Knicks and Hawks Series Update

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I have a new rewatchables coming tomorrow. We are doing uh Ghostbusters. A really famous gigantic movie. Uh don't forget about Legata, our new uh scripted narrative series as well from the ringer. Um we're coming the Lakers Rockets game isn't even over yet, Zach Lo . The Rockets laid one on the uh depleted Lakers today, and I'm gonna start here. No NBA team has ever come back from three O . It's true. It's true. And even I think you're right that the game is still going on. I don't even think the twenty twenty six Rockets can blow this one. I think we're safe uh I think we're safe going live right now. A 25-point lead with three minutes left. I don't think any catastrophe can befall them at this point. But you remember the last time a team got close to coming back from a three-hour deficit, you probably remember it very, very well. And it didn't happen. It almost happened back. Yeah, it almost happened. And then Jason Tatum sprained his ankle and then that was it. I went to game seven and Tatum sprained his ankle right in front of us. And Oh, that's the meme. That's sad bill. That's that game. I think that was Sad Bill. Oh, what a yeah, that was the that started Sad Bill. Um all right. The Kevin Millar theory. Don't let us get one. Don't let us get two from the two thousand four ALC against the Yankees. So the Rockets, they've got one. Now they're coming to LA. I think it's they spread it out. So I think it's a Wednesday night game. So I assume we'll have Reeves. Next Wednesday? Two Wednesdays from now? No, this Wednesday. Three day I assume we'll have Reeves. No Luca. I've heard Luca's not even that are not even close yet. Um did you the Rockets show you anything in this game today that made you think A they're starting to incorporate strategy into the series ? Uh and and and maybe some things that might work against an old weird Lakers team. 'Cause I felt like they had a couple things going tonight. I mean, thing number one was they actually made Luke Kennard play defense and didn't let him just hang out. I I know it took four games. Uh unbelievable. They didn't hang out off the ball the time. I'm in Thompson attacked him and they just like he was on Tar Easton. Tar Easton even just blew by him at one point. Just gave Tar Easton the ball. Jabari Smith hunted him in a switch. And this has kind of been fun . Without KD, it's been fun to watch guys like Jabari Smith Jr. get to do a little bit more and really stretch their wings. Um that that was one. And just they're they have this kind of defensive gear in them when they have their best defenders on the floor. They can get a lot of steals. Even Reed Shepard, who's getting hunted. I mean, LeBron is just being so mean to Reed Shepard, just constantly. But he had a couple steals today. They picked LeBron. They had a couple, they picked them at half court a couple of times. They can create a lot of turnovers. Lakers had 20 something turnovers the last time I checked. And yeah, so that strategically, that would be the main one. I noticed those two things. I also noticed they were a little more physical and relentless with LeBron trying to put some miles on him. Reed Shepherd came into the game. Wasn't wasn't going well. Well, but he he stayed with it, which I cause I felt I really felt like his there was a fork in the road moment potentially for him where it was like, wow, could this series be so damaging that it might actually be hard for him to recover? But I th I thought he gained momentum as this game went along. And then , you know, l last but not least, the leadership of Kevin Durant on the bench. Could you care to elaborate on that? Well, you know, he wasn't there for game three because he was getting round-the-clock treatment on his uh spra ined ankle and uh and couldn't come out because it's 20 24 hour i don't know they were talking about he was running on a treadmill underwater i i I'll believe any sort of durant treatment story. But uh I don't know why we we still don't have an answer why he wasn't out there for game three. There was some weird stuff about how he was actually they did the walk into the arena before game three that was on social, I think, for the Rockets and for the NBA, and then that clip was taken down the next day. Just a lot of weirdness. Okay. I didn't, I was not aware. Okay. There was some uh some people saying the teammates saying, well, we hadn't we don't know what's going on with him. And then apparently it's all fine now and and it was always fine. And we weren't supposed to doubt it at all that he didn't sit on the bench. I mean, I it struck me as odd that he wasn't out there on the bench that's that and normally an injured player is is there of that status. Um it it did strike me as odd. And uh yeah, I mean, uh I still don't know when this injury happened. Um, like when in game two, I guess would what did it happen? But I will say this, like for all the weirdness you want to ascribe to Kevin Durant and there's been quite a lot. The one constant of this guy's career is he's a gamer. He plays. He loves to play. He played a ton of games this year. He played in the finals . He played second and minutes. He played in the finals against the Raptors when it maybe he shouldn't have and it cost him a year of his career. Like I like the guy plays. And so I don't I don't know when this injury happened. And maybe like to your point, if they're actually gonna make a run at this, and we're like a long way from there given how bad they looked in the first three games. They're gonna need Kevin Durant. They can't win three more games without Kevin Durant It was weird. You and I know a lot of NBA people and it was hard to get a straight answer for what happened on Friday n ight. And we still don't totally know. It was it was a little strange. Yeah. I expect I expected him. It it was funny. I was watching a game and only sometime in the second or third quarter did it jot did it like jog in my brain like,, oh, it's weird that I haven't seen any shots of Kevin Durant on the bench. Like normally that's a thing that just happens when a star player is out. Do you just cut to them? What are they wearing? What's their reaction? Fred Van Vliet is all over the television. And and you know, just but they w on tonight. And they they're still winning. They are still ahead, Bill. They have not collided down to nineteen with a minute and fourteen seconds left. Oh. Well, on FanDuel right now, and this might change, the Lakers are minus eight fifty to win the series Safe which safe bet again, no one's ever done it Seems fair. Um couple Houston things. Oh so the Lakers today that after three, they're down twenty-five points, and they were two for thirteen from three . In game three, they were twelve for twenty-nine from three. In game three, they were also down by six points with thirty seconds left, and somehow forced overtime, which was like one of the only times in the history of the NBA that's happened. Do you think this series should be 2-2? Or do you think 3-1 is the right score for the series? I think I think 3-1 is pr is pretty representative. Um the first two games, I mean they were close. They were close-ish, but the Lakers felt like the more prepared and the better team the whole time. And by the way, considering that yeah, Durant has missed what, three or the four games, uh, Luca and Reeves have missed all of them. And yeah, it just this feels like a correct score of the series to me. And I realized like KD is miss three, Fred Van Vliet's out for the season, Steven Adams like the Rockets are missing lots of guys. It's totally fair, but I just expected better in those in those first two games and particularly the one Durant played. You know who they're also missing? IODSunmu. Yeah, well and I went on uh I did a Google because I had a vague memory of of the Rockets kicking the tires with him and went down a tower east and rabbit hole. Do you remember this? Uh no. Inform me. Joe Cali reported on it, who I think he covers them for the Sun Times, the Bulls. Yeah, he's a Bulls guy. Bulls, Bulls rehporter. Yeah, Rockets would refuse to discuss Tar Eason for IO. Now, Io's gonna be a UFA at the end of the year, and Tar Eason's an RFA at the end of the year. So I c I could see like you could make the case he had more value. It's just an interesting what if . Because I would say I o, even before what we've seen in this series, was probably more with the rockets needed than Tyre Eason, who's been really up and down and has been uh incredibly erratic as a shooter and is a little redundant with some of the other guys they have. Interesting trade. I mean or non trade. I mean, I don't know that that's true, but it would not surprise me at all if that were true that the Rockets shut down that talk because they do value their own guys very highly. They value two-way guys very highly. I mean I was a two a two-way guy, but Tar Eason has obviously much more size, the restricted versus the unrestricted thing. I I also just wonder if you know the Rockets, once the injuries started to mount up and the teams above them look so good, just kinda we're like I it' its's gonna be I mean Rafael Stone said something like this and has since walked it back, but just like the idea that we're this is not the year for us to make like big splashy and not that that's a big splashy move, but we're not rocking the boat because it's just it's not gonna happen for us this ye ar. I understand that logic, but then at the same time you're giving Duran a two year extension for ninety million dollars when he's gonna be thirty eight next year. That would be the that'd be the counter. Well, I mean that's it's been the it's been the weird dissonance of their team. Like it was why I never got the uh oh it's a it this uh the phrase blessing in disguise was thrown around much too cavalierly when Fred Van Vliet got hurt. Like, oh, we'll learn about Reed Shepherd and Ahmed Thompson and what they can do. I'm like, that's awesome. You're trying to win the championship this year. That's why you get Kevin Durant, who has um next year and then a player option in 27, 28. If they report it is picking that up. Wait, if they lose this series in five games, let's just say game five goes badly and they lose. Is he on the Rockets next year? I had it in my notes. You know, I would leave no. I'm just gonna come out and say I would say I would lean no. So I was a hard no, because I think whatever happened Friday, we won we won't fully find out until, as Brian Curtis calls it, the uh now they tell us story that happens after the year that's probably gonna happen with the Red Sox tomorrow. Um because the Red Sox who have a robot GM who's put together a terrible roster and has made bad trades, uh decided it was everybody else's fault and they fired Alex Cora, who won the 2018 title with us and five of his coaches. It was his fault. At least you didn't get swept in a doubleheader by the Colorado Rockies by a combined score of six to one today. Why am I complaining about my baseball team to you . But um It's been a it's been a great season. I'm having a lot of fun so so I'm Fry so I was in the mindset of obviously Katie's out now. This is s there's too much smoke here. I don't trust this, plus the whatever happened all-star weekend with the burner. It seems like he'll be moving on, which by the way will be the fourth time he'd be moving on when you count 2019 Warriors. Not not the happiest uh last season there. Nets can't say that was the good ship lollipop. Uh suns . Can't be a good one It's first good ship lolli pop reference I've heard of quite a long time. Thank you. Um and now this one. The problem is where does it go? If you if I always say this exercise when I have friends in my life who are like, well, they opposite trade them. I'm like, all right, go on spot track , go on uh whatever that fan trade site is and try to find me the team. Be like, oh who maybe he'll go home to Washington. Okay, for who? They have two giant contracts and a bunch of small ones. Who are the who are they getting? Like just go through all the rosters. And I did find a team, Zach. I I first of all, I feel bad for your friends if you're just lecturing them about trade machine mechanics. Just trying to have fun and you're like, you know, spot track, get on spoon track. You know what the second apron is? Like, okay. All right, I was just, I don't know I was just trying to have a little fun. Uh could I take can I say two teeth the names of two teams, and I'll bet one of them is your team. Okay, go. Heat Knicks. No, head neither. He can't. He can't go to the Knicks. I'm gonna veto that. Okay. Well here . No, I just I just think that's a bad idea for everybody involved. Well here's him on this all I'm all I'm saying is this. This is this playoffs already has been a great reminder that the postseason stress tests your roster, like no other environment, like nothing compared to the regular season. If you have a weakness, if you have any chemistry issues, if you have anything, it's naked in the playoffs. They expose you naked. And that's what's happening to the Nuggets in a lot of ways right now, which we talk about later. So, like whatever happens in the playoffs to a bunch of these teams, there's going to be realiz ations that they learn and moves that they make because of how the playoffs exposes them a little bit. So those that's the only thing I'll say about that. That's fair. I like the Miami idea . As you know, I am all in on LeBron going to Golden State next year. Okay. Can I can I have Kevin Durant and Clay Thompson join him ? Let's go full expendables. Kevin Durant and Clay Thompson to Golden State. Butler's expiring to Houston. We'll throw Clint Capella and whatever else makes the small salaries make it work to Dallas. Maybe they get a second round pick. Okay. Maybe Houston gets something. And we end up with the Houston gets something. Houston will get something. They'll get a future pick or swap, whatever. And Golden State ends up with LeBron, Curry, Durant, Klay Thompson, Draymond Green, and Al Horford. Let's fucking go. The expendables are here. What you USA, Dream Team, 202 4. Run it back. Even I would be rooting for this team. Who's not first of all, every game they play, every game they play, sell out. Couldn't be harder to get tickets, half the fans rooting for the uh Warriors wherever we go. Steve Kirk comes back now, two more years for him, and we're off. We're ready to go. Is we we already had the Warriors tried to trade for Kevin Durant a couple of seas last season and him being like That was two teams ago. Now he now he's now he's ready to reconsider. He should have gone. Maybe maybe his mistake was he shouldn't done it. For entertainment purposes, it sounds great. Um I I like that. Like Wemby and the Thunder just demand everyone's coming together. All the old guys like we c we just we can't beat 'em apart. We don't like these young guys that are not ready. Blah blah blah. Let's let's all come together. Kevin Durant, he's been unhappy in a lot of places. You know where he was never unhappy? Defending our country with his American stars, with LeBron James and Steph Curry. He fit right in with those guys. He just put him in Golden State. I'm down with it. Let's bring Clay back. Clay's having a rough week. I know you don't follow this stuff, but had a breakup. Oh, I I got it. Okay, you're following that. I well first I I I have a a lot of uh friends whose consumption of the NBA is entirely through that lens. So I got a lot of Megan the Stal the Stallion, Megan the Stallion. Yes. Uh a lot of Klay Thompson text from those people. And I was like, I I don't have time. There's eight games this week and I don't have time to really dive into it but she seemed to put them on blast as the kids say. I don't know what happened. I have no comment. There was some blasting. I hope everybody's happy. I hope everyone is happy and that's it. I hope Rocco the dog if he's still alive is happ Well we talk about San Antonio in the next segment, and they were jaw dropping in the second half of that Portland game. OKC has been jaw dropping for two straight years. There's no way to solve putting together a super team to beat either of those teams unless you do the expendables . I mean and Curry's like Curry can I think be really good once a week at this point. We're talking about during the course of a season. He can he can't do what he did five years ago anymore. But I think once a week, and if he's at and if you play him 60 games and kind of pace him for the playoffs, I think LeBron's the same way. Durant loves playing big minutes. Klay Thompson back home. I don't know. Damian Lillard . Oak Bay Area Oakland legend Damian Lillard has a pretty tradable salary. You want to get find a way to get him involved in this? Didn't even think of him. Do we have room in the expendables for him? I don't know. Absolutely. I actually thought we'd see Dame Lower this weekend. They got they kind of wet my appetite with that one. Yeah. Can we have a can we have a moratorium on the eyes emoji tweets teams? Just you just can't tweet like Dami Lillard doing stuff at Eyes Emoji and then be like, well, no, it's just a tweet. Just some cool video of our guy Dame. So what would you get rid of first? The eyes emo ji or anytime I foul anyone and I'm any player in the league, I want my team to review it. No, I like I like that because it it's again, like I like when players are exposed for I like when anyone is exposed for ridiculous behavior. So I like that. And I will say my favorite motion though is the flopping motion. I like how dramatic and and broad it is. And I love when entire benches make it. Sometimes you make it with two hands. I I like that one to o . Quick on Durant . Might have to save this for it's early. We're not there yet. Well You know, he he he was pretty high in my pyramid at one point. And he's been going backwards over the last couple years . Basically based on how this decade has gone and some of the things that have happened with his team. Cause sometimes with the pyramid, you're projecting, oh, it's going to keep going a certain way. And then you kind of go underneath where you thought, and then you have to reevaluate. Um he is definitely dropped backward. Do you think that's fair? I mean and also a a couple of like uh uh other players like Jokic have have soared upwards, so naturally someone has to drop backwards. Steph keeps you know, putting up Steph numbers every year. And by the way, you mentioned like the only reason I mentioned Nixon Heat, not the only reason, is just because you mentioned um Oklahoma City and San Antonio and how can we possibly compete with these teams. So get out of the conference. Yeah. Step one to do it is get me the hell over to the East and at least I only gotta be one of them. Right. The thing with uh it's funny how people talk about KD because his career's been so long, they just kind of forget stuff like how good he was on OKC. And those OKC teams were really successful. They made the finals, they had three conference finals losses. He was an MVP. He finished second in MVP three times. Um they , you know, they unfortunately blew the last two against the two thousand fourteen Spurs and they l blew the last three to the Warriors in two thousand sixteen. And I thought those teams were good enough to win the title and they didn't get it done. But you go to the Warriors where everybody says that, you know, he was carried by those guys and he was fucking awesome those three years. I mean, in the playoffs, 48 games, including with the year he got hurt, it was 30 a game and 48 playoff games, 37 and 5. He was the best guy on those teams, and those teams had Steph Curry. I mean I don't I don't think you need to to do even do this. He's we all he's the two times. I actually feel like I need to do it because I think people are forgetting now that how good he was on the Warriors. He won finals MVP both years. There was like in the in the first one this is why I want to bring this up. In the first one where he makes the dagger from the left wing over LeBron, there was the whole conversation of like, has he taken the best player in the world belt from LeBron? And it that was like a whole thing that happened. And I think he was taking it in two thousand nineteen when he got hurt. And then in twenty one with the foot on the line against Milwaukee, what he did that series was great. The problem is this decade swept by Boston in twenty two, um, lost to Denver in six in twenty-three, lost the last two, swept in twenty-four, didn't make the playoffs last year, almost swept this year, but they won tonight . And you know, that's that's put a little bit of a black cloud over everything. It's a really tough career. I think out of all the careers, like in the top thirty, the toughest ones to really evaluate are him and Wilt . Wilt you can go all over the place with it. You could, you could make a real case. He was one of the five best guys ever, and you can use all these stats and all these things that he did. And then Durant is gonna what is he gonna be second in points by the time he retires? All these playoff games, all these minutes, the fact that he's gonna play for twenty years, the finals MVP twice, all these really strong cases for him . And yet it really only peaked when he was on this unbelievable Warriors team. So I see both sides of the argument. I do not think he has helped his cause the last couple of years, I will say that. And also uh pretty underrated or depending on how you consume the NBA, properly rated, like very good defender for most of his career. Yeah. Well, like just a just a like a pretty like made in a lab all around superstar player. Could play with anybody, could play with any kind of other co-star, just like not nothinghing bad to say about about his game at all. Maybe this summer we should just do like an hour and a half KD pod. Sure. We might have to just completely deep dive it. Because I I think there's really not been a career like this. Um okay, Celtic Sixers. Yeah . Celtics were unbelievable. When cat when Peyton Pritchard scores 28 plus points the last two years, they're 15 and 0. It felt like he had 65 points tonight at one point. I was just like, is he just made 12 baskets in a row? Is this ever gonna stop? It was Kobe's 81-point game, but he only had 32 points. Uh they're 24 and one when he scores 25 plus points. That's not where I'm gonna start. We finished, we taped uh a big chunk of this pod before uh right before the Celtic Sixers game because there's a window. We want to get stuff done so we can get it up faster. Um I we came out of the room and the game had started and I saw Embiid on the court and I and as a Celtic fan, I was like, oh my god, this is great. I was excited that he was playing. Wow. Um, no reflection on Embiid as a player. I just think to introduce him into the series halfway through when he hasn't played when he's rusty, combined with how good I thought the Sixers played on Friday night. And I really thought they found something with the smaller lineups and the defensive identity they had. I thought the Celtics like really pulled it out of their ass in that game. They had to make a couple of huge shots. Philly easily could have won it. I thought Maxie was really comfortable attacking them. And uh and you could just feel it today. I I thought Embiid by no fault of his own um completely discombobulated them. And I he was minus twenty-five and it felt that way. Yeah, I I honestly am I'm surprised he came back. I did I just hit I mean it's it's uh appendicitis or whatever it is. It's a it's a big deal and he came back pretty pretty early from it. Uh I thought he looked pretty good, all things considered. Like like sure, you know, earlier this season he would he wasn't dunking at all. And he had an explosive dunk. He had a couple of explosive defensive rotations. All of his pet shots seemed to just roll around and go out or rattle in and out like you just so close, but not going in. And yeah, you're right that they had, you know, I thought ma it's funny, I watched um game three and then I checked the box score the next morning. Maxi was twelve for thirty one, I think, and it did not it it felt much more efficient than that to me because I just felt like the Celtics toggled between a bunch of different pick and roll coverages over the courses of game two and three and he figured out a way to kind of solve all of them and in different ways getting to the rim, pulling up for three, passing. And I it just it felt like an even better game than twelve for thirty-one to me. And that because that game three felt scary for Boston. It felt very winnable for Philly and and Pritchard made a huge three. Tatum made a tough three. Like it was a tough, tough game. This was never a tough game. And when the Celtics make threes like this, they're very hard to beat. Yeah, the problem , and this is almost like a basketball IQ test. Because yeah, he had point, he had, he had points good stats. But defensively, he really hurts them against Boston because it's just you can always pull him into screens and stuff and get threes that you want. He does the offensive rebounding, I think, is a problem when he's out there. And uh I just think they seem way slower and more kind of lumbering versus the team Friday night. I thought the Celtics were really lucky to win Friday night. And if Mbi didn't play today, I f I I genuinely felt like the Celtics might lose tonight unless they had like a Pritchard game or something like that. The thing is, Pritchard hadn't done that yet. And he's usually good for that once or twice a series, but um I don't know. I just thought I thought it screwed them up a little bit. Like Ubre, I don't think made a field goal. Um I thought Maxie, it took him it felt like it took him an hour just to be like, hey, is it okay if I can run some of the offense too? And they were just constantly trying to work him in. I also thought Bona , I I thought the Bona Drummond combo was was fairly effective, and I thought Paul George has been really good for him all series. I I think he's gone toe to toe with Brown and Tatum in a lot of ways. And if there's a bright spot for the Sixers in this series, it's that I think they've resuscitated him as like I don't think he's untradeable . I mean, he had a huge second half uh of game three. And tonight um he was, you know, sixteen points on six to thirteen, but made all his threes. He had a couple takes against Jalen Brown. Like he had an ISO against Jalen Brown where he kind of bullied him and and shoved it forward the basket later. It was like, ooh, he's been settling for tough fadeaways a lot. And the Celtics will live with that, even if it's over Derek White or like on a switch against Peyton Pritchard. They're fine with that. They're not going to double him. But that one was like, whoa, that's that looked like Paul George right there. Can I like here's I thought his defense was good too for for the most part, especially in the first half. I think he's been resuscitated as it's not inconceivable that you could get rid of him though. That's a great feeling, right? When if the when your six years like he's playing well now we can trade him. This is like this is like that's we can't even enjoy him playing well. It's already we're just like he's playing well. Great. Call somebody . That's that's kind of how you have to think though when you have him and embiede, right? You have a hundred million dollars hundred and ten million dollars of guys that you don't know how reliable they're gonna be. So would you have sat embied? Would you have just said, you know what, we're I wouldn't have played him tonight. I would have waited for him for game five and I wanted to I would have I personally would have waited for game four because I would have been really, really encouraged by how my team looked in game three. Especially because like Edgecombe, his threes now and the three losses, he's 0 for 16 from three, right? He couldn't hit a three on Friday and they were still in that game . Um I don't know. I just I thought going smaller against the Celtics was really working in their favor because the Celtics were in the city. They played Vooch like 30 plus minutes in game three. A lot of Vooch. I didn't I didn't really love fifteen minutes of Booch, much like thirty in that game. And I I thought over and over again they were using and abusing him in the screens and getting threes over him and just figuring out ways to take advantage of him being out there. He's just too slow coming out on the screens. But with the beat out there, all of a sudden now the Celtics could just play all their centers, get a lot of, you know, they've 18 fouls with those three guys. Even when Garza was out there, it's like Garza's gonna shoot over Embiid every time he gets it, which I think he did once. Yeah, I know they're not gonna say embiat don't play, but I I I wonder if you gave Nick Nurse true serum would have been happy with it. I so like your your game plan would have been let's wait till our backs are against the wall. If we lose and it's three one, then all bets are off. Wild card, bring them out, but let's give this current team tonight to try to even up this series after their perfor I get I get that. I just think the the the the uh the mileage on the maxie do everything offense is is just gonna expire against a a really good team and they just need another another layer of offense, but integrating that other layer was was a little, you know, slip shot for parts, a little like a little wonky for parts of today. So in the Friday game , the Celtics were forty four percent shooting and forty three percent from three. It's pretty good. Yeah, they did yeah. Today they made twenty four threes. That's a lot. 45%. Um, and I actually thought I thought they got great shots the entire game. It was actually one of those games. They scored 128 . They easily could add 150. Like they missed a bunch of free throws in the first half. Um, the Jays were terrible in the first half, and then the third quarter just became the Jays, and I thought really complimented each other well. And then, you know, Pritchard, who's in the running for weirdest career of the decade , where he plays four solid years , where I d I don't even think he averaged eight points a game, maybe like eight and a half. He wanted to be traded, remember? Yeah. And I I gotta say the uh a lot of the Celtic fans were like this guy's good. When this guy plays, he's gonna be good if he can ever get a chance. He just he was always buried behind guards. Last year's sixth man of the year. This year averaging seventeen a g ame and is just perfect for the team they have because they do so much of this one-on-one attacks, one-on-one attack stuff. And he's really great at it. He's he's really like you saw the whole tricks and everything today, plus Reggie Miller's there. Um, they're gonna have to redo his contract this summer, I think. And I I think I actually think they're allowed to extend it, but um he's I think one of the best contracts in the league, if not the best. Seven million a year. Right. He is extend it looks like according to Spot Track or Spot Track or whoever you say it, he is extension eligible this summer. Yeah, he's got two more guaranteed years after this, it's seven point seven and eight point three. Uh I'd have to look back and refamiliarize myself with how much they're allowed to add on the extension. Um, what the percentage is. It's it's probably one of those ones where it's like it might not even be worth it for him to do it. Um Austin Reef style, better off like to wait. But I also think he wants to stay in Boston. They're gonna have they're gonna have an interesting offseason no matter what happens. Well he's they've got money to spend, you know, they're trade exceptions. He's just a really good player. Like I remember I I I picked him as sixth man of the year last year. Uh there was like a Malik Beasley, Peyton Pritchard kind of debate, and I was just like, Yeah, just a better basketball player than Bleak Beasley. He's a he defends, he passes, he's tough, he's physical, he can score in different kinds. He's just a really good player. Offensive rebounding he'll sneak in and see all of it. Like wow wait Pritchard has four offensive rebounds today. I sadly took Beasley . Um I think I was trying too hard not to be a homer and and uh and and swung too far the other way with Beasley. So the other thing I don't want to talk about Tatum every podcast, even though I secretly do as you say, yeah, you do. He's just I just can't believe how good he looks on some of these drives. First of all, he played forty two minutes on Friday, which is nuts. If you had told me two months ago, hey, in game three, Jason Tatum will play 42 minutes in a regular playoff game. Like, well that sounds insane. We're gonna do that. Um definitely did it. Uh he he was explosive. His three point looks great now. Like he's got a nice snap on it. And uh it's interesting. He's getting better. Jalen seems like he's having a harder time getting to his spots than he's had all season. And I don't know if it's because Philly has him scouted really well, but this is a guy who was scoring on like pretty easily on people like Lou Dort during the season. In this Philly series, it's just a lot of like feels like he's like a battering ram trying to just like get to his spots and bang into people and s swing his arms. Like he got I think he had two offensive fouls today, but uh it just it either they're scouting him great or he's starting to wear down. But I that was that worried me a little bit. I'm I'm not worried. Um okay I'm I'm just I mean it's they're uh clearly a better basketball team with the two of them. It's gonna go up and down a little bit about who scores the most points, who has the ball the most, all that kind of stuff. Uh there's been games like where Jalen I I thought uh may I can't remember which game it was, but there was one game where they started hunting they've they're hunting Maxi all the time, but they down the stretch they made it clear like Jalen, you're gonna be the guy to hunt Max becauseie you 're just having a better night. Um I I'm not I'm not worried about it. But I've I mean the stat that jumps out today is the eleven assists that Tatum had. I thought his playmaking was awesome and they're just making Boston's offense is both beautiful and simple at the same time, and sometimes within the same possession. They're just those guys just get the matchup, they draw help, and they're just making the base the simple reads. And Tatum was just spraying it out and you know, just really I mean, again, eleven dimes, that's a lot . Dream situation is they clinch game five Tuesday. Nick's Atlanta goes seven, and they just get to put their feet up and rela x and do the whole thing. I I really wish Baylor Shireman would play a little bit more would be my one critique. I think he's been lights out when he's coming into these games and really additive and I wish he would get more minutes. Quick mailbag stuff before uh we take a break. Um Adam writes in the Iodesun move forty three point game feels eerily similar to Jalen Brunson's coming out party post-luke injury in the 2022 Utah series . Um are there some parallels for is he starting to bump his free agent salary up? He isn't like an unrestricted free agent this year. Now, Minnesota can go over whatever to try to get him. But could you see a Jalen Brunson Nick somebody going big on him and giving him like $1 10 million for four years or something? I could I mean it the I'm not sure any of the cap room teams fit, but that doesn't necessarily prevent things like that from happening. I mean I c I could because that's we're in a world where that's not like max money. It's not, it's not, it's it's a lot, but he's probably worth like 20 plus. I mean, that that's probably his value for sure. I think if for sure his value is above that. The Brunson thing is like, well, he like could he be the number one option on an elite NBA offense? I'm not I'm not sure I'm ready to go there because Brunson has the kind of physicality. Um but he's a really good player. I was really good. It's again, like we talk about it later, but just I don't know what the Bulls were like what's the rush? Like we did dive into that. We have a good player, we don't want him. Okay . I was thinking the market's between 20 and 25, but then you put the free agent craziness tax on it. And maybe it does get to like 1 10 for four years. Maybe somebody's like, this is Derek White . This is like Nikilo. I think he could be the lead guard on a really good team. The lead guard. Yeah, like the best guard you have. Not necessarily your number one scorer, not your number one playmaker, but like you need a real apex playmaker then. Yeah. But I think he could be your best two-way guard on a good team. That's that I don't disagree. He's really good. Uh Rob from Philly wants to know if the Ewing Theory Committee was dispatched to Atlanta to figure out whether Trey Young and the Hawks the eligibility of that. We did send some people down to Atlanta and they rejected Trey's application. They decided he was not good enough. Oh . Yeah. It's a it's a rare situation because four years ago you might have said so, but uh nobody was like, Wow, what are the Hawks gonna do now without Trey Young? And that's like it was it was too predictable. Yeah. Can I can I just like the Ewing theory ? I I just it's it's I'm a little angry lately about it because it's now so pervasive that when Francisco Lindor , my daughter's favorite player, got hurt earlier this week, I got multiple texts from people because he's been struggling this season. Is the ewing theory, is the ewing theory in play for Francisco Lindor? No, screw you, people. Don't bombard me with that kind of stuff. Well, Dave, do you win it? Did you win a World Series with Francisco Lindor then he's eligible? We did not. Yeah, there you go. Um somebody named Duran once had a long Durant email that ends with the question: Is Kevin Durant the Michael Jordan of good stats, bad team guys? This is my point of bringing up the Durant stuff earlier. Like, I'm telling you, people are losing their mind with this durant thing. These are the emails I'm getting. I mean Yeah, I'm the the answer is no. No The answer is definitely no. Most of his teams have been not bad. There's been on a bad teams. Kyle wants to know. Kyle wants to know is CJ just Dame with worse PR? Oh my. Or is Dame CJ with better PR? They're both excellent basketball players. Damian Lows had a better career. Uh is his PR good? I don't know. Is his PR very good? I mean d this thing is cool. The the the watch thing is cool. He's made a bunch of big shots. Um CJ's awesome. If CJ can beat the Knicks, these two out of the next three and and parade into the next round and try to go toe to toe with the Celtics, it's not a closed discussion. I just can't. I mean, you have to sit back for a second. I mean, he is like murdering the Knicks in crunch time. It's like like he's Michael Jordan. It's like every play, CJ and get out of the way. And you have to sit back and remember like he was on the wizards for like most of the season he was just over in Washington yeah doing stuff and now he's like the the biggest clutch force in the playoffs so far. It's almost like a actor that was on uh I don't know, one of those fire shows on NBC . New York Fire. Is that a show? Probably. Chicago Fire. Chicago Fire is definitely. He's like a famous movie actor, but now it's like, oh, he's the number three guy on Chicago Fire. This is too bad. And now all of a sudden he's in, you know, a Christopher Nolan movie. And they're like, oh, this is wow, CJ, he's back. Last question. You and you and Zach, this is from Ryan from Milwaukee. You and Zach both gush over Jokic all season long . While he might be one of the best offensive players of all time, he's a cone on defense. Forgets to shoot how to shoot threes in the playoffs, and he only has one ring. Give me Duncan over him, and it's not close. Did did any did any of us put him above Tim Duncan? I mean, you and I are like president of the Tim Duncan is that's an that's another one that is the ye ars pass people are starting to forget about Tim Duncan too. There was this great clip. He turned 50 by the way. Happy birthday, Tim Duncan. That's great. And there's this Twitter account called NBA History, and they ran this clip of Duncan congrat Duncan and LeBron congratulating Duncan after the 07 finals. LeBron's like a baby. He's like 22. And he's like, hey, great series. And and Duncan says to him, Yo, I love I love what a good teammate you are. Keep it up. Keep doing what you're doing. Like he doesn't praise him about how well he's playing. He's specifically praises him on being a teammate and his connection with everybody else. And to me, that's Tim Duncan in a nutshell, and that's why I always ride for the guy. Like he wasn't about the stats. He could have averaged twenty-five and twelve if he wanted to. He was very happy, twenty and ten and being an awesome teammate. Like he sounds like a mentally healthy youth sports parent, basically like I'm so proud of you. Here's this little mini trophy. Um all right, so we think Celtics won in five? Yeah . What about Lakers ? I'm gonna give the Rockets another game and say it gets a little frisky and Lakers win in six . Okay . I I not only agree , I actually I think it's six or seven. I thought LeBron looked a little uh little gamey. You forget he's I don't know if you know this, but he's forty one years old. You are I I mean He looked a little gamey tonight. We do have to have every and I I he deserves it. He deserves it. Absolutely deserves it. But we do it's like I think it's in the broadcast partners contract that there needs to be a two minute soliloquy about LeBron's fitness and how much attention he pays to his body every game. It just like what it doesn't matter if you do it every game. It's just all right, it's the eight minute bar of the second quarter. Grant, Grant Hill, you take you the floor is yours. I want people to start doing that about me. It's like Bill Simmons, 25 years now, columns and podcasts. You know, he walks every day, saunas , eats really healthy. Like this guy, it's amazing how he takes care of himself. Tell people out there to do that for me. Okay. I'll do it. I'll give it a shot. So you're more depressed about the Mets than I'm depressed about the Red Sox, it sounds like uh it's a devastating turn of events. Fantasy had like multiple tweets today. He's he's like he turns into the unibomber every once in a while and there's these long missives about the Mets. He's having a rough I mean it's been it's a disaster. It's an absolute like this has the Mets have been have like the Vince Coleman firework season, the Bobby Bonia contract. There's like a lot of just embarrassing Mets stuff. This has the potential to just be they they have they I think I saw stat they've scored two or fewer runs in half their games this season. They have the highest payroll in major league baseball. Baseball is different than basketball because in basketball if you spend money on guys, it usually works out . Yeah. It's like it's like, oh, we've signed Giannis. He's 32. This is probably gonna work out. In baseball, you sign somebody and their career is over like the next day. And you're like, I we stole you 280 million dollars. By the way, you can't hit anymore. Longest longest into any podcast we've ever done before Giannis was mentioned and mentioned as a baseball related aside, no less. Yeah, true. Giannis . A lot of time to talk about him this summer. All right, we're gonna take a break. We're gonna come back. We're gonna talk about uh an incredible Spurs comeback . What's going on with the Nuggets, the Knicks game for all the other basketball storylines is next. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA postseason is here, and FanDuel knows the only thing better than watching your favorite team win is winning along. with them FanDuel, the best place to bet the teams, players, and plays during their playoff run. 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When it's marathon work session versus you, give no quits. Shop at a Duluth Store near you or at Duluth Trading.com . All right, we just hopped in a time machine and went backwards to six o'clock Eastern Time to talk about the other six games in round one coming off Spurs Blazers. A terrifying San Antonio Spurs performance, Zach Lowe. This is the one that you're watching the second half, and if you're every other pla yoff team, the hairs on your arms are are going up . Yeah. Uh as we're recording this, the Blazers have thirty-two points in the second half of an NBA basketball game, which by Cavs, Raptors standards earlier in the day is actually not so bad. Last yeah, but but an absolutely terrifying Wemby defensive performance in the second half. And then you throw in like, oh, De'Aaron Fox, hey, I remember that guy, all-star De'Aaron Fox just making step back threes over everybody. Spurs are figuring out counters to all the weird defensive schemes the Blazers are using. But Wemby, Wemby was just everywhere. And the Blazers, look, like the Blazers are not a good offensive team. They're not a good shooting team. They're a horrendous turnover team. So like it's not as if they did this to the you know, number one or two offense of the NBA, but it was legitimately like, oh my God. They're on the road. That counts for something. Yeah. Um, also game three, when Scoot, I was I was really having a moment on Friday night with Scoot taking it to Dylan Harper, and then we learned a valuable lesson. You don't talk shit to Dylan Harper. And then he put in a facimile 2000 game four finals Kobe kind of arrival performance. Kobe's a 10 out of 10 on that scale. Dylan Harper was like a seven. But it was like, hey, here's what the future's gonna look like when I'm putting this all together and I look like this all the time. So that was game three. That was scary. No Wemby in that game. Game four, um, Wemby and the Spurs just I the only other team that can do this is OKC, right? That could do a 60 to 30 second half of a playoff game on the road. And they've been, yeah. I mean, Oklahoma City has a gear of frenzy that almost nobody can reach. The Spurs, it just looks different because they don't quite have the perimeter frenzy and all the crazy wings. They've got some great defensive wings and guards, but they have the one guy in the middle who is just everywhere and impacting every play and in four places at once. And you just see everybody looking around like where am I? So I can't shoot this. I gotta shoot it's crazy. So this is a sweep if he doesn't get hurt in game two, I think. I mean they were winning when he got hurt, but yeah, they were winning in the first half today. So yeah, I think I mean I picked Spurs in five. I gave the Blazers a game one way or another. They're a tenacious defensive team that can cause some problems. But yeah, this feels like it feels like we're heading toward an appropriate Spurs in five. I think this that series was a win for the Blazers. They you know, we know what the limitations are, but when you think about um was a good Drew Holiday series, like it kind of validating a pretty weird trade, at least for the short term. They wanted to bring in a veteran guy. Then he was okay. I think it's a this is I wouldn't say the greatest matchup for him. Um and you know, they're feisty. There's some pieces here. And I can't wait until they have a coach that makes four hundred and twenty-five thousand dollars next year. We'll see what happens. We'll see what happens when Gabe Kaplan is the head coach of the of the Trailblazers. Uh yeah, the Fox thing, the big things for the weekend, other than Wemby coming back and looking healthy, was Harper and in game three, then Fox kind of reminding people, like, yeah, this is in here. I've been scaling it back, just be just kind of here to help out, facilitate, get some shots out. But uh for the most part, that's that's lurking in there somewhere. We'll see if it lurks in an OKC series. Can we talk about Dylan Harper really fast for game three? Because we haven't done a neither of us have done a podcast since then. I would love to. That was a uh I texted some people I know with the Spurs after that game. I said that was that was a real effing play of playoff win, game three. That was like a big boy playoff win without Wemby. It was uh an awesome game. Scoot going at him and then Harper basically from that moment on just taking his soul out of his body. Still a win for the series for Scoop, but Harper was so good. And you could just see all the pieces where where we're gonna go. And I'm not I'm not really positive where we're gonna go with him because when he hits the three-pointer, he basically has every single offensive weapon you you need. He can he can do stutter step, get in the lane, Brunson style, he can just get to the rim, he can play with somebody on his body. He can step back and hit threes and and then he can also kick back out to people with really like precise passes already. Like he's a really, really, really advanced, advanced, advanced guard. One of the best , I think, rookie guards that we've seen come into the league, um that I can remember the last 10, 15 years, right? Who else jumps to mind? Like who at 19 and 20 where you could really see like some special shit. Not very many people. And yeah, special. Like that was a game without Wemby that they needed other people to step up and he and Castle were both unbelievable. Yeah, first of all, it helps to move up in the lottery three years in a row. Second of all, um it's been one of the pleasures of this series. Like the Blazers have a lot of kind of power primitive players, including one of the all-time great like power hybrid point guards in Drew Holiday. Yeah. And it's been so fun to watch Castle and Harper be like, oh, we're just kind of babies in the sleek compared to you, but we're gonna we're we have that too. We're gonna take it right at you over and over again. It's been so fun. Yeah. And Castle, who was the unsung hero on uh on game three at thirty-three, but Harper Harper was just such such a dramatic second half entrance by Harper into that game that it kind of overshadowed everything else. But Castle's been great. Um pretty omnipresent. Even that play that led to the double tactical with Denny. Started because Denny was really physical with him dribbling up the ball. And Castle finally got tired of it, took him to the basket, did the whole thing. Blazers home game, no t-shirts. They were shooting used t-shirts during timeouts into the stands. I don't know if you knew about that. Pretty worn armpit stains? Like what are we talking about? Yeah, yeah. Just you know, not not holes in them or anything, but definitely had been worn. Uh I'd still think win for the Blazers. They've rekindled some trade value for some guys, and I'm interested to see what they do this summer. Okay . Cavs Raptors. Yeah. That also happened today. It did . Um This was an homage to what what year? 2006, 2005, 2003 ? I I mean I looked at the score multiple times in the second quarter and had to remind myself that it was the second quarter. So you pick pick a year from a long, long time ago in an NBA far, far away. Oh four. Raptors shoot 32% and win. They had 21 offensive rebounds and they had 36 free throw attempts. And it seemed like they blew the game. And then the the Cavs had a very strange stretch. They're up five. They give up two free throws. They missed five straight shots in the last two minutes and all of a sudden the Raptors are winning and all of a sudden the game's over. And it was a it was kind of your worst fears for a Mitchell Hardin game, right? I mean, I don't even want to put the blame on Mitchell Harden. Nobody covered themselves in glory in this game, but Jared Allen and Evan Mobley to combine for 11 points on five of 16 shooting when you're being guarded, at least at the start of the game, by a combination of RJ.. Barrett, who they've cross-chmated onto a big guy, and Jakob Pertle, who can kind of sometimes stay on the floor, had a couple nice takes in this game. Like I understand that the Raptors, they bring in Murray Boyles off the bench, and when he's the only quote-unquote b,ig man on the floor with Scotty Barnes . They're very switchable. They're very hard to play against. But like that's not the entire game. And remember that the third quarter started and they very Cleveland very clearly came out was like, hey, Evan, face up against Jacob Purdo if he's guarding you and score some baskets. And he got two. And I was like, all right, great. Then they switched the matchup. They put uh purdle onto or they put Purdle onto, I don't know. They switched the matchup one way or another. They put Purdle somewhere else and they put RJ Barrett on Mobley, I think. Um, yeah, and then we just never heard from either of those guys again. Jared Allen had a great defensive game, had some blocks, had some rib protection, but like we can clown Mitchell and Harden for shooting 12 of 38 combined, but the big guys deserve uh a little a little bit of criticism too. Mitchell six for twenty-four, Kobe Omash. Harden had six turnovers in the first half. And I tweeted this. I was so disappointed Barkley didn't make a joke about the Cavs being in Toronto all weekend Friday night, Saturday night, and then playing a one PM game and Hardin just looked like he had woken up a half hour before. I had the same question marks next to Mobley . He he had eight points, nine rebounds, and three assists. Um, and you just forget he's out there for stretches . I'm starting to wonder if this is just who he is. We kept like factoring in this bump and the ceiling for him and all the potential of what he could be and oh wait, maybe he's really a a five, maybe he shouldn't play next to Alan. Well what happens if he starts making threes, that's gonna change him. What we don't see from him is the guys, get out of my ways. I'm just gonna wreak havoc here for an hour, right? We need this game. We're up two one. Nobody can get anything going. Just I'm kicking it in a fifth gear and I'm gonna destroy everybody for about a half hour here. And he just doesn't do it ever . And this is the game you win if you're a serious NBA contender. On the road, tough game, tough atmosphere, tough, but like limited Toronto team. Not a not a great team. You win this game and go up three-one and set yourself up for the four-one win, which should be which should which you know. I picked Cavs in seven, but like it was sitting there for them. Toronto did not come out like a blaze of glory, and this is a game you win. And yeah, I mean, to your point, Cleveland all of a sudden, like they'll go, they'll put Allen and Mobley together at the start of each each half, and then we'll never see them play together again. And we didn't see Mobile for like most of the fourth quarter because Jared Allen was playing so well. Yeah. And I think they're caught in this existential dilemma of like, all right, well, do we want to play them together more? Well, that means we have to increase their minutes. We don't love the spacing. It's getting a little funky. I've been a mobile east three kind of disappears for a week at a time. Then okay, if we want to go small, who who do we play when we're small? Do we want to play more guards? Do we want to play more of our forwards like Tyson and Struce and Wade, all of whom we're okay today? And then Sam Merrill, who had been a zero for the entire series, came in and damn near swung the entire game and the entire series for Cleveland with his gravity. And he actually held up okay defensively, even against Ingram. But it's like they all of a sudden feel like they're torn between identities in some ways. And um it's not this should I mean, like, credit to Raptors, their defense was sensational. Murray Boyles is one of these stories of the last month and a half of the NBA season in the playoffs so far. And they made it really hard on the Cabs, and the Cabs did not have a lot of answers. Yeah, Murray Boyles gets uh three stars for his game today. And the fact that they can play small with him um with a rookie and be okay. But it may e like even big picture. Let's say the Cavs get through the series and they play Boston down the road. Boston is just gonna go small with better players than Toronto has. You know, because I think this is a blueprint now. Um the you mentioned that they were split between two teams basically. I would almost say they're split between two teams, but then they're also split between a second version of those two teams where the Mitchell and Harden stuff at the end of games, where it just feels like they're both 30 feet from the basket looking at each other, and then one of them has the ball and the other one just kind of stands there and watches. It's it's a little weird. There's some Mitchell stuff I want to get into in a second, but um I just they leave me cold. That I ne I don't think their defense is good enough either . And in this, you know, the Raptors shoot 32% today. But with the shots that we're getting at the end of games, basically they they're playing shed out there as a fifth guy. So it's Scotty Barnes just trying to beat people off the dribble. He's doing these spin things, then trying to kick out. They didn't really have anybody who could create a good shot. I didn't feel like and they still won. I didn't like any of the shots Toronto got. I mean, their best offense for a good portion of the fourth quarter was Scotty Barnes just bring the ball up as fast as you can and see what happens. And what happened was like people kinda got out of his way sometimes or they got in his way and he went through them. I thought he was awesome. I think Toronto's defense is just taking away so much of the paint. Yeah. And leaving Mitchell and Harden to be like, all right, we're just going to kind of run pick and roll out here with our guards to see if we can get RJ Barrett switched onto us and then see what happens. And then we'll hoist to step back three because the paint is like a no-fly zone. But you know, we're recording this before uh six or Celtic. So we'll see what happens in that game. But I depending on how that game goes, like that was kind of an underwhelming game three win on the road for the Celtics. I I guess no playoff win on the road against a guy like Maxie, who's busting every scheme you throw at him, is like ho hum . But the East is like Detroit's down two-one. Um, you know, Cleveland 2-2 . Uh Boston is where they are. The Knicks are 2-2. Like, is Orlando gonna win the East? Like, what's happening in the East? I know. It is like a unprepared for anything moment. So Darko said this about Scotty after the game. I expect more from Scotty. The way he's playing, he's 60% of a player that he's going to be in two to three years. Scotty's going to be one of the best players in the league, and he's already one of the best players in the league. So he saved it at the end. Um , but I don't think he's one of the best players in the league. I think he's a really interesting player . And you could see today, like the last piece that's for him to become like the number one guy on an awesome team that has a chance to win the title, I think he's gonna have to have the ball. And like what is his what's his finishing move going to be? And he might not have one. He might just be almost like what Igbudala was and some other guys we've seen, like guys who are way better off being your second best guy or your third best guy. For them, he has to be the the best guy. But I don't I don't I don't see it offensively. I don't know how he jumps up. What's in there in your opinion for him? I think it's the bully ball and the playmaking. And look, we could we could t to debate like what's the bet one of the best players in the league. Like I had him I had him third team all NBA and then bumped him off when Luca and Kate became eligible. So that puts you somewhere around the twentieth best player in the NBA, something like that. And it has been interesting in this series um to see how willing the Cavs are. You know, they'll start with Mobley on him and then they'll go with uh Tyson or Struuss or Wade or whatever. And I keep waiting for him to just dominate those matchups, and and the Raptor spacing makes it hard for anybody to do that. And he has stretches where he does, but I I keep waiting for the moment where he's gonna force Cleveland to put their centers or whatever the only uh Mobley or Allen on him and and put their put those other guys somewhere else. And that hasn't really happened yet. And it's just 'cause of the jump shot, right? I mean, that we all know they're gonna try to go under every screen, force him to shoot jumpers. But I mean, I'm not gonna sit here. Dude played forty two minutes, had twenty-three, nine, and six. I'm I'm all I'm all right, man. Four stocks, I'm good with that. And here's the other thing I would say . They play really fucking hard and they're really competitive. And I'm I like that. I like them a little more than maybe I did a week ago. I still can't imagine they would win a ro roundund or even twos. I still think Cleveland should win this series. But if I'm Cleveland, if I'm a coach on the team or I own the team or I'm in the front office, I'm a little nervous now that we're playing this team that ex poses a lot of warts that we have, right? Oh, you're going small. Well, here's Moby to punish that. Well, Moby's not doing that. Oh, you're super competitive and and going after every 50-50 ball and pounding us, like we're gonna fight back with our version of that. Well, maybe we don't have that. And they haven't the Raptors haven't even had the game yet where they just got lucky and hit a bunch of threes. You know? So if I I don't I don't know if the Raptors have that game. But every team has that game once in a playoff series. There's always a game where you somebody goes like fourteen or thirty-five or something. Could you go be a Walter hit one? Just a shot of of some kind. We better get to see Grady Dick at some point. But yeah, if I'm the if I'm on the calf side, I'm a little nervous because I have some fears. There's some guys on my team that have wilted in big situations. We don't have to name them. No. Really? Yeah. We have some really bad playoff losses in our recent pass. I gotta do some Googling. I guess I would just start to get I would be getting a tiny bit nervous here. Can we do the Donovan Mitchell playoff history really fast? I love the Donovan Mitchell playoff history. Go ahead. Lost to Houston round two as a rookie, then lost to them round one the second year. Blew a 3-1 lead to 2020 Denver in the bubble . Beat a really young Memphis team, then lost to the Clippers in twenty one and six after Kawhi left the famous Terrence Man game. Uh just an inexplicable loss. One of the most inexplicable losses of the decade. Lost to Dallas in six and twenty two, no Luca, the first, I think, three games. That was Brunson's arrival. And they just kind of cratered as it went along and it became clear. Somebody was going to get traded. Turned out both guys got traded. Mitchell uh Mitchell goes to the Cavs. They lose to the Knicks in five. The next year they beat Orlando in seven in a series that it seemed like they were going to blow, and then they showed up for game seven. Uh got smoked by Boston in five. The next year, last year, swept Miami and then lost to Indian five in a game where they had more excuses than games one after the series ended. Well, Mobile missed a game. Garland was hurt. Um, and Indiana just took their lunch in that series . They they come in that series, just to just to add on to it, like remember DeAndre Hunter got hurt. I think he gave one of that series on a Matharin chase down block. And they were like, they were mad about that. He didn't get called for a flagrant, I think, if I remember correctly, or they wanted to sustain. I can't remember what exactly what it was. And then they're like, Oh man, what a big loss for DeAndre Hunter. And I'm like really? Because it seems like you guys can't wait to get rid of DeAndre Hunter. Now that he's hurt, it's like the biggest loss in the history of playoff basketball. And like I didn't like the way they handled adversity in that Indiana series when it hit them. Well, if they lose this series, I every guy in the team, the coach, everybody is, I think , on the table. I'm prepared for every single outcome. Right? Is there one keeper that you would say, well, they won't trade him? I'm prepared for anything. I would say I would say Mitchell, but you know, Mitchell has a little agency in that uh in that whole discussion as well with just the one guaranteed year left on his uh his deal. Would you I'm not going there yet. They should win the series. They should win the series. They should be they did it, but credit Toronto, man. I I thought this would be a tough series for Cleveland and it's gonna be a tough series for Cleveland. This is officially uh who are who are the tough guys on our team? Let's go. Kind like who wants this? Who's ready to bang bodies? Who's ready to I think Struuss. I liked how he's been playing. I think Jared Allen has it in him. We'll see with Mobley. Uh hard end, you never know. Mitchell, we've seen it. And he's his playoffs, what is he, 28 a game for his career in the playoffs? That's what I was going to say when you went through the team results. I mean, there's been he's got a couple of dud playoff series individually. There's also been some series, particularly with Cleveland, where it's it's been like Donovan Mitchell and is is any anyone else coming with me? Am I just gonna have to do this all by myself, including that Orlando one? They got it out in seven. Like I he's his postseason individual play is pretty unimpeachable. Like everyone's gonna have a dud now and then, even the very greatest players in the world, like Jokic is having now. But he it's it's been pretty by and large very good. Yeah, the only thing you could ding him is the well the results. But also thirty-one percent from three the last five postseasons. And a lot of a lot of stuff like today where he just couldn't ever really get it going. And I thought what the the kind of team the Raptors have is actually like the kind of team you would want to throw at the Cavs. And I think the Celtics have a version of too. Just long wings to put on those guys and really bother them and and uh the ability to play small or big depending on what you do. Well, we'll see. I already think this series is a win for the Raptors, just even I had Cavs in six. I bet the Cavs win game five. My prediction would still be that the Cavs would go and win in Toronto, but it's I I just didn't like how the Cavs look today. Um can I can I say a couple other things about this game? Yeah. How about Scotty Barnes just going to the foul line and knocking them all down late in the game? And uh eight second violation gets thrown in there. Like if we're gonna just gonna have a complete offensive disappearance. May as well throw an eight-second violation. I'm not sure I've ever seen that exact kind of eight-second violation where Jamal Shedd seemed to know that it was coming and is like, what if I just jump in front of this guy right now? And he jumped in front of Donovan Mitchell. And sure And that's not the first time Mitchell's had one of those either. Um Okay . I'm gonna save I'll save the nuggets . Wanna do some magic's magic pistons? Sure. Let's go . This is uh I've said this to you before. I got notes. Look I got no I got notes on every series ready to go. I've said this to you before. This is a great one seed case for my two two three idea. Yet again. Detroit just on the ropes, reeling after being awesome all season. Orlando um couldn't have been more disappointing this season and then ended the season in a in like a borderline disgraceful way. And now they're in the driver's seat at two one. But the the number one thing I wrote down and I bolded it. I felt this way after game one. I felt this way halfway through game two. And then the Pistons played one awesome quarter in game two . Other than that, these teams look dead even to me. And even the net ratings are 105 and 104 offense, defense for Orlando, and the opposite for Detroit. All their stats are near the same. Um, it just feels like if they play 20 games, I feel like 18 of them are gonna be close. And I honestly don't know who's gonna win the series. I would not bet on it. I would not make a prediction for it. I do not know what's gonna happen. Uh I think it's also a reminder that sometimes the conventional wisdom about the playoffs being different than the regular season is actually spot on. It turns out everything that we were worried about about the Pistons and Detroit fans yelled and screaming about how they had 60 wins and all this. It turns out your lack of shooting is a problem. It turns out the lack of secondary creation around Kate is a problem. And it turns out that Jalen Dern is just getting flat outplayed by Wendell Carter Jr. and looks just frazzled on both ends of the floor, which is fine. He's 22 or 23, whatever he is. He's young. It's not fine. I voted for him second team on MBA . I've I I I shouldn't have this many voter regrets already, and I have like five. Well, okay, fine is f I guess fine. By fine, I would mean it's not entirely shocking to me that the playoffs have proven much harder for him than the regular season, but um like Yeah, but it's worrisome that Orlando has pretty easily figured out how to nullify him in this series. Yeah, his face up game just isn't. I mean Wendell Carter hit him with the with the Shea like this guy, this guy, the other one. Couldn't the whole thing with Durin is he carries himself like he's the biggest, baddest guy in the bar. And Wendell Carter's like, let's go outside and fight right now. I'm right here. Wendell Carter's been a big winner, I think, of the playoffs so far. The the inevitable Stu Goga uh conflagration already happened. And but it was interesting to see JV Vickerstaff kind of get fed up with both Stu's antics and he yanked Duran Durin early in either the third or I think the third quarter of that game after a couple of defensive mistakes and just like sat 'em for a long time. Like their they took that game obviously seriously and Orlando took it from them and Paulo and Franz made a couple dagger threes. You don't expect those guys to dagger threes. That was kind of fun. Did not expect that. Well, the trade deadline, which we were concerned that they didn't major, it feels like it's continuing to haunt them. Kobe White, Des unmu, who Oh my God. I mean, out of all the teams that could have trumped Minnesota's uh measly offer of four second round picks and our bus lottery pick for Dus unmu, I'm pretty sure Detroit could have topped that one in about five seconds. Right? Maybe though four seconds? Three seconds, like um Jenkins crashed back to Earth. Yeah, that's another one. He played seven minutes uh in game. Thompson, his stats are okay, but it especially in the last six minutes in these games, and I would say the same for his brother. It he's on the court dribbling around and it almost seems like he doesn't know where the basket is. He'll be just going this way and the basket's over here or backwards and just has wants no part of shooting ever. And Cade's been awesome. I mean, if you said before the series, Cade's gonna have a 31, five, and eight through through uh three games, you'd you would think, oh, Detroit, then Detroit are they going for a sweep? What's gonna happen? They just don't they don't have any other crunch time offense. It's every fear we had about the pistons all regular season when we were doing the yeah, but and look, let's just be clear: like the magic are good. This is a tough matchup for Detroit. It's not, it's not like they're, I don't think they're like choking or this is a sort of like a condemnation of their entire team construction. They're a young team with some obvious offensive warts, playing a team that probably had a higher over-under number than they did before the season. And so, like, it's not entirely shocking that this has proven a tough series for them. Everything you said about a star Thompson is true. And they just, you know, I thought Orlando, uh Detroit went at Duncan Robinson uh with a little bit more precision and intent uh in that game. And they need Duncan Robinson's offense on the floor to sort of loosen everything up and they just need Dun to play better. Like Dern being a 10 point, five rebound, like okay defensive players they,' theyre're gonna lose this round if that's if that is what he ends up averaging. Yeah, you need the wildcard guy too. You know, like for the Lakers, and we're taping this before game four, but Kennard has been something of a wildcard guy for them, right? You need that . Oh, I did like Iowa last night. Wow. 27 in the second half. We weren't expecting that. I don't know who Detroit's. Wow, we weren't expecting that guy is. It's probably Duncan Robinson, but um they just never got the heat check it thing. I I mean it's a really interesting point you made about regular season versus playoffs because it's funny you have in the East Orlando a team that we were all disgusted by at multiple points this year and really frustrated by. And then you have Minnesota, who was the classic, kept roping us in, then making us feel stupid. And then like, I'm out of Minnesota, then they'd look awesome again. They'd rope you back in. And we just did the zigzag with them for six months. And then if you just watched them in the playoffs, you would think was Jaden McDaniels the runner-up to Wemby for defensive player of the year, or was it Gobert ? Were that did those guys fin ish two and three? Um, and you see their bench and you just see the the the physicality and the intensity that they have. And I promise you they did not look like that very often during the season, but they do This is gonna be a hard one for us . Nuggets, Timberwolves. That's going great. We'll talk about that next. This episode is brought to you by Service Now. Look, I already have my dream job. I run the ringer, argue with Chris Ryan, a K C R, but even Dream jobs have not so dreamy parts. You know, the work that slows you down never seems to go away. That's where service now is AI specialists come in. They're like digital teammates who actually do the job start to finish, no handoffs, no homework. 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Visit CeraVee.com slash hair care to learn more. Available online and in-store at retailers nationwide. All right, Zach. Game four, Nuggets Wolves, which gave us uh a terrible De Vincenzo Achilles injury that I didn't even see because I was watching the other game within a minute of the start . A really scary ant injury that seemed like it was the ACL because he was holding the side of his knee. Um turns out hyperextension, but he's out for the round. Iowa is 43 in the game and 27 in the second half. And if you only watch this game, you would think he was one of the best 10 players in the league. We had a near brawl involving Jokic. Very entertaining. Involving the Joker, which is always all bets are off. And Julius Randle came in with a little like Steven Jackson in the Artes Melee kind of energy. I thought he was really going to escalate it . Um huge fight in the stance. Lots of video from that. Oh I didn't see that. There was a fight in the stance between Nuggets fans and Timberwolves fans. Big fight in the stance. Can go look that up. Wow, what a rivalry. It's even spilling into fandom. That's great. We had well maybe not great. I don't I didn't see the fight. Who knew that was a rivalry? Were there children involved? I don't I hope not. I hope everyone's okay. I hope everyone's all right. We had ABC breaking into the game and forcing us to move to ESPN because they had to do an update about the White House dinner, uh the shooting there. And then uh after the game, someone stole Joker's underwear and he was really mad about it. Probably more mad than the loss. Um I I don't know where you want to start, but this was probably the drunkest game of the year replacing whatever the previous drunkest game of the year was ? I want to start with the injuries to Minnesota because they're up three-one in this series . And if even just Ant were healthy, they would probably win the series, even though they only have the one home game left and be a dangerous team in the next round. And now Ant avail ability is in question for an unknown period of time. And DiVincenzo, the dude is just a winner and a gamer, played every game. He wins everywhere he goes. He's just such an awesome role player and it' dsone so well there. That's a that's a heartbreaker. And you knew it right away. You feared it right away. He knew it right away, it seemed like when he was on the floor. So I want to start there because as appealing as it is to start with like is Jokic having the worst playoff series of his career. Is Denver is their window already closed or closing right now for this and for this core? What does that mean for the offseason? Those are the big questions. I might I might have to open a Mikelob Ultra for this. I'm getting upset. I want to sit with I want to sit with the Timberwolves injuries for just a second because DiVincenzo is like just classic central casting beloved like glue guy role player. And Ant is Ant, one of the faces of the league, one of the most explosive players in the league, a guy who plays both ends of the floor and is ri risen up in the playoffs every year that he's been there. And this team is like has a legit awesome top seven. Like they're starting five plus I.O. and Nasreed, and then you go down below that, and it's Bones has been playing well and whatever. But like they are legitimately really good. And if they're harmed going into the second round, assuming they win the series, which I don't think is a done deal, by the way. Um that just it just sucks. And all these injuries sucks. And when Castle went out in that game earlier today with the hand injury, I'm like, I'm I just don't want to I can't watch this anymore. Yeah, and DeFincenzo's out next year. The timing of these, when you when you get March, April, May range, you're also out for the next season, I would assume. Unless he's on some crazy Tatum timeline that would put him back . I guess I don't know. He would have to get lucky. I know he flew to New York today and got the surgery, but the thing with him, other than your top seven point, he would swing two halves a series just by getting hot, it felt like. And I thought he was a great wild card, like, oh my god, Dante's heating up, he's not afraid of this moment. And uh somebody's gonna have to fill that spot. Yeah, I should have clarified by top seven, I'm including Di Vincenzo, and now he's gone, and so we're gonna see more Mike Conley. I I was very happy by the way that Mike Conley threw this all competent. Had a moment. Had a moment in a big, big game, and and Shannon got in. I think they're gonna need they're just gonna need guy other guys to just fill time now. The ant thing was the least surprising injury of the first round because he did not uh and except for Aaron Gordon, because ant did not look healthy. You could tell something was wrong with his knee, and he was also playing a hundred percent not favoring it at all. And then afterwards kind of be like, ow, that still hurts. And um, it was just scary to watch play by play because he was clearly not healthy, but playing like he was healthy. Well, and the but that's the crazy thing about these two wins from Minnesota is Ant was in foul trouble and and not great in game three. Ant was doing like pretty much nothing, like he wasn't even that involved in the offense before he got hurt in game four, and they still win both games. And I'm glad you brought up Aaron Gordon because you know, he deserves credit for trying to gut out that game, but it he just was scary. It was he was just jogging lightly on his feet and he summoned a couple of big jumps for a rebound and for a challenge at the rim. And both times I would, I was like, oh no, is this like I it it was not. And without him and Watson, they're just too small. They're too small for the Temple Wolves. They don't have enough force. They don't have enough oomph. And like that's not an excuse. It just is it is what it is and now there's just injuries scattered across the series and one of these teams is gonna win four games and go on to the next round and face the Spurs. By the way be a show of themselves. But by the way, I mean, you go back to that Spurs Nuggets regular season finale, like the Nuggets shouldn't even be playing the Timberwolves. Like both of those teams had it lined up for them and they just I don't I don't know what happened I mean it's not like the Nuggets played all their best guys. David Roddy and all those guys happened. They just start they just play their worst guys played really well for about a half an hour. That's when you start being like, hey David Roddy, if you ever wanted to take 12 left-handed threes in a half,. like Like have have at it, man. Go watch some Mark Madsen film at halftime from game eight. Like, you gotta lose that game, and the Spurs should have been like, well, we'll help. I talked about that a couple of pods ago. How that not only swung this series, but it swung that Lakers Rockets whole situation in a crazy way where the Lakers just would have gotten, I think, dusted by somebody. And instead we have this next chapter in LeBron's legacy and Marcus Smart's rejuvenated, Luke Connard is back. The Rockets are a complete mess. Um the Aaron Gordon thing, regardless, he looks like he's done and it completely changes whatever the ceiling was for Denver. I thought they're going to make the finals. I don't think they're going to make the finals with how he looks. There's some some other stuff though. There's a lot, there is a lot to unpack. Well, the IO thing, how long were we on the trade deadline pod we did talking about how fucking stupid that trade was and trying to get we weren't the only ones. I'm not I'm not claiming the territory by ourselves. Um joining us were probably everybody else who has a podcast and watches basketball, everyone who watched the Chicago Bulls fairly regularly to regularly. This guy was a good basketball player and he was on a cheap contract. And these guys should be the hardest people to trade for. And they got him for four second rounders. And it was just immediately clear he was the perfect guy to add for them. And I don't know where a bunch of teams were with this. I don't understand how you get this guy for four second rounders. With that said , the stuff he's doing offensively, I did not know. I did not know he had this . Like he was unstoppable . Unstoppable. Denver was like gearing their defense to try to stop him and couldn't stop him. I did not know he could do this. I mean if you look I don't know when the first timestamp is of me saying the timber wolves should trade for Iodesumudu but it's like in the fall. It was that obvious. And December I and I do feel like imagine being a Bulls fan where almost everything that happens in the NBA playoffs ends up being a joke at your expense. Like, oh, this guy was just on the Bulls. Like you had him on your team. You don't have a lot going for you. You had him. And you were like, Yeah, you know what? Yeah, you know, we we 're gonna have to pay him and uh Minnesota just gets him and yeah, I mean he's he's just a very good player and he fits them well and he shot forty five percent on threes this year, but I did not I mean it was the I.O. show from from start to listen to the second half. Also another guy, and this is a recurring theme in all these series, like just an incredibly competitive guy who really seems to um respect and treasure being on the big stage. You know, like you you've seen a bunch of these guys talk about this. Barnes is another one. Like I've really I've really grown to admire Barnes. Barnes is like, I'll I'll fucking die to win this series. I'll do anything it takes. I'm so happy to be here in the playoffs. And Io's another one. I think Io is this guy who probably watched the playoffs in April, May, and June every year and was like, Fuck, I really want to be in the playoffs. I'm on the Bulls. Why? Um So anyway, I'm happy for him. And he really fits in with the kind of mentality and energy of this team. And Jada McDaniels, I watched some thing on the social media today of all the people he's like kind of battled with and gone at he has no respect for anybody like this would have been the guy who went at Kobe and Jordan if he was you know in those errors he'd have been like fuck these guys I'm not afraid of these guys, and this is the best he's ever played. So to to do all this when you have a compromised ant who then goes out of the game in game four and still feel like they're probably going to beat Denver is pretty crazy. Uh just an a total gutsy performance by the Wolves. Gobert has been sensational the entire series. Sensational. There there are a few other things that need to be remarked on in this game. That Gobert took a three? Well, okay, I was gonna go. We we need to deep dive the end of the game, but at some point. But Gobert takes that three. I mean, they're all they're up thirteen with six minutes left. That is such an insulting shot. That's like a shot you uh you would take if you're up 30 with two and a half minutes left. They're up that's like a very like winnable game for Denver in most circumstances. And Globe taking that. There was like 17 on the shot clock. He took it. That was so disrespectful. And I mean this in a good in a good and fun way. That was just like, we're we have you. We know we have you. I'm just gonna give myself a 15% chance to have the the target center just combust if I make this shot. That was so disrespectful. I loved it. You know, it wasn't even a heat check three . It was like a somebody driving home and they just decide to drive the car with their feet on the steering wheel and stick their head through the sunroof was one of those moves. It's like, watch this, guys. Like, that's how confident he was they were winning the game. It was like a in to put it in your language, it was like a seven-way parlay. It was like Adam Sandler in Uncut Gems betting on like KG winning the jump ball and f fiveive other things happening at once. And he was like, fuck it, I'm doing it. We're only up 13. Imagine if they lost. Imagine if they lost. We would look back at that and be like, why did you what happened? You know what the funniest thing about that chat was? I thought it was going in. It looked good. It had this kind of energy for the Timberwolves where it's like, ah, this probably fucking going in the way this is going for Minnesota. But yeah, that the what McDaniels has done in this series and how how many miles he's put on Murray combined with what Gobert has done to Joker . You know, I was on a lot of text today. I have a lot of people in my life, they know who they are, who um get really mad when I compare Joker to Bird and Magic and that I voted for him for MVP again, all that. So there's a lot of people I heard from today. I don't have to name them. And uh you want to do this now or did you have more from this game? No, let's do it now. You're you feel it, I feel like you're on the therapist couch and you're ready to go. So let's go . It's we're four games in the series. I'm not ready to say that this is one of the big disasters of all time. I will say if they get knocked out of this series and he's looked the way he's looked, um , it does feel like the best player ali ve room, the door is gonna open and somebody's gonna be able to walk into that room now and be declared the new person. Uh I mean I have voted Shea I voted Sha I didn't but I didn't have a vote. I had Shea MVP and and R Shea's been number one in Ringer one hundred the last two or three times.s fine, L butike deep isn' already happened. Deep in the recesses of your recesses of your soul , you thought Joker was the best player in the league? No. I mean, like it Shea took the belt, I think, this season after the injury be but by the the injury is like a line of demarcation the injury on december 30th when yokic got hurt he has not been the same guy since and I think Shea has been the best player since then period no no caveats no like, well, if I had to win a game, blah blah blah. I think he's just been the best guy. By the way, we're probably not going to talk about it because it's a boring series. What he did to Phoenix in game three yesterday was like had it in my notes. 15, 15 for 18 was kid talking. Straight up maj estic. And like they couldn't do anything with him. And defensively, he's a game changing. He makes some game changing plays here and there. It just but okay. I'm sorry, I interrupted the Jokic uh uh cope. Well, this is a six year run. Six started in twenty. They come back and they beat Utah, right? They come back from in the bubble. That was kind of the arrival playoffs. So seven years really six. They lose two because of the Murray injury. He wins three MVPs. They win one title. That's gonna start too. Oh, they won one title, but look who they played. People are gonna do that. Um he's thirty-one years old . I wouldn't say he's gonna have a LeBron type of physical arc of staying in shape until his late thirties and and being incredible. God only knows what he's gonna look like at age thirty five, 36. The bigger thing for me is the team around him, I really worry like this is like really it for him as a contender. If they can't get out of the first round this year, Gordon's year 13 next year, God only knows what he's going to be like physically. Whatever we saw from Cam Johnson this year, uh, can't say I was impressed. I I went from thinking that was a steal of a trade to wondering like would Michael Porter Jr. have actually maybe helped them in this series. I know you did. I know you did people disrespected Michael Porter Jr. in the analysis of that trade. And then uh and then Tim Hardaway. Like the biggest part of this game, Denver was like felt like they were going to come back multiple times in that fourth quarter. Harder was in the corner, takes a three, it hits the side of the backboard. Like I think it would have cut the game to like four or six. Next play, Cam Johnson, or that the next time they have it, Cam Johnson's wide open on the side. Same thing, missed a three. Like Murray was the only guy that hit a three in the second half for them yesterday. He hit two. Everybody else is 0 for 11. So the supporting cast has been bad. Here's what I don't understand, Zach. For the season, they were first in MB in uh offense, 121.3 for by possessions, 100 possessions. Their offense is 105.3 in the playoffs. They' lastre and three point shooting in the playoffs. They're sixteenth shooting twenty-eight point five. They're forty percent field goal, fifteenth. Um they're not really turning ball over. They're second best in turnovers and their first to get in the line And the offense just looks awful. Like that there was one set I saw on Reddit. Denver on open shots is eight for thirty-six in the playoffs, and on wide open shots, they're 20 for 57 . I don't understand what happened to their offense. And I can't think it's just Gordon. And I can't think Ober a and McDaniel's as good as they've been or this good. Like they've completely shut down an offense that was humming the entire season. I don't really get it. Well, I mean, a lot of the open shots are Christian Brown and Spencer Jones and Jokic threes, which they're giving them just don't go in anymore for some reason. And Aaron Gordon on one leg, jump shots. Um so they're open, but they're like not it's not like Steph Curry's out there shooting, catch and shoot. True. Threes. I'm glad you brought this up though, because when the Nuggets fail, everybody wants to clown on Yokich's defense, which is hit or miss, obviously. They're loot their their defense has actually been fine in this series for the most part. They're losing because they have absolutely no answers for Minnesota's defense. And it's shocking to see Denver out of answers because they were the number one offense in the NBA this season. There were nights where it looked so easy for them, and the Wolves have just taken them completely out of their game. And they've taken Jokic, Gobert with a great team of defenders around him has taken Jokic totally out of the out of his rhythm, totally out of his usual game. And the way I was looking at the tracking data over the weekend, oh, this is before game four, and I because I was curious, having watched game three, his post-ups are down. Like he just doesn't want to post up against Gobert. They they like every minute that he's out there with Nas Reed or Julius Randle on him, they should be going to him in the post. And yet they weren't. In the third quarter, the Gobert was out of the game for a while and I kept waiting for Jokic to take over. And he was just getting the ball 30 feet from the hoop and they were running split cuts and all this stuff that looks nice. But it's like, dude, you have Julius Randall and Nas Reed on you. You should you should be like, This is your time. And then he's also not rolling to the rim nearly as often. Uh and I don't know if it's I don't know what it is, but I I think he knows that they're trying to take that away. And he's just not doing it. And when he's not doing it, he's not compromising their defense at all. And I don't know if the there's there was one play in game three that's he finally rolled hard to the rim and he got the ball in the spot where we've seen him make a floater five thousand times. And he went up for it. And Gobert was in the neighborhood, rotating around. And in mid-air, Jokic dumped it down to Christian Brown, who was kind of like right under the rim, but couldn't go up because Gobert was there. And that the possession died out after that. And that play, and combined with him, if you look at the tracking data, him rolling to the rim a lot or rolling into the paint, rolling it all, like just he's just popping and staying put, doing that less often has me wondering, like they're just in his head. Gobert is in his head. He's out of rhythm. He's not playing the way he usually does. And all those pet paint shots are gone, vaporized. And the Tipperos have completely taken him out of his game I agree with everything you just said, and I would add this. And this goes to the taking him out of his game. They figured out a way to speed him up to just like almost like a podcast where Jokic is like, I like when I like when my podcasts are at one two. I'm a one point two guy. That's what I am. I like to play at that speed. And the Timberwolves have sped him up to one five. And where I've really noticed it is on defensive rebounds when he's like trying to all he had a couple of the crazy turnovers that he hasn't had since like the 2010s in the second half of that game, where it's like he's afraid McDaniels is gonna come from behind or Io or somebody and they're gonna swipe the ball from him. So he's getting these balls and he's like a bad out of hell going up the thing or trying to do these quick passes. And he's not, he doesn't have that same calm pace that he always had. Like they've they've they've just discombobulated him. And the thing I was telling to the people that were making fun of me today in my life, like people have had bad series, right? And every single great player we've ever had has had a Lazy series. Yeah, Tragic Johnson. Kobe had the 04 against the Pistons, it was a classic. Bird had a couple stinkers, like the 88 Pistons series was bad. Every Jordan against Orlando in 95, everybody has him. I'm just surprised it happened right now for Jokic with what we had seen this year. Because I really felt like he in a lot of ways, I you know, I know he got injured, he came back, we were worried about him, but I really felt like he had his mojo back. And uh I thought this team knew what it was. Now you look at him, it's like Valentinus doesn't play anymore. They don't really have a a backup point guard. Um, it's just a bad matchup for them. And sometimes that happens in basketball. So they're favored on FanDuel for game five. They're favored by ten and a half in game five. Oh, with the injuries, sure. Yeah. I think that's still too I think the way they're playing with the thing. I thought it would be like minus six. I mean, I don't know what's gonna happen with Aaron Gordon just eye test, like and the fact that he didn't come back in the game in the second half after he went out. Like I I would just plan on him. I'm mentally planning on him not playing. Uh and that that seems like too many points. But you brought up a very important point though. Whereas as much as you want to make this about Jokic, and that's he deserves all the criticism. Like Globe has eaten his lunch and taking him out of the game. Jokic and Murray scored fifty-four points in game four. The rest of the team scored thirty-two. Uh I'm sorry, 42. Um, and Cam Johnson has been nothing. Christian Brown has been nothing. That's two of your starters, giving you giving you zero. Watson's obviously not playing. And I think there's a real discussion to be had. I don't know if now is the time to do it because we haven't got to the end of the game, which I found delightful. Are you doing this ? No, there's just a real discussion to be had about Oklahoma and San Antonio are who they are, and did Denver just flat out miss its chance at a second ring, is the window closed for them because Murray and Jokic are getting older. Gordon, it just I think you just have to assume that he's just not going to be healthy for six straight weeks in the playoffs ever again. I mean the the evidence suggests it there and the rest of their team is just not performing up to the level it needs to perform and it just you do like things happen fast in the NBA you mentioned 21 Murray hurt 22, Murray hurt ,23 they, win the title, 24. They'll always regret blowing that lead in game seven at home against Minnesota because I think that have been favorites over Dallas in the next round and favorites over uh Boston in the finals, perhaps. Although that, you know, that would have been a good matchup , obviously. That would have been a that would have been but Boston probably would have been favored. But that was a that there are three rings sitting there. Two of them robbed, not their chance was eliminated by injuries. One, I think they would have had a real good shot at it and they didn't get out of game seven. And now it's like, is this it? Like, are we are we done? And if if we if we do think we're done, what the hell are we supposed to do? You know what's hilarious? I was a step ahead of you for where you were going and I thought you were going where I'm starting to get trades? Yo, Jokic should Detroit trade everything for Jokic? Should Charlotte trade everything for Jokic? You want to do it? No, I thought that's where you were going to go though. That's why I jerked up. Cause I do think like this if you're them like we had the window and now we're kind of stuck with this team. That's the real issue with them. Shen Goon, five first round picks, six I mean, you do really do what you're not ready yet. I don't think Jokic, I think he's a little like Curry, where he's like, I like Denver and I'm happy and uh I'm just happy to compete every year. But the San Antonio KC point has been lurking all year, and this is why I really thought this was last stand for Denver. Like this is it. You might be able to catch OKC in a back to back with Jalen Wins. They've had some injuries. You know you can play them pretty well. And San Antonio is a year away from being ready. This is like your window. And you know, I don't know about I don't about San Antonio being a year away from after this weekend. But I'm just saying like youth wise. They played 'em well in the regular season. The Nuggets played to Spurs well in the regular season My point is next year San Antonio is gonna be better than this year. So uh teams that are up three one in a series, there's been two hundred and ninety eight NBA examples. Okay. How many do you think I've come back? Seventeen. Thirteen. Okay. Team two eighty five and thirteen. Um how many were coached by Doc Rivers? At least a couple. Minnesota's defensive rating with Rudy is 98.5 in the series. That's like out of uh the 1940s. Um Christian Brown , his extension kicks in next year for $125 million for five years? It does. It does. Uh that uh is gonna I think it made the worst contracts with me and Waz in house. I think Waz drafted that one. It's now uh, there's been some him and Purdle, I think, are going to be high first round picks in that uh draft next year. But the Brown thing's tough because if you can't guard I O or anybody else, you can't shut down anyone on Minnesota, any of their perimeter guys, and you're not making threes and you're not finishing around the rim and you can't hit free throws . I'm really not sure what you're bringing to the table because that's kind of the four reasons you're playing. I think that contact was a bet on him improving his three-point shot, which he's done intermittently, and then it always seems to disappear for two weeks, three weeks here and there. And yeah, I mean, that was a very clear choice of you know, there's obviously a lot of variables and variables involved in these choices, including what salaries the players want and all that. But that was a very clear, like, we're choosing you over Peyton Watson. Or if we have to choose one and whatever variables line up, we're choosing you. And Peyton Watson flat out outplayed him when he was healthy this year. And now he becomes a free agent. And they are already like apron troubled. And I don't know what they're gonna do . This really makes me sad . I do respect like if Jokic is gonna go down, my favorite non-seltic to watch other than maybe Curry, if he's gonna go down this way, I'd I want it to go down this way, like Terminator Two style with the falling into the pit, putting his hand up, down three-one, just like one last 37, 15, and 17, and just doing everything. Murray is playing well in this series. I think. He is. They just I just need unfortunately against Minnesota, you're gonna need more than that. Wow. So you're already you've already poured dirt on your league. No, it's fine. I said that they they could still win the series. No, you have SGA now. You're SGA guy. Oh well, you stop. You love foul baiting. You're foul baiter now. Okay, all right. Well, yeah, that's who you are. It's fine. Um look if, I could bait fouls, I would bait fouls. I can't though. I'm also I also I'm just at flat, I'm just an injury risk at this point for any any running sporting event. I'm gonna give you an OK, okay , OKFC hat. Um is that a thing? No, I d I'm trying to make it a thing. No, OKC they're clearly it's Shay's time now and if they win back to back, I think whoever emerges from that OKC San Antonio series will be the best player in the league. That's who we will feel has the belt. And that's just how it's gonna go. Can we do three minutes on the end of the game? Yeah. McDaniels, Jokic. Yeah. First of all, I hope nobody gets suspended. I hate when this stuff happens when they do the film about did someone leave the bench. As you pointed out over text, I think the players thought the game had ended. And so the game had ended. Everyone thought the game had ended. But I there's one person that's not getting any credit here that I would like to give a little credit to . Mike Conley threw that pass ahead to Jaden McDaniels when he absolutely did not have to. He could have just dribbled out the clock or dribbled up to half-court. And I think Mike Conley has a little bit of shit disturber in him. It was like, let's see what happens if I throw this pass up to Jaden McDaniels. And you could see Jokic watching. Like as soon as that pass went, Jokic turned his back to the hoop that he was shooting at and just watched Jaden McDaniels. It was like waiting. Like, are you gonna do it, motherfucker? Are you actually gonna do it? And then he did it. But I want to give Mike Conley a lot of credit for starting the whole thing, maybe inadvertently, maybe slightly vertently. I don't know. But that the great pass by Mike Conley. He had another assist in an illustrious career., Mike Conley Come on. Point guard Mike Conley. Joker running at you, full speed, angry . It's not what I want. He's first team on NBA with I'm trying to think other ones. Isaiah Stewart. Oh, Isaiah is Isaiah Stewart is in a league of his own. Jalen Duren. It's probably the top three. Two of them are on Detroit. I did enjoy McDaniel's McDaniel's when he was asked about it. It was like, I didn't know someone big as hell was coming at me. I'm like, yep, that's that's right. McDaniels' energy has I think really spoken for this Timberwolves team who's clearly knew they were playing with Edwards not at a hundred percent and they're still carrying themselves. And the uh the other take I just want to have on this, if you will allow me. Yeah. Is Denver Nuggets, Nicole Jokic, David Adleman, all of you, stop whining. The guy scored a layup against you in garbage time. You're that upset about it? Like, how about just don't go to garbage time? How about try to play better during the run of the game? The unwritten rules, like it's not like he did a windmill dunk 360. Just put the ball in the hoop. I think it was that it was him of all the people that did it. Well, then just take the L because the guy talked shit about your entire roster, backed it up and made a layup in garbage time. Then you could like get all mad about it. It's come on, the game's going on. He made a layup, big deal. He doesn't get to see he scores so he's not like uh you know T wants an extra two points. You'll be surprised to know I completely agree. And I thought Adam and seemed like a loser in the press conference. And by the way, him talking about wondering where when the when the all the Nuggets fans, everybody who watches this team is like, where the where's the fight? Why are you guys rolling over like this? What are we watching? Where where is like the pride that we've watched last six years? And Adaman's like, what do you mean? I thought we were competitive. I had it in my notes. in the game In the last like from like minute four to minute two of the fourth quarter, the like not not the very end, but the a little stretch there before the very end. They seem to start playing harder than they had played , particularly on offense. Like they started executing with a lot more zip and a lot more force. And to the point that I put it in my notes, it's like, where it's too late. It's too late now. Well, do you think Adamman's coaching this team next year if they get bounced in five or six? Because I do not . Who the hell knows? I with these coaching changes. I mean, Tiago Splitter can't get a job. These guys are all getting f Who the hell knows with these coaching decisions anymore? Billy Dynamon's like, hey guys , do you have a top six or seven player in the league? Because I would love to have had that opportunity to coach somebody really good. You know who did it right? Monty Williams. Took all the money, got fired, and was like, you know what I'm gonna do? Just nothing. How about I just coach high school, coach my sons? You can keep paying me eight figures a year for as many years as the contract goes on. That's what Billy does, Billy Donovan. I don't know. I think you know there's one more year I don.'t but I don't think people were knocking on Monty's door. There's been a couple people that have just like will Adrian Griffin ever coach again? There's a couple of these guys that just come and go and we'll never see them again, I guess. That was a bad ending, Adrian Griffin. Anyway, that's nugget nuggets wolves. I I think there's my only thing to add from your last from that brawl was uh I just really want to encourage people to go back and look at Randall going to another level. I don't I actually really thought he was gonna take a swing at somebody and get ejected. So we'll see if they have suspensions. I watched it again today um many times . He seemed under control, under control to me and just incredibly strong. My takeaway from that was Julius Randle is just so fucking strong that if he gets into these scrums, the whole scrum is moving in whatever Julius Randle, into whatever direction he's pushing, that's where it's going. Good things come in force, like ukulele strings, boy band members, and PayPal pay in four. No fees, no interest, no impact on your credit score, just the flexibility to pay the way that works for you. Strum it, hum it, pay it in for. Download the PayPal app to get started. Subject to approval. Learn more at PayPal.com slash Payin4. PayPal Inc., NMLS910457 . Introducing the new best skin ever ultra slim precision concealer from Sephora Collection. It's full coverage with a matte finish and perfect for any look, whether you're building it up for a full glam moment or targeting correction for a more natural vibe. At only $12 , it's great for affordable touch-ups on the go. Get this new must-have concealer at Sephora or at Sephora. com today . Hmm. All right, Knickshawks really quickly. It was absolute panic time after game three for the Knicks fans. I know you know a lot of them. I know a lot of them too. I was just shocked by um the ang st . Knicks come out. Guess what? When the Knicks have the lead for most of the game, pretty fun ride. They took the lead early, kept they were up by 10, 11, 12, 15, 8, 12, uh, and never gave it up. That only things that I noticed other than that they weren't playing from behind was they won more 50-50 balls. They played through towns a little bit more. It was you know, it wasn't like he took 40 shots. And they gave us uh a whiff of Alvarado. Yep. But the big, the big thing was that Atlanta just sucked. I thought they were just awful. Um, it it was a butterfingers game. I watch with uh your old Grantland teammate Rembert Brown. Oh, poor Rem. Every time he's come over, uh I think he's come over for an Atlanta loss regardless of the sport. And we were just saying it's this is a butterfingers game. Every 50-50, you could just tell they're gonna lose it. Guys in traffic, you they're just gonna lose it, rebounds, bouncing off hands, going to the Knicks, and they just really sucked. Um 10 for 41 from three for Atlanta. And I thought the Knicks were leaving Daniels and Jalen Johnson and a Kongwu. Basically, if you want to shoot that, you're open for a reason. Good luck. Well, they should. I mean, that should be, you know, the Hawks want to get into the paint and knife around in there and get to the rim and they should go under on screens when they can for all those guys. And it's on the Hawks to make it hard through disguise and creativity and all that for them to do that. But I think the Knicks' two wins in this series have been two of their very best defensive games of the whole season. Towns has been pretty sound defensively throughout the whole series and including in those two games. And I understand the angst if you're a Knicks fan because this is just on paper. They should be up three one. This should just be a a a a run of the mill favorite over underdog has a chance to close it out in five first round series. And in the middle of their two pretty emphatic wins are two one-point losses, both of which they could have, should have had multiple chances to win and didn't, partly thanks to CJ McCollum being unbelievable, partly thanks to some puzzling coaching decisions, partly thanks to the Hawks being good, but this fe doesn't this feel like it should be three-one Knicks and just we're barely thinking about the series because it goes the way these series tend to go. And now can I say two and a half to one and a half? That's fine. They better win the game five because you think it was angsty going into game game four. If they're down three, two going to Atlanta, look out. Bench Karmo is great . For the series, Atlanta is 32% from three . D Daniels is I'm sorry, Jalen Johnson's twenty-eight percent, Daniels is fourteen percent, Kaminga is eighteen percent. Cominga, I want to single out for being singularly hil horrific in game four. Um that was wow, it just really just it was like throwing a grenade on the court. He just couldn't have been worse. We've also seen the flip side of that when he comes in and he's awesome. That's just who he is. He's trick-or-treat. It was uh trick in that game. But uh I just wrote down in in bol d I do think the Hawks blew their window for this series. I think they could have if they had come out and thrown a couple of punches and made some threes and gotten in the crowd into it and gotten the Knicks a little nervous. I would have been really interested to see what happened the second half. Um, but they did not do any of that. Here's uh the only I mean, I I don't I the Knicks are an endlessly fascinating puzzle to me. They look great for one game, great for two games, crappy for one game. You never know what is going to happen with them. The one thing I would say about the Hawks and their chances is I still didn't love the way the Knicks half court offense looked in that game, despite the fact that the same simple play of Jalen Brunson setting a backscreen for OG and Nobi in the corner worked like 17 times as if the Hawks were just like, I guess we just can't adjust to this. We're just going to let OG dunk eight more times. And I then I looked up the numbers because it seemed to me like the Knicks were just just every transition chance they had to your point about 50-50 balls. And if you go to cleaning the glass, their half court points per possession in that game was like average-ish and transition, it like breaks my laptop when I bring up their transition points per possession. That's like that's that's the Josh Hart stuff, right? I mean that's the stuff that he brings and I mean I mean the other thing is it's not like the McKill Bridges question was really answered. He played 19 minutes in that game, even though Mike Brown started him. And didn't you think it was weird when Mike Brown was like, I'm not gonna tell you who's starting, but whatever decision is made is my decision. I'm like, did anyone think like did anyone think it was not going to be your decision? Like what question what question are you answering right now? Rick Brunson was in play . Maybe that was uh speaking to Rick. Um Bridges has reached the it's a bonus if he does anything in these games part of uh his contribution to the season, it feels like. But the flip side is OG has been so good and so awesome that the Seesaw, the OG Bridges Seesa ws now like this, but OG's been so good they're almost okay with it because they're getting the what they're getting from Hart. I was I never understood why they gave up on Alvarado. I know that he wasn't um hitting threes for weeks on end and had become unplayable. But I just think in a playoff series he's annoying and he's the kind of guy who can come in in the second quarter and somebody like CJ McComb's like, God damn it, I hate going against this guy. This is not going to be a fun five minutes. And I think I really value those guys in a series. Well, first of all, he had a just an all-time great Grand Theft Alvarado in the game. He did. Second of all, um, you just have to add them to your list of when you act when you go through it, guards the Houston Rockets could have and didn't trade for uh that might have helped right now list . I mean that's that list is a hundred deep. It's pretty deep. Colin Sexton is like I mean, watching these games like I mean, I could have really Colin Sexton is like I was right here. Like I'll I won't I'll I won't throw the ball away if we're up by six . Well, I think what's funny and maybe not funny about the Rockets is keeping Van Vliet because he was so important as a locker room guy and he wanted to be there and you didn't put him in a trade and which I get. That's that's great. But who has a worse locker room in chemistry than the Rockets? Maybe they could have afforded to trade Van Buiet for somebody who could dribble the ball and protect a six-point lead with 30 seconds left. Bridges for the series is 7.3 points a game. OG's averaging a 21 and 9, and he's shooting 52% from three. And feels like he's hit nine huge threes with the shot clock expiring and the Knicks have having nothing going on. Just bailing You it was conceivable that the Knicks were gonna be down three one heading into a game five to the to our earlier points. Yeah. It was in the air. You could feel it. I think game five is gonna be an awesome game. If we're talking about what's gonna be the most compelling game fives, and we're taping this before these last two games that happened today. But these are game, these are game fours, so Right. Um Minnesota , Minnesota, Denver game five is obviously a must-watch with a lot of like big picture yoke legacy stuff at stake. And I think Nick's Hawks would be the other kind of must watch for me. Orlando Orlando, Detroit. The dony't even have a the we have a game four coming up because that series has been a little staggered. But Knicks Hawks, like I still feel like the Hawks could just shoot better and hang around with them and then just try to get it to the last three minutes. And I thought the same way with you about the Knicks half court offen se . I mean it's gonna be a fascinating game. I'm hoping to be there. And uh you gotta go to that one. I would I would demand you go. My credential application has been filed. Um and we'll see. Uh these games get crowded and all that. But uh Do you want me to talk to Bobby Bakala and who are the other Sopranos that go? I don't know about the other Sopranos, but I I mean the Knicks have more celebrity fans than the Lakers somehow. I'm gonna call Modine. See if there's extra tickets. He hasn't been there. I haven't seen him there. Susie Esman, when we give her a ring. Yeah, get Susie on the on the horn. Um you gotta go to that one. Uh but no, I mean like the E ast is again, who uh who wants this conference other than well, I mean we're taping this before Boston Philly. If Boston blows the crap out of Philly. We'll do that in the first segment because Boston will give us right now it's 11 to 10, so we got to go pretty soon. I got to do a really quick parent corner with you before we go. Shoot . So Amazon Prime, they do the thing where if it's like three devices are using it, they shut one down or four. I forget what the number is. So my my daughter's using my Amazon Prime, which is fine because she's my daughter. I'm sure yours will be in college someday using your Amazon or one of your other streamers. And I was using two different ones because there's two games going on and it logged me out of one of the things. And it was because my dad was logged into my Amazon. So to call my dad . My dad's like, Well, I can't get Amazon unless I'm on your Amazon. And I'm like, but dad, you you have Amazon Prime . I do? Yeah. You guys have Amazon Prime. That's when you get packages or you send stuff. Like, you pay for Amazon Prime. I'm positive. And he's like, but that so my Amazon Prime would get me the games . I'm like , yeah , you have Amazon Prime , which would allow you to use Amazon Prime to then watch the game on your Amazon Prime. So we walked through this and my my wife and I were on speaker just like ridiculing him. Oh, that's not nice. No, we that's we love to make fun of my dad. But I realize they should be doing PSAs . I really think they should, Amazon Prime should have a whole ad campaign. Like, the game is on Amazon Prime, and guess what? You have it . You actually pay for it. The more you know Amazon. You already have Amazon Prime. Go to it. Hear the button. Then look, the game is going to be on there. You don't have to steal it from your kids. So I just the streamers things, it's been really rocky this first year, not knowing what games are on. I did, I went to three before I landed on ESPN for the first game today. Um it's like a little game show. Uh my eighty-three year old father has figured it out. You he could they they come over for they they come over for dinner every once at least once a week and they were I think they came Thursday and he was like, Hey, are the are all the games uh on prime tonight and i was like yeah it's like you know what i'm gonna i'm gonna give it a try see see see how see how how it goes i'm like okay you don't you don't have to call my my younger sister is the one who usually does the gets a little dicey. No she, does the tech aid to the parents, but um, like I can't get on the Zoom kind of stuff. Uh but he figured it out and was watching the games. I think it's been a real problem in bars because I mentioned this on a podcast about bars and hotels recent ly and got a a few emails from people who were talking about being at a crowded bar with people telling the bartender to put on Amazon and just them just basically like doing the Borat. Like we'll get everyone will get there. We'll all get there at some point. It's just this is how it was going to go. But yeah. So to the parents out there, the older parents, you probably have Amazon Prime. Stick with it. Yeah, stick with it. It's gonna happen. Okay. Sacklow, you podcast Tuesday morning? Yes. Okay. Um, and then you're going to the MSG with uh Bobby Bakala and AJ Soprano on Tuesday night. That's that's the plan. That sounds great. All right. Good to see you. Thanks to Gajau and Eduardo as well. I'm coming back on Tuesday with uh another podcast plus rewatchables Ghostbusters Monday. Buckle up, get ready for that one. Uh thanks everybody. Thanks to Netflix too.