US Open Picks and Soccer Talk

This episode is brought to you by Holiday In by IHG If I'm ever traveling for work Where I stay is so important I actually really care about this because sometimes I even have to do a podcast and wherever I'm staying Um In general, I don't go on the road that much, but when I go on the road to be in a nice hotel with a nice room. I'm spoiled If you sound like me Check out holiday in It has a whole new energy, especially for business travelers. You'll see it everywhere from refreshed rooms to reimagined social spaces. Dining done right New drinks Dishes business, there are flexible spaces that work for the way. You were It's a new day. and a new stay at Holiday Inn Bill Simmon's podcast is brought you by PayPal. We're also brought to you by the Ringer podcast network where on the rewatchables, it is from Hell mononth. We've done single by female We just put up the hand that rocks the cradle. And then we have domestic disturbance and the good suun coming later this month, Domestic disturbance, John Chvalt to Vince Vau. That's going to be Monday's movie. That is one of the Funnier, unintentional comedy movies of the two thousands. Netflix has all of these movies if you miss them, including Pacific Heights, which they just added in mid June, which we are definitely doing overver the next few episodes, loveo that movie So check all that out. Don't forget about the Beautiful pod with Adam Friedlan That's on his Adam Friedlland feed U little special World Cup analysis and all kinds of stuff. Chris Ryan The original CR has been joining him as well. And then we had a bunch of A bunch of Ringer basketball podcasts if you didn't get nearly enough about the next winning, we're all over the place with the Ringer NBA show. the mismatch Max and Rich on Game overver. Ringer gambling show. it just keeps going and going. So we have the draft coming up I'm going to try to hit, I think I might do three podcasts this week. We might be going Monday, Wednesday, Friday this week and at least one of those will have a bunch of draft stuff. Today I want to have Joeouse on. U This has been the guy I've argued about with about historical basketball stuff the most over the past Almost forty years of my life. But we gott to talk about Jalen Brunson big picture I have great mail bag questions. I'm trying to figure out what the hell happened over these last two and a half months and how the NBA shifted And u and house is going to be my mailbag slash pyramid Soundy board because we got to figure out where Jayla Brunceet goes in the pyramid. So I'm excited It's all next. Can't wait. We're going to bring in Pearl Jam right after we take this break. Pject This episode of the Bill Smanons podcast is presented by PayPal You know a clutch move when you see one, a no look pass, a buzzer beater, a big steel. Well, imagine if your' a wallet pull off moves like that. my friends is PayPal. Right now you can find offers from hundreds of brands like Sony All birds and Vioter. and save offers before you check out. earn unlimited rewards. Plus you can add those rewards on top of credit card points Now that is clutch. Download the PayPal app today. Save those offers, start scoring rewards. Terms and exclusions apply. See payPal d. com slash rewards terms, credit card points subject to issuers terms and conditions It is Monday morning, nine o'clock Pacific time. My longtime buddy Joe House is here. We're going to do a mail bag. We're going to talk a lot of historical NBA pyramid stuff, which is the real reason you're here We're going to talk US Open near the end because you have a lot of thoughts picks. We are coming off Awesome Sports weekend. to Nicks and probably win the NBA title in five games and spurn a bunch of narratives. Spurn, Sur, Sur Spur No pun intended spur a bunch of bunch of big narrates that happened There's been a lot of draft buz. It's been a bunch of Yana stuff now. It feels like this Yanest thing is in full gear We had Peterson Basically saying he would only work out with your Washton Wizards and that's it We're going talk about that We had The Stanley Cup fininals, Carolina one, El Chipo Al Chipo cararrying the cup. We had this UFC White House event that everybody was pretty bummed out about and yet it had two of the most S shocking F fights in a row that I can ever remember in UFC where we had Perira and Taporia both lost. twowo of the best three fighters in the world Payer gu is ass kicked. And then Tporia looked like he was in a car accident by the end of the fight. It was that was great. And then we had a bunch of World Cups U Are you betting World Cup? Are you are we in danger zone here post NBA finals where you're just sprinkling stuff everywhere I mean, obviously yess the biggest lesson World Cup is any team that starts with the te, not Btingam. We were we're really relying on Tony Tkens. Every morning of this World Cup, we wake up. We hit up our guy the bundo. Tony Tkens what are we doing today with the World Cup So far, the biggest losers have been Turkey and Tunisia Yeah you too other that's it's hit my bank account in the wrong direction. So I'm not betndting any more countries that begin with the letter T. The T is is stands for taking it in the in the takeake my mud hammer. takeake my m. We we were talking about these u these top four NBA draft ods too, which has been like in the prediction market where and Fandal has some stuff too, but it's all over the place. It keeps moving around and then Peterson happened today where he basically said I only want to work out for Washington, but we're both convinced that Washington's going to take AJ to Bana with the first pick. This This to me is a situation now worth watching because if Utah takes booze or seconds I could honestly see Peterson being like, I'm not playing for Memphis. You guys are going to have to figure this out It's not happening Wow. why? Wh wouldnt that a long time? We have not. I mean, Steve Francis is famous and nineteen ninety nine or two thousand somewhere in there. Yeahah And then Maybe he tri tryed to go to the bulls. I don't know but I'm prepared for just about anything there. Then you have A cuff who seems like the most popular pick, but the Qippers have the fifth pick right after the top four And they don't need a point guard, but everybody's in love with A cuff. So that pick feels like it's for sale. There was u A trade rumorre going around the internet today about if there was going be a third team for this Yianas Boston trade, which I've been talking about on this podcast for a week and there I think would have to be a third team if Jalen's in it because what is puts Mwawke into a jailent I'd heard this too during the weekend. Could the clips the fifth pack move in there and be the third team. And then the second piece of this Would they then send Kawai to Miami as a consolation prize? And you're basically replacing Kawai with Jalin use the fifth pick The real story here is I'm not sure the Cooppers have anyone they love with the fifth pick. So we have basically a little over a week here bunch of crazy storylines in play. What's your team doing Where what's Uah doing at two Where is Peterson actually going? and does he want to go there? What happens from fifth pick on My favorite storyline, can the Warriors get somebody good at eleven? because it's basically a nine quer draft with Maron Ayman as like the wild cards that could go higher and push people down is okay. so you're going to try to trade a center This is about as fun as we've had for the eight days. So what's your favorite storyline AJ deana to the Washington Wizards. Of course, the number one overall pick' the only thing that I care about. It will be fascinating to see what what happens behind. I do really put some faith in the idea of Boozer to Utah. It just makes too much sense. And when some smart folks on the internet have started doing some, here's how the chemistry would work. And for sure the relationship between the Boozer family and the organization, that all we've all we're all familiar with that narrative aspect of it, but but the fit Wh Hardy is like the first time, this is the first time we're going to see Will Hardy Um, you know being able to actually coach for wins. Yeah a team to to wins, right Booer is a great fit there. So that that creates this jump ball situation and the thread this morning was moving, our little thread, our draft expertise. Yeah. I love the notion of Peterson to Chicago. It makes a ton of sense. Me too And for sure, Memphis, I think Wilson fits what Memphis wants. He kind of immediately fills the triple J role, doesn't There's a whole bunch of reasons why that makes sense, but we don't have Um precedent for teams swapping drap position without there being some kind of compensation. but the fit for both Chicago and Memphis, you know, those respective players make sense if they swap position. So couldn't they do something where it's like I wondered, what if Chicago offers Memphis A year's worth of Giorano's deep dish. What are like, you know, something because it's like I think it's like it would have to be three years or maybe open up a Giorano satellite deeep dish place in downtown Memphis. Fine. I have an easier trade for you. What if they just give them the fifteenth pick ? four and fifteen for three. ine We'll solve your Darren Peterson issue and Memphis can get four and fifteen and just take Kaylea Wilson, who might end up being a better part anyway. I like that for both sides So do I. The most fun NBA scenario is you guys take AJ Utah takes Boozer Um Peterson ends up in Chicago Memphis gets four and fifteen and takes Caleb Wilson And then Utah calls San Antonio. And they say, Heard you have a daring Fox problem We have a matching salary in Lurie Market in. But you're going to have to wet our beak H How about you tossing Carter Carter Bryant Maybe one of your future protected pigs And let's call it a day B get the market in post? The files ended and you were immediately in the trade machine. What time Saturday night were you in the trade machine? Be honest. It was after You The game finished at what time West Coast nine. Oh, you and Zach had to do the pod. No, we finished the pod and then Fx trade started pouring out of me Pus from open source.. That's. I'm Re with that direction. I thought it was other bodily fluids, but it all makes sense. Would Laurie Marketen have solved some of new some of the Santoni's problems in that twenty twenty six finals Look here's the problem that we're going to have for a little while. It is overreaction of the moment, all of the recency bias. I think quite a bit of the fox as the in the crosshairs kind of concept is really emblematic of who this Spurs team is and the fact that they arrive a year early. They just weren't ready. They weren't ready from top to bottom. They weren't ready conceptually. they weren't ready schematically. They weren't ready for in terms of the coaching. they weren't ready in terms of the personnel. They happen to run into The one team in the entire NBA where their youthful the speed Weemby's force, their their defensive intensity. they only ran there was only one team in the NBA that that could match them because New York to their credit, they showed up healthy. This was the single biggest underrated storyline because they swept the two previous teams that they faced in the East, they had so much time to get the very best version of themselves ready for these playoffs. Remember, Fox was missing games in these playoffs. It's not fair to me to be you know pinpointing Fox and c now for sure. we can look at the moments where he was not up to the task and you say, this he's supposed to be on this team. He's supposed to be the calming influence. He's supposed to be the guy that makes the intelligent high IQ basketball play at the end of these games and every one of these games that are so close it's crunch time and he's a previous crunch time winner. He's a guy who's with a demonstrated track record of success. But I think when we sort of start start taking some steps back, There is yet still He version of this Spurs team where we say we're a little more gracious about it. Like can we be generous and say that Mit Johnson and Derin Fox will get on the same page with the benefit of what they learned from that series and all of the assets that the Spurs possess coming into the next season. There's a version of the Spurs team like what do you think they' over under will open up at in terms of regular season wins? Well, they're the neighor these Yeah, no be in his sixties. You know, I didn't really realize this until Sunday as I was going through all the clips and stuff and watching the post game interviews It does feel like the fundamental issue with the Spurs. And by the way, all the stuff you said about the sppurs about, hey, if they just lost I said that on Saturday if they just lost Game seven and OKC We don't have any of this stuff and we're fine with the spurs and it's a successful season I do want to point out you were very mean about the New England Patriots who made the Super Bowl, and it was the same scenario And I don't remember you making that defense for my patriots don I don't understand. It's a radically different sport and not I was on the correct side. It a young team that got to the Super Bowl and maybe would have been better off losing in the AFC title game, which I said, but you didn't want to hear it. You just I just cousin sals Drake M jokes. All I did was win money. I lik betting against the Patriots. I like winning money Watching all this stuff the next day And then thinking about the series more, looking at the minutes I do think the fundamental issue with this sppurs, they had two issues One is whenby is a thirty minute a game guy who cannot play forty. I think we've learned that in the playoffs. He's going to have was That's who he is right now. That's who he is right now. He's going to have to figure that out over the next five years. R R. How can I handle being on the court more than twenty nine to thirty minutes a game? That's one issue The other is the harper issue and You saw it in game five Who got the card keys near the end of game five, It was Harper. It was the first time you saw them do that all the series where He got the he brought it up. there running stuff through him And I just think they were afraid to do that the whole series. Fox played more minutes than him. Fox played thirty six minutes points a game. All his stats were terrible. Um and then had a couple big brain farts. I think he was afraid to shoot by the end of the series. likeike he couldn't in threes. Harper wasn't much better on Threes, but at least wasn't afraid to take them. and I think fundamentally that was almost a bigger issue than the Wimby thing is that They had this issue, but did you hear of a cell said it was like that. he He talked about Harper and he's like, this is a tough year for him. He had to go down the G League at one point You know, he was he did. He was not happy about his minutes. It was the first time he was kind of like Yeah, Harper wanted to play more and was ready to be this guy. Harper's attitude during that finals was I'm here. I'm ready I'm ready for all of this And Mit Johnson was afraid to kind of tell Fox to go sit in the passenger seat and that was a big issue for them Sure. And you know what? everythingvery you just said That's fine great. All of that is part of the maturation process, the growing up process. L the minutes thing, you know, Zach Low and Sean Fenasy an extraordinary podcast Sat Sunday night that I enjoyed listening to very much.' up right now on the Ringer podcast network Um, you know, made the point about the the U a capacity of the Kicks to play all forty eight minutes and that that was an advantage that they possessed over the spurs. Well, the spurs losing steam in the second half and especially in the fourth quarter running out of energy. That's a skill. That's not about like the conditioning of the spurs versus the conditioning of the Kicks It's a skill. You have to learn it. You have to learn through these kinds of playoff reps, how to allocate that that energy, where to save energy. And I thought, you know, we saw an experiment happening in real time in quite a bit of the strategizing that the Spurs undertook that Mitch Johnson undertook. We saw it in game five. He took Weemby out with five minutes left in the basketball game for Christskes How is that? What are we doing? L we know what the Cornet Minutes produed, but look, this was to me, a giant success for the purers. L, you know, like they have nothing to to really resent or regret other than like, we're just quite not. ready and there's really only one team in the NBA that could could, you know, really take advantage of it I never think it's a giant success if you could actually win the title and you didn't the Patriots were had no chance to win the Super Bowl against the Seahawks, right? And that put me in that mode of ah man, I just wish we lost in Denver. San Antonio. They led for, I think set what was it seventy two percent of the series They led by double digits in all five games. So what? they led in the last two minutes of the game hang a banner all those des on it. Do't I have good mailbag questions about this, but one of them I'm going to read now. this is from Timothy Closest friend was supremely confident in every juncture of the NBA finals The spur iss losing He said in the first quarter of game five The sppurs are like drunk teenagers who eventually black out. lot of early stamina It's totally true. G, you want to be Yagerbuster shots? Yeah Let's go then by eleven o'clock people are throwning up in the bushes. That wit that wasn't Timothy Chalamay. No it was not Timothy Challam. Okay, just check it. Now it was the spelling. he ended the spelling with a Y. Okay good.. So I think you're right in the sense of, hey, let's not overreact But I do think this Harper thing I think he has to start next year and I think he needs to drive the car and if I'm them I'm looking getting out of this fox thing if I can. because the other trade and people were sending a bunch of different trades and you could do like, oh, we'll get Rando for a year in different chans. I like there's all kinds of Whatever's. Porter from the nets as an expiring for Fox was one that got sent to me a few times. and that one made me go, huh because you have the NTets who You know I don't think they want to be rebuilding for the rest of the twenty twenty is they just had the entire city got officially taken away from them. They're irrelevant And you know, could you could you do that trade and then trade this sixth pick for a star and just try to be like, we're here. We have good players now. My only pushback on that is that the porter expiring should be more valuable than the next five years of Fox at fifty five to. Or you say you're buying l of Fox, a guy who two years ago was averaging twenty five points a game are you may was just on the wrong team? I don't know. that he's in his late twenties. You could say he was h during the playoffs, lost his confidence're buying low But I thought that was interesting The idea of him being on the wrong team would suggest that uh, he's not a winning player. It would he's on he should be on exactly the right team. It should be the spur should be the right team. They have this opportunity this summer to like, lessons learned and take that right you and I have been following basketball our whole life This Fox harper thing is not going to end well. I'm sorry. It's just won'.'d I'd be shocked if it's like, hey, we figured it out It three regard rotation like Detroit in the late eighties Look at all these good numbers when Fox and Harper played together. I just I don't see it. I think Harper is that special What we saw from him in the playoffs was about as high of a level from a twenty year old guard as we've seen. Magic being a ten out of ten Kobe You know, in the in the two thousand was Kobe? I forget how old he was in the two thousands finals. I think it was somewhere around twenty That's that's the top of the pyramid, someome of the stuff Harper was doing. was wasn't there, but it was at least sniffing in the vicinity of it. And I thought in game five, I thought that had a chance to be his masterpiece It was like we've sly fo the series He went all the way to the hole the lay up in the last two minutes that he missed. I mean, he was there. He did the thing. He got all the way there. He you me to. He wasn't afraid at all. I love the defense he was playing on Brunson. Brunson was baking big shots on him So yeah, we I'm interested to see what happens with Fox And then you have The honest piece, which people have been reporting now for T days like The reason this stuff gets out, if it's just Boston and Milwaukee and they're talking about stuff Very unlikely stuff gets out If and for the aggregators, I am saying if If Jayen Brown was the piece being dangled for Janis And Milwaukee is like, well, we don't need Jayalen Brown. what could we get for him? That's how stuff gets out That's where youre get in trouble. That's when you start calling these different teams, including the Cippers U I do wonder though if there's a The Cippers thing feels a little real to me because Um I don't know who they know who I don't think they have any idea who they should take in five I think that's a real issue because they just invested in Garland and the next three guys at five are all point guards. So you can take a point guard there You have to do something at five I like the idea of the clippers taking a big swing. They want to stay in the mix. for sure Balmer and the front office there. They've shown, you know, the willingness to go ahead. like look at what they did preceding this trade deadline. Those are big swings. James Harden and Zubbach those that's a front office that's like We know we got to do something. There's a reset. So Kawi is an element of the next step of the reset certainly makes sense to me But they are retooling, not rebuilding. and how can they play a role feels like Milwaukee wants a full rebuild, right? They want to come up with with some combination of draft picks and or very young players, you know, players brand new to the league Is the clliippers the right conduit to that? I mean, it feels like there needs to be a fourth team on Let me ask you, do you think if you're the Clippers and you have Kawi and you have Garland and you have a L little more of a veteran team. You're probably on a little bit of a shelf wipe with Kawi, not just contractually, but just with him as an impact guy is thirty four Um If you were able to turn that fifth pick in Jalen or somebody like Jayalen. Is the fifth pick worth more or less than that because I think you could make a case Jaylen being one of the top twel players in the league. secondecond team on MBA last year coming off a career year is probably worth more than the fifth pick by himself When the eipper is actually that's it's an impossible contract. That's the thing that how could the three years It's three years like sixty million a year, basically The Cippers are under the cap now. they Garland's at like thirty six, thirty seven, Kawai is close to a max, but they have They matharin, don't they? They have Or just let them go. orr he's in the trade You know, interesting I still like matharine And if you're the bucks and you Like could I sell that to my fans that I traded Yonest, but I got And I said the tenth pick. now I have five and ten in an awesome draft. Is that enough Well you and I both love Bayff probably the most on Boy feel like they're naked, by the way, there's a lot of buzz on him just killing these workouts and teams being like, holy shit We need one or two more assets for Milwaukee I agree. I feel like. Well, we'll see what happens I'm really excited to see how all of this plays up. This is great. What a Monday after the finals. Let's go U We're going to take a break. We're going to come back and we're going to talk about Jaylen Bronson pyramid right after this This episode is brought to you by Ubers This summer soccer is here at the watch parties will be spectacular and they'll be going every day back to back to back. Don't worry Ubers says your game day essentials covered thirty percent off offers from Aldi roger dollar general Oh yeah All the stacks and groceries to keep your crowd happy delivered. straight to your door. chips stips, wings fresh ingredients for the perfect game dayay spread. order in so you can stay locked in on the game, all the hosting None of the hassle Order now for thirty percent off your game day snacks and grocery order only on Uber Eats for a limited time Offer eligible for thirty percent off entire order, taxes, fees and terms apply offer valid through july fifth Product availability varies by region Exclusions may apply All right, so I wrote my basketball book in two thousand nine, spent three years on it. Joe House was one of my conciliaries and one of the gimmicks which was an idea initially from my buddy Gussa's dad, Wally Ramseay, still kicking it in his mid nineties. shhout out to Wally who always thought the Hall of Fame should be a pyramid. I wrote a columem about this. I wrote another colum about this eventually built the basketball around it. fiveive levels and as the levels go higher and higher We then get the true true flavor of who mattered the most, with the top level being the pantheon Um Biggest thing as we talked about all this stuff. tryrying to figure out why guys matter, why Pople should have been underrated, overrated. ust trying to measure impact Could you win a title with this guy We always gravitated to the actual titles. Did this guy carry a team to a title Did this guy do everything it took? Would you rather have fifteen years of somebody who was really, really good and made a bunch of all NBA teams and brought it to the precipice, but you couldn't win a title if he was your best guy. Or would you rather have a shorter window. with somebody who his peak You could win the title with them And we always gravitated to that as we talked about it. And that's why somebody like Bill Walton who really had You know, the seventy seven Blazers run they win the title. He's the NVP of the next year even though he gets here near the end. He's hurt for the rest of his career And then is the sixth man on the eighty six Celtics. So has basically three moments And I still had him in the top thirty five in my book. I can't remember where he landed exactly, but it was like I know for that one year, Bill Wall and I can win a title with him. N name of Jelen Brntson. Wh's never been a first team on andB a guy had no MVP votes this year at all And yet he just dragged the team to the NBA title house He did something that a bunch of great guards were never able to do. He did something that James Harden as a starter on his own team never even made the finals and fell short over and over again Steve Nash, who was an unbelievable player two time MVP U through no fault of his own could never quite get the team there Ca finally did it in the twenty twenty one finals late in his career, but they lost Jason Kid two straight finals, but he lost and then finally gets one later as a as a role poour starter in Dallas Brunson did was up there with Duanne Wade in two thousand six. U It was up there with Walt then seventy seven you can go on through, but we're just dragging a team to the finals. And he is somebody that I never in a million years would have thought. would make the pyramid I sent you piece of as I keep always work on the rankings I'm going start here. I think he has to be one of the top fifty pers of all time though And I don't agree it's debatable So your initial thoughts on that Yeah. so I want to gently push back. You said twice that he dragged the team to the Now I'm not that we have to recognize the greatness of Carl A Tony Towns, the contribution of secret know one of the best secret teams we've had in a long time. Yes, conceding all that, but you know what really helps Anytime they were down in the end of games down nine down ten, down fourteen, Jayalen Brunson would just figure out how to get offense for them and not just figure out by design. like this is part of the brilliance of the front office of Leon Rose and Worldwide West in assembling a team and ultimately arriving on a Jalen Brunton centric End of game phenomena and It's truly a phenomena. I didn't I couldn't get in touch with the Ringer reesearch staff to go back to the point where we measure, okay, all the guys are together. How many times did this group in this combination come back from double digit deficits in a second half and win games in the regular season and in the playoffs. but we do know that in these playoffs, they went six and two, the greatest accomplishment in play in a playoff run in terms of being down double digits and coming back and winning games in the playbout one of the great l bet teams in the history of any sport Exactly right. He was the leading scorer on a team that had the best point differential in playoff history. The leading scorer was Jayalen Brunson and the Nicks are standan are on top of that that mountain Uh well G go ahead No no, it's good I was going to say that a big part of my book which was basically the premise of it was Isaiah saying, the secret of basketball is it's not about basketball. It's about all the other stuff. It's about selflessness. It's about putting ego aside. It's about how you connect with your teammates, the chemistry you have your ability to galvanize everybody around you. Brunston had all of this and yes. in one of the best possible ways as a guard truly don't think he had ego and what was I think he just wanted to win And he wanted to prove everyone wrong and he didn't care how they did it. But over and over again, He was their best option because he was the guy over and over again who could create the best offense for them And he got better when it mattered. He never got tired. He played thirty nine minutes a game in the finals as a small guy The stuff that he did was inconceivable And what he did in game five I'm just gonna to say it, like the more I look at it and stare it, I think it is one of the great finals games. You know, Jordan Game six ninety eight is the greatest game I've ever seen anyone play when you consider Pippenss hurt, Rodmins a mess. like you basically he had to control the pace and every moment of that game and then what he did in the last minute basket steel basket to end it Bruns the thing was pretty close. Like Twn's being in foul trouble covering OG on on the corner Threes and there were multiple moments where the game was going to get away from them and he just wouldn't let it happen. And especially in the second half, he was just like, all right, I'm just going to keep scoring and let us hang around and the spurs are going to fold. So I value that more than anything. And maybe I overrate it with the pyramid, but you seem to agree with me Of course, I mean this is the funny thing the league invented an award, the clutch player of the year for as a regular season award It's only been around for four years. He he won it. I mean, he's one of the four guys that won it. not the Aaron Fox did win it also. So I don't know. Yeah but it's regular season. you know it is regular season, but this is we one of the themes of when we've gotten together Um, you know, we've talked about this is the DNA of of this particular Ns team, the particular run that they are on. They just never concede anything in any kind of deficit second half. It doesn't matter. And that's a regular season and post season for this team And the tip of the spear is Brunson. We really haven't seen A guy that fits his his to your point, his stature, but but also I mean he's in that class of of who do you trust to go get a bucket right now or to make the best basketball play right now. his thirty foot shot over Weemby at the end of game four was the right basketball play. him getting that shot up immediately created an advantage for the Nicks that they he recognized it as the te double team came over as Fox came over to double That created an advantage like even a miss shot is the right basketball play. and that's the thing that we're we're looking for a historical how do we put him in a place in the history of the league amongst the all time greats and where you have him feels right to me. Probably the toughest guy in the league Is that fair? S's tougher guy in the league right now I mean, he did withstand some injury scare at the very beginning of the series and you know maybe Weby getting in his landing space in game five. It's just like I think that guy could have had you know, a high ankle sprain, whatever and he just would have been like, I'll deal with it later. Um he's the mentally toughest guy in the league. which You know, I think Cry is up there. There's been some great players over the years, but for right now the mantle of I just trust him the most. It doesn't matter where he's playing U on top of taking the responsibility of fifty three years, which is like, When this happened for the Red Sox It was really Ortiz. Right. And it was a bunch of guys and there were a million heroes in that from Derek Low to even Curtis Loscanic coming in and getting three outs at the perfect time. But it was ultimately Ortiz and the entire Red Sox fan base going This makes no sense. We lose all the time. We haven't won in eighty six years. somethingomething bad's going to happen. The other shoe is going to drop. We're going to get kicked in the teeth and just kind of looking over at Ortiz and being like But he doesn't seem scared And we have this guy and the Yankee fans seem scared of him. and that's what Brunson did for this next team likeike as great as OG was and we'll talk about him in the mailbag Towns, bridges, like bench guys, everybody chipped in, which was a great thing about this team, but ultimately to flip history You have to have a guy who's just completely different. and So when I think of them historically Even though he's never been in a top five ball and be a guy. Um, I think he has to be in the top fifty now. and What gets interesting is when you start comparing him. So I got an email from Harry who said, did he just, did Jayalen just set the record for biggest historical leapfrog in NBA history What was the biggest jump? in one post season Um Really you have to say by an older player. Brunson's been in the league eight years So I think One guy I was thinking was Kawai in twenty nineteen. I'm told you of course, of course you and I immediately. That's that's the first guy that comes to my mouth is Kawai in twenty n amazing. becauseuse I wouldn't had to I wouldn't have had I don't think Kawai in the pyramid. R It have been in the honorable mension with a chance. sureure. But then that twenty nineteen playoffs seent and it's like, well, he's now in the top forty. I got to figure out the rankings now because this is what he just did was nuts. Yeah Finals NVP for two different teams. D dragged He dragged Toronto. Oh yeah. Well, Dirk's the best example U for a late late career guy his dd was in the nineteen ninety seven draft He won that finals in twenty eleven. So he's year fourteen I had them thirty ninth in my book. which was d you which came out before twenty eleven title, right Then he wins the title. It's like, Well, now you're moving up, buddy Here I have a little I have a little suite right underneath the pethouse for you. So he's, you know, I think I have him in the twenty one twenty two range now And then You have the younger guys like SGA that they win the title. they jump up, but that's a little more common Brunson thing I wouldn't I wouldn't even had him on hormable mention until these playoffs. Like I understand. Yeah. he just I mean, he didn't have the credentials yet Right? and He's only halfway through his career. I mean, he's only twenty nine. He should play another seven or eight years. There's a chance to bump it Yeah So just enhancing the overall career resume So if you go in the top fifty, where just so people know like there's Clyde Drexler I have in the mid fifties, Gary Payton. These are guys that were the best player in finals teams who had a bunch of all NBAs and really good careers. But we just had a lot of players since I did the book we've had you know, almost two decades worth of more seasons and more great players In level three So goes level one, level two, level three which was no doubt about at Hall famamers who ranked among the best for a few years with every requisite resume statistic to match No MVP winner can drop below level three unless there's a fantastic reason. Unfortunately, that's stere growross. Ped Iverson at fifty two. who I think you and I ride for maybe a little more than others historically, but It's really just the two thousand one playoffs and Re no success post season wise other than that But you go down and there's this whole bunch of guards that Brunson is in the middle of now historically Lua Dantch Hm, George Garvin. James Harden Sam Jones, so I'm going to ride for it to the death because he was the best big game guard. of of the first basically forty years of the league other than Jerry West Jason Kid Steve Nash And we Frasier I have all those guys in the forties and you could argue about the order, but they're all there. They all have they all NBAs. Frasier has the seventy and seventy three finals Frasier was top five first five first team on Bay four times Nash had the two NVPs Kid was an NVP runner up but dragged those two nets teams to the finals, which matter. then he won a title and was Jason Kid was just awesome. likeike ye. The stats aren't to be kind to him because of the three point shooting and the field goal percentage, but we were there made threees it would be a three point shooting percentage thing to knock him, but made threees is the top five in the history of the R. But for years he was twenty nine percent thirty percent. And he was the best defensive player of all these guys other than Frasier Sam Jones was ten championships Um He had He had three he had Obiious. Oh there it is three top tenens U the key guy in those wrestle teams in the sixties because they needed somebody to basasically do the Brunston at the end of the games hard and gets Pard of was MVP s time runner up MVP Six top five three thirteen Mers. He was running up for MVP three times And Average thirty six a game winner. His statistical resume is just overwhelming. and it's basically the Carl Malone situation I don't know what to do H harden Yeah. well, I mean, here's the thing U and I spent some time with what's what do they call basketball reference now? Is it basketball stathead stat headad Statad as Yeah, it's part of basketball reference. Yeah If you side by side, James Harden And Charles Barkcley you would be prized I think we've had Now twenty five or thirty years of Charles in our lives and the cultural force. He's an icon. He's an NBA and I have an icon. I have Barkeleay much higher than these guys. did the record. Yeah, he was in you did the twenties for me when I did the book Right It's going to be tough. I think as as we try and process the NBA. from the kind of the this this era And going forward What do we do with the player like James Harden and how do you contextualize his inability He's only been the one finals. It was he's coming off the bench for Oklahoma City. Yeah you never He never made the finals as a starter He was w one in four in conference finals in general He's seventeen and seventeen in playoffsers One of the conference finals he made benched him against the Cippers in game six and came back with the bench guys when the game was over. likeike he was about to get bounced in that, but You know, this is one of those cases where sadly we were there Right The physical resume was was there, but Ultimately, the number one value we have with all this stuff is How did you perform when it truly mattered Did you understand the secret? Could you elevate your team around you? And he just could never do it Re at any point in his career Barkley is a good example because the ninety three sons Um, They come as close as you're going to get to winning the title and they lose to the best part of all time who that is absolute fucking apex That's the only reason he didn't win the title. And I don't know how much I can hold that against him because I don't feel like I feel like he did everything possible in the finals and we know what happened. Kevin Johnson stunk in those first two games That's why they lost the finals. B wh kind of rarely beat question with Harden, and obviously you and I share the same. perspective on him. we've watched it. Like he was he was there present for us in all of our Uh, NBA Hoops fandom. You know, he's been in our lives for so long W, will history B more gracious towards him. Like it like it's happening with Car Mullan right now. basketball has not personality person has Yeah. Yeah. Well right because the era in which Harden Harden in the West against the teams that he went up against not being able to topple Golden State, you know, catching the end of of the Spurs run, you know, is it can we legitimately in responsibility on him for the for his inability to takely canon eighteen and nineteen Okay Um because eightain was sitting there for them and they didn't win and basically because he didn't do the j had the Jaylen Brensson game. Neen durants out Yeah and they have six at home against Curry Curry has what two points in the first half or one point. I can't remember and Golden States ready to be taken down and they just couldn't do it The fundamental question here because George Gervin's another one. I have him and Harter right next to each other Very similar careers And Gervin's big moment was the nineteen seventy nine Eastern confonerence finals against your beloved Washington Bullets three one in the series and can't close them. and if he gets to that gets to that finals probably favored to to beat Seattle at that point and they win the t. like it's it's a plete whatever. But fundamentally this comes down to this You're the you're a Whington fan I'm giving you the ability. you can have Harden or Brunson for their entire careers from what you've just witnessed whichich guy would you rather have? And we don't know how it's going to end with Brunson. He's only been in the league eight years But your whole goal is I just want to win the title. Are you taking James Hard or you' taking Jayalen Brunson? I mean, it's no brainer. It's easy. Flags fly forever. The only thing that matters is the chip. That's why the pyramid is tilted the way it's tilted. You have to have the rings and it's not just, you know, Brunson delivering it like it would be really curious how we would regard Iverson Iverson took a team that that really, you know, when you look back at that sixers team like, wow, look at the surrounding cast here built around all his strengths and weaknesses. Right. right. If they had somehow pulled something out, that, you know, that Brunson's a different cat, a different animal. all together. He is such an important element of that cohesive team that the Kicks And yet when there's six minutes left in the game and the Nicks could be down a dozen points You never, never, never think for a second that they don't have a chance to win as long as that dude has the ball in his hands and he's he's more healthy than not. You know what got lost in the Brunson celebration over these last two weeks. He was the one that got the ball in game two and Wby threw it off Castle's back and got Wemby to Fallom Yes, like that The thing one of the things with Brunson that ever rememember he missed one of the free throws, but go ahead. Yeah, he did But one of the things I appreciate about him is it's like, you got to pick on Brunson pick on Brunson muchuch like Jason Kid and some of these other dudes is actually like sometimes an asset defensively. likeike he's fucking annoying to play against. He's taking charges all the time He's getting steals. he's in in the right spots, but you look at his is four year four years in the playoffs now. twenty nine a game This is four years across the board like a lot of playoff games, twenty nine a game, twenty six finals. he was thirty three, four and five. thirty nine point two minutes a game. Um It's just better than anything James Harden ever did and it was a higher level than anything James Hard never did. and I'm sorry. And I just if I could have either career for the same reason out or when I did my book, I would rather have Bill Walton. just so I could get those peakks versus David Robinson's entire career. I just would because at least my only thing I want is a title. and I just know that if I have that guy, I have a better chance than That's not Ring's culture to me. It's more like that that's why I'm not discounting Barcleay because I don't feel like Barcley did everything he could have done and they probably should have won the nine and three finals And he went against a fucking comment that we've never seen in our lives. That's the only reason he win Car Malone went against that same older version of the comment. and really fucked up in both finals. and not to mention some of the other stuff that happened. it's hard to separate that from his from his history So I do value that stuff because the only goal is to win the title. I don't care about your career I care about your career in the context of did it produce championships and chances to win championships Brunson I don't know. that so I have them at forty which I sent to you My only quibble because it was in the vicinity of the Bill Walton range and I think that's fair to P him near him. You had him one spot ahead of Frasier I did I I think they should at least be tied. until we get a little more I'm happy to flip them. This is why I wanted to have you on. So you'd put So that this opens the Different conversation because greatest Nick of all time should probably have the higher pyramid ranking, right Sure. and let's I'm all yours. I'll listen to everybody, all the smart folks that will be doing this greatest mix of all time. It is appropriate for that conversation to be had. Now you you saw Rick Brunson do the well, Patrick Ewingss the greatest Nick when that was that was nice. that's a, you know, I understand the gesture. He's not that that they're making their here. So the thing with Frasier, two titles not one Played one of the great game sevens ever in nineteen sevententy. so he matches Bruunson there thirty five and nineteen. I think he had six deals like demolished Jerry West And then, uh, you know, was probablyrobably the best defensive guard of first thirty five years of the league, notot to mention all the other stuff. hisis career was shorter because everyone's career was shorter back then. Like I'd love to see The guys now Do you think LeBron would have played twenty How many years he have too? twenty three Its playing twenty three years in converse with no versalimber and flying coach? Guess what? He's not So you got to factor that in too. All right. I'm fine with Frasier over Brunson But Brunson has a chance to pass him with a couple more seasons. He's standitting right there. He's only halfway through his career. Let's let him get there. So they' cle now Yeah, go ahead Adam above Nash kid, Sam Jones, Harden Kvin and Luca What's wrong with that I'm just for the audience. Okay And for Luca, The regular season resume is tremendous Yes He did make a finals. He did. He is the second highest career playoff. Average of all time, thirty point nine points a game Um He's six first team on bays already and has a chance to if he can put it together for one year U move into the top twenty twenty five. And it will be a combination of him and the right circumstances. I mean, You know, it shouldn't be lost that that that the Brunson Um place in the pyramid is Testament to that his the the front office of the Ks. taking the swing that they took. He wouldn't be in this place without the context And just if people think this is reactionary or whatever. like this is how I did the book. Like I had Duayne Wade I Thinking the top forty, maybe even top thirty five just because of what he did in the two thousand six finals. like sure That's it. Like you get a major bump if you pull that off on the biggest stage and you help drag your team to the title. So there's some centers ahead of ahead of Frasier and Brunson Just because I think the center position was more important for a longer period of time with the league, Cowens, Willis Reid. David Robinson and Walon Berry. So I do have by the pyramid rankings Willis Reid as the best nick ever But I don't know if I'm right I just know from he was the MP, the league, Frasier and Brunson were never MPs of the league. He went against all of these great centers during a time when You basically couldn't win the title or compete for one unless you had an awesome center. He's going against Karem and Will and all these dudes like He kind of had to have that. So have the Cowins Read, Robinson, Bill Walton on a row And then the two cards I have ahead of All these guys And I gott to look at John Stockton again because I'm trying to decide if I overrated him a little in my book, but I Right now I' have stocked in thirty four and Chris Paul thirty three because of how long and ridiculous their careers are U and they were in finals and really guys I You know, I thought had some bigger moments than James Harden, but that that gets that's where it gets tough. James Harden versus Stockton versus Chris Pa with Chris Paul Really that twenty one finals changed Chris Paul's leegacy by about ten, twelve spots. and appropriately so Um I do think when you sit down and do the side by side of Harden and Stockton It's really close It's a very like they're they're um Whatever the comparability score is, like they they're really close to those two When I did when I did the book I wrote about I wrote about Stockton why he couldn't get to level four, why he was in level three And I think you're mentioned in this because It was like, here's the thing. he he probably shouldn't be this high Where did I have him had him Jesus, there is item twenty five in the book U And I made all the cases for why maybe he shouldn't be there. then it was the experience of watching him and how great he was and how he would always like just Pick his run the team, get everyone else involved for three and a half quarters and then pick his spots and was a fucking assassin. It was like assassin. I just don't feel like the stats reflect that the way he kind of carried the team and you just kind of always knew he was lurking and you always thought he was going to come through when it mattered I wonder if if going back Miss Are we misreembering how effective he was in the clutch versus Carl Malone M s possible. But this is what the tough the further we get away from this stuff We always felt like Stockton was the good guy in that team and Carl Malone was the one you could get the forty four minutes out of and you didn't trust the last four. We were probably too hard on Carl Malone. I mean, I created the whole forty two club so he would be discounted By the way, Wendy they missed a forty two club A surprised? No Um either. Brunson u Brunson didn't get there, but really hard for guards to get there because they other events. All right. So Jayalen Brntson forty one in the pyramid. Unbelievable G Wlcome the Fandal odds have been on that before the before the playoffs. They wouldn't have given us os, you know, one hundred fifty thousand to one I'm going to take one more break, and then we're doing a mailback This episode is brought to you by State Farm Countless hours in the gym, a thousand shots before tip off day after day in the same court The state fararm stanchion right there That's right. the best players put in the work and state Farm is the same way with insurance experts put in the work as well, whether you get a digital quote, or reach out to a local agent. State Farm is there to get to know you. and help you select the right coverage that fits your life and your budget Putting the work is what separates the good players from the great and that's why you want state fararm on your team So get the coverage that's right for you Like a good neighbor, state Farm is there. 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Visit Chevy dot com slash trucks to explore the lineup All right, mail bag, theseese are actual questions from actual listeners. BS podcast thirty three at gmail d. com if you want to send one in. Thanks to everybody who s seent stuff in. Oh it was really fun stuff to go through Matt from New York wants to know Jalen Brunson now has the number one Jalen spot unlock There are four J Os on all NBA teams requesting you to stop calling Jayalen Brown, just Jaylen during podcast because It's too confusing So he's basically making the argument. We have all these Jayals The only Jayen now should be Jayalen Brunson and then everybody else. We should say their last names. But Jayalen Williams is J D Yeah. Jaylen Brown becomes JB Jaywin Johnson now becomes Jaywin Johnson or double J Jayen Durren's just Jayen Duran and Jayen Green's Jaylen Green. I'm fine with this. I think Jayalen Rinson has assumed control of the name Jayalen, along with everybody Jayalen Rose Well the original jail and mean, there's always there's only one OG. That's the original jail in jail in Rose Sure, fine. can I can subscribe with this. I feel like U Daleen Brown's been JB. for a little while now anyway. It's been convenient to call him But Alpha Jalen is Jalen Brunson. It's undeniable. My wife calluss him Buntson murder Brunson Burner. Okaykay? Because when she would ever watch the finals and they would be down like nine and she'd like, did the Brunson Burner heat up yet? I was That's pretty. Really good Joel, Oh I didn't send you any of these, so you're reacting to these in the moment Joel wants to know The answer is most likely still no now it's more interesting Brson winning Championship fininals NP Is Dallas letting him walk now a worse decision in trading L? What your case. It is. U a diabolical mismanagement to not get anything back to have not Nobody in the entire league forecasted this version of Brunson and think about all of the pieces that had to be put into place for us to achieve and realize this version Brunson count. We thought it was ridiculous in the moment that they were' paying Brunson. We did. It four years for fifty five million. They should have done it without blinking. but the f are they doing That's right, mismanagement. Yes. It was a colossal blunder. Luca trade led to Cooper flag. What did the Brunson trade lead to or Brunson leaving Uh Luca No Brunson led to eventually trading a first pick for K made the finals after he left because that's because Brunson left. they went and traded for Kyrie. So that would be the case. I still think Luke is worse Lu's worse. because here's the thing. they didn't, as we've discussed a hundred times, they didn't shop the Luca trade is what made it horrible. And they didn't shop it because if it came out, their fans would have rioted it That should be Alone, why that's worse Their fans did riot too. theirir fans weren't rioting after Jayen Brunson left, but they were upset that it was been wereet Yes. The Luucca trade led to actual Dallas almost shly down as a city. The Lague had to give Coop give them the number one overall pick. The league's fault though Don't look at him He was in charge of not giving Brunson the four for fifty five He hired Nico Harrison. He did that, who then traded Lua Donich with the new owners that Mark Cubin sold the team to. But none of it's his fault. I don't know how all this happened le So he's that an unbelievable spin jap. Reed wants to know He said during the playoffs this year that Brunson isn't a top five player The Nicks built a perfect roster around him compleimmenting his offense while compensating for his defensive ations A there any other players on your you can't win if that guy is your best player list that you'd reconsider in that Brunson leted title team? So I will say this I didn't have a Brunson as a top ten as a top five player. But I do now, I handed in Ringer one hundred and I had him fourth I didn't put him ahead of Weemby and Joker and SGA, but you could make a case that he should have been. I thought four seemed fair Um It also was fair over the course of the regular season. I went back and looked at just the season rankings a handful of times where we're sharing lists and comparing notes and stuff. You had him ten at different points during the regular season. you had him twelve at a moment or two eight to twelve range for It was all fine. Yeah. and he, you know, would he end up making the second team all NBA or did he make third second team? Yeah team because that's a couple. But yeah,s that's all fair U So you can't win if that guy is your best player. The only names I wrote down were Devin Booker and Jaylen Brown Oh wow I went through the ring of one hundred and I was trying to figure out, because The natural inclination of this is like, could you win a title now with Trey Young? It's like, I don't think so Um I think is this is at the moment. this right now not not the moment not we're not talking about two years ago or king because I I mean Ian. I was going to include Joell andbed, but that's obviously ludicrous now I think I think that's okay. I think you could include that because that would seem improbable now, but also conceivable Jalen as the guy because ultimately what we're talking about here is I have a good team built around this one Central force Wh will be able to get me baskets when I need them the most. This is the reason this spurs the woman They couldn't get baskets when they needed them the most. Ultimately, that's why they lost Booker, I thinks a really good one because I think his stock has slipped a little bit M And u And I'm sure Phoenix is now looking at what just happened with the Nicks being like, we could do this here with Book. We could build the same type of team over the next two, three years Chemistry, the secret. We just learned the secret from Kevin Durant and Bradley Bele, what not to do And let's build a team round booker and he can be our Brunson The only other one I was mildly intrigued by, but feel free to talk me out of this in two seconds, Shengoon I think he's good enough That's where I landed. But I had a conversation I thought about it in my head. I think I think that's the best kind of asset guy right now who I feel like somebody could get. Like if I was Milwaukee, I would be looking at him. I thought he was in the worst possible state. He had no fucking' point card last year a team that had no three point shooting and had Kevin Durant with a burner scandal and it will always go down as one of the most curious set of decisions by the Houston Rockets for a team that was that seemed so prepared Yeah coming into the season and as soon as FVV got hurt over the over the summer, It's like they went into some kind of down mode. I don't understand it. Like You had a catastrophic thing happen. you were completely loading up You have the head coach in place Uh we emay, you you brought Duran in This is the same. They had to rain in. so why are you tossing away the ear Right Just nothing. We're just gonna tread water and see if we can pull something out of our butts Shang to me. He turns twenty four in July Last season he was twenty, nine and six assists a games shot fifty two percent without a point card. I don't know. I feel like there's plus two picks to Milwaukee. Now you're talking. Like reminder to to if I'm Milwaukee, I'd rather have Shengoon and other stuff for honest and that Weird Miami offer It's like, here's a bunch of our guys' a forty one win team and some non lottery non top ten pigs. There's literally nothing coming out of Miami that's of any interest whatsoever. Like I love Bam. Bam's good, but It's that's a bad. That's an average basketball. Hilwaukee called you and said, Shengoun for Jibari, but you gott to say yes right now. And you have to take back Kuzman the deal. wouldould you do it wait wait wait, Shengunon for who for Jabar Smith in Shengoon. for Janis And Houston would also have to take Czma is expiring as part of the deal. So Kuzma and Yanas for Sengun and Jabari Smith Could rather that than the Miami offer thousandousand percent Not even close to make, I would to. Um Jason from Ohio wants to know. After seeing the le and affection New York Cityities had for Brunson as the star that finally brought them the championship. Which player do you think has the most regret for not going to the Nicks and ending the drought when they had a chance? Is it LeBron, Kie or someone else This was the case. I remember writing a piece about this in twenty ten twenty ten, think about that. twenty ten saying this was the all time move for N NBA player. They had sixteen more years of sadness after that. U But we are saying like this is the move for LeBron and Wade. You win a title in New York. That's the greatest thing you could do in the league Right. They ended up not going there. There's a lot of reasons for that, including the Nick seem like kind of a mess. Donny Walsh in the wheelchair. they made some weird sopranosas video all that stuff. then Katie and Kyrie in the uh in the summer of twenty nineteen. U Katie's coming out the Achilles Ki wants to that of Boston KD wants to be in New York with Rich Cleiman and their whole business I was doing pods saying because I knew they were going to be in New York like he's going to the next. They're going to be New York, not realizing that they were picking Brooklyn and not New York Which one is worse to you, LeBron and Wade not going there are Kady and Kye I'm going to say Katie and Kyrie just because the the East is so was so getable. Like you could fast forward right into bunch of finals like a string of finals appearances with the, you know, the talent that that they could have had in place there in in u in New York. I mean,, you know, the big what if is The injury situation or surrounding Kiri, wouldould he have gotten hurt with that same kind of frequency I mean, you remember Durant was, you know, the only guy out of u harden ch the only one that was healthy. They were a seventeen win team heading into that free agency led by Tim Hardaway Jr. Kevin Knox. Dennis Smith Emmanuel Mudier. Eddis Caner. It was a great tank job. No tanking They tanked. Frank New Linka They were going for the Zions. Ritchell Robinson was there. Cournette was there Um they went to the nets and made them kind of clear the house and do the whole thing It's a really interesting KD what if. I don't know if they win the title with him, but think about how he is considered right now versus if they had gone him and Kyrie together to the Kicks. Rejuvenated MSG. Maybe Leon comes with West the next year anyway buildu' the right team around them Wow And maybe this all happens for those two guys. It is a what if? That's a great one because think of that, right? that the magnetism of those two guys coming and what that does in terms of the incentive for other people in the league to comebody loves the bright lights of MSG. Everybody wants to be the king of New York. Those guys miscalculation was that Brooklyn was going to be a thing. Brooklyn is never going to be a thing It's not a thing now. It wasn't a thing back then and it's never going to be a thing Think about the next four East Title winners after that after they went to Brooklyn twenty twenty Miami Unbelievable COVD season twenty twenty one. Milwaukee, which was a good team. I mean they middleton that was the best yearsies had Drew Holidayian us. They had their role players Conoton was good that year U twenty twenty two, a very young Celtics team that probably wasn't ready not ready twenty twenty three, the heat again Katie, Kyrie and a couple other people could happen. now Kyrie did get a little Cucku there for a couple years And I think kind stuff. Yeah. And I think he settled into a better, much better place. like I actually like everything that that Kyri is saying and doing in the last couple of years. but he' mean we're getting a little we We're going to have a new round of Kaire sweepstakes this upcoming season. It's going to be one of the fun storylines. M to KD staying there and Brunson moving in there. whoo knows? But it is you imagine James who says loveove the pod. Thanks, James. With Brntson winning a title in NYC, my friends and I, New York natives have been debating who is the top dog of the city The debate falls largely on Geter versus Brunson while Fraaser edged in stone I introduced the backroom theory essentially Jeter and Brunson walk into a restaurant at the same time, Wh does the owner give the back room to? This is is a great way of framing Brunson versus Jeter. And I'm going throwaron Judge in there too. let's I much But they are judges there too. And all of them there's one back room for ten ten seats who gets it? I think Brunson gets it now You don't think the owner says, guys, can we share? Would you wouldould you guys be willing to share E of them have nine people with them Well some of some of them like, you know, I would be it would be like you and I don't know who your equivalent is going in there. And then and then like I I would get kicked out. like some of the entourage has to go sit out. No, they would see you and be like, Ohh, Joe House is here. That's going to run the bill up by two thousand dollars Fair enough, fair enough. I think it's Brnson I think Jeter lost the spot He had it for from the late nineties to now, I think it's over 's there's a generation. I we just ask Jaco there might be a generation Now might not remember the greatness of Dere Jesar Is that possible? It's a long time Dan. Last World Series, they won in two thousand and then they had the tainted two thousand nine title Here's a great one Cameron By the way, Judge wins the World Series And now him versus Brunson is an argument, but he has Cameron writes, Brunson just became only the third under six foot three guard along with Isaiah and Gus Williams to be the best player in a title team Where does that put him in the small guard pantheon? I bring this question up and I'll answer it in a second. I left out Gus Williams last weekend and I feel really bad about that. He also wasn't in the pyramid of my book Um and I feel bad about that too. and I think it's one of my big misses because Um I went back and made a playoff MVP list at one point. I think he was the seventy nine playoff MVP. He was the best guy in the seventy nine champps He average twenty six point seven points a game during that playoffs He has a first team onve second and two thirds. He was fifth in MVP voting in eighty two He made finals, finals, Eastern conference finals three straight years, held out eight to eighty one He's the best point guard in the league from seventy eight to eighty two. for five years. he's the best point guard in the weeague and the magic takes it. Um and then ends up on your beloved Wizards team But I I feel like I've done aad job keeping the Guss leegacy alive. I know you loved him too. Yeah, for sure. and when you do the resume U it's just that that was such a quiet moment for the league. right? No and I think I pomized that for that. Yeah. and it was like Walton was in there and it's like can't do it. So if you're going to praise Brunson, You can't just discount Gus Williams, you know? So I feel like I did a bad job. anyyway The small guuard pantheon Brunston, Isaiah, Gus Williams and Tony Parker Titles Okay And then Iverson and Dame Wait, where's tiny Achibald in this Tiny could be there too. I'm just saying those are the four guys with titles. So I think if you're doing a pantheon, Smugger pantheon You do the titles and non titles. So maybe the non titles is Ivers own dame. Paul, Tiny Archibald Okay, okay. Alough Tiny Archibbal did win a title in nineteen eighty one Soaybe he should be on there too U It's to me, it's Brunston and Isaiah, but I think Gus Williams as the I think that's you got to start with those three. And again, apologies to Gus Ethan wants to know where I planned on putting OG in an O in my ringer top one hundred case that he should be top twenty five or higher B non cenate defender in the league really good offense. if you secured your number One awesome superstar Isn't he the perfect number two Perfect compliment, all time winning basketball player coming off a great playoffs I handed my ringer one hundred. I had OG sevententh Oh my Godd. Yeah. What? Yeah. Wow. Yeah You know what how that cuss? winning. Is he Is he ahead of cat In what you just handed in? You know where cat? eleventh. Oh, okay. All right. All right. I mean, all right. Okaykay Fine Yeah. Iix in the top twenty and I think that's great. the right call Again, when I was looking at over the course of the regular season, OG was always in the like the forty range. Now he was consistently ahead of the Aon Fox, which I felt I was glad that that, you know, to look at the rankings and see that., But the only thing ever with OG is availability. Like, you know, he it's just the injury stuff. Now conrat in the playoffs we f conat O course, of course. That's right Congrats to the next congrats to OG that he we got all the way through. he was able to get himself completely healthy for the finals run. It was a thrill to see. him at his at his peak, his basketball IQ. this is the thing that we should also laud this this Nick teams for. The reason that they had the highest point differential is because the they had the highest level of decision makers. Yes, Kat with a dumb foul trouble would always be something that you can point to I would also say that he was getting picked on. I mean, the two fouls at the beginning of game four were to me ludicrous, but look, that's setting all that aside OG How about the OG fifth vl game game five They didn't even replay that, I don't think. No, I know. I know. I got f time bigig brain. O. So great. conrats. Great job Natt from LA wrote I said OG is the best three and D guy of the era And he's like, what about early sppurs Ki Leonard? Best defenseive play in the league sat in the corner Sot Res crashed the glass. I was looking at the three three ind D only really goes back to two thousand nine Trevor Rzo was the first like impactful and it was really only in the finals but had a really good three inde finals. It was the first time Posey was in there. there was a couple like, sure Th and the adjacent, but not like what we have now. I was I went through all the title teams trying to figure out the best Um There's two twenty three KCP. There's a couple Danny Greens. But they're all like eleven points a game in that range and didn't take a lot of fld goals It is fourteteen qui twenty six z G. These are the playoff stats OG was twenty points a againame, twenty point one points a game. Pcentages were fifty six field goal forty nine three, eighty five free throw You only take eleven point six field goal attempts a game and average twenty point one points twenty fourteen, Kawai, fourteen points a game tenen point four field goal attempts, only one last shot of game. fifty one, forty two, seventy four percentages. So they're around the same. It's just He took less threes than Oji did, but It's a good one. Now Kawi was guarding LeBron. O G guess was was guarding the guards on the spray. He didn't have a LeBron type assignment There' one A and one B. I'm not C I won the finals MVP Oh he had the most famous play in basketball in the last ten years. Yeah, let's just have them side by side. I think it gets side by side. I don't want to pick between that. Okay G glad you agree. Um A couple more Brunsons This is from Debob in New York Brunson the Nicks are now the nineteenam out of eighty champs not to have a top five player twenty six Nicks, fourteen spurs, Ozero four pistons, eighty eight and eighty nine pistons, seventy nine Sonics, seventy eight bullets, seventy three Nicks And he threw the forty eight bullets in there for us Thank you, Deob. Um basasically he's saying going by NVP votes or first time mon He suggests can we have a can we get rid of the can't win a title with that a top five quer roll if nine eighty champions idn't have a top five player That's like fourteen percent Yeah, Im My counter is that I would argue Brunston now is a top five player and maybe he doesn't count for this one Fourteen Spurs was really the last one where we were like, I don't even know who Do they have a top ten player But I think Brunson, it's Joker SGA, Brunson, Weemy and Luca probably in that order. U or Wendby over Brunson, however you want to do it But those are the five best players in the league right now Yes But do you Do you think are you ready to dump that rule though, because that did make me think No, because it's eighty six percent right other way. I was thinking about doing a playoff man I was going to do a playoff manifesto for basketball next year and I think that would be one of There's suggestions they're not set in stone, but I think that is a good one to look at because that is once a decade Yeah, right. there you go. onnce a decade. So once a decade, something weird happens. This is basically I look at it Jonathan, New Jersey wants to know, wants us to know Guess who has the most playoff wins for a player since twenty twenty one. It's no longer Brown or Tatateror Marnie Celtic. It's Jaalen Brunson at fifty one Greatest playoff performer in the decade so far. That helps the. Pyramid case. All right. We're gonna take one more break and then I have a lot of spur Spurs emails that you're gonna to enjoy Oh boy This episode is brought to by Netflix. The T mobile homeome runun derbies right around the corner. might be one of the best showcases of pure power and off sports baseballs Biggest sluggers. along with some legendary Announcers, Puhos, Rizzo, Bonds, Sabathia. L Duncin Yeah Hunter Pence, Matt Faskirzian, a whole bunch of people. And it's the one night where you don't swing to make contact You swing to make history. Ied is who what Bon says about this actually. Anyway, it is all live from Citizens Bank Parks. In Philly, watch the T mobile homeome runun Derby liive and Netflix this Monday, july thirteenth at A PM Eastern five PM Pacific Our roll battery is the same That's like asking ev all soccer players are the same. Take Messi, the most decorated player ever Is there any other player who has achieved that? No, just him. Now take Duracl. Is there any other battery with power boost ingredients inside? No, just Duracl. Remember, goats only trust goats because they're built different. and Messi only trusts Duracsel. David wants to know game five did the rich New York asshole fans just indecent proposal, the entire city of San Antonio Wait minute. what's the We threw it Remember this' a proposal Yeah. Redford, Woody Harrison and Dimmy Moore need money Right. They're in Vegas gambling and Robert Redford becomes infatuated with Demi Mre and he's like pay you a million dollars for a night with your wife. and then they argue about it and decide to do it and she does it That's basically all the Spurs fans with their game five tickets There's forty five percent Nick fans there Now I you were able to pay for your season tickets by doing it, but it is I do like the ind the indecent proposal game is the greatest way to do game five. Really good Mike G wants to know u twenty twenty six Nick, B example of the secret. since the fourteteen spurs How many other teams would you say fully embodied the secret as well Um the sixteen calves kind of got there. Sure, sure. I mean, I really respect the I know there was Draymont suspension, but winning that game seven in Golden State and Richard Jefferson and Kevin Love like playing date like I thought I don't think they got there the whole playoffs, but I think they got there in those last three games But every team embraces it to some degree. The fourteen Spurs is the most famous one, I think, in the last twelve Sure, that's fine. And the e maths I would put up there too We're really splitting fine hairs to me because every one of like the theampget doesn Yeah. twenty three nuggets is a good one. Yeah, that's pretty good. likeike, you know, they really understood and Joker is the facilitator of of the secret, right? You don't who do you want touching the ball U to administer the secret seventeen workers had it Joker. The thing is every every champion has the secret some degree There's two teams that feel like they won because of the secret in the last years the next That's fine Spurs where it look like one of the top two reasons they won Fine I think eleven mabs are up there. I would put the zero four pistons there Good. u aggree probably it Um Travis from San Antonio said Salty Spurs fan here Watching Fox in the finals was as painful as it can get It had me wondering what are the worst finals performances from the highest paid guy in a team I did not send this to you. I did the research though Fox was thirteen, three, and six. He shot thirty four percent, twenty five percent from three Trch by Brunson on the other end. and then had the game for Brain far I'm not ready to put twenty sixteen curry in there. I do think some people would twenty three game He was forty forty forty eighty nine shooting splits. He played a bad game seven. I don't think he was bad for the series These five, I think are in the combo Um I'll go backwards from fur this away. nineteen ninety three Kein Johnson mentioned earlier, seventeen points a game, just absolutely murdered them in the first two games.'s got to the point where Frank Johnson seemed like a better option for him in the series. I remember this. Yes. My mind went there immediately. Stat's backed it up. Nick Anderson with the four free throws that he missed For the series, twelve points a game, thirty six percent shooting, three for ten threeree throws and just got wiped out. So he has to be mentioned There's a great this one got lost to history but Kevin Martin I'm sorry, Kenyon Martin in the two thousand thir three finals against Duncan when Duncan ran a mock and One of the great start to finish seasons anyone's had. He destroyed Kenya Martin the first couple games of this series Kenny Martin for the series was fourteen and ten, thirty four percent field goals. We made a lot of jokes as it was happening. I don't think it was really his fault though He got destroyed by that he took a lot of shit that serious. I'm just saying th, but He was going against Tim Duncan, the second best play of all time Kolbe Bryant, two thousand four finals against the Pistance Wow That's funny.f course you had to do that you're not the premise here though was like high is paid It's not just naming famous guys fininals performance from highest paid guys So that Keny Martin was the high guy on that next team. Yeah, for sure. Okaykay. I get that. But Kobe in two thousand four, Okaykay. All right. All right. An give the stats Gohe They lost in five. forty six minutes a game twenty three points a game re assist the game. thirty eight percent shooting, seventeen percent from three. It was three for twenty three from three kind of got his ass kicked by the pistons The Laker fans. I've heard the spin from the Laker fans on this Shaack was out of shape. Yes. Kobe had to take a lot of shots near the end of Shockhock possessions. I'm just saying He has to be mentioned. The worst one ever is LeBron in twenty eleven Oh wow againstx. Yeah. Okaykay All right. He dipped down. he was like a twenty seven, twenty eight points a game guy He did down to eighteen a game eighteen seven and seven, thirty two percent from three, twelve for twenty from the free throw line and famously the eight point game in game four was being guarded by JJ Berea and really felt like he'd melted down in a bunch of different ways. To a point that we started to wonder Is this going to happen? Do we put too much pressure on? Th then he bounces back the next year and goes on his run But I think ' probably the worst one other than Nick Anderson What would you say Um, Well, was Nick Anderson at that point That's the other one. wasas he he was paid at the top of that Orlando team. Nick Anderson was not and he shouldn't be in the conversation. But I just wanted to talk about how terrible of a finals he had Kevin because Kevin Johnson versus Barcley is probably even Yeah Um, I mean, did Kevin Johnson made more than Marley at that point, right? Yeah. So he's in the top two. But yeah, if you're talking highest highest paid, it's Kmart Kobey in Le Bront But I wanted to mention Kevin Johnson and D Earon Fox By default is the highest paid spur. It's the highest paid spur. It's just a the highest paid spur. I am going to again, mount a gentle defense for Fox. I remember he was the trade for him No No, I definitely do not want that. But he missed a whole bunch of playoff games. He was missing games because he had a leg injury, He had an ankle injury Yeah and It is not that uncommon for a guy to come off of an ankle injury and to not shoot the ball well. Now the challenge is the moment called for the highest level all of the shots that became then that's That's a M Johns problem That's right. I agree. It's more of a mit Johnson problem than the Aaron Fox. blame circle to me. If I'm handing up slices of blame pie Um that what the way the Nicks played second half defense, especially and fourth quarter defense What was open was a mid range jumper for whoever had the ball. and that mid range jumper, the bu the guy with the ball at the end of games was Daron Fox and he missed nearly every Fing one of them. I mean, and that's the why you have salty Spurs fans. Riting in next year be Lorie Markin and banging him down That is a really good trade. It's really good. You're going love Next email. and I almost sent it to you, but I wanted your natural reaction live on the podcast Todd Wilmack He writes He's French, he's cheesy and he melted down. Weimby's nickname should be fondu Put it out there, Bill I love it He's twenty two and this is probably the low point of his career, but the big fondu is pretty funny someomebody, you know, part of the rich experience of these finals was game trying to imagine what the New York Post might run as their cover thing. And one of the after game for, my two favorites. they didn't go with either one of them was just the tip for OG come flying in. That was magnificent. I heard that from many quarters, including my boy My boy, Peter Freedom gave me that one. And then Sakreay Blew it. That was somebody on the internet who had had I'm in your I'm in your head, Weemby on the floor yelling at Mitchell Robinson doing that thing. And then the headline was Sakreay Blew it like w. Oh like God Dam magnificent. I don't remember who put that on the Big fndu would have been a good post post go. Let's keep going The big that's great. There's no reason to get off of it. like the big fnd I like the Pig fondoo better. I was get all these jokes going because he's going to wreak havoc on the league and the angrier he gets the more fun the next set. I don't. This is what makes next season this upcoming season so goddamn magnificent. How many times did Nicks go right the fuck at him? He's like OGo andobi's like you Dunk on this bit. Did you see Dunkson clip in the second half. There was a slomo version of it was one of his baskets in the fourth quarter. Wendby gets switched on him And Brunson does like he does the Brunson thing where he seems like he's going to go left crosses over Yeah gets Wimby on a side and Wby's like sprawling around. It looks like a deer on ice gets Wimby on a side then cuts in like he's going try to get a foul on Weemby. So Weemby kind of stops and he does this thing again And then Brunson cuts the other way. Weby flails the other way to go get him and then Brunson comes back and' a le clip. It's like in slow motion. It's like one of the great clips I've ever seen in basketball and it's like everything you need to know about how great Jayalen Brunson is Just fucking working a seven foot six guy He was cooking up the fondu. It's amazing. Fun new, fun We is good. Before we moved toal A, my wife and I went to Montreal Yes. And we went to a wonderful city. We went to a fondu restaurant Yes. And we just saye fondu And it was like one of the great mostost memorable dinners I've had, it was like just fondue. just there was a chain of ns on fondue There used to be a chain. It was like called the hotpot. I can't remember now. It was like a had five two together I don't think we've ever had fondoo together. That's amazing. How have we not had fondue Wonder if Chiang has fond new thoughts I'm gonna have din have a chank I'm gonna talk fun do with chank. You're happ because you don't live here. Manifest it. Kam from North Carolina. I got a bunch of different versions of this question We'll go with Cam Is We be the quickest hero of villain in sports history I think you can make the case. The finals alone changed how people looked at him entirely Like even SGA that happened over the course of the season and the playoffs. And Chris from DC He added some Chris He added, Wendby walked into June as the consensus future face of the Lague and walked out of it as the most unlikable man in the sport. I went in rooted for this guy hard. I came out wondering if he's the most punchable player since Pete Draymond Um, and then Kevin said Um Has anyone in history pulled off the difficult feet of going from emerging face of the leag to man. this guy's a fucking jack offff In less than two weeks Um Nathan Stewart wants to know as w be a fake tough guy. comes across like the villain in a teen movie is smiling and acting like the perfect kid when the adults are watching, but playing dirty and trying to bully people when no one's looking U It just keeps going and going phenomenal This is the sentiment right now. This is why I said to Zach Low on Saturdayight When it was talking about face of the League, future of the League, Weemby's here and it was like this was kind of a catastrophe for all those angles I think it was. It wasn't a catastrophe for his career He's twenty two He's got his whole career. I'm not overreacting to that. This is part of the process It was just interesting to watch the perception of him shift that fast, right Well, here's the thing And I want to take a couple steps back and see as we approach the next season whether this still holds true. I think There is there's never been a more pronounced kind of experience of NBA basketball than this moment I think he's absolutely beloved kids around my age, by teenage kids and younger They will all universally tell you that they love Weby and they they are not like myy his same thing. Right. And he's eighteen. He's a little older than your boy. How many games did he sit down and watch from the beginning to the end of these NBA finals? I mean, I could tell you for my kid, none zero. He My kid doesn't sit down and watch, you know, games all the way through. He comes in. I make him come in and watch quarters for me, But nothing about what went down in these finals changes his perspective when it comes to to Weemby and you know, the reverence. he I can't tell you how many times this big dummy kept coming to me. Dad, how far away is Weby from the goat? I'm like, you got to get. You got to leave the room right now I do not want to be responsible for child abuse, but I will hit a man K keep talking to me that way, even if it's a young man. But I mean, that's that's there is We out the basketball commentariat, everybody in our echo chamber, writ large, all of New York all of New York hates Wemmy now. I mean, it's wonderful to have him as a villain, but I think there is still yet amongst this generation that's coming up as NBA fans consuming the NBA not by watching games, but by consuming it on the internet that will still hold Wemby in the highest regard. Honestly similar to us with Jordan May we were in college together. we love Jordan. We love love them. But when they played the when then they played the Lakers in ninety one, I was like, he's going to lose. He's not ready for this yet Is magic, the old guys, they're going to teach Tach set Michael Journal lesson And this is part of the process. You got to get your teeth kicked in early You got to climb the ladder rungs and then you got to get to where you're going to get I will read these two emails though. Mellting pot. That was the name of the fondu place. I didn't look it up. I knew I could get it. The melting pot. Keep going sorry Michael from Chicago Can't help but think Weemby is pulling a ninety eight Carl Malone Clutch free throws aren't going in tentative to shoot. Didn't seem like he totally wanted the ball. N to say he'll never have it, but he just doesn't have it yet might be mean or unfair, but here we are He's twenty two This criticism, I agree with A This is from KJ. After watching the playoffs, I knew two things about Wendby He's either seven foot five, seven foot six or seven foot seven. Great. I think he's seven seven, but there's claiming seven five, but it is probably really seven six That's the first thing. secondecond one He's gased at the end of these games Has there ever been a twenty two year old superstar who has always gassed at the end of big games Magic certainly wasn't. Jordan Brd, Wilt Russell, Kobe, Duncan, you get the picture This is it. Dead wrong. Wh do you have? Go ahead? Shack No, no, I'm not I'm not go ahead. finished. That's it. That's it. That's it. Okay Um We began this entire time together, this wonderful time on this Monday post NBA finals Tking about you some of the ways that the Knicks took advantage of the sppurs. I think it is a learned skill Of what is is involved with this version of the Surs, None of those guys ever played this level of basketball under for these circumstances. Yeah these are the leverage exactly highest leveraged moments of their entire lives on a basketball court. Now Weemby did get the Olympics. You know what the difference between the Olympics and the NBA is The Olympics, it the game forty minutes. They're not forty mines two and half weeks And big big breaks in between games Um this version and that's why I said earlier, it's a learned skill. It's a skill. You have to and you have to not just the individual players understanding when to expend energy and when not to. You don't win the game in the first quarter or the second quarter. like all of those kinds of lessons. You don't celebrate the Western confonference finals like you won the title Oh that that was fine. I mean, this was that was unexpected and their their target all along was Oklahoma City. We know this from from the way that they went that Okla was for long. My biggest regret was I I discounted how they reacted after they beat OKC because they were own handicapping of how manyers I thought they better to New York. I thought they had the perfect team to go against Bruncon and I was right for three and a half games But what I did discounted was He' kind of already climbed the mountain whereas the nexts were like icy, fucking older Vveerans who were like the F series is the one and the Spurs, I don't think I ever realized that until it was too late How How else are they going to they can't learn it. This is the reason why you know, it's a very, very unique thing that we experienced this year where we kept saying, is this the moment where we see the Spurs inexperience catch up to them? It wasn't until they made it to the finals and went against the Kicks. I don't think there's any other team in the entire NBA except for maybe fully healthy Oklahoma City. If Oklahoma City hadn't undergone the injuries the experience with Mitchell and JadeW, exactly right, then where would that have ended up But they kind of had OKC's number I think what was interesting about this right like Castle lost confidence as the finals went along. Now you could have said it was the moment it was the How many minutes they played in the playoffs, but those last two games see He went sideways. you know did not shoot the ball well. He didn't But I mean, again, foul trouble on game four and then game five was kind of afraid to do stuff, but this is all part of the learning experience. s right We learning experience. This next question from Ethan is good one though eightighty years NBA history tells us that if you make the finals, this young and lose probably won't make it back with the same iteration of that team. He list eighty six rockets Sakeim and Sampson id didn't get back there until ' ninety four compennyion ninety five never happen again LeBronon z seven. never won in Cleveland. KD until sixteen came back and it was he was the only same guy in the team and had to leave for four years. Fair, fair Nate to rig three lotteries for him D I say nowou lou Kie Russ Hard That was the jo Kadies Katie Russ Harden and Abaca in twenty eleven trraded hard and never got it back Interesting. So this is once a decade, eighty six, ninety five, zero seven and eleven and now The sppurs would I guess be the next example in twenty six There's two outliers for this. The twenty two Celtics They lose the finals Everyone's ready to trade JB for whoever And they make it in two years later and they win with the same nucleus. They have Derek White They have Richard They have Cford still and the Js. Well they get they get they add Pzgus and they add J. But they had a lot of the same nucleus. So that's an outlier. And then the seventy nine Sonics They make the seventy eight finals. they lose game seven. Dennis Johnson goes, I think over eleven in game seven, but then they win the next year against your team So did Interesting theory, though didnid' make me go, huh U So what can the spurs do becausecause I think this is the version of the spurs that we're going to see for the next couple years. There aren't like they just se Dilling Harbor to become the guy we think he is and Bill that far away, but the B theen w. support the idea that it may not come next year, that it might not even be two years from now is how good the West is. We still have these injuries Yeah. Well sure, yes, Al injuries, especially with Wenby Coach Steve. has a spurs over reaction trade All right. The worders received Daron Fox number twenty and Mitch Johnson The Spurs receive, Jimmy Butl' expiring and Steve Kerr. Wow. Wow I gotta say, I kind of thought about this for a couple minutes and I landed in a really good place with it That sounds very petty. Coach Steve must be from San Antonio. That is a very petty trade. So Steve Curt, you're buying low on Miss Johnson But young younger guy moving in, maybe, you know, maybe learns got some scars in the finals. you get picked twenty We the Bothers expiring, and Steve Kerr gets to go back to San Antonio. I like Not only that, he loves stuff, but coach would say no to the opportunity to coach up Weemby mister Hasle. Could somebody aggregate that like that's a real trade? I wanna say everybody go nuts This is a cing Yeah. Andrewll says As someone who loves all sports, you know as well as I do, sports are a copycat league If you're an NBA execut in any stage of your franchise, what did you learn from how the Kicks were built? How would you copycat it I have five things for you. tellell me if I missed anything Executives with connections. that run a little deeper than just oh yeah, I met that guy a couple of times. West recruited towns when he was fifteen years old Yes. Oji andobi CAA Brunson, Rick Brunson, that whole thing. Like these are like real relationships and bridges Villanova. How do you replicate that with somebody, right? So we' seen Arn and Tellm went to Detroit and that didn't work Um we saw Bob Myers go to Golden State that did work. We saw Nico go to Dallas. too early to tell if that worked. But you're talking about connection personality guys. There are a few of those left. There's some Some pretty high powered agents left or somebody like even the ringers Rich Paul could run a team. like there's Guys who have a lot of relationships who could who could do it. So that be one This one's interesting, targeting proven starters hitting the twenty five to twenty eight age range a little bit older like the Rashid Detroit Um OG Bridges even when they got Brunson like getting guys at that Second five years part of their career but not too late Yeah like somebody like Janas and you're fourteen Kevin Duran and you're fifteen going to find out But you know what I mean? That makes sense, right? Like that second five years of somebody's career. canan we get somebody in that range Um leveraging the player to player friendship histories, chemistry, work hic gritty guys, I think is one. And then my biggest lesson for them is don't be afraid to take a couple swings Like firing ts was a swing Do the OG trade and guaranteeing him this contract when we weren't positive. he could always stay healthy. was a swing Jayalen for four for one hundred six was not a hugely popular contract. Five picks for Mcuel Bridges like this team and went for it a few times. And I think anything else would you add No, and I don't know how replicable any of that is. I mean, the challenge Um, the thing that the Kicks pulled off was like literally decades in the making, right? it's Leon Roseen Worldwide West in the situations that they've been in building literallyadesious. Right. Yes Yes. and having perspectives on players that were undervalued or underappreciated in their situations and understanding the force multiplier of bringing those guys together L, you know, we know we can unlock something we we know something about bridges that he doesn't need to be an alpha that he can be even a what is a theta, whatever alpha beta, whatever the third the third wheel is. Um, he doesn't even need to be a second he could be fourth because you have Ky of Kat also and they got the best version of Cat because they got a combination of cat maturing Also like, you know, because think about how many times the Nicks, you know, theoretically werere trading cat, right? overver these last two years. Oh, we got to trade cat like even you fans. We're not reaching our our potential. You know, we only won fifty games two years ago and fifty three games this year and Kat's holding us back and Tibbs and Kat can't get on the same page Well, that means Tibbs has to go because we're not going to trade cat. likeike just think about and how they were rewarded for just Let's just settle down. Let's just hold on And the two the best player in the first two games of the NBA finals was Kat Do you wantna be one of the judges of my Ringer game show that I'm gonna start this summer where we take Nicks fans, we give them true serum? What's the thing where you have to the drug where you have to tell the truth I' w they have traded Towns and OG andobbe for Janis and Kao Kuzma a year ago. I just w wonder how many Nicks fans would have one hundred percent locked into that. That's not a fantasy Now he'll lie. Fantasy Fantasy lies all the time I to see the liar Travis wrote a tips thing actually about Did I hate watching Tibbs run a rigid se man rotation into the hardwood until the wheels fell off against Indiana? Absolutely. Did it drive me crazy? they completely froze out assistance? Managed titles Bah, blahah. But I cannot deny the results of that bootcamp Tibbs pressure cooked the core He conditioned these guys to play heavy minutes without buckling Taught them elite habits, blah blahah if he hadn't done all that This roster doesn't w a title So why is he still single without an NBA team If I was running a lotter routine like Charlotte Washedon in Portland, Chicago, Dallas, I would take a flyer on him immediately, What are your thoughts on that? This is a brilliant email and I hope it didn't come from Tibbs Asian because it came from Travis Thompson Well, Travis Thompson, I don't I don't Travis this is brilliant not agree more. I think Tibbs This is literally the thing that I've been sort of railing against in terms of the criticism of San Antonio. They' they're not being ready. The this next team was ready and part of the getting ready was what Tibbs did to them. That it's absolutely on the money. And I do think I have been wondering al loud Why isn't Tibbs at least like a defensive assistant somewhere? You know where TIbs would make sense And I don't know San Antonio defefensive coordinator It could work because Sean Sweeney is about to leave. He's the new head coach of Orlando I wouldn't hate to see Tibbs in Washington, D.C. I would not hate as your head coach I don't know what role Can you get rid the guy I gave up baby three points to bay about a bio? I'm not. Brian Keef has done aag magnificent job and I don't have anything bad to say about him. during his tenure here in Washington. You're craz. But I don't hate the idea Tipbs deserves another shot. We'll just I'll leave it at the agree Gerald sent a long email about the twenty twenty six Spurrs being the reincarnation of the twenty twelve Thunder that I thought was interesting. how they ended up in twenty twelve finals going against like Bys against men type situation. Also a five game series that I felt like OKC was in those first four games. Good. good. ra good can't say I love the refereing of the first four games in that series And then by game five they kind of wilted and ye, but they were toe to toe with them that whole series couple more and then we' go Tim Gibson said, I'm sorry I have to bring this up. The closest supporting event to what happened in MSG with game four, the finals has to be game six of the eighty six World sereries notot just because of the insane comeback and the choking aspect, but because it was the win before the quincher. Thanks all you and everyone else that the ringer does from Tim pretty good. retty good. It really is a good. win before the win the of the miracle that got the Kicks fans to drop their guards finally after Trump game three Game four down twenty seven and you need some sort of karma shift you have Brunson front rim, bouncing right to OG, crazy tip sequence basasically the equivalent of the Red Sox having the fourteen straight strikes to end the game and not being able to Um And then uh Darren Fox. slash Bill Buckner U you keep going. but I thought that was pretty good and that and I still think Game six of the eighty six World Series is the worst sports loss of all time Um I'm biased because I'm a Boston fan, but comeome All those pitches away from winning the World Series and then not doing it, but then having to play game seven U finally I love this and it marries up perfectly because it was the game before the cllincher. the only one that rivals it and you mentioned it immediately in the in the moment. No, no, no, no, no The Atlanta Falcons giving up a twenty eighth twenty eighth in the Sperowool But that wasn't, you know, that's the Super Bowl, which is not a game before a game clincher kind of situation Dustin says, I have great news for Dallas fans. Tough month for Dallas fans Is he talking about the Dallas Mavericks Greet news from Mavericks fans. He thinks the cowboys have replaced the Nicks as the sports team with the most fans who have had the longest drought and will go the most nuts if they actually win the title And he was like, sureure, it's cool that they won the Super Bowl when I was seven, but the last thirty plus years have been brutal. So they won the Super Bowl in ninety five. So that's thirty one years. So if you're thirty six years old or under you have no recollection of the Cowbys winning the Super Bowl I turn them. ast over to you, Joe House because we're the ex Redskin commommander fans in this whole thing. And I would argue Washington has almost Not as many fans as Dallas, but they have a fucking lot of fans. Y Super Bowl drought was Mark Ripppen, ninety one ninety one and to You know further this We had, you know a demon in charge of the franchise. I mean, a person that came in and ruined every single tradition that Washington had in place and a whole I mean, part of the point of pride for Washington fans growing up in the seventies and eighties was that there was a culture. There was a way. Jack Kent Cook, you know, notwithstanding his checkered history with the Lakers and the rest of it as an owner of the Washington Redkins was a magnificent owner and did entrust, you know, the people that he put in charge to make good decisions. and a culture developed in Washington. and that was part of the pride that we all felt that we it felt like Washington was built up the right way. the hogs you' in the. It was the biggest byy far the biggest team in the city And then to have the new owner come in and basically for two decades take a shit on every single thing. He took a shit on the fans, he took a shit on the city. He took a shit on winning. he was all to his own narcissistic ends. And he was a huge dick And it took a near act of God for the league to kick him out, you know, to finally try and realize the potential of what this Washington franchise Dallas is not in that class because Dallas has been relevant the whole time and has an owner that actually spent money and was interesting to build a new stadium. All of it. Yeah. you had more of the Kick's arc of It's being disembowed for two straight decades And then on top of it, the RG three piece of thinking you finally had the Savior and then the guy gets hurt in a year was another Yeah The Ram sent out in a game after RG three was no longer on on Washington All of the draft picks. they sent out to the center of the field when when they were doing the coin flip before a regular season Rams, Redskins just a fucking. Yes. Yeah, show base or I don't remember who the head coach was just sent out all the guys that they got in that trade Well end there. That's a good one to end on. I'm glad you were able to make the case for Washington I do think there's only a couple You know, like Buffalo is obviously. Yes. Buffalo deserves. But Buffalo doesn't have a million fans You know, Minnesota is another one. They haven't won a title since ninety one. They've never won a title with the Timberwolves, the Lakers left and went won all these titles without them But they don't have a million fans. I think when you get to the Cowboys and Redskins, which is what we grew up with. those those franchises and then also had success and then that success was taken away. I think that I think those are the right two answers. There's nobody in the NBA like that And then the maple Lafs in the Mapleeafs in hockey I think would be the other one Ironically, the giants have been bad for a long time. I mean I know, but that is twenty eleven. I'm o. All right, fine. Anyone who wants to shed tears for the giants can honestly go fuck themselves Obviously I in right in the face Yes wholeheartedly agree with that. Before we go, what's your US open pick? I know you'd be covering this on Fairway Roan and the Ringer Gambl S showow all week, but what you got? Yeah. so I get I reserve the right to change my mind over a couple times. Sotty Scheffler at plus five fifty is the best odds of any major. This is his one on Fandal right now. Yeah, his first attempt to clinch the grand slam. It's his first attempt because he just won the British open last summer. So this U S open that he hasn't won. He's got the masters. he's got the PGA Championship. He could clinch the US O at those odds. I like Hey how about this? I like the prohibitive favorite, but it is a good setup for him and the thing that has been holding like the narrative. I do like the narrative. It is the lead narrative. Scottty is fine and going down the card a little bit, Matt Fitzpatrick has been on an absolute heater. Now we've had two European winners win the first two majors of this season. We had Aaron Ry from the UK win the PGA Championship and obviously Rory won the masters, but Matt Fitzpatrick very easily could have four wins this season. He finished second this most recent week at the Canadian open. He's just on an all time heater. and so I want a guy like that the incredible ball striking and no problem at all with the distance that Chinocoak is going to pose Can I give you two 'm listening Fleetwood twenty to one. Love Tommy Fleetwood. Everybody will remember that in in twenty eighteen, he shot a sixty three that came this close to being a sixty two lost by one stroke to Brooks Kepka. Great. love Tommy Fleetwood. It' just wondering Is it in the air from this next title The improbable, feeling a little more probable We just had UFC where Perrera and Toria just lost. like Weird is like the World Cup. God only knows what's going to happen. team the team USA lookook at you looked incredible on Friday night. Um is just just going to be a weird month of sports. And if that's the case, Fleetwood I'd also like to offer ander Saffley a twenty to one Xander' wonderful. He has an extraordinary track record at US Oens in particular, but nobody in golf other than Rory and Scottty has as many high finishes in majors over the last ten years. He our number your due to actually win a major guy right now. Well he has two majors. He won two in one season, but he won The PGA Championship at Valhalla and then he won U the British open at Tron. So he's due to win, you know, the US O the Gnd open I at the real Majors mases in the US open find the only one There's two tournaments that actually matter and he has't He hasn't won either of those. B bothoth of those are great picks worth getting some of some money down on both of them. U Before we go I just I went to the I went to the World Cup Oh yeah the opener. That's so f They lookook at you Jersey. I saw the best American soccer game we've ever played in the World Cup I was I was in the fando box. shout out to Christian right not We had great seats I had a great time It's I gota say I was I was blown away by the by the team and De Bundo was calling this before the tournament. He was telling us like, look I get it. I get the skepticism Just know, this is the healthiest we've been in like four years. This is the first time we've had all of our guys. Okay They demolished Paraguay in the first half. It was unbelievable to watch. We had guys Holistic was just dominated their back right guy U Over and over again, guys just beating people one v one and then creating plays. and I couldn't believe it I was just I was just dumbfounded And then u that's the peak We'll see, Australia beat turkey They done upset. that So now we have this Fid money on with this Friday game that I think is really great. It's Friday afternoon, three o'clock Eastern time This is everybody has to leave work Um Lunchime. That's do not put in a full day. Go to a fucking bar. It's a national holiday. There's no work It's no work. It's juneteenth. It's a national holiday. It's juneteenth You're famili with Juneteenth? I Forgot it was juneteenth It's a holiday. This a simple animal. I right I didn't realize that was the same day. I don't look at the Yeah. Th three o'clock every day. I never know what the holiday is. I understand. I get it.. Holy shit. Unlike This is gonna be a really special day And it's reallyally a country that I like. Yeah in general, but not on Friday. Fuck guys guys. I hope we get to see Is it at Sofi We're out in Seattle Oh, o I wanted to be in a warm climate because the photos that are coming from the warm climate games, like I had a buddy who went up to Philadelphia yesterday to see Ecuador play the Ivory C. a wd card. And he was it was hot in Philly yesterday. Wh He says first of all, I mean, I wonder if this marries up with your experience this is my boy Migie. He says that it's like a rock concert. It's like it's not like a sporting event that you've ever kind of gone to. It's like a constert constant high energy of the crowd the the entire time. But yes, why't we're not going to have that kind of weed experienence in no way. Like where you're really getting it? You know, Scotland was in in the Boston game playing in Foxborough. And my daughter went out without My daughter went out with a boyfriend Saturday n They went to this place called Cugin's which was filled with Scottish people watching the World Cup and lose their minds as game five of the NBA finals was on And she said it was the best sports bar experience of her life. They had like the greatest time ever And she was like These Scottish people are fucking nuts She's like, we love them. We've never seen anything like that. They were just maniacs. and I was like, you realize your mom's half Scottish, right? And she's like, Oh, now it all makes sense She just she's twenty one years old. She just realized you Yeah which like twenty five percent Scottish and twenty five percent Italian, but But she said She said it was one of the most fun nights because now she's twenty one too, but she said they had like the greatest time. And so I think in some of these other cities, it's a little bit of a different experience than going to sof far in LA. But it was still great. I mean, it was everybody had the jerseys, people going nuts The striker third goal for us Yes, was had to be the greatest American goal I've ever seen. but I just imper say his name. Palgun. I all God But we're both gonna fuck that one up. It was like The country doesn't score goals like this storboy. You know, at us. Great run muscles the dude off and then just like blast light and he's already turning around as the ball's going in the corner. I was like holy shit. He could have played for two other countries and he chose us. I like the guys that that choose us. the guys that have options but choose us. Yeah, there's, I don't want to point out there's two weak spot guys that I didn't love during that game. Don't talk me now. I don't want to I don't want to talk about weakness. I don' to talk about strength. Be be positive. You were awesome. Richards What is fucking maniac in that game U But I really got excited. likeike I couldn't be more excited to u for the Friday game and everything else. So World Cup. I can't wait to lose more money on it. Thanks to Tony Tkinens. You'll be on Ringer Gambling showow Fairway Rowlling Thanks to Go and Eduardo as well for producing the pod today. I'm going to be back. I think I'm going to have two more pods this week. so Stay tuned for that. and then hand that rocks the crrados up on rewatchables right now. Joe House Um I didn't tell you this yet, but youre you're going to be one of the people live with me at the rightad after the NBA draft on Tuesday night. So don't go let's go. Don't go anywh man. Yeah. Your team will take a fly to LA for that then. If I'm going to be live, I might as well be live. Why don't I have a meal? like you're I've ha meals with Dave Chang over my head. Why don't I just come many pictures tonight from the Dave Chang Mail we're going to a good one. Go get some fond do. All right, Thankks House. Thankks to the big fond do. Thankks to everybody else. Thanks for all the mail bag emails out there and I'll see you a little bit later in the week