Kawhi Leonard and the Toronto Trade

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See payPal d. com slash rewards terms, credit card points subject to issuers Terms and conditions Bill Simmons podcast live on Netflix, a rare morning podcast. Kurt Goldspey and Chris Ryan are here. wanted to mention we put up the last episode of From hell on the reatchables. we did Pacific heights m and I thought we had escaped from hell last month, but apparently we did it because I have a story for you guys. I'm just going can you clear out for me Yeah Soll maybe just play some play some bass as I talk to the audience. So I didn't have a reaction pod to this Jaylen Brown trade yesterday because I was getting a colonoscopy And It was supposed to be last week and I screwed up the prep And time they had was july first at three PM Pacific time And if I didn't take that time, I would have gone on july fifteenth. So I'm like, all right, you know what? L I can do a Thursday pod I'm going to get knocked out. So we're I'm watching the World Cup game And then go in, hadad a very similar experience to UCR where the guy said, B is I'm about to get knocked out. He's like, Wh do you think LeBron's going L baby Denver and then I'm out Wake up and all I want to know is what happened with the World Cup game. And the guy' like, o, they just had penalty, there's a penalty kick and actually saw the penalty kick and whatever Come out My wife waayited in and picked me up And she goes, they traded Jaylen Brown. I'm like, I had just woken up from anesthesia. and I'm not as you guys know, not really coherent. And I'm like, Where did you go? She's like to Philly for Paul George in two first round picks And I'm like, I think I'm dead. I I died. The N station killed me and now I'm a dead person. And I'm like And I'm just trying to process it and it's, you know, it's like I have a head injury and I'm like Is there more are there more first Ompics? Did they get the clippers first? And she's like Zoe's really upset. So now my daughter who likes Shayla Brown and And I'm like, all right, can you read me what the trade is? And she reads me the trade And then I stumble out of this place So when this trade happened at three hundred twenty Pacific time I had a camera in my ass and I had Paul George being rammed up my ass. And it was happening at the same time. And that's how I'm going to remember july first, twenty twenty six So we're driving home and I'm like I'm like, shouldhould I do an emergency pod? And my wife's like, No. You're like barely coherent. You probably start giving me your social security number. I would just when I like, A So anyway, that's my story of finding out the trades. S our story was a little more pleasant than mine because he had just finished they talked the Thrones pod Yeah Van and Joy. You tell the story. No, I was I had just finished recording with Joe and Mal and Van and Joy burst into the room. And I was like felt like LeBron, but In't I couldn't tell and obviously after a lot of guessing You did not guess Jaylen Brown. I did not gu because I exxpect us to go back to this well after Warford. I thought it was kind of Amera, but I guess I should have Big time Browns getting treated between Boston and Philadelphia. Yeah, we pass we pass back and forth twenty nine year old Browns. and Yeah. I mean, it was it was it was very in some ways, I feel like I'm still living in that moment because I I I'm processing it. It was also been like ' you were under general anesthusia for a lot of it, one of the most intense sports days of my life Because USA is coming up. Yeah, you realize after if you do fourteen hours of watching sports and getting the j a social media drip about it. L your brain is falling out of your ears by the end of the day. So I did England It did most of Ben Belgium Senegal The incredible work that all of our colleagues did talking about making the Lakers white again And then USA And Jalen Brown hit in there. It's like I didn't I could bare like my brain was scrbbled eggs at a certain point I I spent yesterday morning. I was so delighted by how bad the Lakers moves were. I was just torturing all the Laker fans of my life. I did not think the Celtics were going to trade Jayelen Brown. a bab. I thought they I thought they had canvased the league not like what they saw and they're like, you know what? let's just walk in a room and we'll figure this out. There's not a trade for this and we can talk for about a variety of reasons why there might not have been a trade for Jayen Brown. But I was having such a great day. I was going to get this colonoscopy done. I was going to watch the team USA under anesthesia And u and it was just It's going to keep rolling. and I feel like I used up a lot of karma points with all the taunting texts I did to all my Laker fan friends yesterday. because I thought what they did was hilarious. We'll talk about it way later. When did you find out about this Jalen Brown trade car Oh, I have a boring story. I was sitting in a chair getting ready for soccer and a typical Sams notification washed across my screen. And I did the thing where I was like, is this the real shams? This is this doesn't make sense. So I like had to verify. I didn't want to be Bricked The most shocking part for me, Bill Simmons is the fact that the Boston Celtics traded one of their best players to the Philadelphia seventy sixers. Like the historical part of that as as a kid who grew up in Pennsylvania watching Dr. Jay and Barcleay and Moses Malone go against your favorite team of your childhood This is one of the great rivalries in the NBA And I was just shocked to see a player of his caliber get traded from from Boston. to Philly. And as I sat there, I was like, this is insane Um just because of the two franchises involved. And then the second reaction, of course, is like They didn't even get the best pick that Philly had They they got older and not younger somehow and then you're just I'm trying to But it was it was I had of the three of us, I admittedly had the most generic experience finding out He's being shy, Bill 'cause right after that, he went and got his own colonoscopy. He just didn It was just in a bar in Maine, but he's still got home He got a homemaade one back outyle. The Pilly thing, I think it's the greatest robbery in the history of the league. People would point to Celt the Gis, but you're just talking about The finals where the Celtics just beat the Lakers every year and then you know, then they didn't play for a while. then they played again in the eighties a couple of times. they play in the two thousands a couple times. That's. they haven't been in a series together in sixteen years. Boston and Philly Every decade have battled in some sort of way. they've had some sort of playoff series. when we did Celtic City which maybe we have to do a tenth episode now called Celtic City. The team is falling apart We did a whole episode built around the eighties Celtics Philly dor. J versus Bird, all that stuff back and forth. I can't even remember that many times CR when when they've even made trades Like I remember we got Dana Beris Fr Philly as a free agent, but for the most part, like This is certainly the biggest transaction ever between the two franchises. I know that I mean like there's obviously the Horford signing, but Yeah that's another This is the last time I remember anything like this was like getting Jim O'Brien to coach. You know It's seriously like you have to go back to like these weird theseese weird moments in history because for the most part, the two cities and the two teams pretty much are like This is shut off. It was funny, you, like Other friends like because of the World Cup, I've been in touch with a bunch of of my buddies in England and they're like, canan you explain this to me in like Pmier League term? and I was like, this would basically be like Liverpool signing Marcus Rashford if he was coming off of a career year It's really the It's really, really complicated. And for the Sixers, U you know, they've been star shopping since the Jimmy Butler deals, since they decided to break away from like the draft and develop model to like olate some of those prospects and get get a star for imped. Butler Hford, Harden, what have you. then Paul George. Well, this is and and Paul George But this is the first time they've done it. and I think that the star that the Sixers were trying to complent wasn't Ib, it was Maxi Like I don't think this is a trade for andbid. I think this is a trade for the younger Cps. And you know, I don't even think that Jalen Brown and Joelen Bed pair that well together. I'm excited to be proven wrong but like They both like mid ranged, they both like having the ball in their hands and kind of surveying the court, you know, it's going to be really interesting to see how it works out in a basketball way. But This is this is a different kind of trade than the Sixers have made over the last couple of years. I don't think it's just for Mbade's purposes He pairs better with the speed of Max and VJ The and bead thing will be weird. All right, you got toa clear out again because I'm going to walk you through my thoughts as this happen Um First of all How many hours has this been? it's been I don't know, seventeen. This is The most unpopular trade with Boston fans since Mooky Bets I still think Mookkey Bets's Trump So hold on one second. O way more. God Uh Okay. Oh no. Go ahead, CR Why? You were say Mookie bets? I that's lastcess. A more indefensible trade because there was no reason to do it. They just didn't want to pay him and then they gave him away for ten cents on the dollar. This We could talk about some of the defenses I've heard. Everybody in my life Not only was there no warning whatsoever, not only was Jalen the centerpiece of a Yonest trade that seemed like it was going to happen A week ago on Monday. This was I think the first Boston trade ever that came out of nowhere, but then had everybody going Wait, that's the trade. What else is in it? Is there a part two and they're just There just wasn't. So, you know You start thinking, how does Jalen go for half as much as Mid third is Aspiration Sandal Kawai Right? Your head goes there Please collaborated Qu hasa won a playoff series in five years Kuwiet with the Ciooppers won two playoffs series in seven years and missed more games than just about anybody other than MB the last six, right? The last time everyone was talking about, o, Kauwai. now Toronto, this is the piece that can push them Kai lost the fucking first playing game last year to the Wriors a game I went to. This is like the twenty eighteen Kawai. I don I just don't think is there anymoreere. anyyway So he goes for half as much as him He goes for less than Desmond Bane He goes for lesson Jaon Jackson He goes for less than Kevin Durant did last year when Phoenix needed to trade him. they got the tenth pick and two movable contracts. Just note that his voice broke on Durant there. just if we're keeping a score at home. He went for way less than Yianis and then During the same day went for less than Kessler, five d yearing for me Heeep five thousand minutes last year. But for Leson Kessler. All right, so we have that. We have I had Michael Rubin had his white party yesterday in the Hamptons. I know you werere invited CR you to the RSVP No. I think it was at Lakerss training camp, actually. That was the other way party Apparently one of the Philly owners was there and I'm not going to say who' going to take the shit off. Yeah, takeake that Red sock head up. So one of the Philly owners was there and people were like, what's up with this Jwin trade and he was just like, we couldn't believe it either by basically saying We can't believe we were able to get Jaylen Brown for what we gave up I'll start here Um, just on the trade itself, which is twenty twenty first that seems pretty good. It's at least a Cipper' pick. It might even be like a one through eight Uh Philly pick. O one way protective Pilly pick, but What would it have cost Philly just to dump the last two years of Paul George's contract. It's somewhere between one first and two, correct? Yeah, it's funny, you should ask. They were they were trying to do just that. I think before Darl left, they were trying to do that and the answer from what I heard was one Solid first, the better first they have, I think that wasn't included in this deal So that's a team like Chicago or Brooklyn, a team that had cap space Please take Paul George from us. We'll give you these picks to take them It's a huge plot point here because once you start to do that sort of connective math, you start to say, okay, the sixixers wanted out of the Paul George business, Paul George prrison or whatever you want to call it and they were willing to attach a pick. So they were going to do this for whatever you could get back, right? They were going to do this and to get a finals MVP, a guy who got real MVP votes this season Um for essentially that package It really contextualized it. and I love what you did too because I was doing the same comparative math with the Kessler transaction and the Desmond Baye transaction. You're like, what is going on? What is going on with Jayen val Jayen Brown's value around the league because it doesn't stand up to any Anyway, I would have evaluated his value. I was shocked at the market value had dropped this low But you're exactly right to call out the Sers wanted to get off Paul George in the first place. CR, I'm sure you were' intrigued by the thought of getting rid of Paul George, regardless of who came back. I got no hate in my heart for him. I was incredibly disappointed by suspension last year and not out of any like moral thing. It's just like that was just like we were actually, the Sers were actually starting to put some stuff together when he when he got suspended And to have that happen, which is sort of an elective absence on his part, even though we never really got the full story about it On top of like all of the load management that either the team and or he were doing for his various injuries, it was just kind of like I'm tired of watching teams that are like, we're going to just try and make sure everybody's healthy for that second round series that we have. and it's like, o, actually Just give me a good good NBA season. How about how about that? And well, you're going to get it from J No He's going to play seventy games a year and he's going to play thirty five minutes a game and he's going to show up night after night and he's going to be a guy that Win it bead's not there canan be twenty shots for you and play thirty eight minutes and play bigger or smaller. Um So wit, I hereere's my main question I want tona ask you guys. There's a new GM and Philly, Mike Ganzy Well president because Jamiir Nelson' the gam. And then there's a new owner in Boston And those differing sensibilities, I think are worth bringing up. I was kind of joking when they put a camera on me and asked me what I thought it is yesterday and I was like, this does not feel like Brad Stevens made this call. But I also saw Winhorst yesterday was like, this is a trade made under duress and I just don't understand this. There is no reason why this have to happen on a Wednesday. There's no reason why this had to be the deal Was the I know that there had been reporting that the Celtics were not getting a lot of they wanted out of the trade markarket for Brown, but is there no you were talking about going to Tuscanos forty eight hours ago. like I wasn't going to go. I was I wanted my dad to go as a representative of the Simmons family. I just thought Once the honest thing happens and it gets out. And then they don't get Yonest because they didn't want to put in extra stuff other than Jayin in two first, which I wholeheartedly agreed with Um And then they canvas the league. There's no trade The third year, I think really hurts with Jalen because it's like sixty three million or something. and they were obviously terrified of it. I think there's two ways to look at this becausecause I, you know, I still have a whole, I want to go through my whole my stages of of process in this trade. There's two ways to look at it. One is the analytics stuff, which I want to talk about later. We could talk about that after the break. and the other is that they feel like This relationship was unsalvageable and was going to get worse And Okay, so why is that the case? Well, you have The twenty four twenty four, the Finals of theP Etern confonference, if they just split those I wonder if this trade even happens. The fact that Jayla wins both, that's a little weird. The Tatum Brown thing starts to get a little strange Tatum getsur A year later Time it that's a complete fluke, right? Jayen takes over the team. I've talked about on the pod a bunch of times where he has the car keys and had an awesome season I've been watching advanced metrics pick it apart, which is fine U I still feel like Wins is the most important advance metric and he showed up night after night and went against everybody else's best guy and was great. And I to me The fact that they were so desperate to trade him And by all accounts last seventy two hours, they seem like they were desperate. Like we got to we got to this has to come to a head right now I don't feel like they could put the Gie back in the bottle with him was the take We have now opened this door where this guy thinks he's the guy. He's going to come back We have Hugo, we have Sireman. We have more picture shots We we don't want to be in a situation where this guy thinks he can average twenty nine points a game again. We have Tatum who can replace a lot of his stuff. And this is going to get worse, not better That's the only thing I can think of for the logic of this trade because everybody's been asking me the last seventeen, eighteen hours. It's not like they had to do this now. They could have waited tntil the season. They could have waited until Febru. Whatever happened since the season ended seems to have given them this additional urgency And it's Maybe some of the things he said both publicly and privately the fact that It wasn't a one A one B thing anymore. likeike I think Jaylen probably felt maybe rightly so after last year on equals with Tatum And they just wanted to get out of the situation. was my take. Does that make sense as it take, CR It makes sense. I mean, I like the timeline you built there because another element of it would be Tatum coming back which was supposed to be this heroic act of selflessness and all that And it almost seems like it just kind of threw everything out of balance. And I wonder if Tatum just says I am out this year. I'm going to rehab And the Celtics have a kind of Nobody believes in us feel good. fifty six wins. We got to the second round. We didn't have enough for the sixers or whoever they lose to Like does this even happen? Is Jamen Brown like, well, and then next year we get Tatum back. And we're going to be in great shape The thing that I also go back to is Brad Stevens' post season press conference where he was like We are not going to be playing this way next year and he seemen way lower on the team than the the NBA community at large where everybody I think was like pretty cool. You guys really You competed and he was like This I did not like this. Yeah And I guess I now we know who he was talking about or what he was talking about because He was probably apparently more out on two Jayss then everybody else and especially everybody else in Boston And it's a bet on Jayen too that you know, we can go into what the team will look like next year, but it's a bet that Jayalen can replace all the I'd sorry, J Jason Tatum can can replace all the Jalin stats and the production and being the number one guy and then the team around him will fit better than Jayalen Brown being told Go over here now. You're not the number one guy anymore Kirk, you remember So I've talked about this before on my pod When I was the first year I was doing countdown when Rudy Gay got traded to Memphis Yeah and became a very important like sloan conference moment. It became this specific tipping point. in the old way we talked about basketball versus the new way. And I was on that show arguing with Magic Johnson, who knows more about basketball than me has had way more MBA experiences than me and Wilbon, Jayalen was kind of neutral And I was arguing, I actually think this trade makes a lot of sense for Rudy Gay. I think he's overrated Um, Memphis, I think turned him into Teon Prince and the grievous Vasquez, I forget who else was in it, but The team took off and they end up making the conference finals because they determined whatever, even though Rudige seems good on paper. And I remember Magic saying at one point when we were arguing about it You need a guy, you need a closer, you need and And I was trying to be respectful, but I was like The stats say he's not that good. All the advanced metrics say He's actually not a closer that you're actually if he's your guy finishing games, this isn't great. and that's why they did the deal So that was this tipping point for that era Now we're in this different era where even though I voted Jalen fifth for MVP, I voted him first two on Bay. I thought what he did last year was incredible There are all these like deep analytics now saying like N actually wasn't that good So as somebody who's at the forefront of the Song C confference revolution, where do you stand on the analytics here U It's a great question. So the tension is Jalen Brown now represents this tension. He's going to be the person who gets associated with this is this guy We have them in the in the Ringer one hundred bill is number fourteen in the NBA after the season. U Estestimated plus minus over at Duncon Thes, one of the best sort of nerdy sites going right now has him at eighty seventh in the NBA. okay, according to estimated plus minus. So this is Don't shoot the messenger here That's the tension. All these teams have these models. How impactful is this guy for winning They measure all sorts of variables from player tracking, things we didn't have fifteen years ago during that Rudy Gay era U But ultimately, these models hate Jalen Brown as a factor on winning. You can look at just basic on off stuff The Celtics had a net rating of six point five with him on the floor and that goes to ten point five when he came out And the models just start doing on these facts. But with those models, how much does that depend on Did you have a really good bench? Well, you know what I mean? If your bench comes in and is cleaning the clock of the other team's bench, then the on off step's going to get skewed, which I would always use as my defense for Jailin in Boston And I want to come back to that Bill because I do think the real reason here is depth and team building in the second Apron era. And I think Brad Stevens as Chris is point out. he wants a one tent poll organization with one giant salary, not two because you need to have the Nick spurs finals, those are deep ass teams. Dudes who are playing seven, eight nine, like Jose Alvarado, you need to have that kind of money. And if you have two guys making thirty five percent of your cap in this second Aprion era Forget it's Jalen Brown or Jason Tatum. That's just a hard math problem for anybody to solve. And I think that's really at the heart of this thing. I don't think it's about advced plus minus or anything. It's like, do we really want to have two dudes in their thirties combining to make seventy percent of our cap and go on top of the thunder and spurs. Yeah, on top of that, two of the top nine contracts in the league, just for figure by year Yeah next three And maybe I don't know. Maybe they thought that was unsustainable, but then The counter to that is, well, Paul George makes as much money as g does. That's what that's the head scratcher the part that doesn't make sense to me. It's like I get the financial thing but a year. Yeah. you got you got out of it after one year not two And I don't know CR that the advanced analytics stuff Um And it's weird because I've always been I think even dating back to the Grantland days, I think we were at you know, we were part of the forefront of everything that was changing there. and I still believe in the numbers a lot of the time. but I still feel like There's something about durability and somebody who shows up night after night and could be the best guy in a team over and over again and accept that challenge The issue is won it in title two years ago. And they won it in byit two years ago. I don't know that What are we playing for, right? Like look, I'm also somebody who's my favorite basketball player ever is Alan Iverson, who's also not beloved by the advanced analytics community. I cannot claim to really understand a lot of this stuff out a certain point Um I think that this is also as much as it's an analytic story, it's a media story to me. turnurning point in some ways in the story publicly, I'm sure privately was much different Was this Bobby Mark's tweet that went out about An analytics guy, unnamed analytics guy telling him that Jalen Brown would be like the seventh best player on our team, not like on a in the league And that really got the ball rolling in terms of this to be coming to the forefront again. This is all going to kind of die down, you know, once once all all the on all the smoke clears But this has just been a fascinating couple of weeks in the NBA where The outside reporting is so speculative, but then like there are pieces of it that feel incredibly well informed And so going back to Jalen doing live streams and saying like this was my favorite year of my career, which also had a lot of context. He also says a lot of other stuff, you know that we don't need to get into. But there's like These little nuggets that then get taken and run with. And the idea that this guy went from a pillar of the franchise to a we need to get him out of here. with no deadline contractually league wide, whatever We just have to get him out the door evenven if it's to arrival in the division and we're going to have to see this dude multiple times a year It really speaks to like I think the tension behind the scenes, but's it's so fascinating me because I want to know how much the speculation around it actually wound up fueling the fire I have some Some thoughts and maybe a couple answers on that, but we have to take a break and we're going to come back and I'm going to talk about my stages of grief with the Jalb Brown trade right after this. This episode is brought to you by Mcoloobbe Ultra. We are in the heart of the World Cup. Look at these little special bottles for Mcolobbe Ultra Every play matters here. FIFA World Cup twenty six for you Mistakes or just aside. Mich Lobuchch are the official beer sponsor of FIFA World Cup twenty six is giving you a chance to win one million dollars worth of tickets and prizes. Micolob Ultra Petsch Four periors worth playing for. Eter now at Miclob Ultra. com slash superior access slash FIFA World Cup Tw six Mic Lob Bulttra Fif four World Cup twenty six superior access Purchase necessary, open to US resesidence twenty one pllus begins on december first, twenty twenty five Es On july thirty first, twenty twenty six, multiple entry periods Visit wWW. miclobulttra. com slash superior access slash FIFA World Cup twenty six for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details All right, we're back. so In two thousand four The Boston Red Sox in July. trraded Noomar Gariera, who was the most popular team team other than Pedro Now hold on They traded him for Orlando Carbrera And they also got Dougmin Cavage in that who ended up quinching the ball when they won the World sereries a few months later And this was an incredibly polarizing trade. And I wrote a piece for Spin d. com Actually it's kind of defending the trade because They had tried to trade Nomar the previous winter in the ARD thing fell apart He had to come back And it was weird. for half the season There was some advanced stuff with him that he was slipping defensively that he was starting to hurt the team a little bit, that he wasn't the guy that he was a couple years before They trrade Cabrera for him who was an excellent defensive player Um and just kind of fit the team better. Everyone in Boston lost their fucking mind And then it turned out to be a great trade and Cabrera was one of the many heroes No four If you're a Boston fan, that's the only thing you're youre talking about Orlando Cabrera to yourself. You're just like, o, maybe this is like the Cabrera trade. I'll give you the stages of When the end of the Irishman It's like Orlando Cabrera. Please So I hear about this trade, the anesthesia wears off and I'm watching America I think convincingly win through nothing, especially because we were guide down for a half hour, including one of the great freeick free kicks of my lifetime. Did you think he was making it CR? I did not think he was too I thought he was going to be too close. The goalie did give him a a wide side of. G them a little bit of space, but yeah, I mean that and the right. It' hard the free kicks when it's over on the left becausecause I feel like you can really blast it. he put so much. Yeah, that was incredible. Anyway, I was trying to focus on the game and I'm in three hours of darkness. Some things I wrote down 'cause I wanted to write down my anesthesia thoughts in real time newew owner sheeped out. Brad panicked Tatum demanded the deal Wst Celtics trade ever haven't felt this helpless since they traded for Vin Baker. Those were five things I wrote down during the World Cup game U, By the fourth hour after the game, a little more uplifting after we w to nothing, even though we lost our best play in our team to a bogus red card. I wrote down takeake last year's team and replace Brown for Tatum Garza for Mitch because they got Mitchell Robinson yesterday. And Simons for Paul George. Wait, are we better or worse get signs of hope And then I wrote down PG play as effectively as Tatum and Brown in the round one series at seventeen points the game, fifty five percent from three He at least like was a draw with And then After five hours and I had some texts I'm trying to get faith. I landed on This has to be part one of a second part of a deal And I think that's where I've landed. And I really wonder if the Trey Murphy piece is going to be the second piece of this because I don't think New Orleans wanted I don't think they wanted Jaylen Brown three more years than him And I wonder if George on a one year less picks and you get Murphy and you get Jordan Poolles expiring back and that's the end game here And now that makes sense to me, Kurt Goldsburg. Does it make sense to you I had a similar sort of come around this morning. I could feel my face again after I woke up and I was like, o, Kate Celtics won fifty six games, is that right, Bill last year with this team. So assuming Tatum sort of slides into the Jayalen Brown slot and I was like, okay, there's a fifty win team, right Um, But I had a similar sort of coming around to it U I'm not sure there is a second move, but that's a great theory do think what I said earlier They value flexibility The NBA did this to all the teams with this hard cap second apron situation Dpth has never been more important. The only way to find depth is in the draft with cost controlled guys and overpaying dudes in their thirties is the fastest way to erase depth. And there's no shortage of teams that can say that right now So I think ultimately, yeah, the Paul George thing of it all is still the weirdest piece. like, okay, all that's true Kirk, but they brought back a thirty six year old girl, thirty six year old guy with bad legs not disappeared for twenty five games last year because he got suspended So I love your theory. if they can now turn that into Trey Murphy somehow and get Jordan Pool as you. So is PG available to get traded immediately or do you have to wait? Well, here's the thing. The trade doesn't get announced uough I think january sixth So you have a few days here july sixth, J I'm sorry, Ju Julyth. So you have a few days here to you know, you can make it a three team or four team or whatever But they do something resembling the trade I just mentioned, maybe they won't Now you're replacing Brown with Tatum Garza with Mitch and Simons with Murphy And then you have your younger guys are a year older and some more pitard stuff and That starts to make sense. If that doesn't happen and this is just a trade And you're going to get a year out of Paul George and then he's a big exp expiring next year with Picks and you're going to make a movie a year from now There is a world where They tell Paul George like you're going to play forty nine games this year. And when you play, you'll play like twenty two, twenty three minutes. We're saving you for the playoffs. We're to play these younger guys. We want to keep you fresh for the playoffs. We want you to have One round, two rounds, three rounds, whatever. where you're play bigger minutes. Paper, whatever Paul George is, whatever we saw This is this is this is where I sound like I'm just cllyimbing trade. I'm not. I'm just saying I'm paper So the way you're justifying it is if there is a hypothetical second move to be made that isn't like we're waiting for Yokich or we're waiting for Dabana flag to come up, right? Like No, it's more like you're using Paul George to get somebody's money back, but ultimately flexibility, which I've been saying in this podcast since the season ended If they traded JayN, I really thought it would be for flexibility. That's why I never really liked the honest thing because I thought I put them in the same position Hey we were in before with these two giant contracts But with the Paul George piece and you're looking at and you're like, all right, maybe we get a year out of him. Less minutes. He's a more complimentary player than Jaylen. Our chemistry is better. We can find out what we have with you with Hugo and Sherman. M pichchard. And we'll patch this together because we did this last year. And by the way, maybe Maybe they're also saying Jalen wasn't as responsible for last year as he got the credit for that this was ass systemist thing. It was depth. It was night after night being able to have ten guys who were competent. It was the three point shooting. It was the defense and That's the only thing I can think of If that trade doesn't happen PG just comes back I still think the I think the thing they're risking here is the fans in the city. That tr You apolog George not I would say he's been a slightly divisive guy over the years You're risking Jayalen going to Philly and Philly being really good right away. You're risking all the Celtics, whatever the team they have now, not playing as well as they thought they were initially and you' You're taking a last year a feel good thing where everybody liked everybody and we're like, wow, this is great I love this team. I love Joe Mizoua. I love Brad Stevens. There's Chisholm Now, if this doesn't work out right away, you're talking about Chisholm walking to his seats before the game and somebody be like, Yo Chisholm! Fuck you Stehven's going into the thing. Hey, Steven. I can tra to jail, fuck you This changes the energy. so they better be right on this CR because you've seen this in Philly. Y. When the energy shifts in the cold weather cities, specifically Boston Philly, New York, It could get dangerous. Yeah. And I think that the things that seem to matter to front offices sometimes are just so far apart from what matter to fan bases. And fanbes like establishing relationships with guys. they like seeing guys grow up. they like acquired and new stars. they like Developing kind of like a rhythm with the team, a rhythm with the way the team plays. Now that can get stale And you can you can find yourself as a Phillies fan and be like, I like these guys, but I've been watching this TV show for ten years now or whatever, but I think that I think that Danger is you know, flexibility over over fandom, you know, and flexibility over who are we putting on a billboard if we're trying to build a new stadium like you guys sound like you are, you know? And Uh, I think that that's that's a real real dice roll Furthermore, you know, like for as much as you're like, this could work out if it's Treay Murphy and there's there's a couple of ways in which this could not work out. you know, that this could go very wrong More than a couple. includluding Jason Tatum with coming off an Achilles injury with like Georgia thirty six, Mitch Robinson who has a big injury history and that they have all these injury variables. Yeah and a couple of those guys that you bring up on every podcast, like who I still don't really remember watching play. like No, I just mean I don't have a lot of like Hugo tape in my head. No didnn't show up against the Sixs We're not like ready for primeime. So like they are really nice regular season pieces And they're really nice development stories, but I don't necessarily think they're going to win a second round series for you guys So Look, I haven't been out in the second round since two thousand one. So what am I talking about? I'm just saying that like There is an element to Um if you're counting on like another deal making this right or this all kind of coalescing in a way that we just don't understand yet There's also like a negative side of it, there's a bad side of it I would say there's a few bad signs The coalescing betting on guys with injury histories Kurt The in reaction to this trade, which is the single most negative fan reaction, Even Mooky Bets, we knew that was coming for like a year. This was I think way more contentious Um I'm sure Brian Curtis Copyright the now they tell us story. I'm I'm dreading that now they tell us for this. The Celtics don't usually operate that way. Theyt They're not a big leaking after the fact organization, but Big question that they would never answer that if I had a Brad Stevens truth serum where I'm like, you have to answer, I'm giving you this I'm going give you a call and ask me an anesthesia. I tell this. This sounds like the beginning of an erotic film. You give me fory physical. by Adrianne Line U From Hell monurn from hell is back. a disruntled fan wants answers Oh Question I' want to know is were you thinking of doing this right after the season or did this evolve during the off season? Because my guess my thought is that pretty much everything Jaywen did from the moment the season ended push them to a place that They decided maybe this was untenable Kirk. Now you you work for a team You're always judging those You're judging the chemistry of the team, You're judging the best guys in the team, the happiness of the team. L like the Spurs got L Marcus Aldrge when you were there. Yeah One of the reasons they got L Marcus Aldridge was because it was pretty clear in that last Portland year He wasn't one hundred percent happy that there is Dame was becoming embraced, even though that Portland team was really good. One of Zach Lowe's favorite teams was off and they and then ers end up getting him. So how much How much do organizations just think about the non basketball personality shit? Yeah, that's the I kept going to that. I don't think people under understand like the human element. When you trade a guy, it doesn't just affect that guy and his family. It affects all the spouses and the kids and like now everybody's looking over their shoulders. So I know that RC and Pop were like very, very careful with the trade tool itself. likeike we don't want to blow up morale We want to build an element of trust around here. And again, they had the benefit of a different CBA era where flexibility was was was king and they had players who were taking less money, much like Jayalen Brunson, which has enabled the Kicks to find depth this time around But I think you're right. I think there is a human story here where Jayen Brown had an awkward last few months. I bet there were tensions behind the scene and that's one of the only ways I can explain a relatively great front office making what I consider to be a bad deal to get away from Jayalen Brown is that there it must have been very bad behind the scenes some real tension that we may never learn about. if Dan Saughnessy iss not going to write it these days, I don't know who will. But like who is why did this happen from a human perspective because the numbers just don't add up. Like you can do the double ledger here and it's just like, It screams like you started the podcast with The Boston Celtics just dumped this dude who won finals FVP two years ago to a divion dump to a division two their historic rivals. Bill says, one of the greatest rivals the league's ever seen Well, the thing I always judge these trades by two things A year later would you Be glad or unhappy that you did it That's one And then Four months later would the trade still be there Hm. I'm guessing if this trade doesn't happen today, CR But we get to the beginning of October. And Boston calls and said, hey Jalen Brown for Paul George and two pigs, you're still saying yes So why would you do a trade Why would you do a trade that's going to be there in October now is the best case for They felt like the situation had gotten untenable behind the scenes And who knows if Tatum You know and I've heard both sides on this. He hasn't said anything Um, He never went on the the Jaylen this is a big thing in the local radio. He never went on Jayalenin's Titch. It is true he never said anything Now the counter would be, well, if he does say something, then that becomes a story. So hes he's got to lay back. Does he say a lot about anything? I mean, I don't really think of Jason Tatum as the most demonstrative star. Like, you know, he does a lot of like H's my doumentary about my my my rehabilitation for my injury, but there's not like a It's a lot of carefully crafted docu series. Yeah. I'm going live on content on IG to break down the W Cp. I mean, it's just u I don't this kind of stuff is like we have replaced reporting with is like looking at at like tea leaves and trying to be like b he. Y guy told me R. Somebody told me a friend of mine. And, you know, I like that's for better and for worse. but I think that the only my only counter to this would be I don't Now in retrospect, don't think Mike Danzy would have waited U I think this the six six team was going to getet changed. I didn't actually anticipate that. I thought that they were going to run it back And it was going to be like this is about cleaning up whatever Daryryl did and We're going to do some depth stuff and'llll we'll draft well and we'll We'll figure out where we're at And hopefully Edgecomb develops and will be like a five seed or something like that And indeed, let's just cross our fingers But now in retrospect, I'm like, oh, this guy wanted to change the face of the team. This guy wanted to strip the paint and make it make it into his own thing And I mean, it' speaking of reading tea leaves brrother I posted a picture yesterday of Ganzy with LeBron in you know, in the St. Mary's uniform from back in the day, which you know, is probably horseshit, but is Tony Jones also reported that the Sixers acquired about LeBron and If that's the game he wants to play, like he yeah, sure. you know, it's like other people have had the joy of cheering for LeBron. I'll take it. But yeah, it's I don't think the Sixers were going to sit around waiting for Jaalen Brown. I think this was an opportunistic trade I don't think Paul George was going anywhere else We should mention W and House and I do the worst contracts draft the beginning of every certain ch in this And Bede was one and Paul George was two And it it wasn't even like it was basically one of those the draft starts at three because we know these are the top two. Now when we did this, Paul George was was under suspension id't know if he was going to come back. The Philly thing could not have gone worse and he had two and a half years left on the deal. Now he has two, but I thought he was really good in the playoffs I said it over and over again. I thought I was shocked by how well he played U I thought he really bothered Jayalen ironically and there was a lot of clips about this last night of all these different times. He locked down Jaylen one on one Three point shooting was great Even in the next series his stats weren't that bad and So that was I thought the besties looked in a couple of years if it's Paul George. if I lot of just And you guys had won, I can't remember what the six or streak was or what we were definitely surging and Paul George got suspended. Boston would implode. like talk you would be need they would have an FCC violation. I want to talk about the Philly piece in one second. This is my last thing on Boston because I think we covered everything there is to cover from the Boston side. But the Jayalen thing I' just Being with somebody for ten years, ironically, ten years ago was when they drafted him what they had with him and Tatum together, which led to a title, six conference finals And I was pretty steadfast all the way through even with the honest thing. I was like, I think this guy iss really good at basketball. Like I don't really care what the stats say I've watched W them over and over again. I just think like This is a guy the bigger the stage, the bigger the event. like he's He's going to be there and he's going to show up peopleople could counter and be like, well, what happened the Philly sereries last year? He wasn't good. Well why they part in three of the last four playoffs U I just wonder if we're ever going to see teams stay together like this anymore in the NBA with the way the apron is. this feels Everyone's talking about the advanced metric side and this is like the end of a certain era. To me, it's like the different end of an era. You could see it in the contracts that were handed out One for seven. two for fourteen two for nineteen. Tesla got one of the only long deals we had. All of the middle class slightly upper middle class, slightly lower middle class All those guys are on one year and two year deals now Nobody wants two big contracts on the same team anymore Um, Utah. who really could have Uu Kessler was like, wow, you're out front of us all this great. takeake them And then you look at the the snowime Lakers now W Reeves making forty five, Kessler making thirty five and Luca making the max. It's like, that's your team. Those are going to be your three guys now So Kirk, I just wonder like you mentioned the sppurs earlier. If we're running back to spurs now, Parker gets traded in twenty ten. He's gone Like they're like shit, we have that. We got to pay that. We got to pay Duncan. We have to pick between Mu and Parker. Parker just had the off the court thing that happened with You know,, you could Google it This is the time. let's move them. We'll get younger, We'll get a young point guard. And guess what doesn't happen You're not one of the best teams in the league for the first part of the twenty ten s. You don't make two straight finals and you don't win the twenty fourteen title So I just wonder is this the league now where we're the NFL and it is a different champion or And it's by design. I mean, this is the first time in league history. We've had eight different champions in eight years. Welcome to the Parody era. It is the NFL and it is a direct byproduct bill of the new CBA that went into effect in twenty twenty three. And one of the things that I don't think is good is we're starting to see like beloved characters being dumped like Clay Thompson, like This guy is going to have a statue. He's going to be a warrior hero, but he gets like dumped. So Jaleen's not the first one to go through this But it's it's it's boring, but it's profound too. It's the instrument insists on giving the biggest paydays in the league to dudes thirty one, thirty two, thirty five years old. And then they immedately become toxic assets They become toxic ac We all know Bill Wenda G's peeak at the NBI twenty eight twenty nine We watched the finals. It was all young dudes and guys in their twenties. Yeah, I said in Janest piece last week on the ringer that like there were two guys Among the twenty five most minutes played in this year's playoffs, there were thirty two and older. This is a young man's game in part because the CBA makes it nearly impossible build a good team around these toxic assets, theseese guys a little past their prime. they're making fucking seventy million dollars. like right We're reserving our paydays for our guys who are a little long in the tooth and building a team around that guy In the second Apron era. is nearly impossible. And I'm not sure if that's good for the long term health of these fan bases and the morale of these teams. So yeah, go ahead. No, no finish finish your thoughts. Well just like I thought it was all embodied by that concept by the viral video I saw today of a little kid just losing his mind about Jalen Brown leaving the Celtics. He had a Celtics jersey on his alling and Jalen Brown actually responded this kid and it's just like heartbreaking. It's like you forget about that part of the business guys. My daughter business. My daughter who's gone who really became a Celtic fan legit like the last few years and is going through all the stages now of when you become a new sports fan. The Yonest trade and why are they trading Jaylen? I don't understand. Why did Miami G Yonest for all this stuff. I've seen all those guys. They're not that good. Th then yesterday, she's faciming me And I'm like fucking out of it. And she's like near tears and she's like, I love Jaylen. I'm really mad. I don't understand why they did this. And you think you're dead I'm like, I just Where am I? I just see afterlife. What are we gonna say CR? I was just gonna say that there's a really interesting narrative history of the last fifteen years to be written where Maury comes in and introduces a lot of the advanced analytic concepts to the NBA and changes the way teams are assembled But was actually the shame badyer trade, right? It was actually shame badd for Rudy Gay sense. But he is actually in retrospect almost Um, was he's romantic compared to the way the NBA teams are run now. Like when he was just like, look, I'm looking at the underlying numbers and eight out of ten times we beat the warriors given X, Y or Z happening. It was almost like this faith that he had Th then you have like this draft capital craze that happens and that's preresty and to some extent the spurs and you see what happened with those guys And now it's like it's Tim Conolly's NBA And you're just like, I'm just going I'm just going to have constant motion I am going to wheel and deal and Kat's out the door and Randall is out the door and Mello's in. And then if I have to, I'll try and find somebody to take Gobert. And then if I have to, I'll do this. And It's just like this sort of churn that's been happening. The Sixers have been doing this too where it's like we rent a guy for two years and then we send him out. Almost like these contracts now, I think what Ganzy did was really interesting is like all the Six' deals are pretty much on the same timeline So even regardless of the ages of the players and be Maxi and Brown are all up the same year. So even if this doesn't work out It's not something he has locked this team into for a decade, you know, it's not like U Well, now what are you going to do? You've you've made your bnd. you have to lie on it with Jam Brown. It's like, no, this is This is something that was very, very specific to Brown's deal. I don't know if he's going to be like If you don't give me an extension, I'm out. likeike that's I think that is going to be an interesting question for a lot of these guys where it's like, I have two or three years left on my deal. But if you want me to come to your team, we have to like basically redo it I forgot to say this earlier. I do wonder if that's a piece of this Boston sideide with Brown was eligible for an extension later in the summer. And if they had said no, how would he reacted? Well you took care of Tatum Tatum was had an extension coming up, you would take care of him. why not me and they're trying to avoid all that stuff. Well you reporting about going the reason why the Yonest thing aside from not including Hugo or whatever, like There was a rumor that he was not going to sign an extension with Milwaukee and they were like, we're not going to trade Gianas and just be back in the situation with another star Well, I'll go further than that because I have information on that that I forgot to share last week. The Jonest to Boston thing was closer than I think people realized And I still don't think Hugo was ever in the trade But I do think it got to the point Bucks had an arrangement with Yonis He was basically going to approve the. they weren't going to trade him without him basically signing off on it. And he didn't sign off on the Miami trade for a couple days there And they were talking about extensions with the Celtics And it came down to it was like two years, thirty percent of the cap could be the extension or three years, thirty five And the Celtics were were pretty entrenched at two for thirty And Janis wanted the three for thirty five and they couldn't agree on it And that was when he greenlit the Miami trade. and Miami throw and Yakaown us That's when it happened. So You can even think from the Celtics thinking there to what we've been talking about a while. It's like, can we compete if we have these two giant contracts on our team of guys in their thirties? And they obviously thought no. So they said no. And then they got out of the jailin thing, which they were desperate to do. obbviously considering the trade You mentioned Philly They have and Bed at fifty seven, Jayen at fifty seven and Max a forty one this year. And B goes to sixty three sixty seven, Jalen goes sixty one, sixty five, Maxi goes forty four forty six, which is you of our guys. That's all I see. In year three, you're going to have one hundred seventy eight million for three guys and I think this is You know, I I I've obviously had a lot of critiques about silver over the last couple of years. It doesn't always please me to do that because I like him and I've had a decent relationship with him I think the biggest mistake he's made is hammering this second apron thing and basically taking advantage of the players. I don't I think the players over and over again are just outmatched in these negotiations. They're negotiating against Billionaires across the board. they're just going to be outmanned. You're not going to know as much about the future as all of these guys who've made all this money doing whatever U what I don't like and what I think they should put in is the longer you're with the team, you should get some sort of cap and tax relief from it I've been saying this forever about the warriors and Curry. Curry's been on that team since two thousand nine That shouldn't matter. He just shouldn't be a blanket. Curry makes sixty one million dollars a year. It should be he makes sixty one million because he's for every year he's been with the team, you get a percent off on the cap or the tax or whatever So he's at a twenty percent discount Because I don't think fans want this. I think it's fun for us for content to just watch guys ship around and watch Lameello leave Charlotte, watch Randall leave Minnesota. Joh Ja Jalen Brown, like it's fun to just watch everybody move around But I don't think it's I don't think it's good for the league. I don't think I care about the shit like the fact that Burt and Mcale played their entire careers together. I just feel like that era is gone now Yeah I feel like that. Yeah, I think that you know if you're looking for one reason to understand why Jayen Brown is on the Sixers today, it's the second Apron. It's the current CBA. And I don't think this might have happened under the previous regime. And I do think it's worth thinking about that for the long term health and sort of macroeconomic shaping of the MBA at large You know, I wrote about it with with Yonest last week because I think that was a huge part of what's going on there and you just alluded to it with the Boston and Miami sort of negotiations there. Like this is The three point line was the dominant game changing artifact of the twenty ten s The hard cap second apron is the equivalent in the twenty twenties. It's changing the game, but it's happening in the front office as opposed on the court with shot selection. And I think the teams that learearn how to use it the most and learn how to navigate it are going to be the most successful. And right now that means Bill first round picks are way more valuable than they were Young talent on cost control is a lot more important than it used to be. And like I said earlier, a thirty three year old bit who's not living up to the seventy million dollars we're giving them is the most toxic asset in the NBA potentially. And that you're talking about it with MB. you're Toronto Th then you're excited. then you're phone. Yeah''s fine. There's nothing to see here. Yeah. nothing thing here. He just had to leave the country. How much Did you see D you see Kwiet at the Blue Jays game It was like Michael Corleone returning to Sicily. It was just like unbelievable. He was there for eight months. It was like he filmed one movie and was just out making the next one U I remember writing about this in my book in the late two thousands about the eighties teams that we had, the Lakers, Sixers, Celphics and pistons Wh those teams would kind of never happen again because it was so easy to circumvent the cap Pay guys, keep guys together And we all romanticized a decade because we got all these guys to stay on the same teams. and when you know, Detroit traded Dantley for Aguire, that was like Cataclysmic trade. peopleeople were like, oh my God, they traded dantly The Lakers in the mid eighties almost traded Um, James Worthy for I think it was worthy for Tarpy and some in a draft pick or something and out at the last minute but we had we had moments like that, but they're always about basketball not the other stuff. and That started a shift over the next ty years. we saw free agency change you talk about these different areas. Free agency changed it in the nineties because Once the guys were on the you on the shorter contracts, you could see people lik to find Marbury be like Yeah, I want my own team and he Minnesota had him for three years. they had to trade him Goldenstate had CWb for one year. they had to trade him, right And we move into the two thousands And it was about these longer deals that really were able to help a team like San Antonio that could build around Duncan who was great. But then if you had a bad GM, they destroyed your franchise. a bad GM You were done for half a decade. Yeah, you were you were done for five years twenty thousand ten, three point shooting, changes everything And then this decade' second Apron and CR like I really don't think we'll see a team go back to back for a long time Even like touran in Golden State in sixteen, I don't think could have happened with the way we're doing this now. Yeah. I mean, especially if you add at the injuries that we're seeing and the kind of and the wear and tear att happening to players. It just doesn't seem like A guy like Tatum who by all accounts takes care of his body as well as anybody in the league, you know, Halliburton, like these these injuries are destroying franchises for not only the playoffs that they're in, but the year after. Um I'm trying to it's really good point about the way that the leeague was built was by creating these long term relationships and now I think that you've replaced that with the dopamine hit of the transactional nature of the NBA, which is like really fun to talk about and really crazy to just be jacked into the matrix all day long waiting for signs that So and so is going here or this plane landed there But I don't know if it's super good for the leag You know, I dont I don't know. I mean, like Sandom itself has become a lot more individual, I don't think people are like I have grown up and decided to dedicate my life to the steelers or the timimberwolves or the nuggets. Like I think they're a little bit more like I like this guy I like it's player centic. Yeah. So I like LeBron. Where's it going? I always on Denver now? I'm in I would not be surprised if next season there's just like a ton of buzz about Minnesota just because Lameelo has like a real fandom among younger NBA fans, you know, U I don't don't I just don't know if it's like totally great for the long term. like is the NBA going exist in twenty five years? You know, I don't. I honestly it goes back to Everything being financially driven including like the fact that they want to expand, which I think is I've talked about over and over again. The last thing we need is two more teams The fact that everybody has a chance, which is how the NFL was able to grow all the value of their teams, right. D didn't matter if you're in Cincinnati Seattle New Orleans, everybody had a chance to win the Super Bowl and you were never bad for more than a couple years And now we're back in that. I'll say one more thing about Jalen. and then I really want to talk about the Lakers just because I want to cheer myself up because I thought that was aboring. C I just ask you one more thing before you do your eulogy for this? So I think the Sickers are better than they were yesterday morning and I think the Sixers are in a position where if this goes well and ifMB gives you If he's on the Paul George forty five games, be healthy for the playoffs. I think this team is way better situated to function during the regular season with a really especially if Fiand comes through. Yep If you have a b Dean W is not a bad pickup, like that's a there's a de there's a starting lineup that the sixixers have I think is among the best in the eastern confonference right now. Well you know what else you did, CR, you turned Paul George into Jayalen Brad. That was that was I keep forgetting that I keep the d is really locked in on Belgium, you know? Like you had Paul George And that's today I have Jaylen Brown. Now now you have Jaylen Brown.ook, you know what? Jaylen's got a lot of good ideas. I'm really open to them. Well, one of the things So So I obviously feely did great in this. But one of the things that I really like about the team, as you know, I'm a durability guy DJ Maxie, Jalen Brown. Those guys fucking play. Yeah, you know forty minutes a game. Nick Nurse because he likes playing guys forty right the game in February. But you basically you've turned himb into the like Proverbial all time luxury Plays awesome She doesn't play you, I think you're okay I think you could patch together rebounds and rim protections and be You know, not a catastrophe, but you're going to have these three guys night after night who are going be playing a combined hundred and five minutes and You know, VJ is going to be way better next year. That was the first thing the Celtics asked for was VJ and Paul George and S org No thanks. Yeah. I'd r to keep VJ blow up I ninety five than do that. Right. I mean, really what you want and this is why the sub things valued Hugo so much is Having these perimeter guys who are two way guys on cheap deals is the single best luxury you can have right now. I think the sixers are going to be good. It's interesting with the The Celtics title odds were six to one Um Really for the entire off season. they're now thirteen to one They are for fifty plus wins on Fandle. Do you think they are a minus or a plus on that bet your bet in the Celtics to win fifty plus games I'm gonna say a plus, but I'd be tempted. I think the bones are so good, Bill You're going to tell me the price. If it's a plus I'm in Mus one thirty five So and conversely the Lakers are plus two hundred. to win fififty plus games Now was that with Confederate currency or with sorry back to Minneapolis U The The thing with the Celtics, I think they're still going to be good next year unless The city is so mad and so focused on how much they hated this trade. It gets a little black cloud over it. I think one of the reasons that did this trade was a what happened in twenty nineteen when it was like on paper. Look at the lookook at this team Hayward back We have Tatum and Brown and Kye and Al Horford and we're going to be awesome in the eagos and All that stuff never. and I think that was part of the fear and why what leads to this trade. Um But I also think that could happen this year because of the energy of the trade and people just being mad. If Philly starts out going like eighteen and three And the Celtics are like nine and nine and Tatum's having leg issues and You know, there's a there's a couple different scenarios here where we're like, oh my go. It's also a complicated thing for Stevens to sell to his fan base because to make it sound like he's really excited about this trade, he's going to have to sort of denigrate Brown on the way out. You know what I mean? Like I think we got better. I mean, it's a very, very, very delicate dance here All right, Jayalen Brown quickly twenty twenty four Champion. Yes. Indiana Series made the shot in the corner, which was one of the great Celtic shots of this century He was awesome in the Dallas Aas defending Luca going to away. his game three. I think he has thirty in game three. They're up to nothing in the series And both of them together really took it. And that was like the platonic idea of the Jayss together like you want see when they wanted. Th those two guys in that Dallas game is I'm glad you brought it up. I was just going to add like onn a scename with Derek White and Drew Fregin Holiday Who didzoula? Yeah, who did Joe Mzoua use to guard Luka Dantich in that series Jayalen Brown and that's why he w finals MVP, you know, he had a slightly more efficient shooting series than Jason Tatum, but it was the defense Billy called out He is he is a serious defender and was more than capable in that series against Lua Donic And if he if Tatum wins finals MVP I think all this is a lot easier afterwards Shalen gets the ECF Taton wins the Finals MVP, which I think he should have. I said it at the time. don I don't understand why he didn didt win it. And But I think problems probably start there. Anyway. Jayalen was amazing for the city He showed up All the time. never however, if you ever got weird off the court, never saw it on the court Um, I thought he was releliable. There were frustrated things about him, which you get frustrated by everybody when you watch them play basketball for ten years, right I just thought he was an awesome gu. You said he was an incredible guy in the community too It really was and and honestly that was the same thing for Mukei too. like you don't get a lot of these the people that can Bridge all kinds of generations and all kinds of different things that really seemed to care about giving back and he was one of those guys too I'm Mrch Manning.'madison Skinner, I'm Ev Yovich. I'm Coria Moo. Wan to train like a Red Bowl athlete? Tell us your fitness goals this summer to enter the Red Bowull Athlete challenge. You'll get to try each of our workouts for a chance to win an ultimate Red Bull experience. D you have what it takes So good, so good. 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They gave Kessler four years one hundred thirty after giving up first in twenty thirty one and twenty thirty three and swaps in twenty eight and thirty They signed grimes and Mamu for Four for sixty, four for fifty two They let Conard go and sexting for two for nineteen. A guy that Charlotte, which was like a nine seed was like Kobe White's a major upgrade for us They have Kessler, Mamu, Luca, Reeves and Sextan. I think as the starting lineu up in eighten Grimes Bandy and L Ravia coming off the bench and Bronnie want to throw him in there for fun. U I'm just dumbound to herurt Yeah. I I you're locked into this team now that I don't think has any chance to beat Not only C Antonio, not only Okay C Um, but probably not Utah Probably not Minnesota. Even if Luke is averaging thirty five a game, I just don't see how this is defensively a team that could hold up multiple playoff rounds. I just don't get it. So explain it to me Kirk had so much trouble explaining it that his computer froze. You go, CRM and we'll go back to Kirk. This team feels a lot like the twenty four Mavericks And it feels like a team that was built by Luca for Luca based on like what he wants to play with secondary ball handler and Reeves Big guy protects the rim And I guess can flush it, although Iven' We've been seen a lot of Kessler over the years U I know he's I know he's a really good room protector, but it's just a strange thing when all the word coming out of the Lakers was Mark Walters is here We're going to have the front office from the future And Palen is still there and he's making deals basically based on what his star wants, right? I mean, that's that's just my read superficially. What do you think I thought they need to get him to sign an extension, right Obviously, he's signing off on all these moves This is what he wants. He wants a defensive rim protector guys around the room. and want shooters around him. The part I don't get is the lack of a defense of anybody I still don't know who's Qint you watch Quint Grimes for a couple of years. you'really on defender. Cool player. Yeah. Who's guarding SGA on your team. Right. Who's guarding Anthony Edwards What do you do when you play at the oraments of Lelo together who'sarden Sbal Murray I just have Oh, Kirk's back. U I just have a slew of questions. CR we were talking about, u The holes that this Laker team has curks and likely This feels like a team Luca built for Luca's purposes for Luca to get awesome stats. Yeah, I don't like this team at all as a guy leean spurs heavy, Nothing just making me shake in my boots here. We talked about ownership earlier. There was talk bill like when Mark Walter and the Guggenheim bros bought this team for ten billion dollars from the bus family that they were going to turn in the doodgers of the NBA and be the smartest, most aggressive team in the league. This doesn't feel like that to me They have spent a lot of money on Austin Reeves on Mamu and now on Quentin Grimes. But yeah, like I said, this is a franchise that expects to win NBA championships. I don't see this roster competing for championships against a Thunder team that's going to be pissed off, a sppurs team that's going to be better. and then all the teams in the East that seem to be getting good. I wonder whether or not the long term play here for the Lakers is to swoop in on a disgruntled Boston president and make him the front office Bred Stevens Wow. after Chisholm made him trade his beloved Jalen Brown, Brad Stevens puts himself up for for an I up this free agency and joints Lickers. I really doubt Chisholm made them do anything. if anything, I' just sc. No, no, I'm saying like if anything, I think he's probably guilty of Babbe should have thrown his body in front of the trade versus telling them they had to do something Bigger question for me. You know, Kessler four years one and thirty put five games last year. I like him. likeike he's a rebound and block. There's good advanced metrics. Should any center with with the current setup we have other than WeMy be making more than like twenty nine million a year? Is it defensible? If the Celtics are paying twenty million total for Minchell Robbertson, Garza, and Kata. And Ka has some extension coming next year, but U it just feels really easy to bod is even forty on on the Nicks like Did you get him s? We did I don't mind him for fifteen minutes a game. I think there's a lot of those guys and' the difference between someomebody like that and then or You know, the Lakers are paying forty one million dollars for Aidon and for Kessler next year How is that a winning formula counterpoint as a Spurs guy watching the Luke Cornett minutes in the last two or three rounds of the playoffs. We were holding on for dear life Luke is a good player. like no disrespect to Luke Cornett But yeah, like if you have a really good solid backup, like the ability of Oklahoma City to have hard scen and or ched out there. I think it is veryery valuable. Obviously there's a guy in Denver that's worth a ton of money who plays the center position.. But yeah, I like some of these dudes, but I always count Yogage. I don't even know what position he is. I guess he should count in that wimby thing, but Yeah, you could tell me he's any position But Kessler this is a massive overpay. Let's not lose sight of that. That this is almost like a Rudy Goubert deal, but Rudy was like a multiple defensive player of the year at the time And he is impactful. If you have Rudy Go Ber and he's age thirty one, you're going to be a top five top ten defense automatically and that's been the site of the court the Lakers have been trying to build for years, but you said it in passing your durability guy The biggest question with Walker Kessler is he going to play more than five games? Is he going to play twenty games? He's been struggling with the same shoulder thing. since college So it's a huge risk on a player that hasn't sort of demonstrated that durability, let alone. the competence to be a dominant center in the Western confonference bill Yeah, and you could see like Portland I was really surprised they didn't want to make Klinging the best guy in a Jalen Brown trade You know, it's different than the Hugo situation where Hugo was being treated as a throwown in that trade I val him Clinton is the main piece to get Jayalen Brown probably isn't holding me back, but I don't know SR, mayaybe teams are looking at this is like if Kessler is going to make four for one thirty And Kling can do a Kessler impersonation for nine million a year Maybe that's one of the best assets you can have I also think I wonder if Indy, but that's obvious that's where you get into like was Luca Donic like, yeah, you know, just get whoever you can get for nine million. I'll make him work Ait and obviously weren't happy about it.ight I mean A's a very specific proposition, but like it sounds like this was a team like like I said, that's been built instantly to suit Luca's preferences. and his preferences were obviously a twenty twenty four Mavericks, even even maybe even earlier vintage of that Mavericks team where he's got a diving like rim running center. a secondary ball handler and shooting everywhere. and then Let's worry about defense when it's time to worry about defense So you think Indiana who gave up two first for Zubbots And basically a fifty, fifty chance that one of those picks was going to be five through nine in this draft and then it came up tails Zubbots on a way better contract than Kessler and the price for these guys is two first. So You think Kevin Pritchard was going to the office and they're like, Yeah, I told you guys I ee seeee that custer deal Um It's a little more defensible. I still Gre with that Cer now Yeah, I think that's a good kind of bit more They played like Russian roulette with that lottery pick and lost thenen I'll always remember that Yeah deal with, but Dude, I't I don't know what the Lakers are doing. I don't care about Kevin Pritchford right now. By the way, I do love the I can't wait to watch the Pacers next year. No no there's nothing there, but What are we doing? What are we doing with Walker Kessler? We're the Los Angeles fucking Lakers, dude. Like we go after George Mikeen and Karim Abdul Jabar and Shaq, like Uh and Anthony Davis, by the way, like What are we doing? Walker Kessler, How much where the fucking Lakers? Like where is that swagger And like we don't get Walker Kessler. We get, you know, Nicola Yokich, we get We get the biggest guy available And it feels like they took a lot of their own flexibility out with all that draft capital bill. So I just ye I know it it's a small sort of silver lining for your day yesterday with your colonoscopy and then Jayalen Brown. They started out great But the Lakers seem to have fucked their up their their f for a little bit our opinion. Sara, if If you tesle in a trade Kessler I think Utah iss one of the smartest teams we have That would make me nervous. Sure. Why try not trade them? You're this young rebuilding team. you already have a ton of pick. I have I have trade Kessler. I'm very excited about the Jaalen Brown trade. I have the same feeling about trading with Brad Stevens. I'm like, I really hope I really hope that Brad Stevens just like hit his head and this is what's happened because like I don't want to be in on the wrong side of these deals. I also Verno made a really good point that I happen to agree with, which is It's very strange that that's the market for Walker Kessler and Jayen Durn can't find a job Well, this goes back to my question about should any center except for Weenby and Yokage if he is a center. I guess he is. We'll count him as a center. feel like he's like point guard on offense. I don't know what he is in defense. But Jayen Duran paying him forty million dollars a year I just think it's prohibitive to everybody If he gets that God bless him It feels like twenty five to thirty is the range for guys like that that are like Good centers but they're not game changers. And then I guess Yanis if you consider them a center, which I wouldn't. So Utah has Triple J marketing Bailey, Peterson, George then Senseiba Philip Pasky Coller. So they they they took a step back from Maybe oh wow. could this team be a six seat if Peterson's good Um, I do wonder if they would have taken Boozer if they knew that this Kessler trade was sitting there I wonder if that changes the dynamics of that at all Be I think it was a little closer So you like you like it with what they have it. I just think If I'm doing the Kesswer thing, I think I would just rather have Boozer, but we'll see with Peterson. They obviously, they were all in on them Wait did it cross your mind yesterday too with Danny Aines, who's a main character in Boston history Would he have done this Jalen Brown deal? because it's interesting that Danny's fleecing the Lakers in my opinion on the same day that this Jalen Brown thing is going down with Briad Stevens I think Danny would have traded jailon a year ago and Tatum got hurt He would have been like here's a soft rebuild I think he would have completely bone it up And uh I think he would have traded him and I think he would have thrown away last year completely Um and probably been proactively a year too soon on it. I mean, the bigger question is, was there even a Jalen Brown trade last year you know, I don't know what what was available last summer, but Um Well, so So Lakers, we're all confused by that Not to mention team with three white guys threeree. I had I had a Like a team that's being led, their three best players their way. I had this great email. I got to find it from somebody who Back over the course of history This this is from Jason Downey. It's from JD Vance. It's JDV in Washington. No, Jason Downey said The last time a team with three white guys as their best guys won a championship was nineteen fifty eight Sain. Louis good forget If you go to white guys, Berd and Mcaail or or Cins and Hondo. Can Luca, Reeves and Kessler overcome three quarters of a century of NBA history? No Yeah, I'm going to go no. that's a no for me Dg. See if fanda will put that up.now time Lakers. So then the Southex C cururrently get Mitch Robtsson yesterday for three for forty seven, which I thought was a great deal The Kicks would not go over the second apron for Mitch spend a lot of money over the years. We've seen title teams do this, Kirk two thousand even Dallas most famously with Tyson Chandler where they're just like, nope When the title holding the line, we want flexibility two thousand eight Celtics with Posey was another decent example of didn't want to head into all the tax shit. Nuggets right. Didn't they do that kind of with Brucey B? I guess probably there was no way they could back they back Yeah they bas got poison pilled with them.. There was an a Reza Lakers situation when he got hot in the finals. they let him go U Defensible or no to you that they let Mitch go I mean, it's the theme of our podcast in an extent is like this is a hard cap world. L we're living in a hard caped world. unless you're the Cleveland Cavaliers last year, the only team that dared go over this rule. the second apron I don't think they had much of a choice, Bill. I do think, you know, as somebody went to the NBA Cup last year and watched Mitchell Robinson essentially beat the sppurs, That was like a premonition for how the finals would go in my opinion. He's such an important part of their culture that bench unit that I think got us from the Tibbs era to the Mike Brown era and obviously got us to a title level is very, very expensive in the modern NBA. and this is exactly what we can can start to see from a title team. like yeah, your second best center is gone. And to your team, I think it's a great addition for teents struggle with rebounding down the stretch in some of those playoff losses Mitchell Robinson is one of the best rebounders, if not the best reboundnder in the league right now and he showed it in big moments. So I like it for Boston. I'm not surprised to see see New York not not being able to afford that many good players. CR, I'm not going over the second apron and getting crippled by all these different things for my seventh or eighth best player I'm just not doing. I just think everything is like context if like if Sam Presti did this, everybody would be like, I see, he knows, but it's James Dolan. so they're like cheapskate like God d motherfuck not bring Mitch back. You know, like it seems Dan was riding such a high after the title and then the speech came out that he gave to the team And if he had just gone away to like Australia right afterwards, he'd still be riding a high bike I know But it's like this is the same kind of thing, you know, like I think we we're giving Tim Connolly the benefit of the doubt because's a really good GM with the Lameello trade. I know that you didn't like it, but He obviously had his reasons, but then people are like, what is what is Tom Dundan doing with Portland? Why do they have five guards, you know? like Everything is just sort of about like the sort of narrative architecture around it That was my favorite Jalen trade and the one I was rooting for was laserin Yeah, with Drew Hay coming back. Kamara and a couple picks and just call it a day. And I think that would have accomplished a lot of what the Paul George thing is, but obviously Portland didn't want him And that I heard recurring them over and over again. Yeah, peopleeople just were turning down Jayen left and right Portland was really sticky with the young those young players with Milwaukee too, Bill. and and he add in the fact that honest, I don't think would have wanted to extend in Portland. But yeah, I heard that they were not willing to part with their young talent in either deal, but yeah, it would have been better to get younger if you're the Boston Celtics, but they inst got older. Do either of you have a the Lakers as a playing team or as a playoff team I I mean I think so because I think they'll be a good regular season team. So if they're all healthy and if they if they don't suffer like two months hamstring Lukca You know I think that they will play well on a n Luca. Yeah. Hmstring or cal strain Luca Bill sent me on the wild goose chase about calf straings and hamstrings last year. and I do think that's the right thing to bring up. like That's no small assumption at this point with him or Austin Reeves. But yeah, if Lu is playing in their playoff team If they lose two of those three guys for any significant amount of time, I think it's going to be quite difficult Luas plus six hundred fifty now for MVP Unfando Weemby's plus two ten is the favorite because when BSGA Yokage Janas Edwards, Tatum sixth Jaylen Brown, still one hundred to one CR You're talking about the all time FU season by somebody I just maxy throwing mals the entire day There's a dark side of this Lakers season though that I'm Maybe I'll have to grab on to as I search for answers and happiness. And collollided to Toronto. Uh h For Ingram and Dick and two first and thirty one and thirty three in a twenty seven. Is it just crazy that he's that they were allowed to do this before they settled this entire investigation? It is. It's just crazy Yes. I've heard this. So so what would Adam would he just say you're not allowed to M would been like you makeake the investigation a little bit more expedient if possible. likeike throw a couple more lawyers at this thing. like Whatever it is, whatever you're going to decide, like it seems strange that the main character of this controversy is now allowed to go to Toronto And is this is Like I've seen people say this is kind of almost a shadow punishment You know, or whatever we're basically I don't believe it. I don't believe it either. but yeah I just find this incredibly strange that this was allowed to happen. Can I give you some cool stats It was interesting watching everybody talk about it. I'm like, this is the missing piece for Toronto. Now they can make the finals We just get sports amnesia sometimes with guys Ko I played for the Cippers for seven years in the bubble and r in twenty twenty, they lost in round two and seven to Denver. They blew three w lead twenty one, they made the West finals. he broke down halfway through round two So basically he had only won Tw playoffs areies up to that point. twenty thousand twenty two, no playoffs becausecause he's hur twenty twenty three lost in five to Poenix. he broke down in game two. That's round one twenty twenty four Lost in six round one to Dallas. he played two games twenty twenty five, Loston seventh to Denver two thousand's twenty six lost the first playing game to the Warriors at home where they blew a big lead And he was terrible in the second half He's played eleven playoff games in the last five years The last time he was part of a winning playoff series was may twenty twenty one Why are we talking about this guy like it's the twenty nineteen Kawai and he's back. He's not that guy anymore I don't care. I know he was good. I voted for him for second team MBA last year But as we talk about over and over again, regular seasons here Playoffs are here And he hasn't shown up in the playoffs for the entire twenty twenties. He hasn't made it So why why is it going to be different this year, Kurirk? It's not going to be different, but here's why. it's the same shit that makes Jaylen look bad relatively. These models like the estimated plus minus, which is a great tool But if you look at it right now, Kawuai is always a top five, top six player in that list. but o your point earlier, durability is a skill and a lot of times these models like fail to account for the simple fact that you have to play a lot to be a great NBA player Juls better playing ten, fifteen games less a year. so you look better in the models. Well, that's like what Paul George like looked great in the playoffs after he got his twenty five game break. And I do think that's one of the reasons the league is skewing so young is like Julian Champani played over one hundred games of NBA basketball this year Like and many of them in the playoffs, like this is insane what we're asking these athletes to endure And many other bodies just simply can't handle it. disproportionately older bodies with preree existing injuries like Kawai Leonard. So I'm not surprised. I would bet very strongly he won't survive another grind like he did in twenty nineteen when he by the way, wasn't one hundred percent then either when they won it all, but he was seven years younger than he is coming back He was really good last year Um, They lost the first playing game to a team that then lost by like twenty in the second game CR My takeaway from this transaction is just that the clippers have returned spiritually to the prelubbsidiera that this Ders Garland and Brandon Ingram almost feel prelb city clippers to me And I appreciate that. Maybe that is the cllipper's punishment We're back,be. as brand and anngro. Yeah Yeah they So the quippers tradeedi Harden and Zubbots They got Garland and Waggler back Ingram , I guess. Yeah. G Athan is truly pre live these cliffers. Yeah Grady Dick This about as z four clliippersy as you're gonna get Isaiah Jackson three in prrotected first one swap way more capf space. I'm still not sure why they didn't get involved in the Jayin thing, but what do I know? I am still confused why Kawai was so excited to return to Toronto And I do think this is If I ever did another basketball book, this would be another great NBA whatever for me. If he just stays in Toronto, he could have stayed with Siakam Anonobbe, Laowry Van Wek, Powell Gasala Abaca twenty twenty And they probably would have gone back to back would be my guess. Steady jumps to the Qippers forces them to trade SGA in all their picks, Aspiration scandal Kurk he won four playoff series in Toronto and two with the Cippers That's wild as part of the front office that sent him to Toronto. It's almost a full circle moment. Don't trade Great players to your rivals. Like I remember that the Lakers were calling us in twenty eighteen, Can we get Kawi Leonard from you? And Pop was like, fuck no. we're not trading our best player to the team that we think is a real threat to our championship hopes over here U and you know, so we sent him to the Eastern Conference to Toronto where it's for many reasons, but one of them was like, we're not here to help our rivals in Los Angeles. But one of the things Bill we knew back in twenty eighteen was he was going to end up in LA a year or so later. He was going to go to Southern California. And so I'm actually kind of surprised given that the emotional reasons he wanted to be back in Southern California that now he's back in Canada. off all of this stuff, it's like, dude, I thought you you wanted to live in LA. like I thought that was the whole thing. It does Yeahah, and he was living in like an hour and a half outside of LA to and seem like you love being in California. It does I can Conspiracy bill has H has done some deep dives. I'll just say that. Conspiracy bills, I'm like who's doing the aspiration scandal L like, we're working on it we're gonna be our verd. Conspiracyill iss gonna to look at this over the course of the summer. Hey, I just Venmoed you for Rnt. Nice. Now I can instantly spend it whether I'm checking out online with VMmo or using a VemMoe debit card. Say more The more exactly because the more you do with them Mo, the more you get likeike earning up to five percent cash back with VenMo Stash on a bundle of brands. So order more pizza. The math demands it. Get the Venmo deebit card. VenMo Stash bundle terms and exclusions apply. See terms of Venmo. me slash stash term. Venmo check out notot available with all merchants. Venmo Master card issued by the Bangcor Bank NA The summer, serve up the cookout classics, craft Mo and dressing. Tss green salads with delicious ranch dressing or zesty Italian. Serve smooth, craably creamy potato salads with mayo. We all know it's not a cookout without craft And L LeBron. lastast shoe, right? Like this is great. that this is the here we are Here we are fifteen years later. we're still waiting for LeBron Yeah, I read a Brian Curtis. Trade rumors pace. Now we said we're in the trrade rumors era for Grantland. twenty fourteen, he wrote, it was twelve years later and it was a very first Very piece that saw the future in a lot of different ways, including that we're probably going to be here for the rest of our lives with LeBron he decided not to return to the Lakers Okay. G I wrote down, he decided not to return to the Lakers. likeike I decided not to return to the SSPN That was funny Um Anyway, then we all knew where this was going. And doy left, Where is it going Well, with him not being on the wakers. Yeah, but like where doing this for six months? Because first of all, I just have to say our Ringer podcast network colleague, Rich Paul,' been doing a wonderful job. The Ringer's Rich Paul Having all of us play a game of clue about, you know, it like he wants to go somewhere that has both good indoor and outdoor golf. you know? And it's like everybody is like looking up topop golf blank locations across the country. But he wants he wants winning and he wants to be happy. sureure. U wouldouldn't have guessed that I, uh I find this fascinating. I almost find it kind of fun. You know what I mean? Like we're not gonna to get to do this that many more times, probably than ever with him So I'm down to go one more last time we're on the Cows cararousel I'm to make a prediction Yeah. I think this goes on for a lot of the month because it will get stories day after day and conjecture and podcast content when podcasts are dead in mid July after everybody has gone with wherever. I just think this My guess would this keeps going and going Something and I've seen and we did I did something with Zack about it on Sunday, where could we go and I thought San Antonio made the most sense, but they signed to Bias Harris. So that's not happening U Denver is a team that I think we always thought it would be fun to see him and Yokage together is no history there I haven't seen this possibility mentioned yet down your seats. What if he doesn't pick anybody Until like January, February Rch. What if he just Roger Clements Yeah, what if he just says, you know what my time with this one golf. I to watch the league. Yeah I'm going to play golf for the next six months. gonna stay in shape I want to make like a February, March April, May June run, a five month sprint I own every single record there is to own right now. It's not like I'm playing for Maybe did he get to forty thousand points? I don't remember. I don't even. He has so many records. I don't even know what the records are anymore Does he just say, you know what? I'm going to wait. I'm going wait to see who's more andappy with their team in December in January and early February and I will just People keep talking about this for the next six months. I think it's in play What do you think of that idea I think that that would be a a sensational media story. And and given and now I think that there would be some resentment that would build up of like V Bronze holding League hostage and all this stuff the idea of him being like, let's see who's surging In January And I will come in as like the great arm off the bench, you know, and it If anybody can keep himself in playing shape it's him Yeah. It's the Roger Clemens move as Kirk said. Yeah I'm still. I'm still be in an awesome shape I don't care about regular seasons anymore. I'm gonna to pop in and out with somebody for four or five months. And also I think that it's worth noting like the math on like, who would he be offending if he did this, right? Like He's played for several different teams as we've talked about over the course of this pod, like the rivalries, the state of rivalries and And there are no go zones and the NBA is kind of falling apart So yeah, like why not? if if if Denver's rolling I could see him going to Denver, but in January, you know, like if Well, especially if the market's not as robust as maybe they're pretending it is. And he's looking at lower than mid levels or So the only thing I think this do is that if he does announce that this is his final season, which I guess everybody is assuming that this would kind of diminish the victory lap. Or maybe he hasn't decided that at all We don't have any into on that. L So one of the reasons I've always thought he was going to go the Wriors is I thought it was going to be a two year deal lined up with Curry and lined up with Curr and they'll be, I was calling it the expendables, but they'll just sell out everywhere And it would be this kind of appreciation to year tour combined with the fact that they'd be pretty competitive if they could Get everybody to stay healthy at the same time in April and May But that didn't happen right away So I'm wondering why becausecause I think the warriors were ready for it to happen U And now it's on hold So The Miami thing makes no sense to me. I think that would be so weird You're going to have Bam Mignianis and LeBron all like what is that team Are you winning a title with that? also Chat Riley basically like called him out when he was leaving in twenty fourteen and was basasically without saying that saying like you're taking the cowardly way out, but you're m on this after one loss. What is LeBron playing for? Like what is LeBron playing for financially and what is LeBron playing for emmotionally. Is he playing? He's playing to compete which is weird because he was just on a team with Luca who we have as a top five or six ring room one hundredter guy And Reeves, who's a top thirty five to forty guys. So it's not like he couldn't have competed on the Lakers. It's just the real issue is You can't compete if you're paying a forty one year old guy fifty million dollars a year anymore So he has to wrap around his head like, where am I in this current ecosystem I can't be one of the best two guys on the title team anymore. I just can' So What does that mean financially? So that that's all Where do you want him to w up? Where do you want him to go? I wanted him to go to San Antono. I thought that would' have been awesome U Denver is just fucking weird enough that I would watch every league pass game And then u Golden State, I think, would be super fun Cleveland is the one that doesn't make any sense to me, and that might be one of the most likely outcomes You're going to have and James Harden on the same team Yeah. And If you put If you put LeBron on last year's Cab's team against the Kicks Lets put him instead of Wade and Struus getting all those minutes. Does the series change You think the Kicks lose that I don't think the runs on trash for the problem against the Kicks Yeah. so I don't I had the calves scenario. I don't know, Kurirk. that one seems lame to me. I don't think they get them anywhere feeles right in my gut though, like the part where he's doing a victory lap in the cavs jersey and the goal isn't to win a championship. So I think that's really the fork in the road. If this dude wants to win one more title, it's not Cleveland. I don't think that puts them over the hump. place like San Antonio or Denver that is a player away, a chess piece away. like I think we're going to learn about a lot about his motivations by when he chooses and where he chooses because I do think the story the movie the movie story is going back to Cleveland and I feel like that's the way for him to be beloved athlete in Ohio history and to make sure that Probably is. so it might not. But I know it's lame, but I do think if I had to guess that's where this goes Um, But if he chooses a place to go in, I mean, Philly, Minnesota, Denver, San Antonio, there's a lot of compelling choices where he could be the fourth best guy. And hell, he would make every team kind of sly good. LeBronz in layoff Lo would take thirty five witers. Minnesota would be an insane move I think if I'm going to do that, if I'm going to latch ono a team wait until December to do it That's not going anywhere. I want to watch all these teams. I want to play it out and have a good time And do the is he retiring or is't he? And I'm in the news all the time, which is I think one of the things that's attractive It's it's the dialogue about what's happening with him. that seems to be at least partly addictive to him and everyone in his circle by the w next What's it get to next? We knew he wasn't come back to the Lakers The reason I love that bill is like again, the eighty two game regular season is an obsene amount of basketball for an older person to try to endure I like this. this could actually set a template for Kevin Durant going forward or Stehen Curry going forward. is like I don't need to be out there until Christmas. This is ridiculous. I'm just going to get a hamstrer And training has become and sports science and training have gotten so good that I can keep my body in playing shape, even if I'm not playing Yeah, and I'm more likely to be relevant in April mayay and June if I'm not playing October, November, December meaningless basketball games against, you know, Orlando on a Tuesday night He is forty three thousand four hundred and forty points He had so many records, I couldn't remember if he had forty thousand points or not. He has the games record. He has basically the minutes nameame a record. He probably has it or is in the top five. So the regular season, I don't think helps him as much at this point. I think what would help him is How do I How do I stay in the mix How are people continuing to talk about me as I try to do this off side thing that I'm trying to do And then Cant I just parachute into a good situation because I'm going to I mean, the thing with LeBron is he could fit in any situation be like fun LeBron like he was before Luca got hurt in the Lakers. So just like plop me in here, I'll figure it out and then becomes this huge asset. And maybe he'll watch Minnesota for two months and be like Yeah, I feel like I can help those guys. I'll go in there. Or maybe he'll watch Denver and be like, oh, shit Kristian Brown looks healthy this year, huh U So anyway, like that makes way more sense to me than him talking himself into being on the Cippers playing with Garland and Wagler. and I just don't see him doing stuff like that. A couple of other really quick things then we'll go Miami loses Powell because of the honest trade. So I feel like he has to be added to the honest trade. The guy made the All Star team last year basically They lost everybody on their team except Bam and Mitchell. I feel like the Janest sweepstakes ended up just There's going to be some piece written about all the teams that affected negatively. And then Detroit feels like it's kind of blowing up their team and that we' we're right now it's nine hundred forty one Pacific time But they lost Tarris. They replaced them with John Collins. fine I don't think he's as good as to Bias Harris. I thought Harris was on last year's team, their number two guy they went to anytime they needed a basket. It was also like the veteran culture center guy who's seen it all and like here to help Kayen Duran and then And then you bring in John Collins, who seems like, I have no idea like What kind of duty is, but it just seems like kind of more of a rent a forward situation rather than. It's like a three year deal that's really a one year deal. Yeah. And they seem paralyzed by all this ster and stuff, but It's weird to me that if they had this moment coming with their team where they're going to this great reckoning. Why didn't they go harder on last year's team They extended Hur her, which I thought was weird too because I don't even remember him playing In the playoffs. So I don't I don't know what to make of what they're doing, Kirk And why not try to go after Jayen Brown would be be the other one. If that's the price, couple first round picks and some s cap flexibility, which didn't even get. Yeah and the Duran, they might end up with Jay and Durren still on their team and that relationship is going to be strained now. So, you know, there's a case for why aren't we just putting our armor on Jay and Duran? Yeah, you had a bad playoffs, but you're all NBA, twenty two year old, we're not getting Another player like that in Detroit So if it ends up with like this quasi strained relationship with Jayen Durn and some number that is insulting to him, that's not great either. But this is a sixty one win team bill that was on the rise U And it feels like I had them down in my biggest losers of free agency so far because it feels like they're not getting back to sixty one wins, right next year. Like the Stewart that might lose That's right who knows? Beef too. Yeah Robinson, they wave might come back. They lose Harris This team was successful and they just I thought they were a score short. U Favorite signings really quick I thought Ubay to Indiana for two for seventeen, I really liked. They're going they're gonna to like him Andian iss going to be good Like if if they get Hallabton one hundred percent back. I know he battled shingles and stuff, but I really like that one Um Conard two for thirteen in Phoenix was a fun one And then Harris to San Antonio, I just really like. Although If we if we go backwards and we think about that finals They have to buy us Harris Who's losing minutes Kirk at that point So we lose to Brian minutes and we lose champanne or the two Yeah, but Champagne's tough because he'll make eight threerees in a game and just win it. I love Julian Champagne and in related story. the Spurs added three years to him and that's a great story because he was a scrap heap guy. now he's are paid Um But it just gives them optionality. And I think to bias as as a shot creator, like the sppurs look terrible on offense a lot. like the offense just doesn't look good. It gives them another shot creator. So I think somebody could take ten shots a game where there's ten or less seconds left than the shot clock. one hundred percent. So I like it for them. It gives them optionality and looks and everybody on that team is still getting better as you know I didn't understand the Barnes thing in relation to that, but They love me. I get it, but could they love him for one year for two million? One year for eight. We still don't know where Pydon Watson's going. We don't know where Matharine's going. U My favorite free agent that's left is well, I have two Rui Hachimura Yeah And Simons. I think both of those guys. I really like Simons last year and Um, I think he's att least a ten to fifteen million dollars player. I thought there was a chance the Celtics would bring them back Um, and then Hachimura was surprised that wasn't the guy San Antonio got cur. Well there were exer on that bo are them. Do you do that, CiR, who makes more sense to buy a Cirus or a Ru? Ruie for what they what they have. Yeah. I mean, I think that San Antonio's probably Crokor no way better than me, but like a lot of their calculus has to do with what they expect bye. and Castle to be next season So how that relates to Ruy versus versus Tobias, I don't know. But it seems like it would have been an excellent addition. It's sort of strange that he's still out there. don't know, I don't know where he's going wind up And Ken Rich Williams is the other one that It's just clearly somebody that could be onene of your nine guys in the play offfficers. Like you might be your ninth guy He could be. So Ubre is out and then We're starting to get in the slim pickings range We'll see if somebody gives Tares a RFA, but for the most part, I guess so the biggest storyline left is what happened with Jayalen Brown, whyy they tradeed him And where where is where's Le Bron going? And then can Peyton Watson get some sort of deal somewhere that will force Denver's hand? But everybody's at a. How how long does the craziness go? Like Is there anything that could happen in the next three days that then triggers somebody else to be like, you know what? actually, I also want. I don't want to be here. you know, But I think that this felt like a fever for the last ten days and now we've sweat it out. We'll have the end of free agency going in hibernation You know what I really blame over everything else? me doing C arma posossible Yeah It was the first domino. I do see our month Within a month, the Celtics had blown a three month lead in a playoff series to the Sixers and then we're trading the Sixers Jayen Brown in a trade where we get Paul George back And it all starts with CigR mononth. It all starts much like Jwen and Jason. Siargget and then steering wheel for a month has just completely thrown the ringer apart. We also traded you AJ Brown into a football franchise in crisis Um, you know and and he thought he was going to go play for Vable. Is he going to play for Verel? I don't know. I mean, like it's there's a lot of things up in the air in Boston. You hate to see it It really is We lose the Mapleeaf's lottery pick Pf The Red Sox season has been in all time disgrace and just when things were getting better and we swipt the Yankees early goes out with elbow trouble M Grim times. It's also like one hundred and thirty degrees in Boston this week, apparently U Anyway, all right. Kurt Goldbury,oy the Joy the july fourth. CR. this was a true true pleasure. Thanks for being such a pro Thanks, brother. Thanks for jumping on here in the morning. Thanks to Gahow and Eduardo and Chris and everybody else at Spotify. I'm going to be back on Sunday at some point with some sort of live show. And then the next reatchables is going to be Ali, which is coming on Yeah onn Monday. You can watch that on Netflix actually the next five days, but that's Our ninth Michael Man movev is CR. I can't wait for people to hear it. I think if there's one lesson and one thing we want to leave people with as they headed to the july fourth, it's make sure you get your colonoscopy. Make sure you get it, but don't do it on july first U and then see our Possibility will go live Monday night after Tam years. We're talking we're talking about Jinxes, non Jinxes. All that stuff. Congrats on Hurricane U day Great day of football yesday. was really awesome. Legendary. Anyway. All right guys, have a great weekend. Thankks to everybody who watched Must be twenty one plus in President select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino Or eighteen plus in P president DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Ging probleom call one hundred gambler one eight hundred by reset. Call eight sevenenty nine seven seven seven seven or visit CcpG dot org slash chat in Connecticut or MD gamblinghelp dot orga in Maryland. Hope is here. 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