Role Player Definitions and Draft Debates

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And as you know, I've been telling you for years, FanDuel, the best place to bet the teams, players, and plays during the NBA postseason, build the same game parlay for a shot at a better payout, or try live betting and jump into the action after tip-off, or just follow me and my picks, because every once in a while I'll put them on social. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app right now and play your game. Twenty-one plus select states or 18 plus DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Game problem called 1800 Gambor, call 888-789-7777 or visit CCPG.org slash chat connected It is the Bill Simmons Podcast. We are live on Netflix. Rob Mahoney is here. We're coming right after a game that I'm frankly shock ed by the result. I'm not shocked San Antonio won Rob. Yeah. I'm shocked that it was a blowout, especially at halftime. It felt like they hung around, hung around, hung around, hung around, and we were gonna have this awesome second half . But my first question to you. So game one of this series game one of of Nick's Cavs, which was that awesome Brunson game, the comeback. And it was just basketball bliss for 202 4 straight hours. We haven't had a good basketball game since. Cousin Sal's plus Cousin Sal is that nine and a half point thing that he does where it's nine and a half point favorites. Thatve got' seven straight nine and a half point favorit es cover. And we just had bad basketball. So what what happened? Did we just we paid all the taxes for those two games and that's it? I think some of the games in this series have been better than the final score. We're at least getting like three really high, like well-played quarters often from these teams. They're just one critical stretch in which one or the other pulls away. But yeah, it does feel like we sold our souls or something. Like we paid a really heavy cost. We got the great weekend of historic basketball. And now we just all have to deal with the consequences. I thought today would be the makeup for all the crappy games we've been watching, but um you're right. This is like good bad basketball because there's so much chess going on. Um to watch San Antonio do this twice to OKC in three games basically, I thought I thought OKC was gonna win tonight, but I thought it was more because of the Castle Fox thing, which I just couldn't I couldn't get that out of my head how I didn't think Fox looked right the last couple games. Has not. And he looked bad tonight. And I didn't I didn't think Harper looked good either. And then Harper was awesome today. And you think like Wemby had that just, you know, lights out classic Wemby first half. But Harper was the other piece of it, and they were still up seven. And if you had told me they're gonna get these two first halves from these two guys. I would have thought they were up 20. Didn't matter. They ended up blowing them out in the second half. So what happened? What what did you think the number one thing was? Yeah, that's the thing. I think based on the first half, it felt like the Spurs were winning, like technically winning, but the Thunder were hanging around as you mentioned and they were just like gutting out enough possessions to make you think, Yeah, okay, if if there's any turn in this game, if there's any change in the momentum, if OKC comes out in the second half and their offense looks any cleaner, then this thing could really break their way. It turned out the opposite was the case, which is the Spurs completely tightened the screws and just suffocated all life out of the Thunder offense. And it's been one of these things that's been flying a little under the radar in these playoffs that the Spurs have just been the single most dominant third quarter team in the entire postseason. And it's a weird thing to think about a young group. We're used to thinking about, you know, the juggernaut Warriors in that capacity, maybe, but I think it's an incredible credit to Mitch Johnson. Like the Spurs are so young, and a bunch of 20-year-olds in like a tough stretch are not gonna be able to figure out the tactical adjustments of like exactly how they need to pivot strategically. But you take a break, you let them reset, you give them couple of talking points and a little bit of film, and they come out and they just throw like an absolute haymaker against the defending champions. It was amazing to watch in the third. And you know, the other thing, what you just said about San Antonio was true for O KC at the end of these halves . And you could feel coming in the end of this second quarter. They're just like closers in the last three, four minutes of these second . And it's like, oh, they were up four. Now they're up eighteen. What just happened. Or they're down twelve. Now they're down two. What just happened? And San Antonio kind of rode that off too. I think OKC got it to within maybe three, but then it ended seven at halftime, which I thought was big. So in the third quarter, 20 to nothing San Antonio run. OKC had a seven-minute drought. Yeah. Where they went oh for 14 at one point. Uh there was one point where they were six for twenty-six from three. I mean, one thing we learned from them last year, if they're not making threes at all, no, anyone can beat them, especially if uh if you're home. But um And this seesaw has been crazy over the last four games. Forty five percent, eighteen percent, 44%, 24%. Like that is a a wild level of like erratic offense when Shea has also just been like really inefficient from the field. And like they they are reliant on at least one of those things breaking for them to win. So if I'm if I'm a fan base here in this game and there's two choices, what am I most nervous about on each side heading into game seven after watching these first six. 'Cause for me, it would be for OKC uh I didn't J Dub didn't exactly instill a ton of confidence in there. AJ Mitchell's just gone. I don't I don't think we're seeing him again. Um, and that second creator thing, which didn't bother them in game five, but did bother them in this game. Um, but the three point shooting would be the thing that made me nervous. For San Antonio, if I'm a fan of them, it's Fox . And then it's just like, which Wemby am I getting? Because Wemby was the big winner tonight. He had the makeup for the game five, which I still don't know what he was doing in game five. He did the the uh the Van Damme hard hard uh hard foul demand at the end of game five. Put out the hit, turn turned into Martin Cove and karate kid. Um and then didn't talk to the media. God forbid you do that. We need your boring quotes. Um , but basically it was awesome this game. The Spurs are three and oh when he's awesome in this series. Is it just that simple for the Spurs? Is that what I would not be nervous about him? I'm a Spurs fan. This guy is showing up for game seven. He's the next one. I think what you would be nervous about is he was awesome in this game, but Oklahoma City took away the vast majority of anything going to the basket. They blew up a lot of the lobs going to Wemby. Any like straight line hits in transition they were able to take away. He put up a ton of points because he made a ton of jumpers. And granted, I would never want to be on the other side of that bet. Like, are you willing to bet your season and your title defense on the idea that he won't do that again? Wouldn't be me. But if you're gonna play like a gamble here of something, you have to give up something to Victor Webany ama. And late in a series, if you're the Spurs, you just have to get a little used to settling for whatever is left, right? The other team has schemed away the three best things you have going on every possession. Yeah. If what's left is Victor Webanyama shooting over the top of literally anyone in front of him, both from three. And then we saw him in this game kind of get to some of those like mid-range into the elbow into like little turnarounds in the paint. If that stuff is gonna be available to him, I think you're fine with it, but it's not the same as you know the uh 97% accuracy of a Victor Webanyama dunk. Right right. Well they were doing one thing I noticed they were trying to set these little sneaky picks for him that would then send him flying down, not for a lob, but Yeah. So I don't know. That was the one experimentation thing that seemed like that it worked a few times. But I just thought it was such a weird OKC performance. She w Shea didn't get involved at all in the first quarter. They missed a ton of threes. There were a lot of like Lou Dort threes. I think he took five in the in the first half, and they're playing all those hockey lineups, and it felt like he never found a lineup that had the right rhythm. And I don't what what is your OKC lineup that you like the most? Obviously as Caruso and SJ out there, do you like when they go two bigs? Like what's your favorite of all the options? I do think it has both bigs and it has Caruso and Shea. I I think at this point it is Jared McCain. Like I think J Dub is so limited. You know, he is trying to gut out these like quick bursts of playing time that they're giving him, but when he tried to do something with the ball, it just kinda went nowhere. Uh I I don't I don't expect much more than him being a decoy. We've seen like Isaiah Joe get played out of the rotation. Actually Case I think Casey Wallace is a decent option if that fifth spot too. He had like a really ballsy game during the the really difficult parts of it in particular. And when you're thinking about a game seven, that's the criteria, right? It's like who who is up for making the absolutely brutal, relentless play that's not going to look pretty, that's not going to pan out, that's not like the thing you would script up, but ultimately who can come away with those balls. And I I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna change it and go from McCain to Caston Wallace on that reason alone. I think I I want a one more dog in that fight if I'm the Thunder. What's the ideal Thunder final score of a game seven? Is it in the one tens? Is it like a ninety-two to eighty-five ? Because if you're going for like your all defense kind of side , then you're gonna see more case and walls. I thought he was really good tonight. I mean, he had two plays in a row where he just took the ball from the Spurs. He had three threes. Um I would have wanted a little more from him, but I wonder like, do you just do threes, rebounds, bother Wemby, and then just hope SGA gets 30 and you can kind of eke out one of those 99 and 92 type games? I think like game sevens almost always turn out that way, regardless of what you want, but all three thunder wins have been in the one twenties, right? Like and and some of their losses have been among the lowest scoring offensive output games of this entire era in terms of what they're scoring. So it really is a feast or famine thing. And I think a lot of that is Shea, who I mean he looks so uncomfortable in this game. I I I can't remember the last time we saw him settle for this many shots, and there's just like a layered deep, like a layered defensive impact where the Spurs are so good at denying him the ball. And you saw it with Castle, but you also see like Devin Vassell doing it, you know, Penny doing it. Basically, anyone who is cross-matched or switched is taking like shaving time off the clock and taking some life out of the Thunder offense right off the bat. Then when Shea does get the ball, he has to chart where Wimby is at all times. He has to be extra careful. And then he ended up with so many like late clock bombs in his hand that he just had to hoist up. It's I it it really is an uncanny thing seeing a guy who's so used to playing at his own pace all the time, playing basically this entire game on somebody else's terms . I have no feel for the series at all. I think I've picked five of the six games wrong . And every time I think I have a feel for it, it zags the other way. Yeah. And this one is like basically, you just have to guess if Wimby's gonna have an awesome game or not. And if he has an awesome game, it just seems like San Antonio is a better team with the OKC injuries. Um so he's one winner tonight . Devin Vassell fucking love Devin Vassel. Just for this whole playoffs, I you want to pigeonhole him as a three and D guy, but I almost feel like he's a three and D plus. Oh yeah. Like he's he's a level over a role player, but he's not an all-star, but he's in that nice nice zona. But one of the things I love about he should have gotten a tech. It's been a tech all playoffs. They didn't call it tonight, but when he blocked Chet, he shoved him and then talked shit to him, which has been a technical foul this entire year. It's it's literally the first time this year, they didn't call it because I think the refs were after the Tony Brothers massacre that happened in game five. Um, which I was being really I had legs on after game five. I was really careful talking about how I felt about the refs because I just thought it was an apocalypse. Um but after that, it really felt like the refs were like, hey, we're we we want to let the players decide this one. We don't, we're not here just do your thing um but that was a classic Vasselle play where he brings a lot of fuck you to their uh to their team I really trust him I trust him as a number four guy I don't know how many like movement sho oters you could say that about, right? These like skinny, like lithlanky guys who are running around ball screens, catching on curls and shooting. He's like how many six-five shooters legitimately play bigger than than they do all the time in the way the Vasel. He guarded Chet tonight. He guarded Chet and that's not the first like fuck you block he's had on Chet in this series. He comes up with huge defensive plays. He comes up with big time like contested defensive rebounds. He he's like the antithesis of the archetype that frustrates me the most. Like the empty stats, like I put up 18 on jump shots, but I give you literally nothing else, is like those are among the most frustrating players for me to watch. Devin Vassell will give you maybe not that kind of scoring output every night, but he does so many other little things all the time that feel instrumental to a series like this one. Yeah, I always call it like yeah, I don't know, he had 13, 14, and I it was a loud 13. Right. His points, his performances are loud. And I think Castle's like that too. Yeah. Castle's one of those guys you look at , does he have like 30 points? And it's like now he has 16. But he's all over the place. He had nine assists, I think, today too. Um, I think with Fasel , he's been thrown in these trades for two years, right? It's like, oh, Trey Murphy. Oh, well, if he if they went after Giannis, we'll put him in. He's just always the constant because he's making like 25 million a year. He's good, but you can always feel like you do better. I think he's kind of the perfect fourth guy for them. Yeah. I mean that really the issue if you're thinking about upgrades all summer with no matter what happens with them uh you know in game seven and even in the finals . Fox is gonna be the big question. If they lose this Oklahoma series, he's gonna be the one everyone points to, and how hurt was he? he Was healthy? Um , he's clearly hurt. He's that like he can't really move very well at all. And seems like he has no lift. And and the thunder are basically betting. Like we don't have to take him off the ball very seriously. Like we don't really have to respect him in the corner. We don't have to rotate out to him super hard because we don't think he can beat the closeout. If we just put a Lou Dort in front of him, we'll mostly be fine. And they've been pretty much right about that part of things. Yeah, he doesn't have that little drive into the lane, that little spin move backwards for that 13 footer, the little 13 foot turnaround, just doesn't have the lift anymore. Another winner for the oh good. I was gonna say Harper's a huge part of that too. Like to the extent that De'Aaron Fox feels expendable, which is a crazy thing to say about a player as good as De'Aaron Fox, I think some of it comes with the fact that Dylan Harper is already so good so quickly and he he's gonna have massive expectations on him at all times, I think, because he's one of these guys who you see him just breaking down the best perimeter defenders in the sport one after another. Yeah. And if you can do that, there's always going to be that tension of like, why can't you do more? Especially coming off of a game like game five where he was invisible. Like you you would not recognize his presence in that game. You would have to double check the box score to make sure he even played it. And then he comes out in a game like this and he's just in front of everybody turning the corner all the time, looking super aggressive. And I think he can kind of turn that up whenever he wants to. That's the most terrifying thing about him at this stage. And seems healthy, finally. Yep. I don't, I didn't feel like he looked like him in two, three, four, and five. He was awesome in game one. He was awesome in this game. Took the spotlight off of uh Fox who stunk. Um another winner tonight, garbage time. San Antonio put out the Tpleri Towers . Olen ek Biambo Plumley. Yeah, we're going to the first time we'd seen that. I didn't even know they were they would do that. It was almost like in hockey when uh it's like a six-two playoff game and they put out the fourth line with like all the guys can fight and they're just kind of skating around in case anything happens for a couple minutes. That was the vibe I was getting. Nothing happened. It's a different kind of high drama, but we all escaped unscathed somehow. Wait, were you surprised how they use Biombo as like a stretch stretch seven? I don't even know if he's a stretch five. He's just twenty-five feet from the basket for no reason. Given that Bismatic Biombo's in the NBA in 2026. Nhingot else can surprise me. It's amazing. Um another big winner, NBC. They get a Saturday night game seven. I actually thought their crew, which I think has been pretty up and down because the two Reggie's Reggie and Jamal Crawford feeling it out. But I thought they did a good job tonight. Jamal Crawford he had a couple great points tonight. Like when he like J Dub had a turnover, like where he fumbled the ball out of bounds. I have liked this one too. Yeah. and And and Crawford said, yeah, that's what happens when you're rusty. The the hardest thing to come back is your ball handling. I'm like, oh, okay, nugget. I'll take it. It's an incredibly astute point. And we should also say exactly the thing that Jamal Crawford, one of the great ball handlers in history, would say. It's like, yes, your thing would be the thing to go. But I do think he's right. Like it it it is where you feel clumsiest coming back or where you see a player like J-Dub, just looking a little out of sorts, a little out of rhythm. Like, how can you ask a guy to jump into a series this competitive and this brutal? Like, this was an incredibly physical game. Bodies were hitting the floor all over the place, not in the Zapruder level analysis of flopping kind of way, but in the like people are getting a few. No, this is a rugby game. Absolute rugby game. A skirmish and a scrum to get every loose ball. And you're just throwing JD up out there and being like, I I guess see what you can do. It's it's a lot to ask of him. That was another reason in the second quarter why I thought OKC was gonna come back. 'Cause once the refs were allowing three bodies on the ground for half the plays, isn't that what O KC wants? They have Dort and Caruso and Hartenstein and and uh Jaywill. Like that that sounds great for them. And they have SGA who's good at navigating that stuff. But it turned out to be way better for San Antonio. Yeah. Um I think weirdly, A.J. Mitchell is a winner. Thought they really missed his ad-lib offense, second ball handler, take the pressure off Shay, because otherwise you're just looking at Jared McCain, who you know, who has been, I would say considering for what they gave up on him, like a revelation in these playoffs. But this was a lot doing this in San Antonio against a crazy crowd, they really needed him to be awesome in this game. And you know, he's a second-year guy. I I really do respect with McCain though. I mean, he's a crucial ball handler for them right now, as you mentioned, and he will actually go at Wemby in a way that other guys won't. And he'll just see kind of like if I bump him just enough, can I get a layup up? Can I get something up on the rim so you know Cheddar Hardenstein can clean it up? He's aggressive in ways they need him to be aggressive. He's just not quite up to the level of doing that as a driver right now. He's clearly a flamethrower shooter, and we've seen the like the thunder tap into that when they really need it. But they need the ball handling right now more than they need the shooting. All right. So when we think about game seven, which is two days from now, we've gone every other day and we've both teams are a little banged up . We've seen the Wemby, you kind of know in the first quarter with him if he has it or not from a I'm all over the place. I have the eye of the tiger or wow, Wemby looks tired. And it's just one of those two worlds. This is a game seven . It's hard to say who has the most at stake in this game, because it's a game seven to get to the finals. So technically everybody has something at stake. But Wemby knocking out OKC, be down three-two, knocking out the back-to-back champs, a team that won, what did they win? Like 132 games in two seasons. And him basically, if they're going to win, he's going to be the best player in that game. Yeah. And at age twenty-two, I had the four of the seven best games in the series and we won four games to three. And now here we come, New York Knicks. You are now on a like I feel like he has the Who do you think has the most at stake? Yeah, I mean Wemby has the most to gain probably for that reason. Most to gain, but not a lot to lose, because you're right. I think right or wrong, we will expect that he has a lot of time ahead of him to be in series in competitive situations like this one. The most at stake. I mean it the Thunder are in such an odd place overall, just in terms of their reputation and like their place in the basketball consciousness. It's like they're defending champions and they get a lot of respect based on that. But clearly they're not the most liked team in recent basketball history. And I wonder if they lose a series like this one. And let's say next season is also a challenging one for whatever reason. Like you can see their story taking a really sharp turn. I I don't think that's what's going to happen. I kind of do expect that OKC will win game seven. Um, I don't know that we're really in a position to predict anything at this point, uh, given the way the series has gone. But within that, the idea of Shay coming out of the series shooting like 37% from the field in a in a round that even though the Thunder are injured, they lose. I could see there being a lot of questions and a lot of interrogation about just like them and the construction of their team and what they should be moving forward. And there's some do we have the right team to battle Wemby? We just lost to him and that the Spurs aren't even really the Spurs yet. We would open a lot of questions. Definitely a lot more like, oh man, we're already searching for answers here. We just won a cajillion games. We won the title last year. Now we have to question ourselves. Um , I think from San Antonio's side , I'm trying to think like ranking dudes who would have to come through because game sevens, they're slower, they're uglier, they're more on the rock fight side. Yep. What we have seen though in recent years is road teams being able to go on the road and winning game sevens, which in the old days you just won game sevens at home. That's just how it went. And then that started to shift. And now every once in a while we seem to have these Philly at Boston, Dallas at Phoenix. We have these ones where they're not even just winning on the road. They're killing teams on the road. They're just eradicating them. With that said, I do feel like the home court has mattered unusually in this series because it ramps up the defense on both sides. The three-point shooters are going to be a little more comfortable at home. Um San Antonio for the guys that have to come through. One of Vassell and Champagny. Yes. I need f a four or five, three game for one of them. I need Harper to play like he did today, period. I need Fox not to suck like he did. I don't need him to be good, but you can't suck. You can't go like one for ten. Um, and I need Wemby to be closer to where he was in the three wins than the three losses. What else needs to happen for them? I think they probably need another stretch like they had tonight where they look really good in the minutes without Webman Yam on the floor. Like this was one of the first times where that really broke for them in the series. They looked confident. They were hitting shots. The ball movement was really good. The energy felt right. And that's an area where like Keldon Johnson has become a really important player for them in this series from an energy standpoint. And as Fox has kind of faded into the background and when Harper was hurt, Keldon was one of the few guys who was consistently driving for them. Uh so I I would say he's pretty important for them too in sort of counterbalancing the upswing of OKC's role players at home. Well, we have Thunder by three and a half on FanDuel is our game seven line. Yeah. Today's game seven line or game six line was Spurs by three and a half. And I think the last game was Thunder by three and a half. So it's just basically whoever some is that must be the uh established home court advan tage. Um from a referee standpoint . So if it's if they're not calling stuff like they did today, usually I would think that helps OKC, but today it really helps San Antonio. Yeah. It feels like the kind of game when there's a million fouls is always better for OKC . Um we'll see who we who we'll get. Today we had Zach Zaraba . Um I forget who else, but I'm sure we'll get James Capers is probably the best ref they have. Maybe Mark Davis, but hopefully it's not another Tony Brothers 80 fouls situation would be my my one guess. We simply can't. But can Dorton Caruso unleash the , you know, the Bruce Brothers routine? Are they gonna be allowed to do it? Um are they gonna ramp up their stuff on Fox and Harper. Um and does Wemby have it in him this early? Yeah. I think because if he does, we're going to have four days to talk about a Spurs Knicks finals and it's just going to be a Wemby fest. You're going to have this new the new generational superstar here, and then you're gonna have the most famous team we have other than the Celtics and the Lakers trying to win their first title in 53 years. And it's gonna be about as good from a from a hype finals is we're gonna have. Well it's already been a Wimby fest. I mean have you been listening to this podcast? Have you been listening to group chat? Like it's it's all we can all talk about because we're I mean games like this are why you know yeah it was a totally different kind of dominance than I think a lot of people were calling for. There was a lot of like, how do you get Wemby closer to the basket? How do you get him attacking more? Turns out he can just beat you this way too on some nights. And if he's gonna be hitting stepbacks against Isaiah Hardenstein, that might just be it. Like that just might be your season right there. Uh I I really can't wait for this. I I do think as far as the OKC like balance of all that physicality and what the refereeing looks like, even if they're giving a lot of leeway on that stuff, I think Lou Dor just has to play less. Like the self-destructive possessions that we've been talking about with this game, there were like maybe five to seven of those in the first half alone between the hijacking possessions from three , like looking off of swing passes that he should have made and taking his own. He like flopped really badly on defense, like trying to sell a moving screen that then led to a wide open three. There were just so many possessions like that, where I think in a game seven , you can't leave anything to chance. It needs to be like a Caruso playing 36 minutes and a Lutort playing 10 to 15 minutes. Like even this felt like too much. Two for eleven, one from nine for three in twenty two minutes. It was a minus nine. Even if you look at all his games in May, he's only scored ten points once. Six, three, ten, six, five, eight, zero, two, seven five. Eye test wise doesn't look uh like the same guy from last year. He's a little bit older, and he's like a running back or a tight end who has a lot of miles on him. And he has a team option on him next year that I'm sure is weighing over his head too. Like, you know, he's playing for his next contract. And I don't know. He just has looked out of sorts this whole time. I thought, I've said this before, I thought he was the reason him and Caruso were the reasons they won that game for in Indiana, which I think if they lose that game, I don't think they win the series no matter. I don't think we get to a game seven against Halbert and George's defense too, like they really didn't need his scoring until this point, right? In the first two rounds, like the Thunder were doing just fine, put like going basket for basket. Shea was scoring at a much higher level. Chet was a more kind of like versatile unlocked offensive weapon. Although he's kind of he's kind of tilted up as the series has gone on, I think with the offensive rebounding in particular , but they're just in these games where everything goes to shit for them, they are so desperate for offense. And Lou Dort is, he is contributing to the strangulation that's happening there. Yeah, I don't love plus minus, but even in the game the other night, eighteen minutes minus four in a game that they won by thirteen. Yeah. And then what was he in this last one ? Yeah, minus sixteen in seventeen minutes. I'm with you. I wonder like this is one of the things, I mean, I love so many things about a game seven. You're just making different decisions than you're doing all year. Yeah. It's like you're not there to you don't care if feelings are hurt in a game seven. It's like, hey Lou Dort, you're gonna play eight minutes tonight. And that's just how it's gonna go. Hey Crusoe, you might play 32. We'll see what what Wemby can pull out of him from a from a minutes standpoint. I don't really understand his how he's tired one day and then not tired the next. But when I saw him dressed what was he dressed like a m like a monk today? Yeah. What was that outfit? It was I think it was, no? Throwback to where did he go to talk to the monks? Tibet. Shout out to the to everyone from Tibet with that outfit. It's really something. Will win. I don't feel great about it. Clearly, the line between these two teams is very thin, but then varies wildly in terms of what the actual margin of victory is. I think for me, the shooting of the role players tilting back OKC's way, as it seems like it just will when they go back home and every other game. Uh, the nerves kind of playing into their favor, having been in games like this before, and specifically for Shea, like when it comes down to who do you feel confident will have the lift and the balance in their game in those moments. I I do think you tilt a little toward the experience of someone like the Thunder in this case. And I do think that guys like Chet have made just enough of a a change over the course of the series . He's he's been good defensively pretty much the whole way through, but he's finding enough ways to score where I'm like, I can kind of see the whole picture of a Thunderwind coming together, even though based on tonight's game film you would never expect him. Who do you think the Knicks want to win? I think the Knicks want the most injured version of the Thunder to win possible. Like a banged up worn and torn thunder. Yeah. I don't think uh even with how they played in the regular season and in the cup with the Spurs and all that, both of the teams, but the Knicks and the Spurs were in such different places then. The idea of grappling with this version of Wemby is such a unique challenge and such a daunting one that I I I don't think anyone necessarily wants that versus the Thunder are a great team, a incredibly formidable defense even still, but you see the state that J Dub is in. You see that A.J. Mitchell isn't on the floor and you see kind of like what that does to their offense to lack any kind of supplementary options whatsoever. I think the Knicks would would prefer that sort of matchup than trying to figure out the Spurs . I'm leaning OKC as well. It would be unusual for a team this young to come back from three two and win a game seven against on the road against the defending champs. But you just made the point. These aren't really the defending champs if J Dub is just gonna basically not be playing. Yeah. I mean, I not at this point, like whatever he was doing tonight, I'd rather just not play him and ride with the guys I have. Um I wouldn't be surprised if game seven he plays that like first three-minute blip and then you never see him again. You know, like they they try it for a second just to see if there's any more like traction there. But if it looks like this, I don't think he can play much in that g ame. Unbelievable stuff. Um, Zach Lowe and I are gonna be going live on Netflix after game seven. So my Sunday night pod um this weekend is going to be a Saturday night pod. Um we're just gonna just gonna go for it. We'll see how it goes. Before we before you and I go, Rob Mahomey, the latter reform thing, House and Jacoby and I are about to talk about that after the break. Um, and I'm gonna give my thoughts to them. But the lottery reform , they really went for it. They did a bunch of stuff. There was one piece that we didn't talk about in the next segment that it looks like the second round is gonna reverse in order from I didn't even see this. Yeah. I now it hasn't been confirmed in the reporting yet, but it was one of the things they voted on that basically if you have the 16th pick, you'll have the first pick in the second round and um my to spoiler alert, my thoughts were all this sounds great until we end up with the nineteen ninety-three situation of the magic winning twice in a row. Yeah. Do you do you like this three two one thing I like elements of it. I think there are so there are parts of it that especially in the transition feel super clunky and maybe borderline unfair to some of the teams that are been operating under the assumption of the league as is, as they try to put their teams together. Like the Grizzlies in particular are in such they get such a raw deal because of the trade that they made with the Jazz, where they have the Jazz's pick. Like, I feel like most of the other widespread overhauls of a system like this in NBA history are usually stationed a couple of years out for exactly this reason. It's like, okay, we got to let the pick protections expire. We got to get through this cycle of transactions, and then the changes will start. I applaud like a more urgent dealing, but the trade-off for that is like, I don't know how you could explain this to the Grizzlies. They're like, oh, I'm sorry. I know you thought you were getting what was going to be like a top five pick from the jazz potentially in the future, but you're just fucked. Well, and then the other side of it is like you're Indiana, you trade your first rounder this year that you lose because of the protections. And then you trade your twenty nine first as well. And then all these rules come in . And now that 29 first is a much better pick than it was. I feel like the picks that really weren't like from the shittiest teams that were that next level of like playoff teams or French playoff teams. Like if you have like Miami's first round pick. Yeah. Right. You have Golden State's first round pick, or who knows? Even the having the Celtics pick in 2029, all of a sudden those picks gain value . Yes. And and then the other piece of it where normally like the Celtics had those Nets picks a couple times. And there was one year when uh I think it was the I can't remember which one of them, but Brooke Lopez was just on a heater. And it was like, we're gonna get the top three pick from the Nets. And then Brook Lopez was just going nuts for like two straight months because the Nets had nothing to play for, and they played into a little bit of a later pos ition. Yeah. Now it's like you could have a team's pick. They could play into that four to ten spot, and now you have a better odds at the pick anyway. So I don't know. It's that there's they really, really blew this up in ways that I don't even know what all the ramifications are gonna be. I'm surprised like you that they didn't wait a year and just say, like maybe even with the top five protection or whatever, you know, and the can't win two years in a row, why not start that in 2027? We've seen it again with almost every other giant rule change in the league. And I mean, this is gonna have, I would think, massive repercussions on the trade market in general for exactly what you outlined with the picks, right? Like any mid-level team is going to talk themselves into holding on to a pick because it could be immensely valuable under this new odd standard. And so I'm like, I'm cool with that as somebody who like I like talking about the games more than the potential trades, but I hope the league is okay with the fact that so much of the interest in the NBA is driven by who is the player your team can get. And I just think we're going to see fewer trades as a result of this. Like it's going to really sap a lot of the energy out of or really the ability for these teams to deal with each other if it's all just player for player and there's really not a lot of sweetening involved with the picks. All right. We're gonna I'm taking a break and then Hassan Jobrier coming on. We're doing mailbag, but we talk about lottery reform at the to p. Uh, more importantly for you, not only can we hear you on group chat on the Ringer NBA show, but you're going live on Sunday for uh for the the season or series for now of euphoria. We are not unclear. Season finale, series finale, we have no idea, but you're gonna be live on our Ringer TV YouTube channel, you and Joanna Robinson. Yes. What's it an hour and a half? How long do we think this show's gonna be? I think it's confirmed. It's over 90 minutes. Uh so yeah. Oh my god. We're gonna be going live at 8:30 Pacific. Come along. Maybe every character will be dead. Maybe we'll be setting up like a weird backdoor pilot season four. I don't know what's going on with this show anymore, but I can't wait to find out. Is they they they can't torture Jacob Alordi anymore because he's been killed off, right? Can they torture his corpse? Spoiler alert if you're not caught up on euphoria. It's not going well for Jacob Alordi right now. Well, it's it's gone terribly. It's true. I don't think it could go worse. Correction. It's going very well for Jacob Alorty, who no longer has to be like doing acting in one room by himself on the show anymore. I know. But for Nate Jacobs, he is uh he's having a rough go. I'm you guys are bigger you and Joanne are bigger fans of this season than I was. My daughter is laugh able on everything. So she's like, no no it's good. It's good. I don't think it's been good. And I think you can really feel them filming in different parts of you know you just you know what I like on a TV show when the best characters are all together for scenes. Imagine it. Yeah. A little radical. The other thing we're doing this weekend, because I'm on Saturday night with Zach, rewatch ables now moving to Sunday, and we did uh 2001. So that is coming as well. 2001, a space odyssey will now be running Sunday night for rewatchables. Rob, thanks for staying up with me. Great to see you. We're gonna take a break, come back with uh house of Jacoby. Thanks, Bill . The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. FanDuel giving you better payouts on same game parlays, all NBA playoffs long. More ways to build and more value every time you play. Stack your your picks way, every game, every matchup, every moment. Spreads, player points, threes, unders, whatever you want. Build it all into one same game parlay. Go for bigger payouts. So if you're betting NBA same game parlays this postseason, do it on FanDuel. More options, better payouts, all NBA playoffs long. Head to FanDuel.com slash BS to get started. FanDuel, official partner of the NBA. Play your game. Twenty-one plus select states are eighteen plus DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming, restrictions apply. C terms at sportsbook.fanal dot com. Game prompt code 1800 Gambor, call eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit ccpg.org/slash chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by PayPal on the court, the pitch, the track, even the pool. Professional athletes show extraordinary physical flexibility. For us normal people, we've got PayPal's flexible monthly payment plans. Pay nothing a checkout, then enjoy a flexible monthly payment plan that works for you with no sign up or late fees. And it's available in millions of stores. Pay monthly with PayPal . Subject to approval, pay monthly consumer loans made by web bank, available through PayPal Inc. NMLS 910457. Learn more at PayPal.com/slash All right, we were recording this part of the podcast. It is before game six of Spurs Thunder. So if there's an Artest Melee situation or something crazy, we didn't know about it. The lottery reform came in today, guys. The three-two-one method . Um, there's gonna be thirty-seven balls total. The bottom three teams will get two instead of three. They're it they're calling it the relegation zone. Um, they can't fall lower than the 12th pick, from what I can gather. And um I don't know if I like this or not. I like it more than I did a month ago, but I still feel like House's Wizard s, for instance, if they w w if you had tried the whole year, how many games would you have won House? If you'd really tried. Twenty-ish . I mean with this with the original roster with CJ McCollum, because McCollum, they went on a stretch where they won five of seven games at the end of December into early January. Like, hey CJ, great to see you. Thank you for everything. They literally traded him after that that stretch of success. But I have a more important question, which is to Kobe, which is, you know, how many times has he tried the three-two-one method with his wife? Has he ever been in the relegation zone? The answer is yes. I've definitely been in the relegation zone. Well, here's the thing. You mentioned the the the McCollum trade. So one of the benefits of this, I guess, would be that we're going to see less deadline trades and giveaways, and we're going to see less of just Anthony Davis getting traded for nothing or like what the Bulls did. If I'm the Bulls, like do I trade the Sumu and I do I trade Kobe White if it's not really technically going to make me that much worse and I'm gonna be in that four to ten range, which is gonna have the most ping pong balls anyway. Are we gonna see guys get given away? Um are we gonna see conversely teams that are worried about being in the relegation zone trying to trade for players that will help them. There's all of these ramifications to this that I'm trying to wrap my head around, Jacob's. But the biggest thing, and we were all alive for this, was the 93 lottery when they did 66 balls and they did it was eleven teams in the lottery. House remembers this. We were we were both out of college. And it basically was the most simple way you could do it. The worst team got eleven balls, second worst got 10, third worst got nine, it went all the way down to the best of the worst teams was Orlando who got one ball. They had a one in sixty-six chance and they got Chris Weber, who they then traded for Penny Hard away in three first round picks. And everyone lost their fucking minds. Do you remember this ? Because they got Shaq the year before, then they got Weber, and everybody was like, oh my God, how can this happen? And that led to 30 years of lottery reform, Jacoby. So why wouldn't that happen again with this new system? Well, a couple things. Number one, that's not the biggest thing. The biggest thing is that they're going to televise it. Like we were talking about this last time I was live in person. Like you got to remember, like this, you know, Jacoby the TV producer, gotta put my producer hat on here. Like, this is now a television event instead of like them doing it in some back room and then like a host reading it that to me is the biggest thing is like it'll be a really fun thing to watch franchises change like right there in the moment instead of like it is a little stale when like Ersin Young has it in a briefcase or whatever and it's like in this secret room. I I like the idea that it's going to happen live on television. It's gonna be a television event. The second best thing about this well hold on. We figured it's gonna we figure it's gonna be 37 ball s and just one pops out and that's it. Like they're not gonna do the complicated four balls thing, it'll just be one. Yeah, it'll be like I imagine it'll be like like watching like the the lotto on like the the the five o'clock news when we were kids. There'll be like some hot girl, just like the ball pop up, and they'll have like a team logo. Way easier to fix way easier to fix this. uh the most recent draft was very dramatic. Um and I know that the that people knew the results. I didn't know the results. And it it was it was live enough for me. I mean it was very, very the the last five picks as a fan of of you know the wizard was I was on the edge of my seat. I was barely breathing. That's fair. But that's why we need the actual GMs out there, the people at the most at stake in real time. What was your second favorite thing, Jacobs? Easily. And uh my pod brother Chris Vernon, it was not unanimous. The governors voted 29 , approved, and one did not, and the Memphis Grizzlies were like, fuck this. I love it so much. And that all has to do with the Yu-Kop bank, which we've discussed. But I just I just love the idea that the Grizzlies are just like somehow the Grizzlies get screwed no matter what. Well, the thing is in a fantasy league, if you change the rules this dramatically for the next year where people have future stuff, there would be a lot of arguments and angry emails going back and forth about, Well, I have three first round picks in the minor league draft next year. Now you're changing rules. I mean this is bullshit. You're trying to screw me. Um, but somehow that didn't happen in the NBA. They did add the top five restricted thing. They did add the you couldn't win the picks two years in a row, the first pick. So I like that stuff. But um I don't know. I I I feel like this could lead to some result that we're all completely horrified by, right? Like OKC having somebody's pick who's the 10th pick, and then OKC ending up with the first pick or just some some sort of thing where they're like, oh, this was the worst case scenario and it happened. Because that's what happened with the Chris Weber thing. I don't mind it though. I don't mind the idea of a relegation zone and teams being humiliated. Right. House 's team should have been humiliated the last couple years, and it finally happened with BAM Autobios. Yeah. Right. But that's all they're doing was responding as rational actors to a system that they didn't create, but they certainly leveraged, you know, the opportunity. So we'll see what set of opportunities sounds like we all kind of like this. Well, it's an improvement. And they're also like all MBA changes, they're just like floating out ideas to see how the public reacts to it. And this has got like they call I I read the thing, it's called like a sunset provision. So it actually is only in place for until the 29 year. Yeah. So they can't change it. If something goofy happens, they're sort of being like , we're testing this, it's a three-year test drive, and we'll reevaluate in three years, which I kinda like too. The whole concept of watching your team suck ass for six months and then falling into the relegation zone is really rough . Like we really gotta because there's gonna be some fan bases, like if that had happened to Indiana this year. They don't have Halbert and they lose Turner, they have a bunch of inj injuries the first half of the year. And just by no fault of their own, they ended up bottom three and had two balls instead of three. That's rough. Well, they got the functional equivalent of that. I mean, for all of that pain, they got Zubach. Oh, yeah. Pritchards. They drafted Zubach. Pritchard's gonna apologize again. I'll tell you this. I'll pass along some some intel that's been floating around. Ooh. Um , apparently the kings love AC UF, which I don't think is the super secret. They're at seven. And the Clippers have five and don't need Acuff because they have um they have a point guard already. And it would be really easy for them to flip picks and for them to end up with a little extra something, something from Sacramento, which I guess would be some sort of swap or future pick, whatever. They could turn that Zubach pick into the seventh pick, Indiana's 2029 pick, and then something from Sacram ento, the best team in the league to trade for, which would make it one of the better trades we've had, right? Just for Zub ots, who's like, I like Zub ots. I voted for him 13 a year ago, but that's an incredible trade. I have to get off some stuff that I forgot to do on Tuesday. Um, biggest losers from the Knicks Cavs sweep in the East. I'm just gonna read this to you in no particular order. Uh speaking of Sacramento . Did you see this? This was floating around a little bit about Sacramento, the 2026 finals. If San Antonio makes it, it could be Mike Brown against Dearon Fox. 25, Halliburton was the best guy in a finals team. 24, Luca was the best guy in a finals team who they passed up for Barvin Bagley. And then 2023, Michael Mal one was the coach of the team that won. House, do you have anyone from Sacramento that could throw the Wizards into this for 27? I saw that Sacramento thing. I really admired it. But you know, the the it only uh parallels Washington, this Washington franchise, I think the streak is now up to 18 straight finals, 19th straight finals, where a former Wizard is going to participate in the finals. But the the kings are the gift that keeps on giving. That that's the where our focus should be. It's appropriately there. And let's just let them keep doing what they're doing. It's very good for the basketball. It's very good for the for the narratives. It's very good for our podcast. Like the over under podcast at the beginning, uh, you know, and later. The only things we got right. Zach Lowe was was the the most vicious I've ever seen Zach Lowe. He really loved it. Went dark. It was like watching like a TV drama when the cop goes dark and starts doing weird shit. Um I feel like you guys should be in the relegation zone because of that over under spot test. We probably should. I mean, I I'd be fine with it. We only get to pick twenty five of the teams. Jacobs, we dealt with Sacramento. I think Vivek's a nice guy. I've always run anytime I've run to super nice guy. I'm not sure he should own an NBA team. I'm pretty sure at this point. But we dealt with him for that Grantland thing we did when they picked Stavskis, which was one of those mini documentaries that we had. Well, I forgot what year was that, like 2011 or 12. They let us 13, yeah. Yeah, they're 13. They let us in their draft room, and it was clear nobody wanted to take Stav skis instead except for Vivek, who overruled everyone. It's like Stavskis, Stavskis. And it became this great internet moment. And he's just been giving us comedy ever since . There's nothing was better than the maybe we should play four guys on on on defense thing was like what what forgot about that it's like so it's like some things that shouldn't be said out loud but there was uh it they actually came to us for that they're like we will give you f full access to our draft room. We're like, sure. It ends up being a pretty embarrassing. Expected it. All right. So Sacramento is a loser. Detroit's GM not doing anything at the trade deadline, which we all kill them on on every podcast we have. Well but, why not? But it I really wonder if they watch that going, fuck if we'd had one more score. James Harden , who I thought took a proper um pounding from everybody the last couple weeks, but he's four straight trades now where the team that got him probably has real regrets after the trade . What is what's the equivalent of this house? Like what food order is the I regret it the next day food order, but it seemed like a great idea at 83 0 at night after three drinks. I'm gonna say this with love in my heart. I'm gonna say this respectfully. The answer for me personally is Kentucky fried chicken. For for some reason, for some, it just decimates me. And I only order it under the circumstances you just described. I'm if I'm having fried chicken and I'm sober, then I order Popeyes because Popeyes is by far. And then if uh you know Popeyes isn't, it's Bojangles. I'm in I mean the South, I'm where I've access . But Kentucky fried chicken is everywhere and it does have a tendency to be open till two in the morning uh in a lot of places. Jacobs, you agree with that? The J James Harden, the KFC order? Four straight teams now. Did we have a James Harden last night? Anything after 11 p.m. is the answer. That's the appropriate answer. That's true. That's true. Those are now being called James Hardens. The other great James Harden thing. 98 playoff wins now without a finals appearance , which ties him for the all-time record with Carl Malone . They're they're now linked. Carl Malone and James Harden. Most playoff wins without a finals appearance. All right, so I'm making him a loser. I want to I want to push back. Why why is James Harden a loser a loser as a result of I mean there are very specific things you can point to once again, uh several games where his turnovers exceeded just not running back on fast breaks, just terrible transition defense that's been the story of his career. That's right. That's right. It's been the story of his career. It's no longer a bug, it's a feature. Plus, he's 36 years old. So my my real quibble with Cleveland uh and and Harden, I thought that trade was successful. I think it made sense. They they they couldn't rely on Darius Garland anymore. They went on a run. They you know put themselves in the top four seeds of the east and they you know handled their business um all the way up until they they encountered team that's just better than them. Uh, and and Harden was important to them, especially in the first two series. They both those series went seven games. I'm not defending James Harden, but what I'm saying is I don't think he's a loser based on what we just saw. He's 36 years old. That that the franchise is the loser, especially if they extend him. But James Harden was just James Harden to me. But that's the issue. Jacob's they clearly have a wink wink with him. It's already come out. Yeah. So yeah. It's not just like, oh, we've traded for James Harden's expiring contract and we dumped the Garland thing and we'll be way under the tax next year because this money's coming off. He's gonna get like a two or three year deal for like thirty million a year. So they're actually they're actually stuck with him going forward, knowing that him and Mitchell as a defensive backcourt isn't great. So I would say that's bad. Well I also thought it was bad at the end of um game one when Brunson just went after him possession after possession after possession. Snatched his soul and that wasn't great. And then after the series, the whole stuff. I'm sure Atkinson's g gonnaonna be on this list, but also after the series when he says I I we are the better team, I was like, oh , I I just saw four basketball contests between the two of you and I I I didn't have the same impression, Mr. Harding. Yeah, I that was superb. I loved him for doing that. He was wonderful. I thought I played great defense. I thought we were the better team. Magnificent. Standing ovation. I said some good zags today. Are you going to zag on Kenny Atkinson being one of the big losers in the ground through no no I mean I don't think he'll ever live that down. I feel like that's gonna come up for the rest of his coaching career. He cannot and he should not, and he shouldn't be a head coach ever again. I mean look ing for those timeouts that he held on to in game one. I'm looking for him on eBay. He hasn't put them up yet, but you know, he I I wonder what what price he could get for those. I think he feels like they they were valuable to him in some form or fashion because, they're still in his pocket. He could he can't use now because they they're out not playing any more games. But no, that dude is an assistant coach. The combo of that to James Harden having to bring him back, being way over the luxury tax again, and then having the Knicks fans completely take over your arena for two straight games, which happened in two straight series, by the way. Um, that was about as rough of a sweep as I can remember. We've had bad sweeps. That was like Jacobs. What was the worst sweep than that? It was it was like everything that you would snatching s sweep, right? It had everything you would want because they looked so good at the beginning of game one. And I'm sitting there watching it. I'm like, they the Knicks had too much time off. Like they're too rusty. This other team has been in battles for two seven-game series. They're a better team. They were so much better for that first half. So they had the gut-wrenching loss and over time, then everything else was just completely outclassed for in game two and game three. Then you had the fan takeover, and then you have game four, where Mitchell comes out and he's giving in, he's giving it his his best in the first half. And the second half, they just didn't, they quit. They just gave up. And then you can hear the chants. It was just like it it that's pretty bad. I mean, it's also bad that when they had to come out with like a headline that said like the Cavs are are continuing with Kenny Atkinson. Yeah. And it was shocking. I was like, oh, oh, whoa. I had to read it twice. I was like, oh, they made like an announcement that he's keeping his job. Well, how's the counter is they finished fourth in the 30-team league. Don't overreact. Well, counter to the counter, they were supposed to win 57 games. They were supposed to match the output of the previous year. And they had to trade Darius Garland, you know, before the trade deadline to to capture the winning percentage, and there is no exp explanation other than in and out. I mean, Mobley was supposed to continue to take another step. I mean here's the thing for me, it's a sour situation. You laid it out, B.S. Let me ask you guys this. When let's just look at the calendar, what date before after August the first is the first rumor that Donovan Mitchell would be interested in playing for a different basketball team. And is that as exciting for 12 other teams as it was like a year ago? Um, well, I had the my next loser, Evan Mobley, who I think is now a legit threat to be the fall guy and get sent somewhere, because they got to get into the attacks somehow. And if they if they have the wink wink with Harden, then it's Jared Allen, it's Mobley, or it's or it's or it's Mitch ell. Um Jacobs, do you think could you see yourself at Barclays next year eating a $15 Finny's pizza and watching Mobley run high screens with Ben Seraf ? Is that in play? That's not getting it. What if he was running it with Nolan Treori ? That's not doing that's not doing it for me either. No? You're not not taking that train down there? I I do kind of like Yeegor Joman. Um, I can't afford to go to next game, so next games are in play. Uh it I could I can you know what I can see both both arguments, right? This was the first series with this core, where they were like really healthy . Every other year, there was like a yeah, but Garland was out, and you know, and I I also kind of feel like Mitchell was compromised against the Knicks, but I don't think that was going to make such a big difference. I could see them saying, let's make some tweaks and not make a huge move this offseason, but I could also see them saying we've had this core, it has been mildly successful and very successful in the regular season, but not successful in the postseason. Something needs to change. Like I I can see both sides of of this decision. House who says no to Mobley for the sixth pick ? Uh who has the sixth pick? Brooklyn. No . Cavs. Yeah, Cavs say no. You save 50 million bucks. You to bring in a guy making about nine. That's a different incentive. You saves you save back almost 40 million bucks and then all the luxury tax stuff too. The reason why it's reasonable is because if that team looks in the mirror and you know, drinks some actual sort of honest serum, some truth serum, are they better than the Celtics next year? Do they think they are? That's why I'd be blowing it up. I mean that would think that they're better than that. I would trade Mitchell if I were them, but I'd I just think they have to do something. I think they had their window and that this is it. Like the the East is gonna be better next year. I don't see how they're better next year. Pardon a year older. So um another loser, LeBron James. I feel like Cleveland was a like a fifth ring title chase team. I'll go there. You guys are close. I'll take the minimum. Everyone loves when somebody takes the minimum. When Carl Malone did that for the 03-04 Lakers, it was like, oh my God, this guy just wants to win, man. He'll do anything. Um, I don't think LeBron's fixing anything if he goes there. It's they weren't a LeBron James away from beating the beating the Knicks and then going into the next round against San Antonio OKC and winning. And I just think that option's out. Let's see it. You agree, Jacobs? I'm fascinated by what LeBron does this offseason because I can't see anything that works. Like literally, of all the teams. Like none of it really makes sense. And the problem is he is a valuable player, so she he should be compensated for his production. What 's the price spot for him? It's not a max price, but is it like twenty-five mil a year house? What is it? Thirty? Two for fifty . It's whatever the team he decides he wants to spend next year with can afford and and fit and have one more great player. I still love, I mean, honestly, I think LeBron is a winner by virtue of what happened with Cleveland. Cleveland's the loser, not LeBron. LeBron wins. Because LeBron doesn't have to go there. And he doesn't have to be coached by Kenny Atkinson. What the f I mean, what are we talking about? Um the the the the two options to me that are viable, my A number one, the one I root for the most is the one that you threw out there which is Kevin Durant and LeBron going to Golden State. Oh Durant too? Can we put Davis in the Durant spot? I have Davis in there now. You have Davis going to Golden State? Yeah. So it's A D, uh LeBron The Wiz get Butler and Golden State's twenty-seven first. You'll do you're doing that. Done. Yeah, you're locking. You're locking that thing. Done. Take that. And then they get they figure out how to get LeBron with the mid-level. They bring Davis. They still have the 11th pick. They'll get a good player because this draft's really good. And we get the expendables. I had a fake sign and trade. I don't know if this is possible with the Harden. Who knows what the Harden extension is, but could you do a three-way where Dur ant goes to the Lakers, LeBron goes to the Cavs, and Hardin goes back to Houston, and all the money just kind of works? And it's just kind of it just Durant's playing with Luca and Reeves. LeBron goes back to Cleveland, but is able to make like 35, 40 million a year. And then Pardon just goes to Houston and kind of gives them something they need, which is a guy who can create offense. House likes that one . It's kind of funny. It's kind of funky. It's a merry-go-round of old guys. The the problem is I think LeBron and JJ, uh, the only other like there's only a handful of coaches I can see LeBron tying his his wagon to. Yeah, but you can't they're not paying him more than I don't think 15 million a year. That's crazy. They gotta pay Reeves like 40. You still want to make the team better. You have a window with Luca now where you have to improve it. I I just don't I don't see them doing it. I think another loser is the Celtics who won a title in 2024 with a 27 year old star and a 26 year old star. And now have twice two years in a row lost their team you'd most want to be in the East title. They lose it last year to Indiana. That's like I'd rather be Indiana going forward with the Tatum injury. And then this year you'd be like, oh I,'d rather be the Knicks. They're gonna have like clearly a three-year run. And the Celtics now have to deal with this juggernaut Knicks team. Um Miami probably getting Giannis, Detroit probably getting somebody else and maybe they missed their window. It's depressing. I don't I don't need you guys to talk about the Celtics. I want to mention that. No, uh Bill, you you did you've not mentioned the Twitch streaming. I mean, we have to. I've never seen someone sort of at alone in their house talking to their computer jeopardize their future with their franchise. I've never seen anything like this. And like fighting with Stephen A. Like what I I don't understand what's happening. He's like proposing like a a a neutral site Stephen A deb ate. What is happening? By the way, I'd be excited for that. Yeah, I was thinking if there was a ringer staffer who started to do the Jalen Brown Twitch thing every night and was just kind of dancing with the line night after night. We probably would have had a phone call at this point, like, hey , just check it in. Yeah, you know, I don't know if this is a great idea. Another loser, Masayu Harry , who can we talk about he gave up Siaka, Manan and Obi , who are two key pieces of the last two Eastern Finals teams that we have, and he got quickly RJ Barrett and two firsts in the 20s. Is he the new Hey well he lost his job. Well he lost job after, but they like they win the title 'cause of the Kawhi trade and then Dumar's style, everything he does after that is kind of shaky. I feel like it was fair for us, you know, the number of years leading up to this most recently completed season to be extremely critical of Toronto and the moves we were making. We were befuddled by them, the the money they were spending on players. I mean, it's still, you know, Isaiah Quickly is this uh Isaiah. Uh quickly is Emmanuel. I know. Uh is is now like the poster child for how you don't do stuff in this this uh $30 million dollars six men, you don't want thirty million dollars centers. Um another loser is Adam Silver . Because the James Dowan finals feud is here. This is gonna be so fascinating to see how this works out. I don't think there's a lot of love lost. And uh I think usually when you have the the finals in a location, the owners are usually helpful with the league. Not sure that's happening this time. I have two more . Vivek, Prokur ov, Robert Sarber, and Glenn Taylor have on now passed James Dolan in the worst owners' rankings in the 21st century. I think Dolan's out of the Mount Rushmore now. I mean, he handed over this team. They made Eastern Finals last year. They made the finals this year. He's out. And I think it's Bivek, Prokurov, Sarber, Glenn Taylor. Does that sound like the right list, Jacob? Anyone else you'd throw in there ? Off top of your head. Prokarov Oh no, yeah, he was Yeah, we're gonna spend money. We're spending more money than any team ever than a year later. I don't want to spend money anymore. He said he would get married if they didn't actually Glenn Taylor might have been the worst one though because he he even sold this team for way less than what it was worth. Like he wasn't just terrible owner. He even fucked up the sale of his own franchise and then tried to to do a lawsuit over the guys that bought it a dead loser i'm i'm wondering is should prokaroth and jos h be lumped together because jos h basically tried to run back the Prokaroff playbook with Harden Kirk Kyrie. Josai just seems like he's loyal to a front office that's not very good for some reason. But Joe Sai at least made runs. Like the if Hardin and Kyrie don't get hurt that year, they probably win the title, right? All I'll say is Reinsdorf would like a word. He'd like to, you know, some consideration in this conversation. That's fair. Uh, pretty big market. The legacy kid owners , which we always have made fun of, being terrible. Legacy Kid owners won in 23, 24, and 26. Uh, Celtics win in 24. 23, the Cronkies, Josh was running the nuggets, and then 26 James Dolan. So there you go for that. All right. We're gonna take a break. We're gonna uh come back and I have some good mailbag stuff for you guys. This episode is brought to you by HubSpot. You know why elite point guards make everyone better? It isn't just the no-look dimes. It's because they know everything. Who's hot, who's tired, what the defense is doing, which teammate needs a basket. Most businesses don't have that. 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Coverage options are selected by the customer, availability and eligibility var y by state . All right, mailbag questions, you can send them to bspodcast33 at gmail.com. This is from Joe from Waterloo, Illinois. He said with the incredible playoff run of these Knicks, we need an updated key to the city rankings. This is for if you win the title, you just own the city and get the key. Uh and he said right now the rankings in his mind. Number one, Josh Allen. Nberum two, Jalen Bruns on. Number three, Austin Matthews. Hockey. Number four, Caleb Williams. And number five, Jared Guff . Who's missing for you, Jacobs, in that one? wanna put Geno Smith in there . What a phenomenal answer. Geno Smith from what team? What team is he on there? This is very funny. This is very funny. Go ahead. The Jets . Okay. Think about it. Think about it. House. Um, I had two guys. Uh I had Anthony Edwards because you know Minnesota deserves somebody and it's there's nobody on their football team that that you can point to. I mean if Kyler Murray turns out to be you know some incredible version, but I right. U So I I love Anthony Edwards and then I I feel like you know Joe Burrow could be in the conversation. Cincinnati, the football team has, you know, a long rec I tried to come up with somebody from Atlanta, but I don't I I don't think Atlanta gives enough of a shit about sports. Ironically, it'll be Anthony Edwards when he goes to Atlanta. Um I had Anthony Edwards as well. I had Joe Burroughs as well. I Joe Burrow. I had Devin Booker because the Suns, even though they've been relevant every decade, have never actually won the title. And then I just put Brown's QB TBD . If it ever happens for them, I I think that's top three. We just don't know who that is. But I I think right now I like that Josh Allen won Jalen Brunson too. I think that's right. Very good. If Jalen Brunson wins the title for the Knicks , it's an all-time you're a hero. It's a standing o when you walk into a room. It's basically what Ortiz is like in Boston. Where Ortiz, like even now, all these years later, just walks in, people start applauding. I I want to push back a little bit on Josh Allen. Um give me Caleb Williams . Okay. I think I guess because it's Chicago, they just live and die with the Bears. They've like never had a good quarterback somehow. They did win 40 years ago? Yeah, they did. And you know, and the Bills have a history, but I feel like just the big marketness of the city, and like you know, when the Cubs won, what a big deal it was. And you know, I've been to Buffalo Games, I've been to Buffalo a few times. It's a small town. You know what I mean? I just don't know it's gonna impact the world the same way that a a a Bears Super Bowl win on the back of a quarterback instead of a defense and a running back would be uh would be big. When Jacoby says the Bills have a history, that's like saying Lamar Odom has tried drugs a little a couple times. Like that's just the Bills have more than a history. The Bills are the fucking conjuring house. Um all right, next question's from Kevin. Jalen Brunson's success is often credited to his strong work ethic and mastery of fundamentals, similar to Jake Shuttlesworth, the father character in He Got Game trying to instill into his son Jesus at a young age. That would be Rick Brunson. Do you think that Rick Brunson is a real life Jake Shuttlesworth, Jake Shuttlesworth . Sans Manslaughter. So Jake Shuttleworth is it I thought it was Shuttlesworth. I thought it was Sands too, not Sands, but okay. Whatever. Or S sans.ans? Sans. Sans. Yeah. Yeah. Sans. Sans manslaughter. Gotcha. So do you think Jake, no manslaughter, good Rick Brunson thing? Probably he wouldn't love it, but um I do feel like that's one of the reasons Jalen Brunson is so tough though. You got the feeling his dad was just it's like a sports movie. It's like not as bad as Great Santini, but it's all based on that one video. It's that one video that we have of him dribbling up and they're filming it and he's like his dad is being such like a like a like a hardo. And you seem like little poor little Jalen Brunson is not having a good time in that video. Like he's he's not enjoying, you know, working out with his dad in that sunny day. That video to me, which it was not I didn't be honest with you. It's like me and Zoe with soccer, like some of the videos we have. It's Shuttlesworth. I knew I was right. He's Shuttlesworth. The remarkable thing to me with the Brunsons is Rick's role, which is enor mous in the on the on the bench and in the organization, because I think he's had a hand, a steering hand in all of the team building that's taken place over the last three years that put this team into the finals. And he definitely had a hand in convincing his son to take an undermarket extension um so that they could bring in this this extra talent. I mean I there there's there's it's a fascinating like documentary at some point after the r this run is over, maybe even after Brunson's career is over. Let's sit down and really talk to the Brunsons about what went down for the this time. Well you left out they hired Rick Brunson as assistant coach before the summer that they were trying to sign Jalen Brunson to make him leave Dallas, which was an old college trick that they would do where you would sign the dad on the college team as you're trying to recruit the kid. So that worked too. I mean, Wes and Leon played all the tricks with building this Nicks team. They were, they were working it. Like they get OG in anob , knowing that he's going to be a free agent, but also knowing that he's a CAA client that I have a relationship, that they could probably talk him into staying and this is a relationship's business, Chick-hop's. They remember they went to Jalen Brunson's playoff games too. They like sat there and just like staring at him while he was on the maps. It was very obviously that they were interested in that I'm terrified that someone will investigate the Brunson deal because it just really makes no sense on paper, unless, you know, perhaps you know, there's a there's a tree planting company somewhere. Yeah, right. Could be a tree planting company in New York. Mark Cuban Mark Cuban was really on a heater in the 2020s . He could have had Brunson for four for 55 and went low by somehow lost Brunson, just loses him, right? Then decides to sell the team. He sells right before all the franchise valuations go flying up, sells for way less, sells it to this ownership that then, oh , and by the way, hired Nico Harrison before he sold to the ownership. And then Nico Harrison trades their best player. And now he's like, I don't know, I can't believe you did that. It's like you've you're the reason they don't have Jaleb Brunson and Luka Dodgins. You're literally the reason. Doesn't get it. Well with the e extra uh irony of him thinking that he was going to have some continuing decision making role, some continuing continuing input role, which does never happened in sports history. Well, and not only that, but it's been reported that Naharrison was one of the people that immediately put took a giant knife and stuck it right in Cuban's back on that idea. Really crazy. Um Michael from Gower, Missou ri , wants to know if the Thunder, if they win back to back, should retire Kawaii's jersey, considering he's basically the reason this entire run is happening, because the Paul George trade. Are there any other examples of players that never played for a team but had such a massive success that they should have their jersey retired anyway. Um, first of all, it should be Kawhi and Paul George's jerseys together would be the move. I'm not against it . It's it's the most important moment in the history of the franchise that they did that trade. But I was thinking like a player who single-handedly caused a title for another team. And the only one I can really think of in the history of the NBA where you can literally say, like, thanks to that guy, we won the title, is Frank Selvy on the 1962 Los Angeles Lakers. Game seven, end of the game , has a nine-footer, and if he makes it, the Lakers win the title and he missed it. Baseline jumper. It's like a 12-footer. And if you and if he makes it, Celtics lose to the Lakers. We don't have Jerry West like, you know, as the the character in HBO series someday. There's been other moments where it was like, oh, if that hadn't happened, like Mainu fouling Dirk in two thousand six. And but Frank Selfie's the only one where you could say if he makes that shot, the title chang es. Um, but here's my question for you guys: could teams retire GMs , maybe not numbers, but the names of GM decisions from other teams that led to a bunch of titles for them. So I'm going to give you four. David Kahn, Minnesota , took Ricky Rubio and then Johnny Flynn over Steph Curry. And could Golden State like have a David Kahn ceremony? Thank ing him for what he did. Same thing for Stu Inman, the pro the Portland Trailblazers GM , who took Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan. Should probably be in the Rafters in Chicago. Um Bob Bass , Charlotte Hornets, GM, 199 6 . The Lakers are like, we'll trade you Vladi Debach for the 13th pick. He's like, that sounds great. Vlade Divac is really good. And trades them Kobe Bryant and they win five things. And then the last one, this is my favorite, Slick Leonard, the 1978 coach GM of the Indiana Pacers, has the number one pick in 1978. And it's the draft where you could pick Larry Bird and wait a year for him to come into the league. He's playing for Indiana State. Indiana is in such bad shape as a franchise. They had a telethon that year to try to save the team They don't take Larry Bird. They trade back from one to three with Portland for Johnny Davis in the third pick. And then their fans think, oh, they traded back because we're taking Byrd. Nope. They took Rick Robey. And then the Celtics got him six. So I you could argue Slick Leonard, uh, the GM, but Jacobes, do you like the idea of retiring GM, helpful GM ? I don't I don't like the idea of the opposing GM . No, no, because it it's in the raptors forever and you're gonna have to like tell your Greg . It's like what is that doing there? Like, who was slick leonard? You have to explain. I like the idea of just like having a night. Like one of my favorite moments in sports history was when um the the Red Sox fans in Fenway were cheered Mariano Rivera 2005. You know what I mean? It was like one of my favorite moments in sports history because he was so cool about it. He's already a champion in a Hall of Famer and a legend. He had a sense of humor about it. I think it should be a night like that. There's been like one night where it's it's it's David Kahn night for in Golden State. And he comes out there at halftime they do a little ceremony and they they cheer him. They interview him. They give him a few. David, you took two point guards in 09. And somehow neither of them were Steph Curry. Let's walk through it. What a great moment. It feels like a celebration instead of like a permanent fixture inside the arena that's there forever. Jack from Atlanta writes , I'm consistently amazed by Adam Silver's inability to have a feel for public perception of the league. I don't think that's fair, but the playoffs are the most important time in the season. The constant talk among my friends is flapping. Why can't we shame these players for being uncool? Why can't they come up with something to stop this? This has been a topic on a lot of shows. I've been thinking about this a lot. And it's weird. It wasn't an SGA moment. It was that moment when uh maybe it was AJ Mitchell, whoever was somebody was setting a screen and they went flying and they called an offensive foul and the guy setting the screen with the Spurs. Oh, it's yeah, and then they they was yeah, Jaywell. And then they did the wide shot, the overhead shot of him bumping into the guy and then flailing. And I wonder like when they added the flagrant fan uh flagrant foul point system , which most famously came back to haunt Draymond in 2016 when he had to miss game five because he had too many points. Would you guys be cool if they had like a flopping point penalty system where the league just announced the next day. We find SGA one flopping point for third quarter or whatever. And it's just like you get to 15 points, you miss the next game. Like would people sign up for that? Because I actually think I would. Yeah, Jacoby's shaking his head no. I I love it. I absolutely love it. Okay. And because in the same way that they upgraded the Plumley foul, there's some, you know, smart people review the tape. In the moment you can't, because they do have like a a flopping foul, but real time the refs, I mean if you can't ask the refs to evaluate that in real time. So I think they they could do some sort of like even if it's like the two minute report, like we reviewed the tape and and you know there's seven flop foul, I mean flops, even just like public shaming. But one thing I love about what's happening is as a Knicks fan, I've already grown a really strong hatred of both the Spurs and the Thunder. So whoever makes it through, I already have a nice foundation of I fucking can't stand you guys that's just ready to to boil over. Well, ironically Brunson does it too. He's but more on deep Brunson does it on picks and defense really more than offense. SGA does it more than offense. Why are you making a face, guys? Brunson does do it. I'm a smidge confused. Confused with what? I I mean I think that uh Brunson plays pretty physical. And I I mean I the the stuff on defense and and coming off the screens, I'm sure we can find those examples. He's a flopper. He does . I watch I watch all the games. Yeah, he tries to sell offensive foul picks is his big his big thing. I have a Brunson flopping theory. One of my theories is that he has those little braids, those little twists, because when he jerks his head back, it looks more violent because his hair flies. It's more visual tool. I like that. I like this. How so would you sign up for the 15-point flop system? Just get a point. anything that you know communicates to the NBA viewing public us that the league is taking this seriously is going to be a a good thing. I I think it would be fine if they just called two flops every first quarter. You know, that they they had the opportunity during this um playoff run, this stretch where it's really become prominent. And and we know that the league has the capacity for changing how it it calls games over the course of regular season into playoffs. They allow more more physical play and even the rotating referee crews, um, you could just call flops. Like a w I I can't think of a game where a flop was called uh in in in the case. They don't call that they don't call offensive three seconds when the guy has the ball for too long when he's posting up. They call that like three times a year. Remember they added that rule? You can't just slowly post up for 10 seconds and they were like, you can't do it. It's got to be four. Shen Goon's like the only one that gets called for that. I would love a flopping thing. I think it's a good idea. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. For small business, every hire matters, but the time and resources required to hire right are limited. Luckily, LinkedIn Hiring Pro is built for that reality. It's your hiring partner designed to help you hire with confidence by surfacing only the right candidates without turning hiring into another full-time job. Hiring Pro streamlines the entire process from drafting your job to short listing candidates and conducting AI powered screening interviews. 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Visit firestonauto.com to find a location near you a trusted name since 1926 . Chan from New York wants to know if Spurs Thunder is supposed to be the main event, would the Knicks be the money in the bank champs waiting in the w ings to take advantage of a compromised opponent. This is great. Like a great wrestling analogy. Just let these two teams beat each other up and the Knicks are waiting. Like the series ends and they're coming in right away. Um we I always get this email about whether money in the bank would work in the NBA, and the answer is obviously no. But it would be amazing. Like you finish a series and then all of a sudden the next team just comes in. Oh, they're cashing it, they're cashing the suitcase. All right, House, you're gonna love this one. This is from Joe from far northern Chicago suburbs. Okay. Conspiracy Bill. He starts it . Scott Foster's public-facing MBA referee profile page, and this is true because I looked it up, lists Shameless and Ozark as his two favorite television shows. I haven't watched Shameless, but Ozark is definitely about illegal money laundering schemes and organized crime. Wikipedia tells me shameless is about people running scams and committing crimes to get money. How is this possible that he put these two as his two favorite TV shows? It's from Joe. Well, it's he's living that feels like a bit at that point. It could be. But I all and and I hope that's like he should have added your friends and neighbors as his third one. I love that show too. People stealing for their neighbors. Yeah. Jacoby's like afraid to talk. Oh no, I love your friends and neighbors. I'm so in on your friends and neighbors. That Birch Billionaire character, I'm absolutely in love with her. I can't wait for her to come back and ru and ruin our guys' life. I'm in on friends and neighbors so hard. Um on that same page it says Scott Foster's favorite movie is Braveheart . No one's favorite movie is Braveheart. Braveheart. Scott Foster's is. No one. He's lying. Liam Manley writes in, I sent this one to you guys. Uh Caruso's twenty-two-point game five has to be top three l uh role player ever, Hory and Iguadala . So he he points out I created the forty-two club, which was points, rebounds, and assists in the playoffs. And if they add up to 42 or above, odds are you're a pretty special player. And it's been pretty reliable over the years, especially because I I did 42 exactly because it was the best way to leave out Carl Malone. Um, he's saying, could we have a 21 club? If you average over 21 points, rebounds, and assists multiple seasons, you're not a role player. And if you're under it, you are. I'm tweaking this to playoffs and I like the under 21. I wonder if we could go a little lower. I sent you guys a bunch of stats. Um I have some role player qu irl role player questions for you though. Can you be one of the best four guys on your team and be a role player, Jacoby ? I'd say um you can't be one of the four most offensively productive. Best is a weird word to use because sometimes role players are the best because they're great defenders and great scene screen setters and you know assist guys. But I did consider this, and I don't like the minutes restriction stuff because sometimes role players are like starters that play the entire time. You know what I mean? Bruce Bowen was in oh five to oh seven, thirty-six minutes a game, but was clearly a role player. Yes, but he averaged like six and a half points. Yeah, six points, three rebounds, one assist. Yeah, yeah. Two eye gouges and one step on the foot. One kick in the balls, two hits in the face. Yes. I also don't I don't consider Igadala a role player. Like he was a role player for So the other case for Igodala not being a role player is he was the fourth best guy on that team. And the finals have been. Curry, Clay, Draymond, Igoudal is the fourth best guy at worst. So can you be the role player if you're the fourth best guy in a team? That's a problem with the Caruso role player candidacy because you could argue he's one of the four best guys in this team. Um well you can also argue that he's been forced to be one of the four best guys in the team due to injury. Right. And then Michael Cooper was the other one who might have been the fourth best Laker during his whole run, but was a role player. What do you think, House? The definitionals part of this is where the true intrigue comes in to me because it it's hard like uh how many rings if we're doing an all-time list do you have to have be on a team I feel like you need two to be like the level one. Yeah. That means Trevor Areza is off the list. That means Jason Terry is off the list. That means Kendrick Perkins is off the list. Bill Walker. He only had the one. Yeah, there's and then it's like, is there a quality threshold? Jacoby just mentioned Negudawa. Like Manu Manu. No. Both. I was saying Manu Manu. Manu. Both was too good. He can't be a role player. He was like he's I think one of the best hundred basketball players of all time. But if you look at his numbers and how he was used, you could say, well, he's six man, he's a role player, but I just don't think he was. And then do you need the two titles? So that that moves us more I to to me, like the best way to figure this out is to look at guys that we know were role players, which is clearly Robert Hory and the Lakers and the Spurs . Interestingly, Rockets Robert Hory, not a role player, but arguably the third best guy in that team. Sure. Um I like that. Myro Ellie, 22 minutes a game, seven points, three rebounds, and two assists in their two title seasons. That to me is a role player. Um Caruso, I think, makes it. It's basically ten and three . The last couple years playing whatever. Um Philly Bobby Jones is a good one. James Posey in 06 and 08 is another good one. We lose Boris Dio . Steve Kerr, 19 minutes a game, 6-1 and 2. Um, and then Fisher is a great one. Thirty minutes a game, nine, two, and three. And I guess we have to put Bruce Bowen in. So would you say instead of the forty-two club, maybe it's like the seventeen club? It's gotta be like seventeen and under for points, rebounds, and assists. You're an official role player in that can in that rate what yeah. Let me let me ask about Ron Harper . Another good one. Ended up with multiple. Bulls Ron Harper. Yeah. And and Lakers Ron Harper. I mean, it's kind of important, true. To both. He ended up with 153 playoff games, five rings, and he's just under 21. He's 11.6 points, four point six rebounds, three point nine assists. And was that there in the crush time a bunch? Uh I got I've got one for you. Yeah. JaVel McGee . Did he have how many titles though? Multiple titles. Oh riors. Nuggets. Oh, he didn't. That's right. He had the Warriors one. Yeah. And he did kind of play for them. Yeah, he played a role. Like to me, a role player, like you kind of do one thing. You know what I mean? Like Ron Harper might be like too good like a at everything kind of. Yeah, maybe. You know, like that's why like Caruso, it's like I'm a defender and if you leave me open, I'll hit a three and I'll do some energy stuff and transition. Like the I like a like a guy like McGee because he's like he's our big backup that comes in and blocks shots and he's kind of weird and he rebounds and you know it's like like Tristan Thompson on the calves. It's like I have a role. Like no one's gonna ever give me the ball shot clock. Yeah. Yeah. Like that that's to me is like a role player. It's kind of like you know it when you see it. He's a role . Important spin-off question. This question. Jacobs, when we played Pick-Up Hoops together for two years at USC, was I a role player? Yes. I was old. Yes. Um, your impact was more just like uh you're kind of like a coach on the floor. And uh remember that guy in the Lakers you were talking about who hit the baseline shot that I had no idea who you were talking about? Selvi, Fred Selvi, whatever that guy's name is. Frank Selvie. I was like, I hope he doesn't ask me a question about Frank Selby. Like I don't know what to do who's gonna. 18. His spot. Seventeen. Seventeen. You are my boss. You are my boss. So yeah. Oh. Seventeen. Sixteen. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. What about breaking up the two for one two on ones? So I mean that's I mean you're you're you're great at that. But if it if I was the number one option, the number two option, we were losing. Yeah, we were losing if we I needed to be the number four option, which may be a role player. And then we're winning and we're staying on the court for a while. John Kaleen sent a Sam Perkins question on role players asking if Jerry if Sam Perkins was the Jerry West of role players. Um, Mavericks, late 80s, Lakers, early 90s, Superson ics Pacers. Sam Perkins was a role player on the 96 Sonics and O -O Pacers that made finals . He was uh he was kind of better than a role player in the 93 Sonics and then the 91 Lakers. He was probably the third best player. But then also in Dallas, he played in five conference finals for three different teams, four different teams, and three finals. Really interesting. Sam Perkins career sent me on a deep dive. 167 playoff games for Sam, 35th all time, and kind of had all the phases of Sam and then finally crested with the Indiana. It looked like he had just smoked a bowl. He weighed like 300 pounds, but could still hit a three at any time. But really fun run for him. Hadn't thought about Sam Perkins in a while, guys I feel the same way. Uh, and and I always like, you know, my mind's eye is like, oh, he he's he's talented. I I I expect, you know, him to make the right play. His hoops IQ was always in the right place, but maybe I'm only thinking about the end of his career. Well based on the Lakers . So one of the best game ones ever, which I mentioned to you, I think I mentioned to you the last time we did this, was that Bulls Lakers game one, MJ misses the game winner and bounces around and goes out, but Perkins made the three. That was the game winning play. They set up for him. Magic found him. Sam Perkins, really good. Uh all right. Really, really important question from Corey from St. George, Utah. In your book of basketball, you debated a team of five of the same player versus any other duplicated five . Would a team of five Victor Wembanyamas be the ultimate team that would beat any other version of five other guys. Meaning, could five Wembies beat five LeBrons? Could five Wembies beat five Iversons, etc. etc. Jacoby shaking his head. Absolutely not. No way way. the same Yeah. I would say I think that's almost one of the the of all like the superstars. He's probably one of the worst to clone four more times and put out there because he is so tall. Like how who's bringing up the ball? Wemby. Wemby Yeah, that's the problem. Wemby number five is bringing up the ball. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Jacos, I actually think I completely disagree with you. I think five wembies kills everyone. You play zone with the five Wembies. How do you score ? What are you talking about? How am I getting a shot off against five wimbies ? All they're doing is playing zone. How am I shooting anything? All right, I'm a counter. I'm five Michael Jordans. I agree with this. That's the answer. You guys would take five Michael Jordans over five Wemby's? Definitely. Bill, Bill, Bill, I'm gonna allow you to retract this statement. I'm not retracting it. Wemby's seven. Five Michael Jordans? What are you talking about? Against five Wemby's? What are you even talking about? Peak Michael Jordan? Michael Air Jeffrey Jordan ? I the one we have to break this out as a social code because I can't believe it's I can't believe this. I can't believe this. But the the one Wemby couldn't post up in game five against Oklahoma City. Yeah, he gets tired in the second quarter. So they're saying one of the five mega Jordans is pushing back. But then we'll just bring in another Wemby to get closer. It's a feature. Five Jordans, you need somebody who's good at everything. Jack of all trades. Wemby's a very unique player because of his height. He needs guards and people to set him up. He doesn't like honestly, he doesn't even create his own shots. The best Wemby is rolling to the basket and then Steph Castle just bl indly throws the ball up in the air and either tips it in or tips it off to the off the rim to himself and dunks it. See, I think five LeBrons would have a better chance than five Jordan's. Jordan was six six. It's a good argument. Now we're having like three smaller instead of the LeBron Jordan debate, we're having the LeBron and his clothes. Five Lembays versus five Webb's five LeBrons. Five James Hardens would have some trouble, I feel like . Because that's the other thing. Five curri es could just like bomb threes and try to beat them with math, right? That was like we don't care how tall you are, we're just gonna shoot 30 footers. I love it Matt from Toronto is exhausted by the term gener ational . Supposed to mean once in a generation. Now he's hearing it's a generational draft, multiple generational prospects. He said in his eyes, only two generational players are in the NBA right now. LeBron, whose generation is ending, and Wemby's, whose generation is starting, wants to retire the word generational for everyone else. Let's not use it anymore. I would throw in jok er as a generational offensive player, which I think he is. So I would say we have three people that the generational word can get thrown around. Other than that, I think he's right. I even think I look I'm gonna look at the mirror. It's like didn't he leave Curry out? Generational oh you're right. He's still in the league. Steph Curry, generational shooter. So there's four . Not Durant . Generational scorer? He's gonna go down as the most prolific scorer. He's a generational scoring forward. Generational tweeter. And Durant's kind of the line for this. Generational scoring forward, but what does that even mean? So currently intergenerational . You don't. Because I just don't know when it starts or when it ends. It's kind of like when you go to a store and they have the sign on the door that says like be back in five minutes. I'm like, when did you when did the five minutes start and when is it gonna end and how do you know when i'm gonna see the sign so it's like the the generations sort of like bleed into each other is what i feel like like there's no defined beginning and end of the generation sort of just like a sliding 20 years through time would you say house is a generational lead er? Yes. I agree with this. I would say all time. I think he is too, because any time over the course of my life when people who didn't know House ate with House, there's always that point in the meal when they just become impressed that a house is still eating and that he's picking stuff off other plates and it's been going on forever, I think, which makes him generational. And he doesn't draw a lot of attention to it either. He's not performative with his overeating. You know what I mean? He's not talking about it. It's just sort of just slowly like, oh hey, no, it's like the the guy will come by and be like, oh, you're done with the egg rolls? Oh no, no, no, no, I'll take that off. Do you think I'm a generational playing blackjack at four thirty in the morning guy or no? No. Okay. Um House, this question's for you from Cody K. He's a longtime Wizards fan. Oh, great. He's lived through the draft picks of people like Jan Vesley.. I'm familiar He's lived through overpoor overpaying auto porter. Did that lived through playing and coaching of Randy Whitman? That happened. Losing on purpose. Um he's excited about the draft. And he's seen recent rumors of the Wizards getting in on the Greek freak sweepstakes. Am I losing my mind thinking a lineup of Trey, Trey Johnson , Bilal, A D, and the Freak could work. He didn't even mention your number one pick in the draft. Um plus we have dullest to Grease Flights, he wants to point out too. How still you still haven't talked yourself into this. It's outrageous. It's preposterous. I understand the season that we're in now with the NBA where we have to, you know, go into this this uh drama queen mode because there isn't anything to talk about fr from the games, but um there is no scenario under which it makes a lick of sense for Giannis to come to Washington. None whatsoever. Jacoby, where do you want Giannis to go? Yeah. What's your team? What's the most fun for content Giannis team. I expendables is off the table. Yeah. Uh most fun for content is going to be the Nets. Just like a terrible Nets team and they win like 30 games. And he's just pissed. But he's in New York and there's like rumors about him being out in clubs and stuff. It's just like and he's just getting hammered it's just like god i was actually better off in milwaukee than i am here in in brooklyn that would be for content would be the funniest just because of the spotlight that the new york market puts on you and like you think it's bad with your roster in milwaukee, like welcome welcome to clowny and Joman . I w I think Miami would be the most fun . Heat culture versus you have you also have to sign my two brothers if I'm coming. We do that whole thing. That could be fun. Um, Jason from New Jersey has a Greek Freak thing. He says with Wembi doing what he's doing, do we have to rescind Giannis's nickname Greek Freak or the Freak. Next to Wemby, he doesn't seem to be freakish. Not saying we need to call Wemby the French freak . But I don't think we can have other players called freak if Wemby's in the league. I disagree. I'm fine with Giannis is the freak. We've called him the freak. Wemby's the alien or the UFO. Yeah, he's alien. He's not a freak. He's more than a freak. Yeah, because he hasn't earned anything yet. Uh Giannis earned the freak. Yeah, he didn't arrive, but we looked at him and started calling him the fre ak just because of how he looked. It's how because of how he played, his force of will, his dominant style. That's what really he filled out the freak. Right now, it is fine to call Wemby uh an alien or, you know, from a from a different whatever. Um, 'cause that that's all that we can ascribe to him. There is nothing uh it's a great run. I'm I'm thrilled for for the Spurs and let's see how this plays out before we start giving him any nicknames other than recognizing that he's a giant person. Would five Giannis' beat five Wemby's? Yes. Oh, phenomenal. I agree with Jacob's strong Giannis. I don't think five Wemby's is a strong team. I really don't think five Wemby's is a strong team. I could beat Five Wemby's. I love this. I can't wait to see what people think of this. I can't believe you're good I w I want Freak to get to a Western conference team and dunk on Wemby, you know, repeatedly. I think He's mad he took his corner. Yeah, exactly right. Not not the free corner, but you know, who's the biggest, baddest, big guy? It's like what's happening in Euphoria right now is Zendaya and Sydney Sweeney . No. Well, I haven't watched one episode, but I already know which way I was. Two major stars. Well, one of them, one of them has been naked the whole season. So I don't know how you've missed it. And I know which one that is. So Marcus, Marcus is a huge Suns fan, and he's still having trouble, especially with the recent Jalen Brunson thing. Um The Suns had three of the first 31 picks . They took with the first pick, DeAndre Ayton over Luka Doncic. With the 10th pick, 10th pick, they took Mikhail Bridges over Shea Gilgis Alexander. And with the 31st pick, they took Elia K obo over Jalen Brunson . I did not realize this. Ilya Kobo. Ilya Kobo. Not familiar with him. So they passed up Luka Doncic, SGA, and And they all got taken either the next pick or two picks later. Pretty interesting. How's that like broke out of the thing? I'm trying to think who the GM was for that. Because that's some that's the kind of stuff the Sixers have been doing for a decade now, which I've really enjoyed. Kevin from Malden, um, diehard Celtic fan, along with all his buddies, and said if it's a next Thunder series, who do we root for? We're very split. Um , none of us like New York teams, none of us want to root for the Knicks. That's how fucking annoying the Thunder are to watch, Kevin from Alden writes. You have a bunch of Boston guys rolling with the Knicks over the floppers. Jesus Christ, I hope Wemby and the Spurs pill pull it off. Wow. I kind of feel the same way. I'm probably I'd probably uh the basketball fan in me would probably root for the Knicks storyline, even though it's a New York team and New York will be insufferable for years after. You can hate the Knicks, but it's hard to hate these Knicks. It really is. Even if you're from Boston. Like I get it, you hate the uniform, but like the players and the vi bes like and they're gonna be underdogs to the floppers I think you have to go next even if you're in boston what do you think has it's a great great point i agree with you on this yeah okay um this is a good one . Maybe we end on this . Speaking of flopping from Liam from Minneapolis, he recently watched the 1997 movie Double Team starring Dennis Rodman and Jean-Claude Van Damme . And was thinking what current NBA player action star duo should we get to remake this? And was wondering if it should be Anthony Edwards and Jason Statham. Oh my God. Um I had an idea they remake double team as double flop with SGA and Statham. That's phenomenal. I made this on CGI. Yeah, look at you. I put in make a I make a make a double flap movie poster for me and they did it. Double flap. It can't be Satham is is is too legit. You need a a uh worse action hero. You need somebody if SJ was an action movie person, his move would be he's in fight scenes and he would be flapping and the t the people would be just completely confused. Disarmed. He would dive into them with like an elbow thing and go flying and they'd be like, What the fuck did that and then Statham would just come in and punch him in the face. That would be the move . You don't agree with that? I was so scared to Google double team movie Dennis Rodman because I just sat night. I'm sure there were some double teams filmed during this uh film . You guys you guys got those two guys together. Yeah, I felt like we should just be careful. We I I felt like treading carefully here was the right move. You guys got really scared there for a second. Well, I mean the action hero bit. That's all I have for you. Statham. Statham might be too big. So the biggest thing we argued about was five Wemby's versus five Michael Jordans. One of your worst takes. One of your worst takes, honestly. I'll be interested to see what America thinks. I have a zone defense. You five seven foot six guys . It's Michael Jordan versus 22-year-old French guy who shot four for 15 because he couldn't get in the lane against one shot in the first defense. If I was actually picking this in my life depending on it, I'm picking five Michael Jordans against everybody. I just have that would have the most confidence. I'm picking five Isaiah Hartensteins over five Wembby's. Five Isaiah Hartensteins over five Wembies. That's a good matchup. Uh before we go, House, who do you want with the number one pick? AJ. It hasn't changed. Okay. It's AJ. AJ all day. I love that guy. The whole long story that the Utah feature writer did about what's the deal with Darren Peterson's cramping situation. Did you read that? Did not. Don't care. You should read it because it will make you maybe not want to take him as much and move maybe more toward AJ . I already who? I already said AJ. I won AJ. You know, he reclassified as an Adrian. He reclassified as an eighth grader house. Did eighth grade twice. He's a little older than you think. AJ. Don't care. I watched him play basketball. He's fucking awesome. He is really good. I hope you take AJ. Me too. Who do you want them to take, Jacobs? AJ . Or Caleb. I'm staying away from Peterson. If if I'm like the number four pick, who's at the Jazz and don't have top top man.. The bulls Oh, the bulls, yeah. I'd be terrified if Peterson drops me. I kind of your hands are tied, you have to take him. Wow. I'd be terrified to draft Peterson. I really would. I'd be terrified. I watched some of those games. It was just like weird. He'd have 22 in the first half, and just be like, Yeah, I'm out. I'm done. He's one of the all-time terrified to take him, terrified not to take them guys that we've had in the draft. Either way, either way, you're just scared for the result. You should get Dinomic from Dubuque to ask that question in the next mailbag. Dominic from Dubuque, who's that? I don't know. I just I just came up with that. Feels like a guy that might have a question about the all time list for for guys you're damned if you do damned if you don't draft draft selection hopefully dominic if there's a Dominic in Dubuque hopefully he'll he'll run in. All right guys it was great to see both of you. Jacobs will we'll watch and listen to you on the mismatch. And food news, Julia Lippman. House, fairway rolling, US Open coming up. Yeah. We got the memorial. We're in Jack's place next week. That's a that's gonna be exciting. Bring our game as well. Are you gonna bet on World Cup or no ? Uh yeah, I've already bet on Norway over Iran. That was one. I'm just listening whatever Anthony Debundo tells me to do. So I I'll be betting I'm almost definitely betting against the U.S. when they play a good team . Um, but I'm just listening to the bundo. Definitely betting on the World Cup. Already defends Norway over I think. Well Debund Debundo, I think, might have had an aneurysm today because Sinner lost in the French Open. He was like a minus twel ve1 t2hous,000 favorite or something. And you got heat stroke and ended up losing. You know, French Open's wide open. Anyway. All right, guys. Good to see you . All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Jacobian House. Thanks to Bahoney. Thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as well. Don't forget to watch 2001 a space odyssey before the end of the weekend because that's going to be the next rewatchables. Enjoy the weekend. I will see you next time here on the Bill Simmons podcast.