Reflecting on the 2007 Draft

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We put up Sunday night Hand that rocks the crradle partart of from Hell mononth, the next one is going to be domestic. Disturbance with John Trabolta and Vince Vaugh. This movie is really something. It's not Netflix right now if you want to go Check it out. Don't forget our basketball and soccer coverage. I'm loving the World Cup. The World Cup's been fantastic. Cck out the beautiful pod with Adam Friedan And Chris Ryan has been popping on there a bunch. We've had a whole bunch of fun guests. that's on Adams. Fed, ringer gambling show as well, a lot of good gamling tips. I'm going to have the bundo on, I think at the end of the week to talk even even more soccer, tryry to get some tips before we have this amazing USA game on on Friday. Can't wait for that. All right Rivers, he came here for a game or didn't come here, but we did a podcast together after game one. have not talked to him since the finals Just a lot of big historical stuff coming from that finals, a lot of strategy stuff. We had to talk Yanis, what we think is going to happen this summer with all different teams Favorite players, refs, all kinds of things from his last season with the Bucks. And and he came over, which was great So we're going to take a break curl jam and then In the house, Doc Rivers next. This episode of the Bill Smon' podcast is presented by PayPal clutch move and you see one, a no look pass, a buzzer beater, big steel. Well, imagine if you're wallet pull off moves like that. my friends is PayPal. Right now you can find offers from hundreds of brands like Sony birds and Vioter and save offers before you check out earn unlimited rewards. Plus you can add those rewards on top of credit card points Now that is clutch. Download the PayPal app today. Save those offers, start scoring rewards. Terms and exclusions apply. See payPal d. com slash rewards terms, credit card points subject to issuers terms and conditions All right, Doc Rivers is here in studio. We've never This is great. Look at that. nice. This got posters, people you played with in the jam session. Yeah, I see Austin Car up here, which I was telling my son, Austin Rivers was named afterth. played my uncle, Jim Brok Did you have a Nike poster or no? Cos. No I had aoster.oster. That's what it was. Yeah. yeah. I gotta get that. Maybe I gotta hunt that. I have to put you out again. We have so much to talk about, but let's do finals because you never talked about that. So who picture Levitating over everybody. What'd you think? Like, what was your big takeaway from that series? I wanted more was the first take, you know It was interesting Bill. I played for the Kicks. And I play for the Spurs And so I caught myself going back and forth, you know, You know, I was a nick longer, so probably lean more that way. R. You know, but I just wanted more basketball and it got to the point My son Spencer said it because he was chim for the Spurs because where he when he grew up, he was living in San Antonio. Right. So he's cheiming for the sppurs and he says, I don't want any more basketball And I's like, what? it's like I can't take them'm doing the same thing Every game. Karaoke getting out to a league Losing the lead. Here comes Brunon. H it comes down the stretch of the game. Yeah. Let's take a snapshot of the whole series There was a lot of interesting things that happened to me. Obviously U, you know, the windb be turnover U the pass right Game to game two But I thought where the game in the series changed was after game three Ather U Sanonio S Antonio one and Mike Brown walked in The media room and complain about files. H And I thought U I didn't think it at the time I thought it was a brilliant thing to do. I don't think That's why he was doing it and maybe he was. But if you look from that point on So It was called against him. Bronsson Uh, like gam game five, he had eighteen free throws. Right. Comeback game And I talked about this with you whereere everybody missed, in my opinion, it wasn't even talked about Uh was Castle got in foul trouble right before the second quarter. they had to take him out. That's when Brunon got cooking. Yeah. He picks up his fourth two or three minutes into the third quarter. It was two minutes in. Yeah. So now he's off the floor again. comes back in, picks up his fifth So Brusson That h twenty nine point stretch did it without having to deal with Castle Yeah. and I thought That was huge. for the Nicks and for Brunson Um and well then it felt like it affected Castle in game five. It was bad in game five. Its like he lost his moojo. Yeah, and defensively You know, all series against Oklahoma against everybody. You've been able to be physical and been up And now he was thinking about it. You could see. he was worried about it. You look at those last two drives by Brunson they hadn't done that all series. Yeah. They wasn't going to let them do it. They weren't going to let them just go down the lane because they were more physical on them but they were concerned about files. whereere I thought You know, you always go, well, well, what could Midget done And listen, if I was coaching this firstse, I wouldn't have thought of this either at the time because it wouldn't been on my mind. We just want a game. T But If you watch the series Who was filed the most Brunson. or Windy Wy Yeah, probablyrobably W be at least even, right But no one said anything about it You know, and the difference was Wimby was filed more off the ball Every time he cut, every time he moved I mean, they were they were aformming them. they were hitting them. even the alleged U flagrant fl Wimby really was just pushing down on Brunson. Yeah. He was pushing out on him because Brunson was grabbing his jersey and he turned around. it was like Get off of me, you know, so it looked bettertered and worse than what it really was. All right. So But I really thought that's where that series changed. And then San Antonio's inability We talked about this in game one, I think. if it came down to a one minute game then that you're going win Yeah, even in game five, when it got to eighty three, eighty three, it's like Yeah, this is and nothing San Antonio really could have done about it because The Kicks know exactly who they are. Yeah the last five minutes of a gang They know exactly what they're running Uh they know exactly where who they're running it through with Brunon U they may change the guy who sets a pick. They use the Town's in the parking lot U because now you just taken the center guarding him oututside the pain. I like that phrase. talking about. Yeah. and so now you're left if you go, you're leaving a great three point shooter. Yeah. So I thought every game in those five games the last four or five minutes It was this veteran team that also had a closer Yeah. you remember Huby Brown, I remember when I was first start coaching and That was one of the things he told me. He's like, if you don't have a closer dock I don't care how good your team is. said it's just like a company. Yeah. You don't have a closure in your company that can close the deal, you are going to lose the deal And that's what it felt like. now Well, ironically, the closer for San Antonio was Harper. Yeah and they didn't Yeah, but they didn't want to admit yet and he probably wasn't one hundred percent ready. Yeah. he wasn't ready for, even though they use them more in game five. He had a couple big pls down the side. missed the layu Yeah. You missed layup though U But Fox has been a great closer Fox has been in a top five of closers over the last four or five years. But confidence though I don't know if he lost he definitely lost something. I thought he lost his health first And then confidence second. there wasn't the explosiveness getting into the basket in the same way. No then that H getting the basket then allows him to do that little turnaround eight foot shot that he's great at. Well, all plays off eachself. You didn't hear one time Uh, Mike Breen or Lgs or any of them say Fox is the fastest guy in the NBA That's something you hear right. Oh That's where it was two years ago. You't You didn't hear it one time. And you know, maybe the sprained ankle had some impact on them. It definitely had on the shooting I thought what Mitch Ran was terrific. They got that shot. U even in the game five. he came off that little we call it shhake spepecial is the play that I run. It's a secondary second pick and row Wy DHO's the guard comes off Fox got to his bread basasket. I mean, the right where he wanted And he wentn't close, R. L And then he had the wide open three So I never thought his shots were going in when it mattered, which is the back way get It got that Yeah that's not going. Yeah. It really did get to that point whereereas OG, every shot I thought was going in. Yeah. even if I see that cour it's still going in. Even the best shots. O you thought were going in It's amazing what a series can do You know, but for Mitch That's a coach in a tough spot Youve had a you had this closer. been reliable been reliable for you. Yeah in game seven in Oklahoma He made every shot So You don't go away from it You know, you keep going to it and and give m credit, he did It just kept coming up snake eyes. I mean over and over again You know and Whippy' is going to learn a lot. you'll learn a lot from this series. Someone was was talking the difference between him and Jabar. And I said, well, Jabar was still in college that age. R. Dave is a senior Wimby L. Yeah. and Wimby's in the game seven of NBA finals So let's give him a gray sppirit Do you think it's a real issue that he can't seem to play more than thirty minutes Well, I think he was he's like staggering around in these games. he guys forty plus. But I think there's a lead problem as much as a wimby problem. I think what the League does more is we we give these minutes all year without the thought of ramping guys up as the playoffs gets closer and closer You know who didn't do that was Tibbs? No. Tibbs rumamped up from the start. And by the way, it maybe I had a good email from a milback pot I did the other day about Tips kind of condition these guys to go these big minutes and carry these big loads. Yeah. It's not it wasn't something that they didn't expect. Yeah didn't want. let me say this players want to play Players don't actually want to sit Where's a toe to sit And then they are now in this culture where they accept what trainers are telling them I came from the culture you wasn't listening to the trainer You know, we told the trainer Like if the if I came to a game and Joel two was my turner with the Atlanta Hawks Yeah Joe say, Hey Doc, I think you should sit I would say, get out of here I That was it. That was the conversation. There was no more. But think about how much you were making in the haawks compared to what these guys make now. These are like these Yeah, L at fifty million dollars. Look at me wal mo You should have listen to Joe. S shouldould have listened to Joe more. That's a fact. I do think they are more careful because not only are they paying a ton of money for the best players, If something goes wrong with one of the best players, you almost, you don't have an out Like look at you with Yonis a shit. like but you don't end your season single handedly that didn't play That's because we didn't have a second guy. Right, You know, team But most teams don't. Most teams do You know, if Brunson went out, they still have toowns and other guys, you know, But you're not going to win it. No. you're not going to win it. If your best guy is out of the playoffs You may make a run. We made a run in in zero nine But you're not winning it. and where it always comes up when you have a guy out. It's not game one through five if you can get there It's game six and seven. Those are the games that are almost unwinnable for What happened Oklahoma City? Yeah, because they didn't have that extra guy. It was obvious Um, The the Wimby part of this So youd think like He doesn't have the signature shot yet. Not yet He's now going. I love the shot he missed. In game two, which one? The one at the elbow That was a pick and row pop right to the elbow. That's his that's his Brit back. Yeah. wonder like what are his spots going to be because thats will be one for sure. Yeah like top of the fou line because it sound it seems like he has a lot of trouble getting to the block. like Karem would He would do that weird. where he would kind of back in and take these little weird steps and then all of a sudden he was in spot Ca got to his spot and then the jump hook. I mean, there's a sky hook No one's ever going to have that shot. If women can develop a sky hook, the game's over for everybody. How about can we get a jump hook? You know mean everybody in the league has to jump up. So I I was on the phone with about four or five coaches. Yeah. Day before yesterday And we were just talking about the game Right And what would each guy do with Mi One of the guys said, You know everybody's home at the back to the basket The only thing with back to the basket is yeah, we a thr it to you and they're going to trap you And then you have to give it up And he said, no one is talking about Jack Sigma And he's like, what if Wimy just faceed Sigma? What if he face you And If you don't What can you do? Well, that was the old Tim Duncan. Yeah. J face sh feet from the basket and just shoot it. Like on the post, turn face Shoot it. If they come up on you, put it on the floor You know I think that's a move he will have to develop. I remember sitting with Pop And watching Windby practice is rookie year because I was doing TV And been us two months here for those two months. and I actually said it and Pob's like, than you I said Why is he fading Well, that was the Will Chamberlain Pm. Yeah just go up and shoot. right. No are you going backward? Yeah, no one's going to block your shot. And alsoso he's a great free throw shoot. R. So that's the difference. He can really shoot the ball And it's a balance issue at times for him. You could see he's off balance a lot Now, that may be strength U that may be balance and fatigue Infity. Yeah. Yeah, K So KG had he had the little turnaround Yes near the baseline, But then I always liked when he faced up Oh and he would do like the stutter step stop and he encounters everything. Yeah, when when that face great great guy for u Wimby to work, but they have the same type of intensity. Right. he's like a much taller Wimby Yeah K G's workouts were amazing. I mean He should put these shoes on the floor, which as a coach I had never seen. Yeah, We use cones. He would actually put two shoes and make them face like the player because he said I want to attack the feet. So he would just he would stand there and he moved the shoes over and attack that. Then he put the two shoes over and attack that. It was genius. So he would always look at the feet over anything else. Yeah, he wanted to attack the feet. And thing. He would teach guys if he saw one foot just turn, say he's dead He knew exactly what he was going to attack. So he was pretty impressed. I remember there was the Dave de Buser thing where He always looked at the guy's eyes Yeah And he went he said everybody who is about to shoot looks at the rim no matter what they're doing. eventually they're going to look at the rim. Well they have to. And that's what I know. And he was like The only guy who never did it was Earl Monroe All of a sudden he was shooting and it was like, you were looking over there. How did you even That's pretty impressive. But he said that was the only one. he was like, I always followed the eyes. That's why he was so defensively. So KG's looking at the feet. He just look he's got the ball looking at he squares up and he looks at your feet. Yeah, even if Lndby had the Tim Duncan face up, KG kind of stter step stop and he's shooting over you. And then just like a seven foot jump hook. Yeah, but's two more shots than he has now. Yeah, but just the face up to me is because you can't double team him. He sees you coming. to pick you apart. you know, and I think that's one thing they'll do in the end and then more work at the elbows because I thought he was very efficient there most of the season And it just seemed like they got away from it. But I felt the physicality and the fatigue played a major factor. Yeah. they were doing a bunch of stuff with him too. like Uh on boxouts, they were like raming him in the back. They hit him every chance they got. You have to. The other thing they did that Oklahoma didn't do, they attack Wimby. Yeah, all three the playffs, noew one attacked Wimby. they played away from Wby Nicks we're going right after you.. We're going to attack you. We're going to make you followl us. We're going to make you move your feet. I thought that was a great gameplay. And it felt like Brunson kind of figured him out as the series went along a little bit because he really torched him. A couple pres when you look at Brnson versus Wimby And Brunon like eighteen inch different. Brusson is figuring anything out. Like, you know, it's it's unbelievable. Brunon, I tell you, man uh every time you watch them you get more and more impressed with them. U I think you still watch him waiting for him not to be able to do what he does You know, I think the whole league for two years or Well he can't keep doing this. he can't And he can is who he is. He almost feel like he's like a Heatchck guy. Yeah. all game. You know, and didn likey today, you know, the forty five and comeing he scored half teams points Like he willed again for the New York Kicks to win a worldor Championship. Yeah, so I did a pot on Monday and I was you know my book of basketball where I ranked everybody. And the big thing for the rankings wereere you the best guy in a title team? Did you? Read the alpha? didid you take a take a team to the prromised land, which I just think is a different level of basketball. It is. So I had I put Brunson. I put him a bunch. I changed my list I put them forty one and I put them ahead of guys like Nash and Kid and Luca and I'm like This is the whole point of basketball is to be the best guy in a title team and to do the stuff that he did and game one of the Cleveland series throughout the finals, especially game five, which I think is In the running for one of the best finals games played this century Yeah. So you know, he's never been a first him on being a guy, but I feel like he has to be treated that way. I think he will be. You know. It's almost like the voters didn't believe either You know, I didn't vot for him. I voted for seconde team. Yeah, they don't believe, even though his teams record is great. He keeps doing the same thing. twenty nine points a game and four playoffs now. Yeah. This is a four year stretch where those are Say stats, those are Kobe stats over everybody O than Michael. are all the other great player stats. R. The other thing, I keep saying it and I'm going to say it until the cows, you know, whatever that come in or whatever they're supposed to do Um We don't evaluate what a great player is right in my opinion I was so excited to talk to you aboutes. because Winning and leading P of that And if you can't do that then really all you're doing is playing your game And you're putting up stats Yes, you know, you know, I got to play my game. Well Winners play their game U, and they give room for everybody else on their team to play their game And they encourage. they do all the things that are required. Right. moreore than just score thirty points You know, they leave, they push You know, Michael Gush pushed his teammates, but he also trusted You know, two of the games, two of the series they won came off on Michael Jordan passass. You know, he was willing to make the right play was a assist the game in the ninety one finals. Exactly. So he was willing to make the right play at the right time and Brunon led their team an NBA title. He didn't just play his team. to an NBA title. Well that's part of the problem. And I was really interested to see how people would react when I was like, this is where Brunson is now. Yeah. This is my system. I did this when Duayne Wade w one in zero six when Walton won in seventy seven likeike if you do this once That's more important than what you did for fifteen years if if You know, you made some conference finals and that's it. is the whole point of playing basketball becausecause basketball's not boxing. It's a team game. Yeah. and you have to win U to be considered great player. Well' think about there what Paul Pierce zero eight meant. Yeah. They' beating the bronze straight up and all There are some guys that never had talent around them It's a small pool. Well, I always use Barlay as the example Like to me, I don't hold no title against Barlay because I feel like in ninety three He was he went against the best part of all time at the peak of his pers And telling around him until they got to Poenix. Right And Kevin Johnson let him down the first half of that final. Then he had a chance, but they no offense. there' playenty of bulls win in that series in any way or form. They were just not. You know, the bulls were a better team. I thought the Kicks were the better team that year really. you want me to be honest. I was on the NX and yeah, I that that still bothers me. you know Lost to the buolves. We're up too old And then Pull Jordan put the D Nico on you in game three, right or game four. game three the media. And I I I like this. I don't know if we've talked about it Game three. What happened with the media? It was I want to say a three or four day break. Yeah between game two and three, which allowed them to kind of captured themselves a little bit. But more importantly, the media beat up Jordan every day because they saw that he was at a casino. Right. And for four days or three days or whatever it was Michael Jordan is sitt at home Hearing that he let his team down doesn't care anymore. what's wrong with des Gambling. Yeah you know And Jordan happen from that point on That's one of the toughest things with evaluating. So I look at that next team And it basically comes down to that the Charles Smith sequence, right And you could blame Okay, Charles Smith should discord Maybe you should have had a slightly better poorter than Charles Smith, likeike et cetera, et cetera. or you go the other way and go This is why the bulls are so great They protected rim and they had no center out there and those guys were so great in the moment. That's what made that seemam so special. That's the difference. Like it's not that Charles Smith missed the three layups I lost BJ. Amstrong late in the game and he got a three. You know, it's a play we worked on all the time that you had to you know, block out but not get sealed And I and I had to block out. I think it was Horace Grant and as I was blocking him out, I got too low and now he seals me in that I couldn't get back on the ball swing and BJ makes a three Um, I think we missed two Technical file free throws in that game always took I was the best Freeito shooter Yeah on a team I think I played I'm going to go look now that I'm thinking about it. I think I played thirty eight minutes or thirty seven minutes texts were in the time and I was out of the gang. And so Whoever shot him missed him Um So it was all it was like ten little tiny things. Yeah, as always. And Michael Jordan. But at the end of the day Who is our second best player I'm not sure. Starks was by the way he played, but he wasn't really the second best player every night. Um, where, you know, they had hippen U you know, it was clear who their second best. So they them was one of the seven best guys in the leue. Exactly. So when you make that case, it's hard to say that you would have won, but I think we would have. We had a chance. I mean, San Antonio was a little like that too, right? Whike who is their second best player? Well it was Fox all year It might have been Harper, but that's I got theit by game seven by game. Game five game three It was Fox Yeah something with Fox, I mean, it was Harper, something with Harper that He would make a mistake and come out and go back in So you know, there's a des not added. You don't know a player until you coach a player. There's something that he was doing that made him come out at times. And I couldn't figure it out Interesting. Yeah So he's a twenty year old point guard. Yeah, that's part of it. You were a point guard. Yeah Um And he's like me too because Uh a hundred times better to me U Yeah really I wasn in a point guard in college. Yeah. I just led the team in assists. Yeah. And then when I got drafted, I remember my first conversation with Mike Pell. said, you're going to be the point guard attlinea Hawks And I'm like, okay figure it out. Its like Dennis Johnson., exactly. But we didn't have in the eighties, we didn't have some traditional point guards, like the way people think of them. Well that guys would bring up the ball run the. Isaiah was a Th then you would have the Isaiah John Lucas, M the Archibald types, man. Magic wasn't traditional. Yeah, but it was a pure point guard. Yeah, you know So yeah, I think Harper is that and probably didn't execute things properly all the time, you know,, but he'll learn all that. I mean, he is spepecial. He's a special basketball player and he will be their second best player. Like I was trying to think of him in the context of when like Kate came into the weeague or Chris Paul You feel like that where you knew right away. I feel like that with him. Yeah, Harper. Yeah, but they're completely different. tootally Harper' a score Yeah. He's a scoring point U It reminded me more of Rod Strickland with is finishing. Oo. I mean, he he canish Harper finishes at angles, you know, I think it was game five, the one where he was under the basket and reverse. Yeah. come on. I couldn't have made that in the gym by myself. I could have tried that shot ten times and I'm missing it all ten times. He's doing it in the NBA finals with ease You know, it was amazing And now it's time for cross the eras brought to you by New Eera, the official cap of the NBA So we just had the finals and as always, I thought a lot about history and the areeras intersecting And some of the greatest matchups we've seen throughout history. The newew era MBA Hwood Classics collollection brates these legendary teams and eras and moments so time to put the finals match up side by side classic pass Got it about Reggie Miller here? like You think about new era. Plers at brridge eighties, nineties, two thousands, Reim Miller drafted in the eighties really starts to hit it in the nineties first They're I think it was ninety one He's in the Larry Bird's last great moment, the ninety one Boston andanna fin first round And then we go through now he has the K battles and ninety four and ninety five and then you go to ninety nine U they get they' heartbroken by OJs Um Pay two thousand, they make the finals And it really feels like Reggie' going to finally get there and win it and then Sadly for him, Kobe ascends And then not to mention in ' ninety eight, they came the closest out of anyone to beating Jordan's Bulls So he intersects with But Jordan U Koby Shaack and then you go into the two thousands and he has one last run like they almost beat the nets Um, He's not involved in the Artest meelee, but he's on that team He just saw a lot of things man and the best the sports totally different by the time time he's he's leaving there in the mid two thousands because this three point shot that he was special at Um, Now it's about to come back in a big way because Steph Cry is about to join the NBA and the league and the geometry league is about the change. So Reggie Miller is a good one. eighties all the way through the mid two thousands and boom, sports changing. relive vintage logos and timeless icons with the NBA I'm sorry with the new era NBA Hardwood Classics collllection available in a wide range of silhouettes including the iconic fitted fifty nine hundred fifty orr adjustables like the nine hundred forty of frame in nine hundred seventy and some great Harbard classics apparel as well. Visit new eracaap. com to shop now Use one time code Ringer twenty percent off your first order This episode is brought to you by Holiday In by IHG If I'm ever traveling for work Where I stay is so important I actually really care about this because sometimes I even have to do a podcast and wherever I'm staying In general, I don't go on the road that much, but when I go on the road I like to be in a nice hotel with a nice room. I'm spoiled If you sound like me Check out holiday in It has a whole new energy, especially for business travelers. You'll see it everywhere from refreshed rooms to reimagined social spaces Dining done right New drinks. Dishes for business, there are flexible spaces that work for the way. You were It's a new day and a new stay at Holiday Inn ot com Somewhere out there is a Chevy truck person who drives it It's a Chevy person. srobably no one, your buddy, your sister, ones who always show up, They're the first to rise, the last to leave. They always have that little extra something, and maybe you've got it too Chevrolet, togetherether let's drive. Visit Chevy d. com slash trucks to explore the lineup So you talk about like to little differences between teams. Like so I went to the Bird Dominate game, which you were great and you got You got a standing when you foulled out. Yeah. that was cool. the crowd wasci to you. That was the breaking point for me with Boston That was it. You were like I like these people. Yeah. I hated Boston. Yeah when I we appreciated it. Yeah. And that changed my entire Mindset of Boston. I love these people. Th people were pretty cool. Well, so Dominique at one point, he's number two in MVP Yeah Th One of the five or six best players in the league for five years. and that's like his moment to either a send or not as send, right? And birds like just a whiff better than him. Yeah, partly because Dominiqu I wouldn't say was the strongest defender, right? And you didn't have that Maybe if you're doing it now different guys at Bird. We call it he was an occasionally great defender. sporadic. Yeah. I remember Fertella saying that occasionally Dinick is the greatest defender in the league. Right. We just need that to be more. Well, but I think but he has a score But he's a well, that's the thing. He's carrying a lot offensively and he comes so and that's the closest he ever comes, right And then you go back to the Lakers who end up taking wororthy over him. Yeah And wherethy ends up in all these games ofoney and he's big game James and he has the big game seven and eighty eight. and dominates on this other team where he has a much bigger burden. and if you flip them You don't know You don't know, but I Yeah. I mean, Trisha McGrady made that comment like that if I was on the Lakers, I would have and I said no You just don't But think about Dominque on the showowtime Lakers Yeah That might have been like pretty spectacular. It have been fun Yeah for sure. But he also wouldn't have been able to guard bird in the finals. like I don't know what you know, But it been interesting. I love doing that. like if such and such was here would he had won as much or one less or one more. Yeah. I think it's hard to say Like Tom Chambers is another one. Yes. who is really good. It's like if he had just been on the Lakers instead of wororthy Would we be talking about him reverentially as one of the best forwards in the helps. I mean, magic was again, the reason magic I struggle taking magic out of the top five of all time U he's fifth for me. Yeah, because of not What he did is presence He may mean He resurrected Karim ofd to bars and his love for basketball. Yeah. he going from The Lakers were losing games, not playing well. I don't know if you remember their first game was against the Clippers. Yeah and the hug game and the hu game. Yeah. I mean, it I think that Ses abar's second half of its life basketball wise And it was huge. I forget who said this on my podcasts. I'm going to say it was Nick rightright, but I'm not positive. It was recent. players loveo playing basketball because they love playing basketball And then certain players play because they absolutely love winning and want to win all the time And Magic was one of the few who was both at the same time he loved basketball, but he also really, really loved winning. Yeah. I don't, you know, it's funny with magic. Go into my rookie year, they used to have that barnstorming tour in Mirigan. And I was included in that. Yeah. We would go and sell out like in Lancing and after the game and I'm not being honest, the gate, they would bring the gate in, the cash And Charles Tucker would It the godfather. It'd be ten for magic. five for Isaiah, one dollar for dooc. You know. And it was unbelievable. Yeah. But remember I remember going to Magic's house Yeah we're sitting there and Magic was out. I want to say it's playing Mark Mcguire Tnis in the backyard I'm just sitting that. I say he was playing Mcuire and tennis. No no magic was. Magic was. He was playing M because magic had a tennis court in the back of his house. Okay And we're just, you know, we're not watching the game. We're sitting in the house, you know, drinking kool aid or whatever you're just hanging out. And I was sudden magic plus the door open that throws a racket across the room and just walks and leaves And I'm like, what's what is going on here? And u lost Terry said he lost to Barket chire. He lost a tennis match. And I want to say wherever we're supposed to go that night, he didn't want to go. he I was like, wh. This guy doesn't like losing. Well, wasn't that KG was like that, right? The practices. Oh yeah You know what's great about KJ? He loved the competition and practice, but he also lo when the other team was into it You know, that first practice we had, we lost the starters lost and the whole bus ride But you know, we were in Rome. Yeah. The Hob bus ride Eddie House, Tona, they're giving it to him just giving it to him And Kamp was like, all right, yeah, okay. That next day It was it was incredible the energy that he brought to that practice. That was one of the days I told Tips was like We're going be hard to beat Speaking of Tipbs They just win the title the year after he gets fined. Yeah Do you take that as a positive or a negative of your tips because I got a great email a couple of days ago from a listener who's like, Tibbss condition these guys in a lot of different ways and like You should get some credit for a lot of credit defensively Uh, you know, They didn't vary from that s the system Brendan O'Connor was my assistant coach Yeah in Boston and with the Clippers is who Mike Brown hired as his defensive coach this year And that's we're all from the the u Dick Harter system of defense. So He brought that to the Kicks. It was already kind of in. Brandon made a lot of changes, but You know, it was pretty cool. Havenving said that, Bill, you're human All right, and if I was fired, And the team won the worldorld Championship the following year. U, I get I would know deep down that I really helped that team A But I wouldn't feel that way as yourre. And I think Timbs was very happy for a lot of their guys. Yeah. probablyrobably not all of them, for a lot of their guys Also, it hurts you too. It's just human, man. We forget that we're all humans, and that would hurt that would hurt a little bit for sure Where would you put Jayen Brunson against like Isaiah and some of the other Chris Paul, some of the other tough little guys. We had that Well, I think You know, not nothing against Chris. I think you would just put him against all the guys who have won titles. Yeah,. I think you would have to shorten that list. that becomes a much shorter list. That's basically as Tony Parker That's exactly the Rams. Yeah, that's that's that's who you have to put them against, you know. because he powered them You say Gus William C Yeah, Gus Williams, I apologize to him on my Monday podcast because I forgot to mention him in the G Small Guards because he always gets left out He was the best guy in nine Sonic. What about Cs? C' never won a title without Russell though. Yeah, that's true. And Russell was the best player on the team U Yeah, good point. because he was close close, close. Russell showed up lot easier when run Yeah. So I would start with that list. Yeah first and then you can go back to the other guards because Brunson was so much different. Like all the small guards would have really struggled guard, brren I mean, all of U now, he would have struggled guarding them as well Beause one of the things so I did my thing yesterday and I had him ahead of Luco all time Right the P a Laker fan who was like That's insane. Like Lucas Luas thirty three and nine and I'm like Yeah, but the whole point of baskball is winning the title. Luca was in a similar situation in the twenty four finals, right against Boston. They're down two o game three And then he has that whole thing where he kind of kindind of implodes and fouls out and then tells him to challenge it. and last part of it, Bill like, do you have the makeup to win? That's what I was telling him I was like missing. If you so you're telling him if you switch Luca and Brunson, The N still win the title with Luca or are you discounting all the other stuff Brunon did for that No that he got would it m all the time. I would say no, they wouldn't att least from what I've seen so far. And I love Luca. R. He's just not there yet that yet, you know, and you know, health, conditioning can look at sustain that type of intensity for that long I don't know if he could have couldn't, but I know Bronson could Um And there's some and there's something about whatever Brunson did with that team guys around him were the best versions of themselves, which I think is should count as a trait for basketball players. was B R K was great at. It's what Casey Jones told me that we werere sitting around in my office one day and I asked I said was who was Bill Russell's secret? He always left forom That's what he said. It's like He knew for him to be great, he had to give everybody else enough room to be great as well Brown what you you keep hearing it so often by players No know, I got to play my game I got, you know, they got to let me play my game. Okay, we will That means he can't play his game. if you're going to be dribbling the ball where he can't play his game And so why I'll let you play your game, but we're going to lose Yeah here Can you play your game and allow him to play his game and him to play his game and your team win. because if you can't do that, if you think the only way you can win is just with you with the ball in your hand, every possession. Yeah a lot of people think that, but it hasn't happened It's in the history of the game It's never happened It has never happened in the history of basketball that a guy everyvery time down, just d, drible, drib, dribble, dribble U either shot it or passed it No one's ever won that way So I mean, I love history Right. And even when Brunson was playing that way Yeah It was more because He kind of had to for like nine straight minutes or they weren't going to see Yeah, but they also moved the ball. They advanced the ball. They got it back to in fast break points But down the stretch, they went to that U O parts they went away from that They what they didid a great job of They knew when it was too much Brunson And what Mike did so well this year is he instilled the ball movement, you know, playing through towns, even without towns, just moving the ball where in the past they hadn't done that. It just stayed in Brunson's hands. It's almost like they had a little barometer Oh. too much. And they got away from it and then they would go back to it So I thought that was the difference. The other thing with Mike Brown he used the hell out of his bitch U, he really did. I thought I thought M Brown coach an amazing series. Even his challenges related that Well the Kicks have the best challenge system in NBA. They It swung games. There challenges. It's funny though, Bill. People think it's the coach head coach. The head coach has very little to do some dude that he trust completely on the back And the Kicks, I think two or three years in a row have led the NBA in challenges It's it's a weapon Right. And they're good at it Quick Yeah know, I remember we played them last year and I was like did? ricker computer. I mean, what the hell's going on? but the guy actually also understood, you have to understand the rules. to understand the rules to be a good challenger U Was that a foul before the play? Why use your time out now? you know, is this the right time Even if you're right Uh, they had one in game one or two where they were right. They knew it, but they didn't challenge because they already had one challenge that they won And they were like, no. This isn't the perfect time for us to use the second one. If we use the second one now, we're done. and they end up using it in the third or fourth quarter where it came back to really help them. So yeah, they're really good at But what else Mike did was that bench man. What I want to do what he did without toowns basically playing half the game. and just figuring out how to patch together non toowns minutes so they pick could hang around and impressive. He had the courage. He had more court courage than I did as a coach in bigger games. like what do you mean? Well he was putting in guys that he hadn't played You know, if that was something you just wouldn't do? not not unless the guy has proven it all year, you know U you know, he puts in differentere guys at different you know, he went away from Duce Duce wasive. Du in the finals couldn't make a sh. couldn't make a shot. So then he goes to sham. I love that one. Th he goes Hook forty. Yeah. Hook forty out of nowhere. Yeah And then he goes to Clarkson right Clarkson and play throughout the series. Yeah. game for the comeback. he stays with Alvorado Stays what No Now I did that. You remember we won the one game where I didn't bring in Paul or none of the big three. It was the big baby Nate Robinson Oh in two thousand nine. Yeah ye. Yeah. in that group. Yeah, we won I think it was a finals game, maybe. with that group on the floor, but I had played them all year. I did have more confidence in him Uh, But he had gone away from Clarkson Oh ye You know,s it's funny. he did put them in in the NBA cup game if you remember you can't use them and Clarkson came in and played great U, but even in that game, the cup game against the firsturs Tyler Colin he put them in. Any play great. So I love the mic Trusting everybody I thought that was really impressive. It's funny, he got fired Three times, four times. Yeah Ccluding recently in Sacramento. Scott Coachhing. Right. And then. Meanwhile, all the other coach was like, Mike Brown's a really good coach. Yeah And then finally he's in the right sp. now it's like I've always getting stand ovations in restaurants. Yeah. now he can't he'll never have to pay for another meal Did that happen to you after zero eight when you're walking in a restaurant in Boston. Still hus. You know, they had a quip. he walked into the pololo lounge in New York. They just started standing on doing this. Yeah. But right after, I remember I was walking in me and Sam Casillo and It was little uncomfortable, you know. Yeah. just You don't walk in a restaurant, people stand up and try to pay you had no chance of paying. I did like that. I'm known for being a little tight. so I absolutely love that part. Yeah. Yeah, because the cels were twenty two years. This was fifty three. Yeah. But it had a little bit of the same stuff of like You know, a lot of losing and a lot of like, I remember back when we were good and now we're not Yeah, and you know, Boston's fans now have gone through so much winning You know, when I when I now we get upset when we're bound because when I got to Boston, the Red Sox hadn't won in a thousand years. Yeah. the Patriots hadn't won The Bruins hadn't won, the Celtics hadn't won. Then all of a sudden, we're winning And I always think back to man, there's a kid that's seven years old thinks This is how it is That's Sey from the Celtics. Yeah. his sons All they they were born like right when Wight Rom Brady showed up. They were Yeah, they were born at the perfect time in Boston. They think winning is like their entitlein thirteen titles That's I don't know however many years that was One thing I onm Brunson, So so I was arguing with a Luke of Look at a friend of mine and we start talking about hard and it's like,, you know, I know you don't like hard and There's just no way Harden was worst to Brunson, like you Harden has to be aboverunson. I'm like, all right, He make the case. So he makes the case. it's like you win the NVP You know, is thirty six points a game We're like arguing back and forth about it And I' like guy I to hear everything Give me your best hardarden year twenty eighteen. He's like, twenty eighteen. I All right, take twenty eighteen hardarden putut him on this next team. Do you think they win the title? And he goes Well, but that's And I was like, that's your answer That's the answer. That's your answer answer. That's why Brson has to be a head hardarten. That is the you just say you just already started stammering and making excuses. Yeah. it's the answer that we should all go by. Right. You know, there's a lot of players, you know, James U is a phenomenal player. I my top fifty. I still think the best part of his game he doesn't like as much as I loved point card put. Yeah. I think I think he has as good a vision as anybody that I've seen next to Rondo and Chris. Yeah. and to score two And he liked to drill. He lik to hold the ball U See, James doesn't give everybody else enough room to be great. Yeah. He is the only one that can be great on this team You know, has to be degraded. Yeah. you know, I don't even think it's a jealousy thing. I really don't I just think it's the way he plays and that's how he plays You know, as you said, he's a system You know That system to me ' not the way to win You know Um I still go back. you look with James with us in Philly, the first half of the year. Yeah. gave himself up to the team U He was playing unbelievable basketball. And I thought There was nobody better than us. Yeah. And then it kind of changed. He wanted to go back. You can see it slowly like he was uncomfortable in that role U One of the things I did like about that suckerough, he practiced every day It's funny how people don't look at him like that. James Harden Lves playing basaskb and he's durable. V. I told Tylou that I said, listen You're going to need a guy that practices every day And He's going to play eighty eights There's something good about that. part is can you win with it This episode is brought to by Netflix. The T mobile homeome runun derbies right around the corner. might be one of the best showcases of pure power and all sports baseballs Biggest sluggers. along with some legendary Announcers, Puhos, Rizzo, Bonds, Sabathia L Duncan Yeah Pence, Matt Fast Kurzian, a whole bunch of people And it's the one night where you don't swing to make contact. You swing. istory I imaged is who Bon says about this actually. Anyway, it is all live from Citizens Bank Park In Philly, watch the T moobile homeomeerun Dery liive on Netflix this Monday, july thirteenth at eight A PM Eastern five PM Pacific. This episode is brought to you by Barshead. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Barshead just did that Bersing with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste, that usually means planning your whole day around it presenting the Friar's turkey breast only from Bar'shead ard tradition now available behind the counter Visit your local deli today, disiscover the craftsmanship behind every bite boars head ve committed to craft since nineteen oh five The other thing I've been talking to people about is the ten week playoff run being durable and actually getting better as those ten weeks goes along versus going the other way I think Wenby is a decent example of this, but he's twenty two. careers every team. does that at every player. Well, you want what you want is grind is so hard and you got to keep climbing the rungs and some guys can't do it. even LeBron. In twenty eleven, like by the time we got to the finals against Dallas, like he cratered. Yeah. you to learn how to how went. He had to learn how to win. He hadn't He hadn't figured it out yet Um I thought the brronze Gth where he became one of the best all time was between eleven and twelve. Yeah. And I thought and Sadly you were in the you were part of the shrapnel in two thousand. But I remember we played them in a game, maybe a preseason game And he was calling out the sets. And I remember turning to I think it was Laurece Frank. You really got This is different. Yeah. He didn't he didn't prepare before like that. He came out and played He was twenty one over here he' going. I was like, wow Now that's different And when you start doing that Wob The other thing I thought Miami you know, uh Kevin Garden name loved it U I showed a video before game one two It was before game one when we played, you know twelve. Yeah they were the you know, the big favorites, you know, we were o And I showed a video of Dwayneay Chris Bosch and the bronze before the game doing their handshake things A the game they would do it And and I said Those three guys cann not beat us twelve guys And until they figure out They're going to need Those other nine guys. We got these guys and they can't beat us U Maybe you know what you weren't counting on Be a to go up three two in game five and all your guys talking so much shit to LeBron that he finally said, all right, fuck Well not all our guys Paul. F stop fucking all time bad trash talk story my God. Well, he probably changed the course of LeBron's career. Yeah, actually, I do think if we had won that series somehow, they were about to break him up Be they had lost the year before Chris Boss was going trade Chris Bos. Yeah somebody was gone. I that way about the twenty sixteen cs. if they lose to go and state Kevin loveove is out of there. It's amazing It's amazing how a bounce or something. R. You always use Jeff and Gun who I think is an excellent coach. Um But Jeff Fang Gundhi was about to get fired with the Nicks. And Alan Houston takes a shot. Oh ninety nine Bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce on the ramp and goes that way. If the ball goes this way Jeff and Gundis fiire U The boooks Kevin De Rntz this much They're going to fire butt Well I think the twenty fourteen Cippers is a good what if team. Yes because you have stterling happening Yeah, which is still one of the craziest That was not things that teams ever had to deal with during playoffs. and then Chris Pa. The safest beted on the planet just having a complete meltdown in the last minute of game four or game five Olity. Yeah. Yeah. you know it's funny U, I thought I don't know if we would have won it or not U, because when you look back And that's where some of the players get mad at me when I said when you look back on our team U We didn't get along the way we were supposed to to win. And so if that's if you didn't have great chemistry, It's hard to win, but that year I thought we kind of had it Yeah. Blake and Chris kind of whatever their stuff was and that happened before I got there U, they kind of moved it to the side U there were so many mistakes and Chris was literally Chris is the smartest right player that I coached in my career You know, I think Rono' the smartest who also never made mistakes. like the best business turnover ratio., We're supposed to file out of the timeout. His guy got it. he didn't file He tried to trick the game. That was the one thing that me and him but headads about all the time. You'llt need to trick the game. Oh the. you remember the ball. And honestly, he did get foued. Yeah, but they didn't call it. And so Oklahoma gets it and they comes back and scores. That was like when Bonsson got found with ten seconds left and they didn't come didn't call the ball into bridges. Yeah. So that was almost a disaster. That was It was going to be a disaster So that's You know, but man that changed that fortune of the cllippers One game really it did. Yeah you had that one. We've talked about this before on pods, but the the ones that You almost could have won and two bad things happen are are way worse than winning. Well Well I've had the winning is here and the losses are saws. Yeah, the winning is always if you win it all, there's nothing that's ever going to beat that except for mentally, your losses hurt more. Right? You You think more about the losses Tims and I talk about two ten way more than two eight And that you're not being like, Ohh, remember thatzo eight, the Toy series That was great. That's what coaches. I mean, I had the the three one lead against Detroit where we were We weren't supposed to be in that series. If you ever go back and look at the magic team Yeah And then Tracy McGrady stands up this yearss is over. Right. You know, I didn't know he said that, but that's he said it in the media. Nobodybody should ever say that. neverever. Never And think about this, Rick Carlow got fired because of that series Yeah because Joe Dumars I guess all year said you gotta play this kid named Teishhaan Prince He didn't play them all year And then game four, he put them in That's the end of the game And he was phenomenal. By game seven, he was their go to guy. I mean, it was crazy Yeah. And I really believe that's what got Rriged fired. Jesus. Yeah We were talking on a previous podcast about these teams that got the secret which Like the zero four pistons is a good example. Yeah. this next team The fourteteen spurs Now there's other like the O eight Celtics were so talented It's almost like the talent It's kind but it was more the play. We played together the right So when do you know that it happens as a coach? Is there a moment during the season or playoffs? with the Kicks it was the last sixteen games. But that's not what happens most of the time. We were not ready to win when the playoff started People think we were. we win seven games against the Hart. The first two teams. Yes.. the second series was Cleveland. who was probably the second best team in the East. anotherother seven game series Um where we turn into a championship team was when we lost game two and D at home Bnd Detro then if That's when when we went to Detroit and won That was a moment went from here to here. And for the next it was game for Alant. Right. When when I talk something for Tail people each round. As much as these players think they know. which is all of us You're good in the first round. your team is different in the second round You win that round. your team is different again. in the third round because you keep growing. you keep trusting guys start either becoming more unselfish. They start seeing themselves with a chance to win Each round, your team gets better E round it does and that's everything What's your theory for why Homecourt advantage seemingly does not matter anymore L I don't have one. I really don't. I've thought about it., you know, the talent, the offense Oh Three point shooting variant. I travel I think to travel is easier What about what about DMs and Tinder and all you don't have to go to clubs to meet girls anymore. that helps. That helps. You know That to help Dominique. as I think Pat Reilly said is it's not the act. Yeah. It's the chasing. right. You know. So Yeah, I think all that h But I do think it's the three point shot that has changed. because the next one Two in Cleveland. Yeah And then all three in San Antonio. You looking last last year Indiana. other one. They didn't care where they played. Yeah, there's no, but shooting three point shooting has changed though There's no lead that's safe anymore I have a Boston fan friend of mine says the biggest thing that's changed is they have all these rules that the fans can't be super mean to the other team anymore. Oh no. they' they're still pretty mean. because he, you know, there's been teams where they would put people behind the visiting bench and they would just yell at the guy heavily on the barber and that r is kind of over That ir is gone. Yeah, you don't feel like you're Oh my go. It's it was funy as a player I love the road I love playing on a roow. Well, those always the best wins, right? when you're shutting the crowd. better. It's the most powerful 'ause I wanted to beat the Lakers So bad in game five. Yeah. I wanted to win there' so bad. I just talked about this game in a podcast. Yeah because I was telling a story about how N game five with Foster reminded me of in five away eight with Coster Rayon had five thousand in the second half. And so did Paul Pierce and Ryon fout out of the game How many games did Ray own Fou in his life. Yeah, that many. But that was one of those where I was like, Yeah wish we hadd gotten a good way well, either. I I didn't get any. I thought that was the first game. The only game You can't get finded anymore It was twenty years ago. You didn't get any whis. I thought that was, you know, that's what we didn't get any whisom in game seven. That's for a whole notother show. you know, the officiating changed Yeah from the first half to the second half You know, in that seventh game in two ten When they allowed Pagasad to just shove everybody around? Yeah went from they they wasn't calling anything I think it was seventeen to five. But that's a good example Yeah of the little margins, right? So why why do that we ultimately I'm going to say we like I was playing. Well do we. Wh do whyy did we lose that game? because Rashid Wall had to play thirty five minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Perkins' out and that tilted it just enough.'t you didn't have You were ten and Kevin was more like Wimby then in the fact that Wimby Kevin was a k three rebounds of that. Yeah, Kevins Kevin's Once he got back from injury, He never could practice It worked the way he worked. Fatigue was a major factor with KG And that was Gasaw was feasting. Yeah. and that's where Gassal, we let him out of we own him. we let him out of the bag Well, that's the thing with these when you talk about the margins because a great one was twenty sixteen game seven Where's calves Bog gets out Barnes is unplayable. Yeah Also Festus Azeli is out there with six minutes left Yeah. LeBron targets him get six points out of them. Yeah And that swings the game, right? And it's like but there's a little thing, but it's not. It's yeah, it's a little thing, but it's a huge thing And always find that interesting like the Bron had figured out how to win now You know, he won in Miami. He had gone through those each rounds. And so now he knew how to win He become a winner. interesting though because I felt like he was, I mean, he's easily one of the four or five smartest players of the century, right? And then he's Probably the best athlete of the century. Yeah. hing had to like settle in with him. It was almost like like a cake Yeah. but he had to like stay in the oven for a while. We had to settle. We had to figure out how to win. people pressure I think he was putting How do you know how to? Right? You know, if you haven't one. You don't think he learned from Ricky Davis is some people it's natural You know, magic was a winner coming in the vse He won a national title. The biggest game in I think the biggest college game in the history College basketball has to be. And I think it still is. Yeah. you know, I know where I was at. when Larry Bird and Magic. Ped I remember that game. Um, when did you see that stat that uh Brunson was the fifteenth guy to win high school college and NBA Yeah D didn't say not No, that's a lot. You know who else is on there? Kareem Wrestsell and Magic. Yeah, I was gonna say that's a lot, by Bill, that's People, that has to matter. It matters more than so many other things. This guy just keeps winning How can that be done Well, they that team probably has two years left, but now they're going to deal with Pat Rilly isease a more. I gave up stuff. Now I'm not as excited to give up stuff I really like shooting eight shots a game anymore. I'd like to shoot twelve. Michael call it a trophy tour You're going to deal with all the trophy tour guys. And I remember asking, what are you talking about? He said, Oh no, these guys They're carrying the trophy to their hometowns Theyre having paraded for them Uh, they're going to come back They're gonna to want more. They like Tro tour. I like that. Yeah, he called it the trophy tour. Did you see the Jim Dolans speech? No. I gotta send it to you No He this Brunson's podcast, they put the speech on their feed He gave a fifteen minute speech to the team before the playoffs. Wow sat in front of them. I couldn't believe it. it's like a great speech. It's like a sports movie speech. I have to see. What said this whole speech about I think this team is going to win the title But it's only going to happen If you guys dedicate this, you're going to have to put the team above your site. It's like he It was kind of great. He's like, you're going to have to tell At one point he goes, I'm going to give your wife or your significant other Champhip brings if we win this because they're going to have to sacrifice too. This has to be all you think about. Wow. This is going to be the hardest thing your life. Biley speech. Well then he goes Yeah If we win What this will mean in New York City? I can't even explain to you what's going to happen to everybody in this room if you gott to watch it. I was like, I didn't know you had this in your doing Jim listen, he's they've done everything right. like Leon Man we talked about this two podcasts ago about Leanna West. Yeah. Yeah, but anybody and I remember I said anybody can get the star. I can make a trade. I can take over to tomorrow and find a way of getting a start Can you the right people around them And God darnt, every decision they made came up go It came up go. Would you I talked about this before, but would you Do you think the job of being a GM with relationships and knowing kids who turn into adults Yeah that you recruited and stuff That feels like more of an advantage than West New toowns when he was fifteen. trying to get him. Like he's known thatyorever. so he's like, Oh, his contract two. like, no, he's a kid. We gott to get him in. Should more owners be looking at people who were like agents O agents or uh even though players who want to be front office people Yeah. You know, like could Chris Paul do this I don't know if he has the relationships. R. Yeah. But one thing Chris does you know, is he knows players. I guess Jamal Crawford knows everybody in the league, you know, right He's voted team teammate of the year every year. Yeah. If you wanted one guy. toget And I'm joking. The IJ Jordan knows singlely every single person in league. It's funny when you play on the Olympic team, Coach Kate calls me. it's like This guy's the pipe piper I have never seen a guy that everyone wants to be with and, you know, have we ever talked about this because When I had the I sa the Cippers and tickets, but when he didn't play, It wasn't plank. He was like a scrub on the equip But before and after the games, he knew everybody on the other teams and it was like can shapedugs. I I say to my wife like, I don't know what the deal is with this backup setentter. He knows everybody in the league. When I got them and you know, when I came and we had the big talk and for him, you know, the one of my favoritees player coach stories of all time. I gave them that long list uh, like, uh you know, he told me he wanted to score more. Yeah, and that's why he didn't play well the year before he's pouting. H You know, it was my first year there. It was my first meeting with DJ Literally in my first meeting we're at Nobble. Yeah. and u I's like, Sabini Delenger told you you're going to score more. He said, No, it told me to work on my offense. And then I did that and I didn't get the ball I said, um I'm going to have you work in your office too But I'm going to guarantee you one thing and And he says, what's I will never Call a play for you Never and he's look at mean, this is our first meeting. Yeah. I said, but if you get every rebound and you become I'm going to make you the defensive captain. I gave him a list Yeah, All defense, You know, all Star team, rebound t team, rebounding title, all these lists and then NBA champion. U and it's an emotional one. he checked them all off And then when he won title with the Denver N Bill ten minutes after the game. I get a bing on my phone pitcher with him in the trophy And he had the note And it said checked. Wow. How awesome is that Yeah, that's That was the Andre That was pretty cool We took Jr Gidens over room. Yeah Don't get me started with that one. I'm gonna give you the one thing I loved about Danny and we would me and Danny loved we had a great relationship. but My son, Jeremiah. Yeah. playight with some of these guys now Oh, I think you told me this story. he knew doing the draft.'s like doing that draft JR G he's like, I'm telling you, I play with him And daddy loved him Danny loved them. Danny's had a pretty high batting average. Listen, I knew what Dan need and let him do it whatever. Right most of the time. Well, you know, it's funny now they have the second pick and people like Peterson said he wasn't going to work out for them Yeah. And it's obody's going to know who Utah. Anyone who's like, I know what Utah is going to do is like, good luck. Well L I don't think people who worked for Utah knows what they. It was over game one or game two, I had Larry Yeah over and Laurerence Frank and it's funny, Larry really joyed enjoyed Lawrence Frank because Laurerences a you know,' an active Right? J just asking questions. And he's he's just buzzing in with questions. And we start talking about Danny and we were laughing like No one knows what Danny is up to. No one And it's the truth. I think they're going to take Camboozer Only because of twenty five years of watching how Danny thinks about this stuff. Yeah. I just think he's going to be like, you know what That guy's just really good. Danny knows taking that guy. I will say this about Danny. He knows already. I guarantee you that. Yeah, he's like walking in a bar and seeing girl It's now he's trying to sell other franchises on someone else. you know what it does. So haveave you looked at the draft at all or now? Not much and that yet. No. You're like a retired guy now Yeah. it's playing golf, golf and trying to build your endurance up and h on the terrible golf but I enjoy it. Yeah know. Well, we gott to talk about Yan ofrades Yeah. So When you have a trade hanging over a team like that. it's not just Jonis and the Bcks, it's other stuff, but And then the way stuff's reported now and talked about How do how do you navigate that as a coach or you don't you do. I probably underestimated the damage. that it was doing to our team. Yeah. because You know, first of all A lot of the reports They were just not accurate. Yeah. And and unfortunately It doesn't matter if they're accurate or not It's out there because the reports support and there's six hours of you know shelf lifeife out of it. You know, as Al Michael says, some of these guys they report on the news and then they They didn't do reports on the news that they created You know And so it just it's like a double dip. but to go back to the buffet table. Yeah, it takes a life of its own. because I knew what Janes was telling me. And so some of this stuff just wasn't right, wasn't true. And but that doesn't mean the agents wasn't telling someone else something else. You know, it didn't matter. It did damage because If you're a coach, I'm trying to get Bill Simmons to play his role You're like, play my role why am I gonna to play my role? My best player I didn't want to be You know. Uh And that is the damage it does Yeah honest Re never players that he wanted to leave And he never probably said he want to state, you know. And so So it's just like everything is uneasy. Yeah, but he did tell him once, guys, I'm here I'm here. He told me that, you know, several coaches I'm going nowhere. So me long before the trade deadline before I startite becausees I'm going nowhere I don't want to go anywhere. So what am I trading for if I'm getting him? Because I don't know if you're aware, but I've hurt. The Boston Celtes are one of the possible teams. I've ht. I've ht. Well, you're gettingid. a rejuvenated healthy. Uh Yanas, Is it a healthy or hopefully healthy? No he's healthy. And I also think This will be his first time in four years not having your basketball You know, So Janis and I had a conversation I want to say a month before the season ended And you know, you remember the whole Did you come back And I was I was honest, I see hon it. in my opinion You shouldn't come back Yeah, season's over. You need to sit Um, I said, but you should look at this as a great opportunity you can start working out now Uh, you can bring in your guy that you work with And you can start now for next year. There's no European basketball You get a whole year to really work on your skcale It's like the roocky threeye of the Tiger Yeah Yeah. Yeah. And he' start to do him. He was doing it. He was, you know, before I left He was already into his workouts, you know, so I think they're going to get that. I think it'd be good for him probably, you know, just U to get all this stuff off of. He can focus on basketball and playing. but how does it make sense I've already said on the record I kind of hope the Celtics don't trade for him because I think it's risky because this will be his fourteenth year in the league The history of big men as they get older. No he's not a typical big m. I know, but I'm just going by history. I don't think it's it's not like getting in two thousand eight. Yeah. And also with any tray, you risk chemistry P You don't, even if you think your chemistry is not great now U you risk making it way better You also risk making it work. We've seen this happen in the NB over and over again over and over again more like I don't understand why he would want to go to My aim is the one I don't I can't figure out unless they have other moves coming that I don't know because it's like All right, it's him and Bam, but you just traded everybody else. whereere are you going? And you would have traded your closer ' tell the heroes are closer. Right. You, see what you want about them But he's a straightight. Wh why would I want to go laterally? I would just rather stay in w point. That's where he's trusting their front office. that they have the ability to add more pieces You know Yeah, that's those are the talks we're not in you know, after the Last two rounds of basketball we watched, like you You need like seven eight d. You need a lot of guys. You can't just be you and Bam M of Bio. it can't be you and J Jason Tatum. Yeah Well, the Celtics still have a lot of players. No, I know. But I there' there's there's a much safer thing for him. The only thing from the Celtics point of view is you are shortening your window you know, because Jonas is older Uh and Brown is younger Wellonis is older with more miles on him, But you also maybe U A that window, giving yourself a chance to have another window with Jason Tator ight You know what I mean? So it depends on how the front officers look at it What would you do if you were a boston? Well, that's a tough one. You know, I don't ever say it because I don't know because you traded for KG, you had a five year window with KG Right Yeah. Yeah. You knew it was like, I've him I Pierce. Ray Yeah This is four to five. I remember we thought when we did it, we thought we had a three to forty year window would age mean, obviously, Kid you got hurt, we didn't know that was going to happen. U That's why you can't take anything for granted. I said it the other day. you remember when Oklahoma City Ki Katie James Hard B I was That's when this happened. They They thought their window was limitless. Yeah, my brain. I remember my brain Hm say, well, you know, they lost this series of Miami But they're going to be back here many times They never made it back Assuming eighty six rackets. Yeah. You can ninety five magic. There's no assumptions There's no this league winning is brutally hard You have to play well You have to act right, you have to get along. You need luck U you need everything to win a title And if you don't get everything You're not going to win But you think you get Jonis, these next two years would be the years you You have to cash in on. Yeah. He's got to be. he's so motivated You know, it's not like he's not always, but He just motivated. He wants to he wants to win another title. Job Yatis wants to win It's interesting. We're just talking about it. He didn't talk a lot about his play talks about winning. Yanas wants to win it I don't know what the right team is for him I don't to actually win at the tle. You have to have a closer with them And that's awesome and have. That's what the Tatum. That's why the Tatum thing makes more sense because a two man game with Yan is in tatum Good luck The only thing I said on the pod that I guess was a reporting, but I know I'm right is that the Salt expanded offer. I don't know if Jayalen Brown was in it. Yeah. I assume he has to be in it Yes,. I don't know how you' get that. I don't know I don't either, but I don't know how you would make an offer without him in The problem with our league now is when I first started coaching You could have all these conversations then the player would never know Never know. Now the player always knows. They know it ten minutes after the conversation Is this is what happened with Katie and in Brooklyn Yeah with Jayen Brown. Yeah once when he heard about that once the news happens. Yeah. there's damage Oh You know, it's really tough for teams. You should have conversations Yeah, you should always try Listen to everything. That doesn't mean you're doing it So And my guess is it wasn't the Celtics calling, it was probably Milwaukee callall in Boston. or they're trying to figure out talking basasic Vague parameters and then Milwaukee goes, Well, if we got Jayalen Rown, could we spin him? Yeah. Now you talk to another team and now now everyone says there's going to be three teams. whenever this has to be. If it does happen It'll be three teams. It's just you know, with the cl be the Clippers. Jaylen could become in L.A. I actually wouldn't be surprised at all if the cllippers were involved in this at all withith the financial ability of Steve Bamer and that organization. And they have some cf space and they have the fifth pick. They also will have eighty degrees and no humidity U and they have an ocean Uh, People like that players like that Uh, you know before It was all lakers. You know when it was a little like the Nets Nnick situation. Yeah. And but now U No It's one of the things I would say if I have a lot of pride about things which I never do because I' in those terms, but that's one of them like, no, you should take c. We wanted to When I took that clipper job, I remember said I said in the press conference We're going to make this a destination We're going to make the clippers Pase people want to come to Um Now I didn't know at the time what Daviel Sterling as the owner That was a p of sky thought when you think about it, But even Dado. pay, you know, for players. But then when Bomber came organizationally, like everything's first class, they do everything right Uh, I mean, it's they they do it the right way. Yeah, when I got my tickets in zero four I just got it for the other teams, which is why most of the people were there, right? St And then unfortunately. And it was really kind of fun to go to the games. They were so dysfunctional year after year after year And then, you know, his little baby steps. They draft break. he finally gets there. w thing falls out of the sky and all of a sudden it starts to look like a real team. You know, Bat, So when I was traded to the cllippers as a player. Yeah in the nineties. my wife No first rivers. goes to the first game And She's in the stance crying True story. She sit next to Gloria Schuler That was Mike Schuler's wife. Yeah and Gloria is consoling her. and like What's wrong, baby? My son is my She says, My husband is no longer in the NBA and he doesn't know it. Oh my God. She was like say, no, baby, that's not true That's not No it isn't NBATam. Yeah. and she kept say No, it's not. Now way back then, if you remember at the at the clip joint, that thing was a mess It was a mess. I never went there because I had never been in LA until the two thousands. I heard it was was it the sports arerena or? The arena was a mess It was a mess Comedians doing shows after the game. people I mean, you could literally check yourself in. There was no one there. It was crazy It's one of the only good sports documentary ideas left that I don't think Bomber will ever let happen. Like the actual history of the clippers And what the what if I'm bomber, I would because the ending is a glorious story and he he was a white knight. I hope it's glorious. We don't know how the aspiration scandal is going come out at worst who knows att worst, he's still going to be there. And he's still going to keep doing things well and Um, So I wouldn't worry about it So you, if you're the clippers You would rather have a star than the fifth pick Yeah, I think if you have Kawai and garland if you have a really good front officer I think right now here's my belief and a lot of front officers don't believe this' half and a half if you legitimately can look yourself in the eye and say, if we do this move, we have a chance to win H to go for Um I think so many franchises have waited now man. This is not if if this is the time You gota You got to cash it in U, but you got to have a very honest isn it or isn't it Be a lot of teams think They do it and What did they do? You know, and I don I remember last That' how do o. Last year Orlando traded for Baine. And they said, now we have a chance. And I was like, what No, you know't You're better. It's a hell of a trade. It's a good troade You're not ready to win yet. That's how I always feel about these trades. Yeah. If if I'm doing it. better at least have a chance. Yeah, but you have to be honest enough to evaluate the league and what you have for sure. Like Celtics, Ray Allen trade. then the KG trade, you basically trade all your assets. but now I have now on the best team in the East. Yeah. of course I'm going to do that. Yeah. We knew immediately we had a shot. We knew. We knew we had to be Detroit, Cleveland, and the Lakers. you know, in whatever order, we knew that had to happen. We the larurgest trade, which I guess I'll take the loss on this one, but the The thing I didn't like about it was like, this is it. This is your move. like now you have no more moves. but he is it turned out they had an extra move because the towns trade Yeah became the extra move. I thought after brridges, I didn'tny everyveryone made the big deal about the bridgees trade. fiveive pitches is a lot. Well was anything they could have given for Janna. It still didn't constrict them You know, they went out and got towns. It didn't stop them. Yeah. and I don't know if there's a better role player for your basketball team. the bridges. Yeah. he's willing to take Four shots fififteen shots Six shots, every game, he shows up He didn't know. And by the way, he plays basketball. He's out there. He does a mescaame. Yeah. He plays every night and he still one of the better defenders every single night. Yeah. pretty important guy to have on your tea If you were Orlando, would you think about Palo Frianis I don't know, man. That's Do that does that s you in the title Cvo? Yeah, I would do it If I'm in Orlando, if I thought that put us over the hump or G Jianis, I have Franz. I have Bane I've sugs. I've been lgh. Do you have enough shooting? Maybe inf frge sang get somebody. Yeah, if you can get enough shooting, you know, I don't know what the other moves. L I keep saying it I can go get aanas Right Uh, but does that put us over to the top and Do we know how to make the rest of the moves to win U teeams do it over every year, you, every year we see it teams go and get a star. How about Houston Ivvently coming back I have to give up Senud in the trade, I'm guessing Yeah and maybe Jabar Smith too Yeah. and I might have to take a contract back I don't know I don't know if that works. I don't think it works either. Yeah. I don't think I'm better than San Antonio or OKC either way. Yeah. And then San Antonio is the interesting one, but I don't think they would do it. They probably wouldn't do it. Oklahoma could as well. Oklahoma not their style. Oklahoma could do any traade they want to do. R. I mean, what they have, what Sam has done is twelve and seventeen in this draft They're mad at draft picks. Yeah. Oh my God, what are we going to do with all this stuff? He's the he's in the first situation ever where he's like I think I'd rather have the eighth pick than the twelfth pick. Yeah. I'm just going to go trade for it. He Atlanta. here's seven picks for to move more no doubt that he's going to do a two for one. He has to. You know, he almost has to Well there's a center in this draft who I like, the Michigan Kid Mara. Yeah he's solid. but I' threeough. Yeah. you've watched them more than me. Well, he's seent for three. Yeah. He's a good passer and I'm through the through the Wpy prison now Yeah. I need size. Where am I getting size? Yeah, Wimby is everybody in the West You have to think about it. You have to think about it you know, um, This funny the Nicks, they didn't just were I was way wrong There's no way I thought towns would or could Gar Wendy And he did an amazing job. And he didn't really have dumb fouls u No, you near the end of the f. made it interesting statistically going into the series. You know who's the best deffender on Windby plus minus. Wh. OG in I think in the league. He had the highest plus minus guard. You know he was that good? No, no. I knew he was a great defender G and like elite I never thought he'd be able to shoot and make shots and make plays the way he does. never knew he had the IQ Yeah he has an incredibly high basketball instinct dives you. I love There's got to there's no way to have a staap for this, but like Do you do the most positive things that you're capable of doing in the least negative things. Yeah Something about like didn't make You know yourself the best out of anyone. Like you always have these guys who are like, oh, I bet I can do it and they can't. But he never does anything he can't do. Yeah. The whole league have has irrational confidence. rightight? Every player has irrational confidence. That's what makes them good. Pow But if you want to be a successful I always tell young coaches, if you can get all twelve your guys to know exactly who they are Now you're never going to do that. but if you can do that People would never lose What do you never lose? You talk to coaches all the time All the time. You're like the fucking yoda of coach. You talk a lot. You talk to all of them. What is their biggest thing that they're worried about now Like just with basketball in twenty twenty six. you know, no one's ever asked that question to mean, that's a great question. Thank you. I think a lot of them are concerned. How many the outside forces touching their players? There's just too many people. You mean like shooting coach, manager, agent. even inside, like You got ten skill developing guys who I love Uh, you have The medical team now is bigger than your coaching staff There's just so many Voices And how do you manage those voices? It's like Culture is not just the players If your coacher in the training room or which is skill development aren't all locked in on the same thing. Youre not winning. Rh. fififteen years ago, I had to wor about four coaches in two courses. You might add two Yeah two or three coaches and two trainers. easy to kind of circle the wagons and have a great culture. now You got You got, you know, a lot of people. How many coaches do we actually need in all seriousness Because like I was watching they were showing the seventy six finals. Yeah. and the Celtics had Tom Heinsen is the head coach, and John Killay is assistant. That was it. Yeah, just the two of them And if if both of them got thrown out, like Dave Cowens had to become the coach. Yeah. we had Dick Harter and Jeff andgundi. It sounds great. Yeah. Isn't that easy It was so cool because remember I hurt my knee and I needed Coach come rebound for me. I need have a skill development guy. I do a lot of skill development guys. I think they really help players. Yeah Kjaf hand Gandi. And that's, you know, it wass funny, Jeff are coming just Jeff was the greatest freaking guy because he shut his mouth And he just rebounded for me. tell like I was just shooting shooting And if I miss you try to get it and throw it back, wouldn't say a word. Bballs for you shot You know, it wasn't until middle of that workout one night. We're just sitting there talking afterwards And he said his age and I said, Wait a minute I'm oldder are you? You know, I didn't even know that You know Je Isn't that crazy? Yeah So they worry about outside forces. Yeah How about wear and tear of the schedule? Not as much as you think. Yeah. I think the coaches were about far less than front office and medical teams do Um And then Um, do worry about It's harder Players to buy in now Because of the two ways? No, because of all the other stuff you know, everyone has their own brand now, you know, everyone R. You know, guys who you're like, why why do you have Why do you have a person? Yeah. you know Why do you have a publicist? What do you need a publicist for? Yeah. eleventh man. Yeah, they all have them They're hking selling something. Creating something I mean, this is real business and money for these guys. So I think that's what they're more concerned by Uh, than anything else Our roll battery is the same That's like asking ev full soccer players are the same Take Messi, the most decorated player ever. Is there any other player who has achieved that? No, just him. Now take Duracl. Is there any other battery with power boost ingredients inside? No, just Duracl. Remember, goats only trust goats because they're built different, and Messi only trusts Duracl Take your flexibility beyond the mat PayPal Pay nothing at cheheckout, Then enjoy a flexible monthly payment plan that works for you. With no sign up or late fees. Find yours then, and an easy way to pay. With PayPal. Download the PayPal app to get started. Subject to approval pay mononthly consonsumer loans made by Webank. Available through PayPaling NLS nine one zero four fivety seven. Learn more at payPal d. com slash pay monthly I have something that you don't know about. that is? No Oh my gosh This is awesome Where did you get this from? After the two thousand seven draft. Yeah Somebody atDSPN grabbed this for me and sent me an email and said, Hey, I grabbed the envelope. Do you want it And I was like, fuck you, I'll take it, not realizing how about that? Yeah, this won a title for me. That won you a title. This won me a title. I will say. That was the lowest Our office has ever been M mean was the lowest I think I've ever been as a sports fan. didid everything. It look the best pick Yeah. I mean, I wish I could have some of those games back that I mean you're just oing for Joe B in March Mid March I would look up in the stand some night And you know, let's say Geryl's having a night or somebody and Danni's looking at me be like Right. takeake them out. I remember Rondo was almost like too good to play those things. Yeah Rondo, I mean, it was So that one comes up. That's it. That was yeah, that was a rough night Be think about it if we got If we got one and you took Odin You' probably doing TV years. Danny swears he was take he would take a durnt. Yeah. and I don't know if that's true I think that is true. But Dandy so close. I wouldn't have known until late anyway. Well, the story I just heard was that the Celtics doctor had a great doctor back then Dct. McCin. Yeah the best. that he saw the Odin stuff and he was like He actually gave a couple flags. The only one that always, you know, dor. McCein and I become That brs we golf and O only thing I still kill them on are Brandon Roy We could have had him. And he he u he said guys No it wasn't wrong. He was like a for year window. Yeah, you know, It was a really good five years. Yeah. And I always say I would have taken those five years. Right. But he was it was amazing how correct He said that guy is going to play four or five years and then his career is going to go the other way. I mean, it was like to the year ' believe Jesus. Yeah. So what's your finalianis prediction before we go I think it gets moved I think it gets moved. Yeah. East coast or west coast. I don't you know, I think teams make a mistake when they worry about that Hit the best deal But I was saying would you predict Eastern conference or western conference? I'm going go west No I'm sorry I'm going go east. You're going go east. Yeah Do you think Janas will be in the NBA finals again Yes, if he goes to the right place Do you think the NSS will be in the NBA finals again? He'll be there Yeah, he'll be there for sure. He won't be on the tate. What was Thanesis's best pickup basketball strength Eergy. One thing I tell you, like the dude there were days where he actually was useful because You know, you he would ramp it up. Yeah, he was playing hard. likeike The NASS No one won to practice against him Yeah, I was gonna to say, wasas he the guy in the gym that everybody was getting mad at? he was trying to. Yeah, you know what was up for me was Leon Wood, the rough Oh, interesting. Yeah. I made the All Star team that year and I swear to gosh it's because of Leon Wood I hate it her. I would back in you play forty two minutes and back then you practiced every day. Right. And you scrimmed a lot And you know, I just played forty two minutes darten DJ And the next day we're practicing and Leam Wood is picking me a full court, you know, there were days I wanted to just punch them But that's probably probably why it hurts when you hit a five wood now. Yeah, no doubt. hurts when I've been down. play probably eighty games Leon would. It's funny. How do you? The last game that Leon did, I say Leon You move just like me. We did too much Who'd you think? by the way, had I had before we go, I had You just coached a team questions random ones. who did you think the best ref in the league was You're in right now? Right now. The best ref this season that you saw. I thought Scott Foster Scott Foster. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. ye. I thought I think he has really become It's, you know what I've learned, It's not just as referee where Scott has improved is just people skills. and U, you know, there's a couple other ones that that I really like. Any young ones? Josh Josh Tiin, I think has The good demeanor overall takes it very seriously. I love I love I learned a little bit during COVID. I got a chance to golf with some of the rests Oh, interesting. And u It's interesting I love I have found this thing. Some of these guys care so much They want to be like really good at their jobs And those are the guys I like. Then there's another group of guys that like Why are you so upset? It's just the game. Yeah, You know what I mean? Yeah So give me that first group because Uh it hurts them They know when they make a mistake and it it hurts them just like you Those are the rps you want Scott Foster. Yeah, I think he's really He's a solid NBA r. What coach impressed you the most that you went against That's a great boy, good questions. I forgot to ask you these the last time we run. Yeah. Was there one where you were like, man, that guy's got fucking everything going here? Well, mean stuff Oklahoma was so good. Yeah, but I still think he's really good. Yeah. I thinkag Yeah, I think he's He's really marked like he does He makes the right plays. he subs the right guys in U th I thought in the the last series with guys injured, you know, it was it was tougher for him Yeah I was impressed with Mike Brown this year Uh, you know, I, you know, I've played against him, coachs against him and T eas and I beat him twice when he had LeBron Yeah. And I think his growth H. s he's a different coach from when he was back then. U there's no like he's different. I love and I I'm a couple we got to come with a list. I loveved There's certain coaches, you better be ready. And then there's other coachures I felt like, ye What No. Yeah, this is dis. I knew what they're doing. Yeah.s there's certain there coaches that I felt because I thought one of the things I did well throughout my career was ATLs. You know, we call the time out we were scorn. Yeah. I had a very, very, very prominent coach told me he lost he admitted this. he lost the game U to me because They had a time out And he didn't use it because he didn't want me be able to drop a playate And he and he said it was so stupid that he didn't. Yeah. and there's coaches that you feel the same about My dad Call it time out They're going to get to drop a play too and he's killing us right now. out of timeout. So there's, you know, that goes both ways with coaches and Stevens was the best I ever saw at that. Brad was great out of time out. good. I don't know. He must have had like some database about these crazy plays that he have. Yeah, you would be amazed at the coaches like Tylu has U every ATO that I've ever drawn up. Um, reallyally? Yeah, the entire time he was my assistant he just like in a Google Dc or something? No even raw it up and keep it. He had a book. He would draw ' them all up and he would keep them. Um, And They beat us U in Philly one game with one of my plays and it incenses me. This Oh chiss me off. So bad U they literally ran a play that that should Yeah, and it was flawless. And you know, we talked about it afterwards. She was laughing. I Tips did that a lot Yeah know, run all you know, because we all steal from each other. nobody's a genius in this. We all think we are. no one's I could watch a game I watch a game now. wow That's good I could tweet this. you know, that's how coaches watch games. It's pretty cool. Yeah, I remember game one, we were texting and you were like, I don't like I don't like this W beyond towns. Yeah. I don't like this. He's not He'll get away from this as this goes al. I kept telling you. I don't like this matchup. Yeah. Well, guess what? He stopped doing it by game three. Yeah. give me two young players who aren't superstars or known stars yet that you think are going to get there Well, he's known but Ecombe has a chance to be Really good. because he has the makeup and I think having Maxie around him So you're buying stock on the Maxi Edgec comp. maybe too small What did you like about Edgecomf? His edge Like he's a he's going to be What S Kilman is going to be. I don't know how good he'll be offensively. he played on Austin's AU team U I don't know how good he'll be offensively. He's ahead of where I thought he was already But he's going to be an elite defensive player in the NBA Eite. Uh, that's coming And you can see that. I'm trying to canvas the league with my imagination because I would have thrown Dylid Harper in there before the Dylan Harper's already know. Yeah. Yeah. like that's the obvious choice For all of us how's Dylan Harper? I'm thinking like thatso is the other guy that we don't talk about enough, you know, Castle is a being a consistent shooter away from being a consensus allar player every year. How about Cedric Howt I don't know yet. Uh, you like you Yeah I do. Yeah. you like him. I'm not sure yet Yeah. notot sure about the intangibible Yeah, it's tough because he was on a shit team. Yeah It's so hard to judge some of these guys. And it's also hard to judge a guy on a good team that doesn't play a lot or play his role. You know, you don't get to see The problem is I don't go to as many games as I used to And I always pick up and I'm sure you're the same way, you pick up so much more in person. all you do. It's the Cippererss backup center. Yeah who ended up getting hurt, Neter Houser, whatever he is. I love that guy. Like that gu's going to be Yeah. that guy that a guy. He will be like in a playoff rotation I got a question for you other than Boston Yeah and Nicks the other two teams in these next year I'm interested to see what Charlotte does with fourteen and eighteen. And maybe next year is not their year. Maybe they'll be like, we'll draft two more guys. This is a slow build Yeah But I also don think they could zag the other way and just go get somebody really good. makeake a run in it with the shooting they had. I wouldn't be surprised if they move someone and then did the trade as well Again. Honestly, that was like an interesting Yanest team to me. It's a different timeline, but ye but Charlotte was a wildc for me though. Charles was one of those young coaches that I was That's other thing. they' really well coached that I was extremely impressed with. We beat them three out of four times and we cau him early. And I remember sitting with John when a horse in the office and he said man, that team's coming. I said Oh, they're here. Right. I said, I don't know if they know it, but they're here So I have a go Boston What do we think Cleveland's going look like? I don't know, who knows They're going be in it U, ye, Cleveland they have to make it some decisions. They can't have one hundred and twenty million dollars tax. Can they win with both big guys to me? It's not the money. They can wn the money. They'll trade Al. That's that's the the question for them. Well one of the things I wonder like do they trade Allen and a sign and trade with LeBron for the LeBron Cleveland farewell tour and does want to do That whole thing is going to be a mess. I mean, whatever LeBron does and he listen, he deserves it But where he goes and what he does, it feels like things are fractured A little bit in LA With him, but I don't that's actually true, but it feels that way. Everything feels fractured until they figure out a monetary figure to make it unfractured. The makeup is unbelievable are. I told you, I think he's going to go and state I really do I think that's going to happen. I don't believe that, but you've said that. I really think it's going happen. All right. So Boston, New York Cleveland kind of lingering I don't know about Orlando. Well the two teams to me that people are sleeping on is what Atlanta does And then what U Indiana th Did't zoo was big for them Yeah, I worry about. They would rather have that fifth pick you know or whatever. But G zoop was was they're going to be goodood next year. just what's how Ber going to look like and what's his confidence look? Yeah Probably playing now. I would assume ye Indiana is a wild card And Indiana is the one team that's like we could beat the next. And then the biggest wild card is Detroit, who we didn't mention. What are they going to do with the cat with the with they have all their picks? I'm glad I don't have their decision. They to me They have a franchise defining decision to make and I'm not sure which way you go. And that's what What do you thinks the decision? Dururing that we know how that's going to play out, right whether I'm paying Are they gonna pay them the max? mean are they? If they pay him the max, I just wouldn't do that. Yeah. I mean You can't pay a center the max that's not one bama basically. Yeah. I mean, that's a brutal decision because you don't, you you know, if I was another team with money, you want to mess the business up to be Brooklyn right? Yeah, S's an offers sheet. Isn't Brooklyn the only one with Yeah, there's only two teams, I thought. Yeah. You you get a two for one If they if they sign them back They hurt their team. If they don't sign them, They hurard their team. Well sh I mean, this is no matter how much the NBA changes This has happened every decade. R remember Maclevan in Seattle somebody offer cheated him or whatever and then he made more money than Sean Kemp. I never J C. Johnr Br. That's another one. John Contract. W he was on your team. Yeah youre right. Yeah. Yeah. Who is the madest at that? Kevin Willis? Domine He was making more. He make more than Dominique more than everybody.. It's funny. Dominique had the nightclub. He was f. Yeah. He had twenty once the nightcub. I remember Stan Caston, who was, you know, Dodger Lower now. Yeah. I remember Stan Caston calling me I said, Hey, I need to sit with you in Dominique this situation. And I remember sit and talked about the cck could care less. Right He didn't care less. I was happy for John Conk. I like, what' you turnurn it down Pissons did it to screw us. and and they got and they did. It bothered our team GM was great. McClassk He was great. He was thro. Yeah. He was mad because Stan Casten put an office sheet on James Ewards and he told Isan them the next reagent the hooks hal We're going to bother them And that's why I did Red Arbeck did that with the Kicks. ' they were sniffing around Mcale when Mcale was restricted So he's signing it was like Sly Williams and Marvin went I for who the three guys were and he made the match all R is a great arrow. you know, greatest coach of one of them Bread's the greatest GeM member front off ever feels like he is. Oh, it's if you go by the just how they built the one team. Yeah. You know, they got Jo they got Kevin McKale and Robert Pears for Joe Barry C They draft Danny Aines, knowing he's going to play baseball drafted Bird and drafted Bird the year before. They get DJ for Rick Roby. I way he traded for Bill Russell. Yeah. I mean, oh, I didn't know that. Oh yeah. okay. then it's over Yeah the debate is over there. Yeah. He's like I like that Bill Russell. But you should do a show on who follows after that So I think Psty is in the running. He is now for sure. J because it's because he's nailed the draft picks. And he's made some really good trades and honestly like that and you were there for the ippers And they're like, we need to do this. And he's like I have to have SGA and I have to have all these picks or I'm not doing it. Well, we can't do that. Okay, no trade. But he kind of ws out bomber. This' a great. this is what Sam Prestley learned this time around that he didn't know the first time when he had all the players Giden Say is great. Gid Willams is great You know what changed that team? He went out and got Caruso and Harest thing. Those are the moves you have to learn how to make when you're a front office guy. and Sam didn't know how to make that move early on and now he understands the value of that. Well, that's another team to watch right now because they got D and a team option They've Hartenstein on a team option They're going to they I don't think they'll ever pay second a They' really strange team because They have so many picks, so many players They are looking at this guy and say, well, we can play this guy You know,. They have that Thomas Sorber guy they drafted. Nobody's ever seen what he looks like. They have the riches of all Yeah. so so they could do I that's a team that Atlanta could potentially trade. They could do whatever they want I'm with you in Atlanta, but Atlanta has the same issue that you talked about earlier about. Who's scorn for me in the last four minutes of the game L CJ in those two nicknames. J meed him out. thirty four years old. Yeah, he's thirty four and that's how I looked at that series If you've cut down see that, who's their score? I'm telling you, man If you want to look at a championship team Start with the closers. Well, how about bucks toar Yianis one. It was mostly Middleton. It was Middleton closing. You know, the biggest change that But Buck, I mean, Butud made was Janis had the ball a lot. They took the ball out of Janis's hands They put it in Drew's hands and Chris Middleon says and Yanas became the roller And that two manain combination was unguardable. Unguard And then they put U Hay on Chris Pul to game three or what of game two that changed the whole series. O the way, Jrew Haay Did you know that that could have been the other person they traded theirs garland for? Did you read that? That was a report. Yeah. wow. It was their two' been harden and Drew Holiday. Doid they beat the Kicks or come close with Drew Halliday Yeah. Pret interesting. Yeah That's an interesting guy. He's He's one of the great teammates and team players in the last ten years Is that valuable last twenty. Yeah. is that valuable to your te It's just Everything right De Aaron Fox goinging for the layp, I never got your point card take on this We didn't talk about this. Well, I want you to go back and look at film Doc Rivers steals the ball from my Kem Elijah Game one of the Western Cerence fininals gbed the ball and they threw it a head. You' in San Antoni? on San Antonio Grabb the ball threw a head to Seaan Elliott Sean Pomising to just the clock out, right Taxabasket gets foued. I think he makes one And Robert Ori, who was O four makes a three at the buzer So yeah You drive that darn clock out. Now, he wouldn't have drive the clock out And He would have probably Maybe youve chopped three more seconds off for at least three. But then now the filel to give timing comes in. there were so many things that went wrong there. I mean, why would you fl that was Fox two and half court That kind of got lost in the whole thing. Yeah, no one talked about that. And it looked like Alvarado almost went back almost and I think if he had waited another second, he was going that way. Yeah. But besides that Allvorado wouldn't look the shoe He was looking to get to Bar to Brunson as fast as possible It could have wasted four seconds more It would have been a two second Time out They would have had two seconds and a time out What did you feel about Mitch not calling time out right for Wimby through the ballaway. That's the only thing I didn't like now if I was because it's fast, right? He gets a rebound. he's right in front of him. Yeah, but you knew it was coming. you know, you would been prepared. Let's say I was flipped if I was the next open of color tamer because their're veteran team. R. They know they know what to do And I wouldn't want San Antonio to set their defense up The only reason I would have called it him. and I said it right away. is because they're so young That's it and You know, Winby gets a lot of heat from that, but I'm telling you, if you watch the Spurs play, they are the best advanced pass team in the NBA. They do it every time they grab it and they throw it. Uh and you can see was it Castles Well he his eyes were there and then he turned the wrong way. Would you see the other angle? Yeah point guards to his right. Yeah. And he was looking at this way, but they always for there this hand up. They always threw it ahead. That's what they do And you know, But that one, yeah I'm calling a time out And then in five years, they wouldn't How did you feel about Wemby being thirty feet from the basket on the OG toip play? Andide I didn't that. I said that yesterday You know, you remember them coming out seem they were disisheveled. Yeah. I don't know what happened. There was a good camera behind the basket of they somebody came in that they weren't anticipated. Somebody in Nicks came in that they didn't account for. And the other thing I think is They were surprised OG was taking the ball out U I don't something happened there that I don't know The only thing that I do know is I wouldn't I don't think they wanted Wimby being the guy that trapp Brunson Wouldn't you want Wimby in the paint just to get I would to challenge any drive. I think you put Wimby on towns. Yeah. And you know, there's not going to be a drive. There's going be a shot. And you want your biggest six seconds left. You want your biggest guy under the rim. R He would have been if he had have been on toownwns You know, it would have been there I think that was a tough one. but I think it was still was one of the eight the history of the league. He was on toowns when he came out. You could see him. He was there and then the guards start pointing. I would love to know what actually happened U because something on that floor, one of those guards said, no, you go here I mean, they were they something messed them up and I don't know what it was Mitch Johnson This summer we'll be thinking about why did the ball have to bounce front of the rim straight toward Hji like like what are the ads Perfect It was a brick. It's just like first of all, not only is the perfect bounce. you know how hard it is to tap that in? The ball didn't have to go in. I think that was like a one in one hundred thousand play. It was, but it's also one and one hundred thousand being alert Like a lot of guys would have been standing there He saw it and went for it. And then there's an agago of Vasll comes from the side to try to hit the doll Yeah he probably mip I He was a guy that I thought could have got there a step earlier If Harper gets there step earlier, he's in front of OG So if they if the sppurs win that game, what happens I think the next win the series. I think the Nick won the series anyway. Yeah anyway. I.. I thought I they could go in San Antonio and win it didn't matter. I think it's Clearly, they have five exact same games I think we would have had two more of those games And that's what I want I just wanted more basketball All I have now is a US hen this week in golf Uh Who's your pick That's a good I'm going with Zander Schopfy. That was one of my two. I had Hammer Fleetwood. Yeah. Fleetwood I don't know the length, but I'm going with him and then I think Skotty's going to have a good week this week Is it true you're playing a celebrity tournament? Yeah, I' play You know U the bar has been D you play with Larry? The bar has been Larry is supposed to play with me U I've told NBC that Larry wants to play, right? Larry calls me and says he wants to play Now I you're getting to know Larry But I've known Larry for Yeah, thirty five weeks. Th are my favorite buddy cop com. Yeah. There's one hundred percent chance If Larry commits, he's going to back out Yeah, All Larry needs is the night before we're leaving to hit a shot and it goes wrong And he's out. That's it. There's no way Larry I still can't believe he went to game four After the game three loss, I thought it was one hundred percent chance he's flying back. Trust me, there was conversation about it. It's also He told me if he could have left at halfime of game three. He would He would have just was thinking about it.. But it did give us onene of the single funniest videos in the history of the MAA, the Josh Charot layup. And then he gave me the greatest texts in game three. I'm sitting there watching and I get a text and it's just, Hey Can you tell your buddy Mitch standing in my way Can you ask him to please move? He's blocking his v blocking Larry said the whole game. he's trying to look around. He said, I can deal with Mitch, but then they had this other guy. his assistant. Yeah. he kept jumping up. and I was like, that's you too It's a current episode. It ch on It was funny ack Rivers Goods seeing you. studio. Thanks for coming over. This is a blast. Ay Bill has an amazing house, people It's amazing. B dooc. Yes nice That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Doc Rivers, thanks to Gahal and Eduardo as well. Don't forget Um rewatchables, H that rocks the cradle That one is already up, domestic disturbance Next week, please watch us this. John Trabalto, Vincefon trying to be a bad guy. really special movie I think I'm gonna have one more podcast before the end of the week. So we'll try to have something Hopefully Thursday or Thursday night heading into The second USA. W a Cup socer g See you l in the week He Must be twenty one plus in President select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino