Finalizing the Top Spielberg Rankings

I San Faneny I'manob. This is the The big Picture Conversation showh about Spielberg and review on today's show in the Aftermath of Disclosure Day. We are looking at the film's reception, the twenty first century output of Steven Spielberg and a couple of new movie releases. But first, let's talk about some movie news and some other news right after this Okay, man know we did it. It's your time. NBA Champion. Iix. I haven't really talked with you about this. I talk briefly before we recorded. I was watching. I was thinking of you, very excited for you. Thank you. But I honor that by giving you your distance and your space to podcast with Zach Lowe and others. Yes, I was fortunate to go on the Zack Lowe show yesterday afternoon to talk about my experience with the last couple of games in this series to bask in the glory of the victory. Let's set the scene. So you watched again at home. Same same setup. Same deal. Yeah. Well, actually I ended Game four watching in my bedroom And so I felt like I had to start game five watching in my bedroom. Okay. And then but that meant that Alice was frequently coming into the bedroom to watch the game with me. Okay. And because we were having this experience together throughout this series, it was very important to me. I actually effectively sent her away in the fourth quarter. because she was having a hard time listening. And then with two minutes left She got shut back back. And so we got to watch the end of the game together and listen You know, I forty three. I'm a lifelong Ns fan. I'm a really sad sports fan I have not talked about the Kicks a lot on this show over the years. It's really only in the last three and a half years or so that they have formed their identity. Yeah. I love the team and I'm really proud of the team. and I said it on Zach showow and I'll say it here I do feel D differentere. I feel like I changed And this is what we were waiting for. This is the missing piece I think so. I think I'm not actually a very angry person. I can be a little resentful And I can be very like touchy sometimes when somebody comes after me. And you are very cynical I am, but that't I'm not mad about that. I think there's a kind of acceptance around my cynicism So now The anger has really eroded. Because that was the primary place for my personal anger was around sports. Yeah. And I said to Zach, I felt very Fearful. and embittered watching sports over the years, and I felt it all fall away when they want, I was really just So genuinely happy. Okay. And u And I think it's going to change even more in my life. I mean, you know, we've got a great situation here and things are going wonderfully, but like the fact that I felt even better, I'm confused. I said to you after game four, like I don't know what to do with myself. Yeah, I actually do know what to do with myself, which is just go forward try to be even more happy. That's what this gave me the ability to do. And so I'm just, I'm really pleased. I'm really, really pleased. It It's lovely and also a little weird. I. And it is it is a little bit like when Alice was born and you were really happy and changed. I like I understood. I was moved too. It is similar. No, I know. get it. I mean, I live with a fellow psycho sports fan. you know, I'm surrounded by them at all times. And And when I spoke to Zach when I spoke to Zach Low, I cited my Philly friends and the change that they had. and I saw You know, I saw them in, I saw the you in your house and I saw the exalultation, the jubilation that they had when that was. And I was happy for them and I was looking at them and I was like When will it be my time? when will didid you also drink an insane amount of brown liquor very quickly and then throw it up? I didn't, I have drin think I think I've had thirty nine beers through the five games of this series which every morning has kicked my ass the next day because then you're like, childcare for the next fourteen hours, good luck. But listen conversations about the games and stuff are on the Zack Lop pod, but it really really helps that the team itself was just really, really likeable and was really together and Never flinched, never blinked and they went on this unbelievable run through the playoffs, sixteen and three whichich it didn't feel that way in the finals because all the games were so close. It didn't feel like they were some dominant team. Right. And that Well in the fourth quarter of every game it did. True, whichich is I would like to understand maybe I'll start listening to basketball podcast to understand like What is going on in terms of It's hard to explain. the inexperience of the Spurs the incredible veteran qualities of the Kicks was an amazing clash. We Zach and I talked a little bit about whether or not the Kicks were kind of intentionally baiting the spurs into playing too hard in the first half of every game. Be you just see them completely run out of gas in the last four games, especially. but You know, I said it before, like I hate Wemby. I was happy to see him embarrassed. I make no bones about it. I just I really came to despise him and see him as an arch villain of the league. He has a lot of growing up to do. I do fear him though. He's incredibly gifted But okay Jayen Bronston forever I spent five hundred dollars on Kith Nicks gear on Saturday night, you know, like that's where I'm at. That good Well, so this t shirt is not new. No, I've had this for a while. Yeah, but it it's I like the design. I wouldve liked to see some of You know, the merch design before you bought it just for approval. You'll know soon. I'm wearing it on this podcast. Right That's the thing is I've never had the opportunity to buy that kind of gear. there is a Ben Stiller documentary that was being captured. There is some film intersection with this Nick victory that we can talk about briefly. Josh Staftty was there. Josh Safty was there. Josh Safftty directed the Nike commercial Yeah that was that aired almost immediately after this championship, which is a truly amazing Nike commercial that made me feel like I was watching a Mars Blackman Jordan commercial or one of those like famous dribbling commercials that Nike used to do or Gang star commercials that had like Darious miles from the nineteen nineties, like I have all these great personal memories of loving Nike basketball commercials. And we just got one instantaneously directed by one of my favorite directors who is a true Blue Nicks fan and a true bllue New Yorker. So stuff like that was happening. And then Stiller has been making a documentary about his team. So that's crazy. Also I mean, Spike Lee was like there in the building. he and John T Toro and matching Orange which was so awesome. Very sweet. into every game and he was flying to San Antonio, that part was great Um And then shall me And he said I would rather this than the Oscars. Yeah do they want. I mean, so did Bradley Cooper after the Super Bowl and like we know that that's a line planted, but it's fine. Listen, I will be it will be me, Kylie Jenner and Timmy very awkwardly together on Chalamay Island and I won't be involved in anything. I mean, I'll never leave him. I'll never leave him. He and I are good for life. We're good for life because that was that was special. we went through that through that together and Yeah, man, so I'm doing great. Congratulations.. It was fun. I enjoyed watching it. And I mean, again, it was just it was one of those that got so big, shhout out New York Yeah it did, it did. They took over and it seemed like it was mostly safe and Jubilant. And I had a lot of FOMO And I have a lot of friends still in New York and I would have liked to have been there but my own superstition kept p very tightly on my couch. I feel good about the choices that I made. Yeah. And like I said, I said this toZact, but just watching it with Alice There's nothing like it And the thing that I said was, I was four years old when the New York Mets won in nineteen eighty six I don't remember it. and I don't remember somebody saying to me Don't forget this. And my daughter is not yet five. She's about to turn five, but she's still four And about a minute after they won, I picked her up and I pointed at the screen. I said Remember this This happened to me when I was your age and I don't remember and just cherish this moment It may not happen again. Yeah. donon't know. It might not happen again. And so one her getting on board with Nicks Fandom is such such a w And and to have that together was really, really cool. So And also honestly, I think Eileen will just be a much happier person too because she does not have to deal with the insane storm cloud that I bring to every Sunday with the Jets, to every afternoon with the M games. like Do feel like I can let go of some of that stuff? And I told Jack Sanders Nets and jets are next This can happen now The cynicism can fall away. That's what I'm weirded up. I don't know what to do when you're, you know, open hearted and fuzzy about everything. In January, I was like, well, this next team is going to get knocked out in the fld first round of the playoffs.. When the Kicks were down to one of the haawks Seven weeks ago, I was like, sheh. They might lose and my ground might get fired. And then where the hell are we? Are we trading Cat? Are we going after Yanis? I really thought that could happen. That was seven weeks ago Okay. R. Well, sure, but also what that teaches me is that, you know, life's a roller coaster. And so are you. But I'm happy for this moment. Okay. Thankk you to the listeners of this show for tolerating these recent Nix conversations. I try to not get too sports brained on this show, but It was necessary. It was a it was a big deal It was a big deal. Okay, let's go to movie stuff. Okay. We'll do the box office quickly. Disclose your day. relelatively overperformed at the box office. It was about in the zone that you and I discussed on Friday's podcast where we said we thought it would be low forties, I think. It was projected to be about thirty five million. Most projections are usually under. This one went to forty four domestically and it went to ninety three million globally, which is pretty darn good. And also our peers went. Yes old crowd. Yes. fifty nine percent of the audience was over thirty four. Yeah. And so I think that that walk up power of the olds, who know the name Steven Spielberg really held here Feels like maybe this movie didn't totally resonate with with the twenty something things or Jen Alpha. We're gonna to talk about that a little bit later. they they did go see obsession once again. They did. And thank you to them.. Box office is thriving. A few people have noted this. This movie crossing forty million means there's a very good chance that I think we're going to get something like ten consecutive weekends of a movie opening at forty million That's great. That's old school twenty eighteen box office stuff. So this great year that we've been having continues on. This is Spielberg's first summer hit in a really, really long time. I think basically since minority report, This is the first time he's had like a proper summer blockbuster Um Be because he's had some sequels, he's had some spring releases, some fall releases, some winter releases BFG was not a big hit in the way that this What about War of the World? War of the Worlds was a December film I think I'm looking at this right now and it says june twenty ninth Maybe that's the one I'm thinking of. Okay. June twenty ninth for war I'm looking at a Wikipedia. take that I'm just if that's the case. in terms of big block. It wasic it was December that year. you're right., That's right. that thatouble will happen films in two thousand five. We'll get into those films a little later in this conversation. I did have the thought, I wonder if this is the last commercial film that Spielberg attempts You know, when we were at South by Southwest together, he said he was working on a Western film. Yeah. Western's not historically in the last forty years, the most commercial enterprises And he was really, you know he seemed very comfortable in the Fabelman's and Westide story, exploring stories he felt he really needed to tell over long periods of time. A Western would be something similar. This was his I can still bring the world together with the movie attempt and it it pretty much got there I think it's going to have a drop next weekend I don't know anyy surprises to you about how this did No, I mean, I was pleased. I was pleased both that it the underwhelming tracking numbers and also that it seemed to do pretty well internationally. that it was noisy, which, you know, is good. It's just nice that Spielberg can still like really bring it, which you and I know that he can, but And I have loved all his last movies, but we haven't had something this like big and commercial in a while. Yeah, he commanded the movie conversation for three straight days, for sure We'll do some second thoughts on the movie shortly, but I did want to hit a couple of new movies that came out. I saw both of them Um I I fired up office romance. as did I On Friday night. Okay. Eileen and I watched it Full disclosure, Een fell asleep. I did not fall asleep. I was fascinated by this. This is a classic Netflix movie that went to number one on its ratings and everyone everyone watched it loggged all over the place on letterbox, and I was like Okay, I was streaming Jennifer Lopez movie. I've seen these before. It does have some interesting bonafides to it. So it's directed by Eul Parker, who directed Mam of Me, Here We go A again, and Tket to Paradise, The George Clooney, Juli Roberts V vehicle. It' written by Bret Goldstein, who people may know from Ted Lasso. Goldstein also is the star of the movie alongside Lopez and It's about what is it about, Amanda? Tell us what office romance is about? So Jennifer Lope Pz plays a CEO. of an airline A discount airline a cruise Air crruise. Um, and ree meets the in house council Payed by Breck Goldstein and they have a spark But also her airline has very draconian anti fraudnization laws. so they can't open themselves up to love. And also she might lose the airline because because lawyers. Yeah She's the heir to this airline. Her father was the founder of this airline And um The movie is basically just Goldstein and Jayo want to fuck. Yeah, but they can't Because if they do, it will threaten her ability to own an airline. Right. Not the most relatable premise for film that I've ever seen I will say, I kind of enjoyed this movie way more than I thought I would. This script is not bad. It's not bad. And the Bret Goldstein of it all, you know, I liked the first season of Ted Lasso, not the second season once it got, you know, sadden about therapy. We agree on that. but He's charming. They have decent chemistry If the the one liners or the moment to moment of it are very good. Yeah. I think the the situation could use some enhancement. And then I mean, it because it's just like very Yeah the premise premise is really. I mean, listen Romantic comedies, like all other genres are about world buildilding and this world building is very small and very budget airline, which is why I said that Air Cruise is budget. Forgive me if it's, you know, the new air to Delta. that wasn't really giving Delta one, but that's okay. The other thing about this is this movie is like very Oh clearly and forwardly set in New Jersey with the skyline of New York And all the many other great romantic comedies actually set in the city of New York looming over it. And it just like, you could feel the tax credits in real time. Like you just you know Netflix is building a new studio in New Jersey and you just could feel all the ways in which The money was not being spent on this movie, but being being funneled back to other stuff Most specifically in the production design of Jennifer Lopez's bedroom Which what in the anthropology AI was that? y paused and rewound to photograph and zoom in on this beds spread and you kind of and what's headboard This game was like it was not Nick's orange and blue. It was like a teal and like burnt orange. I just watched you rub your leg out of anxiety. That was amazing. Youre like you just you kind of just lost it there for a second, thinking about that headboard It was like, it was like plastic woven itemt they're trying to invoke, like what are they saying with this? Is that she's still living in her parents like seventies Glamour, like I don't think she's. But then there's like the bookshelf that they're trying to intimate that she's a reader, but It's an ugly bookshelf. It's definitely IKA. att least they haven't color coordinated the books. I was very, very upset by this And this to me just The level of the shortcuts and like the cost centers that are being moved around in real time on this, you can feel it. I absolutely don't care about those things as much in a movie like this. I'm not paying as close attention to them. It did feel like this was a movie that if this were nineteen ninety eight. It would be immaculate. It would be filmed by like you know, Vilma Zigmund and it would have like an extraordinary production design and costumes. Right. because the script is like, Not bad. Okay. It's not bad. Yeah. And the production is the direction is not bad. Like it is like But it is like it's areaming movie. L it has streaming's a streaming movie. I would say for the script and specifically like the CEO quality of her of of her work life is pretty underbaked. and I think in older in a nineteen ninety eight movie both because of like money and time spent on scripts and also I think because of our concept of girl bosses that it would be a bit more developed. It would make a little more sense, you know, E this was quite silly It was very silly. I think the movie has really helped by having a wildly over qualified supporting cast Edward James almost plays her father. Bradley Whitford plays Bret Goldstein's boss. Tony Hale plays the head of HR Jodie Whittaker, the British actress plays Goldstein's imprison sister. Right. And then the couout de Gras is my girl Betty Gilpin. Honest So good in the movie. A hundred miles an hour. That is absolutely amazing. She's having a great moment. She was just on Widows Bay a couple of weeks ago. She's I cited this on Letterbox I'm not afraid to say it. now. Pregnant Betty Gilpin wearing sweater vests was hotter to me than J LO in this movie. And J LO is on fire in this movie. It looks amazing in this movie. Ver silly movie But I was not mad that I watched this. A lot of times I fire up a movie like this and I get twenty minutes in and I'm like whyy did I even try? I was angry, just because I know not Like I know what it could to get championship in your life. No, no, no, no, no. it's just this is when you watch garbage versions of the thing that you like, your dislayays isn't good enough. I get it. And like and I can I can see. It's not good enough and you guys aren't really trying and And they were trying Bret Goldstein very good script, like pretty good. Yeah. Yeah the stuff around edges is not good It's not good enough. And they just they think that we'll accept them cutting corners. And I don't accept it. That's it. Before Eileen fell asleep, we did start doing the Jennifer Lopez Hall of Fame. We went through her movies while we were watching the movie. It's a really weird philmography. And it would make for an interesting episode of the show It's really hard to get to ten Isra really feel like. Let me get it off the top of my head. Selena. That was the first one Eileen said. She said, whereere thell is Selena? We're looking at the most popular on letterbox and Selena was like sixteen. Listen, Selena out of sight Those are the two best in my opinion. So madeade in Manhattan is like, has Ray Fines and is obviously set in Manhattan. This was what I said is number three as well. watched it recently it's like it made me feel bad inside. Like the who you're laughing at it why is kind of is very outdated. I didn't love it. Wedding planner? Wedding planner? Yes. Which I believe is set in San Francisco, but they like actually stage real weddings. So that's important Okay Sigli Be that in the Hall of Fame. Listen Well, pop culturally. Terrible culturally Okay. Hustlers. Yeah. But we jumped twenty years there. You're doing here. Thank you. All right. listen, there's one won't get Well, you don't know and What's the one that has become a meme of the movie poster? the movie poster is a mem where it's like Jennifer Lopez has had enough. The name of the movie is enough. Yeah That I mean' for mean potential. Okay enough is Poster but not Bad directed by Michael Apttad. Okay. Greatest love story ever told, which is the documentary of the making of. Thats some Dobin stuff, but okay Okay, you it is a fascinating document. spepeaking of fascinating documents, Jennifer Lope has half times. Okay talk about No when she cries about not winning a golden Gobe think about it once a week. Okay, but you other film. You want scripted. Okay. So what happened between I mean, Jenny on the block music video? Well, that would be a good. Sure Yeah, we could do that. Yeah. We were listeningenn Jenny from the block this week. we're listening a lot of N York rap in the this is week to celebrate the next. Okay, good. I introduced Alice DMX Big pun Fat Joe All the murder ink catalog. Okay shoot what else do we listen to? It was really, really inappropriate for her I can' remember keep going. The MX is pretty big in our house. You gott to listen to the edited versions. You just edited versions. Be yeet Knox has a book and anyway U DMX book? who is all about oures DMX and Mariah Carey, we learned from that book Okay, scripted Jennifer Lawrence performances after two thousand five I to give to the two that I'm thking of? Yeah. ne is Anaconda Oh, sure, which is her big action. Yes Bakout. Yeah. And then the other one that I didn't think you would get but is very important movie to me the second VD I ever received, which was a gift from Eileen when we were in high school the cells I don't know. I don't don't know what the cell is. No. The cell is a two thousand Por thriller. Oh this. going into the mind of a serial killer Sure It's a beautifully staged movie by Tarsum Sinch. and not like a perfect movie by any means, but It was a big film at the time. And then after that, I don't know, it's like Jersey Girl shhotgun wedding? Are you putting one of the ice age movies in there? You know' a shotun wedding not bad and better, I think in many ways. It went off as kind of similar to this to me where I was like, okay, but at least they went to some resort, you know, There's a great cameo at the end. I don't I don't want to spoil it for people Yeah. I mean, it's it's a little tricky. I love Oliver Stonees's U turn sure. She's playing kind of a cliche character, kind of a cliche fem fatale in that. but anyway Very weird haall of fame. We had a hard time W had a hard time. Selena and out of sight are so head and shoulders above everything else. They're just those are classics Okay, let let's pivot quickly. I just want to tell you about u The furious. Yes. So Friday afternoon, I went to the movies I had a big plan to try to go see the last digital circus and the Furious. I just didn't have time. I was too worn down from the weekend and we had the World Cup. We didn't talk about the World Cup Oh yeah. And the US winning for How amazing that was what a crazy. We got to do it. We got to do it again on Friday. It's noon game, but no school. Yes. Eileen would like to see it outdoor somewhere. I don't know how that's going to work, but o Mbe if we to find a place. We gott to talk about heat And or a projection or projector. Yeah. She wants to see it with people. Yeah, she wants to be in a public setting. How we How can we go to a big bar or a big outdoor gathering? At noon. At noon on Friday. Okay. Yeah. I'm gonna to investigate. So our agenda for after this podcast is number one, plan World Cup on Friday. N number two, plan our joint birthday party. Yes. you're spoiling that for the audience here. Yeah. you're all invited. The furious veryery quickly, I cannot recommend a movie more than this movie. Kenji Tanagaki is the filmmaker It's like a Pan Asian martial arts movie that I think I think might be an instant classic And I had heard really, really strong early worord, a couple of friends who really like fight movies. I told me to check this out. Shaye Serano, I know hosted a special early screening of this movie in Texas Um It's about, it's very similar to taken or to it actually is similar, hold your breath here to sound of freedom a bit because it's about child abduction and like a child Um child ring in I think it's Thailand. It's not really specified what country the movie takes place in, but there's a preamble where a journalist is investigating this child abduction ring and then she faces down these Butal child abductors and then it cuts to a mute Chinese man who has an eight year old daughter who is tra the man is trained All kinds of martial arts. He's played by Gi Mao and His daughter is abducted And then he has to go on a revenge to Lilliam Neson taken style to go get her back along the way he encounters a journalist who is the husband of the journalist who we see in the opening scenes of the movie. And it turns out this journalist is also a bad motherfucking martial artist And these two guys, the other guys played by Jo much like myself. The other guys play by Jo Taslan who is in the Mortal combat movies, who's been a bunch of martial arts movies over the last ten years, who's a sick martial artist And there's like four sequences in the movie that are just like Yes, these guys are beating the shit out of each other majestically. and I thought this movie was so fun, such a great audience movie people were cheering along. and then then late in the film, there's a moment where the screen It's a five way showdown There' five men facing each other And the screen cuts into a five way split screen was on their eyes. and like everybody just almost stood up and we was just like, yes Movies. It was so great. I had the best time with this movie. I highly recommend people check it out. You know, if you like the raid, it's like the raid without guns. It's not a gunie. It's just it's almost entirely a hand to hand combat movie with some crazy weapons that are used. Extraordinary use of ice in this movie that I've not seen before. Guys are getting hit in the head with bricks of concrete smashed over their head. It's very, very violent. It is not for kids, but I had a great time, so I wanted to give it just a quick moment on the show Okay What a weekend for you. I know, I know. It was really, really nice. Friday did that, picked up Alice. You guys came over US one, Saturday next one. And then you watched office romance and didn't care about the beds spread. No, and I didn't think about it once. Okay. let's go back to disisclosure day momentarily. So you mentioned Kicked up a bit of storm. Yeah in the world. You were seeing some reactions. I didn't talk to a ton of friends about the movie. I know you saw it a second time with your husband. They did and heard from a couple friends. And then also got asked by a lot of other friends like, oh, should I actually see it, you know, the civilians in my life? Yes. Thank you to them for going back to the movies. Yeah, but it was interesting to know what to say to them. because my answer is yes, of course. I think one friend was like, is it good? And I was like, I think so. But also, is it, you know We were careful on Friday's episode to be like, who's going to be divisive. Yeah, you know the word cookie within second Yeah and it is. it's real cooky. and even it was fun sitting next to Zach, my husband, watching it and being like, Hmm, I wonder how this is going to play. And what'd you think? And and he and my other friends Hi Maureen were like very much like I enjoyed it as a As a film, the filmmaking, the throw rightite of it all, impeccable. But they have some notes Well sure does anyone believe in aliens as much as Stehven Spielberg believes in aliens? I'm not sure. Yeah. Well we were very purposeful in talking about the movie And it's literalization of the ideas. Yeah. And I have spent a little bit of time thinking about maybe some of the more metaphorical readings you could put onto the movie or even just like the inspirations for where the story came from, because a lot of it is rooted in This is a guy who belieelves aliens exist. And he is fascinated by telling those stories and he's told them many times over the years about what their impact could be Um I think some people had a harder time with I think when you fairly characterizeed as a kind of Bomer mentality about possibility of things and that There is not just more cynicism among younger audiences, but like maybe just a general disinterest in that kind of phenomenon and being able to withstand some of the struggles of the movie, You know some of the dialogue, struggles of the movie, some of the characterization or lack thereof for some of the characters To me, it's so hard do these exercises with these late period films from these great filmmakers whose filmography I have a real wor in command of because I've spent so much time with their movies. But I think we had somewhat similar conversations about both the Irishmen and Killers of the F Moon where we were like, boy, these movies are really in conversation with. what fascinates these filmmakers and what defineed their work? I do this with Clinesewood a lot everyvery movie that he makes now, I'm like, this is riffing on so many of the themes that he has done over the years. We talked about it with Megalopolis and that was a movie that to me didn't rise creatively to, I think a lot of the thematic standards that he had set. But some people disagreed. Like we were on the more negative end of that movie, but there were some people who were like This is what it's all about. Somebody taking a swing like this. So it waxes and wanes for people If people were like, I hate this, I understand, but it does feel it it felt like the movie got in the discourse a little bit into the same zone as trap When that came out we were like, this is so fun This is Sean Lon having a b. but some people are like worst movie I've ever seen, bro. And I'm like worst movie you've ever seen. I mean, I think some of it is also, you know to your point This movie like escaped containment, which is good, right? Enough people saw it. Spielberg went beyond even Yeah, I mean, he's Steven Spielberg. It was a big deal when you podcasted with him, but there are the letterbox, you know, film devotees who have seen the movies, who understand what this means. This is like part of a conversation, part of a career And then there are just many people who are like, Hey, I went to see an alien movie and it wasn't very good, you know? And so I saw a lot of that. And you know, my response is always, please bore someone else with your opinions. It's good right that it is reaching a wider audience because that like Steelbergs like can still mix it up. Yeah. And and movies can still mix it up But yes, I agree that much of their response was like He, that fox didn't look real. That was stupid. Which by the way, the fox did not look real. It's not supposed to look real. Yeah It's a generation of a memory. That's true. It's not a real fox. It's an alien in disguise I be arguing that. But it is this true P people watching the moviees. I watched I did. Yes, it's true. but we talked about it afterwards. and I was just like, why did they have to look like that? even if they are meant to be a manifestation, you know of a memory? And then that brings in some interesting questions about the way the movie both certainly script wise, but even visually handle some of those flashbacks and some of the mythology around the two main characters, what is explained, what's not explained, what is implied.. you know, that I found on a second watch That's what didn't work for me. That's what I was still bumping on. I think all of the The religious and specifically the Christian undertones just seem Jammed on. And also extxtremely obvious at the same time. They both seem extraneous and also super literal in a way that I, you know, I understand this movie is trying to explore the nature of belief and faith. and U and taking a leap of faith It's, you know Some of it is, I suppose that all of those characters are just used for such obvious plot purposes And also because I never respond to like deep exploration of faith in general at point. I'm like I enjoyed that s. Yeah. But as a person who's kind of like working through a lot of those feelings in this stage of my life It's just There again, there is no mystery at the end of it. You know, they they have that the Eve Houston character call and say like, do you believe that God loves only us? And the non character very clear. She's like, it's fine. She's like, of course, there's more, nothing to worry about Yeah. There is still no room for for doubt or question in the script itself, which I understand is the point of the movie. The movie knows what it thinks. Yeah, a lot of people and I think were quite frustrated by or at least confused by the ending and where the movie chose to end itself, which I think is very intentional He's done this before. he's kind of like, you know, revisiting Munich was fascinating to watch the absolute like to just sit in the conflict of the moment and not have any resolution communicated to you Um, I think that that's a that's a dramatic strategy that older filmmakers are often more comfortable making many younger filmmakers who feel the need to explain everything all the time But I do understand that people were like, well, what would have happened Show me what would have happened. If there was this great incredible disclosure I want to see the next day, you know, that's the on the reatchables, it's the Z W No awward for what happens the nexte day. Like there is a desire to have to have a further exploration of that as opposed to the kind of intellectual and emotional catharsis that the movie is after and kind of pus us towards. For me, I haven't seen the film second time yet and I want to see it and if this was not next weekend I would have gone to see it a second time. Um, The things that didn't work for me the most as I think back on it are maybe have not come up as much in terms of complaints, but I just found the second act to be a little leaden I found almost everything between the Eve Houston character and the Josh O'Connor character to be really labored and unnatural, and it just felt like Dialogue not written for two humans. And whereas when the movie goes to Emily Blunt, every time it goes to EmilyA Blunt, I felt a jolt. likeike I was awoken and back and plunged back into the story. And so I can feel people you know, Yeah having some frustrations about the way that those characters are drawn. And I think that that is consistent of the the Eusson character. throughout and she just, you know, becomes plot machine and she is. She's a device.ike Are you near a computer? Yeah, you know, which is the thing that she asks the u So once you can kind of feel All the machines in place trying to push you towards somewhere. Yeah, So let me ask you about that because I was thinking about that too The movie is, I think, a bit self aware in its construction It opening with a wrestling event, the ultimate distraction in a world where you've got two divided sides, the red and the blue side and they're fighting each other and we're all distracted from what's really going on right over our heads, right? The movie does this a few times where it's like all the ways we are not looking. passast our nose at what's really going on. Is it possible that the Eve Houwson character being a device purposeful note because she is literally used as a device by the Coin Perth character in the film. Maybe I'm giving way too much credit to the screenwriter, but I thought that that was like There's a lot of readings that you could pour onto the movie like this Right. It's not it's a little rickety in some of its dialogue. And so is it meant to be more of this like u Marionette show. around sending its ideas home I don't know. I think because of the way it ends, which is both U so inconclusive and also incredibly conclusive. It's kind of funny to me people being like, well, what do you think happens? Like that's not what the movie is about and also the movie is very very, very clear about what exactly happens. Alien, that's what happens next It's an amazing scene. I saw it deleted. It's going be on the bllue ray Okay, so another things that I have seen it again. So it was not a segue, everyone. It was it was a adjusted I mean, it's a wheelchair of sorts. I mean, I think it's custom for sure.ure too the alien. And so the alien who you think put it together Matu Bazi personnel. So so he the alien is seated And also has like a screens that's sort of like a magicians screen over it. And presumably there's some like atmospheric issues, but also magian screen Yeah, you know where they put the magician up the screen over and then, you know, oh look, this person's cut in half. onnce you take the screen off real expert on magic. you know as you know, that's another thing that requires a belief a leap of faith that I' really invested in. So the alien is wheeled out and is in a seated position, but there is a mechanism that allows the alien to then kind of stand up. elevates its posterior sort of in a front way. They're called his legs. Well you don't know. Actually. You don't really know what the biology is because that's another thing that is not so close to us. But so by the end, the alien is in a sort of forward segue like position. This is me doing Jaing Bg tape breakdown. tall I do think that the alien is taller than the aliens we see in in the in the files. is. So she is She is again, we don't know. Stop imposing your Eth notions of gender. My gender normative ideas. And so I think the theory that the aliens just grow larger over time can stand Okay Yeah that has not been disproven in my second recording. Also it just looked like a blanket. It wasn't a cape So that's on the weekend in which Wemby the alien fell, this alien rose. It amazing Literally with the help of a machine. The other thing I wanted to say is that Courtney Grace is the name of the actress who plays the news anchor whoo the second time I saw it, I was equally blown away by. And I think You know What's so interesting is that I guess the literalism of the movie was a flaw to me or sometimes a little too much I on reewatch found tapes the creation of what they say so powerful and upsetting and like involving Not so much the reactions and what would happen in the world, but just, you know, what Steven Spielberg can do in terms of imagining and communicating not just the possibility of aliens, but How seeing the tapes would make you feel Yeah, it's such a it's such an elegantly edited Yeah fininal fifteen minutes. and I did want to say Sarah Broschar is the fully credited editor of this movie. This is the first movie that Michael Khahan is not the lead editor for a Spielberg film in. I don't even know how long. I don' I'm not sure what Khan's first movie with Spielberg was, but Kahann is ninety six now and he had been listed as the editor on all of his films in recent years, including up to the Fav Women's and Sarah Broscher was the assistant editor And so her work in the final in the end of that movie is really great. The other thing too that someone pointed out to me and this had not occurred me, but it seems fairly obvious is that another way to think about this movie is not about the divisiveness over religion or pololitics specifically, but as a post COVID allegory where something happened in our country and in our world that seemed It would have seemed if you had explained it to someone in twenty nineteen They would have said Oh, well, that's something that everyone could have rallied around. You know, that that's something that we if we're all under threat, then there would not be any divisiveness. But then when you look at what transpired between twenty twenty and twenty twenty three It sewed some of the greatest ranker between people that we've ever seen and that this is a movie too that seems to be really kind of trying to work through that anger and frustration and thinking, is there anything could potentially unite our interest and our empathy in the same way. and I thought that was smart Yeah. well, we were talking on on Friday's podcast about How our generation has not experienced any sort of communal moment of revelation, something that's like, okay, now We know this and the world has changed. or now this is happening and we're all watching it at the same time And I realized afterwards that actually january sixth, most people, it went on for a while and most people did turn it on and you were kind of watching it in real time. like is this happening? And then as we have learned, there has been absolutely no. ramifications or unity about like what happened or what we should do as a result of that. And Chris Ryan hass been podcasting out of those men shs And Aron Sorkin's making a new movie about it, which you know what? I just did not know that Aaron Sorkin had bots like that. came for you. Well they just they' just out here being like, this is a masterpiece. And listen trailer for the social record? Yeah, o. That's so strong take. I'm psyched for Earon Sirkin my guy., who has shaped me that he has finally managed to turn the internet to work for him. Congratulations. You think he paid for Bot to support the. I mean, there it was suspicious. That's all I'll say. Interesting. I didn't talk to very many people who were pumped about that we shall see. One last thing about this before we start talking Siberg in the twenty first century Do you think that a movie like this can be enjoyed in a sincere and uncomplicated way If you're not viewing it through the prism of his body of work If you're just If this is your thirteenth movie that you've ever seen previous twelve are from the despicable M franchise Do you Do you love this movie? Do youans, by the way, they're Manhattananss not Neroni', just for the re. That's what they're drinking. Yeah. I' be see the film this afternoon. Oh, how excing Um W my daughter not alone? Oh, that's cute. Yeah Let's see, soup And here's the thing watch that train sequence and not get like jacked up. I just I was so stressed out even the second time. How do you not watch all of the the alien footage at the end and not feel some sort of investment? You may think it's goofy at the end. And you know, the comparisons to the Coca Cola Christmas commercial are not unwarranted. So again, that's a memory. Yeah. And you love Coca Cola. Atlanta. I do. That's true Yeah, I don't understand. if you don't if you don't enjoy this then You like a different type of entertainment than movies. That's kind of where I am Yeah, I generally agree. But you know what, reasonable people can disagree. Reasonable people can and the other people can keep their opinions to themselves. twenty first century Spielberg. Now we've done all variation of Spielberg thing. I probably should have done a Spielberg draft at some point because we could have gone ape shit with that because there's so many different categories that you could have come up with, but Um Even in the conversations that we had where we ranked the movies with Joanna, where we did our top fiveives Because of our ages and because of the way that those films impacted us There' a real emphasis on P two thousands films Yeah because he's got ET Ch know you watched with your family this weekend? I just we watched the first forty five minutes and my sons were wrapped and I was almost crying like the entire time. It was so crazy. It's still so powerful I haven't watched it with Alice, but we did on the rewatch. We didn't watch anything sad happen yet. He was just kind of lonely and so was Elliot and I was like I mean,'s c. it's aautiful movie and And then you know, obvly, Jaws and clos encounters and Raiders of the Lost Arc and U Jurassic Park Schler's list in the same year, and saving Private Ryan. I mean, those are just like the tru tootemic movies that he made. but you know, he's got all these other films that are constantly being reassessed and re undernderstood like the color purple and Empire of the Sun and Um Always is a movie that Spielberg was prepping for when we spoke in March Um You can go on down the list. He made a ton of movies and that made a huge impact on our lives in the first thirty plus years of his career And a lot of the movies in the two thousands, especially between twenty and twenty ten, were big movies Big hits or big Oscar films I don't know that they have quite the same cultural longevity and impact the previous thirty years did. And then there's also this really interesting kind of lost decade between twenty eleven and twenty eighteen withith a couple of goodvies sprinkled in there, and then a couple of movies that I think are pretty widely Appreciated. And now he's in the kind of upswing come back. And said' made few movies here that people really like. We would say like the last three movies, well the last two and now Disclosure Day Disclosure Day is a huge box office success. Westide Story and The Fablemans were like very small movies critically acclaimed, depending on who you spoke to. Y. It's not like he, Stehven Spielberg, kind of the architect of American Buster. has been at the center of the conversation for the last fifteen years. So when you look at this slate of movies in this period of his career Are there any things that jump out to you about what some of his predilelections are, some of the things that he keeps circling back to or that he's interested in There is a phase where he starts I'm trying to break out of just the basic blockbuster genre box, right? And personersal seems, but to me they get more wider and systemic unless kind of here is one said little boy who wants to make an alien friend U and, you know, those are sprinkled in and I think that you can't get away from that when you're an artist of Spielberg's level, like he is always going back to his themes, but he starts writingling with history a bit more. I mean, you know, Schindler's list he did as well, but he keeps kind of there's a there's a history one then there is a technology one, then there is a He's the world is opening as opposed to kid in his room with cameras. I think that's right. I think it's fair to say that for the most part, the first half of his career is about the individual. and the second half of his career is about the collective body, the social And in a lot of ways, the political. I mean, it's a it's very political century of movies for him. evenven his busters in this century you know Mority Rort and War of the Worlds and even catch me if you can. These are very social movies. There's movies about kind of moving through time in history and the way that groups of people are reacting to the changes that are being offten sort of like impressed upon them and how you can break free from them Um I reatched a few of these movies. notot everything But there were a couple that I have felt like were're not blind spots, but we' not moves that I was racing out to go revisit Big revelation for me, N never a revelation The movie I'm most happy I returned to is Munich Um And I thought it was quite good when it was released. but I don't I thought I had maybe watched it since it was released. and I might even se some on a podcast. Ohh yeah, I just saw that recently, but I haven't. When I watched it on Friday, I was like, this is the first time I've seen this in twenty years And U the filmmaking. Yeah In that movie I don't know if he's ever been better The way that that movie is and lit and the way that the action takes place, the way how upsetting the violence is, the way that the character drama plays out. It's not even really my favorite cast. I think there's a bunch of in that movie that're all miscast. Well, I think I mean, the one issue with it is the central performance Aarana,, who is just miscast. And I when I rewatched it, 'cause you texted me and said you were watching it. it's like imagine Josh O'Connor in this part U just Absolutely would be lights out amazing. Yeah. I'm not I don't dislike Eric Bana, but he's just not the turmoil that he's asked to portray he doesn't really get there, but almost everything else in the film I found to be so astounding. And also the fact that You know, kick off this partnership with Tony Kushner, which I think is really important. That was one of the thing I wanted to mention to you about U But I think I texted you about Disclosure Day. And then I saw a couple of people share this on the internet this weekend too Is there a chance that Spielberg brought Disclosure Day as an idea to Kushner? And he said no And if he had accepted it he had been able to elevate the movie higher because Kushner and Spielberg have this amazing dialectic between them pushing and pulling against what they think are the right ways to explore Um violence and consequences Epathy and empathy kind of social good versus individual merit. Like there's all these tension points in all these movies that they do. There's this amazing oral history New York magazine of Spielberg Um It was published last week Bar Kushner talks at length about the ending of Westide story and how it wasn't the ending that he wanted and Spielberg pushed for the more the darker ending and This all starts in Munich this all starts with them having this kind of back and forth and Munich does not Land specifically by saying This is the path It's a series of arguments between people over tables about what is and is not right about this conflict between Israel and Palestine, about the consequences of Black September, about hundredundreds of years of struggle. and I thought that movie was Extraordinary watching it again. Yeah, the ideas and again The dialogue, the way those questions of ideology and morality and You know, and ultimately like, Is a person doing good or bad and what do you owe to yourself, to your family, to the idea of a country? What is the right answer? Yeah. beautifully written and then you just wish that you had a cast that was communicating. this scenes perfectly. But there is nuance and complication in Munich that It's there is not inisclosure dayay. Yeah And so the did he go to Kushner first is an interesting theory. and you wonder whether Kushner would have said no because does it doesn't speak to him. Like M maybe he's like me where it's just like, oh, aliens sure, you know, Rck on. But or or maybe or maybe This is a project where nuance was like not the point And I don't know. It's possible. I mean, Kushner obviously has done transcendence with Angels in America. Yeah. And this movie is in that zone. You know, like you mentioned all those religious textual aspects of disclosure day It is also pure sci fi.. It's hard sci fi. and Kushner's not done really very much like that. But I was like, oh, gosh, what does the Kushner screenplay of this story look like the treatment that Spielberer. I couldn't help but wonder about. The other thing that all All four of the Kushionner movies M of Spielberg's movies in this past decade are all Pury pieces. They're not in the present day. And that was another thing that stuck out to me as I was rewatching was like, oh There is just something, you age yourself a little bit when you're doing present day, you know, it's just hard not to make that seem A little corny. The only one that is present day is W the Worlds W War of the worlds and War of the World is a direct response to nine hundred eleven. And so he's trying to portray. And it doesn't give you a lot about like The technology, what's going on, N news in the world is happening. Like It's a family story that then turns into a huge explosive apocalyptic blockbuster. But you're right. and minority rep important and ready player one go into the future And the rest of those films go to the past. And it's a really, it's a good point because point that we've made about other filmmakers over the last five years or so in the show where a lot of them feel more comfortable some of these haallllowed filmmakers not having to deal with The technological components that make storytelling more complex in the twenty thousand twenties. E in disclosure dayay, there's a reliance on an old fashioned brand of media tell its story. People have their phones, but we're looking at broadcast news and I think that's just a function of being a sev nine year old filmmaker. you know someone who sees the world through that lens instead of through the lens of a twenty five year old you know, u, Gen Z Kid who's like What is broad what is the broadcast news? I've never seen that before. Right. I think there's just also At a certain point, if you're trying to understand the cururrent world but your references, you have more experience with a previous lived past. you know, it just it's There's no mediation in between like trying to recreate what you think about this world when you're recreating the exact world. And so that means that you have to make more choices and be a bit more specific and there's less room for interpretation Whereas you can bring it, if you set your ideas about the present day in whether it's seventies Europe or You know, the twenty fifty four. Is that minority report I think that's right There's more room for invention and then more room for asking questions. There's just no There's no room for questions a disclosure today, despite it literally ending with a question. Were there any surprises for you going back and looking at some of these movies? I really liked Munich as well despite, but then I remembered exactly why it was not in the Pantheon for me Uh You texted me about Bidgish buies, which I don't think I'd seen since it came out Banger, you know, J first half, especially just unbelievable. So good Let's see. I So I did minority report last week before and hadn't seen it in a while. And really good. I mean the creuise of it all my is is exhilarating, but I don't think I'd seen it since I had a kid. So that was also, you know That changes things. Yeah. Let's see, AI very a really, really underrated cruise performance because it's seen as a very like guy running through cities all day long It's a very physical movie. It's a very high tension action movie. but Really, really good He gets a really, really great performance out him. and that's when they're in there like We're locked in and we're going to work together for a really long time. And then it kind of falls apart because of two thousand five and the crews and the campaign and all that stuff that happened. and there's all this great. I read this fascinating interview with them I think it was Jir Spgel around promoting more of the worlds where Cruise is kind of going off and talking a lot about scientology and he's having this very confrontational interview and you can see Spielberg almost like shrinking into his chair. while cruis is kind of going off. But I did think a little bit about like kind of what could have been in terms of their partnership if that had not happened because they They're just two very energetic filmmakers, you know, and they really those movies are very alive. where the world's in minority. they really hold up in terms of like as pure entertainments.. The other thing I noticed You know, I texted you I did not remember that Coleman Domingo is the first person Who speaks in Lincoln. And then you pointed out that Eave Houston is a major part of Bridge of Spies. When I watched Bridge of Spies, I'd forgotten that Jesse Clemens was in it and then he shows up again in the post. you know, and just kind of the the giant cast of characters and just how many amazing actors Spielberg has worked with in his career, which is not surprising. He can anyone will say yes, but like he's got great taste. No he and he often locates people early on in their career as driver. That's one of Adam Driver's first performances in Lincoln. There are a number of people in Lincoln who that may You know, it's a very important Jeremy Strong role in Lincoln. likeike This is twenty twelve. It's not. this is way before succession he has always had a knack for that for identifying people really early in their careers and bringing them in And obviously, once you get into a Spelberg movie it does kind lay a path for you as an actor, but U he's he's a very, very insightful person. One of the great notes in that Spielberg oral history that I really enjoyed was Harrison Ford talked about going on a flight with Spielberg before they began filming Raiders of the Lost Arc. And they sat together in first class and they just went through the entire script for the entire flight, I think from New York to Los Angeles And he just went and talked about what he wanted to see from him in his performance. And Harrison Ford, who had already done two Star Wars movies by this point said, Steven Spielberg taught me how to be an actor. on that flight just as big a compliment as you can give to somebody, especially somebody who'sready a movie star by that point So Yeah,'s he's amazing with actors and he frequently gets great performances., you know, like Ariana D Bao is winning Academy Award for Westide Story. He hass directed a lot of Academy A awward winning performances, but a lot of really indelible ones Any thoughts about this kind of like saggy middle of this century. I mean, I'll just never forget how angry my father was after Warhorse just walked out of it furious. and this was when Knox Dobbins was like a regular at midtown art cinema in Atlanta. likeike everyone knew him And justust he would see a poster and yell at me. He didn't really like it. so you You said that you watched reatch Warhorse this morning. I couldn't go through it. I couldn't finish it. I started it But yeah, Crystal Skull Tinton Warhorse That's a tough road It is, it is.'m I'm I'm not and I'm not teeam Crystal Skull either. I I actually like Dialle of Destiny more than Crystal Skull. I thinkrystal Skull is kind of like and Crystal Skull There was also some news this weekend that or maybe maybe it came out before this, but I had not seen it before, but there was a lot of disagreement amongst Ford Spielberg and Lucas whether or not alien should be a part of that movie too. And the inclusion of that, it kind of rips the movie away from its classical Acheology text. Right. So that's why they just had to bring Archimedes back to life in a dream. No, that was it wasn't a dream. They went to was Yeah it was Archedes, right? 'causeuse the water displacement from the boat. Yeah, and you should have Syracuse Yeah. Yeah Okay Pheid N not Phe Briders, Phoe Wall Bridge is there. What if Phe Bridgers were there a better film. It mightight have been a better film. I know that would' have been hard for her Tinton, I didn't revisit. so Tintin and the BFG upstairs And I showed them to Alice and I said, whichich of these two do you want You mean from the ADUes library. Yeah.rought brought them up Well, I said, let's watch a movie on Saturday afternoon before the next game and those two movies up and I said you can watch these two or we can take out the movie poster And the movie poster is a gift was given her by her aunt. It's a hundred children's movies. There's an illustration of the children's movie, the title under it, but it's a scratch off So every time we watch one, we scratched it off. We counted it actually yesterday. We've now done fifty four of the one hundred films on this scratch off And I said, can either you can either choose the two movies that I brought upstairs or you can do a scratch off. She looked at the covers of the BFG and of Tintin. And she said, let's do a scratch off And so what did we end up watching Soot, I'm trying to we watch desespacable will M me. because we're obviously next months Yeah desespac will me off the poster and we watch that. Um And she liked it. and she laughed a lot. The miniions are fun they' Yeah they' Yeah Yeah.. she enjoyed grew as well Nevertheless, u Those two movies feel like real miscalculations to me. They're the only two mo Even Warhorse I have some time for and I find to be an interesting study of an animal Like it's it's not it's different. It's a unique try at something that doesn't really come together for me. It is one of my least favorite exper. A mean email from Ko Dobbins, if he ever listens to this Be he hates it so much.. Does he hate horses N not sure that he has much of a relationship to them, which might be part of the issue. Yo, there's so much horse content in Toy Story five Oh my god. Wow, she's a horse girl No spoilers. I thought you were going to say that Alice is gonna to be a horse girl, which like it's burgeoning. It's a. Yeah it'. But I loveved. I always wanted to be a horse girl. It was just not That' an expensive hobby. I also was afraid of horses, you know, I respect them They're powerful. Yeah, they are And I don't need to interact with that. If I can't control it, I don't want to be around it. Wh thir five, Wow I don't know what I'm gonna see that. Ton of bes, Holy cow But yeah, Tintin which is co directed with Peter Jackson. And I guess was like a lifelong fascination for them based on the, um The Dutch cartoonist who created Tintin There were a lot in France when I was there. exxactly home Belgi. Belgian,. Thank you so much.. Is it Eerve? What's his name? Let's see. I' getting this wrong. Aer. Aerg, thank you. Um I never had any interest in those characters. I didn't really know a lot about that world and watching the movie, I was like, whyy do you want to make this What was this about? Is this just to get involved in digital Animation was that appeal Very strange movie. I know it has its fans But yeah, that period is weird with the exception of Lcin and Bridge of Spies in the middle. Yeah, which are two of the best purie pieces he ever made And Lincoln, you know, I'm on the record I went on Tim Simon's show Second and Command if people haven't checked that out, which is a podcast that is about movies featuring presidents. Yes whichich is a very fun show. even on the that show. I did the American president. That's right I dibbsed that so fast. We got the text and I was like, American president. I think spepeaking of Aaron Sorkes. That's right. He keeps coming back. I think I did the same thing with Lincoln but it took me quite a long time to get in the studio with them. but You know I think Lincoln is a masterpiece. that's five star movie for me. Overlooked despite DDLinning best act. I enjoyed the part of I can't remember which rewatchables It was you, Chris and Bill And you you told the story that I've heard like eight times of you guys at u What's the E rustic? Yeah, you rustic like Lincoln's on. Now we will just be two men sitting in silence watching Lincoln together. And Bill was like, who wants to watch Lincoln? We were in a sports bar. there were ten televisions on and it was all sports except for the backright television, which was running TCM. and it was the final twenty minutes of Lincoln. And CR and I were having a nice time. I don't know we were doing to a movie or something. We went through a good beers Yeah, Lincoln was on and we justat quietly. We didn't speak to one another, and we just watched that final. Was it subtitled So you just it from memory. You do need the dialogue in Lincoln You do and yet you don't. if you've seen it enough times It has a visual has that final, amazing final sequence for all the men in their hats. and' this you know Lincoln's speech. Yes. the second ad doog. So so visually breathtaking. So we we didn't need the words. Okay. The words are valuable. donon't get me wrong What other movies? What other names should we mentioned? The terminal? Do you have any feelings about the terminal? I saw it once, a lot of jokes I think of it every time I'm traveling with my family via air So in that, you know, that what el do you think of when traveling by sea We haven't done that yet. but I think you think often of Megatron being buried at sea? No, I didn't transformer He was. I't Did you see It was an allillusion to Bin Laden? Okay, that's beautiful. Michael Bay, always. I don't know if the heart of if it was America. If it was, that's hysterical But if it wasn't, but it is, that's also hysterical. What what is he shot in the film of Megatron, the giant evil robot being carried by helicopters to the sea and it dropped. That's funnyn U The Transformers films are produced by Steven Siberg for the record. listen, he likes he likes to build things Did you see the onset photos of the new Superman movie that they' they're filming. Man of tomorrow. Man of tomorrow, and it's David Cornsweet and Nicholas H Holt as Lex Luther. And they just had some sort of fight, but Nicholas Holt asleex Luther is wearing what definitely looked like a transansformer. So to me, I mean it's not It's either Transformers or Buzz Lightear. He looks like Buzz Lightear. I was actually wondering if it is a t in and he is actually trying to be Buzz Light. It looks exactly like Buzz Lightar This This is real Superman canan and it's called the Wars suuit. M Great. Okaykay. This is the thing he wears. Yeah I think there's a I don't know when the wararsuit came into creation, but maybe Buzzly year was They maybe they saw the war suit and that's part of how they built Buzzlight year. Okay You never know what these things. All right. You're not happy about Nicholas Hold having to fight Sperman wearing a giant meca. No, I just even I thought, hey, that looks like Buzz Light yearar. And then you brought up Tformers and so yeah, that does but that has a transrformers vibe to it. Does it not? It does. Okay. Boys and their toys, you know? You don't have to tell me Spielberg is not immune to that have to tell me, a part of ET that really resonated with my children was when Elliot is making ET feel safe by showing him all of his toys, including his Star Wars toys, which are name checked. And then, you know, and Nx just like but, you know, or whoever it is, I don't remember. children do this. My boys do this all the time. Here's another toy that I have. Here's another toy that I have. I love that little Hubby area Elliot has where he plays and then later in the film when his older brother is like sleeping in that area when ET is apprehended They feel like the painful heart loss of ET. That's like God, that movie is I honestly don't know how we're gonna to watch the end of it or how I'm gonna make it. It's a real water workorks. It's instantaneous in the final forty minutes. Like I'm telling you twenty minutes in just watching Knox get invested in ET. I was like, oh my God. It's not nostalgia too. It still works on kids to this day. There's something really crazy about those movies A movie that we have not mentioned Hardly at all, is catch me if you can. Yeah, which is one of the most purely pleasurable movies. that he has made this century I know that it's two thousand two in this century, but to me, it's real old school Spielberg. It's from the last. I mean,, you know, it's the father and his son and putting on a show to try to to get the love back and you know like a period piece, there's a caper like they' pieacece elements to it like I, you know, it's not unlike Indiana Jones where he's just going through the world trying to get something. I love that movie. Yeah. it is fabulous. You're right on though. I think that's right, that it feels a bit more of the first era of Spielberg Um I would have liked him to have worked with Leo one more time Same, you think it's off the table I wonder if we can get him in that western. Okay. Oh yeah, he does like a Western. You think Leo likes horses? Do we know I mean, he was in the Quick and the dead. Yeah. He was in Jjango Unchained. Yes. So he's done the Western before. Right. But does he actually do any of the I don't believe he's on horseback. Yeah in either of those movies. I can't remember be honest. I can't I can't conjure it if he is. Yeah, Maybe he doesn't like them California. Yeah. H That was that was a a Let's look at the two thousand three Oscars because that was a performance where I was like That should be best actor and I'm sure he lost to some Halo genius that year. Was he even nominated? I think he was nominated two thousand three Oscars. I think that's the Chicago year not not that the year that Brody U, o Alph one, Frank Abignale. Yeah All time trickster huckster character terminal, the thing I wanted to note about the terminal is I did think Cashb ifiew Can was not even nominated for Best Picture. It was not, despite being a massive hit Massive hood Did't get any asks nominations? W walking nominated? Yes, Walkking was nominated. Yeah. Walk in and u and John William Wonderful score, obviously I the thing with the terminal is, I found the terminal to have a lot in common with Bridge of Spies because one thing that he gets this preoccupation with in a lot of these movies is othering of people by way of bureaucracy or like political psychosis. And Bridgis Spis is this really interesting movie about this moral pragmatist lawyer who is defending a Russian spy and the whole world hates him for defending this person who is you know A traitor to our country, working to sell secrets, you know, threatening the lives of American citizens And the terminal is a much kinder, softer version of that But it's a movie about a displaced person kind of trapped in this purgatory over these long periods this long period of time and trying to discover community and trying to get people to understand him and accept him This is the very thoughtful, kind movie about the immigrant experience and being out of place in the world It's not as like funny or dramatically successful as you want it to for it to work, and there's a reason why it's always been kind of near the bottom of a lot of the lists for his career But I think there's something It actually is sort of similar to me in terms like a disclosure dayay where I'm like, even if everything doesn't work I really liked going back to it when I did about three or four years ago because of the way that the things it made me think about that he's interested in. That's also thematically There is an alien. Yeah there's a lot. I mean this a lonely person trying to be to fit in and to find their community. It's in basically every movie. Yeah, I love that other segment from the Oral history where He talks about There's talk about him seeking Cunion seeking unity with like groups of guys to kind of like backfill some of his childhood loneliness. And that even to this day, like he is somebody who like gravitates towards his buddies. He talked on the rewatchables about painting models with Guermo and JJ and a lot of people receive that as revelation, but that's something that Spiberg has talked about publicly a few times. I was surprised. well, and Guermo talks about it. and he invoked it at the DJAs when we went to like we talked about it. Yeah. it's been out there in the world. But honestly, podcasting with Spiberg, I was like, that's how I feel. I totally relate to that and And you're right, that a lot of these movies are all about being lonely Yeah. And even if some of them have big social concern, like West Side Story has plenty of social concern in it about New York and about cities and about young identity and Um I don't know, it's a rich pallet of stuff. Yeah. withith a few stinkers, you know? I have always defended Ready Player One. I was at the South by Southwest premier of Ready Pler One and I liked a lot of it. and I thought it was an interesting movie about him trying to reckon with some of what he's responsible for in the culture. Yeah is flawed It's a goofy story. I never read the novel, but it's a goofy story. I don't love Tai Shherardin in the movie as the lead I agree. It's I mean, it's goofy and it's just not fun to watch in the way that I find some of the other movies fun to watch. It's not it's not wrong You know? Yeah. yeah, the point is the point is right, which is that it's I mean, and this was that was eight years ago that movie was made people are even more slipped inside of their own you know, online identities Um Do you want to have a fight about AI No, I would never want to fight about a movie that I think is beautiful, you know, that I think is a masterpiece. I rew watchatched it and it just straight up doesn't work for me I don't know what, you know, you gott to fix that hole in your heart. Okay. You got to get a N championship inside you. I don't know what to say. I just and it's not the sentimental part that doesn't work for me, which Spielberg has always said is the That's the Kubric and that his is the weird You know, you don knowt mean Carneies, man. Even futuristic Carneies. I love not. I just I do, but not like that I don't know what's going on there It doesn't match. It doesn't work for me. People pointed out that we did not have Spielberg on our twenty five or twenty five list I think one of the biggest reasons for that is It would be very pointed that out we We had a lot ofrou many times, especially in the aftermath of like you' podcasting with Spielberg. He wasn't on this list. Yeah. you know I straight up love ten of these movies that we've got on the list here And I'd like a couple more beyond that and too me AI is the big achievement That's the one that is different from all the other ones. That's the one with the biggest world. That's the one that preages every idea. That's the one where he fuses someone else's sensibility with his own That's the one where he is almost like actively rejecting what everyone expects his sensibility to be based on a movie like ET and saying that there is like darkness, there is hope and light at the end of that movie, but there's a lot of really, really difficult darkness in that movie, violence, terror It really prestages so much of what happened. in the world in the twenty first century But you don't like it. And so if you don't like it, it's really hard. So if we didn't do that, but we tried to put it on, what would have been the movie we would have agreed If you can, You you think so? Yeah. It just feels a little bit light relative to what his filmography has been this century, where he's making Munich and Lincoln and Movies are that are about confrontations with our national character or our personal morality. I'm not saying that we have to put catch me if you Can at number one here, but you were saying if for our twenty five for twenty five, which is our the movie that we can agree on from this filmography Fridge of Spries is great, but I don't know if we would pick it over be number one for me. Yeah. I liked it a lot and I was surprised by how much I liked it on the revisit just like you were But thisise to the Fablem'. I did too. you know. I think it's top five. So maybe we could have done that, but we didn't have the we didn't put anything after twenty twenty on the list. That would have been maybe the move. Yeah I mean, two kids of divorce, you know? Yeah. That would have been maybe the move I kept seeing that incredible image when Pul Dano Michelleilliams andeth Rogan are the audience in their cheering him on And the camera hold on Michelle Williams and we see Paul Dano come into the frame to kind of lean in to make a connection with Michelle Williams' character to say, like, did you see that? Can you believe that? How wonderful? And she completely ignores him. And then she turns and the camera moves and she makes the moment with Seth Rogan because that's who she loves and who she we don't know yet that she has connection with him Small, simple visual storytelling. There's a thousand examples of this stuff in the movies. I love him Um Yeah, it's great Do you want to put it number one? That's not how we do it. You want to start at the What's worse? ten ten or BFG Like, let's start there Crystal Skull, I't think Crystal Sull is the wor. rystal Skills watchable I didn't rewash Tintin or BFG because I didn't want to. So let's say, oh, Lucas, I see you're highlighting BFG in the dock. Is that your way of okay I think that would be my pit. I tried to watch it last night and I couldn't get through it. Yeah. Okaykay. that's fine. If There's just a miscalculation. with the way that the BFG looks And I've said before on the show, I was a roll doll kid. I read all the role doll novels, thinking about putting some of those in front of Alice soon Um, Matilda really helped me learn how to read And I magic. I agree Great film adaptation. also. Yeah, Dany video I And I've read the BFG. that was one of my books. Yeah, was that was one of the books in the doll stack that I had And I I thought that this was like just It misconceived from the start. I agree. So I'll say BFG there. That's fine. Th Tent ten. The tintin heads will come for you So did the Aaron Sircen head the A still here. I'm thriving Well, you're one of them though. they can't really take you down Yeah, you've got sorin in your DNA. I think I've made it very clear that I don't care done that. What's next? Is it Chry Chryistmal Sull? So It's not the terminal, right No. Crystal a crystal skull I guess Crystal Skull does have Many of our faves's kind of l scale. Sia. Yeah Hi Bray Winston Uh, I I wish I wish she had' done. It's the movie on here Iish she hadn't done Well then put it next because I can I can I can I can accept trying Tinton and saying like this is a this is the kind of movie I haven't made before Same with the BFG. This is like a technological component to it that you can see he has curiosity about. and I respect that if directors want to pursue that Crystal C just feels like a cach in. Like I don't really know what was left to do and say with that character for those guys. Nothing. and yet two more films have been made Let's put Crystal Skull at fifteen. Okay. There's seventeen movies total here. so we've got three War horse I think it's Warhorse. Yeah. I think Warhorse is fourteen You know, again, this and it's above crystal skull because youla forces I li likeked some of the gestures that worse Oh Okay, that's. That is going to be filmed at some point I'm trying to think if I've been on a horse I been on a horse. Did I ever tell you about when Zack and I went to like a friend's dad's ranch and Zack was just like, I know the story. On a horse with the cowboys, like rounding up cattle. And I was like, that is why I married Zack Baron I don't I'm trying to think if I've ever. but it's also l Do that. Like what is that about? I don't think I' had opportunity to be on a horse. I took some horse lessons because I wanted to be a horse girl, but there were a number of hurdles. includluding money and confidence. Yeah, That's a challenging hobby, like I said. Okay. War horse which is a very elegant film Sorry to Kox, senior Um I think The next movie is the Terminal on this list. Okay, which is not a bad film. It's a nice film And then ready player one at twelve I think so because there are things about Rady Player one I like. so I you put over a terminal Yeah. Some people would say Rady Pay one' the wor movies made this century. I don't really feel that way. I think there's some His conception of that world and the sensibility in the movie, I think is really smart. veryery amusing Mark Ryance's performance in that movie as well about some weird Steve Jobs, Bill Gates. Yeah, you know, Jeff Bezo's character. U Hm Okay. now the real work starts here. Be those are that's the dodgy six Yeah. That's the six that people don't have a huge relationship to The next eleven are more challenged Is it disclosure day I was going to say is it disisclosure day or is it the post, which I Very much in conversation. I like disisclose your dayay more because it gives me more to chew on. Yeah. The post is a good movie. It's not bad I like it I they're similarly old fashioned. They're similarly interested in an idea of revelation and what it can mean to. We' similarly invested in uh A handsome guy from the United Kingdom or thereabouts getting secrets out of I Not quite government but government facility I think it's the post. Okay What do you think about the post really We were podcasting then, but it fair So I rew watchatched it last week as well before we podasted. I really enjoyed it. I mean, some of it was just like, Oh, there's Tracy. Hi. Hello, Tacy and I forgotten that Carri's in it too. And so that's a nice moment It's I liked it a lot as a Meryl Street performance. and I think we maybe overlooked it when we were doing Merrill Street Pall of Fame because she's both doing The Merril but what that movie investigates about a woman of that age and that time period and trying to figure out what to do with.'s It's a very interesting and memorable performance I like it when people are talking in rooms, it's hard to be Ben Bradley on screen after Jason Robartts. Yeah, you know? It's a little bit of a Hanks problem. Yeah, whichich is weird, you know Yeah I love Hanks, obviously. but Yeah, it's not my favorite. I think good script It's Josh Singer and Lisannna. They were on the show actually for the movie. I I like it. I think it's it was a little bit trapped in the Trump Yeah, I was going to say anxiety wave of we got him, we don't have him. Yes. Y. And what can happen if we trust in our institutions and allow journalists to do their work.. whichich is an idea that I want to believe in and I if there are things that I have become cynical about is our ability to make that work matter as much as it used to Um So y'allll say I'll say the post then disclosure date to me, they're like tied because they're both Very impressively made movies that feel like they come from a different era Why don't we tie them They're time ten We can do that. think we're in charge. She should't have to be tied at eleven. that work. Is that how that works That is correct Well, okay, Not as cool to be tied at eleven as it is to be tied at ten, but you know what people Now the work begins. Why does it have to work that way Just every list I've ever seen goes with the number before The only place This is our podcast God damn it. It's t to ten. Be the only place you can't be tied is at one so if Two people can be tied at two, they can't be tied at one Yeah. So why can't this always goes up? can't tied to. You can tied of You can be tied it. Why can't be tidied too? I don't know. Am I wrong about this? Maybe I've never heard this happen' say. I think it was God God said you must be tithied at eleven when you guys are doing your Spielberg list. I'm the one who understands the language of the universe and you're the empathy one after the Ks, okay? So that's how that works. Okay We're still working through this. This has been very scientific so far. We have nine films left to go I think what is comoming next I mean, you know what I think, but there's no way I'ss. Okay, so what about W are the worlds Wow Okay, don't You know that I wride hard for Westide Story. We both ride hard for Fableman'. This is hard. Catch me if you can, minority report. you're not gonna to put those those are going to not. Yeah. And now I've I've been what about Bidge of Spies At nine You're not putting for guys over AI, that's insane. You really don't like Tom Higs I did like Tom. No, see, even the way that you just said that, that's your that's your lie. The problem with Bridge of Spies. Yeah is not Tom x's performance, it's that he's sixty five years old playing a father of an eight year old listen Magical things can happen. It It's a little odd. It's a little You know plenty of dads in their seventies and eighties. So does the rest of the world. Al Pacino De Niro Normal guys. Okay, guysu who've led normal lives. U What's Robert Deiro's arm sitting It actually be a lab father children in his seventies Zack Baron Yeah with other people? No, Zack M I honestly, there have been a couple times though when I'm texting Zach and Zach Low is a friend of the podcast and also shows up in my phone and I'm like, I'm about to send a grocery list to Zach Lo. I'm about to send I have a pict from our child to Zach Lo. I have multiple times texted I'm sorry in advance. Multiple times I've send Zack Low a text. It's like be there in fifteen minutes. this bar, right And he's like, what? I'm in New York. It's eleven PM Uh We're not putting A at nine, so just just settle down. I didn't say I said War of the worldorlds I brokered a piece Well Make me an offer. This is fucking hard. Make make me an offer I mean, War of the Worlds, your instincts are good there. No. They always are. They always are. Okay, War of the worldlds, what did I rate this on letter box? four and a half stars? I think it's Bridch of Spice I think it's pretty spies than wor Then I'll let you do AI at seven. I accept Is that a fair deal? I accept the terms. Bridges B. I think that's right. Really fun. It's really fun. Yeah. Yeah, Warld the worldld is really fun. I mean it's harrowing, sure and very challenging. But these are see, most of these movies for me are like F four and a half five star movies. L they're really in the upper echelon of films from this century which is why it's so crazy that we don't have him on our list. Okay, so we said Bridge of Spies, War of the Worlds, AI So you can haveide is so much better than Westide Story. It's so much better. Shit. Like Westide Story is really, really good and the filmaking is extraordinary, but it is a remake of Westide Story Which is a remake of Romeo and Juliet, which is just that we're all iterating onl Really You either go has this new choreography and these songs have been written for the show. Like it is not just a remake of Romeo and Juliet but thisvie is a straight up remake of another movie. But very different. It doesn't use the choreog. It takes liberties.anges it changes some of the aspects of the film, but like The set pieces of the movie Well, sureemor e moments of the movie. becausecause it's, you know, based in song What I'm doing is defending AI, not dissing a Westide story If you want to put West Side Story at seven. I can be right about that. You're say against you think AI should be below No no for the record to be one one hundred percent transparent. I've never seen the film AI. The only thing is I have a very strong relationship to West sideide story as you you fucking watch AI, bro I know. it's on We all gott to watch AI and get on that level I did And I will give it to you because it's your special day or your special year or whatever. That's fine. And I like don't want to have fights with the Kubrick people And like whatever, but Westide West Side story waslept on then, slept on. How don't you pick five for three If you give me AI at six. That's fine. I already said yes, you didn't even have to do that. That's not good negotiating. Westide story at seven AI at six That's I don't I don't think AI works, but that's fine. Okay Okay, so five, four, three. Here's what's on the board. Yeah. The Fableman's. Yeah Lincoln. Yeah Yeah. Catch me if you can. Yes, mininority report Bangang It's banger. Okay. So I think Munich at five I agree. Minority airport four What do you want to do Lincoln for? Noope minority report four. Minority report four Lincoln three I know. and I love what you and Chris Ryan have U and I look forward to to your alien podcast. And it was nice that you invited me to come along through there. But I know, but I learned all about the The wheelchair whatever the jacket that modified wheelchair and a blanket. Yeah. Well like you said, we don't know if the alien is a boy or girl. That's right. So we need to have both sides. mayaybe there's no gender in that race I think it's possible. I think that that is How do they procreate? like We don't know. like Aoeb the split where they or yeah I don't know. They haven't told us. You're the arbiter of Science Corner. Okay. Well, get it together. All I know is what Josh O'Connor liiberated from Wordex and showed me on network television. Yeah, whichich I still watch, like the rest of the world. Liberated from Wordex is an incredible hardcore band nameame. That's one of the best hardcore band names I've ever heard Okay, so three Lincoln Is Fabelman's number one? I think so. That's crazy.. It's our list and it's about how we got Steven Spielberg. We were talking last week about how Disclosure Day has like real killers of the Fower and moon vibe, but like here's the deal Fab Moments is actually his killors of the Flower Me becausecause it is continuations on a theme, it's origin story. It's incredibly moving It's about movies. I didn't rewatch it for this episode and I wish I had. I think it's obvious that Felman's and Disclosure Day are kind of working hand in hand that there's a movie about a young who's got all these dreams and ideas about the world and all he wants to is put them up there and his childhood trauma has informed his ability to do that. And Disclosure Day is also a movie about childhood trauma and your ability to go back to something it happen to you in an early time in your life and put something on screens. L they're the same movie They're the same movie and even though they're about totally different things God I love it when directors are able to They matically fuse The biography in like this and no one does it better than Spielberg I wish I had rewatched the Fableman's I had more feelings about this before putting it at number one on this list. Fuck. It's a little hard to Certify that. Do you want to change it? What What I like to propose? Again, you're doing great list making here. Yeah, you know. It's like you gott, you know, find it in the room. That's what we did. Well Okay. so when I saw the Fablems, it was different than when I saw we catch me a K in Theaters. When Iw catch me M a Ken in Theaters, I was like, whoa Chills the movies, Mority report too in theaters, Oh my God, chills the movies. You know, it's revealed that Max Von Sidau is the big bad of the whole story. I was like, Oh God, fuck movies. I love movies The Fabelman's I was like, this is an intellectual exercise. It's revealed that Max Mcito, it's like telegraphed within the first five minutes. And he's like, come home, come to my house. Okay It's not I mean a little bit.. You're not watching the movie that way. don't know what it's going be Max Foncido in that that point. Okay. u Yeahah fucking We both saw it at AFI. the AFI preremiere R. And his sisters were there, which is very sweetes. And We loved it. We walked out and we a scene with David Lynchon, you're just like, who. I know The party was at Motherwolf, but we didn't go. There was there's an amazing supercut of horizon shots from Spelberg's career. I got to find that if someone can find that andnd send that to us, like we'll repost it or something where he's just It goes horizon, horizon, horizon, horizon fifty movies in a row Um Okay, let's recap. Okay I think this is pretty good even though we're really audacious at the end here If you had asked me this a couple years ago I think minority report Lincoln and catch me if you can are battl So number one, assuming you're not letting me put AI there But so but the Fableman's. Okaykay, here we go. seventeen the BFG. sixteen the Adventures of Tintin, fifteen Indiana Jones in the Kingdom of the Crystal skkull fourteen Warhorse, thirteen the terminal twelve ready player one, eleven the post Hide Disclosure dayay at eleven. Nine Bridge of Spies, eight War of the Worlds Seven West Side Stories, six AI arrtificial intelligence, five Munich Four minority report three Lincoln to catch me if you can and won the Fablem's Good list And last. We did good. Any closing thoughts? Stehven Spoberg is very good at his job. So good. so good. Thank you to Steven Spberg for these movies. Thanks to our producer Jack Sanders for his work on today's episode. Thanks to Lucas Kavanaugh for his production support. Later this week If you can see it I can see it. We're just talking about tourory. I myself at like eight PM on Thursday I was supposed to go on a date with my husband Coast Is there' not like a two he really screwed me. Oh I guess I could go by myself and then go to the potook Can you do that? Movie iss only ninety minutes. Yes, Yes, I can is there going to be a two PM screening Soooyory fiveive showhowtimes. There we go. This is where we make the magic. magic. Yp, two PM. we got it Okay So then we will record on Friday morning Toy Story five episode. Yes And I'll see Robin Hood too, because we all know how I thrill to the story of Robinhood. over time Death of Robin Hood because that's the title of the film The deeath of Robin Hood. I've seen that film Yeah Toy Story five might to be a similarly long and involved podcast. Okay, great Hopefully for you. And if you come with a bad energy Don't ruin this next year. When have I ever come with a bad energy? No, when Thanks for watching, Go Ns. See you next week