Viral Clips and Future Projects

Stuart here, you can go to Stuart Goldsmith dot com slash comedy for tickets to my national tour. That's right. I'm taking my second ever climate comedy show. It's called Canary. I'm taking it the Edinburgh Festival for the last two weeks of August at the mononkey Barrel at Cabaret Voltaire. and I shall see you there in the last two weeks of August and then it's a national tour for this guy. Cambridge, Glasgow, Oxford, Manchester Cardiff Maiden Head, Sheffield andirmham culminating in my biggest ever tour show at Bristol Old Vixs, Stewart gooldsmith. com slash comedy for all your tickets. Hello and welcome back to the show. I'm Stuart Goldsmith. This is the Comedians's Comedian podcast. It's episode five hundred and twelve G! All hell, hypnoted. Today I am talking to Joe Wells, fabulous Joe Wells, first known as a political comedian with shows like Night of the Living Tories, and that's a fact I only remembered about three quarters of the way through this interview Because more recently he is known for his excellent very funny and very meaningful shows exploring mental health and being autistic and neurodiversity more generally. or neurodivergence more generally. I can never remember which one is plural and which singular. Joe has also written for Have I Got News for You for Frankie Boyle's New World Order and as well as being a very funny stand upp. He hosts the podcast neuro divergent moments with Abigalayah Shaman and he's got a new book out Where's his new book? Oh it's called Neurodivergent Moments. and it's out now in all good bookstores, all the terrible ones as well. Try not to buy it from Amazon if you can. and his tour show Joe Wells Daddy Autism is on tour later this year. You can find out all the info and more at Joe Wells. org. uk Classic Joe Wells web address there, never one to follow fashion. In the first half, we're going to talk about how performing for a neuroodivergent audience can change the mechanics of live comedy. We'll talk about the impact parenthood has on the kind of comedy you want to make. Imact impact of parenthood. sureurely not. We'll talk about why Joe stopped blaming tough gigs on the audience And we'll talk about how comedy can be a tool for processing your own neurodivergence. Yes, I think the audience are neurodiverse and the self is neurod divergent. But I will be embarrassed to realize I'm wrong. so let's hedge it for now. There's never been a better time to support us. There's only three of us on the team and for three pounds a month, you get access to instant ad free versions of the full video of this episode and the audio. extra content with Joe more on that later, the new formats and A every week and a lovely warm fuzzy feeling of knowing that you've contributed financially to a thing you love and I do that to very few things and I do feel good about them. I also feel entitled And why haven't read an Ivan from the Borgor and Swords podcast, doneone Mrter In betweenetween yet, hh That's a story for another time because this time It's time for Joe Wells Welcome to the show, Joe Wells. It's such a pleasure to have you on. Where in the world are you? Where are you coming to us from? I'm in my hometown of Portsmouth where I live and have always lived and I love it here That's so nice. I'm a big defender of my hometown You know, I think it's sort of fair 's fashionable to people imports I did the Portsmouth hundred anniversary of being a city they did like a comedy gig. and at the end of it, I said, o I'm really pleased to be here. I really think I travel around and I see the Portsmouth was a really brilliant city and people thought I was making a joke, but genuinely I think it's really lovely. If you're a big supporter of Portsmouth, that makes it sound like there are quite a lot of detractors What do people we'll get ono actual comedy in a minute, but just by way of warming up. What do people have a go at Portsmouth about? I don't think I've got any feelings either way. I think well I think and what I like about Portsth is we don't get too up ourselves that you know, there are other cities where they're very proud to be from there. I think if you did a gig in Portsouth and you say, what is Ports of like It would be milliseconds before someone shout out out shitole. But actually It is quite nice. We've got lovely common. we've got lovely sort of things going on culturally. It's great But we don't like to be too proud of it Oh, that's humble. humble ye, exactly. I'm sort of excited that you're managing to live somewhere that you love and that you're from and that you didn't have to move to London and you have a family, you have a child. How old is your child? In the book, your child is only six months old U She's eighteen months now So yeah, she's she can climb things now and she's got a cold all the time she. So yeah, she just she everything is because you've got children too haven't you? two. Everything is covered in snots and But you're sort of happy Yeah It's covered in filth all times And so I suppose where we're meeting you, my assumption is that we're meeting you in a really good place in your life and your career, are we Yeah, I'm very, very happy and I think that It's interesting because I There was a period when the when the baby was, I think I'm just coming out of a period where I found it very hard to write comedy because I'm very very happy and fulfilled and that's not always a good space for comedy. No one wants to hear that at a comedy club. they want to hear sort of And I think all comedy Not all comedy, but the majority of comedy is sort of cynical to some extent Yeah And I think I found it cards It's very hard to go out and be like, o, I love my baby very much and I'm very tired but I don't mind because I'm happy and you know and that's Very hard to make that funny But I'm finding ways to be cynical now. Yeah. Yes, that I think I never I think I had a comedy epiphany when I became a parent and had something real to complain about for once Yeah, yeah. Well's that there's that as well is there where I think it's u You can't be I guess a lot of my comedy has been quite like introspective as well, particularly the little more recent stuff that's been more successful And you don't have time to be introspective because you've got to feed a baby So I think a lot of that sort of U What's naval gazing? Is that what I do? Y Yeah looking for naval gazing. Searching the self, how do I react to the world? How does the world Yeah Eactly any kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. and there's not as much space for that But then there is you are going out and meeting more people and doing more things and so there's space for other things But it sort of force, I don't know whether you found this, but it sort of forces you to to write a different kind of comedy. Yes Yes, for sure. And the kind of comedy that you alluded to there in terms of like your more recent most successful stuff your last three are you currently on tour with your Yeah, so I'm between yeah, there was a leg last year and then there's going to be another leg in the autumn ye. Okay. Okay, so that's daddy autism. And your previous two shows, I think were King of the Autistics and I am autistic And wor he Brendon Burns? what that guy needs is an angle. Yeah. Yeah. Talk to me, talk to me about your talkalk to me about the extent to which your material about autism and your kind of ownership of that space. let's not say ownership. I mean, you have a sort of faux ownership, King of the Autistics, you know, But the fact that you have really lent into talking about that and building an audience who want to hear you talk about that Talk to me about whether that was a surprise to you or whether it was kind of Well, yeah, definitely a sort of fau ownership bit and that show King of the Autisics was all about how representation is something which we're made to feel is rationed out and we're made to feel like If someone else is taking up that space, then then that sort of detracts from us. and So so yeah, so I definitely and I know you were joking, but you know, I don't feel like I own it and and I'm very excited about all the other people talking about neurodivergence and autism and etcetera. U Yeah, I mean so there's a few things. So I had an informal diagnosis as a child, which I D't. There's two versions of events. One my mother where I was told about this and one for me where I don't remember being told about this. But that all came out in my late twenties. I did a show I used to lots of political stuff And I think it made me realize that I liked the political stuff because I liked shouting and I liked sort of ha' Yeah, that idea of sort of cathartic comedy And a lot of that came from being quite U you know, having things which which weren't being I didn't have an unhappy childhood. but having things where, you know, struggles that I wanted that I felt sort of A unhappy about So yeah, so I wrote a show when that sort of all came out and then I had the formal diagnosis as an adult I wrote a show about that. became quite interested, I guess a lot of the sort of theory around Neurodiversity and autism, people like No one will know who these people are, but people like Jim Sinclair and Donna Williams. Damiid Milton's double empathy problem U A lot of the stuff I was writing was sort of coming from reading sort of I guess like theory about autism in neurodiversity and then're putting jokes into it U And like anything, you know, I think that I was doing stuff that peopleople liked And then, you know, I obviously like We're always like, I'm sure it's similar with your stuff. if people are paying you money to do a certain type of thing, and you're happy to do that thing and you're interested in that thing, then you will do more of thing. So it it's you know, there was u It has some success from it and people wanted to come and see those tour shows and liked that comedy where I was exploring those ideas and I had more to say about it U so it has been three shows, but I would argue that they each say quite distinct things about neuro divergence and on autism, I think that they have clear I I think it's the thing that I was saying as well about having a baby that like, I think a lot of time I've used comedy to sort of work things out for myself and And I think the first I' first I'm autistic, which is on YouTube was sort of me working out like myself being autistic and what do I do with with that information And then the next one King of the Autistics was about being autistic and being a performer and being in a space where You're expected to be representation, expected to be a role model. And you know, how I don't wantan to be someone that speaks for autistic people. but also there's I've got a platform so U you know, I am whether I want to or not. there's going to be an element of me speaking for autistic people and I want to you know, I want to sort of u I think it's useful to share my experiences whilst also sort of lifting up other experiences. And then the most recent one was about having a child and aboutort discussions around genetics and you know, screening and those sorts of things and knowing that statistically my child is more likely to be autistic And was also about my relationship with my father who was very much not autistic And and the idea that neurodiversity includes all brains. so includes people like my father and sort of like I feel like I have a much better, I don't know whether he feels it or not, but I feel like I have a much better relationship with my father having written that show. So yeah, I think a lot of my stuff has been working myself out for myself and also people have been interested in what I've been doing. So I've sort of, you know, there's there obviously is an element of If people want to see you do a certain kind of thing, then there's an incentive to do more of it But u But I wouldn't do it just for the sake of it, you know? No for sure I Given that I didn't suggest that you would do it just for the sake of it. you pointed out that you didn't do it for the sake of my insecurity? Well, I wonder is that an insecurity? Do you worry that people might think that Yeah, I do yeah, I do U But I think that's probably my own insecurity more than anything else. But u Yeah. And I think that there's I've always taken a bit of an approach with particularly like fringe show titles having them really on the nose because I find that's just a goodood way to mark do a lot of this actually like I think licks with like class and comedy where You know, even though I'm doing okay now, I've always like at least felt like I needed to make money from comedy. So at the end of frge I was doing the free fringe and I had a year when I did this was twenty sixteen. I did a show called Ten Things I Hate About UKip U, which was a contemporary reference at the time Sh title was quite funny. It's very on the nose. People knew exactly what kind of thing it was going to be But it had big you know, I had no profile at all then, you know, I'd done a few sort of support slots for some higher profile people, had a couple of sort of reviews But you know, I wasn't known at all but having a title at that brought people in So I think that u Since then I've always had show titles which have been fairly on the nose and I think that's because I wanted to get people in to my free friending shows so that I could have some money. That was part of it. And then And I've always taken the approach of, you know be sort of as cynical as you want in the marketing, you know, markarket it in whatever way gets people in the door and then on stage do something that's creative and makes people think and you know, that's your art, but my show title isn't the art, the art is the It' the show That's really interesting the kind of class sort of vector of that or the interface with class in that it's almost The It's almost a privilege to be ambiguous in one's marketing because it sort of suggests that your primary thing is the art rather than needing to make some fucking money Yeah. Yeah, and listen, I feel like I' fraud because I'm not from poverty and I have married well. but I But you know, I that fresh or I am autistic. I wanted to call everything as an attempt to be human which was a reference to a William Blake painting. I and something that I sort was explored in the show if I was someone that had you know, ten grand to put into a big marketing budget and fill the room with that. I would call it everything as an attempt to be human I didn't have that you know, I had my u My social media following and the free fringe. so I called it I'm autistic because I thought people will know exactly what that is it'll be at lunchtime. People will go, I have some connection with that topic come I'll come and see it. But it's the same show that I was going to call Everything is an attempt to be human and the you, just one sort of looks like high art and One doesn't. you made a jo. I saw I saw I am autistic on YouTube and I was halfway through King of the Autistics as well. Really, really funny. I did I did wonder, well there are some particular things you do we'll talk about the craft of those shows in a little while because you talk about kind of script flips and there is this that you're very, very good at like the planets have aligned. I don't know what the term is, maybe it's the same term, but where you kind of go, I'm talking about one thing whilst pretending to talk about another thing. You're very, very good at those. And we'll talk about the kind of the one of those that went viral that kind of kicked off a lot of interest in your work just in terms of You said, what did you say? I'm quoting from your show? You said building an audience that's exclusively mentally ill people, whichich I think was I mean you' were being casual about the term. I don't know if you describe autism as aent mental illness I think most autistic people are mentally It'll be separate, you know what I mean? So so I think it's like yeah, so I would say for I mean, again like this is this is a whole'm I'm so cautious of being a spokespon, I hate when people make sweeping statements about autism and autistic people, but here's one. I think that autistic people are U are put into a society that can make them mentally ill rather than it being in the same way that lots of LGBT people struggle with mental ill health, It doesn't mean that that is a mental illness. It means that society makes you that would be my my sort of sweeping statement about that. That's one of those things that I've just nodded as if I knew that already, but it makes such sense when you say it. but I don't think that's part of a sort of a public discse. I don't think I've before so much as like the moment you say like Oh C Christ, of course Well I well I think it I think it's what's interesting to me is that actually And I did for until before as a full time comedian, I worked for a disability charity and a lot of What you're calling script flips actually comes from there's a writer called Damon Milton had a thing called the double empathy problem. So it's like because the narrative is always Autistic people being the other likeike they're all you're always blamed either way. So in terms of communication, if you If I speak to you and you don't understand me then it's old Joe's bad at communicating, you didn't communicate properly. And if you say something to me and I don't understand you, it's oldld Joe's bad at communicating, he doesn't understand things properly. So it's like either way. so a lot of I guess a lot of the stuff that I T is inspired by those kind of writers and that that sort of movement of autistic writers I And yeah, and that, you know, yeah. That's the social model of disability, I guess is that idea that you when we talk about mental illness and autism, the social model of, you know, we are disabled by society, that would be how what I would see a lot of the sort of crosssover between being mentally ill and being autistic, I wouldly through that lens. Yes Yes. And I think what you're alluding to in the joke is that your audience has a lot of autistic people in it. Yes, yeah, yeah That's always been really important to me because I think There are I never want to do stuff that I'd never want to just please non autistic people, you know, I want to it's like I never wanted yourself as like, oh, I am autistic I said say this thing what an idiot like? And you know, it's always important to me that it's coming from that place of having I was about to say have you seen An nette and then I realized what a comedy you are, youve probably heard of it. But I think the stuff that she was saying in that show about like self deprecation. and I think that You know, I always wanted to do stuff that autistic people would relate to But I want to be mainstream and I want to be mainstream clubs But I think if I didn't have an autistic audience, then I would askk I'd have to ask myself questions about why that is and why the people sort of in my obvious feels a weird to say community because it sounds like we all meet up, but you know, the people like me if people like me weren't connecting with it, obviously some will and some won't But you know, if I wasn't happ if people weren't finding that connection thenen I'd have to ask why that is. And u And so it's important to me that people do connect with it to un aistic Is there any downside to that? Are there any drawbacks from starting to Like I suppose creatively speaking, like you know, obviously I do lots of stuff about climate at the moment, so I attract lots of climate aware people. So there are kind of they are preaching to the choir questions And I wonder if there are also more mechanical issues for you in terms of how a how a majority autistic audience apprehends your comedy or comedy U Yeah, I mean, I get corrected a lot. get a lot of like after gigs people ago I really enjoyed it. was that I made it. I did some stuff about terminals and someone was like, I really enjoy the show but just so you know you said terminal three at Gatwick and Gatwick actually only has north and south terminal. It doesn't have U, but u I Yeah, well, I think one of the things which is been a rewarding challenge was I've been doing the shows as I never say relaxed performance because I don't really know what that means, but like I've been having like accessibility stuff where I've said and you can you can get up and go out and come back in if you want, you don't sit still in your chair. U what other things do I set you? I'd you know, people can um oh there's no audience interaction. That's been a thing which is is u has actually a bit been use of had quite a few people come to shows and say, I'm really glad you said there's no audience interaction because I didn't want to be Yeah. be picked on and So um But that's been like It's been an interesting like challenge of my own like You know, because often I I've had quite a few tour shows where they're be and I'm used to it now, but there where would there be someone in the audience who's sort of fidching around a lot or maybe making noise or something like that And like the first few times it happened, I was thinking like, oh, this is really I like that person's not enjoying it. they're hating it. And then So many times that person would then come up to me afterwards and say I've never been able to go to a comedy show before. I've never like intojoy it. And that's really Nice, but it's a challenge when I think as a comic, you have a perception of how the audiences should behave and u And it's very easy to go. Oh the audienceces are a bad audience because they weren't laughing loud enough or they were they were sort of reacting this way I think it's been useful for me now to sort of let an audience enjoy the comedy however they in the way that they enjoy it. and sometimes that's the way you expect where they laugh really loud and then other times there are people that want to just sit and watch the comedy and that's okay and I think it has helped me to be this has o, you said it's good when I say Wy Wanky things to it makes me this is arrogant than everything else but it sounds like something that Trump was say. It makes me sounds it's made me more humble about, you know, not like the The show isn't for me to feel like a rock star. The show is for the audience who are there you know, it's not just and obviously, we do comedy because it feels really nice when you go and everyone cheers and it's exciting and you know there are certain clubs which are like so exciting, you know, when when you go out and and they're you get big laughs and blah, blah, blah. actually you know, I some of the tour shows that I down where people have where it's been which has been very neuroodiverse and where there's been sort of people getting up and moving about a bit I know that those people have enjoyed it in a way that other that they haven't been able to enjoy other shows and that I've done a really good job sort of doing a show for audience so that actually is A job well done just as much as, you know, when you do comedy store, smash the comedy store and everyone cheers, you know U So that's been a useful thing about having a and then it transfers to clubs as well, you know, where like I think I am less willing to sort of write off gigs that are tough Now, you know, I think it it actually annoys me a bit when you sometimes we'll do a gig and there will be You know, it be a bit quiet or it' be a bit, you know undersold or whatever, and then someone will go out and sort of blame the audience for that. You know, I think I try to approach gigs with I mean maybe lesser now that I've got a child and I'm tired all the time so I'm not giving it a hundred ten percent I've had a few things where you was small. I was like I'm so tired. I just got to get through this twenty minutes. But in theory, you know, I tried to go out to every gig and go Let's perform my comedy as best I can for these people in this room And and that's the yeah, that's been helpful The humble King. Yes. I'm very attracted to the idea of a relaxed performance As a late in life ADHD diagnosis person I don't really consider that relaxed performances are aimed at me. But I hate sitting down and watching an entire show. I would much rather be walking around tapping, clicking my fingers, alth you what I mean? Not necessarily clicking my fingers. and I wouldn't even call it sort of stimming To me that feels like very alien language still, very new to the party. but I certainly hate sitting still and would and I fidget loads. And so I do enj my favorite way to enjoy comedy. this is going to sound awful is at the back of the room or behind the back curtain Doing something, doing a mindless computer game on my phone with my fingers, like a mindless thing, not anything involving strategy or thought. but like a keep myself busy thing whilst listening take in so much more of the show and the nuance and all the rest of it if I'm doing that So I think I that's another thing on my list is people can use their phones during the show. And also just it takes like the awkwardness of because I think in a club if someone was on their phone. I'd be thinking my go they Yeah. Whereas if you've set out the rules and gone and you can go on your phone like and that's fine as long as you're not recording it Um, then u then you don't when you're on stage, you then don't worry about it and the people around them don't worry about it because it's just like, well, this is just happening and it does Yeah, it is it is a more I think that sometimes the thing that's complicated is noise because I think if you've got people who This is conflicting access needs is what's I found it's called If you've got people who would struggle with background noise and then you've got people who are going to make background noise, that's a very hard thing to to manage, but But yeah, things like you know, people using their phones and stuff like that once if there's permission for it Also if there's permission to It may like A lot of people have said to me like about being able to get up and walk out if you want and you're not going to be picked on for that. They've gone. I didn't I didn't need to, but I hate going to a thing and knowing that I have to sit still for an hour hundred percent But if like I've got the option to get up and and go out I then sort of don't need to, but it's, you know, it takes that pressure off. I did that. I'm always worried about how often I may or may not need to go for a wee during the show. And I find that if I've got some if I'm near the end of a row and I did this once in the old in the Bristol Old Vic, there was a nice couple at the end of the row in between me and access potentially to the loooo. I just said to them beforehand Just say you know I think I lied. I think I said, o I'm on some medication or something at the moment. Which is a white lie because when I'm on my ADHD medication, I do need lots of wes But I said, I'm on medication at the moment and I don't think I was And so I might need to nip out for a wee sort of halfway through, and they were like, Ohh totally fine. And then of course I didn't because there was no I feel like this is a very minor version of what we're discussing, but Yeah, ye. ye. Like when you get in the car and you know like when I drive back from Brighton, there's no public toilets that whole time and know it just makes me like think about weeing the whole time I would love I've sort of Participating in this and thinking in the back of my mind, I would love to make all of my performances relaxed performances, but I am also very easily distractable. So I do want people to feel like they can be on their phones as long as their phones are silent But I've got twenty years worth of ingrained threat response to seeing someone be on their phone. And also I struggle more and more now to remember the next bit of my set Do you I mean? So And I think it is so easily distracted I'm very privileged that I think the people who come to see me are I think it's harder to infot like If you've got an audience who go out and I don't think this this probably isn't your audience either. but like if you've got quite like a rowdy drunk audience anyway, is then harder to make that you've then got that issue in there as well, which I don't have because my audience tend to be sort of really nice and I'm very lucky for that and yeah, it's not going to work. I think everyone's sort of got to do what works for them and And yeah, I think that's what I like about comedy is there's so many different it's like the audience interaction. someome people want and I love audience interaction could be brillant see you know someone like Ross Noobble or something like that is amazing I've never been great at audience interactions so I just decided not to do it and advertise it as not doing it. But that's not that I'm It's that very polarised times thatre where its I feel like people are going to think I'm against audience interaction. But you know I think it can be brilliant and I like it. I do it sometimes in clubs or often comparing. But it's yeah, it's good to have that choice for people. Have you done the RGB mononster gigs at Edinburgh? I think it's called something like I think I've mentioned this on the pod before. It's something like five headliners for a tenor And they've created this incredibly lean sign up on a Google form, pass the mic, no MC. L it's a money making and creativity employing and flying opportunity machine, right? So it it's very, very lean One of the rules is no audience interaction. And I was backstage beforehand, having been told that and forgotten and turned up and they said, Oh, no audience interaction or you don't get booked again. I was like, Allright, mate. And it was brilliant because the very first thing the person whoever's on first who then becomes the default audience welcomer literally walks out and says, just so you know, this is a no crowd workork show, no audience interaction. We're not going to talk to you. You don't talk to us. Let's get stuck in and then just does their set. And yeah. it was so fun They were so well behaved. There was zero I mean, maybe I' got a lucky night, but they were There was just zero pressure or expectation. It's almost like the room breathes a sigh of relief, and suddenly you're in a there gig. Hm Yeah, yeah. I think it's, you know, And I hate I hate being on the other end of audience interaction. I went to a wedding a few years ago and there's a band there And I sort of walked past the vand like so it looked like I was walking out And then the singer like says to me, Oh, don't go. We do name a song, name a song and we're singer. And in that moment I just I forgot all of music at all. I couldn't think of a single birthday.. It can be like yeah, it can be sort of like feeleing put on the spot can be really horrible But also it can be brilliant and fun and you know and it can be fun to do with people that want it I often find at small festivals, if I'm in someone's audience and they know me I'm like my presence in someone's audience doesn't mean I want to join in And I often feel like people go, o, gooldsmiths in or something because it's a bit of an in joke. And I just crumple. I'm like, I was just I'll only have a hide at the back ever again. I. I here to join in So this is Joe Wells. His book with Abigaliayah Shaman, Neuroivergent Moments is out today everywhere. You can get books and Joe Wells Daddy autism. his tour show is on tour later this year. Find out everything you need to about that from joe Wells. org. Uk. We talk a little bit about the book here and the structure of the book, and I've been lucky to see I will say one of the best bits about this self created job is getting to see and read books and PDF's of books before they come out. It's a fascinating insight into how it all works and it lets me feel very special. and it's a very special book, so I hope you check it out. I've read a bunch of chapters from it, I've skipped about it, it's playfully and both authors contribute loads in a really different way think that is really fun thing I'm before I tell you any more about me, let me tell you about brilliant friendriends of the podcast, former guests, American comics currently in the UK. Amy Miller and Joelle Nicole Johnson. Now they're both fantastic in very, very different ways. I hope you've heard their episodes. Joelle has a wonderful my Godd, the story she told on the pod about kind of finding her voice and finding herself at the same time was wonderful. Amy Miller has this brilliant dry sense of humour and she's so scathing on social media. She's so good at replying to awful reply guys Both of their stand up in two very, very different ways is excellent and unmissable. And they're both in the UK, as well as doing bits and bobs of shows. You should follow them if you're a promoter, get in touch with them because I was in cahoots previously with Joelle about like whether I could help shout her out and get her booked in a few more places because she's not well known over here, killer headliner and then Amy Miller pops up and says she's coming out as well. So she's coming over, let's say. So please do get in touch with them. If you're a promoter, if you book anything, if you have any hook upps to fun gigs that need more excellent, interesting lineups with excellent, interesting American women, then you can catch up with both of them. Amy Miller comomedy on Instagram And the website is Amy Millercomedy. com and Jolle is Joelle Nicole on Instagram and her website is on her link tree, which I'm finding now. I mean, you can also find her link tree and it's doesn't appear to have a website. She just has an Instagram and a link tree. It's so lean. But if you find her on Instagram, you can see clips of her on the Tonight Show, comomedy Central, Late Night with Seth Myers And so on. So Joelle Nicole Johnson, Amy Miller, both incredible American heavyweight comics in the UK right now. so please hook them up and I'm sure you can also find out where they're going to be in the UK as well Talking of seeing people, Canary is coming to a place near you and if it's not near you, get three hundred friends together and I'll come and bring it to a place near you. It's going to be at the Edinburgh Festival Cabaret Volaire at two hundred twenty five from the seventeenth to the thirteth of August, that's the last two weeks under the monkey barrel, And then it is going to be in Cambridge, Glasgow, Oxford, Manester, Cardiff Maidenhead Sheffield in Birmham throughout autumn, culminating in the biggest headline show of my goddamn career, Bristol Oldvick on the eighteenth of November. It's called Canary. It's all about The first show the first cllimate show spoilers was about kind of facing up to the fear of the climate crisis and how is anyone supposed to cope with that? And this is in some ways more of the same. It's more nuanced, it has more to say, it's more meaningful and I really interrogate the question of whether our guilt and our culpability and our individual actions, whether Our attempts to do something about it are really as valuable as we hope they are. It finishes with the one single biggest thing anyone can do. If you're worried about the climate, it's an easy it's a relatively easy thing to do And I did a preview in Swinden. I was very proud recently to be the very first person on stage ever at the inaugural Swinden Old Town Comedy Festival. Thank you Sam John Michael And it was an absolute banger where all the bits are now in the right place and all I need to do is And I always think of Hannibal Burris talking about this with I think with SNL orr was it he was writing on thirty Rck? I clearly don't always remember it. But you put the jokes on an OHP, put them on a wall, and sit around beating the jokes. I don't have a writer's room But M maybe old write the jokes and crayown on the wall it's so close and I think when it's finished, it's going to be magnificent. So I hope you'll come and join me on tour Stuartgoldsmith. com slash comedy. To find out more about it, you can also sign up for the Ccom pod mailing list there as well Coming up in the second half, we will discuss why Joe wrote a book about OCD at fifteen, which I discovered about ten minutes before interviewing him. So there's a real interesting line of inquiry there. We'll talk about how focusing on personal experiences stops your material getting dated. We'll discuss briefly the problem with saying we're all on the spectrum. We'll talk about how Joe's viral clips didn't change his approach to making stuff And we'll find out whether or not the bastards happy. Let's get back to Joe Wells Are you the same Joe Wells that wrote a book about OCD called Touch and. Yeah, that's me. Yeah You're a teenager Yeah, it was fifteen when I roe sixteen when it came out. Yeah Tell me all about that. I realize this is on the first page of the PDF you sent me. It's like, you know also by. And I was really I read a little bit of a couple of chapters of the book. But let's just talk about that. I suddenly because I think I think when I saw that you and Abigalayah Shaman had written the book of your podcast or a book related to your neurodivergent moments podcast, I thought, o wow, they've got a book away. Great. I didn't have you pegged as someone who already had a career in publishing So or a career Yeah, you know, is an all my third book Yeah. and yeah, so I But I had very severe OCD as a teenager And this was in a time thirty seven now. so this was a time where people weren't There wasn't much written about OCD and a lot of people didn't know what it was and yes, I wrote a book about that when I sort of u was getting better from it with the help of a lot of therapy U Yeah, so that that sort of gave me a sort of u There were fun opportunities that came from that and I was doing talks to sort of cams groups and schools and things like that before I was doing stand upp U Yeah, to that. That is quite an interesting notot that I'm suggesting that is your comedy origin story, but that is quite unusual to be giving talks about a subject then becoming a stand up about something else and then returning to elements of that subject perhaps. Yeah. I think there was an element when I didn't talk about it at allol when I started doing stand up because I think there was an element of wanting to Again, I was that thing of like misconception. So I think if I did stuff about I knew that if I did have about OCD u that I wanted it to be like represented properly And I think it's harder to particularly I was quite aware of, you know, when I was a new comic I I was Yeah, I was aware that I maybe didn't have the sort of skills yet to sort properly talk about the OCD U And u but weirdly felt fine solving all the world's political problems. But Yeah, like so yeah, I didn't I didn't talk about it much in the early stand upp just because I didn't It's quite easy to stereotype OCD and certainly the time I think everyone thought it meant being clean. Mosity was sort of more unusual than that So um Yes, that's yeah, I was sort of giving talks that were a bit more nuanced. There'd be some I think there's some funny things in in the book, you know, it was sort of there were light hearted elements. of the book, I tried to make it quite readable Um You tried age fifteen to make it quite readable. This is quite a precocious thing to have done. L what were the circumstances What's the alternative that I write some really hyper academic sector fif dat? No, no, no I to make it readable. No that's not quite what I meant. I just think that like what were the circumstances around you getting the opportunity to write a book where you just kind of like you know, an ambitious or Yeah know I mean, were you so naive? you thought, hey, I could do this and then suddenly it turned out you could Yeah. I think I think I was not I struggled to make friends at school and I learnnt if so I wrote littleittle like fununny essays and things and would be allowed to read them at the end of class. Um and u And then I sort of yeah, so like And that sort of gave me some level of sort of social status I guess that's the comedy origin story is that, you know, I was wring yeah, writing sort of funny essays and things. So I knew I liked writing And u And that yeah, that was a sort of way to communicate U when I wasn't that good at socializing, And yeah, I like I mean, I have to thank my mum really because she I wrote a few chapters and she sent them off to a publisher. And I think was Alama, right place, right time, you know, where there wasn't written of the idea of lived experience was so new then. and the publishers had That was a book U called Freak Sks Asperger Sndrome by Luke Jackson. and then there was a book called Caged in Chaos about Dyspraxia I Yeah, there there weren't the sort of hundredundreds of lived experperience books that there are Now U And certainly they weren't As far as I'm aware, mine would be the first one about OCD. so like it was Yeah, I just sort of got in when that was that was the thing that was happening you talked about your relationship with your OCD being sort of treated with therapy Is OCD not a new what like what's the kind of taxonomy of it? Is OCD a Is it a neuro divergence So I think this is like a very evolving language so that Neurodivergence that is one of those words where it has been coined by a person And I always forget how to pronounce their name Cassiana Asusamu, I think is their name and It's do with 's sort, I guess it sits alongside the social model of disabilities. it's the idea is it's people who have a brain which society isn't built for. I think that's quite hard thing for people to get their heads around because it's not we're so used to talking about these thingss in medical terms of you have this or you don't have this Whereas I think N divergence is reframing it of like, It depends on the society and you could build a society where Certain types of neurodivergence weren't neurodivergent because society was built for on worked. for them U So I I would see OCD as a as a neurodivergence because it's your brain working in an unusual and unexpected way, but I would also see it as a mental illness whereereas I wouldn't see the way in which I am autistic as being a mental illness. Um Yeah, I think I think it' I guess that would be how I'd view it. but also I'd put the caveat that I think you know, I'm not I'm not an academic or someone someone who, you know, I've read some books but I'm not someone who is an expert in mental health or autism or any of this. And also I think it's such an evolving conversation. I think when you read things Someone like Temple Grandin, who I think was very radical for her time, which was not that long ago and she's still alive today. When you read her books now, they seem incredibly dated and cringy U but were quite sort of groundbreaking for the time. So and I think everything I'm saying now will be dated in twenty years But that would be how I yeah, that's how I would view OCD in terms of neurodivergence, I would say it was a it was neurodivergence, but also A mental illness I think a lot of the language about neurodivergence has come from the Autism rightights movement. And u You know, it's then it's sort of these other And it's been made broad enough to include other people, but then other people have come along and gone, oh this' this language doesn't quite work for us, so I think it's I think it will all It will all change very differently. I think that's why I try to a lot of the language aroundurodivergence, I guess is born out of like the autism rightights movement and then other people have come along and gone, o maybe we can use some of this language masking or whatever but there may be some of it doesn't quite work for us And So I think it's going to evolve and that's why I try to U I am particular about language but also want And one of the motivations behind we've got coming out is I want to focus on my own experiences and the way I feel about things. U And when I'm making u sort of bold statements, I want to make sure there are things that are one hundred percent stand behind because I think the language and it's all going to move around and change in the future And I think if I write stuff that's really rooted in the experiences that I'm having then that date in the same way that if I wrote a sort of you know if I wrote a show that was like This is what autism is and this is, you know how we should categorize people and this is how U you know, these are the things that helps and these are the specific things which which we should change and the way we should talk about things very specifically I think that would date very quickly, whereas I think if I write stories about my life and how I felt about them and how they changed my thinking about myself and the people around me thenen that will always be true That's my thinking anyway There was an interesting conversation around I work on a kid show U Pablo and Pablo is autistic and u There was an interesting conversation about sort of It's not, I don't think as far as I'm aware, it's not said in the show that he is autistic and like there was conversation, but in all he is and all the marketing would be around that U and I guess like My my thinking in the conversation that we had about that was that The language couldn't The language could move on so much I And and, you know and and T ten, fifteen years ago, we would have been talking about asperges or whatever. But if we just focus on the experiences and and those stories, then it's not in the same way No I mean that that makes perfect sense. I'm just there's there's a space for saying stuff that will date and you know and having conversations and having opinions which are going to be moved on from. so that's also fine as well. People can do what they want. I' just I'm just thinking of kind of characters in sitcoms like Rrbed in community or don't remember his name, but that one in Third Rock fromrom the Sun a long way away you know, where you kind of think um Oh, they were these are kind of autistic representations but that don't say so. So they aren't tied to having to do any spokespersoning. Yeah. and they were a lot better than Yeah yeah Yeah, those things age a lot better than say, you know, the curious incident or something like that or like explicit or the good doctor or something where they're like explicitly autistic characters The structure of your book is quite unusual in that I think is quite unusual in that it's you and Abigaliah writing the book together and you take a subject and then each write a chapter about it Yes. I think in the prologue I say to give the illusion of structure,. I miss that bit. But it's very, very readable. I said it made it sort of just from the index, you sort of go, oh, I can dip into any of these bits and I did dip into a few of them to do with work and jobs that you'd had and parenting and things like this. What's the what's the aim of the book?'s what's the kind of best case dream result of it being published It's coming out soon.'s out yet is that right? eighteenth of June it coming out. eighteenth of June. So the and it's it's on like I think called Net Galley. So for people who are bloggers and librarians can get hold of advanced copies And what's been lovely the two words which have come up a lot in the Good Reads reviews, which have made us so happy is funny and relatable and those are the two things. we wanted to write something that was primarily neur aversion audience and would be relatable stories and also to be funny And Every time I saw one of those two words, I was very happy about that. There's no sort of Uh Even though I'm interested in all the sort of theory around autism, there's no big sort of sociological argument or thesis to it really. I other than just I like I believe in the idea of certain neur diversion Sh and that this can be these stories are part of it and we can share these stories and that that's worth doing in and of itself because they're funny and relatable That was a very good answer. That was very I was wrongfooted there by how deftly you ended the sentence. Oh good then Is there anything that you It' like in the process of editing the book Were there other directions in which it could have gone Or were there material that you cut and why did you cut it I think Funny was always the sort of primary thing, you know I think that when we did the podcast, we were aware that there's lots of podcasts about Neurodiversity that are very earnest and inspiring And u So to write something that's just funny was our or, you know, that was primarily that funny is the number one thing to go to U Im trying to think there's things that were I mean, it was most of the editing was that was the sort of comedy editing you do where you go You know, when you get into like, is it funny to say the or An, you know, in this sentence and when we would meet up and read the essays to each other And you know, they go back and forward on like Yeah, just little bits of wording So that was most of the editing. I think that the sort of knowing what the stories were going to be. So for we've each written twelve I guess it's the twelve neurodivergic moments. there's a sort of twelve twelve stories. Yeah, most of the editing was we make this funnier or sharper. Occasionally there was bits where we would go. How can I put this across more clearly. there's a bit a chapter about really struggling with so my grandmother died and then I had to go to like birthday meal and just really being anxious about how the conversations that I'd have there because Do I tell people? if I tell people they go, o, I'm so sorry. and then there's like this weird social thing where I never quite know what to do when people say, I'm sorry because it sounds like they've killed them. And it's sort of and the sort of the end conclusion was may U rehearsing it with my wife on the way to the meal so we sort of rehearse me being me and her being One of our friends very sad about my grandmother, who I love very much dying but that That's like just a feeling you feel and but then the The thing that has to be worked out is the script of talking about it U and it's not that That is more upsetting. The most upsetting thing is my Nandai but the thing that's tricky and that has to be worked out and it is sort of like stressful because it's the thing you got to work out is the sort of u scripting of how to respond to how people respond to that. So things like that were where we wanted to get the experience right and to explain explain exactly how It felt. I' I didn't want that chapter to read like, oh, I didn't care about my nan. I just cared about the Ale conversation. You know I wanted to make it clear Wh I' coming from with that. but Yeah. so I guess the editing was making it funny and occasionally making sure the sort of experience authentically came across and wasn't All the stuff we' talking about earlier, you know where people can misinterpret and misunderstand things U You know I didn't want him to go away from that chapter thinking oh, it's really funny because he didn't care about his nandying and he just cared about the awful conversation, you know, when that's not the point of it. U Yeah, that was the editing we did, but there weren't big things we sort of left out Oh there was one I wanted to write a chapter but then it has something else for the food thing about this restaurant I used to love because it was really quiet because it was shit and I'd always wanted to go to this restaurant. It was called Mzzarella Joe's and there would never be anyone there. And u But it was so quiet and and I used to love going with if we had friends I'd be like, we should go to Mzzarella. I tell you what is actually really underrated, mozzarella Joees because it would just be very quiet and peaceful. But I think that was all I had to that story was I' just like to go to this shit restaurant Before we wrap up Let's talk a little bit. Oh, there's two further things that I want to talk to you about. One is to do with language. I'm sure I read a really good exploration an exploding and an explosion of of why it's annoying when people say, yes, well we're all on the spectrum. That's why it's a spectrum. And it was a really good rebuttal of that. like, no, that isn't how this spectrum works And I wondered if you either knew that bit of writing or had a similar I would like to be able to use that in conversation. I couldn't remember it Well, I think a lot a lot of things are I think a lot of autistness is normal experience turned up You know? And so I do understand the motivation behind people saying it. I've had quite a few people say it to me who I know and I've gone in my head of gone, you're not a bit. on the spectrum, you're very much, but you don't know. We all practice our faces in the mirror, don't we for how we meet people and U I think a lot yeah, I think a lot of things Okay, so here's a conversation that maybe people aren't ready for. I think that like sexuality is on the spectrum, you know, I don't think anyone is truly purely heterosexual, right there are Ultimately like I think peopleeople go Oh, this is the this is the term that works for me, you know? and So to say just because sexuality is on a spectrum doesn't mean that gay people don't exist as a distinct category of people that have experiences and that you have experienced prejudice and blah, blah, blah. And I guess similarly, I think Yeah, there are lots of things where people can you know, there are people who communicate in different ways, peopleople who find noise overwhelming, people that have focus, special interests, et cetera But then there are I think there's a difference between going we're allle in spectrum in a dismissive way of like, oh well it just means nothing then and then going well There's a fuzzy line between autistic and non autistic. You know I talk about this person a lot they contacted me at because I did a gig once and someone said they were told they were two thirds autistic. They went for a diagnosis and they said, there's like three things you got to tick off and two of the three they had U so I think like that, like you know, who there are people who are put in this weird gray area and I guess that's why I like neurodivergence as a term because it's not it's not as sort of clinical and it's not It can account for, you know, that person who's two thirds autistic or you know, has been told they're two thirds autistic can make out it for that. So yeah. So I think it I understand why people say overall a bit autistic and because these are human traits But I think it can often be said in a dismissive way Len M Yes, it's a bit like that thing about like you're he is a tourist, you are a holiday maker but I am a traveler. It's a bit like are you are on the spectrum as we all are or like he is on the spectrum as we all are. you have special interests, but I am autistic. It's likeistic kind of category. I think a lot of identities exist on sours you know, like ever, you know, if people have done DNA tests and find, you know, find out that they're they're sort of one percent of certain ethnicity or whatever, like, you know, that like Lots of identities are on a spectrum But that doesn't mean that the people who sit within this category or who sort of identify this category don't exist as a group of people U Do you find I was thinking of other autistic comedians? And then I started thinking about other comedians who I think might be autistic and who either don't know or who do know but don't mention it And I just wondered whether there was, I'm sure I was reading a thing in the Guardian where Stuart Lee had talked about getting a sort of like an unofficial or like a GP's kind of autism diagnosis or maybe a self assessment diagnosis And I think from it was difficult talking about a third party from a half remembered article, but I feel like he'd said and You know, obviously this makes a lot of sense, but I don't have time, you know, I don't I'm not particularly invested in it and I just wondered whether you noticed in advance or whether there was ever a situation where Someone made a joke about autistic people say And you as an autistic person with a probably quite a broad knowledge or quite an in depth knowledge of The criteria were able to go, o, you don't know yet Like does that crop up Oh yeah, the it's interest like okay, I won't know them, but they there was someone who I've met a few times and one hundred percent. but I think doesn't fit a stereotype Um so um says like I mean, most obviously it's a black comic and And it just doesn't sort of You know, peopleople don't question my diagnosis because I'm like a nerdy. white man, you know, I've got boglins on my desk, you know And but I think there's not a figure of speech. No this is I've got I've got a monstersta in my pocket here and then I've got some Lego and stuff But so people go, oh yeah, that makes sense as autism. And but yeah, there there's a One Yeahah, one com in particular who like I see things like, o that's how my brain works as well, but they present in a very different way. cooler than I but I saw I did like trying not to identify them, but I saw them doing some stuff online about Noise And u And yeah, I thought, oh yeah, that like That makes sense al but my sort of people talk about ADar Yeah ye like I I was like, oh, okay, yeah, that that that's um That makes sense to me. yeah It's presumably like a sort of first contact in Star Trek where the other alien races are going, well until they discover faster than light transport, we won't get in touch That' something that so many people do that assume that I know about sci fi. I know I don't think I made that assumption. I think That's fine. I What the thing was? I got an email from our publisher saying, Ohh, we've got this new book out. It's sort of it's about autism and video games. and I know you're a big video gamer And d back could go no it' again. I seem to have that vibe and I don't mind. I will defend a potentially ostensible prejudice there in that I refer to this aspect of Star Trek a lot to a lot of people But I feel the explanation did describe it without it I'm sorry about that I know of course them. The other alien races in the Star Trek universe and They watch like for example, humanity and they wait until you've discovered faster than light transport and then they go now let's make ourselves aware Oh I sa the of the movie first contact. Right. Okay. But I wonder if there is I had an experience where me and Pete Dobbin were in Austin. And we saw someone we saw a very talented, very skilled magician do their first ever street show really badly And like first contact street performers, we went over and said, wouldould you like access to all of the knowledge about how to make a street show work? Like we descended like you've done the thing now. you tried once. That means you're in the gang and you've earned knowing all of the stuff about how it worked. Oh I see. I wonder if there is a thing whereby almost like an uncontacted tribe. you see a person, your Adar pings and you think, well, is there an appropriate moment to say that if they ever have any questions, you'd be happy to field them Or do you see what I mean? Like You might might I wish I know said to me eight, ADHD twenty years ago and I could have looked into it then And I've long addited that there should be a thing that people can say, a socially acceptable code word that we can say that means Hello, nice to meet you. If you happen to recognize in me anything you think I don't know about, I don't mind at all if you point it out You could just say that Do You you what mean? Yeah. I think certainly saying like me referring to people is like me is a useful way to put it, isn't it? Becauseuse they can't be offended by they can't be openly offended by that Yeah, I haven't. We have there's few people with the podcast who Abergalaize contacted and they've got back and gone, No, I'm not ADHD and then we've sort of gone all right, we'll give it a year or two. We're wa waiting for that to. That's actually that might haveite that question perly. What I do is I simply invite them on the podcast. Yeah that's enough Um, Y to finish up then to wrap up your very famous, very viral routine that you did a video of you did you released a video taken of top secret of you talking about your non autistic brother, which was a script flip of like, I'm describing him in the language that people would talk about an autistic person, but everything's reversed It went't very, very viral and I mean part of me wanted to ask kind of When you go viral, I remember when one of my clips went viral for like crazy viral for the first time and I was like, oh, all of theava, I haven't been putting much work into socials. How do I quickly maximize this Were there things that you did or things that you regretted not doing that that, you know, are the things that you were like, o, this is like my first one it it went It was an Instagram clip from my account which at the time was called AcOom compompod. That's now a separate distinct account But I thought, oh, it's not clear to the viewer who the comedian what the name is of the comedian. Yeah, things like that Were were there things like that that happen when that first you had a first experience of something really popping off Prob probably. U But also I try not to get too sort of swept up in algorithms and you know how to gain social media because I think it can drive people mad and I think it can stop people making stuff that is good and I think that I always want like I always want the thing that motivates me to be making stuff that's And I know that sounds really obvious. Like all the people who I like, whether it's musicians or comedians or writers or whatever, I like them because they make stuff that's good And and maybe it's naive of me, but I sort of want to You know, I open put myself up on social media and, you know, I'm not I'm not disengaged from that. But I think that your main motivation has to be trying to make stuff that's good rather than trying to you know, do social media Right. And I think that's how peopleeople will keep coming back to what you do is if you make comedy that's good and funny and interesting U you know, whether or not I was doing that is not for me to say, butertain that's what I was well I was trying to do. So I think that's what my motivation is is how can I be really funny? How can I put across some interesting ideas? I think the other dimension to it for you is that as you said on stage peopleeople come up to you and say Oh, my therapist showed me that video of you, which must be enormously gratifying. Yeah, yeah, it's been nice that it's been sort of there's a few clip. There's another one about my wife singing as well which has been apparently. someone said it went viral on all the psychologists and therapists like you know, like work groups for people that it's act therapy as so a lot of the group that went aroundound on that, which is nice U yeah, like Yes, it did do that as well Social media for good, Joe. This is wonderful. benevolent virality. Yeah. I think that's great. So The book is out on the eighteenth of June. And you're on tour. The second leg of your daddy autistic tour is when. Daddy Autism. Yeah. indy Aut in the autumn, so I think there's one in September, but main in October, November Fantastic. Joe Are you happy I am very happy yeah. A I wish I had a more nuanced answer. But things I think this is a thing we and I hope you do it too and that everyone who's a professional comadian listens to this does just like reminding yourself that you are absolutely living in the dream. know that you're making a living from comedy and whether or not you're on you know, that big TV show you want to get or you're with that agent you want to be with or whether you're with you know, whatever the in with that club if you're making a living from comedy is like such a privilege place to be and I think we've got to remember that. So Joe's book with Abigalayah Shaman, it's neuro divergent moments. it's out now and his tour is Joe Wellell's Daddy Autism on tour later this year JoeWells. org. Uk. If you enjoyed this episode, get your hands on the exclusive extras we talk about the Dark Rom. We talk about taking extra beats to make reveals land harder, some good technical stuff there. We'll talk about flipping the script for neuroivergent audiences and how this is fascinating, how being deliberately unfunny can be a secret power move in a club patreon dot com slash comcom pod to get your hands on that And you can find out how to see me live at Stuart gooldsmith dot com slash comedy com and Fill your boots with my canary. Also, you should fill your boots with the work of Jooyellll Nicole Johnson and Amy Miller by finding them on Instagram or wherever you can find them Thank you to Callum. Thankk you to Susie, thanks to Rob Smartton who did the music. Our insider producers were, of course, Luke Hacker, Rogerpiller, Icave Dave, Daniel Powell Keith Simmon, Sam Allan, Jay Lucas, Gary Mclellan Chris Wbrick, D, Mcarroll Pul Swadle Alex Wmall and James Bury. They get their names read out at the end of every episode because they are insider producers, which means they're paying over the odds for their Patreon subscription very pleased about it And I hope that this doesn't remind them that they are and make them go o, I've left that on for ten years And a very big thank you of course, to our two special insider executive producers. Neil, what did Neil do recently? Neil has become an actual silversmith. Am I allowed to reveal that? I saw it on social media. I think Neil makes jewelry now. It looks so great. Neil Silversmith Peters and Andrew Super gooldsmith Denant and to the super secret one as well. No no postamble today gang, I'm afraid. it's eleven o five on a Monday morning and I've got some jokes to beat. so I'm going to go and do that But um I tell you very, very quickly that the boy did another stand up gig and someone referred to it the socials as the artist formerallyly knowed as Botros, which I like, but he'll still hate that. He doesn't want to be bootros anymore and he doesn't like me saying that The artist formerly known as Boutros Taf Cab, I think is we all know who we're talking about. He did some stand up at his school at a school PTA comedy night that I do and he did He'd written it that day like an hour before he sort of jumped out the bath and said, I'm going come do the gig, right? and I'm like, I thought you didn't want to do Um, he, um, He did observational material about the fact that the school house names have changed recently and he took the piss out of them. He's ten now by the way. Heartbreaking if if you've just jumped into this episode from being from listening to episodes one hundred and twenty and then suddenly jumping to this one, ten years old And he did observational stuff about the discipline, the school, the system they have of you know, the punishments that you get. He only did like two a half minutes It' some little laughs and then two massive laughs where I was like, Ohh my Godd, he's leveled up. He's doing observations. I so proud. Anyway, busy things to get done now so more on that later another time U what else No, nothing else. I'm excited, man. I'm in the right I'm in the pocket for Edinburgh. I am right in the pocket. It's all it's like The show is already excellent and from this point on full belief in it I know exactly what I want to say and how I'm saying it and Oh, a really interesting thing happened last Friday at four thirty PM which I can't share with you until it's resolved, but what it is Tell me to resolve the thing because bit of a bit of a revelation about something I got a potential offer for a thing And it made me feel a certain way And that is of interest, and we will return to this when there is more time