it We't speak on it I mean, again, when I was eight, it's different, I still think it I think it holds up. I think it's like I think he's playing pretty straight for Mel Brooks, which is kind of cool. It's a It was And Adam will know this better or you guys will know this better. But I feel like there was just like a stretch of films that had a similar premise where it was like, what if a rich guy had to be poor? like Brewstro's millions, mayaybe it was one of Trading trading places. Trading places sorry that's not Ikingm trad places And I thought this one uncharacteristically like had a real plot, was like had this real tenderness about person discovering his humanity and like seeing what it's like to live, you know, how a lot of people live. I thought Leslieanne Warren was incredible. And I even watching it last week, I was like, I still think this is I think it holds up. I think it's a good movie. Maybe it's not a prototypical Mel Brooks movie And so in that sense, I don't know how it falls in the canon because like there's jokes, but not maybe to the like slapstick level of his normal films Yeah. It looks up the slapping, the literal slapping part with the guy who thinks he's John Paul Gettty, that's like the Stty Stooges moment. That part is really fucking funny. What do What do you make of life stinks? It's an outlier You know, It's not a parody, although it's referencing L Frank Capra and certain, you know, class like, you know, the class commentary of certain screwball comedies. It's not, I mean, it might have been more interesting or not more interesting Like if it had been more explicitly a forties movie? might have, you know, brought that out a little bit. L the movie I would compare it to not that much, but it's like the Cohenenss making Hudscker proxy where they're like This is about a different era of filmmaking and kind of values within filmmaking, which they're a lot less sincere about in Hudsck or about, you know, class and wealth and then brooks. I mean, I think Nasi's right, Life Sns is very sincere I think one thing that's really interesting though, sorry to cut you off Adam and just have to say it, but that I didn't know this at the time, but then now having known this, it really hit me hard because the Leslie Anne Warren character's whole thing is like her story is how she was a dancer and she married her husband and he left her and she gave up her career. And that's not exactly, but it mirrors the story of Mel Brooks and his first wife. and like yeah, I'm sure he was putting that in there for some sort of like Moc culta really touches me, I don't know Okay, sorry, I'm a little wonder about it. Yeah. it's hard not to think about her in that way. Yeah. Leslie and M like a wonderful in this movie and very underrated actress in general But that actually made me a little queasy knowing that, especially having watched the documentary It's hard because he takes from so many people and then you don't want to compare him to anybody. and know like the Cohen comparison is unfair. But the other comparison because it's a little more contemporary, like both versions of Pennies from Heaven. Not the really recent min know, likeure heaven at Peter one and you a sing detective. I feel like that's what he sort of kind of going for here. He wants it to kind of feel old, but then it's bound up in contemporary. He does this weird special effects ending with the cranes or the construction equipment fighting just to use this word again. It's not super disciplined and I don't love him in a You know, but I haven't watched it in a long time I'm just trying to think of who would be an interesting Steve Martin Steve Martin. Steve Martin. Yeah. Steve Martin would have been and Ste Martin made a of movies like the Stirdy Rround Scoundrels is kind of similar energy, very like high concept, but more grounded execution. It It's an interesting movie, especially because it's sandwiched between all of these like very clear parodies, and we're going into the final two movies, which we can talk about maybe together, which is Robin Hmen and Tites and Dracula Dead and Loving it. And they're very similar films that are working off of you know historical literary ideas that have lots of movie adaptations that come before them. And so these movies are just Um, gag machines, they're just blueprints for jokes. and in some cases there're you know, very clearly repeating the classic structure of the Bram Stoker novel Um, or of the Robin Hood story, but in other cases, they're just kind of veering off and doing their own thing and doing like very contemporary comedy that maybe won't age as well to or like references to stuff that's in the culture that isn't going to be as long lasting Um That being said, Like I said, I was eleven and thirteen when these movies came out and I loved them. I thought they were so funny and in their juvenality, like that didn't really bother me at all, I purposefully not rewatch them for this conversation. because I don't want to break the spell on these, but you didci I did. I'll tell you what, Robin and Menentites Still it's fine. Yeah, it's dumb. but it's still like I was like, I love this. I love the Richard Lewis' mole moving all over the today. It's a great. Dave Chappelle is a star from for nineteen years old. Yeah. it's. And Carrie always was like to me Tom Cruise when I was that age because of Princess Bide and this. The Heayy Abbot guy they're just like there's amazing it's just this still did it for me I couldn't get through Dracul like D and Lving. I did try to like faithfully to watch it and like loveo and respect my new friend, Stehven Weber That I could not do it. I was like, I'm sorry, this is not working. Yeah, you and Stehen Webber Homies now. Well,, I think we're close personal friends. That's awesome. ye. ye. Congrats. Wonderful man. Lo. at either of these. Yeah, I re watchatched both of them. Here's my thing on Robin Hood Men and Tites, which did have cultural significance to our generation I just don't care about Robinhood, just like the story in general. like the I like the broad idea, politics pro. Maid Marian seems fine. King John definitely a herb, but like you know, I didn't watched the Kein Costner one at. I didn't care about that at all. That was boring. Disney Robinhood. Brian Adamsah Adamsactly is great. Yeah, it is. And that one' the hot fox. Yeah the hot foox Foridal to my young sexuality was that hotx ox Rob with all other just like, okay, he steals from the rich to give to the poor. that? got me no. And there's a new one Hugh Jackman's doing it now and I gotta like we're gonna do a whole podcast. I just I don't really How many times do I got to watch this? I support the idea and I'm out. So I was kind of bord. It' kind of the momom Dony of his time though. you know you got As I said, great politics. I like the idea, do ide leave yourself off at least one single was yours So I was a little I was little born. back for Jam according shortly after. I' a prrincess bride. Okay Okay Cara was, you know, fantasy parody. And then you see a lot of like the shadow puppets in the sword fight, Oh we didn't even talk about awesome powers ot ofers Mal R anden point and A Powers is like I was thinking Just a few years later after these movies. What do you think of these movies Adam? So first of all, seventies, Disney, Robin Hood most off cighted movie from people I know as a kind of like childhood like, oh these characters are attractive. Like that' that is that is that is everybody. Yeah that hy for those rocks abbsolutely. Yeah. But I think I think B in Tites is both good and bad because Prince of Thieves deserves it so much. Yeah Be like Prinetcy is, I think one of the worst Hollywood movies from the of the Unight. Al Allan Richman accepted because he's brilliant in that movie and was good in everything. It's such like awful narcissistic dreary movie and it has that horrible Brian Adams song. And like it was like a hit kind of without people really wanting it to be and like Costner's a big star at that point. So like deserves it. It's also such a lousy movie that making fun of it relentlessly for two hours gets tiring. and he does bring other Robin Hoods into it, but not that many. Like there's a little bit of a nod to the Arl Flynn one, which is one of my favorite movies ever, the addventures of Robin Hood My little embarrassing disclosure for this movie and I remember it from being a kid He made Marion's song becausecause Mel Brooks loves songs and we talked about, you know song numbers. It's actually very pretty The song that she sings about herself or Marion is I can like still hummet in my head. and I'm not that weird a person. So that says something that I still remember. And her chastity belt is really funny too eververl last. Yeah. And I love Amy Aszbeck in general. I think she's really funny. Yeah could have been great if given more stuff like that. John R was married to John And Elways is very, I mean, I agree with Yasi. Kerry is great. He's a great light comedy star and he's spoofing himself in Princess Bide H for sure. he's very enjoyable. It's hard not to like him doing that stick because he's actually good at it You know, he's not just a good looking guy who's doing it. He can do it well. There's a lot of newewer Melbrook stuff in here, right? Like you were saying, like Vy contemporary jokes, like the H Alone kid, the Reebok pumps, the pps And they are kind of funny if you experience them, but probably not if you didn't. Sort Ch life. Yeah. That's right. also his own self referential jokes are great too. L the when they make Dave Chappelle the sheriff at the end and someone goes a black sheriff and he goes, why not? It worked in blazing saddles.. It's good to be the king is back in this one. like you know, and I kind of like when he does that just because I'm a big Malbroo fan. I'm like you deserve. go ahead reference yourself. You're right I find both of these movies very charming, Dracula is way junkier, but I also just like love Dracula movies, so I'm willing to forgive it, a lot of stuff too, you know? Yeah. And I like those actors. I love I can't remember the guy's name who is in Allie McBal who plays them Oh. McNichkel Yeah Peter McNichl. Yeah And Stephen Robert, it's great. And Amy Azbeac is back and Yes. And Melbert becomes very funny in Dracula as well. Yeah But yeah, they're not as successful. so I argue the problem in that one is Lesy Nielsen becausecause Leszie Nielsen had the magic powers working with the az people like magic, how good he is in those movies. when he kind of stepped away from them, which he did a few times because there's wrongfully accused, which isn't really a Zazz movie and there's u What's it called two thousand one of sppace travesty? Nielsen tried to become a little cottage industry of these things on his own. I just don't think that he's funny acting for Brooks. They did not They didn't work out. He did a bunch of these. I mean, it's forgotten. He did spy hard. Ohy. Spy hardfully accused, which was the fugitive one He did repossessed, which was like an exorcist style one. He made a love I love that. I love that movie.sessed. Your eyes just lit out. I happyious you was stved into the whole podcast. No, it has that bit where Jesse Venture and M mean Je Okerin show up at the end to commentate on the exorcistm like it's a WWF match, I think that's really funny Senator H Jy Finer Okay, eleven movies. And we also cited obviously a huge hand in the Elephin Man and the Fly as a producer and Francis. yourour beloved Francis And along with all of his TV work, none of that, we're not talking about any of that. We're just talking about the eleven movies that he directed, most of which he wrote or co wrote Um It sounds like our favorite me and Adam is Young Frankenstein. I don't know whereere you guys stand on that? I don't know if it's easier to work from the bottom up or the top down or what can argue with Young Frankenstein at one if you want. My favorite is blazing saddles, but I couldn't understand. I might see why Young Frankenstein is better And they would be blazing saddlesum historical significance. Yeah. And I think that they both play so to speak right now, you know, like and I know you'rere you're going through this experience with with the students, Adam, but You know, mayaybe you can share this episode as part of your curriculum, you know, as some olds talk about why some of this stuff is funny and relevant and still work. That's what everybody That's what makes people laugh is here's why this is funny.y As long as they can illegally download it, they'll watch it I mean, this was candidly a concern I had about doing this podcast in general, which is just like people talking about what is funny is inherently awfulure Having done many episodes of the three re Watchables about funny movies where you're like, remember that time, Like that's all you do. He holds so much weight in a culture in terms of influence that felt like we should do it. OkayK, Young Frankenstinon, bllazing Saddles too. Yeah. Number three Now asssume that Spaceballs is the most beloved say that the producers is the most important. And what is this was for Well, it's a subjective act in which we're making Adam uncomfortable with having to categorize in this way. So let's give let's give the one that won the Oscar for writing Okay Number three. Look at Lucas.'s way ahead of us. He already put the producers in a number three. It's as though he knew that Adam was going to say that The good news is this list doesn't impact anyone's life. you can do whatever. This will give Milbrooks another one hundred years And also what We're gonna at you. will you feel bad? Be I you talk the way about my film. When this list is published without context, it's going to be Yasi Soalx Melbrooks Roving my Instagram That's not how Melbrooks needs to know me. We know that won't be the case. And do we think we go with spaceballs at four just ' we all seem okay with it? I think so. Yes. I think that makes sense. I think the hard work starts now. Okay. Five through eleven is very complicated I guess history of the World Part one at number number five. ye R. It's got a lot of joyful moments. It's very well liked And if you want to skip over a certain sequence that you don't like, can do that while watching the movie, which is one of the ingenious aspects of its design. Do anyone watch the TV show the most recent. you watched a little bit of it. It'site funny. Yeah. Yeah so many cameos, it's like you can't not like it. Yeah. ye Um, it's so funny that he's IP when he worked off of IP for so long. All right, six through eleven I mean man, I' Weould just do it alphabetically Robin. That's what I was gonna to say. Yeah. And I think that that is sentimentality operating for me But you know what I'm a part of this show. I like Lick stinks better, but because it's such an outlier, I don't know how it's supposed to be ringed, you know Life stinks will not be getting in the top six. U fiveine. Okay, Robins go. let's go with Robinhead out of respect to the very funny people are who are in it. There's good performances in it. Yes. Oh Tracy Alman wen't even mention Tracy Tracy Alman is in that. This train Thats character.. All right, Amanda, since you don't love Robinhood, but we put it at number six, what do you want at number seven Let's see. U We've got what's left? We've got elve chairs Silent movie, highigh anxiety, Dracula Dracula dead and loving it, which is definitely not a life. That's gonna be Deadlast right. Life stinks you want, Dadlast as well. So it's between silent movie, highigh anxiety and twelve chairs. You know, they all, they're all trying things with like Varying levels of accomplishment, but none embarrassing and none that wildly funny Um So I don't. I'll eliminate silent movie. It can go later. And then between high anxiety and twelve chairs. can H anxiety is more watchable than twelve chairs because you It's hard. I think maybe being being seventh on a Ringer podcast about Mel Brooks might peak literally two people's interest in watching the twelve chairs. Oh you want you want to I that was the most interesting. And also I just like, don't make movies about therapy. ever. You know, we're done. you goo to therapy, don't make a movie about it. the end. I don't agree with that at all, but someone who treats movies as therapy. That's good. That's. So then we'll say the twelve chairs at seven Let's say high anxiety at eight and then Silent movie, Dracula Dead and looving it and you can put L Stinks think L Sinks is better than Dracula Dad and loving it. I Yeah We thought that you were putting those. I wasn't putting them in order. I was just saying their names. It's also more successful than Silent movie in my opin. Go ahead Yas,. Do do the final three. How would you like? I think I would do Lve stinks, silent movie, and then Dracula Dad and looving it No' Is life thing better than silent movie? It thing has Paul Newman in it. Yeah, that's true. That's true You're right I could go either way Okay we can as long as Dracula Dead looving it is eleven. It is eleven.. I'm so sorry that. It does, But Dracula deaden looving it has Lette Anthony being hot. Like I don't know if you guys recall that part. Adam, you remember that part I do, but I haven't watched that movie since I was like eleven years old.id't save theilm. M you feel eleven years old. Yeah't I mean honestly them in the big jacket, it's like just And James Chan is so hot. It was really amazing moments. Apologies to your childhood, Life stinks at ten. You know, you know, you always call me a contrarian and I just happen to think for myself, which is a rare commodity this day and age. And so I think watch lifeife stinks for yourself, you guys and make your own decisions. Watch Life stinks for your own research. Yes Yeah. Do would you like to recount this ranking? Sure At eleven, Dracula, Dead and Loving it. at ten, apologies to Yasi, Life stinks at nine, Silent movie. eight, highigh anxiety, seven, the twelve chairs, which Adam Neaman and I hope you check out. Six Robin Hood men and tights. five, History of the W partart one, four, spaceballs, three, the producers, two blazing saddles, and number one, Young Frankenstein that we've done the work here. Oh yeah, absolutely Adam, where can we find you in the city of Toronto Um, in the ringer in the newew Republic Uh watching the Jays horrible season unfold. I'm around. I'm always I always just seem to be around. Every month or so you guys tryot me out and you're like, you still there? I am. But you know, I' love being here. That's love being. That is not what we say to you. First of all, speaking of the Jays, can you just take Bobaette back? What the fuck dude What sorry about that You know what? As someone who is at game seven, I have a really brilliant insight. Can I share this one a Ring or podcast when you can win the world series, you should win the world sereries Yeah when you're like one when you're like one out away from doing it like really Six months later, this is what I think we should have done. I know at the time it seemed okay. probably should have won the World Series. And then Bobachette would have stayed And Seaan would be happier and I would be happier as someone who was lied by him. No, it But you guys will be in Toronto, and I look forward to seeing whatever you do there Yeah, we look forward to it too. We do. That's That's in that's in the province of Ontario Yes. Yeah, you you can make me name all fifty states anytime. There's a lot of responses to that to whether we wouldd be able to name all the provinces and territories. Adam, just, you know, I've been to Saskatchewan and Winnipeg. so That was Canada Bingo. That's Canada Bingo. you get to both of those places., I'm Canada ro We wantone to like us. Thank you guys for thank you guys for having me on as always. Thanks for being here. Yas, where can we find you? You can find me like, you know, one day away from grippy socks in the Google Doc at all times prepping for my podcast bands plays on the Ringer Podcast Network. Give it a listen. Wonderful. Thanks guys to both of you. Thanks to Lucas Kavanaugh, Sarah Rty, and Jamie Yuuchich for their production support on this episode later this week. It's finally time to talk about Stehven Spielberg and disisclosure Day, which is his new film. we'll see you then Hey, it's Ran Renold from MitMobile. Now. I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited preremium wireless for fifteen dollars a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made fifteen dollars bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try at mintmobile dot com slash switch