Mentorship and Future Goals

Stuart here, you can go to Stuart Goldsmith dot com slash comedy for tickets to my national tour. That's right. I'm taking my second ever climate comedy show. It's called Canary. I'm taking it the Edinburgh Festival for the last two weeks of August at the mononkey Barrel at Cabaret Voltaire and I shall see you there in the last two weeks of August and then it's a national tour for this guy. Cambridge, Glasgow, Oxford, Manchester Cardiff, Midenhead, Sheffield and Birmham culminating in my biggest ever tour show at Bristol Old Vixs, Stewart gooldsmith. com slash comedy for all your tickets. What makes a leader worth following? What should you really care about in your job as technology is changing so quickly? Is it just gonna be about machines, talking to other machines? I mean, should you quit your job and start something on your own? What would that take? What does success and risk look like when we're all at the starting gate together? These are the questions we answer each week on lead human Myers and Tim Spangler. Join us each week and subscribe at your favorite podcast platform and YouTube We'll tell stories, we'll hear from some of the best, and we'll try to figure this out together. Monday, AI agents took over my work And I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders, agents handle the daily grind now. They live inside Mondayot comot So they see the full picture, my work, my team, the whole company. And I don't have to worry about the data. It's safe, whichich means I'm free to focus on the big stuff, knowing everything runs smoothly in the background It's completely shifted the way we work. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday. com ACAS powers the world's best podcasts Here's a show that we recommend A photographer in Texas earns an extra forty seven thousand dollars a year shooting Star Wars cosplay portraits. A teacher in Maryland turns her woodworking hobby into a five figure side income without leaving the classroom. And a couple in Pennsylvania will rent you backyard chickens for the season, so you can try the egg laying life without commitment. My name is Chris Gillibo, I'm the host of sideide Hustle School I share these kinds of stories every single day. In detail with full transparency about the numbers. The point isn't just to inspire you, it's to show you what's possible. Proof that ordinary people are quietly building extra income in surprising ways, including a few ideas you can borrow. Less than ten minutes a day, every day, subscribe or follow sideidehustle School wherever you get your podcasts. or find us directly at sidehustlesschool dot com ACast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere AS. com Hello and welcome to the show. I'm Stuart Goldsmith. This is the comedans's Comedian podcast with a lower than usual audio quality in these interstitial pre roll and mid roll and indeed end roll blurbs, like the bits where I'm talking to you, solely because it's London Climate Action Week and I'm away from home for a week and I didn't bring my recording equipment, so I'm shouting this into my MacBook. I can only apologize Today I am speaking to the wonderful Amennette with whom I have a very unique ery unique that's bad English but nonetheless, it is a very unique personal connection, as you will hear. Am Annette has been described by the Guardian as a delight to behold Her debut hour, Thick Skin was a total sell out at Edinburgh and was nominated for Best News Show at the Leicester Comedy Festival. Before being a stand upp, she was an experienced producer, script editor and editorial consultant. and she's got loads to say about that about what we can learn as comedians from someone who is a comedian themselves, but has also been a producer and script editor and all of those things She's currently working on the comedy drama Pretty Face and is back with her new show at Edinurgh this summer. It's called Say What You Like About Me. In the first half, we discuss striving for an authentic persona without making yourself too vulnerable. We'll talk about how Amy's del citizenship shaped her sense of humour. We'll talk about becoming aware of an audience's gaps in cultural knowledge and learn how working with Amy Poher's production company helped her unlearn needing to justify her right to be there. So all of that coming up and more. there's never been a better time to support us. Go to patreon. com slash comcom pod to support this show with three pound a month or more. inststant ad free access to the full video and audio will be yours, including extra content with Amy. I'll tell you more about that in a little bit A in Welcome to the podcast, Avrioette. and it's lovely to see you. I never get to see you. I saw you. I have a core memory of leaving The house that me and Nish lived in, the flat that we lived in Coverdale Road, with pregnant wife in car and possessions in car driving away from my thirties and saying goodbye to you and Nish and Acaster. And I think Rose was there and you waved us off and I was like Oh, goodbye, goodbye. Oh good byye by you Hello hello, new life and old age. And so since that I sort of saw quite a lot of you and and you married me Yeah I mean, this is I mean, I want to focus on your career, but I just also it's about your love. Yes, it was one of the great honours of my life to be theic sort of semi efficient of your wedding Yes, yes. was it was such a wonderful thing and I never see you anymore and it's lovely to see you. So let's start with a spring in our step. You sent me your show. which show? What was the title of that show? I can't remember which one that's all because I've se I feel like I've seen you at festivals and working progress shows at MAC and places like that and then you kindly sent me a whole show which I think is available on next up Yes, busy body Iy b. a terrible name for a girl with a lisp, but By body that was my second Edinurgh S show, the one I did in twenty twenty five, the most recent Ed ot most recent and you're going to Edburgh again, which I know because I ran into in the street at the wonderful Exeter comedy Festival. Yeah And I said, wow, you look tan and I say it again today Yes, but that's because you're pale. so you're you you've got pale privilege and I've got ten privilege withith all the perspectives that come along with it. So let's I mean, let's let's take for we don't let's not take for granted. Let's talk about that brilliant show. I think probably What was the I made a note u of you had a joke about something being like your back hair. None of my business. What was What was the thing you were talking? Yeah, or is it ensions I mean, I to be honest, I say that just in conversation all the time. and u behaviors, my bad habit You like my back habits. Not none of my business and more of a problem for everyone else around I properly laughed out loud and it's so full of I think what's interesting, and I've read a couple of reviews of yours, which I would never normally do where I'm not researching a guest. But I read a couple of your reviews. Interesting because a few of them have said, do you read your reviews? Should I mind do I have permission to o fine. you don't want to s of spring things on people. One of the comments they made, I thought, o, that is actually that's an interesting observation is that like you are a sort of In some ways, I thought there, I thought like, oh part of this show is a voyage around your phone. Y. Do you know what I mean? A cllassic sort of millennial obsession with pop culture and facts and listicalles and things like this. And I learned a lot. I never knew that about Melina Ditrich. Thank you very much. I shall find out more very ADHD friendly show by which I lear lots and lots of subjects. And one of the comments I think the reviews have said is that like if you are a millennial person of this particular age with these particular fascinations, this is like crack, you know. if you are not one of those people How much work do you need to do to connect with those people or do you want to do to connect with those people Be it's very funny everyone's laughing, but there is inescapably like an extra level of juice for people who also You're pressing the nostalgia button as well. Yeah, I'd struggle with that, I think at my core in that I don't 're I think you're right. I don't actually think the amount of culture I've consumed and engaged with over my life that wasn't like about specifically my lived experience where I can still really enjoy. and For example, the TV show Frasier, which I keep thinking about because of his mic right in front of my mou, and I think I look like Rw. But like there's so little in that show that's about me, but of course I can understand it. So I mean, there's a lot about me. Stop talk about Afrasia. fine. The thing I'm trying to say is when I worked in TV briefly, there's a couple things I made a piler and People were like, I really liked it. and then they would weirdly often caveat Of course it wasn't made for me And I was like, it was M for you because it was on national TV. And it was because it was a story about young bllack British like twenty year olds finding themselves in London And but it was broad, it was the writer Bolly Babolola, who I love just went to her wedding. So But didn't you didn't marry her, did you I wasn't alled. Good. I sh thank you not to marry anyone else. Because she no, I have married one of other couples do you, but you'd love it. They were lesbians, lovevely lesbians. My very good friends And I rememberining I was like, no more straight couples, but I will do Same sex, thrplles. I'm into thrplles as well. But no, I think it is a struggle if you are I mean person who has any identity other than let's say quote quote the norm, which is really not me in any other way. You peopleeople feel like isn't for them, you're right. And actually is it Should you cout out and explain things Whereas I have not had other things explained to me I've just understood from context clues and then going later to understand them. things that What is the mainstream? what is the norm? But having said all of that The worst one of the worst gigs I ever did was in Cheltenham, R IP and it was It was to be fair to me. I should not have been opening I was quite early on and obviously they done it in order of experience, which is not how you traditionally book Light now. Good. New Good Anyway, I was first. And looking out at these people who had not taken their coats off because the heating wasn't working, I suddenly was like, Oh, I Ne If not accessible then jokes where I've explained myself to get into some of this stuff because I was talking about think was talking about feminism at that time, like very explicitly feminism and how it had like left behind Soertain types of women and how like it had become co opted by girl boss, all this stuff And they would I could see that they wanted to come with me But I had been so used to doing it in front of people who didn't need terms explained that I hadn't realized what was and wasn't as common as I thought. And so I do think Yes, you shouldn't. If you are talking from your heart and then someone says like, I've never heard that before. That's a positive thing. That's a great experience. and you probably don't need to explain yourself But I do think if you want to talk about Uh, you ideas or Oh Very obvious to you, but not obvious to other people. you kind of doing everyone a disservice if you don't work on getting them there with you Y, that's my line Yes, I think that I was in a did I was a guest on someone else's podcast with a Colombian American comic, brilliant comic called Esteban Gast and he was talking, he does lots of stuff about the climate And he was talking about how he has to assume his audience are smart but don't have context. And I think that was I was like, o, that's a thing I wish I'd said. That's a really good what I mean? Like you have to honor their intelligence and their ability to pick stuff up from contextual clues, But equally they don't necessarily have the context. So I I was having a conversation maybe two days ago with our wife about about whether about the relative value of stuff that's inside baseball which is in itself, if you're unfamiliar with the phrase inside baseball. I've just picked that up from contextual clues. I think it means industry talk, you know, kind of like or specialism sort of talkks I have I had a joke about the IPCC report in which I likened it to Lord of the Rings because everyone pretends they've read the whole thing, but they skipped any bit that involved a council. A lovely joke, but it doesn't explain what either of those things are. It relies on if you know both, you're going to love it. If you don't know one of them, you might get it. If you don't know either, you'll feel completely alienated And we had a sort of discussion about U about which one I should be going for, which type of, you know, do you write to be universal Do you write to be specific in the hope that it will become universal because human human experience is specific Or do you write particularly now what with the internet, millennial Ariette? do you write about your the things that excite you and buzz you because out there they will find an audience And I think that's a much harder needle to thread when you're doing live circuit stuff, especially if a lot of it's in London and then you go to Cheltenam You know what I mean? Like the like are there two sort of comedy worlds? You've got the online world and the live world And and and they never meet or they only occasionally meet Yeah It's interesting isn't?cause I think even without the context of the internet from my experience because I've been in comedy long, I've been doing comedy orr even before the internet became as important as it has become to a comedian's career always still about finding your audience, right? You just found them through doing gigs or any gigs you could and then festivals and then hopefully when you went on tour, there would be enough people come and watch you So I guess like the idea of finding your audience and then showing that audience your freakiestself like like your freak f fly for those people. has always been the case, but you're right, it's something interesting about the internet and the way that people H want to want to engage with things that are so specific, right? Like a specific observation, something that really rings true to them as a person and their identity Maybe that a algorithms, I think prioritize that sort of thing So I don't I mean, I struggle to understand where the line is, I think probably the answer is just makeake sure you're not copping out of writing a joke, right? Like just like observing that it is crazy that There's so many real housewives. franchises For example,, it would be like There would definitely be people in my audience in Edinburgh who would not know who the real housewives were, or even like what that wider world is And if I had an observation about People being obsessed with watching women fight each other, but rich But it's okay if they're rich, you know, like, yes, that was my observation, then exxplaining who the real housewives was would A be useful for me because I could probably get some jokes in there and be probably make the punchline better, right? Be there'll be something In a weird way having to explain yourself should be a dream, right? Because it means that you've got more like stuff to talk about, which is where the joke. Yes. Yes, yes. I say all the time the problems are the material. And if the problem is these people don't know what the thing is, then that's an opportunity for material for kind of explaining it I think it's I think persona is honestly the thing that I find really interesting when it comes to internet life which is that I'm not very good at it, but like I've spoken to someone who is very good at posting like TikToks, for example and they were talking about how the algorithm literally learns what sort of Almost like what lighting or like what sort of framework. So if you always post a straight stand up, it will then get accustomed to that So you could get to a point where you might actually be a very goofy funny silly person, but you've only ever to spit up your're like hard hitting political stuff It just sort of I think as much as you find your niche, they tell you they tell you your niche, right? They co sign your niche and make they sort of trap you in your niche basically God, okay I mean,be I don't know. Maybe no one knows, not even they know I don't think they do know. They don't don'tve I've mentioned this before, but I had you might have had one of these meetings at Edinburgh with like a meta person who wants to help everyone have more successful Instagram reels and what have you. And the way they talk about the algorithm, it's like it's a shining ball of light in a special theetically sealed chamber that they look at and they tap the glass and they go, it seems to like it when people do X,Y, Z And it's like and I'm sure it is like that to an extent. I don't think any it's not like anyone has sort of direct control over it Oh And that that's just all our careers. That's fine. That's really lovely. That's cool. That's nice. I have enjoyed lots of your Instagram output. And you have have you found a thing like what's been your approach with Instagram in terms of putting stuff out there? Do you have particular set of rules or parameters for the sorts of thing you do. Are you still at the stage where because it's qu it's a new ab burgeoning kind of an account. You haven't quite had the explosive thing that I'm sure you will Are you doing like you see some comics who are like, I'm going to try Every available thing. I'm going to do dialog, I'm to do sketch, I'm going to do talking head, I'm going to do a thing while walking I'm going to chuck everything at it and eventually something will stick And then other people are like, no, no, I do this. I've noticed well, I've noticed a thing you're good at, but you tell me what your experience is first. No, you tell me what I'm good at.. Well, I think you're very I feel very taken into your confidence and I feel very like like you know, your stand upp persona is very much like you're a really bubbly, effervescent host at a party Yeah, and I I think I'm a drag queen is what I've decided I am. Oh yes, okay. That basically like not fully like a sort of And this is like It's a praiseed I don't deserve but like my dream is to be like Dorothy Park a drag queen I don't know who that is. Oh, she was a great wit Okay in her dime and she wrote She wrote these She was part of the I think it was I guess it was the nineteen forties. ye, yeah, this is probably never ask a woman a follow up question to you? I'm so sorry.ry never ask the lady a follow up question. No, no, She was a great wit. and she wrote amazing poems and just like amazing one liner She was very, very dry and very. Was she a drag queen? was she a carry? No, no, no, I No no, she's a real lady. Re real person, but like from this is my struggle. Was it the twenties? wasas it the forties? I don't think it was thirties history.ure aboutother that. Yeah. Hist. And she was part of like an almost otherwise entirely male sort of wit group. She had a very famous little bob, like a little sort of and we must say nineteen twenties bob And She She's just an amazing writer, right? And she has like She says, donon't take poison liquors quicker, you know, this sort of thing. know mumy know those things that RuPaul or I've heard RuPaul in an interview say it's great. You need thirty things at your fingertips that you can always say, so you're never stuck for something to say. Yeah. For sure she would be an inspiration in terms of sort of like ly dastardly wit, you know, so my dream is to be basically my dream is to be the woman Green basaceic actle W, love it. loveve it Great. Okay. That's a manifesto. Yeah, yeah, like way too much and only nice in certain situations. but you very like feminine but in like a sort of u sort of the Venus fly trarap way would be my dream in my dre. I could do it I Want to kill men is what I want to say, No. No, no, no. What is saying then? So staying with the idea of persona. to what extent is that a choice of yours? And to what extent is it you looking at the materials I have to work with and the things I go towards Do you sort of mean like how much of that is something you've discovered and how much of it is something that you your aspiring team Well, I wish I wish with all things that I had more of a u you know, like an artist's practice. I wish because in knowing I was coming on this, Id forced myself to sit down to think about like, how do I actually Did you? Oh no, that's I should say the on the email, I should say, donon't do any prep. Don't prepare anything. It's not even prep. it was like force myself to be present. You know what I mean? Like I was like, I don't, I honestly don't know. I mean, obviously I know to my core. I must must have done it. I think that all the time I look at my notbook, I'm like I must have written that But I don't recall. I don't recall ever having a thought in my life, you know, that sort of thing. So I think that my persona is probably So one thing I will say and God I thought I was going to be more succinct on this podcast One thing, will say I have watched so much comedy because when we met in twenty Bting Yes, something like that like that And I was producing comedy and then I went worked in a talent agent, and then I worked for a festival and I worked in TV. So I've done like many of the jobs available in comedy, but all of them involved Edinburgh or watching comedy. And what that does also mean is I've watched a lot of amazing comedians, including yourself go on a journey. Like I've been there for a lot of other people's because I'm a big supporter of everyone, which is I'm not embarrassed it. I'm a f I have I do watch a lot of comies. I know that the closer you can be to yourself on stage whilst still being in control of it And it's still being a choices you're making rather than youre accidentally sort of raw, you know, which can be dangerous, I think The closer you are to yourself on stage, the better the more it makes sense as an audience member, right? Like watching M you know, like for example, Ashling, who kind of who was the comedian who I produced with her boss, one of her her first Edinburgh show. Ashhing kind of came out of the gate. herself, right?. Ashingby got on stage And if you met Ashingby in real life, and you met Ashhingb on stage like There is a lot of control and work that goes into her shows. I was just opening for her on tour And so I got to see That's someone I've watched since twenty twelve to twenty twenty six. They're like I have watched her entire thing. But she has always been able to be Stupid present but O it And yet because she's a trained actor, There is a control there because she is totally herself But it's a version of herself that she has she is offering to you and she's not too vulnerable, right? You're not as an audience member being like God Is She's going to tell me something? Hey, you know, you're not nervous or anything. And that whatever that alchemy is, So to talk about my own persona something I think I've been trying to do is Let myself be myself do the work to make sure that what I'm saying is fully thought because sometimes as you can tell in this bogcast, I will start and I will not know where I'm end. Andan I do that on Da. Well, yes, so I was going to ask about that. How much of your stuff is improvised in the sense of It's sort of not quite I don't think I mean improvised. I mean kind of written on stage because you have a topic and then kind of are effervescent through it and have a point of view as well. And I think that's the other thing that I really associate with you is I remember you did you I can't remember if you contributed to a book on felism or did you had some greater role in the creation of the book But I remember at the time going, Plz ye,m' was writting a b an article in a book, but o. Well, it's certainly at the time it certainly hit me. but It's I remember thinking, oh you've got a really clear firm point of view and I believe that you have done the reading and the research and you know what you think and you're really good at articulating it. So if you have that as a bedrock and you have the effervescent host persona Then I wondered how much of your stuff is written down in a notebook on a laptop and how much of it is you being on stage, being with us and having a thing that you passionately want to say. a bit of both inatchers for sure I'll have the Da. of u example haven't at all figured out what this is going to be. but something I've Tom make that for a very long time is When women do their makeup, because they're looking in the mirror, they smile women off I see themselves like sort of leave themselves in the mirror and just give themselves a wee smile as they go. And I just find it's like very cute and very charming and also speaks to some probably darkness about like feeleing that you should smile even at yourself or something So there's something so that would be the Right. And then I do host the new material night, which I think is very helpful. So often I'll take something like that U that the fact that I've noticed the darkness is enough of a value of an observation to share with people. Like I'm just going and being like,s is there's something like I'll make sure there's some unique thought I've had What I have to always do is take that away and actually write it because I used to do these writing courses for this American college in London So intense, so sweet, so children childildren, American children on When you say used to you do them you used to lead them Yeah I don't know I'm not entirely sure how they found me, but Someone found me and I I've done a few years ago and talking to these American kids. and luck talking to them, at one time I was like, o, yeah, that is it. I was like, G have your observation But then you have to write your joke And like Most people stop at observation, right? because they're very funny with their observation. They've observed something interesting, they've blained it a humorous way. Everyone laughed And then they forget they're like You have to add the joke, which is your point of view, your the soners's point of view or wordpl, or whatever it is, whatever it is your thing. or like your analogy or your understanding of its place in the history, whatever it is, but like you have to add that bit. and I think that's That's my always my. thing that I must I don't do mean anything I I say what you mean I'm very conscious of that's a bit of where I'm always like, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah gonna write big joke at the end. abbsolutely. Yes, gotot. Gotch you. But often you, I suppose for you the The reason you might not otherwise do that is because often your observations are already like with the mirror thing, like that's a really interesting base observation. Leaving herself in the mirror. W, wow. So so maybe yes, I see what you mean. You might need to push yourself then to go And now let's Pin that down. Yeah actually Whatas the joke? Yes. was the humor? Yeah. Tell me then about your pre comedy life as a person who did every other role in comedy production. How did you bring yourself to it originally? And before we do that, you are secretly North American 's why I'm certain I Are you have you got one American and one Canadian parent, do I recall? Yeah correctly? Yeah. Well, I'm from North London and where I'm from Not unusual at all. So many North Americans there Uil I was sixteen I only had a Canadian passport And I remember going on the D you go on a battlefield school trip seem to be a sort of like weird write of passage You just Yes, one or two. ye, yeah. hill, I seem to remember. Yes, I think youre right You you back and yeah, yeah. You take yourself and like one one year if you would I think you've done GC at the anyay. We' got taken to France and we anyway, I just rem really strongly remember realizing that every single person in this dorm room that I was in, we all had parents who are not from the UK Like it was just very just whatate a bit of London I'm from So And none of us had we had real troubles getting back into the country. That's really the end of that story. Me, a Greek lady and three Canadians, we just could not go back in. But despite that, we I'm so English, I think, quite British because I was brought up here. so I I am secretly in North American, it is true. And when I go to the States, I am surprised by how much I fit in Bye p Vibe wise, okay, Yes. Yes, you do seem upbeat now I think I amat. I am a That's why we get on because you have a North American energy, I think, compliment Oh, do I? I do get on well with Americans. They're quite optimistic and ye if you have an idea, they go, yeah, great. Yeah. and also you have a really I can't believe you have a sincerity that from your upbringing background and everything you've done is like should have been beaten out of you long ago Oh well this Thank you. Thank you. This is the opposite of when Helen Bauower appeared on the podcast and we talked about why I was cringe. And I think it's because I'm sincere. And I think that's it. yeah, yeah yeah. I've reframed that now. I've done the work. Yeah, you've done the work Oh my go. If I am cringe, I don't care. because I'm sincere. yeah, that's interesting. Thankk you. That was a delightful observation about me. Listen, Stu, I've known you for a long time. and if you want, we could make this your journey and life know. but you do have an ability to really think about what people are doing and why they're doing it, which is not I mean, not that Americans and Canadians are like particularly better at like thinking about things necessarily. It's more just that that you're right. They just if you have an idea and you speak to a North American Often they'll be like, okay. R? They're just, they're not even like, I'll help you sometometimes they will, but often they're just like Fantastic. I don'tait to see it. And that does is not Yes, the quote I always remember about the difference between British and American culture was it Gary Oldman who said in the States, if a kid sees if an American kid sees a fancy car, they go, one day I'm going to own a car like that And in Britain, if a kids needs a fancy car, they key it. And I have to say, a small part of me is like that's funny then you should key a car. You know what I mean? Like I both sides. But so from my production background when I was working in TV I really strongly One of the coolest things that ever happened to me was I was on a pitch call with Amy Poolar And it was one it was so cool in so many ways. I was not a major part of c but also called Amy. At one point she went to be like I'm the other Amy M We are both Ay But before we got to that point I was pitching stuff to her production company And I really strongly have this memory of almost the nice women the very smart nice woman who worked for her, almost being a bit like chill out. Because I I got so used to having to prove Why I was there, why I thought it was funny exxplain to them why they had to do it And also why I was not too young or too female to be the producer. And like in the UK, you kind of have to go hard, right? And then I could alm feel these American ladies being like You're here So why wouldn't be able to do it? you know, like that is a really Yes. That's a really fundamental difference, isn't it? Yes Yeah. You tell me a bit about just well, well I'd like to hear more about how hard you have to go to prove yourself in those kind of rooms in Britain, as a woman as a young woman tellell me when the best point for us to talk about that is in the journey of the various roles you did. I guess so this is the only thing I was really thinking about before. was like, if I was listening to this podcast and I I was listening to myself thing I think I can too A couple of things I've done as I left EV is I've worked my friend who worked through a court I went in and spoke to her writers about which's what it is to write for TV And I kept being like There's a lot of insside baseball stuff fromom being in the comedy industry You often when you're an audience member or a comedian, you assume that there's a lot more loogic system and practice than there is And I don't blame the producers for that because most producers are hired on a short term contract And they are there to make a specific thing and if they don't make it in a certain amount of time. the end of their contract. So L the system is not really set up for anyone anymore to succeed. but you often are waiting for people to tell you that this idea is good and you are hoping that they will, whereas in fact, you sort of have to tell them cannot they they none of them are paid well enough or the ones who are were paid well enough are there because they've never made a failure. So they don't want to be they don't want to suddenly make a failure and lose their amazing paay job. Yeah. So you have to you have to tell them And I think that is such a difficult thing to understand that when you go into a room and you're pitching a show or anything You are It's not It's it's not a to and fro. It's not a tennis match. Like you have to go in and just smack the ball and be like This is your ball now. you know, that is Yeah. That is that I can totally see the sense of that now. I think in the last couple of years I've experienced that for myself. Now that I have a thing doing the climate stuff that I do, I really I passionately believe it. I know more about it than a lot of people in the room sometimes in a sort of pitching environment. I bet you do ye. And as a result, I feel much more like, o, you should do this. This is the right thing for you to do. And it's such a different vibe. It's such a different feeling. And if I think back to other kind of meetings I've had where I'm like, oh, has the spotlight briefly fallen on me? Do you like me? I'll be here then and do whatever you want. And you're like no, what we want at all You have to do it from you have to it for them. That's the only way I can because obiously it doesn't go its or to be like show offs. whichich is insane thing to say because as a comedian you're doing is ever showing off Howdy, Howdy Ho and welcome to Fantasy Fan feellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fan Girls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson. And I'm Stehven, your bookish internet goofball, but you can call me the Smash Daddy. And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Missborn. But here's the catch. Stehven here has not read Missborn before. That's right, hey, hey. So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chap. And along the way, we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Stehven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert, he'll be wrong. News Flash, I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday and you can find fantasy fan fellows wherever you get your part Monday AI agents took over my work And I absolutely love it. Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders, agents handle the daily grind now. They live inside Monday dot comot So they see the full picture, My work, my team, the whole company. And I don't have to worry about the data. It's safe, which means I'm free to focus on the big stuff, knowing everything runs smoothly in the background It's completely shifted the way we work. Create your own AI agent in minutes on Monday d. com So this is Amy. Amy Annette, sayay What you like about me is at the Pleasant Dome in Edinburgh at five thirty from the fifth to the thirtieth of August. You can find out all dates and more at Am Annette. net. That's rather sweet. Amy Annette. net and you can keep up to date on Instagram at the Amy Annette. I'm going on tour myself for the first time in a very long time with my new climate comedy show Canary It's fair to call it a comedy show because it is a funny show. It's not all about the climate, but It's not all about the climate. I'm going to be in Edinburgh at Cabvaall. That's Cabaret Voltaire, the Uninitiated at the Monkey Barrel from the seventeenth to the thirtieth of August at two twenty five PM, which is the second two weeks, the final two weeks of the I keep I don't know how to say it the second two weeks If you count the first two weeks as a unit, it's not the second and third week. it's the second lot of two weeks. It's the second half basically. And so two hundred twenty five at Campvaall, come and see that. all your details at Stuartgoldsmith. com And then I'm going to be on tour in Cambridge, Glasgow, Oxford, Manester, Carniff, Midenhead, Sheffield and Birmingham. and then the tour will culminate on the eighteenth of November with the biggest headline show of my young life old suuper excited about that. Stuart Goldsmith. com slash comedy to find out about tickets and you can also sign up for the Komcom pod monthly mailing list, which is now a real thing which evil prodroucer Callum makes me sort out and as a result I can confidently say for the first time in my life is a regularly occurring thing. Coming up in the second half, we're going to talk about how long development processes donon't necessarily mean that things are going badly, huge relief to me' been working on this ladady' show for two and a half years now We'll talk about why audiences crave the resolution of a setup We will talk about how reviews describe women's comedy as vibe whilst crediting men's comedy as craft, and we will learn James Acaster's piece of advice that changed everything. Let's get back Amien. ume that when you go into this spike keeping spaces to them whether or not you do or don't do it, which it is obviously literally up to them, but they need to be told they need to be told because there's so many decisions that they have to make that like if you have any prevarication or any wavering, you're like, I don't know, maybe it's like, oh well I'm going to have to fight for this show for up to four years. So I have to hundred percent believe. And that's the other thing I would tell people, you want to work in TV, it's a very long game And it doesn't mean that you're doing badly. Like Jamie Dimitri when I was working talent agency. he was my boss's client and I was there when he did the black For staff And then I left four years later and he still hadn't made the series So that entire time he was developing show And now that's one of the great shows that have come out of UK comedy, but for a very long time pushing and fighting and changing and It just, you know, there was a confluence of situations in which he got the green light Head of Channel four went to a gig he was doing. So it wasn't even just as simple as like, it was the right idea at the right time. Someone who had a lot of power was like, this is great. And someone was like, we have a show Yeah yeah. Okay great okay. okay. Basically don't take it personally. Do be confident And Just tell people you're the best even if you obviously internally couldn't agree with anything that I hope you can make my insects more smart Ah, well, let's talk about that. and that means we'll have to keep in all the sneezing stuff, that's fine. Let's talk about that. The do you suffer from the thing that I think is best typified by I can't remember who did the sketch. What's the sketch? with the American women meeting in a park and they're all going this o this old thing. Oh I love this. Oh God, no, it's dreadful, isn't it? One of them goes, thans, it's really good. And the others are like You bitch What I mean? Like if you believe in yourself, do you know the sketch? I'm so annoyed I can't I can't. Is it Baroness Vondne S sketch show Manadian? No, I don't think so. No, it isn't. It's someone famous in American like it might I don't think it's Amy Poolar, but it's that of someone of that ilk. This is agetic example. I'm sorry, now, and I wish I knew more too, but yes. and in fact, I've got some stuff in my show about help bad that we are at taking compliments and how thing it is when Americans hate them. You just said loads of really interesting, insightful stuff and then reflexively automatically said, oh Godd, you're going to have to make me look clevever in the edit or something, which is nonsense. tellell me about that Well, I've spoken to Sellia AB about this. I think When you're a young woman, you make a choice sometometimes consciously, sometimes unconsously. Are you going to be or smart And because there's a lot of work to do either right? So you got to choose one. And there is a third option which is just like quiet. And Wh Oh God. and respect to those women, because what they have decided is what is the point of me? I am very interesting and fun And you will get to know that when you get to know me But I'm not gonna fight for your attention. And to be honest, if anything, those are the happiest women that I know, you know? Okay They're the ones are the slow burn people that when you become friends with them, you're like, You're amazing. How did I not know this? And then they're like, because when we were all hanging out, I wasn't like dancing in front of you doing the jazz hands, you know, like in a way But maybe this is a comedian thing I think Trying to be a smart girl is almost as much of a trap because Some of it also obviously comes down to what is your personality when you're a kid and like what you got. told you were good at and all that stuff. and there's a lot of stuff I know you have a daughter as well about being like prodigal Basically often young women are quite good at the early bits of school for whatever reason, and then they're told like, oh, you're smart And then those girls internalize that. they're like, I'm a smart girl And then they meet something that they aren't immediately good at. like language or For me, like math Maths Thank you. So sorry. the mask slipped for a horrifying moment there. Don't take my passboard And we internalize that. And so then when you meet something that you're not immediately good at, you're like, oh I will never do this because what you haven't learned as a young person is that there's a difficult thing and if you do some work You can get good at it, right? And you don't learn that process. All of which is to say That is my personality. And so then I think wanting to Not even wanting people to think you're smart, but caring that You are doing the ideas you have justice can be really positive, obviously because it means but then I yeah it can be a trap, I think because then you're thinking more like What is the Have I used the right word in the right context rather than just sort of honestly communicating Is that answer? Is that answer? She s Well weeping into the mic. Is there? could you Can someone do classes for female comics to help them feel more entitled Like you could like get a shot of mediocre white manan entitlement or something I mean? because I feel like that would be You know, I don't know. I don't know. it sort of feels patronizing. We know what we're tal about here. I just know what a shame' not shame No, it's not patrized what you're saying. And also it's even more than that though, it's that you uh you are judged more harshly M crying sometimes, I think it's a woman. If I think if a woman tries to do something smart, let's say or like engage with a big idea and say I'm interested in, you know An economics idea, for example. You then have to be so hyper confident and I think you almost have to say out loud, I'm very smart The storm. people will get on board with you. and I think You I mean, as we know. as that I also know from reading a lot of reviews of female comics. O they are doing very intricate structural things But the review will say something like They're such a fun vibe. They're wacky And you're like, sure. Yeah, absolutely, but also like, for a men's review, sometimes they'll write the joke out which is obviously bad form Yeah. but like I've noticed that very few female comedians have their jokes written out in their reviews. I think it is because So to idea. that they are crafting and writing and it's all about like, what a great verbe Yes.. God, that's such a good observation Oh, I'm annoyed. I didn't notice that myself. Yes, I completely I I feel like this isn't a scientific response, but I get I'm sure I've I've seen that. That tends I think I u I agree with you without having the stuff in front of me. likeike I definitely I see a lot of men having their jokes written out don't think I've seen that as much with women because it's exactly as you say. The sense is that either they're funny or they're not, whereas they're not a craftsperson like a man would be. Yeah Yeah, which I find and Obviously, I find exhausting, but in a way it's kind of charming because what you can then obviously do is be like Well, I'm not being judged proper You know what I mean? It's like, oh, I don't have to take this super seriously because I've noticed, again, this is the great joy of being in comedy before doing comedy. I've noticed this thing. And then when I'm doing it, I'm like Try to remember the thing that you know. But but I do feel very strongly like there was an amazing play with Zoe Koombs Ma. Ursula Martinez and I think Adrian Tresa and it was called Wild Bar and it Tagline was like, it's about criticism. And I was I did go and I was a little I don't love hearing people talk about criticism. In so matches you just want to be like Lve your best life. Be f H The thing I always remember is Zoe Komes Marbearet she talked about how she did a show where ends the show sort of like sweeping up all the mess that she's made and it's you it's part of the show obviously. And the review was like But my favorite bit Re really unintentional When we watch Zoe clean up all the mess AndZoy and the show is like The doors were shut. The lights were down. Like you have done way more work to make it an accident than the reality. So I think All of which is to say I do agree that women should have more confidence because I do think u Why not? but also is hard when you' all the work you do is very rarely and seem. es, Yes, acknowledged. As in like this is some really great craft Pasco Pasco gets it, I think, and that is because she is so good at pointing out the like craft of her work, I think. L I think people might a pasco joke Yes, is she the sort of is she effectively doing that thing you said of saying out loud, I am smart? Yeah. She's sort of doing that, isn't she? Yes. Yeah. And she God. So she is my like what I'm thinking about when I think it might good smart girl comedy. like Yes, L still her person, she's totally herself pretending to be someone else, but She doesn't you know that she's in charge of everything she's saying, and you give her the credit for it And she doesn't do, she doesn't ever do. oh gosh, you'll need to fix that in the edit. ever. Exactly, exactly, exactly. Yeah, veryy good. That's a really that's another very interesting observation Let's talk about We were talking about your so your producer and then you worked for an agent. I've basically had every job you could have a comedy. This is so fun. So tell us about the inside story becauseuse no one ever talks about agents because they've all got a good relationship with their agent or a horrible relationship with a former agent that they slag off anonymously and try and not make them visible. But from the inside, what are some of your observations about how comedy works from the perspective of agents that maybe comics don't realize So the only caveat to that is that I worked for an agency that had a newer comedy department but was actually mostly writing and acting. So I've not worked in the like pure comedy space in terms of agents, which I think might be slightly different. but My main observation is these are people doing a job. and as much as you want to have an emotional relationship with them and as much as they want to have an emotional relationship with them do have to remember that they They should at six thirty because they all work t six thirty for some reason stuck off and have children and stuff. and like I sometimes think the emotional relationship that people want to have with their agents is maybe and are kind of almost unfair on the agents, to be honest. Like I totally get why it happens because person, a human who's making art often about yourself. And so then someone is like, I would like to have a professional relationship with that version of you. So I get I know why it happed But I think that in that In that space, if good agents are wonderful and we'll support you, that's where bad agents or like cowboy agents can really exploit people. because basically signed your soul over, right? You're like, this is my soul, which I found a way to put on stage. and now will you take some percentage of money for me? Like that I think that that the intimacy of that relationship, I totally understand what happens, but it can actually be very dangerous. I think the people if they're not securing themselves and that's one thing I've seen is, you know, agents who have now long are not even agents anymore Their clients were berefted And it's like, oh, but you were a comedian before I think the intimicacy of that relationship, if the agent is responsible can be wonderful, but is a real it's a danger thing Yes, I think the advice I give to newer acts who are meeting agents is that it's a bit like a kind of dating relationship, whereby you don't want to go in and say, I'm really desperate for children. I need you. you know. Instead, you need to sort of do the dance and play the game to an extent. There's a sort of a negotiation aspect to it because you are after all, dealing with a professional relationship whereby, and I came to it from the first agent I had was an actor's agent, I was an actor for a few years And that was such like if you've got an agent, then you're a professional. And if you don't, then you basically can't be. You can have a co op and who knows whether that'll work if you're lucky to to kind of get that So there's this enormous kind of invested energy in kind of going I'll only be proper if this relationship works out. And I think that's the antithesis of what you're describing, which is that self confidence of look, I've got a career anyway It's very similar to the going and, you know socking the tennis ball at the producer. Yeah I'm good. I've got stuff to offer. I need someone to help me negotiate the work. becausecause I'm best at doing the work And I think that's so to return to that kind of the relationship analogy. It's like, I do, I have seen relationships with agents that felt like, oh, codependent relationship or unhealthy relationship that you might be better out of Yeah But who can who can bring that up? And I've seen it both ways, right? Like I know it sounds like I'm like agents are dangerous. I am not saying that. I have seen, especially to be fair, this is more acting than comedy, but like You know, I've seen agents have to take calls that at they're like father's funeral because someone needed's like the problem, I just think there is a I don't know. L almost a federalization of that codependency that is I. But I say some of that as I don't I have an agent who is my friend who I used to work with and we used to weep together industes because we are both runners at the same time they're like But she is more of a writing agent and a producer's agent, and that's how we started working together So for a lot of like comedy stuff, I do that on my own So I think I haven't yet actually had the experience of like necessarily working with a comedy agent, you know, someone who's like in the game. So I can only really speak from the side of the agent, we had Yes, Yes. okay, gotcha. What What need in you does comedy satisfy H Not to scat likeike this and I I love being understood and B naturally in conversations bring up e and facts and things and try to connect them. That is almost certainly ADHD, but like the sort of need to be like, well, that's that because of that which conversation, I think, can be exhausting is probably something, something in me really alkes The connecting of dots and I think stand upp really works well for me for that and like bringing ideas together increasingly, I now realize as well, like I person if I have one is just like me but a bit more high status and a bit sort of like satier to men And yes I I get a lot out of that as well. Okay, okay Um I should have a follow up question to that, but I do not because part of my brain was thinking we've gott to wrap up soon. I know. I don't. Have I said anything good? Yes sorry sorry sorry't This is the this was suggested by Brendan Burns recently, notot specifically about you. this is the Stew whoo Memorial question. I don't know if you would ever have gigged with wonderful Stew Who died a little while ago. Bess him You don't say bless him, do you say RIP? I don't think he mind. No, I don't say RIP about people who have actually died No Oh I see you say RIP had a comedy W ye Yeah, there's you know, like Louis CK RIP. Yeah R IP. yeah, I did that. You in comedy in Chelham, RIP.? Yes, Okay. So Stew Who, bless his heart. He was a delightful, funny person who was very kind to me and the Brendon Burns Stu Who Memorial question says what who was the journeyman hand on your shoulder when you were ready to quit? was there? And this is specifically like a journeyman in a kind of or a journey person a comic who you regarded as a sort of a kind of a sort of trusted elder person of comedy who said something useful to you early doors. Like I've probably had little encounters like this pre podcast becausecause obviously the podcast is me effectively soliciting a lot of that stuff. But I would have had encounters with, for example, Tom Stayade or Iancognito where we were on the road together. I was driving there and they were the headliner. I had a tough gig and they said something Nice about it. Yeah If I think about journeymen who have been around me, I think I'm lucky in that I I have honestly truly accidentally managed to sort of friendriendship wise surround myself with amazing comedians like Everyone is I don't I have a sort of like an a a confusingly successful friendship group, which I will say was like tough for me going into property, You know because I was like, I. I know what it looks like when you do very well. Yeahah. let's pause and just talk about that. That's a funny that's a funny and lovely vulnerable thing to say. Yes. So what so you've got very successful comedy friends and that must be hard when they're all streaking ahead and wning awards and being some of the best and Bryice' comics. Well, I mean streaking ahead suggest we start at the same time. Like these are people who are like it's almost like I was like paddying for various inccredible for me to use golf a sport I do not understand. I was paddying for veryer fantastic golfers. We know them and they don't need themames and I suddenly was like, hey guys. Maybe I hit the ball this time, you know? Like to be fair, it wasn't quite like that, because I obviously didn't do comedy in front of them for a very long time. I was doing it a way separate on my own, doing open mes secret in secret or just secret. But just, you know, they're not there so they don't see.. No, not secret. I mean I to be honest The real truth is nobody cared. Nobody cares, Nobody cares, right? Yeah People have come up to me like it is that you did it And I will say that was Yeah, a little awkward for sure to look at a lot of people who are professionals at a thing and be like, I now would like to also Do this. And then, you know, I think early on I probably got I did a spot place was too good for me. and I felt that. and I like, okay, I don't want that anymore. I need need to go further away from this world that I have some access to So yeah, I think there's some of that, but mostly is realizing that nobody cares. And also that comedy is not like a thing that you can like inherit. So There's no one way in, really. So there's no You know, there are other things where it would be odd if I had started to do it Doing stand upp is not that. if you keep going, obviously you have to Work hard and try hard definitely the opportunities because I know people I know and I got opportunities because I worked in comedy for so long that by the time I was like, I would like to do stuff, I'd already spoken to those people, but just for other people Thank us Certainly it was helpful in its own way, but most of the comedy, obviously is doing stand upp, but the rest of it is just getting your head The industry, right? So in some ways, I did comedy separated it over two times of my life. Yes, I don't I still don't feel like I've got my head across the industry. If I think about how flluent and articulate and confident I am with some of the sustainability people with whom I now work in different context, performing with them, collaborating them on things like that And then I'm in a room with comedy people of equivalent Uh Ilk I feel like, o, I'm not that guy anymore because I'm just I'm just another fucking comic and I'm just yet another one who and there's always this base assumption for me that anything I say is obviously craven and needy. just because I speent a long time feeling very much on the outside and like not entitled. I felt I have a certain amount of entitlement like, oh yeah, I can stand in front of people and try and make them laugh zero entitlement when it comes to there are super strructures in place here that I don't know and have never been inside of and I have no perspective of. So I feel that very it's really interesting I'm interested to note that in myself the other way round and go, oh yeah, I think that's a really good way round that you've done it. Maybe given that now comedians are all expected to be producer editors and CEO's of a battle one Maybe everyone should start with like, I want to be a comic, what do I do? First get a job as a runner. you got a job as a runner? Now start assistant producing and quietly do some gigs on the side. Yes, exactly. Yeah, have the knowledge that everything you learn in that time will definitely come back. Yes, for sure Also most of it is just like understanding that there is no super systemstem, as I think I've said Yes Yes. There' system. There is That's why I brought it up is because I wanted to just drill that into my head, Stuart, There are no superersystems. I continually feel at the outside of something. No No, you were in it, babe But also more than that, there's no in it to be in, better. Like you are Bab? I am Bab. we are not there's no Bed together. You know there it's very different. And also there is superstructures though, but they are Let's say it poverty, inequality, racism. It's like those things are there for sure. So I'm not saying that' not systems, but they're not there's not some like magical coterie of people who know what's going on really Yes Let's makeake it tntil you make it. loveove it Thank you. Is there anything is there oh, I tell you what we haven't done Are you happy? Is that a good answ by byy what I consider happiness? Yeahah I'm not sad being silenced too. I must say wor. Don't let the table to be silent because not when I'm silent, people say things like, Oh yeah, yeah. I'm not sad. That What a wonderful answer. You were doing a really good you're very good at and obviously fantasy Mth Marthur u N, Stewart move on to someone else. Anything else we didn't cover that you in your preparation. Have you made it? Did you bring notes? Did you make notes? Yes what I wrote was M advice writing, which was just like you just have to also write the joke. have the observation, wrrite the joke. I think the only other thing I wanted to say was I did a radio show and it was special. And the reason I would talk about it from outside of just showing offent just really asking people to listen to it was it's called I Survived the Naughties and it was a half hour version of my first show which to call back to a previous question, was a show in which I did not necessarily explain reference this because I was very much talking about being a millennial teenager. And if I did that show again was my first show. If I did that show again, I think I would enjoy explaining stuff more rather than just sort of hurt like going through it. But anyway,s that's the journey with that. I in that show happened and then I did another show, but in that time they got the commission to do the half hour comedy version So then I worked with a script editor called Sarah Campbell I know Sarah County. she' great. yes. Such a good writer, a great performer when she was in her sketch group, with Amy Hoggart Christmas for two The thing that means true is I can remember every sketch group from the twenty se. But she is an amazing writer and she and the producer Lindsey Fanner and together, and especially with their Very lovely lady. We spent hours a zoom mee and Sarah And she really was good at asking me what I meant Right? I think a lot of times I think it's really it's so obvious what think I'm saying and Y less obvious. And some of that is just brain fiz, right? Like if the way that you come up with things is being like that's crazy, then you don't If the process isn't slower, then maybe you don't understand that what youve you've jumped A to C and you must hit B with your audience members and She was very good at doing that. So I've finally had the experience of working with someone whose entire job is to make me a bit more legible. And that has been That's great. That's great, great shout out for them and them And also that is really that's really interesting in terms of being made more legible. Yes. The I said I've said out loud to audiences before because I'm a self indulgent idiot But don't worry in a work in progress gig, I'd say, don't worry, that is funny. It's just that I have failed to successfully communicate to you what I find funny about it. That's nice toar myself say, to remind myself back when I listen to the recording. And also the amount of times that you assume that you've messed up a joke because it's a bad joke, and then you would listen back and you're like, oh yeah, forgot to say that bit Yes. You the cre the the people are people's brains Great connection, right? Like That's why my great obsession, I'm sorry to do this because I know we must end this podcast. but On Instagram, there's this great a few people, if you ever stop to watch a video on Instagram, which is like, I want to stop being addicted to my phone You start getting all these other videos being like, getet off your phone, which I find very funny. Like someone just being like, Hello, get off your phone now. Dream. But one video I got was about explaining how anticipation is the thing that is killing us. So the video starts with a very grainy video of a man who's visibly about to trip over a bucket, right And I'm watching this video, I guess unconsciously being like, Oh we to watch this man trip over a bucket. And just as a trip is about to happen, a man comes onto the screen and he's like Participation is keeping you on this app becausecause your brain is obsessed with the sort of the fulfilling the end of whatever thing it thinks is about to happen. Yes, okay. And I really understand that. L also if I was on YouTube, I wouldn't like search grainy video man tripping over a but. No, of course, of course, of course. But when it pops up I'm like, yes, please must know. I want to do the trip So I think stand up If you give people or if you give them the grainy video of the man with a bucket You know, their brain is like,, yes, please, yes, please. And so then you give them the solution or the surprise, whatever the thing is that you do And it's so satisfying to the brain. like o my God like if it worked, right? That's how I feel when a joke is like My brain is like, it's this. Oh, it's dad. you know, like that that is so joyful And Tessa Coach once told me that laughter is an evolutionary response to surprise sounds good and I won't look into it. So when I read it. I think you You've gott to take people on the journey way more than you real because their brain needs to have all the A and the B because they're desperate then for C Brilliant.ri and so technical and so smart. Finally so resiant. I'm very lucky to be surrounded by, as I've said, friends who are really good comedians. so I'm lucky in that I think I get a lot of tidbits here and there. For example, the other day I arrived for dinner with James Aaster and I was sort of flustered because I had a preview think the next day and we had loads of notes and stuff. And I was trying to just be like, how do I get this all together? I just feel like I don't understand what it is. and he said, you should film yourself, for example. He was like, I know you record. I do audio recording. He was like, film your preview They It's amazing how much you're giving away or not giving away in terms of with your face and stuff like that. And maybe also when you to him and for me, I find that if I listen to things I can kind of tune out because I thought you know I think if you're watching something, maybe you're engaged That's a sort of example of like a tidb bit that I'm lucky enough to sort of from the table of my friends But then I you know, give them a lot of good emotional advice back It's give and take. But Journey Man, hand on shoulder, gazillion percent Ashling B Ashling has been and you know this, if she is one of the great supporters, right David Rdohery is too, so maybe it's an Irish thing. Like they're really like they congratulate their friends. David is introducing you He'd be like This is Stru but he's an amazing comedian and he has the most listened to comedy podcast in the world. Like everyone is the best at the what they do. And Ashling was just really good. I mean, they don't say about themselves. Theyre humble, but other people. And Ashling was always really good at just being like You You can do a lot of things. And you just need to choose one thing and work hard at it. Just because you can be a good assistant or You just because you can do stuff doesn't mean that you spend your time doing it, like what you actually Where do you get the joy? I mean, she didn't say like that, but she basically was like workork hard at a thing you care about rather than just being generally good at other stuff And because she said, you can do it. that's basically what she said. She was like, I'm not worried about you doing it, you just actually actually have to do it Yes. Yes. Yes I've said that to a friend of mine recently. he feels he has much more potential than he's actually doing anything with. And I was like, yes, but we all have It's all potential. It's actually about your ability to execute on it. So stop worrying about potential and either do the thing or don't do the thing. Yeah. and also don't worry about potential because that is stopping you. It's not that you have potential and you're not doing it. It's your obsession with potential killing your ability to make something bad, because then you can't make something good